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S2E2 Grace Under Fire: The Resilience of Japanese American Women in WWII · Japanese America

• 0:00
  Michelle complete the sentence.
• 0:01
  The woman I look up to most is.
• 0:04
  The woman I look up to.
• 0:06
  Most is somebody who's strong willed, and I also admire those people who contribute to others without getting anything in return.
• 0:16
  Like, oh my gosh, so selfless.
• 0:18
  Those are the people that I really, really admire.
• 0:22
  Anybody in particular?
• 0:23
  There are many people like Yuri Kochiyama that we learned last year like, oh my gosh, I didn't know.
• 0:29
  But she she's amazing.
• 0:40
  Welcome to season two, episode two of the Japanese America Podcast, the podcast where we explore the blend of Japanese and American cultures, histories and traditions, and all the quirky, wonderful things in between.
• 0:52
  My name is Koji and I am one of your hosts.
• 0:54
  And I'm Michelle and I'm the other host.
• 0:56
  Koji, how have you been doing?
• 0:58
  I've been good. We just got back from a baseball trip to Arizona.
• 1:03
  For your son.
• 1:04
  My son's team had too much pool time and wasn't able to win on the last day, which was very disappointing.
• 1:10
  Oh well, then you are the coach.
• 1:12
  I'm one of the coaches. Yeah, I'm the assistant coach. So yeah, it was it was very disappointing for us not to not to be able to win.
• 1:20
  How are you?
• 1:21
  I'm doing okay. Um. I'm usual.
• 1:25
  I just got my car washed yesterday, and it rained today.
• 1:29
  Wow.
• 1:30
  That's not good. You should have known. It was supposed to rain on Wednesday and Thursday of this week.
• 1:33
  I forgot, I see. I don't know anything.
• 1:38
  And today, we're honoring Women's History Month by talking about a group of amazing Japanese American women.
• 1:44
  We know that the 442nd and 100th and MIS get all the publicity.
• 1:49
  But, Koji, did you know that there was a group of Japanese American women who served during the World War two?
• 1:56
  I'm actually the last person you should ask, because I didn't know that.
• 1:59
  Oh, wow.
• 2:01
  During World War two, Japanese American Nisei women served in the US military, primarily in the Women's Army Corps or WAC and Army Nurses Corps.
• 2:09
  The ANC contributing significantly to the war effort as nurses, clerks, typists, drivers and linguists.
• 2:16
  Despite facing challenges due to their ethnicity and the concentration camps, many of whose families were forced into during the war.
• 2:24
  This month we'll be hearing from Grace Obata Amemiya, who JANM was lucky enough to bring in for a public program in 2013, about the WAC. She also sat down for an oral history interview, from which we'll share some clips.
• 2:39
  Before we get into it, let's give a brief overview of Grace.
• 2:42
  Grace's parents came from Japan and she was born in Vacaville, California. She was a nursing student when she and her family were sent to the Gila concentration camp in Arizona.
• 2:51
  While there, she worked as a nurse's assistant.
• 2:53
  She finished her schooling in Minnesota and eventually trained in the US in an Army hospital in Clinton, Iowa.
• 2:59
  In the first clip, Grace was asked if she always wanted to be a nurse.
• 3:03
  Well, about when I was about ten years old, you know, took care of my dolls and things and, I don't know, I just that was what I wanted to be was a public heath nurse, you know.
• 3:19
  Here, Grace tells us what it was like for her when she heard the news of Pearl Harbor.
• 3:25
  Sunday morning and Dot McHenry, and she was just she lived in San Francisco, and she and her family just, just were so friendly.
• 3:35
  And we did many things together now.
• 3:38
  So we were studying her and her in the morning.
• 3:40
  And of course, there's no television in those days.
• 3:43
  So we were listening to the radio and the music and music stopped and they said that Pearl Harbor had happened.
• 3:51
  And it was such a awesome, awesome news.
• 3:57
  And, and Dot is still living in in Wisconsin and she always teases me when I talk.
• 4:06
  She's still a nurse. Well, she retired, but anyway, she always teases me, you know?
• 4:11
  But she says. And the fact that, yes, our parents came from Japan, you know, but we were American citizens and and as far as we were concerned, then Japan became an enemy.
• 4:27
  Grace recounts what it was like having to get rid of her things before leaving for camp.
• 4:31
  Well, it was really something because, uh, like I say, we were a very meager means, and we, of course, didn't ever own a house.
• 4:41
  We always had to rent.
• 4:42
  But the collection of things that you have and the things that their parents brought from Japan and living in a small community where school, you know, memorabilias and everything.
• 4:54
  And and then the Methodist church, uh, had said that if we wanted to store things we could upstairs because that would be empty.
• 5:06
  But while we were gone, why got vandalized.
• 5:11
  So but, um, and then it was just, uh, we had to, you know, we'd go to take things out to the dumpsters and people would be standing around waiting to pick up things that they felt that they could use and things.
• 5:28
  And we gave away things for friends and and buddies and children, you know, and then some of my friends who I, they said that they would store some things for us, bless them. They did.
• 5:44
  Grace went to Turlock, which was an assembly center in Northern California. While there, she worked in a camp hospital.
• 5:52
  Listen to this clip as she recounts what it was like working at the hospital and what the assembly center was like.
• 5:59
  Well, that that was, um, county fairgrounds, you know. But I worked as a since I was a student nurse.
• 6:08
  I worked in the med center.
• 6:11
  Uh, after all, we had accidents, deaths first, everything, even in short time that we were there.
• 6:20
  But of course, when we're in our barracks also why we didn't have any electricity or water. So, uh, since your privacy, you know, quite a bit of things that you missed was your privacy.
• 6:38
  And you didn't have a bathroom in our barracks.
• 6:40
  Grace and her family were eventually moved to Gila River Camp in Arizona, where she continued to work in the hospital.
• 6:44
  Here she recounts her work while in the camp.
• 6:47
  Well, well, we became just practically we had to take care of the patients and we had to watch very carefully that, uh, you know, as I said, there was births and deaths and accidents and, um, people who became depressed and and all.
• 7:08
  And then we had some that we had to send to a sanitarium and stuff like that.
• 7:14
  Grace left camp, got a housekeeper position in Lake Forest, Illinois, for a year until she was eventually accepted into the Saint Mary's School of Nursing under the Cadet Nurse Corps program in Rochester, Minnesota. One of the surprising things we found out was that the program was not segregated.
• 7:34
  Yes, that was one of the strict orders, and it was not segregated.
• 7:41
  It was not dead. Black, black, black.
• 7:45
  The schools had to be accepted by public health and all.
• 7:49
  But that was one of the things that there was no segregation, you know, American Indians and and then like I say, there were over 400 of us And so that meant that.
• 8:01
  And then a lot of them came from camp because it was getting out and getting an education.
• 8:08
  You know.
• 8:09
  As Grace mentions, there were 400 Japanese American women in the program.
• 8:13
  She left Minnesota and continued her training at Chick General Army Hospital in Clinton, Iowa, where she was one of two Japanese American nurses who the Army Corps had accepted to train under their supervision at an Army hospital.
• 8:24
  When asked about what she did there, this is what she said.
• 8:27
  Well, not the either they'd been injured or maybe they were even, um, some that, um, were just really, you know, and and we found ourselves just realizing, you know, how much we were able to do to help and how much I hope may better nurses out of us.
• 8:52
  You know, you're listening to soldiers who are crying because their wives are divorced Emre. Yeah, and but the thing was that, um, these fellas, you know, they they needed someone to talk to.
• 9:10
  They needed someone, you know, to.
• 9:13
  And we hope that we help them.
• 9:15
  It sure made us realize what our guys were going through and what families were going through who had lost, you know, a member of the family.
• 9:25
  Here Grace tells us about her time off.
• 9:27
  And so we had a quite a nice social life.
• 9:31
  And, and, uh, it was always this, well, if I'm working, then, you know, so and so won't be working.
• 9:37
  So we can always, you know, they just came down because they knew us as some of the boys and they were college friends or old friends.
• 9:47
  And I've got pictures of those that we, in fact, one of the fellas that, um, used to come down there, he was my husband. Yeah.
• 9:57
  Married him. Married him? Yeah.
• 9:59
  No. But seriously, it was truly, uh, for us to to have a social life, and we picnic and have, you know, just walking or go to the park or.
• 10:12
  And the fellas loved it because they didn't know very many gals up in, you know, near Camp Savage, you know.
• 10:21
  And so I thought that was real neat.
• 10:26
  There were some uncomfortable moments that Grace talked about, but her positive attitude and faith in humanity is clear.
• 10:31
  It was very interesting.
• 10:34
  War ended and the army nurse captain called the three of us Nisei girls in and said, um, the war has ended and we're getting some patients who are our boys who were in the Bataan March and were prisoners of war in Japan at the Japanese hospitals.
• 10:59
  And if when they come back and and they'll be coming to our hospital.
• 11:06
  We don't know what their reaction is going to be when they see Asian face nurses.
• 11:11
  And so she says, you cannot go to work in the morning without an escort.
• 11:17
  You cannot leave the hospital and come back to the quarters without an escort.
• 11:22
  Yeah. So but then it was just really, really awesome, you know, and because some ambulatory patients that we had been taking care of went up to the captain and said, don't worry, we'll be here in the morning to get these nurses to the hospital and we'll pick them up and also get them back again.
• 11:49
  And, and during the day, she says, we're ambulatory, so we'll keep an eye on them and we'll see that they're safe.
• 11:57
  And it was such a heartwarming experience, you know, and it just, um, was just that these boys had accepted us.
• 12:09
  You know.
• 12:09
  One of our favorite parts of the oral history interview was Grace's wonderful sense of humor.
• 12:15
  I had a crazy experience because, you know, my maiden name was Obata, you know? So O-b-a-t-a and one of the soldiers said to me, he said, is that an Irish name?
• 12:28
  You know, and you know me?
• 12:30
  I said, yeah, but you look Asian.
• 12:35
  He said. I said, yeah, I said, but my father was Irish.
• 12:39
  And I said, that's why I said, O apostrophe b-a-t-a.
• 12:43
  And my mother was Asian.
• 12:45
  Therefore I had the Asian face.
• 12:48
  How did your dad meet your mom?
• 12:50
  You know, I'm one of those crazy people, you know?
• 12:54
  And I said, oh, well, he was an Irish fisherman and he ended up in Hawaii. And my mother was a schoolteacher, as she was, you know, and she had gone to Hawaii to teach.
• 13:06
  And they met and they got married and they came to the United States.
• 13:10
  So all of us were born here.
• 13:13
  And, oh, you know. And so after that, you know, he told it to all the soldiers, you know, that were in his unit.
• 13:23
  And he said, next thing I hear is not, you know, Miss Obata or nurse hey, Irish, you know.
• 13:33
  So I had more fun with that, you know, because it was just the teasing and having. But it was a wonderful, warm experience.
• 13:45
  The soldiers never treated us with discrimination, you know, and we worked we worked in an arts and crafts with them also, you know, and took care of them for physical therapy and went out on picnics.
• 14:01
  We went bowling with them or.
• 14:04
  And finally, let's hear Grace's outlook on camp and her life.
• 14:07
  But but you know, Min and I, whenever we spoke and talked about internment and all we said, they'll say, you can stand there and talk about it and without any bitterness.
• 14:19
  And Min and I have always said yes because it was something that we had no control over.
• 14:25
  The government thought that was what was right.
• 14:29
  But it is, of course, they've apologized and all that.
• 14:33
  But the fact that, um, you can't live with anger and bitterness, you're ruining your own self.
• 14:41
  And so min and I felt that by being positive about it and helping the people understand what did happen and that it will never, never happen again to any Group of people.
• 14:58
  We are sad to know that Grace passed away in July of 2017 at the age of 96.
• 15:02
  We invite you to watch her public program on the Japanese American National Museum's YouTube page. Michelle, are you listening to the interview?
• 15:09
  I think you listened to the public program.
• 15:10
  I did.
• 15:11
  Was there anything that stuck out to you?
• 15:13
  Well, many things like, oh my gosh, she's she's not bitter at all.
• 15:17
  I, I would be really I mean she passed away at the age of 96, but I might be very, very upset forever for what she had to go through.
• 15:30
  Like, she talked about things that she had to get rid of.
• 15:34
  And people are waiting by the dumpster for her to put it in a dumpster so she could just pick him up and take him home.
• 15:42
  I was upset the other day.
• 15:43
  I, I just closed the garage door down and I went running, and this lady came up to me and said, hey, I saw that table in your garage.
• 15:53
  Are you going to get rid of it?
• 15:55
  I was really upset about that.
• 15:57
  Somebody asked you about something that was in your garage.
• 16:00
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:01
  Do you know this person?
• 16:01
  No, I don't know.
• 16:03
  That's weird.
• 16:03
  I right, and she was putting her belongings that she doesn't want to get rid of and, you know, in a dumpster, and people are, like, waiting to grab it. Ah, then I don't know.
• 16:17
  It's. So I'm upset for her.
• 16:20
  I'm upset for her belongings.
• 16:21
  And she is not bitter at all.
• 16:24
  Like she sounded like it had to be happen and all this stuff.
• 16:28
  Like she wasn't accepted to school because people are not ready for your kind.
• 16:35
  Your kind like, are so upset still.
• 16:40
  And it didn't happen to me.
• 16:41
  It happened to Grace and it's so heartbreaking.
• 16:46
  On a similar note, one of the things that stood out to me was the was when she was talking about the kinds of things that were happening in camp and the kinds of work she was doing, and she talked about how people just couldn't handle it. And then they went to a sanatorium. And all my life, in all of my studies and reading about the camps, I've never heard about that experience.
• 17:04
  I've never heard people going to the camps. I mean, it makes a lot of sense because it's probably a depressing place, I imagine.
• 17:09
  And it probably wasn't super fun, but I'd never heard of that.
• 17:11
  But the way she said it was like they couldn't handle things. They got depressed.
• 17:14
  And then they went to a sanitarium and I was like, that sounds really terrible.
• 17:17
  But she says it in a way that's so, you know, like, it's so matter of fact, you know, that was very like it was it was very shocking to me to hear that.
• 17:25
  Yeah. And also at the other camps, I, you know, I've seen watchtowers at the Manzanar, but I wasn't I didn't really know that there was a guy, you know, pointing a gun at you just in case you crossed a fence.
• 17:41
  But in her interview, she talks about, uh, there's a guy on the watchtower, the machine gunners waiting to, you know, shoot you in five feet from the fence, and you had to live like that.
• 17:54
  Oh, my gosh, that is so so so I mean, I'm sorry I'm so upset 80 years later.
• 18:00
  But she had to live through that.
• 18:04
  And it happened in America.
• 18:06
  And for legal citizens of America, it's so upsetting.
• 18:12
  And you know what's interesting about Gila River? Gila River is actually a Native American reservation. So they were actually put on a reservation.
• 18:19
  So like, it's not even American land.
• 18:21
  Technically, it's a Native American land.
• 18:23
  So like, even if we were like if we wanted to go visit, for example, you've got to go get permission from the, the tribe to allow you onto the land to go look at whatever is happening.
• 18:32
  But like if you listen to her, you know, like it almost sounded like she just was away for a couple of years on, like a camp or something.
• 18:38
  Like a camp is like, not like concentration camp, but kind of just like a camp. But one of the things I learned talking to a lot of people who were in camp is that there's two kinds of individuals.
• 18:47
  There's kind of individual that that looks at that experience and thinks it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me, and it ruined my life.
• 18:54
  And then you have people like Grace who are to me really amazing.
• 18:57
  And they look at something that was really terrible because they would they would admit it's terrible, but they look at it in a way that is not super like it ruined their lives, but it was just a moment in their lives. And there are terrible things that happened there, but that it didn't define who they are.
• 19:11
  And so I tell my son all the time, you know, when something bad happens, you have two choices. And the one choice is you let it ruin your life or two.
• 19:18
  You deal with it, you accept it, and then you move on and you try to make the best of it. And so that's one of the things that hearing Grace talk about it.
• 19:27
  You just think that it was terrible, obviously, but that it didn't define who she was.
• 19:33
  It didn't define, you know, like her the rest of her life.
• 19:36
  And I think that that's something that that should be really appreciated and looked up to.
• 19:40
  Yeah. Like shikata GA nai, like there's nothing can't be helped.
• 19:45
  Yeah. And also she talks about, she says that you can't live with anger and bitterness because you are ruining your own self.
• 19:52
  And that really hit me deep because, you know, sometimes I get upset about, you know, itty bitty things, and it's ruining my life, but a little bit.
• 20:02
  But, like, she, she went to she and all the other Japanese Americans had to go through so much. And many of them, they just didn't let it ruin their lives.
• 20:13
  And that's amazing.
• 20:14
  And one of the things that was super interesting to me was also the fact that it wasn't segregated. And it made me really appreciate that these women were, you know, were willing to to do what it took to help the country.
• 20:26
  You know, they went to places where there were no Japanese like, you know, the place she was at. There were only two Japanese people, Japanese American people. And it could have gone really badly.
• 20:34
  And, you know, and it could have been really bad for her.
• 20:37
  But she was, you know, in a lot of ways, she had to be brave and she had to study and work.
• 20:42
  And luckily everything worked out for her, obviously.
• 20:45
  But it was it just goes to show that we don't talk about women who served in World War Two, but these women served and they served very bravely.
• 20:52
  And had the war gone on, she would have probably had gone to Europe or another base somewhere.
• 20:58
  And I thought that was really, you know, it's eye opening and it's always I think it's really important that we hear their stories and we recognize that it wasn't just the dudes, but it was also the women as well who who served in for our country to help the war.
• 21:16
  Koji, what kind of nurse would you make?
• 21:18
  What kind of patient are you?
• 21:20
  I would be, I think, a terrible nurse because I have no patience for anybody.
• 21:25
  Like the moment they started complaining, I would be like, be quiet. I don't want to hear any of this.
• 21:31
  And what kind of patient?
• 21:32
  I think I'm a really good patient. I think I'm overly nice and trying to please the doctor or please the nurse a lot.
• 21:37
  I don't know. What about you? What kind of nurse would you make? And what kind of patient are you?
• 21:40
  I don't think I'm a nurse material.
• 21:44
  Why not?
• 21:44
  Because I don't, I hate needles.
• 21:47
  I don't think I could give anybody a shot, and I don't.
• 21:51
  I don't want to clean up after the mess, And I don't want to be a nurse.
• 21:57
  What about. Are you a good patient?
• 21:59
  I'm not a good patient either, because I don't like needles.
• 22:05
  And then I don't like the bills either afterwards.
• 22:08
  So. Yeah.
• 22:10
  Well, in Japan, it's free, right?
• 22:11
  Well, it's not free, but it's much, much cheaper.
• 22:14
  It's cheaper than America.
• 22:16
  Yeah, yeah. So one time I had a CAT scan.
• 22:18
  It's like some kind of scan and at the emergency room.
• 22:22
  And that was like $11,000 with eight,$1,800 out of pocket.
• 22:27
  But I told that to my mom, and my mom's like, well, it's like 4000 yens, like 30 bucks in Japan.
• 22:37
  We are deeply grateful for your continued support and enthusiasm for the Japanese America Podcast. Your engagement, feedback and passion inspire us to keep sharing stories and perspectives that bridge cultures and bring people together.
• 22:52
  Thank you for being part of our community and for tuning in to each episode.
• 22:56
  We're excited to continue this journey with you, exploring the rich and diverse tapestry of Japanese American experience.
• 23:02
  Stay tuned for more exciting content, and don't hesitate to reach out to us with your thoughts and ideas.
• 23:07
  This podcast is a program of the Japanese American National Museum.
• 23:11
  The museum's mission is to promote understanding and appreciation of America's ethnic and cultural diversity by sharing the Japanese American experience.
• 23:21
  Please rate, review and subscribe to our podcast and be sure to join us next month when we talk baseball.
• 23:27
  Finally! Yay! Baseball! Finally! All right, thank you guys.
• 23:32
  Bye bye.