Latest / Choppin’ It Up by Bloomberg Intelligence / Cultivated Meat Offers Taste and Sustainability

Transcript

Cultivated Meat Offers Taste and Sustainability · Choppin’ It Up by Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Chopping it Up. I'm your host, Mike Hallen.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I'm the senior restaurant and food service analyst and Blue
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Burned Intelligence. Our research and all of the research written
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: by our five hundred colleagues around the globe can be
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: found exclusively on the Bloomberg terminal. Today, we're joined by
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Don Lowning, founder and chief technical officer at Meetable, a
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Dutch food technology company that produces cultivated meat. Thanks for
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: doing this.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Don, excellent, Well, very happy to be here.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been looking forward to this. You had some
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: big news yesterday. Meetable has a new CEO.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: We're definitely looking to expand in the US and having
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: an American board will definitely help with that.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Very cool. All right, So let's start with the basics here.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: What is cultivated meat?
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Cultivated meat like really in a nutshell, because I can
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: do the two and a half hour explanation or I
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: can do like the thirty second explanation, let's start with
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: that before we dive into two more intricate topics. It's
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: basically meat, but then without killing an animal.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: So what we do is.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: We take a very small piece of the animal so
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: the building blocks of life is cells, and we know
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: how to keep these cells alive beyond the animal's body.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: We place it into a protected environment because without the
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: entire animal, they're pretty fragile. And then we need to
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: feed it similar stuff that you would feed an animal,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: but then broken down in very small pieces so it's
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: easily absorbed for the cells. And cells have this unique
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: ability to duplicate. You're duplicating. I'm duplicating. Our cells are
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: duplicating all the time. So d cells do that too,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: And by feeding them glucose, amino acids, vitamins, all the
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: stuff that an animal died, they replicate themselves. And when
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: we have enough of these cells then is when we
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: turn them into muscle fat. So you're actually creating real
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: animal muscle, real animal fat. So basically porchop, steak, sausages,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: what have you, so that we can reduce the amount
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: of resources that we need to produce the meat that
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: we love.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Very cool, that's basically it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Very cool.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: All right cool.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about your career before Meetable and what
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: inspired you to start the company?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: It's quite an interesting road. It's also unique to the
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Netlands because we have a pretty cool educational system. It's
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: built up in levels and once you have finished a
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: certain level, you can apply to the next one. So
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: this is how I developed myself because I wasn't a
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: particularly good high school student.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Wasn't very interested in learning, wasn't very interested in being
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: top of the class. It was what I didn't.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: I didn't found the topic that I could dive into
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: and emerge myself in. So I did short stint in
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: the army, short stint in it, and then I found
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: cell biology.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And basically that was it for me.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Sealbology and I go go hand in hand. So I
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: studied molecular biology for as a technician, and then I
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: did a bachelor's molecular medical biology and I ended up
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: doing a Masters in science based business, so seeing how
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: scientific development could be translated into into inventions for for consumers.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: And during that development, I came into contact with two
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: people basically that inspired me to go down this road.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: The first one was Anthony Ethela. He's a professor in
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: tissue engineering and he was at a he did a
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: TED talk where he showed that he created a bladder
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: for a chronically ill patient and cured him.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: And I was so inspired hired. I was like, WHOA,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I'm a cell biologist, I can do this.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So I set up my trajectory to become a tissue engineer,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: so to understand how to take seals from people to
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: make to make organs to repair if there's damage. And
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: through that development in academia, I found a unique program
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: that was done here in the Netlands, where I'm from
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: and where a professor from the town of gold Maastricht.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: It's very hard to pronounce, I'm sure you can hear it,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: but it's in the Sudden part of the Netlands and
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: here is where he had the idea to use animals
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: themselves to create muscle ef fat.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: And I knew these type of skills right.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: So he did a lecture at the university that I
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: was working at the time, and I walked up to
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: him and said, hey, I know how to grow sales,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: I know how to make tissue from this.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Is there an opportunity for me here to participate?
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: And he said yes, So then I moved to his
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: lab started doing the work there, and in twenty thirteen
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: is where they presented the very first school to miet
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Hamburg in the world, and that basically set me up
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: for this trajectory to develop this field. Really from the
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: ground up. We were five people in the lab doing
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: this work. You know, it was at the time, it
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: wasn't red carpet treatment.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't have probably got the invite to
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: speak to you here. It was more pitchforks and torches.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: But really something happened between twenty thirteen twenty eighteen. One
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: of the things, of course, is I moved to the
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: States to help a nonprofit organization to expand this field
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: by getting donations in and funding academic research.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: But the other thing that.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Happened is that the mindset about climate contribution from different
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: sectors evolved. It really was for energy cars that was
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: the big focus, and then suddenly agriculture came me to
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: the picture. People just became aware that animals aren't very
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: good at using resources to produce food, that furtile is
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: can have a harmful effect in the environment, that the
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: way that we are keeping animals and the amount of
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: animals that we have is not going to be sustainable
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: for the future. So that's where beyond meat and all
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: the plant based alternatives also had a podium to develop
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: their ideas and their products, and also cultivated meat became
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: became part of that, and especially now that we see
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: that not too many people adopt a completely plant based diet,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: we think we have a huge opportunity here to give
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: people a product that they love because we're producing globally
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty million tons of meat every year.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: And for people that have a hard time enjoying a
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: continuous basis of plant based alternatives, we think we can
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: provide them the same stuff that they're usually it, but
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: then without the impact on the environment.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, And I could tell the passion you
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: have for this business and you know what they say, right,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: do something you love and you never have to work
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a day in your life.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, all right, great?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So what makes Meetable's products and its manufacturing process unique
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: compared to other cultivated meat companies.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Cells have rules. You know, there's been a couple of.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Billion years of millions of years of evolution on how
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: cells operate, and just wishing upon a star that a
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: cell suddenly wants to do the thing that we want
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: them to do is not going to happen.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: So we need to work in the language of cells
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: to be able to make use of them. In the
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: way that we want to do right.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: In this case, we only want them to become muscle,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: only want them to become fat. And this is of
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: course not what the cells want to do. They want
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: to create a pig or a cow or a chicken
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: or any other species.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So we need to.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Help them to first multiply a lot and then turn
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: them efficiently into muscle fat.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And that's a trick that we as that nobody else as.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: We have a unique cell type that can grow very well,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: and then we have a breakthrough technology in the field
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: of stem cell biology that allows us to very rapidly
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: turn these cells into muscles fat.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: And that's basically in a nut show. You can go
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: really deep into.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: How bioprocess engineering works, but it's really understanding, Hey, we
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: have a cell that can grow very well, and we
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: have a method of turning them very rapidly into muscle
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: and fat, and that is necessary to make this economically
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: viable because if you don't have those two recipes, it's
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: going to be very, very tough to do this on
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: a large scale.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: How long does a product take to develop.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: The funny thing about this is that skill doesn't matter
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: for the speed of the process. If you do this
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: at a one leader skill or ten thousand liters skill,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: these these cells do this thing in the same rate.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: So our current process, which eventually is going to be
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: like a continuous harvesting process, and it's it's quite difficult
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: to imagine that if you're like siphoning off parts of
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: the cells to turn into the second phase of becoming
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: muslim selles. So first grown phase and then going to
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: the second phase. You can do this in a continuous manner.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: But right now it's about eleven days total, so it's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: a grown period and then turning them into muscle fatdoughes
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: a total of eleven day cycle.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, and you have plans it sounds like to try
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to speed that process.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're continuously doing development right that.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: That's that's the core of our business. The shorter we
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: can make this process, the more efficient it will become,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: the last cost lead will become, and then the easier
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: it is for people to adopt this worldwide. Because the
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: first thing that people really care about is taste. That's one,
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: you know, if it doesn't taste good, nobody will buy it,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter how cheap it is.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: But the second one is cost.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: You know, if you have a product that is priced
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: so far above a product that you can buy in
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: a supermark, nobody wants to buy it. So those two
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: ingredients are critically important to convince people that this is
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: all also a product for them and that they can
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: just consume on a.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Daily basis for sure.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: So in addition to price and taste, plant based meat
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: never really appealed to me personally because it's processed, it
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: contains ingredients. I try pretty hard to avoid our meatable
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: products processed anymore than a traditional meat product. And did
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: they spoil at the same rate as meat we buy
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: from the grocery store today.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So right now we're making sausages since we cannot make steak.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Steak is really hard to make, right we're moving, we're
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: doing development towards that, but for now, sausages. We think
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: it's a good product to get to market first with
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: because a lot of people eat sausages. You will be
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: surprised on the amount of sausages people consume on a
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: daily base.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Listen, I'm a bit of sausage, so yeah, oh.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So good, right, so good.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: But it will be the first product and then eventually
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: see how we can diversify from that and there the
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: second quick part of the question was of the shelf life,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: and there you can split up the shelf life criteria
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: into two sections. One is microbial decay and the one
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: is product decay. And microbial decay you can imagine that is,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: you know, any bacteria or fungus or anything that can
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: organism spoiling the product that you have and can make
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you sick, right, very serious thing. You have listeria as
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: someone ella cola, you know, the usual suspects that people
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: are afraid of.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And can make you very very sick.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: But the other one is product decay, and that's just
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: imagine an apple being a little bit dried out and wrinkly.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: You can still eat it, it's fine, there's no bacteria
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: or fungus in it that makes you sick, but it's
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: just not as delicious anymore. And on that point, we
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: are similar to meat. You know, we're still making we're
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: making the exact same thing. So it will also the
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: product decay of that will also it over time. So
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: you can probably see, you know, if you go to
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: the supermarket you see a steak in the package, it
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: will go brownish over time.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Is oxidation happens with us as well because it is meat.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: But then for the fungal or the microbial decay, there's
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: where we have an advantage because our process is completely
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: contained to keep everything out and therefore we don't have
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: contact with ecola, don't have contact with this area because
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: these come usually from the guts of the animals or
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: something that you know, the animal brings in into the
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: processing plant. And in our case, you know, since we
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: don't use an entire animal, just part of it, we
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: don't have to pow.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: That's really really interesting, all right, great, and does the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: product contain one hundred percent cultivated meat or other other ingredients?
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: There are other ingredients, and like I said, we're not
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: making steak, we're not making a fully structured product. We're
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: making a muscle ingredient and a fat ingredient, and then
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: we have to mix into batter. Especially for sausages, this
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: is usually done either with a with potato starch or
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: any other binder to make that put it into the shape,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: to make it easy to place into a sausage casing.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: So that's why it's always going to be a mixture
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: in the beginning, but only when you're going towards steaks,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: then you're you're going to go to one hundred percent
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: cultivated product, But it's not what we're.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Doing right now.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned taste, and that's obviously been the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: other hurdle for plant based meat. Would I be able
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: to taste the difference between say hamburger and cultivated hamburger.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Not at all.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: The thing that you're making is actually one hundred percent
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: similar to what an animal makes. So this is I
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: think the biggest value add of our product, since it
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: is the same stuff, but then without the impact on
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: the environment, I think a lot of people will be
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: more open to this type of the type of products.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Like you said.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Yourself, plant based is as a moderate meat consumer, it's
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: very hard to put this in your regular diet because
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: it's not as appealing as a real deal. The cooking experience,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: the eating experience, all these things come together in a
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: product that is pretty good by itself. Right you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: if you go twenty years back, the thing that you
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: could get, which was a vegan or vegetarian restaurant, wasn't
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: very good. But right now it evolved a lot, but
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: still not enough yet to become a regular staple in
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: people's diet, and we had a big farmer and on
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: our premises to see what was going on. You know,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: he wanted to understand how his role in the future
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: might look like. And he was actually quite surprised on
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: how much of a taste our product brings and how
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: easy for him is for him to accept that this
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: is normal meat. And I think there's where we will
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: win overheart. The first bite that people have, that's the
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: moment when their brain registers, oh, yeah, this is just
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: this is just a hamburg this is just a sausage.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: So that is really important to us, and that's why
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: we had the first tastings in the Netlands. European regulations
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: can be quite tricky, but the Dutch government helped us
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: by allowing us to taste as a product with a
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: couple of experts to really understand, hey, what are we missing,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: what to be improved because those, of course we can
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: say it's delicious, but I would love to have a
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: person that actually understands it, can validate what we're doing here.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: And he gave us a great feedback. We had some
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: interviews and also the journalists had to buy it. I
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: think Forbes was there and some other people from the
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: UK and also Dutch journalists were there and they're all
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: overwhelmingly convinced that this will have a place on people's plates.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Good stuff, and so the mouthfeel is the same.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. You can even see because it's real animal fat.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: So if you cook it, you can see its sizzling,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: the way it looks, the way it smells. And our
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: product developer always says the cooking is half of the experience.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: There is also a quarter of it buying it. You
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: look at the store, you look at the products like,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: oh this looks nice. It doesn't look as nice, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: you always like a little picky. You can actually see
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: it when there's left over product that it always looks
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: a little bit weird and that's why people leave it alone.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: But then you buy it, you unpack it, you put
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: it in the pan. It also gives the experience with
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: the smells and and the sounds that.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: It make, and only like a small portion.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Eventually at the end of it is eating it, because
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: eating is how much time does that take?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Like maybe five to ten minutes when you consume it.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: But all the process before is where you actually make
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: the decisions and actually you you gain new confidence and
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: the the desire to eat it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: That's great, very cool. So all right, you mentioned sausages first,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: what meat is next?
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: So we were doing product development on a daily basis.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: I think the last batch that we made was also
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: pepperoni to see if we could put it in pizzas.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: We made dumplings, even pulled pork and so really the
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: odd the possibilities are endless. Of course, unless you get
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: into like the really steak and the pork chops, then
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: things become a bit more challenging because it's like very
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: thick and complex structure actually if you look at the
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: muscle from animals.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: But beyond that, yeah, hamburgers.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I think think also there's a local element to it
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: because if I would start selling bradwortht in China, for example,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know how well it would resonate.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Well, if I go to the States, all American hot dog, hey,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: I think I think that would would be a hit,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: But dumplings maybe not so much. So really it is
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: about finding local partners to understand the the palette of
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: the of the environment and see what people actually want
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: to eat. And even in the States, I can imagine
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: that you know, Texas, New York, Michigan. All have different
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: prefaces when it comes to what types of food they
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: are looking for when they go out to eat.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you mentioned some regulatory issues some things
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: in Europe. Where where are your manufacturing facilities?
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: So right now we have a big R and D
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: facility here in the Netherlands. And I think that's why
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: the new hire in the States is going to be
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: so critically important because we are looking to actually go
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: to the US with manufacturing.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: We have another manufacturing plant in Singapore.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Singapore has really taken a step forward with acquiring new
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: food production technologies. They don't produce most of their food themselves,
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: so that's why they want to see if they can
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: change that. They have this law that called thirty by
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: thirty where they want to produce thirty percent of their
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: food themselves by twenty thirty. And since they don't have
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: any agricultural land or any means of producing like large
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: volumes of food in a standard way, they're looking at
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: processes like precisive fermentation, like cultivated meat to be able
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to supply their population with food themselves instead of just
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: importing everything.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, and are you doing the manufacturing yourself or using
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: a copacker core packers to help you with that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, only only at the end, that's where we can
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: easily fit into the normal supply chain of meat.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: But before that is where, of.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Course our biggest contribution is right understanding and productions the facility.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: But then we prefer to have somebody in the States
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: that can help us. We're building and maybe operating.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Because we can only do so much.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: We have limited amount of people, limited amount of resources,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: and since this field and market is so crazy big,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: it's so immense. Only in the Netlands have We're like
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: eighteen million people. We consume two and a half million
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: kilograms of meat every day. These are staggering amounts. So
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: thinking that we can do everything ourselves completely vertically integrated,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: it's not going to happen. You need so much help
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: around the world to make sure that you can produce
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: enough fast enough so that people can start enjoying this.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: So everywhere we're reaching out, we're thinking very broadly where
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: we can find partners to help us out to start
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: manufacturing all over the world.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Sense, and then you're still protecting your proprietary information by
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: doing the important stuff in house.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, when do you expect to get the product into
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the US.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: As soon as possible.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: As soon as possible, we've been having conversations with American
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: relicatory authorities since we already filed last year in Singapore,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: we had some experience with that which was very warmly
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: received because you know, if you're doing this for the
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: first time, there's a lot of learning. So if you're
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: come prepared, it's a much nicer conversation. Instead of they
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: have to educate you, you're helping them understand what you
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: are doing, which is unique. So that was really nice.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So hopefully next year the year afterwards, we're really hoping
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: that we can we can also have some product in
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: the market in the US.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Do you have plans yet in terms of who you
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: plan to sell to? You know, I know typically packaged
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: food companies will sell at retail first because it's higher margin.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, we saw the plan based meat companies
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: kind of flip that and go to food service first,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: sell into restaurants first. Do you have any thoughts about
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: how you'd like to do it here in the United States?
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: We do, and I think that the same route as
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the plant based folk had did. I think it will
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: also be the similar right that we are taking the
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: moment that people interact with a new product.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: It's much easier if it.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Comes in a well prepared and controlled environment, right A
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: chef can make it nice and do something special with
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: it so that the first point of contact is positive.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: You know, not everybody can cook as well.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: So if you buy a product from retail, you've never
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: experienced it and you're putting in a pen and you're
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: expecting maybe you're expecting it beyond meatburger, but it will
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: cook very differently and then you eat it and like, well,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I didn't cook it right.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And then your experience is negative.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: So we would prefer to have a chef that makes
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: something nice locally to give people the first positive experience
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: with our products. So that's why I think restaurants will
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: be the first bone of contact for a lot of
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: people eating this product.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed to raise awareness pretty quickly for the
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: plant based meat companies. You know, there issue was being
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: able to sustain that initial trial and turn that into
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: long term demand.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: And also what will be crucially important is if we
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: do go to you know, to a big retailer, they
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: expect a lot of product and in the beginning will
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: be limited we're not able to produce the millions of
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: kilograms early on. This will be installed capacity over time.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: So that's why restaurants gives a much softer landing because
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: you know, they don't sell as much meat as a
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: as a huge Walmart, for example, would, So that's why
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: it's nice that you can get customer feedback and get
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: people in customs with the product, and then build a
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: production facility and capacity to meet demand over time.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you mentioned you'd like to to be kind
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: of in line in terms of price with me. You know,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: do you think that when you eventually enter the United
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: States it will be priced around the same and you
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: have the ability, you think, over time, to make it
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: even cheaper.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I think so that is at least what we're aiming for.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: But in the beginning it won't be.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Like I said before that the skill doesn't really matter
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: for the time.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Of the process.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Eventually, we want to create a continuous process that has
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: a turnover four days, and then if you can skin
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: it really big, then you can bring costs down. This
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: product will really benefit from economy or skill. So in
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: the beginning it will be in the premium because we're
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: not at the skill where we want to be. We
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: still need to do optimizations, we still need to do
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: cost reductions. So that's why I think restaurants are a
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: little bit more forgiving because you can make an entire distion,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: then you know, you can ask a premium for that.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: But eventually we want to.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Make sure that people all of the world can buy
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: this and just have it as a choice in a supermarket.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I'm never here to tell people what to do. I'm
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: just providing them with an alternative. And if you are
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: considering alternatives, the price is a big one. So if
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: we cannot reach cosparity, it will be very difficult to
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: make the impact that we as a company have set
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: out to do.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, and you know, is there a lot of concern
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: on your end over cultivated meat bands? And I guess
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: what can the industry do to help educate consumers.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Well, conversations like this already helps you know that, I
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: think is a good start. Sometimes it's really informing a
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: person by person. My my favorite audiences are hairdressers because
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: I'm there anyway, cannot move, and they usually make small
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: toxic hey what do you do? And then I try
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: different types of pitches to them to see what resonates
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, some some are very surprised, some
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: are very interested. And I think that will be in
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: general the overall response of this of this idea. Some
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: will like it, some won't like it. But it's the
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: same with everything, right, and especially since so many people
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: consume this product, I don't need everybody to like it.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I just need enough people to like it to really
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: make sure that people start to get familiar with it.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: So unfortunately, through misinformation, bands are a thing, but it's
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: not as serious as sometimes the media has made it
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: out to be. It just really just concerns that people
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: want to know more and then using this as a
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: stepping stone to say, hey, but we're not sure about
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: this product yet, and like that's fine, we'll we'll bring
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: you there, right. Sometimes the one conversation at the time.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not going to be spread in the news
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: about meutable at a hairdresser or barber anytimes. Sorry about that.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe the local butcher logo butcher.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, listen, options are a wonderful thing,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: and this is obviously a fascinating option. How long do
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you think it will take for more widespread adoption of
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: the product.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: That's A. That's a that's a difficult question because it
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: really is.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: It really depends on what you mean with that, because
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: if you are asking when will every supermarket in America
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: have this product.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: It will take a while.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Just because of the sheer volumes of this product. Right,
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: It's it's crazy. It is absolutely wild, the amount of
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: meat that people consume. So saying, hey, when then everybody
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: can walk into a supermarket and find a product. I
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: don't know, but when enough people at least tried it once,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: when in five years at least we expect it for
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: everybody that wants to have at these tried it once.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: It's really exciting, man, Thank you, Yeah, very exciting. This
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: was fun. This is I learned a lot today, really
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: interesting stuff. So thank you again for doing this. Where
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: can the audience go to find out some more about meutable.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Uh, the website metable dot com is where we post
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: all the news around what we've been doing, and also
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: conferences where I'm speaking because I do go out a
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: lot telling people about this idea because we live.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: In a bubble.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I think everybody knows about cultivated meat because I've
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: been doing this for ten years, but also getting out
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: into real world and asking people about what they think
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: you feel is what I also love to do and
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: that's why I also go to really from everything to
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: pop talks, to buy tech conferences, to food conferences and
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: everything in between.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: So definitely stay tuned. Most of the time.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: We propost those on LinkedIn, and if you want to
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: see me talk about us on stage, you can find
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: us there.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: All right, good stuff and a big thanks to the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: audience for tuning in. If you liked the episode, please
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: share it with your friends and colleagues. Check back soon
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: for a conversation with Lauren Fernandez, the founder and CEO
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: of Full Course