Latest / Discovering Bitcoin / Discovering Bitcoin with Sourcenode

Transcript

Discovering Bitcoin with Sourcenode · Discovering Bitcoin

• 0:00
  If you're discovering Bitcoin in Australia, you don't need
• 0:03
  complexity, you need clarity. Hard block offers simple Bitcoin
• 0:06
  buying flat fees and education that respects your intelligence.
• 0:10
  That's it. I see the world through an
• 0:13
  entirely different lens. It doesn't just give you
• 0:17
  confidence, but it gives you hope.
• 0:22
  Take like we're. Squandering our energy, our life
• 0:24
  force. So Bitcoin is changing that.
• 0:27
  Maybe it's like it's healing energy.
• 0:31
  It gives you a kind of. Of a stand.
• 0:35
  Feeling right? Where alcohol goes deep and deep
• 0:39
  and deep. In the immortal words of the
• 0:42
  doors, the time to hesitate us through.
• 0:47
  Discovering. So snowed.
• 1:11
  What's going on, man? Chilling dude literally walking
• 1:16
  barefoot on snow today. So.
• 1:18
  Barefoot. Yeah, life's good.
• 1:19
  How are you? Yeah, I'm awesome.
• 1:22
  I'm awesome. I've been looking forward to
• 1:25
  this conversation for sure. This is this is going to be fun.
• 1:30
  But you're walking on snow. It wasn't too long ago you were
• 1:35
  like riding on the back of a motorcycle or maybe riding the
• 1:38
  motorcycle. I can't remember what I saw.
• 1:41
  Oh no, we were chatting on Signal anyway.
• 1:45
  In in December I was riding all over Thailand.
• 1:49
  It was hot there, not in here, but.
• 1:53
  You you run in the diamond range, giving it the full
• 1:56
  treatment. Right, there's a there's a big
• 1:59
  Bitcoin scene in in Thailand. Up in Chiang Mai, there's a
• 2:03
  Bitcoin Learning Center with Jimmy Castro.
• 2:05
  It's awesome. Definitely recommend anybody in
• 2:08
  the region go check it out. Yeah, I've, I've, I've looked
• 2:13
  at, at Thailand as like a, you know, one of those places that
• 2:18
  you kind of dream of when you're a bitcoiner that you can kind of
• 2:21
  escape to. And I've been, I've been to
• 2:26
  Thailand. It's, it's a cool, it's a cool
• 2:28
  place. Food's awesome.
• 2:31
  Yes, yeah, it's getting easier and easier to to be there as a
• 2:35
  Bitcoin or two. They've got a service now.
• 2:38
  I forgot what it was called, but basically what it is, is that
• 2:43
  they have these scan payments like AQR payment and you scan it
• 2:48
  on your phone and then somebody, somebody buys Bitcoin from you
• 2:56
  and they pay for whatever you just scanned.
• 2:58
  So it's like a no KYC payment system where you get to pay with
• 3:03
  Bitcoin, they buy Bitcoin no KYC and the vendor has no idea what
• 3:08
  happened. Like they they don't care
• 3:10
  because they got paid. I think I've seen Kelly post
• 3:14
  about this on Nosta. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:17
  I met him actually while I was here, while he was there.
• 3:20
  Super cool guy. Yeah, that's a, that's an
• 3:24
  unreal. That's that is a sly, roundabout
• 3:27
  way, right? Yes, that's sick.
• 3:30
  Yeah, yeah. Are in in Costa Rica, they have
• 3:34
  SIM pay where you just need somebody's phone number and then
• 3:38
  bull Bitcoin deals with it on the back end.
• 3:40
  You pay for it in Bitcoin and then they get colonies.
• 3:43
  So there's not there's lots of sly roundabout ways there will
• 3:46
  be more. I know that floppy created an
• 3:50
  open source version of the same software that could be
• 3:55
  implemented in other countries. I think it's called Pleb pay if
• 3:58
  I remember right. I don't know if that's accurate,
• 4:01
  but anyway, it's a cool solution.
• 4:03
  We're doing it, man. It's happening, you know.
• 4:07
  Oh yeah, it's totally happening. Just got to be patient wherever
• 4:11
  you are or go out and build it if you if you can, you got the
• 4:18
  mean. Yeah, doing a combination of
• 4:19
  that at the moment. So I was scrolling Twitter one
• 4:26
  day, no incorrect. I was scrolling NASA and I came
• 4:35
  across a post by a guy I follow on there called context spelled
• 4:41
  with AK and he he writes. This is just before I actually
• 4:48
  had my drive and he, he mentioned your, your podcast and
• 4:55
  I'm like, and you've got this mandala sort of LED light
• 4:58
  display as the, as the cover. And that looks cool.
• 5:03
  And then I Scroll down a little bit further and shout out to
• 5:08
  Brisket. I see he's commented and I'm
• 5:10
  like, well, if Brisket's commenting, then that's good
• 5:12
  enough for me. So let's give this a listen.
• 5:15
  He's a good. Guy and yeah, I spun it up.
• 5:20
  I had it all saved ready to rumble for my remote 9 hour
• 5:25
  drive and chucked them on and there's like, well, there's 13
• 5:34
  episodes in total, Lucky 13 and man, the holotropic renaissance.
• 5:42
  What a cool experience. What a what a cool.
• 5:46
  I wouldn't even call it a podcast.
• 5:48
  It's it's more like, I mean, you've you've got it as a
• 5:50
  lecture series. Obviously it's available on
• 5:52
  podcast applications, but you go basically from zero, literally
• 5:58
  to 13 and I'll put my hand up and say I'm, I'm, I'm only up to
• 6:04
  episode 10. Things slowed down after drive
• 6:08
  back, but the quality of the production, the script that
• 6:14
  you've written down and a reading through and the way that
• 6:19
  the series unfolds is phenomenal.
• 6:23
  And it's like it it particularly for anyone obviously looking for
• 6:27
  some sort of consciousness expanding experience or insight
• 6:33
  into what it could mean, particularly set within a
• 6:37
  Bitcoin context, which is which is rad.
• 6:41
  And so I'm like, whoa, this is, this is up my, this is up my
• 6:45
  alley. And, and, but you're not even
• 6:48
  just integrating psychedelics. You're, you're talking about
• 6:51
  breath work and meditation. You're giving insight and advice
• 6:57
  about making sure you're set and your setting is correct.
• 7:00
  You know, you at one point, actually, this is what made me
• 7:04
  smile quite a lot. You play a Ramdas clip and I was
• 7:08
  like, well, this is like the series for me.
• 7:10
  And I, I don't know too many Bitcoiners who I quote in Ramdas
• 7:16
  other than myself. So well, let's, I don't know,
• 7:21
  like normally I, I sort of ask about, you know, how to discover
• 7:25
  Bitcoin and I'm, and we'll get there.
• 7:26
  But like, give me the impetus, give me the insight the the
• 7:30
  baseball for this, the series that you put together.
• 7:36
  Yeah. So thank you.
• 7:38
  First of all, really appreciate that.
• 7:40
  And also wanted to mention there was no script.
• 7:44
  That was all just fresh out of my mind.
• 7:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, I did a lot of
• 7:53
  editing. So the editing became the
• 7:55
  script. But I created the series in part
• 8:00
  to help Bitcoiners if they were interested in learning to use
• 8:07
  psychedelics in a a productive and Safeway and also to help
• 8:13
  people who are interested in psychedelics to understand
• 8:17
  Bitcoin and the broader implications of Bitcoin.
• 8:20
  And so some of it is is kind of is just like showing my proof of
• 8:28
  work is explaining like my Bitcoin episode.
• 8:31
  Most bitcoiners will listen to that and they'll say, I know, I
• 8:34
  know, I know. But at the same time it's like,
• 8:37
  OK, this guy actually understands it.
• 8:39
  And then the people that listen to the psychedelics episodes,
• 8:41
  they understand psychedelics are going to say, oh, this guy has
• 8:45
  has experience. He knows what he's talking
• 8:47
  about. And so it, it creates
• 8:49
  credibility on both sides. And, and so the idea is really
• 8:52
  to be this bridge potentially because I think the two
• 8:57
  technologies, if you will, can benefit each other and I can
• 9:01
  make the world a better place in an accelerated manner.
• 9:05
  That's that's why I created it. It was really like the best
• 9:08
  thing I could possibly think of to do at the time, at that time
• 9:12
  in my life. And it was also to clarify my
• 9:16
  own thinking around these topics.
• 9:17
  So there is multifaceted, but the project was really fun.
• 9:21
  It's helped me connect with some really, really cool people that
• 9:24
  have changed my life in ways I didn't even imagine.
• 9:27
  And I anticipate that will probably continue because this
• 9:30
  isn't just a one and done. I I put out one episode per year
• 9:35
  for the last three years. And before that it was like 10
• 9:39
  episodes all at once. And it's really meant to stand
• 9:42
  the the test of time and not to be like that algorithm chasing,
• 9:46
  I have to get an episode out every week kind of thing.
• 9:49
  It's very different from that. So yeah, generally the broad.
• 9:54
  We need more timeless Bitcoin related podcasts in my book.
• 10:01
  You know, that's kind of where I I want discovering Bitcoin to
• 10:04
  sit. We don't have repeat guests.
• 10:06
  We do the out. We will.
• 10:07
  I'd actually don't chase the algorithm.
• 10:09
  I'm probably the laziest. No, we'll refrain that I'm the
• 10:13
  lowest time preference pod in the universe.
• 10:17
  Way better, Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
• 10:19
  There's just so much content out now it's it's impossible to keep
• 10:23
  up with it is and a lot of it's very low signal.
• 10:28
  Same guest on, they do a little little lap, a little victory
• 10:31
  lap, they talk about the same shit.
• 10:33
  They hit the same talking points with the different podcaster And
• 10:37
  look, man, if that's the model, that's the model.
• 10:39
  And, and bully for you. I'm glad it works, you know, but
• 10:44
  it's just, I don't have that much time.
• 10:47
  I've got other things to do, you know.
• 10:50
  Same. But this, you know what, I dug
• 10:54
  so much and and you know, I, I, well, we shield, we shield earth
• 10:59
  mum soap for quite a while. So we can, we can shell this
• 11:01
  part for a minute. The the bells.
• 11:05
  So at the at the introduction, you kind of lay out how the
• 11:09
  series is going to unfold. And then in episode 1, you roll
• 11:13
  into this notion of, of getting in contact with the breath and
• 11:18
  the still point between inhale and exhale.
• 11:22
  Talk about meditation. But you introduce the concept of
• 11:26
  this bell sound in every episode.
• 11:29
  And you mentioned explicitly that it's, it's meant to bring
• 11:32
  you back to the present moment. And and I was driving while I
• 11:37
  was listening to the first probably 8 episodes, maybe 7
• 11:42
  episodes because I was actually going to a Bitcoin meet up.
• 11:46
  And while I was driving, I'm listening to it and the bell was
• 11:50
  bringing me back to the present moment.
• 11:53
  I was already trying to do that anyway, trying to introduce some
• 11:56
  sort of meditative, you know, experience whilst being very
• 12:00
  conscious of the fact that I was driving, you know, at 100
• 12:04
  kilometers an hour on a country back Rd.
• 12:08
  So I'm, I'm being safe everyone. In fact, if anything, I'm, I'm
• 12:11
  like focused more and more on the present moment of the foot
• 12:15
  on the accelerator and hands on the steering wheel.
• 12:18
  But anyway, the bell really was a cool feature of the pod
• 12:24
  because it did, it did exactly what it what it's meant to do.
• 12:29
  It does that like in meditation, we just back to the present
• 12:33
  moment. So that was, that was cool, man.
• 12:38
  Thanks. Yeah, it's it's easy to when two
• 12:41
  people are talking or one person's, especially when one
• 12:43
  person's talking, I would say it's easy to drift off.
• 12:46
  It's easy to kind of get into my own mental world.
• 12:50
  And I know the bell breaks it up, it kind of puts it into sub
• 12:53
  subsections. And and those are singing bowls.
• 12:56
  Those are Tibetan singing bowls that I some of which I have and
• 12:59
  some of which I stole the sounds from the vendor I bought them
• 13:03
  from. So that's where I got them.
• 13:07
  Yeah, it's it's clever, man. It's clever.
• 13:10
  All right. How did you discover Bitcoin?
• 13:15
  Psychedelics. Short answer, I Well, actually
• 13:21
  this guy I knew who was buying psychedelics on the Internet
• 13:26
  told me that there was this thing called Bitcoin and he was
• 13:30
  kind of interested in it. And I said, why would I want
• 13:32
  digital Chuck E Cheese tokens? And I basically left it at that.
• 13:36
  But I did watch the price. I watched it go from $30 to $70,
• 13:40
  like I'm too late. You know, that's, that's more
• 13:43
  than doubled. I, I have investment experience.
• 13:46
  I'm not an idiot, you know, and little did I know that that was
• 13:51
  the worst mistake of my life is not buying Bitcoin after it had
• 13:55
  gone more than double and then it went from $70.00 to $1200 and
• 14:01
  it broke my model of the world. I mean, I just hadn't ever seen
• 14:05
  anything do that ever. I guess nothing ever really had,
• 14:10
  at least in that short period of time.
• 14:12
  But then I sort of forgot about it.
• 14:14
  And then a few years later, I was very determined to try DMT
• 14:19
  and the only way for me to try DMT at the time was to buy it on
• 14:24
  the Internet using Bitcoin. And so that essentially forced
• 14:29
  me to learn how to use Bitcoin in self custody and, and all
• 14:33
  these things. And as a result, I ended up
• 14:37
  holding on to some of that Bitcoin.
• 14:38
  And, and then there was a year where I was a genius shit coin
• 14:41
  trader. And then the year after that I
• 14:44
  read the Bitcoin standard and and pulled my head out of my own
• 14:47
  ass. You did the whole the whole the
• 14:51
  Bitcoin U-turn. Yeah, I guess.
• 14:56
  Yeah, yeah, the Dunning Kruger effect in real time.
• 15:00
  I remember it and I'm going through it again now in in
• 15:04
  Bitcoin relate in relation to gold, realizing that my my
• 15:10
  yardstick for Bitcoin was wrong for for 10 years and now I'm I'm
• 15:15
  reforming my perspective again. Yeah, gold, gold, gold.
• 15:21
  It's having its day in the sun. God bless.
• 15:23
  God bless. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm happy for
• 15:27
  that, definitely. Yeah, look, you can buy a fine
• 15:31
  man's suit now. It cost you 7 grand.
• 15:34
  Well, 5 grand in the USUSD. Yeah, or a cow maybe.
• 15:40
  You know, like that's just the, the, the, the price of a fine
• 15:43
  man's suit or, or a cow is an ounce of gold for Yeah, it's
• 15:51
  getting expensive. Right.
• 15:53
  I'm going to pay my my beef guy $1500 for 1/4.
• 15:58
  So yeah, we're, we're, we're right around the price of gold
• 16:03
  for a whole cow. Brilliant.
• 16:04
  I mean, isn't it brilliant? It seems like Fiat was just a
• 16:09
  little glitch, and now I'm in this perspective where it's
• 16:14
  actually just the gold standard. And then there was like this lie
• 16:17
  that was happening for 150 years or so, and then now we're going
• 16:23
  on to the Bitcoin standard. But the lie is like becoming
• 16:27
  less and less relevant to me. It's kind of fading into the
• 16:29
  background right of my experience, which is beautiful.
• 16:33
  This is the way, Yeah, yeah. It's like a glitch or something,
• 16:37
  something sort of. We just derailed for a moment.
• 16:40
  And the curious thing for me is just, however I'm bought and
• 16:46
  sold it. I mean, yes, OK, 150 years, you
• 16:49
  know, for a human is, is a, is a decent amount of time.
• 16:54
  But you know, and there's, there's people out there that
• 16:57
  just think, well, gosh, I was one of those people, you know,
• 17:00
  like there's money, money, you know, I can fold it up in my
• 17:04
  wallet. I can jangle it around if I need
• 17:07
  to pay for something small and like this show.
• 17:11
  Yeah, This is Money, right? And and it's just a big
• 17:13
  illusion, a big trick. Admire.
• 17:17
  And people are kind of grokking that.
• 17:21
  No, man, this is not so. It's not what money is.
• 17:24
  I mean, even before then, you know, you'd watch like I used to
• 17:27
  watch this documentary series with Mike, I can't remember his
• 17:31
  name, Orange head, dude. And you did like a full on
• 17:34
  series about gold and you know, did hit all the sound money
• 17:39
  talking points on this YouTube lecture series.
• 17:42
  And I remember watching it going well, that's interesting.
• 17:44
  That's but you know, I'm on YouTube and it's full of kooks
• 17:49
  and I don't know if I can trust it, man.
• 17:52
  And so I didn't even didn't even keep going.
• 17:57
  Same. Somebody showed me a video, I
• 18:00
  don't know, maybe it was, gosh, when was that?
• 18:03
  2016 or so? Somewhere around there, they
• 18:06
  showed me a video saying that all money is debt.
• 18:10
  And the guy was kind of eccentric and I just didn't
• 18:12
  really trust him or the video. And I thought it was just some
• 18:16
  weird conspiracy, but I was still in the Matrix and and so I
• 18:19
  couldn't, I couldn't hear what it was saying to me.
• 18:22
  And now it's a, it's just an obvious fact.
• 18:25
  And now when I say it to people, I can see their skepticism of
• 18:28
  what I'm saying. I can see myself in them, you
• 18:32
  know, my older, the older version of myself.
• 18:34
  Like, yeah, I see where you're at.
• 18:35
  And I understand that this sounds crazy, but this is
• 18:38
  exactly what it is. It's just fake.
• 18:40
  It's all fake. It's all fake Fugazi and and you
• 18:46
  know, it takes work. It takes, it kind of takes a
• 18:51
  little bit of inner work really to drop some of that be be be
• 18:57
  willing to sort of move through and entertain the idea.
• 19:00
  OK, cool. Let's start with the
• 19:02
  presupposition that this is fake than what you know, and, and I
• 19:08
  it doesn't happen for all people that way they get various touch
• 19:13
  points from elsewhere. Sometimes, you know, you can
• 19:16
  have a history. I was reading back through from
• 19:18
  old transcripts recently from the pod.
• 19:21
  And like Erik Voskiel, for instance, he just reads the
• 19:24
  white paper and he's like, yeah, OK, that would work.
• 19:27
  I get it, but he had all this pre experience with Charming and
• 19:31
  Ekash and Digi Gold and he was very much in that world.
• 19:36
  But even when he sort of told Bitcoin he's like, yeah, that
• 19:39
  could work. But yeah, I don't know.
• 19:42
  Everyone has the work to do. And this is the cool thing about
• 19:47
  Bitcoin, I think, is it it doesn't compel you to do the
• 19:52
  work, but it will plant a seed and the impulse will grow over
• 19:57
  time. And you just got to tune in, you
• 19:59
  know? Right, Right.
• 20:02
  Yeah. I can't tell you how many times
• 20:04
  I've had a conversation with somebody and they've said I knew
• 20:08
  I should have bought some. You know, it's well, you didn't
• 20:10
  listen to your intuition, which is a lesson in itself.
• 20:15
  Super underrated, the intuition. Super underrated as a concept.
• 20:22
  Yeah, I I've spent a best part of my life cultivating,
• 20:27
  listening to my intuition for good or bad.
• 20:32
  Usually certainly not. This is the thing about Fiat,
• 20:38
  man, is that you listen to your intuition and your intuition
• 20:43
  will be like, why do you want to work in that job with those
• 20:46
  people in that suit and tie and the commute and like getting the
• 20:54
  debt and all that stuff. Like what, why do you want to do
• 20:57
  that? And you're like, well, you
• 20:59
  override it and you rationalize it and you think, well, because
• 21:01
  that's what you have to do. I, I have to do that, you know,
• 21:04
  that's the only way. And Bitcoin just goes, it's cool
• 21:11
  if you, if you want to do that, do it.
• 21:14
  You know, if you don't want to do that, don't do it.
• 21:17
  Just whatever you do, any excess time and energy that you have
• 21:23
  saved up in the form of money, just Chuck it over here.
• 21:27
  I got it. I'll look after it for you.
• 21:30
  Bitcoin doesn't announce itself. It reveals itself.
• 21:33
  Not in the moment you buy, but in the moment you stop thinking
• 21:36
  of it as a trade, start sensing it as a discovery.
• 21:40
  This episode is supported by Hard Block, an Australian
• 21:43
  Bitcoin exchange built for people finding Bitcoin in their
• 21:46
  own time, without pressure, without performance, without
• 21:50
  noise. Hard Block keeps the mechanics
• 21:52
  simple. Flat fees, no spreads, and a
• 21:55
  calm way to stack sats over time with DCA.
• 21:59
  And if you're still listening more than buying, there's a
• 22:01
  quiet place to learn over at learn.hardblock.com dot AU.
• 22:05
  If you've been listening to this pod for a while, you already
• 22:08
  know Bitcoin is something you discover.
• 22:11
  Hard Block helps you do it honestly.
• 22:13
  Use code Discovering Bitcoin all one word for $10 worth of free
• 22:16
  Bitcoin when signing up for a new fully verified account at
• 22:20
  hardblock.com dot AU. Right.
• 22:24
  Yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated.
• 22:27
  And yet it's the most complicated thing I've ever come
• 22:29
  across. And the rabbit hole never ends.
• 22:33
  I would argue it's it's complex, not complicated.
• 22:37
  Fiat is complicated. Bitcoin is complex.
• 22:43
  And the reason I say that is because the universe complexity
• 22:46
  implies elegance and the universe is complex.
• 22:51
  Our bodies are complex, but they're elegant, they're
• 22:53
  beautiful, they make sense. I like that distinction.
• 22:57
  Thank you for that. Yeah.
• 22:59
  Not to be that guy, actually. No, I mean it's not about the
• 23:03
  difference and and it does have a a.
• 23:06
  There is a semantic difference there for sure.
• 23:12
  And like, OK, so you discovered this through psychedelics.
• 23:15
  This obviously informs the creation of the whole Tropic
• 23:19
  renaissance. So maybe unpack that a little
• 23:23
  bit. Take me how do you go from, is
• 23:28
  it just purely psychedelics from this guy getting it, let's say
• 23:31
  on the Silk Road or something like that, or is it I've had a
• 23:36
  consciousness expanding experience and now I Glock
• 23:40
  Bitcoin? It was both.
• 23:44
  It was definitely the two journeys were intertwined in
• 23:48
  such a way where you can't really separate them.
• 23:51
  For me personally, it was like Bitcoin helped me get
• 23:55
  psychedelics. The psychedelics helped me
• 23:58
  understand Bitcoin better and then Bitcoin helped me
• 24:02
  understand economics better. And then the psychedelics kind
• 24:05
  of bolstered that. And it was like back and forth
• 24:08
  and back and forth. And then I saw this guy,
• 24:10
  Christian Angermeyer, like way back had an article like
• 24:15
  psilocybin mushrooms help me understand Bitcoin.
• 24:19
  And he was a billionaire, apparently he's kind of a shit
• 24:24
  coiner, but I'm sure he'll come around eventually.
• 24:26
  And they all do. And yeah, it's just it's it's
• 24:33
  neuroplasticity, right? So in order to even begin to
• 24:38
  grok the significance of what Bitcoin represents, you kind of
• 24:43
  need to breakdown all the structures of what you think
• 24:45
  about the world. Not structures that you created
• 24:49
  intentionally, but structures that were sort of imposed upon
• 24:52
  you by society, which is of course something that
• 24:56
  psychedelics do a lot as well. And I think that the 60s were a
• 25:01
  huge blossoming of that process. At the same time, they don't
• 25:07
  provide any structure or guidance.
• 25:08
  Like psychedelics can kind of leave you in this, well, I'm
• 25:11
  just going to be like a a forest person, you know, and I'm going
• 25:16
  to kind of just walk away from all my responsibilities in a
• 25:22
  Alan Watts ROM Das kind of way. And I think that Bitcoin brings
• 25:27
  in a little bit more structure that can help to coordinate
• 25:30
  people around something that actually matters in the real
• 25:32
  world. It that has some ethos and some
• 25:36
  some ethics baked into it. Yeah.
• 25:41
  And so like the two I think benefit each other.
• 25:44
  I couldn't couldn't agree more talking about I've written about
• 25:49
  this a little bit with respect to Steiner and Hayek coming
• 25:53
  together AS2 incredibly disparate individuals, but each.
• 25:59
  Interesting they knew each. Other No, I don't think so.
• 26:03
  I don't think they were. They certainly weren't
• 26:05
  contemporaries. Oh, you're just comparing their
• 26:08
  thoughts. Yeah, I was, I've been trying to
• 26:11
  think about this for years and, and trying to synthesize these
• 26:17
  notes and shit. But yeah, like and, and you're,
• 26:25
  you're right in the fact that Bitcoin offers some sort of
• 26:29
  ground from which the figure to act upon, I guess in a very
• 26:35
  coherent, coordinated way at scale.
• 26:39
  Everyone can still do the thing. If you still want to go off into
• 26:41
  the forest, you know, if and, and, and walk away from like as
• 26:47
  you, you mentioned with Walt and and, and Alpert, you can do
• 26:53
  that. But you're right, like in the
• 26:57
  fact that Bitcoin can be a really cool focal point to pass
• 27:02
  through and to situate yourself in you.
• 27:06
  You actually mentioned this on the on the on the whole Tropic
• 27:09
  of Renaissance. And I can't remember.
• 27:13
  I think you were referring it to mushrooms or it could have been
• 27:17
  LSD. It could have just was one of
• 27:18
  the psychedelics, but he called it a neutral amplifier of affect
• 27:25
  and. That's yeah, that's a Stan Grof
• 27:28
  quote. Right.
• 27:29
  Well, dude, like that stuck with me for months now because it's
• 27:35
  only been a couple of months since I listened to it.
• 27:40
  But I immediately thought of Bitcoin when I heard that
• 27:44
  because of all of the conversations I've had on this
• 27:48
  pod, which are all about people's personal journeys of
• 27:52
  discovering this thing and how that's affected them over time.
• 27:57
  It is a neutral amplifier of effect, like if you plug
• 28:01
  yourself in and it will just amplify you sort of 10X or
• 28:08
  whatever it is. In fact, I think Ramdas even
• 28:11
  talks about like, if you want to be an enlightened being and
• 28:14
  you're at at base an asshole, well, you'll just be an
• 28:18
  enlightened asshole. And that's cool.
• 28:20
  That's fine, you know. That sounds very Ramdas, yeah.
• 28:27
  But like that's, but if you're a really, if you're a good person
• 28:31
  or you know what, whatever the subjective value you want to
• 28:33
  ascribe to to an individual, to yourself, whatever, that's fine.
• 28:38
  But it's, it's this notion of plugging into a practice,
• 28:45
  plugging into psychedelics, plugging into Bitcoin, which I
• 28:49
  personally think are all incredibly interrelated.
• 28:53
  It will just naturally amplify whatever it is that you are.
• 28:58
  And, and it may even, I don't know, like, yeah, I'm not sure
• 29:05
  where I'm going with this point, but I just really dug that
• 29:08
  quote. And, and I genuinely think that
• 29:12
  the Bitcoin is so interrelated to all of those things that you
• 29:15
  talk on the whole Tropic Renaissance pod.
• 29:18
  It, it, it, it, it, it is literally the Dow, if you, if
• 29:24
  you get my drift, like from the 10,000 things is the one for you
• 29:29
  know, the from the one comes the 10,000 things.
• 29:31
  And you can just plug into this this current of energy and go
• 29:38
  about your day in whatever way you wish.
• 29:43
  Yes. So I don't know.
• 29:50
  I like, I, I don't like to be too indulgent on this pod, but
• 29:55
  there's this thought that's been nagging at me for a while.
• 30:00
  I read about, Have you? Are you familiar with Rudolf
• 30:07
  Steiner too much? Not really.
• 30:10
  I am aware of him and that's about it.
• 30:16
  Yeah, he's. I know a little bit about what
• 30:18
  he studied, like sigh, phenomenon and yeah.
• 30:22
  Yeah, he's a kook if you superficially comes across as a
• 30:27
  bit of a bit of a kook. But he come up with this concept
• 30:33
  in one of his lectures about silica being that kind of
• 30:39
  intermediary point between the form that they unformed in the
• 30:43
  formed or the formless in the form.
• 30:47
  And silica kind of mediates the, if you think of it in sort of
• 30:55
  Taoist terms, the, the one, the field, the universal, all,
• 31:00
  everything. And then you pass through that
• 31:03
  threshold, which is mediated by this, this crystal structure,
• 31:13
  you know, this, this mineral structure.
• 31:17
  And then it kind of helps you form it.
• 31:19
  So it's, it's like, think of it as like a snowflake, you know,
• 31:22
  like it's, it's sort of atmosphere.
• 31:25
  It's, it's holy shit, I really got to get some coffee into me.
• 31:33
  It's. No problem.
• 31:38
  It's it's, you know, it's, it's atmosphere, it's, it's, it's
• 31:43
  air, right, which is like non condensed H2O and then, and then
• 31:49
  it condenses to ice and it forms these crystalline structures
• 31:55
  which give it form. So it goes from formlessness,
• 31:57
  formlessness to form as it passes through this medium of
• 32:03
  like this crystalline structure of, of silica.
• 32:06
  And anyway, the point being is that Bitcoin runs on silicon
• 32:11
  chips as software, right? And it.
• 32:17
  So are those crystals? No.
• 32:21
  Well, no, the silicon chips aren't.
• 32:22
  No, they've, they've been. OK, All right, There's this
• 32:27
  thinking of right now where this woman gets up on stage somewhere
• 32:32
  at some like conspiracy kind of conference of some sort.
• 32:37
  And she gets on the mic and she asks this question.
• 32:40
  She says, is the Internet running on crystals?
• 32:44
  And the whoever she's asking the question to is kind of confused
• 32:49
  and doesn't really know how to answer.
• 32:52
  And then she kind of stops him and she says, I didn't
• 32:56
  understand what you just said. All I want to know is, is the
• 32:59
  Internet running on crystals? And then somebody says yes.
• 33:03
  And she said, OK, thank you. And she goes and sits down.
• 33:07
  She's like, that's all I want to know.
• 33:08
  Is it running on crystals and that yeah, I was just thinking
• 33:13
  about her. I'll have to find that clip and.
• 33:15
  That's what I sounded like. I apologize not.
• 33:20
  Exactly, but that was what came to mind.
• 33:22
  It's coming to mind some crazy chick in it in the audience.
• 33:25
  Yeah, look, it definitely the Internet runs on crystals,
• 33:27
  everyone and and Bitcoin. Yeah, it is the media between
• 33:33
  formlessness and form. Yeah.
• 33:36
  I, I, it's, it's this, it's this long essay that I've been
• 33:41
  trudging out for the best part of a couple of months now and I
• 33:44
  finally got across the line. But basically it's this notion
• 33:49
  that, you know, silicon is a semiconductor and it has certain
• 33:56
  rules where a signal can pass or not pass through.
• 34:01
  And if you plug yourself into Bitcoin, it will bring out all
• 34:07
  of your it it, it, it will help you evolve.
• 34:10
  It'll help you grow conscious consciously as an individual.
• 34:17
  I believe that. Yeah, I think that's true.
• 34:19
  I think it's a yeah, it's definitely an evolution of
• 34:21
  consciousness. People that discover it have
• 34:24
  have made great strides in their, in their ability to be in
• 34:29
  the world, whether that's, you know, yeah.
• 34:33
  I think so too. And sometimes it takes longer
• 34:36
  than some people would like, but it's, it is what it is.
• 34:41
  It's a, it's a brilliant mirror. It like forces you to face
• 34:44
  yourself. And so in a way, that kind of is
• 34:49
  what psychedelics do as well. Now I'll just qualify.
• 34:53
  The closest I've got is effectively psilocybin, like
• 34:57
  trumes. I haven't.
• 34:59
  I don't have like anyone. I can tap on the shoulder and be
• 35:02
  like, hey man, have you got some tabs of LSD yet?
• 35:06
  Actually, you might have one guy, but he lives far away from
• 35:09
  me, say. His name Say his name.
• 35:15
  But my point is that when you, when you go on a mushroom trip,
• 35:20
  it, it kind of just reflects back to you, you know, or, or
• 35:23
  shows you something, yeah, that you've been missing.
• 35:29
  Yeah, honestly, I would say in in many ways mushrooms are way
• 35:32
  more intelligent than LSD. So I, I, I certainly wouldn't
• 35:37
  like rank them. But yeah, psilocybin is
• 35:41
  incredibly powerful for those deep personal emotional
• 35:45
  insights. I would say even better than LSD
• 35:49
  for that particular for personal growth reasons definitely.
• 35:54
  And so where do you think they intersect?
• 35:58
  Of those psychedelic mushrooms. Yeah, well, just psychedelics,
• 36:02
  mushrooms with respect to big. Well, I think, I don't know,
• 36:07
  there's, there's many different places I could take it.
• 36:10
  I think #1 psychedelics are illegal for political reasons,
• 36:15
  not for health reasons. And, and so I think that the
• 36:21
  free market would place psychedelics in their proper
• 36:26
  location. They're non addictive largely.
• 36:31
  I mean, it depends where you draw the line.
• 36:33
  I draw the line right before MDMA and ketamine.
• 36:36
  That's where I draw the line personally.
• 36:38
  Those are not really psychedelics that they're like
• 36:41
  psychedelic adjacent. And both of them have some habit
• 36:44
  forming qualities, especially ketamine.
• 36:46
  So that's where I kind of cut it off.
• 36:50
  So I, I think that they're, they can be harmful if they're used
• 36:55
  improperly, but our society doesn't really have context in
• 37:00
  which to place them. Then the next layer, and that I
• 37:04
  say all of that is a caveat of like, if we were to just make
• 37:07
  everything legal overnight, it could be a catastrophe.
• 37:10
  I have no idea. And I don't necessarily
• 37:12
  recommend that, but I don't care to allow the government to tell
• 37:16
  me what I can and can't put in my body.
• 37:19
  Of course. And so then the next layer is,
• 37:23
  well, this technology, this the psychedelics have the ability to
• 37:35
  help us to recycle our consciousness faster than we do
• 37:39
  through the birth and death cycle.
• 37:41
  And if that doesn't make sense, what I mean is your
• 37:44
  neuroplasticity solidifies it like 45 years old.
• 37:48
  And from that point forward, it's really hard to change your
• 37:51
  mind in a fundamental way. That can be good or it can be
• 37:55
  bad that there was a time in history when I think it was a
• 37:59
  good thing, when we were carrying a positive traditions
• 38:01
  and family values and all these things.
• 38:04
  But over the last 100 years or so, you could argue much longer.
• 38:09
  It just depends on what society you're talking about and at what
• 38:13
  period. We've fallen into a lot of
• 38:17
  trauma, a lot of PTSDA, lot of degeneracy.
• 38:22
  And I think that those qualities are, are hard grained into
• 38:26
  people and psychedelics can help to kind of soften those
• 38:32
  assumptions so that people can do things differently.
• 38:37
  And I, I think that is largely what's required for Bitcoin to
• 38:40
  succeed is for people to let their guard down for a second
• 38:45
  and be like, OK, you know what? I don't actually know what this
• 38:48
  is. And I'm willing to learn.
• 38:51
  I'm willing to change my mind. And I, I would really like to
• 38:54
  see that happen in a way that it's not forced on people
• 38:58
  through poverty, you know, but in economic terms and safety in
• 39:03
  terms, it is what it is like that's probably how most people
• 39:08
  are going to learn about it. And so I, I see potential for
• 39:12
  psychedelics to help society understand Bitcoin faster and
• 39:17
  for us to get out of a lot of the mess that we've made over
• 39:20
  the last 100 years faster. Does that mean it's going to
• 39:25
  happen? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know.
• 39:27
  It's not really up to me, but there's potential there.
• 39:31
  And, and, and then the third layer is like, look at what a
• 39:34
  mess we've caused in this time. And there's a lot of people that
• 39:40
  are suffering really badly. And psychedelic therapy is 1
• 39:43
  very potent solution to that suffering to help bring people
• 39:48
  out of all of the trauma that was caused by the Fiat wars,
• 39:53
  which is I think what they'll be called, you know, 200 years from
• 39:58
  now, this will be referred to as like the, the Fiat period.
• 40:02
  I, I hope, I hope that that level of consciousness is, is
• 40:06
  sustained about the deception that's taking place.
• 40:11
  Yeah, it's definitely a deception.
• 40:14
  One of the. I mean, well, first of all,
• 40:16
  shout out to all the boomers who have discovered Bitcoin over the
• 40:21
  age of 45. You're right, You're a rare
• 40:24
  breed. But second of all, when I have
• 40:28
  these conversations, particularly in around
• 40:29
  psychedelics and Bitcoin at the intersection, one of the one of
• 40:35
  the concerns I have, I know that that that that people talk about
• 40:40
  Bitcoin as this thing that you know it it, it converged to one.
• 40:45
  It's like a Daoist thing again, but with same similar thing with
• 40:51
  like psychedelics. You're part of a lineage who
• 40:54
  have discussed the benefits of psychedelics on the human being,
• 41:03
  you know, Terence McKenna, obviously Ramdas, etcetera.
• 41:06
  There's, there's plenty of them out there, but it it is
• 41:10
  ultimately relegated to a kind of niche corner of I guess the
• 41:14
  Internet nowadays. And I and I wondered talking
• 41:19
  about Bitcoin in those terms, whether it also has a
• 41:23
  possibility to get relegated to a niche corner of the Internet
• 41:29
  or the jungle. You know, if people are using it
• 41:31
  in real time, if you've cultivated A sufficient
• 41:34
  community to do those things. Obviously, for someone
• 41:39
  discovering Bitcoin for the first time, listening to this
• 41:42
  episode, they might be like what?
• 41:46
  But yeah, it it, it's, it's niche within a niche, if you get
• 41:52
  my drift. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 41:57
  The Venn diagram is, is definitely there is some middle
• 42:01
  ground there. There are a lot of Bitcoiners
• 42:04
  who have psychedelic experience, some of which I think are
• 42:08
  similar to me, where they discovered Bitcoin through their
• 42:12
  interest in psychedelics, but it is a niche inside a niche.
• 42:17
  At the same time. I think that both topics are
• 42:19
  entering the mainstream. Psychedelics kind of had like a
• 42:23
  big a big moment a few years ago where there were like a lot of
• 42:28
  documentaries coming out. How to Change Your Mind by
• 42:31
  Michael Pollan got a lot of attention among some other
• 42:36
  celebrities coming out and saying they were doing
• 42:37
  psychedelics. But Bitcoin is is entering the
• 42:41
  mainstream in a way that I honestly didn't expect, at least
• 42:46
  in terms of its speed and in terms of which players are
• 42:51
  involved, like BlackRock. I didn't anticipate BlackRock
• 42:54
  and Donald Trump being like the Champions for Bitcoin this year.
• 42:59
  Of course, whatever they're doing, it's not helping the
• 43:02
  price in, in dollar terms or in gold terms, which is all that
• 43:08
  matters, you know, quoting safety.
• 43:11
  So their, their impact is, is not helpful, at least so far.
• 43:15
  But I think in the long run it probably will be.
• 43:17
  It's, it's kind of like the cat's out of the bag and
• 43:20
  nothing, you know, put it back in.
• 43:22
  Yeah. So I don't, I guess that's my
• 43:24
  point. I don't think these things are
• 43:25
  going to stay niche. I think that this conversation
• 43:28
  is going to get very, very big. And that's part of why I made
• 43:32
  the lecture series was to to create some framework or some
• 43:37
  guidance or some rationality around the conversation, even
• 43:43
  pre emptively to it happening, if that makes sense.
• 43:48
  Multiple instances on the pod, on the, on the lecture series,
• 43:52
  you actually shout out Bitcoin as the enabler of you to
• 43:58
  actually do this and to see it through and to create it into,
• 44:02
  into, into the world. And that's so cool.
• 44:08
  For me, it's like testament to the power of this thing.
• 44:12
  It whatever else Bitcoin does, it, it has enabled you as an
• 44:17
  individual to take an idea and form it and, you know, make it
• 44:23
  tangible, make it a thing that can affect people.
• 44:26
  And I guarantee when you're making this thing, you had no
• 44:31
  idea that, you know, some dude in Australia would be listening
• 44:33
  to it, driving a nine hours and going, yeah, that's cool.
• 44:38
  Or like I've listened to a couple of episodes while I'm
• 44:41
  mowing the lawn. And you know, like these are the
• 44:44
  things that we just can't comprehend.
• 44:46
  We just, we feel that impulse and some of us have the spare
• 44:50
  time and energy or the will to create that spare time and
• 44:54
  energy to then go off and create those things to just for really
• 44:58
  your own benefit. But Bitcoin can propel that
• 45:03
  forward so much faster because as you point out on the in the
• 45:08
  series, it's like, you know, there's there's no way this
• 45:11
  thing would have worked. I'd be able to do this with the
• 45:13
  time and energy available if it wasn't for saving some pastime
• 45:19
  and energy in this in this protocol.
• 45:23
  Right. Yeah.
• 45:24
  And, and there's so many layers to it, right?
• 45:26
  Because it's not just about the time and and energy, it's also
• 45:29
  about my concern about the future in terms of my
• 45:33
  livelihood. Because I was working in a
• 45:35
  career where if I had made content like that and posted it
• 45:41
  and then people in my industry found out, I probably would not
• 45:44
  be in good shape. Career risk just.
• 45:47
  Because of the way we were and I needed to have enough, a few
• 45:53
  money to be able to do and say exactly what I think is right
• 45:59
  and, and not worry about that and not need anybody's approval
• 46:04
  for me, you know, and Bitcoin did provide that and it
• 46:08
  continues to provide it. It's providing it a little
• 46:11
  slower over the last 12 months, but it's still providing it and
• 46:16
  and I'm grateful. Some people by football teams
• 46:22
  and hire security guards to patrol on Saturday mornings in
• 46:28
  their local town and others create psychedelic guidance
• 46:34
  series centered around Bitcoin. This is this is the disparate.
• 46:38
  This is what you can do if you're if you just wanted to, if
• 46:42
  you just want to save your time and energy in Bitcoin, this is
• 46:45
  incredible. Right.
• 46:47
  Yeah, that's the Renaissance. I think people need more free
• 46:50
  time to really drop into what they feel is the best use of
• 46:55
  their time at any given moment. How has discovering Bitcoin
• 47:00
  changed you? Oh man, well, I grew up on the
• 47:07
  West Coast in the US and so I received a very, I'm not even
• 47:14
  going to call it liberal. That term isn't appropriate.
• 47:17
  It's it was the Marxist education or like a postmodern
• 47:24
  socialist education, which at at one point I was kind of bitter
• 47:29
  about it. But I'm really glad that I got
• 47:33
  into that headspace of indoctrination through the state
• 47:37
  and then made my way out. And Bitcoin is what pulled me
• 47:39
  out. Like actually it was brilliant
• 47:42
  because I had a lot of cognitive dissonance leading into
• 47:48
  understanding Bitcoin because once I finally understood it, I
• 47:52
  understood the implications of what I was buying.
• 47:55
  I was continuing to buy. And then I was also concerned
• 47:58
  about the implications at the same time.
• 48:01
  And it was because I was, I had an operating system running that
• 48:07
  was faulty, but my self interested incentives
• 48:13
  overpowered that that faulty operating system and ultimately
• 48:18
  just ousted the virus, You know, so I became a libertarian.
• 48:24
  I didn't even know what that term meant.
• 48:26
  I used to think that that libertarians were, were wacky
• 48:29
  people that that like nudists that wanted to sell heroin to
• 48:33
  5th graders because that was kind of how it was portrayed to
• 48:37
  me. But now I look back at that and
• 48:40
  I realized, OK, maybe libertarianism is idealistic and
• 48:45
  maybe it's utopian and, and whatever, but it's the only
• 48:48
  ethical logical stance to take. Everything that stems from there
• 48:54
  is a compromise to ethics basically.
• 48:59
  And so yeah, I just, I was a complete re education of myself
• 49:03
  and everything I understood about history and the government
• 49:07
  and health even. I mean, I, yeah, but the way I
• 49:13
  eat has changed because of listening to other Bitcoiners.
• 49:15
  And yeah, it's just amazing. I, I can't even really begin to
• 49:20
  put it in the terms. And then on top of that is the
• 49:22
  social layer of all the people I've met through Bitcoin who are
• 49:25
  now my dear, dear friends that I see all over the world in
• 49:29
  different places. And I love them.
• 49:31
  And knowing them has a huge impact on me.
• 49:33
  And me knowing them has a big impact on them.
• 49:36
  And yeah, it's, it's endless. It's changed my entire life from
• 49:40
  top to bottom, really. I mean, it's, I'm still exactly
• 49:42
  who I am or was and I'm I'm completely changed at the same
• 49:47
  time. And I know that would definitely
• 49:49
  sound nuts to somebody who hasn't been through this, but it
• 49:54
  is what it is. I don't know.
• 49:56
  I mean, it's, it's impossible to ignore.
• 49:59
  Well. That's that neutral amplifier
• 50:02
  man that that we were discussing before.
• 50:05
  It's, it is so crazy to me that a bit of software on the
• 50:11
  Internet has such an effect on someone and, and not just
• 50:18
  someone like loads of people, at least over 150 on this, on this
• 50:22
  particular podcast. You know, it's, it's a neutral
• 50:27
  protocol for transmitting value across space and time.
• 50:30
  And yet it's, it's transformed. You were just saying as an
• 50:36
  individual from within, psychologically,
• 50:40
  physiologically, psychosocially, I suppose, in in ways that
• 50:48
  unless you were willing to pass through this thing and come to
• 50:53
  terms with it, it just wouldn't have happened.
• 50:56
  It's so bananas to me. It's so bonkers.
• 50:59
  Yeah, I mean it. It really is neutral though.
• 51:01
  I mean, obviously the the code doesn't care about any of these
• 51:04
  things. Nope, it's just I.
• 51:06
  I guess what it comes down to is that it helped me to extract
• 51:09
  myself from a system which doesn't make any sense at all,
• 51:13
  so to return to a more natural state of who I would be had I
• 51:18
  not been indoctrinated with bullshit.
• 51:22
  Totally. And and this is yeah, without,
• 51:26
  without a doubt. I mean, it is, it's what it's
• 51:30
  what it's what you said like it, it, it, it doesn't care.
• 51:35
  But if you interact with it in a in a way that that is open and
• 51:40
  willing, you can gain so much more than just price
• 51:44
  appreciation. Yes, absolutely.
• 51:49
  And at the same time, you know, I say that it doesn't care and
• 51:51
  all that, but I, I, and this is kind of schizo, but I do feel
• 51:55
  like there's a collective Bitcoin consciousness, which is
• 51:59
  more than just the podcast chats and conversations that happen
• 52:03
  online. I feel like I can feel the, the
• 52:07
  Bitcoin consciousness on this planet growing, if that makes
• 52:10
  any sense. And I don't know if that's true
• 52:13
  or if that's just my own, you know, sort of nervous system
• 52:16
  responding to the price. I, I don't know, but some days I
• 52:20
  wake up and I'm like, people are bullish today.
• 52:24
  It's not just me, like everybody's bullish and then I
• 52:27
  can wake up. People are scared today and it's
• 52:30
  like I go on nostril and it's like, Yep, people, I can see it.
• 52:33
  People are scared today, so I don't know.
• 52:37
  And gnarly observation. I, I'm, I'm, yeah, I, I don't
• 52:43
  know, I, I think about that for like 3 seconds and then start to
• 52:46
  realise that you're absolutely correct.
• 52:48
  It's like Bitcoin mentalism. Yeah, there there's a, there's a
• 52:54
  collective unconscious for bit pointers and and we do share
• 52:56
  ideas. Like for example, I can't tell
• 52:59
  you how many times I've been like, I figured it out and then
• 53:02
  boom, like it's on a podcast with Jeff Booth like a week
• 53:05
  later or, or vice versa or whatever, you know?
• 53:10
  You know, I think that's. Pretty amazing.
• 53:13
  I think that's existing all like everything that we see.
• 53:21
  I think that's the literal, the, the transmit, the transmission
• 53:25
  of the formless into the form. Like I was listening to John
• 53:28
  Frusciani, you know, he, he put together a band with friend
• 53:34
  John, Josh Klinghoffer and the dude from Attacks from Fugazi.
• 53:41
  And they spent two weeks, they recorded 2 albums and the albums
• 53:45
  are called Ataxia. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet,
• 53:48
  sweet music. But anyway, they didn't have any
• 53:51
  songs written or anything like that.
• 53:52
  They literally just went into the studio and just kind of
• 53:56
  listened to what came out of their instruments and then
• 54:00
  formed it into a structure, song structure, and then recorded it
• 54:04
  and there you go. It's done.
• 54:07
  And the way he talks about he's kind of like this, this mediator
• 54:11
  between the universe and what it's trying to express, you
• 54:17
  know, and it just just happens to express certain sounds,
• 54:21
  textures, melodies, whatever song lyrics through him.
• 54:27
  He's just a conduit. And maybe there is like that
• 54:32
  similar thing with with Bitcoin or with, with anything, whether
• 54:35
  it's farming, being an arborist, you know, like a software
• 54:42
  designer, whatever. It's just, it's that field, it's
• 54:46
  that that universal all trying to communicate and express
• 54:51
  itself through form and just using US basically as as
• 54:57
  conscious beings to to manifest this shit in the real world.
• 55:02
  And then some of us are good at chatting into it and some of us
• 55:05
  are not. But it's all.
• 55:07
  Right. But that's literally the the
• 55:09
  holotropic I have in mind, getting out of the way, allowing
• 55:14
  that to come forward and like, stop, stop all the bullshit.
• 55:19
  And just like, let yourself be the disciple of whatever it is
• 55:22
  that you're the best at. That's it, man.
• 55:26
  Let yourself be that. If you're a good sandwich maker,
• 55:32
  the Fiat doesn't allow you to really easily be the best
• 55:35
  sandwich maker. You know, because you could open
• 55:38
  a shop, you could open a successful business, but you've
• 55:41
  got to gather all this capital up and probably go into a shit
• 55:45
  ton of debt and deal with all of this bullshit.
• 55:49
  Whereas, you know, with Bitcoin just becomes a little bit
• 55:53
  easier. You could really hone in that
• 55:55
  craft. You can start by just having
• 55:57
  that extra half hour a day or half a day or whatever it is per
• 56:02
  week to really focus on, you know, making the best
• 56:05
  sandwiches, whatever it is, like whatever it is.
• 56:08
  And it's all. Just the Japanese, like I, the
• 56:11
  Japanese will do this even if they're getting completely
• 56:14
  broke, they don't, they will continue to make whatever food
• 56:18
  or like whatever they're manufacturing, they like make it
• 56:21
  into an art, you know, and I, I really appreciate that about
• 56:24
  Japanese culture. There's something sacred about.
• 56:28
  It's crazy, like there's a guy I think I saw on a Netflix cooking
• 56:32
  show once who only creates udon noodles and like he's just, he's
• 56:39
  like the best in town. And that's, that's what he does.
• 56:42
  And then when he sells out, he sells out and he packs up and he
• 56:45
  goes home and it's like that's, that's enough for him.
• 56:52
  Like he's just focusing on that craft, making enough to get by
• 56:56
  and being the best at whatever that is that he's bringing into
• 56:58
  the world. Yeah, you don't also have to be
• 57:02
  like an udon noodle influencer on YouTube.
• 57:05
  Like that's you're not forced to also drive Uber while you're
• 57:08
  doing the udon noodle, the best udon noodles in the world, and
• 57:13
  delivering udon noodles using Uber Eats at the same time.
• 57:18
  Exactly. Or even like opening up another
• 57:21
  udon noodle bar, you know? Udon Noodle franchise that then
• 57:25
  dilutes the quality, yeah. As you scale, I know, right?
• 57:29
  Like, right, this is the, this is the thing like you get to a
• 57:33
  certain point in your life and you just realize, you know,
• 57:36
  you're, you're passing through and whatever your gift is, find
• 57:43
  it, work it, work on it and refine it and give it away, put
• 57:49
  it into the world and see what, see what happens.
• 57:52
  I mean, this is the literally the, the whole point.
• 57:56
  And I guess this is the whole Tropic renaissance that you talk
• 57:58
  about. It's.
• 58:01
  Yeah, and I, I recently, just recently fell into what I think
• 58:04
  might be my thing, which is orange filling people.
• 58:08
  That's what I do. That's what I do for free, is
• 58:12
  what I do for fun. And I just actually started
• 58:15
  working with Sovereign as a Bitcoin consultant.
• 58:19
  So I'm, I'm going to, I'm preparing to go in the news
• 58:21
  tomorrow to talk about Bitcoin. This is what I was talking about
• 58:25
  earlier with myself. So I'm going to go on the news
• 58:28
  in North Carolina and talk about Bitcoin vendor adoption of
• 58:33
  Bitcoin specifically because that's something we can do.
• 58:36
  So yeah, I, I mean, I and I genuinely have been giving it
• 58:39
  away. I've been doing this for free
• 58:41
  for five years. And I, I'm going to continue to
• 58:44
  give away for free until people start throwing money at me.
• 58:48
  That's what's going to happen, yeah.
• 58:51
  Yeah. What are they?
• 58:51
  What there's there's like a book.
• 58:53
  Do what you love and the money will come.
• 58:55
  Or something like that sounds. Good.
• 58:58
  Yeah, I don't need to read that. I got it.
• 59:01
  What do you find? OK, cool.
• 59:03
  Give me give me some insight. Give me give me a little bit of
• 59:06
  hot tip on how to orange peel someone sure does it take.
• 59:09
  Well, I can in a way also like even if nobody additional units
• 59:16
  of currency of any kind, new people coming onto the Bitcoin
• 59:20
  network does make me wealthier because I have Bitcoin and
• 59:24
  everybody that has Bitcoin benefits from that.
• 59:25
  So it's like, yeah, you know, it is what it is.
• 59:28
  But OK, So the number one tip and I, I tell us to everybody
• 59:33
  that right at the starting point, if you're entering a
• 59:36
  conversation with the intent to change somebody's mind or to
• 59:40
  teach them something, you're already fucking up.
• 59:45
  Yes. You have to completely
• 59:48
  relinquish any desire for them to agree with you or to change
• 59:54
  them in any way. So it's like unconditional
• 59:57
  positive regard for the person you're talking to.
• 1:00:00
  Meet them where they're at and then if they're, and then if
• 1:00:03
  they're interested, they'll get curious and they'll start asking
• 1:00:06
  questions. It's your job as an orange
• 1:00:09
  filler to make them curious. How do you do that?
• 1:00:13
  Well, there's many different ways, but my favorite 1 is
• 1:00:19
  everything gets more expensive forever in dollars.
• 1:00:23
  Everything gets cheaper forever in Bitcoin.
• 1:00:26
  And as soon as they hear that, they're like, wait, what?
• 1:00:29
  Like why? Like how you know, how does that
• 1:00:31
  happen? How can you say such a thing?
• 1:00:36
  And then I got them. Then they're curious.
• 1:00:39
  Yeah, I, I, I like that, particularly framing it that
• 1:00:43
  way, You know, everything gets cheaper on Bitcoin.
• 1:00:47
  What? Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  I was talking to a business owner a couple of weeks ago
• 1:00:51
  about that very thing, and you could see the wheels turning in
• 1:00:54
  her head. She was.
• 1:00:57
  I, it's, I'm intruding what you're saying, but I'm not quite
• 1:01:01
  getting it. Yeah, I, I, I'm, I've mentioned
• 1:01:06
  on the on the pub before. I'm reluctant to give people
• 1:01:08
  like whole books, you know, like I've, I've given the Bitcoin
• 1:01:12
  started out once and it was an abject failure and.
• 1:01:18
  That's a big undertaking. That's what I think too.
• 1:01:21
  I've heard people like, oh, I gave them Larry, Larry's, you
• 1:01:24
  know, Larry, the pods, the big print.
• 1:01:26
  And it's a really good original book.
• 1:01:29
  I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, it's a lot.
• 1:01:35
  To read, you enjoy reading, you know, because a lot of people
• 1:01:38
  don't. So right off the bat, you know,
• 1:01:40
  like then maybe if they don't like reading, I'll send them the
• 1:01:44
  what's the problem video on YouTube because people seem to
• 1:01:46
  like that a lot. I don't know if you've seen that
• 1:01:49
  one. It's like 40 minutes long.
• 1:01:51
  Joe, I think, isn't Joe. And if if their attention span
• 1:01:54
  is not 40 minutes, then I don't have much I can do for that
• 1:01:59
  person. You know they need to get off
• 1:02:00
  TikTok. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:04
  That's the, that's that day and age, too, isn't it?
• 1:02:08
  The attention span has been whittled out, hollowed out.
• 1:02:13
  Yeah. So bad the high high time
• 1:02:15
  preference is reaching A crescendo.
• 1:02:17
  It's like, can I can I see everything at once in in one
• 1:02:22
  second? Yeah, that's that's called God.
• 1:02:29
  Right, but. But but time it's it's not at
• 1:02:34
  speed, though. He's singing it all at once or
• 1:02:36
  it's singing it all at once in a very still and peaceful way.
• 1:02:46
  I don't know, the TikTok and Instagram reels and stuff like
• 1:02:50
  that, as humorous as they can be in the right set and setting,
• 1:02:58
  It's yeah, it's toxic poison for your mind.
• 1:03:03
  For sure It is. It's great, unfortunately,
• 1:03:06
  because it is entertaining, but gosh, it's bad.
• 1:03:10
  But yeah, actually Sovereign has a book called The Business Case
• 1:03:13
  for Bitcoin. I think it's like 80 pages, so
• 1:03:15
  that might be a good reference for.
• 1:03:17
  It's free online for your business friend.
• 1:03:21
  Quick break just to say, if you're enjoying the show and
• 1:03:24
  digging what you hear, please consider supporting discovering
• 1:03:27
  Bitcoin by shooting, boosting, sending, or zapping the show.
• 1:03:30
  Some stats. If you're listening via
• 1:03:32
  podcasting 2 point O apps such as Fountain, Pod Verse, or
• 1:03:36
  Breeze, it's easier done than said.
• 1:03:39
  All you got to do is tap the boost button or set an amount of
• 1:03:42
  sats to stream per minute while you're listening.
• 1:03:45
  Alternatively, if you want to ZAP me direct via lightning
• 1:03:49
  address, please send snaps and sats for zaps and sats in
• 1:03:53
  support of the show to discovering Bitcoin at
• 1:03:57
  primal.net. Thank you for listening and
• 1:04:00
  thank you for your support. I hear you've got crows in
• 1:04:05
  Australia, That's I didn't know that.
• 1:04:09
  And we've got all the bread life here, man.
• 1:04:13
  Do you have crackles in Texas? They've got these.
• 1:04:17
  They they're not crows. They look like crows, but
• 1:04:19
  they're called crackles and they sound like the dial up noise
• 1:04:22
  from the 90s. Oh, really?
• 1:04:25
  Yeah, they're crazy. If you go on YouTube and find
• 1:04:28
  like crackle noises Texas or something, you'll you'll it'll
• 1:04:31
  blow your mind. The sounds they make, it's
• 1:04:33
  unbelievable. I'm.
• 1:04:33
  Going to do that I saw this bird it's it's like this ancient
• 1:04:38
  looking dinosaur type bird and it has like a growl on it when
• 1:04:41
  it I don't think it could fly, but it just it sounds horrific
• 1:04:47
  like it sounds scary so a dial up sounding bird sounds a lot
• 1:04:52
  more up my alley than this one there it.
• 1:04:55
  Might be called crackles, not crackles.
• 1:04:57
  I think it's spelled AG. But anyway, you'll find it.
• 1:05:00
  I'll check it out. Yeah, we got all the bird life,
• 1:05:03
  man. It's every.
• 1:05:05
  All the birds are waking up and starting to have a fight.
• 1:05:07
  That's why they're singing, telling everyone.
• 1:05:10
  Oh. You know, I got to come down.
• 1:05:13
  Been meaning to come to Australia and go to a Bush bash.
• 1:05:16
  At some point, yeah. You, you should.
• 1:05:19
  There's a there's one happening in Byron in May.
• 1:05:24
  In May. Yeah, in May.
• 1:05:26
  And then there's one up in tropical North Queensland, shout
• 1:05:31
  out to to Palm Cove, Dasby, one of the organizers up there.
• 1:05:38
  There's one over in Busselton. There's one down in Beechworth
• 1:05:40
  happening in March, actually. Wow.
• 1:05:43
  OK, sounds like a very active. It's a very active community and
• 1:05:48
  the organizers are phenomenal individuals.
• 1:05:52
  They just because there's no sponsorship or anything and it's
• 1:05:56
  all pleb run pleb LED and you know, and it's it it's one of
• 1:06:03
  the most authentic genuine Bitcoin experiences I think you
• 1:06:06
  can go to because there's very little ego and everyone is there
• 1:06:14
  to learn and to listen and to contribute in whatever way they
• 1:06:18
  can. Yeah, no, that that's where I
• 1:06:21
  was heading on that 9 hour drive when I was listening to the
• 1:06:24
  whole Tropic renaissance to a Bush bash.
• 1:06:28
  So yeah, man, it's you should get out here you.
• 1:06:33
  Know I will. It's something I'm not sure I'll
• 1:06:35
  make it for May, but I do want to come.
• 1:06:37
  I got to see it. I'm way more bullish on on meet
• 1:06:40
  ups than I am on conferences at the moment.
• 1:06:42
  The conference thing seems to be played out.
• 1:06:44
  Yeah, definitely, definitely. And it played out in its own
• 1:06:47
  little echo chamber and it it, yeah, yeah, it's a took about a
• 1:06:54
  niche within a niche. Even though you're getting
• 1:06:56
  25,000 people to Miami, they're all, they're all lobby cons.
• 1:07:02
  You know the the best bits of the of the conference happen in
• 1:07:06
  the hallways. Yeah, the code right over and.
• 1:07:10
  And last, I mean Vegas was so hectic I went last year in in in
• 1:07:16
  hopes of orange peeling a friend, which didn't work but I
• 1:07:20
  tried my best. Sensory overload.
• 1:07:24
  Oh, it's terrible. Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Like my autism can't handle that town.
• 1:07:27
  It's too much. Sit them down, put, you know,
• 1:07:31
  just get them to to take like, I don't know, 5 grams.
• 1:07:35
  Just give them a hero's dose of of psilocybin and put.
• 1:07:39
  Play Sailor. Just like with the with the The
• 1:07:48
  Clockwork Orange eye expander thing.
• 1:07:52
  Yeah, exactly. Can't blink.
• 1:07:54
  There's actually a YouTube video.
• 1:07:56
  It's kind of like one of those relaxing things where they've
• 1:07:58
  got sailors sitting on a stream and it's sort of like this
• 1:08:02
  flowing water and gentle music in the background.
• 1:08:06
  Might even be binaural. And then it just has like
• 1:08:09
  sailors aphorisms spoken over the top for like 8 hours.
• 1:08:14
  You could just do that. Oh, man, I was at, I was at
• 1:08:18
  Halloween in Charlotte for Halloween.
• 1:08:21
  And and there was a DJ there and the DJ was pretty talented.
• 1:08:26
  And the organizer, Jacob, who's a buddy of mine, asked him to
• 1:08:29
  put on this like techno sailor mix.
• 1:08:32
  And he put it on. And I could just see this DJ was
• 1:08:38
  like so embarrassed to be standing behind the turntable.
• 1:08:41
  And he's like, what are what am I playing right now?
• 1:08:43
  Yeah. But I was loving it.
• 1:08:45
  I mean, yeah, yeah, it was, it was.
• 1:08:49
  And it was awesome. Bitcoin and can be cringed.
• 1:08:52
  Let's let's not. Of course, of course, primarily
• 1:08:57
  like I, I, I went to it was Nostrasia and I saw people do
• 1:09:03
  karaoke. Talk about cringe.
• 1:09:05
  I mean, it was deep cringe. It's like it's just a bunch of
• 1:09:10
  nerds that like doing nerdy shit and that's great.
• 1:09:13
  Yeah, we have. Fuck you.
• 1:09:18
  Yeah, we're super early in this whole thing.
• 1:09:21
  Participator now cringe will be left behind, right?
• 1:09:26
  Yeah, yeah, it brings the cringe.
• 1:09:29
  What do you wish more people knew about Bitcoin?
• 1:09:35
  Honestly this is 1 simple fact. 95% of all the Bitcoin that will
• 1:09:41
  ever exist is circulating right now.
• 1:09:45
  Yeah. That's it.
• 1:09:47
  It's like not this is not complicated.
• 1:09:50
  Yeah, it's in retrospect, like after we get a Rapture candle,
• 1:09:54
  like people are going to be. I don't know.
• 1:09:56
  They're going to. They're going to, it's going to
• 1:09:58
  be hard emotionally for a lot of people that didn't buy it, you
• 1:10:01
  know, but it is what it is. I just heard that that emotion
• 1:10:05
  doesn't turn kinetic. That's that's kind of.
• 1:10:10
  Yeah, I, I'm ready for that personally here in the States.
• 1:10:16
  But yeah, for the Australian, European big pointers.
• 1:10:18
  I I also hope it doesn't very kinetic.
• 1:10:23
  Yeah, slightly, slightly different cultural expectations
• 1:10:26
  over here, but something's shifting.
• 1:10:30
  I don't know. There's an energy, there's
• 1:10:32
  something. Yeah, yeah, I don't think it
• 1:10:34
  will, honestly. I think a lot of the concerns,
• 1:10:36
  in fact, almost every time I've had some kind of a blanket
• 1:10:39
  concern about the future, as soon as I let go of it, it
• 1:10:43
  dissolves. Yes, exactly.
• 1:10:47
  Spinning your wheels going nowhere?
• 1:10:49
  Be here now. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:54
  What does Bitcoin mean to you? What does Bitcoin mean to me?
• 1:11:01
  Bitcoin means to me the encapsulation of human
• 1:11:06
  productivity on a single protocol that doesn't require
• 1:11:13
  any specific coordinating layer except the money itself.
• 1:11:17
  I mean, basically that's economics in a nutshell if you
• 1:11:19
  understand the free market. But Bitcoin is the is the road
• 1:11:23
  to the free market. That's that's what Bitcoin is to
• 1:11:26
  be. Bitcoin is the road to the free
• 1:11:28
  market. Yeah, right on.
• 1:11:31
  Yeah. Sauce node Yeah, this is the
• 1:11:36
  last time we we we. We might refer to you by your
• 1:11:39
  actual name, but certainly not on this part.
• 1:11:43
  Maybe. Yeah, dude, thank you so much
• 1:11:47
  for spending some scarce time find out energy telling us the
• 1:11:49
  tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
• 1:11:53
  My pleasure annually.