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Transcript

READING ROOM JUNE 25 · The Reading Room

0:00
Speaker 1: Babe write.
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Speaker 2: Read Hello and welcome to this month's reading room. So
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I'm here Christa with Barry. Hello, and we have Sue.
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Speaker 1: Hello. Hi.
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Speaker 2: So we're here to discuss last month's book, which was
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Death Comes to Pemberley by P. D. James. Right, So
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who wants to go first? Barry, you can go first.
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Let's do it and then we'll come on to you. Sue. See,
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what do you think?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I am. I suppose we're to start. Really
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I read this book. Well, the thing was I read
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the book, isn't it isn't the source of book which
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I'd normally read. So I mean, which isn't you know,
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no big deal. But I did think that, yeah, it's
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not the sort of book that would normally read. And
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I found it fairly puzzling, to be honest, the first
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time I read it, because I felt that the characters.
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I didn't know the characters and they weren't developed very
1:15
well for me, which sent me back to read Pride
1:19
and Prejudice, which was what I was dreading in the
1:22
first instance. But I went and I enjoyed Pride and
1:27
Prejudice immensely, and so I was delighted to go down
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that particular rabbit hole, and I went back to Death
1:34
in Pemberley, and then I read it again, and I
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really don't think personally that it stands up very well
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when compared to Pride and Prejudice. So that may be
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a fairly obvious statement to make, but I found that
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I would much rather have been sitting here talking about
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Pride and Prejudice than Death Comes to Pemberley.
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Speaker 2: Well, very interesting, yes, well, actually I just put some
1:56
context into this. So P. D. James. She wrote the
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novel in twenty eleven as a kind of sequel, wasn't
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it kind of to Pride and Prejudice? And she wrote
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it in kind of like old English or moist how
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they talked in the Victorians almost almost almost, that's true, yes,
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And it was full of characters and it was kind
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of one of the first murder mysteries or something. Maybe
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I'm not sure. But anyway, back to you, Sue, you
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were the one that chose this book. What was your
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what's your opinion?
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Speaker 1: My opinion was that I think it was published in
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twenty eleven. I don't think he is to see how
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super mystery writere P. D. James, The Creative Inspector Adam
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Daglish would use her skills to marry the work of
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Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, because it's two different tiers
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of time from the writer's point of view. One is,
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you know, hundreds of years before the other one. It's
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two different genres because really Jane Austen is a is
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not a murder mystery where this is, and two distinct settings.
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But I thought she she would never equal Joe, Notustine.
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I agree with Barry on that, but I thought she
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continued in the stare and observations of Jane Austin. So
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it's a long time since I've Readified and Prejudice, and
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I do sympathize with Barry here because I did wonder
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how easy, despite the prologue, it would be to follow
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the characters and the plot without read having read the
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first book. Well, fortunately for me, I've been to see
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a show called Pride and Prejudice sort of a New
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Brain theater, and it brought the characters back to life
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in my mind. And I think as well, I was
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fortunate to do persuasion for a level, and I just
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adore to Jane after craft observations and witticisms which I
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think PD James carried on within the book.
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Speaker 2: Interesting because I've actually have not read Pride and Prejudice.
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I have seen the film and I loved the film,
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but I found the novel personally very very difficult to
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get into. I'm like Barry. I found the characters were
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not too confusing. There was too many characters for me,
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and I got really confused with it. All I did
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watch I read it, and then read half of it again,
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and it got a bit more clear. But then there
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was a series that was from the BBC, excuse me,
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which I managed to get online, and I watched the
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series and I really enjoyed the series and I understood
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it a bit more. But I also found the plot
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was a little bit kind of unlikely, you know, the end.
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The ending was a bit like a really did that
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really happen? So I think, to be honest, I've read
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probably too many historical novels. I need to move on
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to some more modernly or Barry's laughing, I think he's thinking,
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thank goodness, Barry, carry on then anymore.
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Speaker 3: Well, the thing is is this, I mean, because we
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have done quite a few historical novels and my criticism
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each time has always been that the female characters are
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never developed properly. They're always some sort of subservient type
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of person. And I realized that that may be what
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the times were. But then again, that's where I don't
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see what the appeal is for people. You know, I
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don't watch Downton and those sorts of things. Those sorts
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of things really don't appeal to me, and I know
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that they do it to lots of people, but it's
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that whole sort of class thing where there's like people
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upstairs and people downstairs. You know, I've never wanted servants.
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You know, that's not a world that I would so
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in normal circumstances, I wouldn't read books of that nature.
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Now that said, you know, and I felt very much
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you know, you know, maybe going against the stream with
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a lot of people, but I felt very much that
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way about Wuthering Heights, which everybody seems to love, you know.
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But I did find with Pride and Prejudice that the
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character of Elizabeth Bennett was absolutely a terrific, well developed,
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rounded character with who had plenty of self analysis and
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was able to change her views depending on how the
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information came to her, and I found that she was
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an absolutely outstanding character. And so then to go to
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death in Pemberley, where it takes the prominant character is
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Darcy himself, I found really disappointing because once again the
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Elizabeth Bennett character became a very secondary character and just
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like a bystander if you like, to everything that was
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going on, and that really did disappoint me. You know,
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I thought we were onto something with the Elizabeth Bennett character,
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and you know, probably controversially as well. I started watching
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the film with Kira Knightley, and I found that she
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just was not right for me. I only watched it
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for twenty minutes and to turn it off.
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Speaker 2: So you've made me want to read Pride and Prejudice.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's funny very should say that because the
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show Pride and Prejudice sort off, was the story told
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from the servants point of view. So they turn it
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on its head and you saw the romance between Elizabeth
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Bennett and Darcy through the servants, which was very interesting.
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I mean it was it was okay, but I think
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I was lucky in being able to see it just
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before I started reading the book. I thought within the
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book there was a lot of reveals sort of imagined
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reveals about the original characters. I found it interesting the
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way that it came across that it might not just
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have been peerer love for Elizabeth to marry Dancer, for example,
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And I think that P. D. James imagined and developed
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an into warf different aspects of those character into the book.
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And I think also she brought you other characters like
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the bid Wells, and perhaps the Spotlight moved more on
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those at the end of it. I did like some
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of the sage comments, such as on page five when
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she says that if this was fiction and she extended
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the narrative to include other characters brought as you said, Christ,
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that could be too many character. Yeah, good people to
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take in.
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Speaker 2: And they had all posh names and everything too, and
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double barrel names, and I got really confused with all that.
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And even the sun was called.
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Speaker 3: Was called fitz William as well as the other guy
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was called Fitzwilliam, which is a fairly fundamental rookie era.
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To me, that was like, yeah, yeah, no, I you know,
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I I agree with with that, but I do think
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that the actual I mean, you know, I'm not I'm
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not immune to who done it. You know, and you know,
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I enjoy you know, Puaro and and you know, all
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of the cop series, you know, but but I prefer
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the source of earthier type like you know, maybe I
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in ranking, you know, particularly the Henning Mankel, the Swedish
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author who I'm very fond of. And I found with this,
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you know, when I because I bought the book and
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it came and it had, you know, as they do
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things on it saying you know, this is a great
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read and things like that, you know, and one of
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them which had on the front was the Murder Mystery
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Queen and the Sun, you know, and so initially that
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puts me off, you know, I mean, not just because
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I'm from Liveropol, but because you know, it's like how
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you decide what to read from people. You know, you
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don't judge a book by cover, but certainly, you know,
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it depends. It's like a reviewer, you know, it depends
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who's reviewing something. Whether you think, oh I'll have a
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go at that, you know, and the fact that the
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Evening Standard reviews it and the Sun reviews it or
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that's who the publicers choose to put on the book
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cover then sort of affects whether or not you'd read it,
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and I did find that, you know, P. D. James,
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I mean I didn't. I only researched this afterwards, you know,
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but I hadn't realized at the time, you know, that
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she was a conservative peer and what have you. And
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it sort of it felt, yes, you know, I mean
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I understood afterwards why I felt a little bit disconnected
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from it all. And you know, so that's I mean,
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it's a bit like, you know, I'm having the past
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read Jeffrey Archer, you know, but I wouldn't these days,
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if you know what I mean. So it's that type
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of thing. So there's a certain sort of non inverted snobbery,
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but there is a prejudice involved in it because you
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can't read everything, you know, and it's not the sort
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of thing I would have read initially, yes, and it's
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not the sort of thing I would go and search
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out again.
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Speaker 2: Well, I found it was interesting that it was so
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well received, wasn't it, you know, one of the best books,
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and she's one of the best authors. I've never heard
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of her, really, so I thought was interested. I am interested.
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I'm intrigued to read more of her, but I didn't
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think it was for me I don't understand why somebody
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would do that either. Get it's like going to get
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your own idea, get your own character's type of thing. Really,
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So what do you think?
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Speaker 1: Well, I felt the announcement of the murder that I
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could feel the hand I should, I said, brain of
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Adam dal Grish. Within the story as P. D. James
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went about sort of creating a murder and then cleverly
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solvinge with all the clues, putting your foot before us
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just as we just waiting for us to be found.
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And I do like her work. Adam dal Gris has
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been It's been done three times. The first one was
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played by Roy Marston, the second by Martin Shaw and
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the third by Bertie Cavelle. And they're well worth watching
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because they are very very well sought through. But they
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are of a time, you know she does. I mean,
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for example, dal Grisee is a poet and his wife
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was murdered because of his job. So there's there's a
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lot to her work. Why you would do something like this,
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christ is something I'm not quite sure. A challenge maybe
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because she did love Jane Austen love of work, so
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maybe maybe it's a challenge to do to do something
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like this. I know other authors sort of take it on.
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I know this isn't the case with them this book,
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because Jane Austen's copyright is long gone. But I know
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it's gone with the wind when the copyright, you know,
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Margaret Mitchell died and it went to her family for
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so many years, and when that was coming to an end,
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they knew that it would be absolutely saturated with imitations
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of Gone with the Wind. So what they did was
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they put a contract out for someone to write a
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sequel to stop that. So they took control of it.
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And you've got the to the deep set Gass of Sea.
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But I think it's Gene Reyes, which tells is the
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prequel to Janey.
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Speaker 2: That's interesting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the story of him and his first wife
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a plantation before they go home and before she goes
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mad and ends up in the attic. So that's a
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prequel to a classic novel. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Did you think of it? Did you read it?
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Speaker 1: I didn't read it. No, I didn't read it. I
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have mixed feelings because I thought a bit like Will
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will expel Janey. I like to think you understand what
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I mean, Yes, But I would like to read it.
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Now I would like to see what actually it is
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done with it and how it works and how that
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first character comes to life, and maybe understand more about
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the first wife.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, is interesting. Did any of you watch the episodes
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from the BBC?
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Speaker 1: No, No, I will do. We're going to We're going
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to watch it. But because I was reviewing this, didn't
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want to watch.
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Speaker 2: I know you are amazing, so you're good. I watch
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everything and try and get all the Yeah, everyone's advice
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and opinion. Did you not watch it either, Marry Now,
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I didn't know. I did enjoy that. I do like
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to watch things. And I thought the characters in the
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in the episodes were really really good, and there was
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some it just got me clearer, you know, who they were,
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who the characters were. And I think it's it's it's
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the mother, Elizabeth's mother that comes for the ball. Is
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that right?
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Speaker 1: Am? I?
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Speaker 2: Right? Is her mother? And two sisters because I was
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a bit confused.
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Speaker 3: Four sisters. There's five sisters all together.
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Speaker 2: But three of them Lydia is not invited. No, Lydia
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not invited, She's coming. It was it was really.
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Speaker 3: Confusing, characterized very well in the book, you know, And
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and again I think that's some of that background doesn't exist,
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you know. And it's also you know that the actual
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character is self Wickham who is being tried for the murder.
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He's developed very well in pride and prejudice, and you know,
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you just have to go along with him. And Death
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Comes to Pemberley. I mean, I think you know, Death
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Comes to Pembley has that sort of it's that sort
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of who done it for? You know, whichever you watch.
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I mean I do watch reruns of Midsummer Murders and
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things like that, you know, and it never ceases to
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amaze me. And all of these things, you know, even
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whether it's Lewis or Morse or whatever. You know, at
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the end of the day, the main protagonist still turn
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around and spill all the beans and tell you all
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of the things. And I think that that's really what
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happens in Death Comes to Pemberley as well. And it seemed,
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as you, I think you suggested, it seemed implausible. You know.
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It's the idea that without well I mean, with actually
16:49
giving the plot away or giving the new month away.
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You know, the guy gets a reprieve because someone else
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had confesses, you know, which is why you know, why
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on earth they would do that is beyond me anyway,
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seeing as they'd killed the wrong person anyway, So it
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was like, you.
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Speaker 2: Know, I know, but I'm going to be a plot
17:06
spoiler here. Yeah it was on his deathbed.
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Speaker 3: Yes, no it was, but I mean, this is the
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guy who was already on his deathbed who managed to
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murder the guy. So no, exactly, like you know, you know,
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how close to death was he?
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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, because I found it was like, that's
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just unbelievable, you know. In the end, I thought, that's
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kind of that's just a cop out. That's unbelievable, you know.
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Speaker 3: And also even the idea that you know, but just
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to go back a little bit on that, you know,
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when you when you talk about, you know, why would
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somebody do a sequel or even a prequel to a book?
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I mean, anybody who makes a film actually is developing
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the book, you know, because they develop in their own
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their own likeness, if you like. I mean, I am,
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I'm a big fan of Wind and the Willows by
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Kenneth Grahame, you know, and I have like a musical
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piece of music or theater piece based on that, you know,
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So and that's just a development because of the love
18:05
of the book, you know, and so the things and
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the songs that I would develop in there are based
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on the narrative within the book. I don't think that
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there's anything unusual necessarily about that, you know. I think
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that like every time, you know, look at something like
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The Great Gatsby, for instance, you know that the film's
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being made at least three times, you know, and every
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time they make it and they update it for you know,
18:32
for what they see the image being. You know, it's
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like these days, if you see somebody dressed in seventies outfits,
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you know, which they buy as seventies outfits, they don't
18:42
look anything like the seventies, did you know. It's like
18:46
a sort of a remembered version of it. You know.
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Speaker 2: Oh, you can't exacerbate.
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Speaker 3: And I think that's what people do with films. I
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think that's what people do with sequel books. I would
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have to say that not very many of them are
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very successful for me. I mean, I read a revisited
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Wind and the Willows, which was told from the from
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the perspective of the Weasels, and I found it was
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it was tedious.
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Speaker 2: You know. I just want to make a point actually,
19:14
that vintage clothes only look good on young people and
19:18
older people that look like you've had it for years. Yes, changed, yes,
19:23
I get that, But I get your point, Barry, Yes, Sue.
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What can you say, well, I think that.
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Speaker 1: To go back to Pemberley, that there was a lot
19:34
of good research within it because you had the reference
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to Spencer Perceville, who himself was then assassinated when he
19:45
was Prime Minister, our only British prime minister. And then
19:49
I did like the way she wove in characters from
19:53
another Jay Austin novel. On page one eight seven, she
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refers to a character call So to Elliott who's from
20:01
Persuasion and his daughter Anne, and Anne again is a
20:06
very she is an older version, a very strong character,
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and the peraps an older version of Elizabeth Bennett. Because
20:12
this was Jane Austen's fast book, I'll last completed book now,
20:18
that reminded me of Dikensian, where there were many characters.
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I don't know whether you saw it. It was on
20:24
television and it was brilliant Densian, and they brought in
20:32
characters from from virtually every Dickens novel to solve a
20:38
murder mystery. And for example, you had a young miss
20:41
Habersham and then you as well as solving the murder,
20:46
it examined why she never got married, what went wrong
20:50
on the marriage day. And it's absolutely it's brilliantly written,
20:55
and it did remind me a bit of them. And
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I also liked the humor, some of the humor that
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was in it's sort of one page one six seven
21:06
share the scene about protracted dying, which was, you know,
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I found very amusing, and it sort of it reminds
21:15
me a bit again of a scene in Persuasion where
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there's Louisa Musgrove was Captain Wentworth, and it's the scene
21:23
in Bath on the sorry and lane readers on the
21:26
cop and I felt there was little little places like
21:31
that were the spirit as Jane Austin was there.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'll just say a little bit about the
21:40
novel actually for the listeners. So it was the story
21:44
begins in October eighteen o three, six years after the
21:48
events in Pride and Prejudice which ended with the marriage
21:51
of Darcy and Elizabeth, So George Wickham and his friend
21:55
Captain Martin Denny with Wickham's young wife Lydia, who's actually
21:59
elizabeth sister arrived there. They arrived, they're going to the
22:04
Pemberley for a ball that they're not invited to, and
22:09
the horse drawn chase is stopped by Martin Deddy and
22:14
he gets out and Wickham follows him and then he's
22:17
found dead and there's two gunshots. So it's all kind
22:21
of intriguing and as it happens in the end, the
22:25
usual things that you know, they're explained. But like we've
22:28
just said before, was it possible for that all to happen?
22:32
And I think after that, after that bit, for me,
22:35
it got a bit boring. You know, there was there
22:37
was I know that they were people were talking about it.
22:38
And then the girl who had the baby, Louise is
22:40
it she had the baby and she didn't know it
22:42
was Wickham's. Was it Wickham's baby? I mean she she
22:46
thought he was George or something.
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Speaker 3: She yeah, he'd given her a false name, but he
22:51
was but it was his baby. I mean there were
22:54
like sorts of little sort of strange subplots. Yeah, there
22:57
was very which which they did bring in, like the
23:00
the woman is that missus Young who had had an
23:04
influence in pride and prejudice turns up and actually throws
23:10
herself under her carriage when he's found guilty.
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Speaker 2: Did she throw herself or was it an accident?
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Speaker 3: Well, I think that she. I think that she threw
23:18
herself under it. That was my interpretation of it.
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Speaker 2: Now, just a second barrister, who was she's I'm more
23:22
confused again. I know she died after the trial when
23:26
he's found guilty. You exactly was she?
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Speaker 3: Well? She she was like a friend of Wickham, who
23:32
was a fairly dissolute character anyway, But it turns out
23:36
I think that she was his half sister and so
23:42
and that was the sort of link. And he was
23:45
going to take the baby. They were going to buy
23:47
the baby up, really off off the servant girl and
23:52
and and young was going to bring the baby up.
23:56
But I mean again that was sort of a bit
23:59
more convoluted, and it should have been, and also fairly
24:02
unbelievable because the girl was became pregnant and went and
24:07
lived for like the last five months of the pregnancy
24:10
up with her with her sister, and then so that
24:14
the baby could be seen as being theirs and they
24:17
would bring them up the only problem being that it
24:20
was a boy child and in the in the in
24:22
the if she was brought or if he was brought
24:26
up by another family, he would be entitled to their wealth,
24:32
and so that was why there were there were issues
24:36
to do with that. But I mean, you know, those
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sort of details are the things that bore me rigid.
24:40
You know, it's that sort of because even in Pride
24:45
and prejudice, you know, the whole one of the one
24:48
of the biggest things about it is that because there's
24:50
five daughters and no son that they can't inherit.
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Speaker 2: The irritate doesn't.
24:56
Speaker 3: And I do find it's that sort of thing where
24:58
I think I'm supposed to be interested in this, you know,
25:00
I mean, it's like it doesn't happen. Although I did
25:03
find one of the things I did find, and if
25:05
anybody's looking to read Jane Austen, I found her really
25:08
actually witty and very clever writing.
25:11
Speaker 2: You know, you've got me. I'm gonna have to read it.
25:13
I'm so I'm so surprised, Barry.
25:14
Speaker 3: But that's yeah, amazing, because there was there's a bit
25:17
there where because the mother is a sort of a
25:20
like a farce character in it. She's like a properly
25:24
sort of you know, like a bit like Hyacinth Bouquet
25:28
or something, you know, she's that sort of character in it.
25:32
And she's constantly referring to a husband who's sort of
25:35
like a downtrodden man, you know, who just sort of
25:38
wants to sit in the library on his own. And
25:41
you can understand why to some extent, you know. And
25:44
she keeps on saying that, you know, this woman might
25:47
take over the family and then we'll be out on
25:49
our own, you know. And if you know, which of course,
25:51
presupposes that he's going to die, you know, first, and
25:55
that they'll all be after him. And I mean, in
25:57
pride and prejudice, says my idea. Do not give way
26:01
to such gloomy thoughts. Let us hope for better things.
26:04
Let us flatter ourselves that I may be the survivor,
26:07
which I just made me laugh out loud.
26:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've sold it to me. Absolutely. It's going to
26:12
be like my next read. After that, we do our
26:14
next month. So can you carry on?
26:18
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that that the observations and the dry
26:22
wits of Jane Austen is amazing. I mean, if very
26:26
enjoyed pride and prejudice and persuasion, all kinds of you know,
26:32
witticisms like that in it. We're sure that she never
26:35
lost us star and I think that it's difficult for
26:40
Enoughthor to try and emulate that genius. Yes, because that
26:48
is it's a it's a brave we see the foolish
26:51
or a brave thing to do. And I think she
26:54
acquitted herself well, I mean she will never and for
26:59
her it's a different as well. You know, she's a
27:02
twentieth century made a mystery writer who deals with crime,
27:09
I would say, you know, in the mid twentieth century,
27:13
so it's for her it's a foreign territory. So she's
27:17
kind of trying to adapt the novel in the style
27:20
of someone who lived through those times, which I think
27:24
is a difficult thing to do. I think it's a
27:26
brave thing to do, and I think it's an incredibly
27:28
difficult thing to do, let alone someone with Jane Austen's talent.
27:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
27:34
Speaker 1: Think.
27:34
Speaker 3: I think that's why. I think that's very true, actually, Sue.
27:36
I think that because it's a bit like in musical terms,
27:39
you know, it's that danger where people sort of advertise
27:43
themselves and you know, if you like Tom Waits and
27:46
you're like Bob Dylan, You're like this, you know, and
27:48
you think, I'm not quite sure about that, really, you know,
27:51
and often, you know, inevitably they fall short, and I
27:54
think that that's right. I know, something that's really just
27:57
done occur to me at the moment, which I think
27:59
you've made. And two which I think is very much
28:01
the case as well. It's like when you're looking at
28:04
the Dalgleish stories, and certainly when you look at that
28:07
as them, you know, televised and what have you, in
28:10
exactly the same way as looking at say Inspector Morse
28:14
or you know, even Jack Frost or or any of
28:17
those characters when they're televised. It's very notable, noticeable now
28:23
to particularly I think that they rely so much on
28:26
the landline telephones because they haven't got the mobile phones,
28:29
you know, and it makes such a massive difference in
28:31
communication terms, you know, and whether or not those I mean,
28:36
that's what dates them to some extent, you know, whether
28:39
or not they'd be the same in the modern day,
28:42
it's difficult to say, you know, because you know, with
28:44
the Internet and that you know, those sorts of things
28:47
very much in say like Inspector Morse, you get Lewis
28:49
who is like sort of oufa with computers, you know,
28:52
and can resolve these things quite quickly just by looking
28:56
at somebody's in the rubbish bin, if you like, recycled.
29:01
Whereas you know, you know, the way that technology has
29:04
moved on, those things just couldn't be done the same way.
29:08
I don't think, you know. And so it's very is
29:10
very much of its time. And Jane Austen's of her time,
29:13
and and and P. D. James, you know, was of
29:15
her time, and and you know that it's not going
29:18
to translate, I don't think necessarily.
29:20
Speaker 2: So have you ready read any more any other other
29:23
books by her?
29:26
Speaker 1: A long time ago? I did read one Adam Dela Galicius,
29:29
which I did, which I did enjoy because I like
29:32
her plotting. I do like her plotting.
29:36
Speaker 2: Was the writing very different?
29:38
Speaker 1: The writing was different? Oh, yes, yes it was. It was.
29:42
I say it was a non slang type of writing,
29:48
if you understand what I mean.
29:50
Speaker 2: No, I don't, actually what do you mean by that?
29:52
Speaker 1: I mean sort of some modern day novels will use
29:55
a lot of you know, like lol, you know that
30:01
kind of thing. It's very precise, very precise English within
30:07
the stay area in which she's dealing, and it does
30:11
change when say Daglish goes to a poorer part of
30:15
wherever the farmer's speech will change will change, the character's
30:20
speech will change. But it's completely different from this in
30:25
the sense that this is much slow paced and more
30:29
based on people who have a lot of time to
30:32
make a lot of observations because these people didn't have
30:36
to go to work, they weren't bringing families up apart
30:41
from the servants obviously on their own, they had Nanni's
30:46
you know, missus, such a body looks after the children.
30:49
So it's two different areas that she's writing about, and
30:53
two different classes because this class was very isolated apart
30:58
from the servants, who they only knew a little bit
31:01
were at dale glicious world. The modern world classes mixed more, really,
31:07
and I think that leads itself to different stones as right,
31:10
And so the writing s down is different. It's precise,
31:14
but it's a different style completely.
31:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's still love. I do still
31:20
love historical novels, and I did use I did like
31:24
the language, but I think I just need to move
31:26
on a bit. Really, I'm starting to talk like that.
31:29
I take my leave and all that stuff. I need
31:31
to get some modern writing. But I still do like them.
31:37
I did think, yeah, what you've said, she was brave.
31:40
She was brave doing that and it was a challenge.
31:42
But I think, what if I read I can't remember
31:46
at the moment, I have read something that wasn't written
31:48
by the author. It was like a sequel, And I
31:50
just thought the same thing. If someone's written a really
31:53
good book, it's very very hard too.
31:56
Speaker 1: But even in the Chase halperly Quist that was that
32:00
was the prequel of a sequel written by the same person,
32:03
Go Catch a Watchman.
32:04
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly what we did that, didn't we hear?
32:08
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but people didn't like didn't put go set
32:11
a Watchmen on the same plane? Yeah, very good, And
32:17
yet it's the same author.
32:18
Speaker 2: I know that's interesting, isn't it? Was it a one
32:21
hit wonder? It was something like that in a way,
32:23
wasn't it.
32:24
Speaker 1: I think she never actually that was published when I
32:27
think it was. She knew she was dying and she
32:30
released to the rights on Go sett to Watchmen, But
32:35
she only ever published the one book. Same with.
32:40
Speaker 3: But I think, you know the difference between those books.
32:43
I think was like particularly was that you know, it
32:49
was like they seemed like good people, but then in
32:54
Go Set and Watchmen, you realize they weren't, you know,
32:57
And it's that sort of you know, it's not because
33:01
he couldn't honestly say that it was a feel good story,
33:06
but to Kill a Mockingbird. But but it does have
33:08
you know, it does inasmuch as the goodness of the
33:11
people shines through despite the sort of that that the
33:15
unhappy ending. If you like, you know, there's there's what
33:19
it's a bit like maybe a Steinbeck thing really where this,
33:23
despite the misery of it all, it seems to end
33:27
with a with a feeling of hope, you know. And
33:29
I think that that's like which which which Which wasn't
33:33
the case in Go Set a Watchman, you know, And
33:35
I think that, you know, I think that's part of it.
33:37
You know, this is where judicious editing by somebody would say,
33:41
you know, go and finish that ending a bit differently,
33:44
you know.
33:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that. Yes, she kind of
33:49
ruined it. Sorry, so yeah, I think she kind of
33:52
ruined the Killer Mockingbird.
33:55
Speaker 1: I think that's possibly the reason why she didn't release
33:58
it until she knew she was dying.
34:01
Speaker 3: But again, I'm not sure why she would do that anyway.
34:04
Speaker 1: You know, it's like I think possibly before somebody else
34:08
got the hands on it and decided to do a
34:09
sequet of their own, because sometimes that happens even others copyright.
34:15
Once that the the author knows that they are going
34:21
to be on their way, they want to put their
34:24
version out there before somebody comes in and tries to
34:28
better them.
34:29
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Now, I think I can understand that there
34:31
might be that sort of you know that it's that
34:35
last moment of control really that you can actually that
34:38
you're in charge of it. You know, I accept that totally.
34:41
I mean, it's you know, there are you know, it's
34:43
like Ian Fleming has been sequeled if that's the right word.
34:48
You know, by other people, have they and by by
34:52
very good authors. You know, they've been commissioned and they
34:55
they've done children's versions. Did did Charlie Higson not write
35:00
one of those? I mean I haven't read them? Would again?
35:04
It's one of those things, you know, I mean, I've
35:06
got I've got shelves full of books that I haven't read,
35:09
you know, Whether I would then choose to go and
35:12
read something like that? You know, and again it's that
35:14
judging the book by the cover thing. Really, you know,
35:16
of all the books that you're there to read, why
35:18
would you go and choose that one, you know, in
35:20
this particular one. You know it was because it was
35:23
part of our book club thing. But I wouldn't have
35:27
done otherwise, you know.
35:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, think that's probably fair. Okay, well should we
35:32
give it marks out of ten? Go on to go first.
35:38
Speaker 1: I'm going to go eight.
35:42
Speaker 2: I'll go five, all right, this show.
35:45
Speaker 3: Is I'm going to go six, I think, you know.
35:48
You know, at the end of the day, I read
35:50
it twice, you know, so there's not many there's not
35:53
many books that I'll go back and read read again,
35:57
which and the second time, you know, it flowed a
36:01
lot better. But that was purely because Jane Austin had
36:05
developed the characters for me.
36:06
Speaker 2: So well, I'm still in shock that you like Pride
36:10
and Prejudice. I think it's amazing. You just never know,
36:12
do you what's going to happen?
36:14
Speaker 1: Well, you see, I remember when this book came out,
36:17
and I remember by it clearly saying, oh may I
36:21
have to go and read Pride and Play.
36:24
Speaker 3: That's what I said too.
36:26
Speaker 2: I agree, well, I remember what we did. We did
36:28
the Thomas Hardy.
36:30
Speaker 3: What was it Turn of the Native?
36:31
Speaker 2: Yes, and he went, oh, I still love that book.
36:37
I do love Thomas Hardy. Okay, we've got.
36:40
Speaker 3: I've written down that. Out of the I think the
36:42
fifteen or sixteen books that I've been involved in reviewing,
36:46
there's only been two being my choice. So I think
36:49
that I was probably just feeling that sort of.
36:54
Speaker 2: But I'm fine, Yes, we just do this for fun.
36:58
It's really good because it does take it to places
37:01
you never thought you'd go with.
37:03
Speaker 3: But the thing is, you know, apart from the groaning,
37:06
like I said, the Bride and the prejudice was it
37:09
was a revelation, you've sold it to be.
37:11
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to get Barried to put his hand
37:13
in the in the hat, pick out the next choose
37:19
my own. I hope it's Barries too. Let's see the
37:23
moment of truth.
37:26
Speaker 3: William Boyd any human Heart.
37:29
Speaker 2: That's actually mine. I know nothing about it, but I
37:33
just thought it was a modern ish one. It's not
37:36
like a historical Victorian novel.
37:38
Speaker 3: That's fine.
37:39
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's kind of written in a journalist
37:42
style or something, so that should be quite interesting. I
37:44
don't know what it's about, but I have.
37:46
Speaker 3: Learned since the last few cent from the last one,
37:49
you know that just to go along with any choice,
37:51
you never know what might might happen, you know, So
37:53
travel hopefully, I think. Is the thing so cool?
37:56
Speaker 2: So just before we go, did you want to add
37:58
some some date? So something that you're doing.
38:02
Speaker 1: A christ there's a couple of things that Roberts and I.
38:08
We've got an exhibition. It's called it's called set in Stone,
38:13
and basically, well, we're doing proofs for the new Saint
38:18
Talliens book, the new Amy publication, which is Saint Ellians
38:22
in fifty Buildings, Wow, and it examines the history of
38:27
the town through fifty of its buildings that's still standing.
38:31
And then I've done some concrete poetry, so we're combining
38:35
the photographs and some concrete poetry which has nothing to
38:39
do with the Saint Helens book in an exhibition and
38:43
that's why it's called Set in Stone. And it's at
38:46
the Millennium Art Gallery, which is within the Millennium Center
38:51
in Saint Helens. It's on Corporation Street and it's from
38:55
Friday the fourth of July to Friday August the Firs,
39:00
and it's free and really it's it's it's because of
39:04
an NHS stopping center within the building. It's from nine
39:08
till nine, seven days a week, so anybody is a
39:11
passing through can just go in and have a look
39:14
at it.
39:17
Speaker 2: Your poetry there and it's it's my it's my poetry.
39:19
Speaker 1: It's Robert's photographs, yes, and it's it's my poetry. And
39:24
it's concrete poetry, which is where the shape of the
39:28
poem echoes the subject of the poem. So for example,
39:33
if you were talking about the crucifixion, the poem would
39:36
be in the shape of the cross.
39:39
Speaker 2: Interesting, so you.
39:40
Speaker 1: Don't have the shape of the cross drawing on and
39:43
you feel it. You have to make the shape shape
39:46
of the cross with your words. It's hard to do,
39:50
Crystal bet it is. It sounds really, really really hard
39:53
to do because you've got to keep the rhythm of
39:57
the poem but not let it's you know, ruin the
40:01
shape of the actual poem itself. So it text me
40:06
about well one or two that in it. It's take
40:09
me over a year to do. Wow o, kid, going
40:12
back to it. So it's a lot of a lot
40:14
of crafting, so that's one of the things christ and
40:18
then the lens On's Writing Project which I run on
40:25
Tuesday mornings that that they're doing a performance call Words
40:31
in the Park. So it's poetry, nano fiction and flash
40:35
fiction and some music and some singing. Now that all
40:40
the money raised them that goes to keep the writings
40:44
from going, goes to pay our rent and so on.
40:47
And that's on the eighth of July and it's six
40:51
to eight o'clock. It's ten pounds with refreshments and as
40:58
I say, all that money goes straight into our bank
41:02
Accounterpace Events, so we can we can keep going.
41:06
Speaker 2: Sounds really good. I will definitely make it because I'm
41:09
actually going to be a bit more free in the holidays.
41:11
I'm just going to give the phone number out if
41:12
anyone is interested, you can phone Liverpool Community Radio on
41:16
O seven seven six one nine O eight O six three.
41:22
That's O seven seven six one nine O eight oh
41:26
six three if anyone's interested in going to see They're
41:29
all in Saint Helen's, aren't they.
41:31
Speaker 1: Yes.
41:33
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that you and Rab are like the Saint
41:35
Helen's Beckhams, Victoria and David of Saint Helen's. Absolutely. I
41:41
deal with the very own. We have our very own
41:44
Beckhams in Saint.
41:45
Speaker 1: Helen's with Alvin money Christ, well.
41:50
Speaker 2: He probably better off. We've probably a lot nice and
41:52
you haven't had.
41:53
Speaker 1: I think I think I might be a bit happier.
41:55
I kind of think we have.
41:56
Speaker 2: Victoria's getting all the facelifts now, isn't she so has
41:59
got all the chat He's Robert hasn't got the tattoos, hasn't.
42:02
He's much more handsome than David with his tattoos. So
42:06
I'm probably a bit more talented, I think, well a
42:08
lot more talented. Okay, so we'll stay on the line.
42:11
We're going to finish very soon. We've got the next book. Sorry,
42:14
what is the next book again, Barry? If you can
42:16
just repeat that, because I've forgot my own book.
42:18
Speaker 3: It's Any Human Heart by William Boyd.
42:20
Speaker 2: You don't get Any Human Heart by William Boyd? How interesting.
42:23
So anyone out there who wants to join us, you're
42:26
very welcome. You can go to the library. We get
42:28
our books from Sefton Park Library, which we want to
42:30
thank because they do allow us to borrow them and
42:34
sometimes we're very, very late. In returning them, I just.
42:37
Speaker 1: Thank Shevington Library as well, where I got my book from.
42:42
Speaker 2: Absolutely yes cool. Okay then, so we're going to head
42:48
off and we'll see everyone next month. So do you
42:51
want to say anything last goodbye at all?
42:54
Speaker 3: Barry, No, goodbye, thank you and
42:57
Speaker 1: Sue goodbye good bye from me