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Alexander Moore The Hex Doctor · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode, I
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: got my man, Jenda Ninja with me and we got
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: a new guest on, Alexander Moore, the Hex Doctor. But
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: before we introduce Alexander, we got Jenda Ninja, who's gonna
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: remind you where where you can find all his amazing
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: work and in case you haven't heard about him yet,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: listen to where he's going to tell you to go
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: check out his stuff.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks boss, mister ninety three, appreciate it. As always, I
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: always love coming on the show. And thanks to alex
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of course, because he and I recorded a very long form,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: very discursive, maybe a little fiery, but very interesting, very
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: interesting episode that I'm really looking forward to. I had recently.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I had Paul Frederick on from the Demonosofti podcast, as
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: well as Gregory Peters, who just wrote the new a
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: On Contra. So obviously if you followed me, you know
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: that I'm interested in the a on of Mott workings,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: but I don't use that framework. But anyways, I just
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: dropped an episode today on the Kabbala of Cool World,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety four film. So I've done a long
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: form five part series on Ralph Bokshie and sort of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: the speculative kabala of the entire thing with my friend
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Eric who's also a podcaster, and so that's been really cool,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: and so that dropped if people are interested, and you
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: can find me at twycm Reborn on Twitter, x wuko
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and g Reborn. Of course Threshold Saints, Spotify, Apple, anywhere
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts at Threshold Saints on x Twitter
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: as well as ig and of course our Metamagic show,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: which is speculative narcissism every Friday night Friday Night and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: not sing Mass as we call it, although sometimes we
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: do series as well. But you can check us out
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: at the True Gray Lodge dot com which is t
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: r ve gray Lodge dot com, as well as our
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: YouTube channel, which I ask everyone to like and subscribe,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and uh pretty much that's what that's what we're up to,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and you can check out all our other co hosts.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Matt has joined the panel permit like full time now
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and so I think it's great. I think like check
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: out Matt Murra, checkout Joshua the Branch, and check out
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Sollar exile and Mike of course. So yeah, this is
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the five of Us and can we we do a
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: little rock and roll?
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, definitely. I definitely suggested go take out those spaces,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: very very well done. Good stuff too. And uh finally, Alexander, sir, please,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: uh first time on the show. Let everybody know where
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: they can find your stuff and uh give maybe give
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: them a little bit of an idea of like what
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: your show is about and what you do.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so you find me on practical ocult dot com.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: I'm one half of it. My business partner Allison. She
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: makes the solemonic panicles, the pgm amulets, all that stuff
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: which you can purchase if you so choose. I do
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: the divination spell work for higher pedagogy, personal student instruction,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: and pre recording courses of all sorts. If you want
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: to find me on Instagram, I'm at the hex Doctor.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I often say the Practical Occult. If you read anything
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: I write there is very above board. The hex Doctor
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: is Practical Occult after Dark where I got, I get unhinged,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I got memes, I got dreams. You know, maybe you'll
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: like it, maybe you won't. If you don't that's Ah,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: that's your problem on mine, because you know I'm I'm
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I'm here to be I'm here to be dedicated. I'm
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: gonna be starting a sub staxtuone which is going to
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: be even more unhinged. The deeper you go, the weirder
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: it's going to get. Uh like that in general, man, Like,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: that's it's my thing. My thing is magic that works
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: and getting better at it sounds good.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I like the way that sounds all right. Uh So,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I mean regular question that always seems to be yes
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: to me whenever I go on a new show, So
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I might as well just go with the same thing.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: What was it that I guess got you to even
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: get into the occult or so entertaining that stuff?
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: My dad does it? Yeah, Like my father's a solemnonic
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: magician and a folk magician. You know. When I was
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: thirteen because when things growing up, I always knew that
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: magic was real because he proved it. That was the
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: biggest thing. He proved it to me. He was like,
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I don't want you to think that this is fake.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: I don't want you to think of them making shit up.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: And he would be like, tell me to do something,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: what do you want and he would do it and
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: it would always happen. He'd be like, tell me what
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: you need to know, and he could know things that
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: he shouldn't be able to know. He was able to
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: do all this shit. And he was like, when you're thirteen,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: you get to start too. And I'll tell you, man,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: between ages twelve and thirteen, I was chomping at the
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: fucking bit, you know what I mean.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: I was doing everything I could to get there. And again,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: you know, looking back, having the live wire of like
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: real magic in my hands as a hormonal teenager, probably
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: not the uh, probably not the best thing for like,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: you know, living a normal, less unhinged life. But he
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: didn't really give a shit and that's how I got started.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: And from there I met teachers that either knew him
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: or I would do magic to meet other teachers, you know,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: ask spirits to bring me mentors and things. And it's
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: been a lifelong obsession for twenty four years now.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Nice. Oh wow, that's a long time. Actually, yeah, some
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: amount of time, dude. Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: to hit me with the folk magic. I mean, you
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: mentioned that earlier too. What would you consider for the
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: listeners who mean not actually, because I don't think I've
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: really ever had anybody on for folk magic. What would
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: be your, I guess definition of folk magic for people?
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: So it's it's defined very differently, honestly, just set at
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: the risk of being a little bit spicy. Depending on
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: how political a person is, you're going to get a
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: different answer you're gonna get, you know. And again it's
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: from from from my perspective. When I say folk magic,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: what I mean is things like candle magic, make poppets,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: making charm bags, doing things like that, But it goes
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: a little deeper than that in a more operative, animistic fashion. Now,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: the biggest thing is regionally in the United States, you're
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: gonna have different kinds of folk magic. So most people
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: when they hear about like folk magic, the thing about
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: who do now? Who do? Suffers from not a lie
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: but an academic distortion. So Harry Hyatt wrote his Higatt
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: material and that became the only written idea for a
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: long time on who do So people associated with Delta
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: regional who do now? If you study who do for
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: example in Macon, Georgia, which I did, and in various
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: parts of Appalachia, you'll see entirely different systems. There's a
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: book called American Shamans by a guy called Jake Richards
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: who interviews in the seventies a bunch of practitioners of
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: conjure folk magic who do work. It's all different words
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: for the same thing. People hate me for saying that,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: but it is, and you will see a lot more
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: focused on out of body experiences, psychic development, speaking to
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: the spirits within things as opposed to simply I'm going
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: to light a candle. Now, don't get me wrong. A
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: good folk magician, you don't want them burning a candle
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: on you because they can hurt you. The biggest thing
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: that I would say about folk magic that people lose
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: out on is the depth of it, and that can
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: be found the example of putting live things in somebody,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: The idea of producing physical snakes, worms, parasites in a
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: person that they vomit up using only magic.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I have heard of it.
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  Speaker 3: This is a thing that has been documented in the
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: US newspapers forever. In fact, some of our earliest poisoning
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: laws are as a result of slaves making human figures
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: of somebody and praying over them, because a spiritual poison
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: was considered and ought to still be considered as genuine
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: as a physical one. Now, this also dovetails in the
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: most cases into like solomonic magic, because a lot of
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: people will use the Greater Key of Solomon as a
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: broad framing right structure for their folk magic. So the
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: enchantment you do before you summon or before you consecrate
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: the pentacles, and the stuff you do directly after, if
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: you bookend your folk magic with that, it boosts its power,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: right because you're calling on several different forces to bring
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: it in. If you add folks, if you add planetary
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: hours to your folk magic even more right, it all
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: scales up all towards the purpose of once again your
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: shit working.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: You. Uh No, I have like a few questions here
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: when it comes to folk magic. Would you also consider
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: that almost something that's like very uh, it's very much
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: in like the area that you're from.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Almost, Yeah, I mean it could be, so I would
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: argue that it once was more now than it is
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: because the area that we're from is the fucking Internet, right,
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: like like like yeah, if you find like an old
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: head in the game, they'll tell you that you should
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: go and learn the bioregion where you live or where
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: you're from, go learn what the herbs do and stuff,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: and you should. That's great to do, right, But in reality,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: and this is where I get a lot of people
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: kind of fucked up. Is like this more than just
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: the roots and herbs. Ideas can be can promises can
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: be conjured. For example, everyone knows if they get a
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: piece of your hair, some of your blood, some of
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: your skin, they can work you. But if you make
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: a promise, you gave them part of yourself. If you
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: send a nude, you gave them part of yourself.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: If someone gets their hands on your natal chart, they
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: got they got you, they got the moment you were born.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: They can conjure you. They can work you, to quote
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: an old teacher of mine, pick you up, put you down,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: turn you all the way around, and they can. Right.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: But the thing is, you're from the Internet. I remember
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: being a kid and thinking to myself, you know, oh,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: well shit, you know, I can't get a hold of
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: someone's picture. But then MySpace happened, and I remember a
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: teacher might at the time. I told her about it,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: and she went, they're putting their pictures out there, They're
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: putting their parents' names, their birthdays, everything I can get anybody.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: Now you print out that shit, because again, it's one
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: of like even like even if you look at like
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: PGM sorcery, it's a lot of like so and so,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: who's so and so bore? Right, So, let's say you
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: go on your LinkedIn or something. Let's say let's say
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: you want to get a job, right, because it all
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: has to work right. And see, when you get a job,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: you find to hire manager of the company. You got
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: their picture on LinkedIn. Maybe you could find their Facebook
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: or whatever out of that. Maybe you can't, but if
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: you look deep enough, you can find shit about their family.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: So you're like, all right, hiring manager Joe Smith, who
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Martha Smith bore born on this day whatever, You're going
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: to hire me? And then if you want to scale
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: it up into solemonic, you get yourself the third pinnacle
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: of the sun. You print that motherfucker out in the
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: day of the day and hour of the sun. You
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: put the picture of the person on the thing. You
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: conjure it correctly. You know the name of the father son,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: holy ghost. I make you Joe Smith. Whatever happens to
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: you is this thing, and then you light some candles
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: around it. You use like the first pinnacle of the sun,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: or no, I'm sorry, the third pinnacle, the son, the
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: control plentacle with the stave things and each of those
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: angels and a cardinal point. You call all of them all,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: you call all of them in a certain order, and
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: you're like, help me work this motherfucker, make me shine
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: bright in this guy's eyes, and then boom, you got
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: the job. Even if it's over zoom, even if it's
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: over a resume doesn't or even if it's over a
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: hiring thing doesn't matter. You got them. So from a distance,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: especially because again, where are we from. We're from the Internet.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: That's the world. Now you can work anybody.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Damn, that was impressive.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Can I say a couple Can I say a couple
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: of bars? Nick? I just want to say that was
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a great point Alex about that we are from the Internet,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: and the Internet is the carnal ground. So the Internet
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: is a great place to do magic on people. As
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: well as you should guard your birthday. I know nobody,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: nobody likes that advice, but you really should guard your
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: birthday and your logna, particularly which is your birth time.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: People underestimate how potent that is, but that's a very
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: potent idea tontra as well, that you can actually take
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: someone shock to someone's power through their logna.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and in conjure it's called stealing someone's stars.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: It's the same thing. Yeah, I mean it's like it's
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: you could just do it right, like they're like or
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: stealing someone's luck, sealing someone's nature, right, their personal power.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's it's a it's a it's a
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: dirty game. You know. If you go down to the
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: ground level, people get people get aggressive.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I'll make sure to have a funck BD if we
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: got to give her all my information.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying it's but you can also protect it, right,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: you can. You can. You can poison shit like that, right,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Like let's say you got a social media presence, you
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: got ops, right, because we all do. What you do
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: is you make a you make a fake candle spell
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: that looks like something but in reality at something else,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Like you make a look at prosperity spell, but you
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: put like the fourth Pinnacle of Saturn underneath it. You
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: call those spirits and you're like, any motherfucker prints this out,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: tapes it to a candle, get them like poison their lives.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: That's how you make like a honey trap, right, And
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: you know, I mean again, you know, like I always
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: tell my students, game is game, right, and I'm a player,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like it's you've got to
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: you got to understand that the world is a hairier
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: place than it was, say, ten years ago, as a
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: result of this in the first world anyway.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all right, well, uh, thank you for the
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: thing with the folk magic. I appreciate you. I thought
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: it was well well said.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks man.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks. I guess like the solomonic magic, I mean
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: for the people who that's something I have not really
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: covered too much. I had somebody on for the Goetia
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and it was like they were kind of like showing
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: like their new take on I guess. And you know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: for me it was interesting, it made sense, but I
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: mean it's I have to actually be practical with it
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: and use it to see what's going on. You know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: if you don't mind, could you like maybe get into
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: like a little bit of explaining like what solomonic magic
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: would be for the listeners?
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I mean all right, so some people are
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: going to be a little bit more precious about it
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: in religious terms. A lot of solomonic magicians become or
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: are started as fairly religious people, and they believe that
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: it's like the holdover of the pre sood of malpiece
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: deck or whatever. For me, it's a method of spiritual
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: technology that either summons peaceably celestial or terrestrial spirits or
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: forcibly compels cathonic or infernal spirits to do what you
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: need them to do. You summon an angel, maybe they'll
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: do what you want, maybe they won't. They can say no,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: or they can say yes and give you the thing
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: that they think you need. You sum in a planetary spirit,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: it's going to be a little more order of the petition.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: You sum in an elemental same thing you some in
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: a demon. You need to kind of beat on it
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: a little bit and then bind it. They respect force,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: they respect pain. I'm a pretty traditionalist when it comes
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: to solomonic magic. I do it the way it's written
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: in the book. With certain exceptions. I will say, you
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: can do certain energy cultivations and things to supersede the
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: fasting to open your spiritual senses in a different way.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: But if you're going to do it the full way,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: do the fast like it says, you get the kit
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: as best you can. Not everybody has the means to
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: get the whole kit. That is what it is that
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: we have plenty of textual example. Stephen Skinner, for example,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: produces a shit ton of examples of the fact that
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of people who didn't throughout history.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: There was an example of the excellent Book of Visions
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: by Alexander Cummins that gives an example of two magicians
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: asking spirits, what is the least that I need and
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: what is the most that I could have to get
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: this done? So you keep that in mind too. You
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: don't need to be perfect. You just need to be smart.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: The protective philactories that you make, the protect the family
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: that you ought to make those as best you can
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: because it can be dangerous. But in general, you do
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: the thing you say the words for. You know, if
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: it's the first time summoning that specific spirit, you might
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: be conjuring for three to four hours for it to
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: show up. In some cases, you've got to really put
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: your you know, put you put your ass into it,
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because especially because I mean
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: you want to see it ideally, you want to you
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: want to see it Now this is where people get
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: kind of fucked up. If you read your grip up,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: you'll understand that the visionary capacity of a human being is,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: in the Renaissance worldview, as real as your physical site. Okay, now,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: does that mean you can't physically see these spirits? Sometimes
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: you can. Sometimes they're full HD right in front of you.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they're not. The point is less to see them
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: and more to get them to do ship for you.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: All right, So it's it's it's the old get laid,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: get paid, get even, right, like that's the name of
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: the game. Sometimes because this is what you're here for,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: You're not necessarily and this this is this, This pisses
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: a lot of demon all that are types off, but like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: you're not here for spiritual evolution talking to these things. There.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: There's plenty of spirits that can get you there, plenty
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: of spirits and plenty of just even just being adjacent
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: to this for long enough time, I will give you
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: spiritual experiences that are very valid. In my opinion, people
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: disagree with me. Demons aren't for that. They're not your friends.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Even the ones that are listed is more peaceable, less harmful,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: and they are indeed more peaceable and less harmful. They're not.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: They're not.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: They're not there to like shepherd you into grace and glory.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: They're not there to shepherd you in some true dark
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: gnosis that some people will fuck with. They're they're gonna
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: fuck with you. Yeah. Yeah, read your Agrippa Hamburglar one,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: two three. You know you'll be one of the five
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: people who ever fucking did Everyone loves buy the I
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: got the new Purdue edition based edition by the way.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's great. You read it. Nah, No,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna get to it. I'm gonna get to it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: But you know, how old is the Purdue edition?
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's it's the more it's the more recent when
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Eric Produce spent like a billioneres making and it's good.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: I'm wondering maybe it's like maybe five or six years old.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I believe. I mean, the one that I have is even.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: The original Tyson addition that people loved when I was
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: growing up. You know, read the Ship. You don't need
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: to read it all at once, obviously, but like, you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: make it a point, you know, spend twenty minutes a
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: day reading.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: The Bastrooms so much in that book it is you.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Will, but it will teach you a lot about the
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: metaphysics involved in the Western Grimwore tradition specifically. And he
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: talks about shit that like little gems, right, Like he
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: talks about two headed possession, for example in his chapter
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: on frenzy and no one wants and it's one of
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: those things that you bring that up and people are like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: what he does that. I'm like, you didn't read that shit,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean? But no, So like that's
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: the thing. Goaeisha is about getting shit done, and it's
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: all really about enhancing you. Right, So if you look
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: at like broader Grimwore traditions, like in the Lmegatin which
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: includes the Gaisia, you also have something. You also have
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: things like the Almadel which have also done you know,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: some angels of various seasons they give you cool shit,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: They enhance your life. But if you do it spring
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: all the way through winter, they kind of write the
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: ship of your life. Like those can give you spiritual
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: guidance as well as physical boons. Right, If that's what
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: you want, then absolutely do that when it's easier in
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: so many ways. But if you want again to get
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: shit done and keeping in mind and I've said this
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: on a couple of podcasts, a couple of interviews. People
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: will often ask me, you know, why would you beat
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: the shit out of these demons? Why would you bind them?
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Not only five people? I counted three.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Well, it's got a good point, the three of us
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: here right.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Now, but truly one and the other two I don't know.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Where that is.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I really love a Grippa. I've said this many times.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I've said this many times, but I just want to
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: interrupt you really quickly. I'm sorry, Nick, because you're saying
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: something really interesting, and I actually agree. I think that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: you and I meet a lot in the middle on this.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Actually is that like the goet expirits are not worshiped,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: like they're not meant to be worshiped. I'm one hundred
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: percent with you, but I think a lot of leftime
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: health people leave that believe that they are.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: So dalture Man, sure, kind of right, absolutely, But I
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: just wanted to ask you about this thing that David
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Rankin talks about.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: David Rankin coming on Yeah, Nick's show and my show
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Pretty single, So he talks about blinds, how Grippa put
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: in blinds, how there are blinds and basically the entire
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: gramoric tradition all the way up to contemporary Western text especially,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: But this is also a thing in Tontra. We don't
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: call them blinds, but you know, scandalons, scambos, klipa's, whatever
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: you want to call them, sort of like traps that
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: a magician puts in, whether it's a pronunciation issue in
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: correct Hebrew, maybe incorrect correspondence. And Carle even said he
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: did this himself, he would in seven seven seven, So
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you know, it's I want to know how you deal
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: with those things, how you recognize them as much as
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you want to tell, and then how to rectify them.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: So I actually think they are far viewer of them
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: then people realize. I think that oftentimes people will say
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: that as an excuse not to do the work. I
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: think that people will say, like, oh, they didn't actually
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: mean bat's blood for this ink. Yeah, they did go
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: kill a bat. It's not hard, you know, or like.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I disagree with you there, because I know in Tantra
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: there are inner, outer secret layers. So immediately because of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Sambodia Gaia twilight language, we would know that that's incorrect
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: sort of presentation, and there is a way to read
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Western wisdom text with a kind of twilight language, which
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: is not an uncommon thing. I mean, Gerjeff talks about it,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Ospensky talks about this.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Sure, Sure, So I would argue that a lot of
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: the grim Wore tradition is separate from the Wisdom tradition.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I would argue that a lot of these things are
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: manuals that are meant to be done for practical purposes,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: for those results. For example, using the bat's blood thing,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I killed a bat, used part of its blood to
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: make an ink. The ink is more magically potent as
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: a result. Well, this is actually where we tie it,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: in my opinion, to the folk magic behind it, where
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: you awaken those spirits. I think that there are some
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: things in the Western tradition that do have blinds. But
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people will make excuses
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: for their lack of extraordinary results and extraordinary effort and
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: hide behind that sort of knowledge or that sort of
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: claim rather that there are these blinds for these things,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: because frankly, I think people are lazy. I think people
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: don't put the work in, and they don't even halfway
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: believe that magic is really magic. That's a big thing
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: that in my career, I've been trying to hammer fist
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: as hard as possible. Magic is actually magic. If you
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: make excuses that your magic isn't actually magic, that's why
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: your results are subpar. You should be able to do
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: these things with enough effort. Is it easy? No, absolutely not,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: But it's certainly perhaps easier to assume that a thing
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: is a blind. Again, this is a thing that I
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: disagree with a lot of people on. I think there
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: are some, but not as many as people think.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I could see that. My issue with a lot of
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: people's work is that I don't think it will be
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: understood unless people cross the abyss. So that's the whole
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: problem for people that have you know, if somebody is
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: gross the abyss and then they put out work, I
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: don't think you'll understand it unless you've had that experience,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: So that I could see people considering maybe a blind.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: But I do think especially Crowley's work, I don't think
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: you'll understand a little it unless you have that experience.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: That's just my opinion. So I don't know if that's
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: a blind, but it's still like you're not gonna understand
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the work because you're not having their experience and.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: There's certainly something to that like. So the reason why
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: I use, for example, the almadel is a counterpoint example.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I love that you brought that up to right. So
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: you do the almadeal. It's very simple to do. It's
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: very easy. It doesn't require even a fraction of the effort.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: And you'll be visited by these angels, whether you see
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: them directly or you're visited in dreams, or you're visiting
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: just in life circumstances across the calendar year from spring
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: all the way to the end of winter, and they
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: will guide your life. They will build you a better life,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: and you will be brought spiritual discernment, greater wisdom, greater spirit,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: sight and senses. You know, some people I know have
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: been brought into contact with patron spirits. You know, I
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: hesitate to attach it to the concert of the Holy
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Guardian Angel, but it's something similar enough I suppose that
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: some people have had. I mean, it brings you where
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: you need to be, in my opinion, especially things like Goetia.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: That is a that is an instruction manual to get
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: shit done in life. And that's why it can work separate,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: it works suboptimally separated from the greater key of Solomon.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: But the fact that it works by itself, and there
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: are people who have built entire lives, great lives, like abundant, crazy,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: abundant lives based off of this shows me that the technology,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: which is my primary focus in all of this, the
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: spiritual technology, works, and it works well, and it delivers
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: ninety five percent of what it promises. I have not made.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I have not personally been able to use that magic
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: to make a thing levitate, although I have tried. I
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: have not been able to personally use that magic to
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: make something teleport, although I have tried, but I have
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: achieved remarkable don't even bother talking about it because it's
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: going to believe you unless they wear their level shit
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: with that specific stuff as well.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Do you think I don't know what your other stuff
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: is next? And I'm not asking you to explain it,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: this next level stuff, but you think you know you
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: mentioned like levitate or move something. Do you think if
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: you actually if that actually happened, do you think, like
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: when it really happens, I might actually freaky the fuck
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: out because like, like that's real, real, That's not a
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: faith anymore now, it's a knowing. No.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: So this is exactly why I bring up that, Like
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: my old man proved it to me, there is magic
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: that can do those things.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I believe it. I know, I totally believe.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: The thing is, it's one of those things like when
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: you see it, you only want more of it. Like
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: I say that, I I can't make a demon, for example,
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: teleport something, but I have seen, for example, people by
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: locate and then leave an item behind that was not
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: previously there. So there are definitely things that can do.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying that is not what I've pushed this
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: system to be able to do. But the point is,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: even if you look at like what these things do, Yeah,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: they can make you smarter, and they can make you
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: learn things faster, and they can give you allegedly true
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: answers to divinity. That is the thing I actually do
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: doubt because every spirit has an agenda. You know, They're
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: all going to have their reasons for telling you things.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: And these things are clever. So if you ask them
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: like how is the world created? Or like you know
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: which God is the real one or which one is whatever,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: You're going to get something that it is going to
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: try to talk you into things. That's why I was
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: very fortunate that I got good advice early on about
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: I'm in a demon. You should give it a one
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: and done job, like you should give it one thing
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: to do that has a defined end, and then just
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: on its way. Some of it again if you need it.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: You don't want to have it oversee your money or
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: your love life or your career in a long term way,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: because again, those things don't like you. They will try
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: to get over on you.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: You can always deal with it as like a servitor, where
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: it's very specific, this is your job and that's it.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: No exactly, and again servitor tech is wonderful. The reason
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: why people would go to say a demon is because, frankly,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: because they're so close to the terrestrial world in terms
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: of the orders of manifestation, they can get things done
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: really fast. You know. I give an example a lot
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: of like I had a friend who had pancreatic cancer
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: years ago, and he was going to die, straight up
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: going to die, and I was like, Nope, I'm not
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: going to let that happen. You smon a specific demon.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: You beat on it for hours and you're like, he
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: will not die, and he goes in for imaging. It's
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: gone absolutely gone. That's why you do it. That's why
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: you call them because they can be produced. They can
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: be forced to give you miracles that you may need.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: That in my case, every other option I exhausted failed.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: I try to do every other healing technique. I knew
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: every other magic technique. I knew none of it worked,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: none of it even touched it at the time. I'm
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: better now than I was those years ago, so perhaps
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: I could. I I don't know. I don't want to
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: have to risk that though. I don't want any of
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: my friends getting cancer again. But like I couldn't do it,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: that did it, So you know, sometimes you do what
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: you need to.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Do until I kind of get off of where we are.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just it was pretty impressive and intense. Shit,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: there was other stuff I did want to ask to
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: get into too. Multiple questions. One real quick. I'm assuming
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: you probably saw it. I don't want to. This isn't
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: like a major question. There's more important things. But what's
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: your opinion on that show, that movie at Dark Soul?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're probacing that right.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay, it was trash.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I hated it.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: It was goofy, And then you know, I don't know.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: There's some occult cinema I love, like early hammer horror stuff,
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: big fan. You know, a lot of anime based a
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: cult cinema, Big fan. But like, No, A Dark Song
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: was was not was not my favorite thing. It wasn't
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: correct to the abermellin operation and it was it was
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: just stylized and goofy and realistically. The one thing that
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: was accurate was the skeevie like magician who was trying
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: to utilize the ritual that she was having him do
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: with her for his own Like that's like I've met
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: that dude in a thousand different faces, right, Like, like
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: that dude is real. He's out there listening right now.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: The guy's checking off like that was even part of
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: the ritual? Was it?
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: But you know what, he was in there doing it.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: But that's the thing man like that. I was never
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: a particular fan of that film.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And then I just want to say, just in defense
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: of that film, I just want to say that I
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: agree with the critique. However, a lot of modern magicians,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: like there's like all these young guys that run like
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: these magical training centers all over America. I guess that's
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the thing I know a few of them on Twitter,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm mutuals with some of them. Anyways, they do
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: this like very similar to what is depicted. Like they're
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: kind of training regime and their training course is much
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: more similar to what is picted. I'm not saying it's
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: textually accurate. I'm just saying it looks like something that
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: is done in a contemporary setting.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Now, I mean maybe, and you know, I'm sure that's
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: out there, Mike, I would be curious to see how
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: well it worked, because again.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I cannot speak to efficacy in anything. I'm not condoning
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: or telling people to buy those courses. I am just
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: saying that I know people who do it like that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: No, sure, and I'm certain, I mean there are people
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: out there who do all manner of things, good, bad,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: and indifferent. I don't know. I feel as though to
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: how to put this U being a complete dickhead, I
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: feel as though one needs to really vet their in
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: person teachers, especially I said, as someone who makes a
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: giant portion of his living teaching magic. Right, It's all
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: about what does it give you versus what do you
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: have to give of yourself in return? You know, because
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: you have to think about, like what you want out
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: of this, if your goal, and frankly, if your life,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: if your life is not good, like your life is shit,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: it's not where you want it to be. You should
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: be working on operative sorcery to get it there before
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: you work on anything in some deep mystical I'm going
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: to go to you know, mystic vision camp for three
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: months in the Poconos or whatever the fuck, Like, you know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: you gotta you got, you got to make your choices
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: in the right order, I would say, because if you
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: have a good life and you have operative sorcery that works,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: your discernments can be better because your scarcity is going
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: to be less. Right, You're going to be like, no,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: I can do this shit right Like I I will say,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to have even at this moment, excellent teachers,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: excellent mentors right now to teach me all sorts of
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: cool shit. But when I vetted them, they were betting
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: me right back. Of course, when I vetted them, it
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: didn't come from a position of I need someone to
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: show me the real magic. I have the real magic.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I have plenty of fucking magic. I have a lifetime
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: of magic. No, yes, but literally, when you when you
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: get to the point where you are magical more than
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: just I do magic. When you're able to do cool shit,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: you know you're you're a lot they're a lot less
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: prone to jump on someone else's dick about. You know,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: I need to I need I need to have this this, this,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: this guru figure, this like master figure. You know, you're
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: a lot less likely to believe with someone some secret
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: chief or whatever just because they say they are, because
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: maybe you've trained enough that you can see someone's org
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: field and you're like, actually, you're not special, or most importantly,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: you're not any better than me. And if they're not,
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: then you shouldn't be fucking learning from them. If they're
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: not actively leagues better than you, able to do things
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: you can't do, they're not worth your time.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Another question I had, I don't know if maybe you've
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: ever seen this. You're old enough, I think probably have
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: you ever seen Poke Runyon's old video with him dealing
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: with this?
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh yeah, noly did I see them? I watched
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: them with my fucking dad. We watched them together, because
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: you remember, I'm thirty seven, I'm not exactly super young,
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: you know, but with his with his running voice like
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I saw no, no, no, no, nah. You know what
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: I love about Poke Running? That motherfucker did not pretend
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: like he wasn't about the bitches either. When you read
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: his book, he's like I had a vision of amazing
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: new viral women. I'm like, yeah you did. Bro, Like,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: yeah you did. Boy like didn't give a fuck, but like, no, truly, truly,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Poke Running is a treasure just because of how he
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: didn't give a fuck like he was he was doing
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: what he was doing. I don't necessarily think that his
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: his opinions on certain things about how Gaatia works were
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: completely correct, but people have had great success with his system,
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: so I can't I can't knock its efficacy. I just
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: think that he fell into the category of at least
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: standing outwardly a less of a less of a general
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: belief in the reality of spirits. Then I would have preferred.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Well, one thing I did this when I came across
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: that video. I mean, well, I kind of had an
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: idea because when I printed out the book, uh, and
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: there was obviously all the stuff that came with the
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Gaysia besides that. But the one thing I did appreciate
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: is that he did focus on like you know, there
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: was other books in this thing besides the Gaysia that
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: probably should be read before you deal with that. And
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think too many people will. I keep it
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: from my experience when I was in the magical community.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think too many people actually knew that at all.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: No, they don't. I mean, if you look at the
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: third Geo go Aisia, I don't know fucking hardly anybody
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: who ever worked that one. I don't even know most
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: people who worked the Amadal.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: When you said that, I was like, oh.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: The only reason I worked it is because later on
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: I saw people talking about it, because, like I did,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: I started with the Greater Keen the Lesser key, I
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: sort of hybrid that my my dad put together, you know,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: in his own way, and then adding it to folk magic,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: and then you know, learning pardon and having his tech
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: added to the system and everything. And then later on
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: in my life. But I say later on, probably when
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: I was like twenty three, maybe I came across a
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: blog talking about it online and I was like, oh,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: I can do that, like and I did it, you know,
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, it happened. It was funny because it happened
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: to be the end of winter when I found it,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh shit, I can do this,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: like in a month, I can actually just do this,
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: like now, it's the perfect time. And so I started
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: it and you know when when when aries began and uh,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: you know, I did it for that year. Yeah. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: it's funny is I was. I was out of college
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: for like maybe a year and a half at that point,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: and I had nothing to do. I had like a
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: very very mediocre job, you know, I had nothing doing
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: for that whole year really, and I was like, yeah,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: fuck it, I'll do and that's why I can add
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: this into my ship. And I did it, and everyone
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: I know. I actually have a local student that I
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: walked through the Almadel. We did it together recently and
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: it was cool because even doing it later in my life,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: like recently within the last two years, I found that
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: it was even cooler, even more generatively uplifting. Yes, Pascal
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Beverly Randolph was goaded as shit, but like absolute legend,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: but yeah, I know so. But I found that doing
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: the Almadel, even multiple times in your life produces even
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: more in illuminating results in personal life. It also makes
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: your energy work practice stronger, which is the thing that
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people talk about.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Listen, yeah, I have heard that. Actually nice? Uh, real quick,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I would like to get back to that actually if
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you don't mind, but real quick, would you? Yeah? I
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: love that you said the almadel I have a you know,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I've messed with that, but didn't go into like the Goetia.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I guess it was just more of like kind of
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: dealing with angels and stuff like that. You use the
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Olympic spirits. I don't know if sometimes too. What could
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: you describe like with the other books, you know, and
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: the stuff with the angels, like what's the that's a
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: collection of things. Can you maybe give a little bit
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: more of an explanation for people.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: You mean, like the other books in the La Megatine?
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, can you explain that to the Pauline
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: art which as you make a table of practice and
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: you work with various planetary spirits based off of astrological timing,
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: you need the third yeago Asia, which is admittedly the
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: least best described in terms of method.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie to you. I, when in doubt,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: take the method from the Greater Key the like general
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: summoning to spirits, and you can kind of slot whatever
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: spirit from the third yeago Asia in there that you
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: need and as and as long as you use the
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: same methodology, you're fine. These spirits come just fine. That's it.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: It's it's kind of just just like the working man's
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: hack for this, because, like I said, the third Yeagoisia
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: and specific it's the least all described and you're kind
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: of looking at all these spirits, it gives you when
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: you're not told much of what they do exactly, you're
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: not told a whole lot of what they're for compared
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: to the other spirits in there. And most people start
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: with the Gaisia.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: John King is a live journal blogger dude, also a
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: solomonk magician, also a jeweler who who talks about how
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: he believes that you should start with the Almadele and
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: go all the way up and the Gayshia should be
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: your last thing. So you know, it's it's it's it's
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: not it's not unheard of completely, but like I said,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: my experience with the Pauline Art and the third Jiguaisia
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: are fairly limited. Like I've worked with them just to
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: say I did, but I haven't gotten and honestly, in
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: my opinion, the Pauline Art creates an unnecessarily byzantine method
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: of planetary magic that you can use the Heptameron to
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: have better results with, and people have. I will say, though,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: I think, and I haven't done this, but it seems
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: to me like if you are a Pickatrix magician and
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: you want to do the really deep astrological stuff with petitions,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: the Pauline Arts table of practice, it's working table, would
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: facilitate that. But that's like a cross system merger that
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: people would need to need to experiment with. But it
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: seems to me like you could because it's built into
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: you know, Western astrology pretty effectively.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I know, uh, there's a lot of angel work that
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: you could end up doing prior to the Gatia correct.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, I mean, if
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: you're if you're a if you're an Abramelin guy, then
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: you know you got to get the big angel before
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: you you fuck with them. If you you know, if
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: you do the trithemis drawing spirits and the crystals, things
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: you're gonna be working with, you know, all sorts of
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: planetary angels and whatnot. I will say, having done that
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: as well. Angels will always try to talk you out
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: of anything that isn't angelic magic. We even see this
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: historically speaking in the excellent Book of Visions, where the
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: two magicians talk about how angels show up and the like,
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: we can give you everything that these things are giving you,
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: don't you know, don't risk your soul, don't do whatever,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: in like a very Christian context. Anecdotally, I have had
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: an angel say like when I was much younger, when
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: I was perhaps seventeen, you know you you you oughtn't
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: to do this. I can give you everything that these
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: things can give you. And I'm like, you can, but
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: will you like cause again you know, full disclosure, I was.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: I was getting hose, you know, I was out there
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: living life, and I was like, will you give me
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: these things? Will you give me my vices?
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And it was like, no, give me my vices?
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: Like honest, that's what I is, That's what it was.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: I'm I know who the fuck I am? Yeah?
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's great things.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: But I said, will you give this to me? And
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: it said no, but I'll give you better, like I'll
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: give you a wife. And I was like, I don't
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: want a wife. I want hose. Like I didn't say
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: hose at the time. I said been. The point is
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: like I want, I want lovers. I want I want
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: to hare them and I don't want you know, ah,
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: the white picket fence. At that point in time, I
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: was fucking seventeen years old, you know, I was, I was,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: I was, I was trying to live my life, Biden
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: the live wire of magic. Because I will say one thing,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: when you are that young and you have it.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Like that, oh I could even imagine.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Honestly, Like at this point, it's funny because how much
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: I I have a brother who has three children and
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: they are still small and they are not going to
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: learn until they're eighteen. Like that was. That was the
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: agreement because of how much I got up to when
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: I was a kid. You know, because it's one of
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: those things too, like you know, somebody pisses you off,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: that's that's a bad day for them, man. Like you know,
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: because you're you have the live wire of I can
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: do whatever the fuck I want and nothing's really going
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: to stop you. Like a thing I was told when
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: I was very young. So I was given two narratives
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: when I was a kid. One is that like there
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: there are you know, spirits and things that stop you
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: from going too far. And then another narrative was that
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: the know they're though they're not like, there's no police
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: for this, there's nothing. I don't know which one I
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: believe to be true. I think about this occasionally because
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I've done good and I've done bad in my life
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: and eschatological questions are fascinating, and you know, the more
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: you project out of your body, experience spiritual states, talk
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: to divine beings, all these things you in my experience,
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I'm left with more questions and answers. So I don't
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: see a lot of proof one way or the other.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: But it is interesting because when you are a kid,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: that is the last thing you give a fuck about,
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. That is not what's on
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: your mind. You're just out there trying to do what
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: you're trying to do. But it is that same handful
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: of wild years that built a skill set in me
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: early because I was doing magic for magic's sake, you
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, just to do it, just to
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: feel that feeling, you know what I mean, to feel
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: that rush of holy shit. I did this, like I
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: made this happen, and I chase that my whole life,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I still do.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Uh. One thing I did want to ask if you
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: don't mind you know, I mean, I guess I guess
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: as descriptive as you don't mind getting into just for
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: some people, because I don't even think I even got
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: into this with the guy that I had on who
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: was into the Gatia solomonic magic. Can you give an idea? Obviously,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: since you've practiced it, you could do a lot better
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: job than I can, But would you mind maybe giving
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: people an idea? Like the whole circle, the triangle, what
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: you're wearing, all that stuff, Like what is it actually?
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Like what you're doing?
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Like explain because you know so somebody like, you know,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: maybe explain a little bit more. This person may have
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: no idea, like when you're saying you're doing this.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you're doing it. Traditionally you have you
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: have what I refer to as a protection array and
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: a containment array. Right, the circle is your protection array.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Different grand wires will give you different circles. They all
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: they all include god names, a traditional one for the go.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: And it's funny because when I was taught it, I
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: saw the circle in English, not Hebrew, because my old
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: man doesn't speak Hebrew, and he was like, well, this
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: is what it says, and we have we have textual evidence,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: especially from like the doctor Rudd stuff, which was not
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: unique to Stephen Skinner's knowledge. Incidentally, there there are families
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: of people who know this. But also you know, you
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: look into it and you're like, well, this is what
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: it says in Hebrew, because in the back of the
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Gaatia they will tell you. Even the Dolorance edition will
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: tell you what it says, like they'll translate it, and
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: you're like, all right, cool, I'm just going to write
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: this in English. So you know, it's got the names
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: of planetary angels, which you then walk around the circle
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: and you call them one or turn another to protect you.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: You will have been wearing vestments, usually like a white
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: linen robe. Some people will wear priest's robes. My mother's
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: people were kind of like weird magic Catholic, so I
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: you know, stole a priest's alb from a church when
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: I was a kid. I was up, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: So see you they get that you might have a knife,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: you might have a sword, if you doing the full
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: Greater Key of Solomon setup, you have a lot of
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: stuff you have, like special shoes and specialists, and specially
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: that you don't really need all that. To be completely
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: honest with you, you're gonna be wearing the Pentacle of Solomon
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: on your neck that that that brings spirits into control
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: of you. You have the ring of Spirit Felty that
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: you have to make or have made in the era
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: of today's world. You can easily order that shit on
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Stephen Nicole. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but so you can.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: You can get the ring on fucking Etsy or whatever. Again,
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: my old band is a jeweler, so I was lucky
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: that way. Then you have the Hexagram of Solomon, which
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: you wear kind of like a Masonic apron. I believe
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: that's probably where it was. To be fair, though, most
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: working Solomon positions that I know will actually have that
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: just propped up on their altar rather than wearing it,
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: because you don't really need to wear it. The thing
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: just needs to see you. They needs to see it
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: because you say, you know, like behold the Hexagram of Solomon,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: assume a comely form that helps to bind and control
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: the demon. The triangle is gonna have three three specific
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: god names around it and in the center. It's gonna
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: have the name of the archangel Michael, which you also
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: call to help bind the demon that you summon, you
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: like trace it with your sword or your knife through
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: inside the circle. You're gonna have a little altar probably
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: just to have your stuff, like you're gonna have a
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Libra spiritum, a book that you know you especially make
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: to contain the spirit's names and their seals. You're also
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: gonna wear the seal of the spirit. You're gonna call
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: on a layman around your neck typically if you're if
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: if you know you don't have jeweler skills, which I don't.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I did not inherit that from my father. By the way,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: you're gonna put that on like virgin parchment, because you know,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: not everybody can can can can be fucking making and
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: making a layman's you know what I mean. There is
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: one specific item, the lion's skin belt for protection. We
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: find in more recent Grimoire translations examples of like a
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: deer skin belt, like like like a stag skin belt,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: and I forget what it's called, the suma something the
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Steven Skinner just put out. There's an example belt with
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: all the seventy two Chimham foursh angels' names on it
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: to provide protection. There's lots of these things. Those aren't
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: strictly necessary. I have found in my own practice that
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: the fifth pentacle of Mars, the won't scorpion on it
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: that terrifies and binds demons, can be used in its
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: place just as an extra layer of protection on you.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Supposing you have all that, supposing you've purified yourself correctly,
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: either through the fasting listed in the book or through
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: energetic practices that you have to be crucially actually good at,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: like you have to not suck at those for this
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: to be able to replace that. Then you know you're
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: standing there. You get the calls ready and you start.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: You start to do the incantations, after you've blessed yourself,
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: blessed the candles, blessed to everything you know. The Greater
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Key of Solomon includes an entire section on like this
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: bless is the pen, you use, this bless is the book,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: this bless is the thing, and even including a general blessing, which,
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: by the way, for those who are in want a
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: cool trick, the general blessing can be used to enchant
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: fucking anything, like anything. So if you're like making, for example,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: a mojo hand in a folk match of context. You
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: drop that general blessing on it. It boosts it, so,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: you know, don't don't don't don't think it isn't eminently useful,
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: because it is. And then, like I said, you got
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: all your stuff right, you start to call the spirit.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: You do, you know, each call gets progressively more aggressive,
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: until you're threatening the spirit. You're stabbing its seal with
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: a knife, You're putting it in a box of fire
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: and smoke. You're you know. Also in the aforementioned excellent
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: book of Visions, they talk about drowning it in awful water,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: stepping on it, you know, beating up the seal, because
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: that will cause harm to the spirit involved. The doctor
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Rudd method includes attaching a swarting angel to each demon
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: that softens its rage. I found this to be true.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: It makes them more obedient, it makes them more docile,
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: it makes them less likely to try to fuck you up.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: So what you do is you will give that angel
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: a particular offering of say frank consense, like three days
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: before you summon it. And you're like, hey, angel, so
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: and so I'm gonna call this demon in three days
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna need you to help. And so you have
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: that thing's either seal or name on a separate layman.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of the setup. You know, you call
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: it until it shows up. Now, realistically, either you're gonna
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: see it and hear it clearly or you're not. If
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: you don't, that doesn't mean you can't see it in
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: a visionary context. That doesn't mean that like the weird
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: daydreams and ideations you're having while doing this ritual art,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: the spirit sometimes they are. We are all developed to
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: different levels, and frankly, none of us are. None of
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: us are perfect. Everyone has off days. You might be
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: conjuring and you don't see or feel anything. You know,
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: I'll be one of the first people out there to
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: say anybody who tells you they don't ever have an
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: off day is fucking lying to you. But just like
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: my old man told me, if nothing happens you don't
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: feel anything, you should still make your ask. You should
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: still be like, all right, spirits, And so I want
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: you to do this, and then you do the license
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: it depart, which sends it away. You do it three
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: times and then it's gone. Typically, even if you see
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: and feel nothing. You're probably gonna get what you ask
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: for now, context, be specific about what you asked for.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: Don't let the monkeys paw you. Don't be stupid. Write
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: your petition out, bring it on paper, read it, and
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: reread it in the days leading up to the conjuration.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: You know edits needed. Should if you have a buddy
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: you trust, have them read it for any potential errors,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: because you know they'll give you the letter of what
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: you ask for. But sometimes you know the number of
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: people who've asked for money and had parents die. I don't.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: That's a good way of putting it. Sometimes you be
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: surprised how you might end up getting what you wanted. Yeah,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I get that. That's interesting. Yeah, that was pretty, uh,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: pretty in depth. Thank you. I really appreciate it. That
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: was like, I really don't think you could have really
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: added much more to that. Yeah, I don't know. Jin
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: you got anything you want to ask her to get
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: into or talk about.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually have a follow up to that. That
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: was really grey, Alex. And obviously you did a like
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: an impeccable job at explaining like a whole ritual setup.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: I never did it that elaborately myself, but I used
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: adapted chaos methods, we'll say, but I want to ask
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: you about the sort of folk methodology that's very popular
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: on Instagram. Our mutual friend CJ recorded a great episode
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: with me. I can't even remember the episode number, but
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: it was the No Curses for Old Men. So he
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: uses a more I'll say, like it's more rooted in
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: like whodoo folk magic conjure, and that this is more similar.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: It's not exactly the same way, but he does. I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: think he does a really good job in my opinion.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to know if you use those methods
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: or what do you think of them, and if you
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: could like give a little layout of how someone go about,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: yeah aativating them in that way.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: So one, I think it's important to realize that these
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: methods are not new. A lot of grim Wars include
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: their books of secrets. The Grimori and Varum is the
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: most famous for this that basically give you folk magic
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: methods of working with these spirits. Where I disagree with
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: some people is I think you should have already summoned
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: the spirit as traditionally as possible and bound it, got
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: it to swear fealty to you, got it to swear
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: not to fuck with you. You know, got it to
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: give you its own special name by which you call it,
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: or in its own seal by which you know it alone,
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: and then you can just slott it into that. Because again,
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: big fan of who do and conjure, as I said,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: big fan of the skeleton of that folk magic, because
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: it's so adaptable to fucking everything, I will say you can.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: You can absolutely take planetary spirits without any issue, without
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: ever having conjured them fully, angels, even elemental spirits the
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: same way. The demons, I will say, are a little
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: bit I would argue you should would probably have them
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: connected better to mostly harness the full extent of their power,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: because realistically, operatively, what it looks like in real life
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: is you call a demon and you go, okay, cool, whatever,
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: I need to do this. And again part of the
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: licenses apart is come again when I call you. And
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: when you do that, you don't need to do the
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: fasting anymore. You don't need to do all that stuff.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: And you say it coming, I'm going to call you,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: causing no harm to my people, my anything, blah blah blah.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: So you're mostly safe from it at that point, and
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: most of the time. When you call these things and
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: you ask them like, hey, how do I do this?
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: They'll be like, okay, cool, get my seal, draw it on.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know, the skull of a raven that you find,
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: and and I'll say things like I'll bring it to you.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: I'll bring you the skull of a bird like this,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: Paint my seal onto it, light a candle over it,
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: and then put your petition under it, and now'll you
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: do whatever? Or you slaught it directly into you know,
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: folk magic like no Vina candles, you know, incantation bowls,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: the whole nine yards. You slaughter it all the way
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: in and it works. But like I said, in my opinion,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: you should have had the correct connection with demons now. Also,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: we know very thoroughly that solomonic pentacles or even parts
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: of them, have been used by root workers for fucking decades.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Like you know, you'll see this like people will, for example,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: make a charmbag and one of the ingredients will be
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: a solomonic pannicle drawn on paper with a petition on
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: the back of it. You can do this too, And
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: let's say you want more money, you draw the second
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: penticle of Jupiter on a piece of paper in the
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: day and hour of Jupiter. You turn it upside down,
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: you write a whodoo petition like your name three times
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: rotated clockwise, more money, three times rotated clockwise. Around that,
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: you write in a circle, like I want to make
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: this much from this beat a passive income. I'm going
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: to do this month for da You make a circle,
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: flip it over, you do it slots right the fuck
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: in so like, yeah, no, that shit is great. I
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: do it all the time for clients myself. But also
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: not everything is going to require a full conjuration. And
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: most importantly, this shit is fun and it looks cool.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: It can't you know it can be get very arts,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: arts and crafty with this stuff.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, dude, you absolutely can. It's funny. I actually
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: knew somebody right. This is this is a love spell
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: this chick did where she made a poppet of somebody.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: She laid it down and she got the fifth pinnacle
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: of Venus, which is like you see me and you
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: love me, And she put it on the thing's face
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: and she waterboarded it with like some line that she
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: like prayed the song of Solomon into It was the
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: most unhinged ship, but they're married. Now fuck yeah, it's
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: some ship. That's another thing too. You can you can
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: you can slot biblical conjure into this ship as well,
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: like all the way up, you know, because people use
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: the particle, so all magic hits like a truck.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, what'd you talk
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: about that a little bit? I don't know if a
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: lot of people know that. There's a lot of people
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: that I know that like you straight up psalms from them?
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, now that's the thing. I mean, ship. You know,
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: there are plenty of b about like what Psalm does what?
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: Or what biblical passage even does what? And regardless of
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: you're metaphysics, whether you are yourself a Christian or whether
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: you simply believe that the aggregor of Christianity has gotten
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: so beefy as a result of all the blood spilting
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: its name, either way, that shit works. Like the whole
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: thing is a fucking spell book. So like you know,
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: love spell, Song of Solomon. You know, if you want
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: to be protected Psalm ninety one, you want to be
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: cleansed of any negative miasma Psalm fifty one, you just
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: want to be lucky Psalm twenty one, you want to
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: fuck somebody up, Psalms fifty two all the way through
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: fifty nine. You know, whatever you want to do, there's
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: a psalm for it. And you can add that shit
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: to candle magic, and you get yourself a glass candle
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: like a novina candle. You write that psalm in a
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: spiral around that motherfucker. Right, you light it, and every day,
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: three times a day, you go back and you pray
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: the psalm and the candle's flame continues to empower it
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: because you've conjured it thus. Right, Because again, all candle
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: magic we use, no all, I take that back, Maybe
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: seventy percent of candle mass that we use is adapted
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: from like Congolese lamp magic, right, like, so you know
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of that too, which is also one
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: of the reasons why like a lot of conjure people
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: will take those like glass in case hurricane lamps, right,
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: they'll put all sorts of curios in that thing. You know,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: they'll make a huge spell. So it's like a candle
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: spell plus a plus a conjure bag. Every time you
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: light it, it just goes. You know, you front load
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: that ship and it works. Yeah, man, it's it's you
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: can do all sorts of amazing ship with this.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, uh, what I used to do, like
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: whatever I was doing the only sanitary magic and stuff
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: for the most part of Cabala. I used to use
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: like crystals, sigils, you know, like I would include a
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: like a lot of different things. Like I forgot what
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: I was going with that. What were you saying? Probably,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry I was.
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: I was just going off.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Man, there was something I was gonna honestly, like.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: It's just you. You can you can slot solimonic magic
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: into into conjure who do et cetera super effectively. In
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: there people who do it and make their whole careers
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: off it. There are people who build lives off of
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: that shit. You know, it works incredibly well.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: And we'll say, sorry, Nick if you remember it. I
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: don't want to. No, No, I think Alex is reading
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: my mind, because actually I love Psalm fifty two through
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: fifty nine, although I use fifty seven for a different purpose.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: But you can also use it in an impectatory way. Certainly,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: if you read it, there's elements of that in it,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: or at least reflection deflection. But those are some great
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: impectatory Psalms really underrated, really underrated. I just want to
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: say that.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, if you feel, if you feel under
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: threat by anything, you read Psalms fifty two through fifty
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: nine and then you finish it with fifty one and
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: twenty three. So you're cursing people and you're blessing yourself.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: Then you're purifying yourself and you're blessing yourself. You do
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: that morning, noon, and night, you'll see who your enemies are.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: Their teeth will shatter, you know, I'll have emrors. Is
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: I dental work. They'll fall down and hurt themselves. They'll
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: be blighted in many ways by warning though, if you
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: do that shit, it's gonna work. And people you thought
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: were your friends, maybe they're not your friends. You know
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: what I mean. So just understand.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I was bringing it up, but
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I remember now what I was gonna say is that,
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: like I think maybe a candle magic made me think
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: about something about how like I would incorporate that in
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: sigils and like whole whole bunch of stuff, like regardless
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: of like what I was working sometimes saying like I
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: could be doing tobalistic a planetary magic and somehow I
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: would just incorporate that candle has the right color. I
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: might have put the right oils on it, maybe trusted
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: with some herbs that match everything too, just to have
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: like extra you know whatever.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, stages it up. Man, it's his thing. It's it's
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: it's it's sort of the ubiquitous sort.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Of plus it's it can be fun as it's fun
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: as fuck.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: It's also the ubiquitous structural language of magic. At this point.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: The only thing I will say that I find to
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: be a weakness that it has is you will find
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: a lot of people and I hate it sounded like
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: something like bitter old head because I have a beef
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: with boomers in the eccult community in general. Like I
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: will say that full on. But a lot of people
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: they can't do magic without fucking candles, and like if
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: you can't like get a piece of earth and conjure it,
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: you know, and if you can't get water and pray
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: over it and enchant it. If you can't, it's like,
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: you know, capture the wind in a knot using ligature magic,
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: you know, Like you need to work in balancing your shit, right.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: I think there's an elemental imbalance because I'm a big
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Bartain guy. I think there's an elemental imbalance in the
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: ecull community of fire. I think that's one of the
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: reasons why you're seeing a lot of misplaced aggression personally.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: And I think it's because of the ubiquitous nature of like,
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: you know, Instagram, candlespells. They look they look great, but
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: it's like, can you do the magic, you know, with
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: a different element, you know what I mean?
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Like, Kin, did you have anything you want to say?
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Well, Barnon emphasizes meditation, and this is something that Nick
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: and I often and well Nick obviously it's his show,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: but he always asks magicians whenever they're on, and it's
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: something that him and I speak about on the show,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: and then also privately, just the importance of like a
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: fundamental meditation practice. I just wanted to know if that
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: is a part. Not storry Nick, I'm not trying to
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: steal your question, that's totally disgusting, but you know, is
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: this a big part of your practice, Alex and how
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: important would you say it is? And in relation to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Bardon who says it should be like a daily thing.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, crucially, Now, if you don't have at least
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: a daily at the very least a daily mindfulness practice,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: and I think it's going to be more than that.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, my bare minimum meditative load out is observing
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: my thoughts, single pointed focus, and in evacuity of mind
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: every day without exception. And I do multiple hours of
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: seated energetic practices, you know, astral practices, all sorts of
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: stuff every day. I mean, I do it. But again,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: like also do this for a living, so I have
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: the luxury of having the time, But like I do know,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: I think it's crucial, and I think if you're not
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: training your magic, the magic that is you, rather than
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: just spirits, you're missing out. It's one of the reasons
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: why I have a love hate relationship with Barden and
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: have my whole life, because I think that he produced
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: one of the best although I would argue maladapted training
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: methods that we have in the Western canon, I would
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: argue that there are people now who teach Barden better
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: than Barden. But I mean, if you and I hate
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: saying this because like I think that those of us
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: who are Barden heads owe him a great debt, but
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: I think that you shouldn't listen to his opinions about things.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: If you want to be an operative magician because he
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: falls in the category of magic is very real and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: that's unfortunate, right, like he I don't know. Again, one day,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: at the end of all things, my ghost will meet
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: his ghost and will have a conversation. I think it'll
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: hate me, but that's okay. I just yeah, I think
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: that that's extraordinarily crucial because if you don't, you're discerned
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: is weak, and if your discernment is weak, you can
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: be taken for a ride. And I've seen it my
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: whole life with magicians who were powerful, like objectively powerful
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: occultists who you know, ended up, you know, facing oblivion
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: as a result of a lack of discernment. So yeah,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: rotate the apple in your head man, every day.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. I mean that's like a common
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: thing really with anybody. And thank you for bringing up
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: jin because actually forgot that question. Anybody that I would
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: say is so much serious or worth listening to, they
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: always are telling you almost the first thing. And I
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: again have to learn to meditate. Unfortunately. You know a
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: lot of people hate that, hate that word, but.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, man, it's it's it's always important.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: But like it sharpens you, you know, I mean it's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm big on a need for fundamentals training in
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: magic because I always try to approach it like a craft,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: like a skill, like anything else. You know, like if
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: you're a guitar player, say, and you don't practice with
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: a metronome, you don't run your scales, you don't you know, practice,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: whatever it is you're doing not going to be very good.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: You need a bass, just like in magic you need
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: a bass. You need you know, a seated or even
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: moving practice. I think that's actually the thing that Barden
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: lacks is he doesn't talk about body work in practice
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: at all, which I mean, again not exactly he has
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: alter or anything, but I think that's the thing you
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: can do to enhance stuff. He also doesn't talk to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: anything about like timelines of training and man, again, I
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: hate I hate being again, I hate being like a
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: complete dickhead. But like, I think that the Barden community
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: as a whole is also part of the problem. That
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: they worship the Man as a god and they talk
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: about like this is a lifelong practice, and I'm like,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: if you can't get through Barden's first book in six
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: months to a year, it's because you're not doing it right.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: You're not trying hard enough, Like you're not reading between
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: the lines of Barden bitching at you for having human
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: emotions and wants and desires.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Something else I thought about asking, but I lost it
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: a bit ago. We talked about the Solomonic managing Goeti
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: folk magic. Is there anything else that's under your belt
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: that you maybe we didn't talk about yet.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: Honestly, Barden better than Barden, I guess you'd say, like
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: I do. To be fair, I have a lot of
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: practices and a lot of arkanas that I don't publicly
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: talk about because you shouldn't ever show your whole hand, right.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: There are also things that frankly, I'm not advanced enough,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: Like I'm technically initiated in Trinidad in Obeya, but I
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: haven't been many years in it yet. But it is
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: a thing that I do. But yeah, I mean, when
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: it comes to the other thing I do, it's actually
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: a big thing I teach. You know, I put out
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: a thing called The Principles of Magic Course where I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: basically teach Barden's first book and part of his second,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: with you know, some adaptations that make it more workable
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: with some timelines and training that make more reasonable. The
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: reason I did that was as I was doing one
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: on one teaching pedagogy for people who, you know, wanted
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: to learn, and I realized that a lot of people
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: just weren't as good at this as they thought they were.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: And it's kind of heartbreaking when you're talking to someone
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: who's like, I want to make my life better. I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: want these amazing things. And I've been doing magic for
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: thirty years and you're like, have you or have you
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: been adjacent to magic for thirty years? Like have you?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like someone goes, oh, I've been playing
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: drums since I was fourteen, and you're like, na, homie,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: you owned a drum set since you were fourteen, Like
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: you haven't been playing I have been practicing him and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: grinding since you were fourteen. And I found that people lacked,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: you know, even the ability to hold a thought in
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: their mind for a few minutes without without interference, you know,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: all those basic exercises they just didn't do. So I
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: put a lot of it together, like, no, not only
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: are these important, but each one of them does something
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: can be used to do something mechanically and physically for
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: your benefit. You know, even just using the Barden's idea
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: of the cultivation of vital energy can make you physically
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: stronger in the gym, Like, you should be able to
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: do that and see physical results it can make you
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: if you have if you push the elemental air through
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: your body, you should be able to run faster or longer,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: or hike for longer distances without fatigue. Like, you should
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: be able to do these things, provided you've put in
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: the requisite time. The thing is, Barden didn't talk about this,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: and I do you know, if you put in five
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: cumulative hours of an elemental energy, you should be able
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: to generate it cleanly. So if you practice for fifteen
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: minutes a day, how long until you get to roughly
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: five hours. There you go, and any one of my
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: students will will be the first one to tell you, like, yeah,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: it's you can generate it like that once you get it,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: and it can be used to actually make the world better.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: Problem is, you read Bardon and he tells you all
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: these cool things you should do, But then he's like,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: but unless you have the will of divine providence, you're
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: damned forever if you ever use this for personal gain
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: and you're like, fuck you Barton, you know what I mean? Like, So, yeah,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: that's the other thing I hammer on about, man, like
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: I'm a I'm a big crusader about you know, these
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: fundamental skills in themselves are a magical system that if
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: you had nothing else but them, you could build whatever
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: life you wanted for yourself.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: Definitely can be used for good. Sure jin you got
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: anything else you wanted to ask, right.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: I think that I think Alex is correct that like
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: you should use sorcery. Maybe I prefer a mor surgical
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: plus thometrgy approach, like I like both together. Obviously, I
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: just like I would practice the Keys of Solomon slightly
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: differently than Alex described I would. I say, it's a
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: unified system between Goushia and angels, and they are just
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: merely reflections of each other, and so to work them
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: in that way is more synthetic, maybe more Christian cabalistic process,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: like you're going more for a tiphoretic consciousness, as we
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: often talk about on the show. So that's just my
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: personal opinion, And obviously I take a non dual approach,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: but I agree that you should use the practices not
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: only to better your life, or the material life, but
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: also yourself. And just like self improvement is possible, people
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: can change. They are fluid, We're in flux. I just
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really important point for right now,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: because a lot of people forget that they have their
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: own agency, their own free will. And I do actually
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: believe in free will very strongly. So I even think
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: that if you have a strong enough free will, I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: actually think a lot of magic won't work on you.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: Just my opinion, but I would argue that it's true
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: to a point. I find that it is harder to influence,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: to dominate those of us who have a strong and
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: developed will with magic. There are of course workarounds for that.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: You know, if you can't you know, overpower something you
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: can still corral. It is still trickery you can do.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: But and again that's that's that's the forever arms race
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: of magic and witchcraft. Man, Like you know, the first
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: person to ever learn to figure out a mirror spell
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: in ten seconds, someone figured out how to reverse a
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: mirror spell, you know what I mean? Like, it's it's
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: it's it's the nerdy magic guy brain. You know that
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: just it just you know works with tech, especially if
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: you're an operator, right, like you're you know, you're like,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: I get this ship done. I make this ship work.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, but even looking at like Barden's
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: cultivation stuff, you know, like if you want to be smarter,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: you know, packing your head full of the element of
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: air will make you smarter, will make your memory better,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: you know, And I mean there are too many there
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: are too many case studies of this in my own
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: students and in people who teach similar things for me
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: to even deny, even outside of my own experience. You know,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: if you use servitors correctly, for example, they should be
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: able to speed up your learning of skills by orders
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: of magnitude, which is why so many magicians were considered
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: fucking polymaths because they were just really good at stuff,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: you know. I mean there's a reason why, like things
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: like the arsenatoria exist where you know, grimmore's a rapid
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: learning they work. I know people who've done them, you know.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you can't make your life, See, my
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: biggest thing is not just making your life better, but
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: making your life fucking awesome. Like you should not be
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: a magician and having a life. You're like, eh, it's
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: all right, now you should be fucking stoked, like what
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: are you doing? And again people get mad, But my
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: retort to that is always if that makes you mad,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: maybe hit dogs holler you know what I mean, Like,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: maybe I touch something sensitive in you. Because your life
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: isn't what you want it to be, but it could be.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: Everything you want is real. It can be yours, it
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: ought to be, and if you have access to this,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: you can make it yours. You don't even have to
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: be that fucked up to do it. You don't need
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: to be less some craven black magician, although they are
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: out there and they do exist. You know, there are
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: some super villains out there, but like, you don't have
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: to be you know, you don't need to like like
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: I talk about this a lot too, right, Like I
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: gave the example of the love spell. I don't condone
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: compulsory love magic for two reasons. One it's fucked up,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: but two it's insufficient spiritual technology. At this point, again,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: we live on the Internet. The Internet is our bioregion,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: our psychic bioregion. Right, you know you want to get
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: a certain kind of partner. Why do you care about
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: Sally down the road when you can do any sort
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: of road opener drawing thing, using for example, the magnetic
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: current Embardins thing to draw the right kind of partner
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: to you. You can even have a build a bitch
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: workshop list, you know what I mean. You can make
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: I want to look like this, be into this like
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: some anime, do whatever, and as long as you aren't
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: a complete fucking troglodite, you pull it off better than
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: you think.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, I you remember what one of the questions I
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: was gonna ask.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: You hit me with it when.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: It comes to like, I guess, uh, the articaatia? What
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: were you using like the ones that Mathers and Crowley did?
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: Do they you go back further?
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: Which so when I was first shown it again, it
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: was it was it was my father's book. You know,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: his stuff came from the Mathers and Crowley thing, but
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: also other sources, right like he because he talked to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: people over his life, you know what I mean. He
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: talked to other practitioners, got tips and tricks from them,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: you know, like they there wasn't there wasn't the internet
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: as there is today. But you know, if you were
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: a worldly traveled person, you ran into your own kind
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: because we called to each other, you know what I mean,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: Like our hearts sing to each other, and you know,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: you meet them, you talk and eventually after you got
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: over the squirrely like is this guy trying to work
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: me or whatever?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: It's funny we.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: Got that ship though. No, man, it's real. You know,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: it's real, you know out there. But like it's one
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: of those situations where like, you know, he found some stuff.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: But so it was really it was. It was from that,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: but it was like, for example, right in the Matterson
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: Crowley one, you will say the Boornless Ritual before the thing.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: I was always taught the Headless Ritual from the PGM,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: like that was. I was taught that and what I
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: saw so much so that when I saw the Boornless Ritual,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, someone got this shit wrong. Like
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: I didn't have a Lodge magic concept. That was another
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: thing too. When I was coming up. My old man
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: was like, the Golden Dawn is retarded. It doesn't do
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: magic really well. It doesn't give you anything that makes
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: things happen very well. So that was my concept. I
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: have met Golden Dawn members that could do magic, admittedly,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: but not many. Let me just say, let me.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: Just interrupt you there, Alex, just simply because we did
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: have Jimmie Paul Lamb like Nick did. I shouldn't say we,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: but Nick didn't have Jamie Paul Lamb on and he
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: was a very while I was there, but he was
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: a very impressive magician, very impressive. And I'm very particular,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm pretty good at caabala myself, so.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure, just like just like, for example, John Michael
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: Greer is from I've never met him, but people I
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: know have he's good, as I understand it, and people
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: I trust say that his magic is good. The point
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: is I was told when I was coming up, these
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: things aren't worth your time, and so I didn't bother.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: I didn't read any of it. I didn't look into
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: any of it when I was coming because I was
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: I was mostly concerned about like, well, again, if the
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: only especially when I was super young, if the only
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: person teaching me says this is this is bad, then
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: fucking okay, Well it is what it is. I'm just
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: here to learn the cool shit when I when I
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: became older, I read more into these things and I
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: met more people that could do things, but in general
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: I was somewhat less educated than my peers in terms
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: of the pure academics of it. When I was much younger,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: because I was an operator, you know what I mean.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: I was here to do the thing. I may not
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: have been able to be converse in the tree of
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: life when I was, say eighteen, but I could fucking
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: touch you, you know what I mean. I could. I could
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: reach out for miles away and be where you were,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: you know, because I practiced hard. And I've actually found
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: that to be true where I've met practitioners who were deeply,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: deeply almost occult illiterate, but they were aggressive about their
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: training and it showed right like they could do things.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: Their magic was stronger, if dumber, I guess you'd say, right.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: And that was kind of me when I was coming up,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: you know, like I could do all sorts of things.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: But I actually didn't read that many books by people
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: I had in person teachers, you know. I was fortunate
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: that way, but it actually gave me. And this is
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: the thing where I was incorrect when I was younger.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: I actually had kind of a low opinion of people
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: who had just learned from books or loge systems or whatever,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: because I was told that their magic was largely weak.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: I was incorrect about that. In general, I will say
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: there is something that is to be gained from repetitive
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: aggressive practice, you know, in terms of these skills, But
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: there's lots of different ways to get there, you know
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: what I mean.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, So like now, like you still use that version
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: or oh yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's it
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: was not I that's what you choose. No, no, no, it's
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: it's it's The thing is the gawaisha I learned is
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: still what I use. It's my it's it's my it's
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: my family legacy. I mean, it's it's it's my blood,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, just like just like I look at bardon
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: as something I can't walk away from, and and American
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: folk magic is something I can't walk away from, not
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: that I would ever want to, but that's that's who
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: I am during during my like formative years, growing up,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: having puberty, you know, learning these things, these things are
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: as attached to my soul as anything could be. You know,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: like I will always find home in those practices.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: As critical as I am a bardon.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: Uh have you ever had have you ever had any
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: experience of the ars inatoria?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: So personally no, but I actually know. I have two
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: really good friends who did work some of it, one
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: of them for musical talent, who had none, and then
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: within six months he was going to jam because I
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: play guitar, right, he was going to jam sessions with me.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: And he's not amazing, but he went from like zero
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: to competent enough to go to a jazz jam session.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: So like, that's fucking if if you know anything about
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: like specifically like improv based jazz, that's fucking impressive. Right,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: And another person learned Latin in relatively short amount of time. Yeah,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: that's what he absolutely works, but I have not personally
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: done it yet.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that almost makes me think about uh oh
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: yeah that what's his name, Jed Donald Bruno with like
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: his whole memory shit, Oh.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, dude, big big Bruno fan over here,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: big big big fan of the mind palace, right, Like
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: I funk.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: With that, nice, nice, nice Yeah. I just released a
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: solo show on him, like a couple of weeks ago.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: Two parts was a gangster, absolutely fucking I had to.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't know if it was really his mouth,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: I guess it was his pen. It's like every time
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: he would just put something out, but like, this person
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: is a fucking idiot, Like that's basically what he was doing,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: and white people didn't like him. It's because he was
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: arguing and being kind of a dick about.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: It that he didn't. The man had an aggressive aspect.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: No, I know, I love it, hilariot.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: So it was like fun.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: He would totally fit.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: In all, specifically three of us, and we all have
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: like our Yeah, we're all a little fiery, and I
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: think that that is.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Oh he'd fit right in. Yeah, no, he'd be great. Now.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: It is perfect. But uh yeah, I guess I guess
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: they will wrap it up there. I'm sure we could
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: have a discussion on something else in the future. But
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: uh yeah, I pretty much got whatever I was like
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: hoping to ask you to talk about.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: So shit, man, I'm I'm glad to be here. Thank
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: you for lamble too much.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Oh no, oh dude, that was great. You explained a
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff that I've never actually had talked about
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: on the show before. So that's great because I do
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: think chin I may be wrong, but like I'm pretty
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: sure Jamie pul Lamb didn't really the way he did it.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was like you're the way he does, right, No.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: He definitely, but he trained in Golden Dawn, so he
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: had like all the ceremonial fundamentals like for a decade
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: or two decades or however long. But the way he
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: adopted it was much more like my style. I mean,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying because he kind of invented his own
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: sort of even working methodology. You're yeah, I would say
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: he invented his own. He kind of pioneered his own style,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: but he is he is taking cues from chaos magic.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: So it's more similar to how I would maybe approach
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: more traditional system myself, just simply because that is my
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: like origin background, like a grip up plus chaos magic.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I just think that the chaos magic things
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: seems to feel a lot more popular with like like
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: you've had so many people on Nick, like from the
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Oto or from this and they're all talking about consciousness.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Now they're all talking about meditation, they're talking about dharma,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: they're talking about just it's magic in a very different way,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: and it's much more similar to that late eighties like
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: early nineties chaos magic, and even Alex is talking about
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: like a cyber magic well of course, like you can't
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: talk about cyber magic without talking about like Peter Carroll
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: and Liber Chaos and Liber Cyber and all those books,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: because they I'll talk a lot about this, like using
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: sort of like the Internet as a sort of primordial ground.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe you could even say maybe it's not the primordial ground,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: maybe it's the carnal ground, and you're using that as
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: sort of like to supplement or as the as alex said,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: like the sort of the ground we dwell on. So
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: you're using that as like the place, but it's not
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: really a place. It's kind of unfixed. So it's both
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: very powerful and it also maybe opens the door to
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: like certain negative backdraft more more intensely than the quote
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: unquote real world. Just one way to think about it.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: No, I think that's the fuck with that.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh yeah, that's why I thought. I didn't
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: think he kind of did it the same way. So
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: you know, again, thank you Alexander, because nobody's evercovered that
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: before the show.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: So hey, man, I said, man, I'm glad glad to be.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: Here, jin real quick before we let Alexander plug everything up.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Where can people find you?
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: People can find me on ex Twitter at wukongra Born
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: to b Uko and g Reborn at Threshold Saints on
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: x Twitter and on ig that's the show account, and
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: on the Gray Lodge at our YouTube and our website
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: which is at the True Gray Lodge dot com t
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: r V gray Lodge dot com and I just dropped
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: an episode, so make sure to check that out. And
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: Alex and I do have an upcoming episode which is
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: really good, to be honest, and I.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: Think that was I'm looking forward to that. Actually that was.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: That episode helped me sharpen a lot of my personal
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: beliefs and I really appreciate you having me on for
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: that one.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely well. You know, all like discourses the fire of perception, right,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: so all things sort of like the best ideas arise
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: from the ash of the you know, of the flames
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: of aggressive speech. So I think it was a really
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: great episode, and I appreciate that Alex came on, and
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that Nick of course had Alex on and
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: you know, just growing the circle, I guess, And thank
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: you Nick again for having me on. And I'm really
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: excited You've got so much lined up for us. And
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I won't spoil it all, but yeah, call Rejects has
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: a big line up the next three weeks. So thank
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: you so much.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: Of course, I'm very excited, very excited, and thank you
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: Jin for real for coming on, and thank you for
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: I mean you suggest that the guests. I appreciate it.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: It was great. Alexander. Please let everybody know again.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: You can find you can find me on a practical
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: Occult dot com that that that's where all my stuff is.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: You know, you want to I write articles there, I
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: sell classes, sell reading, sell spell work, sell you know, mentorship,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: et cetera. You can find me on Instagram at the
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: hex Doctor. That's where you see more of my just
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: goblin level internet dweller personality. And I'm gonna have a
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: substat coming soon where you're going to see the sort
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: of unholy maalcamation of my goblin dweller internet personality with
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: my deep cuts on magic. The substack is going to
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: be for like intermediate and up practitioners. It's not going
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: to really be for people who just want to look
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: at the one oh one that's on Practical a call.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: You could find it there, but it's going to be
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: you know, more more of Another thing I will say
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: is it's going to be a lot of like me
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: talking about things I have done, because I think that
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: that's the thing we lack on the Internet now. People
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: are less willing to talk about their achievements rather than
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: or people are really willing to talk about like their
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: perspectives rather than their personal achievements. And obviously, you know,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: in the age of you know this is going to
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: date me actually, but the whole picture, it didn't happen thing.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: I kind of miss some of the old wild West Internet,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: where you'd read ocultists talk about crazy shit they pulled off,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: and it would inspire you to want to pull it off,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: and you would go do it and then maybe you
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: get awesome results. Maybe you wouldn't. Oftentimes you would if
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: the person was genuine. But it's going to be a
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: lot of that. It's going to be hearkening back to
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: that because I think that I think that the Internet
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: is worse for not having that kind of maverick ship
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: on it more often.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming on, man, I really
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: really appreciate it.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys, Thank you for having me seriously fucking.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah uh yeah again, uh you know what I need
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: to if you don't mind, After the show, send me
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: all your links and I'll make sure I throw them
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: in the bottom for the chest for the for the
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: show now because it's live, h this may drop I
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: think this weekend and next weekend in on audio. But yeah,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: so I can throw them into into the video. Now,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: send that to me so if anybody's interested, hopefully within
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: a little bit, I will have his links down there.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: Jin again, thank you very much everybody in the chat.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: That is what's up. I really appreciate everybody jumping on
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: love all the comments, regardless if you agree or not,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate it. Yeah, and that is the end
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: of another Recult Rejects and until the next one, everybody
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: be well later right on,