Latest / Unscripted Direct / Episode 159 - Surprise

Transcript

Episode 159 - Surprise · Unscripted Direct

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Unscripted Direct is brought to you by Walk Up, Melodia, Kelly, and Schoenberger, based in San Francisco, but with cases all over the country.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Walk-up is one of the most respected plaintiffs' personal injury and wrongful death walk.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: The attorneys of Walk-up are passionate about trying cases, and some of our cases have come from our listeners.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: If someone reaches out to you with a case, we're happy to see how we can help out.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: So normally this is an end read, but I'm gonna make it a testimonial.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're fabulous.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we thank Walk Up for supporting this podcast and our trial advocacy community.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Uncle Federal.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Spencer Falky from Berkeley Law and Justin Bernstein, UCLA.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: This week we have results from the final All-Star Regional and some unusual case changes for All-Star Nationals.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have a revealing interview with McGeorge's Dominique Hinson.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have new gavel stats and stories and gossip from Jared Rosenblatt.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: But first, Spencer, something's been on my mind recently that part of the job that people in our community don't talk about as much, which is getting students jobs.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, isn't that funny?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we don't, it doesn't get talked about that much.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: But if you were to rank the things that you are really trying to accomplish for your students, you know, at a high level, how high would that be on the list?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say that it's low in terms of the amount of time I spend on compared to some of the other things that are more regular, but it's the highest priority.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that in in the sense that both sort of in a moral sense, like what I care about the most, but also when rubber meets the road and I'm have limited time, the thing that I will prioritize on my to-do list is the letter of recommendation, the phone call to an employer, the the email to a judge.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's just more important than everything else we're doing.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everything we're doing is trying to give students the ability to do well in their careers, but that means they need to have a career and career options.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I completely agree.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I always say to students is at the end of your career, when you look back at your you know, top 100, you know, moments in trial, I hope that none of them are in mock trial.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is all in service of your future.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so we actually talk about it uh quite a bit.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from even when students are thinking about, you know, where to go to school, that kind of thing, um, throughout.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always, I always just talk about how, you know, this is an alumni network you're becoming part of.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're a future, you know, alum of the program and we track this stuff assiduously.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've got Berkeleytrial Map.com.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Jared doesn't own that.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I own that.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for now I know.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows what he's gonna do with these brokers and whatever.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But um, where we track all of our alumni where they are is that it's like a an interactive map, and and we share it with our students because we want them to think, you know, if you want to be a prosecutor in Pittsburgh or trial lawyer in Seattle, like we want to be able to connect you.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a I actually talk about it quite a bit with the students on an ongoing basis.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what are some things that you do specifically to try to help students get jobs?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Apart from obviously training them, teaching them, you know, answering uh uh questions, giving advice, like when students are seeking specific jobs or or struggling to find jobs, uh, what are some things that you do?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I am just not afraid to ask.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, in other words, I will ask any alum in our community for, you know, for you know, to talk with a student who wants to do that thing or or in that place.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I in fact, I just did that a couple of nights ago.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was emailing and connecting folks.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: But also I like to, you know, honestly play on whatever cachet I get from, you know, being at walk-up and all of our connections and, you know, just use that as an excuse for me to meet somebody new.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't know, like they want to be a trial lawyer in Miami or whatever, I don't know somebody there.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just love, you know, just leaning on whatever connections I can generate based on that and and hooking them up, you know.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like you do that, it's just good, you know, and it will it'll make things better for everybody is what I do.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: How about you?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh this won't surprise you, but I would put it into three buckets.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice rule of three.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say the first is trying to advise them because I I think a lot of students at our school are pushed in the direction of going to big firms, right?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're going to a fancy law school, the school sort of makes it the default that unless you opt out, unless you jump off the conveyor belt, you're gonna end up at a big firm or clerkship or both.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of students, that's great.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly financially, that's great.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: But for some students, that's not what they want or not where they should be, or they're not sure.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I try to help students figure out what they want to do and what matches their their short and long-term goals.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And often I think sometimes working at a firm gets short shrift because even if you don't want to stay there long term, it can be really good for skill building and networking and building a resume.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: But try to help students figure out what they want to do and how to apply.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing is advising them on how to get it once they they want it in terms of how to do the networking.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'll review resumes, edit resumes, uh, we'll do practice interviews, probably do about a dozen of those a year, where especially with big if they're interviewing for big firms, because that's where I worked and did hiring.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sitting across from them and pretending to be the partner at such and such firm or the senior associate at another firm in LA or whatever, um, and really coaching them on the answers, but the same specificity that we would for, you know, motions luminee.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the biggest one, and I think this is what you alluded to, is actually trying to connect them with employers or recommending them or being a reference uh or call calling.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've done cold calling and cold emails.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I I wonder if you've had the same experience, but I find that the longer I I have I'm in this job, one of the benefits is I know more people and I can help them in more ways.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to somebody last week who's thinking about joining our community who wants to apply for a trial out job, and he's really young, he's super talented.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, I might wait a couple of years because I think you're gonna find that one benefit of being a little older is you know more folks, and that means you're gonna be able to help your students get more jobs.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I agree.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the but the community as well is its own resource.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have definitely leaned on so many folks out there for this kind of connection, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just fabulous, you know.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, nicely broken down into three to three uh categories.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I will um re respond with a Venn diagram because it's funny how I think about this.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in one circle is my own students who, you know, I'm you know frequently talking to about these things.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the other circle, which does overlap some, but not much, is, you know, I I talk to students all across the country about, you know, plaintiff's practice and all that stuff.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yesterday I spoke with, I think, three different folks about, you know, um, you know, what it looks like to be on the plaintiff's side and kind of helping them understand what the path might be for them because there's a lot of variation in it, obviously.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm weirdly addicted to uh helping people along in that, in that way.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that's an addiction.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you never cure.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so sweet of you.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, have you listened to Shane Inspector's uh How to Get a Job You Really Love uh YouTube video?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I've listened to his appearances on our show and on your show, Cause of Action.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so sweet of you to mention that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did interview him about it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And Spencer, where can people find cause of action?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, anywhere they listen to podcasts.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just search for cause of action with Spencer Paulkey.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You'll find it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's such a wonderful organic plug there, Justin.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But um uh Shannon has on YouTube this really great talk that I really honestly should consider sharing with your students, uh, folks out there, where he talks about how you get a job that you really love.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not necessarily just the job on the plaintiff's side, but he has some really insightful strategies, which you know I talked with him more about on the show.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good resource.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can tell you from my personal experience how I did it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I was sitting at home watching TV, eating lots of food, when a friend called and said, Do you want to do a podcast together?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I got the job I really wanted.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Fame and fortune, baby.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So anybody who who's looking to find their their calling, just sit around and wait.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Watch TV, eat ice cream, and wait for the phone to ring.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, shall we turn to something we like to call?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have an agenda.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, go ahead.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: The agenda on which next week.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's time for the largest fall invitational, the All-Star Bracket Challenge.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: The remaining 16 had their regional competition.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: The finalists were Hofstra and San Diego, and these two teams are headed in nationals in San Antonio, Drexel and St.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the full nationals field is listen up, Arizona, Cumberland, Drexel, Houston, St.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas, two UCLA teams, and Western State.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Spencer, you did that in alphabetical order.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I tend to do things like that on the fly.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I also added more energy because I realized that with Sam's music in the background, we can't just be kind you got you can't be flat.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta lean into this.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, 159 episodes in, I'm figuring that out.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Great job.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Go.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we also have results from college football, which we cover sporadically and conveniently.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this week, Texas lost to an unranked Oklahoma team, which is weird.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's weird because I thought that this year, like every year, was their year.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the loss leaves them tied for eighth in the SEC.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: They need any more salt, or you got enough over there for the wound.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're good?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're good.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm double checking.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is correct.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Eighth in the SEC.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's not eighth in the country, that's eighth in their conference.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't belong in that conference.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Cal defeated Virginia Tech in what many are calling an athletic triumph that now gives Cal a better conference record than Texas.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh UCLA had to play Oregon in Oregon and suffered the loss of their starting quarterback earlier in the game, but the Bruins found a way, earning one of the season's signature wins while improving to 5-0.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: They did.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, congrats to you, Spencer.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: As Nebraska football.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: As Nebraska football also had one of its best games in recent memory, losing narrowly in a heartbreaking fashion at home.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: We definitely did, and we should have won that game.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we outplayed them the whole time.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: They may have ended up with more points, but it was like two plays.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Who hasn't said that before?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody says that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a Nebraska football fortune cookie.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: We were way closer to winning than usual.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: We should have won.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, usually we shouldn't have.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or or the alternative uh Nebraska fortune cookie.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: We used to win.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's uh recap the all-star bracket challenge a little bit here, Justin.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Last week we talked about the unusual case design with a staged crime scene.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: What do you have in store for the nationals case?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: People are dying to know.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, we just announced to the final eight teams uh two big case changes.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're excited about them.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, we've made a witness change.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the witness whose statement was included before, the alibi witness, is now a live witness.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're changing one of the witnesses for nationals, and they are going to be a live witness uh played by students from St.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mary's.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh anything else?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the other witness, so before the defense had two witnesses, the defendant and an expert.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're calling an alibi witness, so we they can't have three witnesses.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we're trying to figure out who should be the witness be.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: We thought, okay, we could pick one, pick the other, give them a choice.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, actually, let's make this a little more realistic.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: In real life, the client decides whether they're gonna testify in a criminal case.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: The defendant gets to decide.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna let the defendant exercise that choice independent of the lawyers.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So before every round, there's gonna be a coin flip that is the defendant's choice.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, heads the defendant says, I'm not testifying, the expert will.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tails, the defendant says, I am testifying, and the expert will not.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So teams will not, yeah, teams won't know their witness calls until 15 minutes before trial.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was gonna say it was an audible, but it's not.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's determined by coin.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can't like strategically make the decision.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I like it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you got you gotta be ready for both.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know if your client's gonna test.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows which way that coin's gonna go?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Justin, this week you had the chance to sit down with Dominique Hinson of McGeorge School of Law.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Dominique and I chatted beforehand.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there's been a lot of questions about the program and some of the recent uh job postings.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh she was willing to come on and and share how she's feeling and what's going on.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Dominique Hinson.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: We welcome back to the show, Dominique Henson.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Dominic, how are you doing?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so good.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Remind everybody where you work and what you do.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I work at the University of Pacific, McGeorge School of Law, and I am a law professor and one of the trial ad directors.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: We had a chance to hang out a little bit uh last week at first here.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was nice to see you.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was so good to see you.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, your team definitely kicked my team's butt in trivia, but let's make it well.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: At least you played fair uh because you had one team with you know more people than uh were allowed according to eligibility rules.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, we're at that point when people start forgetting the rules.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: My team, I think we were the personality hire.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: We called ourselves team personality hire.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And both of the advocates that I was working with advanced.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: So nice job.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out to them.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's some real teaching.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was Chapman and Denver.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: They were on my team.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you were in Orange County, you've now gotten to live in California for a few years.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how would you compare the food in Sacramento to the food in in SoCal and San Francisco?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm still like not team California Mexican food, and I know that's controversial, but I have to remind you, I'm from San Antonio, Texas.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wouldn't call it a controversy, I'd just say it's wrong.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I understand you're a foodie and you've got like you've got the restaurants down, you're the person everyone asks.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't hit like Tex Mex.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just it's not the same as real Mexican food.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a fine, you know.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think there are a lot of places that are like, I call them in LA and San Diego, hype beast places, long lines, mediocre food, but you can put it on your Instagram and so people like it.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about the taqueras, the hole in the wall places, San Diego, even those places, even those.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: But are they that great?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: You wanted me to wait two hours for that?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: You can't.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: I remember last year at First Chair in San Diego.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all have me waiting in line for like an hour and a half for these mid-tacos, as opposed to Tex Max, where it's just beans and cheese in a microwave.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's very, very disrespectful.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh been to Papacitos.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Have you been?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Which is not in San Antonio.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's me.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Papacitos is very good.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like if I miss anything from Texas, it's two things.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Bumbo, queso.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: Everything else, I believe it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Dominique, I want to ask you about what's happening at McGeorge because I think people on the outside have a lot of questions.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you get that sense, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: I do get that sense from my texts and emails.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So speaking of emails, uh, this past summer on July 29th, 2026, there's an email sent to the trial at listserv, and the title is McGeorge School of Law Seeks Director of Trial Advocacy.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people, when they got that email, including me, thought, I think Dominique has that job.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the email says that the school is looking for a director of trial advocacy.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: It said it might be tenured or might not be tenured, might be a contract uh deal, may not be.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Did you draft that email?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, I did not draft that email.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know it was coming out?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I had no idea it was going out at all.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when did you find out that McGeorge was advertising for a director of trial advocacy position while you were already McGeorge?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the first time I found out about it was before that was on the listserv.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Someone had texted me that it popped up on LinkedIn, but I never heard that the job posting was going out.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: I never knew it was going on the listserv, and I never actually received notice about the application.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: How does the position that's described in the email and that's been posted publicly compare to the one that you currently have already?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I would imagine that the person fulfilling that role would be doing the job that I'm doing right now.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was your reaction when you found out that McGeorge was posting this this job?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, curious.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: I was curious about it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: What I really want to say is actually some of the the real TLDR is uh last year I served as this interim director, and um this year they did not renew that stipend.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I was actually curious.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm not technically a I don't have a contract as an associate director right now.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have a contract as a director in their eyes.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think what happened in July when my interim stipend ended, they were like, well, we'll just let her keep doing the job.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: She's stupid enough to do it, and um, we'll just hire someone else.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not getting paid an interim stipend this year.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I do think it's a bit of a misrepresentation for me to say it's my job.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's an accurate representation to say I am doing the job.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what you said, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is what I said.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, curious sounds like a muted answer.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that fair?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is fair.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: It is fair.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how could you not be upset when you saw that?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, in general, I am focused on the work.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: And anybody in our community will tell you I'm good for politicking.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that is a stump speech, and that is a good answer, but it is the right answer and it's the true answer.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I have a lot of work to do.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have ethics coming, we have other things going on, and um I'm really committed to the students in that program.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: There have been lots of changes, you know, there have been lots of different people at the top, and that might be reflective of other focuses, but mine is on the team and the students in my class.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you say change the top, you mean Jay and Carrie, then Annie, then Reza, then you, and now Simone.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's all within about a what six-year period, seven-year period?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that email was sent in July.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: What, if anything, can you tell us about what's happening now?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I have no clue in terms of um the administration.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't been brought into the loop in any of um the happenings, but in terms of the team, uh, a busy competition season.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask, did you apply for the role?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, I did not submit an application.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Dominique, I don't think any of the questions are a surprise.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You and I chatted before you came on, and I I'd asked you if uh if you want to come on.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it'd be a great idea.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you thought so too.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: What was it that you wanted people to know?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like I see my own life as a reflection of the whole system of advocacy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've served in so many different roles um as a student, as a director, and all the things like so many of us have, but um as directors, we are also growing professionally.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: We're going from practitioners to learning how to navigate academia.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I am learning how to navigate academia.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um what I'm going through, it's already public.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: People already wonder.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh if I can shed light and I can support people in navigating programs that make sense for them, roles that make sense for them, being honest about how interview processes look and um the nuance of the institution of academia that is very different than our practice, then I want to do that.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this summer at the same time that the job posting was put up without me knowing is when Liz Bowles reached out and asked for me to serve as her president-elect in Melee.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, this is one of those opportunities that I can help light the path for other professionals who want to make the job of teaching advocacy um part of their profession.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so I want to fill in the gaps and I want to help people do what they love and make a profession of it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I find myself in an interesting situation and I have to be honest about it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's easier to shed light than to leave people wondering.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you you raise a good point because a lot of people who join our trial advocacy education community were practitioners.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think almost all of us were practitioners before we were full-time faculty or even part-time faculty.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the world is very different in academia than it is at law firms or DA's offices or public defenders' offices.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give to people on the administrative side?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because we often talk about teaching or coaching or running a team, but what about dealing with the administration?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give any concrete advice to people who are just starting out in this world about how to navigate that lesser talked about side?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think the first thing to remember is that most of us as practitioners come in as coaches with some shared experience as a law student and you just you love it and you find all this purpose and all of that is real.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: But when you get into the job, you have to remember you are in a profession with other people who this is their career, and maybe purpose is not the only consideration.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to now navigate new politics, new priorities.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: You have to understand if your administration's priorities for experiential learning for an advocacy program match yours.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Do they support coaches in the way that you want to support coaches?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do they invest in advocacy in the way that you want to?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because if not, you may find tension.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I don't think that administrations always know what they're looking for from a program.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Every time we go to EATS or anytime we go to TAC, anytime we're all together, we discuss that tension of uh our goals and administrative goals.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: And those don't always uh land at the same place.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so my goal is to help people continue to navigate that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the first thing is really understanding the institution that you're applying to.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: What are their goals for your job?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: You may have an understanding and theirs may be different.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it will help you decide: is this the program for me?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Is this the school for me?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um my understanding is there's some institutions who see uh our roles as faculty roles.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: There are some schools who will never see our roles as faculty roles.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: And you gotta know that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to know where your own goals are.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Do you intend to continue practicing while doing this job?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Do you intend on growing as a professor and doing this job?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to take on and adopt this particular administration's um goals for their school and the institution?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Do they align with your values?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Are you, do you have the same conviction uh to withstand whatever is being thrown at you and being willing to uh represent that um, those goals, your administration's decisions?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Can you stand beside those and adopt them as your own?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a different, you know, I was a bright-eyed former coach when I first started in academia, and I had no idea what I was in for.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I've had to make lots of decisions um with my conviction first.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not always easy.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I I know that I can politic or I can make things sound graceful, but the intersection of this really good purpose work we do as coaches, turn directors, um, it affects our careers too.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we gotta be wise about it.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: And those are some of the things I hope I can um continue to shine a light on and help those doing the good work do it really well.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think one thing that's hard about people in our profession is the lack of mobility that's available in in the job.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you're working at, say, a civil law firm in a mid sized or large city and you don't love the way you're Being treated, it's really easy to go across town or across the street because there's multiple civil law firms, often lots of civil law firms, and they probably have the kind of practice that you have.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are somebody who wants to make a career and a life out of teaching advocacy skills at a law school, there's often not another job in town.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not every school has these full-time opportunities.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And those that do, people often stay there for a while.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you might be in a situation where if you want to switch uh schools, it requires uplifting uh your your whole life, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Moving to another city, another state, maybe across the country.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you moved from Texas to Northern California.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it speaks to how much people want these jobs, but also when they're there, it it can be tough to deal with challenges because you don't have a lot of leverage.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's so true.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and such a there's there's such a disconnect in the changing of the profession, the changing of education, uh, our industry in general.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and those are sacrifices that you have to consider, you know.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: I ask myself, you know, people were so surprised when I left Texas.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I was very um, I was very quiet about it because I was very sad to leave my students, very sad to leave my alma mater.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I couldn't, I couldn't take the uh, I couldn't take however other people would feel about it, right?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I just left very quietly, just moved across the country.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh since then it's all been wonderful.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: And all of my former students, they'd see me at competitions and it's all love.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's a tough sacrifice.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but our roles as advocacy directors, even more so I think, than other professors, perhaps I'm biased, is we are in the wings of really helping people professionally develop.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've had students who um we deal with the hard stuff, discrimination at work, discrimination by judges.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how do you handle a boss who's harassing you?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we tend to get that, we're that thread from law school to helping you navigate the career.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I find my own experience mirroring where they're gonna be.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I look at my students and I say, I'm calling you from 15 years from now.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this I am your future, you know, and uh I I want to help you navigate it as best as possible.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: And my hope is that with Nayle, I can do the same.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I'm asking lots of questions, learning what people find interesting about it, um, or about the the the uh teaching of advocacy, what they want to see, how we can help people do it better.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because sometimes, you know, it's a different path.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Academia is a totally different path than the practice of law.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I want to make it easier for those who want to do that to get to do it and to help our students.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: You've only got two years, you know, you've only got so long with them before they're right out and we throw them out into the wild.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't like to waste that time and I don't like to squander it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I've had to make hard choices in my life to make sure I can do my work exactly as I am intended to do it.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about uh one of your colleagues.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, tell everybody who joined the school this year.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I have the pleasure of working with Simone Lighty, who is helping lead the program this year.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And who is Simone?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: Simone is a graduate of McGeorge.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: She is a two-time Top Gun advocate.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: She went her 2L year and she wanted her 3L year.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and she just represents uh that student who you know early on is meant to help lead a program.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I certainly didn't have the chops that Simone did when I was in law school, but in terms of demotion, she certainly uh reminds me of parts of myself in many ways.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So Simone went from coaching to a full-time role there.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is her current position at May George?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: She is a visiting professor and she's teaching a few classes.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she's helping run the mock trial team and uh host competitions and really is my right hand.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love when schools call it visiting professor because she was in Sacramento before.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: She's still in Sacramento.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure it's really a visit, uh, but I but I understand the title.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us something fun about Simone because every time I see her, she's upbeat, enthusiastic.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: She's got that uh the mentality of somebody who's new at this, and she's like, I just can't get enough.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, tell us something non-mock trial or trial ad related about Simone.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Harry Potter nerd, huge Harry Potter nerd.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: We share that.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um and she's getting married tomorrow.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: So at the time of this, she's not married, but she will be married.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but is a huge Harry Potter nerd and um has little things all around her office, little Funko pops and stuff.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: When I saw her at first chair, I asked her a question.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think I knew the answer before she before she gave it.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Are you getting are you doing your honeymoon uh right after the wedding in the middle of semester, or are you gonna wait till the end of the semester?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: And of course the answer is at the end of the semester, probably, probably at the end of competition season altogether.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: She's not gonna get uh get married in the middle of of tournament season.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I understand that her her fiance, soon to be husband, has a similar competition schedule.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and I think that's really probably if I had to give anyone a good marriage advice, it'd probably be find someone who has uh an equally challenging competition season schedule so that you can just take your vacations at an obscure time.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I I like that that's very specific advice.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Usually people say, you know, find somebody who's a good communicator.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you said find someone who has a similar competition schedule.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's very very niche marriage advice.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: We were leaving first chair, and the students said, So uh do you have everything you need for your wedding?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I haven't thought about that yet.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta get the competition.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about Nele.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when do you become president of Nele?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: One step at a time, Justin.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: One step at a time.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh over the summer, uh, you know, Liz Bowles and the rest of the team asked if I would um consider joining uh the board, the executive board as president-elect this year.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I gracefully said yes.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so gracious and excited to work with them.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna take it one year at a time.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then let's do this this first year.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh tell me about your your campaign for president.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what what were what were your what was your campaign slogan?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I to really to answer that question, I I want to go back to Eats June.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're all in Florida.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually asked Liz Bowles that question.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: I said, how did you how did you get on the board?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: She said, a moment of weakness and they got me.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think I would say the same, a moment of weakness and they got me.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, no, but for real, uh, when Liz reached out, I thought to myself, first answer was absolutely not.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then I thought everything that I've done in our advocacy world, it's because somebody saw it in me before I saw it in myself.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Going to South Texas, coming to McGeorge, uh, joining Nayle, joining Nita.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes people can see your gifts that you don't always necessarily see in yourself.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, so yeah, I I didn't have a campaign, but I'm excited to join and add some value to other programs and and help people do what they do better.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So in the interim, are you vice president?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if if Liz Bowles uh is is you know stuck writing uh larvae articles and unable to fulfill her job as president of Melee.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you get sworn in?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: How does that work?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: You can send all your complaints to me at that point.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: You can send all of your complaints to me.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: And if they're NTC related, I'm just going to send them straight over to Tim Adams so that everyone can beat him up.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I I would be the honorary uh punching bag if Liz Bowles was not around.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll pause the teasing on Nayle and ask you this.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: In less than a year, you will be president.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: What are your goals?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Concrete, tangible things you'd like to do during your term?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I want to get through what Liz's goals are first.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, it's to bring real value to my goal, I can tell you right now, is to bring new value to new members and new directors.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, at Eats this year, we had a ton of people who were first-time participants.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that says so much about the change of guard that's happening at a lot of schools.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um there are newer people who are getting roles as professors, new people who are getting roles as directors.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I see it like there's we all love the magical moment at competition where you get to see your students do the bright and shiny thing.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it takes so much work to get there.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how to build a program, how to deal with coaches effectively, how to train coaches up.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what are some of the back end things that we can do to help people run their program well, right?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like the moment of competition is the magical moment that there were so many hours that took in the background, whether it's competition hosting as someone who's bringing the learning experience.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm concerned about having um ballots that make sense, helping those who run competitions that maybe aren't as popular, how we can help them um have best practices in their competitions.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: I know there are a lot of student-run competitions that people run away from or stray from because we know that if it's not a Justin Bernstein competition, it's not gonna be run as well.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, flattery will get you everywhere.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Flattery will get you so far, but it's true.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's a there's an honest um conundrum that you you're you're faced with as a director when you look at your limited budget and you think, where am I gonna send my students?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you want to send them to a competition that you know is run well, that the case file is balanced, that there's gonna be judges.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope to take my time in Nayla and on the competition side, maybe help those who don't have competitions that have as well of a you know, running machine, make those competitions better to create more access.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Those who want to have their own intramural competitions, maybe your budget is more constrained and you need more opportunities, you know, um, alternatively uh creating some more social opportunities for us to just ask questions.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: So myself and the other vice presidents are testing right now what level of frequency we would want to have meetings where people can just log in and get advice, um, kind of have those brainstorming sessions like we have at the beginning of EATS in the mornings, where you can just kind of workshop issues.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's so many people who have helped me uh through running competitions or dealing with different things that have arisen.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so creating a space where people can do that more often at the right frequency and um create better learning opportunities for their students and maybe take some ease off of new directors is something I'm really focused on.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think it just helps.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to Nayle, I know you're really involved with Nita.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing with Nita these days?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: With Nita, I uh I had the pleasure of serving as faculty for so many cool programs, going to San Diego.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um just did some public service programs in Atlanta where we got to serve, I think, over 100 attorneys and offer totally free services to people across public interest.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's a public interest international program that I get the honor to serve as faculty for in November, and that's in South Africa, and it focuses on human rights and strategic litigation.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so I'm just Nita gives me the opportunity to explore where the things that we teach at the law school level, where they continue to grow, where we continue to have more need, how what we do makes sense in the grand scheme of practice.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I just love it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm having so much fun.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: One of the coolest things I think about you taking over as the next president of ETH next year, I know you don't want to get ahead of yourself, but when you're the next president, you'll be coming in with a background in moot and mock, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: You were the uh moot court appellate director at South Texas, you're now the trial director at McGeorge, and Nele covers both and ADR.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really know what alternative dispute resolution is, except I want the disputes because otherwise I've been on trials.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you have a really uh varied and deep background.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see those two groups, moot and mock, coming together under Nele?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you really see them as two separate things with different sets of goals?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think they share the same goals.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: They highlight different skills.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so where I see the value is um helping on the moot court side, doing the mock trial side is we're all developing trial, we're all developing skills that lawyers should have with their clients.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: The ability to answer questions, the ability to put on a case.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, where I see the value is in helping people create the system for someone to develop those skills.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't, I'm not the most skilled and experienced lawyer in the world.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that any of us are as good coaches.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: But as a good coach, you are imparting skills, learning how to be a good educator.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: So where I see my sweet spot in having done both is recognizing the form and the job that you need in Moot Court, some of those background skills and how those look different in each, but helping people build systems.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like every practitioner is coming in with their skills of how to be responsive, how to be compelling.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: But do you know how to get coaches?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know how to ensure that they stay?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know how to build out a good tryout system, not burn yourself out?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you've got a little budget, do you know how to create learning opportunities for your students?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, it's much more about the ecosystem of what advocacy is.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's skill development, which is one portion, then there is the program and your foundation.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: How do you make money for your program?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: How do you uh raise funds?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: How do you retain people?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: How do you get your alumni engaged and staying around?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: What is the identity of your school?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: And those are questions that I have learned to ask more, right?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: What is it that your goal is for your school?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, at Eats, I got to talk about breaking into academia, but that's an important question, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: As we all transition into these different parts of our careers as educators, do you know what kind of program you're getting into?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Does it align with you and can you drive those goals forward?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and does your school understand the difference?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Does your school want just championships and want the best of the best?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you have impact in the community that you're in, right?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think about where McGeorge is strategically placed, right?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Between here and LA, it's just farmland.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: There aren't a lot of accredited law schools.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's your goal?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: Is it to impact and make trial-ready attorneys?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then how do we create the system to do all of that?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: So my hope in Nayle is to help directors and help coaches have solid systems to have the magical moments of a great competition or to win a championship.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think people miss the administrative side.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I have the benefit of being raised by Haley Stenhouse.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: And anyone who has ever gotten an email from Haley knows that that woman is so methodical and so organized.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's she's really opened my mind and over the years, I think trained me to understand all of that background stuff has to be done well for your students to have a really good outcome in their competitions and for your coaches to appreciate it too.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want to ask you about one more thing.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if folks want to hear your voice even more after they listen to this episode, I understand they're soon gonna have a new way to do that uh on FM radio.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, uh, I'm working on a radio show.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: I will send the details out later.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we're still in the process of negotiating, figuring out the frequency.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I'm gonna have a five o'clock hour uh once a week uh here in Sacramento on FM radio, deciding and figuring out how to stream that online.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, Justin, I want to, I want to talk, I want to yap.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um the same way we teach students to translate complex ideas, I do seek to motivate students and and anybody uh to hear a different perspective.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I like laughing, I like to cuss a little, uh, I like to have fun, and uh, I miss radio.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I'm super excited to get back on air and you know, talk a little shit.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I love it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a little vague, so I wouldn't be doing my job.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask some follow-ups.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see if I can get some answers.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what is the name of your upcoming show?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I can't share that yet.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You said we, who are your co-hosts?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I have two co-hosts that are here in Sacramento.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one is an attorney, one is not.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I I'll I'll let us reveal ourselves later.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say is the topic of your upcoming show?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you know, I'm at the intersection of law, culture, politics, economics.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in all seriousness, uh, I think about my job, and this is not a question that you asked, but uh, this young man right here on this cover is is someone I'll be working with on the pod.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I think about my job as a professor, and I think about where I find myself now.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, wow, how did I get here?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: How did I, how did I end up in this role where um people can, it's so far from practicing law.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think about the role as a professor, particularly in the realm of advocacy, as one that also needs to continue to share and translate ideas.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I've got lots of those really dense topics that I seek to make fun, to make interesting, and to keep people uh awake and conscious to what is going on around us.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um at the five o'clock hour, which is my challenge, just like we tell students, can you say interesting?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: Can you say things in a way that people understand?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the translating that um I'm gonna try to do.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: You'll see.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when the unnamed podcast comes out, um, will there be an email on the listserv letting us all know?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this and this time, will you be the one sending it?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Woo boy.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know what?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: When I start my radio show, I will drop it in the listserv.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be happy to do that.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Dominique, thanks for coming back on.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's always good to chat.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Always good to chat.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me, Justin.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have to make a little surprise for you here, a guy who is uh not new to the podcast, been around a few times.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you've heard of him.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Jared Rosenblatt from Hopstra.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's an amazing surprise.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea from the calendar invite I sent.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Love him, Jared.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love him.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Here's Jared.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show, Hopstra is Jared Rosenblatt.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome here.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to have you on, Jared.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, before we started, I asked if you had anything to complain about.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you said no, which disappointed me.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said, well, could you complain about something?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then we clicked record.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you got?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: You said, would you rec complain about something?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, sure.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Great, let's go.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my complaint.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I got conned into buying these new eyeglasses.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the new eyeglasses turn, uh, they darken when you're outside.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: But my view is of the window.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when I stare at Zoom, it appears that I'm Stevie Wonder.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So now every time I do a zoom, I have to switch my freaking glasses so I don't look like an idiot.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty good.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: That is good.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's my complaint.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because we're getting older though, right?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: That it's it's just this is a separate eye thing, has nothing to do with aging, I'm assuming.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I went into the appointment not wanting these.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and now that you have them, you still don't want them.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want them anymore.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Jared, uh condolence in the glasses, but congrats on the start of the season.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have been excellent.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think even stronger than it might look on paper because you guys were fifth at first chair, just missed the break, fifth at Battle of the Experts, just missed the break.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this past weekend your team was a regional finalist, you lost two to one against a previously undefeated Drexel team.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so congrats on a great start to the fall.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's unfortunate we're not playing horseshoes or hand grenades because we are close and uh didn't really end up with anything.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: But the the students have have been great and their work over the summer uh is showing in their results.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you tell them, guys, it's not about the Gavel rankings, it's about improvement in education.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh twice a day.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are you forced to say that according to some like personal consent decree or some therapy goal or something?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've I've uh if you notice behind me are books on self-improvement.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: So um I see I see bubbles.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: All their heads are bobbling.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're shaking their head no.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I see yeses.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's affirmation myself.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I walk by, half for shaking yes and half for shaking no.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's the glasses.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: They don't like it.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're hosting Tournament of Champions next weekend.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: You volunteered to do it.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, volunteered is an interesting choice of words.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: I uh I was told that uh the winners were looking for alternative uh locations, and I was willing to do that.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a good opportunity to showcase the school.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're looking forward to have everybody on Long Island and eat some good Italian food and and have some good trials.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh speaking of the Italian food, I've heard from people who've been to your competitions in person.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've only been online, that you go to Borelli's, a great Italian restaurant.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what should I order?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this sort of like a family style situation?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me what I need to know because I'm gonna spend most of my time preparing for that meal.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: The answer is yes.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is it is a buffet, come hungry.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: They'll bring you whatever you want uh in addition to the buffet as well, if you let them know that uh you're friends with Frank.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the the the food's great.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's uh they put a hundred people in a room meant for 80.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it is warm.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is sweaty, but the food is delicious.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is Frank the owner or is he just a guy you know?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know Frank.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I don't know questions, okay?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just know him, right?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: You'll have to find out.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell by the the facial expression of the person you tell.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: But we're looking forward to having everybody.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be good.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of evaluators um signed up, and I hope they all attend.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna vote for you.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um all right, well, let's talk about Gavel rankings.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's new this year with the uh ranking system?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: So for the first time, we invited everybody in the community who was interested to vote.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we asked everyone to if they were willing to vote, um, that the only caveat is That we would share at some point the tournaments that they voted to be the ones that they prefer.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I I use that language, the ones that they prefer, because this year, rather than just say what's the tour toughest tournament to win, we offered three different options uh strength of field, quality of the tournament, and prestige.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: And based on those rankings of all of the tournaments held throughout the country, we compiled a list for which the formula we will not disclose because it wouldn't be Gavel rankings if we told you how we made it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and we're gonna unveil that soon.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: So did you notice anything different about the voting now that you've said some of the scores and names are gonna be public?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the name has always been public, but some of the scores or ranks associated with them will not be.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: So did you notice anything different about the way people voted?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or who voted?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we had 32 voters this year, um, which was obviously more than anyone that that we had previously.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we had invited uh, I think at one point 25 different voters.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 32 people voted.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some people who previously voted chose not to, whether they ignored my email, which happens often or for some other reason.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Did anybody try to vote twice?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh do you want to tell us that person's name?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: That assumes that it was only one.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to tell us their names?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: How about off-air?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, excellent.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just love it.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: This will be public.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll vote twice.
• 45:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: People are very forgetful.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Were there were their votes the same both both times they voted?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, they weren't.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay, it could be forgetfulness.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'll and I'll add this.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: You wouldn't be surprised either.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Spencer.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, I the only reason I know I wouldn't have voted twice is I would have deleted the email after I had dealt with it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think I did it twice uh myself.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Did Spencer vote once?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, nice.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I definitely did.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm looking at the list.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you did.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you did.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: You were the eighth voter.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was the eighth voter and the 12th and 16th.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Top 10 voter, top 10 talkie.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: What about the deep cut?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: What about the content of their votes?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Did you notice anything?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh more shenanigans, fewer shenanigans, different shenanigans?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about shenanigans.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, there's there's always shenanigans.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, vote vote the the tournament that is strongest in field, and some people choose like the six tournaments they compete in.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, whatever.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's gonna be public, so you can analyze it for yourself.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe people forgot.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's it there is some putting the jokes aside, there's some interesting data that I'm happy to share.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that when you vote by both strength, quality, and prestige, you see some interesting things.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we're gonna get to that, or we're gonna try to pry as much of that out of you as we can.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but remind me, it's been a bit since I was the eighth voter.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: What what were the categories you had on there?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: Strength of field, tournament quality, prestige.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, got it.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Three excellent categories.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're you're gonna release the full data soon, you said, but um wondering if we can get some teasers about which competitions the voters like the most?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Great question, Spencer.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Did I get I kind of executed fair, fair, you know, so so.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: So uh three tournaments were top ten in all.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, wait, can we can we guess?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Spencer.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is a great idea.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, can we stick our foot in our mouth?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Spencer, go ahead.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, Spencer, you go first.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, you go.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the three are?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I why would I do this?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, uh Med Legal, uh, Tournament of Champions.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not playing this game, sir.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: What do you got?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're the one who walks into this.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Med legal's in there.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's where it should be.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: After this, why don't you suggest uh to me what do you think are the three lowest?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Justin, go ahead.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Flash the pint.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Man, this guy prepped today, man.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Jeez.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: Go on, Jared.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry you were rudely interrupted.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Top 10 in all three, uh, Top Gun, Battle of the Experts, and Med Legal.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Congrats.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, no doubt.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Congrats.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one interesting caveat about both the 32 voters as well as the information that I have, the highest ranked tournament for quality of the tournament is the verdict.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Which hasn't which hasn't happened in years.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Legend.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats to you, Justin.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Will it return?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think now we've got to.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people have spoken, you know.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the outpouring of support.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, below, that that's really sweet.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess we've got to bring it back.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the people's champion.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we want more teasers.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Usually you'll join us at the end of the semester and announce the top teams of the fall.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, can we get a little sense of that uh now?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that you can share?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: You want some some Gavel updates as of now?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you got anything handy.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um Gavel rankings are up to date as of the moment.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh interesting, interesting data.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: 75 schools have competed once already.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's good.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's good fault.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Which is pretty good considering there's a majority of of the one plus events is AAJ or Tyler.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it'll be interesting to see if we get over that 190 number.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Chapman and Texas Southern, um, sleeper years so far.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Drexel and UCLA, not so sleeper years, but they're at the top of our points as of uh October 13th.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: We got something out of it.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: I will say this about the voting because we didn't talk about this, and um I know you guys always warn me to speak less, but I I wanted to point this out because I think it's interesting for a discussion.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thailand Nationals, as it relates to the 32 voters, number one in strength, top in prestige, 36th in quality.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how many?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's high 30s, 40s, 52.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: 52 voters, 52 competitions were voted.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: 52 competitions, or 53.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: 53 were voted.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: AAJ, you want to guess?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, okay.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Spencer.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm not so worried about if anybody.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm gonna go on a limb.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say they were higher in prestige and strength of field than they were in quality.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh third, third in strength of field, third in prestige, 37th in tournament quality.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we should have a uh a panel at eats about this, you know.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Jared, what do you make of that?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: What what what what do you make of the uh uh the difference in the scores for Tylen AJ?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: So high in in prestige and quality of field and lower in quality of competition.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think the 32 voters think the quality of that tournament is poor.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Analysis.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, maybe the most important part of Gavel is when you get to needle Adam Schlahead about his TCPR.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say TCPR rankings, but that's like ATM machine, it's just TCPR.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you previously purchased Adamshlahead.com and it redirects to your Gavel website.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you have any new humiliations for Adam?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I want I'm gonna I'm gonna let the community know on a little secret.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have been on GoDaddy recently.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Watch yourself.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I have not purchased these, so they are available.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's making a market right now.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but I have looked at the following and I haven't purchased them.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: Are you interested?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool idea.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: I own adamslaw.com.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: Available.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is it i own adamslawhead.com or iownslaatamslawhead.com.com.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, I own adamslot.com.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because the second one is true right now.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: You do own adamslawhead.com, then you could have the.com.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just I didn't look that one up, but I assume that one is also available.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, go on.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I also have considered purchasing fordomrankings.com.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh third, uh tcprsucks.com, also available.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the fourth one, which uh I also pondered was gavelisbetter.com, also available.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I I want to add this about website name purchasing.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have contacted lawyers regarding the issues that I've discussed, and there is a reason why I haven't uh played the following video.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um gotta check our insurance here.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hold on.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason why I haven't played the following video.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Let me get it back up, because if I publish this uh on adamshlot.com, my lawyers are concerned.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, just do it here then.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you gotta get the audio going.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta do redo it by uh and choose share the audio too when you screen share.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will say, whatever this is, it looks like an obvious parody to me.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely legally protected parody.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I didn't I didn't I didn't think for a second that was Adam.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't work?
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, we we saw the video, but we couldn't see the audio.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't share the audio, I don't think you couldn't hear the audio, right?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably better with the audio, you know.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: The audio that definitely isn't Adam.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, obviously.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: No reason no reasonable viewer or listener could think that that was Adam.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Check out Gavel Rankings.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, here you go.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: We get we okay, here we go.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: And where to find the real deal with the rankings that actually make sense.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Check out Gavel Rankings.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: Go to Gavel Rankings for the best rankings, the best deal regulator.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where to find the real deal, yeah.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: That that slendered bearded man from New York looks nothing like Adam, but it's uh reminiscent, so therefore I get the joke.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can see it's obviously a joke, it's just a joke.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I have thought about it's fabulous making that the fabulous.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I have thought about making that the landing page of Adamshlott.com, but my lawyers are concerned.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Here's another piece of advice.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Who are your lawyers?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: I can't disclose that.
• 54:01
  unknown: Okay.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I will say this one thing I also learned, Spencer, you you need to go to GoDaddy because Spencerpalkey.com available.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was almost the owner of it yesterday.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think we can see uh your litigation strategy here.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're like picking on the uh former public defender, turned school teacher Adam Schlawhead.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Picking on the guy who works at a plaintiff's law firm, unwise.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Smart.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Does that mean Justin Bernstein.com is owned by Justin Bernstein?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know who owns it, but it's okay.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm flattered that you checked mine first.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Both both buy checked both.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you did check both.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: I can buy Justin Bernstein from a website uh agent for at a minimum$100.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, speaking of purchasing, um, you know, we we noticed, Jared, and we want your take on this.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we we noticed that the law school podcast ranking site that we'd been, you know, ranked number four on moved just to unranked because they decided to become pay-to-play and we're not gonna pay to play.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: So on that note, can schools pay you to move up in the Gavel rankings?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are you for sale?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, how much do you charge?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um did you ever watch wrestling as a kid?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, little Ted DiBiasa used to say everybody's got a price.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so my super pack would collect the money, um, but Jared Rosenblatt.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: Jared Rosenblatt would not.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid that your super pack is gonna say something about Adam Schlott.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: My super pack is Adam Schlott is is my lawyer.com.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh oh.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, where where are we ranked among law school podcasts um in Gabble?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Number one.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, baby.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Number one.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, Spencer.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and number two is scripteddirect.com.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: That never got off the ground.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Those guys suck.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's like a tribute band that that is is almost beating us.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Jared, I'm looking forward to seeing you in New York next week.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to seeing both of you.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Great talking, Jared.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Spencer, is it just me or is Jared Mellowing?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, actually, it's what's interesting.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that, you know, if you look at the arc of Jared on the podcast, because that's how I view him on the podcast.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um you view him where everyone else can hear him.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say like he was like an eight or a nine, you know, for a couple of years there.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then he kind of he did kind of fall to like a a little bit.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: An eight or a nine out of what?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Out of five?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Out of ten, you know.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it did, he did drop off.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know that's you know, uh the effects of time or growing family and that kind of stuff, to like a uh, you know, five or six.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I I feel like it kind of kicked it up a little bit here, actually.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like a I'll give it a seven, which maybe a good place for him to be, you know.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's doing great.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's still got his fastball.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: He he doesn't throw it as often, but he's still got the fastball.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the beauty of being a seven, you know, you still got that nine if you had to, but you can also roll with the five, you know?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's the headline.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Spencer says Jared's a seven.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder what he'd say about him.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, well, no, given where he lived.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Give him where he lives.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can we call him a New York seven?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's a California four and a New York seven.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, back when he had character, he was at least a New York eight.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Love you.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we turned to our mailbag, which has three mailbag questions this week.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: The first is about judging assignments, and it comes from anonymous listener, AJBDL from San Antonio.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: AJBDL writes, suppose you're hosting a tournament with two simultaneous final rounds.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think Tyler or AJ Regionals.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have eight judges.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you assign three to one room and five to the other?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you divide them four and four and have one ballot not count each room?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Spencer, what do you do?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, have we answered this question before?
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I feel like we have.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I said before.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think how I'm feeling right now is if I can vote again, uh, is I think I'd probably go four and four.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just because I don't like the feeling of just a bare three people in in an out round.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it, you know, that way both teams are gonna have the same number of folks um, you know, scoring.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what I would say, with uh, you know, removing the least experienced person.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: How about you?
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's a clear right answer, but that's a wrong answer.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're just you're just deciding to throw out 25% of your ballots when you could throw out zero percent of your ballots.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that online I might feel a little differently because you might lose connection, right?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody might might leave.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: But in person, that basically doesn't happen.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd be comfortable saying three in one room, five in the other.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like we're hurting the room with three, right?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: They were gonna have three ballots anyway.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you can make sure it's the same three ballots, but we're using less of the data and using less of people's actual time.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I would go three and five.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I I tease when I said I think it's clear cut.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: I understand the argument for for four because that gives you insurance in case somebody has something happens or that you know uh there's some sort of conflict.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I go three and five.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't like the optics of you get three and you get five.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh I hope that I hope that the non-answer is helpful for AJ B D L.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, whoever he or she is.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or the whatever, you know, whatever we got.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, AJ B D L, we we could just that's that's a long anonymous name.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just shorten it to AJ.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's way easier.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: Our second mailbag question comes from anonymous listener LL.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: LL asks, how many of your mailbag questions come from actual listeners?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's a ridiculous question, all of them.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's offensive.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: All of them.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, LL must be a longtime listener or something.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ridiculous.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Our final mailbag question comes from anonymous listener, Judge CW.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: It could be anybody.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Judge CW is in Houston.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um is it at Houston?
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Unclear.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: What tournament, Judge CW asks, serves the best food, Spencer.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Think about this.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard for you because you don't go to tournaments, and when you do, you don't care about the food.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's both arms, right?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Other than that, you other than that, you're a qualified witness.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of bobbing for apples at that point.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um you have you neither have the facts nor data nor expertise.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I should I'm ready though.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Go on.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna just go with Top Gun uh because I always get barbecue down there.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um now, is that you know oftentimes it is served at the tournament.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I might be, you know, I might have left by that point, but um I I often get barbecue with friends down there.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm going with.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Justin, what is your answer to the question?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna give an obnoxious long answer.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's hard because we don't go to most tournaments, right?
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: Most most people don't go to most tournaments.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: So of the ones I've been to, uh I'm I'm I can't count med legal or Jared's competition because I haven't yet had Borelli's.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited about it.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, do you know Frank?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm about to, yeah.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope you don't you might not want to know him, know him, but like you know him, you know what I mean?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh yeah, we'll get to know each other.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh over some chicken parm.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think the best meal consistently at tournaments, and I I realize this is self-serving, but I think the coach's dinner at Amicus at Stakeout is pretty, pretty tough to beat.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: Strong, strong.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty tough to beat, but that's individual meal.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: So of like full tournaments, uh, I'm gonna name four tournaments I think consistently have great food.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Did you think about this at all ahead of the time by chance?
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's all I thought about.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, okay.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's all I thought about.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious, only curious.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh NCTC, great food.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they have a nice opening banquet with some charcuterie, uh, solid box lunches.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you go to the judge's room after the round starts, they always have leftover snacks, and the judges' food is great.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: They get good donuts or bagels or coffee, and then they've got really good sandwiches for lunch.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm told by people who snuck in there.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, they have a nice banquet.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you my sneaky favorite at NCTC.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after the break from the semis to the finals, uh they serve Mendocino Farms and they have way more food than they need.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're always like, Oh, this is only for the finalists.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: They could serve every tournament's finalist from across the country, and and they'd still have leftovers.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they always get the couscous and just a vat of it.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I have so much of it.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep sneaking back.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the sandwiches, I mean it when we get we get eliminated in the semis, my kids think, oh, he's crying because we lost.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm crying because I don't get the food.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm not disappointed in you.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just hungry.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hungry, exactly.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Top Gun, great food.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they they they feed you at every opportunity, so you got a nice welcome dinner.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they've got open bar and pizza at the end.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: They got a barbecue on Friday night.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Always enjoy the barbecue.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think the sausage is really good.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and I have, you know, I always say I'm not gonna have the pie, but then I have two.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's delicious.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just always feeding me through at the tournament.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think their best food is probably their breakfasts.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: They have really nice uh warm breakfasts um during the tournament.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's I'm a big fan, and flash.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you guys have the opening banquet at the restaurant, another closing banquet at a restaurant.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Those are both yummy.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you hold it at Jams where you bring in catered lunches, they're really good.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the the sneaky best part is Jams has all the snacks, the high-end snacks for the lawyers who are paying the same prices to be at Jams.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like free snacks, free kombucha, beer, sparkling water, like all that stuff in the lobby, and it's unlimited.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, apply, apply in the spring, folks.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can apply right after you listen to you can actually apply anytime if you want to.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to plug cause of action.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe try it again.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: Spencer, don't interrupt me when I'm trying to plug cause of action.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: Nailed it.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: So all those uh tournaments have great food, but prove me wrong, folks.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: Give us even better food at your competition.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: A challenge to the to the audience.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great idea.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: What what is the likelihood I'm gonna get a call from Phil being like, how could you not name battle?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: Very high, very high.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe lower now that you said that.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh all right.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have nothing else to say.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh good luck to everybody competing this week, including at Gold Cup in Sacramento.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck, folks.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Unscripted Direct is a production of Justin and Spencer.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're mixed and edited by these damn chaps.
• 1:03:44
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• 1:03:52
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• 1:03:56
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• 1:04:00
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