Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / ERP transformed Our Family’s Confidence and Independence (OCD)(Episode 22)
Transcript
- Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc and Stacee: Hi y'all, it's Stacey. And along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. Welcome to episode 22. We're very excited to still be here with you all. And as you all know by now, this is the podcast that talks all things OCD and ERP related. And tonight we're gonna be talking about a lot of different pieces and bits that Mark and I have been thinking about over these last few days that really does fit into the framework of what we like to talk about here on this podcast. The unhid the hidden parts of O C D kind of Yes. Definitely the hidden parts of O C D or the things that you experience as someone who has O C D that you didn't realize was O C D, both mental and physical and kind of everything in between. So you want to start it off with? Yeah. So I mean, one of the things we really want to do to on on this episode is is to really thank everyone who's out there listening to us. We're so humbled. We're so thankful to have this community. it's so invigorating to us to be a part of the community so that we can put OCD on the map, so to speak, in terms of of giving it a voice and sharing what it is and what it isn't and and really being able to try to help those out there who have it and those who have loved ones who have OCD. And it's just such a a really beautiful thing to to see this community really together spreading the word of what OCD means to them and what they want the world to know about OCD. And I mean in the podcast world in on s on social media, wherever you look, there are people out there who are trying to be champions. Yeah. Be champions of OCD, be educators of OCD, and really let people know what an incredible struggle it really can be for those of us who really do have symptoms of it. You know, and we have people, you know, when we first started this, you know, we just we didn't know where it would go or how far it would reach and and now we're realizing that this is reaching, you know, all around the world. which is is exciting for us and we appreciate, you know, if you live in another country that you're listening and supporting our our podcast and hopefully some of this stuff resonates with you that we've been talking about. Yeah, absolutely. You know, if you do live in another country, you know, we'd be more than happy to have you on the show too as well. You know, you don't just have to live in the United States and you know, it culturally sometimes there's probably a negative connotation for you know, if you have O C D might not be something you talk about as a family or you know, might not be supported for treatment or whatever, but you suffer with O C D But just know that there's a community out there that does support you if you do have that. If you are stu suffering from O C D and Absolutely. There's a very big community out there and we're so blessed to be a part of that now and excited to be sharing our journey and what O C D has done to our family, but also what ERP has meant to our family and really what we have been able to accomplish in this in this last couple of years. 'Cause I know our life is vastly different now that we've been through a big chunk of ERP. Yes. You know, and it's not something that you just give up and stop doing. We we have to keep training that mental muscle that you have and keeping it strong. And that's where you and I I think works well. We're we do it together. Absolutely. Yes. You know, you're honest with me and I, you know, look for different ways that it could be, or I don't reassure you. You know, if you're looking for reassurance and and whatever, you know, I I try to stay strong to that. So, you know, and that I think that's helped us with our relationship, with our kids, with family members, with just e people we even interact on the streets. Yeah. You know, you you walk away with more confidence than questions. Yes. Definitely my surge of confidence is something I recognize pretty much on a daily basis now. And the opportunity to live uncertain, as we like to say. And I think that's such a huge concept for me because it's not been something I've ever been able to do before. And I've never been able to kind of live without fear or live without panic. And although those things are still a part of my life, I don't they're not They don't define me anymore and they don't control every move and every decision that I make any longer. And I think throughout the episodes of this podcast, we've talked a lot about what that has meant and what that looks like for our family now. And even now that I know that I'm more aware that I have done the the work or a lot of the work, I'm still discovering things that perhaps I do that I didn't realize were OCD or that I have done in the past or that have happened in the past. That I didn't realize were necessarily linked to my OCD. And of course, as a member of this OCD community, but also as someone who's always seeking information and answers and and support, et cetera, you know, I've been both Mark and I have been looking at a lot of different things. We've been listening to pod other podcasts. We've been, you know, going down different paths of social media and other accounts that people have on social media that are also getting the message across about OCD. And it is incredibly fascinating and so interesting to hear what they have to say and to listen to what their struggles might be and how that it makes me feel not so alone. And that's what we're hoping to achieve with this podcast is to help some of our listeners out there not feel so alone. And and it means that we all have to kind of come together as a community. One of the things that I did know from fairly early on after I got my diagnosis is how long people generally have weight between their symptoms starting and receiving treatment or receiving therapy. And I know for a fact that that I fit in that category. And I'm definitely one of those that had the symptomology from many, many years prior. In fact, my diagnosis didn't come through yep until thirty years actually, because I was in my forties when I was diagnosed. I was in my teens when I can first remember some of those symptomologies starting to come through. Some of that needing things to be just right or getting reassurance, those kinds of pieces of of what my O C D is. I knew about I knew those were happening to me as early as about fifteen. So it really did take quite some time for me to identify to be identified as having O C D and then going back and realizing all of those things that I would do that were actually a part of O C D and I didn't realize it at the time. I think too one of the things that's more unique about our our podcast too, a lot of the other people out there that have podcasts are mental health professionals too. Sure. You know, and they they do share their, you know, other people's stories and so on and so forth. But we're coming from it from a couple's perspective without you know, you've got a master's degree, I've got a master's degree, but they're not in mental health. Right. You know, but we both work with people, you know. adjacent to that that we do piece, but it's not our main career. you know, so we bring a different lens to to this piece of O C D. Absolutely. Yes, we do. And and we bring the lens of of a spouse's perspective too, which I think is so invaluable to the help that someone with O C D needs in their in their corner in order to make the change and to heal. And you've been willing to make those changes too. There are people out there with OCD that don't want to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I finally got to the place where I I recognized I didn't want to let this continue to define me or to rule my life. And and so I I made the commitment to myself. I made the commitment to you, to our therapist or family, that I was going to do it, regardless of how uncomfortable I might feel with it or how challenging it was. And it is still challenging. I still have moments where I want to give up or I don't want to do it if it's a particular exposure. And I just am fighting the urge I want to have that compulsion make me feel better. Knowing that on the other side of it, it's really only going to make me feel worse and it's only going to perpetuate the anxiety, the panic, the intrusive thoughts, et cetera, et cetera, that have To do with OCD. And I think now you're working more on the the micro OCD pieces. Yes, because I feel like we like we've talked about before, I've really tackled the the big pieces and then kind of went from a through a hierarchy from there. and so now I find myself just needing to go back a little bit and doing some exposures to some of even some of the bigger pieces just to make sure that I'm Keep it in check. Keeping on keeping it in check. And I'm reminding myself why I'm doing this and I'm reminding myself how I feel being on the other side of of such Intense O C D symptomology. But it's interesting to me when I hear other people speak or I see w things that they've written or or whatnot that that's more in line to what they experience. And it's so nice that I'm not that I don't have to feel so alone anymore. And so one of the big pieces for me, and we've talked about this on other previous episodes too, is driving. Driving was something that I never thought that I would really be able to do because as far as I can remember, I've had intense anxiety and intrusive thoughts around being behind the wheel. And there are certain aspects of it that come up and I never realized that other people with OCD were perhaps dealing with the same thing. And I I saw it written somewhere that, you know, these things if you these things could occur if you have OCD when other people might not think a thing about it. And it i when you stop and you pause and you think about that for a moment, it really is so interesting to dive into because I know for me and for Mark that things that I think are are a very big deal or things that I think are are a huge obstacle in my way are things that I know you, babe, would not give seconds about it a second thought to. and the the idea that you don't give give that extra thought to it or that doesn't affect you. It's such a foreign concept to me because obviously as we know, we're so wired differently when we have O C D. but for example, specific to my driving, I had two things But there was more, but two in particular that made me so uncomfortable that I didn't want to be behind the wheel, which was if a police officer, police car, was driving behind me for any amount of time, for any reason, I would just spiral into such a panic and I would start checking. I would start checking in my rear view mirror to the point where I was actually looking behind me more than I was looking forward. Which obviously becomes a safety hazard as well when you're on the road. And that would make me feel nervous as well. And I would have to keep checking. And you and you might be going the speed limit. yes. No, I'm not breaking any traffic laws. I'm not, I'm, you know, doing what I need to be doing very safely, very carefully. But even so, just having that police car behind me. Now I know some other people might be, yeah, they take note of it, but they're not spiraling, they're not looping into a panic attack about it or into intrusive thoughts about it that lead to the need for a compulsion. In my case, physically checking and looking to see if they're still behind me and where are they and how close are they or how far away are they? And I would be doing that to ad nauseum until I felt like it was just right. Or they would turn off or they turn off. And then it was like, okay. Well now they're not behind me anymore. But the other one Well and and I will I will piggyback on that like myself. Yeah, when a police officer pulls up behind me too, you know, I'm always wondering like, well, d was I speeding and you know 'cause sometimes I am and I just hope I'm not getting a speeding ticket. But you I mean, you're a really good driver and you don't, you know, break the traffic laws and stuff. And so I could see where that's really difficult. Where myself like, okay, am I getting pulled over because I was going five or ten miles an hour over the speed limit? Right. But then you kind of acknowledge or or clock the idea that he's behind you or she's behind you, and then you keep on driving. Yeah. And it and it Where for me it became And the fear of it dissipates pretty quickly because the lights don't turn on. Yeah. And for me, that fear doesn't dissipate. It just gets stronger and stronger. And I'm literally checking constantly. And the other piece that I have done in the past would be that if I passed someone on the sidewalk, whether they were dri whether they were walking, whether they were riding a bike or a scooter or something, if I passed them and they were on the sidewalk and I was on the road, I would have to check my mirrors again until I couldn't see them anymore. or until it felt just right for me. So I was constantly clocking behind me again to make sure that I hadn't hit them or that they were still alive because maybe they they're dead now. I mean, there's a lot of things that would go through my mind and it would also impact again, my nervousness for just driving because now I'm looking behind me instead of forward. And I can just think about it early on when I was first trying to drive. learning how to drive in my teens, my early twenties. And then there was a time frame in my life, which Mark is very well versed into, that I essentially stopped driving for many, many years. And I am now just back behind the wheel again and feeling more confident and more comfortable than I ever have. But I really have to keep myself accountable, checking when I'm in the car because Mark's not always there. And Even though I'm driving our daughter Avery around a lot of the time, she's not necessarily in that zone with me where she's watching what I'm doing. so I have to really commit to myself that I'm not gonna that I'm not gonna look, that I'm not gonna check to make sure that they're still there on the sidewalk or to make sure is that police officer still behind me? And can I just let it be and not feel that anxiety? And I and I will say this, you do it. You probably don't realize it. You do it even when you're a passenger. Because there's a lot of times when we're driving by somebody or they're at the sidewalk or you know, if they're at a crosswalk or something, like, do you see that person? yeah. You you ask me if I've seen that person when I have. Sure. You know, or did you see that person on the bike? Did you mean you ask me that and I will say frequently? I will say I have had to fight the urge to not ask multiple times before. Because even when you've said yes, I see them, if I don't think that you're doing exactly something that feels just right to me, then I'll have to I I have to I think about it and it it gets in there and it loops. And then I may have to ask you again. So like just even doing this episode, you know, w talking about this type of stuff, like these are not no normal conversations that Stacey and I have at home or, you know, on a day to day about driving and checking and and that type of thing. So now as we're driving around and she now is a passenger and asked me those questions, you know, I I know that it's probably coming from an OCD angle than just a, you know, concerned passenger type of thing. And and now I know in my back in my brain, I've got to lock that up and say, You know, I'm not sure or who are you talking about? You know, to maybe bring your you know, anxiety up. Yeah. Yeah. To practice the ERP on those small things. Sure. You know, and that's where like us doing this podcast, things like that come out that we I would not have thought about. Well, yeah. And I never even thought about the idea that I became so consumed, for example, with a police officer behind me or with people walking on the sidewalk and checking. I I never really even thought about that being OCD. I just knew I was uncomfortable in those situations and then therefore I'm uncomfortable and don't feel safe driving. Because what if I hit someone? What if I what if I hit a person? What if I hit a car? What if I like it's always this uncertain discomfort? Ew, I can't sit in that. And so again, it just became an easy out to not drive anymore. And then I really missed out on a lot of things. And my independence. got smaller and a lot smaller. Yeah. And and in the early days for us, you know, we always for me, I was like, we're saving money. We don't now need to take care of two cars. You know, we don't need to pay for gas. We don't need to pay for car insurance. We know there's a lot of we we I was looking at it from a benefit standpoint. Right. But not really realizing why you didn't want to drive versus just I don't like to drive. Because there's a lot of people out there that just don't like driving. Sure. But you didn't want to drive because of a lot of different reasons. Mm-hmm. So we went down to one car for a good fifteen years. I was gonna say more than a decade. Until you were actually recently diagnosed when you had to, you know, start actually driving and yep, doing that part of your ERP. And then, you know, now we finally have two vehicles. But I know and I love driving. Like I still have to catch myself, not I have to be honest with myself, don't check or you know, you know what's gonna I guess I still have to keep myself accountable. But I love driving and I'm very comfortable behind the wheel now, where I never ever thought. If you would have asked me ten years ago, even five years ago, if I would have been behind the wheel again, I would have said never. If if you would have asked me even three years ago, yeah, would you drive on the freeway? Mm-hmm. Long distance for a couple hours, I would say absolutely not. But now I have. Now you have. Woohoo. Which is good. It is good. And now I feel my I feel that independence coming back. I feel the confidence coming back with it. I feel that I'm now supporting my spouse with driving because he had because Mark had to take on so much. of the responsibility of of driving our children around, driving me around. It you know, and again, we've talked about this in previous episodes and how my lack of driving did affect Well and and right now because you are driving our marriage and our family. Yeah, right now because you are driving, it's actually opened up more opportunities for our kids too. Like Avery want wanted to go to a different school that's not her n Homeschooled where a bus would pick her up and bring her to school, type of thing for high school. If you weren't driving, she wouldn't be able to go. That would not be an option. I know. Now, if we found somebody that she could carpool with, that still would not have been an option because your O C D would have not allowed that to happen. Right. So going through that ERP and everything, that that has allowed her to be able to attend a different school. A because you're driving, you can pick her up until she starts driving, you know, where you're away from that. Yep. Which is scary. Yes, it is. You know, so once that happens, then you know, until that happens, you gotta pick her up. I can drop her off because it works with my schedule. Right. No, it's I I again it has opened up so much for for me personally, for our family. And I never thought that I'd be able to do it. And yet here I am, and I'm doing it. And there's so much of that that I see either on social media or listening to other podcasts, and I'll hear somebody say something or see it. And I'll think, my gosh, wow, I never thought about that. Even though I've been in this journey for the amount of time we've been in it, it is so fascinating how I'm still learning, even about myself. Like some of the Physical symptomology of OCD. Stomach issues, headaches, dizziness, chest pain, these are all things that I have learned could be as a result of your OCD because the panic and the anxiety sets in. And some of those pieces I've been dealing with for years and years and never attributed it to anything like OCD. But I can see now, for example, Chest pain. I have that. And I do notice that it comes on when I start to panic or when I start to have anxiety. And I always just thought, as most people would, it's it's a heart issue, it's a medical issue. my goodness, not thinking that it is actually my OCD that is causing some physical symptoms of something like chest pain because of the panic that's setting in, or that that feeling of discomfort that's just so overwhelming and it's coming out in that regard. Amazing with the brain colour. And I would have never attributed that to O C D. But now as I think about it, I do. I just think that there's so much more that we can learn and more opportunity to support one another in this community overall. And I'm just I know I've said that word, I've said that phrase a lot in this episode so far, but it really is so important that we keep talking about it, that we keep sharing our own journeys with it. We keep doing education around OCD and we share that education with others, especially with those that don't have OCD exactly, because there is this idea that, well, yes. And again, another concept that we've talked about in previous episodes, but I I have O C D. yeah, I I'm a little O C D as well. And then when they talk or give an example perhaps about what they think O C D is and what we really know what OCD is and how exhausting and how debilitating it can be, it's challenging. And so it's important for us to get that education out there. And a lot of how we do that is through talking about our own experiences. And it's and it's amazing how sometimes When peop you talk about having like I I recognize this when you're talking to people and you're like, no, I O C D and they're like, I do too. And because there's one little thing that they feel like they do that's O C D but it's really not. It's just, you know, personality traits sometimes. Well, it's and yeah, but but they they kind of turn their ears off. They don't really want to listen to really what it is because they feel like they know it. Right. And that's those are the hard people to get through. Right. And to educate. Yes. And you know, there's sometimes you, you know, you really have to share the story to where they're like, okay, this is Exactly. It it's funny when when I hear like when I share the story with people versus you sharing the story with people. It's amazing how people respond to me differently than you. Ooh, interesting. Because I'm not the sufferer and I'm not saying I have it. I say my wife has it. Right. And I can then go it can go into the educational piece versus you saying I have it and like, I do too. You know, they want to I feel like they want to relate to you. I get it, yes. But the but trying to relate often then is very What's the word I want to use? Kind of off putting. It well, it is off putting, but it's it's very disrespectful. Let's just say it that way. And I don't mean that people are intentionally disrespecting me when they'll say, I have a little O C D two or no, I have O C D two. It's just a matter of they don't really know. And that's why it's so misunderstood. And that's why it's so important that we come together, all of us, in any facet we can to talk. And to share and to educate. And I know, again, I keep repeating that too, but I cannot express how important that becomes in this side of mental health as it relates to obsessive-compulsive disorder, which many people misunderstand. And then I think I think Mark's right, and I I think you are right, babe, that I get that a lot where I'll say, I was diagnosed with OCD, and then someone will say, I have OCD too. And then immediately they are just explaining to me how their OCD or what they think it is, or you know, I need my folders all in the same order, or I need, you know, all those paper clips put away in that same jar or things like that. And it's so hard for me now to listen to that because my own self knows that I want to be kind to that person. And so I want to, okay, well. And then I get very shy about telling about myself. Or, and I've mentioned this in a previous episode as well, or they don't ask. Mm-hmm. They don't ask about me. They don't ask about what my symptomology is. They don't ask how long I've had it. They don't ask anything. And it's hard to And so then I feel stuck. after they don't ask. Right. You know They just automatically assume, I like all my pencils the same direction. So that must be what you're talking about too. And it's like, no, that's not what I'm talking about. And so I think people need to ask questions. You know, and if you if you are out there and you wanna share your journey too, that that's it's really important to get your voice out. And that's that's one thing I think you and I have really come to terms with or or realized that this has been very helpful to share our story, our journey with with people and and people you don't know. I mean, that's very vulnerable when you do that. Like the our podcast is circulating around the world and and and we have shared the deepest and darkest of where we were and where we are now and we have really peeled back the layers of all of that rawness. I don't know if that's a word. Yeah. It is now. And well and I and I think that, you know, sharing your story can can feel very v very vulnerable. Vulnerable. Yeah. But but when you do it, I think sometimes you feel a little bit of freedom. It does. It does feel freeing. It does feel like you're contributing to the healing of your own self and your family and friends and those who who love you. Yeah. And then other people are out there can relate. Yes. And it makes it makes what we're doing too the most authentic that we can be. We are offering our most authentic selves out there with this and I'm just very And I'm grateful that we're doing this together. Me too. Every episode is us doing this together. And I'm grateful that you and I get to sit down, you know, every week and and talk about this. And you know, when we first started this, I'm like, my goodness, you know, how are we gonna continue this podcast? You know, I can see this, you know, us getting to like two or three or four episodes and we're gonna run out of yeah. Stuff to talk about and you know, and there's some op episodes. I think, you know, we probably do ramble a little bit, like right now, we're probably rambling a little bit, but you know, every week we we find something in our life that it's like, yeah, I do realize that. Or this is something we should talk about. And, you know, we we pencil it down and then when we sit down, these these are just this is the idea that I have for this week and let's roll with it. And we go with it. Yep. You know, and That's just kind of how we live our life. Yeah. It's also how we maintain that that authenticity too is that we are still going through this day by day, week by week. I still have O C D today, just as I had it two years ago, just as I started having it when I was fifteen. And I'll have it again in another ten years. Yeah. And things come up in our life and situations come up and you're still helping me work through some exposures and we're still coming up with exposures. Yeah, like the driving thing and you asking me I see somebody. Right. Can't respond to that anymore because I just reassured your O C D. Let's not get crazy. I think that And that that's the hard part about the spousing is not picking up what could be OCD versus just regular conversation. Right, which is also how we came up with with our therapist in s in some ways. In other ways it was kind of a bridge to help me lessen the urge to check in and to gain reassurance. Is that we developed the the passes, right? Yep. Yeah. So each week I would get X number of passes and I would cash those in and say, okay, I need a pass. Yeah, I forgot about that. So let's let's let's explain that a little bit. So okay. When we first started the ERP with with Stacy, we gave her a number of times that that she could say I need this. I'm using a pass. I'm using a card. You know, you see at three a week and then he took it down to one a week. And now we're at zero a week. And and some every maybe maybe one a month type of thing you you get. But but it would be like, okay, I'm using a card on this one because I really need 'cause that anxiety was peaking so h heavily that I knew it was the next step was the panic attack. Yeah. And again, we've talked about time and place for exposures, time and place for ERP, time and place for a panic attack to occur. And in the moments where it's not ideal. I would literally say to Mark, Okay, I'm cashing in one of my passes. I need this reassurance. But she only had three. And if she got to the three, there were no more for that week. No. He was very stingy about that too, let me say. You know, and but you you made you also think about is this something that I really need to need to actually use a pass on or By the way, I'm already past my anxiety. One hundred percent. It it made your brain switch to one hundred percent. And I that would and the other part of that, which is so good, is that I would have and we talked about this, especially when we were in the in the in business ownership phase of our life, and I was calling you pretty incessantly throughout the day. And then as we started to go through therapy and and I was getting was applying some of the ERP, et cetera, I would start to say to myself, is this something I need to talk to Mark about right now? Is this something I need to ask Mark about? Is this something that Mark needs to know about right now? Like I would think to myself and they would say, no. So let's just sit in that discomfort or let's let the panic flow, get that anxiety down on its own, and you're going to be okay. And I and I will tell you this, For the person that does not have OCD and you're at work and you're not getting the phone calls, that was a very weird feeling. Like I would I think myself, my nervous system was anticipating you calling me. And I would, you know, you you had to call me two or three or four or ten times a day during my Yes. My work day. And I was anticipating that. And then all of a sudden you took that away. Mm-hmm. You know, and I I kind of went through a little withdrawal, you know? I I agree with you because you were so in that time frame, especially when we were running the business and I was calling so much to get to check in with you to get reassurance, you were constantly feeding into that, right? You were giving me that reassurance. And so we were just restarting that cycle of. OCD, which we now know we have to interrupt in order to get better. But you were feeding that OCD without even knowing it. Without even knowing it. Giving you that drug. Yes. Give I was getting what I was needing so that anxiety would go away quicker. And it just made it like it would come back tenfold. And then tenfold again. And we didn't realize that what we were doing or how you were operating in that moment. was not what I needed in order to get on the other side. And now the phone calls are very different. Yeah. Like I I can when I answer the phone though in your your voice tone, I can usually tell when it's looking for a check-in. Uh-huh. Versus a let's have a conversation. Okay. Well that's good to know. You know, like But like even today with Avery wanting to go to the store to get some hair dye and stuff, it was check-in-ish. Not check-in-ish. No. I'm gonna disagree with that one. Well, I I it it felt like check-in. Like, hey, is it okay if I tell her my back hurts and I don't want to go? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on a second. see, this is where we get to the real meat of some things. No, I didn't feel like it was a check-in. I felt like it was a true moment of saying, hey, my I'm down with my back. I can't necessarily drive her this time. I may need you to take her. Yeah. And for me, that was a win because I thought, my gosh, I'm not checking in with him. It's that I could drive her, but right now, because my back's out a little bit, I can't necessarily want to. Yeah. And for safety reasons. I more than anything. Yeah. Cause I can't really move very well. But then like That's how I felt about it a little bit. And you interested didn't feel like it is and stuff. And so this is where you and I have these conversations about what was a check in, what's not a check in, why did I feel like it was a check in? Why it's a conversation for us now. Yes. And that's the hard part in the phase that we're at with the ERP. Uhhuh. Because we're at the I kind of feel like the tail end. Yeah. O of It being at the forefront of our my mind all the time and your mind all the time and even our kids. Yeah. You know, it it's starting to dim a little bit. We still have to keep it there because we don't want to slip back. Right. But then that's where you and I are trying to figure out what are the real conversations versus the check ins. Check ins or ERP needing and so on and so forth. And we're getting there. Yeah. We're getting a lot better. Yes. So Yes, we do. I want to thank everybody for listening tonight. Me too, a hundred percent. And hey, everyone will be listening to this on July 16th. So we want to give a shout out to our sister-in-law Sarah. Happiest birthday to you. And again, thank you for always listening and for living uncertain with us and so proud to be part of this this whole community of those of us with OCD and those who love someone with OCD. So until next time, everyone, thank you so much. Bye bye. Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.