Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Translating Competitive Training into a Commercial or Concert Dance Career

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Translating Competitive Training into a Commercial or Concert Dance Career · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: The concert and commercial dance worlds feel very different.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: The styles, the audition scenes, and the content can sometimes be polar opposites.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But in many ways, they're actually really similar.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And today on Making the Impact, we have some incredible IDA judges from both worlds to share their experience.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: Hey everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I am here today with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: Hey everyone, excited to be here.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_04: We are nearing the end of our very first season, and we're obviously really sad about it.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: But I am so happy that you all have been tuning in since our launch in October, and we've hit over 20,000 downloads since we launched in October, which is so exciting and huge.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: So we couldn't have done it without you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you to everyone who's been subscribing.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you to everyone who's been sharing your comments and feedback on our episodes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: We just love hearing from all of you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's really been a blast to make this a reality.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: Be sure to follow us on social media at Impact Dance Adjudicators to stay up to date with all of our new episode releases.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: We have judges tips from our IDA judges every Tuesday.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: And we even launched a new virtual dance competition which has registration now open.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, so be sure to register for that as soon as you can.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Courtney, I just can't believe that we are so close to the end of season one, but we just keep getting these we keep getting these great reviews.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: They just keep coming in.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to read one from 5678 Dance NC.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: This user says, refreshingly honest and so informative.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: What a gem this podcast is, not only for studio owners and teachers, but for dance parents as well.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fabulous resource for anyone and everyone in the competition dance industry.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: An awesome extension of the three-minute critiques competition judges are typically limited to, and gives additional meaningful feedback that everyone can benefit from at every level.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's pretty awesome.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, 5678 Dance NC.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm really excited to be here with two fabulous IDA judges.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: And we are kind of shifting gears this week, and we're kind of going into a discussion a little bit about like what life after competitive dance and discussing the concert world and the commercial dance world.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: So we have two judges who have experience in both of those dance worlds.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: So first up, let's meet Christina Bodhi.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, hello.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, I'm happy to be here.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: Please feel free to share with the world a little bit about who you are, where you're from, any career credits that you want to share, and what you're up to now.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I grew up in Western Canada in Edmonton, Alberta.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Grew up dancing there, did a lot of competitive dance.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's when I fell in love with performing and being on stage.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew I knew that's something I had to do with my life.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up focusing more on ballet in my high school years and went away for professional ballet training at the Roe Winnipeg Ballet School of Canada.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, I was having a lot of trouble with my ankles.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: I had ankle surgery, and I thought, okay, I'm gonna redirect to contemporary dance.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I auditioned for Juilliard and ended up going to Juilliard for four years and got my BFA.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, yeah, at that point, focused a lot on contemporary concert dance.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And from there, I went on to dance in the concert dance world for about 15 years.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Danced for three different companies.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: First one was Caresh Dance Company in Philadelphia.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Then I went on to Les Ballets Jazz de Montreal in Montreal, Canada.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then I came to LA for a job with body traffic.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was great.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I got to tour the world.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I got to just, you know, experience company life as a touring concert dancer.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm still dancing here and there, but I'm focusing more on teaching.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm on dance faculty at LMU, Laloya Marymount University, here in LA.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And also I teach at a private school and some other places around the city.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: So and I'm choreographing as well.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: That is amazing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: You've done so much in your career.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't wait to even hear more about it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_04: So thanks so much for joining us tonight.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for having me.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: All right, and our next IDA judge is Alexis.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, hello, how are you?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: I'm good.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_04: How are you?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so good.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: Please feel free to share with the listeners a little bit about you, who you are, where you're from, and any career credits you want to share.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'm from Denver, Colorado, and I grew up dancing there.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing as Christina.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was uh very much a part of the competitive dance world out there, both in studio and through my high school.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went to college in Colorado as well, at Colorado Mesa University, and graduated with my Bachelor of Arts degree in dance.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then after that, I moved out to Los Angeles to pursue my professional career, and that's where I still am currently.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I guess like my biggest credits would be I dance for Insomniac, which they create all of the EDCs around the world.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the electric daisy carnival.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm a main stage dancer for them.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I travel with them Tokyo, Japan, China, Mexico, Vegas.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I usually do those ones throughout the year for about, I think I've been doing it for about four or five years now.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I also used to dance for Six Flags.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: I've done commercials and music videos with Maroon 5, Shine Down, Disney Channel, Adidas, Ivy Park, Mercedes-Benz, that kind of stuff.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then I am now with the Movement Talent Agency, and they are amazing.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: And they take care of my, I don't know, my career now, essentially, as a commercial dancer in LA.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm so happy to have both of you ladies on here sharing your experiences in both sides of that industry.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's going to be really awesome to hear about it.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks, guys.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited too, because both of you have pretty extensive credits on your side of the world.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to know, not only for myself, but for the listeners, especially maybe some of the parents out there, when I'm going to start asking Alexis, what is your sort of definition right now of what commercial dance is?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because commercial dance has evolved so quickly over the past like 30, 35 years.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's no longer just, I want to be a music video dancer.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much more to do.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what are your um kind of definitive descriptions of what commercial dance is?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're totally right.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Commercial dance has completely evolved from what it used to be.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I get this question a lot from people are like, what's, you know, what is commercial dance?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I think for me, commercial dance is a multitude of things.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: So my agency has me assigned under as a dancer and as an athlete.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm able to book jobs as a dancer in commercials in like a Swiffer commercial, like a gap commercial or old Navy or anything like that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also able to book jobs in music videos as well.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: I also book jobs as an actor, even in like I was just in the new Top Gun movie that's coming out in this summer.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's so many different avenues, and I think that's kind of the beauty of it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: So now I also book with like Dick Sporting Goods as an athlete for like fitness and stuff like that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it has definitely evolved from just being just being a music video dancer, especially in Los Angeles.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: That was absolutely like the number one job out here.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: And now that music videos aren't really like as important, I don't want to say as important, but it's just not really like that valuable.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's not really that many music videos out there anymore.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's really like a lot of my ads and commercials and stuff have even been like social media ads, not even just like TV ads, you know?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_04: Alexis, that is so true about everything in relation to commercial dance in Los Angeles, and even in the sense of that, you know, dancers can move from all over the world to come to Los Angeles, and they have big dreams to become a commercial dancer.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really awesome to know that it's not just in the music video way anymore.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: You can really be a dancer in so many different avenues, like you just mentioned.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_04: So there's opportunity to be in movies, there's opportunity to be on television shows, there's you can be a you can tour with a music artist.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like these are all examples of being a commercial dancer.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: And it doesn't just necessarily mean in Los Angeles, it can also be in New York City or Miami or Atlanta or Chicago.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of other major cities that you can, you know, achieve commercial dance success.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_04: So uh just off the top of my head, because as you were talking about, you know, how music videos aren't really as relevant in our world today in 2020, you know, going backwards and going into my past, I remember when music videos were huge in the world, and I looked up to every single dancer in those music videos and specifically Total Request Live TRL on MTV.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: That was the best thing ever.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: I ran home from school to turn on TRL and you had to like call in and vote.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, a lot of the kids that are listening to this probably have no idea what we're talking about, but if you grew up in the in the like late 90s, early 2000s, you know what TRL is, Carson Daly and all of the like artists with dance on there and Backstreet Boys and InSync, but like those are the music video days, like when MTV was a big thing.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: It was all about the music videos.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, even like the music video awards that still exists, the VMAs, but it's not as a big of a deal as it was 20 years ago, pretty much.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's crazy to think that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and it's so sad too, because I just think of like how many generations of dancers were inspired by music videos, and you know, even going back to the 80s with the beginning of, you know, like when you would have Soul Train or when you would have uh solid gold.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know, you know, people older than us loved the solid gold dancers because that was commercial dance.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only time you could dance like that, besides at a club, you know.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's thinking of like how it has evolved, it's just, you know, it is a little sad just to think that's kind of a bygone era, but at the same time, you know, you do have artists that are still touring and things like you know, Super Bowl halftime show and and big shows like that where a lot of dancers are employed.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So anytime I see that I get really excited.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_04: Me too.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, Christina, I'm really curious since we've sort of covered the commercial dance definition.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a ton of concert dance experience.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to hear kind of how your journey, you know, was from Juilliard through now.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: What does concert dance mean to you and how has it evolved for you?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so concert dance usually involves live performance and usually involves dancing for a concert dance company, whether it's, you know, a year-long contract or it's more of a freelance style, you know, certain amount of weeks with a company for a certain performance.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I did a lot of year-long contracts.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I was with three companies in the course of 15 years.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I stayed with, you know, each company for quite a while.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be either the situation of a rep company, a repertoire company, where you are dancing for a company that hires multiple choreographers to come in and set works, and then you perform those works in any given evening, you might have three, three works.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And or there are also concert dance companies that solely perform the work of one choreographer, which is usually the director of that company.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I also associate concert dance with touring.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Most likely you're gonna tour if you're a concert dancer, because that's how concert dance companies make their money.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and it's an incredible experience as a dancer to get to tour the world.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Slightly different from maybe touring with a music artist, you know, being a backup dancer in the commercial world, but normally it's you know a smaller troupe, a lot of theaters all over Europe, because concert dance in Europe is really big there.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Having said that, though, these days there's so many concert dance companies in the United States and even LA, a city that used to be really be associated with, you know, commercial dance and music videos and all that stuff.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say in the last 10 years, especially the last five years, there's been a lot of concert dance uh popping up in LA.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the reason I came here, actually.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of my general description of it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's great.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: I was just gonna say that something that kind of immediately triggered for me when you were kind of just giving that description of what a concert dancer is or what a concert dance contract is like, I just think of longevity and security because especially comparing to the commercial world, and this is something that we can kind of discuss a little bit more.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like Christina that you had the opportunity to stay with a company for multiple years and you were on a contract for a year at a time.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, that doesn't exist much in this industry in all different.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, unless you're on Broadway or unless you're in a concert dance company, then that's probably the only two, or unless you're, you know, a dance teacher or you know, not a we're speaking in the performing world right now.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's really interesting because I think that's another big huge thing that people should know as far as which direction they want to go, because commercial work is very sporadic, it's inconsistent, and if you're lucky, you could be working a lot, but at the same time, you might get one big job that pays your bills for a long time, but you only worked for a few days, and that's just what it is.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas concert work, you're committed to a company for a year-long contract, like you mentioned, or there's other situations, but you know, for your situation, it was a year-long contract.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: You are stuck with this company, you're gonna travel, you're gonna tour, you're gonna get it paid every week.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: And that sounds exciting because getting a paycheck every week as a dancer is that would be amazing.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's very interesting to kind of hear that, you know, perspective from the concert dance world because it's very different than the commercial world.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a really good point you made about kind of knowing yourself and knowing your personality type.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm someone and I've always been this way that likes structure.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I like routine, I like structure.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Having said that, there's still some hustling that has to happen even when you're a concert dancer, because you know, you're not paid every week of the year.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we're still doing outside gigs on our weeks off or months off in the summer, for example.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: But overall, there's much more structure, and I knew that I wanted that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Throughout the course of my career, I did a little bit of commercial work on the side for fun, like on these summers off and stuff.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking, wow, this is this is real.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: These auditions, like, it's a hustle.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And there is that element in concert dance, but I felt like there's, like you said, a little bit more stability and just the knowing of what you know, you had your touring schedule for the year.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you could kind of plan your life.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think another big difference that I think we should mention for listeners is in the concert dance world, the ones that I'm aware of, I have a very good friend that was in Giordano uh Jazz Dance Theater for many years.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: That company has 10 people in it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the same 10 people until somebody got old and tired or had a you know terrible injury and had to leave.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: These are not, in my experience, they're not, there's not a lot of turnover.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that true for your experience?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes and no.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, Les Ballets Jazz in Montreal was the company that I was with for the longest.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was there for eight years.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: And within that eight years, there were waves, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: But there's definitely like there's a, you know, the first wave, then got a few new dancers, second wave, couple left.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: But on the most part, yes, you definitely have several years with most of these people.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there's this bond that forms that's, you know, you're a unit.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: You really are.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think that something that's kind of interesting, just talking about this, is I've just been kind of sitting here, like as a I wouldn't consider myself a concert dancer or a commercial dancer.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just, me and Leslie both live in New York City.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: We pursued a New York City career, whereas both of our guests are pursuing Los Angeles careers at the moment.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just kind of sitting here like, where does Broadway fit into this?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: Because I don't really consider Broadway like commercial dance, but I don't consider it concert dance.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, where does a Broadway musical fit in?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: And it's kind of feels almost like a blend of both in a weird way.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you do get a Broadway contract or if you do get a Broadway touring contract, then it is that security and it is that the same, the structure.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like what you were mentioning, Christina, it is very much that structure.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: I know people who have been in Lion King for over 10 years on Broadway and Chicago and so many shows that are on Broadway, people stay there for a long time.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: They like the security, they like the paycheck, they like the fact that they have a job and they don't have to hustle on, they don't have to find one.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: And once you're in, a lot of times you're in.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a really great thing to know as well is if dancers want to go in the direction of New York City and Broadway musicals, there is still some security.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's just a matter of like getting in the door and actually getting that opportunity because it's really hard to get in.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I have a lot of friends that did concert dance for many years and then transitioned into a Broadway show or another big one is Cirque du Soleil.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: I have so many friends dancing there because also great security.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in all transparency, you're gonna get a bit better paycheck dancing Broadway than concert dance.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: It is what it is.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a different experience, but yeah, I know it's a very good point.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's another like they all kind of like they're all very close, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: These worlds kind of blend together.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I've done a couple Broadway auditions, even as a concert dancer, and you know, so there's some crossover there for sure.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and thinking about too, like, I want to start thinking about like the kind of training you would want to pursue dependent on which way you would want to go.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: What was your training like, Alexis, when you were growing up?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: My training was it was a lot of jazz, to be honest with you.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: When I was in my studio growing up, it was a lot of jazz, a lot of tap.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I went to college, it was more on the ballet side.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: My main professor was a Radio City Rocket for many years.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: So she had a lot of like classic jazz, a lot of tab experience, and then she also had a lot of ballet experience as well.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that was really great to be able to learn under her for four years, and then so I kind of took what I learned from her to LA, and then LA is very different because it's a lot of hip hop training out here, which I don't really have a whole lot of.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, like when I go to like a hip-hop audition, I like stick out of the sore throat because I don't it's just not my my body type, like I always hear it slow.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I would say for me for commercially out here, my background in ballet and jazz has really helped because a lot of dancers in the auditions that I go to don't really have a whole lot of that training.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: They have a lot more of hip-hop training.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And even I like out here, heels is extremely popular and those are the new classes and everything.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I take a Heels class, I feel like I feel like the choreographer is more drawn to me as a dancer because I do have so much like jazz training and ballet training that I can create specific lines that they're looking for in their pictures and in their choreography, whereas someone who doesn't have a whole lot of ballet training doesn't know how to create those lines.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where I've actually found a lot of success in is more of like the heels choreography out here recently, which is really nice.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I'm a little different as a of a dancer out here because a lot of the dancers have way more hip-hop training than I do, but it's actually has helped me in that way because of the training I do have has helped me get different jobs and kind of like stick out in a different way.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome to hear because you know, everybody, everybody's is always saying, you know, take everything, be versatile.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, but also know who you are and know what makes you stand out.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, that technical background for you does make you stand out among people who have more of a street style and maybe more of a self-taught kind of a background, which both are both are important, both are valid, and both have different, you know, benefits.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really cool.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's all good.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just thinking of like the commercial dance world and like I and who I know that's out there and who has you know picked LA over New York as far as deciding like where to go, which is a another topic that we want to talk about one day.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, a lot of people associate LA with the commercial dance world.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I have a handful of friends in the industry who have picked LA, and they all are actually technical dancers who grew up in the competitive dance world.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: They're not just street hip-hop dancers.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: I think that it definitely, like you said, Alexis, it kind of gravitates more towards that hip-hop style in LA.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: But like, like you said, I know a lot of friends who have worked on many television shows, who have worked on many with artists and on um music festivals and different types of things like that, where they want to hire like a specialty contemporary dancer.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: Or like, even like there's a lot of contemporary dance on television right now.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: There's a I think that obviously technical dancers know how to take direction really well because they've been in the competitive dance world their whole life.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: So they've learned a million trillion routines and competed them.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: On stage and you know, things like that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, all of those things with experience as a competitive dancer is going to help translate over regardless of which cur which you know route you choose to go in the dance world.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think really quick, I think that is a huge point because when I first signed on with Insomniac about four years ago, they it was like my very first audition for them, and they signed me directly onto a main stage, which is like obviously like a little bit of a a higher contract than a regular dancer.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so really what they said was the reason why they signed those specific dancers.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: They only signed like eight of us onto Mainstage, and they kept us, they've kept us around like those same eight dancers for the past four years for their festivals.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: And they said that they signed us because we do have so much dance background that they could trust us changing our costumes best and getting on stage quickly and not and basically like having the toughness to be able to change and do all new makeup and get back on stage within like 15 minutes in between like our sets.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So like that was like having that background for so long was actually what got me that job and has kept me on that job for four years.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Something that we got we brought up like really briefly, Alexis.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: You were talking about earlier that you are signed with an agent.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a thing, Christina, in the concert world?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are there agents for concert dancers?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Not really, no.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I signed with an agency in Montreal briefly for my side commercial work when I was gonna, you know, when I had these long summers off and stuff.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of concert dance, it's not really like that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's really word of mouth.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes there are formal auditions, but all three jobs, all three companies that I danced for was a very informal.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I asked if I could take class with the company on stage if they were in town performing, or I would go to their, you know, I traveled to go take class and learn some repertoire like at the lunch break.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was very informal and it was about the relationships that we had.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, a lot of it's such a small, especially the concert dance world, it's such a small world.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, a lot of my colleagues that I graduated with, like, for example, were already dancing with one of the companies that I wanted to dance for.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: So then they asked the director, they put us in touch and asked if I could come take class.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not so much like you have an agent like sending you out on things, it's really who you know, staying connected.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't know anyone in that company, literally emailing the rehearsal director on their website or the director and saying, I'd love to take class.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Can I take class with the company when you're here or can I come take class?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really like that, yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then the connections, you know, a lot of really helped the connections I made in college, like my teachers and also the choreographers that came in to work with us at Juilliard that weren't just our regular teachers but came in and set pieces on us.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's how a lot of us got jobs too, right?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's a little bit more um, you know, on the DL.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I just think that that goes to show that, you know, we talk about this all the time on the podcast, networking and who you know, and be kind to everybody you come across because one day you may need them to recommend you to a rehearsal director, or one day you may need, you know, a little push in the right direction to get an audition.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you gotta you gotta be good to the people around you, even if they're your competition.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's so true.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's so true.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And even, you know, after being in a company for several years and then being at the point where the director was asking me, like, what do you think of this person?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Have you worked with them before?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so I was on the other end too, and having to say, well, if I'm gonna vouch for this person with my boss, I have to make sure like I feel really good about it and have have we had, you know, positive professional experiences in the past.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a big part of me.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna even just relate what you just said and referring people over to IDA, and that's exactly how my entire company got started was I was judging for dance competitions, dance competitions trusted me and said, Hey, Courtney, do you have any friends that would be awesome judges that you can recommend?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: We're looking for more.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then I gave my friends jobs, but I had to make sure that I picked the right friends to give the jobs to that I trusted and knew that they would do a good job because my name was on the line.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it really is that in this industry is all about networking and who you know, like Leslie just said.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, you know, you have to make sure that you always have make a good first impression and that people will call your references and people will ask who, hey, do you know this person?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: What are they like?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: Are they professional?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: Are they reliable?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: Are they gonna show up on time?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's really what what I do when we screen judges for IDA, to be completely honest.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: I've never even met Christina or Alexis in person before, before I even brought them onto the IDA roster.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: But I I checked their credentials, I trusted them, I could tell they were legitimate.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: I talked to people that knew them and said, hey, how are these people?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's really how this industry works.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's a very small, tight-knit community in the dance world, and even smaller when you group it into the concert dance world and the Broadway dance world and the commercial dance world.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really important to make good impressions, but networking is is so huge.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I love hearing what you said, Christina, about how the connections that you established while at school.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it doesn't even, you know, of course you went to Juilliard, it's very prestigious school.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody knows what it is, and you know, it has like a very great education and also a great name for itself in the industry.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of concert and a lot of concert companies are going to know of Juilliard.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: And just because, you know, if if you're a dancer listening and you aren't at Juilliard, that doesn't mean that you're not going to also make connections at the school that you're at and see where that network takes you.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: So many colleges everywhere have guest choreographers come in and work with the dancers in their departments, and that is a perfect opportunity for you to establish that first connection and take you to the next step into the real world.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's really great that you brought that up.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there are so many great dance departments out there, you know, dance programs.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a huge point is to like take every little process it's at school, even though you're still a student seriously, because you will be working with people in the school situation that you will see in the professional world.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just connected like that.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: So and same in the competitive dance world.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's another thing.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like we can tie this back in because I know we're talking about like life after a competition dance, but all your friends that you've met at dance competitions, maybe you met them at summer intensives, maybe you competed against them at nationals.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: You are going to see them again in the professional world if that's the path that you choose to go.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: I remember, and I'm just throwing this random name out here, but I remember competing next to Teddy Forence at American Dance Awards when I was 11 years old at nationals, and now he's a superstar.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: Every we all look up to him.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: We love Teddy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like, it's so, you know, and now I'm 31 and I was 11.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, never in a million years would I think that I would still remember that name.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I saw him dance and I was like, wow, what an amazing dancer.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, he had a beautiful career in dance, but you know, it's things like that where you never know who's gonna you're gonna see again, and you want to make sure that you stay nice to everybody and keep those connections going because they're all of these dancers are gonna stay with you if if that's the path that you know people choose to go, you know, post-competition world.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, just a case in point, we just had our senior spotlight feature episode last week, and all three of those girls who won and who were interviewed all friend at each other on Instagram, are all connected now.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're from completely different places, they've never met each other, they never even met each other on the podcast, but they now they're friends, now they're connected because of you know this one thing that they did together, which I just love it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just love our dance community.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um something that I feel like is worth mentioning since we were kind of talking about the college route for a minute, is like in the past 15 years, college dance has completely evolved and in the sense that there are now majors that specialize in commercial dance.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: You can go to school to be a commercial dancer.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: That really didn't exist 15 years ago.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think that it was a very limited in the sense of, okay, I grew up dancing my whole life, I know I love dance, and I am good at it, so I'm gonna go to school for it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, what are my options?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, it kind of looks like everything's only concert conservatory style dance at college.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: What if that's not the route that I want to go?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: Well, guess what?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: Now you have options.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_04: In 2020, year 2020, we finally evolved, and some of the colleges have kind of got the hint and they were like, yeah, maybe not everybody's gonna go that concert dance route, which is okay.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: You don't have to, and we're also not saying that if you do go to a college that does specialize or, you know, focuses on modern or ballet, you can still have a commercial dance career with that degree and going to that school.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's really exciting that there are more opportunities.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_04: I know like Leslie went to OCU, which is very much kind of focused on pursuing a Broadway-style musical theater career.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's Pace that has a commercial dance program.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then Christina, does the school that you teach at in California, LMU, Lola Marymount, what are they, what is their kind of focus?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'd say a lot of our dancers that graduate are going on to try to have contemporary concert dance careers, but the program offers, you know, tons of jazz classes.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's like a huge uh mix of classes in there, but I'd say the majority of the graduating dancers are pursuing contemporary careers.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Having said that, a lot of them, since we are in LA, are also choosing the commercial route.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say actually, now I think about it, I'd say it's about half and half with the graduating seniors, what they're pursuing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: It helps that they're also in LA already for all the commercial auditions and everything.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, but you know, USC now is is this amazing school and it's really it's got an incredible dance program now, and it's fairly new, so that's a huge draw too for a lot of college uh students, dance students.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think now that we're kind of on the on the college train, um and and since we had like our last episode about seniors, hopefully we've got some more seniors listening and you know, up and coming dancers who want to pursue dance professionally.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's some advice that you guys can give dancers who are thinking, you know, maybe thinking, which way am I gonna choose?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your best advice for somebody who's headed into commercial dance world versus somebody's headed into the contemporary dance world?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: I would say for me, one of the biggest learning curves, there's two coming from because I mean, I would say coming growing up and going to college, it was all stage training, I would say, like learning how to dance on stage in front of a huge audience.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: I would say becoming more of a commercial dancer for me was learning how to dance on camera, which is huge, and that's not something I learned in college.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: That wasn't like a class or even really even a thing at the time.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's been almost like these past maybe like three years or so, two or three years here in LA, that has been like a crash course training for me personally, and I I think younger dancers are so lucky to be in class with cameras.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I know a lot of people have different like perspectives on that, but I think they're really lucky to be able to learn how to dance on camera so early.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I had that advantage because I'm now like already in my career and learning how to dance on camera because I've only learned how to dance on stage, and it's just so different, like knowing where the camera is, knowing your angles on the camera.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I think the biggest thing for me was like seeing the camera directly in front of me and not forgetting the paragraph or not freezing, like all of a sudden, like you can't see yourself in the mirror because the camera's directly in front of you, and you're like, okay, yeah, succeeding, no.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I think for me that was one of the biggest learning curves.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then the other thing was learn knowing your look, knowing what your look is, knowing what works for you.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: For so long, I had like brown hair with blonde highlights in it, and it was just as a commercial dancer, it just that just doesn't work.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: You have to at least have you have to know your hair color, you have to know your body type, you have to know your like if you look at ethnic ethnic or if you don't look ethnic, it's just like it's so interesting and different out here, and especially with like auditions, like huge auditions, they like split you up into hair color, they split you up into ethnicity, they split you up into height, and then and then you wow wow.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's crazy.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's not like that in New York.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I almost I almost wish it was just all the short people over there.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: I've been in a few of those auditions where it's like, oh, these are all the short people.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I'm here.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh, I know all of these cells.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: These are my popular.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's so interesting.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's also such valid points.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: And that's something I struggled with too, even when I moved to New York.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_04: And something that your dance teachers don't tell you or teach you, and they kind of can't, is like casting and what that is, because you have to really know who you are as a person, like we briefly talked about before.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: You have to know what your strengths are, you need to know what genres you excel at, you need to know what your look is, you need to know, you need to kind of like cast yourself and say, Oh, I'm not right for that.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm perfect for that.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna go for this one, you know.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like you really have to kind of figure that out for yourself.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: And then a lot of the times the jobs come down to if you fit the costume or if you fit the look that they're looking for.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: And it doesn't matter how talented you are, it doesn't matter how many double quadruple leg catch turns and fuetys you've done and dropped into a split and did an aerial.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody can do that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: Now it's coming down to do you look good enough?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: Do is this the look that they wanted?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: And unfortunately, that's the sad truth of this industry, and it's it's really kind of hard to, you know, swallow at first, especially like newcomers into the dance world, you can get discouraged because you're like, but I wasn't the best one.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, yeah, everybody knows you were the best one, but you know, you were too short, or your hair was too curly, or whatever it is, you know, it's there's always a reason.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: So it's very interesting to hear that.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure in LA that's even more, you know, real out there.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it it's definitely real in New York like that too, but you know, I think it just is definitely different.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like I could be wrong, Christina, but like I feel like that probably isn't as much of a a factor in casting company work as far as like your look goes.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: Is that true?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely not as much.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: I did have one director say to me, I'm looking for another tall female dancer, because my, you know, my current tall female dancer left.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: So there was one circumstance like that, but definitely not as much.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think for contemporary companies or concert dance companies, they're really interested in seeing what you have to bring to the table.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so kind of like Alexis said of like knowing yourself and what your strengths are or what you have to bring to the table.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think the mistake I made in my early years, especially because I had been in ballet school right before, I was just trying to replicate.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was just trying to do exactly what I was told to replicate.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in contemporary dance, often the choreographers, their creation process is like a it's a collaborative process.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna be like, they're gonna give you a task and say, improvise off this.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then what you do there might end up in the piece.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you can kind of like within the constraints of the choreography and the structure of the choreography, do what they're asking you to do, but also bring out your own strengths, often they'll play off of that.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're gonna have a better end product.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I learned that as the years went on to just kind of like show the choreographer more of what I had to bring, and that way they would actually choreograph around that.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: That was huge for me.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was just trying to replicate everyone else at the beginning.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, it's such a collaboration that, especially in concert dance, that I think that that was a really important thing.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, Leslie, you're talking about what advice you give in terms of preparing and training.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the reality is no matter what the contemporary or concert dance company is, you're going to still probably audition with a ballet class.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: It just always is that way.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you will get to learn repertoire after, hopefully, but you're gonna start with a ballet class.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: You always have to keep your ballet strong, even if the company is really not that balletic.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we say that all the time.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like versatility.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: But versatility is so important.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I cherish those years I started off doing tap, jazz, all that stuff.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: It gave me my musicality.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's helped me so many times.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like when a choreographer comes in to do a piece, it's a little bit more jazzy, and like I have that background.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really helped me there.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And just like I've always tried to be a sponge.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was chuckling, Alexis, when you're talking about hip-hop, because like I've tried, I'm tall and likely.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: My body to the distance.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I I've tried to stay open to everything because you'd be surprised.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Even um at Le Bata Jazz, we had like a hip-hop choreographer come in and and choreograph like a like a final bow for the end of our season.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we had to try to like learn how to pop and lock.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like a bunch of contemporary dancers.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's never like like honestly, the versatility thing is huge.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Knowing your strengths, but then also being open to taking in as much information in as many different styles as you can.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I the other thing I was gonna say, sort of go on for too long about this, but I'm passionate about it because these are all the things that I would like to go back and tell my former self.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I had gotten more comfortable.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wish I had gotten more comfortable with improvising.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it's it's taught way more now than it was when I was a student, but it is really a big part of, like I said, choreographers come in and they'll they'll watch you improvise.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how they create their piece half the time.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: So and that is even that is real in all worlds of the industry.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: I know that like random, like just when you said improv at an audition, something that just triggered for me was the most recent West Side Story revival, if we want to call it that, but the one that was on Broadway like for a minute, but now you know Broadway shut down.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: That has a concert dance choreographer attached to it.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: It is not drone robins, it is concert dance west side story.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: And the first part of the audition is you need to show me your business card, is what the choreographer said.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that's how she described it.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: She said, Show me your best you.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_04: You can improv in any style that you want.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't have to be concert contemporary dance, it can be jazz, it can be Latin, it can be whatever you're good at, but show me your best you.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_04: And that is how people get to know you right off the bat.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to figure out how am I gonna impress this person, you know, and get make it to the next round.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, improv is such a big, a big part of this industry.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think, like you said, Christina, so many dance competitions are offering improv challenges now at their events, which is really awesome because it's just more preparation for the real world, to be completely honest.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you're always gonna be asked to freestyle at the end of a combination at any audition you go to.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Even before, even before the choreography that you just learned.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I so many times when I'm in a class out here, the choreographer will say, Please do not just stand there before the combo starts.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Please do something.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, like most of our classes out here are filmed professionally, and so that's kind of the thing is to find the camera and do like do like what you want to be known for in front of the camera before the combo starts, because that's how you're gonna pull away from everybody else immediately.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Man, guys, I just have to say I'm glad I retired before number one, that West Side Story audition, because no.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and two, I am one of those dancers that I'm very, very good at replicating exactly what you've asked me to do.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, those were the jobs that I got hired on where that's all they asked of you.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And as sad as that is, I think for me, but great for probably everybody else, like that's not really what dance is anymore.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is so much less do exactly what Bob Fotse asked you to do, or else, you know, get slapped in the face because it was Bob Fosse.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so much more collaborative improvisation, you know, just creative as a team.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And while that is beautiful, I'm glad that I was in that part of just, you know, step and repeat.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I agree.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think this discussion has been so wonderful and so inspiring and so helpful, I think, in all ways.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think that so many people can really listen to this and have a better understanding as to like different paths that you can take out after competitive dance world.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: And we all seem to kind of grow up in that industry in some way.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really inspiring to hear everybody's stories and experience.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: So just to kind of sadly we're at we're at the time to wrap up this beautiful episode because we've been chatting for a long time, but we could chat for so much longer, I'm sure.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_04: But do either of you have, if you'd like to just give us a little sign-off in in any way, any final thoughts or advice on your commercial or concert dance topics.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I guess like my biggest thing is like anyone who's interested in the commercial dance world, I think I think you should just be very open to learning different different avenues that work best for you.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think you should be open to trying new things.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, I don't think you should be discouraged because it's it's pretty crazy.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: And like I think being out here now for five years.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely have seen like where I started, and I feel like, oh wow, she's looked like a very like small town girl when she like started out here.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: And now I think you know, I feel like I'm on my way to knowing what look what works best for me, what dance style works best for me.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Even networking out here is also just as huge as the concert dance world, and that that goes along with like taking specific classes with specific choreographers.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's even like crazy.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like I take dance classes from choreographers that have like the same body type as I do because I know that they will be drawn to me and the way I dance because we have the same body type.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then from there on out they could choose me to work with them in their future as a choreographer.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: So even like being very strategic on even what classes you take out here is really, really smart, and it's something that I've learned.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, I'm a huge advocate of uh learning how to dance on camera.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was a huge, huge, huge learning curve for me, and it's so important, I think.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, out here it is specifically.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's great.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: I would also kind of going off what Alexis said, say to really be open, remain open.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have it in your mind that there's a specific concert dance company that you've always wanted to dance for and you're gonna audition for that company, for me, it was Les Ballet Jazz.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I grew up in Canada and it was just my favorite company to watch growing up.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: If that job doesn't come right away, just you know, audition for as many companies as you can.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we went on like audition tours, went to Europe and stayed with people we knew and just auditioned, auditioned, auditioned, because that gets better too.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: But then also being persistent, you know, I like I was saying with concert dance, sometimes it's very informal.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I remember asking the director of ballet jazz, can I come?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I came.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Then I asked another time, I came a second time after the third time that he finally hired me.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: So to not give up, to be really persistent, but also stay really open because maybe you're attached to one job, but then you get another job that ends up being the stepping stone to that job you really wanted that you'd get five years down the road.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because that was kind of how it always works for me.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just be and be a sponge.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Soak up everything you can from everyone in this world because it's a small community, and always, as we said, be professional because it really goes a long way.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about concert and commercial dance.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: If you'd like to follow our guests, you can find Alexis at underscore Alexis Evans and Christina at XTina Bodie on Instagram.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to head over to Apple Podcasts now to rate us and leave us a fabulous review.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: We love hearing from all of you listeners, and we may even share your review live on the air in an upcoming episode.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Hey dancers! Have you heard about IDA's new virtual dance competition?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: Open a solo list group group.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: Our online-only event takes place right from the comfort of your home.
• 46:58
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• 47:03
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• 47:16
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• 47:17
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• 47:23
  SPEAKER_04: We can't wait to see you on the virtual stage.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're coming up on the last few episodes of Making the Impact.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Next up, we have the live QA with Courtney and Leslie that we recorded earlier in the month, and our season one wrap up episode.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Spotify so you don't miss out.