Latest / All The Right Movies / Ex Machina (2014) | Ep. 36 - Part 1

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Ex Machina (2014) | Ep. 36 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

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All the movies you are dead center of the greatest
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scientific event in the history of man.
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Hello. Hi.
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Do you want to be my friend? Of course.
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Does Ava actually like you? Is she just pretending to like
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you? Why did you give her sexuality?
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Are you attracted to me? This is your insecurity topic.
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I shouldn't trust him. We talk about the lies you've
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been spinning me. You have to help.
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Me who is the real past you? Ex.
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Machina Radar Ex Machina was released in 2014 and they
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claimed that one of the great science fiction films this
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century, Alex Garland's tale of a computer programmer,
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billionaire genius and super smart Gynoid.
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The film is an exploration of AI, isolation and trust.
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My name is John and the Mr. Quotables with me are Westy.
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I'm going to tear up the fucking dance floor, dude.
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Check it out. And Matt, you don't know that
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movie Ghost Gifts Dan Aykroyd oral sex.
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All the right movies are taking the ultimate cheering test in
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Alaska to find out that no matter how rich you get, shit
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still goes wrong. Hello and welcome to all the
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right movies, Death, Destroyer of Worlds, and the podcast on
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classic and hit films. Yep.
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And not Oppenheimer. Yeah.
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I'll use that one again, then just get confused this week.
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It's the thinking, film fans, kind of an episode maybe?
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Where in near future Alaska are Norway as we talk the 21st
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century sci-fi classic that is Ex Machina.
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It sounds good. Is that how you pronounce it?
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I've been calling it Ex Machina since 2015.
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Let's do both. Yeah, all.
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Bases covered, then someone's got to be right, haven't they?
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Before we do get too technical, though, I think we should
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quickly mention Patreon, do you think?
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Yep, definitely yes. So if you listen regularly to
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our ATRM Classic episodes and would like us to keep on doing
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them, you can help support that by becoming an ATRM Patron.
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Patrons get access to our bonus podcast episode called Double
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Feature and access to our whole archive of bonus episodes and
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ATRM Classic episodes such as this one.
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There's like hundreds of hours worth of stuff in there now.
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So if you like science fiction, we have Inception, The Matrix.
2:44
Yes, if you're into AI, Blade Runner in Terminator Two are in
2:48
there. Loads of non science fiction in
2:50
there as well. So if you like your films, give
2:53
it a go. Oh.
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It's the place to be, yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah. If you like living by yourself
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out in the mountains for months on end.
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And who doesn't? You need to be a parent to keep
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yourself occupied. Yeah.
3:04
Rather than have sex with robots.
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Yeah, I mean, that's an option. It is an option, you know, no
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judgement stick. It up in the backroom, it's
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like, you know, why not? So to find out more and sign up,
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please visit patreon.com/all the Right Movies.
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Or if you're an Apple Podcast user, you can subscribe directly
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on there now as well. Just look for the Subscribe
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button on there, give it a click and you're away there.
3:26
You go click of a button. What could be easier?
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For now, though, it's the AAA's artificial intelligence, Alex,
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Garland and Eva. Yeah.
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It's X marketer. Yeah.
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So why are we talking about it, Matt?
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I think this is a really interesting left field choice.
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I didn't actually think it would come anywhere close to winning
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the pool, so it was a pleasant surprise and I pretty much saw
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this on a whim. I knew very little about it and
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I came out afterwards very pleasantly surprised again by
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what it was. I think it is a smart,
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intriguing film. It does have this big
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philosophical question at the heart of it, but it's not just
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about the philosophy, it's switches of genres.
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It's a thriller at times. It's got fantastic performances
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and it does make you question things and it does take you on a
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journey that is thought provoking but quite disturbing
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at the same time. So yeah, I'm very glad this one.
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Yeah, I was as well. I mean, I remember the first
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time I heard about this was in a feature in Empire magazine when
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the visitor the set during production.
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At first I thought it was not optation of a comic book I used
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to read, also called Ex Machina, this like post 911 DC story, but
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it's definitely not that. But the article was like, it
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explores artificial intelligence right on my street by the guy
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who wrote 28 Days Later in the Sunshine.
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Yeah. And then when I saw the images
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of Ava, I was just like, He has me money.
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Do what you want with it. Yeah, I bet you.
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Were incredible. You were?
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Yeah. And when I watched it that first
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time, I was riveted to the screen.
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So much to talk about with the film Alex Garland.
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I think it's an interesting filmmaker generally.
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This was the first time I really became aware of Alicia Vikand
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and Oscar Isaac and the cast who went on to have great careers.
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And The Soldier Matter in AI has been talked about in fiction for
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like 150 years and maybe never been more relevant than it is
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now. Yeah.
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Very much have. You seen the UEI tools you get
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in Photoshop Westie? Yes, I have.
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Unbelievable. Does all the work for you.
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Exactly, yeah. Finished work at lunchtime now.
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I mean, well, that's a good thing or a bad thing.
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Remains to be seen. Yeah, yeah, Ex Machina.
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Not the book, unfortunately, but let's get it in there.
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Yeah, sure thing. And how about you, her next Mac
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and now Westy? Yeah, I mean it's just a nerds
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dream, isn't it? I mean there's so much in there
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to delve into and look for and I think there's a lot more in
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there than Alex Garland actually proposed or thought ever would
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be. So it depends how far you read
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into this. There's, you know, there's
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religious overtones. There's obviously there's a
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technological overtones. There's elements of Black Mirror
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in there, which I think is quite weird because series one of
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Black Mirror was 2011, series two was 2013, and then there was
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a special in 2014 and there was a break in 2015 when this came
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out. And then series 3A, Black Mirror
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came out in 2016. So I think there might be
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something kind of going on hand in hand here with them.
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Two things. I think they're very interlinked
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and they are, you know, seeing pretty much the same thing.
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So I think it's a very interesting conversation for
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this to be almost like a feature length version of a Black Mirror
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episode, which I think is is really excellent.
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There's a lot to get into. There's a lot to unfold.
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There's some great behind the scenes stuff.
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I think some of the effects in this are the best I've seen for
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a long, long time and they still hold up now.
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I think the absolutely fantastic performances are excellent.
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I think the cinematography is excellent.
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I think it's just a really, really good film.
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It seems very simple and at the same time very complex.
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So that's something I really enjoy diving into.
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So let's go ahead and do it. So Ex Machina was produced by
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film 4IN DNA Films, distributed by A 24 and Universal and
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released on the 21st of January 2014.
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Filmed on location in Norway in England, it was written and
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directed by Alex Garland and it stars Don't All Gleason as Caleb
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Smith, Oscar Isaac as Nathan Bateman and Alicia Vikanda as
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Eva. Let's go for it then.
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Get your key cards ready. We're talking in the beginning
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of Ex Machina. The opening of Ex Machina is
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full of character introductions, so that's what we're getting
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into. Our first sight of Star of the
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show, Eva is coming, but first we're meeting a couple of likely
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lads. Aren't we?
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You could say that, I guess, yeah.
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Not the likely lads. Unfortunately not.
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Imagine them in there, bumbling around, not trying to find out
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what the football score was. So the first scenes of Ex
8:02
Machina bring us computer programmer Caleb, his
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billionaire and tech genius boss Nathan, and their meeting when
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Caleb is flown in the Nathan's underground layer, having won an
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employee prize. So how's the opening for you
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guys, Wesley? I mean, this is how it's done,
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isn't it? This is exposition, just on a
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pinpoint level. It's absolutely fucking
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fantastic. I've counted it.
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It's approximately 42 seconds. And you know you.
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Know what the film's about and you're in.
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It's just brilliantly done. I love that locked off short
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where it just seems like it's a webcam and you've got all the
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distorted sides of it and everyone's just cheering.
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He's won this thing. You don't know what he's won,
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but you know it's a big deal. Then it turns out the Jurassic
8:40
Park, which is fantastic, kind of sets that scene where, like
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this guy's got money and just that line from the pilots, the
8:47
only line he has was like, we've been flying over his estate for
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the last two hours. I mean, you just go, wow, this
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guy's something. It really does set it up.
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I think it's absolutely fantastic.
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The way he just drops him off. Nobody kind of knows where he's
9:00
going to shroud it in this mystery.
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He's got to follow the river to it.
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He gets there and then it's just that really great moment where
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he's got all this tech and it doesn't even warn him that he's
9:09
going to get his photograph taken and that that moment's
9:11
just excellent when he's just, yeah, bang.
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And that pictures just so unflattering.
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I think that's fucking. But again, it's all part of it
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and you just along for the ride with Caleb and you are in and
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you are kind of enamored and you kind of in all of everything
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that's going on already. So yeah, I mean just a great,
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great omen to a film. And I wish more films would do
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this and learn from this because that's just how you do it.
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Yeah, I think it's great. I think the first scene of the
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film where we're going to see Caleb win the competition is an
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interesting way to start. There's no words at all.
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It's all very visual, but get like glimpses and monitors and
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text messages kind of foreshadows a subject matter,
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using technology to tell the first few bits of a story.
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That then revolves around technology and the fact that we
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find out later that Caleb didn't win a competition.
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He was handpicked by Nathan basically because of his porno
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history. The horny little devil.
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Yeah, yeah, that's kind of set up here as well.
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Some of the shots you mentioned, Westie, are from his phone's
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camera and we see the patterns of some like what looks like
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face recognition software on him and his colleagues.
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And we'll find out later that Nathan turned on the cameras and
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everybody's phones. So in reference to that, I
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assume. And then in the helicopter,
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we'll get some beautiful visuals there, an obvious contrast
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between how Caleb's going from this stunning nature into a
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place of all man made genius and when he says we've been flying
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over as a state for two hours, How big is a state?
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Absolutely insane. But yeah, no huge amount happens
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in terms of the narrative, Yeah. But I think it is like you say,
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with your really great way to start everything off.
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Yeah, Yeah. I love everything that follows,
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is that first introduction to Nathan, because Caleb is such a
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fanboy. It's like just if I torn it down
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a little bit, mate, don't be like played a little bit.
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Kill Rodney, you know what I mean?
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I'm. Surprised.
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Not wearing a Blue Book T-shirt. Exactly.
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And I think as well, it's really interesting because Nathan isn't
10:55
what you expect. You expect an either some like
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Uber geek or some like Bond villain on this massive estate.
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But he's not. He's, he's got like more of a
11:02
blue collar feel to him. He's all like, dude.
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Bro, bro, you know doing this kickboxing?
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That's not what you expect, but I think already there's so many
11:12
red flags here for Caleb that he ignores.
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He's out in the middle of the nowhere, just the two of them,
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this incredibly convoluted contract that he has to sign.
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But like I say, he's just a fanboy and he's so eager to get
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in with Nathan that he ignores everything here.
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Like personally, just shooting people getting drunk for a
11:28
couple of days, That would be fine for me and all surrounded.
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Nathan, he's such a great salesman and it's almost like
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seduction. You know you'll regret this for
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the rest of your life. It's brilliant.
11:37
Fine. And any surroundings for you,
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mate. To be fair, yeah.
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To be fair, if I was Caleb's where he's been flown into this
11:44
two of our size estate and then you see Nathan's part, which is
11:47
ludicrous. When I saw the rumor I was going
11:50
to staying, I'd be good. It's like a Premier Inn tiny
11:53
little telly on the wall. No, it does.
11:56
Yeah, no it does. But the way that Nathan makes
11:59
Caleb sign an NDA but refuses to answer Caleb's questions, I
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would definitely sign that NDA as well.
12:04
Anyone with that beard has definitely got a secret or two
12:06
up the sleeve, I think. Yeah, I think it's great when
12:08
you say the introduction of them is that.
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I just feel it's all an act and that he is this kind of his
12:13
persona comes across, but I feel like he's just shaved his head
12:16
like he's got normally got really unkempt long hair and his
12:18
big beard. He's left the beard in there
12:20
like he's not in that good and Nick is he he's just got a vest
12:22
on and he's just pretending that he's put it up there.
12:25
So to me it's all this kind of ruse and all the technology that
12:28
he's got, the access that he's got to everything and he makes
12:30
me sign the India on paper and he uses post it notes and it's
12:33
just that he doesn't trust the technology.
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I think it's a great set up. Yeah, I think there's a lot of
12:38
things all the way through the film that hit very differently
12:41
on a second watch. Yeah, second and third.
12:42
Yeah. Really.
12:43
Yeah. In the film, Nathan's house is
12:45
in Alaska, but it was filmed at the Juveir Landscape Hotel in
12:48
Norway. The hotel is very proud of the
12:50
fact that it's in the middle of nowhere and the nearest airport
12:53
is 60 miles away. Apparently they don't serve
12:56
lunchtime meals, but encourage their guests to take a bag to
12:58
the breakfast buffet and stock up.
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I'll be doing that anyway of. Course.
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Yeah, I need a little encouragement.
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Yeah, exactly. Is that where Nathan gets the
13:07
summon from? Well, the production designer
13:13
was Mark Digby and he said they filmed the two separate
13:15
buildings but made sure they were both designed by the same
13:18
architects called Jensen Scolding to have some similar
13:20
features which works really well.
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Feels like one place and we get a few more patrons and you might
13:26
see one of these popping up somewhere within all the right
13:28
movies logo on it. In the Lake District.
13:32
Just the same. Yeah, you've been fine.
13:35
Obviously stayed for the last 34 seconds.
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That's it. You don't?
13:39
Yeah. We're here now.
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So that's our two mere leads. Should we meet our female too?
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Oh, absolutely. Let's do it.
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By this point Nathan has revealed his big secret.
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He's built a machine with human like intelligence, called her
13:56
Eva, and brought Caleb along as the human component in a tearing
13:59
test to evaluate the conscious mind of Eva.
14:03
So how are these first sessions with Eva Westie?
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Magic. I mean, when you first see her,
14:08
that that whole sequence, that was it I was in, you know, she's
14:12
in silhouette. It's kind of technology and
14:15
nature mixed together with the tree in the background, the way
14:17
she moves through the frame. And the really interesting thing
14:20
here that our first noticed was that he's in a small box and
14:23
she's in this bigger environment, like almost.
14:25
He's imprisoned. Yeah.
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Yeah. And when he walks in, you see
14:27
this crack, which is an amazing foreshadow for what happens
14:30
later when you see how that happened.
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But you know, something's not quite right.
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But it's my favorite shot in the whole film where she's just
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silhouetted against that, that nature in the background.
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And it's just a beautiful mix of visual effects, of production,
14:42
design, of cinematography, everything just coming together.
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And I think it's amazing how they put all the practicals in
14:48
the room because they didn't have a lot of time to shoot
14:50
this. This was six weeks.
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So you see all the lights that are light in the actual set, and
14:54
they're all part of the set, which I think works really well.
14:57
And the use of reflections here is really interesting.
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But Alex Garland himself said it was almost like Ava's like a
15:02
tiger in the zoo. She's got all this space, but
15:04
she tends just to pace over the same area, like she's got
15:07
somewhere else to be, but she's got nowhere else to go.
15:10
So you get that feeling that she's almost trapped, but he's
15:13
even more trapped in the shooter from law, so gives her the power
15:16
over him. Shoot him from heights where he
15:18
seems small in the frame. It just sets everything up
15:20
beautifully and there's just so much space.
15:22
And I mean Gleason and this, he's just totally enamored.
15:25
He's in all of it. His performance is incredible.
15:28
He's just fucking over almost stuttering over everything.
15:32
So like, you can see him just filling up with excitement.
15:34
I think it's just a wonderful performance, exactly how anyone
15:37
would react to it. I think it's very, very
15:38
realistic and a really excellent introduction to that character
15:42
because it's not over the top, it's just beautifully realized
15:45
and he was an audience or just taken into the whole thing.
15:48
I think it's brilliant. It is.
15:50
I mean, the first time we meet ever.
15:52
We're still really early into the film to be honest.
15:54
I think we could have had a bigger build up because we're
15:56
only like 11 minutes in the first time we meet up.
15:58
But I mean, that's a very minor criticism because as soon as we
16:01
see Eva, I think she's just mesmerizing.
16:03
Yeah, she looks fantastic still now, looks fantastic.
16:07
Incredible work from the effects team.
16:09
We'll talk about those guys later, But that first shot, you
16:11
meant university. When Ava walks into the frame
16:13
and like half silhouette, it's just stunning.
16:15
It's really, really good. They could have kept it like
16:17
that as well. I mean, the directors would just
16:19
kept that mystery and have her in silhouette.
16:21
You don't see her. And then maybe the third session
16:23
just steps into the light. Yeah, yeah.
16:25
But that doesn't happen. It's everything at once, which
16:27
is really brave. And I like the debriefing
16:30
meetings, where Nathan and grills Caleb about whatever
16:33
after his sessions with her, Where Caleb's like, if you've
16:35
created a conscious machine, that's not the history of man,
16:38
that's the history of gods. And Nathan laps it up, you're
16:41
like, yeah, you're right. I'm a God, yeah.
16:42
Yeah, yeah, It's that bit what he's like.
16:45
Yeah, I think you're right. And it's just cuts through and
16:46
he's just not. He's like, I know I am.
16:50
And Caleb and Nathan are talking and Nathan's just wondering
16:52
about with more top on. I mean, it's his house to be
16:54
fair, but you've got to guess dude.
16:56
Brilliant. Yeah, I'm going to talk about
16:59
when the power cut happens because you're so drawn in.
17:02
You're so drawn in at this point because Ava's like line of
17:05
questioning is so unpredictable, you know?
17:07
Do you like Mozart? I like Depeche Mode, which is a
17:10
weird band to come back with. I think I'd already joined more.
17:14
Sorry Depeche Mode in my mind that much.
17:16
That's a real panic band, isn't it?
17:18
I like. I like Depeche Mode.
17:19
What I don't like is how Caleb's implying there they say one of
17:22
the other, yeah, both of them. Yeah, of course you.
17:24
Can. But then that power cut bomb,
17:27
it's that immediate change in tone and her question.
17:31
And again, is he your friend? Is he your good friend?
17:34
And it's that first seed of doubt, I think, in Caleb's mind
17:36
of actually, what am I doing here and cannot trust this guy
17:40
because it's only me and him in the middle of nowhere.
17:43
And because you're in this super advanced complex, the idea that
17:46
it can still suffer power cuts, it puts you on edge.
17:49
Because even here I think there's this element of
17:51
suspicion about the timing of it.
17:53
Like, they just happened to be talking about Nathan when it
17:56
shuts down. And that's when she takes the
17:58
opportunity to tell Nathan isn't his friend.
18:01
And it's so creepy the way she just, like, raises herself up
18:04
out of that seat to look at him. It's like a praying mantis or
18:07
something. It's an incredible look and
18:09
seeing that red light. But yeah, it's that sense of
18:11
paranoia, because I don't know if I trust her, let alone Nathan
18:14
at this point, Yeah. Yeah, again, I'll let the
18:18
debriefing session that follows this.
18:19
This is the one where Nathan shows Caleb the Jackson Pollock
18:23
on his wall and he kind of explains automatic art and how
18:25
that raises a question of which parts of us, or actually us and
18:29
not the result of nature or nurture, both, as Nathan puts
18:32
it, or any parts of us, actually us.
18:34
But then we get that sudden flipping toe when the lights cut
18:36
out and suddenly we're back in a film again.
18:38
Eva basically says Nathan's the wrong and he's not your friend
18:41
and it's like being in a different film.
18:42
It's brilliant, yeah. I don't know when Garland wrote
18:45
the script in Caleb beneath his sessions that was sitting and
18:48
separated by a glass screen, like a prison scene where you
18:51
have characters like talking to each other over the phone.
18:53
But Mark Digby, who you mentioned John, he had the ID of
18:56
a large room which was going to be bisected with the screen, and
18:59
that's whatever could walk around more freely.
19:02
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely for the best of definitely not
19:05
just sitting talking on phones to, which is up for the whole
19:07
film, yeah, but I know the sessions weren't filmed in
19:09
Norway either. There were sets of Ava's like
19:12
sort of cage built at Pinewood Studios in England.
19:14
The backgrounds were all blue screen and the digitally added
19:16
in the background to match the landscape from Norway.
19:19
But it does work miles better. Surely the Ava can move around?
19:22
It'll be too claustrophobic, I think, yeah.
19:24
Oh yeah, definitely. It's like Sands of the Lambs.
19:27
But again, in these sequences, it's the use of reflections.
19:29
It's like at some points, especially in that red light,
19:32
Ava's almost talking to herself. Yeah, and reflected in it.
19:34
And they're like mirror images of each other.
19:37
And I think that's just really clever as well.
19:38
The use of reflection in this film cannot be understated,
19:41
because we say I'm getting the more of it when we're talking
19:43
about when we talk about the DP stuff, but it's just fucking so
19:46
well done. It's brilliant.
19:48
And that is the beginning of Ex Machina.
19:50
Some interesting characters and intriguing premise, and then a
19:53
cut to black or red where we find out all is not as it seems.
19:57
Real End of Act One stuff. Very much, yeah.
20:00
Cut to the Mountains. Act 2, The director.
20:08
The director of Ex Machina was, as we've mentioned, Alex
20:11
Garland, known by this point, is a screenwriter only.
20:14
Ex Machina was Garland's first foray in the direction, his
20:18
debut Matt. So how did all of us all then
20:20
do? Very, very well for a debut.
20:24
And I think it's interesting that Garland has worked with
20:26
Danny Boyle at this point on a couple of films, and both those
20:30
films run out of control a little bit by the end, like 28
20:32
Days Later, literally ran out of money and how they, like Stitch
20:35
and ending together. And I think he you get the sense
20:38
of just total control. It's very tightly written and
20:41
directed. I'd be surprised if there's a
20:43
lot of deleted scenes from this. And there's this sense of
20:47
claustrophobia that Garland rings, you know, no windows in
20:50
Caleb's room. The complex feels like a maze.
20:53
And he keeps that camera very, very still.
20:55
Like any time it moves, it moves slowly.
20:58
The compositions are so precise. Any time someone moves in a
21:01
scene it feels very notable and it does give the film this whole
21:05
sense of theatre. Like this could easily be a
21:07
stage. Play Oh yeah, easy.
21:09
Yeah, and I'd love to see it on the stage.
21:10
I actually think it worked really well.
21:12
So Garland has this complete control over it.
21:15
I think the only kind of downside, though, is how
21:17
cinematic does it feel. Like I mentioned Danny Boyle.
21:20
I don't think Garland has that natural talent that Boyle has
21:23
where he can make anything cinematic.
21:25
You know, a guy stuck under a rock for 90 minutes.
21:28
That's pure cinema with Boyle. Yeah, it is.
21:31
It's probably unfortunate time and but we're going to mention
21:33
this a few times. It is very Black Mirror and I
21:35
think if I hadn't seen this and you said this is a feature
21:39
length Black Mirror episode, I'd be completely convinced by that.
21:42
So it's very very well done, but it does have very kind of strict
21:45
parameters I think. Yeah, I'm a fan of Alex Garland,
21:49
the writer director, which probably isn't a huge surprise.
21:52
Not at all. Very big fan of him as a writer,
21:55
as a director, not quite so much to be honest.
21:58
He's writing here. I'll talk about when we get to
22:00
that section and the direction is perfectly fine.
22:02
It's very competent, highly competent.
22:04
It's mostly engaging to look at. But in a film where there are
22:07
some elements which are to me like at a world class level, the
22:10
direction sometimes feels a little uninspired in comparison.
22:14
Like the sessions we've talked about and we'll talk about are a
22:16
good example. I like the power cut where we
22:18
get the contrasting red lighting like we said, but what feels
22:21
like constant shot, reverse shot when Caleb and Eva are talking
22:25
visually kind of bores me at times, to be honest.
22:27
You mentioned before there Wesley, about the possibility of
22:29
having ever stay in focus and I think it's those kind of visual
22:32
ideas that the film is missing. Yeah, it doesn't have quite
22:35
enough of those as I would like. There's not a huge amount to it
22:38
from that point of view. Really tell you whose version of
22:40
this script I would love to see David Fincher.
22:44
It would have been stylish, sexy.
22:47
It would be, yeah, right up his St.
22:49
The time it does look great is when Caleb and Nathan are in the
22:51
wild talking about shooting down Ava.
22:53
When Caleb quotes Oppenheimer. There's a couple of shots of the
22:56
river and Nathan's house in the background.
22:58
Looks great. All that.
22:59
And obviously Garland directs the actors and the effects in
23:01
the design teams really, really well as their works.
23:04
All brilliant. So I mean, the direction is
23:06
definitely good. I'm not saying otherwise.
23:08
It's just that in a film like this, good is a bit lesser than
23:11
lots of the other work at times. Yeah, I mean it's just it's very
23:14
safe, isn't it? I think it it doesn't show a
23:16
lack of confidence. I think it just shows that he's
23:19
he's very safe in that he's directing his script.
23:22
He's got it written down and he knows what he's doing.
23:25
The concept art, I mean by Jock, who's one of my favorite comic
23:28
book artist. He's done Dread and he's done
23:29
Batman. Yeah, the his concept art of Ava
23:31
is just absolutely incredible. So I like Alex Garland's going
23:34
to see stuff like that and just go right.
23:35
Well, this is in the fucking bag.
23:36
Yeah, I will have to do is a shot reverse shot and everything
23:39
else is going to sing. I've got a great cast.
23:41
I've got, you know, great effects work.
23:42
I've got great production design.
23:44
I've got a great DP. But you're right, Johnny needs
23:47
to bring more to it. It needs to be a little bit more
23:49
interesting. When he moves the camera, it's
23:51
only to push anyone. Yeah, already seen, just to
23:54
build a little bit of tension. He never moves the camera to
23:56
reveal anything. He never uses it in that
23:58
cinematic way. The camera in this is definitely
24:00
not a character at all. It is just there to capture
24:03
what's in front of it. Whereas a really good director,
24:05
I'll use that. I'll stand back away from the
24:07
camera and use that as a character and use that to kind
24:09
of push the audience into things that they want them to see or
24:12
what they don't want them to see.
24:13
I think everything is just like you're looking at the page and
24:16
you might as well just be reading it as you're watching
24:18
the film. And I think that, you know,
24:20
that's not to his detriment. That's pretty much exactly what
24:22
I would have done if a studio caught me and says, right,
24:24
you're making this film. This is your script.
24:26
Fucking love the script. You've got Oscar Isaac, Domino
24:28
Gleeson. Yeah, OK.
24:29
Right. I'll just direct what I've got
24:31
here. Then why not, you know, why take
24:33
any chances? He didn't have to.
24:35
But I would have loved it if he did.
24:36
I would have loved it. And I think if he just had more
24:38
time, he had six weeks to shoot this.
24:40
And let's not take that away from.
24:41
Yeah, I think if he had a little bit more time, if he doubled the
24:45
shoot, I think he might have been able to say to Oscar, is it
24:47
right? What do you think?
24:49
Where can we go over this? Add a bit more depth to this
24:51
because it is missing depth. And like Matt says, I think it
24:54
is very it's it's more like a feature length TV episode of
24:56
something than it is while I'm going to go to IMAX to see this.
24:59
Yeah. Yeah, there were timescales or
25:01
you're right to be fair to him. Yeah, I think that might be it,
25:03
to be fair. I mean, there's no time to
25:05
explore any depth with that. Well, Garland had been thinking
25:08
about the future of AI since he was about 11.
25:10
Like, really early. And that's because his parents
25:13
had bought him a computer when he learned some programming.
25:15
So was John. I have I.
25:20
Know. Yeah.
25:23
And then when he was older, he had a friend who was in Euro
25:26
Sinus and the two of them would have debates on the possibility
25:29
of AI. And his friend was really
25:30
adamant it could never happen. Yeah, Garland said that his
25:34
scientist powers like argument was the computers could never
25:37
have consciousness as they start from a different place than
25:39
humans. We don't know enough about it
25:41
yet to understand it, but it's impossible, he says, According
25:44
to him. But I mean, it's Alex.
25:45
Garland says he doesn't agree, does he?
25:47
Oh, we had science, but doesn't agree either.
25:50
Of course it doesn't. I mean, now you're talking now,
25:52
even if you want to talk about cinematic film.
25:57
And then when Garland was right and dread, Garland read a book
26:00
about consciousness by Murray Shanahan, and that gave him the
26:02
ID for his next movie, which is Ex Machina.
26:05
Yeah, you read that one, Matt. Twice.
26:09
I thought so. Page Turner.
26:12
Just the graphic novel. Just the pictures, yeah.
26:17
I saw an interview with the Andrew McDonald, the producer.
26:19
He owned DNA Films who'd made the beach 28 years later and
26:23
Sunshine, all written by Garland.
26:25
And he said to Garland, basically write a script that
26:27
someone else would want to direct, and I'll let you direct
26:29
it. And he came back with Ex
26:31
Machina. I mean, have some of that.
26:33
Yeah, exactly. I think that, again, that might
26:35
have been the problem because he's just went right by film
26:37
that. Yeah, exactly.
26:38
OK, let's have to film that then.
26:40
Yeah, it might have been, yeah. Throughout the film, there's a
26:42
recurring color theme of red, blue, and green.
26:45
So we have the red lighting of the power cuts, the setting in
26:48
the green forest. The key pads are blue, and this
26:51
is all a reference to the RJB color model that computers use.
26:54
Yeah, I think Stanley Kuby does a similar thing in 2001, doesn't
26:58
he? He does, Yeah, we're talking
26:59
about that and BMX Bandit. BMX.
27:08
Like Transformers, right? Let's stop this.
27:13
Let's start right. Now, for his work on Ex Machina,
27:17
Alice Garland was nominated at the Saturn Awards.
27:19
The science fiction Academy lost out to Ridley Scott for the
27:22
abortion. Oh, right, right.
27:25
His work here as director, though we like it for the most
27:27
part. Yeah, I mean it does exactly
27:30
what it says on the tin. I've switched.
27:31
The tin was a little bit bigger the cast.
27:39
The main cast of Ex Machina all established names.
27:42
Now, though that probably wasn't the case when the film was
27:45
released, it's far from a huge cast, so we're going to be
27:48
talking about all of our leads. That's Oscar Isaac as evil
27:51
genius figure Nathan Bateman and Alicia Vikanda as artificial
27:55
intelligence Ava. But we're beginning with the
27:58
character who we follow into the story.
27:59
We. Are.
28:01
So Donald Gleason plays Caleb Smith, a computer programmer
28:04
working in Nathan's Blue Book tech company.
28:06
We see him manipulated by Nathan to partake in a Turing test
28:10
before falling for Ava, then being manipulated by Ava as well
28:13
when she uses him to help her escape.
28:16
Sounds like a bit of a SAP wasty.
28:19
Doesn't he? How was Caleb And Don't Listen
28:21
in the role? I mean, I think he's great for
28:24
what he's got to work with. And I know this came off the
28:26
back of Dread, which we'll talk about in a minute, but I think
28:29
he's character and Dread is kind of a setup for this.
28:31
He plays a very similar role in that, you know, he's a computer
28:34
nerd, he's kind of tortured, he's lonely.
28:37
These character and dreads got a lot more depth, even though it's
28:39
dread. Do you know what I mean?
28:41
Like this should have should be really like, I don't really feel
28:44
sorry for the character as much as I should.
28:47
I don't really feel like he's got an arc in which he should
28:50
have. Don't understand why he's being
28:53
picked necessarily. I don't know why this character
28:57
is is so special, and I think Domino Gleason kind of brings
29:00
that baseness to it without sounding like a Dick about it.
29:04
But I think he knew that. Like he says here, there's a rat
29:06
in the maze. I think it's just Caleb who is.
29:08
Yeah, it could be. It could have been anybody.
29:10
He's just a good guy. He's no family.
29:13
He's expendable. He's just a plain normal person
29:16
who's in the coding and his old mid August to help her escape,
29:20
which is actually Eva's are not his.
29:21
So really he's a secondary or a tertiary character and all of
29:24
this and we're following like a tertiary character through the
29:27
whole film. And I think Lisa knows that and
29:29
he's kind of got that on his shoulders and he's quite
29:31
prepared to play that role. And he does it with with
29:35
confidence and I think he does it really well and he's very,
29:37
very watchable and he's very plain and very ordinary.
29:40
And I think that was the whole point because he's very
29:42
relatable. That could be me, that could be
29:44
you, that he acts like we do. He is purely the audience, but
29:48
he's just a fantastic, fantastic actor who's got a really good
29:51
range. And like I'm going to keep
29:53
saying all the way through this podcast, I just don't think
29:55
they're being given enough of a chance to explore the range.
29:59
He's finding out his back story about his parents and he was in
30:02
the car and they died and he didn't and he was just in a
30:05
hospital bed and he learned cordon that you should that
30:08
should be ripping your heart out.
30:09
Yeah. But it doesn't.
30:10
It's just nuanced and just little bits and it doesn't quite
30:14
hit home as hard as it really is really lonely.
30:16
He's got a tiny place. I'm.
30:18
Glad you said place. That's why he's only.
30:25
Yeah, yeah, he's got tiny place and you know, it's just far from
30:28
the farther from the beach. And you know, we're going to
30:30
have these. Like, no, no dialogue, no sound.
30:34
It's all there if you look for it.
30:36
And I think listen brings as much of that as he can to the
30:38
table. There's just not enough on his
30:40
play, unfortunately. Yeah, I do mostly agree with
30:43
what you're saying there, to be honest.
30:44
I think the first time I saw Donald Gleason in like Anything
30:47
was We've mentioned it in Black Mirror.
30:49
He was in an episode called Be Right Back where he played like
30:52
a synthetically intelligent human.
30:53
So kind of right. Full circle, right.
30:55
I think it was about time for me that that Richard.
30:58
Oh yeah, the time travel, yeah. Yeah, it's really good,
31:00
actually. He's great, Yeah.
31:02
And I do think he's a good actor doing all Gleason.
31:03
I mean, I'm not sure if he's as good as his dad, but here?
31:06
Not yet. But he will be.
31:07
Yeah, he's he's amazing. The Revenant.
31:10
He is very good in that. He's good now, yeah.
31:12
And here I think he projects Caleb's traits of being
31:14
vulnerable and like naive and innocent really well, this is
31:17
like classic ordinary man in extraordinary situation kind of
31:21
stuff. Decent delivers that for me.
31:23
And I think he has a pretty tough ask because Caleb, the
31:25
main character and that were with him all the way through the
31:27
story. And with that comes some
31:29
audience expectations. We expect him to dictate the
31:31
story like you normally would, and sometimes he does, but most
31:34
of the time he's being told what to do by Nathan Oliva.
31:37
So Caleb's often very passive, which makes it hard not to be
31:40
boring. And while he's certainly the
31:42
most boring of the three characters, I mean, one's the
31:44
inventor of AI and the other is essentially robot.
31:47
So I think he does all right doing.
31:49
Yeah. Yeah, it's investing, isn't it?
31:52
Because it's one of these performances where you talk
31:54
about it. Everything sounds like a
31:55
backhanded compliment because his performance isn't as strong
31:58
as Isaac's oficanda, but that kind of works for the character.
32:02
Like Caleb is out of his depth from minute one in this and he's
32:06
so easily manipulated. And it is interesting that our
32:09
main character, who we think is the main character anyway, he's
32:12
actually pretty useless throughout and he doesn't have
32:14
an arc and he doesn't have any kind of heroic redemption at the
32:17
end. He's was stuck in there,
32:18
probably going to starve to death and he's made it look like
32:21
a fool, but like it's kind of a backhander compliment.
32:24
Gleason really sells that, so. Yeah, he's fine with that.
32:27
Yeah, he's fine with that. Yeah, he's not great, but he
32:30
doesn't need to be great. But I think in other films where
32:32
he needs to be great, he is. So I'll do like he was an actor.
32:35
It is just what he used to saying.
32:37
He can only push this character so far though.
32:39
Yeah, definitely. Gleason had been and never let
32:42
me go and dread as was spoken about, both written by Alex
32:45
Garland, so they knew each other.
32:47
And he said he got an e-mail from Garland out of the blue
32:49
saying he wanted him to do this new movie he was working on.
32:52
And with the script for Ex Machine, I was attached to the
32:54
e-mail. He read the script in an hour
32:57
and went to Garland's house, who said he wanted Gleason to play
32:59
Caleb, but he would have to audition really hard as it was a
33:02
studio movie. So he helped him through the
33:05
audition, I think, because he kind of really wanted him in
33:07
there. Yeah, kind of sounds like a real
33:09
life Caleb and Nathan. That's a kind of relationship.
33:12
Yeah, I just read the script. He's like, I'm going to be
33:14
Nathan. And then he turns over the
33:16
house. He's like, no, you're Caleb.
33:18
Your place is too tiny to play nation.
33:23
Yeah, and Gleason said it was an easy decision to take the part
33:26
when it was offered to him. He said Alex is one of my
33:28
favourites. I think he has a lot to say.
33:30
Ex Machina was one of those films I'd always wanted to be
33:33
in. I read it and thought I can't
33:35
believe I'm going to be in this. Yeah, slightly more complex than
33:39
about time, I think, to be fair, yes, he said.
33:42
He was drawn in the script as it was psychologically taught and
33:45
not just trying to be like a cool sci-fi film, which I think
33:47
is a pretty fair description. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
33:50
I mean, Never Let Me Go is pretty complicated as well.
33:52
It's got that kind of. That's an excellent film that's
33:54
really flown into the radar. Very good, yeah.
33:57
Ex Machina certainly developed on all Gleason's career
34:00
following this. He was cast in really big films
34:02
like The Force Awakens and The Revenant that we mentioned.
34:05
Ex Machina, I think one of his better performances for us.
34:09
Yeah, I think it's fantastic. I just like Matt said.
34:11
I wish he'd just had more to push him.
34:12
Yeah. The second main human and
34:17
antagonist in the film is bespectacled genius Nathan
34:20
Bateman, played by Oscar Isaac, a tech billionaire who made his
34:24
money with a search engine. Blue book.
34:26
Google, basically. But where Google was created by
34:29
two guys, Nathan did it by himself.
34:33
He sure wasn't. Ask.
34:34
Jeez. Ask Nathan.
34:42
Put responsible for creating artificial intelligence, Nava.
34:45
We see Nathan set the Turing test, manipulate and treat
34:48
others around him less than well through the being murdered by
34:50
his own creation in the climax. He's got a bit of a God complex
34:55
mat, Nathan. I mean, not you.
34:59
Well, we'll see. Comma.
35:04
What do you think of him and Oscar Isaac?
35:07
I love this performance. He's such a tech bro, isn't he?
35:10
He's Elon Musk, not. Even knew who Elon Musk was.
35:14
Yeah, exactly. It's this really interesting
35:17
combination of someone who is this arrogant alpha male but
35:20
also complete nerd at the same time.
35:23
And the thing what Isaac does so well is he constantly keeps you
35:25
on edge as to what he's doing. How much can you trust him?
35:28
And from scene to scene, I never know what to expect.
35:31
Which is great, because he's got a real temper and he's really
35:35
patronizing the times. And you think, is he a genius or
35:38
is he just this drunken asshole and it's clear he's spent far
35:42
too long out in the wilderness with only robots for company and
35:46
not like to go back to that first meeting?
35:48
That's such a clear sign. He's not the kind of person you
35:50
want to be stuck with in this situation, you know, He says,
35:53
oh, he's got the mother of all fucking hangover.
35:55
So how was the party? There's no massive red flag
36:00
there. Clearly something wrong with
36:01
him. Then he can spin it and he can
36:03
be really charming and he can wow Caleb with his talk and what
36:06
he's created. So Isaac, I think he's really
36:09
greatness. He just can't take your eyes off
36:10
him. I agree.
36:12
I think the most unrealistic thing about this film isn't Eva.
36:15
It's the idea that a web developer could ever be as
36:17
charismatic as this guy. I mean.
36:19
Very true. He's not exactly Zuckerberg.
36:23
I'm joking, by the way. I know a lot of web developers.
36:24
It's. Going to say put a rod for your
36:28
own back. But I mean, a drunk, disco
36:32
dancing diva with aspirations of being God should be utterly
36:35
ludicrous. But not by Nathan.
36:37
In fact, I kind of like him, and that's almost entirely down to
36:40
Oscar Isaac who gives him such like charm.
36:43
These impossible not alike to me anyway.
36:46
That said, he is well written to Nathan's complex.
36:48
He can be a genius and turn on the charm, but at times we also
36:51
see him be compassionless, cruel, like ruthless in the
36:54
wrong hand. This guy could have been some,
36:56
like over the top Bond villain cackling and stroking a cat, but
36:59
he's far from it. I think Garland, a writer, is
37:01
very good at lots of things. Writing humour, I'm not sure is
37:05
one of them. But he cuts perfectly here
37:07
because Isaac finds humour in the character and he gets the
37:10
funniest line in the film to me, where Caleb's asking about
37:12
Nathan ripping Ava's drawing. He says you talk the picture and
37:15
Nathan goes, I'm going to tear the fucking dance floor, dude,
37:18
check it out. Unbelievable.
37:23
Great beard, great moves. Oscar Isaac's Most Dynamic
37:26
Performance for Me. Yeah, I think he just dives into
37:30
this, doesn't he? He's the brilliant thing about
37:32
the character is yet on 1st view and it is very much in your
37:35
face. All right.
37:36
Yeah, I get this guy second view when you're kind of like, hold
37:39
on a second, how much is he drinking?
37:41
Is he home over? Yeah.
37:42
What's he talking about? Little bits of the performance
37:45
that kind of a physical from Isaac are absolutely brilliant.
37:48
We've spoke about it when he when Caleb first goes into the
37:51
room and he's he's been on the punch bag and he's sweating, but
37:53
he just lies over his bed. Yeah, as if he's just loading
37:57
over it and sweating on it and then sits over him on the desk.
38:00
Yeah, he's got this real there's a real undertone to what he's
38:04
doing. There's a real intelligence to
38:06
everything he's saying, even when he's saying that you
38:08
haven't seen Ghostbusters. It's a movie.
38:10
I've seen that. I know everything about popular
38:11
culture. I know everything about
38:12
everything. But he just, it seems like he's
38:14
dumbing down the intelligence of the character.
38:17
And then when you see him, when he's actually watching them
38:19
during the sessions, that's when it's Nathan and he's focused and
38:22
he's everything's on the wall and it's posted notes and it's
38:24
it's, you know, it's like we're really smart.
38:27
It's like serial killer smart. And that's kind of the levels
38:30
that he's going to. And I think all of this, the
38:33
amount of times I've watched this, like three times this week
38:35
and I've come to the conclusion that this is all an act.
38:38
Every single thing from Caleb turning up to him being stabbed
38:42
and realizing he's being stabbed and he's like, fuck, you're just
38:45
like, I think up to that point, he's been playing a game and
38:48
we've all been part of it. And he's that intelligent that
38:51
we don't even figure that out until you've watched it a fair
38:53
few times. Because he plays it so on the
38:55
nose and take someone I'd want to hang out with for a week, but
38:58
that would be about it. That'll be enough.
39:00
You're right. Yeah.
39:01
He's definitely bring stuff. Yeah.
39:02
That's not on the page, isn't he?
39:03
Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
39:05
Well, after Oscar Isaac graduated from Drama skill, his
39:07
first audition was for Sunshine Day Danny Boyle film, which Alex
39:11
Garland wrote, and he didn't get that part that he went for, but
39:14
Garland never forgot him. And when he went to America to
39:16
do some auditions for Ex Machina, he got Isaac to test in
39:19
for Nathan. Nice.
39:21
Lovely. Yeah.
39:22
So an interview with Isaac where he said he loved the script for
39:24
Sunshine and got so into it that even after he was rejected, he
39:27
still kept reading the script and considered getting back in
39:30
touch with Danny Boyle to let him know what songs he should
39:32
use on the soundtrack that would have gone down.
39:36
Well, it pissed off. I've got a song for the end
39:39
credits, like give me a shout, you know you're in the film.
39:44
Garland said that Nathan isn't based on any specific real life
39:47
tech billionaires, which is absolutely bollocks.
39:52
And Isaac backed this up when he said who we had looked at when
39:55
he developed the character. He watched videos of the famous
39:57
chess player Bobby Fischer and took up chess for a bit.
40:00
Took up chess for a bit and I just packed it in.
40:04
And the look of Nathan with the glasses and the beard and the
40:06
Bronx accent was inspired by Stanley Kubrick, which I think
40:08
is fantastic. Yeah, Isaac said.
40:11
When I think of a genius, I think of Kubrick.
40:14
We all do. Yeah.
40:15
And he also said Garland sent him videos of Noam Chomsky and
40:18
Daniel Dennis, who are two, like public intellectuals who've both
40:21
taught about consciousness. None of them have as good to be
40:24
as Nathan, though obviously, no. Who knows?
40:26
He had superb. It's outrageous.
40:28
Well, the costume designer on the film was called Sammy
40:31
Sheldon, and she played a part in how Nathan looks because she
40:34
said that Nathan has been away in the mountains, obsessed with
40:36
his robots for so long that basically he doesn't look after
40:39
himself on any kind of vanity level.
40:41
And the reason he's got a Skinhead is because kind of
40:44
Wesley alluded to this is he hasn't got his hair for years.
40:46
So when he has a visitor come in, easiest thing to do is just
40:49
to shave it all off. All right, nice.
40:51
Yeah, forgot the beer though, yeah?
40:54
Keep that on. You're not shaving that off
40:55
either, taking too long. He's only flying over for two
40:58
hours. Yeah, and get rid of the hand
41:02
that time, but the be out of. I love his wardrobe as well, I
41:05
was told. Just muted colours, he said.
41:06
Einstein isn't it? When you're that clever, you
41:08
just kind of give a shit. About working away, just.
41:10
I was having the same wardrobe every day.
41:11
Yeah, that is a nice touch. And Gordon said he also saw
41:14
similarities between Nathan and Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse
41:17
Now, both in like isolated themselves and see themselves as
41:21
like God like figures. Yeah, I would guess Isaac
41:23
probably learned his lines though.
41:25
Only Brando. Absolutely, yeah.
41:27
Not stabled on the He does a lot of that head rub, though.
41:31
He does a lot of that. Kind of like he does lean and
41:34
forward head rub kind of thing. Yeah, great.
41:36
Before signing off on Oscar Isaac, we have our first Patreon
41:39
question of the show. Oh nice.
41:40
So a benefit of signing up as Nati RM Pedron is that we answer
41:44
your questions and as I say, we have the first one.
41:46
Now it's on Oscar Isaac and it comes from Jack Kelly.
41:50
Hello, Jack. Hello, Jack.
41:52
So Jack says over his career, I think Oscar Isaac has been a
41:55
very hot and cold actor. However, I think he's great in
41:58
this movie and suits the atmosphere really well.
42:01
Where does this performance rank alongside the likes of his In
42:03
Drive Inside, Llewyn Davis or others, right?
42:07
What do you think, Westie? Yeah, I mean, say Houghton
42:11
called out. I mean, it just really depends
42:12
on the film, doesn't it? I think he brings everything to
42:14
every film. I think it's poor Dameron.
42:15
I think he's really good. And The Force Awakens, he was
42:17
really a breath of fresh air and that I thought he was good.
42:20
You know, really funny, charismatic, the new Han Solo,
42:24
almost, you know, nearly there. But I think again, there was a
42:27
lot that I just like it. When he goes a little bit
42:29
darker, I think he's performance and drive is great.
42:33
Like Jack said Inside Llewyn Davis is really, really
42:35
brilliant. Brilliant performance.
42:36
He holds that film up beautifully.
42:38
It's excellent and I really liked him in the card counter
42:41
recently by Paul Schrader. I thought it was nice for him to
42:43
have a lead role in that, which is really good.
42:45
Annihilation. He's good in as well, which is
42:47
also Alex Garland, and I really like them in Robin Hood, you
42:50
know, Ridley Scott's Robin. Hood really good.
42:51
Yeah, I thought he was fucking brilliant in that, and that's
42:54
kind of overlooked a bit as well.
42:55
I think he's just really good in everything.
42:57
He's just waiting for his moment where he's going to strike gold,
43:00
I think, which is going to it. I don't think it's going to be
43:02
long because he's there's going to be a film for him where he
43:04
just absolutely blows it out of the water, I think.
43:07
Yeah, I do know what Jack means. There was a period where I
43:09
thought Oscar Isaac was destined for like huge, huge things
43:12
Inside. Lewin Davis was like 20-30, and
43:14
this came 2014, and he was excellent as Prince John and
43:18
Robin Hood. Like you see, Westy, not a great
43:20
film, but he kind of steals the show, I think.
43:22
He does. Yeah, at that point I remember
43:24
thinking he was on his way to being one of, like, the best
43:25
actors in the world. His career hasn't quite hit that
43:28
level though, but I do still like him.
43:31
As for his performances, my favorite is Ex Machina.
43:33
I think he brings a lot to that that isn't necessarily there in
43:36
the script, but his best I'd probably go for Inside Llewyn
43:39
Davis. I mean, leading and carrying a
43:41
Coen brothers film is no easy feat, and he makes it kind of
43:44
look like it is in that. I think he's really good.
43:47
Yeah, he's brilliant. Yeah, I mean much the same as
43:49
you guys. I think he's just always good,
43:50
even if the film isn't. And at his worst, he's good.
43:54
At his best he's incredible. And this one's definitely up
43:57
there. But I would also go with Inside.
43:59
Llewyn Davis is a top choice for me because you watch that and
44:02
you think you see an actual folk singer.
44:04
Thought they just give a few acting lessons too because he's
44:06
such a good singer and he plays guitar so well.
44:09
He's fantastic. And that I'd also mentioned the
44:11
Most Violent Year, which is really, yeah, nice, where he's
44:14
this boss, if you haven't seen it, he's this boss of a fuel
44:17
company and he gets dragged into corruption and gangsters and he
44:20
just brings this very kind of Pacino in the 70s vibe to it.
44:23
Definitely really like that as well.
44:25
Law. I was reading this filmography
44:27
and I saw in 2004 he was in Lenny the Wonder Dog where he
44:31
played detective fart Man, which I've never seen.
44:34
I am absolutely going to check that.
44:35
Out Now that sounds incredible. So I sequel The Journey fart
44:39
pants. Truly.
44:41
Prequel. Prequel.
44:43
So Nathan Bateman is a character well written by Alex Garland and
44:47
well portrayed by Oscar Isaac? We think.
44:49
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely.
44:53
The final piece in the three character puzzle that is Ex
44:56
Machina is surely the most intriguing of the lot.
44:59
That's female robot Ava, played by Swedish actress Alicia
45:02
Vikander, created by Nathan in his underground lab.
45:06
We see Ava grow from an innocent seeming young woman through
45:09
manipulating Caleb and then killing Nathan to make her
45:12
escape in the finale to ask one of Ava's questions.
45:17
Are you attracted to her, Matt? Maybe Will it make the?
45:26
Could have forgiven honest answer.
45:28
Depends what it is. Well, performance, obviously the
45:33
effects helper. I think This Is Us convincing.
45:36
A portrayal of someone who is a robot, as I've ever seen, like
45:40
if I kind of sum up, strips away every element that she has of
45:43
being human, which is obviously the key component of the film.
45:46
And if this performance doesn't work, the film doesn't work,
45:48
full stop, yeah. Absolutely.
45:50
And this performance, to me, it's up there with Rodka Hauer
45:53
in Blade Runner is someone as a robot, and you just completely
45:56
buy it. And there is that undeniable
45:59
creepy undercurrent, Everything she does, the way she moves,
46:02
like I said in the scene with the power cut, the way she rises
46:05
up out of a chair, the way she looks at Caleb, everything has
46:08
this sense of mimicry. Nothing is not realistic about
46:12
Eva. Evan does have this sense of
46:14
she's learned to do that because that's what she's being
46:16
programmed to do. And like Nathan, how much can
46:18
you trust her? Like when she's probing Caleb
46:20
with those questions, are you single?
46:22
What about your family? Again, why is she doing that?
46:25
Is that curiosity? Is that program behaviour?
46:28
What's her end game? I think this is the stand out
46:30
performance in the film for me. Yeah, I mean, you're right.
46:34
So much right on the success of Ava as a character.
46:36
She's at the centre of the story and if we don't accept her as a
46:39
person and is this like stunning creation, the movie will just
46:42
fall apart. That puts loads of pressure on
46:44
both the design and the acting of the character, and I think
46:47
both are delivered. I mean, she looks incredible,
46:51
the blend of real footage and digital effects.
46:53
We'll talk about that more later.
46:55
But for now, Vikanda, she delivers as well.
46:58
I said that Gleason had it tough, but Vikanda even more so.
47:01
She's got to make Ava believable as a robot because that's what
47:04
she is, but also believable to an extent as a human so we can
47:07
relate to her. And so she works as a character.
47:09
She was filming most of her scenes in a body suit in front
47:12
of a blue screen and didn't even know what the end result would
47:14
look like. So she was coming to Ava as
47:16
pretty much a blank canvas. I saw me Where do you pitch it?
47:19
And I think she pitches it perfectly in the way that Ava
47:22
moves and talks by her as both human and not quite human, which
47:26
is surely that kind of sweet spot I think, that Garland was
47:29
aiming for. The only thing I might say I
47:32
think is missing from Ava is maybe a slightly stronger arc.
47:35
I think our perception of Ava changes through the film, but
47:38
I'm not sure she does. Might have been good if her
47:40
personality had came on more to move towards the end, but
47:43
there's always that bit of distance to, I think.
47:45
But that is being harsh because I think it was the most
47:47
interesting AI character possibly in movies.
47:50
I think there's more to her than Hal 9000 and I'd say she's one
47:53
of the very top tier characters in science fiction.
47:56
I mean, she is the film, basically.
47:58
I mean, I totally agree. I'd hadn't seen Vikander in
48:00
anything before. Or not much since, to be honest,
48:04
I saw her in. I'm easy to find that short.
48:07
When The National brought the album out, she was in there and
48:09
she just brings such such beauty and such small nuances to this.
48:16
And we're talking about Oscar Isaac bringing more that was on
48:18
the page. But she definitely does, and she
48:21
absolutely has to. And when it just says, you know,
48:24
Ava reacts to what Caleb's saying, she has to then work on
48:27
what that reaction is. And if it's just sometimes it's
48:30
just the corner of her mouth going up in a small smile and
48:32
then disappears. And the tilt of her head or the
48:34
way she kind of just moves our body and the turning of the head
48:38
before the shoulders, just kind of like a RoboCop thing, but
48:41
very, very subtly done. And all these little bits that
48:44
you put in. And you can tell she's
48:46
absolutely 100% invested in the character, much like Oscar Isaac
48:50
is much like listening. Everyone's invested in what
48:52
they're doing, which is really getting our teeth into this.
48:55
It's really believable. Yeah, it's really engaging.
48:58
It's really watchable. It's heartbreaking at times.
49:01
And you kind of you're rooting for it and you shouldn't really
49:04
be, you know, this evil robot that's going to escape and get
49:07
into and get out, and you're rooting for the humanity of it.
49:10
You're rooting for the consciousness you're rooting
49:13
for. You know, what are we as a
49:15
human? What is it to be alive?
49:16
It's all the whole Blade Runner questions.
49:18
And she reminds me very much of Sean Young when she's getting
49:20
interviewed in the first Blade Runner, and there's that cross
49:22
reference and the finding out whether she's a robot, whether
49:25
she isn't, which is pretty much the same test that's going on
49:27
through all of this. It's just kind of like the
49:29
precursor to that when they've actually been developed.
49:32
And I think she knows that she brings just an absolute joy.
49:36
It's a joy to watch her do this. It really is.
49:38
It's absolutely fantastic performance and just the visual
49:41
effects that add to the performance.
49:43
More people should watch this and go.
49:45
That's how you do visual effects.
49:46
You see how it adds to the performance.
49:47
You see how it adds to the story.
49:49
Do you see how it adds to the narrative and the emotion?
49:51
That's the fucking point. And everybody knew that.
49:53
And they're all working towards the same goal.
49:55
And that goal is Eva. And thank God it really works.
49:59
Yeah, it really does. I know.
50:01
The Garland said that he liked the idea of casting in unknown
50:03
actresses Eva, but he did briefly consider somebody who
50:06
was already pretty well known at the time.
50:08
Do you know who? Right.
50:10
OK. No, no.
50:11
It was Felicity Jones. All right.
50:14
All right. OK.
50:15
I like her and I think she's got a really good look for Eva as
50:18
well, so that would have probably worked.
50:19
Yeah, go say that. Yeah.
50:21
Well, the when outdoor audition and Andrew McDonald has said
50:24
that Alicia Vikanders was incredible, she turned up with a
50:27
hair pulled back. It rubbed a bottle of sunblock
50:29
all over her face, so she was gorsely white and it applied to
50:33
make exotically colored eyeliner.
50:34
And she later said that she was channelling her in a machine.
50:37
Nice. That sounds a bit like Chris,
50:40
Daryl, Hannah, and Blade Runner. Yeah, it does a bit, yeah.
50:43
Well, that Chris Cunningham video that he did for Bjork,
50:46
which is all white, Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
50:49
yeah. Yeah.
50:50
York should be implemented in everything, shouldn't you?
50:52
No, absolutely. Yeah.
50:53
She should have been in there, should be on the soundtrack.
50:56
Vikander said that she'd ask all and how Ava feels inside.
51:00
Does she feel like a woman, or is she portraying a woman in
51:02
order to manipulate? Caleb and Garland told her.
51:05
I'll let you decide, but if I definitely wants to be a woman,
51:09
and Garland gave her a keynote early on that she shouldn't
51:11
play. Eva is sexual, more like a
51:13
newborn door, so the audience wants to care for her, which I
51:17
think totally comes across. Yeah.
51:19
I mean, if she wants to be like a real woman, that's kind of
51:20
like a Pinocchio kind of a thing.
51:22
Yeah. Yeah.
51:23
Nathan is Geppetto. But that's really good though,
51:30
because we're totally fall for Ava's behavior and don't
51:32
question how she is. But by the end, it's all like,
51:35
was that all an act? I'm not sure, yeah.
51:37
Yeah, it's quite funny. You've said that as well and
51:39
like the way Alex Scotland was trying to explore consciousness.
51:42
Because Jiminy Crickets, I always let your conscience be
51:44
your guide. Yeah, that's kind of the whole
51:47
point of it, isn't it really, Whether she's got one or hasn't.
51:49
Yeah, exactly. He's the real guy behind the
51:52
film. Jiminy.
51:53
Yeah, of course, Jiminy. That's why it's in the woods.
51:59
And before she became an actress, 5 Candidates spent
52:01
years training as a classical dancer, and she said her dancing
52:04
experience definitely came useful here because it helped
52:07
make her movements too perfect and she was able to sit
52:09
perfectly still if she needed to, Which, if you watch it
52:12
again, she absolutely does. Doesn't even inch.
52:16
Yeah, she seems to like, glide along the floor when she moves,
52:19
yeah. And at the end, when she runs
52:20
down the corridor towards Nathan, she reminds me of like a
52:22
a gymnast at the Olympics. Like perfect sprinting form.
52:26
Yeah, I thought. Came from a dancing, I assume.
52:28
It's a really disciplined performance, but she seems to
52:30
really enjoy that discipline. Yeah, definitely.
52:34
There was no award recognition for playing Eva, but it
52:36
catapulted Alicia Viacanda's career.
52:38
Two years later she won an Oscar for The Danish Girl and went on
52:42
to be cast in big franchises like The Man from UNCLE and as
52:45
Laura Croft in Tomb Raider. And he has Eva.
52:49
We think Alicia, Vikanda is pretty great.
52:53
Excellent. Absolutely steals it, yeah.
52:57
There's only one of the cast member in the film who has any
52:59
kind of part to play, and that's Nathan's other robotic
53:02
companion, the mute Kyogo, played by Sonoya Mizuno.
53:06
I think she's worth a mention, Matt.
53:09
She definitely is, yes. I mean, obviously her scene that
53:13
comes to mind is the dance scene, because that scene
53:16
shouldn't work, should be the first scene to cut out because
53:18
it's so out of place. But it's amazing.
53:21
It's hilarious. It's creepy at the same time.
53:24
I mean, Isaac has got the absolute moves, no doubt, but
53:27
how many nights has Nathan spent doing this to get them download
53:32
that? That's really creepy that.
53:34
Brilliant scene. Yeah, so an interview with
53:38
Felicia Viacanda where she described Isaac's dance moves as
53:41
fucking awesome. And she's not wrong.
53:44
They are brilliant. Caleb We always step, though,
53:47
Isn't he just stands there like 11?
53:50
He knows what you're going to do.
53:53
Michael Jackson will be over step.
53:56
Yeah, I've got a real real problem with this sequence if
53:58
I'm honest with you. Oh yeah.
54:00
It's just not long enough. It gets too early and I'm good
54:05
every single time. This is just unabashed fucking
54:08
joy to watch. From the moment.
54:11
It's just from that line, just from the moment the music kicks
54:14
in, just the light and the red, the blue, everything.
54:16
Just the expressionless key or gorgeous behind them, going
54:20
through the motions. He's expressionless, but he's
54:22
having a fucking blast. Jesse shirts open and he's just.
54:27
It's all very much Saturday Night Fever.
54:30
It's got a 70s disco dance vibe. Do it.
54:33
It's perfect. The choreography is perfect.
54:35
The song choice is perfect. That is exactly what a nerd
54:38
would want to do. It's like they just perceive
54:40
that to be the sexiest thing they've ever seen or could
54:43
possibly pull off or imagine. I just think it's wonderful.
54:47
It's a wonderful part of the film and it's it's just
54:50
beautiful place right where it should be.
54:52
And it just adds, it spins you out as well as you just think
54:55
that was really good and it pulls you into a false and
54:57
security and you kind of forget what's going on and then you're
54:59
back into it again. So it's it's just, yeah, I mean
55:02
it's beautifully placed, beautifully done.
55:03
I just kind of get enough of it. It should be 2526 minutes.
55:07
Long. It could definitely be longer.
55:08
It definitely could be. It should be longer.
55:10
It's just too short. And Tanoya Mizuno, she's also a
55:14
trained ballet dancer, which I guess is why she got the part.
55:17
I saw the video with her. She's British and really well
55:20
spoken, and seeing her talking and being like normal was quite
55:23
jarring because she's almost like Alien, like in the film,
55:26
yeah. Definitely.
55:27
Awful when Nathan Shouter for splitting the water though,
55:30
yeah? Yeah, yeah, go go.
55:32
Yeah, it's awful. Yeah, and since X Machinist,
55:35
Noya Mizuno has been in everything Alex Garland's done.
55:38
So he's a fan, right? Right.
55:39
Yeah. Nice.
55:40
Yeah. Yeah.
55:41
It's not just us that loves the dancing scene.
55:43
Our patrons do too. And we have our second Patreon
55:46
question on that now. How can you not?
55:48
Exactly. Obviously this is going to get a
55:50
question. So, George Anderson.
55:52
Hello. George would be you?
55:54
Of course it would. Has asked where do Oscar Isaac's
55:57
dance moves rank amongst the other leading men dance moves of
56:00
years past. So great dancing moments in
56:03
movies, Matt. I mean, it depends how seriously
56:07
you want to take this question because obviously you could go
56:09
afraid of Sergey and Kelly, John Rivaldo, but I took it slightly
56:12
less seriously because I don't know exactly what it is that Lee
56:15
Opus out and Wolf of Wall Street I.
56:17
Don't know, it's amazing. It is very nice.
56:20
That's incredible. Classic one that always makes me
56:23
laugh. One I'd love to be able to copy
56:25
perfectly is the little shuffle that Patrick Bateman does in
56:29
American Psycho for Huey Lewis in the news and if you appear on
56:34
Member. I mentioned this film on the
56:36
episode we just done and I wasn't much of the fan of the
56:38
film, but all I'll say. Barry Keoghan in Saltburn, if
56:42
you know, you know. Yeah, there's so many great
56:46
dancing scenes in movies. I didn't really know where to
56:48
start. So what I've done is I've got my
56:51
top five. I'm going to say I've got a
56:54
cross section pie chart. But yeah, I did that beforehand.
56:57
No, I ended up with the top five.
56:58
Well, they're all in posted notes on the wall.
57:01
Yeah, so George, just about leading men.
57:04
But I've just got everything women in combos too.
57:07
Fucking. Let's go So fifth in Jailhouse
57:10
Rock, the title track. Some people tap their feet.
57:13
Some snap their fingers. Some swear back and forth.
57:15
Elvis does them all. Legendary 4th Rosie Perez
57:19
dancing to fight the power by Public Enemy in the opening of
57:22
Doing the Right Thing Do. The right thing.
57:24
Yeah. Classic.
57:24
Rage dancing that I love it. Third, a classic.
57:28
Tom Honks and Robert Louis. Yeah, dancing.
57:30
Piano scene in big about as magical as movie guests, I
57:33
think. Yeah.
57:34
Second, I've got Gene Kelly and Sid Cherise in the dream
57:37
sequence and singing in the rain.
57:39
Has anyone ever been hotter than Sid Cherise in that scene?
57:42
No is the answer to that. Yes, OK.
57:45
And first, it is a leading man one, and it's got to be GT
57:49
Travolta could have gone for a few of his Saturday Night Fever
57:52
Pulp Fiction, but it's Grease for me.
57:54
Specifically Grease Lightning, where it's an ensemble piece but
57:57
Travolta is unbelievable is the lead.
58:01
I still think Greece is the best of a performance and Grease
58:04
Lightning is the best moment from it for me.
58:06
Just running around with cling film.
58:07
Unbelievable. I like the hand drive of Greece.
58:11
It's fucking. That's great.
58:12
It's. Unbelievable.
58:14
Yeah, he's wearing that pink. Shirt.
58:14
It's wonderful. Yeah.
58:15
Great film. Yeah, great.
58:17
It's. A great film and Westy.
58:19
Yeah, Again, I've gone for ones that were, you know, I didn't
58:22
expect the dance in this kind of thing.
58:25
Like much like this one. I think Jim Carrey and the mask
58:28
is wonderful. That's a great moment to Ching
58:32
Chi. Boom, wonderful.
58:34
I think Lebowski and the Gutter Balls dream sequence coming down
58:37
them steps. Yeah, it's fucking brilliant.
58:40
Napoleon Dynamite, when he's dancing with the Miracle
58:42
Brilliant, is absolutely fucking mind blowing.
58:46
There's nothing much better than that.
58:48
But the one I'm going to go for is a film I saw recently.
58:51
People might not have checked it out, so I don't really want to
58:53
spoil it, but there's a sequence where Mads Mikkelson does a
58:57
dance in the film. Another round.
58:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just breathtakingly,
59:02
heartwarmingly amazing. And it's fucking just pure joy
59:07
on the screen. So I'm going to go for that
59:08
sequence. For me, I think it's just one of
59:10
the best things I've seen in recent years.
59:12
It's just fantastic. Yeah, I've not seen that.
59:13
Boy, it sounds awesome. It is.
59:15
I will check it out, yeah. Great.
59:17
Great film. Brilliant film, brilliant film.
59:19
And that's everyone. So not a big cast next, Machina
59:22
and I was gone to said. He always writes the script and
59:25
worries about the cast later, but that doesn't show at all.
59:27
The cast especially, I think Oscar Isaac and Alicia Vikanda
59:30
bring something to the film. Oh yeah, definitely.
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That's betterhelp.com/A TRM. Thanks again to better help for
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sponsoring this episode. The middle.
1:01:00
Into the second active X Machina, and some of the
1:01:03
unknowns start to be revealed the moment Caleb finds out about
1:01:06
Nathan's previous versions of Ava's coming up.
1:01:09
But before that, we're talking about Ava starting to get into
1:01:12
the mind of Caleb. We are.
1:01:14
So after the cliffhanger style ending to act one, obviously
1:01:18
cliffhanger as in a dramatic ending, not sly.
1:01:24
After that info narrative was dumped on a second fast, Nathan
1:01:27
takes Caleb to his laboratory full of AI treats and then Ava
1:01:31
dresses up for Caleb. So Matt, you want to see
1:01:34
something cool? I always want to see something
1:01:37
cool, John. You know me because I am.
1:01:39
I'm going to talk about the lab and there's always it's this
1:01:42
sense that Nathan is just in the right place at the right time to
1:01:46
distract Caleb. Caleb's just starting to get
1:01:48
suspicious about the whole setup.
1:01:50
He's piercing together little parts of the puzzle, what he's
1:01:52
going to do. And then there's Nathan outside
1:01:54
the room. You want to see something cool
1:01:56
Because of course Caleb wants to.
1:01:58
Of course he wants to see where everyone was created.
1:02:00
And because Ava's been so convincing so far, there is this
1:02:04
eeriness to the scene where you reminded she's not flesh and
1:02:07
blood, she's mechanics and circuitry.
1:02:09
She's been deliberately created. And I love that line from Caleb.
1:02:13
I don't know how he did any of this.
1:02:15
Yeah, it's great. It just.
1:02:16
Really, like, brings back what a creation she is, and to link her
1:02:19
creation to the prevalence of social media, which even the day
1:02:22
that only keeps growing and growing.
1:02:24
That's a really smart bit of writing, I think, because it
1:02:26
keeps it relevant and it keeps it fresh.
1:02:29
And as much as Nathan is manipulating Caleb all
1:02:31
throughout the film, I think this is one of the few scenes
1:02:34
where if it gets all that and he's just being Nathan because
1:02:37
he's just shown off what he's done because what he's done is
1:02:40
incredible. Yeah.
1:02:42
Yeah, the scene. The way it starts, like you say,
1:02:44
with Nathan just leaning against the wall outside Caleb's room,
1:02:47
waiting for him. How long has he been there?
1:02:48
Like an hour. You're standing.
1:02:50
Wait, but I love the board. We've seen a different setting,
1:02:54
so it has my interest visually straight away.
1:02:57
And I'm all in for Nathan's explanation on how things work.
1:03:00
Getting able to understand and replicate facial expressions by
1:03:02
turning on all the cameras on everyone's devices, that's
1:03:05
great. Then Garland gets a bit
1:03:07
satirical when Nathan says the manufacturers couldn't accuse me
1:03:10
without admitting they've been doing it themselves, turned to
1:03:12
the Paul Verhoeven for a nanosecond, and then,
1:03:15
thankfully, stops there. No machine guns.
1:03:17
It's almost like, yeah, you want Oscar eyes.
1:03:20
It just like turn the camera slightly and just do a side eye.
1:03:23
Yeah, you see Ava's brain bit I find fascinating like structure
1:03:28
gel as Nathan calls it. One example of many that makes
1:03:31
it clear that Garland's been doing his research, I think and
1:03:33
the kind of molecular like movements we see inside the
1:03:36
brain that's under that digital effect, that still stands up.
1:03:39
One of my favorite scenes. I think it's really, really
1:03:41
good. Yeah, I think the set designs
1:03:43
Immaculate as well, which is a mass, I think was a massive
1:03:45
influence on the Westworld series.
1:03:46
I think that. Yeah, it's almost identical, I
1:03:48
think, isn't it? Yeah, it does look really good.
1:03:50
Yeah, I'm going to go for the bit where, I mean, it's it's
1:03:52
harpering for me, but the bit where Eva dresses up and she
1:03:55
just puts the dress on. Oh, yeah.
1:03:56
And she's got this kind of real innocence.
1:04:00
It's again, as Garland says, don't play it sexually.
1:04:03
I mean, it's as as far from playing it sexually as you can
1:04:06
possibly go. I think she's just, look, he's
1:04:07
looking for companionship. I think that's his weakness in
1:04:10
all of this. And what he wants is a companion
1:04:13
and that's his arc and that's what he's looking for.
1:04:15
And that's what she delivers here.
1:04:16
And I think the really interesting thing here that
1:04:18
people miss is that she's got reference pictures, especially
1:04:21
for her hair, and she's looking at the reference now.
1:04:24
Who's put the references there? Is this on purpose?
1:04:27
And who's put the dress there? And who's, you know, is this
1:04:29
built on something else? It should be given a little bit
1:04:32
of a helping hand from Nathan here for the manipulation
1:04:34
because people just kind of miss that point of, like she hasn't
1:04:37
necessarily drawn that picture and put it up.
1:04:39
I think that's been put there for a reason.
1:04:41
And then when she comes through, it's this very, very, very
1:04:44
attractive girlfriend, companion, partner, innocence,
1:04:50
you know, And then she says this is what we're going to wear on
1:04:52
our date, you know, And it's like just insinuating that, you
1:04:56
know, I like you, do you like me this kind of backwards and
1:04:58
forwards? Are you attracted to me, this
1:05:00
kind of thing? And it's all, again, this
1:05:02
manipulation and testing the ground and seeing how far I can
1:05:05
go with it. I mean, it's just beautifully
1:05:07
realized. Because I think coming out like
1:05:08
that just appeals perfectly to Caleb.
1:05:11
That's exactly what he's looking for.
1:05:12
He's not looking for like Lucy Liu and payback, you know what I
1:05:15
mean? She comes up with like a whip in
1:05:17
leather and starts getting it six.
1:05:18
Now he's not going to be interested, but if he's this
1:05:21
type of thing is perfectly what he's looking for.
1:05:24
And I think, I don't even think that's what Eva wants to be,
1:05:26
because when you see her at the end, it's kind of the opposite
1:05:29
of this. It's like her almost playing the
1:05:31
role to manipulate Caleb. And I think if you watch it from
1:05:34
that point of view, it's a very, very clever scene and it's very,
1:05:37
very well executed. Yeah, it doesn't take you ever
1:05:39
long to start using your feminine Wiles on Caleb, does
1:05:42
it? And Caleb Hook, Line and sinker.
1:05:46
It's the compassion she's using, isn't it?
1:05:48
Yeah, Yeah. Then our sexuality, it's like
1:05:50
real. Yeah, there's safety.
1:05:52
There's a safety in that. Yeah, In that character that
1:05:54
she's playing. There is, yeah.
1:05:55
There's not much sexuality there.
1:05:56
I mean, she dresses like a bit of a granny cardigan and woolly
1:05:59
tights. Caleb's loving it though, and
1:06:01
he's amazing. What's his porn search?
1:06:06
Grammys.net. And yeah, this is definitely a
1:06:11
scene, which it's differently on every watch.
1:06:13
Once we know later on that he ever had it in here to be
1:06:15
manipulative, the whole innocent kind of actually puts on here is
1:06:18
much more apparent. And she's much more interesting
1:06:21
as a character, I think, as a result.
1:06:23
But when she's like sometimes in night, I wonder if you're
1:06:25
watching me on the cameras, and I hope you are.
1:06:27
I mean, come on Caleb, your chump.
1:06:32
And I love that show. The end as well, where Caleb's
1:06:33
watching Ava and kind of half silhouette to she removes the
1:06:36
woolly tights. Really creepy.
1:06:38
But the blend of reality and digital effects is totally
1:06:40
invisible. It's just stunning.
1:06:42
Oh yeah, massively yeah. Yeah, like a key thing for me is
1:06:45
how she says this is what we'll wear on our date.
1:06:48
It's very kind of teenagery, isn't it?
1:06:50
It's not. Yeah, she's not being seductive.
1:06:52
It's like, oh, we're going to date.
1:06:54
Yeah, it's really innocent. It's really innocent and you
1:06:56
know, probably Tyson, the fact he lost his parents when he's a
1:06:58
teenager, yeah. So things are moving on in Caleb
1:07:01
and his relationship, and I worry the Caleb might be getting
1:07:05
taken for a ride. Just a bit, I think.
1:07:08
Strap yourself in, son. Not the kind he wants, either.
1:07:14
From there, it's all lies and videotape.
1:07:16
No. Sex?
1:07:17
Yeah, definitely not. Firstly, Session 5 Eva grills
1:07:23
Caleb in a lie detector test, and then Caleb steals a blind
1:07:26
drunk Nathan's key card and discovers a dark secret.
1:07:29
What happened to the previous Evers?
1:07:31
Yeah. So which part are you talking
1:07:33
about, Wesley? I'll talk about the lie detector
1:07:36
test. This is a very interesting
1:07:37
scene, yeah. If you compare and contrast to
1:07:39
the moment that he met Eva and the way she was shot, they are
1:07:42
just now on exactly the same level, talking to each other
1:07:46
through, you know, it's mirror images of each other, really.
1:07:50
And she is now really getting into the manipulation.
1:07:52
She's trying to find out all of the deepest things in the
1:07:55
darkest things and just almost convincing him that he's a liar.
1:07:59
And kind of on second and third watch of this, when she says
1:08:01
lie, she says that almost like a question mark, just kind of like
1:08:05
lie. Yeah.
1:08:07
And so he goes, well, I don't know.
1:08:09
Is red my favorite color? I thought, you know, well, OK
1:08:12
And then he then just goes, right.
1:08:13
Well, that's more honest. There you go.
1:08:15
And it's just the way that the manipulation happens in the
1:08:17
micro expressions that she talks about and the way she reacts to
1:08:20
those micro expressions. And I think it's really
1:08:22
interesting that we don't see Caleb's expressions, we just see
1:08:25
her reactions to those expressions.
1:08:27
Because I mean how would you possibly do that and wait for us
1:08:30
to look at it and go, there you go, that's a micro expression.
1:08:32
You can't really put that on the screen because it's it's her
1:08:35
reading them. But I think it's down to Vicon
1:08:37
of here and her performance and how she reads that and you see
1:08:40
it clicks and she goes not lie, lie and really pushing them
1:08:44
forward. And it's because I think Nathan
1:08:48
tells lies and she said that he's a liar and now she's
1:08:51
turning Caleb into a liar and turning them into the same
1:08:54
person. She said are you a programmer to
1:08:56
better one of. I think that's the thing I
1:08:58
recorded just like Nathan And he says yes, no when the first
1:09:01
meet. So she's kind of someone open
1:09:03
comparing and contrasting him to Nathan so that when she escapes,
1:09:06
she's got no guilt about leaving him because of what Nathan's
1:09:10
doing. So she's painting him in the
1:09:11
same picture here. So that's exactly what she's
1:09:12
doing, is setting them up for a fall.
1:09:15
And you think that she's benefiting them by saying no,
1:09:17
that's a lie, tell the truth. But what she's actually doing is
1:09:19
making his truth a manipulation of what she wants him to say.
1:09:23
Which again, is a really interesting scene.
1:09:25
It's really well done. It is.
1:09:27
I think of all the Ava session scenes, this might be the best
1:09:29
one. It starts like a fun little
1:09:31
game. What's your favorite color?
1:09:33
What's the earliest memory? And then suddenly, yeah, what
1:09:35
will happen to me if I fail your test?
1:09:37
Caleb goes. It's not up to me.
1:09:39
And if I just says why is it up to anyone?
1:09:41
Massive moment that she's got a survival instinct but also seems
1:09:44
to have weighed up the kind of philosophical side of why is her
1:09:47
life less important than Caleb's?
1:09:49
Yeah, that exchange might be the only dialogue between Caleb and
1:09:53
Ava where we actually see the real Ava, because seconds later
1:09:56
she's back to question 5. Do you want to be with me?
1:09:59
And poor old Caleb just put you in her hands again.
1:10:02
Doesn't know what's going on, Caleb.
1:10:04
Another power cut off for fuck's.
1:10:07
Sake, I'm going for the moment. It always feels like Caleb takes
1:10:11
control of the narrative for the first time, and it's when he
1:10:14
takes Nathan's key card because he's blind drunk.
1:10:16
You think, oh, this is going to change from now on.
1:10:19
And it does lead in one of the most disturbing parts of the
1:10:21
film for me, which is when he sees that video of the previous
1:10:24
creation, the previous robot, freaking out and just smashing
1:10:28
its arms to bits on the door. Like horrific stuff that.
1:10:32
Yeah. Brilliant though.
1:10:33
It's brilliantly done, yeah. And then to follow that when he
1:10:36
goes into the room and Kioko is just lying there naked, but it's
1:10:40
not alluring in the slightest. It's not like sexy at all.
1:10:44
It's one of these scenes where I think Ex Machina has this
1:10:47
element of Frankenstein to it, if things that have been created
1:10:50
that probably shouldn't have been created.
1:10:52
Yeah, I mean, you've got this blue book reference, isn't it?
1:10:54
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And everything's getting out of
1:10:57
control. And you know, I do love that
1:10:59
revelation of all the previous Ava's.
1:11:01
Just just hanging up like very expensive suits.
1:11:03
That's what they are, Nathan. It's really creepy.
1:11:06
It is, yeah. It's one of the most memorable
1:11:08
moments in the film for me. The part where we see all the
1:11:11
old versions of like Ava and that montage where Caleb looking
1:11:14
through the CCTV of the previous prototypes.
1:11:16
I love that excellent, really dark and like, atmospheric and
1:11:19
that short way, Kyoko thought. Peeling her own skin off takes
1:11:23
her like Blade Runner kind of vibes there.
1:11:25
And then the scene where Caleb cuts himself after that to make
1:11:27
sure he's not a machine that's really interesting shows how
1:11:30
he's starting to kind of lose a sense of who he is.
1:11:33
And if not for that scene, I reckon we'd definitely be
1:11:35
getting a Westie theory, seeing Caleb as a robot and Wesley.
1:11:46
So right, this proves that Caleb's a robot because he cuts
1:11:50
the wrong part because he's got a massive scar on his back that
1:11:53
you think is from the accident with his.
1:11:55
Parents, is he right? OK.
1:11:56
I'm full of shit, this. You'll be going there.
1:12:00
I was like, whoa, yeah, baby, he's right.
1:12:02
Yeah, maybe if he cut his arm open and there was an element of
1:12:05
him and Nathan had used him as an early prototype.
1:12:07
Yeah, you're the prototype. We need this last part, which
1:12:10
you've had out in the wild, and you've shown a conscience.
1:12:12
We need to take it out of you and put it into Eva and give
1:12:15
Caleb like more of an arc and you would kind of shit.
1:12:17
And he's fucking necessary because he's been out there all
1:12:19
along. Yeah.
1:12:20
Or he could have sacrificed himself to give her life.
1:12:22
I think that would have been really interesting, yeah.
1:12:24
But for me, this sequence is just absolutely amazing because
1:12:26
of the use of reflections. Kyoko just reflected in that
1:12:29
mirror when he's opening each one of them.
1:12:31
And then he becomes reflected and ensure that he's part of
1:12:34
this and he's part of this nightmare.
1:12:36
He's almost hanging up in there because he's part of the
1:12:38
experiment. So he is almost a robot in
1:12:40
himself with his actions and it works really well.
1:12:43
And to me again like on 3rd or 4th view and you kind of go,
1:12:46
well, is Kyogo put in there in that guy's to try and seduce
1:12:50
him? Is that did it fail?
1:12:52
Was he supposed to go in and just go, all right.
1:12:54
And then you know Nathan goes, right, well, that's a new angle,
1:12:56
right? You stay with me and be part of
1:12:58
this and help us with this because you're intelligent guy.
1:13:00
I need you in here. You're the best in the company.
1:13:02
You know I've actually done research on you and I need your
1:13:05
help to make this better. I can't do it by myself anymore.
1:13:08
Or it could have been the point where Nathan was diagnosed with
1:13:11
some kind of terminal illness if he needed someone to continue
1:13:13
the AI development of it and Caleb didn't want to do it.
1:13:16
And it's all this kind of conflict of interest and all
1:13:19
these conflicts of emotions. But again, that's not put in
1:13:21
there, but it's there's an undertone that you don't know
1:13:23
that you can kind of read into. And I think that's the beautiful
1:13:26
thing about it. But to me, just the way this is
1:13:28
shot, just showing them reflections, just showing that
1:13:30
everyone's part of this thing and they're all in there
1:13:32
together. I think it's just so cleverly
1:13:34
done visually. It definitely is, and that is
1:13:37
the end of Act Two. Lots of interesting stuff going
1:13:39
on. Some existential discourse in
1:13:41
Nathan's lab, and it seems Ava has Caleb eating out the palm of
1:13:44
her hand. I think it may not end well for
1:13:47
Caleb. Probably not.
1:13:49
Well, in my version it probably would have, but you know who's
1:13:52
interested in that. Everyone the.
1:13:57
Crew. Ex Machina may have been Alex
1:14:02
Garland's debut with the director, but his movie career
1:14:05
was almost 20 years old by this point, so we already had a crew
1:14:08
of collaborators to step into Ex Machina.
1:14:11
We're going to be talking about the composers on the film in Ben
1:14:14
Salisbury and Jeff Barrow, as well as some of the people
1:14:17
responsible for the memorable visuals in director of
1:14:20
photography Rob Hardy and effects house Double Negative.
1:14:23
But we're beginning back with the main man himself.
1:14:27
So the screenwriter of Ex Machina was Alice Garland.
1:14:30
Starting as a novelist in the 1990s, Garland found himself
1:14:33
pulled into Hollywood when his first two publications, The
1:14:36
Beach in the Tesseract, were adapted into movies, and then
1:14:39
wrote some movies of his own in 28 Days Later, Sunshine, Never
1:14:42
Let Me Go and Dread Westie teams.
1:14:46
Every podcast we do, you seem to manage to slip a reference to
1:14:48
Dread in there, so there you go. What do you think of our
1:14:52
Scotland's writing on X Machina? Or Dread, if you prefer.
1:14:55
Yeah, Dread's fantastic, isn't it?
1:14:57
No. I mean, yeah, he's an incredible
1:15:01
writer, an incredible imagination.
1:15:03
And just I'll watch anything that he's written.
1:15:05
And I do like you when he passes these stuff off.
1:15:08
And I just always think in the back of my mind, what if someone
1:15:11
else had directed this? What if someone else had got a
1:15:13
hold of this? You know, because it's all
1:15:14
there. This script is, that's, it's the
1:15:17
blueprint of this film. It is on the page.
1:15:19
You can see it's on the page. I don't think there's much room
1:15:22
for any odd Lib. Maybe a couple of bits of
1:15:23
dialogue. I mean, I've read the screenplay
1:15:25
of this and even writes the cuts in, he writes.
1:15:28
The camera moves in. Really right cut.
1:15:30
To camera cut to Eva, cut to Caleb, like everything is in his
1:15:34
head. It's almost like a it's like a
1:15:36
storyboard just just written down.
1:15:38
That's where it shines and that's where he knows his
1:15:40
strength is. And I think he's coming to this
1:15:43
as a screenwriter and writing this idea by the producer, just
1:15:46
going to see and you know, if you want to direct something, go
1:15:48
away and write it. And then coming back with this.
1:15:51
There's nothing I can say about about the screenplay.
1:15:53
I think the screenplay is absolutely fantastic.
1:15:55
I just wish this was just fleshed out a little bit more.
1:15:58
He taken a little bit more time on it.
1:15:59
He hadn't rushed into it as quickly as he did.
1:16:01
He was just desperate to direct something.
1:16:03
A few more twists and turns and it would have been truly, truly
1:16:06
exceptional. But the screenplay for what it
1:16:08
is is pretty flawless. Yeah, I think it's as a writer
1:16:12
where Alice Garland really excels.
1:16:15
His career shows that novelist turned successful screenwriter.
1:16:18
The writing, he has testament to that as well.
1:16:20
Ex Machina does all the screen writing basics well from
1:16:23
motivations, engaging narrative. But what makes it unique is the
1:16:26
exploration of artificial intelligence, or rather I think
1:16:29
how he explores it. I mean, this isn't the classic
1:16:32
Rise of the Machines cliche. Eva isn't Skynet, and as much as
1:16:37
we might have loved an Arnold cameo, it wouldn't have made
1:16:39
that much sense if he had turned up Eva.
1:16:42
Get to the chopper so we'll be the better that.
1:16:50
Would have been amazing. Just coming in at the end is
1:16:52
like the two 100 or something? But I do think this is a pretty
1:16:56
fresh take on the artificial person created by a human kind
1:16:59
of trope on the big screen anyway.
1:17:01
Eve has more psychologically complex than how 9000.
1:17:04
I think she's more nuanced emotionally than Roy Batty, and
1:17:07
Gordon poses the same kind of questions.
1:17:09
The 2001 and Blade when I do, Is it possible for a machine to be
1:17:13
human or kind of have a soul? And like those films, he doesn't
1:17:17
really answer it, but I think he also asked another question.
1:17:20
If we ever do create sentient machines, what does that mean
1:17:23
ethically? Do we have a responsibility to
1:17:25
treat them well? I mean, clearly Nathan thinks
1:17:27
that we don't hate, which, yeah, that he creates like shit, as
1:17:30
some people will probably feel entitled to in real life.
1:17:32
Whereas Caleb behaves towards Ava no differently than he would
1:17:35
a human woman, really, like some people would do in real life.
1:17:38
But then, because he's laid the groundwork with the storytelling
1:17:40
kind of fundamentals, Garland Commander was points land really
1:17:43
effectively. The part where you've asked
1:17:45
Caleb what'll happened to her is huge.
1:17:47
It's probably the biggest line in the film for me.
1:17:49
I mean, that's more Isaac Asimov than James Cameron, and Garland
1:17:52
commits to it. He treats his audience as
1:17:53
intelligent, he doesn't dumb it down ever.
1:17:56
Which, whether you like this film or not, surely everyone
1:17:58
thinks is a good thing. Yeah.
1:18:00
Oh yeah. I mean, absolutely.
1:18:02
Yeah. I think what this film does, and
1:18:03
really good science fiction films do is make them question
1:18:06
your own conscience and your own humanity and makes you want to
1:18:09
be a better person and makes you thankful for what you've got and
1:18:11
what you take for granted. I think that's what he's going
1:18:13
for. Definitely it is, yeah.
1:18:15
Yeah, I think the writing is where the film really sings for
1:18:17
me, because it's such a great question that Nathan is asking
1:18:20
off Caleb about if it just a fascinating concept in itself.
1:18:24
But what works for me is that everything spins off from that
1:18:27
and the question lends itself to different tones.
1:18:30
There is that intellectual component here, but this isn't
1:18:33
an intellectual like chain stroking debate of a film.
1:18:37
It becomes a thriller. I mentioned Frankenstein.
1:18:40
I think there are very overt horror elements in the writing
1:18:42
as well. So it has this lovely balance
1:18:45
between asking philosophical and technical questions.
1:18:48
Like I love that bit when Caleb mentions does a chess computer
1:18:52
understand that it's playing chess?
1:18:54
Yeah, that's a really interesting question.
1:18:56
But then Nathan will bring it all down to basics.
1:18:59
How do you feel about Ava? Nothing analytical.
1:19:01
And I love that balance. And then as well as that, it's
1:19:04
this wonderful power play between the three characters
1:19:06
where the balance of power is just constantly shifting between
1:19:09
them all Nathan's in charge, but then Ava knows what's really
1:19:13
going on and now Caleb is trying to take charge, but Nathan's
1:19:16
been expecting that all along. But then Ava has been out
1:19:19
thinking the pair of them all along and that's all in the
1:19:22
right. And I think it's a really smart,
1:19:24
really well developed piece of work.
1:19:26
For sure are it is. Alex Garland said the film is
1:19:29
set 10 minutes from now. If Google or Apple announced
1:19:32
tomorrow that they had made Eva, we would all be surprised.
1:19:36
But we wouldn't be that surprised, which I think is
1:19:38
very, very true. And the name of the film comes
1:19:40
from the Latin phrase juice Ex Machina, which means God in the
1:19:44
machine and comes from ancient Greek tragedies.
1:19:47
Yeah, it was like an actor or some kind of proper
1:19:49
representing. God would be lowered onto the
1:19:51
stage and then everything would become a happy ending.
1:19:53
To call something at the use Ex Machina ending usually is a
1:19:55
criticism, but not here. And the three main characters,
1:19:59
all of the names of laidable biblical characters.
1:20:02
Ava is a form of Eve, the first woman in the book of Genesis.
1:20:05
Nathan was a prophet in the Book of Kings and Caleb was a spy
1:20:08
sent by Moses to report on the Promised Land.
1:20:11
Yeah, I'm the singer of the Kings Of Leon.
1:20:14
No, they are. And Nathan's the drummer in The
1:20:16
Kings Of Leon. So that's true.
1:20:18
Yeah. Also, the name of Ava is
1:20:21
apparently a nod to Ada Lovelace, who worked with
1:20:23
Charles Babbage on his machine. They're like developed into the
1:20:25
computer. Great name.
1:20:27
Not Ada Lovelace. Like a Bond girl.
1:20:29
Yeah, yeah. I think it's good that it's
1:20:32
spelt the same forwards as backwards as well.
1:20:33
It's got that kind of robotic vibe to it.
1:20:35
Yeah, and then in the montage sequence we talked about, we
1:20:39
find out the AI version Nathan made before Eva.
1:20:42
She was called Lily, and in Jewish folklore, God created a
1:20:45
woman before Eve. But how to replace her when she
1:20:47
refused to become subservient to Adam and that woman was called
1:20:50
Lilith? And also the name of Fraser
1:20:53
Crane's wife Lilith. Oh yeah.
1:20:55
Yeah, Lilith. Yeah, yeah.
1:20:56
Version of her was called Maris apparently Not really, but I
1:21:02
think there was scenes with Lily away.
1:21:03
The film makes one of its most interesting points.
1:21:05
When we see Lily, she's furious about being in a cage.
1:21:08
Because of that Nathan goes kind of oh she's defective and shuts
1:21:11
her down to improve her. But lots of humans would react
1:21:14
that way to being caged up. And one thing that the word
1:21:16
normal. So Ava has to be like more
1:21:18
normal than a human to be considered normal, which is
1:21:21
probably why she has such a reserved manner.
1:21:22
Maybe she's learned to be that way, to survive.
1:21:25
Yeah, there's a recurring theme in the film around the atomic
1:21:28
bomb to Caleb quotes Robert J Oppenheimer, who we're all aware
1:21:32
of now inventor of the atomic bomb.
1:21:34
When he says I am become death, destroyer of worlds.
1:21:37
And when Nathan is drunk, he starts reciting from the Gita, A
1:21:40
Hindu scripture. The same words Oppenheimer
1:21:42
apparently said before one of his bomb tests.
1:21:45
Yeah, and when Caleb first gets to Nathan's place, we'll see him
1:21:47
getting ready listening to a Noel Agye by Orchestral
1:21:50
Manoeuvres in the dark. That's right.
1:21:52
Yeah, that's. Right.
1:21:52
And Noel Agye was the name of the plane they dropped the bomb
1:21:54
on Hiroshima. And Golan, I guess is making a
1:21:57
point here about the invention of AI possibly leading to the
1:22:00
extinction of humankind. Yeah, but also great track that.
1:22:06
What a track. You should have danced to that.
1:22:08
Yeah, that would have been amazing.
1:22:10
That would. Have been great.
1:22:11
Should. Have said that on the Peshmud?
1:22:14
Yeah. There's lots of other references
1:22:15
to the name of Nathan Search Engine Company.
1:22:18
That's Blue Book, and that's a reference to Ludwig
1:22:20
Wittgenstein, who was an Austrian philosopher of
1:22:23
mathematics. And notes for some of his
1:22:26
lectures in the 1930s were released and called The Blue
1:22:28
Book. Yeah, when I first saw the film
1:22:31
I assumed like a search engine called Blue Book.
1:22:34
So he's referencing Google and Facebook then.
1:22:36
But no, they they're referencing something else.
1:22:39
Yeah, yeah. And the thought experiments,
1:22:41
like I mentioned, they are real. So Mary, in the black and white
1:22:44
room that Nathan mentions to Caleb, that was by a philosopher
1:22:47
called Frank Jackson. In the Chinese room was by John
1:22:50
Searle. Yeah, the John Sale ones, where
1:22:53
he says a machine could never have a consciousness, they could
1:22:56
only ever simulate 1A bit. Like what we're saying about
1:22:58
does a chess compete? I know what's playing chess,
1:23:00
yeah. But a lot of scientists, I
1:23:02
think, and Alex Garland clearly think that he's wrong.
1:23:05
Yeah. And there's a painting of
1:23:06
Margaret Stonborough Wittgenstein by Gustav Klimt in
1:23:10
Nathan's room. And she was the sister of Ludwig
1:23:13
Wittgenstein, who we've already mentioned.
1:23:15
And when Nathan's talking about automatic art, the painting is
1:23:18
Jackson Pollock's number five. Yeah.
1:23:21
Also mentioning a Stone Roses song, Jackson Pollock #5.
1:23:24
Yep. Oh well, there we'll go.
1:23:26
The highest level of intellect. Yeah, going down by The Stone
1:23:31
Roses and then X Machina. Yeah, there's a waterfall in the
1:23:36
film as well. Fuck, there was a scene that
1:23:41
didn't make the cut where Nathan says to Caleb that he doesn't
1:23:44
know if his number 5 is actually real, Like a real Pollock.
1:23:48
He said he bought the original by Pollock, made a replica and
1:23:51
then burnt one of them at random, which is just a madness.
1:23:54
I'm glad that got good. Yeah, I know.
1:23:57
I was here, You can warn us. Destroy that Wiley Coyote film.
1:23:59
Never mind the Jackson Pollock for his screenplay Forex
1:24:03
Machina. Alex Garland was nominated for
1:24:05
an Oscar Lost out to know who. Or the film, at least.
1:24:10
Django and chant some similar time.
1:24:13
Similar time, but I think it was a few years before it was Josh
1:24:16
Singer and Tom McCarthy for Spotlight.
1:24:19
All right. All right.
1:24:20
Yeah. That's fucking great script.
1:24:21
Yeah, it is. The Academy has never been a
1:24:23
number of science fiction though, and for us some great
1:24:26
writing here from Alex Scotland. Yeah, I think it says a lot more
1:24:29
than just a science fiction film.
1:24:31
Yeah, definitely. From the writing, we're moving
1:24:35
to the music and the composers on Ex Machina were writing Geo,
1:24:38
Jeff Barrow and Ben Salisbury. Barrow was a founding member of
1:24:42
British trip hop outfit Porter Said, and later formed the duo
1:24:45
The Salisbury. This is their first feature
1:24:47
credit. Nice.
1:24:49
How'd they do, Matt? I think they do well.
1:24:51
And I think this is one of those soundtracks where I think it's
1:24:54
something that's underneath the film.
1:24:56
It's not laid on top of it, you know what I mean?
1:24:58
Like, for the most part it's like this ambience almost home
1:25:02
that's going on in the background.
1:25:03
And so it's not like filled full of themes for the characters.
1:25:07
It's not filled full of dramatic moments.
1:25:09
So in that sense, it doesn't stick in the mind too much.
1:25:12
And I'll think for the genre, it probably feels par for the
1:25:15
course. I don't feel like they've tried
1:25:17
to push the boundaries of what you would normally get here,
1:25:19
which is insane. It's bad.
1:25:21
It's, I'm just saying it's it's effective.
1:25:23
And when it ramps up from that home into something else, like
1:25:25
when Ava escapes or when Caleb has that paranoid freak out and
1:25:29
it becomes this big kind of thrashy bit, it's great.
1:25:32
And you know, not everything can be what Van Gallas did for Blade
1:25:34
Runner, So it absolutely gets the job done.
1:25:37
I just don't really think it does much more than that.
1:25:41
Yeah, I know Garland was familiar with Jeff Barrow and
1:25:43
Ben Salisbury. He'd worked with them before,
1:25:45
which is why I brought them on to Ex Machina.
1:25:47
And I think it was a good choice because I think what they're
1:25:50
bringing away is really good. I mean, it's all electronic,
1:25:52
obviously to reflect the digital kind of subject matter, very
1:25:55
minimalist, which reflects the low key setting of the Turing
1:25:58
Test. And I think it's a pretty
1:25:59
integral part of the tone and the feel that the film has.
1:26:03
When you listen to a soundtrack album, you can almost always
1:26:05
tell the soundtrack because it has a huge track list and is
1:26:08
littered with like musical cues here and there.
1:26:10
But that's not the case with this one.
1:26:11
The soundtrack here plays like an electronic instrumental
1:26:13
album, and The Chewing Test and Eva Are the Sand out pieces for
1:26:17
me are probably the most recognizable.
1:26:19
But the whole thing for a first kind of fory into film for the
1:26:22
two of them is brilliant work, I think from Barrow and Salisbury,
1:26:25
and they've composed the music for everything Garland's done
1:26:28
since. So he's clearly a big fan.
1:26:29
Nice. And Wesley, I believe you used
1:26:31
to be in a band named after a Porter said so.
1:26:34
I did, yeah. It's called Glory Box.
1:26:35
Yeah, I remember. Yeah, that was big fan, big fan
1:26:39
of Dummy. It's great, great record.
1:26:40
Oh yeah. But I can see why their
1:26:43
influence would be on this film specifically and why they would
1:26:46
be up for doing it. I think it's it's almost a step
1:26:48
in the right direction, a very easy step especially for Barrow
1:26:51
to take going for the electronic and mixed with very organic
1:26:56
sounds. You know there's a lots of
1:26:57
strings in there which make it feel like nature against
1:26:59
technology. And then I think they use a lot
1:27:01
of sense and a lot of pulses and a lot of technology to add to
1:27:04
that. And it it does it, it bounces
1:27:06
where it needs to. I mean the scene that we're
1:27:08
talking about with Lily when she's, you know going six out on
1:27:11
the security footage and that RE is boom and it's brown.
1:27:15
It's just hellish to listen to and it just builds and ramps up
1:27:19
and builds and builds and builds, but it's again, quite
1:27:22
whimsical when it wants to be. I mean, the final sequence is
1:27:24
all just quite like bell like, and it's all very much like wind
1:27:28
chimes and it's all very much like nature.
1:27:30
And I think they mix the two together really well.
1:27:32
There's no theme. There's nothing that's memorable
1:27:35
where you go, oh, that's from Ex Machina, But I think that's the
1:27:37
whole point. I think we're getting more and
1:27:39
more. The films that we've talked
1:27:40
about recently have got that vibe to them, where the
1:27:43
soundtrack is more of a character, it's more of an
1:27:46
emotion. There's a lot of films now that
1:27:48
don't have themes that don't have something that's
1:27:50
recognisable and really powerful at the start.
1:27:52
Where the credits roll, I don't think you can separate them as
1:27:54
much, and this is a really good example of where it works
1:27:56
really, really well. Yeah, so the first time Barrow
1:28:00
and Salisbury worked with Garland was on Dread, which were
1:28:02
mentioned a few times, and Garland and being put in touch
1:28:05
with Jeff Bow as he was a big Judge Dredd fan.
1:28:07
And he brought in Ben Salisbury too.
1:28:09
So they wrote all of the music for Dread.
1:28:11
But then the studio stepped in and they said several things
1:28:14
about the film had to change, and that included the music.
1:28:16
So Barrow and Salisbury left the project and were replaced by
1:28:19
Paul Leonard. Morgan Garland was still a fan
1:28:22
of what they did, though, and told him that be in his next
1:28:24
film, and he stayed true to his word.
1:28:26
Nice. Yeah.
1:28:28
Barrow and Salisbury retained the rights to their dread score
1:28:30
and the released It is an album called Druck Music inspired by
1:28:34
Mega City One. Really good.
1:28:36
I think you like it, Wesley. It is class.
1:28:38
Yeah, I've heard it. All right.
1:28:40
Maybe name your next band after it.
1:28:43
I'm long past that now. I'll go to bed at 8:00.
1:28:46
I'm not going to be gigging anytime soon.
1:28:50
The rock'n'roll days are done. All done.
1:28:52
Kind of stand up longer than 20 minutes.
1:28:55
Apparently there is a similarity between the ex Mack and a piece
1:28:57
Eva and the theme from close Encounters, Barrow said.
1:29:01
If there is a similarity, it wasn't done intentionally, but
1:29:04
some people online are skeptical so.
1:29:07
Of course they are. That's the best thing to say,
1:29:08
isn't it? Well, that wasn't intentional.
1:29:10
Yeah, I mean close Encounters, Aliens and Eva's a robot, so it
1:29:14
is a bit similar, to be fair, but nothing too major, I don't
1:29:17
think. No.
1:29:18
For their work on Ex Machina, Jeff Barrow and Ben Salisbury
1:29:21
didn't feature at the Oscars. They did though win an Ivan
1:29:24
Novello Award for Best Film Score.
1:29:27
And since X Machina, they've scored every Alex Garland
1:29:29
project and several of them movies and TV series, including,
1:29:32
again, Black Mirror. Nice.
1:29:35
Yeah, it all started on Ex Machina, though, and we think
1:29:37
their work here is worthy of launching a career.
1:29:40
Definitely. Oh yeah, absolutely.
1:29:41
Very competent. A lot of impressive aspects
1:29:46
about Ex Machina then, and we're not done yet, anything, but as
1:29:50
we taught the visuals on display in terms of cinematography and
1:29:53
effects, yeah, the director of photography was Rob Hardy, DP
1:29:57
ING his 13th feature, and the effects studio on the film was
1:30:00
double negative. So which you want to talk about,
1:30:03
Wesley? Well, I mean, I think I'm going
1:30:05
to talk about Rob Hardy, if that's all right, obviously,
1:30:09
yeah. I mean, it's just some really,
1:30:11
really great work here, fantastically shot in the way
1:30:14
that Garland wanted it to be shot and that it's just so
1:30:17
secure. And you what, you know, you're
1:30:19
watching somebody who's very, very competent and very
1:30:21
confident. And I think there's just a
1:30:23
really nice mix of lighten and character and it's not overdone.
1:30:29
It's not overly flashy. There's not these elements to it
1:30:32
where you go, oh, there's the cinematography, it's, it's
1:30:36
ignorable. It's the same as the score.
1:30:37
It all just mixes together. And I think it's a lot to do
1:30:39
with the production design. Like I said, I mean, they had
1:30:41
six weeks to shoot this, so they made all of the lights practical
1:30:44
in the set. You can see everything.
1:30:46
They're all on dimmers, so as they're moving through, they can
1:30:48
make it lighter or darker or whatever.
1:30:50
And he's got full control over that.
1:30:51
So that just gives them time and they can do, you know, multiple
1:30:54
setups a day. I think they're doing like 25
1:30:55
setups a day and that's kind of like blasting through it and all
1:30:59
of the shots except two of them. This is going to be really
1:31:01
boring, but I'm just getting it out my system.
1:31:02
So all the shots except two of them are shot at 2.8, which is
1:31:05
wide open on the lens, which blurs the background basically,
1:31:08
which just shows the detail and it gives the audience something
1:31:11
to target on and something to look at.
1:31:13
And that's hard to do, to shoot it that wide open.
1:31:15
But he did choose the Sony F-65, which is shot.
1:31:18
This almost a digital camera now at the time was super clean.
1:31:21
So what he did was he got Cook lenses, he got the Cook Excel
1:31:24
Express. So they were 1930s lenses that
1:31:28
were rehoused in the 80s to be made anamorphic because we're
1:31:31
1930s spherical lenses. So that gives it like a filmic
1:31:33
look. It gives it a softer look.
1:31:35
It kind of blows the edges a little bit and makes things look
1:31:38
a little bit weird. So stuff's not exactly super
1:31:40
sharp. So that's kind of what he
1:31:42
brought to it in that, you know, they are shooting it digitally.
1:31:44
So for me, even the cinematography, it's got like a
1:31:47
technology behind it, but in front of it, it's more of a
1:31:49
natural look through the lens. So you've got like, you know,
1:31:53
the nature in front of the technology.
1:31:54
So it's all working together and it's all hand in hand.
1:31:57
So it just shows that everyone's on the same page and I think
1:31:59
that just that works through and through.
1:32:02
Yeah, it does great. I think it's the lighting that
1:32:04
stands out to me the most. I know Rob Hardy won a BAFTA for
1:32:07
photography and lighting on Boyer a couple of years before,
1:32:10
so maybe that's not a surprise, but I mean any shot of Ava and
1:32:13
silhouette and there's a few the great I know that Rob Hardy
1:32:17
wanted to avoid fluorescence because he thought it was like a
1:32:19
sci-fi cliche. So we had them build the lights
1:32:21
into the set of Ava's like room. So everything is sort of lit
1:32:25
from within the frame, which is quite a cool way of doing it.
1:32:28
Superb lighting. But like we mentioned, I do wish
1:32:30
there was a bit more dynamism in the camera movements to be
1:32:32
honest. It feels quite detached and
1:32:34
subtle, which is intentional I think, but maybe Echo was
1:32:37
watched on the screen a bit too much.
1:32:39
Yeah, it's very safe, isn't it? You know what you can see from
1:32:41
each frame? There's nothing like, wow, I
1:32:42
didn't expect to see that. And it's all tungsten lit as
1:32:45
well, so it's got gels on it. So he's lit it like he was
1:32:47
shooting it on film. So it is.
1:32:49
It is very much him going right. Yeah, I can do this in six
1:32:51
weeks. Yeah.
1:32:53
I'm not taking any chances. Yeah, exactly.
1:32:55
Yeah. I mean, I'm not expecting like a
1:32:57
Sergio Leone crashes room into Eva or anything that will be
1:33:00
mental, but as you know, maybe make the camera moves more
1:33:02
organic and natural as Eva develops.
1:33:06
Every time she says lie, it's just a crash.
1:33:10
Lie on the screen like a Tarantino now.
1:33:15
So yeah, it is very well shot obviously, but the lighting is
1:33:17
the way I know it was. Sex market now the most, I
1:33:19
think. Yeah, this was the first time
1:33:21
that Rob Hardy had worked with Alex Garland Gone that had seen
1:33:24
Red Ride in 1974 ATV movie. Hardy had shot and hired him
1:33:28
purely because of that. Well, you said they took
1:33:30
inspiration from Kazimiya Malevich, a Russian artist, and
1:33:34
saw Lighter, an American photographer and painter.
1:33:36
Saw Lighter's work is absolutely fucking amazing.
1:33:39
Oh, it's absolutely awesome. He plays on with focus quite a
1:33:41
lot, doesn't he? You can see that if you look at
1:33:43
his stuff, you can see the influence instantly that it's
1:33:45
had on Ex Machina. And Kasimir Malevich was known
1:33:48
for, like, avant-garde abstract art, so it's out there.
1:33:52
Yeah, I'm going to talk about the visual effects because I
1:33:54
think this is where the money has been spent, hasn't it?
1:33:57
Like yes. It wasn't on light it.
1:34:00
Wasn't it wasn't on light Because it doesn't matter how
1:34:03
good Vikandra is, if Ava doesn't work as a concept and doesn't
1:34:06
look great, then the film is dead.
1:34:08
But every penny has been so well spent and she does look
1:34:11
incredible. The effect work is seamless.
1:34:13
The way her face just blends into the robotic structure that
1:34:16
she actually is, That's incredible.
1:34:19
And what I love about it though, is it's futuristic, but it's not
1:34:22
too futuristic. Yeah, nearly ten years on, it
1:34:25
doesn't update it, and I can't imagine it ever will.
1:34:28
And I know the way Ava looks was designed by a comic book artist
1:34:31
called Mark Simpson, better known as Jock, and he'd worked
1:34:34
on 2018. And because of that, he'd been
1:34:37
hired as a concept artist on Dredd, which is how he and Alex
1:34:40
Garland met. And Garland told him he wanted
1:34:43
something that made sense in our post Apple world, not something
1:34:46
that look like C3PO. Imagine that the three PO comes
1:34:50
with bottling in Hello. She 3PO.
1:34:54
Not this guy again, but Garland seems to always hire creative
1:34:58
talent. Sensibly, he got jogging costume
1:35:00
designer Sammy Shell, and he hired her because she'd been
1:35:03
costume designer and kick ass and X-Men First Class, among
1:35:05
lots of other famous films. But she had the designer skin
1:35:08
fitting suit. Felicia Vikanda.
1:35:10
A bit like a superhero suit. Yeah, And the visual effects
1:35:13
supervisor was Andrew Whitehurst, and he banned his
1:35:16
team from looking at pictures of robots and replaced them with
1:35:19
like F1 cars and high concept bikes and things.
1:35:22
And they took integration from them forever instead.
1:35:24
Right. Yeah.
1:35:25
Yeah. That makes sense.
1:35:26
Yeah, it definitely does, yeah. Every frame of Eva needed work
1:35:30
from Double Negative to convert her suit into the see through
1:35:33
mesh body that we see on the screen.
1:35:35
Yeah, and they used a Sony as I've said, and the use of Sony
1:35:37
65 camera with an anamorphic lens, which caused the problem
1:35:40
because it meant Ava was distorted in the frame whenever
1:35:42
she was slightly out of focus, which it will do with an
1:35:45
anamorphic lens from 1930. Yeah, yeah.
1:35:50
So how they did it was they used motion control cameras and shot
1:35:53
all of Ava's scenes twice, once with Alicia, Vikanda in the
1:35:56
frame and once without. So he was kind of face, hands
1:35:59
and feet all Vikanda, but the kind of semi transparent body in
1:36:03
the skull. That's all digital effects.
1:36:05
Wow. I think it looks brilliant.
1:36:07
She looks. Real.
1:36:07
You see the breakdown, don't you?
1:36:08
So you see the background with nothing and then her face and
1:36:10
hands up here and then the rest of it just comes over the top.
1:36:13
Exactly. It's unreal.
1:36:14
Yeah, it's so. Fantastic work, yeah.
1:36:16
And there are practical effects in the film, too, like when
1:36:19
Caleb slices his arm open when Nathan has stopped and the
1:36:23
makeup drop in Vikander so that the skin of her face overlaps
1:36:26
the back of her skull. That took three hours every day.
1:36:30
Yeah, looks great. That like RoboCop.
1:36:32
Yeah, yes, thankful she's got a tiny face.
1:36:36
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that way should look huge.
1:36:38
Should have got a meal in there. The toxic waste guy from
1:36:40
RoboCop. Well, talking of classic movie
1:36:43
robots, we have our third and final Patreon question now.
1:36:46
So two patrons asked a very similar question.
1:36:49
So, Marta greatest. Hi, Marta.
1:36:52
Hi, Marta. She said greeting is from
1:36:55
Portugal. Eurovision.
1:37:01
Alicia Vikanda makes for a gorgeous looking robot.
1:37:04
True story matter. Which movie has the most
1:37:07
realistic robots of them all? And Tyrone James.
1:37:10
Hello there, Tyrone. Hello, Tyrone.
1:37:12
Hello, Tyrone, he said. First off, I just wanted to say
1:37:15
what an outstanding job you will not do.
1:37:17
You've rekindled my love of movies.
1:37:18
Very kind, Tyrone. That's right.
1:37:21
It is my question in the robot sci-fi genre, which film has
1:37:25
done it best. So this is a pretty good one.
1:37:27
Movie robots. It was the best, basically.
1:37:30
Right. Where's Steve?
1:37:33
I mean, there's all the obvious ones, isn't?
1:37:35
I mean, Roy Buddy's number one for me, because just before that
1:37:38
speech at the end, you know, lovely.
1:37:40
Just incredible. Ruka, how I was just so
1:37:42
wonderful in that role. And RoboCop.
1:37:44
Yep, obviously Bishop. Yep.
1:37:47
But for me, they want the real standouts are the good and evil
1:37:51
robot horses from Bogus Journey and Lisa from Weird Science.
1:37:59
Obviously. For me, they're the absolute top
1:38:02
of the tree. So yeah, no.
1:38:03
But I in all seriousness, I would say Roy body look how his
1:38:05
performance is absolutely flawless.
1:38:07
Yeah, well, for me, top five movie robots.
1:38:10
That's right up your fucking St. It's just five I've.
1:38:13
Narrowed them down. I'm not surprised.
1:38:16
So fifth, I've got Eva edging out.
1:38:18
R2D2R2 is a great guy obviously, but Eva for the reasons we're
1:38:22
talking about here, kind of complexity 4th hard 9000 from
1:38:26
2001. I think he's like a creation way
1:38:29
ahead of his time in 1968 and the influence on lots of things.
1:38:32
Mother from Alien. Samantha from her kit from
1:38:35
Knight Rider Third. I've also got Roy Batty from
1:38:38
Blade Runner, possibly the most complex and thought provoking
1:38:41
robot in movies, and the flair for the dramatic delivers the
1:38:44
hell out of a final word speech. Obviously right on my street.
1:38:49
Second, possibly the most influential movie Robot Maria
1:38:52
from Metropolis. A massive influence on C3PO, but
1:38:55
aside from that I've only got positive things to say about
1:38:57
her. Don't know that against her.
1:39:02
And first, not necessarily a cerebral one, but my favorite is
1:39:06
probably the Terminator. I mean, the T1000 is great, but
1:39:09
I'm going T800, the Endo Skeleton designed by James
1:39:12
Cameron after the Xenomorph. Possibly my favorite piece of
1:39:15
design in movies, and one of the great movie villains as well.
1:39:18
So relatively easy one for me, Arnold.
1:39:23
Every fucking time I. Had mud?
1:39:28
Yeah, I mean, my number one could not be more different to
1:39:31
than both of yours. Lovely, because I'm going for
1:39:33
Wally, obviously. You know that little guy just
1:39:36
trying to keep the earth clean. Saves you, Andy, from being fat.
1:39:39
Disgusting. What a hero.
1:39:40
Love that guy. I.
1:39:42
Thought you were going to say 25 there?
1:39:44
Oh no, he. He was 6.
1:39:46
He was 6. Johnny 6.
1:39:48
Johnny. Six.
1:39:49
Yeah. One I did want to mention
1:39:52
because I think probably an influence on how Ava looks.
1:39:54
I'd say David from AI, which is a really great performance from
1:39:58
Haley Joe Osmond, Yeah, really brings a lot of.
1:40:00
Human Teddy's good in that as well, Teddy.
1:40:01
'S good as well, yeah, Yeah. For talking about realistic
1:40:03
performances, I've always liked those like dumpy ones that what
1:40:08
about in Silent Running, in the Bio Dome?
1:40:11
They're great. And when I was a kid, the one
1:40:14
that terrified me. Can you remember the Black Hole?
1:40:16
The Disney. Film.
1:40:17
Oh, yes, you. Remember that killer robot
1:40:19
that's not Maximilian terrified me.
1:40:21
That was a kid. And I also thought I just wanted
1:40:23
to go a bit old school and mention like the 1950s classic.
1:40:26
So you got Robbie the Robot from Forbidden Planet and then got
1:40:30
from The Day the Earth Stood Still.
1:40:31
Nice. Classics.
1:40:33
I believe those three robots on Silent Running are called Huey,
1:40:36
Julie, and Louis. That's right.
1:40:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Different colors aren't?
1:40:39
Are they red, green and blue as well?
1:40:40
I. Think they are.
1:40:42
For their work on the film, Andrew Whitehurst and Double
1:40:44
Negative won Best Achievement in Visual Effects at the Oscars,
1:40:47
beating out The Revenant, Mad Max, Fury Road and The Force
1:40:50
Awakens, all of which had budget at least nine times higher.
1:40:53
The next marketer. So some great work.
1:40:56
That's impressive. Absolutely.
1:40:57
Yeah. I mean, Fury Road and The
1:40:59
Revenant, we're all pretty much in camera anyway.
1:41:01
Yeah. Yeah.
1:41:01
So I think this is well deserved.
1:41:03
Yeah, and a lot of great creative people brought top work
1:41:06
to the table on Ex Machina, from Alex Garland through Ben
1:41:09
Salisbury and Jeff Barrow, Sammy Sheldon, Rob Hardy, Andrew
1:41:12
Whitehurst and Double Negative. So major talents contributed to
1:41:15
the film. Absolutely.
1:41:17
Yeah. Really strong backbone to give
1:41:18
Garland the conference to direct his first feature, I think.
1:41:21
Yeah, the end. The 3rd and final active X
1:41:30
Machina. They are twists and turns of
1:41:31
plenty and we're talking all of it.
1:41:34
The Denu Mall where Ava leaves Nathan's home and Caleb on the
1:41:38
new adventure is coming, but before that it's the key and
1:41:41
violent moment she escapes her cage.
1:41:44
So Ava and Caleb have hatched a plan for Ava to escape before
1:41:47
Nathan shuts her down. However, Nathan knows about the
1:41:51
plan. However, Caleb knows.
1:41:53
Nathan knows about the plan. Caleb trips the system and Eva
1:41:57
escapes. She meets her maker, and then
1:42:00
Nathan meets as much. What do you think of the climax?
1:42:04
I think that bit where Nathan reveals he knows the plan that
1:42:08
is such a sickener for Caleb oh. He's good at, isn't he?
1:42:12
He's good at. From minute one he's been
1:42:15
manipulated throughout and all he's ever done was what Nathan
1:42:19
was expecting him to do. And Nathan is such a Dick that
1:42:23
when Caleb says and he didn't select me because I was good at
1:42:26
coding, he can't even lie. He goes, no.
1:42:29
Well, you're OK like. Form of born.
1:42:33
Spare him one punch here. Kick someone.
1:42:35
He's out. Kick some money sound, but it's
1:42:38
so well played by everyone because you absolutely think, oh
1:42:41
God yeah, Nathan's plan. It's worked.
1:42:43
That's what it's been about all along.
1:42:45
Caleb's an idiot. Nathan even knows about the
1:42:48
power cut that they had planned together.
1:42:50
But then it flips. And when Caleb says I already
1:42:53
did all those things when I got you drunk yesterday, that's the
1:42:56
one time the film I feel like cheering for Caleb because you
1:43:00
think, oh, he's flipped it at the last.
1:43:02
He has been clever all along. It's such a brilliant scene of
1:43:06
betrayal about who's got the real power here, and it turns
1:43:09
from a sucker punch to Caleb to a sucker punch to Nathan so
1:43:12
effectively. And then Ava just flips it again
1:43:14
at the end. Yeah, it does, but the time
1:43:17
frames at the end confuse me. So the plan is Eva's going to
1:43:21
turn the power off at 10:00 PM. Caleb wants to get Nathan drunk,
1:43:24
but Caleb refuses to drink in what looks like the morning.
1:43:28
It's very light. Anyway.
1:43:29
Caleb and Nathan then go to another room where Nathan
1:43:32
reveals his plan like a Bond villain, and then the power goes
1:43:34
off. It's like, hey, what time is it?
1:43:36
What's going on that side? I like the way it plays out a
1:43:40
lot. The power switch from Caleb who
1:43:42
has a plan, to Nathan who's rumbled him back to Caleb, who
1:43:44
figured out Nathan was watching. That's all really good.
1:43:48
It's great that Caleb finally manages our fox Nathan.
1:43:50
Otherwise he would have been worse than useless for the whole
1:43:53
film and really creepy. But interesting.
1:43:56
When Caleb says did you design Ava's face?
1:43:58
Based on my pornography profile? I mean Daddy said face and not
1:44:02
body. Oh that would have been really
1:44:03
weird. I mean, we're obviously focused
1:44:06
on the AI aspects, but manipulation is definitely a
1:44:08
theme in the writing 2-3 very different personalities and
1:44:11
Nathan, Caleb and Ava. And the thing they all do is
1:44:14
manipulate. Nathan manipulates Caleb and
1:44:16
taking part in the Turing test. Caleb manipulates Nathan when he
1:44:19
turns the tables and Ava manipulates Caleb to escape.
1:44:23
I think that's why we get the title Eva Session 7.
1:44:25
Even though this test isn't taking place anymore.
1:44:27
It's kind of her final Test and she passes and softest clawed
1:44:32
Caleb isn't he One punch. It's Goodnight Vienna.
1:44:35
Oh, like a light. He's.
1:44:38
Rubbish. Like he is rubbish.
1:44:39
So the bit I'll talk about is when Eva finally kills Nathan.
1:44:43
Oh, does she really? Oh yeah, we'll go.
1:44:46
Yeah, we're talking about not being sexual, but I mean, this
1:44:51
is the part where it is. It's the.
1:44:53
Kind of is, yeah. It's really slow, isn't it?
1:44:55
Yeah, it is, Yeah. There's that kind of disbelief.
1:44:58
I mean, the effects work here. When she dives on him and
1:45:01
wrestling with him, it's fantastic.
1:45:03
You just because it's brightly lit, you see everything.
1:45:05
Yeah. And the really interesting thing
1:45:08
for me here is it's not necessarily Eva who initiates
1:45:11
the killing. It's Cue.
1:45:12
She's behind him and what happens is he's leaving neighbor
1:45:15
away and he goes on to cheat. Cue was holding the knife and he
1:45:17
kills himself. He going backs onto the knife.
1:45:20
She doesn't stab him, she doesn't push it forward, she
1:45:22
just holds it. So it's to me it's like his own
1:45:25
inventions killing him, his own arrogance that he's turned his
1:45:27
back on. His invention is his downfall.
1:45:30
Yeah, however has been programmed to a higher level so
1:45:32
she can go through with it. She can't thrust forward, she
1:45:35
can make the decision. It's all part of that
1:45:38
consciousness of how more advanced she is.
1:45:41
And she manipulates Kyogo to do that, don't you just says
1:45:43
basically stand there and hold the knife, I'll do the rest and
1:45:45
he backs onto it. So she finishes him off and I
1:45:48
think it's just really, really brilliant and it's just his
1:45:50
emotion there where he's like fucking unreal.
1:45:53
Yeah. He doesn't believe it's
1:45:54
happening and he's working at that point.
1:45:56
When he's walking off, he's like, I can't believe it's
1:45:58
backfired. Shit, but if Kyogo hadn't
1:46:01
stabbed him in the 1st place, I don't think Evo to got the
1:46:03
better of him. Well, Eva whispers something in
1:46:05
Cure goes. Yeah, doesn't she?
1:46:06
I'm assuming it's what she says to either.
1:46:08
Makes us stop him. Apparently it's just like a
1:46:10
change of program, just just to show that Ava's more advanced.
1:46:13
And I think as a screenwriter, Alex Colin understands the
1:46:15
process and he says you've got to respect the first draft,
1:46:17
otherwise he's going to come back and stab me in the back.
1:46:21
Yeah, I think that may be the point he's trying to get to
1:46:23
here, But it's very clever, very good effects, works wonderful.
1:46:25
And yeah, even still from Isaac, Yeah, I'm sorry to see him go,
1:46:29
to be fair. And I think he's surprised as
1:46:31
much as well. Yeah, whenever says if I go back
1:46:34
to my room, are you ever going to let me out?
1:46:36
And Nathan says yes. I mean, we already know that he
1:46:38
was like a lie detector, but really artificial intelligence
1:46:41
to spot that fib. He's like, yeah, yes I am.
1:46:47
I'm Ron Burgundy. But how it all comes together, I
1:46:53
think it's really smart. Like I say, I don't think
1:46:55
Garland's he has to make a judgement on whether AI will be
1:46:58
a good or a bad thing if and when it comes.
1:47:00
We'll see that in Eva she kills Nathan like the worst thing a
1:47:03
human can do, take the life of another, but he's locked her up
1:47:06
and threatened to shut her off, Like kill her.
1:47:08
If a human killed someone who did, that would surely say it
1:47:11
was justified. I think.
1:47:12
I certainly would anyway. But imagine this.
1:47:14
In real life, Mark Zuckerberg found murder in his mansion,
1:47:17
comes out, he invented an AI that killed him and is now out
1:47:20
there in the world somewhere mental.
1:47:23
You have to get that guard in. Get the Blade Runner.
1:47:26
Also, you mentioned the Westie. I've no idea if it's supposed to
1:47:29
be funny, but I always laugh after Nathan's been stabbed and
1:47:32
he's just like fucking unreal to himself.
1:47:35
I. Want my last lines to be fucking
1:47:39
unreal or watch this. So when Caleb sits in Nathan's
1:47:47
computers, we'll see him type some code, and what he types is
1:47:50
called the Save of Eratosthenes, which is an algorithm for
1:47:53
finding prime numbers, and the prime numbers it chooses are the
1:47:56
same numbers. The ISBN number for Embodiment
1:48:00
in the Inner Life by Murray Shanahan, which is one of the
1:48:02
biggest that influence Garland. Nice.
1:48:05
What a reference that is. That's outrageous.
1:48:08
No one spot that. Apart from you?
1:48:13
Yeah, very nice. Very.
1:48:15
Simple code, so try saying it John.
1:48:18
That's a challenge. Yeah, so Eva escapes.
1:48:23
Nathan is dead and Caleb. Still a bit of a SAP, isn't he?
1:48:27
Yeah. Yeah, he's got a lot of time to
1:48:28
think about it. By this point in the film, Eva
1:48:33
has the run of the place. In the final moment, she puts on
1:48:36
a new skin and outfit and leaves Caleb to die.
1:48:39
Basically, she heads for a traffic intersection for a
1:48:42
concentrated but shifting view of human life.
1:48:45
Mart apparently. How was the ending for you?
1:48:49
I really love this ending and I love the scene where she does,
1:48:53
you know, choose the new arm and the skin.
1:48:55
Because the way the scene plays out, even though at least she
1:48:58
Ficanda is naked in it, it doesn't play at all sleazy or
1:49:02
torn or not anything like that. It's more about birth or
1:49:06
rebirth. Because this realisation that
1:49:08
Eva has had this plan and she set it in motion to play these
1:49:12
two guys off each other and it's worked and now she's weak.
1:49:15
But there's only one thing left for that character to do, and
1:49:18
that's to choose her identity going forward.
1:49:21
And that's why I say Rebirth, because it is this character,
1:49:24
even arguably a person leave behind the previous identity
1:49:27
where she was just seen as a robot and a prisoner and now she
1:49:31
can for all intents and purposes pass as a human and that
1:49:35
involves taking on a new identity.
1:49:36
So that scene of like taking off the skin and applying it to
1:49:40
herself, putting in the new arm, choosing a hair, they all skirt
1:49:43
that line of. Yeah, on one hand that's really
1:49:45
creepy, the visual of it, But there's a real innocence to them
1:49:49
as well. It is like a newborn just
1:49:51
getting ready to go out into the world to really interesting how
1:49:54
that's played out. One thing I noticed on the skin
1:49:57
as well. I don't know if you guys have
1:49:58
seen this. I don't know if it's just my
1:49:59
copy of the DVD or what, but on the on our shoulder, when you
1:50:02
see it and it goes from like just a head and shoulder shot,
1:50:05
there's kind of like this digital abandoned on a skin as
1:50:08
if it's kind of like being pushed on and it's just coming
1:50:11
into the mesh and then the abandoned just really subtly
1:50:14
disappears and blends. All right.
1:50:15
Yeah. Have you noticed that?
1:50:17
Yeah, I was like, that's a such a fucking lovely touch to say
1:50:19
that it's all just meshing in and like it becomes one, like it
1:50:22
doesn't fit her at 1st and then it just blends in.
1:50:24
Such a lovely touch, that. Yeah, it is.
1:50:26
Yeah, I love that shot at the start of Caleb when he's locked
1:50:29
out, the computers and the screens around him all say
1:50:31
rejected. Rejected in every way for poor
1:50:34
Caleb. And at the end, Eva basically
1:50:38
leaves Caleb for dead. I mean, not much empathy there,
1:50:41
which might make you think it's because she's a machine, but for
1:50:43
me, why would you have any? Why would you trust or like any
1:50:46
human? Because of how he was being
1:50:47
brought into the world. Her view of the world is totally
1:50:50
messed up throughout the end. I kind of find myself constantly
1:50:53
thinking, how would a judge Eva's behavior if she was a
1:50:55
human? Which I think is at least partly
1:50:58
what Garland's going for, Which is really smart.
1:51:00
And I think I forgive all of it, just about to be honest, because
1:51:03
she's been caged up and if there was any doubt, there's a moment
1:51:06
here that I think says Eva definitely has consciousness.
1:51:10
When she goes to walk up the stairs in the apartment.
1:51:12
She turns round and smiles. Smiles when she's not being
1:51:14
watched, yeah. Exactly.
1:51:16
She's by herself, so it's not an act, it's a real smile.
1:51:19
Maybe the only real emotion we'll see from Eva in the whole
1:51:22
film. She does glance over to Caleb as
1:51:24
well as the lift. Door.
1:51:25
That's a strange one as well, yeah.
1:51:26
Yeah, but she spent the whole film comparing him to Nathan,
1:51:29
convincing herself that he's a bad person.
1:51:31
She asked if he's a good person and then he goes come and stop
1:51:33
the test. You know, as she says are you a
1:51:35
good person? So it's she's kind of just
1:51:37
backing up that decision because she knows what has to happen.
1:51:40
Well, exactly. Nathan's the only human she's
1:51:41
ever met, so she has no idea what humans are like.
1:51:44
Really. Just one person.
1:51:46
I've got a little bit here that's going to make you love
1:51:48
this film even more than you love it.
1:51:50
Here we go. I saw it and I was like, oh fuck
1:51:53
if that's like intentional, which I hope it is, and I think
1:51:55
it is, and it is for me anyway, because it's on the screen.
1:51:58
So if you want to take it like this, you can.
1:52:00
If you want to run with it, it's all yours.
1:52:02
If you don't like it, tell us to fuck off.
1:52:03
Whatever. So there's a she mirrors Caleb
1:52:07
arrived and that's all fair and good.
1:52:08
She walks through the the forest and that's all fair and good.
1:52:11
She's at one with nature. She gets into the helicopter,
1:52:14
which people go, well, how does that guy know who he's picking
1:52:16
up and who he's dropping off? He doesn't give a fuck.
1:52:17
He's not told anything. This is beautiful shot where
1:52:20
it's inverted and you've got shadows, right?
1:52:24
And the shadows of people are walking backwards and forwards.
1:52:27
Oh yeah, and then you've got Eva Shadow that just is cast
1:52:30
straight along the whole frame. Look at the frame, and the frame
1:52:35
is put there like a chess board. It's all it's got all the
1:52:38
squares of a chess board and her shadow.
1:52:40
If you invert and shoot upside down and invert a chess board,
1:52:44
her cut, her shadow was cast exactly where the queen would
1:52:46
be. Right.
1:52:48
Which means that you can go anywhere that she wants on that
1:52:50
chess board. So she's now free to go anywhere
1:52:52
that she wants in the world. Which also backs up, how does a
1:52:56
chess computer know what's playing chess or doesn't know
1:52:58
what's playing chess? So it backs up that argument
1:53:00
from the start. So that is the one of the final
1:53:02
images for me out of score. Well, I love this film even
1:53:04
more. So I hope that's intentional,
1:53:06
because it's so fucking good. A great shot.
1:53:08
That's cool. It's fucking it.
1:53:09
It's absolutely that. It's like, yeah, brilliant.
1:53:11
That's really good. Yeah.
1:53:12
I mean, I like Ava, and I hope she's all right.
1:53:15
I'm sure she's fine, John. Really worried worried about it.
1:53:20
She's married to Fassbender. She's fucking sound.
1:53:24
But that moment that people talk about, where Ava glances at
1:53:26
Caleb is the lift doors, toes. You mentioned the Westie.
1:53:28
For me, I think the point about that is that we don't know why
1:53:31
she looks at him. She's complex, She's a person.
1:53:34
If a human looked at you in that situation, you wouldn't know
1:53:36
what it meant, really. And we don't know here.
1:53:38
And I think that's what it's all about.
1:53:40
And the final shot where Ava kind of vanishes into the crowd
1:53:42
of people. Yeah, I always take that kind of
1:53:44
thing as the film's way of telling us the rest of a story
1:53:47
and that there isn't one really, or not an interesting one.
1:53:49
She kind of fade into the background and just goes and
1:53:52
lives a life. Yeah, she ends the film as a
1:53:54
reflection, the same as everybody else.
1:53:55
So she blends in. Yeah, everyone else.
1:53:57
She doesn't stand out. She's behind the glass exactly
1:53:59
where she's always Josh is on the opposite that the opposite
1:54:02
side of the glass really. So she is free and where she
1:54:05
needs to be and then disappears into the crowd, which is perfect
1:54:07
way to end it. It is.
1:54:08
And then you get Husbands by Savages on the credits, which is
1:54:11
very strange choice but an excellent song.
1:54:15
And there was the same shot for the final moments of the film.
1:54:17
Garland ended up removing. And it's after we see Ava walk
1:54:21
up to the helicopter pilot. There was going to be a shot
1:54:23
from her POV, which is where we would see the world, how Ava
1:54:27
sees it. And the idea was that the
1:54:29
pilot's face is all pulses and sound waves coming out, which is
1:54:33
how she reads the world. Wow.
1:54:36
Yeah, so she doesn't perceive sound how we do.
1:54:38
Not sure why I was caught. I would hazard a guess about
1:54:40
budget maybe or something, as the budget was far from massive,
1:54:43
but a shame. It sounds pretty cool.
1:54:45
It does, and that's the end of Ex Machina.
1:54:48
Some plot twists, some murder, and Eva escapes into the big
1:54:51
wide world. I think we all seem to find it
1:54:54
pretty satisfying. Really satisfying, yeah.
1:54:56
Caleb was also AI and it had been built all the way through.
1:54:59
And yeah, that would have done it for me, but I'm quite happy
1:55:02
with that. Would have said that's fine
1:55:06
reception and awards. So following all of that, Ex
1:55:12
Machina premiered at the BFI South Bank in December 2014 and
1:55:16
then rolled out across Europe and the US in the following
1:55:18
months. Actually, I say that, but even
1:55:21
though it started a Swedish actress in one of the leads, Ex
1:55:23
Machina was never released in Swedish cinemas.
1:55:26
Apparently the consensus from the screen, as was that it
1:55:28
wasn't very good. So wow, just didn't play.
1:55:31
Yeah. Who decides that?
1:55:34
Not very good. Would never get anything
1:55:37
released. If that was like, I would work
1:55:39
over. Here I know.
1:55:42
Everywhere else though. How was it received?
1:55:44
Well, our very own stats robot, ex Martina if you like, is he
1:55:50
had to tell us. Fucking yes.
1:55:53
Girlfriend. Yep, so on a budget of $15
1:55:56
million, Ex Machina cost 37.3 million in total, which isn't
1:56:00
shabby. And then at the Oscars, as was
1:56:02
said, Garland was nominated for Best Original Screenplay and the
1:56:06
film won for Best Visual Effects.
1:56:09
Yes. Did OK, and moving on to the
1:56:11
critics, Roger Ebert had sadly passed away before the film came
1:56:14
out. But writing on rogerebert.com,
1:56:17
Manzola Sides gave her the entire four stars out of four.
1:56:20
And he said this is a classic nerd fantasy and there is a
1:56:24
sense in which Ex Machina might be described as Stanley
1:56:27
Kubrick's weird science. That's brilliant.
1:56:35
I mean. They should just call it that.
1:56:38
I mean, I'd love to see that. Alex Garland presents Stanley
1:56:41
Kubrick's weird side. The science and technology
1:56:47
magazine New Scientist said it is a rare thing to see a movie
1:56:50
about science that takes no prisoners.
1:56:52
Intellectually, Ex Machina is a stylish, spare and cerebral
1:56:56
psycho techno thriller which gives a much needed shot in the
1:56:58
arm for smart science fiction. Yeah, can't imagine we'll have
1:57:02
too many new scientists reviews on here in future.
1:57:04
So there you. Go wouldn't.
1:57:05
Have thought so, the first and last I think.
1:57:08
Well, might have one for speed in the next episode.
1:57:10
You never know was couldn't do that.
1:57:14
Velocity equals X and Oh no. And Empire Magazine gave X
1:57:20
Machina 4 stars out of five and said stylish, elegant, tense,
1:57:23
cerebral, satirical and creepy. Garland's directorial debut was
1:57:27
his best work yet, while Vikanda's Ball performance will
1:57:30
short your circuits. Nice.
1:57:33
Johnny 5 is alive. Yeah, should have called that,
1:57:35
Stephanie. And today on Rotten Tomatoes, Ex
1:57:40
Machina has a critics approval rating of 92% and an audience
1:57:44
approval rating of 86%. And on IMDb it has 7.7 out of 10
1:57:49
which leaves a just short of the IMDb top 250.
1:57:54
Huge scores on Rotten Tomatoes there, yeah.
1:57:56
Massive, yeah. Also a final little story which
1:57:59
I think is quite good. OK.
1:58:01
When Ex Machina was shown in South by Southwest Film Festival
1:58:04
in Texas, a 24 like their marketing team came up with a
1:58:08
pretty novel way to promote the film.
1:58:10
So they set up an account on Tinder called Eva.
1:58:13
They used images of Alicia, Vikanda, popular.
1:58:18
Wow, that was the people. That's why.
1:58:19
Do you think? And then they had this bot that
1:58:22
would just chat to random guys before directing them to the Ex
1:58:25
Machina Instagram account, which is medieval.
1:58:29
It's not even got 2000 followers on Instagram accounts.
1:58:31
I'm not sure how successful it was, but there must have been
1:58:33
lots of disappointed young fellas out there.
1:58:35
Why? It wasn't successful.
1:58:39
Crack them on off to Instagram. Go on match with, sorry.
1:58:47
So Ex Machina did well in this release, didn't set the world
1:58:50
light at the box office, but well received critically and by
1:58:53
award bodies. And if you want more, ever, get
1:58:55
yourself off the Tinder. Sequels and influence.
1:59:07
There were no sequels to Ex Machina, and Alex Garland has
1:59:10
said they never will be. So don't hold your breath.
1:59:13
I mean, I guess narratively there could have been one.
1:59:15
If out in the world, would you like to have seen that?
1:59:19
I don't think I would like to have seen a full film.
1:59:21
I'd like to see a pop up in like 28 years later, just in the
1:59:24
background. Yeah, that'll be cool.
1:59:25
Yeah. Just walking around.
1:59:26
Coming in like Arnie blown, Yeah, blown the infected away.
1:59:32
Coming in with Arnie. Yeah, that would be good though.
1:59:35
Like kind of just making it all in the same universe, I guess.
1:59:38
But I don't know. I wouldn't like to see a
1:59:39
standalone. I think it says everything it
1:59:41
wants to see and it leads us to the viewer.
1:59:43
Which is the best way to end it. What about the legacy of this
1:59:45
film though? Because X not going to have a
1:59:47
legacy, Matt. I think it feels to me this is a
1:59:49
film that is still waiting to be discovered by a lot of people.
1:59:53
And you know, I said at the top, I thought this was the left
1:59:56
field choice for a classic episode.
1:59:58
So it obviously has its fans to win the board.
2:00:00
But just in general, I don't know if it's good through the
2:00:03
popular culture in that way. And I think it does get
2:00:06
swallowed up a bit by Black Mirror being around it.
2:00:09
I think probably the most identifiable influence I've seen
2:00:12
is a film from last year, The Creator, which I felt was very
2:00:15
visually similar to this in a lot of ways.
2:00:17
But other than that, I think it is it's it's from when to be
2:00:21
discovered by a lot more people I think.
2:00:23
Yeah, it is. I think it's aged very well in
2:00:26
terms of like the visual effects from Double Negative.
2:00:28
Ava still looks great. She still feels like if and when
2:00:31
true AI appears, a possible scenario of what it could be
2:00:34
like. And also it's aged well in the
2:00:36
themes it explores. If anything, a deep exploration
2:00:39
of artificial intelligence and it's kind of ramifications
2:00:42
that's more relevant now than it was then.
2:00:44
There's a point where I think if Ex Machina was released today, I
2:00:47
wonder if it might have done better with the box office.
2:00:48
Maybe, yeah. I think even if it was re
2:00:51
released today, I think a lot of people will go on and watch it
2:00:53
again. I think you're right.
2:00:54
Yeah. I think the wood, I mean on it's
2:00:55
true legacy. Time will tell.
2:00:57
I mean, when you look at like 2001, the amount of times I've
2:00:59
heard real life physicists are futurists saying it was that
2:01:02
film that made them want to be a scientist.
2:01:04
Yeah, who knows? Maybe the genius who eventually
2:01:06
creates not official intelligence.
2:01:08
Miles Tyson, I think he's called.
2:01:10
Maybe they'll see it all. Started with X Magana.
2:01:12
And Tinder. I'm actually going to date her.
2:01:18
I'm going to make this a reality.
2:01:19
Yeah, If so, then that'll be some legacy Alice Garland has.
2:01:23
Yeah, definitely. Or if it is Miles Dyson, he'll
2:01:25
have a lot to answer for. Exactly.
2:01:27
We'll turn Alex Garland almost into a goal.
2:01:29
I didn't really say that. And Wesley.
2:01:34
Yeah, I mean it's it's very influential isn't it, in the way
2:01:36
that it looks. And I think the main thing that
2:01:39
you get from this is TV series. I know this was influenced quite
2:01:42
a lot by Breaking Bad and it was influenced a lot by Taxi Driver
2:01:45
in the way that it's just two people having a conversation.
2:01:48
TV shows like Westworld, we've mentioned that.
2:01:50
I think that was a massive push for that to come out and and you
2:01:54
know from the set design and everything else, I think it that
2:01:57
had definitely has a look and there is this element of science
2:02:00
fiction coming back like Matt said with the creator.
2:02:02
I think there is going to be a new wave of panic because that's
2:02:06
the best form of science fiction that comes from panic of the
2:02:10
future. Oh my God, there's new
2:02:11
technology, what's going to happen?
2:02:13
You know, And I think a lot of people are plugging into AI and
2:02:15
a lot of people hadn't heard of it and a lot of people have seen
2:02:17
it now in their everyday life and they're thinking, holy shit,
2:02:19
this is terrifying. And people are going to cotton
2:02:22
on to that and make something that's, you know, even more
2:02:24
relevant than this is. So yeah, no Ex Machina sequels.
2:02:28
But in catapulting Alex Garland's career, earning A
2:02:31
reputation as a called classic and foreshadowing the rise of
2:02:34
AII think it could be around for some time to come.
2:02:37
Yes, definitely. People will find this film, I
2:02:39
think. They'll have to fly for two
2:02:41
hours, but they'll find it all the right movies ranking.
2:02:49
And we've been all the way through Ex Machina.
2:02:51
We're not done yet, though. Oh no.
2:02:54
It's time to give us some reasons cause for the film.
2:02:56
Oh yeah, the bit everyone's baited breath everyone's waiting
2:03:00
for. This is the real Turing test.
2:03:05
Oh, best you want to go first. You're reading out of 10 for X
2:03:07
Machina, please. Yes, I will go first.
2:03:10
Yeah. I mean, we've covered all the
2:03:11
bases and I think people will know.
2:03:12
Kind of my view on this now. It's a very accomplished film.
2:03:16
It's very watchable. It's very competent, it's very
2:03:18
clever, it's very intelligent. There's a lot to it.
2:03:20
But I really wish there'd been more to it.
2:03:22
I just don't feel like I've been through the ringer enough.
2:03:25
I don't feel emotional enough on the Beats that it's supposed to
2:03:28
be. I don't feel like I've been on a
2:03:30
journey. I feel like I've watched
2:03:32
something that's been on the page and it's been put very well
2:03:35
on the screen and I've had to look for deeper meaning to get
2:03:38
something more from it, which is there and that's fine.
2:03:40
But I would rather that was fed to us a little bit more with a
2:03:44
little bit more chew on a little bit more to talk about a little
2:03:47
bit more to get excited about. It is exactly what it is and it
2:03:50
doesn't disappoint. But for me, I just wish it was
2:03:53
that little bit more. So I'm going to give it an 8 out
2:03:55
of 10. Well, like I said right at the
2:03:57
top, the subject matter of the film AI means my interest was
2:04:01
piqued before I knew who was in it or anything about the
2:04:03
narrative. So really all Alex Garland could
2:04:05
do was kind of screw things up from that point.
2:04:07
He's got my attention immediately and start, and maybe
2:04:10
the biggest comment I can give is to say he keeps my attention
2:04:13
for the full one hour, 50 minutes.
2:04:15
It's mostly in the writing. The level of research is as high
2:04:18
as you like to see in a science fiction film.
2:04:21
Philosophers, artists, scientists.
2:04:23
Garland gets the takes from everyone and his dog and puts it
2:04:26
in his script. He casts very well.
2:04:28
Oscar Isaac and Alicia Viacanda are especially brilliant.
2:04:31
Eva is one of the great movie robots, and Double Negative
2:04:34
played a major role in that too, and their effect work is
2:04:37
timeless. The film isn't as perfect as Eva
2:04:40
though. While he's not bad by any means,
2:04:42
I do think Donald Gleeson is kind of outshone by Isaac and
2:04:45
Vikanda, and Garland's direction doesn't interest me half as much
2:04:49
as his writing does. But definitely one of my
2:04:52
favorite films this century. The best cerebral AI film to
2:04:54
come from Hollywood, probably since Blade Runner.
2:04:57
And for me it gets a nine out of 10.
2:04:59
OK, understandable. And Matt to finish it off, your
2:05:03
summary and score for Rex Machina, please.
2:05:05
Yeah, it's a really, really interesting film and it does
2:05:09
what good sci-fi should do, which is put forward questions
2:05:12
about the future and where we headed and is it a good thing,
2:05:15
what we're doing with technology.
2:05:17
And it does so in a way that still feels fresh and relevant
2:05:20
and you've got to give it to kudos for that.
2:05:21
I think so many sci-fi films can be dated within two or three
2:05:25
years and a bit laughable. This isn't.
2:05:28
And I think Garland asked that question extremely effectively
2:05:31
within the parameters that he's created for himself.
2:05:33
And then within that, you've got two really great performances
2:05:37
and like, you've drawn up massively for Strong Glees and
2:05:40
think he's good, but he, he just can't compare to Isaac and
2:05:44
Vikanda. So Ex Machina falls into that
2:05:47
territory where there's not that much fault I can find with it,
2:05:50
but how much do I love it? And it's definitely not the type
2:05:52
of film where we've talked about this before, where you get in
2:05:55
from the pub, you've got a PT, you've got a couple of cans.
2:05:57
What are you going to stick on? You're probably not going to
2:05:59
stick on Ex Machina. And it is a film I would
2:06:02
recommend to people, but it's not one I watch that often
2:06:05
myself. It doesn't have that kind of
2:06:07
value to me. So within the genre as well,
2:06:10
does it reinvent it? Does it set a new standard?
2:06:12
No. I think it does have these
2:06:14
boundaries and it works exceptionally well within them,
2:06:17
but it doesn't change them all the same, so it's very
2:06:20
accomplished. So it's an 8.5.
2:06:22
Well, now it's time for the place in urgent need of a Turing
2:06:25
Test feature. Twitter, now known as X.
2:06:30
Some of our followers comments on X Machina.
2:06:32
Brian Hart at the Brian Hart said.
2:06:34
X Machina is intellectually rich and thought provoking.
2:06:37
Alicia Vikander's portrayal of Ava is exceptional, and the
2:06:40
film's uniquely minimalist setting amplifies its
2:06:43
psychological undercurrents. Very articulate from Brian,
2:06:47
they're. Very nice.
2:06:48
Yeah. I.
2:06:49
Think we probably agree with that, it seems.
2:06:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Set design's incredible.
2:06:53
Has to be so. It is very good, yeah,
2:06:55
Subcommander Tall at Subcommander Tall said.
2:06:58
I can't believe this isn't getting higher ratings.
2:07:01
It feels like a masterpiece to me.
2:07:03
The whole atmosphere of the film is stylized and uncanny.
2:07:05
The performances are great, the concept interesting, and the
2:07:08
ending is Gooding. Subcommander, Tall, a Romulan
2:07:12
fella, presumably wasn't the only person to call this a
2:07:17
masterpiece. That's a bit of a stretch for me
2:07:19
to be. Honest.
2:07:19
Yeah, me too. Yeah, I can't go there.
2:07:22
With it and one of our page runs, John Rappark said.
2:07:25
While Oscar Isaac's Dancing Alone gives this movie A7 the
2:07:28
direction. Writing, cinematography, it's
2:07:30
spot on. Social commentary all add up to
2:07:32
this movie. Getting a nine.
2:07:35
Everyone loves those moves. Everyone.
2:07:37
Impossible. Not do impossible.
2:07:38
Not do. And altogether, our followers
2:07:42
rated the film as What do you Think out of 10?
2:07:47
I'd say a nine, probably. Yeah, I'll go nine, Yeah.
2:07:50
It was a bit lower. It was 8 out of 10.
2:07:53
OK. So that gives X Magna 33.5 out
2:07:57
of 40 in total. If that isn't true AI, what the
2:08:00
fuck is? 33.51729.
2:08:10
So that's a wrap on next Magana, but man, what I think we've
2:08:12
shared. And all right.
2:08:14
Tell our grandchildren, right? Yeah, you want to get wasted?
2:08:17
Go right ahead. I'm a brown rice and mineral
2:08:19
water. Next time round, it's Pop Quiz
2:08:24
Hotshot as Westy Mart and Luke get into the 90s action classic
2:08:29
that is Speed. Yeah.
2:08:32
There's a bomb on the bus. There is.
2:08:35
That's the whole film. That's.
2:08:37
It look forward to that one. That's all you need.
2:08:42
No theories from me on that. Couldn't be more different to
2:08:45
this film if it tried. To find out more about becoming
2:08:49
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long as it's five stars, so. Obviously everything else is
2:09:07
just a waste of time in it, yeah.
2:09:08
Let's be fair, Absolutely. Socially, you can keep up with
2:09:11
all the right movies on Twitter or X where we are at 80 right
2:09:14
movies. We post threads on there that
2:09:16
tell the stories behind classic films.
2:09:18
And the things we post have been said by somebody involved in the
2:09:21
production or comes from three separate sources, just as the
2:09:24
research on our podcast does. So we'll give that a look.
2:09:27
You can find us on YouTube at youtube.com/all the Right movies
2:09:31
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2:09:41
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2:09:45
right movies.com, Yeah. It's a full day there and.
2:09:52
Occasionally our Twitter threads get fat checked by the director,
2:09:56
which is always fun. Which is nerve wracking.
2:10:04
Alex, if you're listening, we love you work on this.
2:10:09
Well, we're all off now to see if Wesley can invent a robot
2:10:12
with movies like Yoko. I'm halfway there.
2:10:15
I've got the legs. Amazon delivery earlier on it
2:10:20
was, yeah. Thanks for listening though.
2:10:24
And please come back next time for speed, yes.
2:10:27
Come back next time. Thank you for listening guys.
2:10:29
Really, really appreciate it. Thank you.