Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E 373: Binge Drinking, Childhood Pain & the Story Beneath the Behavior: Guest Colleen Clifford

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E 373: Binge Drinking, Childhood Pain & the Story Beneath the Behavior: Guest Colleen Clifford · Adult Child of Dysfunction

• 0:00
  good morning, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.
• 0:03
  Today, we have with us a very special guest.
• 0:06
  Her name is Colleen Clifford, and she is the author of the book Life Beyond the Binge: A Commercial Fisherwoman's Journey Home.
• 0:14
  I'm excited to hear about this, first of all 'cause my husband's- a fisherman, so I was like- Yes what do I have to get myself into here?"
• 0:19
  But welcome, Colleen.
• 0:21
  Thank you.
• 0:22
  I appreciate your flexibility with that.
• 0:24
  I had to chuckle because anyone in the fishing world knows that there's really no start and end date that you can guarantee because, it's fishing.
• 0:32
  So I think we had to reschedule this, and so I really appreciate that, thank you.
• 0:36
  Yeah, no problem.
• 0:37
  I'm flexible anyway.
• 0:38
  The other guy, yeah, yesterday's guy, we recorded at 9:00 at night 'cause he had to take his son to the dentist, so I'm like- Oh I'm all good.
• 0:45
  It's, I'm very flexible.
• 0:47
  So I'm just gonna jump right in.
• 0:48
  Okay.
• 0:48
  First of all, I'm gonna ask you about your fishing real quick, and we'll just touch- Okay on that because my husband is a fisherman, so I wanna know what you did as a fisherwoman.
• 0:55
  Oh.
• 0:55
  Okay, I still fish.
• 0:56
  And I work for a corporation, so it's a large ship, honestly.
• 1:00
  It's not a boat.
• 1:01
  I call it a boat, but it's a huge ship.
• 1:03
  It's a factory trawler.
• 1:04
  We're off the coast Bering Sea near Alaska.
• 1:07
  Oof.
• 1:07
  So we're on the other side of the country, right?
• 1:09
  You're over on the east coast?
• 1:10
  I'm in Florida.
• 1:11
  Yes.
• 1:11
  Okay, so yeah, you're on the other side of the country.
• 1:13
  So probably warm water.
• 1:15
  We're cold water.
• 1:16
  Very cold up there.
• 1:17
  I just got off my contract.
• 1:19
  I'm a chef on the boat, and they're still out fishing.
• 1:22
  I have five weeks home.
• 1:23
  Yay.
• 1:25
  I got my land legs back after a week, and I go back out probably in four weeks for just a month.
• 1:31
  Okay.
• 1:32
  Yeah.
• 1:32
  So what do you fish for?
• 1:34
  We fish for pollock.
• 1:34
  It's, Okay and it's huge quantity fishing, so it's not like with a pole.
• 1:38
  It's with a net.
• 1:40
  And our pollock product goes to all different sources.
• 1:44
  Some fast food restaurants use it for fish sandwiches if they're a decent size.
• 1:48
  We make fertilizer with it.
• 1:50
  We send it to imitation crab.
• 1:53
  There's lots of uses for pollock, okay.
• 1:55
  Perfect.
• 1:55
  Yeah.
• 1:55
  I was just curious when you said Bering Strait, I'm picturing the Deadliest Catch.
• 1:58
  I'm picturing- Yeah you hanging over with one of those big 600-pound nets, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm glad you're here, the ship."
• 2:04
  Oh.
• 2:05
  Yeah.
• 2:05
  Thank you.
• 2:06
  I did that once, and that was enough for me.
• 2:08
  Yeah, it's enough for me just to watch it.
• 2:11
  But anyway.
• 2:11
  Yes.
• 2:12
  But welcome.
• 2:12
  I do wanna say welcome.
• 2:13
  Yeah.
• 2:14
  And I wanna jump into your book because I honestly, most of the people that are listening to this are adult children of alcoholics/dysfunctional families, so a lot of addiction, a lot of those type topics, a lot of dysfunction.
• 2:30
  I've never had anybody come on and talk about binge drinking.
• 2:34
  It just kinda shocked me.
• 2:35
  I was like, wow, I'd never had anybody even, use the word term in 360 episodes, but- Oh, wow.
• 2:40
  Gosh.
• 2:41
  Yeah.
• 2:41
  I think they, it, they, some people may call it gray area drinking, but for me that's still floaty.
• 2:48
  Binge drinking is what it is.
• 2:50
  It's, we call it partying, and maybe that's why people don't really associate it with having a alcohol use disorder or, because there's a lot of ways you can deny binge drinking as being a thing, and that's the story
• 3:03
  of my life.
• 3:04
  Because I am a former binge drinker, and I'm in my, later years in life.
• 3:10
  So for many years I could talk away any problem And I call it the 95/5 factor in my book because meaning for 95% of my drinking experience, I- it wasn't a problem.
• 3:25
  I- you can party, y- you meaning anyone, myself and not have a problem, right?
• 3:31
  Three beers, go home, maybe have a headache the next day, but nothing happens.
• 3:36
  And I'm talking about when the three accidentally turns to six or seven.
• 3:40
  We read about it all the time, kids that get in a accident when they're partying.
• 3:45
  That's called binge drinking, and it only takes one time of not planning your drinking, having a binge, and maybe your life's completely destroyed from that moment.
• 3:57
  Oh, yeah.
• 3:58
  And it's, yeah, and it's those decisions when obviously you're seven beers in, eight drinks in, that you are not thinking obviously from the logical side of your mind.
• 4:06
  You're literally thinking from an almost blacked out side of your brain.
• 4:11
  And I used to say that, and I cringe now thinking about me saying it, but I was, I would say, "I will not drive if I have one or two, but if I have eight or nine, I'm fine."
• 4:24
  Yeah.
• 4:25
  And that's the 5% I'm talking about.
• 4:28
  Because within that, so when you're at a party, like you just said, if you have one or two, and it's okay, you're not drunk, right?
• 4:35
  You think, but you are really over the limit probably.
• 4:39
  But the eight or nine, for a lot of people, that's normal at a party.
• 4:43
  It was for me.
• 4:44
  I probably could have drank eight beers.
• 4:46
  And that, that could be okay too, right?
• 4:48
  Maybe you don't drive home drunk, and you wake up with a massive hangover a- and might think to yourself, "Wow, I overdid it yesterday.
• 4:55
  I'm gonna slow down," right?
• 4:56
  That's what the story everyone, a lot of people say.
• 4:59
  But I'm talking about what if you did drive home drunk after the eight or nine when you swore you never would, 'cause when you're drinking, you still make i- irrational decisions, and you end up killing someone or yourself,
• 5:10
  and that's the dangerous part of evaluating our drinking, is it worth it?
• 5:18
  And for me, the last instance of having a binge where I did drive home drunk, by the way i thought that partying side of me was over years ago.
• 5:28
  I'm in my 60s for crying out loud, right?
• 5:31
  And I still drove home drunk.
• 5:32
  So I realized the next day, and I'm ashamed of that.
• 5:36
  I'm doing my penance for Mothers Against Drunk Drivers and what have you.
• 5:40
  I was scared straight I didn't hit rock bottom because I had no repercussions, but I realized for myself- That in order to never do anything again that could totally disrupt my life or someone else's, I had to just
• 5:55
  eliminate alcohol.
• 5:57
  Because there's no guarantee in that 5% of partying that something's gonna go sideways.
• 6:03
  Or not go sideways, so if you look at the technical definition, they say binge drinking is just more than four in two hours.
• 6:10
  I think that's what they kinda classify binge drinking as.
• 6:13
  That's easy to do if you're at a party.
• 6:15
  That's easy to do if you're at a college dorm and you're just...- easy to do.
• 6:20
  Exactly.
• 6:20
  And so what kinda differentiates in your mind the difference between, like, how did you know, "Okay, this could potentially be a problem if I keep doing this, and so it has to be a non-negotiable for me to not
• 6:34
  hurt someone"?
• 6:36
  It's because over my years of drinking, I've, in the back of my mind, when I did party or something happened that, maybe I wasn't proud of, I would think, "Do I have a problem?"
• 6:47
  And then I'd push it aside because I would say, "I don't drink every day."
• 6:50
  I had all these rationalizations for why it wasn't a problem.
• 6:54
  I'd contact my friends.
• 6:55
  They'd say, "Oh, you don't drink that much.
• 6:57
  You just didn't eat."
• 6:58
  All these excuses.
• 6:59
  So what finally pushed me into the moment of, "This needs to stop forever," was when I went to this last party, as an adult now, five years ago, and I was only gonna have a few beers.
• 7:12
  I got there.
• 7:13
  The, it crept in, which it can, right?
• 7:15
  You only plan for two, but you end up having six.
• 7:18
  And I irrationally thought I was okay to drive, 'cause, I'm from the generation where we didn't have Ubers, and I hate to say this, but many people have driven home drunk many occasions in my age group.
• 7:31
  They might not say it out loud, but it happens.
• 7:33
  And it still happens today, by the way.
• 7:35
  There's one i- every 42 seconds, someone dies by a drunk driver.
• 7:39
  So it's still a problem.
• 7:41
  But with all that being said, I woke up and went, "Colleen."
• 7:46
  Even driving home I realized, oh, my God, how drunk I was.
• 7:50
  I wasn't that drunk when I left.
• 7:51
  It hit, 'cause it was a long drive, so after about a hour, I started seeing double, and I'm like, "Oh, my God, I'm drunk."
• 7:57
  I didn't even think I was drunk when I left.
• 8:00
  Again, that's the stupidity of drunkenness.
• 8:02
  You don't realize how drunk you are when you're in the moment, right?
• 8:06
  Someone has to point it out to you.
• 8:07
  And so at that point, rationally, yes, I shoulda just pulled over and called my partner and said, "Come get me," but no, I stupidly, I will say it, continued and said a promise "Get me home."
• 8:20
  Safely without killing anyone, and I swear I will quit.
• 8:24
  And the next day I was like I need to quit.
• 8:27
  I'm not...
• 8:28
  This binge drinking, I have a wild card in my hand, and it could flip over any time.
• 8:34
  The only way to guarantee something like that won't happen again is to just not drink.
• 8:39
  And so I started my journey of I asked for help, because in the past I obviously couldn't do it on my own, so that was a hard thing for me.
• 8:48
  Yeah.
• 8:49
  Best decision I ever made in my life, and here I am now sharing the story and hoping that s- it will resonate with someone, and maybe they'll make a shift for themselves too if it's a problem.
• 9:01
  It is, and it's a problem for a lot of people.
• 9:03
  And unfortunately it starts, and it's just like the normal, but I...
• 9:07
  People do, you can rationalize anything.
• 9:09
  You can...
• 9:10
  And I've heard it so many times I'm just gonna have...
• 9:12
  Oh, I've had three.
• 9:13
  Let me go ahead and eat some bread, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna soak it up."
• 9:16
  And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.
• 9:19
  It's still, there's no reason to ke- continue, but we don't think that way, and unfortunately we don't think that way.
• 9:25
  But I always say to people, 'cause I, I do a lot of talking, I am addiction and recovery certified, whatever, I don't know what the term even is.
• 9:34
  It doesn't even matter.
• 9:35
  But I do a lot, I work with a lot of people that have gone through different addictions and have gone through recovery, and that gray area drinking, kinda like you said, it's always that, "I don't drink every day.
• 9:47
  I don't drink very often.
• 9:49
  I don't drink when I'm alone."
• 9:51
  Like, all of these things we've kinda been like if I don't do that, I don't have a problem."
• 9:55
  But if you sit down and you have two, and then all of a sudden you're like, "Wow, I can finally relax," and then you have three, and then it's "Wow, I don't remember the pain.
• 10:06
  I don't remember the hurt."
• 10:07
  It's like we're still, some people are still drinking for a reason.
• 10:11
  And did you have a reason that got you drinking?
• 10:15
  Oh, yeah.
• 10:15
  And I call it the story beneath the behavior.
• 10:18
  That's my trademark now.
• 10:20
  It, this is what I speak on a lot, because I believe exactly what you said, Tammy.
• 10:25
  There's a story beneath our behavior, that we're drowning in however manner we choose.
• 10:30
  If it's scrolling, if it's whatever, right?
• 10:33
  The uncomfortableness that we don't wanna deal with.
• 10:35
  Yeah, I had a, something happen, and this is what I write about in my book, is when I was like started writing I didn't know that's what I was gonna write about, but after I wrote everything, I realized
• 10:49
  that there was a pain point of a particular incident which I created a story, which wasn't true, but I created it, and I continued to live out my adult life with this belief I had.
• 11:01
  And it was un- it wasn't until I could unearth that and go, "Oh my God, this is the problem.
• 11:09
  This is what I, this is why I was trying to, this is why I was m- operating the way I have been," and then you release that story and you just go, "Wow, that's incredible how many years I
• 11:22
  spent- Not loving myself because of something that happened to me.
• 11:28
  It wasn't my fault, and yet I turned it around into a shameful thing where I'm not lovable, and I honestly believe that, and I continue to put myself in situations or with people who kinda reinforce that belief, right?
• 11:42
  Not every decision.
• 11:43
  I have a, a wonderful family, and my partner's amazing and...
• 11:48
  But, back in the day when I was really struggling, unaware, living this belief, yeah, I was doing all kinds of reckless stuff, drinking.
• 11:58
  It was very heavy in my 20s and early 30s till I started to uncover, oh, wow, maybe I have a problem, and figure it out, right?
• 12:07
  But it makes sense.
• 12:08
  There's so many of the people that would have these, I don't wanna say gray area drinking, because if it's g- if it's gray area...
• 12:16
  I tell people, and this is just my own personal opinion, if you wake up and you have shame or scared or you're like, "What did I say?
• 12:26
  What did I..."
• 12:27
  You're blacking out, it's a problem.
• 12:29
  Absolutely.
• 12:30
  And no matter how you try to spin it, no matter how you try to rationalize it, if it's one more thing that adds guilt and shame to your plate, then it's a problem.
• 12:40
  And most people the, most of the people that I know came from a very traumatic background, so a very traumatic childhood.
• 12:47
  And they drank to numb, or they drank to be...
• 12:50
  it's our...
• 12:51
  N- drinking is a really good way to get a quick dopamine hit.
• 12:56
  And when you have pain, whether it's from your childhood or something that happened or a death right now, pain and loss, it is really easy.
• 13:05
  It is really easy, and that's why I think a lot of people have one, and they go, "Oh, I can fi..."
• 13:09
  With me, it was, wow, after three or four, I can finally, quote-unquote, "be myself."
• 13:16
  I would let- It's a bad reason loose enough to not be afraid of my environment.
• 13:20
  And that's not a good...
• 13:21
  so it's but it's, did s- does stopping alcohol actually fix that?
• 13:26
  No, 'cause you're not replacing that dopamine hit.
• 13:29
  You're gonna get it somewhere.
• 13:30
  When you're in pain, you will find a way to get that.
• 13:33
  And like you said, it could be that doom scrolling.
• 13:35
  I think right now one of the biggest addictions we have is that phone.
• 13:39
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:41
  I look at children and even myself I'm guilty of it.
• 13:44
  Like, when I get nervous or don't wanna have a conversation with someone, I open up my phone.
• 13:48
  I'm like, ah, TikTok, Instagram what are we doing here?
• 13:51
  And it's like, because it gives me that just quick sense.
• 13:54
  My brain gets that quick reward of, okay, I had a relief from the stress for just a second.
• 14:01
  Tammy, I was at a concert the other day, and I s- I noticed two people sitting down.
• 14:06
  It was a great show.
• 14:07
  Most of the crowd was up dancing, and this isn't to judge them, it was just an observation of what you're saying.
• 14:13
  And they were on their phones, like, looking at Facebook or whatever, and I thought, "Wow."
• 14:19
  I felt actually sorry for them.
• 14:21
  You can't put your phone down and enjoy the experience?
• 14:24
  That we're so addicted to looking at whatever it is we look at for that dopamine hit.
• 14:31
  That- and I just was like, "Wow, this is a problem."
• 14:34
  Yeah, for sure.
• 14:35
  I've said to parents, 'cause they're like, "Yeah, I can't get my daughter off my phone and- off her phone," and I'm like, "When you're getting ready to have a conversation she knows she doesn't wanna have, is it really
• 14:45
  intense?"
• 14:46
  And she's like, "Yeah."
• 14:46
  I'm like, "She's dissociating."
• 14:48
  Yeah.
• 14:48
  That is a break from reality, no matter how you look at it.
• 14:52
  She is stepping away going, "I can't deal."
• 14:54
  And I think that, that drinking, I know for me it was my dopamine hit, and I could be myself, I could lighten up, I wasn't scared.
• 15:03
  I grew up with so much walking on eggshells, and I had horrible relationships 'cause I didn't know how to have a relationship 'cause I didn't know what it looked like, and I had social anxiety and everything else, and...
• 15:13
  But get three or four beers in me and I was the life of the party.
• 15:16
  I was fun.
• 15:17
  I was me.
• 15:19
  Or so I thought.
• 15:19
  Yeah.
• 15:20
  The interesting thing is, you, which you know I'm sure, is that after the second drink, the dopamine hit starts changing because the other chemicals, the d- the serotonin which makes you depressed.
• 15:32
  So it's, two drinks is the best place to be if you're gonna drink.
• 15:37
  And then it starts going downhill from there.
• 15:39
  Exactly.
• 15:40
  And you- But you think you're going uphill, but you're really going downhill.
• 15:43
  Exactly.
• 15:44
  And honestly, like you said, and when you truly, and I've talked to a lot of people that agree with this in their experiences, is all of a sudden it's two and then they start coming faster.
• 15:54
  Yes.
• 15:54
  And then it's, because it's "Oh yeah, now this is-" Yeah.
• 15:56
  this feels really good," until it doesn't.
• 15:59
  It does.
• 15:59
  Exactly.
• 16:01
  I know.
• 16:02
  Yeah.
• 16:02
  Yeah.
• 16:03
  So what are some of the things...
• 16:04
  Okay, so you quit cold turkey.
• 16:07
  I did.
• 16:07
  You just said, "Bam, none, no more."
• 16:09
  Yeah.
• 16:10
  I had a, it wasn't a linear quit, there, I am human, so I did have some, it was a process.
• 16:16
  But that was also learning experience that, you know, even if I went 30 days and maybe had two beers- In those 30 days, the rest of the month I did great, which was better than I did before.
• 16:28
  So it was just learning how to give myself some grace and learn from it.
• 16:33
  But yeah, basically I did quit cold turkey.
• 16:35
  I knew it the next day after I woke up.
• 16:37
  I had all those thoughts you explained of the shame, the guilt, time to change, this is a problem, and I knew that I had to figure it out.
• 16:46
  Congratulations, 'cause most people don't.
• 16:48
  Thank you.
• 16:49
  And, or they go to something else.
• 16:51
  Yeah.
• 16:52
  Because they're not actually...
• 16:54
  So I'm assuming, and I don't know, I could be wrong, did you go back- and figure out, okay, why, 'Cause when I go to do something, like I'm going to pick up my phone because I'm nervous, I'll pick
• 17:04
  it up and go, "Tammy, why?"
• 17:06
  I started questioning, what is going through my head that I feel like I need to step away and get on my phone?
• 17:12
  And start questioning that.
• 17:14
  Same thing with the drink not, oh good this feels good, but why do I feel like I need a drink?
• 17:20
  Did you go through all that?
• 17:22
  I did, not to the depths of finding the story beneath the behavior.
• 17:27
  That was a, a number of years of processing.
• 17:30
  But what I, when I quit, when I would have a craving, I would go to the why am I craving it now.
• 17:36
  It was a superficial craving thing, not why did I drink in the first place.
• 17:41
  But it would be like, why am I having a craving now?
• 17:43
  And then I'd look at, what's going on.
• 17:46
  So I guess it's basically yes, to answer your question am I anxious?
• 17:50
  Am I hungry?
• 17:53
  Is it just a habit because I used to drink at 3:00 every day?
• 17:58
  Or not every day, but when I did drink.
• 18:00
  But when I'm home from the boat, I have a lot of free time, so it's not like I have many obligations, so it is easy to drink more.
• 18:08
  Or was easy to drink more, but.
• 18:10
  So yeah, questioning it is good, but that takes awareness, right?
• 18:13
  And that's the first place to start is why am I reaching for this beer right now, and then figure it out.
• 18:20
  And it's no different if you've got, pre-diabetes and you're reaching for a chocolate chip cookie every night.
• 18:25
  Exactly.
• 18:26
  Why am I reaching for this cookie?
• 18:27
  And it's almost like I tell people, have that replacement.
• 18:31
  What could feel almost just as good as that cookie right now, maybe not quite as good, but what could give you that reward that's not going to hurt you or somebody else in the long run?
• 18:41
  And so it's replacing and it takes practice.
• 18:44
  And it's really, quite honestly, I like to be frank it's tough in the beginning because that's the hardest time, j- adjusting your habits and your MO, your way of operating.
• 18:55
  And but that's where you get your support, right?
• 18:58
  If you can do it on your own, great, but I don't know, it's just so much simpler when you have a support, a network of people to, or someone to bounce back where you are and how it is
• 19:09
  and how challenging and how can I make it easier?
• 19:13
  And knowing that your wins will start building on top of each other and it gets easier.
• 19:19
  If you have three wins and you have a fallback, it's okay, right?
• 19:23
  The world's not over.
• 19:25
  Why did you...
• 19:26
  everything's a choice, so why on that day did you choose to, if it's drinking, drink?
• 19:31
  And then you go, okay whatever, you figure it out, and then you go back and you just keep moving forward not going down the ditch of I'm, I'll never quit.
• 19:39
  What the heck, I give up right now 'cause I had- Well- one sip of a beer.
• 19:44
  Yeah, and some- It's over.
• 19:45
  And when you don't have an accountability partner, whether you, like you said, whether it's a community, a group, a friend, a partner, whatever it is, if you don't have that accountability partner and you're coming from a place which
• 19:56
  I truly believe like 99% of the people that I work with are coming from a place of whatever happened, for whatever reason, they don't feel worthy or good or enough, so they don't feel deserving.
• 20:10
  If they don't do that, they're not going to be able to see the wins and celebrate the wins for themself.
• 20:16
  Yeah.
• 20:16
  I do...
• 20:17
  it's very hard to be like, "Way to go, Tammy.
• 20:19
  You went 29 days, and one day you messed up."
• 20:22
  No, what do we do when we have that inner critic, our little subconscious inner critic sitting on our shoulders where it's "You suck.
• 20:29
  You messed that up.
• 20:29
  You screwed up.
• 20:30
  Why are you even doing this?
• 20:31
  You're never gonna do it."
• 20:32
  I can picture the words going through people's heads.
• 20:35
  And but if you have an accountability partner or somebody that's gonna say, "What, are you kidding me?"
• 20:40
  "You went 29 days.
• 20:43
  Good job."
• 20:43
  Exactly.
• 20:44
  Sometimes we need the validation, especially in the beginning of our journey of change- to reinforce that positive good job, right?
• 20:54
  And you're like, "Oh, okay, I can maybe accept that."
• 20:58
  And then you start doing it yourself.
• 20:59
  You don't need the accountability anymore.
• 21:01
  You start...
• 21:02
  Once you get to that point of empowerment of, "I got this," "I deserve this," I, It's just a beautiful process.
• 21:09
  It really...
• 21:10
  Yes.
• 21:11
  Yeah.
• 21:11
  So talk about a little bit more about what you...
• 21:15
  'Cause I'm sure you've learned a lot too, and share with the audience.
• 21:17
  I talk a lot about this, but about the whole what makes some...
• 21:23
  what happens inside your body as you're going through that binge process?
• 21:29
  S- for me, sometimes the alcohol is a poison.
• 21:34
  It's, and the way you can just show truth to it is when we drink too much and throw up, that's our body expelling the poison.
• 21:43
  If it wasn't, we wouldn't be throwing up.
• 21:44
  So physically, your body's going through so many changes the second you take a sip of alcohol, and it's all in protecting the brain.
• 21:54
  And so our bodies are really fascinatingly geared to keep us healthy and alive, and the brain is the central spot because without our brain functioning, our heart's not working.
• 22:05
  And that's why some people black out or, so the It gets very con- complicated with what goes on in our brain.
• 22:12
  But with each beer, each alcohol that we're consuming, different parts shut down, and then you can actually die from drinking too much.
• 22:20
  Y- just where your body, your brain, emotionally, the, y- that's each person's journey.
• 22:25
  I know for me, I just thought it was fun.
• 22:28
  Like you, I was, thought I was more of me when I drank more and, but honestly, I saw a video of myself one time when I thought I was perfectly fine, and I was horrified.
• 22:37
  It's funny that we think we're operating the best dancer in the room, the funniest, and if you were to see yourself transitioning the entire night of a party, you might go, "Whoa, I need to change," if I don't
• 22:51
  wanna be that person.
• 22:53
  And 'cause a lot of times we don't wanna believe it, i'll tell someone in my family now who might be drinking that, "You did this," and they'll go, "I didn't do that."
• 23:01
  I s- next time I'm gonna get it on a- on video so you can see, right?
• 23:06
  So I hope I answered your question.
• 23:07
  I, I- Yeah.
• 23:08
  Yeah, you did.
• 23:09
  Yeah.
• 23:10
  And I had nine different thoughts come through my head- as you were saying that, but I was kinda laughing because I will lo- I love to go, I work at a restaurant at night, and I love- to watch
• 23:19
  people who are at the bar, and I'm like, "Ooh," "She should stop now.
• 23:23
  Now."
• 23:24
  And I'll be thinking to myself, and I'm not serving them, so I'm like, but you see the, the voice gets loud, and then she gets a little more energetic, and then she's dancing.
• 23:31
  And I remember those.
• 23:32
  I remember that, being like, "Oh, did I really?
• 23:35
  Did I really?"
• 23:36
  But that's where, that's, you're in college, and all of a sudden it's like, "Oh that's fun," and that was funny, but it's not funny because like you said, anything horrible can happen when you're making those bad choices.
• 23:48
  And people, how many people get their stomachs pumped every single night i- co- from college dorms, and you can die.
• 23:52
  And pe- and yeah, it's, definitely you can die.
• 23:58
  But it's- It's hard to explain to a college kid.
• 24:04
  You don't understand what's actually happening.
• 24:07
  I remember I was with some friends one night, and they were drinking tequila, margaritas.
• 24:12
  And I was driving them home.
• 24:14
  I had a brand-new car, burgundy paint she threw up out of my car window.
• 24:20
  Oh, my gosh.
• 24:20
  And I didn't think anything of it.
• 24:22
  I dropped her off.
• 24:23
  I made sure she was okay, everything else.
• 24:25
  The next day I go out, and it was eaten down to the silver.
• 24:30
  Oh, wow.
• 24:31
  From the stomach acid and the tequila and everything else, and I was like I remember calling her up, and I'm like, "Come look at this."
• 24:38
  Wow.
• 24:38
  And she came over, and she's "That did that?"
• 24:40
  I'm like, "Yeah, can you imagine what it did to your intestinal lining?"
• 24:43
  Yeah.
• 24:44
  My gosh.
• 24:44
  Can you imagine what it did to your stomach?
• 24:47
  Yeah, the fact that our brains and bodies can recover from a night of dumping a bunch of booze down it is just incredible to me.
• 24:54
  And I'm amazed.
• 24:55
  That's another reason that keeps me off the booze is my brain and my mental state.
• 25:01
  Especially as I age, I need all of it, my memory, everything.
• 25:05
  Yeah.
• 25:05
  I need help, and alcohol's not helpful for that, no.
• 25:09
  No.
• 25:09
  But wow, what a story.
• 25:11
  Yeah.
• 25:11
  But did that stop you from drinking?
• 25:13
  No.
• 25:14
  No, not at that point in my life.
• 25:15
  Exactly.
• 25:16
  I had just happened to be the designated driver that night, so I wasn't drinking.
• 25:19
  She was, but- good for you no, it didn't, it, and it did And now I do.
• 25:24
  I think back, and I'm like, "Thank God."
• 25:26
  I look at my children, and I'm glad they have Uber, and they glad they have things, and they always had me to call.
• 25:32
  But not everybody makes that good decision.
• 25:34
  And like I said, it's that you lose your there's those stages.
• 25:37
  One, you get a little ooh, I feel a little bit something.
• 25:40
  And then two, it's oh, I'm a little happier and a little more relaxed.
• 25:43
  Your cognitive ability keeps going down and down, and then you don't make the decisions.
• 25:48
  Once your inhibitions are completely gone, that's where you end up, at the frat parties doing things you don't wanna do and it unfortunately happens, And then the blackout, where your memory center can't retain memories any longer because it's
• 26:03
  moved over to some other part of your brain that it needs to be.
• 26:06
  Like, it's just like things start shutting down- Yeah the more we drink, and, that's when you have moments of the night you don't remember.
• 26:14
  Yeah.
• 26:14
  It could be a brown-out.
• 26:15
  They call that a brown-out, too.
• 26:16
  But yeah.
• 26:18
  And so anyways- Yeah, and actually- these are my opinions the blackouts, that was the most confusing thing for me as a child, because my mother was a blackout drinker.
• 26:25
  And she would say things, and the next day I'd be like, "Why did you say that?"
• 26:29
  And she's like, "I didn't say that."
• 26:31
  And I can remember as a kid being like, "Okay, we don't have many rules in this house, but one of them is we don't lie."
• 26:37
  Oh, wow.
• 26:38
  And so I would say to my father, I was little.
• 26:40
  I was probably seven, eight, and I remember saying to him, Mommy told me last night she hated me.
• 26:46
  Why would she say that?
• 26:47
  And now she's denying it."
• 26:48
  And my father would just say, "Oh, she was drinking.
• 26:50
  She doesn't remember.
• 26:52
  That was so confusing to me, and because I'm thinking...
• 26:55
  I didn't understand alcohol at that point.
• 26:57
  It was just she was drinking.
• 26:58
  I drink all the time, and I still don't tell my mom I hate her.
• 27:01
  You know what I mean?
• 27:02
  And that went in my book.
• 27:03
  I remember that as B.
• 27:04
  I think it was blackout- because I couldn't wrap my head around the- concept as a young child that you could say something and physically not remember it.
• 27:14
  Yeah.
• 27:14
  Or do something, right?
• 27:15
  Or do something.
• 27:17
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  Yeah.
• 27:18
  Yeah, and that could be why some people do heinous things and they deny doing it.
• 27:23
  They don't remember.
• 27:24
  Yeah.
• 27:25
  And yeah, and then once you get shown or you're like, "Oh, God."
• 27:30
  Exactly.
• 27:31
  "That was really stupid."
• 27:33
  But usually, unfortunately, sometimes it ends up in jail Your drinking came from obviously trying to numb whatever it happened that gave you that feeling of unworthiness, unloving, and as a child.
• 27:46
  What suggestions can you give to people if they think they're teetering on that gray area drinking?
• 27:55
  Yeah.
• 27:56
  A suggestion I like to offer, which I do in my book, is just how is it working for you?
• 28:04
  It's a simple question.
• 28:05
  Write your list.
• 28:07
  Drinking provides this for me.
• 28:09
  This is what I don't like about my drinking habits.
• 28:13
  And it's a matter of looking at your, what you're doing with your drinking, how it's making you feel, and if you really wanna change, then take a first action step of what do I need to do to start
• 28:29
  changing?
• 28:31
  And for every person, that's probably gonna be different, but one of them probably will be getting some kind of help or join a group it's really hard to change on your own, the drinking.
• 28:42
  And honestly, I wanna add that because I did that for years, and I know everyone's not me, but I know I hid in the fact that I had a problem.
• 28:50
  I didn't want anyone to really know when I came out and said I'm a binge drinker, people were shocked because they didn't see it as a problem.
• 28:57
  And I tried to explain to them it's, wasn't really a problem until it's a problem."
• 29:01
  Yeah.
• 29:01
  And I didn't share when it was a problem 'cause I'm not gonna wake up and tell everyone I drove home drunk.
• 29:06
  So nobody's gonna know except me, unless I share that.
• 29:10
  And once I started sharing it, it released some of my shame too, because I thought, "Oh, other people did it.
• 29:16
  Other people had things they were shameful about."
• 29:19
  And so when you get in a group of people who are on the same journey that you are, it's nice to realize you're not alone.
• 29:26
  You're not the only one with this monkey on your back.
• 29:29
  And there's ways to support each other to get to where you wanna be, wherever that is in, in your life.
• 29:37
  And just, a lot of the people that I work with too, you know with that underlying feeling of I'm not worthy and I'm not good enough and I'm not lovable, and it's just you're...
• 29:47
  whatever the issue is, whatever the feeling is that's making you feel,...
• 29:51
  I try to tell people, "You were put on this earth to do something amazing, to be something amazing."
• 29:56
  Whether you know it or not, I truly believe God put every single person on this earth with a mission, with a plan, with a purpose.
• 30:04
  And sometimes I feel like people that get to that point "Oh, who cares?"
• 30:08
  I'll be like, "You coulda died."
• 30:09
  And they're like, "Who cares?"
• 30:11
  You should care.
• 30:12
  And it's that purpose.
• 30:15
  If you had to pick one thing, that's to me is what it is.
• 30:18
  People need some kind of purpose- that's beautiful To make a big change.
• 30:23
  They, you need to feel like you have a purpose being here, or it's just kinda "Eh, whatever."
• 30:28
  And I've met people that have been.
• 30:29
  I myself have been at that point in my life where I'm like, "Eh, what, it, okay."
• 30:33
  "I'm glad I didn't hurt someone, but had I, if I hurt myself, oh that's oh and I just, I encourage people to, look at your No, just, or try to soak it in as much as you can when
• 30:47
  I say that everybody has a purpose and everybody was born amazing and beautiful.
• 30:52
  And you will find way more pleasure in the long run by finding those things that light you up that are not harmful.
• 31:05
  Exactly.
• 31:08
  Yeah, that's...
• 31:08
  Oh, beautifully said.
• 31:10
  You're absolutely right.
• 31:11
  I guess I don't even know where I was going with that, but I just feel like there are so many people that just, they drink and you can't make somebody want to stop drinking.
• 31:19
  Oh, no.
• 31:20
  That's a for sure.
• 31:21
  I can relate to what you said because when I came home the night that I did drive drunk, I was more concerned about killing anyone else.
• 31:30
  I don't even said killing myself.
• 31:32
  So I think the purpose is very important.
• 31:36
  And then having your why do you wanna quit, because like you said, nobody's gonna quit unless they want to.
• 31:40
  So there has to be a strong enough reason.
• 31:42
  I know people who quit 'cause their daughter said, "You can't see my grandkids if you're drinking, and I know you're drinking."
• 31:49
  So if they wanna see the grandkids, they have to quit.
• 31:51
  There's reasons to push you to start quitting, and then hopefully at the end of the day you quit for yourself, not- because you get a ultimatum.
• 32:00
  But yeah, I remember a comment my son said to me, and he's 30 now, but he was about six, and we were at a party at my in-laws' house, and we were doing something.
• 32:10
  We were playing pool, and we had quite a few.
• 32:13
  And my son came up to me, he was probably six or seven maybe, and he hugged me, and he said, "Mommy, I don't like this you."
• 32:19
  Oh, wow.
• 32:21
  And I was like, "Ugh."
• 32:22
  It was like a knife in my heart.
• 32:24
  Oh, my goodness.
• 32:26
  And I- I love that honesty I did not, I don't think they saw me drink until they were teenagers and could really rational...
• 32:35
  You know what I mean?
• 32:36
  Then I was like, "Oh, then now they can kinda know what's going on," and, but I was always very honest with them about, they never met their grandmother because she died of cirrhosis at 42.
• 32:45
  You know what I mean?
• 32:46
  It was like I was very honest about that.
• 32:48
  But that one statement, I was like, "I will never let them see me like that.
• 32:53
  Never."
• 32:55
  And- Wow.
• 32:56
  Yeah.
• 32:57
  And it's, and it's, they know my history.
• 32:59
  I'm on a, this podcast.
• 33:01
  I do this.
• 33:01
  I do all that.
• 33:02
  They knew my history and everything.
• 33:04
  But yeah, it's everything, it's kinda like those two-by-fours I call them that you get in life.
• 33:09
  It's not a slap in the face.
• 33:11
  It's a freaking two-by-four that goes da-ding.
• 33:13
  Love that.
• 33:13
  Oh, my gosh.
• 33:14
  Yeah.
• 33:15
  That one sentence- was a two-by-four.
• 33:17
  Yeah.
• 33:17
  That's beautiful, Tammy.
• 33:18
  I love, that's- Yeah.
• 33:19
  I always say, that's one of my favorite expressions, you don't have to hit me with a brick twice.
• 33:22
  But some people, you have to hit them with a brick over and over again until that brick has some meaning.
• 33:27
  Yes.
• 33:29
  Yeah.
• 33:29
  But not you.
• 33:30
  You got it once.
• 33:33
  But I do.
• 33:33
  And he just, I remember looking him up at me with those little innocent eyes, and I remember thinking- Oh wow, I never even got to say that to my parents.
• 33:40
  Oh.
• 33:41
  So I'm gonna take that to heart, and I'm going to act on that for sure now.
• 33:45
  Yeah.
• 33:46
  You have a chance to change.
• 33:48
  Absolutely.
• 33:48
  Wow.
• 33:49
  That's beautiful.
• 33:50
  Yeah.
• 33:51
  So are you writing more books, or what are you...?
• 33:54
  Not at the moment.
• 33:55
  Right now I'm in the mode of promoting, and the book's a platform to speak hopefully find other opportunities to share the message.
• 34:02
  I do wanna speak at colleges, and so I think I've got a lot of work I can do around this book.
• 34:08
  And honestly, it was a lot of work to write the book, so I'm ugh, done for a few.
• 34:13
  Yeah.
• 34:13
  You wrote your book too, right?
• 34:15
  Yeah.
• 34:15
  It was funny.
• 34:15
  I actually had been thinking about writing a book for a really long time, and my son kept saying to me, "Just write your book.
• 34:21
  Just write your book."
• 34:22
  And I'm like, "I know.
• 34:23
  When I have time."
• 34:24
  And I was working at a restaurant at night, and I just, everything else was happening, and then I went on a trip with my son and drank too much- and fell off a scooter and tore five ligaments in
• 34:38
  my knees.
• 34:39
  Wow.
• 34:39
  And as we were heading to the emergency room or coming back from the emergency room, I don't remember which it was, he said to me, "Okay, so we've been telling you to slow down and write your book.
• 34:48
  Now God just said fricking write your book.
• 34:52
  'Cause now you have three and a half months."
• 34:53
  So in those three and a half months I wrote and published two books.
• 34:57
  Wow.
• 34:58
  Yeah, are you still are you drinking now, or was that the period that you quit?
• 35:02
  Are you a drinker?
• 35:03
  I'm not.
• 35:04
  I will have one, two maybe.
• 35:07
  Two.
• 35:07
  Anything more than one, like I get into that second one, and I just think it was God's way of saying, "Tammy, you really probably don't need to be drinking."
• 35:14
  But I told my husband, I've said, "If I have one, I'm good.
• 35:16
  If I have one and a half, I throw up in my mouth all night."
• 35:19
  So- Oh, wow obviously my body just doesn't like it anymore.
• 35:23
  And, it's not every day I go out and like party every once in a while.
• 35:26
  That's not, I'll have one- No with dinner.
• 35:29
  I will never order more than one and a half.
• 35:31
  You know what I mean?
• 35:32
  It just, no.
• 35:33
  Yeah.
• 35:33
  It's not your identity anymore?
• 35:34
  No.
• 35:35
  And it really never was, but- in, except for when I was in my 20s.
• 35:40
  When I was in my 20s, when I was in college.
• 35:42
  Actually, honestly, if I have to be honest, most of my heavy drinking was before I even got into college.
• 35:49
  Was when I was in high school.
• 35:51
  Wow.
• 35:52
  Because that was when I was really struggling and really, I was a number.
• 35:57
  I liked just not being able to feel.
• 35:59
  And I've spent 30 years trying to figure out how to feel, and going to therapy and throwing all the spaghetti at the wall because the generational stuff, I was like, okay, the, let's nip, like nip it in the
• 36:10
  bud here.
• 36:11
  And I don't, I'm not judgmental if people drink.
• 36:16
  I don't think there's anything wrong with a drink or two.
• 36:19
  And that's just me.
• 36:21
  But I do know that I have a tendency, and if I let myself, I will drink too much.
• 36:26
  And I don't let myself.
• 36:28
  And I just don't.
• 36:29
  I don't really have a friend group, so it's just me and my husband.
• 36:32
  And he's not a big drinker.
• 36:33
  He has one or two, that's it.
• 36:35
  So that's But yeah, so that was several years ago, and that was, yeah, that was dumb.
• 36:42
  But- it was, I got my book written.
• 36:46
  Congratulations.
• 36:47
  Ah.
• 36:48
  Yeah what it takes, right?
• 36:49
  Yeah.
• 36:50
  This has been super fun.
• 36:51
  I feel like there's more topics I wanna pull out of you, what else do you have that you wanna share with us, that you'd like to share with us?
• 36:58
  Maybe another time.
• 36:59
  Okay.
• 37:01
  I'm just inviting myself again.
• 37:03
  Please.
• 37:05
  It's fun to have these conversations, and hopefully s- it, it resonates with someone out there.
• 37:10
  No, I just think just to add on to what you s- were explaining about your relationship with alcohol and how you've worked it out, my I'm on the same bandwagon as you.
• 37:21
  I don't judge other people, and I don't think drinking's a problem.
• 37:25
  It's only a problem if it's a problem.
• 37:26
  And so I always ask the question, how is it working for you?
• 37:30
  And you explained how it's working for you, and that's cool.
• 37:32
  And I explained how it's working for me.
• 37:35
  And so everyone just, looking at your drinking and ask that question, and if it's working for you, there's no problem, right?
• 37:41
  And I say that all the ti- if I...
• 37:44
  I don't ever wanna be in that situation again where I wake up and go, "Oh my God, what did I say?
• 37:49
  Who did I hurt?
• 37:50
  Who did I text?"
• 37:51
  Now that we have texting, how many divorces and fights are probably caused by drunk texting?
• 37:57
  Yeah.
• 37:57
  Think, so I don't ever wanna put myself in that situation again.
• 38:00
  I'm over guilt and shame.
• 38:02
  I spent many years letting go of the guilt of, and shame for things that were not even my fault.
• 38:09
  And I'm like, why do I wanna bring more of that on me?
• 38:12
  I don't ever.
• 38:14
  But you're right, you have to ask, how is it working for you?
• 38:17
  Because if you are feeling those feelings, then it's worth at least exploring or talking to someone.
• 38:22
  And in the groups like you talked about, everybody understands.
• 38:27
  There's nothing I'm gonna say to you that happened while I was drinking at a party in college is probably gonna shock you.
• 38:33
  It's- it's just not.
• 38:34
  People come to me and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I just told you this story and you didn't even flinch."
• 38:39
  And I'm like It just, things happen.
• 38:43
  Like I under- Yes I don't judge.
• 38:45
  When I look at the things that happened with my mother when I was a child, I don't even judge her for those.
• 38:50
  I understand how sick she was so mentally ill, bless her heart, but she was drinking to drown, and I get that.
• 38:59
  I drank to drown for a long time.
• 39:02
  And when you drink to drown, you have to drink a lot.
• 39:05
  Because when you just have two, it doesn't drown the pain.
• 39:08
  It ups the happy, but it doesn't drown the pain.
• 39:11
  So when I was at the heart of my drinking, I had to get over that threshold.
• 39:15
  I needed to get to where I felt nothing.
• 39:18
  And that's a scary place to be because by that point you are very unhealthy.
• 39:23
  Yeah.
• 39:24
  Yeah.
• 39:25
  But- So it can feel like a lot, but it's really doable.
• 39:29
  Oh, yeah.
• 39:30
  Yeah.
• 39:31
  So sometimes it can feel like a lot if you're in that space, but but just saying yes to yourself is the first step.
• 39:39
  And then how to get past that, what's the first thing I need to do- in saying yes?
• 39:44
  And you're right.
• 39:45
  And s- stepping, making that first commitment to I want to, me- knowing, meaning I have to tell somebody else is the absolute hardest part.
• 39:53
  So if you need to run it by someone, go run it by Colleen, run it by Tammy.
• 39:57
  Run it by some- just have a, a shoulder or somebody, a friend or whatever.
• 40:01
  But in the meantime, talk to yourself like your own best friend.
• 40:06
  When you have that little inner critic sitting on your shoulder, picture, and it's telling you, "You suck.
• 40:12
  You're no good.
• 40:13
  You mess everything up.
• 40:14
  You can't even do this right," and all those things that are probably gonna go through your head as you're trying to make that decision, put yourself in your own best friend's shoes.
• 40:24
  And say, "If this was my best friend coming to me and having all those thoughts that are going through my head right now, what would I say to them?"
• 40:31
  And i- I always do that because our inner critic is our subconscious.
• 40:35
  It is all of the experiences and pain that we didn't wanna deal with.
• 40:39
  To me, that, at least in my experience.
• 40:41
  So when that inner critic comes at you, be its best friend.
• 40:45
  And that will soften everything.
• 40:49
  Yeah maybe not.
• 40:50
  I don't know.
• 40:50
  No you are, and I'm shaking my head 'cause it's a practice, and I need, I'm, even though I'm where I'm at now with my drinking, there's still other areas of life where the inner critic can rear its ugly
• 41:01
  head.
• 41:02
  And so you're absolutely right, Tammy.
• 41:03
  Those are, that's the best advice or suggestion, is to talk to yourself like you're talking to your best friend.
• 41:10
  'Cause you're not gonna tell your best friend, "You're never, you're gonna suck at this speech.
• 41:14
  Nobody's gonna like it."
• 41:15
  You're gonna say, "You're gonna rock it.
• 41:17
  You're gonna be the b- they're gonna love you."
• 41:19
  And it's just a easy flip.
• 41:21
  Yeah.
• 41:21
  If we can do it.
• 41:22
  Yep, and I do.
• 41:23
  I do, been doing NLP for many years, so it's it's all reframing.
• 41:27
  I have things where I've literally sat, like I'll sit there with something, an object, and pretend it's the little six-year-old Tammy and be like, "We got this.
• 41:35
  I got you this time."
• 41:36
  And it's just whatever you have to do.
• 41:37
  But I think that's an easy...
• 41:39
  You're right.
• 41:39
  It's an easy kinda tweak just to snip, I call it nip it in the bud.
• 41:44
  The minute you have that thought, just nip it in the bud and be like, "Why would I say this to me?
• 41:48
  I wouldn't say this to my best friend."
• 41:50
  Flip it around.
• 41:51
  Because yeah.
• 41:52
  And then know that everybody just needs to know that they are so worth any, any- And anything good that they want, they're worth it, worthy of it, yes, absolutely.
• 42:05
  This has been super fun.
• 42:06
  Thank you.
• 42:07
  It has been super fun.
• 42:08
  I know.
• 42:08
  I feel like I could talk to you forever.
• 42:10
  I'm still i- in awe of the fact that you go on one of those big ships.
• 42:14
  And yes, you're right, if you call one of those big ships a boat in front of the captain, he will take you out.
• 42:20
  Yeah, I don't think I have, honestly, 'cause I'm scared.
• 42:23
  No, my...
• 42:24
  Yeah, my dad was in the Navy, and I used to be like, "What kind of b- what boat were you on?"
• 42:27
  He's like, "I was on a ship."
• 42:29
  I was like, "Oh."
• 42:29
  I s- I know.
• 42:30
  My dad always is correcting me, "Honey, it's not a boat, it's a ship."
• 42:33
  Okay whatever.
• 42:34
  It's a ship.
• 42:36
  Yes.
• 42:36
  It's big enough to put boats on.
• 42:38
  Yes.
• 42:38
  You can put boats on it, so it's, that makes it a ship.
• 42:41
  Yes.
• 42:42
  But Colleen, before you leave, first of all, I wanna say thank you so much.
• 42:45
  Oh, you too I want to let people know where they can find your book, what else you do if you take calls, coaching.
• 42:52
  I'm not sure what else you do in this realm, if anything.
• 42:54
  But I want to know where they can find your book and all that good stuff.
• 42:59
  Okay, cool.
• 43:00
  I do have a website, which is a great place to go for everything.
• 43:04
  It's called lifebeyondthebinge.com.
• 43:08
  And I'm offering, which I would like to offer to your listeners, I have a self-guided journey workbook- Oh that I can send to you.
• 43:16
  It's it's a PDF.
• 43:19
  It's also for sale on the website, but for your guests it could be free if they're interested.
• 43:24
  And after, if they wanna fill out the workbook, there's a free call with me if they wanna talk over their guided answers that they worked through.
• 43:35
  I have a retreat coming up in Bali in April 2027, which I haven't really marketed yet, but I know it seems like a long ways away, but it will be here soon.
• 43:45
  That's like eight months.
• 43:46
  Yeah.
• 43:47
  I had it scheduled in October, but because of my commercial fishing slowing down I thought I might miss it, so I've had to push it out.
• 43:54
  But I'm excited about that.
• 43:56
  So do you mind if I ask a little bit more about the retreat?
• 44:00
  Sure.
• 44:00
  Is it geared specifically towards people that are struggling with a relationship with alcohol, or is it...?
• 44:06
  It's for women, and it's going to be very small so it can be intimate.
• 44:09
  It's geared around asking the story beneath the behavior- Okay because that's really my bottom line.
• 44:15
  I don't really- Okay my binge drinking was the behavior I chose- But I had a story beneath it.
• 44:22
  So it's a retreat to, it's called The Exhale.
• 44:26
  So it's...
• 44:26
  And I love Bali, it's a magical place, so it is a destination.
• 44:30
  It takes effort to get there, and I'm transparent about that.
• 44:33
  But once you're there, it's a beautiful space for this kind of work that we're gonna be doing.
• 44:38
  There's gonna be some fun involved.
• 44:41
  But basically it's for women to, who are at a point in their life where they might wanna rewrite their story.
• 44:48
  They don't necessarily have to rewrite the whole thing, but even maybe finding out what is, who am I?
• 44:54
  What has been my story, and where might I just want it to begin to go?
• 44:59
  You don't have to map out your entire life.
• 45:02
  But just the idea is to leave the retreat with some solid forward motion, and then we follow up later after the retreat to see how it's progressing for you.
• 45:12
  So it's yeah.
• 45:13
  So that's...
• 45:15
  So I can share when I get more information with you if you like, Tammy, and- Yeah, I definitely want to, and I'll send out an email to everybody, because everybody needs something like that.
• 45:23
  I think especially in the world that I'm in and the world that most of the people that I work with are in we don't know those qu- answers to those questions sometimes, and that's where we're stuck.
• 45:32
  We spend this whole time, this, we spend our lives in this reactive world based on the past, and we forget who we are, that authentic who I am underneath all of the ick.
• 45:43
  Yes.
• 45:44
  And I'm actually interested in your retreat.
• 45:46
  Oh, I love that.
• 45:47
  And here's something else about it is once I started, I don't know about your listeners, but once I started investing in me, like treating myself, that I'm worthy to spend money on me, it's like another, another thing in
• 46:00
  your bucket of self-love and self-fulfilling.
• 46:03
  So you don't have to do my retreat, but I'm just saying treat yourself to a massage.
• 46:08
  Treat yourself to some self-care that, we're all worth it.
• 46:11
  Absolutely.
• 46:11
  We deserve to be loved on.
• 46:14
  Yes.
• 46:14
  And every time that you don't abandon yourself, that's why I'm so big into boundaries with people.
• 46:20
  Every time you say yes to yourself or every time you say no to something else, you're saying yes to yourself.
• 46:27
  And that is how you grow your confidence, and that is how you get back who you are.
• 46:33
  Like I'm a big proponent on if it doesn't light you up, don't do it.
• 46:37
  I don't care what it is.
• 46:38
  Absolutely.
• 46:38
  Don't do it.
• 46:39
  We're gonna have to talk about this off on the side, 'cause- Yeah who knows?
• 46:43
  Absolutely.
• 46:44
  Maybe you'll wanna co-host it with me or something.
• 46:46
  There you go.
• 46:47
  That sounds amazing.
• 46:48
  Sounds good.
• 46:49
  And then before you go- Oh, yes so I will put your links in the show notes and everything.
• 46:53
  So guys, if you're driving, if you're not, don't wanna write down, just don't worry.
• 46:56
  I'll get you to the links for that.
• 46:58
  Take advantage of the- free book?
• 47:02
  Free workbook yeah, there's free workbook.
• 47:03
  And then the call with Colleen, because there is nothing more valuable, if you're out there listening, to deal with somebody that has gone through what you're struggling with.
• 47:13
  You can go to any textbook therapist, any textbook counselor, any textbook coach who has read all the books and done all the things, but when you go to someone like Colleen that has struggled with binge drinking and you're
• 47:26
  teetering on that gray area drinking, she's been there.
• 47:29
  She knows what you're feeling.
• 47:31
  She can literally have so much empathy and help you so much.
• 47:35
  Transformation is just so much faster when you go with someone that has lived experience.
• 47:39
  I truly believe that.
• 47:40
  So reach out for her free offer, whatever it is.
• 47:43
  Get hold of her.
• 47:44
  I've only known her for one hour and three minutes, and I already love her.
• 47:48
  So but for those of you that are listening and, or for you, Colleen, I'm sorry, what...
• 47:54
  If you had to give the listeners one last message, words of wisdom or piece of advice, what would it be for the listeners?
• 48:03
  I guess it would be in this moment, change is scary and that's normal.
• 48:11
  Fear is really normal in change.
• 48:13
  But if you have that inkling that something's not right or something's not sitting in your behavior that you're feeling you need to change just go for it.
• 48:24
  It's okay.
• 48:25
  We all...
• 48:26
  Those of us who have gone through it have survived, and we're here.
• 48:31
  And it's like Tammy, you mentioned, it's just s- realizing that we are whole human beings that have a purpose in life.
• 48:42
  And when you start that process of change, you might not believe it, but there is something.
• 48:47
  And once you discover it, your life just becomes magical.
• 48:52
  So- I love that I hope that's helpful to somebody.
• 48:57
  Oh, I'm sure it will be.
• 48:58
  Thank you.
• 48:58
  That was my experience anyway.
• 48:58
  No, and I 100% agree.
• 48:58
  And I think I end my podcast by saying, "You are, you're enough right here right now.
• 48:59
  You are way more than enough."
• 49:01
  I think that's how I end it.
• 49:09
  But you have to believe that.
• 49:11
  And- and change and moving forward, I truly believe you're either evolving or dissolving.
• 49:17
  Love it.
• 49:17
  So make a step.
• 49:18
  Make a step.
• 49:19
  That's awesome.
• 49:20
  You have some great one-liners, Tammy.
• 49:23
  Evolving or dissolving.
• 49:25
  That is so true.
• 49:26
  That's, what you're doing, so you might as well be moving towards peace and joy and love and happiness.
• 49:32
  So you all have an amazingly blessed day, and we will see you back soon.
• 49:37
  Bye.
• 49:38
  Bye.