Latest / Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD / Autism 1 to 1 Teacher Interview TAW PODCAST

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Autism 1 to 1 Teacher Interview TAW PODCAST · Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD

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  You have arrived. Welcome to the ASPY world.
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  Here's where we talk about anything and everything ASD in
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  an upbeat and informative way. And now here's your man on the
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  spectrum, your autism Ambassador, Daniel Morgan Jones.
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  Guys, welcome back to another episode of the Aspy World
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  podcast. It's really good.
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  I'm enjoying this season so far. I've had some really good guests
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  on and I think all my guests have been women, I think for the
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  for this. Yeah, I know this whole season
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  swimming. So I have another guest for me
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  today, Jenny. So Jenny, do you want to take it
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  away and tell us who you are and what you do and all that stuff
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  so we know who you are? All right.
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  Hi, Dan. Thank you for having me.
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  I'm Jenny Sandler and I am a teacher, basically, but I have
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  evolved. I have a company called
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  Homeschool UK and I specifically support children who are
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  autistic, dyslexic and or have a DHDI help them by teaching them
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  one to one. I have consultations with their
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  parents and their schools explaining the best way for them
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  to learn or the best way to manage the home environment or
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  the school environment. I give training to schools and I
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  spend my time working with some fantastically creative and
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  beautiful children, and so I love my child.
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  Oh, that's amazing. So how long have you been doing
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  this for? I have been working like this
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  for about 13 or 14 years. Before that, I was a traditional
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  teacher in a classroom. Holy smokes.
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  And so is it a lot different to, like, you know, schooling
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  traditionally in a classroom versus schooling kind of 1 to
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  one? Like is it completely different
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  or is it very similar, you just got a different tag audience?
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  I think that there are similarities and differences.
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  A lot of classroom teaching is classroom management and making
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  sure everyone is doing what they're supposed to be doing and
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  rewarding and consequences, and also trying to deliver a
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  particular lesson that in a way that everyone can understand.
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  When you work one-on-one, you generally don't have any
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  behavioral challenges and you can you can teach exactly what
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  that child needs to learn and you can teach them in exactly
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  the way that they need to be taught.
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  Which often, if you are dyslexic or autistic or have ADHD is
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  slightly different to the way mainstream teaching is is
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  undertaken in the classroom. But one of the things that I do
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  is that I I explained to the schools and teachers what they
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  can do to adapt the way they teach so that it is suitable for
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  anyone who's neuro divergent. And I think that's really,
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  really hard. We have in our head as teachers,
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  you know, there's differentiation.
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  So you make something easier, you make something harder, but
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  actually you can adapt the way you teach so that it's just
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  really inclusive, that using specific techniques that might
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  work best for someone who's dyslexic.
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  But just because you're using that technique, it doesn't mean
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  that anyone who's not dyslexic isn't going to still learn from
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  that. So a really really, really
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  simple example I often give is you can enlarge the font
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  dyslexic children, and a lot of neurodivergent children and
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  adults prefer to have the fonts made bigger.
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  The space is enlarged. Now just because you don't need
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  larger font, it doesn't mean that it's detrimental to your
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  learning by having larger font. So things like that, ways that
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  teachers can support the children who they know have
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  learning differences, but also by teaching this way you're
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  going to pick up, you're going to be accommodating and
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  supporting children who may have something going on and you don't
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  even know. And at least this way,
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  everyone's getting a fairly good education.
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  Interesting. You mentioned behavioural
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  challenges and I'd like to touch on this.
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  You know, would you say that teaching learning type equals or
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  has a direct correlation to behavioural issues?
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  Because you said when you're one-on-one with kids you don't
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  really have behavioural issues, right.
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  So that would mean that because the environment that they're in
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  in a typical school would mean that that's triggering A
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  behaviour. Is that what you mean?
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  Well, definitely that's, that's part of it.
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  So if you're in, let's just talk about the environment for a
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  moment and not even address the the cognition and learning and
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  the teaching. If you're in an environment that
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  is not conducive to your best learning because it's too loud
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  or because it's too distracting, and I mean even talk about like
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  classroom clutter, visual clutter, So there's lots of
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  things on the wall or the all the supplies.
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  So, for example, all the math manipulatives, the math toys
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  that teachers have, if they're visible, that's going to
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  distract, potentially distract someone, and instead of focusing
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  on what you need to be focusing on, you're actually looking at
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  something else. Or if other children are noisy,
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  or if there are smells, or if the lights are all wrong.
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  So all of that can cause someone who is experiencing sensory
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  difficulties in that environment to behave in a way that is is
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  perhaps not desirable, and it's not because they're being
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  naughty or they're mucking around.
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  It's because all does not feel well within them and that's
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  their that behaviour is is communicating that all does not
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  feel well. Then if we shift to the the the
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  learning methods, if you need an adaptation, so if you need the
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  bigger font, for example, or if you find that the teachers
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  delivered an A lesson, they've explained something but you've
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  forgotten what they've said because you have working memory
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  challenges, then of course you're going to act out in a way
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  because you're bored or you're frustrated and so if, which is
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  why I don't I don't have that one-on-one because it doesn't
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  understanding something they we can go through it.
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  I can explain in a different way.
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  So yeah, so definitely certain adaptations to the classroom
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  environment and the way that lessons are delivered could
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  improve behavior without having to use specific behavioral
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  management systems. Interesting.
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  OK. So in terms of the the, the
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  schooling model, here's the thing, you know, I think like
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  because you're coming from a background of actual just
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  teaching and education and then going into more specifics,
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  right. So I I always feel like the the
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  school system is very archaic. Like it's very old.
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  The the way the way schools are set up was designed to create
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  individuals ready for factory working.
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  That was the Isabel Kingdom and now you know, boom.
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  And and it hasn't changed since. You know, like do you feel like
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  this has a detrimental impact on people, especially with
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  cognitive ability that is divergent.
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  So you have like kids. Kids on the Spectrum may not as
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  be interested in say, let's say, sports, right, Playing football
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  or whatever, but they might be more interested in doing things
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  like, I don't know, planting trees or cultivating, you know,
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  food or, you know, I don't know. Do you feel like this the the
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  school system needs radical change?
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  Or is it just me being kind of like this center left weirdo?
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  No, I I think it needs change. I'm not sure I would go as as
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  far as the same radical, because I do believe that there are some
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  things that are useful for all of us to learn.
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  And for example, you you, you've said sports, you gave sports as
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  an example of something that an autistic person might not like,
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  or for that matter, any person might not like.
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  But I think we can all agree that having exercise is
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  important learning math, as much as someone might not like it or
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  say it's irrelevant because we can do everything on a
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  calculator we all I I mean I hope we all agree that having a
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  a foundation in math is is important.
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  So I I agree that that schools are not they're not designed for
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  the type of learners that we have and I don't think they're
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  designed for sort of the the society that we're living in
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  right now with work you know with all this technology and and
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  AI and working remotely, working collaboratively but in different
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  ways. I.
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  So I do think that that things need to change and shift and I
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  think they are as well because if if I look at how my children
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  are taught in school compared to how I was taught, it's not the
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  same as as it was in the in the 80s and 90s.
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  So things are shifting, just perhaps not in the way that we
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  need them to. And I and I also think that
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  there are are schools that are being really innovative and
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  certainly some independent schools that have the, the
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  resources, the financial resources are able to give a a
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  significantly broader area of subjects that children can get
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  stuck into. Yeah, I I think you're right.
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  You know, like that. Yeah, you have those ridiculous
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  arguments. So you're like, hey, nobody is
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  algebra or an actual factory is algebra every day, but people
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  don't really realize it. But I think, you know, there are
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  certain things like, yes, you know, now we're all walking
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  around with a personal digital assistant in our pocket that
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  should be included. You know, it's only going to
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  increase in its in its popularity and it's use.
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  It's like kind of like, you know, I don't know, people would
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  say like, you know, if I spoke about grandfather, he'd say he
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  didn't have shoes to go to school with, you know what I
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  mean? And so now everyone has shoes.
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  Uphill both ways in the snow, right?
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  Yeah, that kind of thing. And I remember in saying to me
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  you paid £0.50 a year to go to school.
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  You know, he was born in 1920 and you know you go to go to
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  school barefoot because you can't afford to shoot.
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  And so you can't say that, oh, we can't teach, you know, from a
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  standpoint of having your cell phones with us because not
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  everyone's going to have a digital assistant.
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  Well, they will, you know, they do now kids.
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  And it's just like shoes. It was a it was a technology at
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  the time that was becoming more and more popular, more and more
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  affordable as the things went on.
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  And now we teach kids that we have to have, you know football
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  trainers for for school. We have to have school shoes for
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  school, you know, and and that's not, it's not to do with
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  economics, that's to do with societal change and evolution.
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  So I do think like you say, you know all the things that the
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  technology we're using now is only going to improve.
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  We keep teaching without using those methods to incorporate it
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  in, in a in a large way. I think we are definitely
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  leaving kind of opportunity and and stuff on the table because
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  what happens is you have a school kid who becomes 16 to 18
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  who then has to then relearn all those things if they didn't have
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  that tutoring in school, you know what I mean?
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  But I I think schools are using technology as much as they can
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  and may perhaps sometimes just limited by the number of iPads
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  or Chromebooks that they can afford.
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  Yeah. One thing actually that I do
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  want to to point out that I think schools are doing that's
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  important that we probably didn't have as children is a
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  much greater focus on social and emotional well-being and
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  positive mental health and you know, citizenship and a lot of
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  that which is important, you know, for growing up to be a
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  well-rounded, happy person. And I also think one thing
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  'cause I in my work, I often get very critical of what I see is
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  happening in schools or what, you know, my students report to
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  me and I and I get very kind of defensive and you know, this
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  isn't right. You you deserve better.
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  On the other hand though, I can also see from the school's
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  perspective that first of all, they're not schools are not
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  giving a lot of money. So they are, they are under
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  resourced. They have, but so much
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  responsibility. So when I think about what a
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  school did for me, and possibly for you when we were younger, is
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  the school's job was to educate us.
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  We basically had to be competent in reading, writing, math, bit
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  of science, bit of history. And I'm talking about primary
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  school. I'm not.
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  I'm not. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Just general, yeah.
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  Yeah. But now schools have to make
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  sure that children aren't hungry, children have clothes,
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  children are not depressed, children have access to sports.
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  So probably it's it's it's not the the schools are much more
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  involved with the big picture and that is it's important and
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  it's. It is.
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  And it's important that we're aware of that as well.
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  So you know what? I'm thinking like, take my own
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  children for example, when I'm thinking, oh, why, why aren't
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  they doing this level of math? You know, my child's really
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  capable. She should be doing this math
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  well, actually, they're doing the best they can, but they're
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  giving her a hell of a lot more than just math, you know, with
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  everything else that they provide.
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  I think like and you're absolutely right.
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  You know that old saying of like, you know, it takes a
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  village to raise a child, right. And I think that was comes from
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  the old times where we used to have the churches used to or the
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  clergy used to run the schools. But the clergy came from a
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  charitable point of view. So they would have fed the
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  children. They would have made sure their
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  clothes. They would have made sure that
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  their well-being was located. They'd they'd they'd be the
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  third parent in this kind of like raising of a child.
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  We lost that, you know we lost that over the years because you
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  know things progressed very interesting though and it is a
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  fascinating subject we've talked about for hours but so, so.
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  So with your job now working one to one with kids, what would you
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  say the most common issues that you're you're coming across like
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  what's the thing that keeps cropping up time and time again?
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  You're like this. Every time I go down, this issue
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  is the number one. Is reading I'm I mostly teach
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  children how to read. Holy smokes, Why do you think
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  this is? Well, probably because I have a
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  lot of experience in teaching children how to read and I have
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  a Master Flexia, so therefore people come to me for that.
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  But you know, joking aside, because reading is for many
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  people is is sort of a simple process that you you can learn
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  quite easily. But for a lot of, well, for a
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  few people it's it's not, it's much harder to figure out how to
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  read. And reading is taught in a very
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  specific way in schools and that way does not work for everybody.
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  And one of the things that that I do that I think is really
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  successful is that I create my own books for the children that
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  I'm teaching to read that are of interest to them.
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  So if I'm teaching someone, and it's not just someone who's
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  autistic, it started this way. It started, you know, with me
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  wanting to make sure that the autistic children I was teaching
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  were really interested. So I would always ask in advance
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  what what are your special interests?
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  Or I'd ask the parents what they're interested in, and I
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  would create a book about that interest.
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  But it's really useful for everyone because you need to be
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  engaged. You need to want to do that
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  because a lot of times by the time a child has come to me,
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  they're very switched off. So I need to get in there with
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  what they like and pitch the book at their level and I can
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  select my own vocabulary. And I kind of at first don't
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  really use the the method from school.
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  I just use my method, which is words that I think the child
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  needs to know and wants to know and then have words in the same
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  families. And then once we're kind of
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  happy reading, then I bring back in the phonics and go from both.
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  Angles interesting like so do you think and and this is a just
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  a broader question and and you're probably the best person
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  to ask for this. So I'm dyslexic like super
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  dyslexic like like I wrote my I wrote my book by dictating it to
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  my iPhone whilst on a treadmill. So that's how I did it and my
• 16:08
  handwriting is atrocious. Like you wouldn't.
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  I mean, you wouldn't believe that.
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  My handwriting is just horrendous.
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  I. Don't think mine is.
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  Also, I don't think that's so bad.
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  But it goes to the fact that, like, I have no real dominant
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  hand, right? Right.
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  My left hand is just as bad as writing my right hand.
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  So there's not really my son is exactly the same, but do you So.
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  And the thing that I think is most interesting is I can have
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  my computers read to me, which is exceptionally more efficient
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  because, and let me tell you something interesting, so my
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  brain is going to bazillion miles an hour and when my I
• 16:41
  know. What you're going to say can I
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  guess, guess what you're going to?
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  Say you can guess, but I think you'll be wrong in the
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  second-half. I think you're going to say you.
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  You speed everything up when you listen.
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  That's the first half. I speed everything up.
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  I speed all the videos, speed all my books.
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  We don't want podcast, everything just and I can just
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  digest it at the level my mind is going.
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  When I'm trying to read something I can't read it fast
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  enough because I'm having to really digest the symbols,
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  really look at those symbols, trying to understand it and then
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  I get roadblocked and and it's the first thing you're learning.
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  If you don't understand the spelling and the and if you
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  don't understand what a word is said, then the rest of it loses
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  all context. So there's another thing that's
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  really important with me and and how I visually learn things is
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  symbols and symbols is not reading symbols is recognition
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  of something that identifies like, you know, a stop sign
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  means don't go there. You know what I mean?
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  It doesn't say don't go here because it's dangerous.
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  You just know it because you see the symbols.
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  So would you say that words have less?
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  Reading words has less power now versus like symbols and having
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  things read to you Because if you're a blind person or a
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  person who's partially sighted, you have to have things read to
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  you anyway. Yeah, I think that, well, two
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  things. First of all, I want to just say
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  that we're really lucky that we are living in this age where we
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  are, where you can have audio books and you can have a
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  computer read something to you and you can get these special
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  pens that scan the text and read to you.
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  Because it's transformative and it takes a lot of pressure off
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  and a lot of the the anxiety that comes with learning to read
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  in terms of symbols, there are a group of people most likely.
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  I mean, I don't want to generalize, but often times
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  autistic people and some dyslexic people read better by
• 18:35
  recognizing the symbols that are the words.
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  So instead of being able to piece together the the the
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  letters and the different phonemes that they make, which
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  we call music, you know, reading with phonics, they recognize the
• 18:49
  whole word because the word has a shape.
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  Good look. Yes, and often times people will
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  will learn to read just like that.
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  And what can happen is you start recognizing words as a symbol as
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  a whole, and then you start recognizing pieces of that word
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  or that word in part of another word.
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  And that was actually how people were taught in the 80s.
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  Because that's how that's how I learned to read, yeah.
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  Yeah, and and it shifted, but I'm not saying that that that
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  sight word method is now is now sort of no longer in vogue for
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  reading. But it's not a bad method.
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  Phonics is in vogue and phonics is good.
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  I'm not saying you know children shouldn't learn phonics, but
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  it's a combination. I'd say an average.
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  You need to use a combination of methods.
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  And there are some people who can only learn to read the
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  phonics and some people who can only learn to read with sight
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  words. But what you but what you'll
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  find is is that if you are a a sight word reader if you do sort
• 19:51
  of use that symbol method you'll be able to read words that other
• 19:57
  people may find very difficult because a long complicated word
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  is has a the symbol is brighter. If that makes sense.
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  OK. So you'll you'll be fine reading
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  more complicated words that you've recognized much easier
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  than reading things like then there, this and then.
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  Well, yeah, not just homophones, but words that look similar like
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  they. I have this exact experience, my
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  girlfriend's like, how how can you, how do you read?
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  Like, you know, very complex words, but you're very bad at
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  reading the small ones. And that's exactly why.
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  Because I recognize them as, yeah, they're they're bigger and
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  they stand out and you remember them.
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  If you think of of the you know on ON&NNO like the you know the
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  shortest words in the alphabet kind of thing but they are very
• 20:46
  similar looking so. That's super interesting.
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  I'm not sure I kind of forgot what your original question was,
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  but. I just yeah I I my my question
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  was really really simple. Do you think that symbols and
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  kind of like technology hold more weight to a person's
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  development and learning versus traditional kind of like
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  analogue reading THEATH is and an E is the the the, you know
• 21:12
  what I mean like. So I think that for for children
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  and and adults who struggle with reading, technology is a very
• 21:22
  useful and powerful tool. And to understand, I guess if
• 21:26
  you're if you're a teacher who's younger and his you know, trains
• 21:30
  more recently and was taught to read using the phonics approach
• 21:33
  to recognize that sometimes the older the old fashioned sight
• 21:38
  word or using logographs is also a valid way to support reading.
• 21:46
  And for some children is is the better way.
• 21:49
  Yeah, yeah, I I just found it fascinating because I always
• 21:52
  found workarounds and my workarounds are always kind of
• 21:54
  not traditionally what you what people are using, you know?
• 21:57
  I mean, I'm thinking what works for me and it works really,
• 21:59
  really well, you know, Is this kind of frowned upon?
• 22:01
  I know. Interesting.
• 22:02
  OK, so here's a question. What's the most challenging type
• 22:07
  of of client you come across? What's what's the most
• 22:09
  challenging part like? So, OK, so sometimes I work with
• 22:22
  children who have been asked to leave their school.
• 22:28
  That's how I got started, actually.
• 22:31
  That's how I sort of became his home school teacher.
• 22:34
  I was working with autistic children, mostly autistic, who
• 22:38
  had been asked to leave mainstream school.
• 22:41
  They were in in just they were in independent schools.
• 22:44
  Most, yeah, for the most part, which is a little bit different.
• 22:47
  You know, they an Independent School can ask someone to leave
• 22:49
  much easier than a state school. And because of that whole
• 22:55
  experience, and they've been through a really rough time and
• 22:59
  a lot of negativity and a lot of trauma, I get a lot of pushback
• 23:06
  from these children because everything, it's hard learn,
• 23:11
  learn. You know, if you, if you have
• 23:12
  learning differences, learning can be hard.
• 23:15
  If you've had a really rough time in an educational
• 23:19
  environment, then teachers can be scary.
• 23:23
  So I often have to work through that and I can't just jump in
• 23:30
  and say, right, you know, we're going to do reading and writing.
• 23:32
  And even if I'm have a method that's more appealing to that
• 23:35
  child, I often can't just jump in with that.
• 23:38
  And what I find is that I need to really, really step back and
• 23:43
  give them more support than than I know that they need, just so
• 23:47
  that they can build up their confidence and learn to trust me
• 23:51
  that I'm that I'm not going. To judge.
• 23:54
  Them. Yeah, But.
• 23:55
  But what kind of makes that challenging, and this is
• 23:59
  probably more my own issue, is that when you're hired to do a
• 24:03
  job and you someone's paying you to teach their children, you
• 24:08
  want to do it. You want to get results.
• 24:10
  You want to show them that, you know, I want to show them I'm,
• 24:14
  I'm doing the best I can and your child is learning how to
• 24:16
  read. But and I kind of know, well,
• 24:19
  actually I'm not going to get results right away.
• 24:20
  I have to go really slow so that I often have that sort of
• 24:23
  struggle. But usually parents are very
• 24:26
  understanding, you know, that's in my head, that the pressure's
• 24:28
  from me, not not from them. Interesting.
• 24:33
  So we've we're running out of time.
• 24:35
  But I really want to ask my final kind of question for us.
• 24:38
  You know, how can people get in touch with you and stuff is what
• 24:41
  has been the best experience for you?
• 24:43
  Just you have to pick one experience of your job working
• 24:45
  one to one with kids. What's been the best experience?
• 24:47
  Has there been one time you're like, wow, this has blown me
• 24:48
  away and you've come home all emotional and really happy.
• 24:51
  Like, has that ever happened? Yeah, I mean, a lot of the time
• 24:55
  I don't think there's been one. I mean, if there has been a
• 24:58
  moment that really stood out, I I can't remember it right now
• 25:02
  because I'm old and getting forgetful, but I'm old.
• 25:08
  Well, at the same age, aren't we?
• 25:09
  You just call me old. Well, yeah, I did.
• 25:11
  I did. Well, I can speak for myself
• 25:15
  that that I'm getting a little bit forgetful, but I just when I
• 25:21
  see children that they're doing something that they couldn't do
• 25:24
  before they're reading, that they're able to do the math that
• 25:28
  that they have a bounce in there in their step, you know, like
• 25:31
  these aha moments. But I also I want to share as as
• 25:38
  well as being a teacher I have an autistic son and I think a
• 25:45
  lot of the like the amazing feelings I get is when I see
• 25:50
  that he's being successful that he's you know he's going on to
• 25:56
  secondary school next year and he's done 11 plus and he's
• 26:00
  doing. He's done really, really well
• 26:02
  and he's put up with a lot of challenges or randomly he's
• 26:07
  injured himself. He ruptured his ACL playing
• 26:09
  football and he's had surgery and he's been off sports.
• 26:13
  He's he can't play football for a year.
• 26:15
  He's not allowed to run and he's a really, really active, busy,
• 26:18
  busy kid and it's so hard and so frustrating and I'm just amazed
• 26:23
  with how he's managing and dealing with it, even if it's
• 26:28
  even if it's hard for him. And so I think I'm sort of
• 26:32
  regularly amazed and blown away by the resilience that children
• 26:39
  have and sort of their their spirit and and how they can get
• 26:43
  on with life, even when it's hard.
• 26:46
  Interesting, no? That's lovely.
• 26:48
  And so So if people want to learn more about you and find
• 26:50
  you online, do you have like an Instagram page or a website?
• 26:52
  Like, how do people get in touch with you?
• 26:54
  So I have a website, itshomeschooluk.com.
• 26:58
  I do have Instagram. I do have LinkedIn.
• 27:01
  I do have Facebook. I'm I'm not great with any of
• 27:05
  those things. OK.
• 27:07
  Well, if you yeah, but the so the best way to get in touch
• 27:09
  with me is on my website and you can reach me through there or
• 27:13
  LinkedIn. OK, cool.
• 27:14
  If you give me a LinkedIn link, I'll put it in the in the
• 27:17
  description of this video. If anybody's wanting to find our
• 27:19
  LinkedIn, awesome. This is a really interesting
• 27:23
  episode and I've never had this conversation before, so thank
• 27:25
  you so much for being on the show, Jenny.
• 27:27
  My pleasure. And thank you for having me.
• 27:29
  It's been fun for me as well. It's been awesome.
• 27:32
  Hey guys, thank you so much for checking out this podcast.
• 27:34
  Make sure you are subscribed because there are people
• 27:36
  listening right now who are not subscribed to this podcast.
• 27:38
  I can see you. Make sure you subscribe.
• 27:41
  OK guys. See you in the next one.
• 27:42
  Peace.