Latest / Total Barnage / MEMBER SPOTLIGHT: How I Reached 1 Million Subscribers On Youtube - Tommie Trelawny

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MEMBER SPOTLIGHT: How I Reached 1 Million Subscribers On Youtube - Tommie Trelawny · Total Barnage

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Total Barnage.
0:01
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Today is a very exciting episode.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: One that I'm very much looking forward to.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: We have another member spotlight.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: We have our guest, Tommy Trelawney.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Pleasure to be here.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time coming.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time coming.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: We don't need to go there though.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Would you like to touch upon the reason why maybe this has been delayed?
0:27
SPEAKER_01: We we were meant to record about a month ago, roughly.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: And big workout.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Because we do big workouts at the barn gym.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: But the problem was I went straight to having like a steak pretty much afterwards.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: And immediately my tummy was like, oh no.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: And so I tried to like play it off just to sit there quietly.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: And then I was a bit sick.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a little bit green.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I'm gonna go home.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: But we're here, and it's a pleasure to be here.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, guys.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: It's great to have you on.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we've got Guy here as well.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I saw Tswami arrived in a Hawaiian shirt today, so I thought it was only right to put one on myself and make Charlie feel about bad about his outfit choices.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Literally, and I'm just here in like a cotton, cotton t-shirt.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you look good.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, man.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Take the compliment.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nice and orange.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Take the compliment.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: But this, yes, this uh episode, this this little chat, I think um, there's a lot of things that I'd love to get into.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: But first, tell us about how maybe you found you know, how long you've been at the gym for.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Um so you're one of my my clients.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and how you found out about the gym, what was the process of of getting stuck in?
1:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I live quite locally, and so it all started on Google Maps, and I just wrote gym, as all good relationships together, and then it it then it it did it popped up um locally.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: So good search engine, you know, you've done that amazingly.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then actually I saw you a picture of you guy, yeah, and I was like, Where's I where have I seen him before?
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because we went to the same school together way back.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously we're which your father was also the headmaster of.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: And your sister was in my ear, so there's all links everywhere.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, it was it was sort of on those double take, like, I think I know that guy.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Quite literally.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: When you first came in the food, I think it was your first consultation.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yes, yeah, yeah.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: What yeah, but I mean we hadn't seen each other since we were like 12, 13, so it's kind of one of those hard links, and then your brain finally goes, Oh shit.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: That's the guy.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, been been here.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: I've been on the sort of the PT program, so I come in twice a week.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've been loving it.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know this is you know, this is all voluntary from me.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I actually I'm not being paid uh no, I I really do love it.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: It's really fun to come down.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: I think outside's lovely, um, and I think the atmosphere here is really great, and I think it kind of suits it suits my needs for somebody that's kind of getting back into regular gym going.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's been it's been great here.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what were your was there because so you've moved down.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: You're giving him the 20 quid after this, or are we doing that?
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't know.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Wait, 20?
3:10
SPEAKER_01: I thought we said 50.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll talk we'll talk about it off camera.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: We don't pay anyone nor give out.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I'll take crypto.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: But yes, what was the I guess the reason?
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Was there a particular moment, or is it more convenience for you moving down to to the area?
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you've also got a very exciting event this year.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that and we're not talking about the Roberts Bridge 10K.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Which is today.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I am doing the Roberts Bridge 10K.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: You doing the 10 or the 5?
3:41
SPEAKER_01: The 10, yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna be there?
3:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be there for moral support for the members.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: So I might come around and you know, say, come on to me.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: You'll see me do a sub 40-minute uh Charlie and I'm not sure what's gonna happen.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Um so so I mean, general fitness is is one reason.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh that's probably like the overriding one.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm also getting married this year, so in two months, so you know, there's gonna be cameras out.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: I might as well look uh as good as I can, thank you.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, I think I've been looking to to an excuse to get fitter and healthier for a while.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because where I live, I might run, I might do a bit of cycling, but yeah, I think it's just kind of right time, right place.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, post the wedding, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give up this progress.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh so you'll see more of me.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Get in there.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: You'll see Rob, yeah, Robert Spitch 10K next year as well.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be sub 35.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: That of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Then sub 30, and obviously.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: Interesting insane.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Um but you did do very um just before you joined, you did the Hastings half.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: I did, yeah, the first ever half marathon.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I yeah, had a great time because I yeah, never done any big long distance running.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Um and it was quite quite a weird process in that I started at the front of the pack in terms of you know when you can line up before like a marathon, I started at the sort of top group.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: In the elite.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: In the elite, in the elite.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh but so most of my run was actually people overtaking me because they were like, it was all you know, balancing out and everything.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Go through your head at the start.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Why did you pop yourself at the front?
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Not you know, discrediting any sort of ability, but it's a heavy debut.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: I must have a habit of biting off more than I can chew, um, which which goes back to why I couldn't come to the podcast about a month ago.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um no, so yeah, I just sort of bought, I'm not gonna go for it.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh no, it was really good.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: I got a good time.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: I've signed up for another half marathon, um, which speaking of like you know, novelty and weird things, it's uh a wine-tasting half marathon.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I've done that.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Where is it?
5:49
SPEAKER_01: It's at Denby's wine estate in Surrey.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it sounds uh yeah, frightfully posh the whole thing.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: You can get all you won't beat in the allegations.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it it should be quite fun.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, hopefully, runners aren't gonna get too tipsy.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: But if it's gonna be wine tasting, I think it's gonna be inevitable, isn't it?
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be rehydrating.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's gonna work.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I never forget we went on rugby tour once, the south of France, and they they put 50-50 vodka to water in the water bottles, and it was like 30 degrees.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and rehydrating on that, because you you at the first you would like spat out, and that's horrible, and like actually bring us some water, and they were like, No, that's all you got.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And they lied to us saying it's like oh there's just like 10% vodka, so you're not it's gonna no, and my god, it's such a horrible it's it's the instant hit because your body's like oh it's taking suck it up, boom, yeah, no fun.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: So wine will do very similar.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: I think so, but I think alcohol and sports might not be a good combo, but when you're doing that, well, we did a whole drunk running's fun.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever done it.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: I not yet.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy a drunk run.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've still got time for my Robert Sprich 10k this afternoon.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Get a couple candy.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: My girlfriend and I occasionally drunk run, like we'd just get at the pub in London, be like, should we just run home?
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's just you can't stop giggling.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: What's what's the what's the vibe?
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Is it is it kind of you time flies.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: It depends how drunk you are.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Sure, yes, of course.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're talking about just beyond the point of tipsy and you're just you're now getting into it.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: You could quite easily have a few more, but you're on a good level.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Perfect time to go for a drunk run.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: We should add that to my routine, Charlie.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Drunk sessions, drunk weightlifting.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: It's it's performance.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what's the perfect amount of beer for an effective workout?
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: You shut the brain off.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: I was saying one, we we did do we did a whole episode on how uh drunk fans um we ranked them.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And there was there was a time when I did a ra I had a race, and it was right at the end of the season, so I we had a big party at mine the day before, and it was just like a a kind of charity event run, like a 500 meter sprint, and I had quite a few drinks the night before, and I was still pretty drunk the next day, and it actually really helped because you know I did feel like I was kind of gonna throw up, but also I just shut off my thinking mind.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: There was no thinking mind in the head of Charlie, and so he just he just went for it.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: So that's why people drink, because it just turns off all thoughts.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a little light bulb, yeah.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's why.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: You got a point there, Charlie.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm experienced hangover runs like long runs are no fun though.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, actually, you can just done a few of those as well.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the hungover like half man got it.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just get you just get into a flow state after a while and then you're fine.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's more you suffer after the run.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: I do think doing some form of exercise when you're hungover is is good.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Like the last thing you want to do before is any exercise, but um I I remember um I did like with with some friends watching, but it was with like uh a bit of sea swimming, so it was all safe, didn't dive in drunk or anything, but the the coolness and then the swimming around really wakes you up.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, the best.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: It was like a New Year's Eve kind of thing after after New Year's Eve.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, but just some form of exercise like that.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: That literally switched.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: What did that feel like?
9:24
SPEAKER_02: It was not good.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you just have to go for it.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: You can't you can't half ease yourself in.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: I think you gotta just take the plunge.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: I went to um to Norway one time and we did sort of jumping into the sea after a sauna, and this is in like the Arctic, and it was absolutely brutal.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Um I was also hungover on that time as well.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: So it again it fixes you.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Um I guess there's there is a reason why you are doing the wine half marathon.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Um it's not just around, you know, it's not too random, no related to one of your jobs.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've got a funny sort of series of of jobs, but one of them is I on the weekends I I sort of help out a local vineyard.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of you know, I'm not I'm not a you know a drinker by hobby, so to speak.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: It's strictly worth you're a salesman, yeah, yeah.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: So I I do tours and tastings uh at a vineyard, um and yeah, it's just really nice to get outside because my my normal day job is sort of by a desk or writing.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: So being outside and just talking to people is a really nice balance for my own kind of pressure knife.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: I've I've I've do you know what?
10:37
SPEAKER_02: I've never poured pints for a living.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Have you?
10:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or served alcohol.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: No, I but no, because my dad owns a coffee van.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've been like a barista, but never in the pub.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Never pouring pints, never alcohol.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Have you before?
10:51
SPEAKER_01: I have now.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know, I don't I don't think I was like a I didn't do any like waiting staff.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: I've done like other little summer jobs and stuff, but I think it's really good.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's a really good experience to just kind of throw yourself and kind of sell things or chat to people.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Um and doing the sort of yeah, grunt work is quite there's something quite nice about it.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: Social element or we kind of get that here, right?
11:16
SPEAKER_02: It's like just we're not selling alcohol, we're selling PT sessions.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Well also, I mean, talking back to that original question of why I'm coming, I do quite like just coming around, doing a gym, having a chat.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it's it makes the whole experience less kind of Spartan.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: You're kind of just in enjoying yourself, getting, you know, integrated in the kind of community here whilst getting fit.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: So you you kind of have like a series of things adding up together.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: I think they call it third space.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is that kind of third space, yeah.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Work home and then a gym or something.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's good.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Well I go for 70 quid, I think.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Um but you said Spartan.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: But that's you know, I thought you were going, we were chatting the other day, you were going for more the Spartan feel of things because and this is where we can reveal, we've quite you kind of teased it, like oh, you sit at the desk reveal before.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: I've not done a face reveal.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, so in in some form of capacity, this could be it.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: I've done I've you know, um I could I could sort of say what I do, you know, nine to five.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I'm a YouTuber, um, so I well yeah, exactly what it says on the tin, I make YouTube videos.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Um and so but doing that since for about six years nearly this year, um, but full-time, maybe about four years.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, very very unusual living, selling wine and then selling YouTube videos, I suppose.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And what what are your YouTube videos about?
12:48
SPEAKER_00: For those that obviously, I know, we know.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Give us details.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: No one's got any idea what's going on.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: They're kind of just like super serious, man.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: My channel is called Hoachilaga.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Um H-O-C-H-E-L-A-G-A.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, comment, subscribe.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Which camera do I talk to?
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, yeah.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Um and so uh I make videos on a range of things, uh, like history, religion, philosophy, art, um kind of like I think they call it edutainment.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: I think that's what they call it, educational entertainment.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: So maybe a video would be about 10 to even about like 40 minutes.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: One video is two hours long, um, but it's me using my theology degree uh for good use, um, I suppose.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, just just made videos in COVID about things I was interested in, which often tended to be about you know religion or for example uh biblically accurate angels, I think is the really big one, and that's got quite a lot of views.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, so so so did that, and then I now kind of make videos on those topics.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm very grateful that it can kind of um I'm able to support myself full-time doing it.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, was it with the stuff when you started out, was it related to the modules you were doing?
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Was the content a an extension of your degree or was it more on your own back?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Hmm, I think so I would say it was kind of on my own back because initially I I my first videos had nothing to do with my degree.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: So at first, um, my first video was on the Jeremy Carl show, if you know that.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Um it was kind of like me being a sort of journalist expose being like, look how look how terrible this show is.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And it like it really is quite terrible.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Um it got axed.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And it got axed, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh you can't find that video online anymore because um ITV sort of took it down because it's all that kind of scandal.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Um so initially I I kind of did maybe more journalistic style videos, and then I noticed like memes about biblically accurate angels, just a couple of them.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I looked into it using my kind of knowledge, uh, and it turns out that angels in the Bible actually look really frightening.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: They're not sort of beautiful winged people, it's sort of um wheels with eyes and like multi-headed creatures.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I made an eight-minute video on that, and suddenly it really took off.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it it kind of links to my degree, and I've kind of actually brought a lot of my like degree stuff to it.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there wasn't too much crossover.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: I it kind of actually happened towards the end of my university studies, so I kind of quite quickly actually went into doing this full-time um post-uni.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, a bit of a whirlwind.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: But have you seen the video?
15:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: That was well that was do you know what?
15:44
SPEAKER_02: Funnily enough, when you told me you you had the YouTube channel, that was the first video I was drawn to.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: Just like from because that I found it interesting.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, some pretty messed up looking things, like three heads and like tails and with noses.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: I think people what because I'm I'm not kind of trained, so to speak, on YouTube, so a lot of it is like me learning through osmosis, but I've learned there's something about things that are kind of creepy or dark or disturbing, or things that you thought you knew but you actually didn't.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: I think that's my bread and butter.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Kind of like um going diving into the ancient texts and being like, well, this is what it actually looked like.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: These are what you know, cyclopses, for example, might have come from elephant skulls or um So here's a video idea.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the Odyssey is obviously coming out.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: There's like some inaccuracies there.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Is that hold on a second?
16:39
SPEAKER_01: I tell you what, stay tuned.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, tell them tell them stay tuned.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Um I am doing an Odyssey video, okay, and I'm doing I'm doing a video where I am this it could be your pitch actually, in terms of like I'm retracing the journey of the Odyssey, but through monsters.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: So looking at the origin of these various monsters.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm all over that.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's gonna be good.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm kind of halfway through writing it.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Um because you know, there's a big film of the Odyssey coming out, so I'm thinking there could be interest in that topic.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: This is about what, four weeks away?
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean Greek mythology after the film comes out, and it's just gonna be a good idea.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: Totally YouTube.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: That's the thought.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: If I can uh ride a little bit of wave of interest and share my kind of knowledge, um that's ideal.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: So stay tuned.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: An Odyssey video is coming out.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh did you not know that it was?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: All right, so wait, I really didn't.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: Great minds think alike.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: I was thinking that's pretty, really good.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: But um obviously, you you you mentioned to me before, Tommy, it is what you don't want to fall down the rabbit hole is conspiracy.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh first, kind of why is that, and like where are the dangers?
17:51
SPEAKER_02: Because obviously, you know, some some some of the topics you discussed, you could quite easily slip into that rabbit hole.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I it's a good good question.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: So there is a big appetite, as I kind of alluded to earlier, there's a big appetite for hidden truths, forbidden knowledge, and that can get really conspiratorial.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: And that stuff, I'm I'm not into it.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: I just I just think that uh it's it's a bit of a poison chalice because you can you can make um and people do make lots of money doing that stuff, like peddling theories about Illuminati or whatever.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: But I think you can sort of sell your soul in the process and do real social harm.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: So I think where I come in is I think I benefit off the big interest there is of this, but uh maybe actually being I made for example, I made a video about the Freemasons of what they actually were, rather than you know, a sort of cabal of uh crazy, you know, whatever.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: I made a video where I infiltrated one of their Facebook groups, and it's just a nice bunch of guys having a chat.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Um so I think it's with YouTube and with any kind of social media, there's big rewards to be made for being conspiratorial.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: I I don't do that stuff because I think that I don't know, yeah, as I mentioned, uh you you're you are kind of selling yourself to the devil a little bit.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Um and so yeah, uh what what I like for for my channel or my stuff is you you really do build a relationship with your audience and trust is really important and you build trust, you know, because I I like cite my videos with sort of um footnotes and everything.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: It really is like a university essay.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, trust is really important, especially anything educational.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh and so I don't want to kind of abuse that trust um by kind of misleading people, but you can sort of straddle those lines of interest and draw upon things people are talking about, but yeah, I think I think it's kind of like holding like a precious Ming vase, like you've got to handle it with care, I think.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how do you how do you get the balance right between getting content which is like surprising and goes against people's kind of conceptions and like um knowledge on a certain text or something, but not going too far to make it a little bit more you know fantasy or a little bit more exciting than it actually is.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Do you find that you get attracted to a bit of like you latch yourself onto something and you've got a restrain?
20:25
SPEAKER_01: I think so, and I think that it's it's a you're always you're always just quite close to the line.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Like um I think the the packaging of videos like thumbnails, you can sort of tickle an audience with a bit of that sort of you know spicy stuff, but once they're there, you can reel them back in.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: So you start where maybe an audience is of misinformation or or or interest, which is genuine, but then you can sort of draw them back in with these are kind of the facts of the story, and yeah.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: It's a great way of saying clickbait.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yes, clickbait.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: But all that stuff is yeah, it's um but maybe I mean on your end, doing a gym and doing YouTube uh here, there is I don't know if you ever come across this, but like I'm sure there is financial incentives to make like Manosphere content or pedal like pills, which you know, uh as a YouTuber I I get emails which are trying to make me you know pedal them, but I say no.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, not that you would do this if that's as part of your own content strategy at Barn Gym, but like you could make like, or one could make really intense kind of manosphere, Andrew Tate adjacent content, and that would get a pickup because I think that's just the world we kind of are these days.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a real like there's more skill in in knowing that exists and kind of understanding that's the market and that's the environment, but taking people back from those spaces to a new space that is kind of rooted in like compassion and like good knowledge, rather than kind of like you know, this is a Castrostrum pill I found from Papua New Guinea.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take it.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a really fine line to play.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it is, it's definitely something that we it's probably why the you know the podcast hasn't taken off and got a million subscribers already.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Um it's because yeah, we when we kind of create the episodes, there's nothing like you can do stuff with the titles, and actually some of the more listened to episodes would be those which have more uh kind of like attractive titles, a bit more not clickbaity titles because you do like so you do talk about the interview with Hochilago, like you know, we're gonna get a lot of views on this one.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: How to get a million subscribers.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, with a face reveal, yeah.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Marshmallow mask.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: You do those things in those crime like panorama where it's like blurry face and it's me like a really deep voice.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: But I think it is, yeah, we we try I think a lot of the content that I I like to make personally is I think a lot of them are based on principles and are very evergreen.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Totally, yeah.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Um and and it's not to say that's probably a trick that we like we miss is we don't really hop onto trends.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Like you've got a really smart way of looking at maybe the foresight of what's trendy and just angling your content, you know, to to what is being talked about at the moment.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Because you look at what's the process that you go through for how to make a video.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: For for how to make a video, but like the words that are popular at the moment is that something which is important?
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, for example, when you when I'm sure this is the case for anybody who might work in like newspapers or any form of digital media, you're you're kind of in this attention economy where you're trying to like like get people's attention, but you you can do it artfully where it's not kind of yeah, clickbait.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, you'll kind of just like get your nose to the ground of what people what are people talking about?
24:05
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, this Odyssey video that I've got planned.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of what we've spoken about can kind of be boiled into this process.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll see how the video does, it could it could completely flatline.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, there's a big Odyssey movie coming up, so there's gonna be interest.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: So maybe, you know, how do I fit in?
24:21
SPEAKER_01: How can I maybe um be part of that kind of rise of interest in there?
24:26
SPEAKER_01: And then um you always want to have a little bit of something spicy or a little hook or a bit of intrigue.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I don't know.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh in my video, there's a there's a really interesting theory about how cyclopsis, these big one-eyed giants, might be based off like elephant skulls with their trunk hole in the middle, um, which is a bit of like a uh a bit of a speculative theory, but you can use that to present the video, and then you can get people kind of in, and then you actually can can give, when you have time with them, share the facts.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's it's a constant balance, but you'll find that, and whether this is like a thing of the world today, like people that that make big YouTube empires are quite extreme with their language, but I think that I think there's space for just winding that stuff down and and kind of having a more of a gentle space where you can kind of get your your viewership and your interest, but without um without just kind of making the world the worst place through conspiratorial thinking or uh yeah, aggressive kind of content.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: It's just the conspiracy thing.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: I when I was probably about 19, I started watching conspiracy videos to work out why people believed in conspiracies.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Slippery slope.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: The pipeline.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: Why do people oh okay, I'm starting to understand it now.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: And then and then you actually stop you start watching the videos which pull apart conspiracies with evidence and data, and you're like, okay, this is just thick.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: But it's just the language they use, right?
26:02
SPEAKER_02: And it's just they suck you in and very convincing.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is 19-year-old me who is probably not doing a whole lot at the time, maybe yeah, anyway.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: You got your visits, yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was getting sucked into it.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: Oh, sorry, yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: But the flat earth one I never understood.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: I just could not get my head around how people think the earth's flat.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: How that would even work.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: But they don't believe in physics either, there's not flat earthers, so yeah.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: At that point, it doesn't even matter.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, like what are you gonna do with that information?
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, they just don't believe in anything.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Like data.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: You just have ambient anxiety about everything.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: It's like oh so it is it is the whole the whole internet sphere, it kind of it can kind of reward that stuff.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's just being really careful about um playing with people's like hopes and dreams and fears, most of all.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: I think fear is like a big, a big, you know.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a reason why my most popular videos have the word creepy, disturbing, or dark, because people just are drawn to that stuff, it's just our nature.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, start with fear, but then end with love, which is where we've started on this.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Start with talking about being sick, yeah, and then you go through the cycle.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: So, how important is the thumbnail, the title, and the first 10 seconds of the video on YouTube?
27:24
SPEAKER_01: I think that's kind of that's the the top 80%.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: All those together, so a title, a thumbnail, and your 30 seconds.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Because you also got writing on the thumbnail sometimes as well.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sometimes, yeah.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: You can only afford like a couple of words.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, if you if you're looking to get into YouTube, listen up.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I would say I think that there's making successful YouTube videos, I think it can get too complicated.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: I think there's all sorts of theories, but I genuinely think the rule is make stuff that people are actually interested in.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And that I think is actually boiled in the title.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: The title is really important because that is your pledge that you're making to your audience.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, in my video, I don't know, uh survival guide to the biblical apocalypse.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: That's the title of that video, and I think there's a premise there of you know, what is the biblical apocalypse, but why is there like a survival guide?
28:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that and that single premise alone, I think, drew enough people in, and that video is kind of kicking on like eight million views for that one.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Um so I I really think that it's just are are you making stuff that people actually want to listen to?
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And I use the word actually because I think people can make things that people think are interesting, which I think is like a great start, but over time, and I've learned this the hard way, you kind of hone your mind to really cut through and be like, what is the person on the other end of the screen, what are they kind of actually interested in?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is the key.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And you always got to be thinking about maintaining their interest.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the absolute key.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: How do you find that out?
29:05
SPEAKER_00: What people want versus what people think they want versus what they actually want?
29:10
SPEAKER_01: I think, ooh, that's a good question.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: I sometimes think it can boil down to like nature and nurture that kind of stuff.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Like I think I I think I like to think of myself as somebody that uh I'm interested in other people, um, and I think maybe that explains why I studied like theology, like what are people's beliefs.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: So I think I'm naturally interested in that anyway, but I think it's it comes also through a lot of hard learnings because there's things that I think people would find interesting, but just don't don't get much pickup.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you you kind of learn uh through knocks you go along the way.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: I think it's like a like a sword on an anvil or something, like you just need those knocks that kind of sharpen you up.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Um but it's just so much trial and error.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: You kind of learn a you learn like a language of interest, and I think that that's true for YouTube, but I think true everywhere.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe that's maybe why I uh really enjoy selling at a vineyard, because um you can kind of sell people things in a nice way.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: You're kind of gauging, do they actually want to drink this wine or are they being nice?
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Um so uh it's taught me some really good skills that I'm quite grateful for.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: I guess there's one thing like with the feedback that you get, obviously the selling the wine is pretty instant feedback.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Um but you with yeah, with the videos, I guess you've got your comment section, and this is what you talk about community, and it's a proper testament to it, and it's reflected in the the comments.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Also, you've got to work a Patreon as well.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: Is you know, you'll have a lot of inside jokes in your comments, and then you'll also have a lot of suggestions.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Is that something that you've helped like has helped you structure kind of what the content is, or is it more so just what you're interested in and cutting out the stuff that actually for people might not be as?
31:04
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a dialogue between the two.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I've got an ear out for what folks are interested in, but I also know that if I'm not interested in it, then it's not going to be interesting for other people.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: You you kind of you need that inner fire to to translate.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: So I'm listening out for interesting ideas, but I all I also need to be interested in it.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in that kind of in that cycle, you get a you get a good video.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I think I think it's kind of it's a you're listening out for what people are into, um, but it it's it's not a science, it's an art, and you like inevitably make things that just people aren't interested in, and that's and that's kind of the joy of it, I suppose.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Because you've got loads of stats.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Like YouTube and the internet, totally loads of stats, loads of analytics.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: That's I guess the balance between the art and the science.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you could go purely scientific and go based off the data, but that doesn't paint the whole story, and also you're spending a lot of time doing these videos.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I guess you don't want to just go audience capture.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: No, totally, yeah.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Like you can't one can get really into the stats and look at what was the retention rate after 30 seconds, you know, are they clicking off the video?
32:18
SPEAKER_01: And that is is really useful.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I think I don't think data can can truly build up great ideas.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: I think there's an element of like magic involved where like my video ideas come like often as like shower thoughts, or like just from going to bed, weirdly.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, uh yeah, survival guide to the biblical apocalypse.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: That really would pop into my head, but I don't think I would arrive to that point through harsh data where I'm like crunching the numbers and trying to find stuff.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes there's an element of a bit of magic, maybe, where you kind of you kind of have like a really itchy thought that you need to scratch, you know, oh I want to make this.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's just true for any kind of online content, or if you're writing a book, you know, you're you do you people do judge a book by its cover and you kind of want to sort of grab them.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's funny, is it's it's like I was thinking about when like refurbing the gym and building it through the process.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: It was what do people want?
33:21
SPEAKER_02: But that's kind of the wrong perspective to have, and it comes to the same thing of YouTube videos because for me, art is building something that has great meaning to you, and inevitably other people are gonna enjoy it because you've created something that you think is beautiful, and I guess you get that in your YouTube videos.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: As if you were just purely look at the data, you'd just be creating it for the viewers.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: You you you see it with big block master movies, right?
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Like for instance, like that John Carter movie, like Disney did so much research thinking at that point in time, and they put like a 300 million pound budget on it, they think, oh, this is exactly what people want, and it was all made to make loads of money, yeah, and it flops, no one wants to watch it.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Whereas you recently get this film, this passion project, I believe it's called Obsession.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Have you heard about this?
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, like a really young filmmaker.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 750,000 pound um project, and it makes 150 million a box office, like highest return on investment from any movie ever made.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: And that just became from a passion, and you compare that to some of these big franchises where they're like, we need to make X amount of money, we need to maybe become too focused on the data, and the art leaves it.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, it's a very long-winded question, but it's I do you ever notice that with yours if you become too focused on the data?
34:40
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever made a video where you're like, I just need this to get loads of views?
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Um I suppose like thinking about how a video performs is like an kind of it does inevitably factor in of like this this is important to me because fundamentally it's kind of my livelihood.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: So I I want it to do well.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also yeah, I think that um I yeah, I I think that ultimately trusting my gut hasn't got me too far wrong.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm I think some people are like head people where they think about things analytically, and then some people are kind of heart people.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm a heart person where I think I'm guided more by my kind of emotions, not in a sort of like uh I don't know put it, yeah.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: That sounds I'm I'm sort of frenzy, yeah, yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Like more like intuition.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does yeah, I'll take that.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: We can we can uh cut that cut that back in.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Um intuition.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that that's a big part of it.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and and also I'm sure like running a gym or being in the gym, like uh yeah, I think if it if if it's too optimized, I think that's the key word, I think it becomes quite sterile.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: And I think my attraction to coming to Barn Gym, for example, is it's kind of maybe the opposite of that.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: It kind of feels like a kind of fun place to be, a lived space, where like you could you can do the best of both worlds.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's not like a hardcore super optimized, or at least not yet, I don't know.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, so so I think there's it depends kind of what kind of person you are.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: But I I find that for YouTube, yeah, trust trusting my gut for video ideas is always quite helpful.
36:25
unknown: Yeah.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Back to the thumbnail thing.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: In the gym, we kind of have this saying, it's like sell the customer what they want and then give them what they need.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: Because much of the time they think they want something, but their goals that that's what they want isn't actually gonna get them there.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: So then you deliver them to what they need and then they get better results.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: I guess that kind of works for the fun now.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: You'll you'll you're selling something like ooh, what's that a curiosity?
36:53
SPEAKER_02: And then in your video you're going actually deep into the nuances of it, explaining it all through and giving them the information they need.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: So it's quite interesting that correct kind of correlation.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that's a really good yeah, I think that's true for so many areas from yeah, working at the gym here or you know, YouTube or wherever, like yeah, giving yeah, packaging of what of what they want and and speaking to their kind of desires, but then you go with a journey with that with another person and you bring your knowledge to it.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, I'm sure if you if you give your gym clients what they want, which might I don't know, which might be misguided, it doesn't help anybody.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's like it is yeah, going on a journey with them.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I try to do it with my YouTube videos to varying degrees of success, but yeah it's crazy.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: What's that is that what experimenting with things?
37:47
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean by that?
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I think I think you um it is quite a lot of experimentation with with anything.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Like you I mean all of us here are quite young, so we've got a lot to learn, I suppose, but it comes through just a raw experience.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Like I don't think you could ever study your way into into true success.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's it it is just a case of being out there making a lot of mistakes, but through those mistakes, you kind of something gets sharpened, as sort of knowledge or something.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I think I think I'm a big believer in just and I think I I feel this way for even starting my YouTube channel in the first place.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Just do something now and then think about it later.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm still in my doing phase, and I'm still not necessarily, you know, retroactively thinking.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm just doing my videos, making my videos as much as I can, and yeah, so I think I value kind of action over kind of pondering too much, yeah.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Especially in I guess it's in a a creative space, like that's something which it's not overly rational.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: For you, like creating like an art form, it's not a like you say, even though it is a balance like it's a balance between art and science, like when you started out, like are you did you have a temptation, I guess, to try and copy someone else's?
39:06
SPEAKER_00: What was it like when you were starting out with yours?
39:08
SPEAKER_01: So the very, very start.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that I I actually tried to look at what other people were doing and kind of like make my own version just to kind of teach like like stabilize this, to kind of teach myself how to do it.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: So make someone some make something in somebody else's style, not to kind of copy them forever, just to kind of like uh kind of give you like scaffolding when you're learning from the start up.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Um and then if you do that enough times and if you kind of mimic lots of other people's styles, you kind of find your own through line in the middle.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm at the point now where I kind of know my style, um, but that that is just through raw experience and just sort of trying things out, discarding things, taking things on.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I think it's it's it's a really fun, I'm really I'm really grateful to be to be doing it and still doing it.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, because you can you can make we're talking about films earlier, it can take years for a big film to be produced, whereas it can take like a few weeks or even just a week for a YouTube video to be made.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's really instant feedback, and it's it's quite nice how quickly you can make stuff and and connect your audience and stuff.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: So I yeah, I think it's it's it's a quite a fun place to be, and I think that's why this podcast is quite fun for gym clients or whoever's watching.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Like uh you get to kind of see another side of what folks might do here and stuff.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: What's the biggest difference in your style from when you started to where you're at now?
40:44
SPEAKER_01: My voice is one big thing.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh my eloquent British tones.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Um when I list my earliest videos, I I really do struggle to communicate, like at least in my my ears, um, where I'm speaking very quickly, um, I'm kind of I've got awful mouth noises, sounds like one of those AirSMR videos.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's quite like I really like my old videos, but they're quite choppy and they're quite DIY.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: But I think I've learned to just kind of slow down in my videos and make them longer, um, they're more structured, and so I think ultimately just I think fundamentally that they're better, they look better and they kind of get the messed across better.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: But even my really old videos um still kind of do quite well some of them because I think the idea behind them, as I mentioned earlier, the idea behind them is what really matters.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't matter if it looks good or not.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: Um what matters is are you saying something that people care about?
41:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is the ultimate source for I think online content, but probably even beyond.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, are you kind of speaking to people?
41:53
SPEAKER_01: And are you yeah, giving giving people what they want slash later maybe need?
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think I don't need a YouTube video, but so you know with movies, right?
42:04
SPEAKER_02: You have act one, two, and three.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: Do you either think of like that in your YouTube videos, or what's the structure you go through throughout that video?
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I I think my YouTube videos are actually kind of like university style essays, but I I make them really accessible.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: So, like if you break it down, there's like an introduction with your argument, and you're kind of saying, This is where my video is gonna go, this is the journey I'm gonna take you on.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Because quite quickly, any viewer needs to know, is this video worth watching?
42:36
SPEAKER_01: So you need to kind of lay out the tracks, and I try to do it within the first 30 seconds, kind of like get them interested with like a pithy line, and then kind of say, like, this is the journey we're gonna go on, and then from there, it kind of can go where you want it to, depends on what the topic is.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: For example, my Odyssey video, I've styled it like spoilers, spoilers, spoilers.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, spoilers! Well, I guess you know spoiler, it's like 3,000 years.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: If you've not read it now, it's teaser.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Teaser, teaser, yeah, yeah.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's premium content.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, with like this Odyssey video, the first 30 seconds is being like, you've heard of the Odyssey, but not like this.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's like the kind of hook.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: And then the pledge I'll be making to an audience is I'm going to take you on a journey of the Odyssey through the monsters along the way, and then give a sort of sample of ooh, look at this.
43:27
SPEAKER_02: Umice.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, if you like to crab.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: So this is this is the gotcha moment.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: There's a piece of paper for Tommy.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: I have actually run your YouTube uh voiceovers through AI, and I have asked AI to um to create a script for the invention of the Romanian deadlift.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: And this This should have your structure as you say.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'd like you to can you do a voiceover?
44:07
SPEAKER_01: We'll do an exclusive Hochulaga vid.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: This is going up to£120 now.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: So I've definitely developed my my Hochalaga voice.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: It's quite different to how I like normally speak.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Um Shall I just go for it?
44:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: So right, I'm so title The Romanian Deadlift, a voiceover script.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably not the title, right?
44:33
SPEAKER_01: The Dark Truth of the Romanian Deadlift.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: That's the YouTube title.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Ah, good.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: The dark origin of the you know.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: Chapter one, the lift.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: The Romanian deadlift is one of the most important exercises in strength training.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: And putting it like that, it's probably worth knowing where it actually came from.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: That is actually what I do.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: I feel very seen right now.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Or what have I agreed to?
44:58
SPEAKER_01: I always use like that, yeah.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: Whether you lift or not, you may be familiar with at least some variation of the deadlift.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: From conventional to sumo to trap bar, these moments are at the heart of building strength.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: But how well do you know the RDL?
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Where did it come from?
45:14
SPEAKER_01: And who invented it?
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Keep going, keep going.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: Can you feel the tension?
45:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's where I come in.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: In this video, let's explore the complete story of the Romanian deadlift.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: One detail at a time.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: Chapter two, San Francisco, nineteen ninety.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: Before we get into the lift itself, a quick a quick but important bit of context.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: In nineteen ninety, a man named Viku Niku Vlad stood in a gym called the Sports Palace in San Francisco.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: He was an Olympic champion, a world record holder, and he was from Romania.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: Nicku and his coach, Dragomir Syrosalan, were conducting a clinic for American weightlifters, and everyone there expected to learn something valuable.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: But they didn't expect this.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: Try keep going.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: I've not read any of this beforehand.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: Chapter three.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: The Discovery.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: After clean and jerking around twenty sorry, sorry, I'll redo that.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: After clean and jerking around 220 to 230 kilograms with ease, Niku loaded the bar even heavier.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: 250 kilograms.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: And then he proceeded to do something different.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: It looked like a stiffed legged deadlift, but it wasn't.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: It looked like a regular deadlift, but it wasn't that either.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: His back stayed flat, his knees stayed slightly bent, and he lowered the bar to just inches from the ground before pulling it back up.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Someone watching asked, What is that exercise you're doing?
47:01
SPEAKER_01: No name, no fanfare, just the lift.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I should hire you to become a co-writer.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: This is this is kind of feels like a bit of my style.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Um Chapter 4.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: The Birth of a Legend.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: The Americans were fascinated.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: They asked NICU to demonstrate it again with lighter weights and explain exactly how to do it.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: Someone taking notes, someone taking notes asked what the lift was called.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: There was a long pause.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: Nicku and Dragomir didn't have a name.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: I think I know where this is going.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: So, Jim Schmitz, the US Olympic weightlifting coach, said, let's just call it a Romanian deadlift.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: And everyone agreed.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: From that single afternoon in San Francisco, the RDL spread across the world.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: Within two decades, it would be seen in gyms everywhere.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: From powerlifters to bodybuilders to athletes in every sport.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: All because one Romanian weightlifter did something unnamed, and the world was watching.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: The Romanian deadlift.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: His gift, our legacy.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Finn.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: Just it makes us want to thank you.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: That makes me want to make a YouTube video.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but RDL.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: That's brilliant.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: That was so good.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: That's fun.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is stuff, there are script stuff that happens in there.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: Before we get into it, a little bit of this.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: I I always do that.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: Um I went through which video was it?
48:31
SPEAKER_00: It was I think it was your Enoch video.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: The one that was the book of Enoch.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: And I went into the transcript and went into AI.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: And then I refined it a bit.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: That has the DNA to be a big YouTube video.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: I think we should scrap mythological stuff.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: I think we should do like the origin of various Eastern European weightlifting exercises.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Russian twist-yeah, Russian twist.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Bulgarian deadlifts.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Bulgarian split squats.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: That's the one.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: Don't say that.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Bulgarian deadlift.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: You can actually do a Bulgarian deadlift.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: Can you?
49:06
SPEAKER_02: Do you want me to demonstrate it?
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Alright, yeah.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go for it.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: How's it?
49:10
SPEAKER_01: I've had my time to dance like a monkey.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what?
49:14
SPEAKER_02: I'll even get some number.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, brilliant.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: This is such a visual visual episode.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: We've gone from audible to visual.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: Here?
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: Split squat.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're going for Romanian Bulgarian split squat.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: My goodness.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: So doing like a bend.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Check this out.
49:37
SPEAKER_02: I drive my hips backwards, yeah.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: But that's this is a great movement.
49:40
SPEAKER_02: That'd be good.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: I I used to do it all the time.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Um when I had yeah, hamstring injury.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: You're not picked up on the mic.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: You did it when you had a hamstring industry.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, walking.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: It's like walking off.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: The Roman Romerian Bulgarian.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: The Romerian breadlift.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: The breadlift, yes.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: That was okay, so that's how does that which which bits of it were very much like your structure?
50:07
SPEAKER_01: I think the start.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh let me just double check.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think the start is is quite me.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: I feel very seen.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: I feel very like, oh no, I'm at AI.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you can still tell there's a bit of AI language in there.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've ever picked.
50:24
SPEAKER_02: I I guess you do a bit of market research, right?
50:26
SPEAKER_02: And watch it.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: Is there any keen like YouTubers that you like, and then you're now starting to listen to it thinking, hey, that that sounds a bit like AI, like the script.
50:38
SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily the voice, but the the language they use.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: I think they do I I can I definitely can get that.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: I think when I see or hear AI, it can just feel a bit like dead.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to describe.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: It pisses me off now.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it generally annoys me, especially when I see like some gym YouTubers who've been doing it for like 10 plus years, got massive followings, and they post a video, and I'm like, that's an AI script, and it it kind of triggers me.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: And I've stopped listening to some people recently because I'm like, why?
51:10
SPEAKER_02: You're a smart person, like anyway.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: That's just me though.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: No, I get that.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, there's something about AI, and maybe it'll get better, or maybe it won't, but I just don't think it has like a soul, or you can't feel that soul behind the words.
51:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe maybe my reading was uh was brilliant, but I think there's probably something in there that was like um a bit like I don't know, you can't, it's difficult to say with meaning, maybe no empathy.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: There's no empathy.
51:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh is what I find in the writing.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: It's like you can't put your finger on it, right?
51:47
SPEAKER_02: But there is it's just a certain style of writing where you're like, how odd.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: It's almost too perfect.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's in like it has its own writing style.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: Like uh, right at the end of that script, there was kind of like his gift, our legacy, or something.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: Which is quite like it always uses that, it always uses that kind of thing.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, here's the kicker.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: Here's the kicker.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and people say that on Instagram reels, you're like, I instantly, yeah.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: I think when anyone on an email uses semicolons correctly, I'm like, what's going on?
52:16
SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, yeah, no one uses semicolons.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's always it always has a specific writing style.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's true for like visuals as well.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Like if you see even adverts on TV that are made with AI, like bingo adverts, it just looks weird.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you'll ever not feel weird for me.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: So where where does does AI have a place in your process?
52:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it's so I don't use it as part of like the creative process.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Like I I will use it as like a spell checker or like to sound some ideas off in terms of like uh variations on a YouTube title, like to to help me get my ideas, but I don't use it to generate content, like everything that you will hear or is or you see is made by me.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not using generative AI to like produce content, but like it's useful to like yeah, tighten up a title that I'm working on, or like to check my script for spelling mistakes.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: So I kind of I'll use it, but I I won't I kind of I won't like rely on it if that makes sense.
53:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm always using it as a sounding board, like someone else say, uh have you got any other ideas about this title?
53:31
SPEAKER_01: And just like checking out different variations and yeah, like it's more of the I would only like consider it in that kind of right at the end of a polishing thing of like um like remove you're just like you know, is is this title working?
53:47
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
53:48
SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately it is kind of going back to early, it's ultimately gut because it can produce something that's perfect but it's quite dead.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: And you can see that on YouTube that people who have uh used Chat GPT titles, it's too perfect.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes YouTube can kind of reward something a bit like idiosyncratic and a bit like characterful because if it's too optimised, I think it's a bit there's something about it that just I don't know, it can it goes back to that head and heart stuff.
54:16
SPEAKER_01: I think you can always kind of feel it.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: You can kind of pick up on like inauthentic content, and there's there's some sort of like you say, either gut or like intuition or something that doesn't feel quite right.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Like there's you know, if it's a an inconsistency between what someone's saying and like the the the kind of conviction that they have with their saying it, like they're reading it rather than actually speaking it, yeah, in a in a sense, like those kind of differences.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think and yeah, like that that inauthenticity, authenticity, I think it's like that is the word of the 21st century.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: It's like how authentic are you?
54:55
SPEAKER_01: And that applies to like politics or it applies to like creation or anything, like if you're if you're making something that feels real, or even if you're just talking to people and there's a sense of a whiff of inauthenticity, it's hard to put your finger on it, but you just don't feel right.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think that is the trick.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: That is the trick.
55:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: How um so how do you do you think that your style will change kind of going forward?
55:21
SPEAKER_00: Are there certain things that you're trying out at the moment that are in the experimentation?
55:27
SPEAKER_01: I am experimenting with really long form videos, but I think that is experiment.
55:32
SPEAKER_01: I try I made a two-hour long video um where I tried to dissect every book of the Bible to kind of like summarise it.
55:39
SPEAKER_01: I think low-key, I'm a bit burnt out from it.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it was like a Magnum opus thing that I'm like, oh, I can't do that.
55:46
SPEAKER_01: Um but hey, you got a comment that is where Bro just dropped his Magnum opus.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna use that line.
55:52
SPEAKER_02: Um I've got your YouTube's channel up here.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: So no, I I I did lit I've I've read, sorry, not read, listened to and watched every book of the Bible explained in one video, which was a journey.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
56:10
SPEAKER_02: I really did enjoy it.
56:11
SPEAKER_02: But I love clicking the popular button.
56:15
SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: Disturbing paintings of Hieronymous Bosch.
56:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Hieronymous is quite dys.
56:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:25
SPEAKER_02: Difficult word for the colour.
56:25
SPEAKER_02: Not good for guys.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my dyslexic brain is like Hieronymous.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: What's that all about?
56:31
SPEAKER_01: So that is uh this artist in the Renaissance, this Dutch guy who made really wacky paintings.
56:38
SPEAKER_01: Like if you if you're you know listening to this show and um you just Google like Hieronymous Bosch, first thing you need to try and spell it.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: Do you know who Horonymous Bosch is?
56:48
SPEAKER_01: I've heard of him, but I'm just double checking, I'm not being thick.
56:53
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it's kind of it's a little bit niche, but basically it's this like Renaissance artist who just went crazy and just did like fantasy like paintings of hell, and they are like demons and monsters, and they're really characterful, but they're super wacky.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: It's like a Where's Wally painting of um the underworld?
57:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was like, I've got to make a video on that.
57:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: What's the name of the artist I have up in my house?
57:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know, but you said when you went so guys, John John William William?
57:24
SPEAKER_02: John something, W something.
57:26
unknown: Yeah.
57:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, I so when I came in uh a month ago, fateful, fateful time, as I was like being a bit poorly sitting there, I noticed the paintings you had on your walls, and I'm like, I've used those images for my videos because there's um I'm gonna say John Marshall, I don't know.
57:44
SPEAKER_01: It's John something.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe I've forgotten.
57:47
SPEAKER_01: Poor John.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: John if you're listening.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what your name is.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: But they're like um one is like a painting from Paradise Lost where it's Satan kind of like rallying the troops of hell.
57:58
SPEAKER_01: That was my Paradise Lost video.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: It's a cool painting.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's cool.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: Um one is of Moses throwing the Egyptians in the sea, got a video on that.
58:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then I can't remember another, but if you need weird paintings, I can I can I can sort you out.
58:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Hieronymous Bosch, I'm gonna have to have a look at his art.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: I love that stuff.
58:16
SPEAKER_02: My girlfriend hates it, she's like, uh, like it's so dark, and I'm like, no, it's really cool.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, get on it.
58:22
SPEAKER_01: It's so I think like there's all that stuff.
58:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh the weirder the better.
58:27
SPEAKER_01: And if it's like a really old painting, like 600 years old, that is just bonkers, you best believe Hoachelaga's on it.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: Have you got have you got any videos that you thought were gonna be massively successful but flopped relative to what you thought?
58:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh loads.
58:45
SPEAKER_01: I've become really okay now with if a video doesn't perform well.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: There wasn't time early on where like you're like, oh no, am I gonna be, you know, is it is it gonna am I gonna pay my rent?
58:56
SPEAKER_01: But now I feel I'm okay with ups and downs.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, because that is just what YouTube is, and that is life, I suppose.
59:03
SPEAKER_01: But um what I have found is if a I made a video about this ancient mosaic that was discovered in like Turkey of a skeleton just like reclining back with a glass of wine, and the line says like below it, like in Greek, like be cheerful, enjoy your life.
59:23
SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, that's quite fun.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: So I did a video about that, but it didn't do that well, and I think it's because it has the word cheerful in the title, because it's a positive coded word.
59:33
SPEAKER_01: You need like memento mori.
59:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, or if it was just like sometimes I feel like if it's if the you know dark Christian relics is a really popular video from last year, inevitably, you know, which one are you gonna click?
59:45
SPEAKER_01: One that says the cheerful skeleton or dark Christian relics.
59:49
SPEAKER_01: I think you're gonna go with the dark one, because that's like fundamentally more interesting.
59:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult to know when something performs and when something doesn't.
59:58
SPEAKER_01: Um it's always in hindsight, but for every big video, there's always a small one.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_01: Um it's my deep cuts.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: If you were to transition to another genre of content on YouTube and like not the war, religion, history, yeah, etc.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: Do you have something that will be a close second?
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like a back of great content.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_01: Um not yet.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to think.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_01: Um I mean quite cool to do like a travel log, so that's quite cool.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just an excuse to go to another country and film.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_01: So maybe maybe that.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: But I think you need a bit of a budget.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_01: Um but maybe it might be quite cool to like journey and go to unusual places and meet really interesting people and kind of get a slice of life and just chat about stuff.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's my new idea.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: And then you can make a Hoch Lager video on the location you went to and the history of it.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_01: I've done one of those before.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, I went to Rome and I went to the little chapel called the Museum of Lost Souls.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's good, that's a cool thing.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_01: Um that's right up your street.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_01: In Rome.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_01: And I went I went on site because I was kind of visiting anyway, uh, and it's like this like little annex in a chapel with like paintings and books with handprints in them, like somebody from beyond the grave has touched them in.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm a bit skeptical personally.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_01: You can see where somebody has like sketched the outline of a hand and kind of crayoned it in.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, who am I to yeah.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's a conspiracy in there, somewhere.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_02: What's it called?
1:01:34
SPEAKER_01: When Jesus died, and then there's a piece of cloth which allegedly has his Yeah, it's called the True Ensroud, and it's got a sort of like face of somebody.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_01: Um I've touched on that a little bit in a video, but maybe there's a big video in there.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_01: Because that is an interesting topic.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: I think Joe Rogan mentioned it back in like 2018.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_02: I uh when I was at school listening to a podcast and they they had some form of can like theologist come in on the podcast and they're discussing if Jesus was real or not, and that comes up.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_02: But I've seen it come up a few times, I've never done enough research into it to it's a bit skeptical.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_01: But but that is an interesting topic, yeah.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_01: Like that going back to like what is a fundamentally interesting idea, like the ultimate place to be, I think, that I found is when somebody knows like a little bit about something, but they need somebody to kind of fill in the gaps.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_01: Um like my Odyssey video, people might know a little bit about the Odyssey, but they'll be like, Well, what's it actually say?
1:02:32
SPEAKER_01: Aside from like the film, which might, you know, however, but the true and trout is a really is something that I've always wanted to cover, and I've got some books that I'm like needing to read.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_01: Because people have heard of it.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_01: This kind of like, is it the face of Jesus on a cloth or is it like a forgery?
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: That there's a video there.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there sure is.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_02: There's some curiosity there from a lot of people.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_02: Um theology.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, God of gaps.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: I did it at the A level.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_02: I think the God of Gaps is something that's always kind of like interesting.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_00: What's the god of gaps?
1:03:06
SPEAKER_02: I thought you would know this, Charlie.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't do any theology.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: I like this, it's a gym podcast.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about God, and I can't.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_02: So I I had a I had a rough time at school.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: I used to be religious, then I went away from Christianity, and then there was a period Christianity really helped me out in my last year.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_02: I had a great theology uh teacher, uh Mr.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_02: Davies, if you're out there.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_02: And um kind of went over the God of Gaps was a topic that really sparked my interest.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: And essentially the theory, well, what it is, is Big Bang Theory came out.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_02: So we're like, oh, that created the new but then what happened before the Big Bang Theory?
1:03:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh, God must be there.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_02: So God is constantly filling in the gaps what science has proven to be true.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_02: And then is it that you truly believe in God if you believe in the science, or are you just believing in God where it fills in the gaps, which science hasn't yet proved what is real and what is not?
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh you might be able to explain it a little bit more.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_02: No, no, totally.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that, yeah, it's like um you can imagine in the earliest days of like imagine us running around like Neanderthals in you know what sooner to become sort of etching and barn gym.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: Like we'd look up at the scar, the sky, and the stars, or the animals, and you'd kind of be like, Well, what's you know, how does the sun and stars do what they do?
1:04:34
SPEAKER_01: That is you'd say is a god or a spirit, but then yeah, over time as like civilization gets going, yeah, like that that room for God as being a viable explanation for stuff, it yeah, it diminishes until now, where like you might outright reject science, or you kind of have a very nuanced point of view where it's like maybe God is like some sort of higher reality that is beyond science or something, but yeah, I don't know.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_01: It's quite it's a bit of a brain teaser.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I do know about that.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I do know about that.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know the name of it.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like when I in my undergrad studying like Latin and like ancient Greek history and and any sort of literature and philosophy and that sort of stuff, they would always reference, they would always um metamorphosize uh these ideas like fortune and love and uh anything else which couldn't be adequately like explained by like rational kind of science.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah, you would have these figures that yeah, anything that um you couldn't understand would be explained by by the gods or a god.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and then you'd have like a more rational, rationalist like movement of trying to explain things, especially you know, like biology and the human body, and a lot through.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: I guess a lot of it will come through um illness.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_00: Like people actually trying to work out like why are people getting sick.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_00: Um which see developments and actual you know preventing illnesses only came about more effectively like over the last like a couple hundred years.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, you definitely have these symbols, um, and you've got like Cupid, you've got gods and goddesses and stuff like that.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's it's it's an interesting is an interesting thing because ultimately it's like it's the uh the bridge between the finite and the infinite in general.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_00: Which I think that is kind of like if I were to reach and to map that like onto the whole AI stuff, is actually what we really want is the we want the gaps, we want the things that aren't able to be explained, like we want the infinite, like the kind of the raw content.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: We don't want the refined, like finite version of it because it's not sufficient for us.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we always want a little bit more.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: Like when you get curious about something, you want like your Turin Shroud, you want a little bit more, and I think that's what makes our species so exciting.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, sounds like I'm an alien saying that.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_01: Makes your species, but like, yeah, like we're all of us are so naturally inquisitive, and like that's what humans are, and that's what we do, and like we're we're never satisfied with info, and now we've got like the internet and like all of human knowledge accessible, like, yeah, yeah, like it still isn't enough.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_01: We're always trying to probe and find stuff, and yeah, like maybe maybe God and all that stuff has been relegated as kind of outer outer realms of that.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_00: It's becoming more popular now, it seems there's a bit of a resurgence of um, I guess we won't go like go too like too much into it, but there's definitely a resurgence of a sort of belief like system and structure.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: I guess the yeah, the thing that I find interesting is a lot of um a lot of our clients, especially my clients, they'll be working in pretty um pretty high up in either big corporate companies, right?
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: Either in insurance or whatever else, finance, whatever, yeah.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_00: And everything is all about implementation of AI, and all of it is really like trying to enhance thinking.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_00: How how do you, as someone that creates content which you do your own thinking, how do you kind of how do you keep that authentic thought?
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: Like if you were to say to someone that has you basically goes to AI for every single thing, looks up every single thing rather than thinking for themselves, yeah, what would you what would you what would how would you give the um the kind of the benefit of just having that authentic thinking for them?
1:08:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like what's what's the the case for YouTubers versus the pitch deck?
1:09:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_01: I guess like um whilst we have that kind of raw appetite for knowledge, I think we also have that appetite for like storytelling.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: Like that is just ingrained in our DNA.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: Like the way we learn stuff is through story.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: Like you, I don't know, I could I could like launch facts at you about the Odyssey and about cyclopses, but I might look crazy.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: Or I can tell you a story about how you know you you go through that.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is something that's so ingrained in all of us that yeah, you could you could go through data and you could read books and you could use AI to get that raw knowledge, or you can kind of sit back and enjoy a story where everything's kind of been done for you.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's the difference between like active knowledge seeking and passive knowledge seeking.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe I'm doing the active stuff to to basically conjure up an interesting story for people.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I think like it's it is interesting you're like uh you know, you might meet people who are further along in their careers who are kind of implementing like AI systems, that's the new big thing.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_01: But it's it is interesting where I guess us young folk fit into the mix because we're the ones who are ultimately gonna have to live with the consequences of AI.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_01: Um but I think we're right.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_01: What could go wrong?
1:10:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_00: But there's already there's already the pullback and banning of social media in schools.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, have you heard about it?
1:10:26
SPEAKER_02: This guy who who who turned up at a data centre and tried to burn it down and said he comes from the future.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_02: No he's got quite a convincing story.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: No, not that.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he has a watch which doesn't appear to be from my joking.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm not a storyteller.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_02: Sounds like what who knows?
1:10:50
SPEAKER_02: But I I think it's gonna be all good with AI as long as we utilize it well and don't I mean uh Alex who works with Anthropic, which is the Claude system.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_00: One of one of Guy's clients.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, one of my clients, he he said when they were producing their most recent system, it was so intelligent, it could just basically hack into any platform and it could go on, it could look at uh, you know, let's say for instance, Angry Birds, the great app, and it could look at it after a minute, it could replicate it and copyright it, and it just copyright anything it sees in an instant.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_02: So they had to build so much into it to stop it basically being so good at replicating information, and you know, you could say, I don't know, uh, here's Call of Duty, the newest one.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_02: Please replicate this game for me, code it all for me, and it would pretty much mirror a copy.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that, you know, last year, or maybe it was start of last year, you we can remember this famous Will Smith video which came out of him eating spaghetti, and it looked all really weird.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, that was 18 months ago.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and now you've got an AI model that can replicate a video game in a matter of minutes.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_02: It's so powerful, and they have to restrict the public using that.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, how long until like how much more intelligent is it gonna get?
1:12:11
SPEAKER_02: And how far much faster is it gonna get?
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: It's exponential, isn't it?
1:12:13
SPEAKER_01: It's like the better it gets, it can you can apply these systems to make more.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not a scientist, but I think that's how I did it.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, totally like it's like the pace of these things.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we didn't in 2020, that's like six years ago, AI publicly wasn't really a thing.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_01: All these things we take for granted now, we're just used to it, and it's gonna be mad in six years' time.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_02: It was what ChatGBT, this first model came out what, just under two years ago?
1:12:45
SPEAKER_02: And and not everyone used it at that point.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_02: It's only really since like start 2025, it's become a lot more mainstream business start integrating it.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_00: I remember it was it started to get noticeable enough that universities were putting in AI checkers uh at the end of my degree, like undergrad, which was 2023.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_00: So that was yeah, nearly three years ago, was when I it would be on my radar with online exams to I mean it's open book, like you could use AI for some of the stuff, obviously not to write things, but to look things up.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_00: Um but that was very, very basic.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_00: Like that was yeah, that was Chat GPT, what, like 2.0 or something.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_02: But it's you know, there's this kind of that's why we're here, right?
1:13:36
SPEAKER_02: Analogue.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_02: We are in person, you're in nature, you're training, a very real human experience.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_02: And I think even on the internet, people want that real human experience still, just online.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's what the problem is with the AI video.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_02: You watch your video, you're like, ah, it's Tommy, you know, and you're like, okay, he's you can tell that you've sat down and spent time creating that video, scripting it, but as soon as you get AI slot now, it's just like I'm not sure.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_02: And some of it's not even slot, but if you've got the ear for it, you can just tell.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, you get my dad saying, Oh, well, look at this video, and I'm like, Yeah, it's AI.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_02: But it's it's heading in an interesting direction.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_02: I think it's gonna revert in the coming years where people get more and more fed up with AI, and people are gonna flip and value human connection more, and there's almost gonna be this lean away from technology.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_02: I think people still use it to assist their lives, and you know, the convenience of communicating with others, like phone calls, but business-wise, people are just gonna be like, no, we don't want to lose staff over writing emails.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_02: We actually just want a human to reply to this.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: There's lots of clips of like because it's like June, end of like school season.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_01: You see loads of clips of universities, you know, have a commencement speech in America where it's like a big AI CEO and people are booing and people are walking out.
1:15:04
SPEAKER_01: There's I think there is a bit of a there is a big pushback against it.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_01: Um whether or not that will like stop things is another question.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think you might be right.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_01: There might be a correction where it won't be in all of our lives, but it'll be in the stuff that we kind of maybe need it to be, like knowing when to put semicolon in or whatever.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like I think you are right in that we always will value human connection.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_01: I think that is just something we can't escape from.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like so wired into us that yeah, coming to the gym is is is like an antidote to that, or all these various things.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_01: I think that yeah, I think there's that people will have a taste for AI in a sort of like it will smell like a whiff of inauthenticity.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think you can't you don't know exactly what it is, but something is wrong about it.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is I think that will always keep us kind of like at arm's length.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_01: I think there's always this like I don't know, this um this feeling inside of us that needs human connection that can sort of see through tech.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm hoping that's gonna be the case.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's almost like the Catholic Church with scientists back in the day, you know.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_02: I think they're a witch.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:16:24
SPEAKER_02: Wait, he's playing, but now.
1:16:25
SPEAKER_02: Can you draw the line?
1:16:27
SPEAKER_02: We're like, well.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_02: The AI is the witch.
1:16:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_02: People hate it a bit, but then it's kind of inevitable that it's going to happen.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, maybe there's not the correlation there, but they're kind of just thinking it through.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_00: No, maybe.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_00: I think it's I think the AI is the is the classic example of like what we think we want versus what we actually want.
1:16:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_00: Like the enhanced games we were talking about.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:16:51
SPEAKER_00: You know the enhanced games?
1:16:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_00: They just go and take loads of drugs and you're like, that would be great.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_00: And then they turn out that they're actually not that better, that much better.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_00: And they're not breaking world records.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_00: You're like, huh, I thought that that was it.
1:17:02
SPEAKER_02: And they invite invited loads of influencers along to watch it, and now it's my invite.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't get invited.
1:17:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, what the hell?
1:17:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, yeah, so like I think that we have all these conveniences in our life, which are great, you know, like we can access knowledge, we can meet people, we can start relationships online.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that whether that's what we we we want that convenience because it makes our lives easier.
1:17:28
SPEAKER_01: But even now, kind of what you were saying earlier, like I think there's a feeling of like that's not good for us, and I'm sure that's what's informing like social media bands for like under 16s, which is happening in the UK.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_01: Like I think there's a sort of feeling of like, yeah, there's all this great stuff, but it's fundamentally maybe not good for us, or not good for like a developing mind, or yeah.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_00: Does YouTube count as social media in that sense?
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, will you be impacted by those regulations?
1:17:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh I guess in theory, yes, but in reality, no, because my you the YouTube app will be banned for like under 16s, but my audience is kind of 18 plus, and they're also half are from America.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_01: The next is from the Philippines.
1:18:15
SPEAKER_01: Really?
1:18:16
SPEAKER_01: That's why we got these nice shirts on.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go come on.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that because you you I realize like the world's a really big place, and um and so so a lot, you know, uh Canada, Australia, a small percentage is the UK, but I won't be affected, but I actually am kind of I'm kind of pro measures to make childhood childhood again.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_01: As in like I don't know, yeah, being being inside kind of that's not that's not childhood.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18:47
SPEAKER_02: And and also just the amount of slop on social media.
1:18:52
SPEAKER_02: You can and if for the uneducated brain, you can just buy into it, especially conspiracy, right?
1:18:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_00: Um what's your content diet like?
1:19:02
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't I don't really watch well, I don't have TikTok at all.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't use Instagram.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_01: I I actually quite reserved about how much I use stuff.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_01: I think mostly podcasts I listen to.
1:19:17
SPEAKER_01: Um but I don't find myself actually watching all that much.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_01: I think I watch YouTube a fair bit, but I think I am quite I don't know.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_01: I think that maybe when I was a teenager I would watch more stuff like that, but I'm I'm personally not up for really ultra short form content just for my own diet, because like I think I hear people saying uh you should get it, it's really addictive, but they're not saying like it's really good, it's really addictive.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um and that kind of freaks me out because it really burrows into your mind and knows you, and that kind of stuff worries me a bit.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_01: So my my my content diet is mostly like podcasts, I'd say.
1:20:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_00: Would you would it be different if you didn't do so much content creation, do you think?
1:20:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
1:20:08
SPEAKER_01: I think I probably would have been not up for ultra short form content.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_01: Um I might have gone on YouTube more if I wasn't a YouTuber because sometimes after work making YouTube videos, going back on YouTube feels like you're at work still, yeah.
1:20:23
SPEAKER_01: Um and you're like still thinking about stuff like when you watch other people's content, I'm inevitably like absorbing title ideas or thumbnail stuff.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_01: So it becomes it becomes like inevitable to have like work thoughts, but nowadays I'm pretty chilled about it.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_01: I can watch YouTube without locking in.
1:20:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:20:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't want to make it another form of form of work.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_00: And I guess it it aligns with your natural way of creating content, which is it's not like you need to go out and do a hell of a lot of research for other it's you know, it's not like you're going out and looking at what other YouTubers are doing so that you can like copy or imitate them or anything like that.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_01: Or I'm not involved in any YouTube drama or anything, it's just I can't, yeah.
1:21:12
SPEAKER_01: No, just it's just me, yeah, yeah, just me doing my videos enjoying life.
1:21:17
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it's a funny old one.
1:21:19
SPEAKER_01: It's it's crazy, even even we even just talking about YouTube, which if you said you're a YouTuber 30 years ago, people are like, What are you talking about?
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: How is that?
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: 20 years ago, impossible, but you can see how much the world has changed.
1:21:31
SPEAKER_01: Where you know we're doing a podcast and we're talking about content online and AI.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be really interesting where we are in like 20 years' time.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_02: Downloading Yeah, we'll be talking about our quantum computers we've just bought.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, robot robot PTs.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, who knows?
1:21:51
SPEAKER_02: It's so hard to predict what the future looks like.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can get AI to do it for us.
1:21:55
SPEAKER_01: Just have our avatars.
1:21:56
SPEAKER_01: You probably could already do that, to have a little avatars, yeah.
1:21:59
SPEAKER_01: We can sit back, go to the beach a little, yeah, t-shirt.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_02: It could just be in the Philippines, this might not be us.
1:22:04
SPEAKER_00: One thing that um I want to ask you is one thing that I want to ask is your process of uh writing is very much go broad, big volume, and then cut back.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_00: You don't perfect it, if that's the right word.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't refine it too early.
1:22:26
SPEAKER_00: Can you talk us through how because I see it in relation to everything, but yeah, talk us through your process.
1:22:33
SPEAKER_01: How I make stuff, basically.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_01: So I think what what really helped me was learning about the 70% rule, which is um if you're gonna do something, do it just to 70% of your best.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_01: Because, and it sounds weird because you want to do your best all the time, but for some reason, just trying to perfect things really stools progress.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_01: You can sort of have a writer's block where you're staring at a screen and you're kind of like, oh gosh, I need you know, I need to write the first sentence perfectly.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_01: So, what I do is I might actually have like the 40% rule to start off with and just chuck stuff on a page because the hardest stuff is just to start.
1:23:13
SPEAKER_01: So I try and get rid of thoughts about whether this is good or not.
1:23:17
SPEAKER_01: I just what matters is I've got stuff to work with.
1:23:20
SPEAKER_01: So a writing process will be I write like a madman, I just go crazy, and I can write like a few thousand words in a day, and it is unreadable, completely unreadable.
1:23:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I'll do that again for another day, and then I'll look at what what I've got and I'll just start plucking sentences, tidying up sentences and perfecting words, and then like I've got like a bones of a script, and then I find it way easier to then edit something that's pre-existing.
1:23:48
SPEAKER_01: So then I've done the hard work for me.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_01: It's mostly just editing at that point.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, but so yeah, once I've once I've kind of chucked stuff up, then I can take that percentage up to 80%, 90%, and finally 100%, where I'm like fully happy with it.
1:24:02
SPEAKER_02: And how long are you how long can you sit there and just churn out these scripts?
1:24:08
SPEAKER_02: Um because I wouldn't even call that a script to start with, right?
1:24:10
SPEAKER_02: That's more just information.
1:24:12
SPEAKER_01: It's like notes and stuff, yeah.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_01: Um I well I guess I would that's what I've done all week this week, like 9 to 5, maybe actually because I sometimes will start early, so like 7:30 till 5, have a lunch break, and then go crazy and write a lot.
1:24:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I get really tired afterwards because I'm using my brain so much.
1:24:36
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, the writing process is quite fun because that's what that's like it's full of potential.
1:24:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like you could do whatever you want here.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think that's it's such a good approach because you can get bottlenecked into trying to perfect too early.
1:24:50
SPEAKER_00: Like you can try in the same in the same way in the in the gym and fitness side of things, it's like just the some of the rep ranges, like you do high rep ranges to start with just so you get a bit more practice in, and then you only edit later on, yeah, or with like running form, is just go and run and run a bit more and then maybe edit down the line.
1:25:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't try and uh you know refine the word count or don't try and refine the technique before you've even started doing like the reps.
1:25:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
1:25:20
SPEAKER_01: Like that the hardest thing sometimes is just showing up and just getting yourself here or getting yourself anywhere on a running track or just getting a habit.
1:25:30
SPEAKER_01: Like if you make it as easy for yourself as you can, just do really anything, then you can just build on that.
1:25:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think that I've taken that into my own work, but also just for as much as I can kind of for life in general, just do something, doesn't have to be good, just do anything, and then often it it's it's like a snowball process that gets better and better.
1:25:52
SPEAKER_00: Have you got things that remove friction in your routine to get started?
1:25:57
SPEAKER_00: Like get started writing.
1:26:00
SPEAKER_01: I guess like um I it really is just a conscious process of like knowing when there's an invalid part of my mind that wants to perfect things, it's just been like I I don't need that right now, I just need to chuck stuff on the page.
1:26:13
SPEAKER_01: So I don't think I have like any tricks at this point, but maybe in the past it was more of a conscious thing, but now I can like just go kind of mad with it and like lock in.
1:26:25
SPEAKER_01: Um but I think it's just it's just that 70% rule, which is just really great.
1:26:30
SPEAKER_01: I feel like yeah, because also what is 70% for me it might look really good for other people because everyone's their own harshest critic when it comes to like evaluating their own work.
1:26:40
SPEAKER_01: So I think I think yeah, just kind of knuckling in and going for it is the best thing I can do, yeah.
1:26:47
SPEAKER_01: Get it done, get her done.
1:26:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, Tommy, thank you so much.
1:26:51
SPEAKER_00: It's such a pleasure, thank you so much.
1:26:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've covered a lot of ground here.
1:26:54
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
1:26:55
SPEAKER_01: Nature of God, the existential threat of AI, Jim.
1:26:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's all we need.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_00: We've got the voice over in there, we know about old Romanian deadlift, hard to pronounce name.
1:27:05
SPEAKER_00: Two yeah, you nailed that second one.
1:27:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah, that second name.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_02: I think it's tingling all over my body when I get that.
1:27:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, well, you you guys are hard.
1:27:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh if you want to help out with my Odyssey video, uh yeah.
1:27:19
SPEAKER_02: I would love to come and see the process behind one of your videos.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_02: It'd be really interesting to see.
1:27:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, best of luck this evening.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for 10k.
1:27:30
SPEAKER_01: Get under that scene.
1:27:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be there barking at you.
1:27:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll be there.
1:27:33
SPEAKER_02: I'll win it, win it, get a gold medal.
1:27:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, awesome, brilliant.
1:27:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
1:27:38
SPEAKER_02: Cheers.
1:27:39
SPEAKER_02: Bye bye, bye bye bye.