Latest / The Long Haul with The Articulate Fly / S6, Ep 58: Reeling in Serenity: Sylvia & Ian Huron on Recovery and Fly Fishing - The Articulate Fly

Transcript

S6, Ep 58: Reeling in Serenity: Sylvia & Ian Huron on Recovery and Fly Fishing - The Articulate Fly · The Long Haul with The Articulate Fly

• 0:03
  Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.
• 0:07
  Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by Sylvia Huron and her son, Ian.
• 0:11
  Intro: They generously discussed Sylvia's recovery journey and the charity they co-founded,
• 0:15
  Intro: Reeling in Serenity, to support others in recovery through fly fishing.
• 0:19
  Intro: I really think you're going to enjoy this touching story.
• 0:22
  Intro: But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.
• 0:26
  Intro: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave
• 0:30
  Intro: us a rating or view in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.
• 0:35
  Intro: And we've received several listener questions asking about the best way to support the show.
• 0:39
  Intro: One way is to become a member of our community on Patreon and make a single or recurring donation.
• 0:45
  Intro: Our community has some great benefits like discounts on tying materials,
• 0:49
  Intro: guide trips, and more. Check out the link in the show notes for more details.
• 0:53
  Intro: And we recently released an interview-only show, The Long Haul with the Articulate Fly.
• 0:59
  Intro: So if you prefer to listen to the Articulate Fly without the fishing reports,
• 1:02
  Intro: just search The Long Haul in your favorite podcatcher.
• 1:06
  Intro: Now, on to the interview.
• 1:09
  Marvin: Well, Sylvia and Ian, welcome to the Articulate Fly.
• 1:13
  Sylvia: Thank you, Marvin. Happy to be here.
• 1:16
  Marvin: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our conversation and I really,
• 1:19
  Marvin: I enjoyed getting to know you guys on the pre-interview call and I really appreciate you kind of,
• 1:25
  Marvin: you know, sharing your recovery journey and then we're going to talk about all
• 1:27
  Marvin: the great work that you're doing with Reeling and Serenity and I guess, you know, really,
• 1:32
  Marvin: you know, the place to start, Sylvia, is with you and you're in recovery and
• 1:35
  Marvin: I was wondering if you could kind of share a little bit of your path to addiction.
• 1:41
  Sylvia: Sure. Thanks, Marvin. So my path to addiction.
• 1:44
  Sylvia: So I was always a drinker from a young age in my teens and sort of an isolated
• 1:53
  Sylvia: drinker, drank on my own a lot.
• 1:55
  Sylvia: And i'm uh at one
• 1:59
  Sylvia: point about seven eight years
• 2:02
  Sylvia: ago i really started drinking heavily because
• 2:06
  Sylvia: of some personal issues things i went through in my life um and i began to drink
• 2:12
  Sylvia: heavily by myself on my own and i also became addicted to xanax as well so two
• 2:20
  Sylvia: things i was drinking and also so addicted to Xanax as well.
• 2:26
  Sylvia: I basically shut myself off from family, friends, became very isolated.
• 2:33
  Sylvia: And it started to become a real issue when I really isolated.
• 2:39
  Sylvia: I isolated myself from Ian, which he's the most important thing in my life.
• 2:44
  Sylvia: And we've always had a wonderful relationship. relationship but at that
• 2:48
  Sylvia: point it was affecting my
• 2:51
  Sylvia: job all my relationships um i
• 2:55
  Sylvia: was a i was a functioning alcoholic and addict i will say which a lot of people
• 3:02
  Sylvia: are but for me i was able to function but it did start to interfere with my
• 3:08
  Sylvia: work as well um and at that point ian and a dear a dear friend of ours named Charles,
• 3:15
  Sylvia: Chuck Lindemood, they basically did an intervention for me and, and set up, um.
• 3:24
  Sylvia: A recovery center for me to go to and spoke with me.
• 3:28
  Sylvia: And I was sort of in denial at first, but then I realized that I really needed
• 3:34
  Sylvia: to do something. I needed help.
• 3:36
  Sylvia: And so I basically went to a recovery center.
• 3:41
  Sylvia: I'd never, never had a situation like that in my life and had to detox and went
• 3:48
  Sylvia: to a recovery center for a month.
• 3:52
  Sylvia: And that's kind of where my recovery journey started at that point.
• 3:58
  Sylvia: But that's sort of a brief history of my journey to addiction and then also to recovery.
• 4:08
  Marvin: And I remember, too, in our pre-interview call that you shared that a lot of
• 4:13
  Marvin: people that are struggling with addiction and substance abuse,
• 4:17
  Marvin: they're afraid to get help, right?
• 4:20
  Marvin: For a variety of reasons. And I was wondering, I know some of it was specific
• 4:23
  Marvin: to your profession, but there were also kind of more general issues.
• 4:26
  Marvin: And I was wondering, you know, if you could share a little bit about that and
• 4:30
  Marvin: maybe, you know, give some advice for someone who's listening that might be
• 4:33
  Marvin: similarly situated, that's kind of, you know, holding back.
• 4:37
  Marvin: They know they need help, but they're scared to get help. Maybe some suggestions
• 4:39
  Marvin: about maybe how to overcome that hurdle. role?
• 4:42
  Sylvia: Yeah. So I know for me and from what I've shared with other people in recovery
• 4:48
  Sylvia: and spoken to people in recovery, one of the biggest things is shame.
• 4:53
  Sylvia: I think shame really, really pulls us down and keeps us from reaching out for help.
• 5:01
  Sylvia: It's a very, very difficult thing to say. drugs or alcohol have such control
• 5:08
  Sylvia: on my life that I'm willing to lose my job.
• 5:14
  Sylvia: I'm willing to lose my family, lose my friend, lose the place I live,
• 5:20
  Sylvia: do things that other people would kind of look at and say, how could you possibly do that?
• 5:26
  Sylvia: But addiction is so strong that it has that control on you.
• 5:31
  Sylvia: And I think fame is one of the hardest, hardest things to be able to admit, I need help.
• 5:39
  Sylvia: And I think too, that it's not an easy journey.
• 5:44
  Sylvia: Recovery is not an easy journey. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done
• 5:49
  Sylvia: in my life ever, and probably ever will do.
• 5:53
  Sylvia: Um, so I think it's just those, the shame and the willingness to say,
• 6:00
  Sylvia: I need help from outside.
• 6:02
  Sylvia: I need someone to help me deal with this. Um.
• 6:07
  Sylvia: I think, you know, some things you have to get to a point, at least I did,
• 6:14
  Sylvia: where I accepted I needed help.
• 6:18
  Sylvia: And I think when you're in the clutches of addiction, it's just so,
• 6:24
  Sylvia: it's easier to stay where you are.
• 6:26
  Sylvia: It takes a lot to climb out of that gully and ask for help. I think one of the
• 6:34
  Sylvia: things are people that are close to you.
• 6:39
  Sylvia: I think if you can confide in one person at least, or even an outside facility,
• 6:47
  Sylvia: there are a lot of addiction helplines, there are a lot of addiction centers
• 6:53
  Sylvia: that you can outreach to, Alcoholics Anonymous,
• 6:57
  Sylvia: Narcotics Anonymous.
• 6:59
  Sylvia: There are lots of avenues, but just taking that first step, I think it's just that first step.
• 7:09
  Sylvia: If you can just take that first step, the other steps come a little bit easier, easier, easier.
• 7:18
  Sylvia: Everybody's journey is a little bit different. um we you always think well if
• 7:23
  Sylvia: i relapse then i failed which i had to get it over well,
• 7:29
  Sylvia: it's not a failure it's just a bump in the road and you have to start again
• 7:34
  Sylvia: and a lot of people do they start over and they've been to multiple rehab facilities
• 7:39
  Sylvia: and and tried multiple times but what i would say is never give up and and just
• 7:45
  Sylvia: take that first step of reaching out to someone
• 7:49
  Sylvia: that you can confide in, even if it's on a hot, you know, a helpline,
• 7:54
  Sylvia: just to be able to say it and ask for help is the biggest thing. And the shame.
• 8:02
  Sylvia: It's not an easy thing to get over because I think you kind of,
• 8:06
  Sylvia: it takes a while when you're in recovery to put that shame behind you.
• 8:13
  Sylvia: It can take a very long time, but at the same time, you have to hold your head
• 8:18
  Sylvia: up and go forward and say, okay, I'm going to do this one step at a time.
• 8:24
  Sylvia: And, you know, I have to think about myself and what I've done in the past is
• 8:28
  Sylvia: history. You know, I always say if the past calls you, don't answer.
• 8:33
  Sylvia: It doesn't have anything nice to say.
• 8:35
  Sylvia: You know, when you're talking about those things you've done in the past,
• 8:38
  Sylvia: remember them, but don't let it stop you from going forward and at least trying.
• 8:44
  Sylvia: But I really think just having that outside support, whether it's through a
• 8:49
  Sylvia: facility or a group, a group or someone in your family or friends that you can confide in.
• 8:58
  Sylvia: I think that just getting that first step out of the way is is a big, big deal.
• 9:03
  Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because so many employers now have as part
• 9:08
  Marvin: of their benefits package, you know, a confidential counseling and referral service.
• 9:13
  Marvin: And it's a that is a, you know, can be a really good gateway for people at work
• 9:18
  Marvin: if they don't know where to call. Right.
• 9:21
  Sylvia: That is a great thing. I was going to mention that as well. Our company has that.
• 9:26
  Sylvia: Things have changed, I think, in society,
• 9:30
  Sylvia: not to the point where I think they should be, but I think addiction along with
• 9:36
  Sylvia: mental health are some things that are coming more to the surface than they used to be.
• 9:41
  Sylvia: And there are a lot of possibilities for help, more than we had before.
• 9:47
  Sylvia: Or if you're just not, you know, if you can find that courage just to take that first step and ask.
• 9:56
  Sylvia: And the confidentiality, I think, is something everybody thinks about.
• 9:59
  Sylvia: I don't want to tell anyone because I don't want to say my name.
• 10:03
  Sylvia: I don't want anyone to know.
• 10:05
  Sylvia: And that in the beginning is normal, I think. You don't want anyone to know.
• 10:10
  Sylvia: And services through your employer, if you have them, that is a perfect segue.
• 10:15
  Sylvia: Way just to at least start the process and get additional resources that are available for you.
• 10:22
  Sylvia: Or if you know somebody in recovery, even talking to them is a good way to start.
• 10:28
  Sylvia: I think everybody has a different journey.
• 10:30
  Sylvia: Some things work for some people. Other programs may work better for someone else.
• 10:38
  Sylvia: You just have to find what's right for you. But just to get started is huge.
• 10:44
  Marvin: Yeah. And, you know, you know, Sylvia, so can you, you know,
• 10:48
  Marvin: we did, you gave us kind of a high level view of your journey,
• 10:50
  Marvin: but can you share that turning point for you on your recovery journey and kind
• 10:54
  Marvin: of take us from there to kind of sitting in your, uh, your son's apartment,
• 10:58
  Marvin: uh, after dinner talking to me?
• 11:03
  Sylvia: So uh you know i when i
• 11:06
  Sylvia: went into um into rehab
• 11:09
  Sylvia: it was it was a whole
• 11:11
  Sylvia: new obviously experience for me um i am a nurse and nurses are probably the
• 11:18
  Sylvia: worst for finding care for themselves um but i was in a severe state of denial
• 11:25
  Sylvia: and i think that's common for most of us um in recovery recovery.
• 11:32
  Sylvia: And I was in the recovery center, rehab center for a month and graduated,
• 11:38
  Sylvia: you know, went through all the counseling.
• 11:40
  Sylvia: And as soon as I got out, I relapsed right when I came out again.
• 11:45
  Sylvia: And that was one of the really hardest points, I think, was having to tell Ian,
• 11:51
  Sylvia: my son, that I had relapsed because I was ashamed.
• 11:54
  Sylvia: I was mad at myself and felt like I couldn't do this.
• 12:02
  Sylvia: But I went back to the same rehab with my graduation.
• 12:05
  Sylvia: They all welcomed me back again, which was embarrassing as well.
• 12:09
  Sylvia: But, you know, I'm back. I'm not perfect.
• 12:12
  Sylvia: And I was there for another month.
• 12:15
  Sylvia: And while I was there, I had the head counselor who was counseling me.
• 12:24
  Sylvia: And she basically said to me, when you leave here, you need to go into a sober
• 12:28
  Sylvia: living. Well, I was in my 50s at the time, and I just thought, this is horrible.
• 12:35
  Sylvia: I'm at this age of my life, and I have to go to a sober living and live with
• 12:40
  Sylvia: other addicts and alcoholics for six months, and basically put a stop to my normal life.
• 12:48
  Sylvia: And I fought it. I fought it. I said, no way, I'm not going to a sober living. No way.
• 12:53
  Sylvia: I don't need that. And I remember she looked at me and she said,
• 12:57
  Sylvia: if you don't do this, you're going to die. You're basically not going to make it.
• 13:03
  Sylvia: And I still was in denial. And I remember that night I was in the bed and I
• 13:10
  Sylvia: went to sleep and I woke up the next morning and I was just looking at the ceiling thinking,
• 13:16
  Sylvia: okay, one more day in rehab, I can do this.
• 13:19
  Sylvia: But then I just felt this weight just come off of me and I just looked up and said, I'm done.
• 13:30
  Sylvia: I am handing it over to my higher power. And whatever, you know,
• 13:35
  Sylvia: for everybody, their higher power is something different.
• 13:39
  Sylvia: Different um for me and
• 13:42
  Sylvia: my soul I just knew I had gotten to that point where I accepted it I'm an alcoholic
• 13:47
  Sylvia: I'm an addict I need help and I'm giving I'm handing it over and I'm gonna stop
• 13:52
  Sylvia: trying to control things and
• 13:55
  Sylvia: I'll never forget I just felt this weight come off of me and I just I knew.
• 14:02
  Sylvia: From this point on, I can do this and I'm going to do it.
• 14:07
  Sylvia: And I went in right away to the counselor and said, I'm going to sober living.
• 14:12
  Sylvia: And it was the best decision I could have ever made ever.
• 14:17
  Sylvia: And I went into a sober living for six months, which is a pretty rigid program.
• 14:23
  Sylvia: You go to meetings every day, AA meetings.
• 14:26
  Sylvia: You have to report in. You're in a very structured environment with others who are in recovery as well.
• 14:33
  Sylvia: And it was six long months, but I honestly don't think I could have made it if I hadn't done that.
• 14:39
  Sylvia: And that was really the turning point for me.
• 14:43
  Sylvia: And when I came out of the sober living, I haven't looked back since then.
• 14:49
  Sylvia: I haven't. And I'm almost a little over almost six years sober now.
• 14:53
  Sylvia: And I honestly think that was the best decision I could have ever made.
• 14:59
  Sylvia: I actually got to the point where I could listen to someone who was telling
• 15:03
  Sylvia: me something and finally accepting it and bringing it in.
• 15:08
  Sylvia: And then from that point, when I came out of the sober living,
• 15:12
  Sylvia: I got a new job. I'm still at that same job.
• 15:15
  Sylvia: And then, you know, bonding with Ian has just been phenomenal.
• 15:21
  Sylvia: Rebonding with Ian, I would say, has been phenomenal from that point on. Yeah.
• 15:27
  Sylvia: But that was the turning point.
• 15:29
  Marvin: Yeah. And, you know, Ian, we were talking in our last time we spoke that,
• 15:33
  Marvin: um, you know, I think sometimes people don't think about the impact of addiction
• 15:37
  Marvin: on the addict support network.
• 15:39
  Marvin: And I was just kind of curious if you could share with us, you know,
• 15:43
  Marvin: what it's like to watch someone that you care about deeply struggle to move into recovery.
• 15:50
  Ian: Well, yeah, I suppose I do.
• 15:53
  Ian: I can't offer a pretty intimate answer to that question, given that,
• 15:59
  Ian: you know, my mom is my mom and I'm her son and only child raised by a single mother.
• 16:06
  Ian: Um, so it's been her and I against the world for as long as I can remember,
• 16:12
  Ian: um, since I was like six and, uh, you know, that I understand that anybody's
• 16:19
  Ian: experiences with someone that you may know,
• 16:22
  Ian: love, um.
• 16:25
  Ian: And their battle with addiction can be deeply individualized
• 16:29
  Ian: but i would probably say that
• 16:33
  Ian: one of the best things i learned is that you have to not you you have to embrace
• 16:41
  Ian: the fact that you care about someone so deeply but also to um set healthy boundaries
• 16:47
  Ian: um you know as my mom was kind
• 16:51
  Ian: of struggling through rehab and really hitting that point of no return around
• 16:58
  Ian: the time she relapsed, like she just walked through,
• 17:01
  Ian: you know, when we got her into rehab, we had to write these letters to her and
• 17:07
  Ian: I had to really come clean with her as far as what our relationship
• 17:14
  Ian: was going to look like if she did
• 17:17
  Ian: not find a path to sobriety
• 17:20
  Ian: um and I don't want to call it
• 17:23
  Ian: an ultimatum because that's almost too black and white um it was more I wrote
• 17:31
  Ian: from my heart and I wrote about what I was feeling in my soul and really was
• 17:36
  Ian: just very upfront with her around like, look, this is where we currently stand.
• 17:41
  Ian: And if you continue to treat us, everybody who loves you and yourself like this,
• 17:47
  Ian: then there's not a world that I can envision where we have the same relationship that we did.
• 17:53
  Ian: It's not like I'll never speak to you again, but I'm not going to be the son
• 17:57
  Ian: that you thought I was or that I have been up until this point,
• 18:01
  Ian: because I can't, I can't keep sitting in this corner and watching you,
• 18:05
  Ian: um, you do this to yourself.
• 18:06
  Ian: If someone was struggling to, um, you know.
• 18:11
  Ian: Empathize or support someone who is really battling with addiction and cannot
• 18:18
  Ian: find a way to move into recovery.
• 18:20
  Ian: One of my biggest things that I would also say is to just really be an open listener.
• 18:28
  Ian: Mom would talk to me about what she was going through.
• 18:34
  Ian: And I would like to call out that we do have a phenomenal relationship.
• 18:40
  Ian: And I think it was one of the best things for her that she was able to,
• 18:45
  Ian: especially as she really moves through rehab, talk to me without judgment,
• 18:51
  Ian: be honest with me about how she was feeling, what she was going through and,
• 18:56
  Ian: you know, tell me from her heart, there had been a lot of lies and a lot of,
• 19:02
  Ian: you know, covering ups beforehand,
• 19:05
  Ian: but she was able to really share with me.
• 19:07
  Ian: And I think I finally got her to understand that no matter what she told me,
• 19:11
  Ian: I was still going to listen.
• 19:13
  Ian: And I would say that that's a huge thing to practice with someone who you may
• 19:19
  Ian: have in your life, whether it be a friend or a brother or a parent,
• 19:22
  Ian: just to have them understand that they can say things to you and it's not going
• 19:28
  Ian: to blow up whatever relationship you have.
• 19:31
  Ian: Just tell me the truth And I'm going to still be sitting across from you after
• 19:36
  Ian: you're done telling that.
• 19:37
  Ian: I think that's that's a huge one.
• 19:40
  Sylvia: I would I would agree 100 percent. And just to kind of piggyback on what Ian
• 19:46
  Sylvia: said about that, it was an impact letters, what they call it at rehab.
• 19:50
  Sylvia: And I still read Ian's letter every year, every anniversary of my sobriety.
• 19:58
  Sylvia: I go back and read the letters that I got from my brother, Curtis,
• 20:02
  Sylvia: from Ian and our dear friend, Chuck, who was part of my intervention.
• 20:07
  Sylvia: And I think that's important. But I will say when I read that letter, it was devastating,
• 20:16
  Sylvia: but also it really brought me forward as well.
• 20:24
  Sylvia: I was able to come back to how important these people are in my life, and I can't lose them.
• 20:33
  Sylvia: Nothing could get in the way of those people that I love the dearest.
• 20:38
  Sylvia: And yeah, that was a big deal, Ian's letter.
• 20:43
  Sylvia: Again, I still have it, but I read it every anniversary.
• 20:46
  Marvin: Yeah, I think, you know, not just for addiction, but I think that ability to
• 20:51
  Marvin: create the safe space for people that you want to, you know,
• 20:56
  Marvin: I mean, really what you're doing is living in community with them,
• 20:59
  Marvin: whatever the issue is, right?
• 21:01
  Marvin: And I think that's a very, very, very powerful thing.
• 21:05
  Sylvia: Yeah, that safe space of knowing that, you know, because you do horrible things
• 21:11
  Sylvia: when you're in addiction and the throes of addiction.
• 21:14
  Sylvia: You steal, you lie, you damage.
• 21:18
  Sylvia: I kind of liken it to when you watch water going down a drain.
• 21:24
  Sylvia: It's like that circle that just goes down the drain and you suck everybody down with you.
• 21:30
  Sylvia: You'll take everything with you. You'll take jobs.
• 21:33
  Sylvia: You'll take friendships. ships. You'll take, you just take everyone with you
• 21:37
  Sylvia: down the drain and, you know, you have to stop it somewhere.
• 21:42
  Sylvia: And when someone can say, look, you're not taking me down, but I'm here for you.
• 21:48
  Sylvia: I'm here for you. You can tell me anything, not going to judge, but I'm here for you.
• 21:52
  Sylvia: And that, that safe space is very important, extremely important.
• 21:58
  Ian: There's something I wanted to just call
• 22:01
  Ian: out too because you had asked what it was like for me and
• 22:04
  Ian: um it's something mom said uh when
• 22:08
  Ian: she um she kind of hit that point
• 22:11
  Ian: or you you had asked um if if she
• 22:13
  Ian: had suggestions for someone who was
• 22:17
  Ian: actively struggling and you basically called out
• 22:20
  Ian: mom that it there was a point that first
• 22:23
  Ian: step of saying i need help uh admitting
• 22:27
  Ian: that to yourself first and foremost
• 22:30
  Ian: and then to those around you i had to
• 22:32
  Ian: have that moment as well i mean mom spoke at the top of the interview about
• 22:39
  Ian: how you know at the uh even in later stages of her addiction she was somewhat
• 22:43
  Ian: in denial i'll freely admit that i was too like as someone who was watching it from From afar,
• 22:50
  Ian: it took a long time for me to have a moment where I was like, this is a problem.
• 22:56
  Ian: For the longest time, you know, the fact was that mom was functioning.
• 23:01
  Ian: You know, she she she basically could continue to go about her life,
• 23:05
  Ian: despite the fact that she was still engaging in all these addictions.
• 23:10
  Ian: And it took a long time for me to say, I need help in the sense of like,
• 23:16
  Ian: I need help from outside her.
• 23:19
  Ian: Her and I, an institution, a family friend, a mantra, a belief,
• 23:26
  Ian: a fundamentalist-like system, whatever,
• 23:29
  Ian: whatever it might have been, I had to have that moment of, okay,
• 23:34
  Ian: we're going to have to go outside.
• 23:36
  Ian: Uh a locked room with her and i trying to
• 23:39
  Ian: hash this out and bring something else in that
• 23:42
  Ian: is going to instigate change because it's not
• 23:45
  Ian: just gonna i just can't i can't do this myself and i have to recognize this
• 23:49
  Ian: as an issue as well and i remember uh it was surreal having that moment as well
• 23:56
  Ian: like um it threw me for a loop because it's almost it's almost like i came to
• 24:01
  Ian: grips with it just as hard as she did.
• 24:03
  Ian: Um, so yeah, sorry. I, I, I wrote that down as you were talking about it,
• 24:07
  Ian: mom. So I wanted to not cheat.
• 24:09
  Marvin: No, no, no, not at all. But I was going to kind of follow up cause I wanted
• 24:12
  Marvin: to kind of dig a little bit deeper.
• 24:14
  Marvin: Cause I think, you know, the, you know, being a caregiver or a support giver
• 24:20
  Marvin: is a, is a very, uh, very demanding role.
• 24:24
  Marvin: It's demanding on your time. It's demanding on your emotional energy.
• 24:27
  Marvin: And I was kind of curious about, you know, Ian, what did you do for you to be
• 24:32
  Marvin: able to have the stamina to be as supportive as you wanted to be?
• 24:37
  Marvin: And, you know, what are your thoughts for other people, you know,
• 24:40
  Marvin: whether it's addiction or taking care of an elderly parent or whatever it is
• 24:43
  Marvin: about how to, you know, help, but without, you know, inadvertently destroying yourself?
• 24:50
  Ian: Wow. That's a really good question. Um, yeah, and it's fair.
• 24:56
  Ian: I may, I may be speak there.
• 24:58
  Ian: You bring up a good point as far as like, say, say you're looking at it through
• 25:03
  Ian: the lens of like someone who has to take care of an elderly parent.
• 25:06
  Ian: And perhaps there, there are not a lot of resources that they can call upon
• 25:11
  Ian: to help ease that burden.
• 25:13
  Ian: I am will freely admit that I am lucky enough that I was able to share some
• 25:19
  Ian: of the burden of mom's recovery, specifically with the family friends.
• 25:23
  Ian: She mentioned we have a very close family friend. His name's Charles.
• 25:26
  Ian: He helped when we put together our letters and took mom to rehab.
• 25:31
  Ian: And he drove down there with me to where it was down in South Georgia.
• 25:35
  Ian: Her brother as well came down there. And additionally, there were friends.
• 25:42
  Ian: That is my answer is do not feel as though you have to shoulder the burden of
• 25:51
  Ian: your loved one's recovery completely isolated because your loved one,
• 25:56
  Ian: even though they've probably burned a few bridges at this point,
• 26:00
  Ian: still has friends, still has family.
• 26:02
  Ian: They still have people that love them. All of us do.
• 26:05
  Ian: And if you go to those people and you explain that you are spearheading this
• 26:11
  Ian: person's recovery, and that's basically a fair amount of what I did,
• 26:15
  Ian: I'm taking an active role in it, but I need your help.
• 26:20
  Ian: This isn't a one-man show. I need everybody that can jump in and let my mom
• 26:25
  Ian: understand how much she's cared for, how much she needs to be healthy,
• 26:29
  Ian: how much of a problem this is, and how much she needs to embrace recovery.
• 26:35
  Ian: I need everybody to step up. And so many people came out of the woodwork to do so.
• 26:42
  Ian: And I would sing their praises for the next 50 years because it's an integral
• 26:48
  Ian: piece of how I was able to maintain it. Like you said, while keeping myself sane.
• 26:54
  Ian: Yeah, that's huge. Calling upon the resources that you can.
• 26:58
  Ian: And I would say if you cannot, because there are going to be those people,
• 27:02
  Ian: They might be listening to this and they're like, you know what? I got nobody.
• 27:06
  Ian: It's just me. I got to be my 80 year old dad's house every day.
• 27:11
  Ian: And I got nothing else I can do, but be there every day.
• 27:14
  Ian: I would encourage you to think practically with your time and understand that
• 27:21
  Ian: there are ways for you to do things for your, your person, how you're taking
• 27:26
  Ian: care of them that also benefit you.
• 27:28
  Ian: I mean, um, I remember, God, this is getting deep in the cut here.
• 27:33
  Ian: Um, but, uh, I remember I, I made mom read, uh, a book that I was like obsessed with.
• 27:41
  Ian: I was reading it for like the third
• 27:43
  Ian: time and mom was having trouble really focusing on a lot at this point.
• 27:49
  Ian: Uh, cause she was deep in the throes of it. And I remember I laid in bed with
• 27:53
  Ian: her and read it to her, um, like page by page and love that book.
• 28:00
  Ian: I enjoyed being able to reread that book.
• 28:03
  Ian: And also I think it helped mom immensely. So like, you gotta find a way to,
• 28:09
  Ian: yeah, make it somewhat substantive for yourself as well.
• 28:14
  Ian: But honestly, I wouldn't, we wouldn't be where we are if, um,
• 28:18
  Ian: the people that love mom hadn't, hadn't stepped up and cowboyed up like they
• 28:22
  Ian: did big, big love to everybody.
• 28:25
  Marvin: Yeah. And I would also say too, you know, if you don't, you know,
• 28:29
  Marvin: have someone or you feel like your network's not, you know, deep enough,
• 28:32
  Marvin: there are support groups for, you know, whether you're taking care of elderly
• 28:35
  Marvin: parents or you're, you know, you are the child of someone who's addicted.
• 28:39
  Marvin: I mean, there are places that you can go to, you know, sit somewhere with other
• 28:43
  Marvin: people that are struggling with the exact same things you're struggling with
• 28:46
  Marvin: so that you don't feel like you're the only person in the world doing this.
• 28:49
  Ian: Right huge call it yes encourage professional help a hundred percent because
• 28:55
  Ian: they they are out there that's a great point.
• 28:57
  Sylvia: Yeah al-anon is one al-anon is another good support system for those impacted
• 29:04
  Sylvia: um you know by family or friends in recovery that's a good resource as well.
• 29:11
  Marvin: And I have one last question before we really start talking about the fun stuff,
• 29:15
  Marvin: talking about fly fishing, right?
• 29:20
  Marvin: So, you know, I wanted to, you know, we've kind of talked about each of your paths.
• 29:24
  Marvin: And I was just kind of curious if each of you, you know, Sylvia, why don't you go first?
• 29:28
  Marvin: And you just kind of share, you know, what you think are some of the best ways
• 29:32
  Marvin: for someone to support someone on their recovery journey.
• 29:36
  Marvin: And then, you know, Ian, you can pick it up and then I promise you we'll start
• 29:39
  Marvin: talking about fly fishing.
• 29:40
  Sylvia: What? I, you know, I think what Ian said is, is just hits it to the heart.
• 29:47
  Sylvia: And he said a couple of things that I haven't heard him say,
• 29:51
  Sylvia: which, which really are very, it's emotional.
• 29:56
  Sylvia: I think, you know, again, it's very difficult.
• 30:00
  Sylvia: Difficult i i can see it
• 30:03
  Sylvia: now that i'm in recovery and my
• 30:06
  Sylvia: experience with recovery i lead a nursing group
• 30:09
  Sylvia: a recovery nursing group i i stay involved in recovery through our non-profit
• 30:15
  Sylvia: organization and i've had people come to me and say what's it like and i know
• 30:20
  Sylvia: somebody you know one thing we have never i don't think i've met one person
• 30:25
  Sylvia: that that i've talked to when i'm talking about
• 30:28
  Sylvia: recovery that doesn't have somebody they know that's in recovery or going through it.
• 30:33
  Sylvia: And, you know, the one thing I tell them, and it mirrors what Ian said,
• 30:39
  Sylvia: is you have to set the boundary because, you know, addict, alcoholic,
• 30:46
  Sylvia: we can be very, very manipulative.
• 30:49
  Sylvia: We lie.
• 30:51
  Sylvia: We do do anything when we're in addiction, in the throes of addiction.
• 30:57
  Sylvia: And I think to support someone, you have to understand too that you can say
• 31:04
  Sylvia: so many things like, you've got to get better, you've got to do this, you need to do this.
• 31:09
  Sylvia: But until they get to the point where they want it, I think it's very difficult to start.
• 31:17
  Sylvia: Like that person, you can only do so much as the person standing outside until
• 31:23
  Sylvia: that person that you're trying to help is ready to get help,
• 31:27
  Sylvia: is receptive and accept they're an alcoholic or they're an addict or that they
• 31:35
  Sylvia: are ready. And that may be,
• 31:39
  Sylvia: It is a different point for everybody, and it may be a long,
• 31:42
  Sylvia: very, very long road until someone comes to that point.
• 31:48
  Sylvia: Patience, listening, like Ian said, nonjudgmental. You have to be, I think.
• 31:55
  Sylvia: And you just, but you also have to save yourself.
• 31:59
  Sylvia: You have to realize I can only do so much from the outside and just be there
• 32:04
  Sylvia: and offer resources, you know, professional resources and be there, too.
• 32:10
  Sylvia: If you offer, I'll go to a meeting with you.
• 32:14
  Sylvia: I had people that came to many meetings with me, my friend, my family.
• 32:18
  Sylvia: It was it was a whole new world for them.
• 32:21
  Sylvia: But they were very, you know, oh, this place is interesting.
• 32:25
  Sylvia: You know, this AA meeting is really interesting.
• 32:30
  Sylvia: But they came, they came and they sat through it with me and were there.
• 32:35
  Sylvia: And at every anniversary, they're there.
• 32:37
  Sylvia: And, you know, I think each, but you do have to protect yourself as well as
• 32:43
  Sylvia: that caregiver, as that person who wants to help.
• 32:46
  Sylvia: And keep trying. Don't give up. Keep trying because they just might not be ready yet.
• 32:54
  Sylvia: And again, offer resources, you know, professional resources,
• 32:59
  Sylvia: find resources for them, give them the resources and say, you know,
• 33:04
  Sylvia: call this number, do this.
• 33:06
  Sylvia: You can't do it for them. They have to do it.
• 33:08
  Sylvia: But just being there, I think, is huge, huge. Yeah.
• 33:14
  Marvin: It's interesting, you know, listening to you talk, it makes me think about,
• 33:16
  Marvin: you know, the way I kind of talk
• 33:18
  Marvin: to my boys about stuff and I'll tell them that I can't want it for them.
• 33:22
  Marvin: But once they decide what they want to do or accomplish, that I will help them
• 33:28
  Marvin: move heaven and earth to make that happen.
• 33:31
  Sylvia: There you go. Exactly. Exactly. And I was very, very fortunate and blessed that
• 33:38
  Sylvia: I do have those type of people in my life.
• 33:41
  Sylvia: It made all the difference.
• 33:45
  Marvin: And Ian, what are your thoughts?
• 33:49
  Ian: Yeah mom kind of hit it um in
• 33:52
  Ian: the vein of practical support like you can help someone with you know you could
• 34:00
  Ian: think about maybe um practical assistance with like tasks or responsibilities
• 34:05
  Ian: that might feel overwhelming for them but being there going to meetings i went
• 34:10
  Ian: to plenty of meetings, uh,
• 34:12
  Ian: with mom and similar to what she basically said, it was a new world for me.
• 34:19
  Ian: It was something I was very uneducated around and I ended up educating myself
• 34:23
  Ian: about the world of recovery, uh, through those meetings.
• 34:28
  Ian: And then my own research, obviously it was not something that I had even dipped my toe in before.
• 34:34
  Ian: And I would say that that's, that's a huge thing. educate
• 34:37
  Ian: yourself even if you're not in recovery your
• 34:40
  Ian: loved one is so understanding the systems
• 34:44
  Ian: and the support groups that exist around it and the tenants of those systems
• 34:49
  Ian: and support groups is huge because it will allow you to understand what they're
• 34:55
  Ian: going through and also speak to it
• 34:57
  Ian: intelligently um and to do things to recognize like we went to a meeting.
• 35:04
  Ian: And a guy was there that was like seven days sober and everybody was like, congratulations.
• 35:09
  Ian: It's huge. Amazing. And they were, they were clapping for him and stuff.
• 35:12
  Ian: And I was like, uh, so we just to celebrate milestones, no matter the size,
• 35:18
  Ian: because they're huge, no matter what.
• 35:19
  Ian: And it was there that I started like really pushing to celebrate my mom's milestones
• 35:25
  Ian: and her achievements, be it 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
• 35:29
  Ian: Now it's, she's crushing it and she's in the years now. And every year on her
• 35:34
  Ian: sobriety date, we go out to dinner, just her and I, we talk a lot about her
• 35:39
  Ian: journey. We kind of revisit some stuff.
• 35:41
  Ian: And the first couple of years, it was heavy, but these days it's all smiles
• 35:47
  Ian: with a dash of heavy. But you celebrate those milestones.
• 35:51
  Ian: You celebrate the work that your loved one is putting into it. And that's huge.
• 35:57
  Ian: I feel as though anybody, it doesn't matter if you are 75, you've been sober for three weeks.
• 36:03
  Ian: If someone pats you on the back and they're like, hey, you're kicking ass,
• 36:08
  Ian: pardon my language, that it's still going to go a long way.
• 36:11
  Ian: People just want to understand that what they're doing is something to be proud
• 36:17
  Ian: of. And that absolutely is.
• 36:20
  Ian: Yeah. So mom kind of hit it, but I would really hammer home,
• 36:24
  Ian: like don't treat it as something that they're going through and they're driving
• 36:30
  Ian: in an F1 race and you're a big football fan.
• 36:32
  Ian: So you're not going to bother tuning in. Like you need to understand what the
• 36:36
  Ian: rules of the game are to properly help and support them.
• 36:41
  Marvin: Yeah. And, you know, the interesting thing is, you know, you are the one that
• 36:45
  Marvin: suggested fly fishing to your mother as part of her recovery.
• 36:48
  Marvin: And so I don't think we talked about this on the pre-interview call,
• 36:51
  Marvin: but you know, where did that come from?
• 36:53
  Marvin: I don't know if you're like a lifelong angler or like you watch something on TV.
• 36:57
  Ian: But, uh, no, uh, no, I am not a lifelong angler.
• 37:04
  Ian: Um, I, I will be completely honest with you.
• 37:08
  Ian: So mom, uh, she dragged me
• 37:11
  Ian: fishing a lot when we were when i was a kid and
• 37:14
  Ian: i was not a fan i didn't like fishing
• 37:17
  Ian: like at all as a kid because i never caught anything
• 37:20
  Ian: and uh i didn't like baiting the hook i
• 37:24
  Ian: didn't like any of that um but i know mom i knew mom was i knew mom had been
• 37:29
  Ian: fishing since she could hold a pole in her hand and she was uh you know just
• 37:34
  Ian: a natural born angler and um the whole reason that i suggested vested fly fishing to her.
• 37:42
  Ian: Is because I heard it was difficult. Like, I had heard that it was tough,
• 37:48
  Ian: and I was like, this will take up plenty of time.
• 37:52
  Ian: It's going to be something that'll just completely be tough to master.
• 37:56
  Ian: She'll have to sink a bunch of hours into it, and it'll completely occupy her brain.
• 38:02
  Ian: And boy, howdy, was I underestimating how hard she was going to go in the paint
• 38:10
  Ian: for that particular piece.
• 38:11
  Ian: Now now that i fly fish i know it's not as
• 38:14
  Ian: difficult as i thought it was i just i
• 38:17
  Ian: had heard it was tough so i was like yeah go try to fly fish go see how you
• 38:22
  Ian: do over there uh and we'll we'll hopefully keep you occupied for a while but
• 38:27
  Ian: uh that was the whole reason i heard it was tough and and she she saw that and
• 38:33
  Ian: took that as a personal affront to her ability it seems.
• 38:37
  Marvin: That's that's so funny because i mean that's basically kind of probably one
• 38:41
  Marvin: of the major attractions to for fly fishing for me is that it soaks up all of
• 38:46
  Marvin: that bandwidth and it's uh the other thing about it is for me it's it's a puzzle
• 38:51
  Marvin: that i can't consistently solve because if i could i would get bored right yeah.
• 38:56
  Sylvia: You're exactly right marvin you put that very well And Ian, yes,
• 39:01
  Sylvia: he was, you know, he dropped that on me.
• 39:04
  Sylvia: He's like, Mom, you should take up fly fishing.
• 39:07
  Sylvia: And I was like, fly fishing? Wow. Bing.
• 39:12
  Sylvia: And right off the bat, I thought, fly fishing? Where do you fly fish in Georgia?
• 39:16
  Sylvia: And how do I get involved into women even fly fishing? Like,
• 39:20
  Sylvia: I don't even know a woman who goes fly fishing.
• 39:23
  Sylvia: And, yeah, he dropped that nugget on me, and I ran with it. I really did.
• 39:29
  Sylvia: Ian, I always say fly fishing saved my life too.
• 39:34
  Sylvia: And Ian basically saved my life with fly fishing.
• 39:39
  Sylvia: But as soon as he said that, I jumped right into it.
• 39:43
  Sylvia: I went on a Google search, found the Georgia women's fly fishing,
• 39:48
  Sylvia: Georgia women's group here in Georgia, which is a phenomenal group for women
• 39:54
  Sylvia: who are starting out fly fishing and met the most incredible women.
• 39:59
  Sylvia: And the crazy thing was I was going to a nursing.
• 40:04
  Sylvia: I was attending a nursing supporting support group for nurses and recovery.
• 40:09
  Sylvia: And it was just a couple of days after Ian suggested fly fishing to me that
• 40:15
  Sylvia: I went to my regular meeting and we were sitting around the nurses and they said,
• 40:21
  Sylvia: everybody tell us something about something that you do in your spare time or what you enjoy doing.
• 40:26
  Sylvia: And the lady who went before me happened to be one of the co-founders of Reeling
• 40:31
  Sylvia: in Serenity who I'd never met, Jennifer Gilbert.
• 40:36
  Sylvia: And she said, I fly fish. And it was like, what?
• 40:41
  Sylvia: Here, Ian just mentioned this to me a couple of days ago.
• 40:45
  Sylvia: And now someone in my support group says they go fly fishing and they're part
• 40:49
  Sylvia: of Georgia Women's Fly Fakers.
• 40:50
  Sylvia: It was like, you know, like one of those moments where, okay, this is meant to be.
• 40:57
  Sylvia: And I started talking to Jen after the meeting and went to the first Georgia
• 41:03
  Sylvia: Women's Fly Fishing meeting with her at the next meeting.
• 41:07
  Sylvia: And from then on, just took their 101 fly fishing class, which I just loved.
• 41:15
  Sylvia: And I knew it was going to be a lifelong journey for me, fly fishing,
• 41:19
  Sylvia: just constant learning, constant challenge.
• 41:22
  Sylvia: And it has been. It has been. But that, that got me started on fly fishing. It was all Ian, all Ian.
• 41:29
  Sylvia: I couldn't be more grateful. I always say it's the best gift I've ever been
• 41:33
  Sylvia: given. And Ian gave it to me.
• 41:36
  Marvin: And, you know, it's kind of funny that we kind of were fishing for the same
• 41:40
  Marvin: reason, but, you know, you know, this is really a question for both of you.
• 41:44
  Marvin: You know, what is it that you think, you know, makes spending time on the water so healing? Yeah.
• 41:51
  Sylvia: Wow. Ian, you want to go first?
• 41:55
  Ian: Yeah. Yeah. God, there's tons of reasons, right?
• 42:00
  Ian: I mean, I think it's getting more
• 42:02
  Ian: and more attention these days as like a beneficial therapeutic activity.
• 42:11
  Ian: But we've kind of touched on some of the reasons. I think you really said it best, Marvin.
• 42:17
  Ian: It's a puzzle that you almost can't solve.
• 42:20
  Ian: And if you were, you'd get bored with it.
• 42:22
  Ian: There's easy to learn, difficult to master.
• 42:26
  Ian: It teaches so much. Patience being the number one thing for me.
• 42:34
  Ian: I mean, I've grown so much more patience just from my time on the water.
• 42:39
  Ian: And for a long time, I've always practiced mindfulness meditation.
• 42:44
  Ian: I think that it is a form of mindfulness meditation in its own right.
• 42:49
  Ian: I also think one of the biggest things is it can be really enjoyed alone as
• 42:57
  Ian: a solitary activity and with a group and the,
• 43:02
  Ian: the social network around fly fishing is so strong.
• 43:07
  Ian: I'm not sure what inherently draws such good people to the sport but i don't
• 43:14
  Ian: think i've ever met another angler on the water that i haven't uh considered
• 43:19
  Ian: to be the salt of the earth um,
• 43:23
  Ian: yeah and uh additionally it really just kind of uh.
• 43:29
  Ian: It fills your hours on the water with such a lovely sense of achievement,
• 43:35
  Ian: whether even if you don't catch a fish for the day, the fact that you have mastered
• 43:41
  Ian: a new technique or if you do catch your one fish,
• 43:46
  Ian: it really is such a boost and reinforces a lot of like the positive behaviors
• 43:51
  Ian: that are associated with recovery. Right.
• 43:54
  Ian: Like, uh, you know, setting and achieving goals, boosting your own self-esteem.
• 44:00
  Ian: Um, and yeah, really just, uh, it's such a healthy distraction from negative
• 44:07
  Ian: thoughts and cravings probably.
• 44:09
  Ian: Um, yeah, I, I definitely, uh, I can't, I cannot sing its praises enough.
• 44:15
  Ian: Sorry. I went off on a exponential tangent there. Mom, please save me.
• 44:23
  Sylvia: Ian you said it perfectly yeah i
• 44:26
  Sylvia: am i think yeah p and what
• 44:31
  Sylvia: ian said about i think you said it great that you can do it by yourself and
• 44:36
  Sylvia: with a group it doesn't matter you still get so much out of it for me patience
• 44:43
  Sylvia: was the biggest thing just teaching teaching myself to be patient with myself.
• 44:49
  Sylvia: And also forgiveness. I've learned a lot about forgiveness.
• 44:54
  Sylvia: That may sound weird, but forgiving myself if I mess something up or I,
• 45:00
  Sylvia: you know, I have days when I'm just in the trees the whole time,
• 45:04
  Sylvia: like just undoing knots and losing 25 flies.
• 45:08
  Sylvia: And okay, so that day was not the best day, but that's okay.
• 45:12
  Sylvia: I'm going to tackle it on my next trip.
• 45:15
  Sylvia: But I also learned something every time, every time.
• 45:19
  Sylvia: And I did it by myself for a long time.
• 45:24
  Sylvia: When I first started fly fishing, I was so gung ho.
• 45:28
  Sylvia: I, I went every, every spare moment I had.
• 45:33
  Sylvia: And I went by myself because I wanted to, you know, master my cast and learn about the water.
• 45:40
  Sylvia: And then I watched 900 YouTube videos, you know, I think we all do.
• 45:44
  Sylvia: I sat on my couch and practiced knots, you know, that was Becca,
• 45:49
  Sylvia: my dear friend, best friend, friend's advice, you know, just.
• 45:54
  Sylvia: Watch YouTube videos and practice on the couch. I had line everywhere and not
• 45:59
  Sylvia: so, you know, but it took up my time and Ian was right.
• 46:03
  Sylvia: It took up my time and I, I just dove into it, but being on the water,
• 46:09
  Sylvia: I've always loved water.
• 46:10
  Sylvia: I fished all my life as Ian said, and I've always found peace on the water.
• 46:16
  Sylvia: And that road to fly fishing took me back to where I used to be.
• 46:22
  Sylvia: And I, I realized how much I enjoyed being on the water and how much I enjoyed
• 46:27
  Sylvia: fishing and what it did for me.
• 46:30
  Sylvia: Again, patience, forgiveness.
• 46:34
  Sylvia: And I just agree 100% with me in the fly fishing community.
• 46:40
  Sylvia: You included, Marvin. You know, we've just met so many people that are nonjudgmental,
• 46:47
  Sylvia: are supportive. reported, don't,
• 46:50
  Sylvia: you know, you can tell them whatever reason you came to fly fishing.
• 46:55
  Sylvia: And believe me, I've heard so many, whether it's a personal trauma,
• 46:59
  Sylvia: whether it's addiction, whether it's, you know, just a difficult time in their
• 47:03
  Sylvia: life, they found fly fishing and it brought them peace.
• 47:06
  Sylvia: You can just hear so many stories and reasons to what brought someone to fly fishing.
• 47:13
  Sylvia: And it's just that peace and calm and disconnection from, you know,
• 47:20
  Sylvia: the everyday pressures and work and all that other stuff.
• 47:24
  Sylvia: You just you kind of lose that when you're on the water and you're focused.
• 47:29
  Sylvia: And it's just there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it.
• 47:34
  Marvin: Yeah. And I'm going to steal an eonism and, you know, talk about,
• 47:37
  Marvin: you know, it's one thing to spend time on the water, but you went pretty hard
• 47:40
  Marvin: in the paint and co-founded a not-for-profit, you know, with Becca Klein and
• 47:46
  Marvin: other people. So, like, how do you make that jump, right?
• 47:49
  Marvin: Because that's like a, that's another level of like, you know,
• 47:53
  Marvin: craziness and fly fishing, right?
• 47:56
  Sylvia: Yeah, you hit it right on the nose. Craziness is right. Right.
• 48:00
  Sylvia: If anyone says to you, let's start a nonprofit, don't think it's easy.
• 48:07
  Sylvia: But yeah, so my best friend, Becca Klein, we actually met through the Orvis
• 48:16
  Sylvia: fly fishing classes that Orvis puts on.
• 48:21
  Sylvia: And Becca was teaching one of those classes. And that's where Becca and I met
• 48:25
  Sylvia: and became friends. And I found out she was in recovery.
• 48:29
  Sylvia: I was in recovery. That drew us together.
• 48:32
  Sylvia: And Becca, along with a lot of other people, I have heard talk about starting,
• 48:38
  Sylvia: you know, a nonprofit where you can use fly fishing as healing for healing for
• 48:45
  Sylvia: multiple things, trauma, addiction.
• 48:47
  Sylvia: Addiction so it's not it wasn't necessarily
• 48:50
  Sylvia: a new idea but Becca has she's
• 48:54
  Sylvia: she's got gum she's she's got gumption and determination and drive and she said
• 49:00
  Sylvia: let's do this and so we it was myself Becca Jennifer Gilbert and Ian the four
• 49:09
  Sylvia: of us got together at my kitchen table and Becca's like like, let's do it.
• 49:14
  Sylvia: Let's start this thing. And we were all like, okay, let's do it.
• 49:18
  Sylvia: And so that's where it started a little over two years ago now.
• 49:24
  Sylvia: And it was the four of us really just said, let's do it and started it.
• 49:30
  Sylvia: Becca has a lot of experience.
• 49:33
  Sylvia: She works for Drive-In Riverkeeper, has worked for them for many years.
• 49:37
  Sylvia: So she has a lot of experience dealing with nonprofits.
• 49:40
  Sylvia: So she guided us and gave us all tasks and jobs to do.
• 49:46
  Sylvia: Ian's our IT man.
• 49:49
  Sylvia: He's our webmaster. then is
• 49:52
  Sylvia: our retreat coordinator and
• 49:56
  Sylvia: i did a little bit of everything to help
• 49:59
  Sylvia: support more administrative and finding
• 50:03
  Sylvia: resources and we just kind
• 50:07
  Sylvia: of said let's do it and so we started it it took a good year just to kind of
• 50:12
  Sylvia: get us on the ground to file for our 501c3 um uh status uh classification like
• 50:21
  Sylvia: it was it it was a lot of work um and then,
• 50:26
  Sylvia: we started talking about doing the retreats um and and it's been it's been a
• 50:31
  Sylvia: journey it's been a very very interesting journey but i'll let ian talk a little
• 50:36
  Sylvia: bit about it as well as how we got that um that level.
• 50:40
  Ian: Yeah no i mean just to
• 50:43
  Ian: echo uh mom i mean i know that
• 50:47
  Ian: the the true progenitor of
• 50:50
  Ian: the idea was was becca she had
• 50:53
  Ian: uh the she had wanted to do
• 50:56
  Ian: something like this for a long time where it was fly fishing
• 50:59
  Ian: is so inherently conducive to
• 51:02
  Ian: recovery why not marry the two and it
• 51:06
  Ian: really took us around that dining room table
• 51:09
  Ian: that night i mean i remember the night vividly um
• 51:12
  Ian: where she said guys i think you're the ones to do it and uh i think we can make
• 51:17
  Ian: this happen and i did feel very much included uh due to my technical expertise
• 51:22
  Ian: because they were like we'll need a website ian can handle that ian you can
• 51:27
  Ian: do all all this stuff that we're we're talking
• 51:29
  Ian: about right now and it did end up coming to
• 51:32
  Ian: pass as such but you know mom is correct
• 51:35
  Ian: in that it took us a little while to get our
• 51:38
  Ian: feet underneath this um because it was a it was a great idea uh but in other
• 51:44
  Ian: ways it was a harebrained scheme where we had no idea what we were doing we
• 51:48
  Ian: had becca who had some um experience in the non-profit industry and luckily
• 51:55
  Ian: had some some connections and some contacts.
• 51:57
  Ian: And also could offer some light around how you become a 501c3.
• 52:03
  Ian: And then what legal roads you need to tread to host things like retreats and
• 52:09
  Ian: make sure that your insurance liability is taken care of.
• 52:13
  Ian: And if you are going to accept donations, how do you go about it?
• 52:16
  Ian: How do you do it properly? So.
• 52:18
  Ian: There was a lot of fathoming it out in that first year and we've all grown so
• 52:23
  Ian: much. And now we know it like the back of our hands.
• 52:26
  Ian: But it really has been quite a journey to get where we are today because these
• 52:31
  Ian: days, I mean, I won't say like we've completely gone gangbusters, but we have a following.
• 52:36
  Ian: We're putting on some amazing events and it's honestly just a trip to go.
• 52:44
  Ian: And I just guided, uh, at a retreat weekend before last.
• 52:48
  Ian: And I still, I almost can't even believe it, how it affects some people that show up.
• 52:55
  Ian: And, you know, a lot of times the meetings that we held, people are moved to
• 52:59
  Ian: tears because it's, it's so, it's just so powerful.
• 53:03
  Ian: Um, but yeah, no, sorry. I hope that answers the question.
• 53:07
  Marvin: No, no, it's, I mean, it's an interesting thing. I mean, you know,
• 53:10
  Marvin: it's, I think in talking about the guiding thing,
• 53:12
  Marvin: I think, you know, it's an incredibly powerful thing
• 53:15
  Marvin: to help other people right not because it's
• 53:18
  Marvin: being good but like i don't know like i know you know
• 53:22
  Marvin: ian for me you know when i'm stressed out or really bothered i generally try
• 53:26
  Marvin: to not even i try to stop thinking about myself and just go help somebody right
• 53:30
  Marvin: and it is a powerful thing to see you know and i think you know as human beings
• 53:35
  Marvin: the most generous thing we can give is our time right so you know just to be
• 53:39
  Marvin: there on the water with other people or whatever it is.
• 53:41
  Marvin: Um, you know, I think, uh, I think it's an amazing thing, but yeah,
• 53:46
  Marvin: it's interesting hearing you guys talk about starting it up, right.
• 53:48
  Marvin: Cause you have all this energy and you've got to put all that energy into the flux capacitor.
• 53:52
  Ian: Yes.
• 53:52
  Sylvia: Yeah.
• 53:53
  Ian: Right.
• 53:54
  Marvin: And make it work. But, you know, I know you guys do retreats,
• 53:57
  Marvin: but talk a little bit about, um, you know, how reeling and serenity supports people in recovery.
• 54:05
  Sylvia: So our retreat, um, we, We have the participants.
• 54:12
  Sylvia: I think you had asked before, too, like what what you have, how can you participate
• 54:18
  Sylvia: and how can you join or, you know, take part in the retreat?
• 54:22
  Sylvia: So our retreats are for people who are in active recovery from substance abuse, men and women.
• 54:29
  Sylvia: And we do have a requirement that you have to be in recovery for a minimum of
• 54:35
  Sylvia: 30 days or have at least a sponsor support group that you are in active recovery,
• 54:42
  Sylvia: whether you're in a sober living, anything like that.
• 54:44
  Sylvia: And one of the reasons is because when you're in early recovery,
• 54:48
  Sylvia: a lot of things can happen, you know, health-wise.
• 54:52
  Sylvia: So we make that one of our key things.
• 54:58
  Sylvia: Guidelines for being able to participate in the retreat.
• 55:02
  Sylvia: But as long as you meet those classifications, because we are not like a recovery center,
• 55:08
  Sylvia: we're there to offer support and to share fly fishing as a way to bring you
• 55:14
  Sylvia: some peace or something that you can do that is healthy once you are in recovery.
• 55:20
  Sylvia: So for participants, we are
• 55:23
  Sylvia: open for participants who meet those those
• 55:26
  Sylvia: classifications and then as a volunteer
• 55:29
  Sylvia: really the biggest thing is being able
• 55:32
  Sylvia: to relate to someone who's in recovery you don't have to be a professional guide
• 55:37
  Sylvia: to to be a guide on the water with a participant in our retreat but you have
• 55:43
  Sylvia: to be able to at least talk to someone because the key thing for our retreats
• 55:48
  Sylvia: is when you're on the water and you have a guide with you.
• 55:52
  Sylvia: We kind of want you talking about your recovery and learning,
• 55:56
  Sylvia: you know, fly fishing as well, which is huge, but also being able to talk to
• 56:01
  Sylvia: that person about the journey that you've had.
• 56:04
  Sylvia: And we've been so fortunate. All our volunteers and guides are wonderful about that.
• 56:09
  Sylvia: And you don't have to be in recovery to be a volunteer for Reeling in Serenity.
• 56:17
  Sylvia: We just ask that you know
• 56:19
  Sylvia: for the most part everyone who's involved in our wonderful board
• 56:23
  Sylvia: of directors we have a phenomenal board they
• 56:27
  Sylvia: all are not in recovery but they have been exposed to someone who is in recovery
• 56:33
  Sylvia: whether it's a friend a family member and they're very passionate about the
• 56:37
  Sylvia: project itself and you know it's not easy to volunteer your time we don't work strictly nonprofit.
• 56:44
  Sylvia: We don't get salaries, anything. Everything is on our spare time.
• 56:49
  Sylvia: So it can be a little bit, you know, some work, but we all share it and we just have a phenomenal team.
• 56:58
  Sylvia: But we also give resources to our participants.
• 57:02
  Sylvia: Jennifer Gilbert made a booklet that we hand out to all our participants with
• 57:07
  Sylvia: resources that they can reach out to.
• 57:09
  Sylvia: We also have started an online line meeting, which has gone gangbusters.
• 57:14
  Sylvia: We just had our first meeting a couple of weeks ago. And.
• 57:19
  Sylvia: Let me just mention our additional staff real quick. We have Georgia Skuza,
• 57:24
  Sylvia: who does our social media.
• 57:26
  Sylvia: We have Will Henry, who is one of our coordinators, who also works on support
• 57:32
  Sylvia: and is working on a host manual for us.
• 57:36
  Sylvia: And then Jen, myself, Ian, and then our board of directors.
• 57:42
  Sylvia: And then we have other volunteers who help us as well, Jamie Eisenberg and Jim
• 57:46
  Sylvia: McLean, who's part of TU Trout Unlimited, that have also joined us to help support others in recovery.
• 57:54
  Sylvia: One of the other things we do is we do monthly outings, monthly fishing outings
• 57:59
  Sylvia: that we just started for people in recovery who want to come join us to fish.
• 58:02
  Sylvia: And then we also have a Facebook page where we also have a group where you can
• 58:09
  Sylvia: just comment and talk about recovery.
• 58:11
  Sylvia: And then our online meetings, as I said, we just started those and we've had a huge response to that.
• 58:17
  Sylvia: A lot of people who may not be able to attend a retreat, but want to talk about
• 58:23
  Sylvia: recovery and fly fishing.
• 58:25
  Sylvia: So that's another way that we're trying to support people in recovery.
• 58:29
  Sylvia: And we hope within the next year to have our host manual available so that others
• 58:36
  Sylvia: in different states can host a retreat and we give them the blueprint for doing
• 58:41
  Sylvia: that so that we don't necessarily have to have a staff member there. So we're.
• 58:46
  Sylvia: We support it in the sense that we're there to kind of help you start to do
• 58:51
  Sylvia: something healthy for yourself and help you find peace, hopefully through fly fishing.
• 58:58
  Sylvia: That's really our goal.
• 58:59
  Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because I know you've gotten support from a
• 59:03
  Marvin: lot of great people in the fly fishing community.
• 59:06
  Marvin: You know, gosh, I mean, you know the list way better than I can.
• 59:10
  Marvin: But I know, for example, like Jimmy Harris at Unicoi. And I know that alcoholism
• 59:14
  Marvin: touched his life. We talked about it when I interviewed him.
• 59:17
  Marvin: But, you know, if you could kind of share with folks, you know,
• 59:19
  Marvin: some of the brands, shops and people that have been incredibly supportive of your organization.
• 59:26
  Sylvia: Wow. We have been so fortunate. And I always think back to, I would encourage
• 59:33
  Sylvia: everybody to go to our website, reelinginserenity.org.
• 59:38
  Sylvia: And if you look at the staff and our bios, they're very short.
• 59:43
  Sylvia: But um the one
• 59:46
  Sylvia: that always touches me is ian because he mentions
• 59:50
  Sylvia: in his bio just the support from the fly fishing community um and the support
• 59:56
  Sylvia: that you know they've given us and again i'll just say the fly fish community
• 1:00:01
  Sylvia: has been just incredible incredible we have had such great support jimmy Harris,
• 1:00:08
  Sylvia: Uniqlo Outfitters, has been phenomenal.
• 1:00:12
  Sylvia: He has supported us. He supports Becca in every step that we have done.
• 1:00:16
  Sylvia: He has just been unbelievable.
• 1:00:18
  Sylvia: And also in hosting retreats, sharing his water with us, letting us use it to have retreats.
• 1:00:26
  Sylvia: And then also Scott Lowe at Hatch Camp and Art Farm in Clayton,
• 1:00:31
  Sylvia: Georgia, where we just had our last retreat.
• 1:00:35
  Sylvia: He's hosted a retreat two years in a row.
• 1:00:38
  Sylvia: And, you know, we kind of look at it like,
• 1:00:41
  Sylvia: They could be making money that day, you know, and they're giving that up for
• 1:00:46
  Sylvia: us, you know, to provide a place for us to have a retreat for the whole day.
• 1:00:51
  Sylvia: And we've just had phenomenal support.
• 1:00:55
  Sylvia: Also, River's Edge on the Soqui, Tammy Harris also has, you know, hosted retreats for us.
• 1:01:02
  Sylvia: Our first retreat was hosted at the River's Edge on the Soqui.
• 1:01:06
  Sylvia: That was phenomenal. She's always gracious with her time, the water,
• 1:01:11
  Sylvia: anything we need, she's there.
• 1:01:15
  Sylvia: We have had Israel Patterson from Uniquay Outfitters has been our photographer
• 1:01:21
  Sylvia: for events, also our videographer.
• 1:01:24
  Sylvia: He gives his time and expertise.
• 1:01:26
  Sylvia: We also now have kind of expanded because we have a retreat coming up in Montana this year.
• 1:01:33
  Sylvia: The 320 Guest Ranch in Montana is hosting a retreat.
• 1:01:37
  Sylvia: They're giving their time and resources for the
• 1:01:40
  Sylvia: day um we've had um we've
• 1:01:44
  Sylvia: just it's it's been phenomenal the list goes on katie kahn just volunteered
• 1:01:49
  Sylvia: to to be a photographer at our last retreat um we it's just amazing the support
• 1:01:55
  Sylvia: we've had just amazing the list the list is long yeah and.
• 1:02:00
  Marvin: You know you want to kind of i know you kind of touched on some and i know you've
• 1:02:03
  Marvin: got a big event? Because Ian and I talked about it the last time we spoke.
• 1:02:07
  Marvin: You want to kind of maybe give us maybe the next kind of three or four upcoming
• 1:02:12
  Marvin: events you guys have going on that people can be on the lookout for?
• 1:02:16
  Sylvia: Sure. So we did have a retreat in Pennsylvania. We did have to postpone it because of the weather.
• 1:02:22
  Sylvia: It was not cooperating and the water levels were extremely high and unsafe.
• 1:02:26
  Sylvia: So we have the retreat in Pennsylvania. That's going to be at the Delaware Wear River Club.
• 1:02:32
  Sylvia: So we're going to set a new date for that.
• 1:02:35
  Sylvia: So keep an eye on our website for the new date.
• 1:02:38
  Sylvia: We also have one coming up in October in North Carolina, and that will be on the Mills River.
• 1:02:48
  Sylvia: We have DB Bar D Outfitters. They're hosting that retreat for us.
• 1:02:54
  Sylvia: And Zach Davis, us. One of our board members is organizing that with me.
• 1:02:58
  Sylvia: And Zach is one of our board members, like I said, extremely supportive and
• 1:03:04
  Sylvia: ready to help and ready to organize that retreat.
• 1:03:07
  Sylvia: Then we also have a retreat coming up in September, like I said,
• 1:03:11
  Sylvia: in Montana, which will be our first in Montana at the 320 Guest Ranch.
• 1:03:16
  Sylvia: Then we have another retreat in Colorado. One of our board members,
• 1:03:20
  Sylvia: John Eatston, who is a new board member, he is hosting that retreat.
• 1:03:24
  Sylvia: It's going going to be at the able rant lake george colorado and that's coming
• 1:03:29
  Sylvia: up august 18th and let's see did i miss anything no.
• 1:03:36
  Ian: I think you hit them all yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Marvin: Yeah but you're also you've got an auction coming up right.
• 1:03:41
  Ian: Yeah. And I would call out that, um, obviously that's another big thing of the
• 1:03:46
  Ian: phenomenal people who stepped up to support us is last year we,
• 1:03:51
  Ian: we hosted our first silent auction and we,
• 1:03:53
  Ian: we auctioned off some really amazing stuff from a lot of people that donated
• 1:03:59
  Ian: to help support the cause.
• 1:04:00
  Ian: I mean, we had fishing trips up there. You could bid on, um,
• 1:04:04
  Ian: that were, it was all over the place from, I think, all the way in California,
• 1:04:09
  Ian: all the way here in Georgia.
• 1:04:10
  Ian: So the entirety of the contiguous United States covered as far as fishing for
• 1:04:16
  Ian: sharks down in Florida or fishing for tarpon or fishing up in Oregon for trout.
• 1:04:22
  Ian: And then there was all sorts of stuff for like rod holders and paintings of
• 1:04:27
  Ian: fish and stuff like that.
• 1:04:28
  Ian: We had some really cool stuff and we're doing it again this year.
• 1:04:31
  Ian: We've already got some really amazing stuff donated, some great trips, some great gear.
• 1:04:37
  Ian: Reels rods the usual suspects as well some interesting
• 1:04:39
  Ian: stuff uh you know pairing knives and flies
• 1:04:42
  Ian: and all sorts of amazing stuff so uh we
• 1:04:46
  Ian: do have that auction coming up and i mean i'll be
• 1:04:48
  Ian: honest there were some killer deals that people got
• 1:04:51
  Ian: away with last year like as far as what they walked away with versus what they
• 1:04:56
  Ian: bid um so i will i will we will obviously post it on the website it'll be part
• 1:05:01
  Ian: of the newsletter and uh yeah and when it goes live i highly recommend dropping
• 1:05:05
  Ian: a a few lowball bids to see if you can get away with murder on some of these trips.
• 1:05:10
  Marvin: Yeah. So two follow-up questions there.
• 1:05:13
  Marvin: Obviously, I'm sure you're collecting things for this upcoming auction.
• 1:05:19
  Marvin: So one, how should people reach out if they have something that they want to donate?
• 1:05:23
  Marvin: And two, as my grandmother used to always say, she would give me a check for
• 1:05:27
  Marvin: my birthday, and she'd say, always the right size and always the right color.
• 1:05:30
  Marvin: If people don't have something that they can donate, but they want to give you
• 1:05:35
  Marvin: some money or their time, how should they get in touch?
• 1:05:39
  Ian: Great question. You can do it all through our website or obviously any of the social media channels.
• 1:05:46
  Ian: If you want to reach out to us via Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,
• 1:05:50
  Ian: even, we're on everything.
• 1:05:52
  Ian: But the website is the biggest piece. We have a catch-all email address there
• 1:05:56
  Ian: on the website, info at reelinginserenity.org, if you have something that you
• 1:06:00
  Ian: want to ask us before you donate.
• 1:06:01
  Ian: But right at the top of the page on our main website is
• 1:06:04
  Ian: a donate now button that'll take you to a page where
• 1:06:07
  Ian: you can either donate monetarily or for an item if you would like to donate
• 1:06:12
  Ian: to something for the auction um and then yeah if you have any questions you
• 1:06:16
  Ian: know you can email us ping us via a direct message um we are open and we get
• 1:06:21
  Ian: all sorts of inquiries from all shades and And all four of us,
• 1:06:25
  Ian: the main staff members, myself,
• 1:06:27
  Ian: my mom, Jennifer, and William and Georgia as well, actually, we man the pages.
• 1:06:36
  Ian: So we're all the ones responding to you at any given time. Everybody sees them come in.
• 1:06:41
  Marvin: Got it. Well, listen, Sylvia and Ian, I really appreciate you spending some
• 1:06:46
  Marvin: time with me this evening and particularly sharing a really personal story.
• 1:06:51
  Marvin: And it's really special. Marshall, I appreciate you letting me share that experience with you.
• 1:06:55
  Marvin: And, you know, hopefully I'll get to spend some time on the water with you guys soon. Take care.
• 1:07:01
  Sylvia: Yes, we hope so. Thank you, Marvin. Appreciate it.
• 1:07:06
  Intro: Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoy bringing it to you.
• 1:07:09
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• 1:07:13
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• 1:07:16
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