Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #220: Jay Walls-Midway University

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#220: Jay Walls-Midway University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and field world, you were now tuned in.
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  To a home servant, Mike Cunningham for another
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  extraordinary message for Gill Athletics connections.
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  We welcome to the show with the go to appreciate the coach.
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  know till you know who you are inside. 6,000,000 waist to tie.
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  from the experts. But y'all got to put in the
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  legwork guilt. Athletics is the network.
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  To every track coach could be blessed.
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  Here we are back again on the Gill Athletics Connections
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  podcast. I'm so humbled to be your host
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  Mike Cunningham, National Business Development Manager
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  here for Gill Athletics and part time podcast host.
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  This is actually part of my job, which is crazy.
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  You know how in your job description you have other
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  duties as a sign? Cuz it was never in my job
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  duties as hey create and host a podcast Uplifting and honoring
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  coaches But. Here we are on episode 220.
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  That means we've had over 220 coaches on the program.
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  And I'm super excited about today's guest.
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  Let's hop right into it. Help me welcome the head coach
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  from Midway University in beautiful Kentucky.
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  It's, you know, that's like a stone's throw from where we are.
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  Help me welcome the wise, the wonderful Mr. J.
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  Walls. Jay, how are you, Sir?
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  Hey, I'm doing doing great, Mike.
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  Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
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  Absolutely. And you said you're just outside
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  of Lexington. I've, I've gone down to
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  Lexington and Frankfurt and some other places down there.
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  And Kentucky a lot, man. Beautiful, beautiful country out
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  there. Oh it is.
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  I mean we're we're pretty much in the the thoroughbred you know
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  horse capital of the world matter of fact our our campus is
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  has about 180. Acre Working horse Farm on it.
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  So we have about 38 to 40 of our own horses right here on campus.
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  Beautiful campus. I don't know why that would
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  surprise me. I just expect every school in
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  Kentucky actually even down, like middle schools have their
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  own stables in Kentucky. Yes, Sir.
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  It's it's beautiful around here, that's for sure.
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  Now what's Midway's mascot are you like?
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  Because I know, Murray states. The racers, you know has the
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  horse, right? Are you any kind of horse racing
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  affiliation or? No, we're just the Eagles.
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  That's all we have. Makes sense.
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  You know Lexington? Kentucky's the Wildcats.
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  That's not a, you know, a thing. Hey, my favorite joke for
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  Kentucky. Are you ready for this?
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  Yes, if it's a joke about Kentucky, I'm definitely.
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  Ready. Well, it is it reference.
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  Everybody's from Kentucky. Don't get mad.
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  This is not a joke about the Kentucky.
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  My favorite joke. I love this joke.
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  You know I'm a dad now so these are you know, this is right up
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  my alley as far as dad jokes. How do you Jay, you live in
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  Kentucky. How do you pronounce?
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  The capital of Kentucky, Louisville or Lewisville?
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  Frankfurt. Yeah, Dang it, you got it.
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  We actually live in Frankfurt. So.
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  That was a good try. Good try.
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  I realized I said the name of it too, earlier.
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  And I was like, oh, I've already kind of tipped it off.
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  I was like, oh man. But you know, it would have been
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  even worse if you, living in Kentucky didn't know it.
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  So I I'm bravo. Good job.
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  Yeah, but I'm from. Louisville.
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  There you go, Louisville. Well, let's get into it, man.
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  You say you're from Louisville. That's a I love Louisville.
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  We love going down there for vacations and stuff.
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  That's great. Let's hop back into our way back
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  machine here, Jay, where you know at some point athletics,
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  assuming you were an athlete somewhere in your mind, it had
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  to start switching for you. That instead of coaching, just
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  being something that's done to you.
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  Jay, go run this, go lift that, throw this etcetera to switch
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  where I had to be like oh, wait a minute.
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  Like, I could actually be a like that could be a career for me.
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  Where does coaching start for you?
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  Well, for myself, it actually started in high school for me
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  when I was in middle school. I lived in Eastern Kentucky at
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  that time and we only had one track meet a year with the
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  county track meet. So 7th and 8th grade I did that
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  those two years. But my father was actually a
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  runner. He ran one year at the
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  University of Louisville before him going into the military.
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  But. So he kind of had a background
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  in it, but I would say so when I got in high school.
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  But I was a I was one of those young kids.
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  It was like a sponge and like I was a student of the sport like
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  so. And my, my high school coach was
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  really great. Like every year he would, you
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  know, send out a like regional preview meet like he had this
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  packet that he would give, you know, all incoming freshmen for
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  their first year and he did that every year.
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  And so it was like you could go through and he had all the teams
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  listed their top returners and so like I would just go through
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  and just soak that up and just truly, truly enjoyed that wait
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  so if runners. For football they have, you
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  know, the the scouting report. You're telling me your coach had
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  that for track? Yes Sir.
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  And this is back in 1992, dude. I love that.
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  You know we almost named the podcast The Gill Shoutout
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  Podcast. Do you remember Coach's name?
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  Who was? This is amazing.
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  Oh, it's James Jackson. He's still one of my best
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  friends of this day is. That right.
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  James Jackson making scouting reports.
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  Most people just know him by coach.
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  I'd say 85% of the people don't even know his first name, but
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  everybody knows him by coach. But yes, he finally retired.
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  Last year was his first year, not coaching, but even though
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  there's like a 40 year age difference, he's still one of my
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  best friends to this day. We get together and go out to
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  eat. Play cards and all that.
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  He's just, he's a truly great man and was a huge influence in
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  my life and a role model for me for sure.
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  So he created these scouting reports and you said you were a
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  student of the sport, so do you just soak these things up?
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  You already know. Yes Sir, I did.
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  And then just, you know, my dad got runners world.
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  So you know, I was always constantly, you know, flipping
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  through that and checking on that cuz you know, that's pretty
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  much all we had back in the day. We didn't have all the Internet
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  access and. And everything online like we do
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  now. So it was just waiting for that
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  day where it would come in the mail to get it and open it up
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  and just go right through it. But I've been like that with
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  sports pretty much my whole life.
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  It was the same way with the paper.
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  As soon as the paper would come in, I was grabbing that sports
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  section, just always going through, reading everything that
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  I could. I've always been a reader, and
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  so I truly enjoy trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can.
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  You know, it used to be about just all sports in general, but
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  now it's just with so much time consuming.
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  It's really just trying to stick, you know, to A to a cross
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  country and track. So as you were going through
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  high school there with Coach Jackson and again I just love
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  that he was doing a scouting report, it makes me like wonder
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  like was anybody else doing scouting report?
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  No one ever did a scouting report for me.
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  That is so cool. What was your relationship with
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  him at that time? And what I mean that is more of
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  the relationship with Coach as far as like did you think at.
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  As you're going through high school and obviously he had an
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  amazing impact on your life that you're like you.
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  You mentioned that you guys are best friends today.
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  I love that. Obviously that shows the
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  positive impact he made on you. And I can almost guarantee
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  hundreds of others of kids that he has coached throughout the
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  thousands of kids he has coached throughout his career.
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  Did you look to him as like, Oh yeah, I want to be, I want to be
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  a I want to be coach. I want to be Coach Jackson one
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  day. Or was it more of like, Yep,
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  this is a great time. You know, we're together 2-3
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  hours a day. But I'm, you know, I'm going to
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  go become a fireman or a cop or businessman, whatever.
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  Yeah, it wasn't there originally.
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  And Coach Jackson, he's a very eccentric coach, You know, he's
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  he's, he's loud, he's brash, which, you know, my background's
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  distancing. So for a distance coach, you
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  know, that was kind of. You know unheard of.
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  So he kind of would rub you know some other coaches the wrong way
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  so and our program got pretty good pretty fast and so there
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  was just some some issues with that too and and no we actually
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  used to always make fun of him. It's sad to say and and I hate
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  saying it but we used to always make fun of them just you know,
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  but but the one thing you could tell is that he truly loved and
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  cared about all of us and he truly cared about the sports and
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  progress in the sport in our school.
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  And the one thing that he did is he advocated for us so much in,
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  in our high school. I mean we had a wall of fame in
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  our high school, which you know, that's back then, you know, I
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  mean he had our pictures for like, you know, freshman of the
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  year, like he would put all that stuff and he had his own section
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  of the wall. So he definitely advocated for
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  us. And so that's kind of where I
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  learned, you know, how to advocate for my student athletes
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  obviously today but not at 1st and but I mean obviously I was a
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  student in the sport and so I did just, you know, I wanted to.
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  To go to school and then hopefully run at the collegiate
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  level and then become a high school teacher and a coach, that
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  was the goal probably, I can say from probably about junior year
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  of high school, yeah, that was when I finally clicked and said
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  okay, I think I would like to get into coaching.
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  You know, but it was definitely at the high school level
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  originally. It's the only plan that I had.
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  When it when it clicked for you like, OK, I'm going to go to
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  school and we'll find out where you went to school.
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  And if you did get to run collegiate track and field, I
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  never want to assume any of our coaches were college athletes
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  because that's still a very small fraternity that actually
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  go on to compete college. That's still like to me, no
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  matter where you go on to run college, like that's a big deal.
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  Like not everybody's going on to do that.
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  So I don't ever want to assume that, but we'll learn that here
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  in a second. I'm curious when it clicked for
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  you sometime your junior year of like, OK, I'm going to go to
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  school, hoefully run, but I'm going to become a teacher so I
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  can become a high school teacher and high school coach.
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  Did you? Observe things differently, like
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  when coach Jackson would give the workout instead of just like
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  Okay, it's 5 by 800 meter time or whatever.
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  Oh Okay. I wonder why he's assigning this
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  5 by 800. And and we did this yesterday,
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  so how does that. Did you look at it differently
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  at that point? That's still, you know, you're
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  1617 years old so you're excused to say no that you did, but I'm
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  just curious when it finally clicked that, you know, I do
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  want to do this. Did you look at the workout
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  structure differently? Say, I wouldn't just being fully
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  honest, I wouldn't say that at that time I just was like, you
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  know, I enjoy the sport so much and I was like, you know, I
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  could see myself doing this for the rest of my life, you know,
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  being a teacher and being a coach.
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  No, I didn't really try to to to get into the exercise Physiology
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  or anything like that or the wise at that time, Just being
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  completely honest, I was just like, hey, this is kind of cool,
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  you know, I would like to do this and like once again, so
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  young and naive, didn't have a clue how much really goes into
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  it. Yeah, I don't think most of us
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  do because I I think the majority of us who are athletes
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  that go on to coach when we initially get into coach and we
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  fall back to how we were coach. Now, that doesn't mean we I
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  would say nitpicked it or analyzed it.
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  So the reason why we. Coach the way we were coaches
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  because, you know, I remember Coach Jackson giving me die and
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  then, you know, the next day was this and it was just like, Oh
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  yeah, no, no, I remember Coach Jackson gave us 5 by 800.
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  So first day of practice, guess what we're going to do?
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  We're going to do 5 by 800, you know, So I don't think most of
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  us do even early. Now we've had coaches here on
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  the podcast that, you know, grew up as coaches kids and were
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  like, Oh yeah, since 3rd grade. I knew I was going to be a coach
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  and they still, they were like, okay, Dad, don't me to run.
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  So I just went and ran. I didn't, you know.
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  Question or think about it or analyze it.
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  So I think that's that's pretty common.
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  And that's the same thing we did.
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  And that's it's funny you say that cuz we actually, as we got
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  older and we got into coaching, we would always mess with coach
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  Jackson and be like, was there any rhyme or any reason to what
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  you were having us do, You know, it's and so we always poke with
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  you because we were, we didn't do a lot of miles.
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  It was very, you know, a lot of shorter, faster stuff.
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  But what he did do is he made it fun like, you know, he would
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  have. You know, just a typical workout
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  we're doing like a double, double on a heel.
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  But he would have like the slower guys go out first where,
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  you know, you had to run and catch him.
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  And so he, he incorporated a bunch of stuff, you know, like
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  that. But he definitely always made it
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  fun. But yeah, we did kind of always
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  jab at him. Like did you even know what you
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  were doing back then? Just just messing with him?
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  But he did he, his results speak for themselves.
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  So I think we we lose sight of that F word you just said.
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  They're fun. You know, we recently had Sean
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  McCafferty up at Christian Brothers Academy on the podcast,
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  and I think one of the quotes he said I might be paraphrasing
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  here a little bit is the science doesn't matter as much as you
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  think it does. And and what he was saying was
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  he was talking about culture, actually.
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  And he was like, you know, having the kids buy in, buy in
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  for each other, buy in for the coach and vice versa.
• 13:07
  You'll get much better results out of that.
• 13:09
  There's, there's a little thing going on Twitter right now about
• 13:12
  trampoline training for Sprinter.
• 13:14
  Doing different things on trampoline and some people are
• 13:17
  on the one side of like, well, this does nothing for you as an
• 13:19
  athlete and a sprinter, blah blah blah.
• 13:21
  And then others on the other side are like, yeah, but you
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  know what? The kids enjoy it, but the kids
• 13:25
  have fun and you know. Something different?
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  Yeah, that's important. I think we forget about that all
• 13:29
  the way up through the highest levels.
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  We tend to like, for some reason, go like, oh, fun, sure,
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  if you're coaching high school. Knock yourself out and have fun
• 13:38
  with the kids. But in college we can't do that.
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  We got to be, you know, straight and narrow and blah, blah, blah,
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  blah and all the stuff. And it's like, man, even in
• 13:44
  college you're dealing with 18 to 22 year olds.
• 13:46
  We're still dealing with kids. Shouldn't it be fun?
• 13:49
  I mean, at the end of the day, it's sports, right?
• 13:50
  So shouldn't it be fun? So I like that that that was a
• 13:54
  focus of Coach Jackson. If you will, you gave us one
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  example. Is there any other examples you
• 13:59
  can think of of where like yeah, you know Coach Jacks and this
• 14:02
  was just a fun workout. This was just for us to get to
• 14:05
  know each other and and be able to run for each other versus
• 14:09
  this was a lactic workout. Yeah, no, that's, I mean just
• 14:14
  every day just just personality, you know, like he would take
• 14:17
  time, you know, the beginning of the day and we would, you know,
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  we would talk, you know, as a team.
• 14:21
  Go over the workout, what we were doing.
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  But now we also did a lot of stuff outside of practice
• 14:26
  together, which I think was huge.
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  Now, some of that wasn't fun at the time.
• 14:30
  A lot of it was like fundraising, like this guy was.
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  I mean, we fundraised during the summer, like every weekend we
• 14:36
  were having a car wash. At our school, but also while
• 14:39
  we're doing the car wash at our school, the parents are are
• 14:41
  doing a yard sale over on the side, you know, so like he would
• 14:44
  get those where they were in conjunction together.
• 14:46
  So the kids are working the car wash and the parents are, you
• 14:48
  know, donating all the items they don't need or want anymore.
• 14:51
  And so then we're doing a, you know, a yard sale for that.
• 14:54
  And so he, he implemented A fundraising system.
• 14:57
  And so we would travel all across the Southeast and and
• 15:02
  Midwest a little bit like we would go up to Ohio, Indiana,
• 15:05
  Tennessee, Alabama. Just numerous different states,
• 15:09
  just, you know, but we worked and we earned that.
• 15:12
  And I think a lot of that, you know, that team culture came
• 15:16
  through us all working very hard together.
• 15:18
  You know, I think that helped as well because we're all out
• 15:20
  there, you know, every summer just, you know, working, doing
• 15:22
  the fundraisers, we parked cars at university of local
• 15:24
  basketball games and, you know, 6 inches of snow, I mean, you
• 15:27
  named it and that stuff. When you do that stuff together,
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  you know, you kind of create a brotherhood because our programs
• 15:32
  were separate. It was male and female, so.
• 15:34
  And then, but he was always the one leading the charge.
• 15:36
  Like, you know, he led by example.
• 15:38
  And so that's one thing that I definitely learned from him and
• 15:40
  I try to hope to, you know, continue to instill in in myself
• 15:43
  in our program is just, you know, trying to lead by example
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  because he was out there parking cars with, He's out there
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  washing cars with us. You know, he wasn't over there
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  in the shade, you know, drinking his lemonade or anything like
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  that. But I think just a lot of those
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  times that we just did stuff outside of running together, you
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  know, like that just even though it was work, it was still fun,
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  you know, that's kind of helped create that bond and that
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  brotherhood and. But anytime you know how it is,
• 16:05
  anytime when you're out there, practice, you know, 2 hours a
• 16:07
  day and you're out there sweating sometimes bleeding, you
• 16:09
  know, sometimes crying together, like you know it's you just
• 16:12
  create that bond also. So he was just a very just you'd
• 16:17
  have to meet him. Hopefully you can because like
• 16:20
  he's he's just a very great guy and he's has so many student
• 16:23
  athletes just still for a part of his life, you know, and just
• 16:26
  that he hangs out with and everything and that just shows
• 16:29
  how much that he impacted. You know, so many young men that
• 16:32
  came to his program. I love it.
• 16:35
  I love it. James Jackson, if you're
• 16:36
  listening, man, obviously what an impact you made on Jay here.
• 16:40
  But I guarantee you there are other people who are listening
• 16:42
  and not listening that you made amazing, positive impacts on.
• 16:45
  So shout out to you because that is absolutely what it's all
• 16:48
  about at the beginning and the end of the day, my friend.
• 16:51
  So, so glad to hear about your story there as well.
• 16:55
  So, Jay, you decide you're junior year.
• 16:58
  Yep. This is what I'm gonna do.
• 16:59
  I'm gonna become a teacher. I'm gonna coach.
• 17:01
  I'm gonna be Coach Jackson. I'm gonna have as much fun
• 17:05
  parking cars with my kids, athletes as Coach Jackson does.
• 17:09
  Where did you end up going to school?
• 17:11
  And did you end up running at college?
• 17:14
  Yes Sir, I did. I ended up going down to Austin
• 17:16
  Peay State University down in Clarksville, TN, and ran for
• 17:20
  Elvis Ford. Elvis Ford, is that right?
• 17:23
  Yes, that's awesome. The the governors, right.
• 17:28
  Yeah, that is correct. Austin Peak governors.
• 17:30
  Nice. So you go in and you study like,
• 17:37
  not physical education, not like an education major.
• 17:40
  Health and Human performance. So that's this is when I started
• 17:42
  getting into the alright, the exercise science part.
• 17:45
  So I went into A and majored in Health and Human performance and
• 17:48
  minored in education. So the plan was to go be a
• 17:51
  health and APE process. I'm sorry health and PE teacher
• 17:55
  and then cross country and track coach, but also minored in
• 17:58
  history. So history.
• 17:59
  I loved history. So just in case, I wanted to
• 18:01
  keep being a history teacher in there as well too.
• 18:03
  So I was trying to keep a couple options open.
• 18:05
  So you weren't busy enough. You're like, you know what, let
• 18:07
  me just throw in another. Like the minor here as well.
• 18:10
  Let's go history. This is something I enjoyed so
• 18:13
  it doesn't like. Classes weren't seem like work
• 18:16
  or anything. I truly enjoy history so.
• 18:19
  Yeah, that's where we're different, Jay.
• 18:20
  We're very, I didn't like history at all.
• 18:24
  And then I did take an American history class in college and
• 18:28
  actually did really, really did enjoy that for some reason.
• 18:31
  But the now my history comes from, you know, I watch the
• 18:35
  musical Hamilton. That's how I now know of
• 18:37
  history. Like I learned so much more
• 18:39
  about Hamilton through Hamilton, about America and how it's
• 18:42
  founded than I ever did. And then the history books,
• 18:45
  that's for sure. Oh, that's my step, children.
• 18:47
  They love Hamilton. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I see.
• 18:50
  This is, This is why the podcasts are two hours long,
• 18:54
  Jay, cuz I can't help but interject my own stories.
• 18:56
  So I refused to watch Hamilton and my daughter was like,
• 19:00
  please, please, please. And I was like, oh man.
• 19:03
  I was like, fine, I'll. I'll tell her.
• 19:04
  You know what? I'll give you 15 minutes and
• 19:06
  then I I'm out. And then I was, I started
• 19:08
  feeling bad as a dad. I was like, you know what, Gosh,
• 19:10
  if my daughter wants me to watch some show, I can.
• 19:14
  I can make it through. There's worse things out there.
• 19:16
  I've never, I've never watched a musical.
• 19:18
  So I just was, you know, afraid of it, you know?
• 19:20
  And I don't even think I knew that it was hip hop, you know,
• 19:22
  and and rap based, which is my favorite genre.
• 19:25
  So I think I'd have been more excited if I'd have known that.
• 19:28
  But we we go downstairs and I'm thinking, yeah, 15 minutes, I'm
• 19:30
  going to be out, man. I was enthralled the whole time.
• 19:35
  And ever since that day. And this was COVID.
• 19:37
  So it was three years ago. Those songs have lived in my
• 19:39
  head. In fact, me, my wife, my
• 19:42
  daughter and my motherinlaw this summer went to Indianapolis and
• 19:46
  watched it on on stage. So we got the stage, Yeah.
• 19:49
  They went up to Chicago and watched it.
• 19:51
  I didn't go. I haven't seen it myself either,
• 19:53
  but. You haven't seen it at all, like
• 19:55
  on Disney Plus. Dude sure haven't.
• 19:59
  Dude, homework, you've got to go.
• 20:02
  It's. Put that on not To Do List I
• 20:04
  mean. From the jump, the very first
• 20:06
  songs, the very first looks, the lyrics coming around at the bat
• 20:10
  is like, oh, OK, this is catchy and it only keeps getting
• 20:12
  better. I mean, it's all right.
• 20:13
  Homework. Seriously, put on your list,
• 20:15
  move a couple of, you know, take some recruits down a couple
• 20:18
  notches. You don't have to worry about
• 20:19
  all that kind of stuff and just go straight into watching
• 20:21
  Hamilton, OK? It'll.
• 20:23
  I don't want to overstate it, but it'll change your life.
• 20:26
  That's what I hear. A lot of people like it.
• 20:27
  It's amazing. That might be a little.
• 20:29
  It's some of the songs and the soundtrack.
• 20:30
  I've definitely heard that. That's the same ones probably
• 20:33
  over and over for like, yeah. Alexa is tired of us here.
• 20:38
  And I say, Alexa, play Hamilton the soundtrack.
• 20:40
  You know? Yeah.
• 20:41
  All right, let's get back to one of my favorite people.
• 20:43
  Elvis Ford was your college track coach.
• 20:47
  That's. Awesome.
• 20:47
  How was that man? At first like I was just
• 20:51
  starstruck. At first I remember going down
• 20:53
  onto my official visit, you know, and talking to him and it
• 20:56
  sounds like you definitely know Elvis and you know he he's a man
• 21:00
  that it seemed like to me when I first got there.
• 21:03
  Obviously like style of starstruck.
• 21:04
  I was like he'd been at 2 Olympics.
• 21:06
  I was like yeah this man's the real deal and then you know got
• 21:09
  there and and and he's one of those guys that you know he's
• 21:12
  very quiet and you know he's he was he's still built like he's
• 21:16
  still you know. He still can go run like 47, at
• 21:19
  least right now. No, that's funny that you say
• 21:21
  that because when I was in college we would go back to
• 21:24
  Southern Illinois where he finished at his last two years.
• 21:26
  He was at Murray for two years and went so annoying, finished
• 21:29
  his his last two years because I think Murray's coach went up
• 21:32
  there and so we would go up there for one of their indoor
• 21:36
  meets. It was there because it lined up
• 21:37
  with their homecoming weekend. So he would go up there and do
• 21:40
  all that and and he would still jump in there indoor meets and
• 21:43
  run. Seconds and whoop up on most of
• 21:45
  college guys. Like, legit.
• 21:47
  He was 40 years old. 4. Years old or close to 40, yeah
• 21:53
  he was. He was a stud and and so but you
• 21:56
  know at first he was very intimidating, you know because
• 21:58
  he's quiet, you know, and of course he's got that look on his
• 22:01
  face all the time and didn't say anything unless it needed to be
• 22:04
  said type guy. You know, like you know
• 22:06
  business. But when I was there, I think it
• 22:10
  was my sophomore year, I had a. Female cousin passed away that
• 22:15
  I'd lived with for part of my life.
• 22:16
  So she was also kind of like a sister to me.
• 22:19
  So it was a very tough and difficult part of my my life.
• 22:23
  And you know, he brought me into his office and he told me, he
• 22:27
  said, you know, family's very important.
• 22:29
  He said I don't want you to think about us.
• 22:30
  He said you just go, you know, go to the funeral, go with your
• 22:32
  family, you know more and do whatever you need to.
• 22:34
  Don't worry about us. We'll be here, you know, when
• 22:35
  you can come back and so. You know, I did that.
• 22:39
  And then I came back and it was still kind of just tough.
• 22:41
  And I remember going into his office and talking to him.
• 22:43
  And then like, he opened up a whole another person that I
• 22:46
  didn't even know was there, you know?
• 22:48
  And I was like, okay, this guy really does care.
• 22:50
  But, you know, I knew he did Ultimately, like, I just saw
• 22:52
  that real like, caring side of him.
• 22:54
  And he probably doesn't even know this to this day.
• 22:57
  But it just helped me so much. And I was like, okay, this guy
• 23:00
  is human. He's not just, you know, a
• 23:03
  coaching robot or, you know, just a track athlete robot.
• 23:07
  And so it just showed me that he truly cared.
• 23:09
  And so he's another one of the reasons why I got into coaching.
• 23:12
  You know, he gave me my first coaching opportunity as a
• 23:14
  student assistant, so. At Austin Pete.
• 23:18
  Yes, Sir, my so. So you went through, you
• 23:21
  finished out your degree. If things were going the way you
• 23:24
  finished out with an education degree.
• 23:27
  Well, like I said, it was a little this little different.
• 23:31
  My freshman year I got registered because I got a
• 23:33
  stress fracture, so I had that fifth year and so the 5th year.
• 23:37
  I came back and ran in the fall for Cross and then in the spring
• 23:40
  I still had some classes to take cuz that's my own fault.
• 23:43
  That's a whole another story. Had a little bit too much fun
• 23:46
  sometimes in college. And so he's like, well, hey,
• 23:49
  he's like, you know, I'll still pay for this, you know, last
• 23:51
  semester just come on and be a student assistant and help me
• 23:54
  out, you know, with the team. And in any passing I was like,
• 23:57
  hey, heck yeah, I was like, you know, this is what I want to get
• 23:59
  into. So I said might as well and then
• 24:00
  I'll do anything that I can to help.
• 24:02
  And so I did, and we ended up winning the OBC Indoor
• 24:05
  Championships. And so after that I was like,
• 24:08
  then you really get that adrenaline rush and like, man,
• 24:12
  so this is nice. And so that kind of was like,
• 24:17
  all right, college coaching is really, really fun and I could
• 24:21
  get used to this. But then I graduated and I
• 24:23
  stayed in Clarksville and just worked.
• 24:25
  I was working at like I think of YMCAI was getting paid to be a
• 24:29
  big kid, so I loved it. I was doing summer day camp,
• 24:32
  worked in the teen center. We had a teen center.
• 24:35
  I was like, this isn't director of our basketball league.
• 24:37
  So I just stayed in the area and was just working at the YMCA and
• 24:44
  Elvis end up leaving and he went to Illinois State.
• 24:46
  So they brought in a new coach who came from Simo.
• 24:51
  And Yvonne Hintilo, she was an athlete there.
• 24:54
  And I think she was an assistant there and she came and got the
• 24:55
  head position. And so she needed some help with
• 24:58
  the distance side of things. And so Lisa, who was still a
• 25:01
  young lady, I'm on the team with working the summer day camp as a
• 25:04
  counselor. She's like, hey, you know, coach
• 25:07
  is looking for some help. And I was like, really, I was
• 25:08
  like, well, tell her I'm interested.
• 25:10
  And so she did. And then so me and her, you
• 25:12
  know, got up and and met together and she, she offered me
• 25:15
  the, you know, as a parttime assistant, you know, position.
• 25:19
  But, you know, I was so young and naive, as I mentioned
• 25:21
  before, we hopped on here that I didn't realize how hard it was
• 25:24
  to get into college coaching. And you know, I just kind of did
• 25:28
  you know what I knew of at the time and what I've been through
• 25:31
  it, as you mentioned earlier. So it was just kind of just all
• 25:35
  right, you know, just had a lot of fun.
• 25:38
  And so I did that for he left, I think after a year and during
• 25:43
  that summer, I was like the only person kind of there while they
• 25:46
  were searching for head coach. So I guess you.
• 25:48
  That's I could say it was an interim tag and so just focused
• 25:52
  on recruiting. So that was like my real first
• 25:56
  experience with like recruiting because she handled most of it
• 25:59
  beforehand. But when you're there for three
• 26:01
  months, I mean somebody has to keep, you know, the ship afloat.
• 26:04
  And so I mean I just did what I knew.
• 26:06
  So I just go down looking at results and then you know,
• 26:09
  reaching out, making contacts to school, trying to figure out,
• 26:11
  you know, get phone numbers. And so now I got on the phone
• 26:13
  and hop on the phone and. And that just like really was my
• 26:16
  first experience for recruiting. And I was like recruiting's
• 26:18
  awesome. I was like, I like this cuz I'm
• 26:20
  an introvert. But when it comes to like
• 26:22
  one-on-one, I love getting to know people and develop those
• 26:25
  relationships. And that's the thing that I love
• 26:27
  about recruiting cuz everybody's so different, you know?
• 26:29
  And so getting kind of like we're doing here, getting to
• 26:31
  know each other's story and their background, cuz for me as
• 26:34
  a coach, that's so important to me, you know?
• 26:37
  Like, I know, you know. Connor, the runner, I want to
• 26:41
  know more about. Connor, the person you know what
• 26:43
  do you enjoy and things like that.
• 26:46
  So that way you know you can figure out what makes you know
• 26:48
  each individual tick and and how learn how to motivate them and
• 26:52
  all that so. You know, you said something
• 26:55
  there that that was interesting. I'm fascinated by introvertness
• 26:59
  versus extrovertness, right? And I struggled for a long time
• 27:05
  because. I I tend to act like an
• 27:10
  extrovert. Like I think people if they were
• 27:11
  say, hey, you know, what would you put Mike Cunningham as
• 27:14
  introvert or extrovert? I think they would, they would
• 27:16
  go towards extrovert. And and certainly I do.
• 27:19
  I can, you know, I I love working a room and all that kind
• 27:22
  of stuff, you know, But it it does tire me.
• 27:24
  Like, I go home and I'm like, I I want to be myself for, you
• 27:27
  know, 12 hours. Right.
• 27:29
  And the introvert says, Oh yeah, man, talking to someone takes it
• 27:33
  out of me. I need to, I need a loan time
• 27:36
  for the next, you know, like I'll talk for one hour.
• 27:38
  I need six hours alone time. I almost six to one ratio,
• 27:40
  right. And it really helped me.
• 27:41
  I can't remember what book it was, but I learned the term.
• 27:45
  So I thought introvert and extrovert was like a light
• 27:47
  switch. You know, it's been on or off,
• 27:49
  You're introvert or you're extrovert.
• 27:50
  And this book I read probably by like Daniel Pink or something
• 27:53
  like that talked about that it's actually a spectrum and that
• 27:58
  very few of us are far right introvertness.
• 28:03
  For far left extrovertedness that we actually fall on the
• 28:06
  scale and that most people actually kind of send to hit
• 28:10
  right in the middle. And they actually have a term
• 28:11
  for that. They call it ambivert, a MB
• 28:13
  IVERT, ambivert. There's some some things and
• 28:16
  sometimes where extrovertness is, is very natural to you.
• 28:20
  And then there's other times where it's like, Oh yeah, I need
• 28:22
  to be my introvertedness self here as well.
• 28:24
  And so I say all that to say, you know, it's interesting when
• 28:27
  you think about. Coaching on an introvert versus
• 28:30
  extrovert scale. Because I I think most people I
• 28:33
  think would say, Oh yeah, if you're an introvert, you're
• 28:37
  going to be at a disadvantage on recruiting.
• 28:40
  But you then followed it up by saying something very
• 28:44
  interesting to me when you said, oh, I love the one-on-one.
• 28:47
  Like I love getting to know the person.
• 28:49
  So it makes me feel like if. Jay had to go to a track meet
• 28:54
  and hey, here's 30 kids that you're going to talk to and give
• 28:56
  out your business card and your website and talk about your
• 28:59
  program that you can still maybe do it does not, doesn't mean you
• 29:03
  can't do it, but it's like, oh man, after those thirty kids and
• 29:06
  those 30 questions and parents. Just I need it back.
• 29:09
  Like I got to do that tomorrow. Oh, don't make me do that
• 29:12
  tomorrow, but on the 101. So I was just curious have you
• 29:15
  seen that? I kind of give you an example
• 29:17
  there. Unfortunately, I kind of biased
• 29:18
  you there a little bit. Have you seen that in yourself
• 29:20
  of where? Yeah.
• 29:21
  When I'm one-on-one with a recruit or recruiting their
• 29:23
  parent. Man I'm I'm golden.
• 29:26
  But man, when it's a when I have to pitch to the family, you
• 29:29
  know, I go do a home visit mom and grandpa and coach and kid
• 29:32
  and little brother like, oh, I actually probably don't do that
• 29:35
  great of a job. Have you seen that in yourself?
• 29:38
  You know, I probably do misspeak and what you said makes a lot of
• 29:40
  sense. And I think probably a lot of it
• 29:43
  just has to go to, you know, in my brain and what most people
• 29:46
  consider to be the, you know, the number one fear of most
• 29:49
  people, which is public speaking.
• 29:51
  Obviously, when I'm comfortable in my elements, it usually
• 29:54
  doesn't really bother me at all. But I've also just, I guess I
• 29:58
  should say I'm more of an observer instead of a person
• 30:01
  that just goes out. So maybe that's a better, better
• 30:03
  wording or a better label for me as I'm more of an observer
• 30:06
  instead of an introvert. You know, I'm that guy.
• 30:09
  Whenever we go out, I'm always just sitting out you know heads
• 30:11
  kind of on swivel just checking everything out, you know and but
• 30:14
  I mean I feel like I actually it's and it's not just
• 30:17
  one-on-one, you know, like when I have the family there too, you
• 30:19
  know, I mean I feel comfortable. I guess it's more so when I'm in
• 30:21
  my element, you know, it's like I'm like all right and I can
• 30:24
  just kind of flow and just go kind of like right now.
• 30:27
  You know, it's just you know just great conversation just
• 30:29
  flow back and forth and and also when it's something that I'm
• 30:33
  truly care about and I'm so passionate about.
• 30:37
  It's like I it's not an issue. And like when I get people here
• 30:40
  for for campus visits or if you're going to do a home visit,
• 30:43
  you know, even if it's ten people when it's something I'm
• 30:45
  passionate about and I just have so much in my like I get so
• 30:48
  excited because I have so much in my head that I want to talk
• 30:51
  about our program and our university.
• 30:53
  And so then it's just probably more like just instead of like
• 30:57
  you know the the, yeah, the reserve to you know, quiet laid
• 31:00
  back type they're. They're like, I thought this guy
• 31:02
  was an introvert. What in the world?
• 31:04
  Exactly. But when it comes to our
• 31:05
  program, like our university, you know, it's I just I get so
• 31:09
  excited, you know, especially when I get campus visits.
• 31:11
  You know, people are here to talk about it.
• 31:13
  You know, and it's just like, I mean yesterday I've had we've
• 31:15
  had three campus visits in the past two days and like when I
• 31:19
  get you know, the family's here, I just get so excited.
• 31:22
  And it's you know, cuz it's. It's a lot to give somebody when
• 31:26
  you're spending, you know, three to to six hours or however long
• 31:29
  it might be, you know with them. And that's the thing as you
• 31:33
  know, they're all different, you know, But I mean yesterday was a
• 31:36
  really good one and it was probably about six or seven
• 31:38
  hours, you know, so and when I get in that and that and
• 31:42
  unfortunately that's what I tell them too because like well, you
• 31:44
  know, do all of our things and we'll come back from office and
• 31:46
  we'll just be sitting there talking and I still just have so
• 31:48
  much information. But I'm trying to get to him and
• 31:51
  I'm like I have to look and I'll be like.
• 31:53
  Are you on a time crunch? You know, like do you had like
• 31:55
  is there a certain time you have to be out of here?
• 31:57
  I'm like cuz I can hold you hostage all day long.
• 32:00
  I can sit here and talk, you know, cross country and track
• 32:03
  all day long. I can sit here and talk, you
• 32:04
  know, Midway University all day long, you know, and definitely
• 32:08
  do that. But but as I said, a lot of that
• 32:10
  time is also I choose not to focus on that time, cuz like I
• 32:14
  said, I want to know more about them.
• 32:15
  You know, like you know, have you lived where you're coming
• 32:18
  from your whole life and just you know, you have you bounced
• 32:20
  around and. Because that's just so, so
• 32:22
  important to me as a coach, especially during that
• 32:24
  recruiting process, you know, because it's important for me
• 32:27
  to, to make sure we're bringing good quality character student
• 32:30
  athletes in our program. So I try to do as much homework
• 32:32
  as I can before they can get here, you know, reaching out to,
• 32:35
  you know, coaches, athletic directors, guidance counselors
• 32:38
  and. See.
• 32:39
  And I've got like the adult ADHD.
• 32:41
  Like, I'll start here and then somehow I end up the way over
• 32:43
  here. No, what we have to be careful
• 32:45
  is I also have that J. So we have to be careful that we
• 32:49
  like that. Yeah, we gotta be careful.
• 32:51
  I have that same thing. And so we, you and I will go,
• 32:54
  we'll be talking about Mars and Martians here in a second and
• 32:56
  it'll it'll all make sense somehow in our brain.
• 32:58
  So yeah, we gotta be careful with that.
• 33:00
  I'm curious about that when you talk about.
• 33:03
  You know it's important to you to know the kid not just the the
• 33:08
  I'm kind of paraphrasing put my own words here not just the
• 33:10
  times and the marks that they've they've done.
• 33:13
  You know I think sometimes we think that recruiting.
• 33:17
  And and sales by the way are just like you either are or you
• 33:21
  are like there's no teaching or anything like that.
• 33:24
  And I do not think that's true at all.
• 33:25
  I certainly thought that when I first got into recruiting as a
• 33:28
  college coach and also when I first got into sales here at Gil
• 33:32
  and you know maybe only took me 17 years, here's a sales
• 33:35
  professional at Gil that I've learned like Oh no, no, it
• 33:38
  there's an actual skill to it because and then the better you
• 33:41
  can become at it, the better you're actually serving in the
• 33:43
  in the sales side. We're actually serving our
• 33:45
  coaches, our our customers if we.
• 33:47
  Become better salespeople. And I think the same thing for
• 33:50
  coaching is like, oh, if you become a better recruiter,
• 33:53
  you're actually serving the the student athlete better because
• 33:57
  you're you're allowing them to not pick you.
• 34:00
  And what I mean by that is, you know, sometimes coaches will
• 34:04
  change who they are and their personality because they really
• 34:07
  want this recruit. But then when the rubber meets
• 34:10
  the road, when they actually get there, it's like, well, you
• 34:11
  know, and you go back to being who you are because you can't
• 34:14
  run from who you actually are, right?
• 34:16
  You know that kids like, wait a minute.
• 34:17
  I thought this coach was this way, but they ain't shown.
• 34:21
  And it's like, well, then it just, you know, that's disaster
• 34:23
  not only for the kid, for you and your program, etcetera.
• 34:26
  So what I'm curious about with you, how did you and maybe
• 34:30
  you're on the other side of this, Jay, maybe you're like,
• 34:32
  oh, yeah, no, no, no. There's it's just personality.
• 34:34
  It's just asking questions when you were first kind of thrown
• 34:37
  into recruiting that summer after your first year of
• 34:40
  parttime coaching at. Yeah, at Austin P, right.
• 34:45
  Yeah. Like, do you remember like the
• 34:49
  first time the first person you called and you're like, what am
• 34:52
  I going to talk about? Or did it come a little easier?
• 34:55
  How did you, how have you steadily maybe improve the way
• 34:58
  you recruit people based on it off of that first three months?
• 35:03
  I remember that very first phone call very vividly.
• 35:05
  It was Ron Sexton from Station Camp High School.
• 35:08
  He was a single a state champ in Tennessee.
• 35:11
  And I remember being so nervous. You know, making that first
• 35:14
  phone call and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, all right
• 35:16
  and like you said, I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm
• 35:19
  going to give it my best shot. And then if I don't even know
• 35:21
  how long it lasted, it probably wasn't very long but it was just
• 35:25
  making that contact that you know, one-on-one contact And and
• 35:28
  for me it was just all about talking about running time.
• 35:30
  Like I said cause I'm so young and I even that's all I knew
• 35:32
  about the whole coaching part. So say hey man, congratulations,
• 35:37
  you know, good season and and all that.
• 35:39
  It wasn't nothing about grades or anything back then, you know
• 35:41
  it was just all running. And so he ended up signing with
• 35:46
  this. But that's one of the reasons
• 35:47
  why I'll never forget that. Yeah, I was wondering, I was
• 35:50
  like, how did you like, did you not sign him?
• 35:52
  And that's how you remember, like how did in the world, did
• 35:54
  you? Remember, no, he he signed, he
• 35:56
  signed me and you know one of the one of the you know the
• 35:59
  better runners that you know Austin Pete had during that era.
• 36:02
  You know and now he's he's back at Station Camp high school and
• 36:06
  he's he's a teacher and a basketball coach and he was
• 36:08
  coaching he was coaching cross country and track also.
• 36:12
  But but yeah, he's a great young man.
• 36:14
  Ron. Ron.
• 36:15
  Squeaky Sexton. Squeaky do you?
• 36:20
  It's funny that you remember your very first one.
• 36:22
  I love that. And your very first one was
• 36:24
  obviously very good state champion thing.
• 36:26
  So you went like, if you had a list of 100 kids, you went
• 36:29
  straight from #1. You didn't.
• 36:31
  Say. Let me knock out some.
• 36:33
  Let me knock out #100 in case I screwed this up, and then 99 in
• 36:36
  case I get just only a little bit better.
• 36:38
  You were like, man, let's go for #1, Let's see what happens.
• 36:41
  It was single right now. So it was the small school in
• 36:43
  Tennessee. But yes, I mean, don't make it.
• 36:45
  Better. That was still a big recruit for
• 36:47
  Austin Fees. That was still a top recruit.
• 36:50
  Yeah, yeah. No, there was a lot that turned
• 36:52
  turned us down though, too. Sure.
• 36:53
  Sure, he was the first one. And so it definitely just
• 36:56
  sticks. And that's why I'll definitely
• 36:57
  never forget that. But but but stay with me on the
• 37:00
  attitude here that that's a that's a unique attitude.
• 37:02
  I should maybe, maybe I don't wanna say unique because all the
• 37:04
  attitudes are unique, but that that's an interesting.
• 37:08
  Take on you, Jay. That again.
• 37:09
  I'm kind of imagining, you know back in the day when I coach,
• 37:11
  when I first started, we literally used to handwrite, you
• 37:13
  know, here's our top 100, you know.
• 37:15
  Yes, the list they'll do. That.
• 37:19
  And you decided this guy was a state champion, so at worst, he
• 37:23
  was top five, top 10 for an Austin P/E And at that time
• 37:25
  frame, you decided to go there instead of like, you know what,
• 37:28
  this could be good for a walk on?
• 37:30
  Let me start with them to get my pattern down, to get what, See
• 37:34
  what resonates with kids, etcetera.
• 37:36
  You were like, I'm going to go for Ryan.
• 37:37
  And you know what if I just vomit?
• 37:39
  OK, well, I'll learn from that and I'll start.
• 37:40
  I'll go back to #2 and talk to Tommy or #3 and I'll talk to Jim
• 37:44
  or whomever. I just think it's interesting
• 37:46
  and and and curious what that says about you.
• 37:49
  And you're, I don't know. Is it risk taking?
• 37:52
  Maybe that's what it is. I don't know.
• 37:55
  I'm usually not big of a risk taker, but I'm more of that
• 37:57
  other guy that's more conservative.
• 37:59
  But like I said, I was just so young and not even I didn't know
• 38:01
  any better. I was like, well, we'll just
• 38:03
  start at the top and work our way down.
• 38:05
  I was like, we'll do top ten in each.
• 38:06
  And then of course I was using my Kentucky connections also.
• 38:10
  So coach Tony Rowe, who's at Davies County, he was Davis
• 38:14
  County's coach for so many years, won so many state
• 38:16
  championships. So I reached out to him, you
• 38:19
  know, and said hey, you know, coaching Boston P now.
• 38:21
  So I never recruiting his son. And another guy they had that
• 38:24
  was the top ten guy in cross country in Kentucky.
• 38:27
  I think Matt was maybe 18th, 19th.
• 38:30
  So we got two guys in Kentucky, I think they were in the top 20
• 38:33
  or 25 as well too. So and that was that first
• 38:35
  recruiting class. I was just like, like I didn't
• 38:38
  know any better. I was like we're shooting for
• 38:39
  the stars. See what happens.
• 38:41
  Do you think we ever get in our own way?
• 38:43
  I love how you said that and you've said it several Times Now
• 38:45
  where I was young. I don't know if you use the word
• 38:48
  dumb, but you know, young dumb didn't know any better.
• 38:51
  You certainly said that. And now you know.
• 38:53
  And we're continuing to learn your journey.
• 38:55
  You're, you know, X years past that until you know, you're much
• 38:57
  smarter now. I don't feel like you're the
• 38:59
  type of person that would say I know it all now.
• 39:01
  You're still learning, but you certainly know more and are more
• 39:04
  experienced today than you were back then.
• 39:07
  Do you think we ever get in our way, like, you know, sometimes?
• 39:10
  There's a positivity to being young and not knowing any better
• 39:13
  and just charging in. And then we get, you know,
• 39:16
  experience and knowledge and you know, we realized that, you
• 39:19
  know, maybe we should hold back here a little bit and plan this
• 39:21
  more, go to this person first. Everything we are, we get in our
• 39:24
  own way from just not being naive enough, sometimes even as
• 39:27
  older people. I think you hit it on the head
• 39:31
  because now I'm kind of like, all right, this is, this is
• 39:33
  where I'm at. This is where we're at.
• 39:35
  Like this is kind of the group that we can get instead of.
• 39:38
  You know, maybe starting at the top, but I'm not afraid to talk,
• 39:41
  you know, to anybody because the worst they're going to tell us
• 39:43
  is no. And then we're not, you know,
• 39:45
  we're not any worse off than we already were.
• 39:46
  So, but I kind of, you know, with where at and the size of
• 39:50
  our school, I'm like, all right, so this is our range.
• 39:52
  So I kind of usually might not start in that top ten.
• 39:54
  I might start at 11 now instead of the top 10, so.
• 39:58
  Maybe. And I don't think what we're
• 40:01
  describing here is unique, I think in a lot of aspects from
• 40:05
  investing in stocks. New jobs in the in the private
• 40:10
  sector, not coaching sector, maybe in the coaching sector who
• 40:14
  we go after as a mate as we get older, I think that's all
• 40:18
  common. You know, you call it risk
• 40:19
  versus reward type system where we take less risk and therefore
• 40:23
  there's less reward. But maybe there's a lesson there
• 40:25
  Jay, about as we maybe have some self-awareness as we become 30
• 40:31
  year old, 40 year old, 50 year old, 60 year old coaches.
• 40:35
  I think you're smart because you know there's resources are
• 40:38
  finite, right? Your time, your energy and your
• 40:40
  scholarship money etcetera are are limited.
• 40:42
  So you know, I would. I would love your pluck if you
• 40:46
  told me, hey, at Midway, I look at the what used to be the dice,
• 40:50
  that list. I don't know what it is anymore
• 40:51
  but Miles split or something. I go to the.
• 40:53
  I go to the I go to the top 10 milers.
• 40:55
  You know. So what do we have six kids at
• 40:56
  ransom for this year, right. I started with Connor Burns and
• 41:00
  I I I don't care if I'm at Midway.
• 41:01
  I'm going to. I'm going to let him tell me.
• 41:03
  No. It's like yeah, yeah.
• 41:03
  Hey, Jay, that's great. Love that.
• 41:05
  You're wasting a lot of time though.
• 41:07
  No offense. I just don't see a stuff for
• 41:10
  Mylar coming to midway, you know?
• 41:12
  So I love. So there has to be realism.
• 41:14
  But using that example, if you're like and I'm going to
• 41:19
  put. Times and stuff that probably
• 41:21
  don't even apply. Just bear with me here as the
• 41:23
  example. If you say yeah, you know we're
• 41:26
  we're not going to recruit a sub for my alert here at Midway but
• 41:29
  we're going to start at 4:15 like we need to like that'll be
• 41:32
  a good champ for us here we'll go 415.
• 41:34
  Maybe there's a lesson there that as we've gotten more
• 41:36
  conservative and less risk and therefore less reward, maybe
• 41:40
  it's not to jump all the way back to like hey you know what,
• 41:42
  I'm going to challenge myself. I'm going to sign a sub four
• 41:45
  minute high schooler. Maybe we don't go that far but
• 41:47
  maybe we go you know what I'm going to try a couple. 4 twelves
• 41:50
  or 4 thirteens this year and the years past, I wouldn't have.
• 41:54
  I just started 4:15. But you know what?
• 41:56
  Let's take a chance. May still hear no to your point
• 41:58
  of okay, but where am I? Am I that worse off?
• 42:02
  But if you just, you know, inch back up there to being a little
• 42:05
  bit more naive and young and not knowing better, I wonder what
• 42:10
  kind of results, you know, positive results might turn out
• 42:13
  for that. And that's something I think
• 42:14
  about when I hear stories like that.
• 42:16
  Well, I tell you what I have started doing the past two years
• 42:19
  is I've went back to old school because, you know, I I work on
• 42:23
  these lists as I was talking about because I'm still old
• 42:25
  school in so many ways. And so I still make those lists,
• 42:28
  you know, and I'll put, you know, I'll, I'll make a list of,
• 42:30
  you know, probably the top 100 kids in Kentucky, you know, not
• 42:33
  go through all that. And I would send 304 hundred
• 42:37
  emails out to these, these high school coaches and not talking
• 42:41
  bad about any coaches, but you know, you send 304 hundred, you
• 42:43
  might get 20 back. And.
• 42:46
  You know, we're, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about
• 42:48
  this, keep going with the story. But, you know, we're gonna talk
• 42:49
  about this. Keep going.
• 42:51
  And so I was like, well, you know, what I'm gonna do is I'm
• 42:53
  going to old school, so I'm writing letters.
• 42:55
  So I started. So now what I do is I send up
• 42:58
  about 300 letters and just send them straight to the schools,
• 43:00
  just like I got when I was in high school.
• 43:02
  Right. You know, so I've started doing
• 43:04
  that and and, you know, and so it's a letter expressing our
• 43:06
  interests, saying how, you know, I think they'd be a great fit
• 43:09
  for us. And you know, then I tell them
• 43:11
  how they can contact me, obviously, you know, number of
• 43:13
  emails, send them a link to the recruiting questionnaire so they
• 43:16
  can get on there, fill that out. And so now I do that part and so
• 43:20
  then they reach out to me then that's when I know they're
• 43:22
  interested. So I've kind of started going
• 43:23
  that route for the last two years.
• 43:25
  Do you have a better response rate with that?
• 43:29
  Well, I still reach out to coaches.
• 43:31
  Also, I'm trying to double dip now and try to, you know.
• 43:33
  But you you said, you know, I'm not holding these specific
• 43:36
  numbers just here, given the rough numbers, you used to
• 43:40
  e-mail 300 coaches and you'd get like 20 back.
• 43:42
  That's less than 10%. If you're writing 300.
• 43:46
  And are you writing or typing, let's be no, no, no, no, that's
• 43:50
  OK We'll talk about that in a second too, where?
• 43:52
  That does not matter to me. I'm just curious, are you
• 43:54
  signing or are you stamp signing?
• 43:57
  Yeah, no, I got there and sign. Everyone.
• 43:59
  Love that. OK, so if you're sending out 300
• 44:02
  letters. Are you still getting 20
• 44:05
  responses? Is it still less?
• 44:06
  Than I would say so because usually what I'll do with the
• 44:09
  usually, well the past two years we've set up a tent at the state
• 44:13
  meet because we're actually a sponsor for our state meet And
• 44:16
  so I'll set up a tent and like so the kids will see the tent
• 44:18
  and they'll be like oh you sent me that letter didn't you
• 44:20
  because I I start I do the juniors.
• 44:22
  I start you know the juniors as when I start November I send
• 44:24
  them out to the junior. So and they're like and so yes
• 44:27
  we signed I think. Three young ladies and two guys
• 44:30
  and this this year's recruiting class, I'm doing it the year
• 44:33
  before. So I think we've signed five,
• 44:36
  you know so for us that's that's pretty good.
• 44:38
  Absolutely. So a lot of great things to to
• 44:40
  unpack their J. So one, love your, I don't even
• 44:44
  want to call it old school. It's just your hustle.
• 44:48
  I love that of like I'm going to e-mail everybody, I'll write
• 44:51
  everybody, etcetera. I love that we're going to put a
• 44:54
  pin in the less than 10% responses.
• 44:58
  Oh, wait, wait. Less than 10%, right?
• 44:59
  You said three. Oh yeah, no, 330.
• 45:00
  Sorry, I'm from Alabama. No.
• 45:03
  No, I know, I know. I'm just trying to think in my
• 45:04
  head. I'm from Alabama, so math is not
• 45:07
  really strong. So here.
• 45:08
  All right. OK.
• 45:09
  So I love that we're going to put a pin in that response right
• 45:11
  here because because what you're really saying again, the
• 45:13
  numbers, you're right, Jay, don't matter.
• 45:14
  What you're really saying is little to no response is what
• 45:17
  you're saying. So I want to talk about that
• 45:18
  because we've talked about that with high school coaches as
• 45:20
  well. So I just like to kind of put
• 45:22
  everybody on blast about this and we're going to do that again
• 45:24
  today here, Jay. The other thing that I love to
• 45:27
  unpack there and the reason I don't know why I really asked if
• 45:30
  you wrote or typed. I think I was asking out of my
• 45:32
  own curiosity because I have done those as well.
• 45:34
  I've handwritten and I've typed and things like that.
• 45:37
  But what I, you know, people will say, oh, I got a
• 45:42
  handwritten note, wow, that was so special.
• 45:44
  I don't know that I've ever heard many people say, oh wow, I
• 45:47
  got a text and that was special, but I don't.
• 45:51
  But I think they're the same thing.
• 45:53
  Like I I don't fall in love with the medium, meaning I don't fall
• 45:57
  in love with a I don't think a letter holds more weight to me
• 46:01
  than if Jay calls me or emails me or texts me or smoke signals
• 46:05
  me. Like the the sentiment is that
• 46:07
  person reached out. So I don't get.
• 46:10
  I don't fall in love with the, the, the, the medium.
• 46:12
  How it's actually done, whether it's handwritten, typed,
• 46:15
  Braille, I don't care. To me it's like, wow, that
• 46:17
  person took. It all basically takes the same
• 46:20
  amount. Even a handwritten letter versus
• 46:22
  a text takes about the same amount of time.
• 46:23
  Let's be real here, you know, especially if you text like me
• 46:25
  with my thumbs, I got to rewrite it like 100 times.
• 46:28
  So don't fall in love with that. So I don't.
• 46:29
  I'm worried about that. Now let's talk about the real
• 46:31
  thing, cuz this is what is super interesting.
• 46:33
  This is a unique perspective that I, as the host of this
• 46:36
  podcast gets is one day I'll be interviewing the head coach of
• 46:40
  Midway here, Jay Waltz, and then tomorrow I'll be interviewing
• 46:45
  Sean McCafferty, the head track coach of Christian Brothers
• 46:48
  Academy High School. Right.
• 46:50
  And and I don't remember if Sean and I actually talked about this
• 46:53
  specifically, but I know here in a recent episode, we did get
• 46:57
  into it with a high school coach talking about college coaches.
• 47:00
  The college coach general big generalization here will say the
• 47:05
  exact same thing that you just said about college coaches.
• 47:10
  So you said and by the way you are not saying something that
• 47:12
  has not been said many, many times in this podcast of, hey, I
• 47:16
  reach out to all these high school coaches and.
• 47:19
  We're just going to keep using the number 10%, less than 10%
• 47:22
  reply back. I'll have a high school coach
• 47:24
  come on the show and say man, I have reached out to college
• 47:27
  coaches about kids and less than 10% will, will, will actually
• 47:31
  respond. So what I think is really
• 47:34
  happening here, I don't point the finger at either or I put, I
• 47:38
  put all fingers at everybody. We are not responding back.
• 47:43
  High school coaches, I don't think we're doing a good enough
• 47:45
  job of responding back to inquiries from college coaches
• 47:49
  and vice versa. I don't think college coaches
• 47:52
  are responding back appropriately to high school
• 47:54
  coaches and add club and pants, and I think that's the number
• 47:58
  one excuse is do you know how busy I MJ?
• 48:01
  I'm, I'm a high school coach of Louisville Manual.
• 48:04
  I'm teaching. I'm coaching.
• 48:06
  I have a family. You know, I'm also the the, the,
• 48:10
  the yearbook liaison, whatever they call them, right?
• 48:15
  And they say, I'm sorry, Jay, if I don't have anything for you, I
• 48:18
  don't have anything for you. I'm just, I'm just not going to
• 48:19
  respond. The college coach will say,
• 48:22
  dude, I'm coaching college. I'm recruiting all the time.
• 48:24
  Oh, by the way, I have a family. I'm also on, you know, the the,
• 48:29
  the, the fundraising event for my city or whatever, you know,
• 48:31
  those kind of things. And so I think we all need to
• 48:34
  take a step back and have more grace for each other.
• 48:37
  That's where my actual fingers are going, not, hey, you should
• 48:40
  respond to everyone. I think you should, by the way,
• 48:42
  But I think instead the lesson here is to have grace for
• 48:45
  others. So when you e-mail 300 coaches
• 48:48
  and only 20, I I think, man, what are those other 200 people
• 48:51
  like? Come on, it doesn't take two
• 48:53
  seconds. I think this is you're probably
• 48:54
  in the same headspace where you're like, it doesn't take two
• 48:56
  seconds to reply back and say, hey, thanks got no one for you,
• 48:59
  good luck. You know, it's like, okay, Well,
• 49:01
  I got something from the person, right?
• 49:02
  I'd love to get to a point where people are complaining that I
• 49:06
  get 100% response rate but they're just short notes.
• 49:09
  But I'd love to get there. That would be an awesome place
• 49:11
  to get to because I know it feels bad when you just don't
• 49:14
  get any response. The cool thing is, and you
• 49:16
  actually expressed this and I've had this as well, where you
• 49:20
  know, I'll I'll, I love writing letters to first time coaches.
• 49:24
  So they become the first time head coach, the first time they
• 49:27
  get into coaching and just you know just congratulations like
• 49:29
  man, you're joining a. Unbelievable fraternity here as
• 49:32
  a college track coach or a high school track coach, a head
• 49:34
  coach, etcetera. And rarely, you know, I put my
• 49:37
  card in there because they can't read my handwriting.
• 49:39
  So I put my card really more like, hey, this is who this
• 49:41
  really is. You know, every once in a while,
• 49:43
  one out of 1 out of 300, someone will e-mail me and say, hey, I
• 49:47
  got the card or they'll tweet me, hey, I got the card.
• 49:49
  Thank you That that meant a lot. And that's awesome.
• 49:51
  Boy, I feel so good because it's like I was able to bless this
• 49:53
  person, right? But more often. 23456 years down
• 49:59
  the line, I'll meet that person somewhere at a meet or a
• 50:02
  convention or on the podcast and they'll say, yeah, I remember
• 50:06
  you, you actually sent me a letter five years ago the first
• 50:09
  time I got my college coaching job.
• 50:12
  And you know, and and I'm like like they remember that.
• 50:15
  Like that's a like that's something that actually touched
• 50:18
  them enough that they remembered a years later.
• 50:20
  So. So I I want to just encourage
• 50:23
  you, Jay. Keep doing what you're doing.
• 50:27
  Don't. This is one of the weird things,
• 50:28
  and this is maybe this. Maybe I'm uncovering something
• 50:31
  here, Jay, because what I'm about to tell you is don't let
• 50:35
  the results or the lack of results stop you from doing what
• 50:38
  you're doing. And here's where maybe I just
• 50:40
  unpacked. I've never said this before.
• 50:42
  It's just kind of hit me. Maybe it's because you're a
• 50:44
  track coach. That's why it's.
• 50:47
  Harder for you because it's like because your results oriented,
• 50:49
  right. We're track coaches.
• 50:50
  We, you know, how do I go from 4:30 in the mile to 4:20 and
• 50:53
  4:15 and 4:10, right. That's we're very results
• 50:57
  oriented people as track and field coaches.
• 50:59
  So maybe this becomes an area where you're like, oh man, 300.
• 51:02
  I only got 20. Well gosh, how do I get 30 and
• 51:05
  50 and 100 and and maybe it's like you know what, this is one
• 51:08
  of those things where you're doing a great service you're
• 51:10
  you're reaching out to coaches to try to help other kids.
• 51:14
  Go to college and maybe earn scholarship and and things like
• 51:16
  that. At least be on a team.
• 51:18
  You're just doing good for doing that.
• 51:20
  Even if the coach doesn't physically respond back to you,
• 51:24
  you have no idea. That coach might have sent it
• 51:25
  off to every one of their kids and that's how a kid actually
• 51:28
  contacted you and you don't the coach.
• 51:29
  Don't get the credit because the kids know.
• 51:31
  What? I'm.
• 51:31
  Saying yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know that was a long
• 51:34
  winded thing there, so sorry but I think there's a lot of value
• 51:37
  there and I I always want to make sure every high school
• 51:40
  coach that comes in here and says yeah college coaches don't
• 51:42
  respond. I have this exact same
• 51:43
  conversation and and back and forth cuz I think there just
• 51:46
  needs to be a more grace for each other and I think maybe we
• 51:50
  unpack something there of maybe you're letting your own.
• 51:55
  Idiosyncrasy of being a coach, results oriented, affecting
• 51:58
  something that I don't think is results oriented, especially
• 52:00
  when you're doing numbers like 300.
• 52:02
  That's that's a lot, right? I mean, you know, that's that's
• 52:04
  really cool, Jay. We're like the.
• 52:07
  Numbers were just throwing out there.
• 52:08
  Yeah. No, no, no, no.
• 52:09
  Again, we're not talking about the specific numbers.
• 52:11
  It was the sentiment that, you know, 300 and you got 30 back.
• 52:15
  Even if you've gotten 50 back, it's like, oh gosh, that's still
• 52:17
  only, you know, 15% or whatever. Yeah, that's still not
• 52:20
  acceptable in my mind if. If I call, if I call 100 of my
• 52:23
  family members and only 15 respond, I still feel sad like,
• 52:27
  man, only 15 of my people reached back out, you know what
• 52:30
  I'm saying? So yeah, so we should have hire,
• 52:32
  but again, have more grace. And I'm not talking to you, Jay.
• 52:35
  I'm talking to our embodiment here of our profession.
• 52:38
  Oh no, I agree. I know everybody gets busy.
• 52:40
  And you know, I mean, sometimes myself I'll get an e-mail and if
• 52:44
  I don't flag it. You know, to like to respond
• 52:47
  back to it, you know. So it it's on me also it's yeah,
• 52:50
  trust me, I'm definitely not perfect.
• 52:53
  So I've done the same thing. Or maybe I'm at practice and
• 52:56
  like you know, somebody sends an e-mail and you click it real
• 52:58
  quick, you know, and then you look at it and then like once
• 53:00
  again, if I don't flag it then I'm probably know it's on to the
• 53:03
  next. That's just, you know, we get,
• 53:05
  we get 30-40 fifty emails a day sometimes so.
• 53:08
  And here's where I'm gonna. Encourage you.
• 53:12
  And there really this is encouragement for every coach
• 53:14
  and and especially maybe coaches who are on Twitter and other
• 53:17
  social medias. Cuz I know we get a lot of
• 53:19
  random Dms whether it's you know, it's a kid who says, hey
• 53:24
  Coach Walls, love your university.
• 53:26
  I would love to go to school in New York.
• 53:28
  What's your scholarship rate? And you're like, bro, I'm I'm in
• 53:31
  Kentucky. Like what?
• 53:32
  What are you doing? I'm I haven't coached in 17
• 53:35
  years. You know 2005 was my last
• 53:37
  season. So you know kids that are going
• 53:39
  for scholarships now weren't even born last time I coached.
• 53:43
  Right. And I still get D M's.
• 53:46
  Hey coach would love your university would love to talk
• 53:49
  more about a scholarship and I'm like what university because I'm
• 53:52
  not attached to any you're like you talk about but I still
• 53:56
  respond. I everyone of my say, hey I love
• 53:58
  your hustle like I love that you're doing this This is to me
• 54:00
  the same as. You know your story of emailing
• 54:03
  300 people. We've had coaches on here who
• 54:04
  have, you know, wrote 400 letters for a job back in the
• 54:07
  day, things like that. I love that.
• 54:09
  So to me, this is the exact same thing.
• 54:10
  They're on DM. They could be playing a video
• 54:12
  game out, playing ball, whatever.
• 54:14
  But instead they're on. They're on.
• 54:16
  The thing that we all have and is our, you know, lifeblood, our
• 54:18
  cell phones. And they're D Ming.
• 54:20
  Hey, you know, love to learn more.
• 54:22
  I want to learn more. They're hustling.
• 54:23
  I love that. So I always tell them, love your
• 54:24
  hustle. Just do like 1/2 a second more
• 54:26
  research. Like like just look at look at
• 54:28
  my bio. My bio literally says that I
• 54:31
  work for Guild athletics. So you you know, and I guess
• 54:33
  maybe you think that's a school. You know, like Midway athletic.
• 54:36
  Yeah, like Midway athletics. But, you know, just do a little
• 54:39
  research and, you know, I'd be feel much better.
• 54:42
  So Jay, we left all of that off at you.
• 54:47
  Or three months as the unofficial interim head coach of
• 54:50
  Austin Pea recruiting. Did you did you get the head?
• 54:54
  Did you apply for the head job? Did you get the head job, or who
• 54:57
  else came in? What happened after that three
• 54:58
  months of immersive recruiting? No, I did not apply for it
• 55:04
  because I like I said I was just, I was like whoa, I was
• 55:06
  like, I don't that that's too much.
• 55:08
  So they were in the search process and they ended up hiring
• 55:11
  Doug Monar, you know, Doug. I know that name.
• 55:15
  He was there. No, I know Jeff.
• 55:17
  I'm. I'm getting a different name
• 55:18
  mixed up. I I know the name.
• 55:20
  Tell me more. Oh, Doug, Doug.
• 55:22
  He worked at let's see UT Knoxville.
• 55:24
  He was there. I believe he was at in state and
• 55:29
  before he came to Austin P he was at I don't even, I think
• 55:33
  it's renamed now. I think it's UT Rio Grande
• 55:35
  Valley. But it was a UT Pan American.
• 55:37
  I believe this is where he came to Austin P from.
• 55:41
  So he was another distance coach and so he came in and and he
• 55:45
  kept me on for that first semester.
• 55:47
  And then I believe, I believe I got my own head.
• 55:51
  And so I was like, Oh my gosh, he's a distance coach.
• 55:53
  He's not going to need me, you know, even though he kept me on
• 55:55
  that first semester. And so then I, you know, after
• 55:59
  that semester was over with, you know, I just, I don't know, I
• 56:02
  just kind of lost contact and I wasn't going in the office
• 56:05
  anymore. And I was just like my days are
• 56:07
  number and I think I just, you know, manifested this in my own
• 56:10
  head and I was like he's going to need a Sprint coach, you
• 56:14
  know, he doesn't need me and. And so then I ended up just, I
• 56:17
  didn't go back and I end up just moving back home to Louisville
• 56:22
  and started coaching at the high school level.
• 56:24
  Tell me more. You know, Jay, one of the
• 56:26
  things, there's two main reasons why we started this podcast.
• 56:29
  One was to uplift and honor your journey, which I love it.
• 56:32
  And hopefully listeners and you, Jay, are are seeing that that's
• 56:36
  one of the goals that we're accomplishing here.
• 56:38
  The other goal was to bring value to other coaches.
• 56:41
  You know, we have a I mean it's. Still so humbling a very, very,
• 56:45
  very large listenership. So I'm always cognizant of, you
• 56:48
  know, the vast majority are our coaches, a small minority or
• 56:52
  athletes and then we have some, you know, just fans of track.
• 56:56
  So I'm always keen on how can we bring more value to our
• 57:00
  listeners. Our our coaches are listening I
• 57:02
  think and I appreciate you being open and vulnerable by saying
• 57:05
  that. I wonder, I think that might be
• 57:08
  something that we go through. Often that we don't talk about
• 57:12
  very much. You talked about and you it may
• 57:16
  be circling all around lack of communication because you know
• 57:18
  if you maybe had more talks with him and maybe you did, I don't
• 57:20
  know, let's learn a little bit more here.
• 57:22
  But can you walk us through a little bit more about that time
• 57:24
  frame for you and that mindset that you were in and how how
• 57:27
  that the good thing is it all ended up with a good new you
• 57:31
  know you're here today, you know it's all very, very good.
• 57:34
  But that doesn't seem like that would have been a very joyous
• 57:37
  time for you. No.
• 57:39
  And it, like I said, it was all my fault.
• 57:41
  No, because I actually, in that first semester, you know, it was
• 57:44
  amazing. I loved working with Doug.
• 57:45
  He's a great coach, you know, and like I said, we brought that
• 57:49
  recruiting class in and and you know, training change.
• 57:52
  So I got to see a whole another type of training as well too,
• 57:55
  which was good for me and my growth as a coach.
• 57:59
  And so it it was a great, great semester and I loved it and I
• 58:02
  also, I was kind of also just battling my own demons as well
• 58:06
  too, you know. So that's what I'm saying.
• 58:08
  It was all one me. I mean, who knows what could
• 58:10
  happen if, like you said, if I would have communicated more and
• 58:12
  just been straight up and been like, you know, are you bringing
• 58:15
  me back in the spring for track? You know, And because he would
• 58:19
  have talked to me, you know, so that's what I'm saying.
• 58:20
  It was all my own fault, all my own fault.
• 58:23
  What do you think kept you from having that conversation?
• 58:26
  Like, I I would have thought you would have told me, you know,
• 58:28
  the time that you were together, the two to two and a half, three
• 58:30
  months of cross country season, Like Oh yeah, we didn't get
• 58:32
  along. I didn't like his training.
• 58:34
  It sounds like it was going really, really well.
• 58:36
  What do you think? You know, because what you have.
• 58:39
  Today that you didn't have then is perspective.
• 58:41
  You know we put 2020 hindsight, right.
• 58:43
  So you now you can look back and like okay, I'm X years old
• 58:46
  today. I was I mean this is your first
• 58:47
  year so you're 22 ish, 3 ish at this point that's still an
• 58:51
  extremely young person. So yeah.
• 58:55
  Back then you have you have the ability to like kind of maybe
• 58:59
  have a better understanding of what you're going through.
• 59:00
  What do you think kept you from going into Doug's office one day
• 59:04
  and you're like, hey man, I'm sorry.
• 59:05
  I'm just I'm really concerned you're you're just going to get
• 59:08
  rid of me because. You're a distance code, you
• 59:09
  don't need me. But you didn't have that
• 59:12
  conversation. What do you think kept you from
• 59:13
  doing that? You know, like I said, I think a
• 59:16
  lot of that was me because I was battling some other things in my
• 59:19
  life as well too. So I think for me it was almost
• 59:24
  like I I needed a geographical cure or so to say, you know, so
• 59:29
  to for me just to kind of I needed to get get back home and
• 59:33
  I guess if I can put it you know, like that.
• 59:38
  You know, and then also that's all I've known.
• 59:39
  I was like awesome pee. We've always had a Sprint coach
• 59:41
  and a distance coach and but like I said, I think a lot of it
• 59:44
  was more so the stuff that I was battling my own and my own
• 59:47
  personal life and stuff like that, you know.
• 59:49
  And so I was just kind of like the easiest thing for me to be.
• 59:51
  But you know, like you said, now that I'm ordering perspective
• 59:53
  would be just a runaway. I'm.
• 59:56
  Being completely honest and me to run away and just avoid you
• 1:00:00
  know that conversation. You know and and so I guess it
• 1:00:04
  was also just. If that was what was gonna
• 1:00:06
  happen, I was like, I don't wanna hear that, you know, Like,
• 1:00:09
  I don't wanna. So it's kind of running away
• 1:00:11
  more so I would say, than anything.
• 1:00:14
  Yeah, it's that avoidance, right?
• 1:00:15
  No one likes to be told no or negative things or hurtful
• 1:00:20
  things. And by the way, a lot of us
• 1:00:22
  don't like to give that information either, right?
• 1:00:24
  So we avoid. The conversation or we avoid the
• 1:00:27
  conflict. I think that's very normal.
• 1:00:30
  I'm not, I'm not sure in the big scheme of things that it's
• 1:00:34
  healthy, but it's certainly is normal.
• 1:00:38
  You know, as you're describing that I'm in my head, I'm like,
• 1:00:41
  oh, yeah, I remember I did that once.
• 1:00:42
  Oh, yeah, no, actually more than once.
• 1:00:44
  Did that here too. Yeah.
• 1:00:44
  Yeah, yeah, so, so. So I get that.
• 1:00:47
  And I think it's again, extremely even harder when we
• 1:00:50
  talk about that, you know, first year, 2-3 years of coaching
• 1:00:53
  versus, you know, having much more experience.
• 1:00:55
  Now it's I think it's harder because we haven't had those
• 1:00:57
  experiences, you know, now you would maybe you know, if that
• 1:01:01
  kind of saying, you'd be like, okay, I've been through this.
• 1:01:04
  It did not work out when I avoided it.
• 1:01:05
  Let me go, quote, UN quote, rip off the bandaid and either let
• 1:01:08
  this coach tell me that he's letting me go or who knows,
• 1:01:12
  maybe it'll be good news and I'm being stayed on, you know?
• 1:01:14
  Exactly. You know.
• 1:01:15
  Exactly. It could have been like that and
• 1:01:18
  and it's so funny because that and you know and I always look
• 1:01:22
  at everything that everything happens for a reason you know
• 1:01:24
  and like. And I've went through everything
• 1:01:26
  so I can pass my experiences on to my student athletes.
• 1:01:30
  No thing that I say to them all the time is that I made the
• 1:01:32
  mistakes. So you don't have to, you know,
• 1:01:35
  like, or you know, or learn from the mistakes that I made.
• 1:01:37
  If you listen to me, you know I can help you.
• 1:01:41
  But yeah, so I'll always try to tell my student athletes, you
• 1:01:43
  know, I made the mistakes so you didn't have to because I'm the
• 1:01:45
  first person to tell you I'm definitely not perfect.
• 1:01:48
  You know, and I never claimed to be perfect.
• 1:01:50
  And kind of going back to what you said earlier about you were
• 1:01:53
  like, yeah, you know, I don't, you don't see the type that
• 1:01:54
  think that's that, you know it all.
• 1:01:56
  And I've been telling my student athletes, I said the day that I
• 1:01:59
  think I know it all, it's time for me to retire because you can
• 1:02:01
  always learn, you can always grow because it's not just the
• 1:02:04
  science, it's the kids, man. The kids are changing.
• 1:02:07
  Like, you know, just, I mean everything's changing.
• 1:02:09
  So, you know, you always got to continue to learn and and grow
• 1:02:12
  in your craft, that's for sure. And and if I ever thought that I
• 1:02:14
  knew it all, I'd just walk away. I would walk away.
• 1:02:18
  I love that statement. I made the mistakes so you don't
• 1:02:20
  have to. Right.
• 1:02:20
  So I I made the I walk so you don't have to crawl.
• 1:02:24
  You know that kind of. And I can't remember who it was.
• 1:02:26
  But it hit me like I I I wish it would hit me a little bit harder
• 1:02:30
  and I can remember what which coach it was on the podcast
• 1:02:32
  here. But they talked about how we you
• 1:02:35
  know as coaches. I think a lot of coaches would
• 1:02:36
  have that same. Let me take a step back there.
• 1:02:39
  I think a lot of adults because I've said this with my kids like
• 1:02:41
  hey I've made these mistakes. You just follow the game plan
• 1:02:44
  that I'm trying to give you here.
• 1:02:45
  Life will be much easier for you than it was for me.
• 1:02:47
  Right. And.
• 1:02:48
  This in this coach. And gosh, I wish I could
• 1:02:50
  remember exactly who it was. Their response was, yeah, but
• 1:02:54
  you are who you are because of the mistakes you made.
• 1:02:56
  So maybe these young people, they need to make their own
• 1:02:58
  mistakes to become the people they're supposed to become.
• 1:02:59
  And I was like smack because we say it in love and good
• 1:03:03
  intentions, right. You're like, man, I don't want
• 1:03:05
  you to be hurt. I don't want you to go through
• 1:03:07
  pain. I don't want you to go through
• 1:03:08
  heartache. So if you'll just listen to me
• 1:03:12
  and and there's a lot of goodness to that like you just
• 1:03:13
  listen to me, you won't have those things.
• 1:03:16
  In the In the back of your head, you know that's not true because
• 1:03:18
  life has its ups and downs. So maybe you're really saying
• 1:03:21
  like, hey, if you'll just listen to me, you'll have less.
• 1:03:24
  Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:03:26
  You know, because. And that's something else.
• 1:03:28
  I always tell them, I say it's not a mistake unless you learn
• 1:03:30
  from it, you know, because I mean, everybody makes mistakes.
• 1:03:32
  Like I tell them myself, I'm not perfect.
• 1:03:33
  I still make mistakes this day and and every day I make
• 1:03:36
  mistakes. And so I tell them, you know,
• 1:03:38
  it's not a mistake unless we learn from it.
• 1:03:40
  And that's also what I. Talk about with them also is
• 1:03:44
  that that's just life, man. Like you said, you're gonna have
• 1:03:47
  ups, you're gonna have downs, and it's when you get knocked
• 1:03:49
  down, it's like, how are you gonna pick yourself back up?
• 1:03:51
  That's what's important. If somebody starts through life
• 1:03:55
  and doesn't have any of that, then I.
• 1:03:58
  No one, no one, no one. Life is messy.
• 1:04:01
  Absolutely. The other aspect I like of that
• 1:04:05
  story here is you. We're about to move on and jump
• 1:04:07
  to Louisville is, you know, we look back at these forks in the
• 1:04:12
  road of these decisions we make and then don't make right.
• 1:04:15
  And a lot of times it's easy for us to look back now that we have
• 1:04:18
  this perspective and think about all the positives that could
• 1:04:21
  have been, if you think about like the the Multiverse with
• 1:04:23
  like Marvel, right, we think about, oh man.
• 1:04:26
  If I would have in this example here, Jay, if I would have
• 1:04:28
  talked to Doug, maybe he kept me on and maybe, you know, gosh,
• 1:04:31
  maybe that would have led to a head coaching job here.
• 1:04:33
  And then maybe I'd be here, maybe I'd be here and you know,
• 1:04:35
  I'd be making $1,000,000 and yada yada.
• 1:04:37
  It's nice to think that way. And that's possible.
• 1:04:40
  That is maybe 1 multiverse string that could have gone that
• 1:04:43
  way. Unfortunately, the opposite
• 1:04:45
  could have happened as well. Like, oh man, if I would have
• 1:04:48
  talked to Doug, oh, yeah, he would have fired me on the spot.
• 1:04:50
  And you know what? Maybe that would have
• 1:04:52
  blackballed me from another coaching job.
• 1:04:54
  And now I would have been, you know, back to being a teacher
• 1:04:57
  without coaching and that I wouldn't be happy.
• 1:05:00
  And, you know, a lot of other bad spiraling things.
• 1:05:02
  So it's we can't always think of the good things we missed out.
• 1:05:06
  Sometimes we have to think. And no, not just think.
• 1:05:08
  We have to know. Oh, man, I dodged the bullet.
• 1:05:11
  Like, holy cow, Thank goodness I didn't do this, this.
• 1:05:14
  Decision instead of this one, because I could have been a way
• 1:05:16
  worse situation than I am now, especially if you're in a good
• 1:05:20
  situation today. It's like, oh, all that led to
• 1:05:22
  where I am today and I'm very happy with where we're at today,
• 1:05:26
  you know, so. And it was part of my journey
• 1:05:28
  and it was part of my growth that helped me grow.
• 1:05:30
  You know, I'll learn from it, you know.
• 1:05:32
  So that's that's the important thing.
• 1:05:33
  If you would have talked to Doug, maybe you'd never be on
• 1:05:35
  the podcast. Exactly.
• 1:05:38
  You never can't tell. I had to get my own affair
• 1:05:42
  straight before I could do anything.
• 1:05:44
  So exactly. All right.
• 1:05:45
  So you what did you, I love how you put it earlier.
• 1:05:48
  What did you say you needed? A location?
• 1:05:50
  You didn't say a location change.
• 1:05:51
  I can't remember. What was a graphical?
• 1:05:53
  Cure a geographical cure that I love that was like, I've never
• 1:05:57
  heard that before. I love that.
• 1:05:58
  As soon as you said it, though, I literally in my head was like,
• 1:06:00
  Oh yeah, I've had this experience.
• 1:06:02
  I know exactly what you're talking about here.
• 1:06:04
  So you cure yourself. I love this to Louisville.
• 1:06:07
  You go back home. So what did we do there when we
• 1:06:09
  went back to Louisville? I moved back to Louisville and I
• 1:06:12
  actually started working at a specialty running shoe store
• 1:06:15
  called Swag Sport Shoes. The owner is Swag Cartel, Irwin
• 1:06:20
  Swag Cartel. He ran at the Western Kentucky
• 1:06:24
  in the early 70s, back when Nick Rose was there.
• 1:06:27
  He's from England with Nick Rose too.
• 1:06:29
  He ended up being a professional runner.
• 1:06:31
  He was a great 800 meter guy. I think Swag got down to maybe
• 1:06:34
  140 Sevenish and he ran in the British Olympic trials.
• 1:06:38
  And then open it up to his own running shoe store in
• 1:06:40
  Louisville. So I started, you know, working
• 1:06:42
  there and then started coaching at the high school level.
• 1:06:47
  Started coaching at Seneca High School in Louisville.
• 1:06:49
  And I was there for for about two years and and worked with
• 1:06:53
  swag and I was, I was still battling my own demons.
• 1:06:58
  I was, I was just, I mean I just I've never really even talked
• 1:07:00
  about it before. But you know, I was battling
• 1:07:02
  alcohol is what it was, as you know.
• 1:07:04
  So that's the geographical cure. I was like okay, maybe I can get
• 1:07:07
  away from it. So yes, I was haven't had a, you
• 1:07:11
  know, an addiction to alcohol. And so still went through that
• 1:07:15
  for years and years and then moved again and moved to Eastern
• 1:07:18
  Kentucky with my mother because my grandmother was sick.
• 1:07:23
  She had breast cancer. And so, but once again, it was
• 1:07:25
  just something in my head to get away because I'm like, oh, you
• 1:07:28
  know, I'm falling back in that same trap.
• 1:07:29
  And I'm like, well, I need another geographical cure.
• 1:07:32
  It's time to move. Maybe if I move somewhere else,
• 1:07:33
  it'll get better, but no, it doesn't.
• 1:07:35
  It follows you. And so then lived there for a
• 1:07:38
  while, just me not doing. I'd saved up money and just
• 1:07:42
  stayed there and was helping take care of my grandmother.
• 1:07:43
  And then she passed away and working just like Walmart, you
• 1:07:48
  know, I'm just working at Walmart.
• 1:07:49
  And then also had worked at a hospital I worked at Big Lots
• 1:07:53
  furniture. But once again.
• 1:07:54
  Where is when you're doing all this and you're obviously going
• 1:07:57
  through during this time things way more important than coaching
• 1:08:01
  track and field. But I am curious where is
• 1:08:04
  coaching track and field in your?
• 1:08:07
  I'm going to say your heart like as you're going through this
• 1:08:09
  journey and again thank you so much for your openness and
• 1:08:13
  authenticity. I mean this when when our guests
• 1:08:16
  are open, like you are here today, Jay, your your, you know,
• 1:08:20
  your impact on the kids you coach is immense.
• 1:08:22
  I mean it's it's tremendous they're going on to become
• 1:08:24
  mothers, fathers, doctors, teachers, business owners.
• 1:08:27
  It's unbelievable the impact that you J.
• 1:08:29
  Walls have on young people. When you're open and authentic
• 1:08:33
  like this, you're also now helping.
• 1:08:35
  I guarantee you there's someone fighting a lot of the similar
• 1:08:38
  demons that you fought then. And possibly my understanding is
• 1:08:41
  that this isn't something that just goes away.
• 1:08:43
  So you're still always on the fight, right?
• 1:08:45
  There's someone listening right now that is finding some
• 1:08:50
  platitude with you. It's like, oh, wait a minute,
• 1:08:53
  like he he came back from this like he's now the head coach.
• 1:08:55
  Like, oh, maybe I can, maybe I can beat this, maybe I can fight
• 1:08:58
  harder against this. So I I just want to just point
• 1:09:01
  blank, stop and just say thank you.
• 1:09:03
  For for for being so open here with us today as you're fighting
• 1:09:08
  this and you know unbelievable tragedies and your grandmother
• 1:09:11
  passes away, you're in a different part of the you're not
• 1:09:14
  back home in Louisville, etcetera.
• 1:09:17
  It is coaching. Even like if you were to list
• 1:09:20
  like the top 10 things you were thinking about and concerned
• 1:09:22
  about and dreams and things like that is, is track coaching even
• 1:09:26
  a top ten or is it out of your mind space at this point.
• 1:09:31
  To be honest, in that area where I was at in the.
• 1:09:33
  In the area where I was at personally, it was not even, it
• 1:09:36
  wasn't even, It was an afterthought, unfortunately.
• 1:09:40
  So I just, I mean it was really just about survival at the time.
• 1:09:48
  Like I said, Grandma passed away.
• 1:09:50
  I ended up getting engaged to a young lady that had cystic
• 1:09:53
  fibrosis that was up there and then she ended up passing away.
• 1:09:58
  Yeah. And just to let you know, this
• 1:10:00
  is the first time I've ever like came out publicly and spoke
• 1:10:02
  about that. Thank you.
• 1:10:08
  Or you know, needs to hear that. So that's why I was like, well,
• 1:10:10
  let's talk about. It thank you.
• 1:10:12
  Out there. I'm not trying to sabotage the.
• 1:10:14
  No, no. Podcast with that so.
• 1:10:16
  What did I tell you before we hit record authenticity?
• 1:10:20
  Overperfection and my friend you are defining the definition of
• 1:10:24
  authenticity and that is so important.
• 1:10:26
  I hope, hope it is being a little bit helpful for you.
• 1:10:28
  But you are 1000% helping lots and lots of people who are
• 1:10:32
  listening right now. Absolutely Jay.
• 1:10:34
  So thank thank you for being again, just thank you.
• 1:10:36
  I I'm so humbled that you would trust me and trust us and our
• 1:10:39
  platform here to express this. Oh, yes, Sir, of course.
• 1:10:45
  So yeah, unfortunately it wasn't it.
• 1:10:46
  Like I said, it was about survival.
• 1:10:47
  And then. Fiance passed away.
• 1:10:51
  And so, you know, so I would go through dry spells and you know,
• 1:10:54
  being soaked a little bit and you know, and then after I was
• 1:10:57
  actually even put into a mental hospital because when I was
• 1:11:01
  trying to get drinking, I was, you know, going through DT's and
• 1:11:08
  I was seeing things and hear things.
• 1:11:09
  So I got, you know, I had to get put into a mental hospital and.
• 1:11:13
  But then, so then all that's gone.
• 1:11:15
  So then once again, I'm moving back.
• 1:11:17
  I'm going back to Louisville again.
• 1:11:18
  So I go back to to Louisville and I start working at Swags
• 1:11:23
  again. I start coaching at my old alma
• 1:11:26
  mater, Butler High School. I'm working, working there and
• 1:11:29
  coach with my best friend, Brandon Lesher.
• 1:11:33
  Me and him both ran together in high school and graduated
• 1:11:35
  together and and both ran in college and he's he's still one
• 1:11:39
  of my best friends of this day. So we're working together.
• 1:11:42
  He brought me on and he's like, hey, come on man be my
• 1:11:44
  assistant. So and pretty much he was
• 1:11:46
  coaching the guys and he let me kind of coach the the ladies.
• 1:11:50
  So I did that for two years and then he stepped away and and so
• 1:11:53
  then it was just kind of me again.
• 1:11:55
  But then those demons reared back up.
• 1:11:58
  They reared back up and so I ended up stepping away, stepping
• 1:12:04
  away from the team so I could you know try to better myself
• 1:12:06
  and and work on myself again. And just kind of took a couple
• 1:12:11
  years off and while I was going through recovery on myself out
• 1:12:15
  and a life out. You know I lived in the recovery
• 1:12:18
  house for a year got a sponsor worked at 12 steps you know a A
• 1:12:24
  meetings you know 5-5 days a week just getting my life back
• 1:12:28
  on track and was just working and.
• 1:12:32
  Then moved out of the recovery house, got my own apartment, you
• 1:12:35
  know, again. So that was like big.
• 1:12:37
  You know, this is a year and sobriety for me.
• 1:12:40
  And got my own apartment. So that was just kind of scary.
• 1:12:42
  And it's own. I'm like I'm going to be by
• 1:12:43
  myself. I could, you know very easily
• 1:12:44
  just slip back down that Ave. but didn't stay there.
• 1:12:50
  And so then still working at swags And so while I was taking
• 1:12:54
  that time off, I was just reflecting also.
• 1:12:56
  I'm like, all right, what do I want to do with my life?
• 1:12:58
  And so I thought, well let's try to get this college coaching a
• 1:13:01
  try again. Was that because did you like,
• 1:13:05
  when you were thinking about, like, what are some things I can
• 1:13:07
  do? Was it like, where was I the
• 1:13:08
  happiest? Was that part of, like, you
• 1:13:11
  know, when I was coaching track? Like, man, I was really like, I
• 1:13:14
  was kind of in step with things. I was being good in your life.
• 1:13:17
  I was selfsatisfied. Was that part of that thought
• 1:13:21
  process for you? Most definitely, most
• 1:13:23
  definitely. And in a A they say in order to
• 1:13:26
  keep it you got to give it away, you know, So for me, obviously,
• 1:13:29
  I end up being a sponsor also so.
• 1:13:33
  I ended up being a sponsor, had a bunch of sponsees, but then I
• 1:13:36
  was also like coaching. That's what you do on a daily
• 1:13:38
  basis. You know, I was like, so I
• 1:13:41
  really want to try to get back into it.
• 1:13:42
  I was like, I want to try to get back into college coaching and
• 1:13:44
  like you said, that's that I was happy.
• 1:13:46
  I was happy when I was coaching when I was in the right state of
• 1:13:49
  mind and and you know, and taking care of myself, which
• 1:13:51
  wasn't, it wasn't a lot when I was coaching.
• 1:13:54
  But I remember that that love and that passion that I had as
• 1:13:57
  a, you know a sophomore and junior in high school and I'm
• 1:13:59
  reading through all this stuff and.
• 1:14:01
  And just you know truly learned in the science.
• 1:14:03
  And so I was like all right well that's what I wanted to do.
• 1:14:06
  I was like, you know I made my list like I said big list guy.
• 1:14:08
  I was like you know what do I need to do.
• 1:14:09
  I was like most colleges ask for you.
• 1:14:12
  They want you to have a master's degree.
• 1:14:13
  So I'm like, all right. So I'm going to start working on
• 1:14:15
  my master's. So I went through Concord
• 1:14:16
  University Irvine and did their coaching and athletic
• 1:14:20
  administration masters which is a great program I'll but highly
• 1:14:23
  if somebody's looking to to get a master's it's all one live.
• 1:14:26
  But it is a great it's a Christian based and it really
• 1:14:29
  taught me a lot also about. Just the leadership, you know,
• 1:14:32
  leadership of of being a coach and and leading young men and
• 1:14:35
  women. So did that.
• 1:14:38
  And then I was like, all right, well, it's, you know, my
• 1:14:40
  volunteer assistant coaches. I was like, so I'll try to, you
• 1:14:42
  know, put out some feelers for that and reached out to a couple
• 1:14:45
  coaches and they were like, no, no, no.
• 1:14:47
  And I'm sitting here right in Louisville, you know, right in
• 1:14:49
  University of Louisville's backyard because I'm like all
• 1:14:51
  they would. They would never, you know, take
• 1:14:53
  a shot on somebody like me but, you know, hasn't coached in, you
• 1:14:56
  know, a couple years and. And so I sent Joe Walker.
• 1:15:00
  An e-mail. Young Joe, young Joe, Joe
• 1:15:05
  Walker, an e-mail. So I sent him an e-mail and was
• 1:15:07
  like, hey, they said this is who I am.
• 1:15:09
  You know, I'm trying to get back into college coaching and was
• 1:15:11
  not even expecting Joe and even respond.
• 1:15:14
  It's kind of like we were talking about earlier, you know,
• 1:15:16
  send it out. But what's the worst?
• 1:15:17
  It's going to happen. They're not going to, you know,
• 1:15:19
  respond. Wasn't probably 1520 minutes.
• 1:15:22
  He had already replied and was like, oh hey, yeah, he's like,
• 1:15:24
  let's meet up for coffee. So we met up for coffee at
• 1:15:27
  Sister Bean's little coffee shop in Louisville right across from
• 1:15:30
  Airquit Park area where I grew up and just sit down and just
• 1:15:34
  you know talk you know a little bit.
• 1:15:36
  Just it was more so getting to know each other type thing not
• 1:15:39
  training philosophies and all that you know and and he was
• 1:15:42
  like all right. He's like, yeah, come on.
• 1:15:43
  So just end up spending the so came on as a volunteer assistant
• 1:15:47
  so him Dale Cowper welcomed to me and they were like hey, yeah,
• 1:15:51
  come on. So and then of course.
• 1:15:54
  Daddy Joe, Daddy Joe was there. Broke football coaches there.
• 1:15:57
  Justin Johnson was there. That was a great staff, a.
• 1:16:00
  Great staff, I agree. I know every single one of them
• 1:16:04
  very well. You probably had all of them on
• 1:16:06
  the podcast. I would say not yet.
• 1:16:09
  You know, it's this kind of like Pokémon.
• 1:16:10
  I'm trying to catch them all. We'll get everybody.
• 1:16:12
  But you know Dale, I've known since he was an undergrad, he
• 1:16:15
  was at Western Michigan when I coached at Ball State.
• 1:16:19
  The Walker family I've known for a long time with Walker Junior
• 1:16:23
  was the head coach. Coach at Ole Miss when I was at
• 1:16:25
  Mississippi State. Brooke has been on the podcast.
• 1:16:27
  Justin, now back at Cal State Northridge, is doing a standout
• 1:16:31
  job. I mean, just you're right.
• 1:16:34
  It just kind of hit me when you were talking about the staff,
• 1:16:36
  like, man, that was like top to bottom.
• 1:16:38
  That was just fantastic people, yeah.
• 1:16:41
  It was. And you know that they were just
• 1:16:43
  great people. Also, no, don't let me forget
• 1:16:45
  Terran Gibson also turned she hands.
• 1:16:47
  She was the female coach there. I'm sorry.
• 1:16:49
  Sorry. Terran didn't mean to forget
• 1:16:50
  you. She was there.
• 1:16:52
  So I just helped Walker with the the men's distance during crawls
• 1:16:56
  and you know, I really didn't do a lot, but I learned a lot,
• 1:16:59
  that's for sure. And and you know, made some
• 1:17:01
  relationships and still keep in touch with a lot of those guys
• 1:17:04
  to this day and you know, while I was there.
• 1:17:08
  We ended up winning the in Civil, a southeast region you
• 1:17:10
  know and qualify for nationals and the guys finished you know
• 1:17:13
  7th and nationals. So just an amazing experience,
• 1:17:16
  you know, just amazing experience and definitely
• 1:17:18
  grateful to Coach Walker and Coach Calper.
• 1:17:23
  For allowing me to do that but. You know, and this makes me
• 1:17:26
  think about something, Jay, that we talked about earlier.
• 1:17:28
  And I said we talked about maybe as we get older and get a little
• 1:17:32
  bit more conservative that maybe we need to have like a whether
• 1:17:36
  it's a kick in the pants or just some self-awareness, Maybe I
• 1:17:38
  just need to ratchet up just a percent or two.
• 1:17:41
  I love this. You know, you initially told the
• 1:17:44
  story like I reached out to you know, several colleges about,
• 1:17:46
  you know, coming on and volunteering.
• 1:17:48
  But I, you know, I'm not going to message Louisville.
• 1:17:51
  They're not going to accept me. But you did it.
• 1:17:53
  There was a kick in the pants. There was a some self-awareness
• 1:17:56
  of like Okay. Well, what's it going to?
• 1:17:59
  Joe won't respond, but Okay at least say I did it and look what
• 1:18:03
  happened. Exactly.
• 1:18:05
  Joe people. I love Joe.
• 1:18:07
  Joe was, I just had a great conversation with him down at
• 1:18:10
  Nationals. He's one of my favorite people
• 1:18:12
  in the whole world and and he's coached some of my favorite
• 1:18:15
  people in the whole world. He's a phenomenal, phenomenal
• 1:18:17
  person and coach. But I love that you, you took
• 1:18:22
  the the 1% extra chance. You know and it's like, well,
• 1:18:25
  you know what? Why not?
• 1:18:26
  I don't know. Let's see what happens and look
• 1:18:28
  what happened, man, that is so stinking cool.
• 1:18:31
  Oh, it was. It was amazing experience.
• 1:18:34
  I mean, like I said, just such great people, great coaches.
• 1:18:37
  It's definitely something that's, I mean, obviously it's
• 1:18:39
  helped me get to where I am today, but it's just definitely
• 1:18:41
  an experience that I'll never, never, ever forget.
• 1:18:44
  So it was, it was truly amazing. Definitely grateful for that
• 1:18:47
  opportunity. I'm so proud you took the
• 1:18:49
  chance. I mean, honestly, there's a lot
• 1:18:51
  of people that won't take the chance.
• 1:18:54
  I'm not worthy. Why would they.
• 1:18:58
  I'm not good enough. I mean we and these are voices
• 1:19:01
  that are in our heads and if you really are honest with yourself
• 1:19:05
  it's every one of us at some point in time for some certain
• 1:19:09
  subject whether it's the job that we we're not air quotes
• 1:19:14
  good enough the the the the potential spouse of like I can't
• 1:19:19
  talk to him or her come on that's they're out of my league
• 1:19:22
  right. That's you know you hear that.
• 1:19:25
  So I I'm really proud of you of just like just stepping out and
• 1:19:28
  and really putting yourself out there for rejection.
• 1:19:32
  You know, not not hearing the response is rejection.
• 1:19:34
  Sorry everybody but to be. But I think to have a more
• 1:19:38
  successful fulfilling life you've got to be okay with
• 1:19:41
  hearing rejection because you got to go to.
• 1:19:44
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 1:19:45
  Well yeah. You're you're definitely the
• 1:19:47
  living embodiment of that, my friend because that's where the
• 1:19:51
  acceptance comes from. You you eventually will get to
• 1:19:54
  accept it. So.
• 1:19:55
  But if you go through blah land of never even asking the
• 1:19:58
  question, well golly that seems like the world's worst place to
• 1:20:01
  be. Like I don't.
• 1:20:03
  I don't mind hearing no. That's actually like, you know,
• 1:20:05
  being in the sales world. Yes is my favorite answer.
• 1:20:07
  Right. Hey, hey, Jay, you going to buy
• 1:20:08
  this? Yes.
• 1:20:09
  Awesome. That's great.
• 1:20:10
  I love that. I know.
• 1:20:12
  Is my second favorite answer. Honestly, it is.
• 1:20:14
  And I bet you if we put this back in the recruiting world,
• 1:20:17
  you'll maybe agree with me. Obviously, yes is your favorite
• 1:20:20
  answer when you're recruiting. Yes.
• 1:20:21
  I'm going to come to Midway. Love it.
• 1:20:22
  Awesome. That's why I'm recruiting you.
• 1:20:25
  Hey, Coach, I'm not coming to Midway.
• 1:20:27
  I'm going to go to some other school.
• 1:20:28
  Hey, that's awesome, man. Good luck to you.
• 1:20:31
  Thanks for not stringing me along.
• 1:20:33
  Or hey, thanks for not, you know, in your head.
• 1:20:35
  You told me no six weeks ago. But I've, I've called you and
• 1:20:38
  I've done a home visit and I've sent you mail and it's like, you
• 1:20:40
  know, I could have been doing other things those six weeks and
• 1:20:43
  they do it out of a out of a stance.
• 1:20:45
  Of so coaches, when they're not telling me yes or no or recruits
• 1:20:49
  when they're not telling you yes or no, they're doing it.
• 1:20:50
  I truly think from a stance of like, oh, I don't want to hurt
• 1:20:53
  their feelings. Oh yeah, I totally get it.
• 1:20:55
  No one wants to tell this face No I.
• 1:20:57
  Get it? I get it.
• 1:20:59
  But trust me, I have so much more love and respect for you
• 1:21:03
  when you tell me no, when it's an actual no, so that we can all
• 1:21:06
  move on. We can go do other great things.
• 1:21:08
  And by the way, that doesn't mean we're not going to do
• 1:21:10
  business later on. And by the way, that doesn't
• 1:21:12
  mean that recruit's not going to come back to you one day or that
• 1:21:15
  recruit's going to go tell a teammate and go, hey man, yeah,
• 1:21:17
  I'm not going to midway, but I really did like that guy.
• 1:21:19
  And his response when I told him no was like, he made me feel so
• 1:21:22
  good and you get that kid or another kid so.
• 1:21:25
  Oh, yes. That's something else that I've
• 1:21:26
  learned in recruiting is I don't ever close the door.
• 1:21:29
  Never. Decide they're going somewhere
• 1:21:31
  else, I say we I hate to see her that I cannot speak.
• 1:21:34
  I hate to hear that. But I, you know, wish you the
• 1:21:37
  best of luck. If you get there and you're not
• 1:21:38
  happy, or if your mind changes, please let me know.
• 1:21:42
  Especially in today's world, that was important in 1990 and
• 1:21:45
  1950 as well. But let me tell you what in 2023
• 1:21:48
  and 2024, if you're shutting doors, I don't.
• 1:21:52
  I'm not sure how you can be successful.
• 1:21:54
  I'm not. I'm really not.
• 1:21:56
  I'm not sure how you can be as the highest level that you think
• 1:22:00
  you want to be if that's your your posture.
• 1:22:02
  I really don't. I really don't.
• 1:22:04
  Okay. So you're at Louisville with Joe
• 1:22:06
  the third Lovett, Dale. Awesome, great, great people.
• 1:22:10
  You have a good year. You guys win the South, Central,
• 1:22:12
  Southeastern, South Central, right.
• 1:22:14
  Cross country, Southeastern, Eastern, yeah, Okay,
• 1:22:17
  Southeastern, cross country. Where do we go from there?
• 1:22:22
  So then I'm like, all right, so now it's, you know, I've got my
• 1:22:25
  life together. Everything's going well.
• 1:22:27
  So I'm like, all right, well, now it's all about progression.
• 1:22:29
  You know, it's like I teach with my kids all the time.
• 1:22:31
  Like I'm a big gallon progression.
• 1:22:32
  And so now I'm like, all right, what's the next step?
• 1:22:35
  So, you know, and then, of course, I'll let Joan know.
• 1:22:37
  I was like, I'm looking for jobs, you know, trying to, you
• 1:22:39
  know, may I use your for reference, you know, all that.
• 1:22:41
  And so then I'll start putting out, you know, applications and
• 1:22:44
  sending out resumes and. An assistant coaching position,
• 1:22:49
  part time assistant coaching position up at A Point Park
• 1:22:52
  University up in Pittsburgh, PA Kelly Parsley was the head coach
• 1:22:56
  there. Now that's a you talk about
• 1:22:59
  geographic changes and cures. Now that's way different than
• 1:23:03
  Louisville and Eastern Kentucky and Austin.
• 1:23:05
  P you know that's we're way out of the zone now.
• 1:23:08
  Yes, Sir, correct. But it was all about trying to
• 1:23:10
  move up that ladder for me. And you're right.
• 1:23:13
  We moved there not knowing anybody.
• 1:23:15
  So okay, let's Fast forward. Let's go backwards.
• 1:23:19
  So then Kelly reaches out to me and was like, hey, you know,
• 1:23:21
  he's like, you know, interested in you.
• 1:23:23
  And so we talked on the phone probably like an hour.
• 1:23:25
  And he's like, well, I'd like to bring you up to Pittsburgh and
• 1:23:27
  you know, put you up and show you around.
• 1:23:29
  And so and he brought my wife. Well, she wasn't my wife then,
• 1:23:32
  but Shannon. My girlfriend at the time, he
• 1:23:36
  brought her up there with us too and showed us around the town
• 1:23:39
  and took us out to eat and the campus and met a couple of the
• 1:23:42
  kids. And I mean I had a great visit
• 1:23:45
  and so then we left and then I think maybe two days later he
• 1:23:48
  called and offered me the position.
• 1:23:50
  So I took it and. Like I said, Shannon was my
• 1:23:55
  girlfriend at the time. It's only a year, but she was
• 1:23:59
  crazy enough to say if you're going, I'm going.
• 1:24:01
  So I was like, oh wow. Shannon.
• 1:24:03
  That which I wasn't expecting and so.
• 1:24:07
  She did. She she at least knew what was
• 1:24:08
  going on. This wasn't like, you know, you
• 1:24:11
  said, hey Shannon, we've been dating for a year.
• 1:24:13
  I'm going to be gone for the weekend.
• 1:24:15
  I'll be back and you go and go to Point Park and then come back
• 1:24:17
  and like, hey, I'm moving to like she went like she.
• 1:24:20
  She. Was on the job interview with
• 1:24:22
  you, so it was like, all right, he's, you know, he's at least
• 1:24:24
  got a shot. So that means I need to consider
• 1:24:26
  if I'm moving or not basically at that.
• 1:24:27
  Exactly. But the difficult thing was that
• 1:24:29
  she has four kids and. So that's where it was.
• 1:24:33
  I was like, this isn't, you know, and so she made a very
• 1:24:36
  difficult decision with us on the day for a year to leave her
• 1:24:40
  kids here because they're they're in a traditional school
• 1:24:42
  program in Louisville. And and you know, so, so she
• 1:24:45
  left and and went with me and they stayed here with her father
• 1:24:49
  who they had joint custody. So they were always, you know,
• 1:24:52
  but they stayed here with her father and we went up there, you
• 1:24:54
  know, six hours away. So it ended up being one of the
• 1:24:56
  toughest years. Of her.
• 1:24:58
  Life. I was thinking as you were
• 1:25:00
  saying that I was like. You want to know the definition
• 1:25:03
  of trust. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:25:07
  She's a wrong, that's for sure. Yeah, because I know Shannon's.
• 1:25:12
  Listen, I know you gonna listen to this.
• 1:25:14
  You just like I'm going to go talk to my wife about trust.
• 1:25:17
  Because I thought my wife trusted me.
• 1:25:18
  But I don't know if she would ever made this kind of decision.
• 1:25:20
  Shannon Bravo. What you obviously you know.
• 1:25:24
  You know what she kind of did. You know what?
• 1:25:26
  The superpower of a coach. To me is that you as a coach can
• 1:25:31
  see something in a young person athletically before they can see
• 1:25:34
  it in themselves. I think Shannon superpowered
• 1:25:39
  you. I think she was like, oh, no, I
• 1:25:41
  see this in JJ is going to be a great partner for me and my
• 1:25:44
  children. And maybe at that point you
• 1:25:46
  didn't see you were still just dating.
• 1:25:48
  You know, you weren't engaged or whatever.
• 1:25:50
  I think she saw something in you before you could actually see
• 1:25:52
  it. And she was like, all right,
• 1:25:53
  well, part of the part of that factor is going to be that I'm
• 1:25:55
  going to have to. To trust, I'm going to have to
• 1:25:57
  move to friggin Pittsburgh. It's cold up there, by the way,
• 1:26:01
  to go up there. So bravo Shannon.
• 1:26:03
  And man, Jay. You obviously are someone that
• 1:26:05
  can be trusted, my friend, because that is not an easy
• 1:26:08
  decision for a mom to make. Wow.
• 1:26:11
  Not at all. And that's and I told her, I
• 1:26:12
  said, you know, this is going to cause some issues, which it did.
• 1:26:16
  And that's why I was just to be honest, I was kind of worried
• 1:26:19
  about it And you know, I wouldn't say against it, but
• 1:26:22
  because I mean obviously, you know, I loved her and you know,
• 1:26:24
  I would love to have her with me, but I just, I could see a
• 1:26:25
  lot of. What would happen, you know, in
• 1:26:28
  the future And of course it did. And so it was a very, you know,
• 1:26:32
  tough said year earlier, but tough two year, almost two
• 1:26:35
  years. And so I stayed up there for no
• 1:26:37
  year and a half. Great experience.
• 1:26:39
  You know, Pittsburgh was amazing, Great food up there,
• 1:26:41
  great food up there. Park systems are amazing.
• 1:26:44
  The crushed limestone trails are everywhere.
• 1:26:48
  Working with Kelly, you know, it was a great experience,
• 1:26:51
  tremendous recruiter, you know. So I got, you know, to learn
• 1:26:53
  more about recruiting. And you know, we were there, we
• 1:26:58
  won couple conference championships just, you know,
• 1:27:02
  created those relationships, those kids again, which is
• 1:27:03
  always the hardest part, hardest part when you leave.
• 1:27:06
  But once again it came time for me to be like, all right, you
• 1:27:09
  know, it's time to take that next.
• 1:27:10
  Step What's next? Exactly.
• 1:27:12
  So spent there and it told Kelly.
• 1:27:14
  Of course, you know, and so I'm not ever trying to blindside
• 1:27:16
  anybody but you know, it's like we're trying to you know,
• 1:27:18
  progress the career here and. The job here, of course, and
• 1:27:22
  this is putting out me know how it is as a coach.
• 1:27:24
  I mean, I'm putting out probably 100 applications.
• 1:27:28
  So once again, like going back to when I said when I was
• 1:27:30
  younger and I was so young and naive, I don't know how hard it
• 1:27:32
  was to get into college coaching.
• 1:27:34
  So then I'm going through this process and I'm just like then
• 1:27:37
  it's, you know, I'm getting back to, well, you know, I don't know
• 1:27:40
  if this is ever going to happen, you know, So then you go back to
• 1:27:43
  the way it used to be, It's like, well, you know, it's like
• 1:27:46
  100, you know, 100 emails, 100 applications.
• 1:27:49
  Somebody we're going a different route or you know, you get a
• 1:27:52
  phone interview and then it's like, no.
• 1:27:54
  And I'm just like, you know, I maybe it's not meant to be.
• 1:27:55
  I was like maybe I'll go back to selling shoes, I don't know.
• 1:28:00
  But but, you know, it's just perseverance.
• 1:28:02
  And Shannon was a huge part of that.
• 1:28:04
  Like she was like you can't give up, you know, because she, she
• 1:28:07
  knows how passionate I am about it.
• 1:28:08
  And I think that's one of the reasons when she went to
• 1:28:11
  Pittsburgh is like because she sees how passionate about it,
• 1:28:13
  how much I truly enjoy and truly, you know, love these
• 1:28:16
  sports and also these kids in our program.
• 1:28:19
  And so she was just so supportive like she can't stop.
• 1:28:21
  She's got to keep doing it, keep doing it until then.
• 1:28:24
  The midway was was starting their ladies track and field
• 1:28:27
  program because a little history about Midway is we were in all
• 1:28:30
  female school up until 2016. It was all female school up
• 1:28:34
  until 2016. And they had a cross country and
• 1:28:38
  track and field program that started I think in the late 90s.
• 1:28:42
  And they had some success. They were you know a couple
• 1:28:44
  conference titles in cross country.
• 1:28:46
  They had you know. Local national qualifiers at
• 1:28:48
  least a warrant in the 800 and and also they had some some some
• 1:28:53
  good success but after that coaching staff left Gene Weiss
• 1:28:57
  and and David Longhorn left the program's kind of fell by the
• 1:29:00
  wayside and to where I think 2013 might have been the last
• 1:29:04
  year that they they even attended a conference and I
• 1:29:07
  think they only had like 6 ladies that might have been from
• 1:29:09
  conference so from like 2000 and.
• 1:29:11
  Like maybe 7:00 or so to like 2013, there just wasn't much of
• 1:29:15
  a program, but they decided that they wanted to, you know,
• 1:29:18
  restart the program and you know go 100% fully funded.
• 1:29:21
  And so they were trying to bring in a coach to start the
• 1:29:23
  programs. And so I applied for it and did
• 1:29:27
  the phone interview with Rusty and came down here and did the
• 1:29:32
  the campus interview. And you know, the one thing
• 1:29:34
  about Point Park and up there in Pittsburgh is.
• 1:29:37
  Point Park was literally in the middle of downtown Pittsburgh.
• 1:29:41
  So, you know, it's nothing but concrete.
• 1:29:43
  No. And I remember coming here and
• 1:29:45
  walking on campus as soon as we came along because of course,
• 1:29:47
  she came down with me and I walked on campus and I was like,
• 1:29:49
  oh, we have grass. They have trees.
• 1:29:51
  You know, I was just like, Oh my gosh, things.
• 1:29:53
  Are green here. Exactly.
• 1:29:55
  I was like, and this is December, this is December.
• 1:29:58
  But I'm like, just so excited. And then also just coming back
• 1:30:01
  home was a huge, you know, draw for us to get her back here.
• 1:30:04
  You know, she sacrificed so much for me.
• 1:30:06
  So it's my turn, you know, to get her back here to her, her,
• 1:30:10
  her children and her family. So then did the interview
• 1:30:13
  process on here. And Russ, he was like listening.
• 1:30:15
  He's like, I'm not not going to lie to you.
• 1:30:17
  He's like you're the only one who brought campus.
• 1:30:18
  He's like you're who we want and.
• 1:30:20
  So I was like, OK and you know, of course, you know I had to
• 1:30:22
  play the little not hard to get, but you know, like, all right,
• 1:30:24
  but let me think on it, you know type thing and what's in my
• 1:30:26
  heart. I'm like, all right, let's go,
• 1:30:28
  let's do it. I wanted to say yes right there.
• 1:30:31
  You're like, let me think about it as I'm designing my business
• 1:30:33
  card. Exactly.
• 1:30:36
  So we drove back home and talked to Shannon about it.
• 1:30:38
  Of course, Shannon was just like, like, please, you know,
• 1:30:41
  because like she was definitely ready to go back home to her
• 1:30:43
  kids. So And you caught him and said
• 1:30:46
  let's do it. And so that was January of 2018.
• 1:30:50
  So it came down and you know, so 18/19 it was our first full
• 1:30:54
  season. So from January to you know June
• 1:30:58
  as I'm trying to put together A-Team because we had nobody.
• 1:31:03
  It sounds like in my head I have like this go back to that summer
• 1:31:07
  of you back at Austin P like you're just like, all right, I
• 1:31:09
  got let's make a list. All right.
• 1:31:10
  We got we need a team. Let me make a list and let's
• 1:31:12
  start calling. And we our house was in lease up
• 1:31:16
  until like February in Pittsburgh.
• 1:31:17
  So I was doing most of the the work for the first two months up
• 1:31:20
  in Pittsburgh which is you know when you're starting a program
• 1:31:22
  it's just making those connections, getting on the
• 1:31:24
  phone, emails and just you know recruiting, recruiting,
• 1:31:26
  recruiting because that's all that's all that needed to be
• 1:31:28
  done at the time. And so you know did that all the
• 1:31:31
  way up until you know June, July until we got our first
• 1:31:33
  recruiting class of of just track and field student attics.
• 1:31:37
  They had a cross country team that's here.
• 1:31:39
  There was already a cross country coach.
• 1:31:40
  At the time so like I was just in charge of the track and field
• 1:31:44
  program and so recruited that and and I was the only coach
• 1:31:47
  that first year. I was the only coach on staff,
• 1:31:50
  you know because even the cross country coach, when it was over
• 1:31:52
  all the distance kids came to me and it was just me.
• 1:31:54
  And now I wasn't a big class we had.
• 1:31:56
  I think we had 1212 ladies that I recruited for just the track
• 1:32:00
  and field events and then I think we had maybe 8 ladies on
• 1:32:03
  the distance side. What happened to the cross
• 1:32:05
  country coach? Well.
• 1:32:09
  Because what I'm thinking about is like.
• 1:32:11
  You're now in Dave Dave's spot. Here's this cross country coach
• 1:32:15
  who has been at the program and now here comes this distance
• 1:32:18
  coach who's over the track program.
• 1:32:22
  It was Rob Longins, it was the cross country coach here cuz
• 1:32:26
  like I said they just had cross country and so I was just coming
• 1:32:28
  in to start track and. When I sat down at the interview
• 1:32:31
  with the athletic director and that's one thing I'll say is
• 1:32:33
  everything that he said. When we sat down and came to
• 1:32:35
  fruition, like there was nothing that he said that didn't happen.
• 1:32:37
  He was like this first year we're starting women's track and
• 1:32:39
  field. The plan is the next year to
• 1:32:41
  start men's track and field. So that's what we did.
• 1:32:44
  So when they did the following year, because my when I first
• 1:32:47
  came down here too as a head coach, I was only part time so I
• 1:32:49
  was only part time coach. So and then the next year he's
• 1:32:53
  like, well that's when we're going to create a full time
• 1:32:55
  position. So I applied for it, Rob didn't
• 1:32:58
  and so. Then we have both programs.
• 1:33:01
  So then I was the only fulltime coach and I end up having a very
• 1:33:05
  small stipend for assistant coaches that second year when we
• 1:33:08
  had men and women and so then we had a program of like 5050 or
• 1:33:12
  so. So then I had a very small
• 1:33:15
  stipend to to pay assistant coaches.
• 1:33:17
  So it's like 3 to $6000, you know, per assistant coach, which
• 1:33:20
  is you know, it's it's nothing and so.
• 1:33:24
  You know, the coaches that we hired and brought in, I was
• 1:33:26
  like, listen, the only thing I ask of you is just practice,
• 1:33:28
  just come to practice, you know, work with the kids and then come
• 1:33:31
  to meets, you know, So for the first five years I did all the,
• 1:33:35
  you know, the recruiting and just all the obviously
• 1:33:37
  administration duties and all that and so and because this is
• 1:33:41
  my fifth year and finally this January, well December.
• 1:33:45
  We hired another fulltime coach, a track coach.
• 1:33:47
  So I'm stepping aside from the head track and field coach just
• 1:33:50
  to be hit cross country and assistant, track and field
• 1:33:53
  coach. And he's coming in as the head
• 1:33:54
  track and field coach and you might know him also.
• 1:33:56
  He's a, he's a throws, throws coach.
• 1:33:58
  You know Dwayne Morris of. Course.
• 1:34:01
  Yeah. So that's that's who we hired
• 1:34:03
  so. He's the track.
• 1:34:04
  And field coach here now. So he's taking over the reins
• 1:34:07
  and it has been such a such a pleasure and just a welcome
• 1:34:10
  addition just with recruiting alone as you know it's just such
• 1:34:13
  a. And I'm not complaining because
• 1:34:15
  I love it and I enjoy it. But you know, that's all this is
• 1:34:17
  the lifeblood of your program. And when you got just one person
• 1:34:20
  just trying to recruit every event, you know, So he's been a
• 1:34:25
  huge help, you know, great addition.
• 1:34:27
  He's, you know, brought in some people already and so super
• 1:34:29
  excited just that you know two people you know here and you
• 1:34:32
  know, we still have our assistant coaches, you know, the
• 1:34:34
  stipend that we have for that. And so that's just the.
• 1:34:37
  The the first step and now we've broke ground on building the
• 1:34:40
  track on campus, you know, so we're excited about that as well
• 1:34:43
  too. So let's go back to that.
• 1:34:45
  No, it's Okay put a pin on that because we that's how I like to
• 1:34:48
  wrap things up with like what's got you excited and I know a new
• 1:34:50
  facility and Dwayne and everything is definitely excited
• 1:34:53
  and I do know Dwayne, great guy you said something though there
• 1:34:56
  I don't want to just gloss over because I think it might it has
• 1:35:00
  to say something about you in a positive manner.
• 1:35:03
  So you've been the head coach there for five years bust in
• 1:35:07
  your hump. I mean, you know being the
• 1:35:09
  primary, the only full time coach the recruiting plus the
• 1:35:12
  coaching plus the admin and. And we can never forget when we
• 1:35:17
  talk about coaches. I like to always make sure I
• 1:35:19
  throw in there that you know you have a family and a personal
• 1:35:23
  life and charities and passions. We we tend to think like Oh well
• 1:35:27
  coaching is 24/7 like. You know, there's nothing, you
• 1:35:30
  know, you don't do anything else.
• 1:35:32
  And like, well, that's not true at all.
• 1:35:33
  Like, you know there are other things besides coaching is your
• 1:35:36
  job, not your life. Your life is your life.
• 1:35:39
  And so you're doing all those things and you're the head
• 1:35:42
  honcho, you're the head coach. You know, that's a great resume
• 1:35:43
  builder. It's a very great ego builder.
• 1:35:46
  You know, it's nice to say you're the head coach and things
• 1:35:47
  like that. And that's an important title.
• 1:35:49
  No, no, no doubt about it. And you said, you know they they
• 1:35:53
  hired Dwayne now and you've taken a step back.
• 1:35:56
  You're going to be the head cross country and assistant
• 1:35:57
  track and Dwayne will oversee track as the head coach and you
• 1:36:00
  just set it and just move right along.
• 1:36:02
  Jay, that's not unique. And what I mean by that is you
• 1:36:10
  you ego is not bad, bad ego is bad.
• 1:36:13
  And not only do we get very wrapped up in the title of
• 1:36:16
  coach, we certainly get wrapped up in sometimes in the title of
• 1:36:20
  head coach. I'm the head honcho.
• 1:36:22
  The buck stops with me. I, you know, it all comes
• 1:36:24
  through me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:36:26
  And you're now giving up some of that power, if you will, air
• 1:36:29
  quotes. They're under power to Duane.
• 1:36:32
  And it sounds like it's going well.
• 1:36:35
  And I hope it is and I'm and I think it is.
• 1:36:38
  And that's where I think it says a lot about you.
• 1:36:39
  You know, I don't know how many people could just do that.
• 1:36:43
  Like, could, you know, it's like, Oh yeah, no, you can hire
• 1:36:45
  Dwayne as an assistant. Like, I'm still going to be the
• 1:36:47
  head coach, though, right. Like Dwayne will report to me
• 1:36:49
  and you know, we'll and together we'll attack this.
• 1:36:52
  But instead, you and I don't know why the decision.
• 1:36:54
  Maybe you can share why the decision was split it up that
• 1:36:57
  way. But it seems like you were like,
• 1:36:59
  yeah, yeah, this might be what's best for the program.
• 1:37:01
  So OK, I'll fall in line. This is what's right, then this
• 1:37:04
  is what's right, and I'll do it. Well, ultimately, Rusty was the
• 1:37:07
  athletic director of time. Pretty much left it up up to me
• 1:37:10
  and so. My philosophy was like 2 heads
• 1:37:14
  are obviously better than one, you know, so to say, I guess
• 1:37:17
  figuratively but so I, you know, cuz I could very well just say
• 1:37:21
  I'll just be the director and we'll hire him as you know
• 1:37:23
  assistant coach but but I didn't want that you know I wanted to
• 1:37:26
  get another full time head track and field coach in here somebody
• 1:37:30
  that cuz that's the only thing that has bugged me since I've
• 1:37:33
  been here is that being the head.
• 1:37:36
  You know, cross country coach and then also the head track and
• 1:37:38
  field coach and then your coaches are only part time so
• 1:37:41
  they have full time jobs. And so like when in the fall
• 1:37:44
  when I'm with the cross country team, you know our assistant
• 1:37:47
  coaches did, they came in and they you know they worked out
• 1:37:49
  during we started in September with the kids.
• 1:37:51
  But I feel I still felt like they weren't getting maybe
• 1:37:54
  exactly what they needed, you know and I hate even having to
• 1:37:56
  say that. But, you know, I feel like they
• 1:37:58
  might have been getting the, you know, the slide into the stick.
• 1:38:00
  Well you were doing we we can't forget this part in this
• 1:38:04
  specific example. But in a lot of other examples
• 1:38:06
  you were doing the best you can. It ain't like you were holding
• 1:38:09
  back resources. You're like you know what, I
• 1:38:10
  know I got a full time position. But you know instead I'm just
• 1:38:14
  going to hire a couple of volunteer 3000, you know
• 1:38:16
  parttime coaches. So we can't you can't have that.
• 1:38:20
  I know you wanted better for the kids and then for the program,
• 1:38:23
  but we can't have that as like. As a like a stopping block of
• 1:38:27
  like oh you know I felt bad you you were doing the best you
• 1:38:29
  could. You know we we we all have our
• 1:38:31
  things. I mean from Midway to Oregon,
• 1:38:34
  even Oregon believe it or not has issues.
• 1:38:37
  They have their own things that they have to to overcome.
• 1:38:40
  So there's no feeling bad there. You were doing a great job and
• 1:38:44
  doing the very best you could with the resources that you had
• 1:38:46
  at hand. So I just want to point that out
• 1:38:48
  because I think. We definitely, well, our
• 1:38:50
  assistant coaches were doing an amazing job too, like I said.
• 1:38:52
  They were working absolutely. Jobs as well.
• 1:38:56
  So you know, I can't commend them, you know, enough,
• 1:38:58
  especially for what we were paying them.
• 1:39:01
  You know, they stepped in and did a great job.
• 1:39:03
  But I think it's just having somebody here that's going to be
• 1:39:06
  here full time also. Like, you know when I'm at the
• 1:39:08
  cross country team and if I'm, we're at practice at you know,
• 1:39:11
  3:00 o'clock. But I have, you know a sprinter
• 1:39:13
  that needs, you know, they need somebody to talk to or they need
• 1:39:16
  you know like at least now Dwayne can be here, you know, so
• 1:39:19
  they'll have somebody to go to because we travel off campus a
• 1:39:22
  lot because I'm big soft surface guy.
• 1:39:23
  So we're going to all these. Beautiful parks we have close to
• 1:39:26
  us to train so and like now at least there will always be
• 1:39:29
  somebody here so that's just I'm just ecstatic to.
• 1:39:32
  Be honest, kudos. Kudos to you and even bigger
• 1:39:36
  kudos that it was your decision that you could have gone a
• 1:39:38
  different route with it. Because again, I don't know.
• 1:39:40
  I think if we, if we as coaches were to really look inside and
• 1:39:44
  we have that decision in front of us, how many would say, you
• 1:39:46
  know what, I think what's best for the program is to give that
• 1:39:48
  person the head head track job. Let me focus on the cross
• 1:39:51
  country and distance and let's move together as one.
• 1:39:55
  Versus like no, no I'm the head coach like everybody can fall in
• 1:39:58
  behind me type of thing. You know I'm not sure how many
• 1:40:00
  of us would have made that decision even to the detriment
• 1:40:03
  of our program. So I I just that's why I didn't
• 1:40:05
  want to just you just you said it and moved right on I was like
• 1:40:08
  hold on man this ain't normal let's talk about this.
• 1:40:10
  So I I just think it says a lot about you and and your care and
• 1:40:15
  love for the program and obviously for the athletes that
• 1:40:17
  are that make up that program. We got a great group of young
• 1:40:20
  men and women here, that's for sure, and assistant coaches and
• 1:40:23
  then now Dwayne, so definitely blessed, that's for sure.
• 1:40:26
  Well, as we wrap up here and close to our time, Jay, it's my
• 1:40:30
  favorite question because you get to brag a little bit and
• 1:40:32
  you've been doing a great job of it and I love that.
• 1:40:34
  As you look towards 2024 season, obviously you have 23 cross
• 1:40:38
  country as well and the next 135 years, what's what's got you
• 1:40:42
  excited there at the the Midway Eagles?
• 1:40:46
  Tell you what I'm just excited about, you know all the.
• 1:40:49
  New faces we've got coming in, you know, starting off, it's
• 1:40:53
  always like I said, having Dewayne Hearse helps.
• 1:40:55
  Now we got two people battlements, recruiting things.
• 1:40:57
  So you know, so now we're hopefully going to be up to you
• 1:41:00
  know around 60 or over 65, somewhere around there as far as
• 1:41:04
  our student athletes. And we're just a little, we're a
• 1:41:05
  little small school with the Roman of like 700 kids, you
• 1:41:09
  know, so we're very small school, seven, 750.
• 1:41:12
  No way. So almost 10% of on campus is
• 1:41:16
  running track. Cross country there Midway.
• 1:41:19
  Yes, Sir. That's awesome.
• 1:41:21
  Love it. But then also as I mentioned
• 1:41:24
  earlier, we're out there building a new track right now.
• 1:41:28
  So that is in the process and that's going back to that
• 1:41:31
  interview with Rusty, the phone interview.
• 1:41:33
  Obviously I have my own questions for him and one of my
• 1:41:36
  questions I had was. Are there any plans to to build
• 1:41:39
  a track on campus, you know, in the near future before I could
• 1:41:42
  even finish this sentence, he was like no.
• 1:41:45
  So you know, five years later, you know, here we are, you know,
• 1:41:49
  building a track on campus. And you know, I definitely think
• 1:41:52
  it's, it's a testament to to the kids we have in our program
• 1:41:55
  because we have kids that are very active, you know on on
• 1:41:58
  campus in our community. And our Board of of Directors
• 1:42:02
  sees that and they noticed that and that just the success, the
• 1:42:05
  few successes that we have had, you know, as a program.
• 1:42:08
  I know that's it's definitely, it's been noticed and you know,
• 1:42:11
  and I think that they're like, hey, you know it's let's know
• 1:42:14
  they're doing this and they're doing this with these limited
• 1:42:16
  resources. So let's see, you know if we do
• 1:42:18
  this, you know let's see what else can happen.
• 1:42:21
  So, so that's just it's an exciting, exciting year just I
• 1:42:25
  mean not only for Midway Athletics but our university
• 1:42:27
  we're growing, you know, and I'm sitting right now my office is
• 1:42:31
  in a field house which is maybe two years old.
• 1:42:35
  So we've got a, you know, if at an athletic field house and add
• 1:42:37
  an additional 20,000 extra, you know, square feet of athletic
• 1:42:40
  space, a second auxiliary gym, a new weight room, a bunch of
• 1:42:43
  coaches offices, you know, meeting room, laundry facility.
• 1:42:47
  So you know it's when I a lot has changed from when I first
• 1:42:51
  got here. Let me do this.
• 1:42:52
  You'll get a kick out of this. Mike.
• 1:42:54
  My first year here, when it was just me with the track team, I
• 1:42:58
  would take our ladies. We had this building that was.
• 1:43:01
  It's the presence building now and so now it's been completely
• 1:43:04
  remodeled and it's now it's our admissions welcome center and
• 1:43:06
  it's HR and all these other. But down in the basement it was
• 1:43:09
  just a bunch of empty classrooms in a straight hallway.
• 1:43:12
  So that was a place that I could take our ladies and we had a
• 1:43:16
  spot of our own. It was nothing fancy.
• 1:43:19
  It was a hallway the where or can I can even the classrooms
• 1:43:24
  was a straight straight. Straight away and it was it was
• 1:43:28
  through a door but it was a wider door so we could get like
• 1:43:30
  the first two hurdles to work on and then there was some stairs
• 1:43:34
  on the opposite side that we could because there was just the
• 1:43:36
  building was pretty much I'm not abandoned but there just wasn't
• 1:43:38
  a lot going on there and so we would do stairs and there it was
• 1:43:41
  just but it was a place that we had that was our own you know
• 1:43:44
  like we could get away that we didn't have to reserve or or
• 1:43:47
  fight for the weight room or or something like that you know and
• 1:43:50
  so and I was actually doing my visit campus visit yesterday and
• 1:43:54
  and. I'll walk down and show them
• 1:43:55
  that because it's kind of like sentimental.
• 1:43:57
  I know it for sure. But now it's like HR and
• 1:44:00
  business offices are all down there.
• 1:44:01
  And I was like, yeah, I was like just a fun factory.
• 1:44:03
  I was like this is where we used to practice my first year, you
• 1:44:06
  know. So it's just then just looking
• 1:44:08
  back and just seeing how far and you know that the program and
• 1:44:11
  just not the program but the school and universities came,
• 1:44:13
  it's it's, it's amazing. We're growing and like I said,
• 1:44:16
  we have a lot of land. It's a beautiful campus.
• 1:44:18
  And I encourage, you know, anybody, just, you know, look us
• 1:44:21
  up, youknowmidway.edu, take the virtual tour.
• 1:44:23
  It's it's a beautiful. Our CEO, David Hodge, who was a
• 1:44:28
  really Allamerican pole vaulter in his own right, he's a great
• 1:44:31
  athlete. He's the greatest leader I've
• 1:44:33
  ever worked for, has a saying that I heard on, I think on the
• 1:44:36
  very first day I got here 17 years ago and it's repeated
• 1:44:38
  quite often. Healthy things grow.
• 1:44:41
  If you think about that, when you think of plants or people or
• 1:44:44
  businesses, healthy things grow. So we love hearing.
• 1:44:50
  Of programs, universities that are growing.
• 1:44:53
  That means some healthy things are going on there, right?
• 1:44:55
  So your program, your roster is growing, your coaching staff is
• 1:45:00
  growing, The university's growing, You're getting, you
• 1:45:03
  talked about that old Mccolloch, the abandoned building that you
• 1:45:07
  know at least a place to call your own.
• 1:45:08
  Well, now you're building a real palace to call your own right
• 1:45:12
  there on campus. So that just is so awesome to
• 1:45:16
  hear, man. Healthy things grow, and it
• 1:45:18
  sounds like things are very healthy.
• 1:45:20
  Right now at Midway, track and field cross country.
• 1:45:23
  Yes, Sir. We have a great president, a
• 1:45:25
  great president who backs athletics.
• 1:45:29
  Very, very supportive of athletics.
• 1:45:31
  We're definitely blessed for that as well, too.
• 1:45:32
  He's a great man and he's turned this university around.
• 1:45:36
  I mean, I'm a pretty honest person and sometimes honest to a
• 1:45:38
  fault. Like when he first got here,
• 1:45:40
  this place was in bad shape. We're probably on the verge of
• 1:45:43
  shutting down, you know, so. He's completely turned it
• 1:45:46
  around, you know, and we're growing and everything's headed
• 1:45:49
  in the right direction and it's just it's an exciting time to be
• 1:45:51
  an Eagle in a Midway University student athlete.
• 1:45:55
  Oh man, I love it. I love hearing it.
• 1:45:57
  And Jay, I love you, man. I'm just so.
• 1:46:01
  I'm. So proud of you.
• 1:46:02
  I mean, you know, to fight and continue to fight today with the
• 1:46:07
  things that you fight personally and then also the things you
• 1:46:10
  fight for professionally, it's not easy.
• 1:46:14
  You know, we all have. We all have our our our hills to
• 1:46:18
  climb, our battles to fight and things like that.
• 1:46:21
  But you know some of the battles that you were just so open and
• 1:46:24
  authentic with us today, those are hard ones.
• 1:46:28
  And they, you know, they're not they're not one time events.
• 1:46:30
  They're, you know, every day you wake up, I know you, you you
• 1:46:33
  have to fight and have the resolve to be the man that you
• 1:46:36
  want to be, the coach that you want to be, the husband you want
• 1:46:39
  to be, the dad that you want to be, the son you want to be.
• 1:46:42
  That it's a constant every. Ticking of that clock.
• 1:46:45
  And so for you to sit here today as a leader of the Midway
• 1:46:50
  University Eagles, a leader in our sport, a leader in your
• 1:46:53
  family, I'm just so proud of you, man.
• 1:46:56
  I mean, there are, as you were telling your story.
• 1:47:00
  You know, I try to put myself in other people's shoes.
• 1:47:02
  I try to like when you're telling a story I I like, I'm
• 1:47:04
  more of a a visual guy. So the movie is running through
• 1:47:07
  my head like like the hallway. I'm literally like picturing the
• 1:47:10
  hallway and I've got my own ideas of where you were putting
• 1:47:12
  the hurdles and how, how dim or how bright the lights were.
• 1:47:15
  You know, it's I'm just playing that movie And as you were
• 1:47:18
  sharing your fantastic journey, you warned me, by the way, well,
• 1:47:21
  before we hit record today, Jay says, well, I'm have.
• 1:47:24
  I got a pretty untraditional path.
• 1:47:26
  And I was like, well, everybody does, Yeah.
• 1:47:28
  We have not. We have not had this.
• 1:47:30
  Every, you know, 200 and something coaches, they've all
• 1:47:32
  had their own paths that Jay you had your own path for sure on
• 1:47:34
  this one buddy. But as you're sharing your
• 1:47:38
  absolutely fantastic journey. I again, you know as part of
• 1:47:42
  like watching a movie, when you put yourself in a movie, you
• 1:47:44
  know you start thinking about oh man.
• 1:47:47
  Like he could have quit right here.
• 1:47:49
  Like when you were talking about certain spots like Oh yeah Jay
• 1:47:51
  could have quit on a lot of things here I'm talking about
• 1:47:53
  you know and you keep going, you bounce back and there's like, Oh
• 1:47:56
  yeah, Jay could have quit right there like and no one would have
• 1:47:58
  blamed them. So for you to continue to fight
• 1:48:01
  as we're staring into the middle of 2023 and you know you've got
• 1:48:05
  visions and goals for 2024 and 2030 and 2040, man, I'm
• 1:48:11
  literally, I'm just so proud of you.
• 1:48:13
  I'm a little bit. I was.
• 1:48:15
  I don't know I'm a little bit speechless here.
• 1:48:17
  I just, I'm so proud of you, man.
• 1:48:18
  You're such a fighter. I'm so happy that I that I
• 1:48:22
  invited you and that you agreed. Not everybody agrees.
• 1:48:25
  So sorry it took so long and it was like a bunch of obstacles to
• 1:48:28
  go, but finally were able to make it.
• 1:48:30
  I remember your first e-mail back was like, look man, I'm in
• 1:48:32
  the middle of this, this and this and this.
• 1:48:33
  Can we talk in July? And I was like, yeah, I get you
• 1:48:35
  busy. So no worries man, no worries.
• 1:48:37
  You at least responded Jay, You know, shocker, not everybody
• 1:48:41
  that I invite even responds back to me, so.
• 1:48:44
  I must have remembered to flag that e-mail.
• 1:48:45
  That's probably why. I must have done it not during
• 1:48:48
  practice. Thank.
• 1:48:52
  But I'm so thankful that you did say yes and that you came here.
• 1:48:55
  And again, you know, you, I don't know, you know, listeners
• 1:48:59
  out there, I don't know if you haven't been on the show.
• 1:49:01
  You don't know how the process of the show goes, But, you know,
• 1:49:04
  you can ask anyone of our guests.
• 1:49:05
  You can ask Jay when you see him next time.
• 1:49:08
  Very little set up. Like, you know, it's literally
• 1:49:10
  like an invitation to join us on the podcast.
• 1:49:13
  I have this little kind of Word document that kind of just gives
• 1:49:15
  very cursory things of like, hey, you know, if you have your
• 1:49:17
  phones, that's great. If not, no biggie, but here's
• 1:49:19
  what you expect, blah blah, blah.
• 1:49:21
  No questions, no preset questions.
• 1:49:23
  And then when we schedule the time, so today when we scheduled
• 1:49:27
  Jay and we hopped on Zoom, we had, I don't know, five, maybe
• 1:49:31
  10 minutes. Ours was fairly quick.
• 1:49:33
  Sometimes it goes 15. I'm just kind of flow.
• 1:49:35
  It's more about so that the guest knows how this is going to
• 1:49:38
  go, the, the, the, the rat, a tat tat type of part, you know,
• 1:49:40
  like, OK, we're going to talk, you're going to talk, I'll ask
• 1:49:42
  questions, blah, blah. And then we hit record and so
• 1:49:46
  Jay here had no set up. He didn't know what questions
• 1:49:49
  were going to come. I don't know the story, by the
• 1:49:51
  way. I don't know where Ji didn't
• 1:49:53
  know J Austin P and everything like that and and the battles
• 1:49:57
  he's been through and that he's winning on a daytoday basis.
• 1:49:59
  So, So I'm just proud of you. I mean, this is not an easy
• 1:50:02
  thing. I understand that's not easy to
• 1:50:04
  share and I appreciate you sharing a lot of stories you've
• 1:50:06
  never shared publicly before and I just want to give you just
• 1:50:10
  encouragement that you know that.
• 1:50:12
  It feels like you are in coaching for the right reason,
• 1:50:14
  to help other young people. And I just want you to know
• 1:50:17
  that, you know, you sharing these stories today is again,
• 1:50:20
  going to help people who are listening today.
• 1:50:22
  This is going to be one of those transformational episodes where
• 1:50:26
  people are like, oh, you know, like, like no one's going to
• 1:50:29
  e-mail you or I right off the bat.
• 1:50:31
  Someone will, I guarantee you. But most people aren't.
• 1:50:33
  Four years from now, you're going to be at a track meet.
• 1:50:36
  Somebody's going to come up to you and say, hey, man.
• 1:50:38
  So I listened to that podcast you were on a few years ago.
• 1:50:42
  I was battling some things that I thought were the.
• 1:50:44
  I actually wasn't battling. I was doing the things that I
• 1:50:46
  wasn't supposed to be doing. But I heard about you and your
• 1:50:49
  resolve and your strength and your overcomeness, and it led me
• 1:50:54
  to go to counseling or to a. A or to what whatever that
• 1:50:58
  person needs you're going to hear.
• 1:50:59
  I'm, I'm going to predict the future here in the next four to
• 1:51:01
  five years. You're going to hear someone's
• 1:51:03
  story of how this. What you think is a very you
• 1:51:07
  know, where we two hours here, 2 hours of your life.
• 1:51:09
  That's a very small point of your whole life that it's going
• 1:51:12
  to affect someone's life for the good for a long time.
• 1:51:15
  I I just know it's going to happen because your story is so
• 1:51:18
  important, man. I'm just so, so thankful for
• 1:51:20
  you. No, thanks for you Mike.
• 1:51:22
  And that you know if they're out there and they're listening, if
• 1:51:24
  they're struggling, man, I'll tell you is is just if I can do
• 1:51:27
  it, anybody can do it. And it's just it's it's a great
• 1:51:31
  support group. And taking it one day at a time.
• 1:51:33
  And, you know, that's something that Shannon couldn't
• 1:51:35
  understand. When we first got together, I
• 1:51:37
  was straight upon us With her. I was like, listen, I was like,
• 1:51:39
  I'm letting you know, I'm an alcoholic, recovering alcoholic.
• 1:51:42
  And so I told her that. And she was like, OK And I was
• 1:51:45
  like, so I have to live my life one day at a time.
• 1:51:47
  I'm like, because that's all I'm guaranteed.
• 1:51:49
  So And that's kind of she was like, what?
• 1:51:51
  She's the big planner, you know, She's the wife.
• 1:51:53
  She's, you know, she's the list person too.
• 1:51:55
  But she's the big planner. And that's why I would be like,
• 1:51:57
  she's asked me something. I'm like, I don't know.
• 1:51:59
  I just, she's like, what? What do you mean you don't know?
• 1:52:01
  I'm like. I'm gonna have to get get to
• 1:52:02
  that when I get there. I was like right now I have
• 1:52:04
  these other priorities that you know I got to make sure because
• 1:52:06
  if if I don't take care of these priorities then you're not going
• 1:52:09
  to see me. I'm not going to be here so and
• 1:52:12
  she was you know she understood that and like I said that's you
• 1:52:14
  know she's she's the writer die she's definitely a big part of
• 1:52:17
  that support group. But man it it's if if you need
• 1:52:20
  help it's out there and you know I'm here So anybody needs
• 1:52:23
  anything. If you hear this please just you
• 1:52:24
  know don't hesitate to reach out to me and that's you know that's
• 1:52:26
  how I'm here you know somebody do that for me and.
• 1:52:29
  Like I said, by taking it one day at a time, August 31st, you
• 1:52:32
  know I'm blessed to to see ten you're sober, so.
• 1:52:35
  Dude, Shannon, you're a rock star.
• 1:52:39
  Jay, you're a rock star. One of the I want to speak on
• 1:52:42
  that and then wrap it up here, Jay said.
• 1:52:47
  To get it, you have to give it. I might be paraphrasing there,
• 1:52:49
  but so you heard, Jay. If if he's the person that that
• 1:52:54
  you need to talk to to start getting things straight, If it's
• 1:52:58
  a counselor, don't you know pride?
• 1:53:00
  Again, there's pride is not bad. Bad pride is bad.
• 1:53:04
  So if if pride is is stopped you from seeking a counselor,
• 1:53:08
  seeking someone to talk to, calling that person that maybe
• 1:53:11
  you needed to reconcile with, even though you know those are
• 1:53:14
  demons that we fight as well. I'm just going to encourage you.
• 1:53:17
  I mean, look at Jay. Jay's just killing it right now,
• 1:53:19
  right? Jay was not killing it a while
• 1:53:22
  back. But he continues.
• 1:53:23
  He's going on 10 years. Come on, brother.
• 1:53:25
  That's amazing, Jay. You know that 10 years, that 10
• 1:53:29
  years started one day. And so I just want to encourage
• 1:53:32
  you if you are fighting addictions.
• 1:53:36
  Of all kinds out there. It starts with the one day.
• 1:53:39
  So what's a better day to start? Well, yesterday was the best day
• 1:53:41
  to start. So today is the second best day.
• 1:53:43
  So let's, let's go get it started today.
• 1:53:45
  And we're out. I'm just going to stop the
• 1:53:46
  podcast right there because I don't know how else to to end it
• 1:53:49
  right there. Jay, thank you so much, man.
• 1:53:50
  Appreciate you. Mike, thanks for having me.
• 1:53:52
  I appreciate it. Have a great day.