Transcript

Sharri | 7 September · Sharri

0:07
Speaker 1: Good evening. Tonight, I'll play you the tapes of Australia's
0:10
Speaker 1: top spy chief's explosive comments, how his urgent warnings were
0:15
Speaker 1: underestimated by those in leadership positions before the Bondi massacre.
0:20
Speaker 1: Our exclusive coming up. And the chair of Australia's largest
0:24
Speaker 1: real estate listing site joins us live on the show
0:27
Speaker 1: as the Albanese government tries to downplay the housing crunch.
0:32
Speaker 1: And why the celebrities and internet feminists have it all
0:35
Speaker 1: wrong on Lindsay Clancy, who is nothing less than a killer.
0:40
Speaker 1: But first tonight, I'll bring you exclusive comments from ASIO
0:44
Speaker 1: Director-General Mike Burgess. In a bombshell interview, you can hear
0:49
Speaker 1: just how frustrated he is that his urgent warnings on
0:53
Speaker 1: anti-Semitism posing a deadly threat were underestimated by those in
0:58
Speaker 1: leadership positions before Bondi. The spy chief gave us his
1:02
Speaker 1: first exclusive sit-down interview since the massacre for our book
1:07
Speaker 1: Bondi Terror, and he reveals that he has moments of
1:11
Speaker 1: deep regret. But he insists others in society should have
1:16
Speaker 1: listened to his public warnings about the urgency of the
1:19
Speaker 1: threat posed by anti-Semitism. Instead, he said the hatred became normalised.
1:25
Speaker 1: and that this increased the permission for politically motivated violence. Well,
1:31
Speaker 1: hear it for yourself. Here's what Mike Burgess told Alex
1:34
Speaker 1: Rivchin and I when we interviewed him for our book
1:37
Speaker 1: Bondi Terror. Could you speak to how you as ASIO
1:42
Speaker 1: Director General sat there and watched this escalate and perhaps
1:47
Speaker 1: some of the emotion, the horror you felt as you
1:50
Speaker 1: just saw this rise? starting with words and then becoming
1:53
Speaker 1: a serious problem about violence.
1:55
Speaker 2: In terms of what I was doing, I was concerned, though,
1:58
Speaker 2: about the trajectory of our threat environment and I made
2:01
Speaker 2: that known publicly.
2:02
Speaker 3: Of course, it is a matter of.
2:04
Speaker 2: Deep regret that, you know, could I have done more? Perhaps, yes,
2:09
Speaker 2: I could have shouted stronger. But in the end, you know,
2:13
Speaker 2: I would suggest security is a shared responsibility in society
2:16
Speaker 2: and others actually had to take up that call either
2:19
Speaker 2: challenge me for more details or take action.
2:22
Speaker 3: And I know as much as I'm.
2:25
Speaker 2: Critical of this in terms of there is the benefit
2:27
Speaker 2: of hindsight and then there's the handicap of hindsight.
2:31
Speaker 3: You've got to be careful of both in this process.
2:34
Speaker 1: Look, that's a major admission from ASIO's Director-General. He says
2:39
Speaker 1: he could have shouted louder, but he's saying very clearly
2:43
Speaker 1: that others had to take up his warnings about the
2:46
Speaker 1: threat of anti-Semitism. those in leadership positions. And this is
2:51
Speaker 1: the point. What did the Albanese government actually do after
2:56
Speaker 1: Mike Burgess elevated the terror threat level to probable in
3:00
Speaker 1: August 2024? And that meant there was a greater than 50%
3:03
Speaker 1: chance of a terror attack in the next 12 months.
3:07
Speaker 1: What did they do? Did the Prime Minister, the Foreign
3:11
Speaker 1: Affairs Minister, the Home Affairs Minister actually do anything meaningful
3:16
Speaker 1: to invest more heavily in counter-terrorism and anti-Semitism after Burgess's
3:22
Speaker 1: explicit warnings? And this is precisely the reason that Albanese
3:28
Speaker 1: government ministers should be called publicly to give evidence in
3:32
Speaker 1: the Royal Commission. The accountability in public is essential. especially
3:38
Speaker 1: given what Burgess has told us. Alex and I interviewed
3:42
Speaker 1: Burgess for our book, Bondi Terror. It was his first
3:45
Speaker 1: interview since the terror attack. And we're grateful he gave
3:50
Speaker 1: us the time and answered, look, I have to say,
3:52
Speaker 1: some pretty tough questions about what ASIO knew about the
3:56
Speaker 1: alleged shooters ahead of the attack. Now, that's all in
4:00
Speaker 1: our book, which you can order at Amazon and Booktopia.
4:03
Speaker 1: But I can tell you that Burgess's strong view is
4:06
Speaker 1: that the hatred that first erupted at the Opera House
4:09
Speaker 1: rally on October 9 went largely unchallenged and became normalised
4:15
Speaker 1: because it wasn't properly addressed by law enforcement or political leaders.
4:21
Speaker 1: And here he is speaking about this in our interview.
4:24
Speaker 3: Well, I was genuinely, I was concerned, gravely concerned.
4:31
Speaker 2: I believe that my organisation has done its job and
4:33
Speaker 2: we've communicated that. But like some Australians, I was concerned
4:38
Speaker 2: about this and concerned about behaviours being normalised.
4:41
Speaker 3: And again, I've said that in public speeches.
4:45
Speaker 2: Those behaviours being normalised raised the temperature, which increased the
4:49
Speaker 2: permission for politically motivated violence. And sadly, we saw that,
4:53
Speaker 2: as I've said, from threatening, intimidating behaviour through to direct
4:57
Speaker 2: targeting of people, businesses and places of worship through.
5:01
Speaker 3: To the killings of Jewish Australians.
5:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's pretty awful when you reflect on that trajectory.
5:09
Speaker 1: And he's exactly right. The hatred that exploded wasn't adequately
5:14
Speaker 1: addressed by either political leaders or law enforcement. And so
5:19
Speaker 1: it sent the message that it was condoned, tolerated, acceptable,
5:24
Speaker 1: and it only escalated from there. Mike Burgess's phrase right
5:28
Speaker 1: there that you just heard, that it increased the permission
5:31
Speaker 1: for politically motivated violence, it's spot on. We saw inaction
5:37
Speaker 1: and inertia from law enforcement and politicians after the hatred
5:41
Speaker 1: first exploded in Western Sydney on October 8 and then
5:45
Speaker 1: at the Opera House on October 9. And that lack
5:48
Speaker 1: of leadership, that lax policing from the very start was
5:53
Speaker 1: the beginning of the escalation of hatred. How frustrating it
5:58
Speaker 1: must have been as ASIO Director General to repeatedly warn
6:03
Speaker 1: about rising anti-Semitism and then watch law enforcement and political
6:07
Speaker 1: leaders take too little action. Now, in our interview, Burgess
6:13
Speaker 1: also made some fascinating points about how quickly humanity can turn.
6:17
Speaker 1: I mean, in today's age, we often sit back and
6:21
Speaker 1: think the rise of Nazi Germany would just never happen now.
6:26
Speaker 1: But Burgess spoke about how even good people can be
6:30
Speaker 1: misled into doing bad things or simply doing nothing. Have
6:35
Speaker 1: a listen to this.
6:37
Speaker 3: Generally, people are good people. Very few people are evil.
6:42
Speaker 3: Very few people want to kill people.
6:43
Speaker 2: But sadly, the way that history tells you, even good
6:46
Speaker 2: people can be drawn into bad things and then they
6:50
Speaker 2: just accept it.
6:51
Speaker 3: And let's look.
6:53
Speaker 2: At Germany today. There were many good people that just
7:00
Speaker 2: joined the wagon and look what happened.
7:04
Speaker 1: They're powerful words and it's a powerful lesson about inaction
7:08
Speaker 1: and indifference. Terrorism and radical Islamic extremism are problems facing
7:15
Speaker 1: all of Australia and they're problems we must confront rather
7:19
Speaker 1: than simply turn away from. And I'll come back to
7:26
Speaker 1: that with Dave Sharma later in the show. But to
7:29
Speaker 1: the United States now, where the criminal trial of Lindsay
7:32
Speaker 1: Clancy has collapsed without a verdict, with the judge being
7:35
Speaker 1: forced to declare a mistrial. The case has gripped not
7:39
Speaker 1: just America, but many around the world for the past
7:43
Speaker 1: six weeks. The Massachusetts mother pleaded not guilty to three
7:48
Speaker 1: counts of first-degree murder after strangling her three children. Lindsay's husband, Patrick,
7:55
Speaker 1: came home on the night of 24 January 2023 to
8:00
Speaker 1: find their five-year-old daughter, Cora, and three-year-old son, Dawson, dead.
8:06
Speaker 1: Their little eight-month-old son, Callan, survived for several days before
8:11
Speaker 1: also dying. It's a tragedy too great for words. Now,
8:17
Speaker 1: Clancy has admitted to killing her three children in But
8:21
Speaker 1: her defence team argued she was suffering from postpartum psychosis,
8:26
Speaker 1: a very rare condition which meant they said that she
8:29
Speaker 1: shouldn't be held criminally responsible. Shockingly, despite what she did
8:34
Speaker 1: to her three innocent and beautiful children, there have been
8:38
Speaker 1: crowds of women all dressed in pink outside the courthouse
8:43
Speaker 1: showing their support for her. And half the internet is
8:46
Speaker 1: backing her too. And somehow they're casting the blame on
8:49
Speaker 1: her ex-husband, and those who didn't give her enough support.
8:54
Speaker 1: But the other half of the internet is outraged that
8:57
Speaker 1: the so-called feminists are somehow siding with a baby killer.
9:01
Speaker 1: And there's now a viral trend of kids hearing their
9:04
Speaker 1: mum say she supports Lindsay Clancy with images like this one.
9:10
Speaker 1: And then there are clips like this that you can
9:12
Speaker 1: see now in your screen, asking mummy for some fruit snacks,
9:15
Speaker 1: but I see her nodding along with Lindsay Clancy. The
9:21
Speaker 1: 12-person jury was unable to reach a unanimous consensus after
9:24
Speaker 1: deliberating for almost 40 hours. 11 voted to acquit. Extraordinary.
9:30
Speaker 1: But one held out.
9:33
Speaker 4: Willie, the district attorney will now decide if the case
9:35
Speaker 4: should move ahead to a retrial and whether he'll bring
9:39
Speaker 4: the same charges. He'll also have to weigh how the
9:41
Speaker 4: surviving family members want to move forward. Are they willing
9:44
Speaker 4: to sit through another painful and emotional trial? An attorney
9:47
Speaker 4: for Clancy's ex-husband, Patrick, said in a statement, the prospect
9:51
Speaker 4: of reliving this tragedy through another trial is extraordinarily painful. Alternatively,
9:56
Speaker 4: the DA could offer Clancy a plea deal. There is
9:58
Speaker 4: a status hearing set for late this month, but the
10:00
Speaker 4: judge has already indicated his preference is to set a
10:03
Speaker 4: trial date as soon as this fall. While this all
10:06
Speaker 4: plays out, Clancy remains in psychiatric care at a state
10:09
Speaker 4: hospital in Massachusetts.
10:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, so prosecutors have not announced whether they'll seek to
10:15
Speaker 1: retry Clancy, but if they do, it'll be another long
10:18
Speaker 1: and intense trial. But if she's let off, this will
10:23
Speaker 1: be a dangerous precedent. And not just for the women,
10:27
Speaker 1: because next time a husband kills his wife or children,
10:31
Speaker 1: he might be able to claim mental illness too. And
10:35
Speaker 1: for all the mums out there who feel sorry for Lindsay,
10:38
Speaker 1: spare a thought for the actual victims, Cora, Dawson and Callan.
10:43
Speaker 1: They were strangled to death. They didn't have a chance
10:47
Speaker 1: and they are the ones you should feel sorry for. Well,
10:55
Speaker 1: Labor's tax changes have had dire consequences for the housing
10:59
Speaker 1: market and it's causing reverberations throughout the economy. The chairman
11:03
Speaker 1: of Australia's largest real estate listing site, the $ 23 billion
11:08
Speaker 1: REA group, Hamish McLennan, is tonight warning that the consequences
11:13
Speaker 1: of Albanese government's tax hikes could span well beyond the
11:16
Speaker 1: housing crunch to hit bank dividends and self-funded retirees. And
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Speaker 1: I'm pleased to say that Hamish joins me now for
11:24
Speaker 1: an exclusive interview in studio. Hamish, welcome. Thank you for
11:28
Speaker 1: being here.
11:28
Speaker 5: Thank you.
11:29
Speaker 1: So as the chair of REA, what can you tell
11:32
Speaker 1: us about how severely the property market has been impacted
11:36
Speaker 1: by these tax changes, along with the interest rate rises?
11:41
Speaker 6: So I've been chair for 14 years now, and it's
11:44
Speaker 6: probably the worst I've seen in terms of demand and
11:48
Speaker 6: confidence in the sector. And I think it's really troubling.
11:50
Speaker 6: And it's troubling because the knock-on effects, I don't think,
11:53
Speaker 6: have really been thought through by the government. So you're
11:56
Speaker 6: going to see a situation where Bank dividends potentially could
12:00
Speaker 6: come off over time. And I think in a market,
12:03
Speaker 6: you want your house to increase in value. And, you know,
12:07
Speaker 6: when people feel confident with the value of their house,
12:09
Speaker 6: they'll spend money on cars and holidays and family and
12:12
Speaker 6: so forth. And I think that lack of confidence or
12:15
Speaker 6: the government moving the goalposts has caused instability.
12:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's correct. it's affecting so many different
12:22
Speaker 1: sectors and industries, the construction sector, where, you know, we're
12:25
Speaker 1: likely to see layoffs as well there. But just focusing
12:28
Speaker 1: on the comment that you just made about how it'll
12:30
Speaker 1: affect bank dividends, well, that then would end up affecting
12:34
Speaker 1: self-funded retirees, wouldn't it?
12:36
Speaker 6: Well, I think money lenders have to lend money. So
12:39
Speaker 6: if houses are not getting turned over, they're not going
12:42
Speaker 6: to be able to loan money. And then I think
12:43
Speaker 6: a natural progression is for you to think that dividends
12:46
Speaker 6: will come off over time.
12:48
Speaker 7: So.
12:48
Speaker 5: You know, I think for.
12:49
Speaker 6: The foreseeable future, we've seen, you know, peak bank dividends
12:53
Speaker 6: for the next little while and we'll.
12:54
Speaker 5: See what happens.
12:55
Speaker 1: And self-funded retirees, many of them rely on dividends like that.
12:59
Speaker 6: Well, they rely on the banks. They're such a cornerstone
13:01
Speaker 6: for self-managed funds and superannuation funds in general. And so
13:06
Speaker 6: if they come off, then that'll be dire.
13:10
Speaker 1: You're also saying that essentially rent is a collateral damage.
13:13
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole reason the Albanese government, you know,
13:16
Speaker 1: made these tax changes is to try and encourage young
13:19
Speaker 1: first home buyers to get a foot in the door
13:22
Speaker 1: to be able to buy their first home. But that's
13:24
Speaker 1: not what we've seen.
13:25
Speaker 6: Well, I'd say it's probably the most unachievable it's ever been.
13:29
Speaker 6: So the very people the government states they want to
13:31
Speaker 6: help are the people who have got to move out
13:34
Speaker 6: of renting properties into home ownership. And it's become increasingly difficult.
13:38
Speaker 6: And we've seen this through the cycles that Those people
13:41
Speaker 6: that have houses to rent out, they're pushing the rents up.
13:44
Speaker 6: And so it's going to put less money in the
13:46
Speaker 6: pockets of those people who need to save.
13:48
Speaker 5: For a deposit.
13:49
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just basic economics 101, isn't it? That
13:52
Speaker 1: if you're taking away a benefit from a landlord, from
13:55
Speaker 1: a property investor, then they're going to pass it on
13:57
Speaker 1: to the renters. The government should have foreseen this.
13:59
Speaker 6: Well, I think the tax changes, though, that have been
14:01
Speaker 6: outlined will mean that those who have negatively geared properties
14:05
Speaker 6: won't sell those properties now. So they're grandfathered. So you're
14:08
Speaker 6: creating a situation where If you've got a place, you
14:11
Speaker 6: won't sell it. And the cost of building a new
14:13
Speaker 6: place is really prohibitive at the moment. Supply chains are
14:17
Speaker 6: through the roof.
14:18
Speaker 1: Right. So you're actually getting less property turnover because the
14:21
Speaker 1: investors aren't selling their properties that are negatively geared. Of
14:25
Speaker 1: course not. They want to hold on to that benefit.
14:27
Speaker 6: They're grandfathers.
14:27
Speaker 5: So why would you sell?
14:30
Speaker 1: I mean, Paul Keating and Bob Hawke ended up bringing
14:32
Speaker 1: back negative gearing two years after they made the changes
14:36
Speaker 1: because it... you know, caused a rental price surge and
14:39
Speaker 1: a housing shortage as well. Do you think the current
14:43
Speaker 1: government should also reverse costs now that they've seen how
14:47
Speaker 1: this is playing out?
14:49
Speaker 6: Look, I think they should. And, you know, I think
14:52
Speaker 6: it's best they take it on the chin and then decide,
14:54
Speaker 6: you know, to reverse those changes. Because even though the
14:58
Speaker 6: cost of property is high, we have one of the
15:01
Speaker 6: best bank systems in the world. We've got one of
15:03
Speaker 6: the most robust property markets in the world. And if
15:07
Speaker 6: the value of houses are increasing, then everyone wins.
15:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. No one wants their biggest asset, which it
15:14
Speaker 1: is for most families, to decline. Hamish, I want to
15:17
Speaker 1: play you these comments that Housing Minister Claire O'Neill made
15:19
Speaker 1: in Parliament today. I really was surprised. I thought they
15:22
Speaker 1: were extraordinary. Let's have a look at them.
15:26
Speaker 8: House prices are softening across the country, Speaker. This is
15:29
Speaker 8: the fourth time that we have seen this occur in
15:32
Speaker 8: a decade in our country. Now, I'm asked about the
15:35
Speaker 8: role that the tax changes have played in this. And, Speaker,
15:38
Speaker 8: the government could not have been more transparent about this
15:41
Speaker 8: in the federal budget.
15:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable. So she's saying there that this drop has
15:47
Speaker 1: occurred four times in the past decade. I mean, you
15:50
Speaker 1: said at the start of this interview that you've been
15:52
Speaker 1: chair of REA for 14 years. Has this happened four
15:55
Speaker 1: times in the past decade?
15:57
Speaker 6: I beg to differ with the Minister. So I think
15:59
Speaker 6: we're seeing a huge change in terms of confidence. The
16:03
Speaker 6: goalposts have been moved. And don't forget, governments are going
16:06
Speaker 6: to earn less in terms of tax revenue if houses
16:09
Speaker 6: aren't getting turned over. So I do beg to differ.
16:12
Speaker 1: The second thing she said there as well, that basically
16:15
Speaker 1: they were upfront about this in the budget. Were they?
16:19
Speaker 6: Many Australians were quite surprised by the changes that came through.
16:22
Speaker 1: And, in fact, the Treasury modelling shows that they only
16:25
Speaker 1: forecast a fall in growth of 2%. And yet we're
16:29
Speaker 1: seeing forecasts from the big banks of between 10% and 18%.
16:32
Speaker 1: While rents are going up. So they didn't see this
16:38
Speaker 1: in the budget. They didn't warn people.
16:40
Speaker 6: I think they've been surprised.
16:42
Speaker 9: Yeah.
16:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. Hamish, thank you so much for coming on.
16:45
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it.
16:46
Speaker 5: Thank you.
16:46
Speaker 1: Thank you. All right. Well, let's move on now to
16:52
Speaker 1: our panel tonight. And, well, actually, first we'll get some
16:56
Speaker 1: breaking news. We've got some breaking news coming out of
16:58
Speaker 1: Bonneau Junction this evening. At about 4.15pm today, police were
17:02
Speaker 1: called to a shopping centre on Oxford Street, Bonneau Junction,
17:05
Speaker 1: that's the Westfield Shopping Centre, after reports of a person
17:08
Speaker 1: potentially armed with a weapon. This is the police statement
17:12
Speaker 1: that has been released to us that I'm reading you now.
17:15
Speaker 1: Officers attached to Eastern Suburbs Police Area Command attended and
17:19
Speaker 1: were told that two teenage boys, both aged 14, got
17:23
Speaker 1: into an argument before one of the boys threatened the
17:26
Speaker 1: other with a weapon and ran from the scene. Police
17:29
Speaker 1: say no injuries were reported. Following a search of the area,
17:33
Speaker 1: the 14-year-old boy was arrested and a baton was seized.
17:38
Speaker 1: So we'll bring you more details as we get them.
17:42
Speaker 1: But let's turn to superannuation now. This has become a
17:44
Speaker 1: major political issue today after One Nation announced its plan
17:48
Speaker 1: to unlock retirement savings for renters and mortgage holders.
17:53
Speaker 10: The superannuation will continue to be put into the super.
17:57
Speaker 1: Fund by the employer.
18:00
Speaker 10: And those people that are working, are renters or paying
18:05
Speaker 10: a mortgage, will, by choice, can apply to their superannuation
18:10
Speaker 10: fund to withdraw up to 3%, one quarter of their superannuation,
18:15
Speaker 10: moving forward. So that's not anything previously. It will be
18:20
Speaker 10: only that moving forward for three years.
18:24
Speaker 1: The policy is already being criticised by lobby groups, the
18:27
Speaker 1: Albanese government and some Liberals. And joining me for more
18:31
Speaker 1: is my panel, New South Wales One Nation leader Mike
18:34
Speaker 1: Newman and former Speaker of the House, Bronwyn Bishop. Terrific
18:37
Speaker 1: to see you both. Bronwyn, I'm going to start with
18:40
Speaker 1: you on this. I personally don't think this is a
18:43
Speaker 1: good idea. I think Labor has broken the housing market.
18:46
Speaker 1: So don't break the super system to fix their broken problem.
18:49
Speaker 1: Just address the source of the problem, the core of
18:52
Speaker 1: the problem, which is the tax changes. What do you think?
18:55
Speaker 7: Well, the tax changes are a disaster. But I think
18:59
Speaker 7: this policy that One Nation has come out with is
19:02
Speaker 7: quite attractive for people. It's done two quite clever things. One,
19:07
Speaker 7: it has made the point that that this money is
19:10
Speaker 7: individual taxpayers' money, not the government's money. And secondly, it
19:16
Speaker 7: has involved both renters and mortgage payers, two-thirds of everyone.
19:22
Speaker 7: So I think it's going to have quite an appeal.
19:26
Speaker 7: I think the misinformation that's come out by charmers saying
19:32
Speaker 7: that they want to attack the super system.
19:35
Speaker 5: Is just rubbish. This is.
19:37
Speaker 7: 3% of the 12% that's put in over a three-year period.
19:43
Speaker 5: That's doable.
19:44
Speaker 7: So I don't buy the arguments that says it's highly inflationary.
19:51
Speaker 7: because if you've got a rental commitment to pay or
19:56
Speaker 7: you've got a mortgage commitment to pay, that's where the
19:59
Speaker 7: money's going to go. It's not going to be out
20:02
Speaker 7: there being spent on everything else. So I think people
20:05
Speaker 7: will find it quite attractive.
20:07
Speaker 1: Look, I agree with you that it'll be a very
20:09
Speaker 1: popular policy. I just personally don't think it's a great idea. Mike,
20:14
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there's a housing crisis at the moment.
20:17
Speaker 1: There's a housing supply shortage. But why not address that
20:21
Speaker 1: issue instead of letting people, you know, causing another problem
20:25
Speaker 1: down the track where people will have less retirement savings?
20:29
Speaker 5: Well, Shari, thanks.
20:30
Speaker 9: And I do reiterate a lot of what Bronwyn just said. Look,
20:35
Speaker 9: superannuation is... If the system was working in the economy,
20:39
Speaker 9: there would be no need to go for superannuation. But
20:42
Speaker 9: the problem is, is this government has made so many
20:44
Speaker 9: failures that superannuation is just one method. We're saying that
20:49
Speaker 9: people have a choice, and that's the important word here,
20:52
Speaker 9: choice to take out part of their super to make
20:56
Speaker 9: ends meet.
20:56
Speaker 11: And I think Brahman made the point, and I agree
20:58
Speaker 11: with her, is that People are not going to then
21:01
Speaker 11: go and.
21:01
Speaker 9: Buy TVs and new cars and whatnot with this money.
21:04
Speaker 9: It'll be people who have a choice who think that
21:06
Speaker 9: it's a serious deployment of capital to help their current
21:10
Speaker 9: circumstances of which this government has put them in.
21:13
Speaker 11: And I might say that when you.
21:14
Speaker 9: Look at superannuation more broadly, how many times has this
21:18
Speaker 9: Labor government sort of thought it is their money to
21:20
Speaker 9: slush on certain areas like renewable energy?
21:23
Speaker 11: And this is the thing. If it's our money, we.
21:26
Speaker 9: Should have access and I think we should put more
21:28
Speaker 9: responsibility on the people who actually own that money to
21:30
Speaker 9: deploy it how they see fit.
21:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a major problem that the Albanese
21:37
Speaker 1: government is starting to direct super funds into, you know,
21:41
Speaker 1: which areas it can invest in, which aren't necessarily the
21:44
Speaker 1: ones that would have the greatest returns, Bronwyn. It's their
21:47
Speaker 1: pet project. It's housing or green projects.
21:51
Speaker 7: The point is that at the moment they are obliged...
21:54
Speaker 7: to invest the money for the best interest of the
21:57
Speaker 7: people who are the beneficiaries. That's what Chalmers wants to change.
22:00
Speaker 5: Yeah.
22:01
Speaker 7: Regarded as a national asset. So he's out to steal
22:04
Speaker 7: your money.
22:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Mike, those changes would be no good, right? No.
22:09
Speaker 9: Well, ironically, you know, Chalmers was saying that One Nation's
22:12
Speaker 9: stealing their money. I think that's actually individual superannuation holders
22:17
Speaker 9: stealing their own money.
22:18
Speaker 11: I don't see any issue with that. And I would
22:19
Speaker 11: point out that.
22:20
Speaker 9: In the United States, this became a very contentious issue
22:23
Speaker 9: where many I guess, Republican states fought back against 401k,
22:28
Speaker 9: saying that any monies that were put towards green projects,
22:32
Speaker 9: which weren't in the best interest of shareholders or superannuation
22:36
Speaker 9: holders or their equivalents, would be illegal. And you saw
22:39
Speaker 9: a lot of these funds back down and move away
22:41
Speaker 9: from this type of investment.
22:44
Speaker 1: Look, big story in The Australian today by Jamie Walker,
22:46
Speaker 1: that One Nation's captain's pick in Victoria, Wayne Pickering, was
22:50
Speaker 1: accused of being a previous ice user. Pickering denies the allegations.
22:55
Speaker 1: They've been made by his former partner and both Pauline
22:58
Speaker 1: Hanson and Deputy Barnaby Joyce refused to comment on it today.
23:02
Speaker 1: Have a look. I have nothing more to add to it.
23:05
Speaker 10: I told you it is a personal matter and I
23:08
Speaker 10: have nothing more.
23:09
Speaker 1: To add to it.
23:10
Speaker 12: Let's first of all say it's contested.
23:12
Speaker 5: It's not.
23:13
Speaker 12: I know everybody's going to be very succinct in saying
23:15
Speaker 12: the word allegation before it's contested because otherwise we ended
23:19
Speaker 12: up in all sorts of problems. And remember, subsequent to that,
23:22
Speaker 12: he was enlisted and served in the Australian Defence Force. Obviously,
23:26
Speaker 12: he managed to serve our nation. And the other thing,
23:29
Speaker 12: it's like we're talking about something 20 years ago.
23:31
Speaker 1: OK, Michael, I want to start with you on this.
23:34
Speaker 1: I mean, this raises questions about what One Nation knew
23:37
Speaker 1: about these allegations and when, but also whether the party's
23:41
Speaker 1: properly vetting its candidates. Are you worried about this?
23:45
Speaker 5: Personally, no.
23:46
Speaker 9: What someone did 15 years ago is what happened 15
23:50
Speaker 9: years ago. And let's face it, the person running the
23:52
Speaker 9: New South Wales Public Service is also convicted of a
23:56
Speaker 9: crime and he's risen to the top.
23:58
Speaker 11: So people can be redeemed.
24:00
Speaker 9: And I would point out that really more important things
24:03
Speaker 9: the media should be focused on are where $ 15 billion
24:06
Speaker 9: has gone missing in Victoria and all of the other
24:08
Speaker 9: problems that the Labor government there has vetted out on
24:11
Speaker 9: the people.
24:12
Speaker 11: Of Victoria, including shooting them with rubber bullets.
24:14
Speaker 9: So I think, you know, really, you know, I don't
24:17
Speaker 9: really have any comment further on Warren Pickering other than
24:20
Speaker 9: to say that, you know, we think he is still
24:23
Speaker 9: a very good candidate for that seat of Victoria and
24:25
Speaker 9: that will be up to the voters to decide on
24:27
Speaker 9: election day.
24:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's Wayne Pickering, isn't it? Not Warren?
24:33
Speaker 5: Oh, sorry, did I say Warren?
24:34
Speaker 1: Sorry, Wayne. One of us has got it wrong.
24:37
Speaker 5: It's Warren.
24:38
Speaker 1: It's Warren. It's Warren. I've got it wrong there. Bronwyn,
24:42
Speaker 1: do you think there is a concern? I mean, we're
24:44
Speaker 1: starting to see more allegations. This isn't the first time
24:47
Speaker 1: a One Nations candidate has been in the paper. Do
24:49
Speaker 1: you have concern about just how they are vetting their candidates?
24:54
Speaker 7: Well, the amount of time I sat in the parliament,
24:57
Speaker 7: I saw both parties have people who went to jail
25:01
Speaker 7: for various offences, which doesn't please me at all. So
25:05
Speaker 7: it's not something that's... limited to one, but it doesn't
25:09
Speaker 7: help One Nation because there's been a few that have
25:12
Speaker 7: fallen by the wayside. However, I think it's likely to
25:15
Speaker 7: fall into two camps. Those people who like One Nation
25:19
Speaker 7: will say, here they go again. And the people who
25:23
Speaker 7: want to find something to attack One Nation, they'll pick
25:27
Speaker 7: it up as being a great moral outrage. I don't
25:30
Speaker 7: think it will move the goalposts much or move the
25:34
Speaker 7: intention of voting much.
25:36
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an interesting point that you make, Bronwyn, because, Mike,
25:39
Speaker 1: I mean, you've just been made the leader of One
25:42
Speaker 1: Nation in New South Wales. And do you get the
25:44
Speaker 1: sense that it doesn't matter what scandal erupts, there is
25:48
Speaker 1: a section of the population that just are firmly behind.
25:51
Speaker 1: They love Pauline Hanson.
25:54
Speaker 9: Well, look, the people I meet, I often talk about
25:58
Speaker 9: my orange One Nation ute where people, you know, honk
26:00
Speaker 9: and toot.
26:01
Speaker 11: And raise their hand and thumbs and thumbs up. There
26:05
Speaker 11: is a groundswell. And I just think the Australian public
26:08
Speaker 11: is just over this.
26:10
Speaker 1: Right.
26:10
Speaker 11: I mean, it was the same when, you.
26:11
Speaker 9: Know, the deplorables moment and then there was the infamous
26:14
Speaker 9: grab them by the incident of Trump. And I always
26:18
Speaker 9: said to people that was on the ballot. People can
26:22
Speaker 9: judge it how they wish. But the thing is.
26:24
Speaker 11: Australians are suffering under massive cost of living pressures.
26:27
Speaker 9: And that's what they want, you know, the politicians to
26:31
Speaker 9: focus on to fix.
26:32
Speaker 11: And that's what we're about.
26:33
Speaker 9: And my job in New South Wales is to offer
26:36
Speaker 9: something completely different what we've seen in politics for the
26:39
Speaker 9: last several decades.
26:40
Speaker 11: And that's what I am totally focused on.
26:44
Speaker 1: I mean, Bronwyn, it must make you sad to see
26:46
Speaker 1: that the Liberal Party is not cutting through. But, I mean,
26:48
Speaker 1: you take an issue like the comments of ASIO boss
26:51
Speaker 1: Mike Burgess. Leading my show tonight was prominent on Credlin's,
26:55
Speaker 1: leading Chris Kenny's. The Coalition didn't even raise it in
26:57
Speaker 1: Question Time today.
26:58
Speaker 7: I couldn't believe that. I did watch part of Question
27:02
Speaker 7: Time and I thought it was a huge issue that
27:05
Speaker 7: should have been raised because it bears directly on the
27:09
Speaker 7: moral leadership of the government. They have lost, I think,
27:15
Speaker 7: any right to have the Australian people believe in anything
27:19
Speaker 7: they say at all. And I think that there was
27:22
Speaker 7: an opportunity for the opposition today to ram that point home.
27:26
Speaker 1: And they didn't touch it.
27:26
Speaker 7: And they didn't.
27:27
Speaker 1: Disappointing. Bronwyn Bishop, Mike Newman, thank you both so much
27:31
Speaker 1: for being here.
27:32
Speaker 11: Thank you.
27:33
Speaker 1: All right, still to come, Dave Sharma on that story
27:36
Speaker 1: and the Albanese government's lack of action after ASIO's urgent warnings.
27:40
Speaker 1: And why won't Michelle Rowland sign off on the paperwork
27:43
Speaker 1: to catch criminal bosses offshore? Ray Hadley is here after
27:47
Speaker 1: the break. Well, Veterans Affairs Minister Matt Keogh was accused
27:54
Speaker 1: of treating veterans with contempt and disrespect during a meeting
27:59
Speaker 1: about their health services. Well, that was last month, and
28:02
Speaker 1: now in a powerful protest, veterans laid down their medals
28:05
Speaker 1: in front of Parliament to send a message. Fair Care
28:09
Speaker 1: for Veterans spokesman John Armfield said, We ask them to
28:13
Speaker 1: surrender freedoms that other Australians take for granted. In return,
28:17
Speaker 1: there's always been an implicit promise. If your service breaks you,
28:22
Speaker 1: your country will not abandon you. Powerful words. And joining
28:27
Speaker 1: me now, veteran broadcaster Ray Hadley. Ray, good to see
28:30
Speaker 1: you again.
28:31
Speaker 5: Good to see you.
28:31
Speaker 13: It makes me sick to the stomach, sick to the
28:34
Speaker 13: stomach to think this federal government, or Matt Keogh in particular,
28:38
Speaker 13: is deserting those who most need, men and women who served.
28:43
Speaker 13: I mean, it's not that difficult. We're spending billions of
28:46
Speaker 13: dollars on a whole range of other fronts.
28:48
Speaker 1: Especially when you consider they spent a reported $ 300 million
28:53
Speaker 1: pursuing Ben Robert Smith.
28:55
Speaker 13: It's just catastrophic. I mean, and the symbolism of putting
28:59
Speaker 13: their medals down. I mean, these are people that have
29:03
Speaker 13: served the nation. They should be treasured, not treated like trash.
29:08
Speaker 13: And that's what's happening. And there's apparently no intention of
29:12
Speaker 13: the Prime Minister to reverse the decision in relation to this.
29:16
Speaker 1: And it is up to him. I mean, I know
29:17
Speaker 1: you're right to blame Matt Keogh because his behaviour has
29:20
Speaker 1: been disgraceful, his personal behaviour. But ultimately, the Prime Minister
29:25
Speaker 1: could intervene. Of course he could. He chooses not to.
29:27
Speaker 5: Matt Keogh wouldn't meet with them.
29:29
Speaker 13: Had to be, you know, carried kicking and screaming to
29:31
Speaker 13: a meeting with these people. And the Prime Minister should
29:34
Speaker 13: do the honourable thing and say, look, this was a
29:36
Speaker 13: terrible mistake we've made. We've greatly offended some very important people.
29:40
Speaker 13: in our lives and we need to rectify it immediately.
29:43
Speaker 6: Yep.
29:45
Speaker 1: I want to turn to the gang wars in New
29:47
Speaker 1: South Wales. This has been a massive... Story, massive issue,
29:51
Speaker 1: a huge crime wave over the past couple of months. Now,
29:54
Speaker 1: the Premier, Chris Minns, is cracking down on this. He's
29:56
Speaker 1: announced a range of measures to, you know, crack down
30:00
Speaker 1: on these criminal networks. I mean, this really blew up
30:02
Speaker 1: as a political issue when he was in India last week. So,
30:05
Speaker 1: on your screen now, you can see what he's announced.
30:07
Speaker 1: Live sentences for people caught conspiring to commit gang-related murder,
30:11
Speaker 1: giving the police powers to restrict... a suspected criminal's access
30:15
Speaker 1: to technology and allowing young people caught up in gang
30:18
Speaker 1: activity to be charged as adults.
30:21
Speaker 13: You can't con me, I'm sorry. I like Chris Minns,
30:24
Speaker 13: I've said that before. He's doing his level best to
30:26
Speaker 13: try and arrest this wave of insanity across parts of Sydney.
30:31
Speaker 13: But you see, all those measures you're talking about, we
30:34
Speaker 13: already have maximum penalties in place for murder.
30:38
Speaker 5: We don't have mandatory minimums, Shari. And there isn't a
30:41
Speaker 5: politician in mainstream.
30:43
Speaker 13: politics in New South Wales, let alone other states and territories,
30:46
Speaker 13: with the gumption or the guts to actually say, we're
30:49
Speaker 13: going to make this mandatory minimum. Because, look, at the
30:53
Speaker 13: moment in New South Wales, there is a maximum penalty
30:56
Speaker 13: for manslaughter of 25 years.
30:58
Speaker 5: And it's been in place for a number of years.
31:00
Speaker 5: I'll tell you how.
31:01
Speaker 13: Many people have been sentenced to 25 years for manslaughter.
31:03
Speaker 1: Tell me.
31:04
Speaker 5: None.
31:05
Speaker 1: You're joking.
31:06
Speaker 5: Not one person.
31:07
Speaker 13: You see, because the judicial system is such that you
31:11
Speaker 13: get a discount 25% for pleading guilty for a start,
31:14
Speaker 13: and then you get this discount and that discount and
31:17
Speaker 13: that discount, then there are sentencing guidelines. And then, whether
31:21
Speaker 13: you're a district court judge or a Supreme Court judge,
31:24
Speaker 13: you then go within those sentencing guidelines. And if you
31:27
Speaker 13: give something that's excessive, as many judges have in the past,
31:30
Speaker 13: the most reputable one I can think of is Paul Conlon,
31:33
Speaker 13: he gets appealed.
31:34
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
31:35
Speaker 13: And then the judges above him say, oh, no, that
31:38
Speaker 13: doesn't fit in with the other sentencing of other people
31:40
Speaker 13: for comparable acts in the past.
31:42
Speaker 1: And all this is worse in Victoria, by the way.
31:44
Speaker 5: Oh, of course.
31:45
Speaker 13: Well, people in Victoria would shake their heads in agreement.
31:47
Speaker 13: But you see, the problem is, and by the way, Chris,
31:52
Speaker 13: to his credit, is announcing it. It's got to go
31:54
Speaker 13: through Parliament yet. I mean, it's one thing to announce it.
31:57
Speaker 13: He's still got the first suite of laws that he
31:59
Speaker 13: wanted to change sitting in Parliament at the moment because
32:02
Speaker 13: he's got a hostile upper house and that hasn't gone through.
32:06
Speaker 13: And then you've got Sue Higginson from the Greens saying, oh.
32:08
Speaker 5: This is dreadful. This is dreadful.
32:10
Speaker 13: Well, I'd say to Sue, you know, a respected Greens politician,
32:14
Speaker 13: they come banging on your door and shoot someone by mistake,
32:17
Speaker 13: as they've done twice in Sydney over the last week.
32:19
Speaker 13: I think you might change your opinion. But I'm sorry
32:23
Speaker 13: to be, you know... Debbie Downer about, you know, these
32:27
Speaker 13: new laws, if they are enacted, but they won't work
32:31
Speaker 13: because we've already got laws in place. But the judiciary say, no,
32:34
Speaker 13: you know, that's a maximum sentence. There's no mandatory minimum
32:39
Speaker 13: for any of these issues.
32:41
Speaker 1: Allowing young people, though, to be sentenced as adults, that's
32:45
Speaker 1: got to help. That's got to work.
32:47
Speaker 5: They've got to get it through Parliament, yes, and for
32:50
Speaker 5: these people.
32:50
Speaker 1: You presume the Liberals will support this.
32:52
Speaker 13: One would assume so, but you couldn't always be sure.
32:54
Speaker 5: Maybe we'll ask Ellie Sloan tomorrow.
32:56
Speaker 13: The bottom line is that, you know, in terms of
33:00
Speaker 13: law and order, there's a lot of law.
33:02
Speaker 5: Not much order.
33:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And the other part to this, Ray, this
33:06
Speaker 1: is front page of the Sunday Telegraph yesterday, the fact
33:10
Speaker 1: that cops are finding it very difficult getting the paperwork
33:14
Speaker 1: through the Attorney-General Michelle Rowland's office to actually deal with
33:19
Speaker 1: these criminal bosses offshore.
33:20
Speaker 5: Well, this is a federal issue. This is a federal issue.
33:23
Speaker 5: It's about extradition.
33:25
Speaker 13: And under the current system, we don't extradite from nations
33:29
Speaker 13: or we don't have agreements where there is a death
33:31
Speaker 13: penalty in place.
33:32
Speaker 5: We don't do it.
33:33
Speaker 13: And these red notices, and when you've got senior police
33:37
Speaker 13: officers in all jurisdictions, be it New.
33:40
Speaker 5: South Wales, Queensland, Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia.
33:43
Speaker 13: And the rest, saying there are people we want back here,
33:48
Speaker 13: you know, and there will be cooperation internationally. We've seen
33:51
Speaker 13: even with Iran recently about someone being incarcerated over there.
33:54
Speaker 13: We'll get cooperation because, you know, they also have law
33:57
Speaker 13: enforcement and Iraq as well. And, yeah, those are places
34:01
Speaker 13: you wouldn't normally expect. Lebanon has no extradition. That's why
34:04
Speaker 13: that John De Cephas is currently over there at the moment.
34:06
Speaker 13: But Michelle Rowland's had these on the desk, but it's
34:09
Speaker 13: the left of the federal Labor government saying, oh, hang
34:12
Speaker 13: on a sec, you know, if there's a, a treaty
34:15
Speaker 13: with those people, they actually kill people.
34:17
Speaker 1: You might sentence them to the death penalty. But look
34:20
Speaker 1: at all these people who are being killed in cases
34:23
Speaker 1: of mistaken identity.
34:24
Speaker 13: It should be a lot easier to bring these people to,
34:27
Speaker 13: you know, issue the Red Notice paperwork and bring them, hopefully,
34:30
Speaker 13: back to Australia when they are in a nation that
34:32
Speaker 13: does have some sort of treaty with us to return
34:34
Speaker 13: them to Australia.
34:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
34:36
Speaker 1: Just finally, so I didn't think this was a particularly
34:39
Speaker 1: interesting story, but you've set me straight, Ray, because you've
34:42
Speaker 1: told me what this is really about, which I didn't know.
34:45
Speaker 1: So the mayor of New South Wales, I don't know why.
34:48
Speaker 5: She's been the mayor for so long.
34:50
Speaker 1: This is too long. Clover Moore, $ 150 million plan to
34:53
Speaker 1: develop Town Hall Square. And I thought, why does Ray
34:56
Speaker 1: want to talk about this? This is boring. Tell me why.
34:58
Speaker 13: Well, because at the moment, outside the town hall, if
35:01
Speaker 13: you come to Sydney, it's a beautiful building next to
35:03
Speaker 13: the Queen Victoria building, wonderful part of Sydney.
35:06
Speaker 5: Over on one corner is the Woolies store that's been
35:08
Speaker 5: there forever. Yep.
35:09
Speaker 13: People have been going there to that cafeteria years and
35:12
Speaker 13: years ago and now they go shopping there.
35:14
Speaker 5: It employs a lot of people who travel a long distance.
35:16
Speaker 5: She wants to knock it all base over Apex. base
35:19
Speaker 5: over apex and make it a big open area. You
35:22
Speaker 5: know what's going to happen?
35:23
Speaker 1: Tell me.
35:24
Speaker 5: Protest after protest.
35:26
Speaker 13: So instead of having the people we have there now
35:29
Speaker 13: in numbers, you know, up to 100, I guess, there'll
35:32
Speaker 13: be thousands of them because there'll be all this open
35:34
Speaker 13: space for them to go and protest about the most
35:36
Speaker 13: inane things. It's just changing the fabric of the centre
35:42
Speaker 13: part of our city where those streets meet, park.
35:45
Speaker 5: And pit open. and drew it on the other side.
35:47
Speaker 1: Is she going to get away with this?
35:48
Speaker 13: Well, Chris Mintz has no power to stop her. He
35:50
Speaker 13: doesn't want her to do it. But, you know, she's
35:53
Speaker 13: close to retirement, I would think, as Lord Mayor.
35:56
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been praying she's close to retirement for
35:58
Speaker 1: a decade now.
36:00
Speaker 13: By the way, the unions are opposed as well. So
36:03
Speaker 13: she's going to have a bit of a battle with
36:05
Speaker 13: the unions.
36:05
Speaker 1: Let's hope it doesn't get there. There's a last thing.
36:07
Speaker 1: We need more space for protesters. Can we have less
36:09
Speaker 1: space for the protesters?
36:10
Speaker 5: Now you know why I wanted to talk about it.
36:12
Speaker 7: I know.
36:12
Speaker 1: I thought, what is going on with Ray? This boring story.
36:14
Speaker 1: Great story. Ray, love to see you. Thank you.
36:17
Speaker 5: See you next week. Bye-bye.
36:19
Speaker 1: Well, coming up, shocking footage showing an Amazon plane veering
36:22
Speaker 1: off a runway and bursting into flames in Florida. We'll
36:26
Speaker 1: come to that a bit later. Plus, Dave Sharma gives
36:28
Speaker 1: his view on the extraordinary comments of the ASIO spy chief.
36:32
Speaker 1: That's next. Welcome back. Well, Coalition figures have tonight expressed
36:40
Speaker 1: dismay after ASIO Director-General Mike Burgess told Alex Rivchin and
36:44
Speaker 1: I in an interview for our book... that his warnings
36:47
Speaker 1: on anti-Semitism weren't taken up by those in leadership positions.
36:52
Speaker 1: Liberal politician Dan Tiern described his comments as chilling with
36:56
Speaker 1: Chris Kenny and his colleague Phil Thompson told Credlin that
37:00
Speaker 1: Albanese should front the Royal Commission to explain what he
37:04
Speaker 1: did after Burgess raised the terror threat level. We're joining
37:08
Speaker 1: me now to discuss Shadow Assistant Minister for Citizenship and
37:10
Speaker 1: Multicultural Affairs, Dave Sharma, live in Canberra. Dave, great to
37:14
Speaker 1: see you.
37:16
Speaker 5: Look, a little.
37:16
Speaker 1: Earlier on the program, I played Mike Burgess's comments where
37:22
Speaker 1: he made these remarks, you know, that he could have
37:24
Speaker 1: shouted louder, but ultimately it was up to others to
37:27
Speaker 1: take up his call and to take action. What do
37:31
Speaker 1: you think? Do you think this... is a very, you know,
37:35
Speaker 1: very important..... some very important public comments from someone in
37:40
Speaker 1: such a senior position that really goes to the lack
37:43
Speaker 1: of action from both law enforcement and political leaders after
37:48
Speaker 1: that Opera House rally in October 9.
37:52
Speaker 14: I think this is... critical to understanding some of the
37:56
Speaker 14: drivers behind the Bondi terrorist attack. And as I read
38:00
Speaker 14: your interview with Mike Burgess, he said he felt like
38:03
Speaker 14: he was shouting, but others had to take up that call.
38:06
Speaker 14: And he seems to be saying that action was not
38:08
Speaker 14: taken in response to his warnings. Now, if that is true,
38:12
Speaker 14: that is scandalous. I can't be more blunt than that.
38:16
Speaker 14: If a security chief is warning the government of the
38:18
Speaker 14: day that the risk of terrorism is increasing and presumably
38:23
Speaker 14: asking for more resources or more capability to deal with that,
38:26
Speaker 14: and the government does not respond, the government is responsible
38:30
Speaker 14: for that.
38:32
Speaker 1: I mean, Dave, you've personally been more critical of Mike
38:35
Speaker 1: Burgess than I have been. You do think, as I
38:39
Speaker 1: understand it, that the Albanese government does have the overwhelming
38:42
Speaker 1: share of responsibility, but you also have been critical of him.
38:46
Speaker 1: In your submission to the Royal Commission, you've said that
38:48
Speaker 1: he was too slow to act as well.
38:52
Speaker 14: Look, I'd say two things. Firstly, yes, the elected government
38:55
Speaker 14: of the day has primary responsibility here. But ASIO is
38:59
Speaker 14: the agency in charge with protecting the security of Australians.
39:03
Speaker 14: I do think that they were slower than I would
39:06
Speaker 14: have liked to raise the threat level. But I also think,
39:09
Speaker 14: and Mike Burgess's interview with you begs this question, did
39:13
Speaker 14: he actually ask for more resources from the government or
39:18
Speaker 14: Did he say he was equipped to do the job
39:19
Speaker 14: or did he ask for more? If he did and
39:21
Speaker 14: the government said no, that's on the government. If he didn't,
39:24
Speaker 14: that emission belongs to ASIO and that is of a concern.
39:28
Speaker 1: We don't know the private conversations that went on, but
39:31
Speaker 1: we do know that he was publicly, repeatedly sounding the
39:35
Speaker 1: alarm on the threat to life from anti-Semitism, which is
39:39
Speaker 1: effectively the terror threat. So wouldn't it have been up
39:42
Speaker 1: to the government, the Home Affairs Minister, Tony Burke, Dave,
39:46
Speaker 1: to say to him, you've raised the terror threat level
39:48
Speaker 1: and you know, let's put more funding into this issue.
39:52
Speaker 1: What else do you need to fight this issue?
39:56
Speaker 14: Look, that would have been the obvious course of action.
39:59
Speaker 14: And I'd say that if our head of security would
40:04
Speaker 14: publicly call for the government to provide more support or resources,
40:07
Speaker 14: no government of any political persuasion would take the political
40:11
Speaker 14: risk of refusing that support. And I guess my question is,
40:16
Speaker 14: and it's not clear from the interview with you, and
40:18
Speaker 14: I'll have to read the book, Was that position put
40:21
Speaker 14: publicly or privately by ASIO at the time? Now, I
40:26
Speaker 14: think the government should have seen not only ASIO's increase
40:29
Speaker 14: to the threat levels but using its own eyes and
40:31
Speaker 14: ears to see what was happening. They should have been
40:34
Speaker 14: going to the agencies, the AFP, ASIO. State governments are saying...
40:38
Speaker 14: What more do you need? We're concerned you're not equipped
40:41
Speaker 14: to deal with this. What resources can we provide you?
40:44
Speaker 14: This should be our number one national security issue.
40:47
Speaker 11: But there is no.
40:48
Speaker 14: Evidence that the government was doing anything other than playing
40:51
Speaker 14: catch up with this all the time, expressing condolences after attacks,
40:55
Speaker 14: but fundamentally not changing our security posture and not resourcing
40:59
Speaker 14: necessary changes to our security posture.
41:03
Speaker 1: We also interviewed New South Wales Premier Chris Minns for
41:05
Speaker 1: the book. I mean, the book's out a week tomorrow.
41:06
Speaker 1: So we've been doing these interviews over many months. So
41:09
Speaker 1: we're starting to report on them now. Now, Minns said
41:13
Speaker 1: that the policing strategy that allowed that pro-Palestinian rally to
41:16
Speaker 1: move from the town hall to the upper house on
41:18
Speaker 1: October 9th He described it as BS. Well, he said
41:21
Speaker 1: the full word. I'm on air saying BS. And he
41:24
Speaker 1: said it is this approach, you know, this let them
41:27
Speaker 1: let off steam approach. And he said, in his view,
41:30
Speaker 1: it clearly doesn't work. He said at the time he
41:33
Speaker 1: was a new Premier, a baby Premier, and the constant
41:36
Speaker 1: advice he got from police was, that's the way we
41:39
Speaker 1: do it, we marshal protests, we just let them go
41:41
Speaker 1: a few more streets, let them get it out of
41:43
Speaker 1: their system and then they dissipate and there's not a conflict.
41:47
Speaker 5: I mean.
41:48
Speaker 1: Dave, you'd agree with that. Clearly this was the wrong strategy, right?
41:51
Speaker 1: It didn't work.
41:54
Speaker 14: Look, I agree it was the wrong strategy, but I
41:56
Speaker 14: think much as I think Chris Minns has come to
42:00
Speaker 14: the right realisations on these issues, he was very slow
42:03
Speaker 14: to reach those conclusions. I mean, that strategy, the policing
42:06
Speaker 14: strategy that was in place for the Opera House protests
42:09
Speaker 14: was the same policing strategy that allowed protests week after
42:12
Speaker 14: week to disrupt Sydney's CBD and Melbourne's CBD. the same
42:15
Speaker 14: sort of let them let off steam attitude, which I
42:18
Speaker 14: think was wrong and misguided from the start, characterised the
42:21
Speaker 14: New South Wales government and New South Wales policing response
42:24
Speaker 14: for at least the first 18 months after the 7th
42:27
Speaker 14: of October Hamas terrorist attacks. And I think it's good.
42:30
Speaker 14: I think that Chris Minns has reached the right conclusion.
42:32
Speaker 14: But firstly, I don't think he gets a pass because
42:35
Speaker 14: he's just become Premier. I mean, I'm sorry, but he's
42:38
Speaker 14: been a politician and he's paid to take those important
42:40
Speaker 14: decisions and exercise his own judgement. But secondly, I think
42:44
Speaker 14: that error of judgment persisted for some months after those
42:48
Speaker 14: Opera House protests.
42:50
Speaker 1: Just finally, Dave, Labor's preparing to unveil its social media
42:54
Speaker 1: regulations tomorrow. And look, we're reading that they're looking at
42:58
Speaker 1: agreeing to a Greens demand to allow people to opt
43:02
Speaker 1: in to algorithms. You know a lot about this space.
43:05
Speaker 1: Is this a good idea?
43:08
Speaker 14: I'm very sceptical about this idea. I mean, I think
43:10
Speaker 14: the way to think about this is, How would the
43:13
Speaker 14: internet be without a search engine? We all go through
43:15
Speaker 14: the access to the internet through the search engine. Would
43:18
Speaker 14: it still exist?
43:19
Speaker 5: Yes.
43:20
Speaker 14: Would you be able to ever find what you're looking for?
43:22
Speaker 5: No.
43:23
Speaker 14: And algorithms often perform the same role in social media.
43:26
Speaker 14: I know a lot of people throw the word around
43:28
Speaker 14: without having a lot of understanding about what the term means,
43:31
Speaker 14: but they basically help users to navigate social media better. Now,
43:35
Speaker 14: should users have an option to turn it off? I'm
43:38
Speaker 14: OK with that. But the idea that we should be
43:40
Speaker 14: having some sort of button pop up like you get
43:42
Speaker 14: in Europe with cookies, for instance, every time you log
43:45
Speaker 14: into a social media feed, I think would send Australians
43:48
Speaker 14: around the bend.
43:49
Speaker 1: All right. Dave Sharma, great to have you on the
43:51
Speaker 1: show as always. Never short of an opinion. Thank you
43:54
Speaker 1: so much.
43:56
Speaker 5: All right.
43:56
Speaker 1: Still to come, Kosha Guida with the latest on the
43:58
Speaker 1: Lindsay Clancy case, plus pay at home parents. This is
44:02
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's plan to pay working parents. We'll tell you
44:06
Speaker 1: about it after the break. Thanks for tuning in. Well,
44:12
Speaker 1: for more now on the bizarre fandom following child killer
44:16
Speaker 1: Lindsay Clancy, I'm joined by News 24 contributor Kosha Gada. Kosha,
44:19
Speaker 1: I mean, it's unbelievable how the feminists have been supporting
44:23
Speaker 1: Clancy and the prosecution now has a decision about whether
44:27
Speaker 1: to proceed with a retrial. What are the options here?
44:32
Speaker 15: Yes, this story has illuminated so many of us, I think, Shari,
44:36
Speaker 15: with just where we are in the culture, that not
44:38
Speaker 15: only the feminists in the media and the pink shirts,
44:40
Speaker 15: but 11 out of the 12 jurors believe that somebody
44:43
Speaker 15: who strangled her own three kids is not liable, but
44:45
Speaker 15: that one juror held out, did not find that evidence
44:49
Speaker 15: convincing and therefore it's a mistrial. So now the only
44:51
Speaker 15: options in front of them are threefold. Either they retry
44:55
Speaker 15: the case and the DA would have to make that
44:56
Speaker 15: decision to retry the case at exactly the same charges.
45:00
Speaker 1: And it's tricky.
45:00
Speaker 15: Because the jury pool in theory is quite tainted now.
45:04
Speaker 15: Any cast of 12 new jurors that they would draw
45:07
Speaker 15: have been through this dog and pony show over the
45:09
Speaker 15: last several months that we've all been through. The other
45:11
Speaker 15: option is that they retry it on a lesser charge,
45:14
Speaker 15: like second-degree murder or something else that maybe has a
45:17
Speaker 15: different threshold of evidence and maybe a little bit more
45:19
Speaker 15: palatable for a jury to convict her on. Or the
45:22
Speaker 15: third option is they don't try her again, and they
45:24
Speaker 15: enter some sort of plea deal, possibly a lighter prison
45:27
Speaker 15: sentence or nothing at all. I think that's the least likely.
45:30
Speaker 15: There is a lot of interest in retrying this case,
45:32
Speaker 15: but I think there's also a lot of fatigue.
45:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But you just often wonder these days that,
45:37
Speaker 1: you know, there's this moral inversion. You just think the
45:39
Speaker 1: world's upside down. You know, three children were killed. It's unbelievable.
45:43
Speaker 1: I want to turn to this pay-at-home parents plan. Donald
45:46
Speaker 1: Trump reportedly considering giving married couples with a stay-at-home spouse
45:51
Speaker 1: subsidies to help raise children. Koshra, I love this idea.
45:55
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be expensive in terms of government
45:59
Speaker 1: funding or it could simply shift subsidies from the childcare
46:03
Speaker 1: industry to to families. I think that's, you put your
46:07
Speaker 1: finger on what it is. It is quite innovative.
46:10
Speaker 15: And, you know, many sort of fiscal conservatives that are
46:12
Speaker 15: typically of the right and Trump's base, some more establishment-y types,
46:16
Speaker 15: have been criticizing it, that it's yet another government handout
46:19
Speaker 15: or government program, and we're all for small government shrinking
46:22
Speaker 15: their budget and spending. However, I think the newsflash for
46:26
Speaker 15: them is that ship has sailed. Like it or not,
46:28
Speaker 15: we are in a welfare society right now. There are
46:30
Speaker 15: giant social safety programs all across the West. And what
46:33
Speaker 15: he's trying to do is, as you say, shift it
46:35
Speaker 15: to the one constituency, reviving the American family, allowing more
46:39
Speaker 15: families to raise their kids on a comfortable middle class platform.
46:44
Speaker 15: or thereabouts lifestyle on one income, the way it used
46:46
Speaker 15: to be done a generation ago and is just increasingly untenable.
46:50
Speaker 15: He's trying to shift some of the welfare to that.
46:52
Speaker 15: And that's probably certainly as worthy a cause for shoring
46:55
Speaker 15: up and stabilizing the middle class in American society as
46:58
Speaker 15: much as every other welfare recipient that's out there from
47:02
Speaker 15: asylum seekers, refugees to all sorts of programs that we have.
47:05
Speaker 15: Why not do this?
47:06
Speaker 11: Yeah.
47:07
Speaker 1: I think it's the same in Australia. There's, you know,
47:09
Speaker 1: all these childcare subsidies pushing parents into sending your babies
47:13
Speaker 1: off to childcare instead of looking after them yourself if
47:17
Speaker 1: you can. In Florida, an Amazon cargo plane burst into flames.
47:22
Speaker 1: It veered off a runway in Miami. So, Kosha, at
47:24
Speaker 1: least five people have been killed, others injured. What happened?
47:30
Speaker 15: This is still a developing story, but this was a
47:32
Speaker 15: freight plane from Amazon, and it basically overran the runway
47:36
Speaker 15: and went out into a perimeter road beyond the runway.
47:40
Speaker 15: And five people are dead. Others are in critical condition.
47:42
Speaker 15: The authorities haven't released yet details about who those five
47:46
Speaker 15: people are, whether they were people on the plane or
47:49
Speaker 15: other people. Passers-by are people that were collateral damage, unfortunately,
47:53
Speaker 15: on the runway, and it looks like more of the latter. People,
47:56
Speaker 15: workers who were working at the airport field got caught
47:58
Speaker 15: up in this, possibly one or two people on the plane,
48:01
Speaker 15: though that's unclear. Luckily, it was not a passenger plane,
48:04
Speaker 15: so there weren't so many people on there, but it's
48:07
Speaker 15: a wild story, and I think we'll see more in
48:09
Speaker 15: the days and weeks ahead how you can overrun a
48:11
Speaker 15: runway and what led to that. Because they did not
48:13
Speaker 15: declare an emergency or any problem or distress, the pilots,
48:16
Speaker 15: when they landed. They sort of just landed and then
48:18
Speaker 15: just rode right off the runway.
48:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, terrible. I didn't even know Amazon had planes until
48:23
Speaker 1: this story. Now, Washington is alight after the president was
48:27
Speaker 1: snapped seemingly with a new hairdo, apparently somewhat different from
48:32
Speaker 1: his usual locks, if we can bring the pictures up
48:34
Speaker 1: on the screen. What's happened? Has he dyed it here, Koshos?
48:38
Speaker 1: It's just a bad photo.
48:40
Speaker 15: The internet went wild, and I actually had to go
48:43
Speaker 15: and pull it up, Shari, from Getty Images myself, because
48:46
Speaker 15: in this day and age of AI, I just didn't
48:47
Speaker 15: know if it was real in preparation for this. It
48:50
Speaker 15: does seem to be real. I don't know if it's
48:52
Speaker 15: lighting or anything else, or he just got a different
48:54
Speaker 15: hair dye job, which is interesting because he has been
48:57
Speaker 15: famous for that blonde, sort of floppy look that he's
49:01
Speaker 15: had for decades and decades in the public eye, and
49:04
Speaker 15: I guess that's a big part of his signature look,
49:07
Speaker 15: and so it was a It's certainly something that got
49:09
Speaker 15: a lot of attention today if he's decided to go brunette.
49:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure we'll see when he's in the Oval
49:14
Speaker 1: Office for his next press conference. But yeah, it would
49:17
Speaker 1: be unusual if he suddenly changed diet shade. Anyway, big issues, Kosha.
49:23
Speaker 1: Glad to end on the big issues. We'll see you
49:24
Speaker 1: next time. Thanks for your company tonight. I'll see you
49:27
Speaker 1: tomorrow at eight. Here's Paul Murray.