Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / REMIX: Album 7 Track 20 - Brands, Meet Humanology w/Ivan Juzang

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REMIX: Album 7 Track 20 - Brands, Meet Humanology w/Ivan Juzang · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds. Brand Nerds. Brand Nerds. Larry, sometimes we are blessed on our podcast here of Brands, Beats and Bytes, to have friends and family. Sometimes we have friends and family that we also work with. And then we have on the rare occasion, friends and family who we also have worked with and do work with who have charted a completely unique career path. And today we have such an individual. Brand Nerds. If I told you these institutions, these learning institutions, uh, Carnegie Mellon, one of the best. Educational institutions in the world, followed by a Wharton MBA and Wharton is the number one full-time MBA number one ranked full-time MBA program on the planet, on, on the planet. If I told you someone went to those two universities and did not decide to go onto Wall Street, did not decide to go high, finance did not decide to say, you know what, Goldman Sachs, I'm gonna step over here and work with you with coming out of B-School, pull down seven, eight figures, but instead dedicated their lives, launching their own company into understanding and helping people who are in the most need of high level branding and communications. If I told you that, most of you would think I was nuts, but that's a true story. And today we have the person who actually made that decision, started his company decades ago, and Brand Nerds. I will tell you another connection here. For those of you all who have heard the Sprite, uh, bright brand story, you might be going, okay, DC, I don't typically speak of myself in third person, but I'm gonna do it here, DC We're, we're tired of hearing about you at Sprite. Can we move on to something else? The answer is yes, we've move on. We've moved on to many things, but the Sprite story still is relevant. It would not have happened without this gentleman who is in the building today. Larry, would you please let the Brand Nerds know who they have the auspicious occasion to listen to today? D LT: DC What a setup. We have Ivan Juzang in the house today. Welcome, Ivan. Ivan Juzang: Hi. Hey, you guys. Thanks DC, but there's a lot of people who are sitting there going, yeah, he's still crazy. DC: Yeah, I I am still crazy. That's right. And I'm not changing Ivan. Okay. I'm not changing. We neither. No, he is not Ivan, but, and Ivan, you know, for, for the show, DC's alluded to your background, but we, we give the, um, the full background so our Brand Nerds really know who's in the building with us. So, as DC alluded to, Brand Nerds, you know, DC and Ivan go way back and I have been personally fortunate enough to also work with Ivan and his wonderful team for years now. He's also a great friend and you will quickly discern why Ivan needs to be a guest on this podcast. So, DC started to do it, but we're gonna walk you through Ivan's fantastic background, so, okay. Ivan's dad was in the Air Force, so he grew up all over the world with the longest stints where he was born in Albuquerque and a six year stint in Germany. He then goes on to college as DC alluded to this at the prestigious Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, where he earns an undergrad degree in mechanical engineering and economics. And by the way, he's also a D3 All American in the long jump. Alright, Ivan's first job outta school was with IBM as a regional advisory marketing rep where he is responsible for developing long-term customer partnerships with targeted Fortune 100 accounts in the area of computer integrated manufacturing. Additionally, he develops and executes successful top-down marketing programs, resulting in the installation of large information systems, and also teaches internal product sales and marketing strategy seminars after five very successful years, at IBM, Ivan decides to go back to business school and as DC alluded to, he attends the esteemed, the University of Pennsylvania Wharton School, earning an MBA in in finance. So with an MBA in finance, as DC said, uh, and from Wharton, one can easily obtain a high power gig on Wall Street or some other equivalent, but instead, while still in B-School, Ivan follows his heart and he founds MEE Productions Inc. A unique communications research and behavioral health marketing company after developing and executing the original me business product concept. He recruits his management team negotiates venture capital financing and secures the first major research contract from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. MEE's First National Marketing Research Report. The ME report reaching the hip hop generation generates lots of national attention and puts MEE on the map, helping secure both public and private sector clients, including the CDC and the Coca-Cola company where DC and Ivan first start to work together. From the beginning, Ivan has remained committed to a founding principle to use socially responsible entrepreneurship to reach and positively influence the lives of low income, urban, and ethnic audiences. MEE has become an industry leader assisting a variety of clients in achieving dramatic results with difficult to reach target populations, including low income urban youth, MEE offices in Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Los Angeles. Lastly, I've been outside of MIA over the years, has served as community in numerous ways, including the Board of Trustees for the National AIDS Fund Board member for the Nurse Family Partnership, multicultural Behavior Change Expert Panel for the Office of National Drug Control Policy Advisory Committee on Public Issues for the Ad Council and Advisory Committee for Injury Prevention and Control for the US Center for Disease Control. Really looking forward to this one Brand Nerds. Welcome to Brands Beats and Bytes, Ivan Juzang. Ivan Juzang: Wow. I, first of all, that was accurate, but how did you get that information? I was like, blown. That was like a true bio. That's, that's fairly accurate too. Wow. That's, that's interesting. LT: I hope it's more than fairly accurate, Ivan. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. I, I've never heard it read to me and know I've read it, but I've, you know. That's amazing. Thank you. DC: Ivan, we often find our guests when they are listening to this, it is the first time that they've ever heard it read. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: They've ever heard it red and, and in front of them while people are watching the reaction. And Larry does a fantastic job. Larry, Larry likes to say it's all, it's all the guests. It's all you. So he, he is talking about you and it's a bit not to get morbid here, like getting your flowers before you're gone. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. I appreciate that. That was nice. DC: Be before you go. Well, well done. LT: You did it all. DC: Well, well done, Mike. Ivan Juzang: Welcome. Thanks you guys for having me. I'm looking forward to the conversation. DC: Ivan. Our next section, first section actually is called Get Comfy. This is where, uh, we ask you a question just to get you into the flow before we start to get into some of the other questions in the podcast. Before I give you this question though, I just, I wanna make a clarification. When Larry described the company as MEE productions, that is an acronym. It's not me as in me, the person, it's MEE. LT: Thank you, DC I'm glad you said that. I'll, we're so used to working with, with MEE and Ivan, we're so used to working with, with, with I, that, that needs to be said to the, to the Brand Nerds So. Thanks. So it's MEE Brand Nerds, and it's actually all capitals. M, capital E. Capital E. DC: Yep. And Ivan, can you, uh, just share with the folks what, what each of the, uh, letters stand for? And then I'll get to my question. Ivan Juzang: In, in 19 89, 90 when I was trying to come up with a name, right. Um, for the business, again, trying to think about what we really were trying to do, at the end of the day, what were we monetizing? It was the notion that we wanted to do something that was motivational, educational, but entertainment. And the key part was entertainment. We, we wanted it to be, you know, within the cultural framework, we wanted it to be, you know, we wanted it to speak to their worldview. We wanted it to speak to, you know, storytelling. So it was the whole notion that entertainment in a positive way, we wanted to use. To be able to wrap the motivation and edu and the skills part into, and ultimately that's, you know, that, that kind of happened, but in a much different way than I thought when I was developing the business plan DC: Because Ivan, that's a wonderful segue to my Get Comfy question. It that entertainment part, brand nerds. You've heard Larry and I talk about the business that we are actually in. We're not actually in the marketing and brand build business. We're actually in the psychology business and the entertainment business. LT: Yeah. DC: That's, that's what we're actually in. LT: Yep. DC: And we use both psychology and entertainment to drive behavior. LT: Right. DC: So we, because people, people start to move. Behave. They vote, they buy, they spend time with things that move them emotionally. LT: Yeah. DC: And oftentimes that's entertainment based. Which brings me to this. Ivan and I met decades ago as I was in the midst of repositioning the Sprite brand. And I, and I learned of Ivan from a dear friend of mine named Leslie Fontano. So Leslie Fontano worked at a, uh, agency called Burrell Communications Group, so they may have been called Burrell Advertising at the time. She was one of the account people and very involved in the, uh, repositioning of the Sprite brand herself, as well as, uh, was the firm. And she introduces me to Ivan. And it became very apparent to me thinking about behavior that a firm that had the ability to convince young people, young men in particular, in densely populated urban areas to use a condom for safe sex. If that company and that mind of Ivan and his team could drive that kind of behavior, they could certainly help me drive the behavior of those who would drink a Sprite I thought, I thought this should be easy for Ivan and and MEE Productions in any of that. LT: By the way, Ivan, he's told this story a lot of times Ivan Juzang: That, right? I have you, I I didn't know that DC: without you present that. LT: That's why I'm, that's why I knew Ivan didn't know that, that's why I said that. Go on. DI glad just said that DC: Larry. I just assumed that I've told Ivan this, uh, before, but I don't think I have, so I say this quite often whenever I'm asking about the Sprite story. I talk about you, Ivan. It does introductions in this particular, uh, uh, insight that I had about you all carrying on. So Ivan, uh, he, he then helps me. On the Sprite brand. And one of the most important things that he does, and it still lives on today, Ivan, is he helped me craft Brand Nerds, the Sprite Manifesto. Now, these manifestos or these manifestos, they're, they've been all the rave. Now they may have even gone outta style, but before they were a thing, Ivan and I made it a thing together and we, we cod drafted that and, you know, the results of Sprite, uh, afterwards, even to this day, Sprite, uh, Ivan, I don't know if you knew this, but Sprite is now the number three largest non, uh, alcoholic carbonated soft drink in the country. It passed Pepsi. Wow. Yeah. So that, so no, no. Seven up stuff. It passed pep long ago. It, it it body passed. Yeah. It passed seven up, right? Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: But, but now it's bigger than, um, uh, than than Pepsi. Which then leads me to this question. Uh, well, actually one other comment. MEE Production also did quite a bit of marketing in the entertainment space for movie studios. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: Most of the films were urban films targeting primarily, uh, African-Americans, but relevant to, uh, uh, folks beyond the African American diaspora. And, uh, but they, they were movies that were a little violent in some cases. And then Ivan Juzang: Menace to Society, DC: Menace to Society, that's one of 'em. Minister Society, the name says it all. Um, you know, sh sh uh, shout O-Dog and then, uh, on Sprite. Ivan's laughing Brand Nerds, you can't see him. He's cracking up, uh, on Sprite. Of course, this is a carbonated sugar soft drink. So after a while with great success in the entertainment space, including on Sprite with the CPG, Ivan made a decision for MEE Productions that they weren't going to bring their talent to help folks doing what I was doing and what, uh, his other client was doing. What was the brother's name that was at the studio? I think it was New Line Cinema. Ivan Juzang: Oh, it was New Line Cinema. There was, um, I mean we worked with 'em all Focus Features, grammar. DC: Oh, Preston, Preston Holmes. Ivan Juzang: Preston Holmes, yeah. Oh yeah. Preston, we have a long relationship. DC: Yeah. Long Preston Holmes. Shout Preston. Holmes. You So Ivan decided Yo Preston, yo DC again, use it. Third person. We're not gonna do this with you guys anymore. So the question, Ivan, is what precipitated your decision to make that pivot, which was obviously lucrative to MEE Productions. Ivan Juzang: Well. Well, um. First of all, just a footnote earlier, I just wanna, uh, you know, give flowers to Leslie Fontano because DC: Yeah. Ivan Juzang: It's funny, you know, you gotta realize at that point in time, we were just too much two years in really. Yeah. In terms of really operating and give credit to Burrell, Leslie, you know, Darrell, just so you know, they never, once they realized you had selected us and you wanted to work directly with us, there was never any kind of blockage. It was just encouragement. DC: No. Ivan Juzang: Get the business way to go. And, you know, sometimes people think that everyone's stabbing each other in the back and that Yeah. That was just the opposite. They, they were, they actually were on ramp. Uh, yeah. And so I want to acknowledge that. Um, can I just say this and LT: Ivan, I just wanna point something out that's not, that is unfortunately not the norm with many business relationships and introductions like this. So real shout out to Burrell on that. Go ahead. DC: Yeah. I was gonna, I was gonna say something similar, Larry, thanks for adding that. Tom Burrell, the way he ran his company, it's no surprise that this was the case. He is a man of high integrity. And also number two, uh, Ivan, I didn't play that. So even if someone had decided they were gonna muck with you, that was, that that wasn't gonna go down, but go ahead. All right. Ivan Juzang: Well, maybe that's why the, the felt so smooth. He had already greased the skids. No, that's always good. But listen, what happened? You know, I, I, I, I have to always say is that long as you learn something from your experiences, so even though ultimately I had to turn against, you know, Coca-Cola and the movie studios mm-hmm. You know, I still have those learnings, that private sector approach. Uh, I was able now to take more into the public sector and say, you know, what works, what, what are the learnings that worked? Mm-hmm. But in reality, what happened you guys, in terms of Coke, uh, and Sprite was, I'm stall, I'm starting now. Initially with me productions, we we're, we were doing private sector stuff, like all the movies we worked on over 70 films in terms of market research and advertising. But the point was we started learning on the Sprite side as we worked more and more in these, in, in the communities that we come from, you can't sell to these kids 22 teaspoons of sugar. You know what I mean? At some point when you look at the obesity epidemic, and again, understand that it's a non-alcoholic beverage, and you know, there's, yeah. So I I, I have no judgment on it. It was, it just became in conflict to the obesity work we were doing. 'cause we were actually seeing the impact of the product. And the same thing with the movies. But in terms of just psychological, right? LT: Yeah. Ivan Juzang: Um, I mean we, we, I tell you, we worked on some amazing films. I mean. Uh, Menace to Society Friday. We worked on all the Friday movies. We worked, I tell you one of my favorite Darryl still is Dead Presidents. The Hughs brothers were ex these were two extremely talented young men. I mean, they really had a artistic talent and, um, so you, so it was great. But then the, but over time the content was low common denominator or stereotypical. And I, and even though again, I was happy to work, you know, on a number of, um, uh, boys, uh, uh, John Singleton movies, I was, you know, really worked on Boys in the Hood. Yeah. But didn't work on that one, but worked on, uh, Baby Boy. Oh baby. Okay. DC: Yep. Ivan Juzang: And, and, and to be right in terms of his art, he's still an amazing artist. It was just looking at the content even then that started making us say. This is what we don't wanna really be selling. Um, and so ultimately nothing against anyone else that was in that space. You know, we had already, long before then, we weren't doing any tobacco. We weren't doing any alcohol. Yeah. So we just, you know, we, we kept learning. DC: Yeah. Uh, I, I admire the decision. You, you had a vibrant private sector, uh, part of your business. You were successful. Uh, highly effective. And this is one of those, it's a, it's a bit like, uh, the old saying in the, uh, marketing industry is that nothing kills a bad product, uh, faster than great advertising. And, uh, and, and you helped me and others do such an effective job at growing our brands, that that 22 teaspoons. Became 44 then 88. Yeah. Then 1 66. They, it just kept going on and on. So I, I get it. And I admire your, your decision, Ivan. I admire it. Ivan Juzang: Thank you. DC: You're welcome. Larry, anything to add to that? It's very cool. LT: Yeah. I think it's, it just knowing you, Ivan, I'm not surprised. Like, I feel like you've always been so motivated and, you know, not be, not have the, the money be the lead that that'll work itself out. And I, I just think there's, there's so much to glean and learn from that. Ivan Juzang: I, I, I would like to say something about our, um, our Sprite years though. Mm-hmm. I, I do wanna share DC I'd like to get your thoughts on this. One of the things I learned about DC and, and working on Sprite is we, we, I learned the macro impact that hip hop culture had. I mean, it, it was really. You're sitting there going, this dude is taking this from this to here, and he's using a worldview and a culture. Yep. And the music to go with it. I mean, I think we, we don't, we, we forget that that's a learning is that I, I'm, I'm convinced, and actually I'm hoping that, you know, the kind of impact that DC had on promoting hip hop culture as a commercial tool ultimately, I think influences the whole society. Right. Because I, I really believe that we're gonna see the benefit of hip hop culture from 30 years ago as those folks really start maturing and becoming more part of the political life in America. I think hip hop culture thi it, this is a moment where we're gonna see if hip hop culture has the value. I think it really has. DC: Hmm. LT: Well said. DC: Yeah. Uh, Ivan, thank you for saying that. I, I think you'll know this. Larry certainly knows this. Had you said to me and had someone said to you 30 years ago what we were building to demonstrate the commercial viability of hip hop Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: As a, as a culture beyond just the music that we'd be sitting here watching, what we're watching now around the world. I would've told you that you were categorically insane. I, I would, I would've said that. Uh, now here we are, and I, I think this point you're making is profound and I want to go a step further and say the challenge for us, all of us, you included Ivan, who have been a part of helping to build hip hop into a culture meets commerce. Vehicle for helping people brand things, thereby giving hu humans of all hues, the ability to attach to and express themselves through a identity called hip hop. The challenge is how do we take and harness that power for good? And I think that's on the horizon. LT: Yeah, I agree. I do too. Cool. DC: Cool. Larry, anything, uh, any more to add before we go to five questions? LT: Let's, let's move on. Here we are. DC: Here we are. Five questions. This is how it goes down. Ivan, Larry and I go back and forth with five questions. I get to start and it is this. Take yourself back, my brother, maybe when you were a young short. You had the first branding experience that blew your mind. You, you didn't know it was a brand necessarily. It was called a brand you didn't know. It was called a brand experience, but you couldn't get enough of it. You couldn't spend enough time with it, couldn't wear it enough, couldn't covet it enough. You just had to have this thing almost like a first love. What was this for you, Ivan? Ivan Juzang: That's a good question. I mean, as old as I am, I, I kind of have two that really were like, where you realize now those were, you know, you were, you were having an experience, right. With a brand and the experience. My first one was when I was a, I was a kid. I was, I was blown away as a kid. You guys may not be old enough, but when Baskin Robbins first came out, Baskin Robbins. LT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ivan Juzang: 31 flavors. And I was a kid in. You would kind of go, it was more like a parlor's, like you'd go to this place. Yeah. And this, it was like, yeah, I, I could do this all the time. You know what I mean? Like, that was probably my first one where I was like, yeah, this is, uh, this has my attention. I didn't know it was a brand. Right. Yeah. But I wouldn't even Right. I know. I was like sold, you know, I really was sold. LT: Okay. That's a good one, Ivan. That is a good one. Ivan Juzang: That's a good. And then the second one, you guys was very early in my career when I first met DC Uh, we started working, like I said, on, on these movies, particularly for a studio called, and Darryl will know this, you know him too, Larry, New Line Cinema. You talk about a brand. Yeah. So I we're doing focus groups for all their urban films. We're, we're doing market testing and back then we would help them, we'd develop the trailer, which is the most pivotal advertising tool. Like, you know, the trailer was it? If you had a trailer. I mean, you literally could have a first weekend, you know, box office, which is what they were looking for. Yep. Man, what I learned after probably testing LAU seven, eight films. Now think about this. You guys will know this. We would start, we'd get the movies six months in advance. So we're taking these movies all across the country, uh, particularly in urban communities. You know, we're talking to low income urban youth about these films. And I remember you guys like, and again, this is why this was an experience for me about the eighth film. We're working on, the New Line Cinema logo comes up. I don't know if you guys see it, but in comes and then the all it had, it's a very distinct swear to God, you guys, the kids had not even seen the film, but they saw the logo and they knew the content was for them. Wow. That blew me away. They're like, oh, this is an urban film. And they were doing, you gotta remember, new Line was doing all kind of films. They were, they were urban division. Yeah. But for those kids, they had seen, they had already seen, uh, Menace to Society 50 times on VHS At that point. That was still being, yes. Um, I mean, that was a cult classic for them. So they'd seen that logo psychologically now, and now you're seven films in. That was amazing to me to see the kids, and, and again, we did this in multiple cities and we started seeing the same reaction in different cities. Like kids saw new line cinema, they said, oh, this is content. Almost like Sprite, you're speaking to me. You know, it's like immediately just through the logo, they're like, okay, you're, you got my attention. LT: Wow. So they leaned in immediately, is what you're saying? Ivan Juzang: Much more open. Expectations. You know, like, oh good, this, there's an opportunity for something I'm gonna like here that's gonna speak to my worldview. LT: That is a great story, Dee, I love hearing that. And what, what's interesting to me, like Ivan said, that brand wasn't just for urban youth. That brand actually had films outside of, as you said it, the, the African American diaspora. Like, you know, but that's what they knew. That's right. And so, and, and I think there's a lot of learning brand nerds from that, lot of learning that if you do something right, um, and you do it well with a given audience, even you, you can, um, actually as long as you're emotionally connecting with that audience, it, you know, that's all that counts DC: A little inside baseball here on the movie industry. I know it's changed since I worked in it formally, but a lot remains the same. First the trailer still one of the, uh, important tools in the movie business and a little known secret that people as consumers of movies figure out later. Oftentimes the, oftentimes the trailer has nothing to do with the movie. Yeah, yeah. The trailer is designed to get your behind in the seat. It may not have to do with the movie. So the cuts No, go ahead, Ivan. Go ahead. What were you gonna say? Go ahead. That's Ivan Juzang: one of the reasons why I had to start shifting away from the movie. It is like I'm saying, I'm DC: like, oh, no, I, this is bad. Yeah. So this happens with, with trailers, uh, brand nerds. Number two, Ivan mentioned the first weekend is the most important thing in the movie business, and it was then, and in, in large part, this is theatrical release is it is now. The reason why is that 98% of movies. Their total box office lifetime will make 2.3 to 2.6 multiple of the first weekend's box office. LT: Mm-hmm. DC: This is just what you're gonna make. This is why they're trying to drive the, the first week's, uh, box, box office. LT: That's the formula, right D? DC: That's it. That is the formula. And then finally striking to me about this new line cinema example. Most people don't know what studio is releasing a movie and they don't fucking care. Right. So the fact that this New Line Cinema thing, right? And people go, oh, I know this is for me, reminds me of a quote from Ivan. I've stole, I've stolen many quotes from you, Ivan. And that is sometimes the messenger is more important than the message. LT: Yeah, DC: yeah, yeah. LT: Yep. Ivan Juzang: Or as important, right? DC: Oh, what's that now? Ivan Juzang: I said or as important? DC: Or as important? Yes. Or as. Or as important. You're correct. As important. Thanks. Thanks for that. Um, clarification, Larry. Next question, brother. LT: All right, Ivan. So who has had or is having the most influence on your career? Ivan Juzang: Yeah. Um, I would have to say you guys, I just, it's the, the family that I come from, you know, so, yeah. DC: You gotta tell us more about that, Ivan. Ivan Juzang: Why? Well, you know, you know, you, you look at your family as you get older and you just realize, you know, who was, who were those major influencers and mm-hmm. You know, for me, with my mother, she was, she was an amazing person. DC: Yeah. Yeah. Ivan Juzang: But basically her skillset was, you know. Academically it was math, but you know, it was just the way people look at the world when they come from that perspective, it's always, you know, some people criticize it, 'cause it, there's an efficiency to it, but at the same time you're, you're trying to figure out how to frame something to problem solve it. And I, you know, I'm always just appreciative that that's, that's what she gave me, LT: Ivan. I'm so glad you shared that. Um, and truth be told, Ivan was, Ivan said, is, if I bring up my family, this could, this could take me, take me to a, a motion. And so, yeah, sorry about that. This is a safe space for you. So I appreciate, thank you for Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Um, and you know, your mom's looking down, smiling on you because what you've done with MEE and including your family with me, like, you know, when, uh, um, we, we work very closely with, uh, with William. Uh, I, Liam. That's right. Shout out to Will and, and others. And, and, um, and so your mom's smiling on this because all that you've done, um, you know, is uh, is pretty special, is pretty special. So that's carried forth, uh, and will carry forth for a long time. Ivan Juzang: I'll tell you just a quick funny story. Um, when I, when I, uh, went to South Africa the first time and Darryl's gone to South Africa with me, the fir after the first time, she was like, oh, I forgot to tell you. I'm going with you the next time. And did Nice. LT: That's awesome. Yeah. That you got to share that. Yeah. Um, Dee, anything to, and any, I know you have some thoughts here. DC: I do Brand Nerds At the risk of Ivan becoming more emotional, I've got to say a bit more about his family because I know some of them. LT: Yep. DC: I've never met Ivan's mother or father, but I know them because I know him and some of his siblings. Ivan grew up in a meager household in terms of finances, but in a wealthy household in terms of values. Ivan Juzang: Oh, yeah. DC: And their parents preached discipline, personal accountability, education, and as a result, Ivan and his siblings are highly accomplished in a variety of different domains, in a variety of different domains. And they look out for one another. They really look out for one another. And I aspire to have that kind of impact on my family. I, I, I really do. And I just commend your, your family for not what you all have necessarily done, but for who you all are in terms of your character. You are your high character family, Ivan. Ivan Juzang: Thank you. I appreciate that, man. DC: Yeah, you're welcome. Welcome. LT: All right, D, you wanna move to the next question? I do. DC: Ivan, with all this Carnegie Mellon Warden Business School, 30, uh, 30 plus years of entrepreneurship and all the successes, this next question has nothing to do with any of that. This next question has to do with your emphasis on your, as in your mistake, your, your thinking, your biggest f up in your career. And importantly what you learned from said mistake F up. Ivan Juzang: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, whew, it's a, you know, obviously macro and micro le levels a number of ways, but I tell you, you know, it's, I, I think the biggest thing I, I probably effed up on, you know, in retrospect is when I made the shift to just doing public health, mental health, you know, public sector work, which ultimately, I mean, I'm, I'm extremely happy you're seeing it now. You, you're, you're now working in a different kind of economic system that's not as well financed as the private sector side. So, you know, it's kind of, you know, it's, it's like you, you don't know what you really could have done with much more resources. Mm-hmm. It's really what, that's probably the, the, the biggest thing. I mean, I think we were able to have significant impact, but you know, particularly around public health issues like HIV and youth violence, I mean, we really were able to basically evaluate it and show that it worked, but then you aren't able to take it to scale. You see what I'm saying? Where in the private sector, you're always taking it to scale 'cause you're trying to move the numbers, you have to move, you know, you're making those, those kind of, and it's just sad to see that we don't do the same thing. I mean, I think if you go to Europe, if you go to other places, they're much more understanding about how to use communications marketing, you know, they call it social marketing. To try to have an impact on scale. And I think in America, I look back and just say, I probably should have kept some, I should have spent more time identifying within the private sector who shared my value system a little bit more in alignment. It may not have been a perfect match, but then to say, okay, let me still work with X, Y, Z because there's a, there's an upside there. You know what I mean? To be able to try to go to scale. I mean, seriously. I mean, I think if, you know, we look at, we're doing work in the opioid epidemic. I mean, you look at all of these things that are in the media, there's very clear science, you guys on what works. That's the part. And, and I'm talking about communications and marketing and, and the skills that we have. They have the science, but they won't go to scale on it. So then you start saying, okay, you're not in, you're not really intending to try to fix these problems. And that's one thing I didn't know. 30 years ago, that was, you know, the, the real still levels of ti systemic racism that are still built into the system. Mm-hmm. DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. LT: Wow. D, you have a response? DC: I, I don't, Larry, please. LT: Yeah, I do. So Ivan, I think what you're saying is that if you knew then what you know now, you would've tried to figure out a way to bring on some type of, uh, alignment partners. DC: Yeah. LT: That could have taken you A to Z, where now you can't go at A to Z, you're now you're going to A to, you know, to G and you just quite, you can't finish the job. And um, and that's deep. That's really deep and, and one that, um, that gets me to thinking and you know, honestly, the question back to you. It's not too late. Why, why can't, and, and I, and I'll, I'll even say we, why can't, you know, because we work with you closely, why can't we figure out a way to maybe bring some partners like that? Mm-hmm. Especially now given the public situation and the federal crisis that that's in place. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. No, I mean, you know, I had have to be honest at my age, you don't always think about that. But, you know, I, I still have, I still have some, you know, some runway to go, so I'm gonna think about that. I think, you know, we will talk about later what, what we're doing collectively. You guys also could fit into that realm for me in the next page because, you know, if you think about it, it's, it's, it's still everything I've done around health, it's wellness, it's economic, you know, empowerment. It's, it's those things that's now how to go to, you know, figure out how to make, maybe, like you said, to identify a partner that can help us go to scale. LT: Right? Yeah. Interesting. Ready for the next question? Ivan Juzang: Yeah. LT: All right, Ivan. So this is, uh, it's funny, you know, your IBM background too. This is the, uh, the bytes part of, uh, of the program here. So regarding technology and marketing, can you tell us where you think and marketers or market researchers should lean in or best leverage tech or areas that you think they should be leery or simply avoid? Ivan Juzang: You know, I actually thought about, this was the only question that I had to think about when, when I, when I, you know, I was talking to you and Jade just, I was like, wow, I, I've never thought about, it's a great question. And I was sitting there thinking from my perspective as someone who's, you know, I mean, I was doing FORTRAN and UNIX programming, you know, in my teens, right? And then, uh, worked for, as it went to Fortran, DC: Fortran, Unix. That's good. That's good. Ivan Juzang: I, I literally was, I mean, I knew how to use those. Uh, but when I was thinking about, and then I also worked for Oracle, I mean, so I've seen the impact, you know, and understand the impact of technology. Here's, here's what I wanna say. You guys thinking about, this is the biggest thing I think I really learned in, in using technology in marketing and, and what we do is, and, and Darryl's hearing me talk about this, is we don't realize that technology without humanology just isn't gonna get you there. And, and I think mm-hmm. There, and I'm not being critical. You guys, I, I know there's a focus on bytes and technology. What I've learned in the work that I do is that technology, you have to talk about it. 'cause it's, it's gonna get you scale, it's gonna get you reach. I mean, you have to be in those channels. But what I'm seeing in terms of conversion, particularly around behavioral health, switching behaviors, converting behaviors, or at least making better informed choices. It's the Humanology. And what I'm saying is that Humanology in a sense is a technology. It's just how you're gonna approach your audience in terms of using technology. Like we use technology to drive in our projects, drive folks to events, to in the community, in their, in their specific neighborhood. When we're there, then we connect with them using technology. We have 'em follow us. We keep in touch the, so you use 'em both. But I think there's, you know, what we've learned is for low income communities of color who, who are really experiencing true disparities in America. I mean, there literally is a group that is experiencing social, educational, health disparities at levels. People really don't understand. I mean, we kind of hear stuff in the news, but it's, it's called in, in public health, the social determinants of health. You guys, what we're seeing is people are, you know, people are dying a number of ways. Uh, and it's how they're coping with these environments that they live in. So what, what, all I'm saying is that you, you're not gonna just be able to do that with technology. You have to, you know, you have to figure out how to couple that with Humanology. That's, that's what I would tell folks is all and, and technology changes, right? That's one thing I have. There's switching costs, there's opportunity. So you do all that there. Technology's always gonna evolve. I mean, we're in this AI phase, it's how you're gonna, one of the things I also say is how you're gonna use the tech. That's the real technology, your technology in your head on how you're gonna use the technology. 'cause it's just automating, right? It's automating a process. Some procedures, it's helping you be more efficient. It may be helping you cut costs, but it's still automating something, right? And so how do you, how do you inform that? You know what I mean? That's what, that's what I'm interested in, is how do you inform that? And that's really you, how you're. But I, again, I, I, I just find in our work, it's the humanology that really gets us the impact. And so I don't want people to lose sight of that. LT: This is deep. I'm so glad you brought it up. I love the term humanology. Um, also when you think of Humanology, I think of so many, I think of culturally, um, our society. And it's not just in the us. This is global, where you're, you can be walking down the street in Barcelona, like I was fortunate enough to do a few weeks ago, and everybody has, and I'm looking at my phone, like everybody is looking at their, at their phone, you know, and they're not taking the world in. And, and, um, that's just the way it is everywhere. And I don't know what to do about it, but I do know that there's a way that we need to balance the technology with, as Ivan put it, the humanology. Um, that's not taking place right now. And it's a global, it's a, I'll say it's a global crisis because I think people just aren't connecting with folks in the way that, uh, is going to benefit both people individually and the, and the culture as a whole. And certainly that that impacts, I think as you alluded to, Ivan, people of color who are on, on the lowest income strata, um, that adversely incomes impacts them in a huge way because all those tho those situations adversely impact them because in the mo and there's no safety net there, Ivan Juzang: Right? There's, that's exactly, there's no, the calvary isn't coming. And so, um, right, and, and the last thing is just, just, you know, also just from a, a true marketing, even on the com private SEC sector, commercial side. Humanology. You gotta remember, we, in our business, it's behavior change. We're trying to inform behavior in, in private sector, you're trying to either sell more or you're trying to get folks to switch brands. What I always say is, behavior change happens in a social context. That's the communications of Humanology. You know, that's, and so when you, when you take advantage of that, you're really gonna get the conversion. We say behavior change, but I'm not gonna go from my brand to another brand. I'm not gonna go from one product to another unless, you know, you know, there's something there in, and all I'm just saying is that conversation happens much better. That's, you know, 'cause communications for our communities is, is in a social context. You have to be able to dialogue and so you have an interpersonal component that kind of just takes you over the edge in terms of the conversion. LT: That, I love that. DC: That's deep. Ivan, I'm really glad you brought up this notion of humanology. You and I have talked about this several times. I hadn't heard the word in a while. Interesting to me. Your career, you started as a engineer, you know, technically formally trained engineer, mechanical engineer, and undergrad. Um, very much in the STEM space. You then go into finance at business school and while not, uh, while not technically right in stem, it is the m math, there's a lot of numbers. Ivan Juzang: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. DC: In, uh, in, in, in finance. And then you, you then, after warden start this company that is dedicated to favorable, more favorable health outcomes for a disparaged part of the community. Disparaged. But important, you have both of these things in your background that's similar to technology and humanology. LT: Yeah. DC: Both. And. Ivan Juzang: I never thought about that. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I never thought about that. Yeah. DC: Both, both, both. And, and I, I believe in part because of the experience you have, you, you are the one who was equipped, uh, equipped to do that. And then finally, I'll say this, Larry and I talk often about the best marketing is a combination and a balance of art and science. Mm-hmm. Not one or the other. Ivan Juzang: Right. DC: Uh, analytics on the, on the math, uh, excuse me. Analytics on the science side, the left brain and creativity and expressing of that on the, uh, right side of, of the brain. That's, that's the art. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: And the best businesses. The best brand. And dare I say, the best people have an ability to do both. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: Yeah. LT: Yeah. And de before we go to the next question, I just wanna make this, I'm connecting dots here. This is usually DC's place, Ivan. So D, I I, I, I'm sorry if I'm usurping your area here, but you're good bro. I think when Ivan said that his mom, which he had told me was an educator, but was a math teacher, and then Ivan grows up on the left side of the brain, right. With both, uh, you know, and the engineering as well as the finance side. But look how he's then, you know, taken all of that on the, on the left side of the brain and really, so much of what you do now, Ivan is really right side, uh, of the brain, you know, and, and so it's really interesting and, and, uh, and the human that you've described, your mom being, it flows very nicely with what she's about. What, by the way, you have to, I know your mom's passport. What's your mom's name? Ivan Juzang: Mary. Mary Jackson, Juzang. LT: Thank you. DC: Well said, Larry, you, you, you are stealing my thunder, but that's okay. That's a good way to steal it. Uh, Larry, uh, can I go to the next question? LT: Please do. DC: Ivan, what are you most proud of? Ivan Juzang: Well, you know, I'm, I'm, I guess, you know, the impact we've had. I mean, we, we, we really measure what we've done in the public health space. So, I mean, and I'm putting it in commercial terms. I mean, back in the, uh, late 1990s, early two thousands, I mean, if, if you think about it, I don't know if you remember this DC but if you moved a hundred thousand VHS or DVDs, you know, uh, for a film that was pretty good. We, we did 150,000 for some HIV educational videos. And because we made them entertaining and, and, and so that was big for us. We've done tons of work in youth violence. I mean, and the only reason why I wanna mention that is because. There's just a lot of miss and misinformation about, you know, black youth violence, um, you know, that that's portrayed in the media. We've been working space for 30 years, you guys, and there's a few things I always tell people that we don't understand. The media has this believing that 85% of those kids are engaging in crime and violence. If you go into the lowest income community in the country, it's only 15% of the kids and they know who they are. But the media has us basically criminalizing all of the rest of these kids and they're just going from A to B like we would if we were in those communities. People need to understand that these kids are good kids. It's about 15%. The deal is that they know them, uh, who they are and, and so just the fact that we perpetrate that isn't good. Here's the second part of the youth violence stuff that's really blown me away, and this is some of the work Darryl me and you did back with boys and men of color. Listen, you guys, about 15 of the, again, of the lowest income kids, no matter, uh uh, Black, white, or Latino, um, male or female, 15% of them are naturally thriving. And that's a, that's a term that I learned from one of my mentors, uh, Dr. Joseph White, who basically said, if you have certain kinds of resiliency skills, um, you're not only gonna, you know, survive through traumatic environments that you're forced to live in, you're, it is not gonna impact you. You're actually gonna thrive. And we've been able to identify in our work, what are those five thro, what, what, what we call thriving coping skills. I mean, we've been able to map, but again, we're not giving kids this information. So there's this whole notion about who these kids are. We're making 'em. It's, it's only 15%, not the 85% the media portrays. And ironically, the, the, there's 15% that are thriving. What if we could get it to 35% to 55%? Right? What if go to scale and really help these kids understand what they have to do to thrive in an environment that, that has failure built in? And so, you know, I, I think the work that we've done there to identify that now how to go to scale. Um, but again, some of my mentors, you know, they literally died saying, you know, we have the science. Why aren't we using the science to, you know, to resolve these problems? DC: Hmm. LT: C can I ask, what are those, what are those five thriving skills? That's, is very, uh, curious about that? Ivan Juzang: Well, real, real quick, the first one and the most important one is being connected to a non-judgmental adult. Wow. Not your parents. It's called social connectedness. There's clear science on this. Just, just having Healthy Village will make a difference. We've eroded the village now in low income communities, and what I always say is, you know, there's no community that thrives where we don't support women to the point where there's multiple people helping her parent. That's called Village. So if you take the village away, yeah. Try to raise the kid by yourself. I, I had one child, I wouldn't have been able to, I mean, I had Village, I had resources. I was able to pay for good childcare, education, da, da da, da. If you don't have access to this stuff, you, you need support. We're able to buy Village. The point is, is kids who were thriving somehow got connected. To someone that was non we, you know, they call 'em old heads, right? But the notion that they got, so social connectedness, once you get that, it's called intergenerational cultural transmission. Once you get that connection, then you get these four other skills. One is how to, how to, how to regulate your emotions. If someone insults you and you have to, and you violently deal with that, that means you're not developing your brain. So social emotional regulation, what to do in a, we call it what to do in a moment of crisis. You gotta give kids what's 'cause it's, it's not, if it's gonna happen, it's when it's gonna happen. Give them the skills to then be able to cope differently with trauma. Then after that it's, it's in and DC and I have talked about, it's, it's mind, body, soul. It's just practicing some kind of wellness. It's having some, whether it's. And this is hip hop. I mean, it could be writing, journaling could be a lot of things, but have, you know, exercising. But having that release. And then here are the last two that are very particular to what I call urban trauma. The, the, the experiences that low income black kids have. We saw the last two skills are, guess what, you guys having a plan. What we learned in our national research is the lowest income kids that live in the lowest income communities, that have the highest violence actually know, uh, and have a plan for their lives. Just having a plan helps you deal with trauma differently. 'cause you just shift to plan B, right? So you'd say, well, what does having a plan have to do with thriving? It's, it's significant. And then the fourth one is navigating systemic racism. We learned that the 15% of the kids. Could steal themselves, brace themselves for the ongoing racism that they were about to experience, whether it was in their school, whether it was trying to get a job in, in a number of settings. Those kids knew how to navigate that. It's, it's actually fascinating to see the amazement of these kids. LT: That's amazing stuff. That's amazing stuff the way you, the way you've also communicated that to us here. Thank you for doing that. D, you have thoughts? I know you do. DC: It was an honor to work on the BMOC work, and that is, uh, one of the most significant things that I've been associated with and working with Ivan and, and his team and then others as, uh, as well, um, sitting in focus groups. Ivan was conducting them. He was, uh, moderating and I think also William did some moderation as well, if I'm not mistaken. Ivan listening to these young men and women talk about the, the, the, the, those that were in this 15% of the thrivers, what they had to overcome to thrive daily, and the strategies Ivan talked about making a plan, the strategies that they learned in order to thrive was mind boggling. Ivan Juzang: Yeah. DC: Like j just some, I remember some of the stories of how they would get to and from school, like that required strategic planning. Ivan Juzang: Right. DC: So that they could safely get to and from school and how they would handle attempts to be recruited into something nefarious by the 15% who are not doing well. And oftentimes, uh, uh, Larry and Brand Nerds. These kids figured this out on their own. LT: Oh, yeah. Ivan Juzang: Organically thriving DC: Organically. LT: Well, D you had to, you had to do it on your own too. You had to deal with that very subject. DC: I didn't realize that that was happening to me. Yes. Uh, Larry, uh, in fact, I thought, because it's just how I grew up. I just thought it was how I grew up. I didn't realize that I was a part of this 15% that Dr. White, uh, talked about. I had no clue. And hearing these young men and women dis like dissected, it was like a, like an epiphany for me. Like, oh wow. Like you, you kind of do have to have these, these five things. If you got to for a shot to make it out for a shot, you gotta have all five of them, but you gotta have a couple for a shot to get out. So this, this is, this is what was just, uh. It. Yeah, it was very moving. Uh, Ivan. So thanks for bringing that up. Ivan Juzang: But can I, can I just, just make one quick comment? DC I I, I've analyzed your, you know, your development, particularly in adolescence, and I remember you, you told me the story about you learning how to play the drums, and you got on the, you, you know, you were intentionally getting on the band, having a plan to get on the band. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. DC: Yep. Ivan Juzang: And then to then turn that into a scholarship, right? LT: Yep. Ivan Juzang: Then go to A-H-B-C-U and give it the same standards that you would give Harvard, right? Yeah. And then use that. And what I always tell people, I, I tell my son Jackson, and he's, by the way, personally, the most, the most I'm proud of. He's a human being. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So. But I tell you, man, I think about that d that that, that, that's always been amazing. And what I always tell Jackson is not only did Darryl do all that, he had, he got, obviously you got connected to a non-judgmental adult. You had to I did. You, there's no way that whole thing wouldn't have started. You got connected, right? You started learning how to regulate your emotions. You do like, okay, I can't act crazy up in here 'cause dude ain't having that. LT: No, that's right. Yep. That's right. Ivan Juzang: And then what was beautiful is then you learn the drums. That's your wellness, that's the practicing wellness part. I mean the, the fact that you and I tell people this DC's not music. He's drums. I mean the, the reality is right. That's what is, is really your brand is that you're able to bring the rhythm, the beat, the drum, whatever. Yeah. That li and that in Africa, that's the lifeline. So you actually got. Connected to an probably the most important instrument in Africa. You got connected to that. So that's your practicing wellness then having a plan. I've, I, I've never seen, I've never seen one person with more, as many plans as I have. You've got plans too, right? So, and then I know you navigate assistance because I always love your stories about you navigating Coca-Cola. I mean, I'm like, oh yeah, this dude, this dude threw the, threw the mic down at Coke. I love that. So yeah, that's, it really does apply to you. I never thought of it that way, but, but yes, it does. LT: I'm so glad you took it through the prism of DC. That was awesome, Ivan. DC: Thanks Ivan. Thank you. Thanks man. It means a lot. And thank you, Larry, for recognizing the connection. LT: Oh yeah. Uh, are we ready to move? Move to, uh, power. Next subject here, next section. All right. What's popping D? What's popping, Ivan? DC: What's popping? LT: Ivan, this is our chance to shout out. Shout down, or simply there's something happening in around marketing today we think is good fodder for discussion. Oh, and I know you got a good one. Can't wait for this. Ivan, please kick us off. Ivan Juzang: Well, you know, I, what's, what is popping for me as, as someone that's in the middle of a, of launching a brand is MoyaMPepho. So basically, I've been going to Africa since 1993. I was there before Mandela was even elected. I was there, you know, doing his inauguration. Wow. And, um, one of the things I, as I keep kept going to Africa doing work there is LT: How many times have you been, uh, Ivan? Ivan Juzang: Ah, I don't even know, man. It's, it's a lot. I mean, it's a lot, but, but ironically same kind of, you know, public private sector. So I was there working for UNICEF and U-S-A-I-D. Those are the American public. American international public health arms, and then of course I'm working with DC and Sprite, right? So that was nice to, to do that. But, um, but MoyaMPepho, you guys is literally something I learned about over really, even though I've been going to 30 years. I really just learned about it in the last 10 years. And I was, because I was going to this area called the Eastern Cape, and I'm telling you this, the Easter is pristine. I mean, this is like going back, this is going to an era that ecologically, the ecosystem is intact. I mean, and so anything that comes out of this biodiversity is amazing. Anyway, culturally though, there's this whole group of traditional healers and folks who rely on traditional medicine. MPepho being the first one, that the traditional healers learned about that. Then they say by learning about eppo, they then learned about other, uh, medicinal herbs. And so. And Peppo is just this amazing sage, incense. You can use it a number of ways. We're, we're, we're, we're launching it just as a incense for now, but there will be other variations, hopefully, like teases and other things down the line. But man, this, this is just an amazing, to me, opportunity to combine a wellness, a real wellness product that really works, that has all of these true medicinal benefits with the fact that you're harvesting it from this area, South Africa, the Eastern Cape, where you're actually working with the community, working with the ecosystem, and you're, you know, you're, you're actually hiring black women to harvest this in a way that keeps it safe and keeps it fresh. And so you're actually doing, uh, you're actually impacting both the environment and the, and the economy. And then the key thing I really like about you guys is it acknowledges African science. You know, we've been talking about science and technology. I mean, yeah. This, you know, people, you know, we live in a world that if it's not deemed, you know, certain this way and this way by European institutions, it's not valid. This, this stuff is, this has been used for thousands of years and you know, I'm not going to discount, you know, African science, African wellness, traditional African healers. This stuff has worked. The data's there, uh, the science is there. Um, and so we're just excited to be in that. And then hopefully this will be the first one. Hopefully MoyaMPepho. There's, there's so many amazing medicinal herbs over there. I think as the world goes and shifts more towards wellness, especially dealing with the stress and trauma we're gonna be faced with, it's something that, you know, in here in America, we can add to our regimen. And so I'm excited about it. I'm also been excited working with you guys on it as well. LT: I'm so glad you brought it up. This has been a labor of true love, uh, for us working with, with you and the team on MoyaMPepho and brand nerds. It is such a cool product. Um, and we're really excited about launching this, this, it's, it's something that, as Ivan alluded to, is, um, is that we're really a, a sage incense. And how would you like to sleep better? If, if that means something to you, that's something that, uh, that you really need to as, uh, check into MoyaMPepho as we do it? Um, we like to say that it is, you know, we're, one of the things we're talking about is Mother Africa's hidden tranquil treasure that, um, that super producer Hailey was a big part of building, and we're so excited about this launch because, uh, as I Ivan alluded to, it's something that could help anyone, um, really, uh, in their wellness space. Um, uh, you know, as they, as you try to. Uh, become one of more mind, body, and soul. Um, and also just the, the, the functional benefits of if you're not sleeping well, this can really help you. So we're really thrilled about, uh, about getting involved in, uh, in this from the beginning. We've been working on this for a couple years now, and it's coming to fruition. So really excited about it. DC: Larry and Ivan, it's sometimes hard to envision something like a plant called, um, MPepho and through the brand MoyaMPepho becoming a global phenomena. 'cause we hear it and we go, well, we, we don't, you know, we, we never heard of MPepho We, we don't know. We don't know what Moya and Pepo is. And I bring that back to something as an analog that people do know. And that's a coffee bean. So c coffee beans were discovered in, I think 800 ad. MPepho as a plant is older than that. LT: Mm-hmm. Yeah. DC: When coffee beans were discovered, I guarantee you there was no one thinking, you know, a Starbucks brand would be a very good way to bring this thing to life. There's no one thinking that they're, they're, they're just, they just have this commodity called beans, and now these coffee beans have become a part of a global ritual where people start their day around the world saying to themselves, I'm just not right until I have my first cup of coffee. Mm-hmm. Well, what we have an opportunity to do, and this is part of the reason why we're so excited, Larry's alluded to it, I haven't spoken to it as well, is to take this thousands of year old. South African derived indigenous healing plant and convey that through a brand that just may become a nighttime ritual, helping you go to sleep. Rarely do you have opportunities like that in business and in life. And we have that opportunity and you'll be seeing more of that coming from us. So, I'm, I'm, I'm, um, I'm Bulant. Yeah. Great word. That's a Scarsdale word. D, you know, DC: Scarsdale. This, this is near where Larry went to school. I say Ardsley, but he wants to go to a, a, another area called Scarsdale in the, in the New York northeast area. LT: That's a highfalutin word, Ivan. But he's a, he's adept at. Hm. Ivan Juzang: That's, Hey, so we're, and so, so anyway, I'm really excited to be working with you guys on a and I, I, I, last thing on, on MoyaMPepho, I, I do have to say I just love the way the brand looks and the, the logo. Logo and the, and I mean, it's just, it's, it's, you know, I have to say it's just actually nice to look at, you know what I mean? It's, it's nice to look at. Yeah. I mean, I enjoy looking at it, you know what I mean? So to me, hopefully one day it'll be our New Line Cinema. LT: That's right, that's right. DC: From, from from your, from your lips to God's ears. LT: Yes, exactly. No, I'm, and, and, and Brand Nerds be on the lookout. We're gonna tell you more about that as we, uh. As we get, uh, further into this launch. Um, so be on the lookout for that man, Ivan, you know what happens with, uh, these wonderful shows? They all of a sudden you start and they're over. Um, this conversation's been amazing. We knew, knew it would be believe. Yeah, we, we knew it would be. So this is, uh, the end here where we posit some learnings. Um, I've learned a ton, no surprise. Um, and I'm gonna share mine and DC will then hit his. And, uh, and if you have anything to share that you've learned from this wonderful conversation, we'll give you that opportunity before we close. So let me hit mine. Um, Brand Nerds. We've discussed this numerous times on this podcast to not be led by money. Like I, like Ivan has done. Follow your soul and do the right thing. And he's living his life in accordance with that. It's wonderful number. That's number one. Number two, New Line Cinema. Brand Nerds in a marketing situation, what can you do to emotionally connect your brand where your target audience sees the logo and they lean in, they want more. That's number two. Number three, ooh, pithy. Love this. Ivan must have humanology with technology, but led with humanology. That's number three. Number four, this is a quote from Ivan. Behavior Change happens in a social context. So Brand Nerds, as you're thinking about what you do with your brand and the marketing strategies and tactics that go along with that, how does that interweave with the social context that your target audience is immersed in? And the last one, Ivan, and this is something that needs to be shouted from the root rooftops. Brand Nerds, I'm gonna repeat this. 85% of youth in low income areas are not involved in anything nefarious and are just doing all they can to survive and hopefully thrive. That needs to be understood and known by everyone. Those are my great learnings from this great conversation. Wow, Larry. Excellent. DC: Wow, Larry, that's, that's, that's really good, Larry. All right, Ivan. This is the part of the program. Larry's already tipped, tipped my hand a bit. LT: Sorry. DC: That's, that's all right. You did good, brother. Ivan Juzang: Really, you guys are funny. DC: When I attempt Ivan to share back with our guest what I believe the person before Larry and I, the human is offering the world that. No other in the 8 billion people who are on this planet can give and or not give it in the way that you can. And I've said this on many podcasts for friends of mine, and you are one of my closest friends, Ivan. It's challenging for me to do it because I know you, I know you. And because of that, I, uh, I, I will have these things that will go through my mind and I will go, well, I already know that. I already know that. What's something maybe I didn't know about my brother or my sister? So here is my attempt to do that with you. Now in the five questions, when we, uh, when we ask you about your biggest f up, you talked about the pivot in your business from the private sector to the public sector. Now you were doing both public and private together at, at, at, at that point, and then you decided you're gonna let the private sector go. You have said of your, about your own firm that you use MEE Productions, MEE, private sector approaches to solve public sector problems. That's a quote from you, Ivan. So you have here this balance of private and public on the question where we ask about, uh, technology. That's when you brought up technology and humanology where you discussed the the need to have both. You can't just have the bits and the bites. You also have to have, I think you mentioned it, the social context. You have to consider the social context, where the technology happens and how it happens, and what's said about the technology in the social context, the humanology to have it stick. So again, you have this technology, humanology, once again, balance. When we asked who's had the most influence on your career, you had an emotional moment where you talked about your mother, and this is where Larry stole my thunder. And you talked about your mother being a mathematician, an educator or mathematician. Here we have your mother, uh, what's her name again, Ivan? Ivan Juzang: Mary. Mary Jackson. Mary Juzang. DC: Mary. Mary Jackson. I did not realize that. Jackson, your son. Had your mother's middle name. I didn't know that. Okay. I didn't know that until now. Ivan Juzang: Her maiden name. DC: Her maiden name. Okay. Ivan Juzang: And that was the reason why I named him that. DC: Oh, nice, nice. LT: Very cool. DC: Mary Jackson, she is this mathematician. So this is the analytical side of the brain, the left side, and her son, who was technically trained on the left side of the brain, mechanical engineer and finance major MBA from Wharton has now found himself deeply ensconced in the world of Humanology. So here we have both Mary and Ivan balanced together in what's happened in your career and that has impacted, I would dare say, millions of people. At this point across the globe, which brings me to this about you, there is the Greek goddess of justice. She's called Themis, T-H-E-M-I-S. This is the statue of the woman that has the scales, a sword, and then blindfolded. The scales represent balance of fairness. The sword represents truth and justice and authority. The blindfold represents impartiality and the woman herself, though un uh, though, um, so unnamed in, in modern times, but we all know this is a Greek goddess, Themis I think that's how you pronounce her name, is this. Integrity and human consciousness. That's about balance. That's about balance, which I think makes you Ivan the Themis of the business and brand building modern world. I think that's what you do. LT: Deep stuff, Ivan. Ivan Juzang: I appreciate it. You guys good hanging out with y'all? Yeah. LT: Yeah. Before we sign off, Ivan, anything you wanna share with the Brand Nerds about this wonderful conversation we've had? I. Ivan Juzang: Know, I, I, I, I just give one final tip to consider. It's funny, I, Daryl, you're, you, you know, you're, you. I, for, I forgot that I actually said, but you repeated, which is how, what we learned from the private sector that we brought back to the public sector. Yeah. LT: Mm-hmm. Ivan Juzang: And just to actually elaborate on that, what it was, is we learned from working with you, and we also really learned from working on the movies back to the trailer. DC: Mm. Ivan Juzang: Over time, because we worked on about, I mean, 50 to 70 of these films, man, what we really, I, I mean the trailer part of them. Mm-hmm. Right. It's. What we ultimately learned as we kept crafting trailers is we, we ultimately selected, 'cause we showed the whole movie. We'd first show the whole movie. The movie would drive the trailer, as you know, so you're right DC remember what is in the movie, if it, if it's a bad movie, you know what's in it that you're gonna put in the trailer knowing that the movie's a bad movie. I'm just using that as an extreme example. I'm gonna give you the positive side, right? LT: Yep. Ivan Juzang: What we learned is what were the scenes that the kids were gonna share with their peer group after they left the movie? Mm-hmm. It was the shareable scenes. And so ultimately what we learned in the, we took that to the private public sector, is that when we're developing our campaigns, what's shareable, and that's word, that's true word of mouth. You're not gonna share a weak scene. Right. You're not gonna share a weak joke, you're not gonna share a weak song. You know, you're what, what's gonna give you status within your peer group because you're sharing it. It was amazing. And that's what we took to the public sector to say, we gotta create word of mouth. It's not, 'cause the budgets are smaller. So if you don't, if you don't maximize your budget to, to get word of mouth, what's shareable? And I tell you that's, I, I still use that to this day in all of our projects. What's shareable, what speaks, what's shareable? You know, what's the story that, within the story that they're willing to share with their peers once they leave the movie theater. LT: Mm-hmm. You know what's cool about that? That's even pre-social media. Ivan Juzang: Oh yeah. LT: So think about now with social media, there's, you, you now have the technology. Right. And, and the tools to even, uh, exponentially take that to another level. Yep. Yeah. That's awesome. Ivan Juzang: Hanging up with you guys, man. I, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward. Thanks Larry, for bringing up the pivot. You're not too late to pivot. So looking forward to doing that with you guys, with, with Moya, uh, and other projects. LT: Yes. A, that's a good mic drop to end this brand nerds. Thanks so much for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes, the executive producers of Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro. DC: The Podfather LT: And if, if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share for those on Apple Podcasts if you are so inclined. We love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and we look forward to next time we, we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.