Latest / Veteran Wellness Podcast / The Invisible Wounds of Service: TBI, PTSD & Brain Health | Dr. Sergio Azzolino
Transcript
- ERIK LAWRENCE: doctor Sergio Azzalino, how the hell are you? Sergio Azzolino: Doing great, Eric. Thank you so ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: much for having me. It's such an honor. ERIK LAWRENCE: well thank you very much. But you know, technical issues aside, we're here. So you know, a lot of people they're like, Hey, where's the old Eric? I'm like, Well you need to talk to Dr. Azzalino. He he might have killed that old bastard off. So I've preached about you and and what you do for a long time, but I need you to tell the rest of the guys, you know, what you've done for me, what you've done for some of the guys and what you can do for them. with our TBIs and our PTSD and all the chemical overloads we have in our bodies, I still think your system cleaned me up immensely better than anybody else. So I'm gonna let you start with, you know, who you are and and how we do this. Sergio Azzolino: Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you and all your brothers and sisters that have served our nation so well. And a day should not go by that you all don't hear that. And unfortunately, I think in in certain times and recent times, that that can be a little overlooked. But certainly heartfelt thank you to all of you because I realize we wouldn't be what we are without you all and the sacrifice you've given. So thank you once again. so My passion, my forte, and really what people from around the world come to see us for, as you know, is brain health and wellness. And that's a big term that's become very popular nowadays. And there's people from all walks of life saying they deal with brain health and and it's good that there's a greater awareness about that. But we've been at this for 31 years, as and we've been serving people at all levels with a variety of different neurologic disorders. And our focus is really what can we do from all fronts from the background of how your brain is firing, how the nutritional environment, how your chemical environment is around your brain, and how you are doing genetically and whatnot. And so in order to do that, I've had to wear many hats over the years, you know. Dating back 35, 36 years ago, I was studying nutrition. Then I looked at structure and function. I got into chiropractic, finished chiropractic school 30 years ago. simultaneously I was working to do my postdoctorate in neurology and completed that under the guidance of Dr. Kerrick, who's really one of the guys that the guy that shouldn't say one of the guys, the guy that put together functional neurology and looking at the brain from a very dynamic perspective. And so I've completed a couple postdoctorate board certifications in neurology. I've completed one in pain management. I am also a fellow in childhood developmental disorders, also no neurochemistry and nutrition. So I have many different board certifications and fellowships. and so much of what we do spans the spectrum of rehabilitation to nutrition to medicine that I also completed a A nurse practitioner degree and license so to have the prescriptive right so that we can get you what you need from you know medicine and peptides and and and just be equipped to serve people at the highest and the fullest level of their needs. So my education doesn't stop. I, you know, being in practice for many, many years, we've seen great changes and miracles, but We weren't documenting things and so I completed a postdoctorate research program at Harvard Medical School just about ten years ago now and started publishing some of the work that we're all doing and it's really opened up the doors because we've been able to put the numbers to the test and we've been able to document objectively and scientifically some of the changes that we're seeing, and I think it's been great because it's opening up a lot of the world's eyes too. what we should be doing and that is looking at the brain as a very dynamic structure. A structure that can and will change for better and for worse. All depends on what you do with it. So here we are. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. No, it's been miraculous the the the education and background you do have that applies to so many of these vet centric issues, but they're really not vet centric, it's just they're concentrated in us, you know. back when when I first went to you I had Lyme, I had T BIs, I had I had the whole gambit, so you had a a free canvas to work on whatever you wanted. but the heavy metal contamination too. I mean all of our guys have that for sure. So just the the comprehensive method that you went through with your your team, was immensely helpful for me and I've tried to push more guys your way. I mean it's just you know people usually don't go until they have to. But no, kinda explained what what all is in the clinic. the clinic's the the the magic I think. Sergio Azzolino: So absolutely. our our brain is a as I said, a dynamic sensory and motor organ that is constantly receiving input from the environment and then in turn having a reflex response, whether it's motor activity, whether it's balance and coordination, whether it's a thought or w whatever it might be. And so we start with a very comprehensive neurologic assessment, testing all your sensory nerves. with pinwheel, with vibration, with joint position sense, checking to see if you sense everything on your body appropriately, which gives us a window as how all these sensory nerves are transmitting into the brain. We look at all the different motor activity that you have, your balance, your coordination. We can measure right down to the millisecond your s sway velocity. We can measure your reaction time with your hand-eye reaction time, your coordination. We can measure your eye reaction time right down to the millisecond the speed of your Movements with your eyes to the millisecond, the reflex movements, what we call your latency. We can measure your accuracy to the degree, which is extremely important for all of you all that are, you know, behind a firearm on a regular basis. And we can test all these different pathways in the brain, from cognition to memory to your vestibular system, how it's responding to movement in the environment. And the idea is this very comprehensive. Neurologic assessment is going to give us a good window on what's working correctly in your brain, what isn't working correctly, so that we can then in turn target very specific therapies, rehab, stimulation to target various parts of the brain to get them working well. there's three things that nerves need to survive. It's extremely important. Number one is oxygen. And so we know that our our respiratory mechanism from the chest wall, how we breathe to just our respiratory patterns have a world of make a you know a world of difference with how our nerves function. Something that's extremely important for all men and women. Most of the data is based around men right now, something like sleep apnea, because 50% of men over 50 and 60% of men over 60 have sleep apnea. And as you know, if you're not addressing this here, you're robbing your brain of oxygen. You're robbing your brain of one ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Sergio Azzolino: of the main most vital things that you need to survive. And we also need a good nutritional and biological and chemical environment for nerves. So we test all these things. We'll test, as you mentioned, your metals. Because anybody your age, my age, we pump lead of gasoline, we probably washed our hands with solvent. You've shot enough PAMO that you've had lead up your nose and through every body part you can imagine. And so this stuff gets, you know, breathed right in, gets right into your brain. Neurons love lead and it loves to kill them off. And so looking at metals, looking at mold toxins, looking at infections that many of us carry for years and are not aware of it, Lyme is you know, there's more Lyme cases diagnosed than there is breast cancer. And yet there's a A gross asymmetry of what people hear about every year. And it's not to dismiss anything that take any anything away from breast cancer, but people need to know about Lyme and all the different coinfections, especially those that spend the time in the outdoors, like you and I. And so looking at all of these different parameters, from your essential fatty acids to your genes that help to repair nerves, all of these things are critical to make sure your brain And every cell of your body is in a healthy state. And then lastly, as I told you, you need the stimulation. And that's the crux of what we do is really testing all these different pathways to determine what's working well and what isn't working well. So, you know, we have what's called the brain 360 framework, and that is looking at all aspects 360 of what your brain needs to function at its best. we're very blessed and also charged with the responsibility of taking care of many people from around the world from We deal with a lot of kids with learning issues and autism because their brain is at a very vital stage. We deal with many, many professional athletes and professionals like yourselves and others that have served our military, that have been subject to many, many blast injuries, and we deal a lot with neurodegenerative disorders. What is common among all these people? The brains are not functioning optimally. And more importantly, we can find some very instrumental things to make some meaningful change on how they function. And years ago, like you and I know, Eric, people were scared to talk about the brain. And even to this day they still are, but it's become ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: much more popular because people thought there's nothing that can be done. And you know, I wanna thank you for your great work here and what you've done with this book here, the fire support, because that's bringing some awareness to and some hope, I think, to many of our service members and understanding that you can change your brain, you can change your health, you can change your body if you do the right things. And it's just a matter of I'm driven like you are to make sure people have a good understanding of what are those right things and not to waste time running around in circles and just get right down to it and get some objective measures and how you're functioning. More importantly, set up some parameters on what to do and retest and see where you're at. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: I'm yet to see a person that hasn't changed in some manner. If we're dealing with the de neurodegenerative disease like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, which we unfortunately see almost on a daily basis nowadays, the numbers are just increasing. Sometimes the best we could do is slow down the progression. But the key is these are degenerative disorders that have their genesis that start many years, if not decades prior ERIK LAWRENCE: Yes. Sergio Azzolino: and it's important for all of us at our age and stage in life to be proactive and start looking at these things so we get a better understanding of how to move forward. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, with the testing we did years ago, it really taught me the power of different ways to detox the body. Because when we were killing off the lime, the Herx effect was overwhelming my body. So you had to figure out to flush the lymph to get that out so we could get some more lime killed. And that really set me down the the road of how to detox a body and why you need to constantly be doing it. And I'm not a doc, but I think I don't slow down this Alzheimer's and dementia and all that down the road. I don't know. But with yours you have testing available that you can see that it's it you're actually chelating metals out or you're getting toxins cleaned out. Let's go through some of the different apparatus you have there that once you've figured out what a guy needs, how do we re Sergio Azzolino: Well ERIK LAWRENCE: retrain the brain? Sergio Azzolino: Let's start with what I said with in regards to oxygen. We use hyperbaric oxygen as we have for for a couple of decades. It's excellent. One of the best things you could do for yourself. so we utilize hyperbaric oxygen. We have our in-house lab that we could look at blood, and we have we use a lot of specialty labs. And additionally, we have Lab CorpQuest and different types of labs like that that pick up on a daily basis for people that need to run their bloods through insurance or whatnot. So we could facilitate that. Additionally, with our lab, we have a full IV suite where we could put together customized IV nutrients for you. Different nutrients that are going to specifically address one of your needs or possibly help with some neuronal repair with that. We have ozone. We have what's called EBU, extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation. And as you you know, but many need to hear, and most probably know that ozone itself is a very strong antibacterial, antiviral. And it's unstable. So when you subject something to ozone, it's going to turn to oxygen and that oxygen rich environment is what makes it unfavorable for viruses and bacteria to thrive. And so ozone itself, we have what's called the ten pass machine where blood comes out of one arm, goes into a sterile bulb, your blood's in there, it ozonates The blood that's in that bulb, then it refuses, infuses it right back in your arm. That's called one pass. You could do that up to 10 times, and you get a small amount of blood. And it's good for people to try it out to make sure they tolerate it. But what you've done and what's really the best is what we call EBU, extracorporal blood oxygenation and ozonation, where we have two access points, one in one arm, one in the other. Blood comes out, goes through a dialysis machine, essentially, a filter. it filters out unwanted substances, it oxygenates the blood, ozonates it, and infuses it right back in the other arm. So spectacular. as you've seen and done, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: you know, some people may feel a little herxing after, meaning feel a little off because they're killing things off, and most of the people feel great. It really just clears out a lot that's in your blood. And so, we do a lot of that from a metabolic perspective. But the thrust of the clinic and really the the reason why most people come here is the battery and the millions of dollars worth of high tech equipment that we have for rehabilitation. And so when it comes to rehabilitation, once we have a very good understanding of all the different metrics in your brain of what we call the brain vitals, the specific areas of your brain that are not firing well. then we could put together a customized rehab program. So we have something called a gyrostim. It's an off-axis rotational chair that you sit in. there's about 35 of them in the world, and they could we could spin you, we could flip you, we could turn you. we have control right down to the degree per second. And the purpose of this here is not just to put somebody on a you know, a flight simulator. It's to once we determine if your vestibular system one side or the other is not functioning correctly, then we could specifically target some rehab with that to stimulate that one area. Why is this so critical to you and all of our service men and women is because of the blast injuries, when you've shot over and over and over again. It's, as you know, the amateurs are worried about the recoil. People say, well, how's the recoil on that, on that rifle? It's not the recoil. I mean, we could take a punch in the shoulder. It's the concussive effects. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: that occur. And so we could touch on that in a moment. But the vis the gyros stim is hands down one of the best things out there for vestibular rehabilitation. A decade ago we were crazy for using it. we persevered. Now the machine has FDA approval as a breakthrough device, meaning it's hands down far better than anything else out there that can rehab your vestibular system. And as I said We could flip you, we could spin you, we could turn you lots of different ways to just reprogram your vestibular system so the chaos that we develop in the office in that machine becomes quiet and peace when you're outside walking around and you have lights and sounds and people moving around you. So that's one thing. We have a full suite of neurologic rehabilitation devices from things that deal with your hand-eye reaction time, your coordination. We could measure the speed of your eye movements right down to the millisecond and put you in front of a board and force you to react into your fields of weakness, your areas of weakness, your sh areas of slowness, and really speed up those pathways. We have balance platforms that we could put you on and whatever your weakness is, force you to move into that area of weakness. we also have A battery of whole suite of things stemming from transcranal magnetic stimulation. I came to know TMS through you and many others of the special force community. It's done wonders for people with severe depression, anxiety, PTSD, or OCD. The challenge with TMS and traditional TMS is you need about 30 sessions and they need to be simultaneous, and people are doing it. One day after the next. And what TMS is, it's a transcranial magnetic pulse, meaning we put it right over a particular area of the brain. It's a magnetic pulse that pulses in to wake up some of those neurons. We're utilizing a the most advanced one out there now called ExoMind. It's a stronger pulse, it's got some customized waveforms, it's much more comfortable. And you can get away with doing as few as six sessions. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Wow. Sergio Azzolino: it's using a 3.5 Tesla magnet, which is the same that most people utilize for a brain MRI. And so the great thing about the exo mind is we can place it over the left prefrontal area, which is the regulatory part of the brain. We could place it over the right prefrontal, we could put it a little bit more medial that deals with different aspects. We could deal with With it over the motor cortex that deals with movement. And so traditionally it's usually used over the prefrontal area. And that is, as I mentioned, the regulatory part of the brain. So every thought, every emotion we have needs to be regulated. And so important for everyone in your community, you are probably more comfortable in the chaos of battle and war than you are in quiet and peace. Because your brain's been programmed to react to those things. And so and you've done a great job in adjusting and it's so important to help out so many of our brothers and sisters that are trying to return to civilian life that we need to improve the function of those regulatory parts of the brain. We need to get that area functioning better so that they're not so irritated with sounds, with noises, they're not so hyper vigilant at night, you know. With I just came back from the Arctic where you hear a noise and you're thinking it's a grizzly. That pales in comparison to what you guys have all been through, but nonetheless, you're waking up quite frequently and coming back to a city life. You could understand the dichotomy of what your brain goes through with sounds. And that's just for a week or two at a time. So, you know, I I'm I'm humbled by what you all have been through for such a prolonged period of time. So interestingly. in Canada, this exo mind was even used for food cravings. And it's they ERIK LAWRENCE: Hmm. Sergio Azzolino: put it up against Ozempic, not because we want to just pulse everybody's brain instead of their mouths, but when you improve the regulatory part of the brain, you're going to have better control, better control over your reactions, your thoughts, and your behaviors. Okay. So We've seen spectacular changes, no short of spectacular changes with people with OCD and depression, anxiety. that technology has been so powerful for us that we looked at a suite of different things using the same technology, but that can be placed over muscles. And we have a lot of professional athletes that are using what's called NeoSculpt. It originally started as a sculpting device to lose body fat. And as you know, the world ERIK LAWRENCE: Hm. Sergio Azzolino: is More concerned about vanity than health. but it can very powerfully through this electromagnetic pulse, pulse up to 100% of the muscle fibers. So spectacular ERIK LAWRENCE: Well. Sergio Azzolino: for rehabbing muscles, incredible for recruiting muscles after an injury, you know. You've been there, I'm there. All of us have blown out shoulders and knees and things of that nature. And when that joint is injured, when those Ligaments and tendons are injured, you can't do traditional exercises without putting a greater load. But with the neosculpt, we could place it right over the muscle and get some muscle growth in a short period of time. Additionally, there's a chair, and the chair was first used for incontinence. And it's not that we're treating a bunch of people with incontinence, but using that electromagnetic pulse in the pelvis for pelvic floor integrity. Does wonders. It does wonders for men and women with everything from sexual and health challenges, with incontinence, impotency, bladder challenges, or ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Sergio Azzolino: pelvic floor weakness, but even more so. One thing that is a hot topic nowadays, everybody's talking about vagal stimulation. And vagal stimulation, for those that don't know, is the vagus nerve. Starts in your Brain stem comes all the way down, controls your stomach, controls your digestive organs, and it brings calm. It slows down the sympathetic, it slows down or inhibits the fight or flight response. Well, those nerves are down low, also. And so you can do a lot in the brain to fire the vagus nerve. You could do things locally on the neck, but you can also do things through the pelvic floor to activate that vagus nerve. So Doing a lot of these things simultaneously does wonders for people. And, you know, you haven't tried either here in the clinic yet, Eric, but it it just my goal, as you know, is always can we find something that's going to achieve a better result faster for people? Because, you know, most of us have more days behind us than in front of us, and especially dealing with people in your community and with, athletes and whatnot, time is of the essence. when you got people that are depressed feeling like there's no way out of it, when they have suicidal ideations, we need to make something happen fast. And telling people to hang in there for a bit of time usually doesn't work. And so we need to see some exacting changes right away. And so I'm always looking for new technologies, new modalities that can be game changers in a short period of time. So all of our pennies go right back into the clinic and into these types of technologies that can help people. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, it's ever evolving. the the you've been telling me about these and I haven't, made a trip out there, but those are amazing. I've been through some of the others a little more, Crow Magnum elsewhere, and the results weren't that good. You know, if you can do your TMS in in six sessions versus forty five, yeah, I'm game on with that. Sergio Azzolino: There's always better ways. And this more than I do. just everything that you did in the military years ago has changed, right? There's technologies ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Sergio Azzolino: now people are using that save ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: lives. Well, we're using technologies to save lives also on the other end, because there's better ways of going about things. And, you know, the one thing is when we see so many people that have been through the traumas that you've all been through, medication is not solving the issue. The issue is really all of these blast injuries that you've had, and anybody that's even shooting regularly is sustaining concussive effects. And it's something we don't like to admit, but it's a reality. You know, I I don't even like shooting my 300 rum anymore and putting 100 rounds through that anymore because ERIK LAWRENCE: Nice. Sergio Azzolino: I feel the concussive effects. And if I test myself before and after that event, it's not a matter of the concussion. It's a matter of those subconcussive forces that are having an effect on these neurons. So the ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: amateurs and I we're a teaching clinic. We've been a teaching clinic for a residency site for naturopaths, for functional neurologists, for chiropractic neurologists. I've had physicians come through to learn functional medicine. And so we've been at this for a long time. And the amateurs are always asking members of the military or you know of the military community and professional athletes, well, how many concussions have you had? Wh which ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha. Sergio Azzolino: is kind of a pointless question. Because ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha. Sergio Azzolino: as you know, most are first of all not counting. Second of all, most are really good about lying about these things because admitting you have a concussion. Takes you out of the game, takes you out of the field. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: most just push forward. And it's, it's, I ask, you know, what sport are you playing? Obviously, how many years have you played? what were you serving as in the military? And what were you doing? And how many years did you serve? And that's going to tell you what you need to know about how many concussive events. And then additionally, those of you that have been, you know. crazy enough to sustain all the different breachings that you've been through. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: I've seen many of those go wrong, you know, and the the missing body parts are the tangible things, but the concussive ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: effects on the brain are not so tangible. But the nice thing is when we test you, we can see where the damage is. And the reason that's so important is because that gives us a a platform. It gives us an avenue for how to treat it and how to improve it. So every single person I've seen that's been in the military that's come back with any psychological effects from PTSD, depression, or anxiety, which I would safely say probably is close to 100% if we're honest. anybody that's had those effects, we can test the various parts of your brain through a lot of the different neurologic testing and see exactly what neurons are working well and which ones are not. And we've published on this data also. We know that there's areas of the prefrontal area and the frontal lobe that control eye movements. And so the speed of your eye movements, the reaction time of your visual system, all of those tell us how those parts are working. We also know those parts of the brain deal with all of this emotionality. So we can do rehab And get those areas of the brain working better and suddenly you see people's emotions changing. I'm not one bit ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: opposed to utilizing medications. We we prescribe medications for these things on a regular basis. I'm not opposed to utilizing medications or any other ERIK LAWRENCE: Right. Sergio Azzolino: nutritional interventions or things that are gonna make a difference, but putting better gasoline into a beat-up, you know, pinto doesn't turn it back into a Ferrari. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: and if you've had these concussions you need to do some rehab to get those parts of the brain working. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I I'd love that, in your assessments you can target it, then you can track it. And then when we would do some of the rehab, you'd go back and do it again and you would see improvement. It gives a guy, hey, this is working. It it gives them a lot of a lot of solace in in that it's not just another pill to numb the issue. But you're actually actively doing something that makes it better and you can see the proof in the testing. That that gives guys a lot of hope. Sergio Azzolino: Absolutely. And and shooting is one of the more very critical and very sensitive sports that's out there. Because whether you're looking at crosshairs and I've had this conversation with many guys and they're seeing two crosshairs instead of one, or one's a little blurry ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: after a concussion, or whether you're shooting clays, you know, there there's there there's no such thing as an almost hit. There's a hit or a ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: miss. And We could objectify that. And I've had professional shooters, people of your caliber that have spent a lot of time behind a rifle not doing as well. And then we put their eyes on the goggles, their infrared goggles, and we could see that your eye has what's called a nystagmus, where it's constantly beating, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: just a little like this, or you have something called a square wave jerk where your eye's jumping around back and forth and not stable. So all that stuff's fixable. But without looking, you're never going to know it's there. And so no nobody in their right mind would go out there on a football field, a basketball court, or whatever your sport is, and go out there and say, I'm, you know, I'm going to beat Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan had a coach and he worked harder than everybody. And the coach is supposed to see your blind spots. And we all have blind spots figuratively and literally. We all have blind spots. And so with all this technology, we could see where yours are. We could see where your weakness is and help you move through that. Because so many of the deficits that we experience today are going to be serious problems later. And you know, we've been seeing people that have had brain fog, for instance, following concussions. We've been treating people with brain fog for several decades. We've seen people with Lyme disease or mold toxicity saying they have brain fog. Most of those people were gaslit for many, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: many decades. Until good old COVID came around. After COVID, people said, I have brain fog, and suddenly the conventional medical, institutions were listening. And and now if somebody says they have brain fog, we know right away, well, what is it? Is it long COVID? Is it what's taking ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: place? And so infections and toxins can get across the blood-brain barrier. That blood brain barrier is a semi-permeable membrane. Supposed to let certain things in and certain things out, and it's supposed to protect your brain to make sure most things don't get in. It's ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Sergio Azzolino: not a static structure. it's dynamic. And when you have the concussive forces that most have been through with any type of shooting, even if it's just ordinary shooting, nothing bad, and you've had those concussive forces, you start to disrupt that blood-brain barrier. And when you disrupt that blood-brain barrier, Then toxins, infections, and these types of things get into the brain. When they get into the brain, you can start to develop antibodies to not only the organisms, but you start developing antibodies to the brain. So literally you start to develop autoimmunity to your own brain. ERIK LAWRENCE: wow. Sergio Azzolino: We can measure it. It's not speculative ERIK LAWRENCE: Huh. Sergio Azzolino: anymore. We can measure it. So a lot of people that are having these troubles have autoimmunity. And let me tell you a perfect example. People say, Man, I work out, I do all these things, I feel great, because they get a big dopamine rush and they go up and then they crash. And why is that? Because one of the main things that we see is you start to develop antibodies to dopamine. So if you have antibodies to dopamine and you're doing ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Sergio Azzolino: something to get a dopamine hit, hopefully it's something healthy. But the reality is we know all too often people are hooked on drugs ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: because of pain and dysfunction that's never been tended to. And you get that big dopamine hit, and then suddenly you have all these antibodies that rush out, eat up all your dopamine, then you're gonna crash. Then you're depressed. Then you have anidonia, which you feel like I don't want to do anything. And it just starts to become a vicious cycle. So we can measure that stuff. If we measure it and we see it's there, we could treat the underlying causes of it. We could treat the underlying infections. We treat them with drugs. We treat them with herbs. We treat them with lots of different things. We could treat the underlying toxins. And we can do things with the immune system to downregulate that immune response. Fortunately, once again, the the the silver lining with COVID was the medical community opening up their eyes to this mechanism. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Sergio Azzolino: because we saw so much psychosis not just over the not over the staging of COVID and the and the lines people lined up on, but we saw psychosis with people after having COVID. And it was this mechanism that largely drove so much of the autoimmunity in the brain. ERIK LAWRENCE: Wow, that's amazing information. yeah, people don't know that. They don't know that, Surge. So we've got to get the word out on that. And and I mean I'm the I was the perfect patient because I went in there with enough issues that you know you can open your whole toolbox and go, what how can we fix this broken toy? And now I'm a little jelly. I'd like to go see the other the newer modalities. I'm I'm doing good, I'm feeling good, but you can always tune up the the machine better. And Sergio Azzolino: Yeah, but your brain is working so much better, Eric, than where you were ten years ago. you ERIK LAWRENCE: gosh, yeah. Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: sound great, you look great, you look younger. you got things firing, and we all unfortunately saw it play out on the national stage with our last president. people were ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: people either saw the deficits or they were, for political reasons, denying them. But regardless, you got an individual That was experiencing some decline. And rather than getting to work and just fixing it, people ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: just buried their head in the sand and you saw the decline very, very rapidly. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: so if I could urge one thing to everybody in your community, don't wait, because nothing's gonna get better on its own at this stage and age in life. You know, if you're ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: in your teens and twenties, yeah, well, good, pray and and and hope that you know things are going to recover. But Once you've been through many of the things that we've all been through, whether they're injuries, whether they're, you know, life challenges, you know, divorces, deaths, stressors, all these things leave an imprint on the brain also. And if you don't have an understanding where things are at, and you know, I I I've told you that I'm finishing up a book right now on looking at brain vitals, because everybody knows about their cholesterol, they know about their sugar levels, they know their weight, they know things about their heart. because we measure these things as vital signs, but very few know about how their brain is firing, their hand-eye coordination, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: their reaction time, their balance, their cognitive processes. And we you can measure a lot of this stuff remotely, and we can measure it in the clinic and get a good understanding of where your brain is now. And if you want to be a knucklehead and say, Well, this is where I'm at, I'm good, fine. Check it again a year or two from now and see where you're ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: at. We're busy enough. We're not trying to drum up any business. I just want people to have a better understanding of where they're at so that if they elect to do something, they can do something to make some meaningful change. And more importantly, they have a measure on what their brain function is from here on out so that they could spend the time focusing on the things they need to, rather than just feeling helpless and feeling like I've tried everything and looking for a magic pill that's going to Reverse any other stuff. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, it takes the desperation out of the situation, and and you you create a baseline to where you can see if you're progressing or regressing and that that if for an intelligent person that's a no brainer that you know, you have something to measure off of. If we would have done a baseline thirty years ago with guys to now, I mean they're starting to do that, but not to your extent, but I would love that, to where a unit would baseline their men. Sergio Azzolino: Love that too. And let me tell you, that didn't fall on favorable ears, me professing not years ago, whether it was ERIK LAWRENCE: I'll bet. Sergio Azzolino: with some of the sports team saying, Let's get a baseline on everybody so we know where things are at, and then if they have an issue, we could intervene right away. And you can imagine that many organizations don't want a baseline with people because that gets right into disabilities and and all the rest. Whereas ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: I think more people are opening up their eyes and ears and understanding the importance of this because I can't tell you how many guys I've taken care of that don't remember being overseas at times. You know, everything was just a fog to them. Can't remember playing in the Super Bowl, can't remember winning the Stanley Cup or, you know, just have these flighting memories because they beat their brain up so much. And once again, all of this can be dealt with. A ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: and that's the takeaway I wanna make sure everybody has. It can be dealt with. We gotta figure out a way that we can democratize this and get it out to all of you because without the the mainstream system, without the VA embracing this and and offering this, there's not enough of us doing it. And as you know, you've been on the other end, it's costly ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: having people work and do individual rehab and and going through this here. And it just breaks my heart to see how many billions of dollars are wasted on things that are not ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: producing any meaningful results. So I I'm dedicated to helping all of you in the in the community of figuring out a way that we can get this out to more people and save more people from going down a dark path. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, and that's why I was really wanting this interview, y you gave me a lot of hope and gave me a lot of runway to go, yeah, this stuff can get taken care of and everything does get better. I mean, I I had some pretty dark times back in the day. But you know, trusting you once I saw your system, I have wholeheartedly send anybody I can to you and and know they're gonna get the best care they can get. And a lot of people go and they don't realize how how debilitated they truly are until they see the data and then they're in shock. Sergio Azzolino: I and that's the key. we're not we can't help everybody, but once we examine you, we can tell and you can tell and look by looking at the data exactly where the deficits and where the needs are and with that there's usually quite a bit that can be done. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: you know, it's you're doing great work by bringing this, you know, a and just bringing greater awareness to your community. one of the greater challenges that you're you're well aware of is that your community, especially the special special force community, is self-selecting, right? You guys are ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Sergio Azzolino: have to be a little stubborn and a little driven, and I say little, you know, tongue ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: in cheek, to push forward. And so that's oftentimes gets guys in danger. If we look at just guys in general, there's more visits to doctor's offices from women than there is from guys. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, of course. Sergio Azzolino: Most guys are the ones crawling in that can't move or or come in crying because their world's falling apart. They're not addressing things in a proactive manner. And we need to change that. We need to change that among the community. It's it's not a weakness to ask for help. It's a strength because we need everybody, especially in this day and age. We we need to help people, you know, early on so that we can maintain our our strength and sovereignty as a country. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. No, well I'm I'm gonna continue to put the word out and and this is the whole point of the podcast is to get information that's this unique and this, very little visibility on it to get it out there and see what we can do to to spread the word. So I appreciate your time. Sergio Azzolino: No downside. Yeah, my my pleasure any time. And I'm more I'm more than happy to go more in depth on on things you know, today or at a later date, you tell me. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well I I'd like to do it at a later time when, we've done this baseline. But then some of the more in depth testing, all the way down to blood, stool, neuro, e everything. And then when the people see that, then they go, Okay, now I he knows how to triage my treatment and it and what modalities we use for that. I think that'd be very educational. Sergio Azzolino: We could we could do some live case studies, you know. we ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: could use a hypothetical patient, we could use one of you. you know, I'm happy to and and walk right through and make some sense of everybody so they make some sense for everybody so they understand what it looks like. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, you can use me. I I'm not shy. So, but let's organize that and and have our ideas down. And I I think that education would be very helpful 'cause I just want to give guys hope, There there are things that can be done and and taking thirteen different meds a day isn't it? Sergio Azzolino: Not gonna help for most things. and I I want to make sure guys understand that depression and PTSD and anxiety is not just an emotional thing. ERIK LAWRENCE: Correct. Sergio Azzolino: it is from some deficits that you may have in some of those parts of the brain. And you can rehab those areas. All right. Most of ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sergio Azzolino: you are in great shape physically. And pain didn't make you cry. It made you angry and forced you to strengthen and work through the pain and build some muscle. Well, we could do the same with the brain. And so ERIK LAWRENCE: Got it. Sergio Azzolino: it it just needs some attention, needs some care, and you can get through it and don't run away from it and don't bury your hand in the sand and and talk about it. Talk about it with your family and friends, loved ones, but most importantly your brothers and sisters that know what's going on so that they could get you the help that you need. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yep. No, I love that point and we'll continue to harp on that and we'll just expand upon this the next time we talk. Sergio Azzolino: All right. Keep up the great work, Eric. ERIK LAWRENCE: Okay, thanks. See you later. Yep, Sergio Azzolino: All right, man. Take care. ERIK LAWRENCE: bye bye.