Latest / MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose / Episode 155: How to Build Lasting Friendships with Becky Harling

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Episode 155: How to Build Lasting Friendships with Becky Harling · MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose

0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Cynthia Gannoff and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey friends, welcome to the podcast.
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you're with us today.
0:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's summer and I know it's crazy.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so thank you for taking time to list this podcast, even if you're having to hide in your closet away from the children.
0:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Please know I am there with you.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I fully can appreciate that.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, one of mine is sitting on a floor right now next to my desk.
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: My youngest and so yes.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It is somewhere, isn't it, everyone?
0:38
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, today we're talking out friendship.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I ran across this book.
0:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I am very fortunate I get lots of books that come to me.
0:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Different people that have written things that would love to come on the podcast.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I saw this one on friendship, I was like, oh yeah, we got to make this happen.
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've never met Becky Hurling before.
0:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But today we get to hear from her and her book is called Friendwise.
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: practical ideas for richer relationships, and I say it's on the podcast, but I'll say it before as well.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever I speak almost every time, I will be asked to mention friendship, or give a few thoughts on the importance of friendships, and so who doesn't need a brush up?
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: My self included on what matters and what's hard and how to have good, wholesome, godly community around us, and so I'm so thrilled that Becky could come on the show when we got this scheduled, and I know you're going to enjoy her.
1:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, one other thing, and I know you're gonna be like, we heard you keep saying this, but I'm gonna say it again, please, please.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to CynthiaGanoff.com and put in your email address because we are going to be sending out a survey and asking for some feedback on this podcast, and I'm looking at making some changes, maybe some significant changes, and I just want you guys to be a part of that, and so many of you, like really, so many of you have done that.
1:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so thankful, and for the rest of you, come on, come on!
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I would really be grateful, and you know I'm not gonna spam you, I'm not that kind of girl, and I don't have the energy or time to figure out how to spam people.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So once a week you'll hear from me and maybe a couple emails, not maybe, definitely, a couple emails where we're going to look at the longevity of the show and maybe some changes that I'm thinking out making.
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So everyone, go to Cynthiagana.com.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's talk friendship with Becky Harley, here we go.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Becky, welcome to mesmerize.
2:28
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing?
2:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I'm doing great, Cynthia.
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.
2:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, of course, listen.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: When I see a book float across my desk on Friendship, I stop and pause every time.
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that is one of the topics that I feel like we all need a little conversation around.
2:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We all need a little help with.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so thanks for writing that.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get to that.
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But just tell everybody where you are in life and what's going on.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I live in Colorado Springs.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I live with my husband.
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been married for 47 years.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: We have four adult kids and the best part about our lives is that we have 14 grand kids.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And they will all be coming this next weekend.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they all live around us, but they'll be actually like moving in with us for what we call cousin's camp.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So it will be wild and wonderful.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how fun.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're taping this the week of 4th of July.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So it sounds like you're going to have an eventful few weeks coming up.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I am exciting.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm so thrilled about that.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You've written how many books now I was looking up to remember the title of this book and I put in Becky Harling books and then I was like, oh, well, apparently there's a lot of them.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Cynthia.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have written 16 books and I am writing my 17th right now.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so God's incredible.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's incredible.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I've written two in it, nearly cost me my sanity on book two.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you're really getting it done over there.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's amazing.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, so Becky, I get to speak a lot of places and you probably do too.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the country, and I'm so grateful for that.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: and almost every time I'm asked to speak in some regard to bring up friendship.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And someplace, like, just can you throw in a little bit on friendship?
4:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And of all the places I've spoken, I've never had anybody come up to me and be like, oh, man, I wish you wouldn't have talked about that.
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I have too much connection in my life, or I think I've got friendship figured out.
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That never happens, right?
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all trying to figure it out.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, let's just start with this.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's our problem?
4:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening with that?
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: What's our problem?
4:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Our problems are maybe many.
4:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
4:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think a lot of times people sit back and they just think, you know, I'm this great person.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: People are gonna knock down my door to be my friend and they don't realize they need to take initiative.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one problem.
4:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there are sometimes when people just are so busy, you know, they're running to the next appointment to the next job thing.
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They're chasing their kids.
5:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly you do have to slow down if you're going to be a good friend and if you're going to have good friends you have to be a good friend and I think a lot of us don't know how to do that.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's it.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
5:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, a lot of times when I speak on friendship and I say that when I first started talking out friendship, I would always give kind of a how to like a few thoughts on how to have good friendships, but in the recent years, I've changed to less of a how to and more of a why to like why does it matter.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think for so many of us, we probably know the how to, although we're gonna hit some of that today, but that why, too, why does it matter?
5:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess that's what I wanna ask you.
5:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your word on that to someone who's listening?
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I'm in a busy stage of life, or I have young kids, or my husband travels all the time, or whatever the thing is, why does it matter even in the midst of these busy crazy times?
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: because God has designed you for friendship and relationship.
6:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You grow best in community.
6:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are huge emotional and even physical health benefits to friendship.
6:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it lowers your blood pressure.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It lowers your stress level to be in a good friendship.
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It decreases your risk for depression or anxiety.
6:36
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, one study I read, this is fascinating.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: says that spending time with good friends gives you as much happiness as if you are getting 133,000 dollar raise every year.
6:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So our our our friendships matter as far as our happiness as far as our mental health and our physical health and even our spiritual health.
7:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
7:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And you mentioned intentionality before.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Can we circle back to that for just a minute?
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I, I will say this.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I and all my friends would say this.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very extroverted and have a lot of friends and not like, oh, Cynthia, so great everybody loves her.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I just love to be around people and I like a lot of different kinds of people.
7:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I have friendships for decades and decades, right?
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've really old friends and I have friends.
7:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I've met last two weeks and I'm like, they're so much fun.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to hang out with them.
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is that intentionality component to it.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you have to decide that I want to have friends.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be around friends.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to have deep connections.
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to have maybe some connections and aren't as deep.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, that's my intention on it.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I want friends.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that well, necessarily, but are super fun.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I want friends that I can pour out my heart, everything in between.
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm wondering, can you talk about that for just a minute?
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: What does that intentionality look like for everyone?
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe you're not extroverted.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you don't need as many friends, but there's still an intentionality component.
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: There absolutely is, you know, there's an interesting verse in Proverbs, Proverbs 132, that says the complacency is really at what fools use.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they become complacent and I think a lot of us have become complacent in the area of friendship.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we want friends, we may be like,
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: yourself very extroverted, love hanging around with people, or we may be really introverted and afraid to reach out to people.
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is if you don't reach out and take initiative, you're not going to have friends.
8:43
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I have served in churches around the country and also overseas.
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is something that really
8:53
[SPEAKER_00]: gets to me is when I visit a church and I'm speaking like yourself and somebody says to me, you know, I've tried and I just can't find community here and I understand that.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be empathetic towards that.
9:07
[SPEAKER_00]: However, I always want to say, what have you tried?
9:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you gotten involved in a small group?
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you asked somebody out to coffee?
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you invited a family over to your house for pizza and pop?
9:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you hosted a barbeque in your home?
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what have you done to try?
9:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if we don't take initiative, we will not have friends.
9:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Mmm, it's good word.
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's funny as I was looking through and reading your book one of the things you talked about is my I would say the my number one thing in friendship and any of my friends listening to this would be able to say it out loud before I say it but the number one thing for me in friendship that I'm looking for is loyalty.
9:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm loyal, and I really, really value loyalty, and when I don't see loyalty in a friendship, it's not that I dismiss people, but I'm like, you're probably not gonna be in my inner circle, because that's a value that I really uphold.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, this is a quote from your book.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You said, loyalty is one of the most beautiful qualities I can think of in friendship.
10:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They are steadfast and committed.
10:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They provide a safe place of belonging.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Some friends will be loyal for a lifetime.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Other friends are loyal for a season, but those seasons may change.
10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Friends move away or life circumstances dictate that they are no longer as available as they once were.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: When you create a circle of loyal friends, you create a community of belonging.
10:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's such an important word.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about that in my kids' life, but also in my own.
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The friends that I'm closest with that I've had for decades are people that I know that my name is safe in any room I'm not in.
10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: and the same thing for them.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: These are people that are cheering me on in places I will probably never hear about.
10:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And that sense of loyalty, and I want to have that for them as well.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's something that's hard to find.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think about that in our junior high girls or high school girls.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But really, that quality,
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: does not go away of this backstabbing.
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: This talking behind each other's backs is assuming the worst.
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that, it doesn't necessarily end when we are grown adults.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so talk to us about loyalty and how that plays into our friendships.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Loyalty is here.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, it does provide us a sense of belonging.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think in order to be a really loyal friend, you have to understand that people are not perfect, right?
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the people that have been in my life for decades, the friends that I've had for years and years, they could tell you all of my, um, idiosyncrasies, you know, they could tell you that I'm not perfect, you know?
11:43
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a safety there.
11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a circle of safety that surrounds you.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think of one friend that I've had for over 30 years, you know, and she sent me a mug or gave me a mug and it says it takes a long time to become old friends.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that mug, but you know, she and I started out when our kids were toddlers praying together, watching the kids play, we moved all over the place, but we remained close friends and we prayed for each other.
12:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We have had hilarious times of laughter, you know, with your friends that are loyal to you, you can laugh at yourself.
12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all need to laugh at ourselves, right?
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we do,
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Airheaded things.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: We do silly things.
12:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We lose our keys.
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We go to wrong restaurants.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We show up late.
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We mess up time zones.
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, whatever it is.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But with your friends that are loyal,
12:42
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, like you said, first of all, they have your back and they can laugh with you and they love you anyway and they're not looking to just get offended and ditch at the first little mistake you make.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good word.
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, if I read this correctly, you've been through a cancer journey.
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that right?
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that is absolutely correct.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how did that change?
13:06
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you view Fringeum?
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, cancer was really clarifying for me.
13:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say that to people all the time, you know, let's be real nobody wants cancer.
13:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I certainly didn't.
13:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I was in the midst of still raising four kids.
13:21
[SPEAKER_00]: However, cancer ended up being a very clarifying journey for me because it gave me a lot of time in recovering from surgeries and whatnot to really ask the question, okay, you discover with cancer that life is short.
13:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And what do I want my life to look like?
13:40
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I want to show up?
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of friend do I want to be?
13:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, first of all, I wanted to go deeper in my relationship with God.
13:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to go deeper in my relationship with my husband and my kids, but also, I wanted to slow down a little bit and spend more intentional time with friends.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm a natural born achiever, Cynthia.
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I graduated high school in three years.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I am always on to the next project or the next thing.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're the next book, Becky.
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
14:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to think anything more about your achiever status.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, go on.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: can get in the way of deep friendships because friendships take time.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're always chasing after the next dream or goal, you know, your friends get tired of waiting for you to have lunch.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: They get tired of waiting.
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, cancer was really clarifying because from that moment on, I began to create more space in my life.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: For friends, you know, this week alone, I had lunch with a friend yesterday, I'll have lunch with another dear friend tomorrow, and I make space and time every week to have time with friends because they're important.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've got this friends, these friends back here that we, we call it the Wednesday lunch group and we get a lunch every Wednesday people who listen to us now now my Wednesday lunch friends are probably listening to this right now and totally calling me out because I go through seasons where I don't go much at all like when I ride a book or whatever.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I love about this is every Wednesday, and again, that's extreme not everybody can do that.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But every Wednesday there is some group of those girls and we made it a place of super informal.
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You can even bring your own lunch, whatever, and there's somebody there.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I love about that group is that
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: their safe space.
15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We have cried at that table.
15:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We have laughed at that table.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We have called each other out at that table and love.
15:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We have called out some hard things that I always know.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: If everything else breaks loose during the week, Wednesday at noon, there is a group of people that love me and will surround me and will show up.
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But to your point, it's that intentionality behind it, right?
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that decision of they're not always going to be people out there waiting on us if we're not going to show up.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen that.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: There's been seasons and I love these friends who will say Cynthia, this has to be a priority.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to show up.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I appreciate the candor.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, you're right.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's really sweet if you can have those rhythms in place.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would be maybe some of my friendship advices, put natural rhythms in place that just happen because when life gets busy or maybe you're not feeling it or you're down or discouraged or your kids done something stupid and you wanna hide like you have rhythms in place that don't allow that.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a difference, yes.
16:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It totally, as you know, it's funny looking back because life has changed so much since them, but my grandmother had a best friend.
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Her name was, I mean, her name was Isabelle.
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We all call her aunt Isabelle.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: She was not related to us at all.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know her last name to this day.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But every day at three o'clock, my grandmother would have an Isabella over and they would have coffee and coffee cake together.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I look at my schedule with writing deadlines and speaking and podcasting and all the things coaching.
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But, and I don't have time for that yet, still.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I can be intentional.
17:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I can look at my calendar and say, what days this week?
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to hang with life giving friends because they make my life richer and fuller.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good word.
17:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about what I'm calling.
17:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't call him this.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm calling him friendship killers.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That are tough on friendships, right?
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to read a quote from your book.
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this one's so good.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Our thoughts can get us into trouble in our friendships.
17:36
[SPEAKER_01]: When we create meaning in our minds about someone else's actions, we are on shaky ground.
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We can never completely know another person's motive, yet we can imagine scenarios all the time.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Friend, making up stories in our minds about someone else's motives is very dangerous.
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We must, in the words of a possible, learn to take every thought captive.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We must learn to put a fence around our thoughts and learn the power of containing them.
18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And this idea of assumptions we make or false narratives, haven't we all done that?
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk to us about that.
18:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're laying in bed at night, you know, and maybe one of your friends couldn't make it to your Wednesday lunch, or maybe she couldn't make it to your party that you were hosting.
18:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden you spin scenarios in your head, like, oh, well, she doesn't value the friendship as much as me, or
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, clearly, I can't invite her again because she doesn't make time for me.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's wrong because everybody truly is trying their best.
18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can't know what another person is thinking.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So a good rule of thumb is assume the best about another person.
18:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't assume that they're talking behind your back.
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't assume that they don't have time for you.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Assume the best.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And then from there, you can deal with whatever reality throws at you.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, assuming the best.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think back in my life of so many places where if I would have assumed the best, it would have been a game changer, not just on how I view that person, but for that person, like we need people surrounding us that believe the best in us.
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And even when we have those weak moments, those cracks in the armor, and like you said, like we all have them, we all have our deficits.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But to have people around you that are assuming the best about you that know your heart, that know your character, that know your history,
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: like that is such a gift you can give to someone through friendship and so I love that and so friendship killer number one is making assumptions right letting our thoughts get us out of control.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another one friendship killer that comes from your book that I was thinking about.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: inability to deal with conflict like that's a friendship killer because listen if you know someone very well then you will have conflict right there's I mean that's just how it goes and so I feel like this is a big deficit in Christian women I think it's a big deficit sometimes in our churches and how we deal with conflict and so let's let's take a minute and talk about that how do we do this in a God honoring way in a healthy way when there's conflict how
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have to enter into the conflict.
20:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of us that were raised in the church are afraid of conflict.
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly, that was true of myself for a long time.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the tendency then is to hide.
20:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not going to deal with this conflict.
20:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to hide.
20:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to ignore and hope it all goes away.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't really help you or your friend.
20:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead,
20:39
[SPEAKER_00]: be willing to take the risk to open the conflict up.
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Gently, you know, we have to put on gentleness.
20:46
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a fruit of the spirit.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to say, Holy Spirit, develop gentleness in me.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And we bring it up and then we listen.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We listen to understand the other person's perspective.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of times we try to talk to persuade of our perspective rather than,
21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: listening to understand where our friends coming from.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But if we truly will listen to understand a lot of times you can find something in there that you can apologize for.
21:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you have a friend who has never apologized to you ever and you've been friends for like 20 or 30 years,
21:23
[SPEAKER_00]: they're probably not a real emotionally healthy friend, right?
21:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I can think of tons of times when I've had to apologize to friends, you know?
21:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I've said something without thinking or I've joked too much in a way that maybe
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: offended them.
21:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't mean to, but you know, I made a mistake.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I did something else to offend them.
21:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always want to own my own stuff.
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to be able to say in a conflict, I'm so sorry.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not mean to hurt you.
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I really value this friendship.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another thing in a conflict.
21:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Reaffirm that you value the friendship.
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I value this friendship.
22:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I really want to apologize.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to know I treasure our friendship.
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So where do we need to go from here?
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could think back on places where people have addressed different issues in a friendship and one is my good friend Stephanie who will probably hear this and she and I laugh about it now But many years ago, she called me one day and was like I need to talk to you about something that's offending me and I I mean I'm extraverted But I'm a big personality too.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So you could find a thousand things to offend you if you really wanted to with me and so and so she's like
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Birthdays are really important to me and my kids birthday is the last several you haven't been able to make them and something's come up now our kids don't really overlap so it's not like I would be taking my kids to her kids birthday But she said for whatever reason it might be weird it matters to me that you show up and I still like back on that and that was the kindest thing one
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: She cared enough to speak that to me and yeah, and too.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: She cared enough that she wanted me there Do I necessarily care about being at everybody's kids birthday?
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I care about that friendship enough that if you tell me Birthdays matter.
23:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure is not gonna be at that birthday and I love that that's a cheap great illustration Cynthia
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, thank you.
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just like back on that, and there's other instances along the way where people have addressed things with me.
23:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I've been like, yeah, I can see that.
23:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I didn't see it, but I cared enough about them.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But in all, yeah, I cared enough about them to make a change and apologize, but in all those instances, I was,
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So thankful that they came to me and that we like we talked about, maybe, you know, not just making assumptions, not just deciding to walk, like they came to me and they were like, hey, I get value this friendship.
23:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's figure it out.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so healthy conflict.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if we can't figure that out, it's a friendship killer.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's one that I think we got to work on.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another one.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: jealousy and envy.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's okay, and you haven't been jealous of your friend, you haven't been friends long enough because there's always I feel like a long the way and something that you're like, oh man, they're kid got that award or they've got this, you know, they got the homecoming queen or there has been got to retire or whatever it is.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would say first can we normalize the fact that sometimes we might feel that jealousy or envy,
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so don't be, let's not just act like a ho, that's never going to happen because when it does happen, then what do we do with it?
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: When it does happen, and it will happen, you know, I think even in body image, women are famous at looking at each other's bodies, like, oh, her bodies better than mine or whatever.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely with kids, husbands, all those things you mentioned, houses,
24:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I think recognizing our human tendency to want more is huge.
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Recognizing when envy comes up immediately, you've got to become what I call a fast confessor.
25:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Lord, I'm sorry, I'm envious right now.
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be.
25:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then switch your thinking, begin to worship the giver of the gifts, rather than the gifts themselves.
25:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have a tendency to want the things that other people have so badly that they become an idol in our life.
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, maybe your friend has the house.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You've always dreamed of in your house as a little cottage.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's falling apart and you really want her house.
25:40
[SPEAKER_00]: begin to thank and praise God for your house.
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a roof over your head, you know?
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Same with, you know, things like husbands.
25:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen women, you know, let jealousy over husbands wreck their friendship, you know?
25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe your husband comes home with flowers every night and mine might not think of that.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay, maybe he has other qualities that are wonderful.
26:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the key to overcoming envy is first of all, become a fast confessor.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: confess it to the Lord.
26:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't necessarily confess it to your friend because then that makes them insecure.
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So like don't go to your friend and say, oh, I'm really jealous because you got this award and I did it.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That probably isn't going to help.
26:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Go to the Lord and confess that.
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But then worship the Lord for the good gifts.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Give him thanks for the good gifts.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: He's provided in your life rather than just the gifts themselves.
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, that's, yeah, that's such a good word.
26:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, there's something else that I was thinking about and then you actually addressed it, because of course you did, because you addressed everything in friendship, but this is something that I think I've come across over the years and it's giving advice, but also,
26:55
[SPEAKER_01]: receiving advice and this is another quote out of your book and I don't even know if I said this everyone my goodness it's called friend-wise the book by Becky Harland friend-wise practical ideas for richer relationships but here's a quote from it and obviously we'll link it everywhere all the places but you said I've noticed in our culture that there is a resistance to receiving any kind of kind of advice.
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Many feel they are experts, and as such, they don't need advice.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not advisable to give an award to advice, however, if you are in a close relationship with someone, and you're not willing to receive advice, there might be an arrogance problem.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Further, you likely won't grow in wisdom.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Our friends who know as well can often serve as sounding boards and discerning listeners.
27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's two sides to that.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: There is giving advice.
27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd love your thoughts on that.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's receiving.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with giving advice.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I say as a general rule, don't give advice, because if you can solve somebody's problem in one minute, that makes them an idiot, right?
27:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they would have thought of it themselves.
28:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they're asking you for advice, that's different.
28:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you can, and sometimes you can give a little advice if it's a really close friendship.
28:11
[SPEAKER_00]: However, you really have to be careful.
28:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you're a mom of adult kids, don't give advice.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, your kids are not going to like that.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Take it from a mother of four adult kids.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But then as far as receiving advice, well, let me say one more thing about giving advice.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody wants to be friends with somebody who's always the expert.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that makes them feel less that.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't come into friendships like, oh, I'm the big expert.
28:41
[SPEAKER_00]: on this and I can tell you exactly what to do.
28:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't do that because that's a turn-off.
28:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But as far as receiving advice, if you have close friends that you've been in friendship with for a long time, and you're really wrestling with something wrestling with a decision or how to handle something invite their advice.
29:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I do this with my friends.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I was wrestling with a decision just in the last week.
29:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I went to three of my really close friends.
29:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, Hey, number one, would you pray for me as I wrestle with this decision.
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Number two, you know, tell me what you think I want to hear that and they each gave me advice and interestingly enough, it all lined up everybody said the same thing.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: which then made my decision a lot easier.
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So be willing to receive advice.
29:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be like, oh, I don't want any of your advice.
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause if you're really good friends, it should be safe enough there to receive advice.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like that you also mentioned that there's an arrogance there, and I think that's a check for all of us.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: If we're not willing to listen to what other people are speaking into, especially like those people that are in our close inner circle, then why is that?
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do we not want to actually hear what that sounding board around us might be?
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is there an arrogance issue?
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that you, you kind of just give us a little check.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good word.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: on receiving and giving advice.
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love what you said about don't be the expert.
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody needs the expert in the friendship on every single thing.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You haven't walked most of the roads other people have.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so stand down on that, right?
30:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So, right, good word, good word.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, I wanted to talk to you about boundaries in friendship, but we're close to out of time, and I want to keep you on schedule.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So, let's just say this.
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give you last words on this.
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to boundaries and our friendships and whatever that looks like why that matters, can you give us your your spiel one minute spiel on that and you're absolutely.
30:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So boundaries make good neighbors, right?
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know where your property starts and where another person's property ends.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: The same holds true in friendship.
30:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to keep my boundaries and understand my limits.
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't trespass on my friends boundaries on her property limits.
30:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting in the Lord's Prayer because Jesus says, forgive those, forgive us as we trespass against others, you know?
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, we trespass when we break somebody's boundaries.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a friend who says, hey, I really can't come to dinner or I really can't serve at that school fair with you.
31:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Respect that.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't push back and break their boundaries.
31:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't call your friend 15 times a day.
31:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a terrible idea, you know, because nobody has time for that.
31:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So respect people's boundaries and show them that you value them.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, all righty, there's so much more you guys on this and so much more we could talk about But for now you need the book friend wise by Becky Hartling and I was thinking to be fun This would be a fun thing to give your girlfriends like a copy of the book and just a sweet note that how much you love them But you know that go through with your friends.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a book club one night and read through this and it's a short book Which I really appreciate because my attention spans that of a net these days
31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a short book and important.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, thanks for being here with us.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey Cynthia, thank you so much for having me.
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Alrighty, you guys all link it all in podcast notes.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: All right friends, we prayed for you before we even started recording today's episode.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my hope is that everyone will listen to it.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: All of us, myself included, that something stuck out.
32:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It did for me, that there's something that the Lord's just speaking of your life, whether that is something related,
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: to intentionality in your friendships, not taking for granted, slowing down, curating the narrative you have around your friendships.
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it was for you, but I think all of us have something that the Lord would speak of our lives.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I hope that as you wrap this up, that you take a few minutes to think about that and pray about that, and also, check out Becky's book, Friend Wise.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, friends, thank you for being a part of the mesmerized family, and very best.