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RTC57: Everything you need to know about prenups · The Curve

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Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money,
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their money for the future they want to have.
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We're all busy and the pursuit for financial confidence and increasing your wealth should be a simple one.
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This podcast is for women to learn about investing in a non-scary or intimidating way.
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With short episodes, you'll have time to learn, digest and understand everything to do with the world of investing.
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So thank you for being here and for listening.
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Because together we really can raise the curve.
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This is the very first time that we've had a repeat guest.
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Me?
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No.
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Okay, sorry, I took it back.
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Other than you were like.
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I'm sorry.
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I was actually like that.
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So Lauren has been in the studio with actually with me, you were away, but we did a bonus episode.
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I saw that.
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I was like, excuse me.
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Yeah, I know.
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Did you feel left out?
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I did.
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I was like, what is this episode?
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I was waiting for it to cut to me and then I was like, no, I don't actually remember being here.
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What is this content?
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I don't know about this.
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So it was at the time when we started talking about relationship finances.
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So how people, you know, separate the finances when they're in a relationship
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and the conversation of prenups, aka contracting out agreements came into the conversation.
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And I was just like, this is a hot topic.
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We've got to get it done.
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Welcome back.
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Thank you so much.
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Also, last time Lauren was here, she was quite heavily pregnant.
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And now I'm a mom.
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And now she's a mom, a five-month-old baby girl.
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Cute.
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Yeah, I think Sophie was more excited for her than you.
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Yeah, sorry.
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I was so excited.
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I was so excited.
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I got it when you said you weren't bringing her.
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So just for the purpose of this conversation, I kind of probably will refer to them as prenups
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because it's easier, it's way easier to say.
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But in terms of legally, they're called contracting out agreements.
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And this is essentially a legally binding contract that states whose property is what if a couple separates.
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So I thought, like God, I sound like I know what I'm talking about, don't I?
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We could do a bit of an overview, Lauren, of the last episode.
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So if you missed it, it's called bonus episode on sharing finances when in a relationship
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and we released it last August.
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So August 2022.
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So if you want a full debrief on how they work, go back.
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Listen.
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Yeah.
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But let's just do some top line.
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This is what they mean.
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And then what I would love to do is go into some questions that have come in, because there's been so many, like voice messages, DMs, all sorts of stuff.
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And I think that as much as we try and explain it, there always seems to be heaps of questions.
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Yeah.
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And every situation is so different.
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Yeah, I mean, that's a big disclaimer at the beginning.
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Yeah.
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Everyone's individual circumstances change things.
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And we're not giving legal advice.
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Oh my god, you say, hey.
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We're not giving financial advice.
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Everyone's situation is different.
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So in New Zealand, we have a piece of law called the Property Relationships Act in 1976, or the PRA.
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And that is a code, and basically its premise is that all relationship property is shared 50-50.
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There is some exceptions to that, but we don't need to kind of delve into that.
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Generally, that means all assets and debts and liabilities, properties got a really wide definition.
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At the end of a relationship, that's shared equally.
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So big ones are the family home, the equity in that shared equally, investments, Kiwi savers, you're a nice Audi.
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Can you share your debts and not your assets?
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Because that would be great.
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And also, shit, if you're the one giving your debts.
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Oh, sure.
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You're a decent dude.
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Like, he's used to it.
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He's used to it.
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That shit is yours.
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But actually, valid reason to look into one, like, say, someone.
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I mean, it probably would be separate debt and separate property, but it might not be.
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Or, like, your mortgage would become relationship debt.
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The act doesn't need to be a code, so you need to get to the end of your relationship.
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If not, you mean to get to the end of a relationship.
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If you get to the end of a relationship and you're separating.
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Generally, we'll look at it and go, OK, this is your property pool.
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You get half and you get half.
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But then there is a section, section 21, which says people can contract out of the PRA.
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Also, that's where the contracting out.
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A agreement.
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Basically, it's like an opt out, basically, of what the law is.
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Yeah, I'm saying we don't want to be in the default position, and that might be
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to all of our assets and liabilities, or just something specific.
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But we don't want the act to apply to that.
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Call.
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Pre-nappers, somewhat misleading, because it's not just before you get married in New Zealand.
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Ah, because that's pre-nuptials.
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Yes, gosh.
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I didn't even think of that.
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Yeah.
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So, in New Zealand, the PRA applies if you're married, or if you've been in a qualified
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effective relationship.
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Which means more.
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Which means more.
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We are defective.
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No, because we don't live together.
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Well, you could be.
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Could be.
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I mean, we've probably spent enough time in this house, in this studio.
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Yeah, I mean, like, are you living in a relationship that's like marriage?
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Some do.
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Don't give her any ideas.
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No, I don't.
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I'm like, which we share our assets.
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I'll show you my mortgage, babe.
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Yeah.
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So, if you don't want to enter into the contracting out of green.
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Definitely not.
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In fact, I would just like to shape things 50, 50, babe.
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Is this a DM that we got on Instagram?
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Yes.
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This is a question.
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How does relationship property get assessed or split up?
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If your partner has all his assets in a trust and you have no prenup.
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What does the woman end up with if they split?
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So, trusts are a little bit tricky.
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Yeah.
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I feel like caves where you just hide all your stuff away.
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And so now I can't see it.
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Yeah.
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Traditionally, they were sort of thought of the castle with the most...
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Moat.
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...portress with the moat.
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And you can't get across the moat.
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But, luckily, you can start to get across the moat now.
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So, there's provisions.
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There's a version of these ones swapping out of some moat.
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I will.
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And now I'm going to pay some more to like get across.
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I'm coming through your hair and ribbons.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It's tricky.
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It's not straightforward and it's not straight 50, 50, 50.
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But there are provisions in the PRA that can start to break into trusts or get into trusts.
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Break into trusts.
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If you were wanting to keep your trust assets protected,
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you would get a contracting out agreement that said that your interest in that trust.
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Because once a property is owned by a trust, it's not actually your property anymore.
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It's the trust property.
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So, if you wanted to keep your interests, whether that be as a beneficiary or a settler or as a trustee,
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and that property as separate property, you'd get a contracting out agreement.
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But there is...
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It's trickier, but there are ways to get into those trusts or...
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Weasel.
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Yeah.
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Okay, good to know.
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Should I do one of my voice message questions?
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Yes.
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Because there's some really good ones.
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I'm quite excited.
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It's okay.
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So for the loves of voice number one?
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Yeah, I do.
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And you know what?
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There's probably about 10 people that have sent voice messages in.
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Which I'm just like, this is so cool.
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It feels like we're a proper radio show.
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My poll answer was no regarding having a prenup,
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because my partner and I have been together since our early 20s.
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So neither of us brought in any assets.
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But our prenup would be in cuts if I had to start again
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all later on as our assets grow.
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We actually do our finances pretty separately,
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while keeping common family interests in mind.
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I have a friend whose second engagement ended
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because the guy refused to get on board with a prenup.
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She took it as a huge red flag
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that he wouldn't let her protect her assets
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that she had worked really hard for.
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And now she's quite happy that the relationship broke down.
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Oh yeah, I'm sorry.
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I should have given it.
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Yeah, I think there's a huge red flag.
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It's the same.
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I didn't get on board.
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If so,
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I at least have a conversation about it.
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Yeah.
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And if they say no, red flags everywhere.
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Yeah, I'm getting hit in all directions by flags.
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Yeah, pretty horrendous.
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I think what that person raised is really true.
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Like not everyone needs to have a prenup.
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It's not sort of like everyone should have one.
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The way the law works is it's meant to value all contributions
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to a relationship is equal.
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So financial and non-financial.
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And when you have started out younger,
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yes, you might have put $5,000 more into the house.
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But you might do all the cleaning every week.
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So you shouldn't be penalised for that.
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So you do kind of grow your assets together as you go.
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And really commonly, they are second relationships
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or later in life or, you know, when you have
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bit things up yourself.
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And because Kiwis over is part of.
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And so it's the increase to your Kiwis over
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or further contribution.
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So say if you had $20,000 in your Kiwis over now
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and then you get into a relationship
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and when you separate, it's worth $100,000.
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It'd be that $80,000 gain, increase.
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That would be divided 50-50.
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Got you.
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So save heaps while you're single and to your Kiwis over.
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Okay, I'm going to do one more.
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Going through the contracting out agreement was just really hard.
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I didn't know anyone who had done one before
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and I was advised to do it by my accountant.
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So I did.
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And it was a really hard process.
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It brought up a lot of money shift for both me and my partner.
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I was trying to approach it in a relaxed way.
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But he took it really personally.
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And I took that personally too.
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Even though I could understand why he was taking it personally.
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It took us ages to get it signed to actually get to the point
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where we were on the same page about it.
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I'm so glad that you guys are opening up the conversation about it
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because it is necessary.
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Even if it does bring up those hard conversations.
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I mean, those are conversations that we need to be having anyway.
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Wow, so true.
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It's like, yes, it's going to be a tough conversation.
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It's probably not going to be the last of the tough conversations
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you're going to have.
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So you may as well have it early on and get through it
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and realise that you're going to be in a stronger position.
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Yeah.
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I was talking to someone else on Instagram
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who had gotten touched with us and said the same kind of thing.
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They were just like, I can't expect to have to have conversations
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about what happens to our assets if we die.
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Or if you die, where did they go?
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You know, it's just hypotheticals that you would never have
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at the dinner table or on a date.
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Or you might not have even thought about before.
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And I thought that was kind of interesting too.
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It's more just preparing yourself
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and your partner going into those conversations
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they're actually not that easy.
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And it's also normal for it to not be that easy.
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Yeah.
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That's tricky and sticky conversations.
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But also, it's way easier to have those conversations
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when you like each other.
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Yeah.
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Or hopefully love each other.
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And then when you don't.
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So true.
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It's a bit of a long one, but be with me.
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My partner and I have been together for coming up two and a half years.
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I owned a house before we were together and rented it out
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and moved into his house.
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He got it with his job.
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And I paid him rent.
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He has never lived in my house and never done any maintenance
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or paid anything towards a single bill for it.
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I've kept it very separate.
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If things were to go south, would he still have the right
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to a portion of my house?
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Thanks.
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And really love what you guys are doing.
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So how the family home works,
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and that gets shared 50-50 is the home you live in as a family.
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So I would say she would be in a pretty good position
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with her property being a rental property.
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It's kept separate.
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Where there may be some risk is if she's using her income
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to top up the mortgage repayments or anything
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because income is a relationship asset
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and its relationship property.
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So she might want to give a lawyer a call
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and just see if there's anything further.
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Currently, two and a half years,
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she's probably still in a safe zone,
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but also good to start having these conversations.
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If she thinks what she just wants some security to know
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that, hey, my rental property or my property will be mine.
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And you can have a contracting out agreement
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that just protects that property.
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And says, yeah, I want to share everything else
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but I just want to keep that little nest egg for me.
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Yeah, interesting.
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How much does a prenut cost?
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You normally will pay a lawyer's hourly rate.
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And it sort of depends how straightforward they are
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and to be honest,
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depends how much on the same page you're in your partner are
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because they become expensive when there is long negotiations
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or regulation arguing.
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Yeah, when you get the agreement and you're like,
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hey, this says all of these things
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that I don't think you realise it says
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and then you kind of have to redraft it and do that.
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But a couple of times.
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A couple of times?
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Yeah, okay.
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Yeah, that would be a good bullpark,
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but don't...
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Yeah.
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No, it should be able to be a bullpark.
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Because I just one of my misconceptions was that
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hey, I don't have enough assets to make it worthwhile
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but I think even if you've got $10,000 or $1,000
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if you're paying a couple of thousand to keep it safe,
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it kind of makes it worthwhile.
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Yeah.
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So it's...
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It was like an assurance policy.
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Yeah, you don't have to be wealthy,
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never prenut.
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No, I think there's a big misconception
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that it's just wealthy people or wealthy families
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who make their children grow much,
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which is a point because my assets aren't enough for you.
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Yeah, I mean, look, if your assets were closer
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and value like feels only $10,000,
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yeah, you probably wouldn't say.
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Not worth it, yeah.
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Not worth it.
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But if that's really important to you
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because you're like,
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if you know you've worked really, really hard
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and you've made conscious choices,
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yeah, sacrifices and that feels important to you,
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then it is like an insurance policy of saying,
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hey, my $10,000 is mine.
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I think the thought of bringing it up
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can be quite awkward for people and feel scary.
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But often there'll be an event that precipitates that
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like you're buying a house together
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or you're about to move in together.
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Yeah.
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So you're kind of having these more serious conversations
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and you just slide it in.
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I moved in with my boyfriend about six months
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after we started dating.
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I was moving in with him and his brother
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who had recently bought a house together.
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Such a major thing in life,
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like such a great achievement given current situations.
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So that was very cool for them.
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On top of that, they have a lot of high-priced assets
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that they've worked really hard to get over the years
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and they've got this lifestyle that they love,
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you know, the house and the toys
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and they've worked really hard for that.
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Whereas I guess I haven't necessarily saved.
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I've travelled a lot.
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I ate out a lot, I socialised
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and I have been so happy doing that in my 20s.
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I've loved it.
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But when I moved in, I guess
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it was almost like this elephant in the room
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and someone like mentioned a prenup
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and asked if that asked me to sign a prenup,
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which they had in at the stage.
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I guess it got the cogs taking in my brain
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where I was at.
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I wonder if this is something they want.
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So I started doing some research.
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They looked at myself, my situation,
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you know, their situation.
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And after a few weeks,
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I thought, you know what,
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I'm going to have a discussion with him about it.
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And I bought it up
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and I just feel like I could see
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this wave of relief over his face.
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I guess it broke down that barrier,
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you know, we'd only been together for six months.
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It's quite a big discussion to have so early on.
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So from that perspective,
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it was so healthy to talk about that.
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When I thought about it and spoke to him about it,
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I said, and I will continue to say,
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I've worked hard and I've spent my money
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where I want to spend it,
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and you've worked hard and you've spent your money
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where you want to spend it.
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And just because we've been together for a certain amount of time
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doesn't make me entitled to what you've worked really hard for.
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When I spoke about this to my friends
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and discuss it with them,
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they were just in, I guess, like,
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at a shock and just almost like mortified
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that I would have even offered them
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and put myself in that situation.
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I would love to hear,
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I guess, some feedback from you guys
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or just like, open up a discussion around
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am I not silly for offering it, but like...
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I'll start with that because there was a few more.
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But like, I thought that was so interesting.
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Yeah, so selfless.
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Yeah.
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How cool.
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I don't know, I don't know.
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No, I know.
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I was like, oh, yeah, just shush.
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Yeah, just shush.
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But amazing that she could see.
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Like, yeah.
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I reckon that would have done wonders
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for that relationship as well.
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Yeah, totally agree.
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And that's a really good example of knowing
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that the conversation needs to be had
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and possibly the boyfriend should have bought that up,
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but being too awkward and saying,
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I know we need to have this conversation
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and really good on her.
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Honestly, I don't know if I would have done that.
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I think it's really cool.
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I do just say, I hope she got some good legal advice
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that she hasn't signed something
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that the risk sometimes can be is that
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everything that someone gets put into their separate property
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and so that includes things like their income
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and where that can become really unfair
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as you get 10, 15 years down the track
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and if you've had time as the woman traditionally,
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not meaning to be sexist, but it may be is.
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Yeah.
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Time out of the workforce.
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And there are circumstances have moved on
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hugely from being a house that he owned with his brother,
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but everything is his separate property
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and she leaves a relationship with nothing.
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That would be something to be cautious of
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and it is something to be cautious of.
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And that's why getting independent legal advice is so important.
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Good on her for bringing it up
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but just make sure that it's not something
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that could one day become really unfair to her
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as their life goes on.
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So I've actually got a friend recently
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who is in a similar situation where she's engaged
17:45
and they've signed a contract agreement
17:48
based on the fact that he bought a home before they...
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Actually, he bought it while they were together
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which is a whole not the conversation.
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But the point is that the contracting out agreement
17:58
is February thing.
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So if he buys another property for Kiwi,
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it's basically saying that what you own
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is completely your own is completely mine.
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And a lot of the questions that have come
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through are similar where it's like,
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okay, but what happens if you have kids
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or because most of the time I think it's generally
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the things that you come to a relationship with,
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most people would agree they should be able to keep those things.
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But what happens when circumstances change
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and then how does that reflect in terms of
18:26
a prenup or contracting out agreement?
18:28
Yeah, so if you don't have one,
18:30
she had 50-50.
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And if you do,
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and normally this is what I talk about
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with my client in the independent legal advice
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or before we're even at the point of signing it,
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I would have hoped I would have said,
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hey, you shouldn't do this or like,
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you know, this clause means this.
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Sometimes people will include a review clause
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which says,
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we'll review this agreement
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and you might have trigger events
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like five years, marriage.
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Yeah, probably birth of a child.
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Yeah, rather than just getting yourself knocked up.
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Another alternative is to have what we call a sunset clause.
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So it would say that upon a trigger event,
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this agreement is no longer enforced.
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So if we're together for five years,
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ten years married,
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you know, what if it's appropriate to your circumstances
19:15
or I know I was once advising a friend
19:19
on her contracting algorithm,
19:21
they actually didn't end up signing it,
19:23
but she, similar to the memo before,
19:26
said that having the conversations
19:28
was really interesting for them.
19:30
But for her, it was really, really important
19:32
that they had a sunset clause
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and she was like, I'm not signing it without the Senate
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and it will be about either of us,
19:38
either we get married
19:40
or when we have a child
19:41
because that's when things will start
19:43
or could start to become unfair
19:45
because I will be the one who takes time off work.
19:47
And that's where I don't want the imbalance to come.
19:50
And so it's all part of the negotiation,
19:52
you know, you don't have to sign the thing
19:54
that you're presented with.
19:56
So a review means that you just review it.
19:58
A sunset clause means it's effectively void.
20:01
Yeah.
20:02
At whatever the truth is.
20:03
Because I have heard that like,
20:04
oh, but they've got kids now,
20:05
so the prenups void.
20:06
You know, like I have heard situations like that.
20:09
So at least the agreement provides for it.
20:11
That doesn't mean anything.
20:12
So like, I asked my mum the other day,
20:14
I was like, did you,
20:15
what happened with your contracting?
20:16
Like, should they have been married for quite a long time now?
20:19
And circumstances have massively changed.
20:21
And I was like, oh, you know, what happened?
20:23
And they're like, oh, I don't think it's in place anymore.
20:25
Like, you know, no, no.
20:26
And then I was like, well, can I look at it?
20:28
And I looked at it the other day.
20:29
And I was like, it's still in force.
20:31
You actually need to go and say that this is no longer in place
20:34
because I was like, I'm sure it wouldn't come up.
20:37
But it could cause an issue if one of you died.
20:40
Okay, I'm going to play another voice message
20:42
because there's a few more really good ones.
20:44
Okay, this is a great one.
20:45
So this is in regards to if someone lives internationally,
20:49
what actually stands?
20:50
So I'm just going to play this message.
20:53
So my partner and I have been together for over four years
20:56
and he lives in Germany and I live in New Zealand.
20:59
So we haven't felt the need to get a prenup just yet.
21:02
But we have talked about it a lot.
21:04
And he's actually brought it up as an idea
21:07
for around the time that we get married.
21:10
I own two properties in New Zealand
21:13
and he is currently looking to buy his first in back in Germany
21:18
and we've both got a sheer portfolio in each country.
21:22
Which is really cool, but also a little bit complicated
21:27
I suppose, living in two different countries.
21:29
I'm happy to share, you know, when we get married, most things.
21:33
But there's one thing in particular which he's aware of
21:37
and we've talked about lots for me to keep as mine solely
21:42
and that's the little house I own in my hometown.
21:46
It's really important to me because my mum was actually left
21:49
on her own pregnant with me just months before I was born
21:54
and ended up moving back in with my grandparents
21:58
for the early stages of my childhood.
22:01
So that's always been with me and I suppose having something
22:05
or a home to go through that's safe and really close to my family
22:10
is really comforting.
22:13
So anyway, you kind of get the idea.
22:15
She was basically saying, I'm really happy to share when we're married.
22:18
That's fine with me.
22:20
But I want to have that house in a clause
22:24
in a contracting out agreement that means that no matter what happens,
22:28
that is always my safe zone.
22:30
That's my backstop that's for me only.
22:33
And I think that's, I thought that was quite a beautiful story actually.
22:37
And it also demonstrates that our views on these things
22:40
are so coloured by our own experience
22:42
and how that's important to her and totally respects that
22:46
and that they're having these conversations.
22:49
So the New Zealand court has jurisdiction over what we call
22:53
a movable property and only in New Zealand.
22:56
So that's like your house because you can't move it
22:58
but it has jurisdiction over movable property
23:01
so it could make decisions about the German and New Zealand share portfolios.
23:06
I have no idea what the law in Germany is about these things.
23:09
So I've watched.
23:11
So if you have a house in Germany
23:16
or a house in the US or anywhere, that's movable.
23:19
So some people will choose to put,
23:21
I've done contracting out agreements for quite high net worth individuals
23:25
where they have property everywhere.
23:27
Sometimes have a clause in that agreement that says
23:30
what court you want to defer to if there's any dispute.
23:33
So you would normally get advice from lawyers in both places
23:36
and you would argue about what was more beneficial to you.
23:40
So you might say New Zealand court to determine on this issue
23:45
because it would be better for you.
23:47
I loved that.
23:48
Can I go?
23:49
Yeah, you'll turn it back.
23:50
Not sure if this applies but a family member's ex tried to take her business,
23:54
and everything from her is the ex was an asshole.
23:56
Are you smiling?
23:57
This is so weird.
23:58
She's like trying to make a difference.
24:01
She's like, oh my Jesus, I love how she's like in capital's asshole.
24:05
That's what I'm loving it.
24:07
Although he cheated.
24:08
But thank God she had her money business house,
24:11
everything in a trust that he didn't know about.
24:13
I know it's not the same as a prenup
24:15
but sometimes having a security for,
24:17
if there are such an ends, can be crucial.
24:19
One question I want to know about this is
24:21
if they cheat or like infidelity, doesn't matter.
24:24
Don't leave shit.
24:25
Oh wow.
24:26
I just thought that.
24:27
They can be a cheater and he can leave your ass
24:29
and when he leaves your ass he can take half.
24:31
Oh my God, there's another Kanye song.
24:33
When he leaves your ass, he's gonna leave his 18 years.
24:36
18 years.
24:37
18 years.
24:38
18 years for a date found out wasn't his.
24:40
Okay, okay.
24:41
Do you need me to play it?
24:43
Yeah.
24:44
There's no, it doesn't matter how the breakdown of the relationship occurs.
24:49
So with a prenup or when you split it 50-50,
24:53
do you have to disclose what assets you had?
24:55
Yeah.
24:56
Because you could hide like so many people
24:58
like, no, nobody got this one house
24:59
and then it's like you've got six others.
25:01
Yeah, so that's a really big hiding something from me.
25:04
Six other businesses?
25:05
Where are the other houses?
25:07
That's a really important part of the kind of drafting
25:10
of the contracting out agreement and advising
25:14
is that you ask for disclosure about assets
25:18
and information and normally there's a clause in there
25:21
that says if something's found that it's not being disclosed.
25:24
The agreement doesn't apply or it won't apply to that.
25:27
So if you had your house and just said,
25:29
I didn't have this, I mean in New Zealand
25:31
you can also search the Lins
25:33
and so I could search for Keras and be like,
25:36
oh well you've got 12 properties.
25:38
So you've only disclosed one that.
25:41
So this one is a question about a post,
25:44
like it's like a post prenup.
25:46
I think the question is around whether you're married
25:49
and you haven't put anything in place.
25:51
Hi, Dean.
25:52
First of all, I just want to say how much I love your channel
25:55
and I love how you are bringing topics
25:57
to the table that are super relevant
26:00
and you give us the opportunity to engage back with you.
26:04
And my question for today is,
26:07
instead of a prenup, do we have a post-knop?
26:11
I don't even know if that's an actual word,
26:14
but in my case I've been married for several years
26:17
and we have bought our house together
26:20
and only recently my sister and I were gifted a family home
26:25
and that made me wonder what agreement
26:28
do we have in place for couples after the fact
26:32
to after being married, after joining their own in a house.
26:35
So do we have something in place like that?
26:38
Thank you.
26:39
A contracting out agreement can be put in place at any time
26:42
so it doesn't have to be just before you get married,
26:46
like the term bring up or you don't have to have a different agreement
26:49
for a post-knop, you can do them at any time.
26:52
So I would suggest she gets some legal advice about whether
26:55
that is necessary for her.
26:58
Cool, that's awesome.
26:59
Okay, so this is an interesting one
27:01
and I think it's kind of similar to what we just spoke about,
27:04
like in terms of at any point of your relationship
27:07
it could be really helpful to have one in place.
27:11
Kia ora, the curve.
27:13
I love following your podcast and Instagram.
27:15
Thank you so much for your cordied or around.
27:18
Bring up, I'm really interested to understand
27:20
what the benefit might be in the situation of
27:24
if you've been with your partner for over 15 years
27:27
since you were 20 and that you both came into the relationship
27:31
I said, free, you know, have two children
27:34
have brought a house together.
27:36
I'm wondering if it's beneficial to get a
27:38
prenup in this situation.
27:40
The only thing that we have separately is that
27:43
I have she as he's under my name,
27:45
however it is family money,
27:48
so I consider it to be a retirement fund for both of us.
27:51
I'm really interested to hear back from you,
27:53
so thank you so much.
27:54
We'll pay her later too for that stunning opening
27:57
to that voice message.
27:59
So there would be no need to get a prenup
28:01
and just for everyone's knowledge
28:05
that even having share accounts or bank accounts
28:08
in your own name,
28:10
if they've been funded from income you've earned
28:13
during the relationship,
28:14
it's relationship property, it doesn't matter.
28:16
What about inheritance?
28:17
In inheritance is different.
28:18
It sits outside, that is separate property,
28:20
but we are if you intermingled it,
28:22
so you used it to pay off.
28:24
It's a mingle, hilarious.
28:26
It's our funds are passing each other.
28:29
But if you did hook up your funds to pay,
28:32
you all get it.
28:33
If you had promiscuous funds,
28:35
or you put those into like a collective kind
28:40
or paid the mortgage of the family home,
28:42
do you can't then say,
28:44
oh I want that back.
28:45
So basically if you've been together
28:47
from the point of when you didn't have very many assets
28:50
and you've both together,
28:52
someone's maybe taking time off to have kids,
28:54
even if you haven't,
28:55
if you've both been working throughout that time,
28:57
you've both been adding to the assets,
28:58
and if you feel like it's free,
29:00
if you feel like it's fair,
29:02
that those are split between you,
29:04
then there's not a point in putting a contracting
29:07
on a agreement.
29:08
However, if you have something like,
29:10
I don't know, you inherited a million dollars
29:12
from your late grandfather,
29:14
and you really want that to remain as yours,
29:16
then you would need to get a contracting on a agreement.
29:18
But otherwise not necessary?
29:20
Yeah, yeah, that's a good high level.
29:22
Always if you have questions,
29:24
you've got to say, yeah, say a lawyer.
29:27
Community law might be a good first stop
29:29
because I know people think,
29:30
oh, we're going to a lawyer's scary money.
29:31
And also, which lawyer do I go to?
29:32
Which lawyer do I go to?
29:33
Someone who does either fam
29:36
let we'll call ourselves family lawyers,
29:38
or they'll say they do relationship property.
29:40
Not like contract law?
29:42
No, no.
29:43
You want someone who does this area?
29:46
I mean, other lawyers sometimes do do it.
29:48
Criminal lawyer.
29:49
Yeah, nah.
29:50
They wouldn't know.
29:51
You know, we're talking before about how much is it cost
29:53
and like, goping, thinking it will cost a lot of money.
29:55
Will you spend money insurance?
29:57
Oh, we never have an insurance because I don't think I'm like,
29:59
I think, hey, if I.
30:00
But if you need it, you've been like,
30:02
oh, thank God, we get this.
30:03
Thank goodness.
30:04
And it does make it easier.
30:05
I've had people who we, I've acted for that,
30:08
we've put contracting out agreements
30:10
and then they've separated and it just went,
30:12
okay, well, this says, did it, did it, did it, did it.
30:14
And it's how it should be.
30:15
Yeah.
30:16
How many times have you seen relationships go so hard?
30:19
Like, I mean, how many,
30:20
and as keep a sense of divorces,
30:22
50% of marriage was then divorced.
30:24
God, it's truly.
30:25
But then if you think about that,
30:27
and then you times it by those who are also technically defective.
30:30
Or not in marriages.
30:31
Yeah, they're break up.
30:32
I mean, and it's not just how pessimistic,
30:34
it's more just being realistic and not being.
30:36
That's two single girls having like,
30:38
yeah, we're in love.
30:39
We're like, no, no, we don't go together.
30:41
And I'm like, I love him so much.
30:44
I don't have a contracting advocate in that world.
30:46
No, but you also do one of those situations.
30:49
Oh, my gosh.
30:50
We don't have a contracting out agreement at all.
30:53
So the default, so 350?
30:55
Yep. So if we separate,
30:57
I'll take the baby, he can have the care.
30:59
And that is the reason you did that
31:01
because you were together from a really young age
31:03
and you didn't have assets at the time.
31:05
Yeah, we had been to your distance in our 20s,
31:07
which actually did put more into our house than I did.
31:10
And we talked about it,
31:12
and then kind of just never really did anything about it.
31:14
There was actually a message that came in that said,
31:16
you know, we thought about it.
31:18
Have you got that message?
31:19
Yeah.
31:20
Do you want to read it out?
31:21
Yeah, I have a question for you.
31:22
I'm going to read it in a certain way.
31:24
That's a nice one.
31:25
It kind of relates to what you just said.
31:27
My father passed just after me,
31:29
and now my now husband got together.
31:31
We bought a house using my inheritance as a deposit.
31:34
We talked about a pre-nut before the house was bought.
31:36
I got it written up, but we never signed it.
31:38
My partner was insulted that I'd ever think
31:40
had take money from me.
31:41
However circumstances have changed.
31:43
I've had a daughter.
31:44
I work part-time in my husband now,
31:46
and three times more than me.
31:47
So it's all come out in the wash.
31:48
Yeah.
31:49
Yeah.
31:50
she took him for half and she hasn't been working and it's like oh gosh like get up with the play
31:55
it's like you don't have to be in a full-time employed job to be contributing your contribution to
32:03
the welfare family. That's the whole reason why it's what it is because there would be women who
32:07
continue against and stayed at home and so the marriage remained and then there was nothing you know
32:14
they didn't have $50,000 in the bank account and so it's meant to value financial and non-financial
32:21
contributions and it's equal. Oh I've got one more question that I would like to play.
32:26
And ladies basically my situation is that I'm in a defective relationship and I have two children
32:34
with my partner. Prior to us getting into relationship my partner had assets and I'm totally fine
32:42
with prenups or relationship agreements. The question for me is now that we are in a relationship
32:50
and I'm looking to add value to his assets for example renovating a house that he owns.
32:59
How does that work coming? How do I now benefit from that so to speak?
33:06
So I'm not sure if they have a contracting out agreement currently. I don't think they do.
33:11
So if they don't have one place she's entitled to $50,000 in the house. So it would be fine to put
33:18
money in if you were trying to improve the quality of the house it would be. Where that can come
33:23
in stuck up its their separate property but there are revisions or mechanisms to recover from that
33:30
but if they had a contracting out agreement in place that said his separate property was his normally
33:37
they will have clauses that say contributions to this don't give you any entitlement to that property
33:42
so you'd want to get that changed or don't do it. Like I've talked to clients before about
33:48
you know when they have those clauses if he buys a batch from Waheki don't take six months off to
33:53
go and paint it because you're not going to get anything back from it.
33:57
It's gorgeous. People like but I was in my overalls painting for months. Yeah but no don't do it.
34:03
Okay because there's often clauses that if you contribute to separate property that doesn't give
34:10
you an entitlement to that separate property but if there's no agreement in place the law just prevails
34:15
but give the lawyer a call and give them specifics about your situation and they can probably give
34:20
you a little bit of advice. I'm not sure if this is a question so I'm just going to play it.
34:25
My partner and I of eight years have a property relationship agreement. These types of agreements
34:31
are great because they're super flexible you can tailor them to your exact personal situation
34:36
you can add in and take out whatever you want you can also review them at any point of time
34:41
as your situation. Like share the answer. Yeah, share the answer. But I don't like both of
34:45
that if and when we have hard times in our relationship that we can focus on each other rather than
34:51
worrying or focusing on what happens to our financial assets if our relationship does end.
34:57
I think that's super interesting and a really good point. It's really like a living document.
35:01
She is. It's alive. It's planted in the back. I think she is nailing it. I want to finish
35:08
on one which I thought was a really lovely message and something that I just thought you know what
35:12
this is gorgeous. She actually sent a photo. This is a story about her parents and then she sent
35:17
a photo of them holding hands walking together still and she I was just like this is relationship
35:23
goals. So this is my parent situation. They've been married for 40 years. They're still married
35:30
but they signed a print up before they got married that they would take with them anything
35:36
they bought to the marriage if it didn't work out. Anything that they've acquired during the
35:40
marriage that's 50-50. So they really believed it was a partnership and they always talked about
35:45
marriage as a partnership. We then had and then when we were younger we went to boarding school so they
35:51
could both achieve in their careers and we were living quite rarely as well. It's absolutely a
35:59
partnership and it's important to have these conversations with the person you love and it's
36:04
a foundation for your future. And then look at this bloody adorable photo of them.
36:09
Isn't that just the cutest thing you've ever seen and I thought that is awesome. And on that note
36:15
what a good way to wrap up. Yeah. Yeah and that's a really good way to think about contracting
36:19
out agreement and how long. 40 years into marriage. That's my whole life being with one person more
36:28
than one. One day or so. No but thank you so much Lauren. Thank you. There's so many questions
36:37
and I think that that's really probably cleared a lot out because I'd say quite a few of the
36:40
questions are similar. If you're unsure get legal advice to echo some of the sentiments from
36:46
the the callers. Yeah we'll call them callers because it's like a live break. You guys do
36:51
such an amazing job and love you work so it's a real oh my god I'm gonna sound like a boomer.
36:56
A real buzz to be a part of it. And we'll pay you later too. Thank you so much for joining us
37:04
for today's episode of Raising the Curve. Please subscribe and leave a review on what ever platform
37:09
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37:18
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