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When Guilty Suspects Get Tricked Into Confession · The conspiracy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Criminals have one objective when sat in the interrogation room,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: do not confess. But sometimes the detectives are so skilled
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: that they are able to trick the suspect into giving
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: everything up and confessing on the spot.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: It was liable to a point. I'm thinking about death.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Starting with the one in a million interrogation of Kelsey McCrimmon.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On the twenty sixth of July twenty seventeen, two bodies
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: were found in a car in Virginia. The bodies belonged
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to Gregory Davis and Ryan Cross, and as the investigation began,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: police were immediately starved for suspects. There was very little
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: evidence and the cops couldn't link the deaths to any
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: wider incidents. However, Kelsey had been arrested less than a
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: month earlier for robbing a man at gunpoint for his
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: cell phone. He was well known to the police, so
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: when they found his prints at the scene of the crime,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: they knew they had to bring him in.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Where were you Wednesday twenty six.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Double homstid Oh? I did know.
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: I saw at that on Twitter. I was at Coles house.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Matter of fact, I was at his house.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: All night, all night.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: He never left no, see, you got it. You spend
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: the night over there?
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you guys ever go out and.
• 1:12
  Speaker 6: Hanging out with the environ anything like that? And what
• 1:15
  Speaker 6: time did you leave this house? Probably like six six am?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Or like maybe like four, maybe four or five or six.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Kelsey gives a very common alibi here, saying he was
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: at his friend's house all night and he never left.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Criminals give this alibi a lot, as it places them
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: away from the crime and also allows their friends to
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: cover up for them. If Cole tells the cops Kelsey
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: was indeed there all night, then that problem is solved
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and he couldn't possibly have been the murderer. But of
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: course it's never that simple.
• 1:44
  Speaker 7: Do you walk by the police?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I walked straight down with Holt Were you with Amy Butt?
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: So? On?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Home?
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: So you were at Cole's till about four or five?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: What time did you get to goals? Mmmm?
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: We hooped earlier that day, So I was with him
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: probably like around I don't know exactly the time, but
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: I was. Well, you're saying, basically.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: She walked here?
• 2:04
  Speaker 7: Did you take fun?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: He walked? So you walked there? Where's your girl?
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Lit it?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: The first part of the interrogation is often the most important.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: It gives the suspect a chance to explain their side
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: of the story, but it also gives the detective a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: chance to trap them in a lie. As you may
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: be able to tell, the detective is bombarding Kelsey with
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: questions and barely giving him a chance to think in
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: between each of them. This is done in hopes that
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: if Kelsey is guilty, he'll make a mistake somewhere in
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: his story that the detective can exploit later. The detective
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: continues this for another five minutes before deciding to talk
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: about the murders.
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: When did you hear about the murder?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I heard about it on the news the next morning.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: My dad had called me because when I went back
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: home I went to sleep.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: My dad called him when I ate something was out
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: that you hear about that? I was like, nah, I'm saying,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: did you see who got you?
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: They didn't.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: They didn't single names in their faces or much.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: She find out who got killed.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: All I know is that one of them was nineteen
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: and twenty. I've seen how the news.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Did you know they're victims? Never seen him before in
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: life or anything like that.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I still don't know who it is.
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: Ryan Cross you know their name? How about Greg Dennz
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: I don't know it. So what's the word down the street?
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Willeaden? I look so much yourself on what he saw
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the news? That's it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Notice how as soon as the names are mentioned and
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: he's asked whether he knows them, Kelsey's posture becomes much
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: more closed off. He tightens up and starts to move
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: his hands around a whole lot more than he was before.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Something is off, and the detectives pick up on this instantly.
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: So obviously the reason why we're talking to you to
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: these kids, we want to find that information. We want
• 3:46
  Speaker 6: to to see if you're telling the truth. So this
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: is your opportunity to tell the truth. Detective got and
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: kind of where to talk to you.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: You know, there's pieces of puzzles and when you look
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: get them.
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: Our job sold is together evidence to talk to people
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: and put it all together.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: And right now you're not telling the.
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: Truth about what about where you were that night? What
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: you're getting as partial the truth. But there's also text
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: messages between you and.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Jack, me and Jacob, Yeah, talking about what.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: You weren't there. If he's texting you remember saying you
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I'm in the cut and what's just one about it?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That's when I was walking home.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Why would you huge in the cut?
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, I'm walking through the cut,
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: it just cuts I take to get home.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Kelsey nuts his head here to reassure himself that what
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: he's saying is truthful and believable. But all this does
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: is confirm to the police how nervous he really is.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's texting. You're texting back and forth. He's
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: trying to call you rat the murder.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: He's trying to call me. He doesn't he doesn't have
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: the phone numbers, so I cain't call.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: He's texting though, right, FaceTime and texting.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: That's when I get home. He texted me face timing.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: But he didn't say anything.
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: About You know, we're talking for a recent right, I mean,
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: you're not here talking about chance, yeah, I mean you're
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: talking about Let's talk.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: About the bag that's found the back of the cup.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: It's got your prints on it, it's got your dnnat
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: the bragg and the bag m I mean, let's talk
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: about why would have that? Why would have your dname?
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: What bad?
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: There's a bag found in the back black and.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Backpack, all right, If Kelsey had a good way to
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: refute this evidence, you'd have to imagine that he'd be
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: rushing to tell the cops about it. Instead, he says,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I'm listening, a sign that he's got nothing and is
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: actively searching for an excuse in what the cops SAIDs.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I mean I had I mean I have his bag sometimes.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: So did you have his bag that night?
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: No?
• 5:34
  Speaker 6: Why would he say he gave it to you for what?
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: I don't know, That's what I'm asking.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know why he would give me his bag.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Who was hooping that day?
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: I probably could have had his bag and put my
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: stuff in it, but that was about it.
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: I didn't have it after that.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: So what happened then?
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: Now?
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Do something go wrong? Let's say you're seem like a
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: good guy, make mistakes, but we need you all happened
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: that night?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I don't, I honestly don't know.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: You weren't sleeping there.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: That whole time? No, we wasn't sleep the whole time.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I ain't going to sleep till partly, like twelve or something,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: twelve one.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: So you don't know, Ryn Cross, No, do you know?
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: Greg Dennis?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't you know what I'm saying,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: you're saying those names, and I'm.
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: Asking if you know No, No, I don't know if
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: you everybody around them hung out with them.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I mean you saying, are the names you're saying? I don't.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know anybody about that name. If you could
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: show me a picture or anything.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Have you watched the news you know they are.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: No, they didn't show they didn't show pictures. That's what
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. I've never seen them show any pictures or nothing.
• 6:25
  Speaker 6: Have you ever been in their car or anything? Is
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: there any reason why your prince would be on that cover?
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: It depends on who you're talking about.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Kelsey's body language is consistently extremely telling throughout this whole interrogation.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Before that last question, he was speaking pretty confidently, but
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: when the detective asks if he's ever been in the car,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: it's like he's been stunned, and he quietly mutters no.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: It's almost as if he knows exactly what question is
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: coming next, But he definitely wasn't prepared for the cops
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: next remark.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: You know you had your cell phone right on my
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: cell phone, it's white track your home movement that night.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: It's going to put you in the area in the murder.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I mean should.
• 7:07
  Speaker 7: That's a that's an answer. You're saying that it shouldn't.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: What if it does?
• 7:11
  Speaker 8: Scenario big won because because I'm gonna just tell you,
• 7:14
  Speaker 8: like I said, I've done this a little bit, and
• 7:16
  Speaker 8: I've tried to be a judge of the character.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: All right, do you understand that I told you I was.
• 7:22
  Speaker 8: I was a robbery detective for seven eight years by
• 7:26
  Speaker 8: mohamicide detective. Now spent my whole career looking people in
• 7:29
  Speaker 8: the eyes and going that dude, he's straight, he just
• 7:32
  Speaker 8: in bast situation, or I do he's fucking whack. You
• 7:35
  Speaker 8: need to be putting jail because his fucking maniac you.
• 7:38
  Speaker 8: I'm not seeing that, So we're not here talking to
• 7:41
  Speaker 8: you like you are the dude who pulled the trigger.
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: You're the dude or whatever.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: The detectives employ another classic strategy by claiming that they
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: don't believe he was actually the murderer, he was just involved.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: A suspect is much more likely to admit to a
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: less serious charge than they are the actual crime, so
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the plan is to get something out of them and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: then work their way up to a full confession.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, before I.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: Even start saying this, I'm telling you I didn't do that,
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: all right, But so I didn't know them by that
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: name honestly. But you know what I'm saying, I didn't
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: done business with these guys before, so I know they
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: were legit people, right, those other two guys that was
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: out of his crib, the coach crib.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: I don't know them.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: They know him, but I don't. We're not cool like that,
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: So I don't do anything.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Strey talking about Dragon Boy, Yeah, he had called me up.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I mean I had called him up.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: He was like, yeah, I'm saying, I was asking, can
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: I get some some stuff off of them?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: Long story short, they pull up. I didn't want none
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: of that around Coles crib. What I'm saying, it was
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: just me, Me and the other two guys was going
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: bread together and get some shit, gotcha, But I was
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: gonna get what my throat you feel what I'm saying.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It was nothing big, ornything like that.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Kelsey does a pretty bad job of explaining the next part,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: but in essence, he heads out to buy some drugs
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: from his regular guy, but instead somebody else shows up.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: The two guys who end up getting shot. He decides
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: to go along with it, and we pick up his
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: story as the deal starts to go down.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: So I'm in the car.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, I'm counting out my money
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: that I have from everybody, and those two those two guys,
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: a matter of fact, was still was standing back there.
• 9:16
  Speaker 7: He was just with me.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Did they see them?
• 9:18
  Speaker 8: Who you think that the two two guys that got killed,
• 9:21
  Speaker 8: But they see him back there?
• 9:23
  Speaker 7: Your boy?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, probably same things. Matter of fact. The one guy,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I think he asked him for a cigarette or something.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: He was walking up with me, tas right, So that's
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: probably why he pulled off, you know what I'm saying.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: But other than that, after I called him and let
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: him know, like yo, is everything good? You know what
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: I'm saying, I'm just trying to get my stuff and
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: leave for I don't want you know what I'm saying,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: I don't I don't know who this guy is.
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: I don't really trust him like that Bro's Michael.
• 9:47
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: And then hopping the joint and we pull off, and
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: then next thing I know, some guys came open in
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: that jont.
• 9:55
  Speaker 8: And then yeah, all right, was the two guys saying,
• 9:58
  Speaker 8: two guys that was at the house.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: I don't know, That's what I'm saying. They had it
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: was all blocked up everything. I don't I don't know
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: whose who those guys was. They opened the door, took
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: some stuff out of them, you know what I'm saying.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: And that's what happened.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: For where was that at?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: That was like near the.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Front, So long story short, Kelsey had gone out to
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: buy some drugs, got into a car with two people
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: he didn't know, and all of a sudden, two guys
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: came out of nowhere and murdered the dealers. Obviously, Kelsey
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: got out and fled the scene, texting call along the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: way to let him know he's safe. It took Kelsey
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: about seven minutes to explain this entire thing over, embellishing
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: every element along the way.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: Okay, they both came to one side, which side, the
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: driver side, and then they opened the door and started
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: doing that. When I got out of the car, I
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: started running like soon they still shooting.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, I jumped everything I had and I started.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Running and when they opened the car door, they.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Just start shooting. Yeah. I didn't text nobody you know
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, called nobody. Nothing. The last people I talked.
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: To was them, okay, And did you ever see them
• 10:57
  Speaker 6: go to the pass side and that?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: What did you touch in that car?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: The door, the bag? What I'm saying, I had the bag.
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: Did you ever touch your driver side door, Nope? Did
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: you ever open the driver stoor nope? Do you ever
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: open the passenger door nope? Were you ever in the
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: front part of the car I had?
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: I tried to open the back door. You know what
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: I'm saying. That's it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: But surprise, surprise, this story doesn't line up with the evidence.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: The last part is extremely important for the detectives. Kelsey
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: has explicitly told them that he didn't touch anything in
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: front of the car, not the doors, not the seats, nothing.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: It turns out this would be his biggest mistake, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: the detectives are about to tell him, why you told.
• 11:43
  Speaker 6: Us earlier you never touched the driver side door, pass
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: that door? You know we took fingerprints off everything.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: What would touch the door for? That's our question. I
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't touch it.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: No door.
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: When we haven't finished processing by giving you the opportunity
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: now because when we do process us and you see
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: here and tell me and my my.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Finger prints won't be on their doors, and.
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: I get that hit.
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: You know, three days later, your finger prints are on
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: that door, and you had the opportunity to tell me
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: the truth. You know, how's that going to look? Because
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: here's the bottom loncast, all right? If you shot those people,
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: and it's going to look going on two ways. You're
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: going to sit here, live and we can think that
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: you want Kelsey's copl He just shot them, left them there,
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: He ain't care. Or maybe it's something happened that call,
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: maybe something they try to rob you, you know, something
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: that explains.
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: Why it had been okay.
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: But if you're not honest with us, we're not going
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: to know that. And the thing is is everything you
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: tell us, we're going back up with events. And if
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: you're telling us one thing he doesn't end up in
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: the science doesn't add up. What do you think someone's
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: gonna believe the science?
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: Are you going to work?
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: The detectives are once again confronting Kelsey with a less
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: serious option and hopes that he might finally realize he's
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: not getting out of this completely. Unscathed and at least
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: confess to something. Luckily, they're about to get exactly what
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: they're looking for, and you want to talk to.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Us talk sweet got said, Well, it was just over
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: what he was saying resonate in my mind that I
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: don't I don't want to be looked at as somebody
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: that you know what I'm saying, out of any aggressive motives,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: like don't want to be looked at as some some
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: killer or some guy that did define no reason, because
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: it honestly wasn't like that. So I got one to
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: the car, so I'm counting out the money, this, that,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: and the third the nice thing. I know, I got
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: two guns at my face. I don't know if they
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: were real. I don't know if the would be big
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: guns when it's part both of those guys in the
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: front that's in the car, nobody else on the outside
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: or anything. So had I had mine, you know what
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: I'm saying. But it was for just for persection, purposely only.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: I didn't have any intent of doing anything. I just
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: wanted to get my stuff in the go. So they
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: had this they had they turned around. It was like,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, you already know what time
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: it is.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: You feel what I'm saying. I was just like at
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: that point, I'm thinking, like these niggas about to kill me.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: You fee what I'm saying.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: And I was hesitating on giving them the money, like
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: it's not that serious as eight hundred dollars, Like you
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: don't have to do this, you feel I'm saying, We didn't.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: We never had any problems like that, so you know
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: what I'm saying. He's like, Nah, I'm not playing.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: You feel me?
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: Since started pointing more in my faate, you know what
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I'm saying. I had it actually on my head, had
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: one to my head or once in my tests. So
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: I get out of self defense. After that, those two
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: guys ranting, two guys outside, they they took off and
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: then I'm trying to open the door and I couldn't
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: even open the door from the inside.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the childli was on or whatever.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying to.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Me, The whole thing was planned out already, like they
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: were gonna still want to rock me.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: All right, how'd you get out? I climbed through the
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: passenger side, you passe side open the passenger front door.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't. I never opened the door. The door was
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: open after after that.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: And then I climbed out and I started running honestly said,
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: I'm honestly sorry that that happened.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: They're you know what I'm saying. I didn't.
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: It wasn't.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't do that. I just me wanted
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to do that out of me being a cold hearted person.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not that person, you know what I'm saying. I
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: probably guess the time that I deal with them, they thought,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, from how they go about it,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: he was sweet.
• 14:52
  Speaker 10: I don't.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I don't come off I don't. I don't come off
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: like I'm just some hardcore gangster. I'm none of that.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I aged out of self defense.
• 14:59
  Speaker 7: Where's gonna I don't have it?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Whereas I don't know I gave it to I gave
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: it to j Cole. He gave this, he did something
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know where he took it. I don't know
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: who he gave it to.
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: When did you buy it?
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Unshot? I don't remember exactly how long you had it,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I probably say a few months. Where'd you buy the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: mo at Walmart?
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Walmart? When did you buy the AMMO from Walmart.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: You're same yet got the game?
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: Did you pay crack card cash? I pay with cash cash.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And that's pretty much all the cops needed to take
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Kelsey down, but just for good measure, they made him
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: repeat his version of events once more, so.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: We'll spread down what happened that night a little bit.
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: All right, So you get in the car when they
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: drive up to Cole, say how many people were in
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: the car when they picked you?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: It was only two people in the car. I go
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: up to the window.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: I was like, what's up like here? So you like, nah,
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: but just getting a car. So I'm just like, all right, bro,
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: I guess he didn't want to do that in the
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: open or something like that, you feel what I'm saying.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: And then two other guys come out of nowhere and
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: they're just blocking my door.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I'm just like and I'm just in the back, just
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: stuck like this, you know what I'm saying.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Then they turn around put the guys in my face like, yeah,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: you don't even know what time it is.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Trying to Rodney.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Basically, with that, Kelsey has completely admitted to the murders
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: of Gregory and Ryan. The detectives did an incredible job
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of making Kelsey feel comfortable and then backing him into
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: a corner by asking exactly the right questions. They knew
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: what evidence they had and tricked Kelsey into telling what
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: they knew to be live. However, they were never able
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: to prove that there was any form of premeditation involved
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: in this case, so Kelsey was hit with two charges
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: of second degree murder and sentenced to thirty eight years
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: behind bars. Kate Lesh, however, was faced with such a
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: smart detective he couldn't help but confess to everything and
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: was sent to prison at just twenty two years old.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: Did you have him?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, Cad had been faced with anger issues throughout most
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: of his adolescent life, but he never expected it would
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: lead him here. Him and a man named Jeremiah had
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: gotten into an argument outside of a restaurant, and at
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: first it was just a normal disagreement, but it quickly
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: escalated into a full on fight where Kay drew up
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: pocket knife and stabbed Jeremiah three times. Jeremiah died of
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: his injuries, but at this point Kay doesn't know that,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: giving the detective a massive opening to get to the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: bottom of why this happened.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: I would like to know what happened tonight? Could I
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: ask you a question? Sure, is this guy Okay?
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: Is he you know?
• 17:25
  Speaker 11: I haven't heard the latest daunting yet, but obviously he
• 17:28
  Speaker 11: was involved in a fight as well, So I'm just
• 17:31
  Speaker 11: trying to piece it together what happened, you know, Once
• 17:33
  Speaker 11: I get some more information, I'll let you know. Sure,
• 17:37
  Speaker 11: But yeah, I'd just like to know kind of your
• 17:41
  Speaker 11: point of view as to what I have tonight, how
• 17:43
  Speaker 11: this started.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Sure, the detective needs to make sure kid doesn't figure
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: out Jeremiah is dead in his head. He's just facing
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: an assault charge. Kid might be more likely to confess
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: if he's unaware of the severity of the situation. So
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the detective continues under this, Guys.
• 18:00
  Speaker 12: We're going to a movie, and I think it started
• 18:02
  Speaker 12: at Threety And when you say buddies was the kad Ba,
• 18:07
  Speaker 12: which that's where they picked me up from. Okay and
• 18:10
  Speaker 12: his good friend friend Hilliard. I think his dad's actually
• 18:13
  Speaker 12: the chief belieft what happened there. I went in, sat
• 18:18
  Speaker 12: down a few other guys that worked with were there,
• 18:21
  Speaker 12: had some drinks, talked, and eventually everybody you know, tied
• 18:25
  Speaker 12: to go along.
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: We both had to work today, so decided to go home.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Kate then spends the next five minutes detailing the rest
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: of the night before getting into the argument with Jeremiah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: He says the two had their differences before, apparently he'd
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: been making some derogatory comments towards one of Caid's gay
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: friends and he wasn't happy about that, and after a
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: few drinks, that all came to a head when they
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: met again outside the bar that night.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: But at some point he did get physical with this guy. Yeah,
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: was it just one guy? I think so.
• 18:54
  Speaker 12: I just remember getting hit and telling me, you guys
• 18:57
  Speaker 12: even get off me and I'm gonna stick yet, Can
• 19:00
  Speaker 12: you guys can get off me?
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: All Caid seem to remember is being assaulted by one
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: or more people, managing to escape, and then calling nine
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: one one. But we know that there's an important element
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of this story missing, so the detective tries to ask
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a few questions that might shed a little light on
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Kaid's involvement in this fight.
• 19:18
  Speaker 11: Now, you said you got into the scuffle with this guy,
• 19:22
  Speaker 11: and were you guys exchange and punches?
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: You know, I don't.
• 19:25
  Speaker 12: I don't know that I punched him at all. I
• 19:27
  Speaker 12: know that he punched me you said that that you're
• 19:29
  Speaker 12: gonna stick it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: What did you mean by that?
• 19:32
  Speaker 12: I had my pocket knife and saying you get off me,
• 19:34
  Speaker 12: I'm gonna I'm gonna stab you, stick you. You know,
• 19:37
  Speaker 12: at this point, I didn't know how many freaking guys
• 19:39
  Speaker 12: are hitting me. I was kind of scared, you know,
• 19:42
  Speaker 12: those days, that first hit that knocked me out?
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: Do you remember stabbing this guy at all? I can't
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: remember what position we were going to happen.
• 19:50
  Speaker 12: I can't remember if if we are on the ground,
• 19:53
  Speaker 12: if if we're standing up, I can't.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: I can't remember the exact exact position. But but did
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: you yes? Yes? Do you know how many times?
• 20:03
  Speaker 12: I mean, I don't more than once, I think, I
• 20:07
  Speaker 12: think so, I couldn't tell you exact amount.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Well, that was a lot easier than anyone was expecting.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: The detective has done a very good job of putting
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Kate at ease. He's leaning in towards him and maintaining
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: eye contacts so as to show Kid that he is
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: interested in the conversation and that he's someone he can trust. This,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: in combination with Kaid not knowing the severity or what
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: he did, made it much easier for him to confess
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: to stabbing him, So now the detective just has to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: iron out all the details, something that's much easier said
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: than done. When the suspect was drunk and full of adrenaline.
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: That you don't recall maybe how many times you stabbed it.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: I don't. I don't recoll air time where you stabbed him.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: I want to say in the back maybe, like I
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: know that we were wrapped up. I think face to face, well,
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: you know, kind of like in a clinch. I don't
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: know if he had a hold of him. I had
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: a hold of him, but I'm pretty sure it was
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: were you. Yeah, I don't.
• 21:02
  Speaker 12: I don't remember if I was on my knees or
• 21:04
  Speaker 12: if we were standing up. That's the part that I
• 21:06
  Speaker 12: don't remember, but I know it's either in the side
• 21:09
  Speaker 12: or in the in the floor back area. I think
• 21:12
  Speaker 12: it was more than once, but you're not.
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: They then both decided to take a break before getting
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: right back into it thirty minutes later.
• 21:20
  Speaker 11: I think you told me before that that he threw
• 21:23
  Speaker 11: the first bunch. Yes, okay, and that's how you remember
• 21:26
  Speaker 11: it is him and then it just becomes a fight
• 21:30
  Speaker 11: after that. Was there any point that you were able
• 21:34
  Speaker 11: to be able to break away from him and get
• 21:37
  Speaker 11: away from him.
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: Move, I don't think you. Did you try to get
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: away from him?
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't want to engauge him. Were you mad
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: at him?
• 21:45
  Speaker 12: I was mad after I got hit, but I didn't
• 21:47
  Speaker 12: want to fight, and I remember telling them I don't
• 21:49
  Speaker 12: want to fight. I don't want to fight as I'm
• 21:51
  Speaker 12: getting hit. You were just trying to get away from him, yes,
• 21:53
  Speaker 12: at that point after you got hit. Yeah, but you
• 21:56
  Speaker 12: couldn't exactly Okay, So at one point during this struggle,
• 22:03
  Speaker 12: I mean, did you feel like your only choice to
• 22:05
  Speaker 12: get away from this guy was too stab after I
• 22:09
  Speaker 12: after I told him so, I didn't want to fight
• 22:11
  Speaker 12: it and I told him to stop, stops up, stop.
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: I told him I'm stay, you know, stop, Why stab?
• 22:17
  Speaker 12: And why not make more life? Which because nothing else
• 22:21
  Speaker 12: is working? Did you try some what else did you try?
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: I tried to get away physically and you know through
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: telling you.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: But this is a surprisingly important piece in this case.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Caid says he tried everything he could do to get
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: away before stabbing Jeremiah, but nothing else was working. However,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: at the same time, he claims never to have punched
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: or kicked him. From the detective's point of view, it
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: seems that kid just tried to crawl away and then
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: immediately resorted to possibly lethal force in the pocket knife.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: This could have been a split second decision kid made
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: when realizing he was in danger, but it could equally
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: have been a conscious decision made because he wanted Jeremiah dead.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: It's a difficult call to make, and the detective has
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 11: How long did it take after you started stabbing for
• 23:09
  Speaker 11: this to kind of for you guys to break apart?
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: Was it immediate? Was in a couple of minutes?
• 23:14
  Speaker 12: Was it kind of after?
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: I know, I know I stabbed him a couple of times.
• 23:18
  Speaker 12: You know I had more than months, but one month
• 23:21
  Speaker 12: or once scenes that started happening.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: Did you continue to stab him after he let go
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: of you? Or what? I don't think now? What at
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: what point did you stop stabbing? And my dessession at.
• 23:30
  Speaker 11: When I when I felt that he was he had
• 23:33
  Speaker 11: let go of me? Basically when you didn't go after
• 23:36
  Speaker 11: me more, I don't think so. No, you don't know
• 23:39
  Speaker 11: how many times you stab me? Do you have any
• 23:41
  Speaker 11: idea multiple?
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: Multiple? Okay, I couldn't give you even at close number,
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: I know, more than once.
• 23:48
  Speaker 11: And then that's kind of my issue with this incident
• 23:50
  Speaker 11: that happened is because of the number of times this
• 23:53
  Speaker 11: guy was you know, I don't have an exact count
• 23:56
  Speaker 11: because the doc everything that's going on, but it's I
• 24:00
  Speaker 11: mean we're looking.
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: At thirteen fourteen times, okay, which is a lot. Okay,
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: you know, a couple of times.
• 24:06
  Speaker 11: I can see, you know, once, twice, three times, but
• 24:09
  Speaker 11: when you start getting ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, I mean,
• 24:13
  Speaker 11: that's a lot of times.
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: To stab somebody.
• 24:15
  Speaker 12: Okay, Okay, and understand, I mean, you told me what happened,
• 24:19
  Speaker 12: why you did, and everything like that. But I gotta
• 24:21
  Speaker 12: look at everything involved here, so that the number of
• 24:23
  Speaker 12: times this guy was stabbed is a concern to me.
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 24:28
  Speaker 11: The second thing here, and this is probably gonna be
• 24:30
  Speaker 11: the hardest part to deal with, okay, is this guy's died.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: That's that's the tough part.
• 24:42
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: It doesn't leave me with a lot of choice here
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: as to what as to what to do with you.
• 24:46
  Speaker 11: Okay, you can probably understand that, right, Okay, So you're
• 24:53
  Speaker 11: gonna go to jail.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Today, And that's exactly what happened to Cad. He was
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: sent to jail and subsequently stood trial for the killing
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of Jeremiah Pays. The jury was met with a similar
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: conundrum as the detective was. It seems as though he's
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: telling the truth about the fight, and all the evidence
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: corroborates that story, but he still stabbed Jeremiah thirteen times.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: The final verdict was one of voluntary manslaughter, a crime
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: separate to first or second degree murder. It's given to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: suspects who intended to kill somebody but aren't guilty of
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: murder due to provocation, to circumstances that would cause a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: reasonable person to act in the same way. In Caid's case,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: this makes perfect sense, and the head jurer of this
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: case put it best. He didn't doubt Caid was afraid,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: but he wasn't acting entirely out of fear. For this reason,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Caid was sentenced to twenty two years in prison and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: will be eligible for parole after just ten years. The
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: detective did an incredibly good job of extracting the full
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: truth from Caid, especially under these complex circumstances, but in
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the case of Le Rodarte, they were faced with a
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: much more formidable opponent. Lee thought he was smarter than
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the cops and was ready to try and outsmart them,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: but the cops were ready to use their years of
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: experience and put them to the test to get a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: confession from him.
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: Where where is no?
• 26:09
  Speaker 10: No? No?
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Where did you go with her?
• 26:11
  Speaker 10: I know you're not that cruel as I I'm begging you, Lee,
• 26:14
  Speaker 10: just tell us I.
• 26:16
  Speaker 7: Don't know where she is.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: This is Lera Darte, a man taken into custody for
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: being suspected of kidnapping and killing his coworker, Savannah Gold,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: with no ideas of where Savannah could be. The cops
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: knew getting this interrogation wrong could mean they might never
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: catch the killer. What's even worse is that Lee had
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a full proof story that was going to make sure
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Savannah was never to be found. Lee, however, is under
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the impression that he is smarter than the detectives. Little
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: did he know this would be a massive mistake for him.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: On the second of August twenty seventeen, Savannah's family received
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: text messages stating she was running away and quitting her job.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: The messages were riddled with errors, causing her family to
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: panic and reporter is missing immediately Throughout the investigation, the
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: police were grasping its straws until they were suddenly sent
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the CCTV footage from the Bonefish Grill, where Savannah worked.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: The video shows her getting into a silver car in
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the parking lot before it began to shake violently, with
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the door being thrust open and pulled shot three times.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: The car then drove out of the parking lot and
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Savannah was never seen again. After a series of interviews,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: they discovered the car was identical to Lee Radartes, a
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: manager at the grill and boyfriend to Savannah for around
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: two months. Lee was immediately arrested on suspicion of murder
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and brought into the interrogation room. However, he was told
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: by police it was for an unimportant traffic warrant, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: that's when the following happened.
• 27:48
  Speaker 13: I'll say, you can go ahead and have seat for
• 27:51
  Speaker 13: me real quick.
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: I'll be right back, Okay, yes, sir.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Being told the detective will be right back obviously implies
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to Lee that he won't have to wait long to
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: be seen, but it'd actually be ninety minutes before anyone
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: enters the room again. Only a few days ago, Lee
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: was interviewed about the disappearance of a girl he kidnapped,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and now he's been handcuffed and taken into a police
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: interrogation room. Lee will be feeling incredibly anxious now, but remember,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: he's confident that there's no way the cops have enough
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: evidence to take him down. But unfortunately for him, the
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: facade the detectives.
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: Put up is all about to be ripped away. Hey,
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: I'm good, good you remember me from the other day,
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: Protective reason Smott Partner Detecutive Sailors.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: The detective that enters isn't the same one that brought
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: him in. It's the one who interviewed him about Savannah
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: three days prior. Any comfort he found in thinking this
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: was all unrelated has now been completely taken away and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: replaced with pure panic. But Lee's plan remains the same,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: so he tries to keep himself composed as he prepares
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: for the onslaught of questions he's about to be hit with.
• 28:54
  Speaker 13: So, Savannah, you said that you knew her, and you
• 28:57
  Speaker 13: guys had you knew her from work? I mean just
• 29:00
  Speaker 13: kind of filled me in. How long have you known her?
• 29:02
  Speaker 14: Like I said, I've known her obviously since you've worked,
• 29:05
  Speaker 14: since you started working there. I would say probably about
• 29:09
  Speaker 14: eight months ago. We started hanging out outside of work,
• 29:12
  Speaker 14: and at the time I had a girlfriend, but I
• 29:15
  Speaker 14: kind of, you know, we kind of connected, me and Savannah,
• 29:18
  Speaker 14: So we hung out a little bit here and there,
• 29:20
  Speaker 14: got pretty close. We come from I guess somewhat similar backgrounds.
• 29:26
  Speaker 14: I guess you should say.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: The question Lee was given was how long have you
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: known Savannah? A question that shortly merits a fairly simple answer.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: When hit with a question like this, people who have
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: nothing to hide keep their responses short, taking the questions
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: at face value, but people who feel pressured will usually
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: extend their answers to questions in an effort to seem
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: as though they know what they're talking about, something Lee
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: will fall victim to.
• 29:50
  Speaker 14: So we kind of connected, hung out for a little while,
• 29:53
  Speaker 14: i'd probably say a period of two three months, and
• 29:59
  Speaker 14: then and she started using drugs a lot.
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: I did them with her a couple of times, and.
• 30:07
  Speaker 14: Then she started to get heavy into them, and oh gotcha, Okay,
• 30:11
  Speaker 14: so I kind of just tried to take a step
• 30:15
  Speaker 14: back and you know, put things off. And then probably
• 30:21
  Speaker 14: a month or so ago, I saw Savannah at work
• 30:25
  Speaker 14: and she looked healthy again. You know, she gained a
• 30:28
  Speaker 14: little bit away. We kind of were talking, you know,
• 30:31
  Speaker 14: here and there. We hung out a couple of times.
• 30:33
  Speaker 14: She can move to the house and you know, we
• 30:35
  Speaker 14: just kicked back, drink a couple of beers, watch movies,
• 30:38
  Speaker 14: stuff like that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: In total, Lee spoke for over five minutes in response
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: to a single simple question, going so far as to
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: detail specific encounters between the pair. Now that the detectives
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: have even more reason to suspect that he may be
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: hiding something, they decided to call him out on something
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: small to gauge his reaction. In the first interview, Lee
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: had told investigators he hadn't seen Savannah in a one
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: but if the CCTV footage is to be believed, this
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: is a bold faced line.
• 31:05
  Speaker 14: And then as we hung out, you know, after a
• 31:07
  Speaker 14: couple of times she brought drugs over.
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: That told her.
• 31:10
  Speaker 14: I was like, you know, you're doing really good. You
• 31:12
  Speaker 14: can't you know, you shouldn't be doing it again. I
• 31:15
  Speaker 14: think we moved too fast.
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: Split ut ways, Yeah, and that was the last time
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: that we text. It was probably two or three weeks ago,
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: sometime in.
• 31:27
  Speaker 9: July, right right, Yeah, And I think that's one of
• 31:29
  Speaker 9: the things you said, was that was the last time
• 31:31
  Speaker 9: that you had contact with her?
• 31:34
  Speaker 13: As far as I don't want to put words in
• 31:36
  Speaker 13: your mouth, so I mean you correct me.
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: It was the last time that I texted her?
• 31:39
  Speaker 9: Yeah, text or a phone call or a messenger or
• 31:43
  Speaker 9: anything like us two or three weeks.
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: Ago, yeah, okay.
• 31:46
  Speaker 13: And and then the last time, when was the last
• 31:49
  Speaker 13: time you saw her?
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: This is what I was a bit. I didn't tell
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: you the truth when we talked about the Fish.
• 31:57
  Speaker 8: Okay.
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: The last time I saw her was Wednesday afternoon. Okay.
• 32:01
  Speaker 14: I heard that she has been basically telling a lot
• 32:06
  Speaker 14: of people at work that we hooked up a bunch
• 32:09
  Speaker 14: like a couple of days before that. So I met
• 32:14
  Speaker 14: her in the parking lot at Bonefish Wednesdays, Wednesday afternoon, okay.
• 32:20
  Speaker 14: Whether you know what time or about it was about
• 32:23
  Speaker 14: five point thirty okay.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Without realizing it, Lee has already provided us with enough
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: evidence to assume he's guilty. We know he knew Savannah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: he had the same vehicle seen in the footage, and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: he was present at the scene of the crime when
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: it happened. Remember, Lee has no idea the cops have
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: footage of the event. If he knew about it, he
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: would have tried to provide an alibi that put him
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: somewhere completely different. Unfortunately, though, this isn't quite enough evidence
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: for the cops to get a guaranteed conviction.
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: Instead, they need.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: To push further to try and extract a full confession,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: something that will not come easy at all.
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: I parked and I said, hey, can I talk to
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: you for a second? And she said, yeah, what's up?
• 33:07
  Speaker 14: And I was like, I heard you've been saying some
• 33:10
  Speaker 14: things about me and you continuing to hang out and
• 33:14
  Speaker 14: you know that we're boyfriend and girlfriend. And she asked me,
• 33:19
  Speaker 14: she said, can I come sit in the car because
• 33:22
  Speaker 14: I just did some heroin and I'm a little paranoid.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: It was never confirmed that Savannah did do heroin. Nobody
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: in her life mentioned seeing or suspecting she used it,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: and even if she did, she was headed to a
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: shift at her job as this conversation was taking place.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: If she was able to do that without getting paranoid,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: it seems strange she couldn't simply have a chat in
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the parking lot.
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: So she came and sat in a car and I
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: explained thur this this race.
• 33:48
  Speaker 14: I told her that servers at bonefish were coming to
• 33:52
  Speaker 14: me and telling me that you're telling people when you're
• 33:55
  Speaker 14: out that boyfriend and girlfriend.
• 33:57
  Speaker 7: And I said, I need you to stop, because us,
• 34:00
  Speaker 7: for one, is jeopardizing my job. We agreed to, you know, split,
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: stop talking mutually and just move on.
• 34:07
  Speaker 14: But it was nothing more than that, and she said,
• 34:10
  Speaker 14: I'm gonna do what I want. I didn't tell anybody anything.
• 34:13
  Speaker 14: At that point, I got out and I punched you
• 34:16
  Speaker 14: a hole on retire and I said, now stop and
• 34:20
  Speaker 14: I said, don't do it again, or next time it's
• 34:23
  Speaker 14: gonna be worse. It's gonna be your windows. At that point,
• 34:26
  Speaker 14: she had her phone in her hands. She got out
• 34:28
  Speaker 14: of the car and walked towards the main entrance with
• 34:32
  Speaker 14: San Jose.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Obviously, this entire explanation was crafted to try and create
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: an alibi as close as possible to what actually happened,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: but the few small inaccuracies are actually glaring windows directly
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: into the truth. We know that Savannah never left the
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: vehicle in the parking lot, and that she drove away
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: with him just minutes after getting in. Lee is unwittingly
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: constructing a mountain of evidence against him in the form
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: of lies that he thinks he's getting away with and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: he's not finished yet.
• 35:02
  Speaker 14: And it looked like she was either texting or calling somebody,
• 35:06
  Speaker 14: because as you started walking towards the there's an entrance
• 35:11
  Speaker 14: to bump to the plaza. She was walking maybe towards
• 35:15
  Speaker 14: this way, and I was saying, older model Ford pickup
• 35:22
  Speaker 14: greened drove past me and around and she got in.
• 35:29
  Speaker 9: How do you think it was between the time that
• 35:32
  Speaker 9: she got out and started using her phone to that
• 35:34
  Speaker 9: green truck pulled.
• 35:35
  Speaker 7: Up maybe five minutes?
• 35:38
  Speaker 13: So wow, so she called somebody They got there in
• 35:41
  Speaker 13: five minutes to pick her up.
• 35:42
  Speaker 14: Well, I mean, like I said, she she it looked
• 35:44
  Speaker 14: like she was going to call somebody, and that's when
• 35:46
  Speaker 14: the green truck came.
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: Around and she got in. So she is in the truck.
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: What what happened to that one?
• 35:54
  Speaker 7: They drove back around, kind of looped around a little bit.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Which way did they drive?
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: So I guess they exit that way And at that
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: point I left.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Lee doubles down on the line again, thinking that this
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: puts him completely in the clear, as he wouldn't have
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: been the last person to see Savannah, but his decisions
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: continue to work against him. Had he decided to stick
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: closer to the truth. He might have been able to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: argue that he took Savannah somewhere else and then parted
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: ways with her, But without the knowledge of what police
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: have against him, Lee is left simply guessing and forced
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to make up stories on the fly. This is why
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: it's so important to call a lawyer. Innocent or not.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: In an interrogation, detectives are allowed to both lie and
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: withhold evidence from you, putting you in a very difficult
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: situation where you're at the mercy of their tactics and games. However,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the second you bring in an attorney into the mix,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: things get exponentially easier, as police are forced to turn
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: over all of the evidence in their possession so they
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: can put together a fair and sound defense for you.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Calling a lawyer isn't just having a wingman at the
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: entire gation room. It's an unlocked door that bypasses almost
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: all of the police's tricks. It goes from them interrogating
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: you to a legal battle. But needless to say, Lee
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: hasn't called the lawyer and has been left at a
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: disadvantage from the beginning. If Lee was as smart as
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: he thinks he is, he wouldn't have waived this right
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: and likely would be in a much better position.
• 37:24
  Speaker 7: That was self inflicted. Actually, why, I just have been
• 37:29
  Speaker 7: having kind of a hard time here. I couldn't. Yeah,
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: I did and wanted to use a knife.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: When did you do that.
• 37:44
  Speaker 7: Some time in July?
• 37:47
  Speaker 13: You did that in July?
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: And it's still yeah, bloody.
• 37:50
  Speaker 14: Well it's I kind of peeled this scap here and
• 37:54
  Speaker 14: there at work, hanging in all stuff like that.
• 37:56
  Speaker 7: I peeled it last night working and was coming off
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: a little bit today, so I kiel that all right,
• 38:03
  Speaker 7: I see, But this and this was the same night.
• 38:06
  Speaker 7: This one was just a lot worse.
• 38:08
  Speaker 13: Yeah, and this one was and that was in July, yeah,
• 38:16
  Speaker 13: like a few weeks back.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, it doesn't take a genius to realize how
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: brazen of a lie this is. Aside from his incredibly
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: unconvincing delivery of his excuses, Lee has no history with
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: self harm and was reported to have been in good
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: spirits in the weeks leading up to this event. Furthermore,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Lee becomes visibly anxious here. Most people have a tell
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: that shows when they're lying or feeling uncomfortable. For many,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: this is crossing their arms or slouching in their chair,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: but Lee keeps his posture and position fairly consistent throughout
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: the interview. Instead, Lee is prone to subconscious jittery movements
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: in his limbs. Earlier in the interview, while being caught
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: in his first lie, he bounced his leg repeatedly the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: entire time. Well here he moves his hand and fingers
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: unnaturally every time he tells a lie. In fact, it's
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: almost comical how perfectly it lines up with the false
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: statements I.
• 39:07
  Speaker 7: Met her in the parking lot.
• 39:09
  Speaker 14: I bonefish Wednesday afternoon that was self inflicted, actually.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: A knife.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: It's also interesting to note that the detectives almost certainly
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: notice these marks just seconds into the interview. The decision
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: to mention it now was a conscious one done to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: try and build pressure. Lee would likely have anxiety regarding
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: his last big lie about Savannah exiting his vehicle. Catching
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: him so suddenly in a second lie right after will
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: likely amplify these feelings and cause him to feel even
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: more paranoia as the detectives continue. This is also likely
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: why they immediately flip back to talking about the truck
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: right after.
• 39:48
  Speaker 13: Could you see who the person in the truck was?
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: The truck had fairly ted windows.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I saw.
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: A baseball cap. Yeah, you see a guy girl. I
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: couldn't really tell if it was a guy or a girl.
• 40:04
  Speaker 14: I just remember seeing the truck drive and her get in,
• 40:08
  Speaker 14: and all the time I'm sitting in front and truck
• 40:10
  Speaker 14: drives right past me, and I saw a baseball cap
• 40:14
  Speaker 14: through the passenger window.
• 40:17
  Speaker 13: But so it seemed like she knew the person.
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: I mean, she got right in.
• 40:21
  Speaker 10: Why didn't you mention this before since we've been looking
• 40:24
  Speaker 10: for this girl, I.
• 40:24
  Speaker 14: Mean, when you think that information, I mean it definitely,
• 40:27
  Speaker 14: it definitely does. And I regret obviously not saying anything before.
• 40:33
  Speaker 9: So I when I come up and talked to you yesterday,
• 40:37
  Speaker 9: I'm not threatening. I'm just I'm talking to everybody up there.
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: What I just you know, I freaked out, to be
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: honest with you, I mean.
• 40:43
  Speaker 13: This girl, yes, okay, but you know she's been I
• 40:48
  Speaker 13: just know.
• 40:48
  Speaker 14: I mean, obviously you know I was the last one
• 40:51
  Speaker 14: to see her. So I was a little bit scared
• 40:53
  Speaker 14: at that.
• 40:55
  Speaker 13: You just said you weren't last one to see her.
• 40:57
  Speaker 13: You just said somebody in truck.
• 40:58
  Speaker 14: Well, I mean the last one to see her at Bonefish.
• 41:01
  Speaker 14: That the last one she's heard from I had contact
• 41:04
  Speaker 14: with that. Anybody knows, though, Sure.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: The detective knows he's starting to catch Lee on the
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: back foot, so decides to keep the pressure up.
• 41:12
  Speaker 13: So where's Savannah right now?
• 41:14
  Speaker 8: I don't know?
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: Where would I find her? I don't know.
• 41:17
  Speaker 9: That's my My prime objective is to find her. And
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: here's a couple of reasons I need to find her.
• 41:23
  Speaker 13: One is, I'm hoping that that she's still alive, and
• 41:27
  Speaker 13: that's really I really do. I'm holding out for that.
• 41:31
  Speaker 13: And if she's not alive, then I think she and
• 41:34
  Speaker 13: her family are do that knowledge. I think they need
• 41:38
  Speaker 13: some closure.
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: So where is she? I don't know where she is?
• 41:42
  Speaker 13: Where is Sah?
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 41:44
  Speaker 13: I need to know where Savannah is.
• 41:45
  Speaker 7: I don't know where she is.
• 41:47
  Speaker 13: You don't know because you had something done with her
• 41:51
  Speaker 13: and you weren't involved in that part.
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 41:53
  Speaker 7: Tell me something.
• 41:54
  Speaker 13: What can I work with?
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: I told you the last song I saw her, that's
• 41:58
  Speaker 7: not true.
• 41:58
  Speaker 10: Because we have proof. We have proof, and that's why
• 42:02
  Speaker 10: we're sitting here Lee at this point.
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: We need this for her.
• 42:05
  Speaker 10: I mean, I look at that little girl and I
• 42:07
  Speaker 10: think of my little girl, My little girl, who's her age?
• 42:10
  Speaker 10: That's who I think about.
• 42:12
  Speaker 15: That was my little girl.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I couldn't imagine.
• 42:14
  Speaker 7: I don't care what she said about you or whatever,
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: but my.
• 42:18
  Speaker 10: Little girl is that age?
• 42:20
  Speaker 7: Maybe and you're not telling the truth.
• 42:22
  Speaker 13: Maybe someone gets out of hand in the car.
• 42:24
  Speaker 7: I didn't do anything. Okay, you didn't do anything that
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: she was in your car.
• 42:27
  Speaker 10: She never got out of your car.
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: She never got out of your car.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: Lee.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: This is where the true genius of these detectives start
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: to shine. The initially quiet female detective suddenly starts to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: speak up. The male detective had a very deadpan, professional
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: demeanor throughout the interrogation, so having that suddenly contrasted by
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: a vulnerable, emotional looking person being thrust in front of
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: him would likely come as even more of a shock
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: to him, especially as she starts to become more emotive
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and even starts to beg him.
• 43:00
  Speaker 10: She never gets out of that car and you drive off.
• 43:03
  Speaker 10: She never gets out of that car. There is no
• 43:06
  Speaker 10: cream truck, and that's not right to her or fact finders. Lee,
• 43:09
  Speaker 10: I don't have anything personal against you.
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: No, no, not at all.
• 43:12
  Speaker 13: I mean, it's it's where does find.
• 43:19
  Speaker 7: No, no, no, where did you go?
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: With her?
• 43:22
  Speaker 13: Where did you go with her?
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: Lee?
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: Be human?
• 43:24
  Speaker 13: You're a human, you're a man.
• 43:26
  Speaker 14: Where did you go with her?
• 43:27
  Speaker 13: I know you're not that cruel inside. Maybe you don't
• 43:31
  Speaker 13: know where she is at?
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: Where do you go with her?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Please?
• 43:34
  Speaker 10: I'm begging you, Lee, I know you're not an eagle person.
• 43:38
  Speaker 10: I don't see that in you. I don't see that
• 43:42
  Speaker 10: in your history. I don't hear those things about you
• 43:44
  Speaker 10: at work. And she's still at your house. Okay, she's
• 43:48
  Speaker 10: still in your car.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: Okay, where is she?
• 43:54
  Speaker 10: What is going on in the backseat for the doors
• 43:57
  Speaker 10: to be kicked open? She kicked open that door three
• 44:00
  Speaker 10: times late.
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: She kicked it.
• 44:03
  Speaker 10: We saw it, and you kN And you know I'm
• 44:05
  Speaker 10: not making it up because I wouldn't know this cause
• 44:07
  Speaker 10: I wasn't there unless we had a video of it. Correct, Yes, correct,
• 44:11
  Speaker 10: I'm not trying to trick you. I'm just a fact finder.
• 44:15
  Speaker 15: I mean, she was upset. She tried to slap me.
• 44:19
  Speaker 15: I slapped her. She wanted to get out. I grabbed
• 44:24
  Speaker 15: her around her waist. She said, where are you going?
• 44:27
  Speaker 15: Where are you hitting me? She calmed down, and the lift.
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: Why would she be with you after that?
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I would?
• 44:36
  Speaker 14: I mean We've got arguments plenty of times where she
• 44:38
  Speaker 14: says she doesn't care what happens or anything like that.
• 44:43
  Speaker 9: Alright, sometimes people do wrong with things, right, some people
• 44:47
  Speaker 9: people make mistakes.
• 44:49
  Speaker 7: That's what you do afterwards.
• 44:50
  Speaker 9: I got a family at the disclosure.
• 44:53
  Speaker 13: They are now coming to the reality that she's alonger
• 44:56
  Speaker 13: with us.
• 44:57
  Speaker 9: You want people to remember you as a guy who said, Okay, look,
• 45:01
  Speaker 9: I'm gonna do the right thing. Or do you want
• 45:03
  Speaker 9: your family to everybody else to think that you're some
• 45:06
  Speaker 9: evil hearts person who won't tell us where she is.
• 45:09
  Speaker 9: I don't think you're that kind of guy. I don't
• 45:11
  Speaker 9: think you're just tell us where she is closure for
• 45:14
  Speaker 9: her family.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: She was hitting me.
• 45:21
  Speaker 7: She wouldn't stop and squeeze back, just.
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: Squeezed, squeeze her neck or where lease.
• 45:45
  Speaker 13: Of the clip Clay Club do Clay and long Champ?
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 45:51
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, okay.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Just a few days later, a dive team recovered the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: remains of Savannah Gold, burned and almost unrecognizable, so much
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: much so that her cause of death couldn't even be determined.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Lee Rodarte pleaded guilty to the second degree murder of
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Savannah and in March of twenty twenty one was sentenced
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: to forty years behind bars.