Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Tiger King Juror: " Jury cried when Joe Exotic convicted."

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Tiger King Juror: " Jury cried when Joe Exotic convicted." · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. How
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Speaker 1: many of you like me? Have watched the Netflix so
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Speaker 1: called documentary on Joe Exotic, not his real name, the
1:51
Speaker 1: so called Tiger King. But is that just a show?
1:55
Speaker 1: Is that real? Their numbers are skyrocketing, the root for
2:02
Speaker 1: the Tiger King. But what is the truth? What really
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Speaker 1: happened in a court of law? Many of the girars
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Speaker 1: are afraid to speak out, but we managed to track
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Speaker 1: down one girar, Kristen, who will tell you the truth
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Speaker 1: of why Joe Exotic is behind bars and a federal penitentiary.
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Speaker 1: I mean Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, Crime Stories
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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Joining us now is a very special guest, Kristen,
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Speaker 1: who actually sat on the Joe Exotic trial. Kristin, thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. Thank you, Kristen. I don't
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Speaker 1: know if you saw the Netflix special or the Fox
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Speaker 1: Network special on Joe Exotic, but I've got a pretty
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Speaker 1: good idea it was very different than what happened in
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Speaker 1: the courtroom. Would you agree with that? Oh? I absolutely
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Speaker 1: agree with that. And it was a completely different story
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Speaker 1: than what we heard. And you know, it's so crazy
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Speaker 1: to me, as a former prosecutor to hear people actually
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Speaker 1: approach the president asking for a pardon for Joe Exotic.
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Speaker 1: When you guys went through all this evidence, let me
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Speaker 1: just start at the beginning. When you first saw Joe
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Speaker 1: Exotic in that courtroom, how did he appear? Um? Well,
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Speaker 1: he um, he looks much smaller than than he does
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Speaker 1: than he did on the special. He had the mullet
3:48
Speaker 1: and he and he had some jewelry, not much, but
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Speaker 1: um he uh he the suit that he was wearing
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Speaker 1: was way too big for him so kind of swallowed
4:00
Speaker 1: him and made him look even smaller. So yeah, he
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Speaker 1: was not impressive and he looked much older than he
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Speaker 1: did on the DUC series. Let me ask you a
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Speaker 1: question regarding the evidence. We've heard it said over and
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Speaker 1: over and over on TV in the media, there was
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Speaker 1: no evidence that he handed over money to Alan Glover
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Speaker 1: for a hit. Well, I disagree. Alan Glover took the
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Speaker 1: stand and there were so many hours of tape recordings.
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Speaker 1: I mean, tell me what you thought was the strongest
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Speaker 1: evidence requiring the hitman counts. Kristen, I know you guys
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Speaker 1: look at a lot accounts, the lacy counts for wildlife,
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Speaker 1: the endangered species counts, shooting the tigers a lot, But
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Speaker 1: on the hitmen aspects, murder for hire. Do you think
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Speaker 1: Kresten was the strongest advance that convinced you it really happened.
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Speaker 1: That is a real easy question. We did hear a
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Speaker 1: lot of recordings, and we saw a lot of text
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Speaker 1: messages and that kind of thing that had to do
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Speaker 1: with Alan Glover. But then with the undercover FBI agent
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Speaker 1: and oh, I can't think of his name now, but
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Speaker 1: there was a long recording of him meeting Joe, and
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Speaker 1: we could have convicted on both murder for hire accounts
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Speaker 1: based on one sentence that Joe said, which was the
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Speaker 1: first guy that I hired to killer ran away with
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Speaker 1: my three thousand dollars. Now we're going to try this again,
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Speaker 1: and and something to that effect, obviously out word for word,
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Speaker 1: and like how much would you charge me? Or that
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Speaker 1: kind of thing, But one sentence, we could have convicted
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Speaker 1: him on both counts. So this was the recording with
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Speaker 1: the undercover the FED, the undercover agent, right, yes, is
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Speaker 1: it true he had a meeting about murder for high
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Speaker 1: at an Applebee's um. I don't recall that this recording
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Speaker 1: that we heard was actually at the zoo. The first
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Speaker 1: probably ten minutes was just them walking with no no
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Speaker 1: talking at all, and then he met him, I believe
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Speaker 1: in the I think they said it was like an
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Speaker 1: office near the gift shop, and that's where they sat
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Speaker 1: down and talk about it. Now, this is the FED,
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Speaker 1: the undercover agent, right, Yes, yes, you know, Kristen. I've
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Speaker 1: got so many questions for you. But regarding the evidence,
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Speaker 1: when Joe Exotic would be heard talking about murdering Carol Baskin,
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Speaker 1: what was his demeanor? Was he afraid? Was he worried
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Speaker 1: he was going to get caught? Was he cavalier? Was
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Speaker 1: he laughing? What was his demeanor during all those recordings,
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Speaker 1: his demeanor in the courtroom or on the tape? He
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Speaker 1: was laughing. He it was all a big joke to him.
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Speaker 1: I don't I think he really thought that he was
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Speaker 1: going to get away with it. He he sounded angry
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Speaker 1: and of some of them, but mostly he was just laughing.
7:50
Speaker 1: So let me understand, Kristen, was it a big joke
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Speaker 1: or was it for real? Did he really pay to
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Speaker 1: have her killed? It was absolutely real. I mean, there
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Speaker 1: was not a second of discussion in deliberations about whether
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Speaker 1: or not he meant it. We all absolutely believed that
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Speaker 1: he wanted her dead, and so I think the laughing
8:20
Speaker 1: part of it was that he was thinking about how
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Speaker 1: happy he would be when it actually happened. You know,
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Speaker 1: I've listened to a lot of a lot of people
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Speaker 1: higher hit men, believe it or not, and I've never
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Speaker 1: heard one laughing about it that it was just a
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Speaker 1: big joke that this woman was going to be shot dead.
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Speaker 1: So what was Joe Exotic's plan as to how to
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Speaker 1: kill Carol Baskin? What did he want to happen to her? Oh?
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Speaker 1: He hit a few different plans ends. At one point
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Speaker 1: they talked about um about Glover hiding on the off
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Speaker 1: the trail where she would ride her her bike to
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Speaker 1: work and he could just shoot her from there. I
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Speaker 1: think that at one point they it was talked about
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Speaker 1: that he could cut her head off, and I mean
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Speaker 1: it was It was all different scenarios that they would
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Speaker 1: talk about. I really don't think he even cared how
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Speaker 1: it happened. He just wanted it to happen. Kristen, You
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Speaker 1: know when something like that would come out in court,
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Speaker 1: every juror would turn and look at the defendant. Did
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Speaker 1: you ever look over at him when those recordings were
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Speaker 1: being played about putting cutting her head off? Or shooting
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Speaker 1: her off her bike. Um, yeah, he was. He was
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Speaker 1: right in front of me. He was in my direct
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Speaker 1: line of vision. So I watched his reaction a lot
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Speaker 1: to things. Um, and he didn't really react. He sometimes
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Speaker 1: he would lean over and whisper something to one of
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Speaker 1: his attorneys, but it wasn't there wasn't any any major
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Speaker 1: reaction at all. Man. I would hang my head down
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Speaker 1: if a recording was played back where I wanted somebody's
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Speaker 1: head cut off, how somebody murdered. He just sat there
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Speaker 1: like it was nothing. Kristen. Yeah, he he just didn't
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Speaker 1: seem to believe that that was gonna be enough to
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Speaker 1: convict him. And uh and I think, um, how like
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Speaker 1: I said, we didn't really talk about it, but um
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Speaker 1: in deliberations. But I don't think anybody really had any
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Speaker 1: sympathy for him. Wow, why do you say that? Is that?
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Speaker 1: Did y'all talk about that in the jury room? The
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Speaker 1: jury deliberations room, we did. We talked about just a
11:17
Speaker 1: little bit, because out of the three and a half
11:20
Speaker 1: hours that we were in deliberations, only maybe twenty minutes
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Speaker 1: of it talked about the two murder for higher charges.
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Speaker 1: The rest of the time we talked about the animal charges.
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Speaker 1: So we talked about how he would his attorney would
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Speaker 1: ask him a question and he would go way too
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Speaker 1: far with the answers and his attorney would have to
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Speaker 1: stop him. He offered up far more information than what
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Speaker 1: his attorney obviously wanted him to let us know. So
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Speaker 1: we talked about things like that, but nobody, I mean,
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Speaker 1: there were people that felt bad if he would have
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Speaker 1: to go to prison. I wasn't one of those people.
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Speaker 1: But there were jurors that were sad about that, and
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Speaker 1: I just okay, Chris, and whoa wait a minute. They
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Speaker 1: were sad because the guy that shot tigers dead in
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Speaker 1: the cage, he was not being attacked. The tiger was
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Speaker 1: not trying to attack anybody else. He just shot it
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Speaker 1: dead in the cage. And you hire a hit man
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Speaker 1: not once, but twice to kill a lady on our
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Speaker 1: bike or cut off our head. So Gerrards actually felt
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Speaker 1: bad he would have to go to jail. Are you serious.
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Speaker 1: We had a few jurors that were crying when we
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Speaker 1: went back into the courtroom, and I was, like I said,
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Speaker 1: I wasn't one of those people. We had a job
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Speaker 1: to do, and um, and I actually watched his reaction.
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Speaker 1: I some of the other jurors kept their heads down,
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Speaker 1: but um, were they embarrassed? I think they just felt bad. Um,
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Speaker 1: I just didn't. I felt like he deserved it. Crime
13:42
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Was
13:54
Speaker 1: he that likable? Kristen? Was he likable when he took
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Speaker 1: the stay? Tell me how he did on the stay?
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Speaker 1: And maybe he was sympathetic on the stand and some
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Speaker 1: of the garrars felt some kind of connection to him. Well, Um,
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Speaker 1: I didn't, that's for sure. But he Um, he was
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Speaker 1: a fake crier. I was pretty close to him, so
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Speaker 1: I could tell that when he was wiping his face
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Speaker 1: there were no tears. But he did make a grand
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Speaker 1: gesture of it. Um, I love it when people fake crying. Court. Okay,
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Speaker 1: when you say he made a gesture, please tell me
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Speaker 1: what he would do. I have to know this, Christen.
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Speaker 1: He would wipe both of his eyes and flick the
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Speaker 1: tears away and and I mean I think he felt
14:47
Speaker 1: like the we were in the splash zone of his
14:51
Speaker 1: of his tears. He was flicking them so hard, but
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Speaker 1: there was there was no tears. There was. That was
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Speaker 1: all fake. Um. When you flick. He would actually wipe
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Speaker 1: and flick almost off his hand. He actually did it
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Speaker 1: in one of the episodes where he was crying and
15:15
Speaker 1: he um would kind of wipe his eyes real hard
15:20
Speaker 1: and and make this big flicking motion with his hands
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Speaker 1: and you're you're flicking water off your hands. Okay, I
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Speaker 1: got it. He did that in court? He did yeah,
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Speaker 1: And I just I was just dumbfounded. And some of
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Speaker 1: the things he did, Um, oh, please tell me what
15:42
Speaker 1: what dumbfounded you? What else did he do in court? Well? Um,
15:47
Speaker 1: the one that stands out the most is that his
15:50
Speaker 1: attorney was asking him about where he was one day
15:55
Speaker 1: when he got a phone call and what he did
15:57
Speaker 1: when he got that phone call. And I think he
16:01
Speaker 1: said he was in Oklahoma City or Edmund or something,
16:05
Speaker 1: and um, so he headed back to the zoo, but
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Speaker 1: they stopped at a motel on the way and filmed
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Speaker 1: a softcore porn and his attorney was just shaking his
16:15
Speaker 1: head and he said, okay, that's enough and had to
16:22
Speaker 1: just drink that in Kristen hold On. So he's in
16:25
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and he's on the way back and he
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Speaker 1: stopped at a motel to watch a little porn did
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Speaker 1: I get that right? No, to film a softcore Okay?
16:38
Speaker 1: What what? What? Yeah? He just pulled off and filmed
16:46
Speaker 1: some porn. Yes, I don't know that enough. When I
16:50
Speaker 1: thought you said he watched some porn, I didn't know
16:53
Speaker 1: you said he filmed. Okay, all right, okay, since that's
16:58
Speaker 1: not a felony proceed I wonder who's filming the porn with.
17:05
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I am sure that I wasn't
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Speaker 1: the only juror that was afraid that might come into
17:11
Speaker 1: evidence and we'd have to watch it. Okay, but okay,
17:16
Speaker 1: wait a minute, let me let me get my head off.
17:19
Speaker 1: Joe exotic filming porn and that's gonna be hard to do.
17:24
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna move on. So what else did he
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Speaker 1: do in the courtroom? Beside admit without being asked that
17:33
Speaker 1: he was filming porn? What else did he do in court? Um?
17:39
Speaker 1: It was just a lot of trying to elaborate on
17:43
Speaker 1: certain things. When they would ask a question, he would
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Speaker 1: try to sneak in other things and other like he
17:53
Speaker 1: would say if it wasn't for her first dead husband,
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Speaker 1: and then they would object or it was things like that,
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Speaker 1: And of course we had no idea what he was
18:05
Speaker 1: even talking about. But he did try to sneak things in.
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Speaker 1: Looking back on it, I remember a few of those things,
18:16
Speaker 1: but the prosecution stopped him pretty quickly and we never
18:22
Speaker 1: even talked about it. We had didn't even know what
18:25
Speaker 1: it was about. Did you guys in court see any
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Speaker 1: of his show that he filmed or he would talk
18:37
Speaker 1: about one in Carol Baskin's Head in a Jar? Did
18:41
Speaker 1: you see any of that on and I guess on YouTube?
18:44
Speaker 1: Did you get to see any of that? We did?
18:48
Speaker 1: We in the jury box. There was one monitor for
18:55
Speaker 1: every two people, so we got to see all of
18:59
Speaker 1: that right in front of us. And um, when he
19:04
Speaker 1: shot the blow up doll, I think everybody jumped. We
19:07
Speaker 1: didn't see that coming, um, and just you know, the
19:13
Speaker 1: head in the jar and all those kind of things
19:15
Speaker 1: that it was very disturbing to see. Um. But yeah,
19:20
Speaker 1: we saw all of that. We didn't see any of
19:22
Speaker 1: his music videos, but we did see little parts of
19:25
Speaker 1: his his internet show, and oh I have seen them
19:34
Speaker 1: since and once was enough. That was it was enough
19:39
Speaker 1: for me. But um, yeah, he claimed that he had
19:43
Speaker 1: a million followers on for his internet show, um, and
19:52
Speaker 1: I think that's he didn't say too much more about
19:55
Speaker 1: that crime stories with Nancy Grace. Why don't you think
20:12
Speaker 1: why do you think? I mean, I have an opinion,
20:15
Speaker 1: but why do you think he hated Carol Basking so
20:19
Speaker 1: much he wanted to kill her? Well? I think that, Um,
20:28
Speaker 1: I think that he didn't like that she well, obviously
20:34
Speaker 1: he didn't like that she was attacking him for having
20:36
Speaker 1: the cubs. But also there was the the million dollar lawsuit, um,
20:44
Speaker 1: which he brought on himself for for naming his company right,
20:50
Speaker 1: you know, almost the same name as hers. I think
20:54
Speaker 1: it was Entertainment, I think, yeah, and the logo was
20:58
Speaker 1: so similar. But I think that I think it all
21:03
Speaker 1: came down to just getting even. He just wanted revenge
21:09
Speaker 1: for her saying anything bad about his his zoo, and
21:16
Speaker 1: he just became obsessed with it. What did you make
21:22
Speaker 1: of the first would be hitman, Alan Glover? What did
21:25
Speaker 1: you think about him? Well, he, in my opinion, he
21:33
Speaker 1: had either been drinking or he had been doing some drugs.
21:38
Speaker 1: I don't know, but when he was on the stand,
21:41
Speaker 1: his eyes were bloodshot, he was real sweaty. He was
21:45
Speaker 1: just obviously very uncomfortable. I found him believable and I
21:53
Speaker 1: think probably the other jury members did too, since nobody
21:57
Speaker 1: even questioned that in delivery. I don't think he ever
22:04
Speaker 1: intended to kill her or try to kill her when
22:08
Speaker 1: he told Joe that he would. I think all along
22:11
Speaker 1: he was just going to take the money and run. Yeah,
22:16
Speaker 1: I just I found himbelievable. I know that he has
22:20
Speaker 1: ever actually oh yeah, yeah, But I mean, who do
22:23
Speaker 1: you think is going to be hanging out with Joe
22:25
Speaker 1: exotic nuns and priests and virgins? No, what do you
22:29
Speaker 1: make I understand that Alan Glover had issues, but no
22:35
Speaker 1: one challenged his credibility. You believed him. What about the
22:39
Speaker 1: undercover agent? You know, I was thinking about that the
22:43
Speaker 1: other day, and I can't even remember what he looks like.
22:47
Speaker 1: I know he took the stand, but I just I
22:50
Speaker 1: don't remember much about his testimony at all. I guess
22:56
Speaker 1: I believe Garretson, and he's he's pretty much the one
23:01
Speaker 1: that they gave all the information about it, and the
23:05
Speaker 1: FBI agent if I I mean, I'm sure he just
23:09
Speaker 1: backed it up. But Garrettson, I felt like when he
23:13
Speaker 1: gave all the information about the recordings and and all
23:18
Speaker 1: of the things that Joe asked him to do, um
23:23
Speaker 1: be involved in the fake ID and the phone and
23:25
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um. I felt like he was
23:30
Speaker 1: very well, there was UM I want to say it
23:36
Speaker 1: was in Oh, I don't remember where it was at,
23:40
Speaker 1: but they went to some sort of the undercover agents
23:44
Speaker 1: fake ID. Well it had to do with UM. Oh
23:51
Speaker 1: it actually maybe Yeah, I'm just I remember them talking
23:55
Speaker 1: about a fake ID and and for some reason I'm
23:59
Speaker 1: thinking it was for Glover, but I could be wrong. Yeah,
24:03
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. You had to listen to
24:05
Speaker 1: all the tapes of the federal agent speaking to Joe
24:11
Speaker 1: Exotic as Exotic was trying to get him to kill Baskin.
24:15
Speaker 1: Were the tapes believable? Oh? Yeah, absolutely believable. The undercover
24:24
Speaker 1: agent was just he talked like like he actually lived
24:31
Speaker 1: at the park. You would never know that he wasn't
24:35
Speaker 1: wasn't the kind of person that Garrettson would hang out with.
24:39
Speaker 1: I can see why Joe had no idea that he
24:42
Speaker 1: was an FBIA. I guess you now know that Joe Exotic,
24:49
Speaker 1: not his real name, has filed a multi million dollar
24:54
Speaker 1: lawsuit claiming that he was entrapped, that the government let
25:00
Speaker 1: him lured him into this. What do you make of that, Kristen, Oh,
25:06
Speaker 1: I think that he's grasping at straws. There was absolutely
25:11
Speaker 1: no evidence of a setup at all. Everything Everything that
25:17
Speaker 1: we were given as far as evidence, was either in
25:21
Speaker 1: a video or recording or a text messages or email.
25:29
Speaker 1: Everything was documented in some way and it was really
25:32
Speaker 1: just a matter of sitting down and going through it
25:36
Speaker 1: and putting things together. And there was really no question
25:41
Speaker 1: about his guilt on any of the charges. So you're
25:46
Speaker 1: telling me that, you guys, once you got injured, deliberations
25:49
Speaker 1: taught for about twenty minutes about two hitmen killed Carol Baskin,
25:55
Speaker 1: and the rest of the nearly four hours was about
25:59
Speaker 1: the lace. See at the Endangered Species the Wildlife Act.
26:04
Speaker 1: Why do you thank you guys devoted so much time
26:07
Speaker 1: to what happened to the animals? Well, there was we
26:11
Speaker 1: had to go through all the documents, um, and we
26:15
Speaker 1: went through those one by one and then um, there
26:18
Speaker 1: was one juror that wanted to go through a second time. UM.
26:22
Speaker 1: But it was just kind of um matching things up
26:27
Speaker 1: and and and trying to make sure that what we
26:32
Speaker 1: were seeing was actually, um, what the indictment said, righty right,
26:39
Speaker 1: it was because these were all forms that we weren't
26:41
Speaker 1: familiar with, and and so yeah, we we we only
26:47
Speaker 1: had one juror who um was a holdout for a
26:52
Speaker 1: little bit on the charges um well, the cubs selling
26:58
Speaker 1: the cubs. He was charged one count for each cub
27:04
Speaker 1: that he sold across state lines, and another charge was
27:08
Speaker 1: for falsifying the document, the USDA document, And so each
27:15
Speaker 1: cub there were two charges and one jurg just said
27:18
Speaker 1: I can't find because there's the act of selling the cub,
27:22
Speaker 1: which is against the Dangerous Species Act, and then there's
27:25
Speaker 1: the forging of the documents to sell the cub to
27:28
Speaker 1: make it look like the cub was donated or given
27:31
Speaker 1: for sanctuary. So yeah, I get it. And the one
27:35
Speaker 1: Gerard got hung up on that. Yeah, she just said,
27:39
Speaker 1: I just don't think I can find him guilty of
27:41
Speaker 1: two charges on each cub. And I said, well, there
27:43
Speaker 1: there are two crimes you, I mean, he did it.
27:48
Speaker 1: He did both of them, so I don't know if
27:50
Speaker 1: you find him guilty on one, you almost have to
27:52
Speaker 1: find him guilty on the other. But I mean, it
27:56
Speaker 1: didn't wrong for her to come around. What about what
28:00
Speaker 1: was the response of the jury, the individual jarrs when
28:04
Speaker 1: there were the counts of shooting tigers in their cages. Okay,
28:11
Speaker 1: So the story behind those tigers is that there were
28:18
Speaker 1: five tigers that were kept in three cages, and somebody
28:25
Speaker 1: wanted to board three tigers there and pay to board them,
28:30
Speaker 1: and Joe didn't have any empty cages, so he pulled
28:34
Speaker 1: those five tigers out to empty those cages, and he
28:38
Speaker 1: shot those tigers and buried them on his property to
28:43
Speaker 1: make money for boarding. That's how little the tigers meant
28:47
Speaker 1: to him and how much money meant to him, and
28:51
Speaker 1: that was probably the most disturbing thing of anything he did.
28:57
Speaker 1: They had a vet come on who had records for
29:00
Speaker 1: those tigers, and they were all healthy. They were all
29:05
Speaker 1: between I think she said nine and twelve years old,
29:09
Speaker 1: and tigers can live to be seventeen or eighteen, so
29:12
Speaker 1: they were they had plenty of life left. And Joe
29:18
Speaker 1: had tried to say that they were all old and
29:20
Speaker 1: they were sick and that he was putting them out
29:22
Speaker 1: of their misery, and it was absolutely not true. Did
29:27
Speaker 1: he shoot them right there in their cage. I believe
29:33
Speaker 1: he pulled them out one at a time, He injected
29:38
Speaker 1: something so that they would fall asleep, and then he
29:40
Speaker 1: shot him in the head. Who testified to that, Kristen,
29:46
Speaker 1: I know that, Eric. I believe it's Cowley. He was
29:53
Speaker 1: the first one that testified. He took care of those tigers,
29:58
Speaker 1: so he he testified about that. In fact, one of
30:02
Speaker 1: them his name was Cuddles, and he was very close
30:06
Speaker 1: to that tiger and he started crying on the stand
30:10
Speaker 1: when he was talking about it. I believe. I believe
30:15
Speaker 1: John Finlay talked about it too, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
30:38
Speaker 1: Now that you've seen the Netflix special and there's been
30:41
Speaker 1: so much discussion of it, how do you compare And
30:45
Speaker 1: I'm not trashing the Netflix special, I watched it too.
30:49
Speaker 1: How do you compare what you saw there to what
30:52
Speaker 1: you saw in court? Because most people believe what they
30:56
Speaker 1: see on TV. They don't get at the jury heard
31:02
Speaker 1: evidence that led them to a verdict. How do you
31:05
Speaker 1: compare that crazy series of Netflix to what really happened
31:12
Speaker 1: in real life? Well, I have a friend who who
31:18
Speaker 1: had said to me that this was a docu drama,
31:21
Speaker 1: not a document documentary or a docum series, and that's
31:25
Speaker 1: exactly what it was. They created storylines that not only
31:31
Speaker 1: we didn't see, but but they didn't show what we
31:35
Speaker 1: did see. They didn't include that there was evidence about
31:41
Speaker 1: the hitman, and they didn't tell the story behind the tigers,
31:45
Speaker 1: and they made him out to be almost a victim.
31:50
Speaker 1: They made him seem lovable and them he was such
31:56
Speaker 1: a good guy, and um, it just wasn't even the
32:00
Speaker 1: same story. It did a huge injustice to the jury
32:05
Speaker 1: because now people think that we convicted him based on
32:08
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing. And I know it didn't take us long
32:12
Speaker 1: to deliberate, but that's because we were handed everything we needed.
32:18
Speaker 1: And I think his ego was so big that he
32:20
Speaker 1: really thought that that there was no way he'd be
32:24
Speaker 1: found guilty. Chreston, what was his reaction when guilty was
32:29
Speaker 1: read out in the courtroom. He put his head down.
32:35
Speaker 1: He was obviously upset. He at one point looked each
32:41
Speaker 1: juror in the face and was kind of shaking his head.
32:45
Speaker 1: And I can tell you that I didn't get the
32:50
Speaker 1: feeling that his attorneys were surprised at all. But but
32:56
Speaker 1: you know, they also can remain stoic or in verdicts
33:00
Speaker 1: of all the trials I've seen, so I don't think
33:03
Speaker 1: that's an indication of anything. But he was he was
33:06
Speaker 1: surprised Kristen, what has your life been like since the
33:14
Speaker 1: verdict and since the documentary or as you say, docudrama
33:19
Speaker 1: aired on Netflix. Um, well, I mean after the trial,
33:25
Speaker 1: and I could tell people, you know, what trial I
33:28
Speaker 1: had was a juror on and they had some questions
33:33
Speaker 1: but not tons. But now once this came out, they,
33:38
Speaker 1: my friends and my friends friends ask a lot of
33:42
Speaker 1: questions about about him and what it was like in
33:45
Speaker 1: the courtroom. And I mean, I can't answer a lot
33:50
Speaker 1: about a lot of the people that were on the
33:53
Speaker 1: the show because they not all of them took the stand.
33:57
Speaker 1: Only some of them did. And and I was honestly
34:01
Speaker 1: disappointed that Jeff Low didn't take the stand. I did
34:04
Speaker 1: kind of want to hear how he was tied into
34:06
Speaker 1: it all, but he never took the stand. I mean,
34:11
Speaker 1: to people act like you did the wrong thing, and
34:16
Speaker 1: some of them now do. Yeah, they'll they'll say, what
34:22
Speaker 1: did you convict him on? There was nothing there, There
34:25
Speaker 1: was no evidence, And I said, well that's because that
34:28
Speaker 1: wasn't a courtroom show. That wasn't They didn't show the trial.
34:33
Speaker 1: They showed you what they want you to believe. And
34:36
Speaker 1: you just have to remember that that is all for entertainment.
34:40
Speaker 1: That is shock value, and you know, don't believe everything
34:45
Speaker 1: you see because it really there was so much more
34:48
Speaker 1: to it than what they're showing you when you look
34:52
Speaker 1: back on at Kristen, how do you feel about the
34:55
Speaker 1: whole thing? I absolutely feel like we made the right
34:59
Speaker 1: desc decision. I think that um, I think that he
35:04
Speaker 1: deserved what he got. There's there is no doubt in
35:11
Speaker 1: my mind at all that he did every single thing
35:16
Speaker 1: in those charges. So I feel very confident with what
35:21
Speaker 1: with the decision we make. So grateful that we've gotten
35:25
Speaker 1: to actually see you and hear you because it makes
35:29
Speaker 1: me know that the jury did the right thing. I
35:32
Speaker 1: don't have to question it because I've met a jurar.
35:35
Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about the evidence and how you
35:38
Speaker 1: reasoned it. Kristen, thank you from all of us. Can
35:43
Speaker 1: I just say one quick thing on this uh this
35:50
Speaker 1: last show, Netflix showed that they added his campaign manager
35:54
Speaker 1: said that the reason that he was found guilty is
35:59
Speaker 1: because Oklahomans don't like Joe exotic and Oklahomans don't like gays. Well,
36:05
Speaker 1: I can tell you when I walked in the courtroom,
36:07
Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was, so I had that
36:11
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. And as far as
36:14
Speaker 1: gay people, that it is so insulting that anybody would
36:20
Speaker 1: say that about the jury, that that was the reason
36:23
Speaker 1: that we came to that verdict. I can tell you
36:26
Speaker 1: in deliberations we didn't talk about his husband's we didn't
36:32
Speaker 1: talk about his sexual orientation, we didn't talk about anything
36:37
Speaker 1: like that. So I just want that to be cleared up,
36:40
Speaker 1: that that had no heart in our decision. Kristen, thank
36:44
Speaker 1: you for clearing that up, and I'm so glad you
36:46
Speaker 1: brought it up. Thank you for being with us.