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Brothers, Consider Christian Hedonism | John Piper · Reformed Thinking

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  Welcome. Welcome back to Reformed
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  Thinking. This is the place where we try
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  to unpack significant ideas, thinking through what they mean
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  for our understanding and for our daily walk.
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  Today we are taking a deep dive into some sources that honestly
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  are pretty thought provoking. They really challenge how we
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  tend to view our motivations, especially when it comes to
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  doing good. Indeed, we're essentially
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  putting 2 quite powerful ideas side by side. 1 is a philosophy
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  that's had a huge impact on Western thought for centuries,
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  right? And the other is a perspective
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  that aims to sort of realign our hearts with what many understand
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  as our Creator's original design.
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  So it's a real contrast we're looking at.
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  It is a contrast between maybe a noble sense of duty on one hand,
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  and what others would frame as joyful obedience on the other.
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  And you've given us some excellent material for this.
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  We're focusing on this comparison between Kanti and
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  morality and what's known as Christian hedonism, especially
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  as John Piper's articulated it. We've got excerpts, some
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  critical studies, even a bit of historical background on key
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  figures involved, whether they shape these ideas or push back
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  against them. So our mission for this deep
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  dive is really to pull out the essential pieces, the main
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  arguments, to help you listen and grasp what's at stake and
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  what the implications might be for your own life.
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  Yeah, we'll start by digging into the roots of Khan's
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  thinking. What does it really imply for
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  moral actions? What gives an act moral worth in
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  his view? And then we'll pivot to unpack
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  the counter argument from Christian hedonism.
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  And this view suggests something quite radical that joy isn't a
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  problem for moral worth. It's actually, well, essential
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  to it. That's a big shift.
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  It is so We'll walk through the arguments, look at the biblical
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  support cited, and hear from some voices in Christian history
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  who seem to echo this way of thinking.
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  All right, let's get into it then.
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  Are you ready to maybe reconsider why the why behind
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  your good deeds matter so much? Let's dive in.
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  OK, so the sources jump right in.
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  By setting up this fundamental disagreement, this real tension
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  about why we do good things, we're looking at two really
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  distinct ways of seeing it, one grounded in Immanuel Kant's
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  philosophy, the other framed as, well, biblical morality, or,
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  more pointedly, Christian hedonism.
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  And they offer very different answers about what makes an
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  action truly moral. Let's start with Kant.
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  What's the core idea there? Well, from the Kantian
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  perspective, the actual moral worth of an action goes down if
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  you're aiming for any kind of benefit or personal satisfaction
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  from it. Goes down, so getting joy out of
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  it is bad. In terms of its pure moral
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  value, yes, According to Kant, if you get anything out of it,
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  even spiritual satisfaction, the ACT moral value is somehow
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  lessened or even negated. Kant really valued acting purely
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  from a sense of duty out of respect for the moral law
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  itself, not because you feel like it or because you desire
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  hire a good outcome for yourself.
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  So is categorical imperative idea plays into this?
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  Exactly. Moral actions have to be
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  universalizable. Things you could will everyone
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  to do, and you do them simply because they are right, detached
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  from your own inclinations or hoped for results.
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  So an act is only really truly good if you do it just because
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  it's your duty, maybe even if you don't want to do it and you
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  can't expect any gain. That's the gist of it.
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  The sources mentioned a quote from EIN Rand, not a continuing
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  herself, but capturing that spirit, saying an action is
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  moral only if one has no desire to perform it, but performs it
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  out of a sense of duty and derives no benefit from it,
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  neither material nor spiritual. Wow that's stark.
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  Any hint of wanting joy or reward basically corrupts the
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  ACT, makes it self-serving. From that viewpoint, yes, it
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  promotes a kind of Stoic ideal. The value is in the pure
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  detached execution of duty, not in any feeling or personal
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  outcome. Which leads to this idea of
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  disinterested acts being the highest good, right?
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  And disinterested, interested here means acting just because
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  it's the rule, the moral law, not because you find any
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  pleasure in it or expect something good for yourself.
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  So if joy happens, it's just a side effect unintended.
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  It has to be unintended. Ideally, if any benefit,
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  tangible or spiritual, is part of your motive, your reason for
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  acting, then it's seen as undermining the moral purity of
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  the ACT. OK, so even if, say, the Bible
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  mentions a reward, a Kantian might see that as just a result,
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  not the reason to act. They might try to interpret it
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  that way, yes. As a consequence that fall is a
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  purely motivated act rather than an incentive you're supposed to
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  aim for. OK.
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  But this is where the source is really pushed back, right?
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  They make this bold claim. This Kantian way of thinking has
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  passed as Christian for too long.
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  They do. They insist it's fundamentally
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  unbiblical, actually at odds with the spirit of Christian
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  life as presented in Scripture. That's strong statement.
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  It challenges a lot of assumptions, maybe even how some
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  of us were taught to think about duty and obedience.
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  It does, because this content ideal gets contrasted directly
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  with biblical texts that don't just mention future blessing and
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  reward. They seem to actively direct us
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  to seek them as a proper reason for doing good.
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  Seek them as a motivation. Yes, the sources stated.
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  Quite plainly, A disinterested performance of duty displeases
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  God. Displeases God.
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  Wow. Instead, we're told God loves a
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  cheerful giver, Not someone just going through the motions, but
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  someone whose heart is engaged, joyful in the act.
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  So God wants our hearts involved, not just our hands
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  doing the duty. That seems to be the argument,
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  and it goes further. The sources argue that this kind
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  of disinterested moral behavior is actually both impossible and
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  undesirable from a biblical standpoint.
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  Impossible and undesirable. OK, unpack that.
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  Why impossible? Well.
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  Because of basic human nature, our will, the argument goes,
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  naturally gravitates towards what it perceives will bring the
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  most happiness or satisfaction. Think of Blaise Pascal's famous
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  line. All men seek happiness without
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  exception. Right.
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  It's a fundamental drive. So trying to act with absolutely
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  no inclination towards what brings satisfaction would be in
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  a sense, acting against our own created wiring.
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  OK, that's the impossible part. Why undesirable?
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  Because it paints a strange picture of goodness.
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  If disinterestedness is the gold standard, then it creates this
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  weird paradox. The better.
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  The more virtuous a person becomes, the harder it would be
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  for them to act morally, according to Kant.
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  How so? Because a truly good person,
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  someone growing in godliness, would presumably start to
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  delight in doing good, right? They'd find joy and obedience
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  and kindness. Yeah, that seems natural.
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  But that very delete that growing desire to do good would
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  diminish the disinterested quality of the ACT, making it
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  less morally pure. By Conte and standards.
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  So the more Christ like you become, the less moral your
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  actions are. It seems backward.
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  That is a strange paradox. The better you get, the worse
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  you are being moral by that definition.
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  Exactly, and the sources point to Hebrews 11.6 is a key verse
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  here. It says whoever would draw near
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  to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those
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  who seek him. Must believe he rewards yes.
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  You cannot please God if you do not come to him as rewarder.
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  It's not just belief in his existence, but believe in his
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  character as a generous giver and approaching him with that
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  expectation. That's a world away from
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  detached duty. It sounds like Active, hopeful,
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  seeking. It certainly does a very
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  different picture of faith and obedience.
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  OK, so if the Kantian model of disinterested duty is presented
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  as, well, problematic from a biblical view, what's the
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  alternative? The sources offer this thing
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  called Christian hedonism, which, let's be honest, sounds a
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  bit jarring at first. It can, absolutely.
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  The name itself catches you off guard, but the core idea, the
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  shortest way to summarize it, is this.
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  God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.
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  OK, say that again. God is most glorified in us when
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  we are most satisfied in Him. Right now, this isn't saying
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  make pleasure your God. Not at all.
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  It's recognizing that all people seek pleasure, seek happiness,
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  seek satisfaction. That's just human.
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  Like Pascal said. Exactly, Christian hedonism
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  says, OK, let's take that universal, God-given drive for
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  happiness and direct it towards its true, ultimate, and only
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  lasting source, God himself. So don't deny the desire for
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  happiness, but aim it correctly. Precisely aim it at God, because
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  our deepest delight, our highest happiness, is meant to be found
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  in Him. The idea is we all make a God
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  out of whatever we find most pleasure in.
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  So let's consciously make God our God by finding our greatest
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  pleasure in Him. All right, now this leads to
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  what the sources call a really striking claim that the desire
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  to be happy is actually a proper motive for every good deed.
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  Yes, think about that. It completely turns the Kantian
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  view upside down. It really does.
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  The sources flat out state that if you abandoned the pursuit of
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  your own joy, specifically your joy in God, you actually cannot
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  truly love other people or please God.
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  So our joy isn't selfish competition with God's glory.
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  No, it's presented as the necessary foundation for genuine
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  love and obedience. To truly love God or your
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  neighbor requires some level of internal delight or satisfaction
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  in doing so, not just a grudging sense of obligation.
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  That makes intuitive sense, actually.
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  It's hard to genuinely love out of sheer joyless duty.
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  And the argument continues, pursuing the highest good, which
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  is God, will naturally result in our greatest happiness.
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  So our satisfaction in God isn't a detour from glorifying Him.
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  It's the vehicle, yeah, the means by which it happens.
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  That's the core assertion, and true worship, which is meant to
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  please God, is described in the sources using Psalm 16.11.
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  It's the hedonistic pursuit of God, in whose presence is
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  fullness of joy, and in whose hand are pleasures forevermore.
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  So worship isn't just doing something for God, it's finding
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  our joy in God. Finding our joy in Him becomes
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  the act of worship itself. It shifts worship from feeling
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  like a chore to being a delight, a feast.
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  OK, so how does God glorify himself according to this view?
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  The sources mention Jonathan Edwards here.
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  Yes, drawing heavily on Edwards, they outline 2 main ways God
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  glorifies Himself. First, simply by appearing to
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  our understanding, by revealing Himself, His attributes, His
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  works. When we see Him for who He is,
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  He is glorified. Just by being known, understood.
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  Right. But second, and this is
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  highlighted as a really significant for Christian
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  hedonism, God glorifies himself in communicating himself to
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  their hearts and in their rejoicing and delighting in and
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  enjoying the manifestations which He makes of Himself.
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  So not just seeing His glory, but rejoicing in it and enjoying
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  it. Exactly.
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  God is glorified more, the argument goes, when his glory is
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  not just seen intellectually, but when it's actively rejoiced
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  in, emotionally, affectionately. So my delight in God actually
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  adds to his glory. In the sense that your act of
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  approval and pleasure in His revealed glory magnifies that
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  glory more than just a cold intellectual acknowledgement
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  would. It requires A heartfelt, glad
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  response. That's a powerful idea.
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  Our affections, our emotional response to God, are central to
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  his glorification. That's what's called the
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  ultimate foundation for Christian hedonism.
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  It means God isn't just glorified by facts about Him,
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  but by our subjective, joyful response to Him.
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  OK, let's dig a bit more into why this view, Christian
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  hedonism, pushes back so hard against Kant's disinterested
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  morality. The sources say it's undesirable
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  for several reasons. Yes, primarily because it's seen
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  as unbiblical, as we've touched on, but also because it creates
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  that strange, counterintuitive view of what human goodness
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  looks like. The unbiblical part seems clear.
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  The Bible often links joy and obedience.
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  Right. The idea of doing good purely
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  for duty's sake without any inner delight just doesn't seem
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  to square with the consistent biblical picture where joy in
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  God, delight in his law, gladness and obedience, these
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  are woven into the fabric of a righteous life.
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  Trying to separate them goes against the grain.
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  And then there's the impossible and undesirable critique again.
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  Impossible, again, because of Pascal's point.
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  We are wired to seek happiness. Our will always leans towards
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  what it thinks will bring the most satisfaction.
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  Denying that is denying something fundamental about us.
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  And undesirable because that paradox we talked about.
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  Exactly. If disinterestedness is the
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  standard, then the better a man became, the harder it would be
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  for him to act morally, because a truly good person, transformed
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  by grace, will find increasing delight in doing good.
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  They want to obey, want to be kind.
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  Precisely think about the descriptions in Scripture.
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  A good person loves kindness. They delight in the law of the
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  Lord. They find joy in God's will.
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  How can such a person act disinterested?
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  Their very character involves affection and delight in these
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  things. So under Kant's view, they're
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  growing. Godliness makes them less purely
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  moral. It's a bizarre outcome, isn't
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  it? It puts Kanti and ethics
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  fundamentally at odds with the biblical picture of
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  sanctification, of growing to love what God loves.
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  So the alternative suggestion is.
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  The better the man, the more joy and obedience.
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  Joy isn't a contaminant, it's a natural growing result of
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  genuine goodness. It's a sign that your heart is
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  aligning with God's heart. That feels much more consistent
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  with spiritual growth. Joy increases, not decreases.
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  And the sources are pretty blunt about the opposite.
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  Disinterested performance of duty displeases God.
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  They keep coming back to 2nd Corinthians 9.7.
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  God loves a cheerful giver. Not a grim, resentful 1, no.
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  God wants us to delight in doing good and to do it confidently,
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  knowing that our joyful obedience actually secures and
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  increases our ultimate joy in Him.
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  He's not looking for reluctant servants, but glad sons and
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  daughters. This really brings the biblical
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  evidence into the spotlight then how God himself seems to
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  motivate us using joy and reward.
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  Yes, the sources argue, the Bible is just replete with
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  promises full of them, and these promises are designed
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  intentionally, clearly and boldly and hedonistically to
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  motivate our behavior. Not just side effects, but
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  actual motivations God holds out.
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  That's the claim. They are direct incentives God
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  uses to stir us to action, to encourage a joyful obedience
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  rooted in trusting His goodness and His promises.
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  OK, give us some examples from the sources.
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  Well take Luke 6.35, love your enemies and do good and lend.
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  Expecting nothing in return so far sounds maybe a bit Conte and
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  right. Disinterested.
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  Expecting nothing in return. Then it continues and your
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  reward will be great. The motivation offered is a
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  future heavenly reward explicitly contrasted with
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  worldly repayment. So motivated by heavenly gain
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  even while being unmotivated by earthly gain.
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  Exactly. It's looking confidently to God
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  as the rewarder which fuels the action.
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  It's not cold calculation, but faith expressing itself in
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  action because of the promised reward.
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  OK, what else? Luke 14.12 to 14 Jesus talks
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  about inviting the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind to
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  your feast. People who can't repay you.
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  Why? Because you will be blessed, for
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  you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.
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  Again, the action is encouraged with a future divine repayment
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  in view. Investing in eternity,
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  basically. That's a good way to put it.
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  Then there's Luke 12.33. Sell your possessions and give
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  to the needy. Provide yourselves with money
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  bags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that
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  does not fail. Provide yourselves with
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  treasure. Sounds like an aim, a goal.
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  It's presented exactly that way. Not if you do.
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  This treasure might happen. It's do this in order to provide
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  yourselves with heavenly treasure.
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  It's an intentional pursuit of lasting, unshakable joy.
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  And Luke 16.9 using unrighteous wealth.
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  Yes, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth,
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  so that when it fails, they may receive you into the eternal
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  dwellings again. The command is to act
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  strategically using temporary resources, with the explicit aim
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  of securing an eternal home. That is very non Kantian.
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  It's clearly interest driven, but the interest is eternal
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  blessing, not selfish gain now. Precisely these passages
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  consistently show God holding out future blessings, eternal
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  rewards, not as mere afterthoughts but as direct aims
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  and incentives for how we live now.
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  It seems to be his chosen way of motivating His people, appealing
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  to our desire for lasting joy. Which brings us back to faith
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  itself and Hebrews 11.6. Without faith, it is impossible
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  to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe
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  that he exists and that He rewards those who seek Him.
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  Believing he rewards is part of the definition of pleasing
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  faith. It seems inseparable.
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  You cannot please God if you do not come to Him as rewarder.
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  So expecting God's goodness, anticipating His rewards,
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  finding our joy in Him. These aren't optional add-ons to
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  faith, they are integral to it. So the worship that pleases God
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  really is that hedonistic pursuit, that joyful seeking of
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  God because he is the reward. That's the conclusion drawn.
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  Approaching and faith inherently includes anticipating His
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  goodness and finding our supreme joy in Him alone.
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  That pursuit is worship. Now, this way of thinking, joy
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  and happiness as proper motives, it's not just a modern idea, is
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  it? The sources bring in historical
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  figures. Absolutely not new.
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  They highlight several key figures throughout church
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  history whose writings resonate strongly with this, often
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  standing in contrast to a purely duty driven morality.
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  Like Jonathan Edwards who we mentioned.
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  Edwards, writing even before Kant became hugely influential,
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  was incredibly zealous about pursuing spiritual happiness.
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  He actually wrote down a personal resolution.
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  Oh yeah, to endeavor to obtain for myself as much happiness in
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  the other world as I possibly can, with all the power, might,
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  vigor and vehemence. Yeah, violence I am capable of.
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  Wow, violence. He was serious about seeking
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  happiness in God. He absolutely was.
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  For Edwards, seeking his highest joy was directly linked to
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  bringing God glory. It wasn't a distraction from.
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  It and his idea about God being glorified by being rejoiced in.
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  That's crucial, the idea that our act of delight in God
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  magnifies his glory more than just knowing about him.
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  That's a cornerstone for Christian hedonism.
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  Our joyful response is key. OK, who else CS Lewis gets
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  mentioned? Right.
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  Lewis, in a letter, apparently wrote something quite startling.
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  It is a Christian duty for everyone to be as happy as he
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  can. A duty to be happy.
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  That definitely pushes against Kant.
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  It does. And you know, Luce often wrote
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  about joy, that deep longing, that stab of desire for
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  something more, which he saw as pointing us directly to God as
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  the only source of true, lasting satisfaction.
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  Chasing that ultimate joy was, for him, a divine command.
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  And there's Flannery O'Connor the novelist.
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  How does she fit? O'Connor had this great line
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  about self denial. She said it wasn't about giving
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  up joy, but about renouncing A lesser good for a greater.
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  And she had this vivid self-image with my ground teeth
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  stalking joyfully armed too, as it's a highly dangerous quest.
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  It's this picture of a fierce, determined pursuit of a higher
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  spiritual joy, not passive acceptance.
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  Stalking joy. I like that.
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  It implies effort, focus. Definitely.
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  And then there's Pascal again. His line about everyone's
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  seeking happiness? Exactly.
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  That provides a sort of philosophical backdrop.
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  It affirms the universal drive that Christian hedonism seeks to
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  redirect towards God. It says this isn't a weird
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  desire we have to suppress, it's fundamental.
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  So let's aim it right. And Hudson Taylor, the
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  missionary. His quote is famous I.
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  Never made a sacrifice. Coming from someone who endured
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  incredible hardship in China, that's remarkable.
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  How does that connect? It shows how profound
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  satisfaction in God finding such deep joy and serving Christ can
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  completely reframe suffering. What looks like sacrifice from
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  the outside doesn't feel like loss when compared to the
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  greater gain, the greater joy found in God.
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  It aligns perfectly with finding our satisfaction in Him above
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  all else. OK, so pulling this all
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  together, what are the practical implications for how we live for
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  ministry? Christian hedonism seems to
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  really shift the perspective on things like duty and joy it.
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  Really does it challenges that separation we often make.
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  So first, it rejects that disinterested ideal completely.
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  Utterly. It sees it as impossible, as we
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  said, but also undesirable because it strips out the very
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  affection God wants from us, the sources insist.
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  If you abandoned the pursuit of your own joy, you cannot love
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  man or please God. So pursuing joy in God isn't
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  just allowed, it's necessary. A duty even.
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  It's presented as the highest duty in a sense to delight in
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  God, who is supremely delightful.
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  That pursuit isn't self-centered, it's God centered
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  because He is the source and object of the joy.
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  And this connects back to the cheerful giver idea.
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  Yes, God wants cheerful givers, people who love kindness, who
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  delight in His law. As someone grows spiritually,
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  they should more naturally and happily do good.
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  Joy becomes a mark of maturity and not a sign of impure
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  motives. So our feelings are Affections
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  are part of obedience, not separate from.
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  It they are central to it, which leads to how we view the Bible's
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  promises. They're not just descriptions,
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  but motivations. Exactly.
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  Promises meant to clearly and boldly and hedonistically aim to
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  motivate our behavior. Jesus himself used the promise
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  of future reward to encourage present self denial.
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  Like selling everything with joy for the hidden treasure.
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  Or losing your life to save it. Right.
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  He intentionally motivated people with the prospect of
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  greater lasting gain and joy. So biblical morality isn't
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  disinterested, it's interested in something better.
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  Yes, interested in vastly greater and purer things than
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  fleeting earthly rewards. It encourages loving enemies for
• 21:30
  a great reward, helping the poor to be repaid at the
• 21:32
  resurrection, using money now to secure treasure in heaven.
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  These are presented as wise investments aims to pursue.
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  Correct. Actively seeking these eternal
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  benefits is part of faithful living.
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  And this all hinges on approaching God as the rewarder,
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  as Hebrew says. Pleasing worship is that
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  hedonistic pursuit of God and whose presence is fullness of
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  joy. It turns worship from a
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  potentially burdensome duty into a joyful feast.
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  OK, what about implications for ministry?
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  For pastors, teachers. This perspective is huge for
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  ministry. If you embrace Christian
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  hedonism, you understand that every single person listening to
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  you is longing for happiness. That's a given.
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  But. They're looking in the wrong
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  places. Often, yes.
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  As Piper puts it, the problem isn't that people desire
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  satisfaction too much, but that they are far too easily
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  satisfied with shallow, temporary things.
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  They snack on worldly pleasures instead of feasting on God.
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  So the pastor's job isn't to squash the desire for happiness,
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  no. It's to awaken it and direct it
• 22:32
  properly, to help people make God their God by awakening in
• 22:36
  them the greatest pleasures in Him, to help them glut their
• 22:40
  soul hunger on the grace of God. How do you do?
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  That by painting God's glory in vivid colors, presenting Him not
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  as primarily A taskmaster, but as the most beautiful,
• 22:50
  satisfying, endlessly fascinating reality in the
• 22:52
  universe, guiding people away from fleeting thrills toward the
• 22:55
  deep, lasting richness of knowing.
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  Him So ministry shouldn't just be about appealing to duty.
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  No, it should aim higher. It should persuade people that
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  finding their deepest joy, their most profound satisfaction in
• 23:06
  Christ and His promises, that is the path to true spiritual
• 23:10
  strength and a life that genuinely only glorifies God.
• 23:14
  Like Jesus enduring the cross, Why?
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  For the joy that was set before him.
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  Exactly. Pastors are called to lift
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  people's eyes to that kind of joy, to raise their affections
• 23:23
  toward God because he is most glorified when he is most
• 23:26
  enjoyed. It becomes a joyful invitation
• 23:28
  to come to Christ. And this view helps make sense
• 23:30
  of difficult verses too, like considering reproach for
• 23:34
  Christ's greater wealth than Egypt's treasures.
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  Yes, or being happier giving than receiving or counting.
• 23:40
  Everything is lost compared to knowing Christ.
• 23:42
  These only makes sense if there's a greater overriding joy
• 23:44
  and satisfaction found in Christ himself.
• 23:47
  Even Jesus saying his commands are given so that our joy may be
• 23:50
  full. John 15.11 Nehemiah the joy of
• 23:54
  the Lord is your strength. Or Psalm 37 delight yourself in
• 23:57
  the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.
• 23:59
  Or First Timothy 6 Godliness with contentment is great game.
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  It's a consistent theme. A call to a life aimed at and
• 24:06
  fueled by a deep, God centered delight.
• 24:09
  That's the heart of it. OK, so as we wrap up up, what's
• 24:13
  the main take away for someone listening?
• 24:15
  Seems like a call to really examine our own.
• 24:17
  Why? I think so to honestly ask, am I
• 24:21
  approaching God and doing good mainly out of a grim sense of
• 24:24
  duty, a stoic obligation? Or is there genuine joy, a
• 24:29
  satisfaction in God fueling? It it's an invitation to shift
• 24:32
  how we see God, isn't it? Definitely not just as the rule
• 24:36
  giver, but as the generous rewarder, the source of all true
• 24:40
  joy, who actually delights When we find our delight in Him, that
• 24:44
  changes everything about what glorifying God means.
• 24:47
  So if someone's been feeling guilty for enjoying serving God
• 24:50
  or finding pleasure and obedience, this view says that's
• 24:52
  actually a good sign. It says that joy isn't the
• 24:55
  problem, it's part of the goal. It encourages us to pursue
• 24:58
  happiness with all our energy, but to make sure we're pursuing
• 25:01
  it in God because He is most glorified when we are most
• 25:04
  satisfied in Him. It's quite liberating.
• 25:07
  So a final thought for people to chew on this week.
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  Maybe just this How could intentionally pursuing your
• 25:13
  greatest satisfaction in God change things?
• 25:15
  Your daily actions, how you worship, how you view hardships,
• 25:19
  how you think about living a good life?
• 25:21
  What might change if joy in God became the conscious aim?
• 25:26
  That's a great question to reflect on.
• 25:27
  Thank you for unpacking all that with us.
• 25:29
  My pleasure. And thank you for joining us on
• 25:30
  this deep dive on Reformed thinking.
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  Until next time, keep seeking your highest joy in God.