Latest / Legally Brunette / KILLER THRILLER DOCU: Five Hooters Girls Were Murdered. What Did Hooters Know?

Transcript

KILLER THRILLER DOCU: Five Hooters Girls Were Murdered. What Did Hooters Know? · Legally Brunette

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hi, you guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller docu-edition. Five women,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: five different Hooters restaurants, five lives that ended in murder.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: At first glance, these may look like five separate true
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: crime stories.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Five women living in different places, working at different restaurants,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: each becoming the victim of a different killer. But when
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: you put those cases side by side, there is a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: disturbing question that emerges. What connects them? Today, we're going
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to go inside the Hooters murders, Deadly Shift. And it
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: is a new documentary that examines the lives and murders
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of five women who all worked at Hooters. And we'll
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: talk about who these women were, what happened to them,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the investigations that followed, and why their shared connection became
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the starting point for a much bigger story. So joining
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: us is the show's showrunner, Kevin Brenecke, to take us
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes of the documentary and tell us what
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: he and his team discovered while putting these cases together.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Hi, Kevin.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Hi, Jen. Nice to meet you. Hi.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So nice to meet you. Thank you for joining us.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Killer Thriller. So I obviously watched the Hooter murders.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Whoa. Whoa.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Who knew?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: It's funny because I kept like thinking when they tried
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to rebrand Hooters and go back to the days when
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: it was a family friendly restaurant. I'm like, what the
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: are you talking about? Family friendly. Like I wasn't bringing
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: my little kids to the titty restaurant. I mean, I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: just wasn't, you know, I don't even know, was I
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: missed something? When was it family friendly? Yeah.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: You know, I think that was, uh, that was a,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: a difficult, um, thing to wade into because it is so,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: it's so murky and it's so unclear when you look
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: back at it. And I too, you know, I was
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: in the, in the, the early and mid two thousands,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: you know, I was in high school. I remember, uh,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Hooters being part of the zeitgeist. I remember it on,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: you know, South Park and yeah, in the Adam Sandler movie.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: And, you know, and people, my peers were dressing up
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: like Hooters Girls for Halloween, right? It was very, very
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: much just sort of like, iconic, sort of kitschy American brand.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: And me just personally, I, you know, I never thought
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: of it. And I know I can answer for my
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: parents to where, never thought of it as a family restaurant.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: You know, we would be going to Applebee's as a family. Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: We'd be going to Hooters, right? And so, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: and I know some of that is personal taste and
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: some people did treat it as a neighborhood family restaurant.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I think Hooters in part branded themselves that way. And
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: then obviously other parts branded themselves by way of Hootery Girlz.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: After anyone who watches this documentary is not going to
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: feel so warm and fuzzy and family friendly about Hooters.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't know about this.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much you knew before you did
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the documentary, but I had no idea that there were
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: five women from five different Hooters stores, as they call them,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: which I also didn't really understand, but stores that were murdered.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that ahead of watching the documentary. When
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: did you realize that?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that either until actually I met with
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: IPC and met with Versant, you know, Oxygen to learn
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: a bit about the story and, you know, to see
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: if the project was a good fit between us. And
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: I was shocked to hear that too. And, you know,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I was more shocked once we started, you know, I
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: came on the project and started researching and realized just
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: how different all of the cases were. I was sort
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: of expecting to find, you know, one unifying central thread.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: And then as we started researching more and talking to,
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: you know, the families, the friends of the victims, journalists
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: who covered the cases, you know, law enforcement, that they
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: were so different. And they really sort of touched on
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: different dynamics, not only, you know, within Hooters and for
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: employees of Hooters, but, you know, as a culture. and
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: how Hooters girls were sort of viewed by potential perpetrators
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: out there. And, you know, they all sort of, you know,
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: touch on something very different. And that's part of what
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: really drew me to this project.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, the part of the documentary that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: really was the whole thing was interesting. But, you know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of true crime. I watch a
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: lot of true crime. And they're all interesting, but I
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: felt like what was the most compelling in terms of
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: the Hooters documentary was Hooters itself and their reaction to
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: what was happening. And not just their reaction to the murders,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: but even in terms of the way that they treated
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: their employees, the contracts that were signed.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: That was what was so hard to believe. And the
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: murders are crazy.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: They were awful and they were violent and they were just,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: you know, and I see, I do again, I mean,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I have a true crime doc pod, but I do
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: see a lot of that, but I really, what was
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: the most compelling and disturbing part of this for me
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: is the lack of responsibility that Hooters to this day
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: has taken.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: And I don't.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Know how they've gotten away with that. And maybe that's,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: maybe this is it. Maybe this is their come to
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Jesus moment.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Um, but I'm interested in what you think and how
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: they were managing, how they managed for all these years.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: To make girls sign contracts saying that.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: They agree to wear, you know, the revealing clothing and
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to talk in a flirtatious manner. How did they get
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: away with that? I guess it was a different time. But,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: you know, Hooters has been around a long time.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think you definitely hit on it there.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: It was a different time. And obviously that's something we
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: touch on briefly in the documentary that, you know, this
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: was post the Me Too movement. It was post this
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: sort of, you know, social enlightening movement that happened way
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: too late in our country's history, but happened nonetheless. And,
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: you know, this was 10, 15 years before that. And
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: that was certainly, I'd say, the most eye-opening aspect of
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: this entire project for the whole team was reading, you know,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: the Hooters handbook, the contracts, the acknowledgements that the employees
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: were signing, the terminology and verbiage and general defense that
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: Hooters defense team, you know, was using in their defense
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: on several cases. And, you know, I think there's a
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: great article that was written by Jaya Saxena, who is
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: a subject in our interview. And I, you know, I
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: implore everybody who's interested in this to read it, because
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: as she, you know, I think so eloquently said in
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: her writing was that it seems when you look at
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: the totality of Hooters history back then that, you know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: there was sort of this, they operated in this space
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: of plausible deniability. And I think that was, you know,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: that was accurate, particularly for that time period.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Tell us, will you tell our listeners just what, be
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a little specific here, by plausible deniability, you mean?
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: By plausible deniability, meaning, you know, if they sort of,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: publicly stayed out of something and they didn't acknowledge what
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: was happening inside of the stores when it comes to
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: harassment or assault, and in these cases, murder, that it
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: would be something they never have to confront and therefore change.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Because if they have to make a drastic change to
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: fix those issues, then it means that it strips the
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: company of essentially their entire identity, which is the booters girl. And,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: you know, and I think that's something that, you know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: an argument that Jaya made in her article and something
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: we touch on briefly in the documentary that, you know,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: if we had more time would have explored more. But
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: we also, you know, we didn't want to, we wanted
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: to let this documentary be led by the participants' opinions
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: and reflections and their own personal anecdotes, but also the facts.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: And our point of view is not that Hooters is
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: and has been this nefarious organization forever. I think if
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you look back at that time period, not to take
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: anything away from this, but I think if you look
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: back at the time period, there are probably many corporations
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: that if you looked at their legal defenses and their contracts,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: you'd be like, what? Because that time period, even though
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: it's just 20 years ago, feels like a time capsule
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: to medieval times or something when it comes to women's
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: protections and rights. And so I just hope that this
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: drives a little internal conversation within Hooters because they are
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: ushering in this new era. And I think now in
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: this day and age, post-MeToo, and especially in a world
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: where their employees are more vulnerable than ever in the
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: digital age, uh, that they, that they, they take some
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: time to reflect, you know? So, yeah. Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I, I cannot believe that I live
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: in New Jersey, Northern Jersey and five minute drive on
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: 17 is a big old Hooters. And if I'm, you know,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I'm being honest after watching this, I never have been,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: but I can't believe it's still standing and we are,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you know, in 2026 and Hooters is still around. I
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: know they, they, bankruptcy, but they are still operating. And
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: it's hard for me to imagine who is on the
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: executive board now. And these girls that you highlighted that
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: were interviewed, and one of them was anonymous at the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: beginning and so scared of hooters and corporate that as
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: she was touching her hands, it was very powerful, I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: thought it was, and kind of picking at.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Her nails and shaking.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: You know, there's like this fear of this corporate conglomerate
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and what they can do, which is so scary. And obviously,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you know, that still exists. And you talked also, you
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: hit on a lot about how the girls were so
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: young and working for Hooters felt so glamorous, right? And
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, and I don't know why
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that was either. Maybe you can explain that a little
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: bit more, but how they thought that working for Hooters
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: was a stepping stone.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they thought if Hooters represented.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: It as that, like if you come and work for us,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: you are going to have opportunities in TV and film.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, can you speak on that a little?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And that was actually a larger part of
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: the story at, you know, rough cut stage that we
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: chose to sort of whittle down, shape down a little
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: bit to make more room for the individual stories, which
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: just feel more impactful on a personal level. But, yeah, Hooters,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: especially that time period, it's interesting because it was sort
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: of this juxtaposition between, you know, culture, a lot of
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: American culture sort of viewing Hooters girls with this sort
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: of stigma. And then, you know, the other side of
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: it was many people viewed it as a jumping off
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: point or an opportunity, a place where they could go
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: start a career. And particularly for young women, because, you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: there are many celebrities who actually got their start at
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Hooters as Hooters.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: You know, Chrissy Teigen has come out and talked about it.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Amy Adams has come out.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah. Amy Adams?
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I think of her as like Cinderella. I'm like, yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: I know. And a lot of these women like Tara, who,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: you know, was a participant in our documentary, you know,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: she started at Hooters as a Hooters girl, got noticed,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: you know, because that was early 2000s when these things
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: still happen all the time where she got noticed by
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: somebody eating at Hooters who, you know, was involved in photography.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: She took some model shots, you know, she sent them
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: out and suddenly she's on multiple covers of International Playboy.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: You know, she's a working model now. She's going to
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: all the pageants. And that opened up a lot of
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: doors for her. And so I think, you know, many
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: young women were going to the Hooters workforce for that specifically.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: And not to say that all of our victims were,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, all the victims covered in the documentary,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: many of them weren't looking for that at all.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, of course.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I think about Prisma, who was trying to, you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: just make money and help get her husband, you know,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: to our country. But it's funny you say Tanya because
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking now of the other Tanya who also was
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: told by her murderer that, you know, that he just
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: wanted to take pictures at the beginning, if I remember correctly.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Isn't that true?
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Right? And lured her and murdered her ultimately.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: But how vulnerable these young women must have been if
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: they were, in fact, looking for that big break, that opportunity. Right?
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: That's right. And I think that was part of like perpetrators,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: a potential perpetrator like Christopher Haynes in the Tony Hillerud story. Sorry,
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Tina Foster. That was Tina Foster. And, you know, he
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: understood that some of the women coming to work at
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Hooters had greater aspirations to be in front of the camera.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: And that is what he weaponized. And that's what he
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: preyed upon. And so he went to a different Hooters location,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: you know, he talked to multiple employees about doing model
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: shots there. And then very tragically, you know, he set
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: up that time with Tina Foster to take some photos.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: And that's when he murdered her. And it's just completely
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: awful and devastating. And, you know, I think that was
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: definitely an underlying theme between the cases was that, you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: when the perpetrator they knew the vulnerabilities that these women
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: may have had for holding that position.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I want to know why there are not just this
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: young woman who was anonymous and just was afraid that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: she would be found out by Hooters, but also there
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: was an anonymous young man, I don't know if he's young,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: but a man who had worked at Hooters and did
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: not want to be seen either. Tell me what the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: concern is there that Hooters is so scary just as
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a conglomerate.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: What is, what are these people so scared of?
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that that touches
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: on a general fear in our country right now, not
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: to get too, too, yeah, too evil about it, but
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, we're just in a massive power imbalance. Right.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: And so I think a lot of people felt like,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: and I, and I, I believe, the, the subject on, yeah,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: it was, it was, um, sorry, I'm trying to remember
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: which one, but actually they, they both shared whether on
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: or off camera that they did fear the repercussions of
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Hooters and not even that they worked there anymore. But, um,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: you know, I think they don't want to put themselves in,
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: in a, in a potential, you know, position that could
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: that could harm them in any way financially.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Hooters, after I watched the documentary, Hooters is a scary place.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: When you guys talked about, I don't remember who was
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: referring to the team meeting, where the manager said, listen,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: if you could make a little extra money giving him
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: a BJ, I don't know.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Exactly what, my jaw dropped open.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: It's okay with us if you know, you want to
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: make a little extra on the side. I can't, it
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: was hard for me to fathom that that was a
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: team meeting and what really was going on there.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea since all of this? I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: know that Hooters is not, I haven't, I never heard
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: them talk about this. And truly, I never even knew
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that all of these women, these Hooters employees had been.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Murdered until I watched.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: And I know they have tried to rebrand Do you
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: think now, what kind of contracts are these women signing?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Is it different? Is it, I would think now after this,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: it's going to be, but it hasn't been.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think so too. And we were able
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: to get a fairly recent copy of the Hooters handbook.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: I believe it was from 2020, but don't quote me
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: on that. And it was very, very similar to the
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: handbook that we see from the 2000s. Now, you know,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: post re-hooterization as Hooters is calling it. Re-hooterization, right.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: That's what it's called. Yeah.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: And so it's possible that they have new paperwork. We
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: were not able to get our hands on a present copy.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: And in fact, you know, sort of tying to the
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: last question, we were going to interview somebody who currently
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: works at Hooters who has a very large social media
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: following and posts about Hooters quite a bit. And she
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: shared things with Kate Taylor, you know, via text message.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: um that you know seemed to align with some of
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: the themes that we touched on in in the doc
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: um and then she decided to she backed out of
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: the interview um the day before um because she had
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: spoken to store managers and you know i don't want
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: to i don't want to imply that there's something you
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: know incredibly nefarious there they don't know if they can
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: trust us as documentarians we've only So, you know, not
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: harboring an ill will there. But, you know, we were very,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: very curious to see, you know, are they signing the
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: same acknowledgments? You know, are there more, you know, heavily
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: enforced policies about after shifts, you know, walking to your car?
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, are there those little things that,
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: you know, you sort of expect to corporations or institutions
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: in this day and age, you know, to, to, yeah.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought about, it was also powerful to me.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Um, I believe it was Tanya.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Nope. Maybe it was, I don't, I don't remember.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, anyway, there was a moment where one of the victims, um,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: you know, these, these girls were so young and you
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: talked about how, uh, an email was asked for, right?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And I want to say it was.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Alyssa. Yeah. Alyssa Blanton.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Alyssa.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And who was killed by Roger Troy and how she was,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: she didn't want to be rude. Right. So he's asking
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: for her email. She didn't want to be rude. Now
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that is a very young person way of thinking, you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I can absolutely see my own, you know, 24 year old,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: year old daughter, just wanting to be nice. I, I've
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: warned her many times that I don't want her to
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: be so nice, but that's besides the point. But at
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that age, at a young age like that, that Hooters
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: didn't have those policies set up. You are not allowed
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to give out your email. There weren't maybe cell phones
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: back then, but still, do not. No personal information is.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: To be exchanged.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: To teach them that, because they were young and afraid
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: of being rude. And, you know, that that really struck out,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: stuck out, excuse me, to me that there was they
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: took no time to really have these girls understand what
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: they were selling.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that that that was another very eye
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: opening thing when we started to to really start to
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: talk to people involved in the cases. I guess I
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: went into it expecting that these would be a bit more.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: outlier type events that happened.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: And, and as we talked to, I mean, we, we
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: talked to a handful of people that were working, you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: with Alyssa Blanton to include the anonymous interview and, and Tara. Right. And,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: you know, what we heard from so many of them
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: was that, you know, it was, it almost felt like
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: the opposite, right. Instead of, you know, of a strict
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: protocol on like, don't give out your personal information. Like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: You know, you can use a fake name on your tag.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: You can do this, do that. A lot of them
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: expressed feelings that there was sort of more of an
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: underlying pressure of really getting to know your customer base
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: on a more personal level.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: That was in the contracts, right?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, that said, part of your job is to,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact wording, but, you know, it
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't just be nice.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: To really engage.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: To really engage.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And I don't think that's something that, you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Hooters would deny. I think it's part of the charm
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: of Hooters and what they offer as a restaurant, you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: per their own marketing is to come and have sort
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: of that experience where, you know, your waitress may sit
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: with you and have a conversation with you. And it's
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: not just a, here's your, what's your order, here's your
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: food type service. And so, you know, it is sort
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: of baked into the model a little bit. And I
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: think where it then, you know, sort of crosses into
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: a place that became dangerous for the victims involved in
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: our documentary is that, you know, that can sort of
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: be confused and confusing to somebody like Roger Troy, who
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: may be a perpetrator lying in wait, you know, or
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: who may be susceptible. And we actually, we did, we
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: interviewed a really, it was a fascinating interview and ultimately, Um,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: it didn't make the documentary because, you know, we, we have,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: we had a two hour and, and needed to really
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: pack a lot in. Um, but we interviewed an FBI,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: a former FBI agent, um, and forensic psychologist. And, um,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: you know, she sort of, she talked about how that
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: type of, you know, employee customer interaction, um, over time
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: can really build a fantasy in the mind of somebody
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: like Roger Troy, who really is, look, he's searching for something.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: There's a void to fill, right? And so he started
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: to go to Hooters to fill that void. And when
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Alyssa was just so kind to him and so nice
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: to him and attentive to him, it allowed him to
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: really create this fantasy. And when that punctured is when
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: it all unraveled.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: There's so many moments that were so shocking, but when,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and I don't remember the manager's name, called corporate about
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that Roger was carrying a gun and was
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: dismissed like that. And it wasn't the first time, right?
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: That corporate had been called on this freak and just
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: so heartbreaking. And I cannot believe that there has been no, nothing,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: no liability. Is there any case pending? Is there anybody
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: who's nothing? Do you find that, do you find that
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a little.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Shocking or no?
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: I was, I was shocked to hear that so many
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: years later, you know, 16 years later. And, you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: my first thought internally was like, Oh my gosh, I
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: wonder if the family knew that. And I don't believe
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: they did at the time. And so, you know, that,
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: I have my own opinion on and, um, it, it
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: is incredibly, it was incredibly tragic to learn that. And then,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: you know, when Kate got on the phone with, um,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: with that former manager and he told the whole story,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, our job was sort of on the floor,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: you know, it's not illegal in that state to carry
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: a firearm into a restaurant. And I think that is
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: the position. It was sort of a binary position that
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: was taken. Um, when a lot more context.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Um, But it wasn't just that, as we know, but
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: there was a lot more going on. There were a
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: lot of people seeing that he was creepy and calling
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that in, right?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know, right?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I believe another manager, it wasn't the first time that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: corporate was called on this guy. And I think that Kate,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: when she was talking to this anonymous manager who wanted
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to be anonymous, she said to him, which was interesting,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: how long did it take you? You email them, how
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: long did it take corporate to get back to you?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And it took seconds. So in other words, in my mind,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: that means that they were already keyed into this, right?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: That they knew who, they had heard this guy's name
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: before and they wanted this dismissed, right?
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: We don't want any trouble here kind of thing.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And that feels like they have some sort of, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: they played some sort of part in this. They have
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: to be culpable somehow, but I mean, I don't know,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not a judge, but the story that you told, right,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: this documentary, I don't know what you were trying to
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: necessarily elicit from your viewers, but it made me really angry.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: And it makes me feel like these deaths have, I don't,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: it's just, there's no justice here. And I mean, we
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: talked about, there were, who were the two that went, Prisma,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: that sweet, beautiful Prisma and her sweet sister. That was
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: so sad and heartbreaking. And the way she described her
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: house is just quiet. Now, all of that was so horrible,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: but Um, so there was, I guess, you know, Gregory
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Hoover and Ricky Freeman, one was sentenced to death.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: One was sentenced to life in prison.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Right. So there's some justice there, but there were, you know, who,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: who was the victim and the murderer was, has still
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: not been found.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Was that Carrie Ann?
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Carrie Ann Williams.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Found next to a dumpster shot in the head and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: wrapped in plastic, still in her uniform.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And the murderer was never found.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And the fact that there's, nowhere to
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: go for justice, right? And I don't know if Hooters
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: had played a big role in that particular murder. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that they are responsible.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: For murderers, right?
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: No, of course not.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I'm really not trying to say that, but there's something there.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Obviously you guys made it very evident that there's some irresponsibility.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Let's call it that at best.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: And, and they had never been taken to task for. Yeah.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, we, we, for me, for many,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: you know, ethical reasons, legal reasons, creative reasons. It's like,
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: we didn't want this to formulate a clear opinion that
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: was pointing any fingers. But we wanted to present the
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: anecdotes and facts. And, you know, the fact of the
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: matter is with Alyssa Blanton's story, as you mentioned, I mean,
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: there was a compounding sense there where you really start
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: to feel something and ask questions. Because, you know, on
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: top of the anonymous former manager, you know, Tara then
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: sharing the story about how the very next day, like,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: you know, according to her and many others that worked there,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: there wasn't an emphasis on the tragedy that just took
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: place of one of their former employees. And there wasn't
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: an offer for grief counseling. There was just kind of
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: a business as usual attitude and a hard emphasis on
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: you know, make sure we don't talk to any media.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Plausible deniability. Right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Right. And so, you know, and so those are, those
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: are the stories that were shared, the experiences that were
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: shared and the facts were shared. And, you know, you
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: can sort of draw your own conclusion and, but it does,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: it sounds like you felt all the right emotions because
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: we felt the same way when we were having these
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: conversations in the interview.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Even Kevin, like watching how Prisma had to walk through
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: that one parking lot to get to the employee parking
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: lot in the dark.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: What's going on here? How, how is that? And I don't,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I'm listening.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: You're in Vegas and I'm sure lots of employees walk
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: through parking lots. Right.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: But it was Hooters, the casino. I don't know. It just,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: it felt really negligent to me.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: That was, you know, cause we, we went there for
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: a few days to do some sit down interviews. And
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I was right behind the camera walking that path right
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: behind that shot. And I'll just tell you, as a
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: 38-year-old man, not an 18-year-old, 19-year-old, woman who is young
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: woman hasn't hasn't experienced life hardly yet and doesn't really
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: know what to look out for. You know, I was
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: I felt off being there. And so I can't even imagine.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Did you see if their employees are now being walked?
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Well, that location doesn't exist anymore as it used to.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: So yeah, the Matt Onion doesn't exist anymore, which is
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: where Prisma worked inside of the Hooters casino. So it's
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: all different now.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Are Hooters girls being walked out to their cars? Is
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: there more of that? Do you know?
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: It sounds like it's a similar, at least from the
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: conversations we've had with women that are currently working at Hooters,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: It sounds like it's a fairly similar policy where it
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: is a policy. It is discussed in training. But from
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: what we've heard, it's still sort of a gray area
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: in terms of how much it's enforced. And also, it
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: just really depends on the location, too, because we I'll
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: just say this. We've talked to, you know, dozens of
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: past and present Hooters girls that work at locations that
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: have nothing but amazing things to say. about management, about
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: their experience there, about their customer base, about feeling safe.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And so I do think part of this is location-based too.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: But it also stems, you know, it of course is
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: all under an umbrella policy.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: But how many of those girls know that there were
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: five young women in 10 years?
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Five young women, and they're taking these jobs.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: In 10 years, five Hooters girls were brutally murdered. I mean,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: that's not been common knowledge, my friend. And I think
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: it's really good work that you've done here. And I'm not, again,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that women, young women are murdered all
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the time. They work at all different restaurants, but five
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and 10 years feels like a lot.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And what you guys uncovered here is scary.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important information for anybody who wants
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: to work, you know, for Hooters to have, even if it's,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: a great location and, and, you know, they've never had
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: anything like this happen.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: There is something.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And then I, when you guys talked about how, I
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: don't know if this is still true, but the new
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: in the rebranding, the universe, the uniforms are smaller.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Is that true?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Like, I remember, I don't know who, what was the
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: name of that woman who held up the tops and said,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: and the bathing suit or the bonds are now like
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: bathing suit bottoms or something.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So that was, there, there are numerous videos on,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: on Tik TOK that shared when that happened because I,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: there was a bit of sort of an internal, you know,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say uproar, but people were sharing
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: when that happened. People were sharing on TikTok saying, look
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: what I have to wear now. That was in, I believe, 2019.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: And so it was before the bankruptcy and re-hooterization.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: We just cannot call it a re-hooterization. I can't bear it.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I just can't bear it. I mean, I can't like,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: that's like, that's like a verb.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I can't.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: The re-hooterization.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: It's sort of, perfectly Hooters, um, in a way, but
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: they have restored the uniforms to what they were, you know,
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: in the eighties with sort of like the beach beach shorts. Um,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I forget what they call them, but, um, you know, they're,
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: they're certainly, they've, they've tweaked their image a little bit.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: And I think, um, you know, marketing themselves a bit differently.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: And I, I just hope that, uh, you know, they're
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: able to, to look at this and, and, um, if needed,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: you know, reflect and, um, potentially make some, some, uh, changes,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: you know, that can make their employees feel a little
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: bit more, um, you know, a little bit more safe.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: So now there's also, um, and this is my, my
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: favorite part of having a true crime podcast is watching
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: something so horrible and then watching resiliency. And I mean,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: obviously I wish the horrible things obviously did not happen,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: but I'm amazed at how resilient, uh, victims and family
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: members can be. And in this case, because the last
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: pot I did had to do with stalking and that
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: there were new stalking laws put into place.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Was it after Prisma?
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: After Alyssa Blanton.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: After Alyssa.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's so hard to find anything good in
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: any of this, but there's something about that that I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: think is great. Have you seen, have there been other
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: tightening of laws. It was specific to the state, right?
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: In Florida, yeah. So we actually spoke with the senator
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: who drafted that bill and helped it pass into law,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Senator Simmons. And yeah, you know, he shared with us
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: that since that was passed, they estimate that like you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: a thousand women have, um, have avoided, you know, violent
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: conflict perpetrator per year. Wow.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: With these new laws, a woman can within 24 hours
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: after there's a complaint, there is a restraining order in place.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Is that, am I saying, is that right?
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's a, it's a different way of handling
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: and processing injunction, injunction or restraining order applications. So unfortunately
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: when Alyssa, you know, was, was filling out our application,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: not only at that point in time, which you not
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: really have had help and direction on how to fill
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: it out and how to check the boxes. Um, but
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: it would have taken longer and ultimately resulted, um, you know,
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: in having to appear and all these things. So what
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: they passed made it so that a temporary restraining order,
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: like during review, can be more easily and immediately attained.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: So that way you have it in place while they're
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: reviewing and they may say, okay, this isn't actually needed
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: and let's drop this restraining order. Or if it is
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: a dangerous situation, then they uphold it. And so kind
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: of Shockingly, that wasn't really the process back when Alyssa
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: was going through it. And so, you know, the anonymous
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: interview subject that we talked to, she had her own
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: personal experience with it. And because of those new laws,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: you know, and was immediately able to get a temporary
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: restraining order.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's, you know, that's what we hope for
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: when terrible things happen. You know, somehow good can come
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: out of it. How are these families doing?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: And I don't know.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I know I feel like Prisma's sister was in terms
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: of family members, the one that we got to know
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the most, um, how did, how did the people that
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you spoke to and how they feel about the documentary, um,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: are they nervous, you know, for it to come out and,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: and have they watched it?
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: How are they reacting?
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Um, Denise, so nobody's seen the entirety of, of the documentary, um,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Prisma sister, Denise, you know, I think, you know, I
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: think she's, She's a bit nervous, but the only reason
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: she agreed to participate because she had, she had, you know,
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: denied many other documentaries before this.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: She did.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Wait, have there been other documentaries that wanted to focus
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: on this?
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: No, no, no other documentaries have focused on this story,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: but they have tried. So people have reached out to,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: and I think it's Prisma specifically, other true crime shows,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: you know, they have reached out to.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: But not about Hooters, just about Prisma.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: And she's turned down many. And, um, I think, you know,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: after a lot of communication with her and really explaining
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: our perspective, I think she, you know, really grew to
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: trust us with Prisma's story and trust us to find
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: the balance between, you know, making an impact and really
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: showing the viewers, um, you know, the gravity of the
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: situation that her and her family went through without being gratuitous. And, um,
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: So I'm sure she's a bit nervous for it to
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: come out. I'm curious if she will watch it. But
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: either way, she wanted to tell the story because she
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: does want Prisma's story to be used in some way
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: to make a positive change. And so I really commend
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: her for that because it was not easy for her.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: It's not easy for anybody.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: It's not easy to, I would think, get the trust
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: of family members of victims like these. I know that
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: also just from you know, doing, watching documentaries and talking
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to people like you, that it's hard to earn that trust, right?
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: You seem to have done that really beautifully because she
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: was so open and it's, you know, these are real people.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I think with crime documentary, it's, there's, people are so
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: obsessed now, right? And they consume it as entertainment. And listen,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I'm one of those people, I consume it and it
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: can be fascinating. And then the part where these are
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: real people, right? And this actually happened. This is not
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: a film.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: This is not a movie. This happened.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: And so to see that relationship and she talked about
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: her family and the cousins and the aunts and uncles
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and how they gathered together and had the rosary and
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: All of that, when I watch documentary, then I feel
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: like I, a little bit, like new Prisma.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: A little bit, you know, and like you get that.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: So along with all of this that you did, you know,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: showing us what's going on and what has gone on
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: within Hooters. I, I appreciate when I feel like I
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: can actually learn a little bit about the victim.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't know, obviously I'm never going to feel what,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Prisma's sister feels or anything close to that, but at
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: least be thinking of Prisma in that way, you know, and,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: and hearing about a little bit about who she was.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: I think it's, I think it's so important because like
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: you said, true crime is a massive genre now, and
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: there are so many, you know, true crime fans. Um,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: it is, it has really crossed over into the world
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: of pure entertainment in so many viewers eyes. And, um,
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: And therefore you don't always get sort of a personal connection,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: but also viewers sometimes forget that these victims are humans,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: just like their brothers and sisters and moms and dads
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: and neighbors. And so I think, you know, pulling that personality,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: that humanity out to me as a filmmaker is like
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: the single most important thing. And I wish we could
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: have done that with Alyssa in the same way that
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: we were able to with Prisma. you know, obviously we
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: had a couple of participants really speak to who Alyssa was. Um,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: and we had plenty of off conversations where we, where
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: we really got to know her better. Um, but ultimately,
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: you know, I could never fault a family or a
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: friend from not wanting to participate. It's so hard.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: But you did do a good job of that in
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: terms of Alyssa.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, her coworkers spoke very highly of her and
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: how kind she was and, you know, even the pictures that,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: that you showed. It was, I don't know, it's nice
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: for me as someone who does consume a lot of this.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I like to at least be able to look at
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: the person and look at their eyes and know a
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: little bit about them. And they're not just some, you know,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: floating character in some story, right?
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: So I thought you guys did a great job of that.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: And I know, yeah, it is hard. I've learned to
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: get family members to even want to talk about it, right?
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: People don't want to open that up. That cannot be easy, right?
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: No.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: So hard for you.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: So you've been doing this for a while. What are you,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: are you working on something now? Are you just sort
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of immersed in, you know, in Hooters and the stock?
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we, we finished this up a little bit ago
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: and it'll be airing on actually just in a couple
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: of weeks here on September 7th. And so I am
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: sort of exploring what project will be next for me.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: How many years did you work on this?
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: I began working on this last fall. So yeah, it's
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: about eight months or so it took. And yeah, it
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: was a very, it was an intense project and a
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: surprising project. And each one of these sort of, you know,
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: you really get immersed in it for a while.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: But this is your genre, you do strictly true crime?
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Not strictly true crime. I've kind of, It's true crime investigative.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: You know, I've done some other series. Actually, the last
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: series I did for Oxygen, which is on Peacock, it's
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: called Death Row Confidential. And that was really interesting. It
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: wasn't as much of a documentary special sort of, you know,
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: close ended like this one is. It was a very
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: active verite investigation series. um, of a private detective, you know,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: who had inside information about a serial killer in, uh, in, um,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: a penitentiary in California. And for 10 years he wrote
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: down notes about, and it was such a wild experience
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: because we were inside police departments. We were in touch
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: with the FBI. I mean, it became a real active investigation,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: you know, so each project is really different. Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But that's why I'm asking you that because I, I
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: guess I want to know, so now that you've well,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe you're just starting, right? Because now is
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: time to answer all the questions and do all the PR,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: but sort of leaving a project like this, what made it,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: what makes it stand out? I mean, for me, after
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: watching it, it is the irresponsibility of Hooters. It is
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the lack of accountability. That's how I'm walking away from
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: this in shock. And in really, I'm serious. I kind
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: of disbelieve. I can't believe that I didn't know about
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: any of this. you're walking away from this, how it's
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: different for you than maybe other projects that you've worked on?
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I would say, I would say it's different, you know,
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: for those reasons too, where you're not, you're not telling
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: a story about a victim or, you know, an event
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: or an investigation alone. And there is a bit more of,
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: a deeper and more universal layer to it and foundation
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: to it. And that really made it stand out. Um,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: and I do think that is probably the thing that
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: most people are going to walk away from this with, um,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: you know, and I just hope that again, just hope
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: that it's sort of can act as a mirror for, for,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: for everybody. Um, you know, and, and, and not, not
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: just Hooters, not just culture, but also, um, any individual watching, um,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: who may have a daughter, um, who may have a sister,
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: a friend to check in with them because Alyssa Blanton
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: didn't share any of that that was happening with anybody. And,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: you know, and she sort of was silently enduring this, um,
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: along with her husband and her best friend at the
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: time that was it. And, you know, and I think
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of it, she kept private, um, and, and ultimately, um,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: you know, that was, that was a part of the
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: tragedy of it. And so I just hope people walk
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: away from this and think, you know, are, is my daughter,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: my friend, um, you know, my sister, are they feeling safe?
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: I hope so too, but I think you did a
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: great job.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Congratulations. Yeah.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Appreciate it. I really appreciate you talking to us.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on and, uh,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: great to meet you. Okay.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Good luck. Thank you too.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: Bye.