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GILGO BEACH SERIAL KILLER SUSPECT’S BACK DECK TORN APART TILE BY TILE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grece.
0:14
Speaker 2: As we speak, an entire excavation crew is dismantling the backyard,
0:21
Speaker 2: deck and porch of the Long Island serial killer suspect
0:26
Speaker 2: Rex Huerman. This as evidence comes to light that he
0:31
Speaker 2: had a sound proof room in his basement, and not
0:37
Speaker 2: only that, reams of torture porn allegedly being pulled out
0:43
Speaker 2: of his home. Could it have fueled the flame amped
0:48
Speaker 2: him up prior to a string of horrible murders on
0:53
Speaker 2: young ladies throughout the metro area. I'm Nancy Grace. This
0:58
Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
1:00
Speaker 2: at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. If the
1:04
Speaker 2: allegations are true, rex Huerman is a serial killer like
1:09
Speaker 2: none other. You know you're bad when you have other
1:14
Speaker 2: serial killers talking about you. That's actually happening. Dennis Rader
1:20
Speaker 2: BTK bind Torture Kill is actually commenting on Rex Hureman. Okay,
1:28
Speaker 2: before I get my mind around that, let's talk about
1:32
Speaker 2: what's happening evidence wise. First of all, I want you
1:36
Speaker 2: to take a listen to our friends at crime Online.
1:38
Speaker 3: As the search of Rex Hewerman's home was winding down
1:40
Speaker 3: on Sunday, police allegedly found a soundproof room and think
1:44
Speaker 3: at least one victim was killed there. Police used cadaver
1:47
Speaker 3: dogs and ground penetrating sonar all over the backyard. Sunday afternoon,
1:51
Speaker 3: The New York Post reported that a former coworker said
1:54
Speaker 3: Hureerman took time off from his job as an architect
1:57
Speaker 3: in Manhattan to install a concrete line vault at his
2:00
Speaker 3: family home in Long Island. The New York Post says
2:03
Speaker 3: it isn't clear if this is the same room that
2:06
Speaker 3: housed over two hundred of Huerman's guns as it has
2:08
Speaker 3: been reported in the past, or if this was a
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Speaker 3: new space. The former coworker told The New York Post,
2:14
Speaker 3: It's not just a hidden room. It's a serious vault.
2:17
Speaker 3: It had a huge, heavy duty safe door. The coworker claimed.
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Speaker 3: The human impoured new concrete walls, massive amounts of concrete
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Speaker 3: to encase the room.
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Speaker 2: So I'm trying to understand is there not only a
2:30
Speaker 2: padlocked room to store guns in addition to a sound
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Speaker 2: proof room that Hureman has taken great pains to insulate
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Speaker 2: with cement. Speaking of ground penetrating sonar, with me an
2:46
Speaker 2: all star panel to analyze what's happening right now? As
2:50
Speaker 2: we speak with the Long Island serial killer suspect also
2:54
Speaker 2: known as a Gilgo Beach suspect. But first I want
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Speaker 2: to go to Cheryl McCollum, Director founder Cold Case Research Institute,
3:01
Speaker 2: star of a Hitney series Zone seven, and forensics expert.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. You and I just were on a saane
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Speaker 2: working ground penetrating sonar. Explain how it works.
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Speaker 4: It's almost like a small lawnmower size, and it rolls
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Speaker 4: across the ground and literally it shoots down these sonars
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Speaker 4: that come back and give you an image of what's
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Speaker 4: underneath the ground or underneath the concrete slab. And when
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Speaker 4: you're able to read it and deduce what these images mean,
3:37
Speaker 4: it can show things like, you know, a weapon or
3:41
Speaker 4: in our case, a shower rod or something in case.
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Speaker 4: So again, what is so smart about this scene to
3:48
Speaker 4: me is they're using the ground penetrating radar in conjunction
3:53
Speaker 4: with canines, in conjunction with common sense, like where the
3:57
Speaker 4: evidence is leading them. This sonar can all so show
4:00
Speaker 4: things that canines can't, like where the gas lines are,
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Speaker 4: where electrical lines are. That will help you before you
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Speaker 4: start digging, because you don't want to cause any more
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Speaker 4: issues in this neighborhood. So if there's a water line
4:13
Speaker 4: or something, you want to avoid that. But again, when
4:16
Speaker 4: you're reading these things and you've got an expert out
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Speaker 4: there in conjunction with these dogs and in conjunction with
4:22
Speaker 4: the folks from you know, the detective Bureau, it's a
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Speaker 4: beautiful thing to watch in concert.
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Speaker 2: I don't know that I would call anything about this beautiful,
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Speaker 2: but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. In addition to finding actual objects in the dirt,
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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of something that looks like everybody
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Speaker 2: has seen a ultrasound of a baby, right, and you
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Speaker 2: just see different shades of gray and black, and you
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Speaker 2: can make out the form of the baby, sometimes even
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Speaker 2: face to some degree. It's different shades. And in ground
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Speaker 2: penetrating sonar, Cheryl McCollum and I were just at a
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Speaker 2: cold case seen out in the middle of nowhere recently,
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Speaker 2: working with cadaver DAWs and ground penetrating sonar GPS, and
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Speaker 2: what it looks like is kind of like that ultrasound.
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Speaker 2: You will see the dirt, but then importantly you could
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Speaker 2: see a disturbance in the dirt. You can see a
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Speaker 2: place where it looks different than the rest. It's not
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Speaker 2: as accurateusly an X ray, it's not that sharp, but
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Speaker 2: you can absolutely see a difference where the dirt has
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Speaker 2: been disturbed, in other words, where someone has been digging
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Speaker 2: much less, as Cheryl accurately pointed out an object like
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Speaker 2: a shower shower rod, or a knife or a gun
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Speaker 2: or a body. You can see it very, very clearly.
5:54
Speaker 4: The easiest way to describe it if you look at
5:58
Speaker 4: a sheet and all these air is a pointing upward,
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Speaker 4: and all of a sudden you have a short space
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Speaker 4: where all the airs are pointing down. That's where dirt
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Speaker 4: is like dug up and then put back, it looks different.
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Speaker 4: You've changed the composition. So that's what you're looking for.
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Speaker 2: Guys. I've just been sent right now a photo of
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Speaker 2: the scene with me is Kristin Thorn, investigative reporter WABC
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Speaker 2: Channel seven Eyewitness News, and she's the star of Hulu's
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Speaker 2: true crime show Missing Kristin. I'm seeing a picture right
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Speaker 2: now of investigators on the scene digging and they clearly
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Speaker 2: have found something. Now what is it?
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Speaker 5: What we're seeing is this is a drone picture that
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Speaker 5: was taken yesterday actually from a teenager who lives in
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Speaker 5: the neighborhood who contacted us. And what we're seeing is
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Speaker 5: an aerial of the backyard, which of course has been
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Speaker 5: torn apart over the last few days here, and it
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Speaker 5: looks like they have almost a piece of either plywood
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Speaker 5: or paper something that they're holding. Bits very flat and
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Speaker 5: on it are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten,
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Speaker 5: maybe eleven dark colored shape and I can't make out
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Speaker 5: what this may be, but it's certainly as we know
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Speaker 5: from the teenager who took the drone pictures and videos
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Speaker 5: and contacted us. They were taking pictures. Actually did see
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Speaker 5: the video of this. You can see them flashing pictures
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Speaker 5: of this sort of menagerie of items and then they
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Speaker 5: stick it in a brown plastic bag that your experts
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Speaker 5: will see right there.
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Speaker 2: Let me think of a good way to put this.
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Speaker 2: It almost looks like a treasure map. Yeah, where they're
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Speaker 2: looking at certain and I don't know if these are
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Speaker 2: silhouettes or representative of certain items they found or certain locations,
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Speaker 2: but it looks like every single guy standing around one two, three, four,
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Speaker 2: five six, one woman on the end are looking at this,
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Speaker 2: this piece of paper, and they're standing over the digs site.
8:01
Speaker 2: Everybody on our panel take a look at this, and
8:04
Speaker 2: we'll go around and assess what is happening right now again,
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Speaker 2: you heard Kristen Thorn from ABC Channel seven Eyewitness News
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Speaker 2: describing how a teen in the neighborhood took this drone
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Speaker 2: shot and has passed it on right now. We also
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Speaker 2: know that the deck is being torn apart. Take a
8:24
Speaker 2: listen to our friend Dave Mack.
8:26
Speaker 3: The home that Rex Huerman has lived in for most
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Speaker 3: of his life has been a hotbed of activity. The
8:30
Speaker 3: New York Post reports a police dog was brought into
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Speaker 3: nose around the backyard on Saturday while investigators took a
8:37
Speaker 3: part a wooden deck, emptied out a storage shed, and
8:39
Speaker 3: removed cement tiles that had been dug up and taken
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Speaker 3: by Wilburrow to be dumped into a container for closer inspection.
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Speaker 3: The Post report's three brown paper bags of evidence were
8:49
Speaker 3: also carried out directly to a police vehicle after the
8:52
Speaker 3: cement tiles were removed on Saturday. Sunday, a backo was
8:56
Speaker 3: brought in and began digging up the area. Channel twelve
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Speaker 3: Long Island News reported investigators had ground penetrating sonar on
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Speaker 3: site to be used in the area, but investigators refusing
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Speaker 3: to say what they have found or what they are
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Speaker 3: trying to find in the yard.
9:11
Speaker 2: In the dirt, they are taking a part that back
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Speaker 2: deck slash porch tile by tile, leaving nothing undisturbed.
9:35
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
9:38
Speaker 2: Joining me in addition to Christian Thorn and Schryl McCollum.
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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough joining us, Director of the Cold Case Foundation,
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Speaker 2: former homicide detective and now host of an incredible YouTube channel,
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Speaker 2: The Interview Room. Chris very significant that they are tearing
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Speaker 2: apart the back decks. As a matter of fact, take
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Speaker 2: us an hour cut fifteen k e yt. This should
10:04
Speaker 2: ring a bell.
10:04
Speaker 6: San Louis Obispo County Sheriff's investigators get back to work
10:08
Speaker 6: searching the home of Reuben Flores for a second straight day.
10:11
Speaker 6: All morning long, investigators scoured the property a lot of attention,
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Speaker 6: focusing on an area behind wooden lattice underneath a large deck.
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Speaker 6: Sheriff Ian Parkinson could be seen walking around the yard
10:23
Speaker 6: checking out an area where deputies later started digging early
10:26
Speaker 6: in the afternoon. Shortly after the digging in the yard.
10:29
Speaker 6: Investigators quickly wrapped up and left the site.
10:33
Speaker 2: We're talking, of course, about the case of Kristen Smart,
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Speaker 2: the California coit who goes missing after a party. Her
10:40
Speaker 2: body was hidden under a deck in the backyard of
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Speaker 2: the Flores family that was found through ground penetrating sonar.
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Speaker 2: You could see where it had been on earth. Where
10:53
Speaker 2: they put it after that, I don't know, but that
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Speaker 2: is a case, Chris McDonough that plagued the law enforcement
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Speaker 2: series of blunders for decades until finally they go and
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Speaker 2: they're doing what they're doing right now with Hureman and
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Speaker 2: tore apart the back deck. That's not a good sign
11:12
Speaker 2: when you see the FEZ or the sheriff's in your
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Speaker 2: backyard dismantling your deck.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, And what's going on in this pictures is
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Speaker 7: basically it's a forensic forensic anthropology dig. There's a high probability.
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Speaker 7: There's a high probability the guy in the hall it's
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Speaker 7: an anthropologist of some sort, and we see the paper
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Speaker 7: and Miss Cheryl can talk about that all day, but
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Speaker 7: those are probably items of evidence that they're removing from there.
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Speaker 7: And there's one really interesting looking shape at the top
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Speaker 7: of the paper, it looks like it has a hook
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Speaker 7: on it, and that may or may not be amendable
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Speaker 7: of some sort. And maybe this is a small individual,
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Speaker 7: possibly even well I'm not going to, you know, speculate,
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Speaker 7: but these items of evidence are definitely items of evidence
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Speaker 7: that they're putting on this bag. And you know, those
12:12
Speaker 7: are the types of things that with this secret room,
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Speaker 7: and you wonder if he was burying people there and
12:21
Speaker 7: that he ran out of room. And that's where the
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Speaker 7: beach now becomes kind of the dumping ground because kind
12:28
Speaker 7: of like Gaysey Gasey ran out of the room at
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Speaker 7: his house.
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Speaker 2: Jump in, Bethany, guys, you are hearing Dr Bethany Marshall.
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Speaker 2: She has a renounced psychoalys joining us at the Beverly
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Speaker 2: Hills Jurisdiction at Dr Bethany Marshall dot com. I was
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Speaker 2: about to come to you and you can just roll
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Speaker 2: this into your comment. Dr Bethany, the act of burying
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Speaker 2: a person or body parts is a whole another can
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Speaker 2: of worms. You know, when I prosecuted cases where people
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Speaker 2: were buried, you know, the or buried or body parts
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Speaker 2: or evidence, I didn't have to think about why. But
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Speaker 2: I'm curious as to why. And Cheryl, I want to
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Speaker 2: circle back to you about the case you and I
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Speaker 2: helped crack of Chase Masterner who was buried under a
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Speaker 2: back deck and years past and he was still found. Okay,
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany hit it.
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Speaker 8: Nancy. I think if you think about the fact that
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Speaker 8: he's accosting, raping, murdering all these victims, holding onto body
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Speaker 8: parts and trophies for sexual excitement. I mean, that's what
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Speaker 8: this is all about, is incorporating all of this into
13:35
Speaker 8: sadistic masturbatory fantasies. My thought is as he was graduating
13:41
Speaker 8: towards the sicker and sicker acts, he started by just
13:45
Speaker 8: dumping the bodies along the beach, but then eventually he
13:49
Speaker 8: wanted them close by for his own sexual purposes. And
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Speaker 8: how many places can you secrete a body in a
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Speaker 8: home when you're married, you have a wife and two kids.
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Speaker 8: You know where in the refrigerator, you know, in the tupperware,
14:03
Speaker 8: you know, containers. I mean, I don't mean to be facetious,
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Speaker 8: but all those body parts have to go somewhere, and
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Speaker 8: he wants them close by. Once they're in the bushes
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Speaker 8: at Gilgo Beach, he no longer retains use of them
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Speaker 8: for his sexual fantasies. And that's not how this guy operates.
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Speaker 8: He probably has one victim that he will use as
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Speaker 8: a fetishized object again and again and again, so he
14:30
Speaker 8: has to keep them close by and hide them from
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Speaker 8: his wife and children, so burying them, putting them in
14:36
Speaker 8: a secret room. Cutting up body parts. See that white
14:40
Speaker 8: piece of paper with those odd brown shapes on it
14:44
Speaker 8: do look to me like body parts, And it suggests
14:49
Speaker 8: to me that Hureman either had to sever body parts
14:55
Speaker 8: or you know, hide them in different locations around his property,
14:58
Speaker 8: because he had to s create the bodies and that
15:01
Speaker 8: was the only way to do it. Or maybe he
15:03
Speaker 8: had favorite body parts. Maybe certain body parts were put
15:07
Speaker 8: in certain places, and we'll find that there's sort of
15:10
Speaker 8: a method to the madness. And maybe he liked hands,
15:13
Speaker 8: maybe he liked to feed. I mean, who knows what
15:15
Speaker 8: it was. But maybe the map that they're looking at
15:17
Speaker 8: is going to tell them some kind of a story
15:20
Speaker 8: of where he secreted body parts and then brought them
15:23
Speaker 8: back for his own sexual purposes.
15:25
Speaker 2: Joining me right now, doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for
15:28
Speaker 2: the State of Florida, and you can find him at
15:30
Speaker 2: pathcaremed dot com lecturer University of Florida Medical School and
15:35
Speaker 2: the Forensic Medicine Branch, and founder and host of the
15:39
Speaker 2: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Doctor Gallagher, thank you
15:45
Speaker 2: for being with us. We sent you that drone shot
15:50
Speaker 2: almost like a map. It's not a map, I don't
15:53
Speaker 2: think what is that. We earlier heard someone mention a mandible.
15:57
Speaker 2: What is a mandible and what, if anything, do you
16:01
Speaker 2: make of the drawing that they are looking at?
16:03
Speaker 9: Well, thanks for being Thanks for having me on the show, Nancy.
16:06
Speaker 9: A mandible is the jaw of a skull, so it's
16:11
Speaker 9: the lower jaw of a person. It's the bone that
16:13
Speaker 9: comprises the lower teeth and it's attached to the base
16:17
Speaker 9: of the skull. Looking at the photograph, I'm not seeing
16:23
Speaker 9: a lot of body parts there. It reminds me of clothing. Actually,
16:30
Speaker 9: it looks like there's a pair of pants and.
16:35
Speaker 7: Some other items.
16:36
Speaker 9: I don't recognize a lot of those shapes as being
16:39
Speaker 9: body parts. And typically if a excavation is going on,
16:46
Speaker 9: knowing that there's a drone in the area, the body
16:48
Speaker 9: parts aren't really exposed to those photographs. So this to
16:53
Speaker 9: me looks like clothing perhaps, but certainly I don't recognize
16:58
Speaker 9: any of those shapes as being a body part.
17:01
Speaker 2: And also if it had been a body part buried there,
17:05
Speaker 2: unless it was bone, it would have long ago decomposed.
17:10
Speaker 2: It looks more to me. Let me bring in BERNARDA.
17:13
Speaker 2: Villa loona high profile New York criminal defense attorney and
17:17
Speaker 2: former prosecutor at Villa loonalaw dot com. BERNARDA thank you
17:22
Speaker 2: for being with us. To me, after having a jump
17:26
Speaker 2: in Cheril, if you have an idea about this. To me,
17:29
Speaker 2: it looks like spots that they have identified through the
17:34
Speaker 2: GPS groundbreaking sonar. It doesn't look like any particular object
17:39
Speaker 2: to me. I mean, as you hear on the panel,
17:42
Speaker 2: one person things it looks like a mandible. One things
17:44
Speaker 2: that looks like a pair of pants. One of them
17:46
Speaker 2: looks like a tooth, a molar, one of them looks
17:48
Speaker 2: like a cereal bowl. So obviously that's not what it is,
17:52
Speaker 2: but it looks like it could be areas that have
17:56
Speaker 2: shown up more darkly than other areas and the groundbreaking
18:02
Speaker 2: sonar result.
18:03
Speaker 10: So you have to think, Nancy, remember the way that
18:06
Speaker 10: we got here is that technology advanced, and it advanced
18:10
Speaker 10: to the point that remember that here that they found
18:13
Speaker 10: on two of the bodies, or believe three of the bodies,
18:16
Speaker 10: mitochondrial DNA advanced, it came.
18:19
Speaker 11: About, it developed, and they were able to get the
18:22
Speaker 11: investigation going and finally get an assessspect.
18:25
Speaker 10: So imagine this, So even though they had been in arrest,
18:28
Speaker 10: we don't know where technology is going to take us
18:30
Speaker 10: two three years from now or even a year from
18:33
Speaker 10: now when the trial actually begins. So they have to
18:36
Speaker 10: take anything that they believe can be provided or can
18:39
Speaker 10: be examined, so they can at least have that in
18:42
Speaker 10: their possession for this investigation, for this upcoming trial. Because
18:47
Speaker 10: when the trial does begin, remember the prosecutor is going
18:50
Speaker 10: to have to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
18:53
Speaker 10: And you want to be able to cross off to say, look,
18:56
Speaker 10: we dug up his property, We went deep into his property.
19:00
Speaker 10: We dug up whatever known property that he has. We
19:03
Speaker 10: know that he's an architecturer. So being an architecture, what
19:06
Speaker 10: is this specialty? Ding ding, ding.
19:09
Speaker 11: Building, property building, land building buildings, So he has an
19:14
Speaker 11: expertise and where to hide things, where to build things
19:18
Speaker 11: that we normally wouldn't have as an attorney's as prosecutors.
19:22
Speaker 11: So that is something that the prosecutor definitely wants to
19:25
Speaker 11: cross their teeth, and they're doing what they need to do,
19:27
Speaker 11: and at least they'll be able to show these pictures
19:29
Speaker 11: or these videos to a jury to say that they
19:32
Speaker 11: did a serbo investigation. And let's see where leads.
19:35
Speaker 2: Guys, you are hearing BERNARDA. Villalona speaking in that jurisdiction basine,
19:41
Speaker 2: I wanted to circle back to you on another issue,
19:43
Speaker 2: but before I lose the thought, Cheryl McCollum, the backyard,
19:48
Speaker 2: the deck, if you will recall in the case of
19:52
Speaker 2: the missing that Chase Master, a young guy, handsome guy,
19:59
Speaker 2: had a wife and two children that believed for years
20:02
Speaker 2: he just walked off and left them. I never believed that,
20:06
Speaker 2: and in fact, years later he was found under the deck,
20:10
Speaker 2: buried under the deck of his best friend. Remember that case,
20:14
Speaker 2: you and out there, you and I out there with
20:16
Speaker 2: the dogs, yep.
20:17
Speaker 4: And I also remember us telling people nobody could confirm
20:21
Speaker 4: he ever left that house, so we believed he was
20:24
Speaker 4: right there, very close. So under the deck, when you
20:27
Speaker 4: saw this very crude makeshift cement slab, again, that's a clue.
20:33
Speaker 4: So other people have mentioned that his home looks in
20:37
Speaker 4: a little bit of disarray and he hasn't put a
20:39
Speaker 4: lot of you know, care into it. If he's all
20:41
Speaker 4: of a sudden building a deck, again, that's a clue.
20:44
Speaker 2: Not a lot of care, but enough cared to poor cement?
20:48
Speaker 2: Cement pray, can you tell me, Kristin Thorne, let's follow
20:51
Speaker 2: up on what Cheryl McCollum just said, Kristin joining us
20:53
Speaker 2: from ABC Channel seven about the cement being poured to
20:58
Speaker 2: soundproof or well nanty.
21:00
Speaker 5: This is coming from a former co worker of his,
21:03
Speaker 5: and I have a lot of, you know, concerns about this.
21:07
Speaker 5: One is that it's been very difficult for us to
21:09
Speaker 5: hear from coworkers of former co workers. We've been trying
21:12
Speaker 5: to do that. In this article that we're seeing, it
21:14
Speaker 5: doesn't name who that person is. I'm certainly curious about
21:17
Speaker 5: who this person is. But second of all, I'd love
21:21
Speaker 5: to talk to this person myself because I'd like to
21:23
Speaker 5: know when when did this supposedly happen, When did he
21:26
Speaker 5: take this time off from work to do this?
21:28
Speaker 8: And really, you know.
21:30
Speaker 5: If I knew somebody, I'm not trying to blame. I'm
21:33
Speaker 5: not trying to blame the former co worker here. But
21:35
Speaker 5: you know, if I knew that somebody in their basement
21:38
Speaker 5: was creating a sound proof cement room, I would certainly
21:43
Speaker 5: have a lot of concerns about that, a lot of questions.
21:46
Speaker 5: I'm sure I would have asked, why are you doing that?
21:49
Speaker 5: And I'm just not hearing that from this person.
21:52
Speaker 2: Well, also, I mean, you're dealing with an architect, So
21:55
Speaker 2: if you didn't suspect the architect was a serial killer,
21:58
Speaker 2: you may not think anything of it. Which leads me
22:01
Speaker 2: to another surprise find According to me, me not as
22:06
Speaker 2: much as a surprise of a surprise to the people
22:09
Speaker 2: on this panel. Take to listen to our cut a
22:11
Speaker 2: from Crime Online.
22:13
Speaker 12: The extensive investigation inter Rex Huerman as the Gilgo Beach suspect,
22:17
Speaker 12: revealed he was compulsively searching the Internet for pictures of
22:20
Speaker 12: the victims, pictures of their relatives, their sisters, and their children.
22:24
Speaker 12: The Long Island serial killer is also known to have
22:27
Speaker 12: called one of his victim's sisters, telling her in detail
22:29
Speaker 12: what happened to Melissa Bartholemy detectives also say in their
22:33
Speaker 12: search of the home they uncovered quote a lot of torture,
22:36
Speaker 12: porn and what you would consider depictions of women being abused,
22:39
Speaker 12: raped and killed.
22:40
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, what is torture porn and why is
22:44
Speaker 2: it significant in this search?
22:46
Speaker 8: Well, I think it's important to reset and ask ourselves
22:48
Speaker 8: why do serial killers kill? And there is kind of
22:52
Speaker 8: a biological basis for it, believe it or not, which
22:55
Speaker 8: is that, you know, brain scans show that they don't
22:58
Speaker 8: have arousal and excitement, particularly sexual arousal, but also just
23:03
Speaker 8: joy in living in normal ways. So they have to
23:07
Speaker 8: increasingly go to more and more perverse, torturous, stetigized images
23:14
Speaker 8: and activities in order to enhance their sexual arousal. That's
23:18
Speaker 8: the whole mo. So they might start small, maybe maybe
23:21
Speaker 8: like looking at porn pornographic images online of men and
23:27
Speaker 8: women having sex, let's say, and then you know, pretty
23:30
Speaker 8: soon that's not enough. So then they're going to graduate
23:32
Speaker 8: to maybe something a little bit more kinky. That's not enough.
23:36
Speaker 8: Then they go to torture porn, where maybe it's a BDSM,
23:39
Speaker 8: maybe a woman being held in a cage, maybe someone
23:43
Speaker 8: being splashed, someone being tortured, you know, knives being run
23:47
Speaker 8: across a person's back, some man's hand being squished, under
23:51
Speaker 8: a woman's heel, you know, these kinds of things. And
23:53
Speaker 8: at a certain point that's not enough either. So then
23:56
Speaker 8: the perpetrator graduates to killing and then killing enough. Now
24:00
Speaker 8: he has to really have control over the entire family.
24:04
Speaker 8: I mean remember BTK killer Dennis Raider. He did not
24:08
Speaker 8: just find women to kill. He killed entire families he
24:14
Speaker 8: held in the hostage. You know, it's like nothing is
24:17
Speaker 8: quite enough. So when I look at the picture, which
24:21
Speaker 8: is kind of like a rorshack test, that white sheet
24:23
Speaker 8: of paper with all these images and people are looking
24:26
Speaker 8: into this excavation site, it really could be anything. I mean,
24:31
Speaker 8: it's just sort of that it's us for prabs what
24:34
Speaker 8: this guy wanted to hold on to and why he
24:37
Speaker 8: discarded certain things.
24:38
Speaker 2: Speaking of discarding, not just discarding, digging in the yard
24:45
Speaker 2: at all hours of the day and night, burning items
24:49
Speaker 2: tacos now are cut In ninety three from News Nation,
24:52
Speaker 2: this is a neighbor of humans.
24:54
Speaker 13: I was watching TV in my basement, went outside. Who
24:57
Speaker 13: was like one or two in the morning the same
24:59
Speaker 13: time that I I saw him, you know, park his
25:01
Speaker 13: car in front of his house and leave it idle.
25:03
Speaker 13: But when I was eighteen nineteen years old, I heard
25:06
Speaker 13: digging in the backyard next door. Now I really wanted
25:09
Speaker 13: to go and check out what it was, and like,
25:11
Speaker 13: look through the fence. The fence had little fake ress
25:14
Speaker 13: on it. Something stopped myself from doing it. You know,
25:16
Speaker 13: I was nervous. I wasn't too sure what I was
25:18
Speaker 13: hearing at the time. But now with everything coming to fruition,
25:22
Speaker 13: you know, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
25:23
Speaker 2: Good digging in the backyard at two a m and more,
25:28
Speaker 2: let's not cut ninety one.
25:30
Speaker 13: You know, every instance, even just the way he looked,
25:34
Speaker 13: I always thought this guy was a weirdo, you know,
25:37
Speaker 13: freaking everything that's come up, you know, the vile Google
25:41
Speaker 13: searches that he's had. You know, this all makes sense
25:43
Speaker 13: to me now. He would burn his garbage and I
25:46
Speaker 13: would smell it, and I would always wonder, I'm like,
25:48
Speaker 13: why is this guy burning his garbage again? But you know,
25:51
Speaker 13: it seemed to be like once every few weeks, I
25:54
Speaker 13: would smell garbage burning it at his house.
25:56
Speaker 2: Sean McCollum, joining us a forensic expert, Cheryl, I understand
26:02
Speaker 2: a lot of people in areas are allowed to burn
26:05
Speaker 2: their trash, but every other week, you know. It reminds
26:08
Speaker 2: me of and this digging and trash burning would take
26:11
Speaker 2: place at odd hours of the day and night. It
26:14
Speaker 2: reminds me of Stephen Avery, who became a media darling
26:18
Speaker 2: after someone cobbled together a documentary called Making a Murderer.
26:23
Speaker 2: And there's no question he murdered Teresa Halback, a very young,
26:30
Speaker 2: beautiful photographer that came to take a photo at his
26:33
Speaker 2: home a salvage lot, a car, a vehicle he was selling,
26:39
Speaker 2: never seen again. He stayed up all night and this
26:43
Speaker 2: is according to friends and family members, blood relatives, stirring
26:48
Speaker 2: a fire pit in the backyard. Later, the studs off
26:53
Speaker 2: the back of Teresa Hallback's Dacy Fuente's jeans were found there,
26:59
Speaker 2: along with other indicators like teeth in that fire pit.
27:04
Speaker 2: All right, so when your neighbor is digging and burning
27:09
Speaker 2: at odd hours of the day and night, just think
27:13
Speaker 2: Stephen Avery, I mean Cheryl jump in.
27:16
Speaker 4: Well, we know Wayne Williams burned things. Yep, we know
27:19
Speaker 4: the accused killer and Delphi Richard Allen burn things in
27:22
Speaker 4: a fire pit.
27:23
Speaker 8: This is not new.
27:25
Speaker 4: They burn things that they know if a loved one
27:28
Speaker 4: or eventually law enforcement were too fine, They're not going
27:32
Speaker 4: to have a way to explain what these things are,
27:34
Speaker 4: so they have to get rid of it the best
27:36
Speaker 4: way that they know, and that's by burning it. What
27:39
Speaker 4: you're probably seeing on that sheet that they're taking the
27:43
Speaker 4: photograph of those items are going to be connected, I believe,
27:47
Speaker 4: to individual victims, whether they're belt bunkers or zippers or
27:51
Speaker 4: maybe even a holster. He knew he had to bury
27:54
Speaker 4: it to get away, to get it out of sight.
27:57
Speaker 11: He didn't even.
27:58
Speaker 4: Trust putting it in garbage. He had to try to
28:01
Speaker 4: destroy it and then bury it.
28:03
Speaker 2: You know what's really interesting, well, all of it is.
28:05
Speaker 2: But Chris mcdonnald joining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former
28:08
Speaker 2: homicide detective, host of The Interview Room, has investigated and
28:13
Speaker 2: cracked many of them, around three hundred homicides. Chris, it's
28:20
Speaker 2: the cover up. Do I have to say Watergate the
28:23
Speaker 2: burglary is bad enough, But I mean this spine was
28:26
Speaker 2: bad enough at the cover up. That's what did it.
28:30
Speaker 2: In the Chase Master case we were just talking about
28:33
Speaker 2: the part would have gotten away if he hadn't covered
28:35
Speaker 2: up the evidence in his back yard. Hello, and now
28:39
Speaker 2: we've got neighbors saying this guy is out digging and
28:43
Speaker 2: burning at two o'clock in the morning. Look, I don't
28:46
Speaker 2: want to be Gladys Kravitz. I guess you're familiar with
28:49
Speaker 2: which the nosy next door neighbor, but that is not normal.
28:54
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough.
28:55
Speaker 7: Yeah. And you know what's interesting is Nancio's Please you'll
28:58
Speaker 7: think about this with him even further. You know, Gacy,
29:03
Speaker 7: remember used to put people under his house, and he
29:06
Speaker 7: was a contractor, and he would tell his neighbors when
29:09
Speaker 7: they would smell stuff. All the sewers backed up, okay,
29:13
Speaker 7: and everybody was like, oh, okay, you know that's weird.
29:16
Speaker 7: And so it's not It's not an anomaly for this
29:19
Speaker 7: neighbor next door to say, you know, hey, I had
29:21
Speaker 7: a little fear about this guy based on the fact that,
29:25
Speaker 7: you know, he just didn't fit the mold of everybody
29:29
Speaker 7: else in the neighborhood. But what's interesting is that house
29:33
Speaker 7: and of itself is frozen in time. And I was
29:37
Speaker 7: talking to you know, one of my colleagues on the
29:39
Speaker 7: Cold Case Foundation, doctor Bracado, last night, and he said, look,
29:43
Speaker 7: this whole thing he feels is going to be you know,
29:47
Speaker 7: it's going to come down to when his father died
29:50
Speaker 7: and his mother took over and and I'm not going
29:54
Speaker 7: to go down that road yet, you know, with you,
29:57
Speaker 7: because I know you're headed that way. But at the
29:59
Speaker 7: same time time, if we really look at what he's
30:03
Speaker 7: doing here, this is a total control of not only
30:07
Speaker 7: the victims, but his environment and how he is destroying
30:11
Speaker 7: all of the post incident type of evidence potential that
30:16
Speaker 7: Cheryl was just talking about.
30:18
Speaker 2: This guy can't control here, BENI.
30:20
Speaker 8: You know, is he I see, I'm always conflicted about this.
30:24
Speaker 8: Is he destroying evidence primarily? Or was he keeping the
30:28
Speaker 8: victims and the body parts around as long as possible
30:33
Speaker 8: to eke out as much sexual excitement as possible, and
30:37
Speaker 8: then in some messy, hasty way he had to get
30:39
Speaker 8: rid of them. It's the last minutes. He reminds me
30:42
Speaker 8: a little bit of like a teenager addicted to video
30:45
Speaker 8: games and you walk into the room and there's just
30:47
Speaker 8: trash and you know, leftover food and pizza crust and everything,
30:52
Speaker 8: and they're just staring into that video screen and nothing
30:55
Speaker 8: else matters to them until they get in trouble with
30:57
Speaker 8: their mother and they have to shut everything down real
30:59
Speaker 8: quickly until they can get back to their video games. Again,
31:02
Speaker 8: and I think it's a little bit like that. I
31:04
Speaker 8: mean women maybe being held in dog cages, held in
31:09
Speaker 8: the soundproof room setishize objects being kept around and tell
31:15
Speaker 8: somebody's about to discover them, and then the cover up
31:20
Speaker 8: is not well thought out. It's just secondary.
31:23
Speaker 2: Well, if this neighbor is to be believed, he was
31:26
Speaker 2: digging and burning years ago. This didn't just happen, you know,
31:31
Speaker 2: just before he became a suspect, so he has a
31:34
Speaker 2: history of that. And also sitting in his car at
31:37
Speaker 2: one or two o'clock in the morning with the car
31:40
Speaker 2: running on the doors locked. Okay, you know what if
31:44
Speaker 2: I found my husband, David Lynch sitting out in the
31:46
Speaker 2: car at two o'clock in the morning, I would absolutely
31:51
Speaker 2: call his mother, even if it required a seance to
31:54
Speaker 2: do it.
32:06
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
32:12
Speaker 2: Guys More is unfolding? Is duck hunting one of his covers?
32:19
Speaker 2: Don't laugh. Take a listener our cut ninety five Our
32:21
Speaker 2: friends at Inside Edition.
32:23
Speaker 14: Did the cues Gilgo Beach serial killer use duck hunting
32:26
Speaker 14: as cover to hide the bodies of the victims. That's
32:29
Speaker 14: the latest theory in the probe gripping America. I went
32:32
Speaker 14: out with former FBI investigator Bill Daily across these remote
32:36
Speaker 14: bays and coves. We're close to Gyilgo Beach where the
32:39
Speaker 14: bodies were found. The home of the suspect, Rex Huerman
32:42
Speaker 14: is about five miles that way. Please say Huerman was
32:45
Speaker 14: an avid duck hunter who knows these waters well.
32:48
Speaker 2: And also the camouflage burrow at bags, the coverings that
32:52
Speaker 2: were used to dispose of at least four of the
32:55
Speaker 2: victims is also used can be used for duck hunting.
33:01
Speaker 2: But that's not all. We have been talking about potential
33:06
Speaker 2: connections to Vegas where he has a luxury time share
33:10
Speaker 2: that he visits as he said, according to Kristen Thorne
33:13
Speaker 2: at ABC Quote for Pleasure, also a remote compound in
33:19
Speaker 2: South Carolina near his brother but now Atlantic City. But first,
33:27
Speaker 2: let's start with an actual potential victim, an unsolved murder.
33:32
Speaker 2: Take us our cut eighty two are friends at CBS.
33:34
Speaker 15: Investigators are looking to see if Huerman is connected to
33:38
Speaker 15: other unsolved murders throughout the county and the country. Suffolk
33:42
Speaker 15: County officials have executed several warrants, including in South Carolina
33:46
Speaker 15: and Las Vegas, where the alleged killer had ties. Police
33:50
Speaker 15: in South Carolina are looking into whether a twenty fourteen
33:53
Speaker 15: missing person case could be tied to Hueman as well.
33:56
Speaker 15: Eighteen year old Eliabel went missing about twenty miles from
33:59
Speaker 15: where he Yuerman owned land, but so far police have
34:02
Speaker 15: found no connection.
34:04
Speaker 2: So there's actually a name now attached to that investigation.
34:09
Speaker 2: But I'm now hearing about Atlantic City as well. What
34:15
Speaker 2: do we know about that? Take a listen to our
34:18
Speaker 2: cut eighty three.
34:19
Speaker 15: Long Island investigators are actively working with Atlantic City police
34:23
Speaker 15: to determine if Huerman is involved in a string of
34:26
Speaker 15: unsolved killings of young women.
34:28
Speaker 14: As it stands right now, these charges are just allegations,
34:32
Speaker 14: but we look very much forward to proving them in court.
34:35
Speaker 15: Part of what led to Hureman's arrest were hairstrands found
34:37
Speaker 15: on the victims that matched his wife's hair. She has
34:41
Speaker 15: now filed for divorce. According to her attorney, She and
34:44
Speaker 15: their adult children are still in shock that they were
34:47
Speaker 15: told to leave this home with cloths on their back.
34:50
Speaker 2: And Vegas. Take a list in our cut one ten
34:52
Speaker 2: our friends at ABC.
34:54
Speaker 16: The investigation expanding to other states. Police in Las Vegas, Nevada,
34:58
Speaker 16: say they're looking into possible con actions to unsolved cases.
35:02
Speaker 16: Kureman and his wife owned a time share at this
35:04
Speaker 16: Las Vegas condo complex called Club da Solange in rock Hill,
35:08
Speaker 16: South Carolina. Police trying to determine if Huerman could be
35:11
Speaker 16: connected to the twenty fourteen disappearance of Eliah Bell. The
35:15
Speaker 16: eighteen year old went missing about twenty miles from the
35:18
Speaker 16: vacant lots Huerman owned there.
35:20
Speaker 2: So we've got South Carolina where warrants have been issued, Vegas,
35:24
Speaker 2: where warrants have been issued by Suffolk police in New
35:27
Speaker 2: York Bawa's circle. Back to the Atlantic City issue. Take
35:32
Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at Inside edition and cut
35:34
Speaker 2: ninety eight.
35:35
Speaker 14: New Jersey police are investigating possible links with four earily
35:39
Speaker 14: similar murders in Atlantic City. The terrain around the drainage
35:43
Speaker 14: ditch where the bodies were found looks like Gyogo Beach.
35:47
Speaker 6: Any of these coal cases that either relate to sex
35:50
Speaker 6: workers or even other people who have disappeared could relate
35:54
Speaker 6: to him.
35:54
Speaker 2: And speaking of sex workers, apparently sex workers had raised
35:58
Speaker 2: the alarm Heureman years ago, nothing was done. Take a
36:04
Speaker 2: listen to our friend Kristin Thorn ABC seven, cut eighty nine.
36:09
Speaker 5: When the name Rex Huerman came out, she ran his
36:12
Speaker 5: information through her phone.
36:14
Speaker 17: One of the phone numbers was saved as do not
36:16
Speaker 17: answer from twenty twenty.
36:18
Speaker 8: I don't remember the.
36:19
Speaker 17: Specific details of how or why that happened, but if
36:23
Speaker 17: I get a vibe from somebody that this person is scary,
36:26
Speaker 17: that's when I'll save them as.
36:28
Speaker 8: Do not answer.
36:29
Speaker 5: The woman says she was living in Massapequa at the time, so.
36:33
Speaker 17: It's really scary to find out that the person was
36:36
Speaker 17: actually only less than a mile from me.
36:39
Speaker 2: Kristen Thorn is joining US investigative reporter, very well known
36:44
Speaker 2: who's been on this case from the beginning at ABC seven.
36:48
Speaker 2: You can also find her on the Hulu true crime
36:51
Speaker 2: show Missing So Kristin Thorn. The sex workers, one of
36:55
Speaker 2: them at least putting him on a do not answer list.
37:00
Speaker 2: That was back in twenty twenty. She lived in Massapequa
37:04
Speaker 2: and human freaked her out so much she wouldn't even
37:06
Speaker 2: take calls. And we're now learning thanks to you, that
37:10
Speaker 2: many sex workers would not take calls from the Hamptons
37:14
Speaker 2: because they were so afraid of a serial killer, but
37:17
Speaker 2: nothing was done.
37:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy, and I think we're also really illuminating for
37:22
Speaker 5: me and speaking with these sex workers from this area
37:25
Speaker 5: is that they are hearing from fellow workers that agencies
37:31
Speaker 5: in New York City had contacted law enforcement about rex
37:35
Speaker 5: Hureman that he was a problematic client. And when I
37:38
Speaker 5: asked them, what do you mean problematic? And have you
37:40
Speaker 5: seen anywhere on these sites that you're on women talking
37:44
Speaker 5: about why he was problematic? And they said no. But
37:47
Speaker 5: that still is very concerning to me. It would not
37:50
Speaker 5: be surprising that sex workers who felt that this was
37:54
Speaker 5: not a good situation were contacting law enforcement, and law
37:58
Speaker 5: enforcement was not paying attention to them. And so we
38:02
Speaker 5: know that there may have been hints about him throughout
38:06
Speaker 5: the years. But again they're coming from communities and from
38:08
Speaker 5: groups of people that aren't often listening.
38:10
Speaker 4: To amen question.
38:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, jump in, go ahead.
38:14
Speaker 4: You and I have spent plenty of time on FIB.
38:17
Speaker 4: We know the track. We understand this population. Sex workers
38:23
Speaker 4: have people come to them for fetishes and desires and
38:28
Speaker 4: fantasies that are so out of bound and so repulsive
38:32
Speaker 4: they have to go to somebody to pay them to
38:35
Speaker 4: do it. If you have somebody from that community saying
38:39
Speaker 4: this guy freaks me out, think what he has to
38:43
Speaker 4: do to freak her out when all of these other
38:47
Speaker 4: thousands of men, hundreds of men have not.
38:49
Speaker 2: You're so right, it's my understanding. The fifty nine year
38:53
Speaker 2: old architect and father of two was very calm and
38:57
Speaker 2: very quiet when he was arrested on allegations of being
39:00
Speaker 2: a serial killer and only said why and was very
39:06
Speaker 2: calm about it. You know, most people will be jumping
39:08
Speaker 2: out of their skin, I mean, why are you arresting me?
39:11
Speaker 2: Throwing a fit. He was very calm, and if you
39:14
Speaker 2: look at the video of him being arrested, it it
39:18
Speaker 2: bears out what investigators are saying, Chris jump in.
39:21
Speaker 7: You know, listening. That's why it's really important from an
39:25
Speaker 7: investigative process, while this thing is moving, you know, fluidly
39:30
Speaker 7: day to day, it's it's really important to pay attention
39:33
Speaker 7: to that victimology in relationship to the type of victims
39:38
Speaker 7: that this individual was, you know, picking, selecting. And then
39:44
Speaker 7: when you hear about his you know, reaction here at
39:47
Speaker 7: the time of his arrest, you know, it's almost as if, well, okay,
39:52
Speaker 7: it's it may be over. I'm not sure yet, but
39:56
Speaker 7: if he reminds me of Porter down in Shan Diego,
39:59
Speaker 7: they forty three body dumps, and that guy, you know,
40:04
Speaker 7: David Porter, was going right after the same kind of victimology.
40:09
Speaker 7: So if we take him I e. Herman here, and
40:13
Speaker 7: we look at the type of victim he's selecting, and
40:16
Speaker 7: then we measure it against the other type of individuals
40:20
Speaker 7: doing this, then they're totally different. And so this guy
40:24
Speaker 7: is much more calculating and much more willing to take
40:29
Speaker 7: higher risk and so I don't think it was a
40:31
Speaker 7: big surprise to him that ultimately with technology would touch
40:35
Speaker 7: up to him.
40:35
Speaker 2: I agree, guys, we are just getting late breaking news
40:39
Speaker 2: right now from the Suffolk County Police. There is not
40:45
Speaker 2: a sound proof room. There is, however, a vault, a
40:51
Speaker 2: vault likely lined with cement. Goodbye friend,