Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 9) (5/7/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 9) (5/7/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna dive right back
• 0:06
  in to the statement given to the OIG inspectors by
• 0:11
  the unnamed lieutenant. Question all right, and it shows redacted
• 0:15
  on it. I'm looking at it upside down, so I
• 0:17
  can't even see. Answer that's what it says. Yeah. Question,
• 0:22
  And on this one, does it show any lieutenant was involved? Answer?
• 0:26
  No question, so it would have just been redacted. Answer yeah,
• 0:30
  question all right, what about the four PM? Does it
• 0:33
  show the lieutenant's name on the four PM? Answer? No question.
• 0:37
  Do you have any idea what redacted's first name is? Answer?
• 0:40
  No question. But this does seem like a bad E
• 0:44
  one Answer E one seems good. But he gets cut
• 0:49
  off even though that no one is listed on R
• 0:52
  and D. Answer yeah, that's what's confusing. Question because you
• 0:56
  say there's a count slip for he gets cut off
• 0:59
  by the lieutenant. This is at nine thirty three. Question
• 1:04
  wasn't that just one that was printed? Because the numbers
• 1:07
  are printed on that. I see what you're saying, So
• 1:10
  after nine thirty three, possibly something changed. Answer, So that
• 1:15
  could be two things. Either the marshall was trying to
• 1:18
  get one in before the count, and they thought they
• 1:20
  had enough time to process them upstairs, and then when
• 1:24
  they call in the count, it's wrong. Like hold on,
• 1:26
  it's not it question, And that's what I mean by
• 1:29
  wouldn't this be incorrect if they get a count slip
• 1:33
  that's not listed on the E one? Answer? Yeah, they
• 1:36
  got which one? Did they get R and D? Yeah?
• 1:39
  That would be a bad one question? All right? So
• 1:42
  for this, it seems like the ten pm on August
• 1:45
  ninth was a bad E one And as far as
• 1:47
  the midnight it seems like it's the count slip that's
• 1:50
  a bad slip. Is that correct? Whatever? That's indiscernible. I'm sorry.
• 1:55
  So it seems like the E one is good at midnight,
• 1:58
  but the count slip is bad at midnight. For za,
• 2:01
  And we're primarily asking you this stuff just because we've
• 2:05
  got to write a report about what we're finding and
• 2:07
  we don't want to sound we don't want to sound
• 2:09
  or want it to be wrong, you know what I mean? Answer? Yeah, yeah,
• 2:13
  So the count slip is wrong on this one question.
• 2:16
  So midnight count slip is wrong. E one seems right,
• 2:20
  the E one at ten pm seems wrong, but the
• 2:22
  count slip seems right at least for R and D.
• 2:26
  We have reason to believe that the count slip for
• 2:28
  Za is also wrong for ten pm, because well, it depends.
• 2:32
  I guess, like you said, what time the individual was
• 2:35
  moved to R and D. We've been told that after
• 2:39
  you know people, or I'll move prior to this time.
• 2:42
  So if that person was in R and D, it
• 2:44
  would have been prior to the ten pm count. Does
• 2:47
  that sound right to you? Answer? That's what I'm saying.
• 2:51
  I mean, something could have happened and you know, taken
• 2:54
  this guy downstairs question, and that's why we need to
• 2:58
  talk to people. So by looking at this, are you
• 3:00
  able to like figure out who we can talk to
• 3:03
  to see if something happened at ten pm to change
• 3:06
  this count? Answer? Did you see the log already? Question
• 3:12
  the lieutenant's log? Answer? Yeah, question do we have it? Yeah?
• 3:15
  I have it? Answer anything with the log question? So yeah,
• 3:20
  So here's the log from the day you were on.
• 3:23
  That's the August it's August tenth, but you know it's
• 3:25
  the August ninth log in there? Are you able to
• 3:28
  tell by looking at that? And here's the day after?
• 3:31
  So this is you've got the August ninth and the
• 3:34
  August tenth. Answer. Okay, so we put someone in a
• 3:38
  dry cell. Question dry cell is in the shoe, isn't it? Answer? Yeah,
• 3:43
  if they're space. Okay, so it looks like they didn't
• 3:46
  key the guy up he went to the dry cell
• 3:48
  depending on what time? Question are you able to tell
• 3:52
  by these lieutenants? I think you've got the actual lieutenant
• 3:55
  log back there. I would assume that that's when it
• 3:57
  would be documented when people are moved. Correct. Are you
• 4:00
  able to tell by looking at that when someone you
• 4:03
  know this person was moved to a dry cell? Answer? Question? Oh,
• 4:08
  and also if you've got that, are you able to
• 4:11
  tell by looking at that when you worked until No? Answer? No,
• 4:17
  I wouldn't have done the log that day from activities.
• 4:20
  Question Yeah, I just didn't know if it was like
• 4:22
  mentioned when people, you know, ops or activities started or stopped. Answer? No,
• 4:29
  it doesn't say when. It just says inmate redacted on
• 4:33
  dry cell. It doesn't say when he went through. Question
• 4:37
  there's no time associated with the movement on there? Question
• 4:40
  should there have been answer? I mean that's good to
• 4:43
  put it in there. Yeah. Question so you said you
• 4:46
  would have associated with the lieutenant's log. Who does the
• 4:50
  lieutenant's log? Answer? Ops would take care of it. Question
• 4:55
  Ops would sew on your shift, it would have been redacted.
• 4:59
  Answer yeah, but redacted is already on dry cell on
• 5:02
  day watch, it says. Question. And that's where we get confused,
• 5:06
  and that's why we have reason to believe, because it
• 5:08
  seems like redacted was put on day watch. Answer at
• 5:13
  three fifteen. Yeah, question does it say three fifteen he
• 5:16
  was placed there? Answer yeah. Question, so that indicates to
• 5:20
  us the four pm and that ten pm count were
• 5:24
  also both bad. He wasn't in the shoe. Does that
• 5:27
  make sense to you? Answer? I think he was. He
• 5:30
  wasn't in the shoe, but he was still keyed in
• 5:33
  the shoe. Question He was still keyed in the shoe,
• 5:37
  but he wasn't there. Answer yeah, question right, So for
• 5:41
  the e ones, they would still show it. The only
• 5:44
  way that people in control would know if is if
• 5:47
  Shoe actually did their account and said we only got
• 5:50
  seventy two people in here, not seventy three, right, because
• 5:54
  people working in the shoe they know, hey, we only
• 5:57
  count bodies that are present. Answer, oh, hold on, this
• 6:01
  is the ninth Okay, so he went to transfer special
• 6:05
  housing Dry Cell four pm. Question at four pm, it says,
• 6:09
  answer on the ninth. This is done on the night before. Okay, okay.
• 6:15
  Question can you and again I promise you not agatcha.
• 6:19
  You're being extremely helpful. Can you just note on there
• 6:23
  where you see things that these different things are if
• 6:26
  you can tell me at what time he was moved? Answer, well,
• 6:30
  this just looks like the log is the same. Question.
• 6:33
  We also have reason to believe that people manipulated the
• 6:36
  log after the fact. Question. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 6:40
  Some things are indiscernible. Question do you know anything about that?
• 6:45
  Well I mentioned that. Answer No, I see shoe corrections
• 6:49
  redacted Dry Cell ra Saturday. Yeah, so I mean that's
• 6:53
  pretty much whatever. I think that the dial was still
• 6:55
  keyed in the shoe question. But as far as are
• 7:00
  you able to did you say that you saw something
• 7:03
  in there that said either three point fifteen or then
• 7:06
  you said four after that? Where are you seeing that? Answer? No,
• 7:12
  it looks like they're saying that the guy was transferred
• 7:15
  back to shoo. But this also says that I was
• 7:18
  I was relieved redacted as day watch ops. Question it
• 7:23
  says you relieved redacted as day watch ops. Answer yeah,
• 7:26
  question instead of redacted I mean redacted? Answer yeah. Question
• 7:30
  is that wrong? Answer? Uh huh? Question Or was it
• 7:34
  that twenty five potential you was redacted was late and
• 7:38
  you relieved her? Answer? I don't know, I'm not sure.
• 7:42
  Question would that be like a possibility? Like can they
• 7:46
  do that even if your activity is lieutenant and she
• 7:48
  wants to leave and you're there and redacted who is
• 7:51
  the ops lieutenant? Wasn't Can they say that you relieved
• 7:55
  her even though you're you were activity as lieutenant? Answer? Hmmm.
• 8:00
  Question or is she not supposed to write that or
• 8:03
  not supposed to be in there? So who wrote that? Answer? Oh,
• 8:07
  I don't know. It could be that's the thing. It
• 8:10
  could be. It's like from a day prior, so if
• 8:13
  you don't catch it, you just got to keep going
• 8:16
  and doing it the same. So it's like because I'm ops,
• 8:19
  I know I'm ops what I'm saying. So I must
• 8:21
  have came in on doing overtime that day, so normally
• 8:24
  I would relieve her. So she probably left it that
• 8:27
  way anyway, thinking Okay, it's the same, You're not changing that,
• 8:31
  you know. Question Oh, you mean the day before you
• 8:35
  were ops? Is that what you were saying? Answer? Yeah,
• 8:38
  I think I was OPS that whole quarter though, I
• 8:40
  think so. Yeah. Question so you were that whole quarter
• 8:43
  you were ops? Answer overtime. Question so overtime was a
• 8:49
  different duty. Answer yeah, Question so you were the ops
• 8:52
  lieutenant up until that day you were activities lieutenant that
• 8:55
  day though? Answer yeah, I think so. Question so, being
• 8:59
  that you were, you were also potentially acting as like
• 9:02
  the obso liuteutenant. Answer uh huh. Question like as in, like,
• 9:07
  since that were your normal duties, would have you also
• 9:11
  taken that on, like, Hey, I know him activities, but
• 9:14
  I'll do the ops role. And this is again just
• 9:17
  to try to help you recollect what you were doing.
• 9:21
  Answer I think I was OPS that quarter though. Question Okay,
• 9:25
  answer yeah I was ops. Question again, we don't have
• 9:29
  your records. There was no reason for us to be
• 9:31
  grabbing your records or anything like that. So everything we're
• 9:34
  asking you about is simply to help us fill in
• 9:37
  the blanks. So based on what you said, you think
• 9:39
  that it's the log is from a previous date. It
• 9:43
  was just despite edit that wasn't caught onto. Answer yeah,
• 9:46
  the dry cell stuff. I don't know about all that,
• 9:50
  but that's what it looks like. It looked like the
• 9:52
  guy was in there and they didn't key him out
• 9:54
  even though he was R and D. Question. So let's
• 10:01
  say if I'm in the shoe and I wanted to
• 10:03
  move somebody, or you wanted to move somebody in the shoe,
• 10:05
  you're going to do you key it in? Or do
• 10:08
  you call it in to somebody and tell them, hey
• 10:10
  key it in? Who keys it in? Answer? You can
• 10:14
  do it yourself if you want to. You can do
• 10:17
  it by yourself. Question. And let's say you move it?
• 10:21
  Is someone supposed to be notified? Hey, listen, this person
• 10:24
  is moved or you the shoe CEOs can move the
• 10:27
  inmates by themselves. Answer someone from a different unit question, Yeah,
• 10:34
  like control or R and D answer? No, you tell
• 10:37
  you call control? Question is a policy that control must
• 10:40
  be notified? Answer? I don't know if it's policy, but
• 10:44
  I mean they take an account. It's good to know. Hey,
• 10:47
  this is what's going on. Got to move this guy
• 10:50
  down to the drive cell. Question and let's say, sorry,
• 10:54
  go ahead. The other investigator jumps in. I was going
• 10:58
  to say, I guess are you asked King like, who
• 11:00
  is responsible for doing the keying? Answer it could be
• 11:04
  CNA question what's CNA answer control number two? Question Okay,
• 11:10
  but control would be responsible for him. It's not OPS
• 11:13
  or the shoe that would have been responsible for indiscernible.
• 11:17
  It's control that's responsible for answer. I mean the shoe
• 11:22
  could make that change though. Question The shoe could answer. Yeah. Question,
• 11:28
  it's not an OPS responsibility or activity answer. I mean,
• 11:32
  if they say, hey, I need this guy in a
• 11:34
  dry cell, you know, okay, you notify them, you know,
• 11:37
  hey move them? Question Okay. I guess though, what we're
• 11:40
  saying is like under the regular practice, I understand that
• 11:43
  other some people have the ability to do it, But
• 11:46
  who should have done it? Answer? Should have moved key
• 11:49
  the inmate from shoe to R and D question Yeah
• 11:54
  answer CNA control question Control should have answer number two yeah.
• 12:00
  Question And how should they have been notified that they
• 12:02
  needed to make that change? Who should have notified them
• 12:05
  that that change needed to be made? Answer? I mean
• 12:10
  shoe could have called ahead. This guy's keyed up here,
• 12:12
  he's keyed down there. Question. So I guess what I'm
• 12:15
  saying is like once an inmate is moved and control
• 12:18
  needs to be notified. Hey, this guy was in shoe,
• 12:21
  now in RNA. Who needs to notify Control to make
• 12:25
  those changes in the system. Answer the shoe, Hey this
• 12:29
  guy is down there. Question so the shoe. Answer they'll
• 12:34
  call control. Yeah. Question Okay. So whenever, let's say, for instance,
• 12:38
  we believe redacted was moved from the shoe to RNA
• 12:41
  on dry cel, the shoe should have contacted Control and
• 12:45
  say we just made this movement, he needs to be rikeyed.
• 12:48
  Answer yeah, question all right, that's the way it works.
• 12:51
  Answer yeah. Question, And again these are just questions we
• 12:55
  don't know. Answer it could have been that, or the
• 12:58
  lieutenant could do it either. Or hey, i'm moving this guy.
• 13:02
  I'm moving them here. Question So, should have a lieutenant
• 13:06
  been involved in that? Answer? Not necessarily? Question okay, And
• 13:11
  that's why we're just trying to figure out what is
• 13:13
  the standard operating procedure, like, what is typically what's supposed
• 13:17
  to happen. Answer, I mean there's no typical you get
• 13:21
  it done. Hey I'm telling you to move him, or
• 13:23
  I say I'm moving this guy. The lieutenant told me
• 13:25
  to move him? And yeah, question I guess, but if
• 13:29
  anybody can do it and no one is told to
• 13:32
  do it. I guess I would assume that would be
• 13:34
  quite frequently not be done because everyone would be like, well,
• 13:38
  he could have done it, he should have done it.
• 13:40
  I'm saying, like, who is actually supposed to do it?
• 13:43
  Who is supposed to take the lead of make sure
• 13:46
  that that's done, or we just move this guy control,
• 13:49
  you know, like key that out, Like how is that
• 13:51
  supposed to be done? Because otherwise it's always going to
• 13:54
  fall apart because then everyone is going to say, well,
• 13:57
  that person could have done it, that person could have
• 14:00
  done it. Answer yeah, question so is there anybody that's
• 14:04
  supposed to do it? Answer to notify question Yeah, to
• 14:08
  make sure the notification to the numbers can be changed
• 14:11
  on the E one Answer Yeah, I would say the
• 14:14
  shoe staff. Question. Shoe staff answer They kind of say, hey,
• 14:19
  this guy is not up there. Check to see where
• 14:21
  he's at. Question all right? Answer maybe keem DR and D.
• 14:27
  Question Sorry, I didn't mean to he gets cut off. No, No,
• 14:30
  that's exactly what I was thinking or trying to get to.
• 14:33
  You said the shoe staff could also key it in.
• 14:35
  If they keyed it in, would this E one document
• 14:38
  get updated or would control have to update it. Answer
• 14:42
  Control updated. Question so no matter even if the shoe
• 14:45
  staff decided if they wanted to update it, Control manually
• 14:49
  has to update the document specifically. Answer yeah, put a
• 14:53
  number on it, because this is the last one that
• 14:55
  was printed, and then you make a change after that,
• 14:59
  it's not going to s show question. Okay, this was
• 15:03
  answer nine thirty. Question nine thirty. But let's see the
• 15:07
  four pm count. I just want to see what time
• 15:10
  that was printed. Answer three forty. And according to that,
• 15:15
  the inmate was supposed to be moved at three fifteen.
• 15:18
  Answer again, no question the daily log. Answer, Well, you
• 15:22
  said two different I was going back to that. You
• 15:25
  said one time you said three fifteen and the other
• 15:27
  time you said four pm. Are you able to tell?
• 15:31
  Question Yeah? It looks like okay, so let's start with this.
• 15:35
  This is the ninth right answer yeah. Question so you
• 15:38
  got nobody starting the shift on dry cell. So this
• 15:40
  is three fifteen. Inmate redacted placed on dry cell from shoe.
• 15:47
  Question can you just put a star next to that?
• 15:49
  All right, so then you believe that this is where
• 15:51
  things got screwed up. They never keep them out? Answer yeah,
• 15:54
  Inmate redacted placed on dry cell. Seventy five and shoe
• 15:57
  I do believe redacted, all right, So at nine on
• 16:01
  August ninth, Friday, he goes in at three fifteen in
• 16:04
  dry cell and he stays in there overnight, so the
• 16:07
  four pm count, he's still keyed in there though, right. Question, Well,
• 16:12
  that's what we're trying to figure out because it's not
• 16:14
  caught until so we believe from people that we talked
• 16:17
  to it was caught at midnight and that person who
• 16:20
  caught it said like, this person is on dry cell,
• 16:23
  and then revise the numbers and the count. Now we're
• 16:26
  trying to determine were the counts ever conducted in the shoe.
• 16:31
  It doesn't appear to us that they would have been,
• 16:33
  because they would have caught that at four pm and
• 16:36
  the ten PM they would have said, this is the
• 16:38
  number of people we physically have present, and even at
• 16:42
  midnight it still says seventy three and it's changes seventy two.
• 16:45
  And to us, it suggests and everyone else that we're
• 16:48
  talking to that we haven't shared this information with many people.
• 16:52
  You're one of the very select few that we're even
• 16:54
  showing this too. But the people that we've showed it
• 16:57
  to before says, Hey, the fact that there were reporting
• 17:00
  seventy three and the actual count to seventy two. They're
• 17:03
  basically getting the number from this and just writing that down.
• 17:07
  They're not actually conducting the counts. Would you agree with
• 17:09
  that statement? Answer? They could do that, or they could
• 17:13
  actually be counting but not counting, making sure that they're
• 17:16
  just walking and making sure they're alive. Question so doing
• 17:20
  more of a round than account Answer yeah, question, and
• 17:23
  that is also one of the things that we believe happened,
• 17:26
  is that at least on one of the instances, they
• 17:29
  did not do the round, but they didn't do an
• 17:31
  actual count. Answer yeah, because honestly, I don't see it
• 17:36
  on this end at four and ten. Question you don't
• 17:39
  see what? Answer the missing of four and ten? Question Yeah,
• 17:44
  and the fact that they missed both seems very unlikely.
• 17:48
  Answer yeah, question if they are actually counting correct answer yeah. Question,
• 17:52
  and that's why we believe and it sounds like you
• 17:55
  agree they didn't actually do the four, the ten or
• 17:58
  the midnight count. Answer No, I mean, I'm thinking they
• 18:01
  did to the four and the ten question even though
• 18:05
  the numbers are wrong. Answer, Yeah, they probably just went
• 18:08
  off the numbers. Question so you think they conducted around
• 18:12
  not account Answer yeah or something. Question I mean, because
• 18:16
  they can't miss the number if they're actually counting numbers,
• 18:19
  both at four or not all, but both at four
• 18:23
  and ten and at midnight, all of the count slips
• 18:25
  are wrong. Answer yeah, but that's when that those indiscernible
• 18:30
  to plus one. It's like they know they got someone.
• 18:32
  But then it's like like maybe they was told he
• 18:35
  gets cut off by the investigator, but they're still using
• 18:38
  the seventy three plus one. It should be seventy two
• 18:41
  plus one if they're doing that. Answer yeah, yeah. Question.
• 18:45
  Unless it was seventy three minus one, then they could
• 18:48
  do it. But seventy three plus one seems to indicate
• 18:51
  that they're using the number that's provided on the E
• 18:53
  one and saying we got you know, one more down there.
• 18:58
  Answer yeah, I don't know what was going on with that.
• 19:01
  That's baffling. All right, we're gonna wrap up right there,
• 19:04
  and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 19:06
  gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
• 19:09
  that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 19:12
  description box.