Latest / Beyond the Pouch / Starting the Conversation: Men’s Health Takeover Ep. 1 – Beyond the Pouch

Transcript

Starting the Conversation: Men’s Health Takeover Ep. 1 – Beyond the Pouch · Beyond the Pouch

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Men just don't talk about anything.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm quite open about on my social media about um talking about getting your prostate checked, getting your testicular cancer, getting your test, you know, checking your testicles.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: These are things that men don't want to talk about.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: But these are things that we have to talk about.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, with my illness, like kind of ignored it and just didn't want to think about it and ignored it and did that typical man thing of it'll go away.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: It'll go away.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need a doctor.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we do.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: By exposing it for what it is, we can then build those bridges.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: As long as you start having a conversation, we can hopefully help others.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the point, right?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's what this is all about.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about, you know, oh, I'm gonna look differently or people aren't gonna respect me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's I need help.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to be like that, right?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Don't ever be afraid to talk to people.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you talk, start talking to people, you realize how much love and support is out there.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for change, you have to often be the one that creates 100%.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's fine for some men, it's finding that strength and courage to go and do that.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right, everyone, welcome to special edition of Beyond the Pouch Podcast, which is Men's Health Takeover.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And today I'm joined with some fantastic individuals here.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: We've got Keith, we've got Chris, and we've got Mo, we've got myself, and what we're gonna be talking about today, and over the next couple of weeks, are some really important topics about men's health, stomas, and IBD.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I wanted to chat with you guys about today is like sharing some of your personal connections.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, why do you want to talk about this?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, good morning, boys.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Good morning, how are we?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: Very well.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Why do we want to talk about this?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um personally, I think that um men just don't talk about anything.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: They don't tend to alright, they'll talk about football and they'll talk about rugby and other things like that.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: And they just don't want to talk about illnesses, mental health.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: When do when have you ever sat in a group of men and just chatted about your health?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: We don't really, unless someone's really ill and they're out over a pint, maybe.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really say, how are you?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, we do, but we don't want an answer to.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we never tell the truth, do we?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, like I say, we are four men who all have ostomies, and I think it's important to talk about our ostomies, but I think it's also important to talk about things like mental health and illnesses.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm quite open about on my social media about um talking about getting your prostate checked, getting your hundred percent testicular cancer, getting your test, you know, checking your testicles.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: These are things that men don't want to talk about, but these are things that we have to talk about.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I know this is not all about me, but I've recently found a mole on my left arm.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't ignore it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: I went to the doctors, this was about five weeks ago.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've actually had it removed, it's all healing up lovely.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still waiting on the result, but I did something about it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't just ignore it and forget about it because things like this will not go away.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I think this crossed it all works.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing something about it.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure it will.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: But this is the point.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: I could have just stayed at home and think, oh, that'll go away and not talk to anybody about it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: The first thing I did was talk to my wife about it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: We got a doctor's appointment, I was seen pretty quick, and things moved, and before I knew it, I was having it removed.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm on the mend.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: But think about how many men that don't.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's the issue, isn't it?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So many men would just live with proper I mean, I did it.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, with my illness, I kind of ignored it and just didn't want to think about it and ignored it and did that typical man thing of it'll go away.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It'll go away.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need a doctor.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we do.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to talk about it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: It will knock away, no matter what it is.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as men, what I was going to ask you guys with this was like, when you were first diagnosed, what did you was there anything that you wanted differently?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like more men talking about it, like were there people that you could see like in either socials or people you could lean on as a man?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or were you like, I can't talk about it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: What were your thoughts about it?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It comes it came for me, it came down to the context of how I was diagnosed.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: What the way I was told was dreadful.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously I knew there was something wrong with me, and I had numerous hospital attendances and numerous things going on.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And no one could give me an answer as to what was wrong with me.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was clear there was something wrong.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then they obviously did a load of tests, and then I went into hospital one day in agony, and I was lying on a hospital bed, almost in the fetal position, with blood coming out of me, really in a bad way.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And for some reason, Rachel was in the waiting room.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't called her through yet because I went to hospital on my own.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was that bad.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I'd just need to get to hospital.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was lying there on the side, this doctor, so matter-of-factly, because he had a clipboard back then, now they will have tablets, and yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: He said, So, um how long have you had Crohn's?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I beg your pardon?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say it that politely because I was in agony and I was lying on this bed in agony.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this doctor just says, How long have you had Crohn's?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know I had Crohn's at that point.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so no one even suggested that it might be Crohn's.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: They were just so dismissive of it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously they'd done tests.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I obviously had this diagnosis, but no one called me in to say, Chris, we need to talk to you about your diagnosis.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was lying there on a bed.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: How long have you had Crohn's?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What are you talking about?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was relieved.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but sure.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't how you tell somebody.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in answer to that question.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Go with your question again.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well right, was there anything when you were diagnosed?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Were there people you could lean on or talk to?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, because that was a thing.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I would just got some guy saying to me, You've got Crohn's, and what do I do with that information now?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening next?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: What where are we?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So my mind was just going into overdrive because I was like, okay, great, I've got a diagnosis.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pleased with that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But what now?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're just telling me.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: How long does that take?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: What happens after this?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like just the process, isn't it?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't actually know much about your journey and sort of your diagnosis.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: What was that like for you?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get lots of So I was actually diagnosed during COVID.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I started experiencing issues with my bowel in the October.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I went to the doctors come the new year, because the symptoms were just getting worse.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I started getting cramps, this stabbing pain in my lower abdomen.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was constipated all the time.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was just exhausted without really expending any energy.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to the doctors, they did like a physical examination, just kind of pressed around the area to see if they could feel anything.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they said it's just stress.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are coming in to say that.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's everyone's in lockdown, it's COVID, you know, it symptoms seem to suggest that.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they gave me like a four weeks worth of laxatives.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: If that doesn't work, come back to us.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I did go back to them because it wasn't helping.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then they said, Oh, you got IBS.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like and then I thought, well, oh they told me to follow a FODMAP diet.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of a bit like you, it's kind of like where where do I go next?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: What is this all about?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I need more information.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was reading up on it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And IBS, you c there's no test to say, right, this is IBS.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: We it's just what the doctor can kind of suggest based on your symptoms and what you tell them.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And as time went on, I could feel this lump forming in my lower abdomen.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: My family were really pushing me to go back to the doctors because they were like, something's not right here.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're not your usual self.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then on the third occasion I sat down with the same doctor that said it was IBS and said to him, Can we not just do some tests to figure out what it isn't?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we could figure out maybe by a process of elimination, figure out what it is.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, No, no, no, just stick with the IBS medication, it'll be alright.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, give it a couple of more weeks.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I basically just put my foot down and said, I'm not leaving without a test.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So reluctantly sent me for a blood test.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: The blood test showed inflammation, um, I had two more blood tests and a stalk test.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was told it was Crohn's by a consultant, but he was like, Let's do a colonoscopy, let's figure out what's going on.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was there in the colonoscopy that they could see a a lump.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which I'd been complaining about for months.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's when they said, Right, we believe it's cancer.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because they said, you know, the doctors took one look at me and go, You're young, you're fit, you're healthy, you know.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was at the time probably in the best shape of my life, and um I was doing all the right things, taking my vitamins, eating my greens, um, exercising.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they were dismissive of it based on what they could see, rather than going, right, what can we what is it that we we can't see?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: What let's figure out what's going on.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it just spiraled from then on in.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had a couple of rounds of chemo, got a very nasty infection, ended up being in hospital for several months fighting that infection.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a staph infection, so it got into my lungs, started tearing away at my lung wall, got into my joints, started eating away uh at my joints.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was really hard.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like Did you have your support network to s like to chat with and speak, your wash and being a few years?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Being COVID, my wife could only come and see me um an hour a day.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that was providing the online booking service was working, which a lot of the time it wasn't.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So she had to book online to come and see her.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's awful.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when she called to say there isn't a slot available, they said there should be because it's one slot per patient.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, no, no, no, it's not.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It took the Macmillan nurses to come up and come and see me.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just broke down in tears saying, No, I haven't seen my wife for for ages, I could speak to her over the phone.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm stuck in isolation, just in a room all by myself, staring at a clock on the wall, and they were like, No, no, no, we're not having this.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so they they managed to have a conversation with the consultant um and said, Right, all your wife needs to do is call, say what time she's coming, and then she could come along and come and see me.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So And that was a godsend.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just seeing her for one hour each day was just But why just one hour?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: What what difference does make it?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: But COVID they were really trying to, you know, trying to avoid kind of transmission.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're there for an hour the contact's already there, isn't it?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, true.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're full in PPE gear, she's got an apron on, a mask, a shield.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, she's got those latex gloves.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't even touch a hand or skin skin contact.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was So it doesn't feel like you're wide.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, it doesn't see them properly.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well look, thank I mean thank you for let like sharing all that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like even doing this now, like reflecting back on it, like you've gone through so much and to talk about it now is not the end of it, unfortunately.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because whilst I was fighting off that infection, um what they didn't realise is my bowel had power perforated.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just bleeding all those toxins into my system.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'll be getting well, fight off the infection, I'll go home a couple of hours later, I'll then come back into hospital and I go, Well, what's going on?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just feed him antibiotics, just keep giving them to him.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um the magic pillar, the antibiotic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: The tumour was once the size of a small watermelon.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they were like, right, just get him into surgery to have to have emergency surgery.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know when I I listen to other people's journeys and I think that is so easy.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had one operation, one recovery.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've never had touch wood, I've never had to go to hospital since.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's I think every journey's different, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And how you deal with it and how you've gone through it is going to be so different.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, everyone's journey is like I I'm very similar.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll sit there and be like, oh, this is a cake walk.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because everyone else has gone through so much.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: But then you know, we've been we're undermining what we are going through.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, we could be really positive, put a mask on, put a face on, not talk to people about it, crack on.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, not to be stereotypical, but stiff up a lip, crack on with it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Can I just say that we never stop talking about my street?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're not really never stopped talking.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: I never stop talking about it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm I am quite happy to tell everybody about my storm and quite happy to show everybody my stoma.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this is my journey, this is me.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's just a different toilet routine.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: So what I was gonna ask with this was like do you have you seen as you start started being more um you know outspoken about your conditions, your stories, like have you seen people view you and your journeys in a different way?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see things in a more positive sense in yourself?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think for for me, I always thought cancer only affects older people, yeah, over 50.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so part of what I've tried to do coming out of the other side of it is to really campaign for awareness amongst younger people and the consequences of doctors just not taking it seriously enough to because people will eventually lose their lives, unfortunately, because of it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean some of the work you've done recently with uh like the poster works, all those big the the real campaign away stuff is like mate.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Huge congratulations it's been it's it's the same we all watch each other online, so we all know what's going on.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Watch us online if you're watching people watch us online.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there are ostomists doing some absolutely amazing things out there, men and women.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: 100% incredible.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well that's the that's the power of talking about it, right?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because then more people will be inspired to then have those conversations.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely, definitely.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and you know, if you haven't got somebody to talk to, find us and message us.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: We've talked to you.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean he won't stop talking.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: As you can see, we're in a room, four men in a room, and we want to talk.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to talk to us, there are no boundaries.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: We will talk about anything.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of people.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: There are still a lot of men that that won't talk.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Can we dig into that then?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's your point with that?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So with the hospital where I'm I go, uh we they put on uh every year a like a function, a bit of almost like a get-together.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the stoma nurse gets all people that are newly had stomas, young or old, into this room just so they can see other people that have got ostomates because it always makes you feel a bit more uh relaxed or at ease with it and have conversations with others.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they always get me up to be a guest speaker, and I always offer my help and support and say, Here's my number.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you need to chat, give me a call.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Kig's already there, so yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done three of those events, and there's about 20 to 30 people in the room, all with stomachs.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the the women are a lot more receptive.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: The men just close up, and I've given out my number to probably in total, probably 50 people.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I can see you're struggling, send me a text.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't have to be a phone call, just send me a text, I'll reply to you on text, give you help and support.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just need to blow off some steam, give us a call, send me a text.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know how many people have done that?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Probably less than one.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: None.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not one.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and that's the uh the issue, and that's why we need to be doing these types of podcasts.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: We need men to watch this, and I think they will, uh and just give them that little kick to think I can this is fine, I can I can talk.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we want we want them to do.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what this needs to achieve.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I actually get a lot of messages from people who want to be bus drivers but have gone through storm and surgery.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or people who who are lorry drivers and they saying, I see you driving your bus all the time.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Can I go back to work?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, 100%.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: You can do whatever you like.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: A stormer wouldn't stop you doing anything.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's you that stops you doing anything, not a stormer.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So what if would we say that then?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because even your point there, you've you've done some fantastic talks for people, and you're not getting a lot of it, you know, people contact you, men contact you, specific.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: You get quite a few.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you what are the like what stigmas are still there that you see?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're obviously trying to do what we can.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you still feel there's a stigma around it as a guy?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Without a doubt there is.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just a men it's a man thing, isn't it?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Men don't want to talk about things.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Men don't want to talk about different factors at place.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you you've got the the cultural side of things where you say, you know, we're still in that I guess mindset where we go, you know, men don't cry.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: They just get on the city.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I cry quite hot.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but there are men who wouldn't.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: We should, we should, yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: But there's also an element of fear to go, well, you know, could this lead to bad news and cause me to come away from it all?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And my father never took his health seriously and he suffered greatly after the age of fifty.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, he he's got he had heart issues, kidney issues, it's but he would never see a doctor uh unless he was being carted in the back of an ambulance.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy, isn't it?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he never spoke about his health, and I wish I would have asked him more questions.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but kind of he what he what I saw from him was that you need to take these things seriously.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean during my health issues, he sadly passed away.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a a b big alarm in the back of my head was just going off saying, you know, you need to get this sorted out before it leads to you know, the route that your father went through.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And to see him go through that as well, um that leaves you with an immense amount of trauma and affects your mental health as well.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So by talking about it, by exposing it for what it is, we can then build those bridges and get into a much better place.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's some startling facts when I started looking into this is that uh men have a 37% higher risk of dying from cancer than women.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Four in five suicides are men.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And this is coming from the the local.gov.uk uh website.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And those suicides, most of those are men of under 35 years old.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that that is enough to to just put fear within you, you know, to to really start attacking this and going, well, why is that why is that an issue?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: W why don't we know more about while stopping people?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's the biggest killer, isn't it?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest killer in men is suicide.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well it's just encouraging others to be like, look, all of us have shared our stories, and I'd like to think well I'm very much inspired by all of you guys, like I'll be brutally honest.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd like to think that helps others actually just have that initial conversation to help stop, you know, four out of five men going that way or thinking about going that way.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's the bit for me where like as long as you start having a conversation, we can hopefully help others.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the point, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's what this is all about.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about you know, oh, I'm gonna look differently or people aren't gonna respect me.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's I need help.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's okay to be like that, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with that event that I do, they just see one man standing there talking.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now if I go back next year, I can say, here's a link to all these podcasts of boys in a room talking about it.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I say, I'm just one man that stands up, whereas some men want to see more than that, think, but you're just one guy.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we are not four guys that have grown up together and known each other for hundreds of years.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: We all have world.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm almost that old but we are we are four guys who have met through our stormers and through this wonderful from different walks of life.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, different
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, we can just sit in a room as friends.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: We per we've probably seen each other, met each other personally, what, m four or five years ago at the most.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're sitting in a room just talking about whatever we want to talk about.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Why can't others do it?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Why can't others do this?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well hopefully they'll see and listen to this and then be encouraged to do it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's also others having access to it, isn't it?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why we need to do more things like this, be it podcasts or on social media, to get more people more men to see it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: We need to tap into that audience, if you like, and get them to see it so they can start to feel free to talk about it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we can encourage others to do it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: We can talk about anything.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely anything.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: We do, yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: What do you want to talk about next?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as you say, like how we've talked about supporting others.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: How have you not been supported though?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like how who supported you?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, 100% for me, it's it's my wife more than anyone.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my children, obviously.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I have grown-up children.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: I have one.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: How many fingers have I got?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Ten usually.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: We've got eight grandchildren between us, number nine is on the way.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so yeah, the the children, the grandchildren.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I have a huge family who are supportive.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my wife has been with me through the journey.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she was here today as well.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: And she was here today, yes.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she's been absolutely fantastic.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: And even now, I couldn't do what I do without her.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: No, she can't do it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I really couldn't.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: But we all we all have to realise when we're going on these journeys, it's not just our journey.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: We were talking about it earlier.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's not our journey.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's um it involves your family, it involves your friends, it involves your work colleagues.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: And don't ever be afraid to talk to people.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you talk, start talking to people, you realize how much love and support is out there.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, also, if they don't know that, how can I help?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Who's been who's who's supported you guys then?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it it's no surprise that Rachel is my world and my support, uh, along with Well, I'd always get emotional when I talk about Rachel.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's finding it.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's the point of it, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care if all four of us crying through this.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Have we got any tissues on standby?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I got some in my pocket.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: You you always said about it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've always said it's it's been harder for Rachel than it has me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I lie in a hospital bed in pain.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but at least I'm in hospital bed and there's people looking after me, whereas Rachel has to come and see me, update the family, update friends, look after the kids, run the house, still go to work.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: For her, I have always said it's been harder for Rachel because she has to do so much.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just lie there.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's my role in it, is that I lie there thinking, what surgery I'm gonna have next.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had 20 surgeries in five years.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Rachel was there for every single one.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're still waiting for And I'm still waiting for more surgery.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, main blow.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still waiting for from the last time we saw each other to get together.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still waiting.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And who's there supporting me through all of that?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's always Rachel.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: When I get down, it's it's Rachel that's that's there.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And my kids.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my kids are great.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: My son is incredible.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter's amazing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter's autistic, so she's not always good at the emotion side.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: That just doesn't kind of work in her head.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: But even, you know, I think for the first time in about a year, she gave me a hug a couple of months ago.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like the first time because she doesn't do touch.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_05: Fantastic.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she just came up to me and she saw I was not doing well.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: She just gave me a hug.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was in tears then.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter's hugging me because she doesn't do touch.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was just like an amazing moment.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's really powerful, though.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it is powerful.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that just her giving me that hug was like, I need that.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's got me that's got me going again.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna push on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: What about you, Mo?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Who's supported you through all this?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, you've got quite a journey.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Much like everyone else, my my partner, my wife, she was my rock.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: She was there getting to the hospital, public transport, she doesn't drive, so she'll get a a lift at times, and I was going from one hospital to another to another, and she would just find a way to get to me.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um whilst I was in the hospital, the pastoral care had Father Michael come visit me, I had Imam Rizwan come up as well.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And although, you know, they they're there to represent their religion, but they're also there as human beings just to listen um and provide support.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then coming out of it, you know, my my kids I say are my inspiration.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I spent a lot of time with Macmillan's um psychiatrist who was really helping me through um what I could only kind of think of as like survivor's guilt.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I always thought, you know, why me?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm going through all these changes and it's never-ending and um grieving my past self as well, not able to kind of fully express that um because I didn't really understand it until I met the McMillan uh psychiatrist who helped me kind of piece that together.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a long journey, but that's quite what you said that the family had to go through that as well.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: My kids seeing that, uh my wife and they've been in and out of counselling um for the past few years.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I I struggled to kind of think w what I would end up as without that support network because if my wife wasn't there for that one hour then where would I be now?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if I didn't see my children when I was going through um the rehab.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if I d didn't get signposted to the Macmillan charity you know, I'd probably still be going through it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I do, you know, it comes back and forth, but it's not as intense um as it used to be.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, it's it's finding that support.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, because never in a million years I would have thought I would ask for the pastoral care.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I needed someone to talk to.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they were available and they came up every day just sitting there and listening.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you find a lot of common grounds with with people when you go through this journey and then putting yourself out there on social media and campaigning for for issues that are probably going unsaid or um It's a big space, innit?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a rabbit hole.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um I've gotta I've gotta ask about you and who supported you.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh to be honest, um it's similar to you guys, it's in family, friends, my wife, like gosh, I had my surgery two weeks after I met her.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it was all very much like, look, if you're not interested, because we went on a couple of dates, and I went, I've got a big life event happening in a couple of weeks' time.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're not interested, totally get it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then she was like, she just stuck on.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when like we first met up after having my stoma, the first hospital visit we had.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a big blockage, and like there's one memory, and I said this in my wedding speech, I was like this, my stoma started to explode because it finally started to work properly.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like poops going all in this little bucket, and she's got the bucket going, it's all right.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and I was like, I I think I've got married now.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've literally pooped all over your hands.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like Thanks, babe.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: But like, so like we're fortunate, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there's one thing you were touching on there about social media and people who haven't got that support network.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say to people that may not have the support network we had?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: How would you help them?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: What advice you would offer them?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I would just say that um when I first had my stoma, which was back in 2012, yeah, uh, there wasn't a lot of social media.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And now, social media, personally for me, I think it's absolutely fantastic.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: TikTok Selfie, I've done it.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: TikTok Selfie, yes.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, I won't do it.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: TikTok Selfie! Anyway, she'll kill me for that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, so there is a massive community on social media, mainly Instagram.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's people with stomas, people telling the stories of what they've gone through.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: We know none of us are there giving advice to anybody.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're not medically trained, so we don't give advice.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: What we do is we tell you about our stories, and people, other people can relate to it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that happened to me.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I think the best thing you could really do is find your community.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, find your tribe.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Find your tribe.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: We always talk about our tribe.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: We are a tribe, we are family, find your bag, bros.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we're easy to find.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, come and join us.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think come and join us for me as well to help with this is like it's a man, you're not alone in this.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like when you are looking on social media, it can be overwhelming because there's not there's not a lot of men that are openly talking about it, which is why like you guys here today chatting about it is massive, and that's why we want to encourage more because the market, if you will, is quite dominated by women, right?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not any negative, it's just that's because people aren't doing it, but it's to have the confidence be like, yeah, we may be less like uh represented, I would say, possibly.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, but that's a good one.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about it, that will help others, more people will see it, and then you'll start to have that sort of swing and or that shift from more women talking about it to more men talking about it, so it becomes much more inclusive.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and even then to look at there'll be other people there that come from different cultures, backgrounds, ethnicities, whatever.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: The more people start talking about it, the more open it becomes to everybody else.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really accessible for more people, but it all starts with simply having a conversation.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: That was certainly something that I I didn't see someone like me out there talking about, whether it be cancer or health in general, who has a stoma, and so I've always said, you know, if you're you if you're looking for change, you have to often be the one that creates a change.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not that's can be a difficult step, isn't it?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're the one that's got to make that change.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's fine for some men it it's finding that strength and courage to go and do that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of men will hold themselves back and they would just carry on holding all their guilt and everything else rather than just making that step.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is difficult, there's a sense of vulnerability, isn't it?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you put yourself out there, you you may think of yourself like you're a target, and I I see some of the comments on social media, and some of them can be negative.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Majority of the times they are just positive to go, great, it's wonderful what you're doing, you know, really inspiring.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then you become the example for the next generation.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: There are there are some dangers on social media.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Instagram's really good.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um nearly every comment on Instagram's always a positive comment.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but there are and YouTube's pretty good as well.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the ones that I found are dangerous that some people you know I've so steer them away from.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: But some of the Facebook groups, some on the Facebook groups are awful.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you get people going on there that are new to a stoma and they're making a few, not mistakes, but they're not getting things right, they're getting leaks or whatever.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and people with stomas are giving them a really hard time.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the comments are like, this is awful.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to be supporting each other, and people, you know, being really negative to someone that's only had their stoma in a week and they're saying I'm really struggling with the bag.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they've only had it a week, of course they're struggling.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And people are being negative about that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like the Facebook is is a dangerous place.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram is a lot more positive.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think it's like anything, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're if you're looking only at one source of social media, that's all you'll see.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So if there are people that are on here, like you mainly I say mainly TikTok, I see more of you through.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on it, but you're more used on it.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're kind of spread across a few mediums.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: I try and do everything where I can, just copy-paste videos and hope for the best.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: But it's that sort of thing, like if you're getting negativity, that that shouldn't be your only outlet.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Not outlet, your only source.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Look to Instagram, look for other social medias.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or there's loads of blogs.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: You guys have done some amazing blogs, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: I can honestly I can honestly say that the way social media tends to go, I could put a post out today, I could take a picture of us for, I could put it on so any social media, I could get a thousand-two likes.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: I could I could post it out there and I could get a thousand uh uh positive comments, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Then you will get one negative comment, just one, and then all of a sudden you look at that post and you think, why did I post it?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: But that's not the point.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: You should have posted it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people will go to that post and then delete it because of that one comment.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Don't ever delete.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Delete the comment, move on.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the only advice I can give you with social media.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Delete it, move on.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody persists, block them.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Don't even answer them.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because once you've answered somebody once you've answered a negative comment on social media, you've lost it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: Some people call it out, don't they?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen that shows.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's not for me.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, I'll just ignore it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'd ignore it, block it, and and move on.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: I laughed it now, just like.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, why have it why have you got your bag out again?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, mum, can you stop commenting on this?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's for all this, mum.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Look, guys, thank you so much for talking today.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Really, really appreciate it.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been really empowering and insightful listening to your stories, your views, and all everything that we've discussed today.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: But hopefully this is just the beginning.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: A because we've got more podcasts coming forward, but hopefully it'll be more for other men and other individuals to start talking as well, and we can break down that silence and definitely get them get involved, guys.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: We'll just inspire others, right?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Inspire others, exactly.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: And to like round this all off, and I think we said this a number of times, everyone here and even listening or watching, you're not alone.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the most important thing.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, look, thank you so much, everyone.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for listening to the Beyond the Pouch spin off podcast.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, we'll see you soon.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: See you soon.