Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / A Crash Course on College Dance Program Auditions

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A Crash Course on College Dance Program Auditions · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact a Dance Competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Deciding whether to test your dance in college is a big decision, and here at Making the Impact, we can't wait to jump into today's episode between two college dance experts to give us an inside look into how the application and audition processes work, what dancers should be preparing for in high school, and advice to the parents to help their dancer navigate this exciting time.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone, it's Courtney Ortiz.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to your next episode of Making the Impact Season 8.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: I am here with my wonderful co-host, Leslie Mailer.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, listeners.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hello out there.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hi Courtney.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so good.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm enjoying the fall weather in New York City because it is October, everybody.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Happy October 1st.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Happy October 1st.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is the month of my year anniversary.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is the month of some awesome episodes here for you guys.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it is fall, and I'm a fall girly, so I'm super stoked for this time of the year.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: I live for a fall moment in New York.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: I love the jackets coming out.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, pumpkin everything.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: My favorite bagel place on the corner has pumpkin cream cheese starting October 1st.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great day for fall enjoyment.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, indeed.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And listeners, we have such a great episode for you today.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is one really for everybody, but specifically for our high school juniors and seniors, and even all the way down to freshmen to start thinking about college application process.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we have some amazing guests today to help us learn more about what this process looks like now.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, since it's been a minute since Courtney and I have done it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think you're really going to enjoy it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we know we needed to get this out in the fall so everybody could prepare properly for those college auditions and preparation.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So we're really looking forward to chatting with our fabulous guests.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, we have our sponsors to share with you.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: So let's hear from them.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Hey dancers, it's Courtney.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're 15 to 18 or in grades 10 through 12, you need to know about a life-changing organization called Young Arts.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the only programs in the United States that supports young artists across 10 disciplines, including dance.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: From ballet, jazz, contemporary, hip-hop, app, and even world dance.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: All genres are welcome and encouraged to enter into their national arts college.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: When I was awarded as a Young Arts winner of distinction back in 2007, it completely changed my life.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: I received mentorship from Dance Legends at Young Arts Week Miami, made lifelong friends and connections, and the scholarship prize helped launch and fund my dance career in New York City.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: And to this day, Young Arts continues to support its alumni with grants, funding, and even podcast sponsorships.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So now it's your turn to experience all that Young Arts has to offer.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Apply today to enter into their 2027 National Arts Competition before the deadline on October 6th, 2026, at 8 p.m.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Eastern Time.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Click the link in our show notes to learn more or visit their website at youngarts.org slash apply.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: This is a big topic of discussion.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: So many parents have questions.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Dancers have so many choices these days on different types of college programs that they can choose.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: And at Making the Impact, we have had many conversations about dance in college, if it's the right choice for you, how to make that decision.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: But we also have never really talked about how to even get in to those colleges and what the audition process and the recruitment process looks like.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and how to even decide which programs to audition for.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Is it better to go to a big, huge, a big, huge event that hosts a lot of opportunities to get in front of people, or is it better to go on site to the actual college department and audition in person and check it out?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: So lots of different factors here, but we wanted to put this in the fall.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: That way, if you are an upcoming junior or a senior who is making this tough decision or planning to go to some auditions coming up in the few next few months, then you will have the opportunity to be ahead of the game because we're gonna give you some tips and tricks straight from some of the people who are making those auditions happen on the podcast right here, right now.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: I am very excited to welcome two brand new guests to Making the Impact.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the first one is someone who I I have got to know through the past few years because I go to their college every single year and audition dancers, their senior dancers, the dancers that are about to break into the biz.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I audition their dancers with RWS Global, which is a cruise line company, for opportunities on contracts with cruise ships.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it's such an amazing time.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's also one of the most prestigious colleges that everyone wants to go to here in the United States.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we knew we had to have them on the pod.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a commercial dance college program, which I think is really unique.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so excited to welcome representing Pace University, Lauren Gall to the podcast.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Lauren.
• 5:56
  unknown: Hi.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: And fun fact to our world out there, this is releasing in October, but we are recording it ahead of time.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it happened just so happens to be the first day of school at Pace University for recording day.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I have no idea how Lauren is even here right now, but she's here on the pod.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Dancers, they do it all.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: We know how to show up.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: We get that call time, we're there.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: We are here, we made it happen.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Lauren, like I said, everyone knows about PACE.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like Pace has really been like a really an impressive, not only school but organization, a college program that everyone is seeking to attend.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, dancers are traveling far and wide to audition for the program that you are a part of and helped run.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I would love to not only get into the nitty-gritty of that, but first have you share more about you, your dance training, where you grew up, uh, some you know, quick little career highlights, and also how you got your current position at Pace University.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I am currently the chair of dance and musical theater at Sands College of Performing Arts at Pace University.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is my 19th year here.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I know I like started when I was like 10.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I grew up outside of Philly.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: I trained at my local studio.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: My dance teachers were uh actually really incredible, well-rounded background uh in jazz and tap and ballet.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I always knew that I wanted to go to college for dance.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: I started my career in a professional dance company uh in Philadelphia when I was 15, a professional tap company.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was a big tapper, and I really wanted a college that had tap as well as other things.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to OCU in Oklahoma and did my undergraduate degree there.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I immediately graduated school and got Radio City Rockettes, first audition, first try, and boom.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um kind of lucked out.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I did that for about 10 years.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was a Roquette swing as well.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the national tours and I also was in New York.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was a swing for the New York show.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I did a lot within the Rockettes.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And but it always my calling always was for teaching.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I actually never really wanted to perform, I really only wanted to teach.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Performing happened, and um I lucked out, and um, Pace University had started a very successful musical theater program.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was very young, just a few years old, and they needed dance faculty.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, at the time, Rhonda Miller and I had worked together um professionally a lot.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Rhonda said, Why don't you come teach the musical theater students at PACE with me?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I started.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I started teaching the musical theater classes.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't even a dance program here.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I could see the writing on the wall and knew that for me I always wanted to get my master's.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: I went back and got my MFA at Purchase College at the Conservatory of Dance, completed my master's.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I actually went back for another year of Rockettes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, in the middle of all of that, that's crazy.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in that time, I pace wanted a dance program.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they sort of said, you know, to some of the faculty, Rhonda, myself, and a few other people, like, can you guys do that?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, I just was doing this in my master's program.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So basically I created the program with I co-created, co-founded the dance program here.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here since the very beginning.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I basically made the program that I wish existed when I was going through school.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh huh.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the program I wanted.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it it evolved over time.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I've been here since the beginning.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I started just as um assistant professor.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually just got promoted this year to full professor.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a full professor as of today, I guess.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've like I said, I've been here 19 years.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here since the very beginning of the program.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I've sort of shepherded it through its like evolutions.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I just am very passionate about it and just really thrilled to be able to kind of make a difference in young artists' lives.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're definitely doing that because the program is wonderful.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can speak because I've seen it in action, not only the dancers who are ready to break into the industry at seniors graduating when I see them at auditions, but then also seeing them in a lot of their performances in New York City that I've attended.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: So uh the program is wonderful.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: And uh how when, just to give a little shout out, when are auditions for this upcoming year for the program?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So our fall intensive weekend, which is a mini convention, is our very first audition.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, the applications for that, you have to apply for that one specifically.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they actually close tomorrow.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So get if you're doing it, get your applications.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: But this is gonna be October, so we'll see.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's you missed it.
• 11:00
  unknown: Right.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's for next year.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, next year.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Juniors, though, they should the applications open July 1 and they close September 1.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that is our very first audition in the fall.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is on campus.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: You also get to see a show by our students, you get classes with all of our faculty.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a mini convention.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is October 2nd, 3rd, and 4th this year.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually in October each year.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the rest of our auditions really start in January.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there will be a January audition at our LA.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have a full semester in Los Angeles run by Mandy Moore.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I go out for the audition there.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the LA auditions usually the end of January.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then the rest of the auditions are in New York um roughly like end of January through the beginning of February.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And otherwise, the only other auditions would be at our summer partnerships with our um certain conventions and competitions that we go to and we do recruit at, NYCDA is a big one.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Dance Awards, um, Dance Makers, Tremaine.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the main ones I can think of right now off the top of my head.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry if I missed something.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And those are other locations where you can audition for our program early.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they do come with monetary scholarships at those sites as well.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone will get a scholarship, but you just know it immediately in the summer, whereas in the other ones you have to kind of wait to find find out.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is good to know.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: I hope all of the parents are taking down notes so they can plan ahead.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, Lauren, thank you so much for squeezing us into your first day of school today.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right, our next special guest who's joining us came highly recommended from one of our faves in IDA land, Maddie Marcatis, and that they are the founder of Dance and College Counseling, which I know is so needed in our dance world because I have to say, my high school counselor did not help me at all when I was trying to decide where to go for college.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: So to have a service out there that is strictly geared around dancing in college, I know that this is a really needed service for our biz.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm very happy and excited to welcome Ashley Thorndike to the podcast.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Ashley.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad to be here.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited to meet you and learn more about your service.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: But if you could share a little bit more about you, your dance experience, and also how you decided to get into dance college counseling.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually started dancing when I was 15 years old.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: My friend wanted to take a ballet class and didn't want to go alone.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, sure, whatever, I'll go with you.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And within two months, I was dancing five days a week.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was crazy.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: I had found my thing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, my thing was ballet, and I was 15, as I mentioned.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that time that timeline was a little bit rough, but thankfully I quickly went off to the Bates Dance Festival, and then I found modern dance, and then I just knew like I could have cool lines and roll around on the floor.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I went to the univers I went to the University of Utah, um, which was an incredible dance education.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I moved to New York, I made work, I kept moving, and I wanted to do more.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I did a master's degree in counseling at the University of Virginia with a focus on student affairs practice and higher education all that time.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: I um kept dancing, and I'm also currently a licensed counselor in the state of Maryland, so I'm able to keep that work focused on dancer mental health and doing workshops around that.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't enough dance in college for me.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to Ohio State, the Ohio State University, um, where I was the first person to do a PhD in dance studies.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the emphasis of my dissertation was dance in higher education.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So looking at the history and the lived experience of dancers in higher education.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was on the admissions committee at Ohio State, ran the graduate student auditions.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I then went on to work at several universities, um, and for 10 years ran a nonprofit organization where we brought together professional dance artists, college dancers, and middle schoolers.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: All that time doing a lot of career counseling, career advising, advising families on dance and higher education.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I also work as a consultant to dance departments on things like marketing and accreditation and dancer mental health.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, kind of all the pieces, this is really my thing.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you're exactly right.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whether it's high school counselors or independent educational consultants, the world of college admissions is so big that when you layer on top of it, the um not only the specific process of dance admissions, the fact that with dance, it's unlike musical theater where it's somewhat standardized, it's different for each school, and schools range so much in what they value, what they offer, um how it's structured.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: So there's really a lot of um education involved.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so sometimes families meet with me for the whole two years, sometimes just one time, sometimes they seek resources that we provide through our Instagram, but trying to educate dancers on the fact that it's generally a longer process.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: You have to start earlier, and you often don't know until later in spring of your senior year.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: But you also learn so much about yourself, yourself as an artist, yourself as a learner, yourself as as a person full of possibilities, that it can be really exciting and a process full of growth.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people end in a much different spot than where they thought they were headed.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I wish I had had you back in the day.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I had pace and I wish I had you, Ashley.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I had both those things so you could have got me into pace and I would have gone to the right college for me that I needed.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we all we all fit the need that we needed.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, one of the focuses of my company now is helping dancers who are interested in double majoring or having minors or thinking strategically about their careers because now I'm old, I'm 48.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm might be the oldest one in this club.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but when I was in school, they were like, you're in or you're out.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: No minors, no double majors, no that I even was discouraged from finishing the honors program because it we were just dancing so much.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now things, shout out to Utah, totally different now.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: They have people double majoring BFA and ballet and and physics degrees.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um tons of pre-med.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's much different.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: But back then it was like it's dance or it's nothing.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the way the industry works is it it actually really helps if you can do more than just kickball change.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like we're all kind of a product of that era.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we I just looked up when the pace program started, 2011.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: The internet told me right.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I graduated.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was after your time.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was after my I was well into my career, you know, before that even existed.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, so I think it's so great that like number one, Ashley, your service and other services like it exist.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lauren, you used your professional experience from so many years to create a program that you wish existed.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're in such a ripe, rich time for dance and dancers to be able to do exactly what they want in whatever way they want.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I just can't wait to dive into this conversation.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have to go, Leslie.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: You got this.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, you go.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: We have a million questions.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so there's just there's so many options, like we said.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are we, what are maybe let's do like a top three from each of your opinions.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, top three things to look for when you are thinking, I want to be a dance major.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking for reputation?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking for offerings?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking for price?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are the things that you think should be considered as a first stepping stone into which kind of program you're choosing?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody can go first.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll jump in and then um I don't want to overstep.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if Ashley, feel free to go.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um the next one, you'll go first.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll tag to you.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say listen, reputation, there is something to be said for it, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: There are schools out there that have been around a lot longer than us and have an alumni base that can showcase some of the breadth of what they can do.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I also don't think that that's the only thing you should be resting on because we're a younger program.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're only whatever 13.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do math.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I gave it up.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like we're only like what, 13 years old or so.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: But in that time, our reputation has exponentially grown.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to look at like current rankings and how those things are.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think reputations with like a grain of salt or whatever they say, a grain of sand, because it's it it can't be the only thing because there could be a reputation that maybe hasn't grown or developed with the times, and that's like a very real thing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say for me, what I tell people when they come to Q ⁇ A's is look at the curriculum.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Look at what you're actually required to take, not electives, what you are actually required to take, and does that fit in with your potential career career goals, as well as looking at what the current alumni are doing and what the faculty are doing and where they have their hands within the industry, um, you know, where the the alumni are landing, because that shows you, you know, like I always say for us, part of our job actually is removing the stigma of what a commercial dance program is.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Which sounds funny, because we are the first titled commercial dance program in the country, and that's very much what we do.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not actually all that we do.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of students in companies, we have a lot of students doing and creating work.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to look at that to get a better view of what that is, and also that should be embedded in the curriculum, in the required courses, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And look at look at the details of those courses.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also say for me, and and I and again, don't mean this in a any sort of disparaging way, because I really do believe there's a place for everyone, even if it's not with us.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But look at the genres.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there used to be a big push in higher education that you went into a genre of dance.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is not necessarily my philosophy about where we need to be going in dance.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it should be more diversified.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say look at.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That because I've seen students get into programs that they're like, well, I have to either be a ballet major or a modern major or a this major.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if that doesn't suit you, then I would be very clear on where you're where you're going.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and on the one other flip side of that is also looking between liberal arts and conservatory.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those are also two very different things and they have a very different meaning.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're in a conservatory, you can only take classes within that conservatory.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to take something in the acting conservatory, the musical theater conservatory, you have to actually audition to get into those as well.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas a liberal arts school, with many other programs, like kind of similar to pace, some of our students take classes in the musical theater program here, in the acting program.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: They can cross-pollinate a little bit more.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's something you're looking for, make sure you're clear on like, or like what Ashley was even talking about with double majoring.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Those types of things can happen at liberal arts schools more than a conservatory.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the big definitions of figuring out what you want and where you want to land.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for me.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Blah blah blah.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely agree.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: The the way I start with dancers is that we sort of we start kind of by knowing what we don't want, might be what we're not trained for.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: It might, you know, like with some people we're gonna take out the ballet programs, or some people we're gonna take out, you know, certain types of programs.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing what's just not a fit, and then knowing if there's some things you just know that you don't want, we can eliminate that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe a family wants to stay within an eight-hour drive, or maybe the student really wants to be somewhere beautiful because they need to have outdoor time.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so starting with what you don't want, and then I really agree with Lauren in terms of, I mean, dance is an interpersonal art form.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: So who will you be studying with and what will you study?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes families look at faculty bios to look at who the what the faculty did in their professional careers.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually want people to look at what the faculty are doing now.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So what is their research now?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: What are their connections now?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: What opportunities do undergraduate students get to be involved in faculty work?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: That is really useful.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to be discerning and be broad in terms of how you define faculty because at some schools they're just a couple of full-time faculty members and an enormous adjunct roster, or there are incredible guest artist programs.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: So really taking a deep look and kind of understanding what opportunities are there.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then the third point is for students who know that who know that they want a double major, who or who know that they're interested, say, in the business side of things, making sure that you're looking at an institution that makes sense for your broad academic and artistic goals.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're always talking academic goals, artistic goals, and financial fit.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the pieces that are most important from the beginning.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: As we go in the process, we start to figure out more about like vibes and feel and can I see myself here?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you don't want to figure all that out at the beginning, or I think I think there are about 175 NASD accredited programs.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like college in general where there are thousands.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't want to rule out too many things from the start.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: We want to stay open-minded.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I'm just like being flooded with memories of this process for myself.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like again, we had limited options, you had limited resources.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had to send in a video tape in which my mother is sending me now to digitize because I'm like, I know that point park audition somewhere on a VHS tape somewhere.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um my gosh.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what you just brought up a really good point that like never even occurred to me during my time doing this, which is what is the faculty doing now?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and we see this now with PACE specifically.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Lauren and Ashley, I work for Capizio, I do product testing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've used a bunch of PACE students um who may be in some of my shoes currently.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we'll see.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a lot of the reason I know specifically for PACE and a lot of your city-based schools, people want to go there because they're exposed to current working artists in the city that they're living in.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that creates opportunities outside of the school as well.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's that is not something I ever would have thought of when I was a high school junior or senior.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like, what an amazing thing to start thinking about that early.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Young Arts is the only national organization that champions artists through their lifetime and across all art forms, feeling the ongoing vitality of the arts nationwide.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: Their national arts competition is open to artists ages 15 to 18 who are currently in grades 10 through 12.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Selected winners can receive catch awards, mentorship from leaders in the industry, a lifetime of professional support, and the prestigious honor of being a young arts winner.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: As a previous young arts winner myself, I highly recommend that you check out this fantastic program and opportunity for your dancers.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: It truly is life-changing.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: The deadline to apply for their 2027 National Arts Competition is Tuesday, October 6th, 2026 at 8 p.m.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Eastern Time.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: Learn more about young arts and start your application today by clicking the link in our show notes and visiting youngarts.org slash apply.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I, when I was making my decision, which I went to Marymount Manhattan for one semester, wasn't the right fit for me, unfortunately.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I knew I wanted to be in New York.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time in 2007, there weren't many I mean, there were, there were, but I only got into Marymount Manhattan.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: That was my only option.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I obviously we haven't even gotten into the whole aspect of, well, you you audition you want to go here, but you didn't get in, or you auditioned for all these places, but you know, you only got a s little tiny scholarship for this one and a big scholarship for this one and that decision aspect of it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we can get to that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: But for me personally, that was I I made my decision strictly based on I want to be in New York City.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it was the school that I knew wasn't the right fit for me.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was the school that gave me the least amount of scholarship money, but I was so stubborn that I knew where I wanted to live and be because of what New York City can bring.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and honestly, it was a little bit of like what New York City can bring outside of school for me when I made that decision.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: I just needed to get there, you know?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then I was just like, okay, I'm gonna hit hit the ground running.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now that's not the best advice to give to every dancer because I think that if I would have been in an actual like university style, like on a campus setting, I think I would have actually embraced college and and really went for it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: But my personal journey was I had the city at my fingertips and I couldn't even and think about like, I have to go to school right now.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, I want to go to an altition, I want to go to steps.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I think it was I think it would have been different if I would have been at a school like Pace where it had like exactly what I needed then.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and my program at the time didn't.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't, it wasn't where I wanted to go.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I wanted to do Broadway or commercial, you know.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think finding, like you said, finding the right program for you, looking at the type of curriculum that you'll be doing, if it's aligning with your goals post-college, that is very important for for dancers to think about and not only just where is it located and and those things where, you know, I I and I truly had no guidance, absolutely no guidance when I was making that decision.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: So now we have resources like Ashley's and many others out there that can help guide you.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so for dancers that are and parents that are looking for that, I think it's a it's worth the investment.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so speaking of auditioning, right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like Leslie, you said you sent in a videotape for your audition, which like do does that do do we still do that?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Do we do self-tape audition videos?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: We do absolutely okay.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Just different, it's not an actual VHS.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's don't do that.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's an online application with the submitted movie file that's edited.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I expected it, but I guess maybe a good question is, yes, that does exist, it sounds like, but what do you or what do you think the uh colleges and universities prefer more?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do they mind that or do they want to see dancers in person?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a preference there?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: It depends.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that simple.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some programs that are video only, like for equity reasons.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: The department has decided this is the fairest way.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: They exact they ask for exact things and they are very used to evaluating by video.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: There are some programs where they offer a ton of audition times, they see your address is within an hour, and then you send in a video, and they might think like, you didn't really prioritize coming in for an audition.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're all the way on the other side of the country or the world or something that certainly dance faculty members are not going to hold a video-based audition if they give it as one of the options for you.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's some programs that say you can audition by video under special circumstances, so then you might ask for a reason.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of in general, we advise dancers who can to go in person to the earliest audition for their top choices.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um because, you know, especially if you get there and you realize, wait, this isn't my top choice or something.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's an advantage to going early.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: At some schools, you'll find out earlier.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: At some schools, you still don't find out till the end of the process.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Again, there's a huge range.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then also a lot of schools um do a pre-screen.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll video um and then you'll be perhaps hopefully invited to the actual audition.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that saves that saves families a lot of travel money if you um aren't gonna make that first cut.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it really depends.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: But make sure your your video should be like thoughtful, have a nice clean background, wear contrasting colors.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just like um turn on your iPhone and start videoing, but it's also not sometimes families ask me if they need to hire a videographer to do their pre-screen, and absolutely it's not a place you need to spend money.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: An iPhone will do the job.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: Tripod and an iPhone and some good lighting.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say um most I sit with a lot of the other colleges on panels a lot too.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think there's um the mostly the BFA programs, I would say, have some sort of pre-screening process that's video based.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: They all vary differently how they are, but it you for us it for at Pace, it's um you have to submit a jazz pre-screen video that we teach you.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: We want to see that combination.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with ballet.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then we also ask for a solo in any genre, as well as a wild card video.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um those can be anything.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've had kids like show me their paintings that they do.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've had kids cool dancing in the supermarket.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I like that one.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had they wanted to show that they also could sing, or they submit another dance video that shows me a little bit more about them that is usually very revealing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because we're seeing these jazz and ballet videos, and maybe somebody submits a contemporary video as their solo, but then they submit like a tap or a hip hop, and I'm going, wow, they have so much range.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's an opportunity, the videos, whatever the school's asking for, look at how many they're asking and for what.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also look at the school, right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe for I I love contemporary, don't get me wrong, and we do a lot of it here, but maybe if you are a tapper or like an incredible point dancer, like submit that thing that makes you special, right?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or that fits in with what you think that school is.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I hate to say that because I always tell the kids, don't do what you think I'm looking for, because I'm just looking for you.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just want to know who you are.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: But by when I say what you're they're looking for, it's because it's the curriculum, right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe don't the hip-hop video to the modern only school, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or the tap video to that school, but maybe to pace you would submit it, because that makes you really intriguing to us, because we're looking at broad ranges of skill sets, because that's what our curriculum is.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that but for me and for most of the colleges I sit with, um, in-person auditions is what we really look at.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: We do some video only if there's a financial constraint, particularly for an international student.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, we would or an injury.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: We would never want anyone dancing injured at an audition.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: We will always accommodate those special scenarios, but for us it's very much about the in-person audition, but you have to be past the pre-screening point to get invited to the audition.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, I mean yeah, I can only imagine how many you get, submissions you get with interest each year.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like around a thousand, but we only see about four hundred in person.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then how many do you accept into your program?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thirty-six.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thirty-six.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh how many graduate typically?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh pretty close.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um gosh, last year.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think we were at we're usually around thirty, sometimes thirty-two.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes twenty-nine.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: It depends.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: I will say the major reason that we lose students is um injury, career.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Career ending.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: A career, a severe injury that and it's usually on very amicable terms.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like we want people to have great lives, you know, yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And not be injured for the rest of their life.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have a pretty high grad.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's great to hear.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean that's really that's what you want is somebody to start and finish and say, like, I accomplished that and this was the right choice.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was the right place for me.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Everything here fell into place.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's really exciting.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm glad that I that you answered that as to how many people get accepted, because it just to put it into some realistic terms for everyone out there to know just how competitive it actually is, especially with some of the the big schools that a lot of people are looking at saying, I'm gonna go here.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yes, absolutely.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's already an achievement if you get invited to the audition.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you you got through that pre-screen of a thousand people.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's an achievement in itself, but you also have to be realistic to know that there are only 30-some spots in this school.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of dance programs have similar numbers, and it just depends on the size of the schools.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on uh, and and that's another factor if you want to look into are you looking for individualized attention?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: How big is the program?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Is the program huge?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Is it small?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is it highly competitive?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Is it selective?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Is anybody welcome?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like the level of dancers that are getting into the program, like all of those things are part of the research, whether that's you as the student researching or mom and dad helping research that to really find what's the right fit for you and to be realistic as well.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, we can shoot for our the stars, but you have to have some backups as well.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: We that's I I've talked to a lot of dancers that said, I'm auditioning for this one school because that's where I want to go.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, but what if you don't get in?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: We have to have some backup plans.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Man, well, what about what would you say?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I want to I want to make sure we get a little bit more from Lauren before we have to lose her.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: So Ashley, I want you to answer just two, but I want Lauren to go first.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are you finding?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we we obviously are a dance composition podcast.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of competitive dancers that, you know, are our target audience.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so many, many more now colleges do not look down like they might have used to on competition dancers.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: However, what skills do you find that your incoming freshmen, whether these are life skills, personal skills, or dance skills, are kind of missing as they come in from competition land into a more structured everyday.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're dancing every day.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: We also have to maybe take dance history and pedagogy and things like that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are they missing anything in particular that our juniors and seniors can really start to hone in on this year as they move, you know, towards college?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a really interesting question.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: The dance world has changed to acknowledge that the competition and convention world has value.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there's pros and cons with all sides of it, as we all very well know.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: But there are some great dancers in that world.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they have a lot to offer.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um that's the thing that I think there is a passion and a thirst for performing and getting on stage and like creating and being a part of things that I think the competition kids have innately because they're doing it every weekend.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, okay, back up.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing my like 10 pieces this weekend.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Ready.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're like ready to go.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think the thing, and again, I say this with like embracing where everyone's coming from, because we are very much pace, and this is really the founding philosophy of the program was we are not a break you down to build you back up program.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is not what we're doing.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have a very 21st century mentality about who are you?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: What can we do to help build your skill set and diversify them and push your boundaries to take you to other places you never thought you could go?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's our philosophy.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so with that, I I say that because I I don't want this to come off disparaging, but I do find to some degree the students are lacking basic skills in class taking.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: If there's one thing I tell people all the time, they say, How can I prepare for college auditions?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Take class and take class from a lot of different people, not just your dance studio teacher.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because you need to know how to take class from a stranger in jazz, in ballet, in modern, in contemporary.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: You need to know how to adapt on the spot.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the convention kids are good at that with actual material when you get to the combination, but they're not good at it in regards to the like warm-up process or jazz across the floor.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what happened to that?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: We get here all the time, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ballet bar.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be able to take those parts of class as well as the combo.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the one part of the convention world that I think gets a little lacking to some degree.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: And again, not in disparagement to anyone, because it is the nature of how that has to function.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta go learn a combo and do it in a giant group of 200 people.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: How are you gonna do ballet?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: But class, the number one thing you can do to improve your chances of getting into a school is taking class because your audition in person is going to be a class.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ours is a ballet class, a jazz class, a hip-hop class, and a tap class.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: We see all four.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can't take those classes, it can be hard for you.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest I don't that's the biggest struggle, I think.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really great advice.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Ashley, do you agree?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: I concur.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, you're thinking in in an audition, they will be watching your plas and your behaviors at the bar towards the person next to you.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: How do you adjust your body to make space for someone else?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: The the etiquette of of technique class, not just picking up combinations, but of actually learning to train your body is really key.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other piece is that I think that the dance competition world runs on a lot of mom labor, and I understand it, but making sure that your child is ready to go away to college and advocate for themselves and keep keep themselves together and ask questions themselves.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: The the top thing that I hear, I talk to three to four dance departments a week just to be hearing things is that they're like parents are calling at the front office and asking us questions.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like parents are calling faculty members, like and so really teaching your dancer, it's a little bit easier in the ballet world because often ballet dancers go away younger for bigger chunks of time, but learning your teaching your dancer that they are the one that needs to speak up is will really help with the transition to college.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that advice too, because I think even even with some of what I do with product testing and going into studios and speaking to the kids, they they just want to please you.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: They just want to be not a problem.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I need your problems.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me what's wrong with your shoe.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me you hate it, tell me the heel's too short.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you need?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they just they they just can't advocate for themselves.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell them all the time, like, I didn't make this shoe, I didn't design it, you cannot hurt my feelings.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are you're here to help this be better.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think even for themselves, like that's got to be a scary skill to kind of grow into before you go to college is to say, hey, this doesn't work for me respectfully.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, how can we work together to make whatever the issue is better?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's really great advice.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I really love what you said, Lauren, about the way a dancer is taking class.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's the point of an in-person audition in my eyes.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just to showcase your technique and to see you just in the flesh and see what you look like and whatever.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's I'm observing how you are in the room.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have etiquette?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know how a class structure flows?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get received the proper training in what this could be a very beginner level ballet class?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: But do you understand like how to reverse the combination?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Do you understand like where your arms are supposed to go, like in different pathways for our porta bras?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of studios have eliminated proper ballet classes.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then these dance dancers are think they're going to go audition for BFA programs and have never took a proper ballet class in their entire training at a lot of studios because they've replaced it with what's called a technique class, which I don't even know what that is.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: And have never done an a progression across the floor or, you know, just different things that, like, even once you graduate college, you're still going to be judged on those things in professional auditions.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we as studios, I think it's very important, especially if you're a dance studio uh teacher that is guiding dancers into college, prepare them properly.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure you're giving them the tools so they don't walk into these auditions completely blindsided.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, what is this type of ballet class I've never taken before?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like expose them to that because yes, I agree.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think that convention has a lot, a lot of value.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: But again, it's it's a little bit more of a commercialized way to look at it, where a lot of programs, even commercial dance college programs, are going to have a little bit more of a conservatory style feel in an audition process.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: So to make sure that we understand what that entails.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not just always about picking up choreography fast with the star quality.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think a lot of people think the accolades of, well, look at my dancer's resume, look at all these awards that they've won.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: They're obviously good enough for your program.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but they couldn't get through that ballet bar at all.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the first cut, unfortunately.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: Or they were tripping on their feet for their pot of berets across the floor, but they their solo is impressive, you know?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to think about like when does that shift happen in training?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I think that it, especially in the high school years for studios and dancers, they should be really emphasizing the the class taking abilities and different styles.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious because I only really know how my college worked.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I assume pace might be similar.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I want to know Ashley from you as well.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So like OCU always with there were eight levels of dance program, you know, per per genre.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: You had of the level one, which was the lowest level, level eight was the highest, and then you had some beyond basic, like early beginner dancer levels that like musical theater people tended to be in, people who didn't didn't have a lot of dance experience.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: But there were people from every year of college in all of those levels throughout the whole time, um, which said to me, you know, OCU believed in growing people from wherever they were at, right?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't just accept the level eight dancers because then you just wouldn't have a four-year program.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have a bunch of people who were kind of ready to go work.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are there are there programs out there that do accept just your first place winners, if you will?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like what does that look like?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was not a first place winner dancer.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I got into this school because I I believe I had somewhere to go and they saw that in me.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how most college programs are?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there is there something that's like you're only gonna get, you know, the top, the top people from every state for per se?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's a good question.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: There are definitely schools like that, for sure.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the conservatories, they are very interested in a very specific thing, which tends to lend themselves to some of those top level dancers.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: We are also very interested in those dancers as well, but we don't have a cut in our audition because we actually want to see everything.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's not all great, we still want to see it because we might get to that tap audition and go, oh my god, they're a prodigy.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: There is something worthwhile here that we can train.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we're probably the most different of the other schools.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, we're looking at technique, we want great technicians, but not all the time.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Technique only goes so far far.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: I it's like I was sort of saying this the other day, like talent and skill aren't the same thing.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Technique is skill, but if there's no actual talent or raw magnetism behind it, it's only going to take you so far in the industry, in my opinion.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the in-person audition is very important for us because it's actually sometimes more about the energy and the magnetism of the person than everything they're doing.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: They have to have something that makes them special, right?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's that they sing, maybe it's that they're an incredible hip-hop dancer.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, can't we change someone's life by training them to do these other things that can give them more opportunities than maybe they would have?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's how how we look at our auditions.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's pretty unique because really most schools you're seeing you're doing a ballet and a modern audition only.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I think that kind of answers it.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: It does, yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's very enlightening.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Choreographers and teachers, when was the last time you got a critique?
• 48:45
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• 48:52
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• 48:54
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• 49:02
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• 49:14
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• 49:21
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• 49:27
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• 49:34
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• 49:45
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• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: There are some schools that want certain training, they want to undo it and rebuild it.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: It just it really depends on the program.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's some programs that run by cohort, so they are looking for their next freshman class who is going to take this a sequence of classes together for the next four years, so they need them to mesh well.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: There are other schools that do placement each year, so they can take dancers with a range of different who would place in different levels at different in different techniques, and there's more flexibility.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: So again, very program specific.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I I bring that up just because like I was, I mean, I was, I was, I was good.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was good enough to get into OCU, which I think says something, but I certainly was not level eight when I walked in.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for for this day and age, with the students who are out there seeing everything on social media, they're seeing just turns, turns, turns and leap, sleep, sleeps and tricks, tricks, tricks.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it it I would, I would personally, if it was me now, feel very despondent about my chances of getting into a school.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so knowing that there are schools out there that say, hey, our freshman class looks like this.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: You could be a part of this because we're gonna take you to the next level.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's why you're here is to learn and grow and train, you know, just like you were at your studio.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: We just are taking you all together at one time.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like to those dancers out there who are who are not winning that first place trophy every time, there is also a place for you in college dance.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, there's just so many opportunities now.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: And there are wonderful non-audition dance programs.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to dance in college because you love dance and want great training, there are programs that are by philosophy non-auditioned.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's still placement, there's still lots of levels of class.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can if you have been dancing, you can keep dancing.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you've never danced before, you can start dancing in college, and not as a major probably, but um, but there are lots of opportunities to dance.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been talking a lot about the audition and like sort of the getting in process, but there's other things that come along with the audition and the application, not to mention, we haven't even mentioned, you have to get into the college itself academically, in order to also then audition and be accepted into the dance program.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so number one, you got to do that.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of the dance part, how important is it to have a professional headshot?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: What does your resume need to look like if your resume is I went to a dance studio my whole life and there's maybe not not a lot else there?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can you advise on a couple of those things?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I love dance photographers and you should absolutely invest in a professional headshot when you graduate from college and head into the professional world.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're auditioning for college, the only function of your headshot is to make sure that the panel can remember you and put a face to a name when they're discussing it.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: So all that matters is that you look like you will in the audition.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, ballet dancers should have their hair back, you know, look how you're how you're going to look.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can take it with your iPhone outside in front of a brick wall.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that is not a place where you need to spend money.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: For resume, I can actually share.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have a video of a template that I can share with your listeners of how to put in um, and it has a couple of different um types of dancers.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so your resume is sharing your training.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Again, this is not something you need to invest in um extensively, but keeping track of things.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: One thing dancers can do starting freshman year of high school is make sure they're keeping track of things who they've studied with, what they've done.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but your resume can include who you've studied with, what genres you've studied, and for how long, what summer programs you've done.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: It can also include dance-related work if you've had a teaching assistant job, or if you've been involved in service projects, um dance mentoring projects, or performances in community centers, those sorts of things can all go on your dance resume.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, letters of recommendation, some programs ask for.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: I wish they wouldn't, because it just adds more work and stress to the process.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: You do need teacher recommendations for many schools for the academic part, but those teachers are very used to the uploading process on those.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sometimes dance departments ask for dance references.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it's not standardized.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Each school is going to ask for different things, and the best use of your time is for your top five programs to make sure you really look very carefully at what they're asking for and follow the instructions.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: And all of this now, lucky people of 2026, is available on the internet.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to like call or write in for a packet of information because that was real.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: It sure was.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're also, you know, when you can go to um admissions fairs or um some of the mass audition events at summer um conventions um or nationals, sometimes you have a chance to meet with a representative from the university who can point some things out.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those auditions can function for acceptance or can um take the place of a pre-screen.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes you don't need all of the additional material.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it's really school by school.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so yeah, we've love that.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say we've applied, we've done all the things, we followed all your advice.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: We got into like six schools.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some of us gave us a lot of money, some of Good job.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud of you.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: That part's over.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now what?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are we how are we thinking about weighing the balance of scholarship money versus you know all the things that that come into play once you've been accepted and you actually do have to make the decision?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um so sometimes family's come to me just at that point.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: Usually I've worked with people along the way and we've built up to this decision and we're ready for it.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we um but sometimes families come to me just at that point.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: How do we make this decision?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that you pointed out one of the big um kind of mental errors that we make is we think, how much scholarship money did I get?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: What we want to ask is what is the total cost of attendance?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if you get a$50,000 scholarship at a school that costs$100,000 a year, and you're also accepted at a school where you got$1,000, and you're like, thanks a lot, guys, but the school costs$30,000 a year.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that$29 is still a lot less than that.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: So even not try and schools have different amounts to give, and they and there's a real difference between we could do another whole pot on it, but financial aid, academic merit aid, artistic aid.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Some schools don't do any aid other than needs-based.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: So there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: And those awards, while they can feel really good, you can't compare the awards against each other because that reflects more the university's kind of structure and finances.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: What you want to be comparing are the total cost of attendance, including like um, you know, things like travel or lifestyle or housing and how great of a fit it is.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because if the$30,000 school is a really bad fit, then you've also still wasted$30,000 a year if, you know, if you go and it doesn't work out.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: So thinking about like the best match between a financial fit and the school where I feel like I can grow.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is this a community where I can grow and learn?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: And there are some cases where there are two schools and you love them both and they're both financial fits.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point you just need to make a decision.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you need to, you know, once you say yes to someone, you withdraw your application from the other place because there's some other dancer waiting for that spot.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so sometimes you just decide, sometimes it's a really hard decision and it takes time.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you know, you can also you can go to admitted student stays, you can ask at that point they really want you.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: You can ask for a meeting with a faculty member, you can send a question and notice how quickly it's responded to.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: There are lots of pieces to the decision-making part.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it can be stressful.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the the dancer and one parent and the other parent all have kind of different hopes.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um that hopefully we've built up to to a place where you have several good options and can make a choice.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: What a what a fun and exciting time of life.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was, I just remember it being, yes, it was stressful, but like you're, you know, you're talking about the rest of your life, and these choices are gonna change your life, you know.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm one of the things that I am really glad I was able to do was talk to a student who was from my town who were was already at school there and got, you know, sort of the down low on what yeah, what was going on in the program and you know, her personal opinions and everything.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I that was and that's e even easier now than it was then.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely a a thing you can do.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: Go look up a dancer that you admire that goes to that school, shoot them a message on Instagram, say, Hey, I'm introducing myself.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm interested in going to this school.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: What do you love about it?
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: Can you give me how's your time been?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't be afraid to do that work and m create those networking opportunities and also research on your own to the dancers.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, Leslie, it's it's so much easier now to find out where people are going to school and who's going where and all of the things.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely possible.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was something I did even like during audition life.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm 4'11 and I have a certain look.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I needed to know, okay, well, who's who looks like me out there doing the work I want to do right now?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whose role am I gonna step into when she has a baby or when she goes on tour and leaves this Broadway show?
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you can do that for colleges too.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, do they take short rolls?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then I can say farewell to you, on to the next one.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Figuring out a fit, like, will this school have opportunities for me?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes a school is sometimes a school is trying to shift.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you look back at what they were doing five years ago, it's kind of different, but they really want you, and you might ask, like, how do you see me being a fit here?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they might be like, Oh, we just hired this person and we're starting this new initiative.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you realize, like, oh, okay.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so knowing that departments evolved.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: At a good point for time, too.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think this has been a wonderful chat, and we have covered a lot of aspects of dancers who are preparing to maybe start making moves.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, auditions happen, selection process of where to go to school, and all of the parents that are extremely stressed out at the same time because it's it's definitely a lot.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: The parents are heavily involved in this decision with their dancers.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are a in high school, if you are a at minimum a sophomore, you should already start thinking about these things so it doesn't sneak up on you once you hit your senior year and you're scrambling to figure out what auditions to go to and where to go.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: So start asking around, start doing your research, start following the school's programs on social media if you have access to social media.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that way you can see what they're doing, see what they're posting about.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great way to get in as well.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: And uh don't be afraid to ask those questions and find a resource like Ashley's or others out there that can help guide you in the right way.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it is really important to have someone that's a completely unbiased opinion that is outside of it's not your parent, it's not a friend, it's not your dance teacher, it's someone who specializes in in helping make these decisions possible.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that is so, so important and I think gonna be a really valuable resource.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, Ashley, first of all, thank you for being here till the end with us.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for creating the service for our dance community.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: And how can people learn more about your program?
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you can go to danceandcollege counseling.com.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: We have a learning center with lots of blogs, some written by my fabulous interns.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can find more resources there, get on our mailing list, and we also try to provide a lot of uh education on our Instagram at DanceandcollegeCounseling, sharing information about getting into college and then what to do once you're there.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um so those are the best ways people can always reach out to me directly too.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Ashley, I would love for you to lead us out on this episode.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_03: Any final thoughts that you want to share with the dance world out there?
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think that as dancers, when we're in high school, we are often focusing on narrowing in order to refine.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: And college is really an opportunity to take all of this hard work that you've done and begin to expand and broaden.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: And the piece that I want all dancers to do, that's why it's we've called ourselves dance and, is to be interested in things and how they relate to dance.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: So find out things that you're curious about about the world, and then question how do those interact with movement and art and the body, whether it's uh movement science or international diplomacy or accounting or whatever it is, there's so many fields out there that are enhanced by the dancer's knowledge, by our creativity, by our engagement, by our hard work and diligence.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so knowing that there's a whole world of possibilities out there for you.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's such a wide audience, actually.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think my one thing I would say about dancing in college is believe that you can do it.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think as dancers, we get a lot of no's and we look at the person next to us all the time and we go, well, I'm not like her or I'm not like him.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're you.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: That might be exactly what they're looking for.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: So just try it, put all your cards on the table, go for it, and like shoot for your dreams because a college like Pace, we take a wide breadth of different students.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're actually interested in.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh some of the other colleges are doing more of that now too.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're really seeing that there's a big advantage to broadening the pool.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I truly believe in that because I think it's really about accessibility and opportunity.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it really comes down to can people actually believe in themselves?
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: I hear so many of my freshmen say, and I'm about to go see them all right now, if they have one minute, I didn't think I would ever get in.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: Who told you that?
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're we want you to be good, right?
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: We want you to be on our team.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think people think we sit behind that desk and are like, oh, we don't like them and we don't.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: That actually takes a lot of negative energy.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have time for that.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think most people do.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to be great.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: I want you actually to be here.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, yeah, I I think that about wait lists.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: Kids look at wait lists as I didn't get in.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, from your perspective, but our perspective, it's actually a yes.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a yes in an order, right?
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you flip that perspective and tell yourself you can do it.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have anything to lose except for trying.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you might make some great connections along the way.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode all about college dance programs.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out to our special guests, Lauren and Ashley, for joining us on this chat.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow them on Instagram.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: You can find Lauren at LG Funk2 and Ashley's Dance and College Counseling program at Dance and College Counseling.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: Also stay connected with Pace University's commercial dance program on Instagram at Pace Commercial Dance.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:06:25
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• 1:06:27
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• 1:06:31
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• 1:06:37
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• 1:06:46
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• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Star Talent.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: They are delighted to continue their collaboration with Impact Dance Adjudicators, featuring IDA judges on all judging panels.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_03: Star Talent holds events in West Virginia, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia, with their national finals set to be held in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: Their competition was designed to foster a positive dance environment for both recreational and competitive dancers.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: Their goal is to create an atmosphere that is enjoyable, organized, and fair for dancers, teachers, and parents alike.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: StarTalent emphasizes that competition is about striving to become the best dancer you can be, both in performance and attitude.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: Awards are given based on categories and divisions with high score awards categorized by three levels.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: For more information about Star Talent and to register for an upcoming event, visit their website at StarTalent Productions.com or check out their Facebook and Instagram.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Coming up in the next few weeks, look forward to a throwback episode, a chat about strength and conditioning for dancers, and an ID8 spotlight.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_03: Stay tuned next week for some more fantastic episodes on Making the Impact podcast.