Latest / Pod Therapy / #412: Hiring a Dominatrix, Giving Kids Alcohol, Discouraged Doctoral Student

Transcript

#412: Hiring a Dominatrix, Giving Kids Alcohol, Discouraged Doctoral Student · Pod Therapy

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Don't you worry, buddy.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Through the miracle of technology, you will have delivered that
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: joke correctly and.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I a lot of.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Bron fabulous Las Vegas amount. This is pot Therapy, real people,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: real problems, and real therapists. You can submit your questions
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: anonymously pot therapy dot map or email us a pot
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Therapy guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Poo Poop pe Pe Poo Poo Studio.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: That's Jim.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: That's went me on next time Spot Therapy. This one
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: bothers me more than the other ones do. Yeah, this
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: one makes me uncomfortable.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the new low that our show has
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: gotten to.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Uh so, any of you listening, you can name the studio,
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: go to patreon dot com slash therapy and sign up
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: to for you jot can and.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Should know it's it's really not worth time. I don't
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: think you should do it. Don't think it's needed.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Nick, we are Oh I had to say, Nick, you
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: mentioned Alanis Morris.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I haven't just saying fucking it up.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: My neighbor went to her concert and tell me how
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: random this is. She hears this voice behind her that
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: sounds familiar and like at the end of the show,
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: or maybe I don't know if she has gons that.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: She turns around and it's her her ex sister in law,
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: her ex husband's sisters are all behind her, like the
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: row behind her. They bought their tickets separately. She just
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: showed up at Alas and your ex husband and sisters
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: are all right behind you. I'm like, what are the
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: fucking odds?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Did she like her husband sisters?
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: They did, but when they split, they like yeah, So
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: she was like you guys, Yeah. The sisters were like,
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: we believe our brother. Who's a piece of ship.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Ye do you do you finish the concert or you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: just leave?
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: You paid for the concert? Trying to be like I leave,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: you leave? Yeah, that because honestly, I'm not going to
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: enjoy the show. Yeah, because the whole time I'm just
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: going to be You don't doot.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: Move where it's full. A lot of us is popular.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: There's there's spots I don't know, but I didn't see
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: for those spots. Oh he's that guy? Are you the guy?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: If you go to a sports game, you won't move
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: up a few roads. You'll you'll stay in your back
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: a cheap seat. There's nobody ahead is sitting and road
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: double in. Yeah, in front of him, obscured view and everything.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: He's not moving because the ticket says this seat. That's hilarious.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Probably No, I'm just gonna vouch this is one truth.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: He's not.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: This is exactly who I don't.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Because if I move and then those people show up, yeah,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I feel stupid.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, this is who Nick is.
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: If you could just give a quick story, if somebody's like,
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: who is Nick, Like, let me, He's the guy that
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: does doesn't change seats.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: And here's the thing. If I show up at a
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: concert or sporting events, someone's in my seats, I'm like, Oh,
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: they tried. I don't care. I'm just like, oh, these
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: are my seats. And it's like, oh yeah, sorry, Like
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: I know they tried that, and I'm like it didn't work.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: I'm like, you're an idiot or.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Something, or they don't like push back or whatever.
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: You're in my seat, shot your shot or whatever.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Airplane, I've done that so many times.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: You book an aisle seat or whatever, the whole row
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: ends up being available. Will you move over to the
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: window or are you still standing on vice versa, whichever
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: you prefer. You move seats on an airplane and the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: other seats are not purchased. No, I'll move Okay, there
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: you'll you'll put Then what if someone shows up and says,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: sor this is my seat? Halfway through the flight, somebody
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: comes out of the bathroom.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: They were like, I was sitting back there with my friends,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: but this is my Here's the thing. Wouldn't happen because
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I asked the flight attempt at first?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes, permission, yes, Nick Tanjman revolutionary. I
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: would argue even then, in our in our scenario, with
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: having your your ex's siblings behind you, I would say,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: even dead, like you could go to the usher. It'd
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: be like, my exes siblings are sitting behind me, please
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: move me. Can you put me anywhere else?
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: So option d seduce and have sex with your exes
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: sisters right Like? That's honestly, I think you should. Honestly,
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: that's the high road.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, she might. That bitch stole your mini bar.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I owe you this.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: When I looked back, there were only one set of
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: footprints because you were my sister. Happy Thanksgiving listeners are
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Thanksgiving special. It sounds a lot like all the other episodes.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: This one's turned out different. That's a whole different holiday
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: with just that's Columbus. That's Columbus Day, colonizing asshole.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: You ignorant slush. They're not going to get two days, Whitney.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: They're all dead, horm Wow, they're all.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Dead, and we are Jacob believes women but not Indigenous speakers.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure they weren't using this land. I believe.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I believe I was definitely actively using this land. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: we're murdered. I'm sure they all just took a vacation.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: We're not wiped out by Clegg.
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: We are also about a month away from getting to
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: our season finale.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Uh and our.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: Coveted p amd duel is coming up again. Wouldn't fight
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: Pudden' fight?
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Are two return strikes it?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think we agreed on tapioca and for
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: some reason that changed.
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: The PhD is coming back up, and it's Any's game,
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: so we gotta we've got to start constructing either jeopardy
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: or a trivia challenge. I'm sure our discord server will
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: do that. I want to know what I get this year.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: You defend the belts.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: That is the purpose of a Everybody else gets something
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: if they win so you just decline he's not gonna
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: put it on the lobby.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: I always wondered about that. Like in boxing, if you
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: win the heavyweight, I feel like, can you just like
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: I got it? Like challengers come out like I want
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: to fight you for this belt, just like I'm.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Good, not gonna do it. I'm good. So what advantage
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: in my living room? Bitch? Oh, I lose a little
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: bit of respect. I don't care belt in my house.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: You can't have it? All right, Well, we have a
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: month to talk about it, though. I have a suggestion. Oh,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: here it is. I have a suggestion. Okay, uh.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And I want to preface this by saying I would
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: take this this and I would take very good care
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I might even lock it away, okay, somewhere just to
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: make sure that it was cared for so and everyone
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: would know the location and and it was just that
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: it was just perfectly fine.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I think if I win this year, I think Jim
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: has to give me his wedding ring.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Oh Jesus Christ to give it to me.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And if and if indoor win this were to happen,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think he can explain it to his wife
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: until she notices that it's gone and asks about it,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: and I think, like the role has to be I
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: have to try to lie at least twice, like alternative explanations.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: I see how long it lasts.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Don't you know what? I think?
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: What would be really interesting? We should run this experiment
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: once I, once I finally.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Do get married.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have I have my wedding band. Let's just
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: all exchange rings and see how long it? See how
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: long it's.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: That's the one that's gonna Yeah.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can do. I can do maybe a pinky
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: ring and I simon pinky ring.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: There we go.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: I'll do the wedding ring thing. But you also have
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: to take my wife. That's I'm not gonna. I mean
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: for how long and definitely one year. That's the rules
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: of our contest. You get the title, you can get
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: the jewelry traveling belt.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You keep winning.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Jim's wife every night just packing her bag. She's like, god,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: damn it, Like I have ships to do at the house.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I gotta go live with Jacob. It's a nice house.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: You like it, Okay, So if I so, if I
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: win this year, I get to not only retain the doctorate.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I get Jim's wedding ring, which I will hold on
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to dearly until keep and it will be taken care of.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I'll put it in the safe. You know, it'll be
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: be perfectly safe. It will not it will not be pawned.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: I get to be single. I think when Jim can't
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: explain it to his Jim doesn't.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I don't think Jim has to lie. I don't think
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: he has to make up a story. I think he
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: just has to wait until she broaches the top. Okay,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: as soon as she broaches the topic, he can. He
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: is then allowed to explain the whole thing. You see, honey,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: it was for the podcast. It was really fun explain
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: it or just change the subject. There.
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: There were like tens of likes and this, I mean,
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: we are talking.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: I don't understand it.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: So we're agreed. Go yourself. There's no reason we can't
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: be democratic and voting. Oh yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Let's be a people our government that way.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: There are there are four of us, so there's a
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: chance that we could tie. So I think to be.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Fair the tie tie, Jim gets to be the type Okay,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: goes to the runner goes to whatever Jim voted for.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: So let's let's go ahead and vote all in favor. Okay, Well,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: since it's an audio show, nobody put up their hands.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly I won.
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: I said, I all right, We've got some great questions
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: to help you get through your thanks Giving, and we're
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: leading off the order today with a fun family one.
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: So if you're sitting with your kids, turn the radio
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: all the way up. Hiring a dominatrix how doy.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Podres Yes, I am available, Mental fit Dominatrix services.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Drink is a hot nineteen year old.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hiring a dominatrix Howdy pod Therapists.
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: Earlier this year, I was diagnosed with pre diabetes. I
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: had never put any effort into my health as an adult,
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: and as a result, found myself severely obese and depressed.
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: This was the final straw, and I got serious about
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: correcting this to avoid actual diabetes through diet and exercise.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: I am now down almost eighty pounds this year, which
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: that's huge. Some of the things I didn't anticipate were
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: how this drastic change would impact my mental health and
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: the other chemical changes that would come with it. Somewhere
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: around three months into this, I came to the realization
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: that I have a submissive personality. Combine this with the
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: overpowering libido I began to experience, and I found myself
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: looking into BDSM. It was always an interest of mine,
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: but more so just the content I chose to consume.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: I never thought I was able or allowed to participate
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: in such activities. I expressed these feelings to my wife
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: and she kindly tried to accommodate. After maybe a month
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: of this, she expressed to me she couldn't keep this
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: up and that she was uninterested in being dominant over me.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: She's her own person and I'm not going to make
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: her or ask her to do things she doesn't want
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: to do. This left me in a position with this
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: burning desire and no outlet. I talked to her about
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: ways I could engage in BDSM outside of our marriage,
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: and that was a pretty hard no from her. I
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: accepted this and tried.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: To move on.
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: During this time, I was hard. During this time, I
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: was also in therapy to try and explore why I
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: was feeling submissive and trying to cope with the societal
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: pressure to act a certain way as a man. Through this,
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: it also came out that outside of BDSM interests, I
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: was losing interest in my relationship with my wife. I
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: would find out that the feeling was mutual. This found
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: us in couples therapy to try and work things out.
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: During our first or second session, my submission came up.
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: We discussed it, and afterward my wife gave me the
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: green light to seek out a professional dominatrix. I would
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: be lying if I said I wasn't ecstatic, but in
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: my mind, I had bigger priorities, primarily my relationship with
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: my wife and helping her to work on her self care.
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: Couples counseling continues, and so does my individual therapy. I'm
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: at a point where I'm stressed daily and feel like
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: my sexual needs aren't being met. My therapist says, I
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: need to push the dominatrix idea out of my head
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: for now and focus on my relationship. It's been a
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: couple of months of focusing, and I feel like the
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: stress of is getting to me. I feel like I'm
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: overflowing with a need to find an outlet and somewhere
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: that I can escape for an hour or two.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: So what do y'all think? Is this something I.
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: Should consider pursuing actively my wife would be fully aware
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: or do I need to put my deviance behind me
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: until the waters are totally clear in all other aspects,
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: this feels like Mom told me no, so I'm asking Dad,
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: but any input would be greatly a non e Moose, Okay,
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: that's an interesting question. Yeah, So here's I honestly kind
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: of like every part of it. Yeah, And I like
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: ann A Moose's thoughtfulness.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: And I really like this email. I'm very ethical.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's a thing that sticks out to me, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: I'm interested to hear what you all have to say
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: on this. The the wife saying no, absolutely not. This
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: is a non starter, non negotiable, and then changing to okay,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: we can try it.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: And I want to a therapy professional. I wonder if
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: that's an aspect, because if you're hiring a professional difference, Yes,
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: I wonder if that's part of it. Is like, hey,
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: I don't want you forming a real relationship with another person,
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: but like I don't like yeah question.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: But kind of what makes.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: What this makes me think of is like she's now
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: at that point where it's like, Okay, yeah, maybe we
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: can try this, But then I think it's a whole
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: different thing when it actually happens, right, Yeah, you know,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: and maybe she's kind of I don't know if if
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: I was in this position, if I was in Younani
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Mus's position, I would really hesitate on following through with
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that only because or at least go into it with
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: the understanding that, yeah, she's saying she's cool with it
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: or willing to go along with it, but then when
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: it actually happens, right, she may feel a completely different
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: way about it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And yeah, not necessarily a truck.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: Like you open it, you don't know what's going to
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: happen next.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And and the fact that she was very against
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: it from the start and then kind of warmed up
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: to it. Now it's possible that it could happen and
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: everything goes well, it's like, okay, cool, and then we
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: worked that out. Yes, it was a professional. Maybe she
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: doesn't feel quite as threatened because she knows nothing's going
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: to happen with us.
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: Right, Or maybe she's actually changed every time, because it
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: sounds like their marriage has really mentally changed.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And there was also the talking with the therapist and
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: everything in there too. I was honestly kind of assuming
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: there had been talk because Ananymus said that there was
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a talk of the of the submission everything with the therapist,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: and my assumption I could be I could easily be wrong,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: was that they had all kind of talked and the
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: wife had kind of opened up to it a little
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: more through that discussion. Yeah, and I get that, And
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I think even though the wife has opened up to it,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I think again, once it actually happens.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's all different. And I think that that's all
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: different once it's real, no matter what.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Once it Yeah, yeah, talking about something versus actually acting
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: acting it out. I would just if you do go
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: down that road, just be aware that you don't know
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: what the outcome is going to be, and you have
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: to be able to accept that outcome. She could very
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: easily just be like, you know what, I was wrong.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: I am not as okay with this I thought, And
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: now we have to do it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: I can't look at you the same.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a real possible.
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: Well, and this is an interesting thing too, because it's
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: kind of like the whole having a kid to save
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: the marriage kind of thing. Like when your marriage is
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: really rocky, a lot of people start thinking, Okay, we're
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: not doing well, we're struggling we're in a couple's therapy.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: Let's try some big idea, right, Like, let's open up
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: the marriage, let's become swingers, let's let's do some big,
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: drastic thing. And I think a lot of times I'm
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: not surprised that Anonymus's counselor was sort of like, maybe
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: do work on the home front, my man, because like
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: sometimes people want to do those big things to save it.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: And it's like I'm usually as a counselor, my preference is,
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: if you're going to do this new thing, I want
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: you to do it from a position of strength. I
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: would rather I don't want it it possible, like Nick,
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: you were saying, it's possible this thing has a back
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: you know effect, an echo effect on your marriage. If
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: you're going to open up your marriage or do something different,
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: I like that to happen from a position of we're
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: really strong right now, really healthy, right now, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: we can sustain whatever injuries might come from this.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Let's shore up the let's shore up the damn Yeah. First, yeah,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: let's make sure everything is in really good working order,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: right and like have a nice running start at this thing. Yeah,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: and that and that way, like if you know if
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: we if we fall flat on our face a little bit,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: maybe we at least have a little bit.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: Of momentum where the counselor is coming from on this. Yeah,
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: but like Anonymous seems to be telling us as authentically
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: as I think the writer can. I crave this. It
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: is important to me. I am being transparent. I am
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: telling everybody that needs to know, I am talking through it.
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: But like the way Anonymous sees this sexual need seems
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: to be like it's this welling up urgency thing, and
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: it's like it's more than just a hobby or an
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: itch that needs to be scratched. It seems like he's
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: kind of portraying it as like is this proper for
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: me to shove this down and not express it? And
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: it feels like it needs to be expressed. And I
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: don't know, I don't know how I feel about that.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: It's an interesting kind of way to portray it.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I man, My instinct, like hearing the letter read
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: out loud, is that you deserve to be able to
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: explore that. Now, whether it's from that place of strength
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: like Jimmy mentioned and Jacob you supported like, hey, let's
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: strengthen our relationship. I'm sure the your therapist is thinking
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: that too, But also I kind of wonder if how
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: can you strengthen your relationship if you're feeling like that
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: some sort of need and I whether it be sexual
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: or not, just the feeling of being dominated. It sounds
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: like maybe the writer's saying more than like like I'm
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: trying to have sex with other people, right Like I
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: I guess I just think that that deserves to have
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: its moment. But I like what Nick said, like going
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: into it, like, Okay, I do think this is important.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: I do think maybe there's room to start exploring this
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: even while you're working on your relationship, but be aware
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: that there could be consequences from that, and we don't
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: we don't you may not be able to backtrack. So
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: but I don't know if you like really want this,
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: I want to move forward. This is something you've realized
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: once you're in your marriage. That's like a whole other topic,
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: being married to someone and discovering something new.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: Like when Peter and I, you know, because we were
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: dating since we were very young, and I never really
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: had a desire to have kids, but everyone you have
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: one of the house and I do have a child
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: at my house right enough.
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: It's interesting also the authorities listening if we were looking
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: into it. We're conducting an internal pot therapy investigation. It's
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: been referred to HR. Our plan is just to keep
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: her here.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Episode. We're also not even recording anything.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Our microphone is not I'm texting the detective as you're
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: still here.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: I think he's in a car right now.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I ask questions.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Also hashtags save Peter detectives if you can't.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: It, get him out to that man.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: He's lying whatever he.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Said us about how you and Peter became.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: But this was like a really big shift. When we
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: were dating before we got married, It's like, okay, do
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: we want kids or not? And we don't know that
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: because then people would tell me, oh, when you're thirty,
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: you'll change, Like I heard that all the time as
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: a woman, and I was like, well, I've never been thirty.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: What if that happens? And are we going to divorce then?
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Because like, I don't want to be divorced. That was
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: my thing. I'm like, I don't want that. So we
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: had to come to a compromise with that. But it
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: you don't know sometimes and that brings up a whole
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: other issue, like if things change or shift and it's
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: not something you expected, Like we did not talk about
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: what if one of us wants to be dominated later
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: on in our life, like what do we do? Then?
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: That was not a topic of discussion.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, really, yeah.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: Save Peter for real, because we haven't talked about it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: He's closer when Jacob.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Save Peter takes on a whole new meeting.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, now we know that Whitney's got to strap on
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and she chasm an the house.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Over here.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Seriously, we need to say, yeah, jump in the cart.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Jesus. Those scratches happened naturally. Okay, he fell.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: But I do appreciate the fact that the writer first
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: approached this.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: With the wife handled it.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, maybe you know, this isn't something I want
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: to do outside of the relationship. I'd prefer to do
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: it in the relationship, and that'd be cool. So I
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: like the fact that you started.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: With that and the wife tried, yeah, yeah, you're good
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: for you.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: You have a partner that was like, let me, and.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: She's also authentically realized I can't do this anymore. That's
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: not for me, which I think when you bring up
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: such a good point of the catch twenty two of that,
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: where it's like people do change over time. Like, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: we've all been married a really long time. You were
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: not who we are in your twenty that we were
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: in year one, So you've changes a person. And like
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: if your partner changes over time and realizes something about
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: themselves are whatever, or authentically reaches a conclusion that they're like, hey,
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: I want to have this kind of sexual experience, that
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: is an interesting dynamic for the couple to say, Okay,
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: well that's pretty authentic, but that that does that's not
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: the agreement. Well, the agreement happened when I was twenty,
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: you know, so like I need you to make Yeah,
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: the stution should be able to be amended here, like
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: otherwise divorce is the only option, right, and like I
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: don't want that.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: I had an uncle that used to say that, He's like,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: every ten years a marriage contract should be able to
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: be renewed, and it was like, huh.
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: I actually thought it'd be cool if you had to
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: go get your marriage license renewed.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like and every time you had to sit down and.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Talk about the relationship and like, is this something you
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: want to do? Is this something I want to do.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: Okay, we're going to renew it and they can just
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: expire and then we you don't have to get a
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: divorce because like, well we just let that one lapse, didn't.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Change the stake.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: We could just have it where the government doesn't involve
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: itself in marriages.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: Oh rara, Yeah, okay, there's no fun in that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: So how are we going to help this dude get dominated?
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: Do we have a Patreon tier for this? Can we
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: just sell it? I mean, I don't want Tom working
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: with a strain Nick rorking with this trusted podcast therapists,
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: right when we all just take turns.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, we just kind of like tag in. It's fine,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: but the four of us have our own unique style. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: So I've been working on my forearm.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: You know, I feel like that that whip motion going,
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: so I probably get some licks in there.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it. He said. I feel like I'm
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: you know, telling dad behind mom's back or whatever.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, because your therapist already said I know you
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: really well, I'm very aware of the situation.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I don't think you should do this. And so now
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: he's writing to his internet therapists. He's like guys, what
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: do you think do you know what about? I think
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you should listen to the first one.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I know you know what though, and maybe there's probably
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: more to it than this, but my instinct there is
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: like the therapist is like, just stick with this for now.
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: You're not really giving your client coping skills to manage
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: until like how do I manage these sexual desires until then?
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: Like what's maybe somewhere in between? You know? I love
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Esther Perel for like all the unique like couples therapies
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: she's done, but she goes into a lot of like
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: how to dabble in certain things without like upsetting your partners.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: So for example, someone's like, oh I want to I
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: want to be desired again. So instead of like going
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: out on the town behind your partners back and like
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: you know, hooking up with someone at a bar, she's like,
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: why don't you both go out to dinner and like
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: you get to watch your person flirt with the waiter waitress.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: Like like she just talks about different ways to like
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: keep it honest, like we all know what's going on here,
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: we're all consensual, but like that still might get your
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: fix without it being that's hiding things.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe the wife could be a part of it, but
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the dominatrix is doing it, but wife is in the cupchair.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the cut chare is there for a reason.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Sure is a sacred place. Not ruling out guys the cut.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: In your marriage counselor say my therapist tell me this.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Specifically, what are your thoughts on chairs?
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: It doesn't matter.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I know we're joking, but what if, like I don't know.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm like, that was a legitimate I feel
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: like we're forty joking okay, but like if if she.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Had a role to play in it somehow, but maybe
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: it wasn't directly doing it herself, right.
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: I definitely like the idea of wife somehow involved. If
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: wife can stand to be I'm gonna.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Say, that's a that's a big like going from absolutely
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: not to let's talk to a professional. Yeah, from like
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: that's a big step for wife. Yeah, yeah, going from
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: absolutely not to being a full participant. Yeah, it seems
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: like that's that seems like a real big ask. This
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: is a really good, complex question though, right, I Mean,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: at some point, don't you have to.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Order your priorities? Oh yeah, so what is so?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: What is the top priority is the marriage to the
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: top priority, or is exploring this sexual desira top priority?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is tough.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm I mean I feel like a
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: lot you might be asking a deeper question than you think.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: And like a lot of I think the current culture
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: in America is I think this find your true self,
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: never deny yourself, and that narrative I think is sexy
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: and fun and relatable, and it also doesn't honor the
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: tried and true, steady, day to day reality of Hey,
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: you have this partnership and like you formed it and
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: you have a life together, and like, be careful, don't
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: don't necessarily risk that for some enlightenment. And I don't know,
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: but then there is this authenticity component too.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think that when you mentioned your wife
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: working on self care, I almost wonder because I do
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: think this is really valid in relationships. The more you
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: kind of pour into your wife right now literally that
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: I was like, wait for it, there is. The more
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: you pour into her right now and help her get
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: to a good place and trusting in your relationship, I
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: think that will lead to you being able to do
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: more as well and still have your wife, you know.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: So I think maybe.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: If you want both.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if you want you.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Want both, that's probably the only path.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah that I would that I would say, I agree, Yeah.
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the writer talking about having this overflowing
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: need to find an outlet where I can escape for
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: an hour or two.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Escape is interesting word.
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it just it is an interesting thing because like
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: I get into a little bit of a slip space
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: where if somebody told me because like we work in addictions,
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: and like it can feel like you have an overwhelming
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: need to use meth and like that's authentic, and it's
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: like this is a part of my life.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Why is this being shamed? Like why can't it? And
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: it's like because there are major consequences for this action,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: and like you can live without meth, You'll be okay.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And so like sometimes I think I slip into that
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: thinking where I could be guilty of disqualifying somebody's needs
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: and the legitimacy of those needs, because I'm like, hey,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: you'll be fine, Like you're not gonna be wilt and
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: die because you didn't, you know, get slapped around by
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: this dominatrix. Like you you are making this big in
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: your head and there's a magnification that's causing you to
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: obsess over it and over esteem and believe this is
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: going to deliver you my relationships to where they're like,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: if only I could cheat, if only I could And
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: then they do, and then you talk to them and
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: you're like, so you finally fulfilled that fantasy that you
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: were convinced you needed to do.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: How was it?
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: And they're like, well, it's not what I thought it was.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I thought it was everything.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like okay, yeah, I had a really cool minute
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: and then afterward I realized, oh I didn't Jesus marathon. Yeah,
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: was going that long, jool This is a person twenty
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: This is a tough one well writer. You know, I
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: think that we're trying to just give you every layer
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: of feedback. I mean, I think we generally like to
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: defer to the counselor on the ground. So I don't
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: think any of us are like, yep, here's your hall pass.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: We officially gave you the pod therapy hall pass, which
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: we should sell in the store by the way, the
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: pod Therapy hall pass.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: That'd be pretty not the stupidest thing we've ever sold.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: It's not.
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: We've tried other things. This is not the worst. So
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: I don't think that we're supporting that. I think that
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: we're a green with you that this is something that
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: ought not to just be abandoned. You know, you shouldn't
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: just have to shove this down and like, you know,
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: go away. I would hope we continue to try to
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: navigate this with your spouse, with your counselor. But I
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: do if you're standing on rickety ground, now is not
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: the time to add a new floor, you know. So like,
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: I don't know, man, I really like the idea of
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: you reinvesting in your relationship as much as you can
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: and just continuing to move forward with a lot of
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: honesty and listen to your counselor, you know, unless you
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: feel like your counselor just doesn't get it.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: But I don't know, I hope that you do. I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: wonder if the wife has any suggestions.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well the wives gave the green light, so she's like,
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: you can do the interesting He's just saying like, well,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: I feel like my therapist told me not to. And
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: that might be what's highlighting it too, is that I
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: think Jim as well as like, yeah, sometimes when someone
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: tells you no, you're like, now, I just want to
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: do it. More.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: My thought on that too is like, you know, even
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: if the wife said yes, even if you were really
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: open and expressed your anxiety about it, like, hey, I
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: want to do this right, but I am worried that
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: you're going to kind of retract or that once this
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: happens that you're you're gonna feel differently. And even like
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: if you wanted some sort of guarantee from your wife,
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: it's not really fair, right, because there's no way give
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: you that exactly. You know, She's like she's walking into
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: a room and it could be filled with ice cream
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: or a lion. She doesn't have no idea, you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: until you actually get in there, so.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Both could be equally damaging to your ships. Yeah, am
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I right? You got it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You nailed it, nail anyway, writer, good luck with this one.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I'm really interested to hear what our Discord has to
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: say about this. Every episode that we air turns into
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: a specific channel on our Discord where listeners will kind
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: of like all listen to it kind of around the
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: same time, and then they'll all chime in and kind
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of discuss questions and give feedback and sometimes post extra
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: resources in case the writers are actually stumble into the discord.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: This is one that I'd be really interested to hear
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: what the discord has to say. Oh yeah, so this
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: would be a nuanced one. But writer, I think we all,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: as we said right away when we read your letter,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: we sure do like how you're handling it so far.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: You know, you've not done anything that can't be undone.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I think you've been very careful not to over prioritize
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: self over the relationship. But at the same time, you
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: want to honor where you're at and you're feeling overwhelmed,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and you know that's another thing too, is like making
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: sure you fully explore all other coping skills as well,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: because like sexual outlets is one coping skill, but if
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: you're feeling stressed in life and you're feeling overwhelmed, there
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: may be other things that you should look into. Have
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: you tried meth You know, there's pod therapy brought to
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: you by methamphetam.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: That's what we should sell on the store. You go,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: this is a.
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: Hall pass was a dumb one. Let's this is way better.
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: We're gonna make so much money. Wouldn't he just walked
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: in we're selling Yeah, we're gonna start selling meth at
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: the pod Therapy bait shop. And you know what, let's
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: get a new website, pod Therapy Meth Lab.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Honestly, honestly, you know, I always look for opportunities that
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: other people haven't thought of. Uh huh yeah, this is
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the move math over the internet. Oh yeah, why is
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: no one doing this?
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: We could be like the eats of myth. I've got
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: terrible news. Now we buy an RV, we drive out
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: to the desert. We're going to take a quick break,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: and when we come back, we're talking about a friend
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: who gave her fifteen year old child and friends alcohol.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: You are listening to pod Therapy. Today's episode has brought
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: to you by Jake Schneider, Milo, Leah, Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Thunder,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: moder Falcons, Motherfucker, Sanderman, Lena Gabriel, Adam Warren, Bga Dukes,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Crimes and blip blah. And if you would like to
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: response to the show, if you come at therapia dot
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: com slash therapy. All right, trivia this week that I
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: thought long and hard about Thanksgiving, Oh well that seems
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: top gobble It does gobbledy. It's like I just came
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: up like five minutes ago.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Some of these. I think we've actually asked some of
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: these questions before, But here we go. H Witney. We'll
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: start with you true true US president first proclaimed Thanksgiving
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: a national holiday. Wow? Two on the fly? One multiple trucks,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus, Yeah, Thomas Jefferson. Finally answer for two?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: No?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: All right, which way are we going with it?
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: To?
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Jake? Oh, I would like options? Man like you from
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the hip, George W.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Washington Abraham W also stands for Washington, James Madison or
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: uses s Grant? Oh, I like, I like Madison, but
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: that feels it feels Grant feel.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Idiots.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: All right, I would like for options. So it's it's Washington.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I would like to eliminate too. So I got Washington, Madison?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: And what was the third one? Lincoln and Branch.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: Yes, what's got to be early? Probably not going to
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: be Washington. So let's let's go with uh, it's pretty early.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't get much earlier than old g dubs
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: give me Madison.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: No point for Nick. It was Abraham Lincoln.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: Wow, we should have known.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: It really was our best president.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: That's republic, all right, Jacob, what year did the Macy's
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Thanksgiving Day Parade take place.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: The first was the first year.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: That was like last year, every most of them.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, I want options. I was like, wouldn't amazing if
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I just knew that day?
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: I was trying to think of when the movie was made,
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: Uh Miracle on thirty four stream, Like, well, the Macy's
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: Day Parade.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Was the day?
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: Isn't that I say that I thanks Thanksgiving?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Nineteen fourteen, nineteen twenty, nineteen twenty four, or nineteen twenty eight. Shit,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: it's in the room.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: All those are earlier than I.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Capitalism came to its true form. I think it was
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: around the Great Depression. I think it was. I'll say
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: nineteen twenty. That wasn't the Great Depression? Great Depression started
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: in twenties. I'm sorry twenty nine, right, but I'm saying
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: leading into the Great Depression. Well, i'll take away the
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: man's answer. Okay, no, you're wrong. Great, I'm sorry. What
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: did you say twenty wrong? All right, great, you'll take
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the later end, which I think twenty eight was on there. Yes,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: i'll take twenty eight wrong. Shito Whitney, don't let Nick
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: get this.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: It was nineteen and twenty.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Four were the other uh weeteen fourteen nineteen twenty.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: Four, boy, is this a truck question? Is it going
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: to be fourteen?
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I know what a dick move. Probably it is probably
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: gonna be fourteen. I letna say fourteen points for Nick
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Wow nineteen twenty four. Witney out theaked herself.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: I did. He's in my head?
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: All right, Jim. This question we've had before. We probably
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: had this exact same trivia question a year ago. To me,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: what was the first balloon character in the Macy's Thanksgiving
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Day for Oh Ships? Let me go to from the
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: oh fuck? It probably is. I need options now. I
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: was gonna say Snoopy.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Options Mickey Mouse, Oh, Felix the Cat, Popeye or Snoopy?
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: No fuck you put that one in. It wasn't in there.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Show me the screen. You've done this to me. I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: can't If I say.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: The answer is to keep my chest, it's going to
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: change my.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Changes your new options. Give me Felix the Cat.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I gotta scroll down. I believe it is. I'm pretty
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: sure it is. Let me double check it is Felix. Yes, okay,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: So that's one point one zero for Wetneys, zero for Jacob.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And all right off second place all right, friend, I'm
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: just very angry that Nick didn't tell him that it
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: was snoopy.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Just to just throw me under.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: My friend gave her fifteen year old child and the
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: friend's alcohol. My friend provided alcohol her fifteen year old
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: daughter and some of her friends. My daughter has been
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: playing volleyball for many years and has become close friends
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: with many of her teammates over time. I've also become
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: good friends with several of their mothers, one of whom
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: is actually one of my dearest friends. Recently, I learned
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: that this friend has been providing alcohol to her daughter
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: and some of the girls on the volleyball team. I
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: feel very conflicted about this. On one hand, I understand
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: that experimenting with drinking can sometimes be part of growing up. However,
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: the way I was raised was very different. If we drank, smoke,
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: or got in trouble, we'd lose privileges like having a
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: car in college. My brothers and I took those roles seriously,
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: and as a result, I never partied, and all three
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: of us drove away in cars when we left for college.
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: This friend, however, seems to enable her daughter's behavior and
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: acts more like a friend than a parent. I'm struggling
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: with whether I should say something to her, perhaps let
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: her know what I've heard, or if I should stay
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: out of it and accept that this might just be
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: part of how some families handle teenage behavior. I love
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: my friend. I don't want to sacrifice our friendship. I
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: also let my daughter know she is never allowed over
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: to my friend's home if there is a huge gathering
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: of teens. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've been
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: listening to your podcast for years, and I'm truly grateful
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: that Whitney is now.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: On the cast of Therapist. She is obviously the most
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: sane one.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: Oh my god.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: As for the other three, I can't put into words.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: As for the other three, Oh as for the other three,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I can't put into words what I think of you
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: other than damn. That was a burn, poor gem Sincerely.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Am I an overreacting mother or just a bit who wants.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: To call others out? You can be That's right. Both.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: You are welcome, Whitney, since you're the thought. Yeah, because I'm.
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: Taking Jim just put his feet up anymore.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I don't care at all.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Who's gym. This is so interesting. I feel like this
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: is something that and I don't know, we all have
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: like kind of different backgrounds.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: Were you allowed to drink as a teenager because he
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: stole cars?
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think the real.
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: Strict my mom did not give a fuck. So and
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: I love my mom, but here's she's adorable. But here's
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: the thing, my oh my god, I just had way
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: too many memories. Okay, So when I was growing up,
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: my mom didn't like give us alcohol. She was like, hey,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: girls want to drink, here's like you know and mean girls.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: She's like bringing the I'm the cool mom.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: She never pushed it, but it was always like, if
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: you want to, it's here, Like there's wine coolers or zema.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: It was usually those. Mostly my mom was drinking those
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: and she wasn't good. I don't should the energy to
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: like fight to parent to that level, to be honest.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: But so for me, what happened was I had the
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: opposite or not opposite, but I had the same experience
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: that the writer had where I didn't drink. I literally
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: the first time I was drunk, I was like months
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: away from my twenty first birthday at Peter's house. So yeah,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: it was yeah, I got it, but I was and
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry. Yeah, I said drunk, But like I had
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: had tips of things. I tried stuff, but I had
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: friends in high school that'd be like, oh, buy your alcohol,
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: just drink with us tonight, and I was just like,
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: I had no interest in it. It just because it
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: wasn't taboo or I don't know, And some of it
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: was probably a little bit like Nick, you know where
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't want to get in trouble or whatever.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: But I already felony.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: When I was thirteen. Is still there walking.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Around with this bracelet on my ankle. I don't feel
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: like I should do.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: My probation officer is gonna kill me. But so for me,
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: it just was like taken away. Now, other people like
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: to come to my house because my mom didn't care.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: So I had friends over and stuff like that, but
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: she was not She wasn't there observing encouraging, like it
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: was played out more as like, oh, if you girls
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: drink or whatever, then it is what it is.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: You should ocasually come in and do some body shots.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, depends on he was over. So it's interesting
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: because as I watch my friend's parent teenagers, now I
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: see more I see more of a mix of either
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: what your friend writer is doing where they're like almost
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: trying to be their kid's friend and be like, look,
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: it's not a big deal. You can just drink. But
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: I don't think that is the best way because you're
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: not taking taboo away. You're encouraging now, and so I
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: don't think that's great. I think that encourages some really
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: poor habits for and you guys can attest to like
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: the addiction side of that for the future, and I
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: actually lean more into what your instincts tell you to
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: talk to your friend about it, and you don't have
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: to be a bitch about it. If I'm imagining, because
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: I've had friends who chose to do things that I
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: think are inherently very wrong, like not seat belting in
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: their children. Things like that that are like if something
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: happened and I knew about that, I couldn't live with
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: myself the rest of my life. I don't know.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: If they get in a car accident and the first
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: responders are trying to get the child out of the
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: dangerous wrecked car, maybe your friend is thinking the seat
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: belt will impair the first responders getting ahead of the
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: problem child and pull them out of the car.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: It's a lot better without the seat belt because then
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: the the EMTs can just help the kid on the
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: sidewalk where land.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Of glass off of his face. Child propelled is a car.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Accident, the child don't break.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I applaud the d for not being judgmental like Whitney,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: it's a real like.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: An high brows stance on seat belt.
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: But take your parents' car when you're thirteen. It's fine,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: But no, there are hard conversations when you're like, god,
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: this is like I'm telling someone how to parent their kid,
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: is how it feels, or like what's the limit? When
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: I know, like my friend themselves, they aren't wearing seatbelt,
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: Like it's just a hard thing. So what I encouraging,
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: what I've had to do in the past is like, hey,
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: I love you, I adore you, we are really good friends.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: This one thing it's really bothering me, Like I'm worried
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: about your child, and they can take that however they want.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: You are not responsible for their feelings and their emotions
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: when it comes to children's safety, and fifteen year olds
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: are children still, like you have every right to step
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: in and say your piece, and she might be upset
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: with you. You can tell her that if you're upset
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: with me, that's okay, maybe allow those to those feelings
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: to exist, or if you're hurt by this, then that's fine.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: But I need to tell you that this is not
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: okay with me. This I don't I don't think this
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: is gonna be good long term.
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: You are much nicer than me, because I am fucking
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: furious reading this letter, Like if I allowed my daughter
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: or my son over to your fucking house and you
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: are doing this shit, Like if I heard about this
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: just as a rumor, I would be calling every other
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: parent on the volleyball team. Are you fucking aware that
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: this happens?
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Like who the fuck do you think you are?
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: That you can have more of an allegiance with these
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: children who we entrust it to your house to have
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: care of them. You don't have a fucking like, Oh
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: but I'm the cool parenter.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: It's no big deal.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: You don't get to fucking make that decision for my child.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Fuck you, Like it's absolutely inappropriate that you're allowing these
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: other kids over to your house, Like take away the
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: question of like the ethics of giving kids alcohol, letting
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: them experiment with it? Fine, that that is my choice, though,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: And when you take that choice away and then you
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: deliberately hide that that you're doing that from all the
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: other parents, no, dude, fuck you, Like I want there'd
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: be consequences for you. I want the rest of us
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: to fucking get our kids out of there.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: If you're the cool mom who talks to other moms
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: and they're they're aware, Hey, the girls are they asked
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: if they could drink? I have some drinks. I will
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: watch over them. Are you cool with that?
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: All right? Then fine?
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: Then everybody's informed consent on this, And like, that's a
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: different conversation about like is this a good thing or not?
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: I am bothered that my friend does this, But if
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: everybody else supports it, then should I just shut the
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: fuck up and stay out of it. Yeah, that's a
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: different conversation. But if you are a stakeholding parent in
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: this volleyball team and you're aware that other children are
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: being offered something, probably without their parents understanding your permission,
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: I think you have a moral obligation to not fuck
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: confronting her. I think you need to tell the other parents.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: And make her answer for this be like, dude, what
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: the fuck are you doing?
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: But I think talking to her too and helping her
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: understand because if you take a stance, it's like super confrontational.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: And I've seen this happen with friends of mine who
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: had friends' parents who were like, yeah, well we just
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: do that, just stop going over there, and they still
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: let their kids drink, and then other kids are over
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: their drinks like they're just like fuck you then. So
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: it's like it's kind of reaching out to say like, hey,
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: this is a big deal, but yes, you can be
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: very pissed. I I don't have kids, but I would
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: be pissed too. I think if I if my four
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: year old at my house right now, is that someone's
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: house dream?
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when like Jacob baby sits my kids? Yeah, you know,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I never come back.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I completely hung over.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: They think, you know, they come like it's weird.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: It's like it's all like Skunk's you know, it's like
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: a lot of a lot of different things.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: But they're they're happy. They're really happy.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: Though care of them.
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: And it's crazy because last time, what did you do
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: at Uncle Jacob's house? And it's nothing, you know, I
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: guess they never really do anything, you know, they're like,
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: what did you guys?
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: Do, but nothing we just played out.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Don't worry about it.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird, just.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: So the so there's one component here, which is just
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: one parent affecting not only their kids but other people's kids. Okay,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: so let's just remove that from the equation. We've we've
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: addressed that piece. How do you feel about if it
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: was just this parent allowing her own kids to drink?
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: What are your takes on? Right?
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: Like, like, let's detach these kids. Oh, the parent is
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: allowing her own children to Yes, the parents making a
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: decision for their kid, we're all.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: Says even and your son's fifteen and he's like, can
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: I have a glass of Are you?
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Are you allowing that as a parent the only parents
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: in the room, Yes, I am.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Do you would you a Whitney would probably be aware
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: you don't any illegitimate children.
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: You don't know that I didn't donate my eggs.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, got really drunk one night. There was
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: that year and a half that she just doesn't remember
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: I went to a special place.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Just do you mean that scar isn't from getting a kidney?
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Was a big kidney. It's very big kid. Do you
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: allow the front? Yeah?
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: And she also lactates a lot that was weird. Do
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: you allow you never brought it up your kids? It's
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: a really damp Would you allow your kids just go
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: over there? Is that the question?
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: I think?
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: How do you feel about underage drinking? Underage drinking parents
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: their kids?
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: So coming from an addictions background, I don't love it,
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: like I just I've seen a lot of research that
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: says it's probably not a great thing if it can
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: be avoided. I think the neurodevelopment of the kids it's
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: usually going to it could open up some doors that
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: you didn't need to try, like and they will be
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: just fine without it, and like giving them this coping
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: skill or like the socializing like thing. I don't love
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: it in kids' lives, so like I consider it like
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: parents in malpractice. I think we all came from a generation.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Where it was very normalized coming up, Like my cousins,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: My aunt and uncle did that.
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: They let My cousin was two years older me, so
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: walking out with him all the time. His friends are
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: my friends, and they always were like, it's open bar
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: at our house, Like that's totally fine.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: What age do you think is is okay? Is it
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: twenty one or is it like eighteen or what are you.
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: I've seen research that says you probably stay off of
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: it till you're about twenty five, and so that frontal
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: cortex finish is developing.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: But so, and this is my thought because my views
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: have changed on this as I learned more about brain development. Okay,
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: because like I remember my girlfriend in high school, her
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: parents allowed them to drink. So her brother was always
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: like he was I think a year younger than me,
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: and he was always drinking. And their philosophy, I remember,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: was just like, well, we know he's going to do it,
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: do it here, so we may as well like allow
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: him to do it. And he's very good about like
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: if he gets drunk and not driving, he'll give us
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: a call and we'll pick him up blah blah blah
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: blah blah whatever, which is nothing.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a responsibility exactly, not nothing.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: So they are kind of teaching him that, right. And
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: then I also remember another friend of mine in high
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: school who I bumped in to later on in college,
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: and we were talking and he drank through high school
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: and then it's like one of those things that happens
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: when the kids through high school. He was a mess
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: like that didn't drink in high school, go off to college,
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: and they get drunk for the first time and just
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: like completely overdo it. And and his argument was like, well,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: I drank through high school, so I knew kind of
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: how to handle inoculation. Argument was inoculated. It was just
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: kind of like I didn't It didn't get crazy or out.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Of control or anything.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: So It's like, at the time that kind of made
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: sense to me too. But as I've learned more about
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: evidence that would support that. Yeah, but as I've gotten
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: older and gone through you know, college education, learning about
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: brain development. Yeah, the thing that bothers me isn't really
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: the responsibility aspect or they're going to do it anyway,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: may as well do it where we can supervise it.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: The thing that bothers me most is really they're just
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: the brain development because yeah, because those years are incredibly important,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: the late adolescent years. This is where your brain goes
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: through synaptic pruning. Right, So for those of you who
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: need to look that up and looking at Jacob would look.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: About it what you want to.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: So basically synaptic pruning essentially, like anytime we've we've used
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: this saying before, but like neurons that fire together get
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: wired together.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: So it's how our brain learns.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Right, So it starts making all of these connections. Well,
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: at some point, it gets to this point where your
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: brain has so many connections that it's no longer running efficiently.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: So then what it does is.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: It does what's called synaptic pruning, where it goes in
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: and it starts cutting the connections that aren't being utilized.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So this is why it's a lot easier to learn
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: a second language as a child than it is as
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: an adult, right, because that pathway has been formed already.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I have looked it up and Nick's explanation of it
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: was excellent.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: That's all I want. Okay, it's all I need.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: The process of eliminating weak or unused synaptic connection to
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: make neural circuits more efficient.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Here you go, there you go. Okay, I done taking
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: myself five points for that, oh, fifteen, fifteen points for
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: so far. Fifteen.
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: So I was a new brain to substances that are
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: psychoactive probably, yeah, hibbits that process.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, And this is my issue too, Like because I
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: used to run an adolescent treatment program and so parents
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: would come in all the time and they would just
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: be like you know, uh, yeah, we caught him. He
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: was doing cocaine with some friends and they're like, I
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: know he smokes weed, but I'm fine with that. I
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: don't really care an issue because they were like, it's
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: legal now, and I'm like, it's not legal for a.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Fifteen year old.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: Fifteen years old, it's.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Not legal, right, And I would explain, like there's a
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: reason why they set age limits for this style. They
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: didn't just come up with twenty one just randomly, Like
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I don't like the way twenty feels one, right, yeah,
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: Like there's a reason for that number, you know, and
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: it has to do with brain development.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: So it just that part bothers me.
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I think that, I mean fleshing out all
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: the different details on this.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Look.
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: I don't think you have to sabotage your friendship. I
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: think that was smart of you to get ahead of
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: this with your daughter and set an expectation with her
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: that says, hey, just so you know where I stand,
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: I am not okay with this as you are man
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: telling me right, and like, yeah, thank you. But this
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: also puts the mom in a weird position, right, because like,
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: if my kid tells me, hey, don't overreact, dad. But like,
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: I've heard this is true. Now, if I go blow
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: up the other mom or lead a freaking mutiny on
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: the volleyball team, I've outed my daughter, right, and that
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: could that could harm our relationship where she's like, dude,
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: I told you that in confidence. Now you've created it.
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: You've disincentivized me from being truthful in the future. And
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: that's that's a hard situation, right, But like, and I
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: could see a parent being like, all right, look, I'm
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: an honor the secrecy my daughter's given me here. I'm
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: going to stay the fuck out of it, and I'm
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: just gonna mind my child. But part of me goes,
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry. The supersedes are agreement of privacy.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: These are children.
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: These are fifteen year olds drinking daughter, mom, And like,
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: I don't know what goes on at your house. I
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: don't know, you know, if these kids are drunk or whatever,
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: Like bad things fucking happen adults around, you know, drunk
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: teenage girls probably not a fucking great idea. So yeah, no,
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: for me, I would be blowing whistles on this. At
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: a minimum, I would call my friend and say, look,
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: I heard this is what's up? Is that what's up, Like,
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: how do you guys run your policy here at this house?
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: And friend's probably going to be very open about it.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, especially if you're curious at first, like what
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: is that?
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: I'd probably be like, yo, I really want to talk
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: to you about this, Like here's why. I rationally think
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: that's a really bad idea. You are committing a crime,
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: and I don't think that are the other parents aware?
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: And if all the parents like, you know, we're cool
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: that you're a square gym like okay, great, that it's
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: not my fucking business anymore. So I would definitely talk
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: to the friend about it.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Also, this is a really important lesson that your daughter
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: needs to learn about you. Yeah that if she comes
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: up to you with dad, don't freak out. She needs
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: to know yeah.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: You're going to freak out. Yeah well yeah, dad was
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: always going to forget.
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: But like it's a teachable moment for the relationship with
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: a child too, to be like, look, I'm going to
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: tell you why I'm going to do what I'm gonna do.
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: I'm not calling the cops necessarily, but like I am
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: going to go have a direct conversation with this honey.
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: And here's the reason why because you are children, and
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: if we if I ignore this, it's pretending that you're not,
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: and it's giving you the impression that you guys aren't
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: and you are children and like you do need to
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: be parented.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: And my reaction to this does not mean that you
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: didn't do the right thing right.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. I'm still proud of you. But sometimes doing
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: the right thing requires reactions. There is still a consequence
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: to that. I'm also a mandated reporter, so like me,
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: just knowing that is like, yeah, I don't know what
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: I'm I can't just fucking ignore that. So, Jacob, you've
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: been conspicuously quiet over there. No, I'm just listening because
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: I saw you out in front of the gas station
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: earlier and those teenage kids asked you to run inside.
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: They gave you like twenty bucks. Yeah, I mean you
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: came out with that twelve pack of course bucks.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw you. Put it.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: Anyway, I have a friend in high school who is
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: one of those moles who the police or have her
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: stand outside and ask people for to buy her alcohol
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: and then when they say yes, they would go a bull.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: I hate that movie. Yeah, I know, that's bull. That's
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: a bullshit. Move you yourself.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: No, I mean I'm sitting over here thinking about the
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: conversation to have with the other parent, right, I think
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: everybody agrees that, you know, a conversation seems warranted. Here's
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: the thing, like, you know what your daughter told you
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: better than we do. Obviously, if you if your daughter
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: is saying like, hey, uh, the mom over there is
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: letting if they come over that she's letting the kids
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: have a couple of drinks. Yeah, if it's a wine
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: cooler or two. I'm not minimizing anything. I'm just saying, like,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: you know, you know what the report was more than
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: we do. Uh. So, I mean, use your use your
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: judgment on that. If you wanted to broach the topic
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: with the other parent and perhaps not go when with
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: a full throated rebuke of it, you could definitely just say, hey, uh,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: this is something that my that my daughter told me about. Uh,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: and you'll first you'll confirm that it's true to do
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: all of those things. Uh, You'll get the get the
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: story from the from the other parent, and then you
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: can absolutely have a conversation with the other parent from
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: the perspective of just your kid. Right, you can definitely
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: have the conversation of like, hey, just so you know,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: if my daughter.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Is at your house, don't give her she is not
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: allowed to do this.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: And uh I I and and you can you can
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: have that conversation any direction you want to have. You
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: can have that conversation of, like, if you give my
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: daughter alcohol, I will call the police. You know, you can.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: You can go that direction. You can go the direction
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: of I'm willing to trust you with my daughter's safety.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: So if you're telling me that you're not going to
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: give my daughter alcohol, I will choose to believe that
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: you're not going that you're going to honor our friendship.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: You can you can have that conversation any direction you
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: want to have it.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: But that perhaps that's a way to broach the topic
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: with the other parent that isn't just full on hell
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: iron brimstone.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: That's probably wise.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: And uh and you know, maybe maybe take Gym's rhetoric
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: and dial it back.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know, twenty three points.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: Usually that's the move out of ten yea, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: just settle, settle, write the fuck down, and don't say
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: things like mandated reporter right yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes people.
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: I like your advice. I think that's spot on. Starting
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: from a position of curiosity. This is a genuine friend
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: of yours. You do love this woman, and so calling
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: her and saying, hey, I heard about this.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: What's the deal with that? Talk to me? Yeah, what
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: what are you doing over there? Tell me about it?
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Go for a position of neutral. Uh no, I always
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: go for a position of believing women.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Oh there it is. Oh yeah.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: When there's so many different women saying different things, though, you.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Gotta believe them all. Joe, Okay, that's the move. Okay,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: got it.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: It's like Pokemon. Okay, you gotta believe them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: that's fine. Don't worry about the contradictions, like, yeah, no.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: I just like contradiction.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: It's a hashtag joke, right, I'm sorry hashtag. There's no contradictions, Whitney.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry about that.
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: And I believe you.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I just want you to know this is a safe place.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: And so also, you know.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Are you going to are you the one the one
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: giving these kids come over to anti Whitney's house. Whitney's
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: just standing outside of gas station, ask a dude, the buyer,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: buyer liquor, and the cops just keep walking up, but
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: we did not ask you to do this. Also, nobody's
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: mistaking you for under twenty one, even with the pigtail.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Drugs panhandle.
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for somebody.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: I'm the victim here, I was helping. I'm a vigilante.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: We are going to take a quick break and when
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: we come back, we're going to talk about a discouraged
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: doctoral candidate. You're listening to pod Therapy Thanksgiving edition today.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by Nick Schneider, Leader
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Macy's Sunny Voice under Cooper Falkin, Scoots, Motherfucker, Sandra mcwaffle,
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Elena ambrill A Dominie, Adam n b A Crimes and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: Flip Block.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Would you like to sponsor the show? Become a producer
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: dot comsh therapy.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: All right, So the score stands at I'm in a
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: courageous with.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: One that's not the lead. You're in second place with one.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: To the narrator, Yes, nobody wants him to win.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: I'm the people's champion. There's at least one person in
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: here that does. Okay, Whitney, which US state produces the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: most turkeys annually?
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, buzz state? Obviously the US state that is
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: a country turkey.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: They produce chicken.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I always get that confused. It's like Iceland and Greenland.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Which one's nice?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: Oh man, I feel like it's gonna be like South
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: Dakota or something. I want options for this one.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: North Carolina, Minnesota, Arkansas or Iowa. Oh boy, it's too
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: cold in Minnesota for turkeys. That can't be a thing. Well,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: I guess if they're in cages, which they probably are, Carolina.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Are fine in the winter. I don't think they're free range.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: You said North Carolina.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: North Carolina is one I'm gonna choose. I like that answer.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: No, it's almost never the first option.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: I'll take Arkansas. No good.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: That was gonna be my second one.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: So that was I'm down to Minnesota and what Iowa?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: You know which one it is?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Which point?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: If Iowa was the place where turkeys come from, we
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: would never hear the fun I think.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: You might be honest here.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: We've been so focused on porn and he's sittings.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: We know about fucking. We would be aware, we would know.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Give me Minnesota, Minnesota. That was solid logic.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: Lately wrong on the winter part a winter, Yeah, that's
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: turkey season is in the in the fall hunting.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: Season, think of birds except penguins.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: All right, let's see who's up. Ja Jacob Jacob Sarah
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Joseph Hale. Josepha Hale, who campaigned for turkey Jesus Christ,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: who campaigned for Thanksgiving to become a national holiday, also
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: wrote which famous nursery rhyme? She campaigned for Thanksgiving to
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: become a holiday, and she wrote this famous nursery rhyme.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think these two have anything to do with Thanksgiving?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Man, Why why do you assume that I need options?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: The author of Little Miss Muffett, Yes, I would like
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: to Humpty Dumpty.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Mary had a little lamb Jack and jail or Bob
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Bob black sheep.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: It's just shot in the dark with this.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, none of those are things. I always do
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: the Humpty dance at Thanksgiving? Okay, very I will take
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Humpty Dumpty.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: He's very traditional.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: Sorry, the traditional Humpty dance? No, okay, Nick, I said,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: the traditional one, yeah, not the new new one, the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: perversion of the original.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Right right, all right, so Humpty dumptyes off the table.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: I keep Humpty's message pure.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: I'm a fundamentalist, all right, evangelizing give me Bob Bob
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: black sheep.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: No, what was a because I'm going to tell you.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: He is humpty dumpty.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: It's never a or Jack and Jill, Jack and Jill
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: umm Jack and Jill.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Uh noes. Wow, damn black sheep.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: Okay sheep, So no, it wasn't black sheep because I
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 5: guess that one.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: Was Mary the other sheep one.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't, I don't see sheep color. Jim. Oh,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: we're still doing this.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're still doing this. In which US state is
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: the Butterball Turkey hotline?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, give me this one. Kentucky, Juno, Alaska? Yeah?
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Is it Illinois? Is it Minnesota, Arkansas or Missouri?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it would stand to reason that it
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: would be Minnesota. So all right, seems like but I
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: feel like a call center.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: It's just it's the headquarters. So a call center you
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: don't necessarily want that.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: Where the Turkey taxes you just.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: Want, Yeah, you want favorable tax laws. Think I'm staying
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 5: some liberal ass place.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: Minnes has good talk.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: I'll bet you they don't. It's a liberal state. They're
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: taxing those people.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: To get to the reason my dad moved away. That's right,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: it is Honestly, they moved away because of the and
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: they were vocal about it.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: It's very clear.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: But business tax laws are whole different. I thought the
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: bit you were saying was my dad left our family
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: because of the tax laws, Like I have to go
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: live in this other I've always suspected.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: I get it having a family that I'm not gonna.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: You guys can live here.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: But I make the money on those days, all right,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: So I'm scratching Minnesota off was one of them, Arkansas
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: was one of them.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Was Arkansas A right, give me Arkansas. That's cheap labor.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: They had bad tax laws too, Minnesota, Arkansas? What were
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: the other two?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Illinois and Missouri. With Missouri, I like Missouri.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Minnesota No is really good at he just line, you know, like,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: don't we don't check these.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Because I know you guys don't care enough to check.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: I care a lot.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: Discouraged doctoral candidate, Hey, pod therapy crew, I'm writing in
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: today for what seems like such a stupid thing but
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 5: is hurting my heart. I'm a doctoral candidate in Counseling,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: Education and Supervision, and I'm currently in my dissertation. The
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: way my program is set up we take dissertation seminar
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: one semester to write chapter two the Literature Review Advanced Research,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: the next semester to write chapters one and three, introduction
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: and statistics, and then it's typically two more semesters to
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: get i RB approval, run the study and analyze the results,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: then finally defend. With the guidance of my entire committee,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: we planned that I would shave off a semester and
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 5: graduate in May. I was basically the shining star of
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 5: our group is I had my chapter two written, polished,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 5: edited by a subject.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Matter expert way before an anybody else. It was clear
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: in our class meetings that others were looking up to me,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: and I felt great. I loved the topic and enjoyed
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: the process. Most of Chapter one was completed at that
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: time as well, just because I wanted to stay ahead.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: As soon as we got into the statistics of chapter three,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: the wheels fell off. All started well. My draft was
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: done exceptionally early, and I felt good about it. I
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: expressed my concerns about not really understanding my statistical analyses.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: I'm running an Anova and an Ankova, but she reassured
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: me that it was totally normal and I would learn.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: As I went, a buddy of mine from the program
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: was also moving quickly, and when I found out he
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: was defending his proposal, our program has us defend the proposal.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: Prior to the IRB review, I felt a twinge of
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: competitiveness that he beat me, but used it as leverage
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 5: to push harder. My chair took a bit to review
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: my chapter three, and when I received it back, I
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: was frustrated. I pretty much had to redo it in
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: its entirety, so I buckled down and did. On the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: next review, which I spent an immense amount of time on,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: my chair came back saying that it sounded AI written,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: which we should not be needing AI to write by
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 5: the time we are in dissertation, and I had to
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: completely redo it again. Now I was devastated, absolutely crushed.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: I apologized profusely for any implications that I had done that,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: and if somehow I had maybe accidentally done something wrong.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: Apparently using grammarly pro which the school pays for us
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: every student and makes us use, made it sound AI written.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: I also felt like my character had been attacked and
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 5: the relationship I had with my chair was damaged. We've
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: presented at conferences together multiple times, and she is who
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: I have gone to for advice in general regarding career
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: and the program. I lost all motivation or interest in
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: even finishing this program, but I mustered up all I
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 5: could do while on vacation, once again rewriting chapters one
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 5: and three. Her review came back once again that it
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 5: needs considerable work and maybe I should speak to both
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: my stats person on my committee and the kind the
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: headstats person for the program. Well, she was much kinder
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: and supportive in that email. I feel like I can't
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: do this anymore. My husband has been sacrificing for me
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 5: to be in this program. Even my parents who live
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: near us have jumped in to help when things at
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: home with things at home to make this possible. I've
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: put off having children because I didn't want to not
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: finish my program like many others because they do have children.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: I feel so much guilt for holding out on kids,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 5: both for my husband and parents who are now aging.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: I'm the only child and they so look forward to
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: having grandkids, and because I can't figure out fucking statistics.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: I feel like the doc program is my excuse for everything,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: and it has been for years now. I've always been
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: the person that can do whatever. I set my mind
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: to finishing undergrad in three years, my masters in two,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: saw my first client at twenty two years old, etc.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: I know logically this is just a fucking dissertation. I'm
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 5: in my twenties, which is far younger than anyone else
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 5: my program. I am not behind, but for the first
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 5: time i'm life, I feel like I just can't. I've
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 5: lost all interest in teaching future counselors.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: Which I was so excited for.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 5: I feel defeated, like a part of a part of
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: my life has been taken. I expressed how it lost
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: I felt to my chair and also asked if the
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 5: May graduation date was out of the window, and she
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: was very supportive, but did agree that it was past
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: the point of May being possible. For the first time
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 5: in my life, I can't seem to muster up the
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: fire to just push harder. Working on it now feels
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: like torture, but it completely consumes my thoughts and emotions
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: nearly all the time in a negative way. I'm just
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: tired and feel like I have nothing left to give
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: to this. I understand this is beyond not right sized
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: and actual is actually absolutely ridiculous. But that's where I'm at. Yes,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to find my own therapist again, but I'm
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 5: also kind of in a jam of not being sure
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: where the heck to find time in the day to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 5: do therapy, which would take away from actually addressing the stress, sir. Plus,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: finding a therapist as a therapist is hard Yet I've
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 5: spent an hour writing this letter to you while procrastinating
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 5: working on chapter three. So anyway, CPT skills aren't working,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 5: neither any ACTDBT or SFPT, whatever the heck else I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: can think of. I'm out of ideas, drained, frustrated, generally
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: pissy and lost. I don't even know exactly what to ask,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 5: Just help, sincerely, discouraged doc candidate pronouns or she and
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 5: her woe. Interesting dropping out of a program when you're
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 5: that far into.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: It, I know, I hear this, just, you know, shooting
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: from the hoop here. I hear this as that defeated
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: feeling from like just being so far out in front,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: being such an overachiever and getting that little, not little,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: that knockdown, like oh, I've hit a roadblock, and now
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: I hit kind of a second roadblock, and now it
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: feels like I've just slowed my momentum.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: And none of these roadblocks were part of my plan,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: not even.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: A thought, not even like, oh, if something goes wrong,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: then it was just I'm just doing this Because our
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: expectations are set a lot of our emotions when things
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: are playing out, it's like, well, my expectation was I'm
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: going to graduate early, and now if I'm not, I'm
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: just a fucking failure. Then I guess why even try.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: Like I have met with clients who are maybe out
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: usually they're in college, and when they've come out of
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: high school and it was easy, they're like, I never
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: had a study in high school. They freeze in college.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: Is this interesting like phenomenon? And I kind of see
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: that in the writer a little bit, where it's like, oh,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: this one class I'm just not getting for some reason,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: I've never not gotten something before, like and then they
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: just don't go to class, and then they can't leave
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: their house. Like it's kind of wild to watch because
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: you're like, oh, you you can do this, but it's
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: this it's like hitting their first roadblock. It can be debilitating.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: There's also an expectation that goes along with competition too,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: because like you're you are so far out in the
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: lead that you think that this is, oh, this is
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: what I should expect because I'm, you know, so far
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: out ahead of everybody else, when in reality, that's the
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: expu that's the exception, not the expectation. So when you
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: first start with the exception and get the feeling of
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: what that's like, and then when you know, everything kind
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: of starts to even out over time, then now it
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: feels like you're behind only because you're not as far
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: out as you once were. So it's like, I don't know,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's that weird phenomenon where it's like you
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: the people who have the most privileged feel like they're
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: the most oppressed, right because any kind of pushback against
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: that privilege feels like oppression, you know, And so it's
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: that's hard, and there's also a little bit of the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: it's it's hard also to kind of fight against this
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: sunken cost fallacy here where it's like, well, I'm so.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: Far into this now I've got to do it. But
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: I kind of also agree with.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: You, yeah you do, because I was going to say
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: you do got to do it.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say putting fallacy at the end of that,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: is it always good?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: Exactly?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like sometimes it's just like no, no, this
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: is silly to not finish this.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and you know, I mean, you know,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: it's one of those things where you know, in fifteen
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: years looking back, you're gonna be like, oh man, why
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: didn't I just uh, you know, push through do a
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: couple more semesters.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like a really big deal right now,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: especially with all the hard work you've put into it.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: And side note really quick, the AI thing, y'all. I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: cannot tell you how many times I have thought, thank
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: God I did not go to college, when like, oh,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: for sure, these poor students a lot of the it's
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: like poor teachers and poor students, Like teachers are trying
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: to like make sure you're not doing it. Students are
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: trying to make sure you don't think I'm doing it.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: But then like now grammarly AI is like will not
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: say I.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: And the consequences are tremendous, you know, big deal. Our
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: system has like an auto thing that you can run
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: papers through and it can be but it's also an AI.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: So you're using AI to combat combat AI.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, it's like this goddamn Cold War.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: You know, between these two sides, if we think that
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: you wrote it with AI, technically you've you've done academically
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 5: dishonest things that if you wanted to be letter of
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 5: the law about it, you could expel them for.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: I can't you just use AI and then say make
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: this sound like I didn't use AI.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Way to do it.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: It's not a way. It's exactly that. You don't have
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: to figure out anything else?
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Though, is it? It just said it? You just do that?
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: Sound like?
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: I mean that is the AI part of this.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: I do empathize with the with your professor a little
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: bit on that because like it's like Whitney is alluding to,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: everyone is just trying to figure this out. Everyone is
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: just right now trying to figure out this AI thing
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: and what that means for education as a whole. Right,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: So that part, I know, I'm sorry that tying to
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: deal with it. But also I don't know what to
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: do about that, Like if if right now is just
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: like you're just in this weird spot in history where
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: you also have to think about making sure your paper
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't sound like a I wrote it. If you're too smart,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you that's that's just
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: what it is.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: I will agree.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: So, like I went through a similar like when I
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: was a kid, we weren't able to use calculators, and
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: because we weren't always going to have calculators, that was
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: always the thing. And now we do always have calculators.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 5: You always have differently, you know, we all carry t
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 5: I eight nines. Yeah, I had to stop carrying around
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 5: my cell phone because the TI calculator does do I
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: almost dropped out of my ask.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: T I app for I phone.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: It's not even AP that's in the calendar or in
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: the calculator sideways.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I almost had to drop out of my
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: master's program because of statistics.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, statistics.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: Yes, Peter as smart as he got, like always through
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: all of college, and I remember him being like, will
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: you help like tutor me institute sticks. I was like
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: what because statistically, like math, it's not and it's not.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: It was so held up on that too. He's like no,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: I struggled through that.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like what d It was so hard.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 5: That was the only class I ever really did sincerely
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 5: consider cheating in and because it came down to it,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: because I was like I am not going to keep me.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 5: And it was a later class for me, Like I
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 5: was already pretty far into my masters.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: It was like your masters, this was undergrad. Yeah, the undergrad.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: And then I think because I took it in my undergrad,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't have to do it.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 5: So here's how it happened for me. I never took
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: it in undergrad. Not a lot of statistics needed a
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 5: Bible college. Yeah what Yeah, so my my Bible degree
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 5: did not need me doing a lot of statistical analysis.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not a whole lot of biology. Not as much. Yeah,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: as much as I.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: Would have liked a lot of fishing, a lot about fish,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: multiply fish, all the word problems, literally solve it.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: It was just like America lapp and oh, yeah, you're right, excellent.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: I had a mathistic. Some people that read the entire
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: Bible and then stay in the church, that's one thing
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: they don't want to teach those.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So for me, I had to, Like during my masters,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: they actually told me I had to go take an
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 5: undergrad class in stats. So I did that so I
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 5: could then go and take the master's stats class.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: And that was really hardy.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: It was really hard, feel almost like to go backwards.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I had to unlock it by doing the
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: bachelor's class. And when I did that one, which I
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 5: barely got through, then I had to take the master's one.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 5: And in my school, if you got below a bee,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 5: the class didn't count. And so I was like fighting
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 5: my way up through this.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: For a lot of graduate degree.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and so like it was a real pain in
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 5: the ass. And like I was so desperate toward the
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: end of this that like there was a online test
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 5: that we had to take, and I sincerely went on
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 5: like basically the Craigslist of finding people that cheat and
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 5: like trying to find somebody to do this, and I
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 5: actually found this guy. He was a Pakistani engineer who
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 5: cheated on college people's tests as a side hustle, and
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 5: so like he just basically had this whole racket where he,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: like you just had a very elaborate way to get
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: all your credentials so that he could get into the
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 5: thing and like if it was a distance like test
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: or whatever, he could do it for you. And yeah,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 5: I know he was and I got really close to hiring.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: Him a little chicken down charging.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the kid that used to try to
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: ask people at the grocery store. I was going to
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: walk in there and sit down with a plate of cookies, Like,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: might you just have a seat, Joe?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 4: Did you actually like Jim?
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Do you do you know who I am? Here we go? Yeah,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: the statistics that the cost of it, huh do you
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: want what the cost would have been? Oh?
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: Man, this it was a long time. It was like
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 5: twenty twelve, and I think, uh it was it was.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 5: It was enough money that you had to think about it.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 5: It was probably less than one thousand dollars.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: I was already thinking that that guy was banking.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he knew what he was selling.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 5: Because and then you also don't want somebody not charging
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 5: very much and they're like, yeah, twenty bucks, You're like, no,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 5: are you gonna fuck this up? Or like are you
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 5: gonna like tell somebody like you want the guy who
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 5: seems really professional about it, He's like, I charge because
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: I know I'm gonna aces them.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: And also your secret dies with me. I'm in Pakistan.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: You want you want the cheating paper writing salesman. You
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: want to use the same criteria that you would use
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: on a prostitute. Yeah, exactly, don't skimp if it says
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I'll do it for twenty bucks. Yeah, keep walking.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. You're gonna you're gonna carry something
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: with me from that experience. That's right, come back on
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I relate to the writer because yeah, that's
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 5: the tysics class almost burned me, and like that was
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: really tough because I was like, dude, I really might
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 5: not finish this entire program because there is no way
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: around this. I had already taken this class. I was struggling,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 5: like I was trying so and this was.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Back before we had AI obviously that could teach you
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: this stuff now, and back then I was trying to
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: like watch YouTube videos call a friend of mine.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 4: Five million times. The words never changed ever getting better.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: I was trying to understand it, just like learning a
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 5: whole other language. Like I just couldn't get it.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: That was mine was Spanish, a different language. That's what
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: it caused me to almost not get my degree.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I remember the story. Yeah I cheated. Yeah,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: did you have a Pakistani guy? I hired a guy
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: to write a paper to teach me Spanish.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: The scene from the office where Dwight goes to like
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: a home to you a pickup some some laborers, and
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: one of the labors is Nate from the warehouse, and
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: they're speaking Spanish reach other, but it's like terrible Spanish.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: Don't are you from.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: Just speaking Yeah? English?
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: English is really good, so yeah it is.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: It's these stumbling blocks are really hard, writer. And you know,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 5: obviously you don't ask us for any specific advice on this.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, because I think we all are going to
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: encourage you, right, like it's the rising grind. It's like
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 5: you just keep going at it and like, I don't know, like,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 5: to me, you've come far enough in the process you're writing.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 5: You're at the IBr phase, Like you're at the part
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: where you're like submitting the testing analyses, you're trying to
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 5: get permission to run the experiments. It's going to get done.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 5: It always eventually does. And you know, I don't know
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 5: that you're falling behind in life, but I do think
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 5: the writer brings up a really good point. I've seen
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 5: this with a lot of my grad students who put
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 5: off other priorities in their life because they're like, I
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: need this is my career, I need to be able
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: to make money and then raise a family or whatever.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 5: So a delay is very significant for them, And I
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 5: think that the writer is bringing up some things that
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 5: don't often get talked about with grad schools and doctoral programs.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: Like I was talking to somebody the other day. One
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 5: of my students was coming to me for like some
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: career advice of you know, graduation and looking for jobs.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: And she was talking about after graduating from a master's
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 5: going back for her PhD in getting like ASID, like
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 5: going back and becoming clinical psychologist. And I'm like trying
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: to talk about that, like why would you do that?
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 5: You already have a master's that leads to one counseling discipline,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 5: Go do the job. And she's talking about what I
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 5: really want to make money? And I'm trying to explain
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 5: to her, like you're going to take seven more years
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: not making money so that you can get what twenty
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: thousand dollars more with the CID, Like what are you doing?
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: I mean if that?
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like you're gonna you could have made money all
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 5: those years, Like that.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: Sometimes works out if you don't retire until you're ninety, right, Yeah,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: But like you know, time is a really important resource
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: and like life development for a lot of these people,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: and you know, like a lot of therapists are women,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: and like going to grad school is a three year
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: commitment in most.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 5: Cases, and like that a lot of them if they're
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 5: trying to family plan or get married and stuff like
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 5: this writer saying, look, my husband is all alone paying
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: for this, and like I'm going to school and sometimes
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 5: I feel weird about that, Like I'm just over here
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 5: at my little classes, reading my little book, turning in
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: my little assignments. This dude goes into the fucking coal
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 5: mines and like puts bread on the table, Like my
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 5: parents are waiting. These are real pressures. But I feel
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 5: like your family, your your husband, your your parents, unless
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 5: they are coming to you and saying you're running out
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: of time, right if your husband's coming to you and
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 5: saying it's a it's a question of economics. I can't
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: keep us afloat much longer. You need to go back
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 5: to stripping, like you know, like that's then that's a
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 5: different conversation.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: There's a way you could learn statistics while stripping.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: I think there is.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 5: I think that's a whole like theme, you know, the
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 5: statistics professor is my favorite.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: That could be your stripper name is Bell Curve. I
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: don't like that I don't like idea.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: Look at my statistics. I mean, honestly, is a good
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: stripper like this?
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I guess the other thing.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: Though, too, writers, like when you here's another way to
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: look at this is like how meaningful this is gonna
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: be to.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: You when you finish it?
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: Like, That's the other thing that I think sometimes we
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: forget about is like the struggle is sometimes what.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: Gives it its value. If you do decide and there's
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: no I don't think there's any you know, no shame
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: either way. Honestly.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: You know, if you're like, Okay, this is a bit
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: more than I want to bite off right now, then like, okay,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: walk away from it. There's no shame in doing that.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: If you want to stick through it and you accomplish it,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: it's going to feel amazing once you get that point.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Statistically speaking, though, if you walk away from it, you
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: won't come back to it. There it is, Well, I
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: don't understand his statistics, So that's why I wanted to
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: throw that up for you.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, still not clear.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: Good luck on this one, writer, keep us in the loop.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: But you know what if grad school grad school is
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: notoriously daunting right, and like these things are very hard.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: They scare a lot of people away.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: From trying them, and you've chosen this path, and so
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 5: just know that you are in great company in the
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: sense that it is a joyless slog. Like I fucking
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 5: my dissertation sucked. I hated every minute of it, is
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: the thing. I was dreading the entire program. I loved
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 5: the classes, but just writing this huge ass piece of
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: research it just felt fucking pointless. Remember even when I
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: was doing it, I was like, this is dumb.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: So it was like, they do it just to see
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: if you'll finish the paper.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 5: I don't really care to talk to my committee, and
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 5: they'd be like, you know, so excited to like talk
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 5: to me about it, and like, oh, I barely give
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 5: a fuck about any of them.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: See that's the thing, Like, if you're going to do
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: a dissertation, boy, you got to find something that you
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: really love.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: Better.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: You better be interested. Yeah, better yeah?
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: Because I mean I feel the same way about teaching.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: Because I had to teach a class at at Northern
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: Iowa and it was a.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Course in conflict resolution. I was like, this is boring, like.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: And and that was the last class I ever taught
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: because I just was not into it. But if you
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: give me a class on ASAM criteria or treatment planning
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: or something like that, I'll do that shit for free.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, but conflict resolution fuck that I want to just.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: Like I mean because she mentioned just feeling like I know,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: back to the AI stuff, feeling like she damaged her
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 4: relationship with her professor. I have a feeling these professors
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 4: are all like in the thick of it too. They
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: like have to confront you about these things. They can't
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 4: let it slide. Doesn't mean that it's personal. And I
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 4: love that you have a relationship with them where you
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 4: can go tell them like, hey, I did not do
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 4: this an AI like this is what I've been using.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 4: I'll try again. And I think they mentioned like some
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 4: kind of extra study program or something you could go to.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: I maybe I'm misremembering that, but it was like, Oh,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: if you're struggling still try doing doing this.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: Oh you could talk to the statistics the chair chair
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: this is stats person on the committee or the stats
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: person that leads the school.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Need better information, Like.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: I feel like just going through kind of like to
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: what Nick just said, like going through and struggling through
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: it That doesn't mean you're a failure or you've wasted
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 4: time or this is pointless. It can feel that way,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 4: but I mean pushing through will help it feel more valuable.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 4: Once you've accomplished it, you're like, fuck yeah, fuck you
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 4: for trying to hold me back, Like I did this anyway.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Also, it was you don't learn when you already know
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: how to do it. Yeah.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, You're not gonna learn anything with something that you
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: already know how to do.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, parent statistics is hard.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: But I mean, like real talk about it, Like make
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: sure to get all of the critiques that you can
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: get on it. Make sure to get very specific critiques
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: on it. If you if you don't understand critiques, fucking
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: ask the questions, get get in there, really dig into it.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: You might be doing all this. You probably are, but
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you do have to just get up
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: and do it at some point or decide that you're
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: not going to write.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, with the whole relationship thing with the advisor, you know,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: that's that's tough, and I would, to the best of
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: your ability just look at it as data and not
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: as a as an individual or a person or somebody
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: you admire or someone you have a relationship with It's
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: just data, it's just information, you know, take that for
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: what it is. You can always rebuild that relationship if
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: that's you know, if that is in fact.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: What's going on.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 3: If the relationship is damaged because she thinks you used
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: AI and you didn't, well, then fuck her. Like also,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 3: there's nothing you can do about it, exactly, there's nothing
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 3: you can that's also we hadn't talked about that. The
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: relationship will be re established. There may even write your
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: paper for you. You may you might be too young writer.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: There is something though that we older people know about,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: and it's called sleeping your way to the top. Yes
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: a try, Yeah it works.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 5: Let me tell you. Whitney wanted to join this podcast
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 5: for months. We all said no, and then and here
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 5: we are.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: Some deals were made, some backroom deals.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: If you reize our way to the top. Peter, Yes,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Peter was in the chair.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: He was part of it.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: He agreed.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: Supports mental health. He wasn't in the cuture. Whitney is
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: not going to do the dirty work herself. What the
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: hell not even on the show.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: I need to get on this podcast, Peter, get in
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: there and make me proud.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: Anyway, writer, this is a tough one. I just what
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 5: We all would just put some gas in the tank
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 5: here and just encourage you. One of the things that
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 5: got me through programs was I would like fantasize about
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 5: what it will be like when it's done. Like I
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 5: would look at the graduation ceremony stuff. I would look
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 5: at jobs. I would look at places I wanted to
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: practice or live in. I would go design business cards.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: That was one of the things that I used to
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 5: do back in the day to like get myself through it.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: You will do anything to not do your statistic that help. Yeah,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: I would go.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 5: I would go to Vista Print and I would design
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 5: business cards that would have my credentials on them which
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 5: I hadn't earned.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: You. You would daydream on business card making websites.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 5: That got me through that that would get me through
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 5: like those moments it was really hard. I'd be like,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 5: I'd go and I'd write a business card that said
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 5: doctor Jim Job and I'd be like yeah, And then
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 5: one day I would lose that doctum. You had to
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 5: return as a Nike problem.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break in when we
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: come back, we are wrapping up the show. You are
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: listening to pod therapy.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: All right today. This episode is brought to you by
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Jack Schneider, Malia, Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Thunderer, Falcon, Screw, Motherfucker, Sanderman,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Adam Warren, bgad Crimes, and oh yeah, and in sponsor
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: the show, Yeah to become a theraproducer picton dot com
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: slash they.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 5: As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 5: you can go to patreon dot com slash therapy and
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 5: you can get our extended show add free a day earlier,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 5: as well as enjoy our live chat discord community and
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 5: our sporadic deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups and rants.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 5: And we've got some new friends who've joined us at
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: patreon dot com slash therapy. Who's new to the family
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 5: there and new to.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: The family, We've got a new therapod, Bob Nice.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 5: And for such a common name, I believe this is
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 5: the first time we've ever had so this is our
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 5: first Bob.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean Robert Brownie junior man. But that's
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: Robert Brownie, Jim's first. Just be Bob junior mint. We
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: should start calling him that. Well, he's an adult boisticated,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: and we.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: Got a new theradactyl Scoop Lindsey. Yeah, thanks for the upgrade.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: Oh that's right, I forget. Yeah, we used to do that.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: We'd like to think the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: pro therapy Diehard who loves you all so much they
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: give till it hurts our therap partner Pickett.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: And we want to think.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: Our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati, members of the
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: fan club.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: The their producers.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Bobby Brownie, Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 5: Richard fucking Macy. I should change all their names, Dick
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 5: fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon cassab Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 5: Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Daniel Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slurpi Kai
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 5: a motherfucker, I guess, slurp Kaye fuck Benjamin stan Lee,
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 5: slap in your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer, t
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 5: Michael helm Oscar Swan Rose, Paris A Sonny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 5: Lib Sandra mcwoffle Team Monico, Thunder Cougar Falcon Scoop, Hey
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 5: o Anna, Marie Andrew lang Mead Andy lan Mead as
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 5: he likes to be called, Emma Tonka and Punk Punky
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 5: Pony Soprano uh Ponath Thee Soprano, Alina Cody, the Lorian Guy,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 5: Brady Malay Check Chick Filatio gabriel A Dame, Sean Sutherland,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 5: max A Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag Adam Warren, Incle of Prince,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 5: Sam Cone, Bigae, do crimes, el e O'Dare blit blop
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 5: and Ammy Ardvark nailed it close enough.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: If you would have liked to end this episode uncut
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: and unedited and and enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: to patroon dot com slash therapy and thank you for
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: supporting mental health.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: That's all the time for this week session.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: I want to think are lame Lord's uh oh wait,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: what is our place called again?
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: The pp Poopoo Studios Chapter one. Anyway, it's my favorite
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: part about NADES. Share to share the show. Teck us
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: on the socials when you do.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: We're at pod therapy guys on Instagram, dreads and Twitter,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: slash pod therapy on Facebook and blue Sky. Don't forget
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: about all the extra goodies at patron dot com, slash therapy.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: And even you can submit a question to the show,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: So go ahead and do that. Ask anonymously at pod
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: therapy talk yeah, email is at pod therapy guys at
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: gmail dot com, or click the link in the episode
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: description to be taken to our noo Google forms.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna Cannon, I'm Jim, Thanks for your appointment, Happy Thanksgiving.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: To you all, Happy thanks peoples. Oh shit, yes, let's do that.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: Let's oh really
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: Goodbye.