Latest / ShameOver - The Drink Less Podcast / Why So Many Moms Use Alcohol to Shut Off with Elani Engelken (Part 1)
Transcript
- Erica And ShameOver: If you have ever felt that evening drinking is maybe the first time all day that your body gets to exhale, this episode is going to hit. Today I'm talking with depth psychotherapist, Alani Engelken, and we are going into somatic work, nervous system healing, and why alcohol often becomes a stand in for the support that moms and women are not getting elsewhere. This one's powerful, so let's jump in. Erica+ShameOver: Hello, welcome back to Shame Over. I'm Erica and I am so excited about our guest today. She is a dear friend and someone who I've been able to work a little bit here with, here and there with a little bit, but Alani, welcome. And I am so glad to have you here. So please feel free to introduce yourself. Erica And ShameOver: Okay, this conversation is too good to rush, so we are breaking it into two parts. In today's episode, we talked about somatic work, co-regulation, and why alcohol becomes a shutoff valve for so many women. And what's really happening underneath that urge to numb. But in part two, we're gonna go even deeper into intuition, trauma responses, disassociation, self-sabotage, and how healing actually starts. Elani Engelken: Thank you, friend. ⁓ My name is Alani Engelkin. I am a depth psychotherapist, D-E-P-T-H, not death. Although death is absolutely a part of depth work. ⁓ But yes, a depth psychotherapist. I also do a lot of somatic work, so body-based healing work in Denver, Colorado, and actually I'm Erica's neighbor. That's part of how we met each other, just a few blocks away from each other. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Erica And ShameOver: So make sure you come back next week because honestly, the next part goes there. Can't wait to see you soon. And if you feel like this spoke to you, if you just need more help in this area, please check out this show notes where I would have my information as well as Alani's. I also just kicked off a four week reset. whether you are new to this, whether you are trying to just get back to a place where you feel comfortable going into summer. Erica+ShameOver: Yeah. Yeah! Exactly. So how did you get into what you're doing? And I definitely want to dive into a lot more because you've opened my eyes to so many things kind of in this realm. So. Erica And ShameOver: That's exactly what this reset is. It is not a sobriety program. is not four weeks, no drinking. It doesn't even have to do with rules. It is understanding what your patterns are, what your habits currently look like. So you can actually figure out what's underneath the drinking. And that's where we go then. So check out the show notes for that. As always, if you enjoyed this, please like, share, subscribe. That's the only way that I can grow and continue to do this and help more people. So with that. Elani Engelken: ⁓ Such a good question. I was actually thinking about that right before we hopped on. I don't even remember in what capacity I was thinking about it, but I think it was in this, it was, I thinking about our conversation that we had earlier in the week and this kind of like really intuitive. connecting the dots that happened in just a personal exchange realizing that that is so much of how I ⁓ always oriented. Right. And now I have my own podcast that's called a little bit psychic in because I was getting this reflection back to me from healers and psychics that I worked with that I also was gifted in that way. And I would it more like highly intuitive. Erica And ShameOver: Cheers, we'll see you next time. Elani Engelken: but it's always how I oriented since childhood. I could read people, I could kind see through stuff. It was very confusing as a child there's a lot that people hide, ⁓ don't say that in public, we don't do that. So ⁓ didn't know how to work with it because it ⁓ wasn't in the world the way that it is starting to be welcomed now. ⁓ Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. Hmm. Elani Engelken: But I also like, how did I get started? I remember I always felt like I had to read the newspaper. My parents are both intellectuals. And so there was some shaming here and there, like, you don't know about this current event or whatever. And my dad always read the paper every morning. So I always felt like I should sit down and read the paper, like probably at like eight years old or something. But I would always slip to the comics section. So I'm reading the paper, I'm reading the comics. But. Erica+ShameOver: I mean, duh, duh. Elani Engelken: Where I would usually end up actually was Dear Abby. Erica+ShameOver: Dear Abby, ⁓ my God, yes, I wanted to be like dear Erica. And I'm like, yep, yeah, ⁓ my God, totally. Elani Engelken: Right? So would sit there and I would read Dear Abby and I was like eight years old and I would read the question and I would think about how I would answer it before I would read Dear Abby's response. So I always wanted to formulate, you know, and I'm like reading about relationship issues of adults and I'd be like, how would I respond to this? I think like it was always there. And then as I got into my early 20s, I would say I really kind of started to get to this cumulative impact of my own mental health and physical health, right? They're two sides of the same coin. Struggles and was trying to better understand myself, trying to heal, and was really seeking out a lot of personal development work, actually did try therapy. didn't totally vibe with it. And then ⁓ found some personal development work through Lululemon. I was working at Lululemon at the time and there was this big people development culture that was all about goal setting and personal responsibility and self-awareness and feedback. And so ⁓ I doing a lot of courses. And I was like, I kept doing them for myself. And so through that work, I started to realize like I really enjoyed working with other people and developing people, developing myself. It's what I was spending my money on. It's what I was spending my free time doing when I wasn't going out to the bars getting wasted. ⁓ and eventually I was like, you know, I really care about this and I don't really care about retail. And so I left the company when I was, I think 26, and kind of floundered for a while and then ended up starting my own life coaching business before it was really a thing when I was 27. And really, I mean, that's kind of been the through line now for over a decade. The coaching has always been there and it still shows up in my therapeutic work. You know, I really look at coaching as more future-based. more like training someone's game, right? And therapy we might think of more as like processing someone's emotional space. I do both, because I think it all matters. I think your past matters. I think your present matters. And I think your future matters, so. Erica+ShameOver: agreed. I love that. That was for me a big thing about coaching as well, because I'm a huge fan of therapy. I will always be a huge fan of therapy, but I feel like sometimes you can get stuck in the past and in the feelings, which you absolutely need to process that. But then what's next? And actually moving forward from there is a big piece that I found a lot of people can miss that. Elani Engelken: Yes. Really? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: So I know somatic, it's becoming much more, I feel like a buzzword. Like I know I see it everywhere. So for people who have maybe seen it, have no clue what it's about, what does it actually mean? Elani Engelken: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, so somatic work, the root word of somatic is soma and soma is body. So it's body-based work in kind ⁓ of therapy paradigm, we would call it ⁓ bottom-up work. So we're working with the emotional state up to cognitive. So we're ⁓ shifting the... state of the nervous system of the body so that the cognition shifts. Talk therapy is top down. So you're working with the cognition, you're working with the thoughts, you're changing the thoughts so that the feeling changes. I think they're both really important. Depth work, part of why I was really drawn to depth work is because it encompasses talk therapy. but it looks at the self as the cumulation of mind, body, soul. And so you're working with all three parts of the self. And then for me, my past childhood, early 20s, well really into my early ⁓ was as a dancer. So there was always this very like physical existence that I had, sometimes very in my body, sometimes very like... in harmony and enjoying my body and other times like really disassociated from it and really trying to perfect it, trying to control it, right? And so in a Jungian sense, a depth, psychotherapy from Carl Jung's work. So in a Jungian sense, ⁓ every we separate ourself from the body, that is a disintegration. we are becoming disintegrated, right? So it's like, my body does this. And as soon as you do that, you've taken yourself out of relationship with it, right? But we really are the experience of the body, of the soul and of the mind. So Carl Jung, another reason I love work is because Carl Jung looked at the path to healing as really the integration of self. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Elani Engelken: So all of those parts coming together. And we live in a Western culture and a Western culture is very focused on the intellect. So we're very mind-based, right? Like we think about the Cartesian split, mind over matter. So the mind is supposed to dominate the body. The mind is supposed to control the body and often will negate the body, right? And then when we think about drinking, what does drinking serve? Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Mm-hmm. Elani Engelken: In some cases, it serves as a way to kind of push the body into a different state of being, to override the messages that the body is telling us, right? As shamanistic cultures actually used to work ⁓ the body to influence the state of being, but not to override it. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Mmm. Interesting. wow. Well, and I've definitely seen so many ⁓ the women that I work with. It's typically moms, midlife moms that, you know, also in that kind of sandwich ⁓ generation they have kids that are likely still at home or still they support while also dealing with aging parents who now they're having to be a big part in that role. ⁓ And just feels like alcohol is literally Elani Engelken: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Erica+ShameOver: their shutoff. is their, the first moment that they've taken for themselves that it's almost become a way of like, this means I'm done. Like I can't anymore today. And it, it sounds a lot encompassing of what you just said. Elani Engelken: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, and you bring up a really good point when you talk about this, you know, you and I met because we were part of a mom's group in our neighborhood. And so we know what that feels like to kind of be in that space of having young children, but also to to be in awareness of, you know, you and I so much, but aging parents. and the potential of having to caretake them. Part of what alcohol serves for so many moms is that it becomes the support system where the support system is lacking everywhere else, right? Dysfunctional in some regards, but very functional in other regards. And... Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. Yes. Elani Engelken: you know, talking about our Western culture again, like we have a huge disservice for people in middle age right now because we don't really prioritize or platform ⁓ in ⁓ culture. So there isn't a ton of elder support, which is ideal. Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. yeah, exactly. Elani Engelken: that as you move into your parenting years, you're supported by your parents. And we don't have the village, we have a culture that's very focused on the nuclear family and kind of hyper individualism, too much focus on two parents or maybe one. And so for many women, right, like, Erica+ShameOver: Hmm? Yeah. Elani Engelken: Alcohol kind of steps in as that stand-in. Like something's here to help soothe me. Something's here to help regulate me. Something's here to calm me down. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Exactly. And that I found that so much. mean, even with myself, like I realized that it was essentially a form of regulation. And so my number one rule, which I share this probably every podcast just about is I don't drink for negative emotions because I know that when I'm doing that, not only is it harder for me to stop, but that's what makes me keep coming back to it. And my body and brain saying, as soon as I'm uncomfortable or had a bad day, like you need this, it's going to solve it. Elani Engelken: Yes! Mm-hmm. Erica+ShameOver: Like, no, it's not actually regulating me. It's like paralyzing, you know, part of my body for a minute or my brain for a little bit, but it's not actually helping to regulate it all. But that's what we've taught ourselves is how to regulate wine. Elani Engelken: Mm-hmm. Thanks for watching! Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, and you you're another really important point to light, which is that human beings are mammals. So ⁓ co-regulate in relationship. We co-regulate with others. And again, we've really split apart the pack. we've placed this premium ⁓ on individualism and being able to like do it yourself and pick yourself up by bootstraps. And really, like any sort of addictive behavior, whether it's a process addiction, right, like something like shopping or gambling, like, there's, there's an activity that I'm doing that's giving me a change in my body, or it's substance addiction, like really, all of that is co regulation. Erica+ShameOver: you Yes. Elani Engelken: It's all serving to change my physiology. But human beings ideally would be doing that with another human being. Erica+ShameOver: Hmm? Mmm. Elani Engelken: And that's part of why our animals are so important to us because in the ways that like a lot of our human and adult relationships are conditional or they're complex, right? Like our animals, our dogs are very unconditional in their love, right? And there's a co-regulation that happens in cuddling them, but doesn't stand in the need that we have. Erica+ShameOver: Mm. you Mmm. Elani Engelken: of the love and attachment to other human beings. Erica+ShameOver: That is so fascinating. mean, I have an emotional support dog literally right here next to me, but I've never really fully connected what you just said. it's, mean, as you mentioned, we connected because being in this mom's group and being pregnant, having now two kids, both basically almost the exact same ages. But you had even given me a book that I have been using quite a bit, as well as a bunch of different parenting resources. Elani Engelken: Thank Yes. Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: That is what really taught me so much about the co-regulation piece because I see that so much with my kids, because they are what, primarily my daughter, but both, them doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing as kids by challenging me and testing boundaries and all of this is so triggering to me. And the one thing that they need in that moment is for me to be calm to them and speak that calmly when I just want to lose my mind, right? So it's just... Elani Engelken: Yes. Yes. Erica+ShameOver: does that have a lot to do with the fact that I probably wasn't experienced to the co-regulation just like my parents weren't and their parents and you know, obviously this all generational stuff that's been passed on. Elani Engelken: Yeah, so our parents generation, so the boomer generation was the generation of behaviorism. So that generation, generally speaking, focused on behavior modification. That's how they parented. So it was about, a fallacy that the adult mind and the reason and logic was being projected onto children. And we now know that children's brains operate very differently than adult brains. But behaviorism came from the belief that children processed with the same level of reflection and logic as an adult. So silly. So silly. So it was punishment. Erica+ShameOver: Mm-hmm. How could they have thought this ever in time? Mm-hmm. Elani Engelken: and behavior correction, don't do that. ⁓ were you thinking? Punishment, go away, ⁓ out. Physical punishment, fear. So of the things that we now know create a trauma response in the nervous system and also induce isolation, which is one of the most damaging things for human beings because we're pack animals and we co-regulate. Erica+ShameOver: Exactly, yeah. Really? Mmm Elani Engelken: So there's so much that the millennials grew up with that was so damaging for the relational quality of our adult relationships and our nervous systems. So when we are being challenged by our children, ⁓ right? our children are immediate. They're in the moment, they don't have that reflection, they don't have that same time concept, they don't have logic and reason fully developed until age 27. So they're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. And then we're getting mad at them because that was our modeling that is imprinted in us. And also we don't totally know how to give and receive in our adult relationships because that wasn't the modeling either. So we're in this really crazy intersection of our own modeling and our own nervous system deficits while also having the research and information to do better and we are. But at times it can be like a catch 22 because we know how it should be and we're also fucking losing our shit. And so yeah, alcohol sounds great. Erica+ShameOver: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so overwhelming to the nervous system too, because it's like, when you know better, you do better. But I always say like, I can label any emotion that there is. How I feel it and process it in a healthy way is a completely different story. And that's my job now is to teach my kids how to do this. But I am learning with them and you know, why alcohol has been so impactful and powerful and why I'm so beyond Elani Engelken: Yeah. Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: proud of myself for having the relationship that I do now because if I didn't, I would be drinking every single day and probably all day long, you know, because it would just be too much for me to feel like I could handle. Elani Engelken: Yeah. Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: So is this something that you've seen with, obviously depending on ⁓ type of ⁓ that you work with, but is alcohol or consumption of ⁓ kind? Because as you mentioned, it can be shopping, it can be social media, it can be, in my mind, ⁓ co-regulation as you mentioned, but we're trying to fill cup with something to make us feel better when really we just need to feel the feelings that we're trying to feel. Elani Engelken: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and feel the feelings that we're trying to feel to a certain extent and also be with other people. And not through social media, like picking up the phone and calling someone or having, brings me back to ⁓ of where we started the conversation of talking about what really is. That that I felt growing up when I would say things and it would be like. Erica+ShameOver: Bye. Yes. Yeah. Elani Engelken: you can't say that and it would be like, wait, but that's like a thing that's happening and real and like, so, know, and doing it in a safe way, right? Like knowing who your people are that can show up for you in those moments and listen to you and, and use against you ⁓ or, you judge you punish you with it. like, ⁓ really reaching out to human beings. That's one of the most healing things that we have, right? And I'm sure that's something that you see in the groups that you facilitate often. Like often it is the community aspect that is the most healing. People finding places where they can be fully themselves and share the shit of it and share the joy of it. And they, all of a sudden they realize like, I don't even need you to Erica+ShameOver: Hmm. Elani Engelken: to fix it for me. I thought I needed more money or I thought I needed, you know, a better diet or whatever, but all I needed to share was on my, what was on my heart and like do it in a place that was open and accepting. And all of a sudden I feel so much better. Erica+ShameOver: Yes, ⁓ mean, you absolutely nailed it. My would say a majority of the people that have been with me have been there a couple of years and it is because of the community. Like it's not that they're ⁓ still how they were when they first came in. Like that's not it at all. But they realized so quickly, one, that their drinking's not near as much about the drinking as they thought, but more than anything that they just needed this space with people who understood and who got them and saw them. Elani Engelken: Right. Totally. Right, and people who are in a similar conversation and ready to look at themselves in this way. think a lot of us are craving that level of openness and authenticity in our lives. ⁓ not everybody's gonna go there. Not everybody is actually even working on the same things. I think often we can project, ⁓ is what I'm doing, and this has helped me so much, everybody should do this. I mean, that was the whole first half of my career. Erica+ShameOver: Yes. Elani Engelken: It was like, everybody in my life, don't you want to do this? it's like, actually, Alani, like, not everybody's signing up for that game. But some people are. So like, you know, similar to why you and I connected in such a deep way, because like you and I are in similar conversations and we crave that level of connection. And great, find your people. Erica+ShameOver: ⁓ yeah. Yes. I mean, that hits so close to home. Cause I know for me, just being on this journey, you know, once I meet new mom friends, they're like, what do you do? And I tell them, like, I could tell very quickly, like if this is going to go anywhere or not. Cause a lot of people are just like, Ooh, like I don't, you know, it's, it's a fear of judgment, but projected, like they assume I'm going to judge how much they're drinking or if they're drinking or anything along those lines. ⁓ which I know, you know, Elani Engelken: Yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right. Erica+ShameOver: especially being on the journey and ⁓ it's dieting or whatever, when we're in the thick of it, it can be easy to almost feel like you know best or, you cause it's so hyper-focused cause it's what you're working on. But that needs to be extended because a lot of times when people really early on start working on this, they start noticing. Elani Engelken: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: how much others are drinking and start, know, like it's easy to focus on that. like, just comparison is that the joy, get that out, stop doing that comparison game and just focus on yourself. But finding that space, like you said, where you can be safe, where you are in community. Elani Engelken: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Erica+ShameOver: I love that.