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Tesla's Vehicles Sales Have Investors Feeling Optimistic · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 2: All right, we've been talking a lot about Tesla this morning.
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  Speaker 2: There delivery numbers came in weaker than expected. We had
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  Speaker 2: Dan Ives and Webbush Securities on earlier and he was
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  Speaker 2: just saying, hey, relative to maybe the whisper number, they
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  Speaker 2: came in a little bit better than expected. Here, let's
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  Speaker 2: get the broad overview of what's happening at our good
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  Speaker 2: friends at Tesla stops up about two point eight percent today,
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  Speaker 2: but it's down about twenty four percent you to date.
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  Speaker 2: Return to Pierre Farragu, head of Global Technology Infrastructure at
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  Speaker 2: New Street Research.
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  Speaker 3: Pierre, thanks so much for.
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  Speaker 2: Joining us here. How do you think about these Tesla numbers?
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  Speaker 2: What does it mean for the near and intermediate term
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  Speaker 2: story at Tesla?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, as you said, there is a bit of a
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  Speaker 3: positive surprise, like people tracking very precisely deliveries in various
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  Speaker 3: markets while expecting slightly lower numbers. The surprise comes from
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  Speaker 3: the US. The US did is a place where it's
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  Speaker 3: the most difficult to track the number of Tesla being
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  Speaker 3: delivered and the US bit expectations. So that's a model
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  Speaker 3: while coming in doing actually quite well. That's good, But
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  Speaker 3: then at the end of the day you have to
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  Speaker 3: remember the big picture. We are down thirteen persons here
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  Speaker 3: on air. So we are facing a situation where Tesla
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  Speaker 3: is struggling to sell cars. A gross margin is in
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  Speaker 3: the latins. To me, Tesla facing good demons should be
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  Speaker 3: able to defend like mid mid twenties ghost margin. So
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  Speaker 3: we have like we are facing like a core business,
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  Speaker 3: not to business that is really at a very low
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  Speaker 3: point that is struggling. And so that's the difficulty. You have,
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  Speaker 3: like one structural difficulty that is relatively that we understand
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  Speaker 3: relatively well. It's that with their current product, Tesla has
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  Speaker 3: kind of saturated its opportunity. Tesla needs lower highs points
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  Speaker 3: to keep growing and that's in the plan they're working
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  Speaker 3: on it. And then you have a number of other issues.
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  Speaker 3: You know, electric cars are less fashionable than they were
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  Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. The Tesla brand has suffered,
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  Speaker 3: particularly in Europe where numbers are down like almost forty
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  Speaker 3: percent on air and so it is definitely it's difficult
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  Speaker 3: to quantify, but it is a significant headwind as well.
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  Speaker 3: And Overhall, you know, the economy is not the best
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  Speaker 3: you can imagine for Auto DIMA.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean when we look at the mag seven stocks,
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  Speaker 4: we see Tesla as the primary laggard this year, down
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  Speaker 4: about twenty three percent. And of course we know that
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  Speaker 4: investors have really been vying for Mask's attention as has
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  Speaker 4: been really politically involved. So as we're seeing these numbers
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  Speaker 4: come through, what do things like moving forward? Are these
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  Speaker 4: numbers a massive impact or are the Tesla loyalists still
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  Speaker 4: out there? And is there some further positivity to come?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, you the Testla stock has been on a roller coaster.
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  Speaker 3: It's like a very low performer this year, but it
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  Speaker 3: was like a clear outperformer last last year. And as
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  Speaker 3: you said, you know, it's following, it's following. You know,
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  Speaker 3: the political care if I may say, of the CEO
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  Speaker 3: in a musk and like this has created this situation.
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  Speaker 3: Now if you look at the stock, you know, since
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  Speaker 3: you know, like April first, what you see that what
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  Speaker 3: tends to really move the stock is actually the new
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  Speaker 3: flow around how the company is now focused on deploying
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  Speaker 3: fleets of robot taxes. They've just started that in a
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  Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, like late late last months, and
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  Speaker 3: I think that's going to be the primary driver of
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  Speaker 3: the stock going forward. Of course, there is a lot
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  Speaker 3: of uncertainty on you know, how fast TESTA is going
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  Speaker 3: to be able to deploy ROBOTEXI. I'll even make your
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  Speaker 3: proffits like generate the profits out of the robotex Frietz.
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  Speaker 3: But the size of the price is so gigantic and
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  Speaker 3: so much more than yotel business that right, this is
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  Speaker 3: probably what drives us start going forward.
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  Speaker 2: Pierre, thank you so much for joining us. Always appreciate
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  Speaker 2: getting your thoughts there. Pierre fargu He's set of Global
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  Speaker 2: Technology Infrastructure at New Street Research.
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's get back to Tesla. It's being we've
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  Speaker 2: been talking about today. They reported some delivery numbers give
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  Speaker 2: it a little bit light of forecast. Stocks up a
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  Speaker 2: little bit today and Dan ives and what Bush Security
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  Speaker 2: suggested that might be because the wish for numbers out
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  Speaker 2: there were a little bit lower, so the company exceeded them.
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  Speaker 2: So we're there. But there's surely been some negative sentiment
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  Speaker 2: around Tesla stock. It's down twenty five percent year to date,
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  Speaker 2: some concerns about Elon Musk and his commitment to the company.
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  Speaker 2: But there's still a lot to like out there about
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  Speaker 2: Tesla if you look at the numbers. And that's what
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  Speaker 2: our next guest does, Matt Winkler. He's editor in chief
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  Speaker 2: emeritus of Bloomberg News. He founded Bloomberg News. To me,
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  Speaker 2: that's the point here, and he joins us here on
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  Speaker 2: our Bloomberg and Active Broker studio. Matt, thanks so much
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  Speaker 2: for joining us. You've got to call him out today
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  Speaker 2: with your colleague Hinte saying, Hey, if you look at
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  Speaker 2: the numbers here at Tesla, it's an extraordinary story.
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  Speaker 5: Still.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I, by the way, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 6: And I would invoke our founder Mike Bloomberger himself, who
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  Speaker 6: when he was Mayor of New York would say often
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  Speaker 6: in God, we trust everyone else bring data, and so
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  Speaker 6: the data compiled by Bloomberg shows that this ed startup
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  Speaker 6: would call Tesla, founded by engineers Martin Eberhart and Mark
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  Speaker 6: Tarpening in two thousand and three, is still the world's
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  Speaker 6: low largest automaker, ninth largest public company, and worth more
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  Speaker 6: than the gross domestic product of Saudi Arabia. And for
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  Speaker 6: all its might as a global sales leader, Toyota Motor Corp.
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  Speaker 6: Is about a quarter of Tesla's more than one trillion
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  Speaker 6: dollar valuation as of today, after the very numbers that
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  Speaker 6: you reported, and by the way, the stock is up
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  Speaker 6: the most since June. Okay, so initially the media take
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  Speaker 6: was negative, negative, negative, and people with the most at stake,
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  Speaker 6: which is where the data is, say not so fast.
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  Speaker 6: And there's a reason for that. You know what we
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  Speaker 6: did my college pay and I is we asked that
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  Speaker 6: very question. Okay, with all this negative news that is prevailing,
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  Speaker 6: that is the prevailing narrative. Why is that, through thick
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  Speaker 6: and thin every single month this year, Tesla is still
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  Speaker 6: worth more than Toyota, and Bloomberg's own alternative artificial intelligence
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  Speaker 6: function DSX tells there are plenty of reasons. One is
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  Speaker 6: that if you just took out the vehicle itself. There's
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  Speaker 6: still a trillion dollar market capitalization on the autonomous striving
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  Speaker 6: that is coming soon to everyone through Tesla. So there
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  Speaker 6: are all kinds of reasons why Tesla has the value
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  Speaker 6: that it has. But I would like to share with
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  Speaker 6: you something that I got from a Bloomberg user this
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  Speaker 6: morning at an email. He said, we don't need AI
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  Speaker 6: to understand why Tesla critics are losing. Critics are either
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  Speaker 6: motivated by hate we've seen that politics, or a misunderstanding
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  Speaker 6: of time. Tesla represents the most extraordinary array of products,
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  Speaker 6: some of which are destined to become core components of
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  Speaker 6: the future economy and life of humanity. That's from our
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  Speaker 6: Bloomberg user, John Billings, who's in Washington, DC. So this
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  Speaker 6: is a big part of the story that everybody misses.
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  Speaker 6: And if you just look at quarterly sales reports, that's
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  Speaker 6: not going to give you the picture. But I would
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  Speaker 6: say even in that context, the Model Why was the
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  Speaker 6: best selling vehicle in the world in twenty twenty three,
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  Speaker 6: twenty twenty four, and poised to be certainly the best
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  Speaker 6: ev selling vehicle in twenty twenty five and maybe again
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  Speaker 6: repeat and the reason why the deliveries were slow in
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  Speaker 6: the first in the second quarter was because they were retooling, renovating,
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  Speaker 6: updating the model. Why sales are way up in Norway
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  Speaker 6: and Spain by the way, so so much for the
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  Speaker 6: demand problem.
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  Speaker 4: How are you thinking about it in relation to peers?
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  Speaker 4: I mean, I know a lot of people have really
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  Speaker 4: been clamoring for Musk to turn his attention back to Tesla.
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  Speaker 4: And I mean when you think about some of these
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  Speaker 4: numbers that were parsing, as you mentioned, and your story
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  Speaker 4: that everything about Tesla these days has really been ranging
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  Speaker 4: from bad to worse. So when you think about the
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  Speaker 4: future of the company in comparison to peers, you know,
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  Speaker 4: what are just some of the things that you expect
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  Speaker 4: in terms of performance moving forward?
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  Speaker 6: Well, let's just look at the past ten years. By
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  Speaker 6: the way, twenty fifteen, most of the analysts that provide
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  Speaker 6: forecasts were negative about Tesla. Barrish, don't buy the stock.
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  Speaker 6: But what happened. Tesla's ninety seven point seven billion dollars
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  Speaker 6: of revenue last year is more than thirty times it's
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  Speaker 6: sales a decade ago. Now that outperforms even China's byd Okay,
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  Speaker 6: which has been the star of late in the media narrative.
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  Speaker 6: But if you look at something like Tesla's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, hamorgtization,
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  Speaker 6: it's more than three hundred times the company's profit a
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  Speaker 6: decade ago. Number two byd grew only fifteen times. You know,
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  Speaker 6: if you look at Tesla's current market capitalization, it's thirty
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  Speaker 6: one times it's value a decade ago, which is just
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  Speaker 6: another way of saying that among the top ten automakers
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  Speaker 6: that Tesla competes with, Tesla's revenue growth, it's profit, and
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  Speaker 6: its market value are superior, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
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  Speaker 2: Always brand value. Last question, One could argue the evaluation
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  Speaker 2: has always had a big, big Elon Musk premium based
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  Speaker 2: into it. His brand arguably has been diminished over the
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  Speaker 2: last six months with his political actions in doge A.
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  Speaker 2: Is that a concern or should it be a concern
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  Speaker 2: for investors? And you think is there a long term
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  Speaker 2: brand issue?
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  Speaker 4: Do you think so?
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  Speaker 6: I'm not qualified to answer that question, However, somebody who
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  Speaker 6: probably is is Nicholas Coelis, who's the co founder of
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  Speaker 6: Data Trek, and he's been covering the auto industry since
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  Speaker 6: the nineteen eighties, which is kind of when I sort
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: of entered the picture and he says, there's something that
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  Speaker 6: is no Algo spreadsheet can understand, which is why hero
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  Speaker 6: led companies are often so valuable. Yep, yep.
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  Speaker 2: Interesting. All right, Matt, great column as always. Matt Winkler,
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  Speaker 2: Editor in chief, Emeritis, founder of Bloomberg News. I think
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  Speaker 2: he drives around one of these Tesla things. I kind
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  Speaker 2: of went there last time. I got my young youngest
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  Speaker 2: a hybrid Honda, so I'm kind of getting there. But
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  Speaker 2: give me the hey close, give me the gass.
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  Speaker 5: Mapple. Thank you so much.
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  Speaker 2: We appreciate that.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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• 11:27
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• 11:30
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I'd say one of the more competitive industries I see
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  Speaker 2: out there day in and day out. As a wireless business.
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  Speaker 2: You got the Big three, eighteen T Verizon, Team Mobile,
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  Speaker 2: and I mean it's all on price. I mean it's
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  Speaker 2: all kind of the same. I don't know that. Being said,
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  Speaker 2: I've been with Verizon since the beginning of wireless, so
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  Speaker 2: maybe likewise get no churing going there. John Butler, he
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  Speaker 2: covers all this stuff for Bloomberg Intelligence. John Butler, senior
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  Speaker 2: telecom anaists for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's based down there in
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  Speaker 2: print in New Jersey. John, what's the state of the
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  Speaker 2: wireless industry today? Again, you've got those big three? How competitive?
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  Speaker 5: Is it? Hyper competitive? Paul?
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  Speaker 7: It really is interesting. Just as you said, there's a
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  Speaker 7: lot the Big three at and T verizing T Mobile.
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  Speaker 7: They're always slugging it out with themselves. But now that
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  Speaker 7: you've got the cable operators coming in offering wireless at
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  Speaker 7: very enticing price points, and their brand strength is getting better,
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  Speaker 7: and so they're becoming more and more of an issue
• 12:32
  Speaker 7: quarter and in quarter about well, we as analysts sort
• 12:35
  Speaker 7: of measure as the health of a telecom and any
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: given quarter as we look at the number of net
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  Speaker 7: news smartphone subscribers that carrier ads or phone net ads
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  Speaker 7: as they're called. And what we've seen every quarter is
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  Speaker 7: the cable operators now are getting even up to half
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  Speaker 7: the net ads in a given quarter, So they're becoming
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  Speaker 7: a big factor. Having said all that, I'm impressed with
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  Speaker 7: how the carriers are keeping their service revenue growth pretty steady.
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  Speaker 7: You know, telecom is not a growth business. So if
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: you're getting three to five percent growth in your service revenue,
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  Speaker 7: it's a pretty good quarter. And I think we're in
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  Speaker 7: for more of that this quarter with the exception of Horizon.
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  Speaker 7: Then we can talk more about that if.
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  Speaker 5: You want, John.
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  Speaker 4: When I think about wireless carriers and I think about
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  Speaker 4: some of these phone providers, it feels as though everyone
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  Speaker 4: has their brand that they stick to. And as we
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  Speaker 4: were mentioning earlier, does it really feel like there's necessarily
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  Speaker 4: anything to entice people to hop around? But given all
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  Speaker 4: of this in regards to marketing or really just being
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  Speaker 4: able to drive demand, where are you seeing? Which company
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  Speaker 4: are you seeing as the biggest leader here?
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: Team Mobile is the runaway hit Nora. It's amazing. They really.
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: Team Mobile Tuesdays, they have giveaways once a week. They're
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: brilliant marketers, just brilliant, And it's funny if you rewind
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  Speaker 7: the clock fifteen years they had a near death experience,
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  Speaker 7: Like I didn't think that carrier was going.
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  Speaker 5: To make it. They brought in a very.
• 14:05
  Speaker 7: Dynamic CEO named John Ledger, who really turned around the brand.
• 14:10
  Speaker 7: He made himself the face of the brand. They branded
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: it as this sort of hip, counter culture, consumer friendly brand.
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  Speaker 7: People just love it. And in the meantime, they've done
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  Speaker 7: a great job updating the network and upgrading it so
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: and after buying Sprint, of course, they now have the
• 14:29
  Speaker 7: scale to really compete with AT and T and Verizon.
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  Speaker 7: They've gone from a distant third in the industry to
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: now the second largest wireless carrier. And they just they
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: lead the industry and net ads quarter in in quarter out,
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  Speaker 7: which is a testament to the power of their marketing.
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  Speaker 2: All Right, I'm a Verizon wireless customer, been one since
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the beginning of this whole wireless thing. Me too, by
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  Speaker 2: the way, exactly, So what's the story for those guys
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  Speaker 2: in terms of how they're dealing with the competition.
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  Speaker 7: I think it's easy to sort of play armchair CEO here,
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: but I think Verizon is making a bit of a
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  Speaker 7: mistake by not meeting rivals in promotions. They really take
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  Speaker 7: the high ground. They want to protect a premium brand image.
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  Speaker 7: For years and years they had the best network out there.
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  Speaker 7: I still think they have the edge there, but that
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  Speaker 7: gap is closing, particularly in the minds of a lot
• 15:24
  Speaker 7: of consumers that don't follow the industry. T Mobile keeps
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: banging away that they have the best network in the US,
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: and so that sort of premium brand image that Verizon
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  Speaker 7: had is beginning to erode.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: And yet they're not meeting T Mobile or the cable.
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: Guys sort of you know, tip for tad on promotions
• 15:45
  Speaker 7: and so on the margin. In recent quarters at least
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: they've lost phone subscribers. Not a lot, but it's beginning
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: to really chip away for them, and it's chipping away
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: at their service revenue growth again because I just don't
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  Speaker 7: think they're promoting enough.
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  Speaker 5: John.
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  Speaker 4: So you've got the big three, what is the leadest
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: with M and A in the space? Is there anything
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  Speaker 4: left to consolidate?
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: Not much, Nora.
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: You know there's been where the telcos are really looking
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: for growth is on the broadband side, and you've seen
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: a lot of consolidation there with the Verizon most recently
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: buying Frontier, which is a big fiber provider. They really
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: have strength in several states across the US. AT and
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: T has done a really good job. They're buying Luman's
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: fiber business. So you've got consolidation there on the wireless side.
• 16:43
  Speaker 7: You've seen t mobiles snapping up a lot of the
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: independent and private prepaid brands like Mint Mobile is one
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: of their most recent They're buying TDS, which is a
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: small regional wireless carrier. So there really is nothing left
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: here or except for big transformational acquisitions, and they really
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: would be gigantic on that scale.
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  Speaker 5: So I'm just not seeing it.
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  Speaker 2: So John, just real quickly here, is this an r
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  Speaker 2: POO story? Is this just raising prices to consumers? Is
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: that the growth story here for most of these big.
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  Speaker 7: Guys, it's raising it's raising prices, Paul, Definitely, that's how
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  Speaker 7: you're getting that three to five percent service revenue growth.
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: But I think another part of the story and one
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  Speaker 7: to watch is that Telco expansion into broadband. They're doing
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: a great job there expanding into fiber and both that
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: and fixed wireless access which is getting broadband over the air.
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: So I think we're going to see a lot of
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  Speaker 7: growth and increasing amount of growth to be precise, in
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: coming quarters coming from that end of the business.
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  Speaker 2: All right, John, thanks so much for joining us. Always
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: appreciate getting update from you. John Butler. He's a senior
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: telecom analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's based down there in
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: our Princeton office looking at this the telecom stocks here,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: they've actually got some decent returns this year. I was
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: looking at the AT and T, Verizon, T Mobile, AT
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  Speaker 2: and T year to dates up twenty five percent, Verizon's
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  Speaker 2: up nine percent, and T Mobiles up eight percent, and
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  Speaker 2: on a trailing twelve month basis EIGHTE and T's up
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  Speaker 2: fifty percent, Verizon six percent, and T Mobile thirty three percent.
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  Speaker 2: So for stocks that kind of grow top line, as
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: John was saying, kind of three eight to five percent,
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  Speaker 2: some pretty decent returns as they try to expand their
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: business lines away from their core wireline and wireless and
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: get increasingly into broadbands. So we'll keep an eye on
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  Speaker 2: some of those telecom names.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
• 18:41
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• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey Palmer joins as Senior vice president, head of Multi
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  Speaker 2: Asset Solutions. I'm not sure what that is, but I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to say it has to do with some alternative investment,
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  Speaker 2: maybe some real investments like real estate. Jeff, thanks so
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  Speaker 2: much for joining us here. Coeny Steers, I've known this
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  Speaker 2: asset manager on the street forever, but I've never done
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  Speaker 2: business with them because you don't really own media stocks,
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  Speaker 2: which was my game. You guys own real estate reads
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  Speaker 2: stuff like that. Talk to us about your how you
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  Speaker 2: guys look at the marketplace where you see opportunity.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, so thanks for having me this morning. So we focus,
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  Speaker 8: as you mentioned, on real assets and alternative income strategies,
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  Speaker 8: and those real assets strategies in particular real estate, infrastructure, commodities,
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  Speaker 8: natural resource equities, in short, things that are exposed to
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  Speaker 8: the real economy that have real ties to the economy,
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  Speaker 8: inflation sensitive assets. So that's certainly been a really important
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  Speaker 8: part of the world these days. And then that all
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  Speaker 8: kind of fits in also to that alternatives universe that
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  Speaker 8: we think offers diversification to your traditional stock and bond portfolio.
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  Speaker 4: So I cover Reads for our equities teams. Super happy
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  Speaker 4: to have you here.
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  Speaker 8: As I'm looking at.
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  Speaker 4: Read's performance this year, I mean, we're seeing shares that
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  Speaker 4: didn't really do much. I'm looking at engageentsuff about four
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  Speaker 4: tenths of a percent so far this year. What are
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  Speaker 4: you seeing in terms of performance and opportunities within the
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  Speaker 4: read space, any particular sub sectors that you're keeping an
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  Speaker 4: eye on.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, so, I mean we should also kind of think
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  Speaker 8: about the year has already been full of a whole
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  Speaker 8: bunch of rotation. It was a pretty good first quarter
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  Speaker 8: for reads. They've cooled off a little bit in the
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  Speaker 8: second quarter, and that sort of is the mirror image
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  Speaker 8: from the broader SMP. Broadly speaking, we think that reads
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  Speaker 8: are pretty fairly valued, actually, you know, attractive relative to
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  Speaker 8: broader equity markets. Within the reed space, you know, there's
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  Speaker 8: certain areas that we like, and then within the within
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  Speaker 8: the private real estate space, I would also add, you know,
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  Speaker 8: there's areas like open air shopping centers that have become
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  Speaker 8: you know, to us, we think our finding a bottom
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  Speaker 8: and in that private space is a little bit different
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  Speaker 8: than the listed space as well.
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  Speaker 2: In private space, Let's just like I always made the
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  Speaker 2: mistake of commercial real estate just oh it's office so
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  Speaker 2: much more. I've now learned that through people kind of
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  Speaker 2: pointing it out to me. Where do in commercial real
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  Speaker 2: estate broadly defined, where do you guys see value in
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  Speaker 2: the private side.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, so Nora will tell you that office is only
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  Speaker 8: about three or four percent of the total listed index.
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  Speaker 8: Now that's down and our team has been underweight office
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  Speaker 8: for a long time, and so we've really benefited from
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  Speaker 8: that trade. So within that space I mentioned in the
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  Speaker 8: private space, that open air retail, it looks a little
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  Speaker 8: bit better. In listed markets, we favored things like multi
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  Speaker 8: family homes. Within healthcare maybe a little bit nicheer, but
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  Speaker 8: you know, senior living areas. Certainly, Data centers have been
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  Speaker 8: a very important part. That's true not only in real estate,
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  Speaker 8: but also things tied to that in the infrastructure space
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  Speaker 8: as well.
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  Speaker 4: So you mentioned open air shopping centers. Do you mind
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  Speaker 4: just explaining to our listeners what exactly that is, because
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  Speaker 4: I know a lot of people were talking for a
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  Speaker 4: long time about the death of the mall, so.
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  Speaker 8: Meat to that, and this is not quite the mall,
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  Speaker 8: the renaissance of the mall, if you like. So think
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  Speaker 8: about in some cases outlet centers or in some cases
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  Speaker 8: open air outside where you have necessity based shopping center,
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  Speaker 8: so it might have a grocery anchor or a big
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  Speaker 8: box anchor, things that have durability to the Internet shopping cycle,
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  Speaker 8: but then it's sort of built around an anchor store.
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  Speaker 8: Those are areas where it looks like prices have bottomed.
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  Speaker 8: There has not been new supply in the area for
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  Speaker 8: the reasons that you mentioned, because malls have been a
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  Speaker 8: really tough spot. So yields are pretty good, earnings growth
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  Speaker 8: looks pretty good in that area, and that's why we
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  Speaker 8: find some interest in that space.
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  Speaker 2: Where is the capital markets as it relates to real
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  Speaker 2: estate thesas? So, if I want to go out and
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  Speaker 2: develop a multi family unit or some kind of piece
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  Speaker 2: of commercial real estate, am I going to get where?
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  Speaker 2: Am I going to get the money to do that?
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  Speaker 2: My local bank going to lend me that money for
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  Speaker 2: a real estate deal.
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  Speaker 8: So obviously the last few years have been really challenging
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  Speaker 8: or real estate in general. Debt markets have really been tough. Actually,
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  Speaker 8: I think the good news here is that at the margin,
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  Speaker 8: the debt markets are starting to open up a little bit.
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  Speaker 8: It just means, you know, losses are making their way through.
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  Speaker 8: People are kind of realizing some of that, so we
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  Speaker 8: are seeing some pick up and lending. There's going to
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  Speaker 8: be pockets where that's possible and where there's challenges. So
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  Speaker 8: you should think about this less as a national trend
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  Speaker 8: and much more as a local and even in some
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  Speaker 8: cases a hyper local sort of a trade to be
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  Speaker 8: able to do it. But the debt, you know, the
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  Speaker 8: debt financing is coming back, but it's been coming back.
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  Speaker 4: Slowly, super quickly. I know you mentioned your underweight office
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  Speaker 4: and have been for a while. Any other areas that
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  Speaker 4: you guys are actively avoiding.
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  Speaker 8: Well, in certain areas, it's you know, we've certainly seen
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  Speaker 8: an increase in supply sort of working its way through
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  Speaker 8: and that's been you know, in some cases, you know,
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  Speaker 8: apartments and some of those areas because you know that's
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  Speaker 8: where the rent growth has been strongest. It's where there's
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  Speaker 8: been most resils in the cycle. But as that supply
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  Speaker 8: comes through, it still takes some time to absorb. So
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  Speaker 8: that would probably be an area where we've been a
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  Speaker 8: little late.
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  Speaker 2: Jeffrey, thank you so much for joining us. Jeffrey Palmas,
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  Speaker 2: senior vice president, head of multi asset Solutions at Coming
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  Speaker 2: In Steers and a proud graduate of Rutgers University. I'm
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  Speaker 2: a huge fan of Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.
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  Speaker 2: I ton of kids out of Rutgers over the year
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  Speaker 2: and he traines here in a Bloomberg in Director Brokers Studio.
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