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How Rumpelstiltskin Can Save You From Getting Into Debt And Ruining Your Life · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:00
  Once you have given the bank all your money, once you've pledged all these things, the next thing that you have to give, and this is true for everyone, is you have to give up your firstborn child. And I do think this is what happens. This literally happens. I've had this conversation countless times. People that are sitting under crushing debt, they realize that it's maybe not the right time to have children.
• 0:24
  And so I've had friends that say, look, I would love to have kids right now, but we just need to wait five or 10 years and pay off some of this debt. Well, guess what just happened? You just gave the bank your firstborn child because you are now going to have less children.
• 0:39
  Hi, welcome to the Family Teams podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and we can't wait to chat about all things family. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Family Teams podcast. I'm here with my kiddos, Jackson. What's up, Jackson? Hey, guys. And Elisa Hope. Hey, Elisa.
• 1:09
  Hi. Purveyor over at Bluegrass Fairy. If you want to like check out her, her little, her new Instagram. We're trying it one more time. We'll see how that works. And Sydney, Grace Pryor. Hey, Sid. Hey.
• 1:24
  Hey, Syd has an awesome YouTube channel. You check it out. She's a bookworm, literally and figuratively. So, all right, guys. So we had a podcast a few weeks back on Jack and the Beanstalk. Got a lot of really good feedback from that. And so I'm going to do a bunch more fairy tales. Most of these fairy tales are going to be discussed over at my personal podcast, the Jeremy Pryor podcast. But when they hit the bullseye of family teams, I want to bring them over here and have a family teams kind of discussion around the
• 1:54
  fairy tale. So the one we're going to look at today is definitely one that I think every family needs to know about. Virtually every one of you have been impacted by the things this fairy tale is going to discuss in a way that were very mysterious to you and frustrating. And you are about to send your children down the same road if you do not understand the meaning of this fairy tale. So the fairy tale in question is Rumpelstiltskin. It's one of the Grimm's fairy
• 2:24
  But like I mentioned last time, the thing that's really crazy about fairy tales is they go through this incredible funnel of time and being retold and they get honed. And the ones that really resonate have the deepest symbolic truth tend to survive. And Rumpelstiltskin is weird.
• 2:42
  As a fairy tale as this is, is one that has survived. And I think it's because there is something so helpful and so true about the symbolism in this particular little fairy tale. But it is weird. And so we're going to dive into who this little guy is, what he means to you and to all of us as trying to build family teams. And so, again, the few things that have really, people that have really impacted me in terms of my understanding of fairy tales. Joseph Campbell, who says something like, fairy tales are things that have never happened before.
• 3:12
  And are always happening. So as we approach a fairy tale, don't say to yourself, this is a really weird story that has no relevance. No, it's a, it's a pattern. It's unveiling a pattern that repeats over and over again. It, it, it has never happened. There never was a Rumpelstiltskin. There never was a Miller or a King or the princess in the story.
• 3:30
  But it is always happening. You have almost, like I said, almost all of you have either experienced or your children are going to experience directly the elements of this symbolic story. And it's trying to tell us something about wisdom that's very counterintuitive. So we want to dive into that. Also very indebted to Jonathan Pejo, who has been single-handedly uneducated.
• 3:50
  resurrecting fairy tales on the internet and has talked about this and many others and so we're going to look at this one but there's a particular lens i want to i want to really study this one through with you guys so the story of rumplestyl skin i'm going to like go over the 30 second version that we're going to like watch an animated
• 4:06
  Yeah.
• 4:27
  and says, if you don't spin all this straw into gold, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill your father. So she's like crying and upset because she can't really do this. This was just a boast by her dad. And this little guy, Rumpelstiltskin, appears out of nowhere and says that he'll do it for her, but for a price.
• 4:43
  And this happens three times. Rumpelstiltskin appears. And then at the very end, she's getting further and further into debt to this little guy until it really costs her her firstborn. And then when her firstborn actually is born, he comes to collect the debt. And this is the disaster that...
• 5:00
  that she is awaiting and then uh over the course of three days there's lots and lots of threes in this story three days she uh she tries to guess his name because that's what's going to break uh the agreement and then finally after she guesses three times on the third day she breaks the agreement and the lady the princess the queen and her her baby are saved okay so that's the story i'm going to go through the symbolism as we walk through this animated version so i'm going to
• 5:30
  "'Rumple Stiltskin!' "'Once there was a poor miller who had a very beautiful daughter. "'One day he went to the king's court "'and claimed that his daughter could spin straw into gold.'
• 5:46
  The king ordered the miller's daughter to come to the palace. He took her to a room full of straw and said to her, You must spin all this straw into gold tonight, or you shall die.
• 6:02
  Miller's daughter was locked in the room alone. She did not know what to do and began to cry. Suddenly, a dwarf came out of nowhere and asked her, "'Why are you crying?' When she told him the story, he said, "'Don't worry. I'll spin the straw into gold, but what will you give me in return?'
• 6:28
  I will give you my necklace, she promised. Okay, I love the accent. Rumblestiltskin is a German story, but somehow this guy is from the Deep South. Okay, so this is the beginning of the story. And so there are some incredible...
• 6:48
  True is revealed in this story about the nature of debt. So that's what the story is about. It's about how debt actually works. And it really is kind of zeroing in on how it starts, not just how it works in general. So this isn't just a Dave Ramsey course on stay out of debt. It's bad. Consumer debt.
• 7:03
  or something, it's actually revealing much, much deeper patterns that occur. And it must have occurred for hundreds or more years because it repeats. And again, I think that most of the truths actually locked inside of what this fairy tale is describing about debt are actually unknown to most of us today. I don't hear people talking about
• 7:22
  The kinds of things that this fairy tale is unveiling. So the first person I want to really point out, and he's a very important person in the story, even though he's only, he makes an entrance at the very beginning. And that is the Miller story.
• 7:34
  and who is also the father of the girl. Now, what does he represent in the story? Why is it important? And this is in virtually every version of Rumpelstiltskin, you see that the father is the one boasting, that is creating the debt. Now, here's the first lesson that I think very few people understand about how debt starts with young people.
• 7:54
  And it's incredibly subtle lesson. But I think that where debt often starts, real debt, crushing debt, things like student loans, for example, often start because a parent actually is boasting about what they want for their child. So when I actually have conversations with parents or I talk to people that have incredible amounts of debt,
• 8:18
  Oftentimes they will lament. I've had these conversations many times about the fact that their parents were the ones who encouraged them
• 8:26
  ironically, encouraged them to actually take out the debt. And if you ask yourself, that's really weird. Like, how did they not know that this was going to be a disaster? How did they not know that, you know, taking out $100,000 in student loans was probably not a great idea? And I think the answer to that question is actually unveiled in this story. I think the answer is there was something they were actually getting out of it. Their reputation was on the line. And so what happens with this father is in order to boost his reputation, they're
• 8:53
  He makes this claim about his daughter that forces her into debt. This is the repeated pattern of countless thousands of people that I know that get into debt. Their parents desperately want them to go to a really good school.
• 9:11
  They want them to get started in life, but they don't have the money to help them. And so in order for them to feel like a good parent, they need to launch their child out into some kind of place where they could boast about, you know, it's amazing. You want to know where you're, where did your child go to school? My child's going to this school.
• 9:27
  That is a pattern that is so consistently happening in our culture today, and it is driving so many of these young people to death. Because you can imagine the opposite happening. Why aren't the fathers in particular the first ones to warn their children about, hey, what
• 9:43
  There is this thing called debt that is incredibly dangerous. You want to be careful. It looks really enticing at first. It's the easy way out, but you will probably get trapped. Why aren't fathers saying that to their children? Why is it that when you go to kids graduating from high school, that there's not a legion of fathers warning their children about the dangers of debt? And I think that the answer to the question of why that's not happening is actually really dark.
• 10:11
  And we don't like to talk about it. We don't like to face it. But the father's own reputation is on the line. And that's why I think he subtly, I think this is subtle. I don't think that fathers are actually calculating this thing. I want to throw my kid under the bus so that I can look good. This is what's so powerful about fairy tales. They unveil hidden motivations that are the root causes of so many of the problems that we face. And so what this fairy tale begins with is the root cause of the problems is actually in the
• 10:40
  in the reputation management of the, of the parent. So I think that's really important. Initial symbol. We're going to look at, there's many, many more symbols in the story that get unlocked as we go farther into the story. But yeah, curious, uh, for any of you guys, how, what does that, does that stir up anything for you? What, what are your thoughts about that?
• 10:59
  What I thought of was I saw a recent interview. There's a lot of interviews like this, but about why people in Korea aren't having children. And one of the reasons is because they're not financially stable enough to educate them, to send them to school.
• 11:17
  And it's so interesting because that's not actually true. You don't actually need a lot of money to send kids to school. But they're thinking of the academies. It's very important to them for their children to be well-educated because of how competitive it is. Though it's like they think that for them it's so extreme that they don't even want to have kids until they are rolling in money, I guess, enough to send them to an academy. So that's kind of what it made me think of how it starts with parents.
• 11:46
  Yes. And as we're going to see, as we keep going into the story, I think the most brilliant thing about Rumpelstiltskin is the way it connects the reputation of those parents and actually the childbearing of the next generation. All of those things are connected in this story and the way they're connected is unveiled symbolically in a really helpful way to understand. So yeah, I think what's happening in Korea, and this is what I find so helpful, is that it's telling us where it starts. Parents have to start by being careful about
• 12:16
  the kinds of messages they're giving their kids that might be subtly being motivated by their own reputation, desire for reputation with the king, with the culture. We're going to talk about what the king represents in a little bit. Anything else that stirs up for you guys? I was thinking about how actually, I feel like there's more than one way that they, like the way that parents view how this will actually help their child. And I think that that probably comes from
• 12:44
  So first of all, they're not able to financially support their child going through this, which is what gets them into debt in the first place. I think that they also think that it's best for the child to have the reputation of being able to spend straw into gold, because it's less of reputation and more of an identity.
• 13:04
  because people are finding identity in their work. And so the parents are bankrupt, not just financially, but they're bankrupt from being able to give a child their identity.
• 13:15
  So they think, you know, and actually it would be worth it for you to pawn away your necklace, you know, for this or go through whatever you have to go through, you know, to get identity because you're dead either way. You know, like if you live a whole life about identity or you try to make something of yourself and you have to sell parts of yourself, you know, to achieve identity, it's worth it. You know, I think that's probably another way that parents are bankrupt.
• 13:43
  That's a really good point. Yeah. I think that's, that's the, you see the status differential between the Miller. I think it's important. And this is, again, another detail, the fairy tale that's often repeated virtually every time is that, that it's a, the occupation of the father is told in, in contrast to the person he's trying to.
• 13:59
  ingratiate himself with the king, the Miller and the king. And so the Miller, I think to your point, Jackson, is concerned about his identity before the king and then his children's identity. And the fact that he needs to say something to try to make themselves, because there's not a rooted identity. There's not a sense of like, oh, this is who we are. There's a need to sort of inflate that somehow. And so that's where the boast seems to be coming from in the story.
• 14:25
  Awesome. All right. You guys want to hear some more of the story? All right, here we go. The dwarf spun all the straw into gold.
• 14:37
  The next day, when the king saw this, he was astonished and pleased. He became greedier. He took the girl to a bigger room and said, "'Spin all this straw into gold, or you shall die.'" She was locked inside again, and once again she began to cry.
• 15:03
  The tiny man came into the room once more. He said, "'If I spin all the straw into gold, what will you give me this time?' She gave him her gold wing, and he sat through the night and spun all the straw into gold. The third morning the king was very happy to see the room full of gold.'
• 15:29
  He took her to the biggest room filled with straw and said, If you spin all this straw into gold, you shall become my wife. The girl was locked up and once again she began to cry.
• 15:49
  This time, when the little man came to her, she said, I don't have anything to give you, sir. What will I do? He said, Promise me that you will give me your firstborn child when you become the queen. The girl agreed to do so because she was not expecting to become the king's wife. The tiny man spun all the straw into gold in the night.
• 16:19
  The next day, the king was pleased to see the gold. He married the girl, and soon they had a baby.
• 16:28
  The tiny man came to the queen to take her baby away, but she had forgotten about the promise. She cried and begged him to leave her baby alone. The tiny man said, I will not take your baby if you can guess my name. I'll give you three days. Saying this, he disappeared. All right.
• 16:55
  Oh, it's so sad what she's going through right now. So this is, this is, now we got a lot more elements of the story that need to be unpacked. And so we want to look through some of these symbols. So we, the king, what does the king represent in the story? It's interesting. You know, the king is trying to get, everyone is trying to take from this girl. This is, I think, really important to understand. The father wants something from her that is mysterious to her.
• 17:21
  The king wants something from her. He's greedy and he's so excited about this ability she has. And of course, Rumpelstiltskin wants something from her. This is one of the things I think that's really confusing for young people, that when they come into the world and they come of age, they're uniquely vulnerable, especially at that age, right when they become able to become an adult. Yeah.
• 17:41
  And everyone wants something from you, but you don't have the wisdom to actually see through what they're trying to do to get these things from you. And it's very upsetting and you're feeling very overwhelmed. And so I think this is a very common experience for a lot of people. And so try to unpack a few elements of the story. So who is the king? So the king, I think, represents sort of this system.
• 18:01
  That really exists, that kind of the kingdom, like in our culture, we don't have a king. We have kingdoms. I would say kingdoms are things like the government, you know, the academy, corporations, things that have tons of power, massive systems that you're sort of at the behest of when you're a young person and you're coming into the world.
• 18:19
  And that they want something from you, but it's very mysterious often what they want. And you usually aren't sophisticated enough to understand it. They want your future labor. They want your ability to give them things, right? So that they see the value that is inherent and they want to test you and see what you can produce. And if you can produce a lot for them, then they're going to try to create a relationship with you. And this gets the king excited about actually getting a hold of this daughter, this really fatherless girl who...
• 18:47
  is not being properly protected. So you have the king, these sort of systems, these world systems that are filled with greed and that are threatening this poor little girl who has just become an adult, just become of age, and wants to find a way to squeeze her for all she's worth. Then you have Rumpelstiltskin, this little guy, who really represents the banks, right? He's the loan shark. He's the one who wants to hide the traps that he is creating
• 19:13
  that are going to be very difficult for somebody who's just come of age to see through or even remember what what was in that contract i had this experience so many times when people get into that especially things like student loans like i didn't even know what i was signing i was just being told my parents were pressuring me you know that the school was pressuring me the government was offering all these you know these weird words we're going to subsidize the loan you know and i
• 19:37
  This is what is so unfortunate. And this is really what the story is designed to help us to understand. And so you have these tensions. So you have the king or these systems that want something from you. You have the actual trap being set by the bank, by those who want to find a way to give you something now, but they're going to throw you into a kind of debt slavery and really come after something that you absolutely will not want to give in the end.
• 20:05
  But to me, the most brilliant symbol in the entire story, and the thing I think that, especially for people in our culture, we need to really dive into and understand, is the actual cost of...
• 20:14
  Once you run out of everything else, once you have given the bank all your money, once you've, you know, pledged all these things, the next thing that you have to give, and this is true for everyone, is you have to give up your firstborn child. And I do think this is what happens. This literally happens. I've had this conversation countless times. People that are sitting under crushing debt, they realize that it's maybe not the right time to have children.
• 20:41
  And so I've had friends that say, look, I would love to have kids right now, but we just need to wait five or 10 years and pay off some of this debt. Well, guess what just happened? You just gave the bank your firstborn child.
• 20:51
  Because you are now going to have less children. Now, in our culture, oftentimes that's not considered necessarily a bad thing, right? Because I think part of what's occurred is that I don't think in our culture it's just Rumpelstiltskin coming after your firstborn child. I think the king is as well. I think that these systems, they want you. They want you as an individual. They want to squeeze you for everything that you're worth. And so we have also a pattern where...
• 21:13
  where everything is really standing between us and any ability for us to have the numbers of children that we want to have. And so there is a connection between debt and actually losing. And I think symbolically that firstborn child could be other things as well. But I think that in our culture, increasingly, it's just literally the thing that we're losing.
• 21:33
  So there's a lot going on here with the king, with Rumpelstiltskin, with the increasing amounts of payments that he's demanding, and then ultimately his demand of her firstborn child. So we're going to see in a little bit how she tries to get out of this trap. But before we go there, yeah, what is this start for you guys? Any of these symbols?
• 21:54
  Need a blueprint to revise your family to be a multi-generational team on mission? The book Family Revision by Jeremy Pryor is the book that summarizes all the big picture ideas you hear on this podcast. Available on Amazon or FamilyTeams.com.
• 22:13
  Well, I feel like this is very relevant right now because me and Lisa as well just got our first credit cards. And so we're diving into the world of that and how the banks really want you to buy.
• 22:28
  oh the money um it's so crazy i'm so glad that i have parents that are willing to educate us on this because there are things like the minimum payments that just trick you into making like oh it's okay if i don't have the money now i could just pay the minimum payment and then it's fine
• 22:44
  But really, the banks are really just hoping that you'll get in debt to them because that's how they make money. And so it's so insane to just get acclimated to this world where everyone's out to get you pretty much. They're out to get your money. And in doing so, it can get so serious that it robs you of having children early or other joys that could be available to you if you were more financially stable. Yeah. So it's insane. Yeah.
• 23:13
  Yeah, it's amazing that we're not telling kids, like, as soon as you become of age, almost the first person you're going to encounter is Rumpelstiltskin. You're going to encounter a force that's going to want you to, that's going to want to squeeze more value out of you. And then all of a sudden you're going to encounter this force that's going to want to give that to you in, you know, in some way. One of the things that happens in the story is Rumpelstiltskin always appears and spins the straw into gold in the dark.
• 23:39
  And I think one of the things that that story is trying to tell us is symbolically what the bank is doing in basically taking your future labor and turning it into value now that can be given to the king, given to these kingdoms, given to these forces within culture. That's something that's mysterious to the girl. Like she doesn't understand how it works. She doesn't see it. It's happening at night. And all this whole transaction, you know, the love her level of vulnerability and her level of naivety is really the problem. Right. Yeah. Lisa, how about you?
• 24:10
  Yeah, I think what it's interesting, the second thing that she gives him is her ring. And how like that could also be a symbol of like people who are in debt or pinching pennies like they can't get married either.
• 24:26
  And so it's like it'll take longer. Like you're not only giving a born child later, but you're giving up those years of your marriage at the beginning. Yes. Well, and part of what she says, and I know in some versions of the story, these are heirlooms that she has. And so she's literally handing over to the bank her family identity. This is kind of getting back to what you were saying, Jackson, is that like you're losing your identity.
• 24:50
  This is what the king ultimately demands from you. So the bank wants to take it from you, but the exchange of family identity for all the things that these kingdoms of culture want to take from you. And then, of course, how the bank wants to profit. There's a symbiotic relationship between these three elements in the story, the parents and the parents.
• 25:11
  the culture and the banks. They're all in league, and they're not in league in any kind of way in which it's coordinated. They're not coordinating anything. The story makes that clear. It just happens to be that when you come of age, these three forces all start working in a way to extract value from this newly person who's just recently become an adult and has the ability to create value, and they're all getting what they want.
• 25:40
  from you, from the new young adult. But she's just mysteriously sort of the pawn and they're not even coordinating with each other. But what they do just happens to create kind of the perfect loop that squeezes value out of this naive young lady. So Jackson, anything that this part of the story is turning up for you? Yeah, I was just thinking about how, it's so interesting, sort of how Cindy was saying, like the minimum payment trap and stuff. Like she thought that her jewelry would be enough
• 26:10
  like she thought there would be no catch. Like he's literally spinning straw into gold and you offered him a tiny amount of gold so that he can give you like a whole room full of gold. You know, like, are you stupid? You know, it's like, I think what's, what's really happening is she's desperate and she doesn't realize that he's setting her up for, to be reliant on him for a bigger deal.
• 26:30
  payoff later and i think that's how a lot of debt starts they make it seem like you're the one that's winning you know and this could even be a casino right like they like you are the one that will win you're going to be the one that puts us in debt like we're giving you more than you're giving us like you have us little give you a lot for free um and then uh and and then like suddenly they like yeah and the quad like the the uh even though those jewelry pieces might have been fairly family heirlooms
• 26:56
  Like there is nothing compared to the value of what they asked for in the end. You know, it's just like, they're literally, they are trinkets. Like, yeah, I would sell, that was an incident for my first born child, you know, but in reality, you know, so like they're, they're like two small things that he was losing an investment on, but he knew it was going to pull her into a horrible decision later, you know, and he kind of trapped her in that with like that, the minimum payment, you know, trap up front thing. That's interesting.
• 27:23
  Yeah, there's a lure. And that's why I think, yeah, you see this slow gradation you're describing, Jackson. It's designed ultimately to steal the future generation, the life that could be the families represented by the firstborn child. That's the real target. And I think this is so interesting. I really think that's literally true.
• 27:44
  I don't know anybody else who's really taught that or believes that. This story seems to be indicating that. Of course, you know, people could say, well, symbolically, it's maybe referring to whatever you value most or something. But I think that's literally unveiling the truth. I think that we have whole generations.
• 28:00
  that because of the desires of these forces, the king, the father, and the banks, that we are seeing birth rates plummet for lots of variables, but I think this is one that is so hidden
• 28:15
  That, that I think sometimes it's directly the king. I think even like some of the schemes that are coming up today, where, for example, the government is saying, we're going to, we're going to forgive student loans. You know, what's interesting about every one of those decisions, when the government gets bigger like that and says, you know, in exchange for forgiveness, we're going to, there's, there's no cost. It's just magic. We're going to like, we're going to spend straw into gold and just take all that away.
• 28:41
  And what people so often don't understand is there's an unintended consequence every time the government grows like that.
• 28:46
  And it always is, it always is born by the family. In other words, oftentimes people might say, well, is that the best thing that could possibly happen if the government were to just make everything free and we would just have, you know, a lot of taxes, but, but everything would be free, then wouldn't that cause people to want to have more children? Right. And this is one of the basic misunderstandings about the nature of why people want to have children. People are always saying, well, maybe if the government provided free daycare and, you know, it forgave all of our loans.
• 29:12
  You know, gave us universal basic income. The main reason why people have children is not because it is or isn't financially feasible. Believe me, 18 years of constantly serving children is never going to make financial sense. It's always going to be a massive cost financially. And there's nothing the government can do to really...
• 29:33
  to ultimately lessen that enormous cost. But what they can do is take more meaning away from family, and that's what they consistently do. So it used to be that there was so much meaning in family, but I think that so many of these forces of the king, the academy, the corporation, and the government, has really stepped in to provide more meaning than the family. And so now ultimately it's the government that's going to provide for you in old age. And it used to be a meaningful relationship between generations that would create that.
• 30:03
  Now, you know, it used to be that there was lots of you would need to interact. You would have your children with you all throughout the day. This was a big part of your experience as a parent. Now the government's like, no, no, no, we'll take that away from you as well. We'll educate your kids on and on. You can look at all the services that are provided. And every single one of those, every time the king steps in, it lessens the birth rate. It lessens the amount of meaning that people have or experience when they have children. And we constantly are thinking of this as primarily an economic problem.
• 30:29
  But it's not. It's primarily a meaning problem. When you see that children are maximally meaningful, then you're willing to take whatever hits you need to take to have children early and often. But once the forces of culture or the forces of debt, the things that this fairy tale are really describing, once those things really begin to recreate the incentive structure, then all of a sudden it really saps the meaning out of having children, saps the meaning out of family. It takes away those things.
• 30:55
  heirlooms. And now all of a sudden you are left with why, why should I have kids? Right? So, so this is much deeper. And this is one of the reasons why I love fairy tales is that they actually, they show interrelated, very complex concepts boiled down into symbolic form. And this is why I think this story has persevered for so long. All right. So we will hit the last part of the story and then we will see where Rumpelstiltskin takes us.
• 31:21
  The queen tried to remember all kinds of names. The next night when he came, she told him all the uncommon names that she could think of. Let's see. Perhaps your name is Timothy, Benjamin, or Jeremiah.
• 31:41
  But he always answered, That is not my name. The next day, the queen sent her servants all over the country to get all the possible names of the people.
• 31:54
  That night, the dwarf came to the queen again, but she could not guess his real name. On the third day, one of the queen's servants went into the forest to find the little man. Deep in the woods, the servant found him dancing and singing happily in front of a plier. He sang, Today I wake, tomorrow I bring, the next I'll have a young queen's child.
• 32:24
  "'Glad am I that no one knew that loveful stilt-skinned I am styled.' The servant went back to the palace and told the queen the name of the dwarf. That night when the little man came to the queen, she was already prepared. The tiny man challenged, "'Do you give up? Shall I take your child away?'
• 32:54
  The queen smiled and replied, Is your name Harry? Is it Conrad? Perhaps it is. Rumple Stillskin. Hearing his name, the tiny man screamed, How could you possibly know my name? Saying this, he ran away deep into the forest, never to be seen but yet.
• 33:24
  All right. Yay. She didn't lose her child. Awesome. So, you know, fairy tales, they, they do have a happy ending. That's one of the features of fairy tales. And I think that part of what this fairy tale is saying is it was close. And yeah, if those of you guys who are listening to this and aren't actually watching the video, you didn't get to see some awesome animated horse trotting. That was, that was pretty epic. Wasn't it?
• 33:50
  look oh man okay you want to go back and see some cool uh cool uh animation i'm not quite sure exactly how they pulled that off but i mean the servants had some awesome horses oh what do you got there this is my version of rebel silken that cool illustration too nice that's uh is that in the grim's fairy tale book yeah oh nice that's him around the fire is that that picture is yeah dancing
• 34:18
  Okay, he's dancing. Yeah. Man. Okay, so the story comes to its conclusion. And what the fairy tale is attempting to say is there is a way out. It's going to be very dangerous. It's likely you're not going to be able to find it in time to rescue your firstborn child. But there is a possibility. And it's always interesting that it's in, again, the symbolism of...
• 34:42
  the name, trying to unveil, there's something about the name. Now there's, in a lot of fairy tales, when you know the name of something, especially something hidden or a spell or some word like this, it really represents you are able to sort of turn the tables as she is and gain power over that person. There's something you know. It's really kind of symbolic of you learn something that's able to turn the tables on the one who's got you in their trap or in their clutches.
• 35:12
  And so I think that one of the things that, and we can kind of, I'm curious if you guys have any thoughts about possibly what this fairy tale is ultimately saying about how you escape the dilemma that Rumpelstiltskin puts you in. But I think that that part of what possibly is even the name itself is the fairy tale, is the education, is the understanding of the scheme itself. Like when you can unveil the meaning of the scheme, it gives you a certain kind of power over it. Right. And so a lot of people.
• 35:39
  have this experience where they get into debt. I do think this is where the Dave Ramsey's of the world have essentially made such an impact, which is that they have created these things like Financial Peace University. And I think these are similar to the, we're going to teach you the secret code for how to get out of debt.
• 35:55
  We're going to give you the education. We're going to tell you the name of Rumpelstiltskin so that you don't, you're not, you're not enslaved for the rest of your life. And it's not going to be easy. It's going to be close. It's going to be, you know, some painful moments. And part of the story is too, there's almost like a revenge motif. Like the reason why she doesn't want to come out right away and say Rumpelstiltskin, she wants to throw out a couple extra names is actually just sort of to twist the knife a little bit, right? She's, she's really upset at this dwarf for doing this. And so she's excited to kind of pull one over on, on him. And she wants to enjoy the moment.
• 36:25
  And, you know, the actual Grimm's story is a lot darker in terms of what happens with Rumpelstiltskin. He, like, falls into the floor, and it's usually some kind of weird, violent end that he meets. There's also an interesting motif around the fire, you know, that basically the servant goes out, finds the secret knowledge...
• 36:44
  around a fire, which is oftentimes sort of like, you know, this place of wisdom, brings it back to the queen. I think that part of what is happening there, there often needs to be a messenger to deliver the secret code to the unwitting, naive young adult who is trapped. And so I think a lot of people are finding themselves wanting to be
• 37:06
  that messenger, right? That servant of the queen. We want to be able to explain to young people that maybe what your parents did, maybe what the king has done to you, maybe what the banks have done to you have really not served you well, and you are in a tough spot. So let me walk you through how to get out of this. And so I'm going to teach you the secret way out of the clutches of
• 37:28
  of this, uh, ruthless little guy. So yeah, I'm curious for you guys, other elements, how does it, how does the ending of this story or any other symbols in this story resonate with y'all? I think one thought I was having a little bit ago was like, uh, sort of like a more, a broader question of how many people could actually.
• 37:48
  get financial independence? Like how many people, like is that actually, I mean, is there enough money in the world for everybody to be debt free, for everybody to know the name of Rebel Still Skin? Yeah.
• 38:00
  I was thinking about that and I don't know, I was, I thought about it while I was watching this, uh, this one YouTube channel, this guy posts shorts and he's like a, like a dad of two kids and he's got a wife and he, his, his shorts are literally all filming him doing his nine to five routine. Like, and he just talks about finding joy in the monotony. And for a second I was like, you know, and I don't necessarily think that's wrong. I think there's a lot to be said about being content with like your lot in life, collecting a particular trade, pursuing it forever. Like. Yeah.
• 38:30
  I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that, but I was kind of wondering, I was like, could even somebody like him own a business or get into play? Because I'm sure that he's like in a stable, like he has a beautiful home, cars, everything, a car. And it's like, like he's probably also in a position of paying off his debt, I would imagine. Because he had to probably get a college degree. He works for like an accounting firm. But I think in this accounting firm, he manages like 10 accounts.
• 38:55
  And somehow it is worth it for the accounting firm, Steve Hayland's payroll managing just 10 accounts, which means that they're making more of 10 accounts. So that the business owner is always like this middleman. And I was kind of thinking like, what if everything went down to like one person manages these five people's fill in the blank, you know what I mean? Like,
• 39:15
  I manage these five people's deck, you know, like every year get restained, rebuilt, like these, or whatever. It's like, and what's really happening is there's so many people, like when one person owns a small monopoly on like all these people and everybody, everybody trusts that person and they try to give all their business to that corporation. But in theory, I think there is enough work to go around. I think there is a way for like every single person in that accounting firm got all their accounts to just work with them.
• 39:43
  And then everybody else quit. And then the accounting firm would be forced to lose their millions and they'd be making as much as everybody else, you know? And it would be very equal for the same amount of work. And so it's like, but instead, so few people think that way. So they stay in debt and they work for the corporation. Well, they make way more money than that person. Yeah, that could be. You're right. I think there's a lot of people who basically are being taught that, you
• 40:11
  It's their lot in life to be working for Rumpelstiltskin. Are you following us on Facebook and Instagram yet? Look up at Family Teams to get even more free content and never miss out on event announcements.
• 40:27
  You know, to get into debt and just live in this constant state of slavery. I think one of the verses for me that really answers the question you're asking, Jackson, is Micah 4. Micah, who looks into the future and sees a very similar scene that Isaiah saw in Isaiah 2. In the last days, the mountain of the Lord will be established as the highest of all the mountains of the earth.
• 40:47
  And what it says at the end of Micah 4 is every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree and no one will make him afraid. In other words, he owns these things and there's no fear that they're going to be taken away. And that this is somehow a picture of sort of the new heavens and the new earth or the kingdom of God in its presence.
• 41:08
  in a much more advanced form. So there is a place, or there is a way for us to get there. In fact, George Washington, that was his favorite verse. He quoted it over 30 times when he was president, constantly referred to it. And this was the vision of many of the founding fathers that they were like,
• 41:23
  In the old world, everyone was basically a slave. You know, 95% of the population was living at a very low level and couldn't get out because all the land was owned by the aristocrats, by people that came from larger noble families and figured out basically how to get means of all the land and all the businesses. And the new world really created this opportunity that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington dreamed of a world in which...
• 41:52
  in which every family could own their own business, their own economic engine, so that they could experience freedom and not live constantly at the behest of others or from paycheck to paycheck, or certainly just endlessly trying to pay off debt, which, man, that is so miserable. And this is where I think that as parents, we really have to be thoughtful about how to help families,
• 42:16
  make sure that our kids don't fall into these traps because they are waiting. And I think these traps are in some ways are getting worse. That's kind of what I keep noticing. It's almost like the veil over the scheme of Rumpelstiltskin is stronger now than it's ever been. And the collusion between the parents and the king and the banks are getting thicker. The darkness and the mystery over all of this.
• 42:42
  I think there's, there's, there's good messengers out there trying to ring the bell and trying to explain things. I think that people are in some ways piercing through that, but I think both voices seem to be getting louder. So yeah, anything else that this is stirring up for you guys?
• 42:55
  I'm just really grateful to have parents that are telling us the code in some way or another, telling us the name of Rumpelkiltian so we don't go into this blind like that girl did in the story. So yeah, it makes me really grateful. I feel lucky. Cool. Yeah, thanks, Syd. Yeah, it's a weird, one of the things that for me is so helpful is going all the way back to the very beginning of the story is that you want the Miller person.
• 43:23
  and his daughter to be aligned. Um, and they're not to be the Miller, not using her or his own like means to, to what he wants. But it's like, no, I, I, I want to, I want to help you. I want to help you not get into debt. I want to make sure that you don't have to marry the King. I want to make sure that you can, um, keep your firstborn child. Right. I mean, think about even things like abortion, right?
• 43:49
  How many people literally, I just don't know. I don't know how many people literally have an abortion because they're like, I can't afford a child right now. I have debt. I'm like, oh my gosh, there are people literally sacrificing their child to Rumpelstiltskin in those cases, potentially. So, yeah. Alyssa, anything else? This is stirring up for you.
• 44:10
  I liked something you posted today. I can't like quote it, but you said something about like the trend of not being able to use like free speech because you're afraid of like your job.
• 44:20
  And it makes me almost think about the father and even the daughter, too, not being able to say, oh, that was just a joke. Because they're probably too poor and too needy to risk the king's wrath by saying, like, speaking up. And even the fact that he had a lie to get in power. So it's like he's not being able to use his voice or tell the truth because he's in that financial position. Yeah.
• 44:48
  Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen, I didn't, I never saw this growing up that there was a connection between financial independence and free speech. I didn't, I never, I don't think that really existed when I was growing up, but that exists today. I mean, I posted that and I literally got messages from people saying, I have been quiet for decades now. Yeah.
• 45:07
  I cannot say what I think or I'll lose my job. So as soon as I post that, that's what people say, which is unbelievable to me that free speech would be a luxury of, of the wealthier financial independent as if there wasn't enough privileges that come with financial independence. Now,
• 45:24
  You can't even say what you think publicly without, you know, threatening possibly your job. So this, yeah, this is a problem. And this is what I mean by these forces seem to be getting stronger. To me, in the story, that really represents the king. The idea that he's got all this power, like you were saying, Elisa, and that unfortunately the miller was in this position where he felt like he had to ingratiate himself to the king.
• 45:45
  instead of actually protecting his daughter. Is that now becoming a luxury belief of people with financial independence? The rest really have to essentially sell their children to the king, to whatever would ingratiate their family to the king. Is that really what's happening? Again, these are the kinds of questions that I think when you begin to explore the symbolism of a story, you can really begin to think about because it gives you the language, sort of the visual symbolic language to go, what's going on here?
• 46:13
  What did I just do? And part of the way you can use fairy tales in this way is now that you see that there are these images or these symbols, you can always ask yourself, am I being like the Miller? When I just said that to my friend and I just subtly encouraged my child to take on maybe a little bit more death than is probably wise, but it makes me look better. Am I giving my child to the king? Am I preparing my children, maybe of a young family and
• 46:40
  How am I preparing my young family so that we aren't going to have to sacrifice ourselves to the king? Or how are we going to be providing the kind of financial literacy to our children so that they are not at the mercy? And that my grandchildren aren't going to be sacrificed to the banks. All those things, I think, are at play in our lives today that we need to be thinking about. Fortunately, that life is this complicated, but that's why I think fairy tales can come along and simplify things.
• 47:07
  simplify the connections and clarify what these things are all about. So awesome. Thank you guys for listening today. I hope this was helpful. Again, giving you guys some symbolic language for really complex elements of the way that the world works so that we can have the wisdom to make sure that we're not being taken in by these complex and oftentimes sort of mysterious and dark powers that exist within culture and within the patterns of our world. So thank you guys so much for listening and thank you, Sydney and Elisa and Jackson for joining me today.
• 47:35
  Yeah. Thanks, Dev. Oh yeah. Thank you.