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Unreasonable Hospitality = More Than Cars with Will Guidara · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  [upbeat music] Will, thanks for joining us today. This is definitely a unique environment, I think, for all three of us to be in together in matching T-shirts. I love it, man. [laughs] Threw it right on.
• 0:16
  Dude, I lo- well, I threw it on because I love it. Yeah. And I love it for a bunch of different reasons. But chiefly is my entire... The thing, if you distill my book down to a single idea,
• 0:29
  it's that I believe everyone, regardless what you do for a living, can make the choice to be in the hospitality industry simply by being as unreasonable in your pursuit of people as so many different companies are solely in pursuit of product.
• 0:45
  Mm. And I think that is, well, a huge opportunity for more people to have an unbelievable competitive advantage. 'Cause too many people reserve their greatest efforts, their most unbridled creativity,
• 1:01
  um, just for the thing they're selling and don't invest in it. Or, like, I think maybe... I don't know.
• 1:07
  My perception is maybe some people could read Unreasonable Hospitality, or see you speak, and go, "It's an unreasonable pursuit of a moment," right?
• 1:16
  Like, how do I create a moment, as opposed to how do I care for the person? And what- Well, yeah... I mean, you can- One is a means to the end. One is a means to the end. Right. Exactly.
• 1:26
  And- It's about investing in relationships. And the moments, a lot of the time, it's like when you go on a date.
• 1:32
  In the beginning, sometimes it's the big flashy gestures are the right way to kinda kick things off, but that's not the beginning and the end of that investment, right? It's just one part of it.
• 1:42
  That's the path to the more nuanced understanding of what matters to the person. Yeah. It, the, the nuance is actually of the hospitality gestures- Mm-hmm...
• 1:49
  or gestures in any relationship is where the true meaning be- happens, and I guess until you have the big flashy moments, you can't understand the...
• 1:58
  Like, you bring out what the person likes, doesn't like, believes, doesn't believe. Yeah, you don't always need the big flashy moments, right? But I mean, if, if the situation rises- I mean, dream big or go home, right?
• 2:10
  [laughs] Yeah... why not? Why not, why not take it? But sometimes it's the smallest ones that are the most profound, that have the greatest impact. Like,
• 2:19
  when you go into a restaurant and they want you to feel loved, a lot of the time what they do is pour you a glass of champagne.
• 2:24
  And a lot of people, myself included, don't necessarily like to begin their meal with a glass of champagne. If someone actually just walks up to me and says, "Hey, we would love to welcome you with a drink.
• 2:33
  What are you in the mood for today?" That's a very, very small gesture- Mm-hmm... and already feels so much more hospitable- Mm... because they actually, it's more of a dialogue than a monologue.
• 2:43
  It's not just like, "Look what we can do. We're trying to impress you." It's- That's right. The champagne is more like, "Look what we did for you." Yeah, yeah. "Look at, we just poured you expensive champagne."
• 2:50
  Expensive. You're glad you're here, aren't you? And now I'm like, "Well, I don't wanna be rude, so now I have to drink the glass of champagne." [laughs] Which I know this sounds like catty.
• 2:56
  It's like you got free champagne, but- But we're talking about the nuance. Yeah. It's all in the nuance. So, you know, you said you, you love the shirt. Love people more than you love cars. What about it made you...
• 3:07
  You looked at it and you said, "Oh yeah, I like that." I'm gonna wear it. Well, that, I mean, that's my entire thing. Care more about people than you do the product. Yeah. Like, you look across disciplines,
• 3:20
  and the people that are the most successful
• 3:23
  are that successful because they are relentless in their pursuit of the thing that they are selling, whether it's a designer, whether it's a producer, whether it's a tech entrepreneur, whether it's an athlete.
• 3:36
  They're just in pursuit of their own talents. And that unreasonableness is celebrated. Mm-hmm. And yet when it comes to actually pursuing people, it's not something that's talked about very often.
• 3:49
  And that's my entire thing that I'm trying to, like, push out into the world. And so I walk in, I see you guys wearing these shirts, I'm like, "Yes." My people. Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:56
  And I want to tell that to everyone in every industry. Love people more than you love insurance policies. Love people more than you love whatever. Yeah. I think we've heard people over profit, like, a lot. Yeah.
• 4:09
  People, people say that. It's a saying, people over profits. Um, I don't know. There's an element of the nuance of, like, the tangible thing that maybe changes the game a little bit in it, like fill in the blank.
• 4:20
  Cars, policy he brought up. But I think we can get caught up in being addicted to a feeling even, right? The feeling of, the feeling of saying, like, the champagne moment. "Oh, look how great we are," right?
• 4:36
  There is a nuance there into why, what your motivation is for doing something for other people. Now granted, when you do something nice for somebody, it feels really good. Yeah. Right?
• 4:44
  People say, "Why do you give your dog a treat?" 'Cause my dog likes treats. It's like, no. 'Cause you like your dog liking treats. Um, and so
• 4:52
  I think there's a nuance in there that you try to lead people to in the book, and, and you do a really good job of explaining what you were thinking as you were making these changes and how you were trying to lead people.
• 5:02
  Hmm. How do you bring people from this thought of, like, "Isn't it great that we just did this amazing thing for a person?" How do you walk them down the path to, like, "This is why it matters"? Hmm.
• 5:17
  I'm thinking of your phrase when you say the nobility of service. Yeah. I mean, there's a few questions in there. Yeah. And I'm gonna, like, tick them off, and maybe I'm gonna even answer one that you asked.
• 5:28
  Do whatever you want. But, okay, one thing that people ask me constantly is, how did I sell my team on a vision? Um, I'm a good salesperson. I am. I, like, I can sell people on pretty much everything, and I think that is
• 5:43
  a superpower and a villain story at the same time. If you're too good a salesperson, you need to be very careful about how you use your ability to sell people. Absolutely.
• 5:52
  Um, I think too many leaders try to sell their teams on a vision 'cause...
• 5:58
  And the reason I say too many is if you're too good a salesperson, you can convince people to start pursuing something that they have no desire to pursue.I think actually what it means to lead people through change is to articulate as best as possible where you are going, and then invite people to join you.
• 6:16
  The key difference between selling people on an idea and inviting them to join you as you pursue an idea is in the latter case, people can RSVP no. Mm. And that's fine.
• 6:26
  That doesn't mean they're wrong, it doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means that what you want and what they want are not the same thing. Right.
• 6:33
  And when someone RSVPs no, it's much different from you kicking them out of the party later. Right.
• 6:37
  But that's also still hard because, like, especially when it comes to change management, you know, and, and when we work with auto dealers or talk to 'em, on our, in, in our vertical is, "But I don't wanna lose anyone."
• 6:49
  Is, is it, is it... When, when it comes to, like, change management or a vision, there's this constant kickback 'cause, like, "Well, but I'll lose people if I go that way." And
• 7:00
  it is, it is a scary proposition to know that there's a chance that you might lose someone because they're not aligned with the vision. Well- I feel...
• 7:07
  not only is there a chance you're gonna lose someone, it's almost- You will [laughs]... guaranteed you're gonna lose someone, and that's fine. In fact,
• 7:15
  if you don't lose anyone, it means you weren't connect, convicted enough in pursuit of your mission that you decided to start kind of flexing it and bending it to keep everyone happy, or
• 7:27
  it means that people have stuck around to be a part of something that doesn't actually make them super happy. I- it's the same thing when we evolved our restaurant. We had to fire
• 7:39
  some of our regulars as well as some of the people on our team. 'Cause we were this, we wanted to become this, and invariably- Yeah...
• 7:47
  that was no longer the thing that some of our customers wanted anymore, and it was something- But what about them who show up for this? They've been showing up for that for 10 years- Yeah...
• 7:54
  and now we're about to take that thing away. Yeah, that's a part of it. Right? It's the pain of growth. So- But, and like, you can't,
• 8:02
  you can't never pursue the place that you know you're trying to get to just for fear that you're gonna lose a few people along the way. Now,
• 8:11
  the key is being as responsible and mindful and communicative as possible such that you're not just leaving people in the dust.
• 8:22
  But like when I give someone the ability to RSVP no, what I'm also giving them the ability to do is to, to work with me as I help them find another job, right? And help them find the place that's right for them.
• 8:33
  And listen, if you, if you believe in an idea, you need to trust in the fact that there are other people out there who are gonna believe in the same idea. And
• 8:42
  no season of change is easy, but if you believe enough in what you're trying to accomplish, you need to pursue it at all costs. I think this is, you know, Seth Godin would, would call this finding the others. Hmm.
• 8:54
  Um, Simon Sinek is also someone who is, is very good at this, and people seem to make their way toward him because of these ideals and these beliefs that he puts out into the world.
• 9:04
  Uh, the two of you have a relationship. Yeah. Um, and obviously you're the first book, uh, published in his partnership with Penguin. Uh, it was Penguin, right? Yeah.
• 9:11
  Um, so give us a little backstory of your relationship with Simon. I think it's interesting. [laughs] This is such a good story. I don't know if I've ever told this on, on one of these before.
• 9:22
  So I- Well, good, because when we were like, "What do we want to happen?" We're like, "We want Will to tell a story he's never told on a podcast"- [laughs]... and you literally just said those exact words.
• 9:30
  This, this is it. Um, I have a conference called The Welcome Conference. Right.
• 9:34
  It's become kind of the most significant conference purely dedicated to hospitality in the country, and I started it 12, 13 years ago in this little basement or auditorium in the Lower East Side.
• 9:46
  Now it's in the same place that the New York Philharmonic plays, in Lincoln Center, so it's become significant. Um,
• 9:54
  one night I was not in the restaurant, and one of my sommeliers texted me and said, "Hey, Simon Sinek is here." And I've always loved Simon's work, and I was like... But I couldn't get to the restaurant.
• 10:06
  Whatever the circumstances were, I was not gonna be there, and so I said, "Crush him," which is our language for like- Your version of, "Give it all"... go all out. [laughs] Like, make sure he leaves. Crush him.
• 10:16
  [laughs] I love it. [laughs] Like- Two words... crush- Crush him... crush him... send. Right. [laughs] Um, and the next day I was like, "So how did it go?" Da, da, da, da, da. And he was like, "We crushed him."
• 10:28
  [laughs] I love that verbiage. And so then I had my assistant somehow find his email address, and I emailed him and I was like, "Hey man, I'm Will and I own Eleven Madison Park. So happy you're here.
• 10:38
  I'm so sorry I missed you, but I hope you had a good time and it'd be awesome to meet one day." I knew we crushed him, so I knew he was gonna write back. You were ready. Yeah.
• 10:46
  [laughs] So he wrote back and he was like, "Da, da, da, da, da. Yeah, I would love to meet." So we set up a coffee. We had coffee at my other restaurant, The Nomad.
• 10:53
  Now, I already knew I was asking him to speak at The Welcome Conference. Right. [laughs] The Welcome Conference, it, like, we don't charge much for the tickets. W- it's not a place where we can pay speakers like- Yeah...
• 11:03
  what they normally get. Six-figure fees. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 11:05
  So he came with his sister, Sarah, who they run the business together, and we had an awesome time, and at the end I made the ask and he's like, "Yeah, we'll think about it," and he left.
• 11:14
  And very clearly, and I know this now 'cause he's told me the story back, having in his head said no, but was just gonna give it time before someone else reached out to me and said no. Now- [laughs]...
• 11:28
  at the same time, Simon Sinek is, like, in my head and I send a couple of his videos to all of my managers in the entire company to be like, "Hey, this guy was at EMP.
• 11:37
  These are the messages of his that really resonate with me. Just watch them. I'd like you to think about them, talk about them in your pre-meals.
• 11:44
  Um, and if he walks into any one of our restaurants, I wanna know right away." So we had a restaurant in Aspen. Uh, it was a pop-up just for the winter.
• 11:53
  And one night I get a, an, a text message from one of my managers, "Simon Sinek's in the restaurant." Now, he was there with a table of six. That was an expensive restaurant, by the way. Sure.
• 12:03
  [laughs] Um, some of those in Aspen. Not under his name.So for him, the idea that he would've been... Anyway, they had the meal. They asked for the check. Someone goes over to him and says, "Mr.
• 12:15
  Sinek, your, your dinner is with Will Guidara's compliments." [laughs] He was there with Sarah. Apparently, as he tells the story, he leans over and he goes, "Well, I guess I'm speaking at the fucking wealth conference."
• 12:26
  [laughs] [laughs] So- That's perfection. I can see him adjusting his glasses- Yeah, yeah... as he says that. [laughs] In, in the sine- Sinek way.
• 12:35
  So what- So then he came and spoke, and w- we've become very, very close friends since then. He's really close friends with my wife. And, um,
• 12:43
  and I spoke at his thing, like, a year and a half later, which is not a big conference. It's like a salon basically. Mm-hmm. It's- Yeah... 30 people that get together in Aspen once a year.
• 12:52
  And of those people that gather for conversation and kind of really thought-provoking idea sharing, he asked a few of them to talk, and I was one of them.
• 13:01
  And after I gave my talk, he and Adrian Zackheim, which is his publisher, said, "You have to write a book." Hmm. And I said, "N- I don't have time to write a book." So it synthesized there.
• 13:11
  That was our next question- It wasn't, it wasn't like-... was like how, how did it co- it wasn't you just, like, ginning up the idea. It was right there. No, no.
• 13:16
  They said, "What you just talked about, write a book about that." Huh. I was like, "I don't have time to write a book." And then in 2019, I sold my company.
• 13:26
  Was about a week away from ramping up another big restaurant company, and COVID hit. Then two months into COVID, I was like, "I don't want to start a company right now." Hmm. "I wanna write that book." That's cool.
• 13:41
  So I called up Simon and said, "All right, I'll write the book now." [laughs] Deal. He was like, "Great." That's awesome. "There's no more speaking engagements right now. I don't know if you noticed."
• 13:50
  [laughs] [laughs] So he, his premise of Start with Why, right? And that was kind of his breakout. How would you explain the why behind Unreasonable Hospitality?
• 13:59
  Because you talk a lot about the what, and but I'm curious on what, what is, what was your why that you started with that you want other people to adopt or at least consider?
• 14:08
  Well, I mean, you referenced the nobility of service. I think that's a big part of it. Explain that for a second, like the nobility- It go deep- 'Cause- Go deeper on that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:17
  It's, that can be a confusing phrase, I feel. So listen, I, I think that it's very important for the people on your team to know why their work matters, right? Like, why it's important, the whole thing with Simon. Um,
• 14:32
  and okay, in restaurants we sell food, but that's not actually what we're doing. In restaurants, especially the kind of restaurants that I've run over the course of my life,
• 14:42
  we have the ability to help people celebrate some of the most important moments of their lives. Conversely, we can give them the grace, if only for a few hours, to forget about their most difficult moments.
• 14:54
  We can inspire people through our attention to detail or our creativity to be better versions of themselves, or if I'm getting super soapboxy, but I really do believe this,
• 15:05
  we can make the world a nicer place just by being really fricking nice to everyone that walks through our doors. I believe
• 15:13
  we have this unique opportunity, perhaps even responsibility, to create our own little magical worlds in a world that needs more magic. Now, that doesn't happen
• 15:27
  based on the quality of what you put on the plate. Right. Um, I believe the food, the service, and the design, they're simply ingredients in the recipe of human connection.
• 15:41
  When that connection happens, that's when that magic is created.
• 15:46
  There's this quote by Maya Angelou, I, I quote her all the time, "People will forget what you do, they'll forget what you say, they'll never forget how you made them feel." Um, that's what we're in the business of doing.
• 15:59
  And yeah, you need great food, you need all the stuff, but... And in many ways, like, excellence in product is table stakes, right? Yes. You can't run a great car dealership- That's-... if you're selling shitty cars.
• 16:09
  Anything, right. But to be the best, that stuff is just table stakes. So you have a belief that regardless of what you sell, right? You talked about food and your time in hospitality.
• 16:23
  But the ability to make someone feel that, um, is, is kind of like transcends whatever you sell or whatever interaction you have with people.
• 16:33
  And it's almost like with Unreasonable Hospitality, you've, you've found a way through Eleven Madison Park and, and the other restaurants to almost make that magic, like, part of process, and, like, bring those two together.
• 16:44
  I mean, automotive's huge on process, and it seems like re- great restaurants are huge on process. Yeah. But it feels like you brought those two things together so they can be repeatable maybe. Well, yeah.
• 16:54
  I mean, like, when you, like, really think about how you give people the kind of memories that stick with them, it has nothing to do with any of that stuff, right?
• 17:04
  Like, I've bought or leased a bunch of cars over the course of my life. And as I think back, I'm a busy person, I have a busy life, details start to get blurry.
• 17:13
  I don't actually remember which dealership I was at with which car. Um, but I know there's a car dealership in Kingston, New York, where they have a playroom.
• 17:23
  And there, I went in with my three-year-old daughter, and there was a woman who- Nice... worked there who took my daughter in there and just spent like 30 minutes playing with her in this playroom.
• 17:33
  And I'll never forget the name of that dealership, Romeo Chevrolet. Hey. I don't remember the name- Shout out... of any other car dealership I've ever worked with. I remember the kind of car they sold. Right.
• 17:43
  But I don't remember the name of the dealership. Right. I don't remember anything about it. But you remember that.
• 17:46
  But they did something a little extra that made me feel seen in that moment, that made me feel like I belonged in that moment, especially with kids. I mean- Oh, yeah...
• 17:55
  you feel like you're just consistently interrupting the world. [laughs] Absolutely. Right? And like- Here we go. [laughs] Third. Here we go. And so when someone actually, like, not only tolerates that- [laughs]...
• 18:07
  but they celebrate that. Celebrate it, yeah. That's a beautiful distinction. And-I mean, that's a whole different philosophy. The best way to love on someone is to love on the people they love. Mm. Um,
• 18:21
  I'm not even sure what question prompted this and where we're at. We talked about systematizing- Yeah... hospitality. Well, yeah, and, and I think that's one of the things that I'm,
• 18:30
  you know, picking up from the book and just hearing this, and then also kind of pulling it into our industry is, you know, you said industry does love process.
• 18:40
  And, like, the restaurant is full of processes, and I think sometimes people can feel like, "Well, if I don't have the perfect process, then they won't feel it out of that process."
• 18:51
  Or conversely, like, uh, how can process elicit a feeling? And I, I think that, and, and maybe talk through this a little bit, is how process actually clears the way
• 19:08
  to make space for those moments of- Yeah... th- those special moments, right? Well, okay, a couple things. One, how process clears the way, and then how process amps it up.
• 19:20
  Like, the playroom at that dealership was systemized hospitality. Yeah.
• 19:24
  Like, they just took a little space and actually designed it purposefully for a recurring moment that they saw where people were coming in there with kids, and they might as well just put into their system, in that case into the physical plant- Hmm...
• 19:37
  something to elevate those experiences. Um, I think as it pertains to how you can change process to clear the way for these things,
• 19:49
  one of the things I talk to people all the time about these days is auditing your rules and procedures. Uh, uh, most car dealerships I've dealt with,
• 20:00
  you can tell I'm following a set of rules that was put in place a long time ago, and I'm sure made sense then. Some people call that the path to the sale. Yeah. Whatever it is. To the sale. [laughs] Right?
• 20:11
  Here's how you walk everyone down. And you have to go sit down here, and then this person can't do anything until this happens, and then this happens, and then this happens. And, um,
• 20:22
  I mean, I went into a place, I just wanna, like, I was ready to just buy the car. You had your armor on, right? You're like, "I just want this." I, I just want this. Give it to me. I- I'm not gonna negotiate the price.
• 20:33
  Just let me get in and out. [laughs] And it was like two hours. Um, in most organizations, rules or policies or whatever don't get removed. They only get added. Mm-hmm.
• 20:46
  And the only way they ever get removed is if someone on the team has the tenacity and persistence to cut through the red tape for long enough to convince someone that that thing no longer deserves to exist.
• 20:57
  I think customer service as we know it would change forever if every guest-facing business in America on an annual basis did a rules audit where they had to go through every one that exists and prove why it still deserves to exist.
• 21:09
  Hmm. Um, and we would lose a significant chunk, but let's say only 2% of them went away. Rules and policies stand in the way of employees feeling empowered and guests feeling cared for.
• 21:24
  And so I look at some of the experiences I've had, and there's a lot of fat that could be cut pretty quickly. And by the way, it doesn't take much. N- nothing I talk about is hard. Yeah.
• 21:37
  It just requires caring a little bit more and trying a little bit harder. Well, I think the function of it is not hard, right? Like the actual activity of it is, is not hard. But the pursuit of it is hard.
• 21:51
  Because- It's not complex, right? It's not complex. I call it simple but not easy. Simple but not easy maybe. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's not hard. It just requires trying harder. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 22:00
  And I think it's, uh, I'm, I'm leaning in on that to say, okay, running a marathon, that's pretty hard for most people. Right. Yeah. For me. He's a runner.
• 22:09
  [laughs] Doing, doing a- He's like, "I understand the rules, you people"... doing the rules audit is not hard. Right. You just need to decide you're gonna do it. Yeah. So, okay, let's, let's dig in on that a little bit.
• 22:20
  I just got done reading, um, Walter Isaacson's biography of Elon Musk, and Elon has an interesting, um, phrase they call question every requirement.
• 22:30
  And because he started, you know, building spaceships and a lot of requirements, v- vehicle manufacturing, a lot of rules and requirements.
• 22:37
  And he basically said, "Anytime you run into something that says you must do it this way, you are to question it. You are to find out who put the requirement in place.
• 22:46
  And if you can't find out who put it in place, then we're gonna discard the requirement." Hmm.
• 22:51
  "Because that person's long gone, and we don't know why they put it there, but it probably isn't applicable," he said, "as long as it doesn't violate the laws of physics." Um, so as you say, like [laughs]
• 23:02
  and there you go. Well, I would say- I know... if there's no reason for it to exist and you can't find the guy who made it [laughs] And, and- And... and, yeah, I'm sure there's some, some basics in there.
• 23:11
  But no, I'm trying to tie that back. When you say, like, do a, do a requirements audit or rules audit, what things would you look for when you, you say, "Okay, here's a rule.
• 23:21
  How are we gonna hold that rule on trial and see if it, and see if it belongs here or not?" What are some of the approaches you would take? Like, what are some of the questions you would ask about that rule?
• 23:29
  I mean, it's, there's no, like, pre-written list of questions. No, I'm just- It's more like, does this still deserve to exist? Is there any reason why we should be doing this? I'll give you an example.
• 23:39
  I write about it in the book. Um, I came up in more casual restaurants before I ended up at Eleven Madison Park, and I think it was actually that
• 23:49
  I didn't have the experience of working at the highest echelon of fine dining that enabled me to do everything I did. It was that beginner's mindset. Um, but I got there after some other people had already started there.
• 24:00
  Remember, I worked there for a while before I bought the restaurant, and then invariably or inevitably sold it.
• 24:06
  Um, and so some of the people working for me had considerable experience, and there was one point where, um-I went over to a guest who had been a regular at one of my restaurants, and- Leaned in [laughs]...
• 24:20
  I went over to the table. And I was like, "Hey, welcome." Like, "I'm so excited you're here." "Yeah, I'm here now, too. Da da da da da da da." He's like, "What are we, at the Ground Round now?"
• 24:26
  [laughs] I did, I do this with intention. Yes. Yeah. My entire role is to break the boundaries between me and the people I'm serving. Now, I have a thing I talk about all the time, which is you need to earn informality.
• 24:39
  I'm not gonna go up to your table for the first time and do that. I, I need to- You had a relationship already... I need to be invited in. First name, right, yes. No, I already had that.
• 24:46
  I'd already earned informality- Yeah... with him. But my challenge to my team was to earn informality with every table such that- Quickly... you should feel like you are allowed to do that.
• 24:56
  Anyway, I did it for the first time, it was, like, a week after I'd started. And- [laughs]... I go to the service station, and the service director at the time comes up to me. And
• 25:04
  even if people have never experienced this, you can relate to it. My subordinate, very angry at his boss, me, and telling me I'm not allowed to do something. And so, like- [laughs]...
• 25:15
  there was this anger, but he was, like, maintaining composure. He said, "Y- y- you can't put your hands on the table." I said, "Why?" He goes, "'Cause we don't do that." Because you can't put your hands on the table.
• 25:27
  And I was like, "No, but explain to me why, why not?" And there was no real answer. The real answer was, "Because that's how it's always been done." Dangerous phrase. In any business, yeah.
• 25:39
  Well, and if, and if that's how it's always been done, if that's the only answer why something is done a certain way, that thing deserves a second look. Now, maybe there still is a good reason.
• 25:49
  He just didn't know what it was, and so it's not like you just throw things out the window- Right... willy-nilly. Like, you need to actually then interrogate the rule. Um,
• 25:59
  but yeah, m- a lot of people that worked for me in the years to follow put their hands on people's tables, um, because I think it's an...
• 26:07
  If you're, if you earn that informality, you receive that invitation, it's a way to just, through physicality- Well, became, it c- the rule actually flipped.
• 26:16
  It became if you're doing it very right, you should be able to do this- Yeah... as opposed to you can never do this. I- if it feels right to you.
• 26:23
  And that, and that's the thing that I really evolved over time, is in the beginning, I'm constantly walking this line between being, like, very OCD, perfectionist, and having this
• 26:35
  innate desire to empower people to be who they are. Mm-hmm. Those two things are not friends, and so- Yeah [laughs]... I'm constantly falling off in one direction or the other and then having to rein myself in. But, um,
• 26:47
  I want the people, I want... If you engage in a business that I run, I want the people that are serving you, and this is not a restaurant, any business that I run, to be their most fully realized selves.
• 27:04
  I don't wanna be served by a server. I wanna be served by a human being who just happens to know more about the thing he's selling me than I do. And so
• 27:13
  I would never tell someone that would've looked awkward or felt awkward putting their hands on the table that they had to. [laughs] Right. The rule was earn informality, and then do with that what feels natural to you.
• 27:26
  Yep. I, well, first of all, when you meet Patrick Abad, y'all are gonna be friends skipping down a little hallway at some point. Yep. We'll introduce you to him. [laughs] Okay.
• 27:37
  Uh, he's, like, some of the words that you've said, like be the best versions of themselves, and you know. Yeah, he's the general manager of a, a big Toyota dealership in Atlanta. Oh, cool. Yeah. Uh, so,
• 27:49
  oh, man, I got all excited about that 'cause I can't wait for you [laughs] to introduce yourselves. Um, I, uh, I just lost my whole question. Oh, that's fine. It, it really stinks. It happens.
• 28:01
  'Cause I feel like it was a good one. Patrick- Oh, it was... Patrick, if you're listening to this, apparently you and I are gonna be friends- [laughs]... but it's your fault that he lost his train of thought.
• 28:07
  [laughs] Yes. Oh, that actually, that's actually a normal thing in our, in our relationship. So I respect you, and I'm looking forward to meeting, but, like, shame on you. [laughs] Shame on you.
• 28:15
  Have you ever seen, uh, A Christmas Story, the movie? Yes. You remember the scene where the kid gets his tongue stuck to the flagpole? Yes, yes.
• 28:22
  When you're saying the rule has to be that way, here we have the kid, and Ralphie licks the pole.
• 28:27
  Or it wasn't Ralphie, it was one of the other kids, and he's stuck there, and he's in agony, and he's in pain, and the bell rings. And he's like, "Well, you gotta go," right? He's like, "But, but the bell rang," right?
• 28:36
  [laughs] Like, there's nothing else that exists in the world that's a higher authority than the bell. Yeah. But the bell rang. Like, but you don't put your hands on the table.
• 28:43
  I'm thinking of some of the, like, you know, you think Ritz Carlton, um, you probably know a lot more about this than we do, but they're known for empowering their people. Yeah.
• 28:51
  Um, and I think even giving their, if you, if you're eating at one of the restaurants, they empower, they give their servers, uh, a budget.
• 28:59
  Say, like, "Hey, we want you to spend this in a way that-" Yeah, Pret A Manger does that, too. Pret A Manger, like, there's an amount that any cashier can comp on a daily basis. Exactly. I read an article about that.
• 29:12
  I, at the time, there was a Pret A Manger, like, around the corner. I went there for lunch every day for three months. Trying to get comped. Never had a sandwich. [laughs] Trying to get comped. Never had a sandwich.
• 29:22
  [laughs] You just did, you look too happy. So here's the thing. Like, "This guy doesn't eat anything. He's good." Here's the thing I wanna say about that. Some companies do this, right?
• 29:30
  There's, i- it's now increasingly common that people are given m- the amount of money that they're allowed to comp. Discretionary budget, yeah. Um,
• 29:39
  where I think that could be strengthened is to change the language that they have to use. Mm. Mm. I think our graciousness budgets need to be thought of differently than every other item.
• 29:56
  Where are some of the gaps that you're seeing particular- c- particularly as you're kind of encouraging already folks in our industry? I just think there's so much opportunity to, to really
• 30:14
  zero in on the... I mean, here's the thing about when you get a car. I think about my-The cars I've gotten over time, and I'm, I now have a three-year-old and a one-year-old and a big dog.
• 30:28
  [laughs] The order they came into my life was the big dog- [laughs]... and then the first kid, and then the second kid. So I remember my first car when I first got a license, right?
• 30:37
  And it was the car my mom had driven for years and years and years, which two years later was run into the ground and just didn't work anymore. [laughs] And then I got my first real car from a dealership,
• 30:49
  and, like, the freedom that I felt, right? Like, that was a significant moment. Yeah. Um, and then I moved to New York City after college. I didn't need a car, and so I sold that. And, um,
• 31:04
  then the first real car you get is, like, when you get your country house. I had my country house, and we got a dog, and so we got a Jeep Wrangler, two-door Jeep Wrangler. Me and my wife, dog would go in the back.
• 31:14
  Then we had a kid. That didn't really work anymore. Wranglers. And so then we got another car. Back to the dealership. [laughs] Yeah. So we got a four-door Jeep Wrangler. I was just gonna say that, the four-door. Um,
• 31:23
  and then we had another kid. That didn't work anymore, and so then we got a Tahoe. Oh, yeah. [laughs] Um,
• 31:30
  and then I realized that the amount of stuff we were lugging around the trunk of the Tahoe when you have the third row- Not gonna work... it d- doesn't really work. Yeah.
• 31:37
  And so then, like, recently, I was like, "All right. I'm sick of getting a new car every, like-" The biggest one you have... "14 months. I... Give me the Suburban." [laughs] Expand the Suburban. [laughs] Absolutely.
• 31:45
  And by the way, like, there's a thing I want to do in business, and when I accomplish that goal- What are you gonna get? I, I wanna get, like, an old, perfectly restored Land Cruiser.
• 31:59
  That's, like, the car that I'm gonna get. That's amazing. [laughs] Um- So I'm driving a Land Cruiser. He's got one for you. I'm actually, I'm drive- driving Gary Vee's Land Cruiser. Oh, really?
• 32:07
  'Cause when they needed something, they called me, and I was like, "I'm buying the trade." So yeah, I've become a Land Cruiser guy. And they- But, like, you know, the old- The old ones are unbelievable...
• 32:14
  the old ones with, like, the back... My point is- Every moment was significant for you... the car was an exclamation point for every moment. Yep.
• 32:28
  And when you think about the why, what makes the work important, that's a big part of it. Like,
• 32:37
  if you sell people their cars, and if you are good enough and investing in those relationships such that you get to walk down life's journey with those people from the very beginning until the very end, you are there to help celebrate every single one of those moments.
• 32:52
  And by the way, there's so many moments left to come. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.
• 32:55
  There's gonna be the moment where my kids go off to school, or when my kids turn 16, I get them their cars, and then they go off to school, and I trade in my big car for, I don't know- Whatever... Porsche or something.
• 33:08
  [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Right? Like, whatever it is, you guys are there. Yeah. And the biggest... It's not a gap.
• 33:15
  It's an opportunity, and there's so many little details, like ideas, specific, actionable things, but the big overarching thing is to realize that you're in that business. Yeah. That's the business you're in. Yeah.
• 33:29
  Cel- celebrating life's moments. You are there to help, like, exaggerate and articulate life's moments. Mazda... Well, you'll appreciate this. Mazda did a commercial a few years back that was essentially that.
• 33:42
  It was, like, progressing through, you know, got my small Mazda 3, and then I had a, you know, maybe 20s- Would this commercial make me cry now? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. This is one of those.
• 33:51
  It was like, and then every single, you know, iteration of growing up was brought to you by- Well, and there was a car- Vehicle purchase, right? There was this... What was it? The, um...
• 34:05
  There was, like, the old Jeep Wagoneer or a Do- there was a Dodge commercial. Like, the girl goes over to her grandparents' house, and the grandma is kind of, like, in a quasi-coma state. Okay. Trying to remember.
• 34:19
  Oh, you gotta find this commercial. It just came out like three months ago. And it's- Does she remember? Like, she takes her on a drive- And then she drives around the drive- I do remember that. Yes...
• 34:25
  and she starts remembering all the memories she had. Yeah. Yeah, that was one. So, okay, great. The marketing people get it. Yeah, right. That's irrelevant.
• 34:33
  The opportunity is to take that and talk about it constantly at the dealer level.
• 34:37
  One of the things that, like, that is a fundamental part of my belief system is that what gets talked about within the four walls of a service environment is what gets thought about.
• 34:46
  I think if I were advising someone who ran a car dealership, like, what to change tomorrow, it's implement a daily huddle on a daily basis.
• 34:53
  Spend half of it talking about whatever logistics and process-oriented things you need to in order to keep the trains running on time, and spend the other half on this stuff. You know, that- Yeah. That's a huge thing...
• 35:04
  one of the things that you d- you haven't brought up, and I think it's something that's often ignored, and, and we talk about this, we're gonna be talking about it at our event,
• 35:12
  and it's focusing on the service department. In the industry, we call it fixed ops. Because people interact with the service department far more than they interact- Mm... with the sales department. And not only that,
• 35:25
  y- in... The auto industry is strange. Like, when they come to a, a fine dining restaurant, they're expecting to have a good time.
• 35:32
  When they come to a car dealership, they're expecting to have a contentious time, typically. Especially in service, because something's wrong.
• 35:37
  And if they come to service, they're only there because they can't be somewhere else. Right. Because something's wrong with the car.
• 35:43
  And so we've been talking a lot about how moments of hospitality and the impact of hospitality could be more frequent and more surprising in the service lane because it's much more of a high-touch area, right?
• 35:55
  It's not come in here, pick a thing, sit over there. It's there was phone call and email. There's a check-in process. Uh, there's a, you have to find out what's wrong with your vehicle. Um, you have to pay.
• 36:05
  You ha- your car has to be given back, delivered back to you. So there's all these points in there.
• 36:10
  Um, and so that's one thing that we're locked in on, on creating hospitality in the service area as well, because that's an area where people are already coming because something's wrong. Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:20
  And there's two, three times a year where you get to know that person, where you get to know that person's life rhythms and what, and, and what they expect out of an interaction.
• 36:28
  And like you said-You know, an, a restaurant regular could come once a week, right?
• 36:33
  And so you do get that, that you can earn the informality, not just in a single session, but in multiple, and that's the same opportunity in service.
• 36:40
  I mean, I know some incredible service advisors that see someone coming from a mile away,
• 36:45
  walk up and go out to greet them by name, and already know, like, can almost say the words before they say it, and so the opportunity is huge there. Well, the opportunity is...
• 36:55
  By the way, I wish I knew the ones that you know, 'cause I have not met them yet. [laughs] And the ones that I've met are, I mean, like- We're, we're gonna int- you're gonna meet them...
• 37:01
  the inability to respond to an email, honestly. Right. Like, where- Absolutely. Like, basic communication...
• 37:05
  where they have your car, and I email them three days in a row without a response, which is just- It's, it's a known issue... insane to me. "What's wrong with my car?" That is insane to me, yes.
• 37:12
  "How, how come I don't know?" Um, but that's, that's, that's not even good or bad hospitality. That's just bad service. And by the way, I think it's important to distinguish between the two words. Yeah, for sure.
• 37:23
  Service is a part of the product. Hospitality is the way you make them feel. Um, I think when you talk about, yes, m- expectations in most restaurants are higher, right? Mm-hmm. Gosh, that's exciting.
• 37:35
  I talk about hospitality being the greatest competitive advantage anyone in the service industry can have. It means it's that much more of a competitive advantage for people in your industry. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
• 37:46
  Because if the- Bar's way low... the bar is really low, it just takes trying a little bit harder and caring a little bit more. [sniffs] I went to that two-door Jeep that we bought,
• 38:00
  which my wife always really wanted a Jeep. So I was like, "All right, let's get you a Jeep." It's time. We were in California. We bought it, and then I just walked in, bought it, left. We, we go to leave,
• 38:12
  and they're like, "Hey, um, there's a gas station quarter of a mile down the road. There's just enough gas to get you there." Oh, boy.
• 38:20
  [laughs] I was like, "Are you fucking-" How to just, like, punish the whole situation. [laughs] I just lost The Price is Right. Right? And, like, by the way, I think it was, I think we got a really good deal on the car.
• 38:31
  Right. That's good. It doesn't matter. I put 40 bucks of gas in this car. Like, that, I think that's where- That's where the bar is. So, like- A lot of places, yeah... you fill the car with gas.
• 38:40
  Okay, now you're already over-performing. But, uh, listen, I think it's, I think it's such a beautiful, I think it's a, it's an industry filled with so many beautiful opportunities for the people that recognize that
• 38:58
  they're not in the business of selling people cars.
• 39:01
  They're in the business of connecting with people, and they are there to enable this next season of life and to help them celebrate the one that they're finishing or entering into. And,
• 39:12
  and I think it's really cool, as I've spent time with different people in the industry, to start seeing the things that they've done. Yeah. That's pretty powerful.
• 39:20
  Like, after I did the Mazda one, someone came up to me and said, "We started doing premial," which is what I call- Yeah. Yeah, yeah...
• 39:25
  the daily huddle, "in the way that you talk about it, and it's transformed our dealership." And, like- Wow... that's really fun for me to see. Yeah. Because by the way, hospitality is a team sport.
• 39:37
  Like, I, I believe it's really important to start inside and then work out. So, like, I- some people read the book, and they just get excited about, like, the big gestures.
• 39:48
  That's like building the fourth story before you've actually solidified the foundation.
• 39:51
  You need to work your way up to that, and that starts with learning how to lead and then fostering a culture and then ultimately going out and making magic. All of it.
• 39:59
  Well- Well, I can't think of a better way to kind of like- I know. [laughs] We were like... Land that plane real nice. Will, thanks for joining us on the podcast.
• 40:05
  We can't wait to have you at the event in a couple months. I'm so excited to be there, guys. And I tried to save the good stuff for then, so. There you go. [laughs] Thank you. [upbeat music]