Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 262 - John T Martin

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JFK Assassination - Ep. 262 - John T Martin · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:14
  This is from sixtys to the jama Johson around, Sleep Freezon Crazy, to
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  Game, int we Go and here we go. What's up? Everybody?
• 0:57
  Welcome to the show. This is the lonegom and podcas Yes episode number two
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  hundred and sixty two all about John T. Martin. It appears we're on
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  a loop now we're not, but I love the song. Thank you Roger
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  for our awesome theme music. Yeah, this this stream is going to be
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  all about John T. Martin or John Thomas Martin. We as we figured
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  out he is going to be one of the important, more important Martin's is
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  to the story that we continue to do deep dives on here on YouTube.
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  He was included in our presentation, but again we couldn't really get too deep
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  into him as we only had about fifteen minutes to touch on him. So
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  this episode we're gonna go a lot deeper. So get out your shovels,
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  folks, Welcome in And it just went quick. Shout out to everybody who
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  showed up. Joe to our first dream Live Wednesday night on the twenty second
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  really surprised me how many people showed up, and thank you again for showing
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  up and showing out for the new and improved Long Guming Podcast and welcome in
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  co host Joe Barelli. Joe b Hey, good morning everyone, And just
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  to let you know, Rob and I had a little side bet that if
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  we had fifty live at the same time with us in the chat room,
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  he was going to do something unspeakable and he pleaded or he sweared. We
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  only got to forty eight and I'm still going through the evidence with that,
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  but that's also ongoing research. But yes, we are very grateful to everyone
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  that tuned in live then and watched after over five hundred reviews, I believe
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  and you know that. And that was just the intro, and we are
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  going to be getting into one of the more mysterious Martins today and we have
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  an amazing story to tell you. It's gonna blow your mind and hopefully get
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  you hooked on the rest of the series because this is a very fascinating story
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  and not a lot of people have gone into John T. Martin like we
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  have. And and with the help of Gary Schoener, first generation, second
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  generation what is that considered? That's first, right, Rob, Oh,
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  he's definitely first. Yeah. With his I've been corresponding with him for about
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  eight months now, you know, like or two a month, nothing crazy,
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  And he has given us a ton of help. He has helped us
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  a lot with us segment and also verified that he quote thinks we found him,
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  and the evidence that we will show you during this show, well,
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  I think convinced you as well. And coming from the only person to live
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  that has seen him allegedly, right, and we will get into the details
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  of that. So very true. Weiseberg is unfortunately not with us anymore.
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  So let's get into it, yep. And we'd be remiss not to mention
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  the fact that a lot of our information was found in the Wisburg Archives.
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  There's a lot of correspondence there between himself and Gary Schooner. There was contemporary
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  to the time when they were coming across as Martin film and actually meeting John
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  in Minnesota. And also to Paul Treho, big thanks to Paul Trejo,
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  who we also interacted with, who actually brought out, at least to everybody's
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  importance of the Martin film some ten years ago. There's a lot of misinformation
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  out there about John T. Martin and his film that we hope to clear
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  up with you here today. So without further Ado, Let's jump right in,
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  Joe. Okay, well, let me just start before I started getting
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  into our Martin research, what were my thoughts about Walker and John T.
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  Martin and the you know, gentlemen that served under him in Germany? This
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  was the accepted idea in the community. And who took a film of General
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  Walker's house and the bullet hole and his assassination attempt and also the Lee Harvey
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  Oswalt fracas in New Orleans on August ninth with Carlos Bernier and other human exiles.
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  Obviously catching both of those events on film preassassination is, like I said
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  at Lancer, statistically improbable, almost impossible. And we'll explain why are working
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  theory in a little bit. Right before we get too far, Joe,
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  Let's go ahead and show everybody the Martin film, so we're all on the
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  same page. The Martin film right away, all right, Yeah, a
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  lot of people haven't seen it, Joe, so let's show it, at
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  least the only version we have available now today, which comes from the sixth
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  Floor Museum. So everybody take in the Martin film and we will give you
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  some live commentary as we go. There is no sound, Yes, this
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  is the Martin film as it is right now on the sixth floor museum.
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  Sorry about that. This is him leaving Minnesota allegedly yep, from brand affair
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  Ways. Some beautiful cloud coverage. That's a great cloud. It's a lovely
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  cloud. Yeah, that's even a better cloud. H looks like an iceberg
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  in the ocean. Could this be Antarctica? I was thinking, I was
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  sad I make an ant article comment. All right, hold up? So
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  okay, yeah, Paul's here, I did, all right, So this
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  is how do we How do we get here? First, Joe, we
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  were before it. I thought it showed the outside of his house first.
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  So this is how it goes. Oh it doesn't let me pause it?
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  God damn it. Hold on, all right, pause it right there if
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  you can. Yeah. YouTube is not the best with videos. Okay,
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  so that is what that is. Back it up. Just a just a
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  coney here there. Okay, a little bit more. We're going slide by
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  slide here. How about a little bit more, a little bit more?
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  Yeah, okay, right there, not there no mhm cats like the first
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  the first couple of seconds of the next when we're in Walker's house. Okay,
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  a little bit more all right, pause it fuck, okay, I'm
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  just gonna pause it us like right there there all right. As you can
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  see, you can see the bullet hole. This is the window from inside
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  Walker's house looking out towards the rear of his house. You can see the
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  damage done to the window pane and the glass and the screen. There is
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  a definite chunk out there. We just wanted to point that out to you
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  real quick. And no, that is not a white Nash rambler in General
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  Walker's driveway. That's his neighbor's house. But this is the view looking out
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  the back of his house where the shot came in from behind the wall out
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  back there. So procedure out the window, Yeah, yeah, I think
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  they. I think they might have just included the rambler thing to like muddy
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  waters, but that might be Ecto one from Ghostbusters as well. Okay,
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  so this is General Walker's house. It's taken like it's at midnight. However,
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  we've taken during the day and we're actually very dark. Have some slides
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  to show you and prepare from slides we acquired in the nineties, and we'll
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  show you the difference of quality and darkness and cropping that they have done.
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  So. Now we're in downtown Dallas, right, yep, there's these unnamed
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  people that look like Cubans outside General Walker's house. We believe, I believe
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  so we think no for sure though we can't. How could you tell for
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  sure? All right, he's on the plane again. He's going somewhere.
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  Where's he back in the air? Where's he going? Well, he happens
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  to be going to No, no, do that. You're much better at
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  that, Nola Nolan's Louisiana. All right. You see we got some swampy
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  cypress trees right here. Yeah, can you please like Davie Oh Rogers in
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  the chat? What's up, buddy? Ha ha, yes, sir,
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  No true flags here? I think that's a spruce. No, what is
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  that? The other Martin film is dark like this too. Well, we're
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  gonna get into that, mister. No true flags here, typing chimp Martin
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  short as badge man. Yeah, we got a comedian in the chat,
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  folks. We got a seal, Yeah, a very tear eyed see seal.
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  He does not look happy to be there at the zoo. All right,
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  this is important. This statue was important, very important. Yeah,
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  Andrew Jackson, I believe in Lafayette Square Park. Yeah, which was back
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  and from there this is gonna work. H We cut to Canal Street.
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  Of course, fucking PowerPoint and videos don't love each other. But we're gonna
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  pause here anyway, because says the Harvey Oswaltz. This says bring you a
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  as well, So I'm gonna play that again. Pause. You know,
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  watch closely here, folks. You see Oswald right there coming in your screen
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  on the left, and then Joe jacking up the feed. Mm hmmm,
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  that's my fault. I mean it's power points, yes, and the cops
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  are there. You can see the cop car pumped on the curb. And
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  let's just play the rest of it so we don't get anymore. Yeah,
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  play the rest, Yeah, just play it, play it out. We'll
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  get into some stills later. Yes, we have the cops, some guy
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  and a hat. The leaflet's torn up on the ground, and we're leaving
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  New Orleans. So that, folks, is about the extent of the Martin
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  film as we know it today. It's available as a six floor museum,
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  just so everybody's on the same page. Everybody knows what it shows. Now,
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  so Joe can please continue before we uh yeah, do you want me
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  to go to the first back to the first line. Yeah, let's let's
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  establish how we figured out who John T. Martin was great, Give me
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  one second here, and what's up Uncle Dave? I see you there?
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  Who else is in here? I'm not looking at the chat. We got
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  Roger Roger? Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't know if you made it
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  to Lancer or not. But if you did and I missed you, I'm
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  sorry. I think he was going there a little later in the week for
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  the for the anniversary. Like, yeah, and we got Uncle Dave sparks
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  up in here typing chimp no true flags or what us. We knew it
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  was gonna be a little bit of a struggle doing this at ten am on
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  Eastern. But yeah, no, that's fine to get people live in here.
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  But you know, hey, if you want to watch live, you
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  to show up. Son of Hawaii from Aloha, from Honolulu, Joe,
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  now Heloha, don't get me started on nowI oh shit, Tommy Reynolds is
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  in here. What's up? Tommy? Is the slide showing it is?
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  It is? So? This is oh hold on, Joe, breaking breaking
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  news. Sorry, Silk City Hot Sauces in the chat Baby. By the
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  way, folks, head over to Silk Cityhotsauce dot com and enter the code
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  Gunman for twenty percent off of your entire order. There's your live read.
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  Yeah, we got to come up with the new commercial, Joe too.
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  Oh wow, Well my commercial is my like bottles I have of Silk City,
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  but my favorite is the honey Hot Habit arrow. I absolutely love that
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  one, like legit love that one. And I've actually like been collecting hot
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  sauce and grow my own hot peppers that I actually brought back from Italy last
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  year and started them hydroponically under a light and got them outdoors. I'm brought
• 16:37
  back indoors and I'm actually just starting to get like seven little peppers and they're
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  not like the Italian long hots you would think of. But let's without further
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  ado, let's get into it. Well, stay tuned, mister, no
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  True Flags, You're gonna seen a lot of stuff you've never seen before.
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  Go ahead, Joe. Yeah, So I guess to True Flags this point,
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  we hadn't seen it before either. And we found it. Where did
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  we find it in the deep? Well, we didn't find it. Tom
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  Scully found it of course from the year book whatever yearbook, Creton High School,
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  YE nineteen sixty three from Saint Paul, Minnesota. And and this is
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  our guy. And we'll tell you why we think it's our guy. Yes,
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  And also I think it's We didn't find it on JFK forum. We
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  found it in some other crazy deep forum. And we'll tell you about the
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  story of how we found him. And I think actually we should get into
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  that right now, Rob, before we get to to get too deep.
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  Yeah. So, Rob and I spent a long time trying to find John
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  T. Martin. And John T. Martin is, don't get me wrong,
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  one of the most He's a ghost. He's one of the more mysterious
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  Martins. He takes this apparent video of Walker's house and Len fracas pre assassination,
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  sends it into the FBI, sends it into Garrison, says it into
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  the HCA, gives it to Showinger and Wiseberg, gives it to the sixth
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  Floor Museum, gives it to pretty much everyone, but doesn't comment and hasn't
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  said a word about it. And his one condition was and when he gave
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  it to Gary Mack in two thousand and seven, I believe Rob, his
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  one condition was don't ever f and contact me again. So, yeah,
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  we knew finding him was not going to be easy, but we were not
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  deterred easily, and we probably went through ten false J Martin like, yes,
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  we found him, this is him, I know it, like yeah,
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  Timothy Timmins, every other variety of John T. Martin's you could think
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  of, since you know, yeah, everything, And we were disappointed time
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  after time when we realized it didn't line up with the documents and the evidence
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  that we have and that we were going to show you shortly, and I
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  don't know how many it was that when we actually found that picture, but
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  when we cross referenced it with the rest of it, I noticed something interesting.
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  And I'm going to bring you back to that picture because a little known
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  tidmit about me is I went to military academy and in nineteen sixty three,
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  Creton High School was a military academy ROTC. And there's no way you're going
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  to be a sergeant at as a senior in high school, nor is the
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  person under you going to be a sergeant first class. So I quickly realized
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  this way. He was in the military. He was in military school,
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  and whatever he told Wiseberg and Schooner about serving under General Walker. We thought
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  might have either been lie by John T. Martin or a mistake by Wiseburg
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  and or Schooner thinking serving under him meant serving under him in Germany. But
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  he would have been fifteen in nineteen sixty one or even fourteen, and there
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  would have been no way for him to be under General Walker's service. So
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  we theorized it could be he served under him in the minute man or in
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  some other aspect personally. And before we move on, I want to focus
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  in on some of his This is his bio, his self written bio from
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  his senior class your book right, Chess, Chess, Chess. I'm not
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  saying it once like classical music, which we'll come into play too, but
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  three times very conservative Republican wants to establish the Supreme Court. I didn't even
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  know that was a Republican stance in the sixties, but my walls was alive
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  then so and then Chess Club two, three four, Chess Club again,
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  obviously very adamant about chess. Right, I want me to move on round,
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  Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Oh oh my god, Okay,
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  there we go. Power points face so we found can everyone to see this
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  so long? Rob what are you seeing? This is messing up here.
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  I'm just seeing your big beautiful face, that's all. Okay, I'm not
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  sure, sorry about that jumping the typing chimp. I grew up fifteen minutes
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  south in Farmington, Minnesota, was now Cretan Durham Hall High School. Currently
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  cool? Yeah, yeah, did you know John T. Martin? I
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  mean, or how old you are? Sir? But yeah, we get
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  up. We can message you on Longe later. We have some some leads
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  because we're knocked one on our search for him. We are going to get
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  a statement from this before before we hit this directory, let's let's talk about
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  the uh minute man card. Okay, God damn well, Microsoft isn't working
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  for me right now, so I'm going to exit a musician again. So
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  one second here, folks, patient, appreciate your patience. John. He
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  might have been a master debater as well, not a master's sergeant, all
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  right, and it will be shown in three two one, and this is
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  actually a picture of all three. He may not have been gay, We
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  don't know that well, right. He could have been drawn to Walker because
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  of his ideals, not you know Walker that would have never turned away.
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  He did like a good butch haircut though. But that's why we are pretty
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  sure he was inside Walker's home. We actually we know from the films and
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  the evidence and the documents. All Right, So we found John T.
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  Martin's mini man card. This was found in I think sixty five or something
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  in a trash pile thrown out by the FBI and like Kansas City or something
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  weird like that. I don't know who found this thing. But the minimen
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  card is the white card in the bottom left corner and it has an address
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  seventeen fifty two Angel Heart Saint Paul, Minnesota, sex male age seventeen.
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  Now, this card that was found in sixty five was actually from sixty three,
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  so we know that he was seventeen and sixty three occupation student, which
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  he would have been then skills and hobbies, music, coin collecting, chess,
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  chess chess chess, remember, folks, and microscopy activity material dues.
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  So our voyd, John T. Martin, at the age of seventeen was
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  a dues paying member of the Minutemen organization in Minnesota. Now, when we
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  found John T. Martin at the University of Minnesota, this is the bottom
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  right. This is the student directory John Thomas Martin seventeen fifty two Ingle Heart,
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  which matches up with the Mini Man card, which also matches up with
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  the address on the FBI documents pertaining to the Martin film, which we'll get
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  to here a little bit. But everything lines up, including the year of
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  graduation, which is highlighted here sixty seven bottom right. Yeah, so he
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  would have started in sixty three, he would have graduated. And you know,
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  if he graduated high school in spring of sixty three and started in the
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  fall of sixty three, then this is when he would have graduated. And
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  that Sla stp means Saint Paul, but the Sla Joe if you can put
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  back that blue directory up, Yeah, this is actually the bigger shot of
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  the So there were three John Martin's at the University of Durham of Minnesota during
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  that time, John Kenneth, John Richard, and John Thomas. But obviously
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  because of the address match, we were able to narrow it down to John
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  Thomas. Yeah, because some people speculated his middle name could be Timothy or
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  Timmins or Thomas, but this nails it down. So according to the student
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  directly, if if you look it down near the bottom with it says s
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  LA, which is the science literature and the arts degree. So science,
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  think microscopy, what this guy was into. Everything kind of lines up that
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  this was the guy. Yeah, and we have no reason to suspect there
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  there could be, you know, any other explanation for these three corresponding documents
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  from completely different sources. And you know that dispels the rumor that John Thomas
• 27:53
  Martin was serving under Walker and was in the army in nineteen sixty one or
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  Yeah. But we think that when he was talking to Wisberg and Schuner when
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  he was at the University of Minnesota, they may have missed misunderstood him when
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  he said that he had served under Walker. We believe he was probably corresponding
• 28:22
  with Walker, although we have no proof of that whatsoever. But the fact
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  that when he got to Dallas, that he went to Walker's house was invited
• 28:33
  inside implies some kind of a previous relationship, you know, unless he just
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  randomly walked up to the door. I mean, obviously he had to know
• 28:42
  who this guy was, walked up to the door and introduced himself, say
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  hi. You know, it's likely they would have had a little communication beforehand
• 28:53
  through the minimen organization. Yeah, yeah, especially when you look at his
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  bio and and how gonna hope he was for for for Right politics at even
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  age seventeen, And yeah, it is of It makes a lot of sense
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  to us and lines all up. So where would you like to go next,
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  Rob, Do you want to go into the film now? And the
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  decodes? Sure, so a little bit about the film when it comes to
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  the iterations of the film that we know about, okay, obviously he took
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  the film in nineteen sixty three. In December of sixty three, he called
• 29:44
  the FBI in Saint Paul and said, Hey, I have a copy I
• 29:48
  have I think I captured Lee Harvey Oswald on film in New Orleans when I
• 29:52
  was there, and they told him to bring the film in and they would
• 29:57
  take a look at it. They ended up sending it to New Orleans where
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  they looked at it and they determined that there was nothing of value, nothing
• 30:04
  to see here, folks, and they sent it back to him. And
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  when he got the film back, he thought that the film had been edited
• 30:15
  in some way, but he didn't really elaborate on that until later. But
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  in nineteen sixty seven, he voluntarily he heard about the Garrison investigation, and
• 30:29
  he voluntarily sent a copy of his film to Jim Garrison. Okay, in
• 30:37
  nineteen sixty eight, Weisberg and Showner show up in May to the campus.
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  He makes two copies, one for Wiseberg and one for Shooner Gary Schooner,
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  and he voluntarily gave a copy to the HSCA. He also who voluntarily gave
• 31:00
  a copy or sim sorry, he thought he was voluntarily giving his original film
• 31:07
  to the sixth Floor Museum in two thousand and seven. But unfortunately for John
• 31:15
  T. Martin, the film that we just watched and it's at the sixth
• 31:21
  Floor Museum is not the original film. It actually has a datecode on it
• 31:26
  that shows nineteen seventy seven. Now what that means, folks, is that
• 31:30
  somebody at the HSCA made a copy of his film and gave him back a
• 31:37
  copy and kept the original. And the original is not in Nara. There
• 31:42
  is no copy of the John T. Martin film in Nara at all whatsoever.
• 31:48
  So somebody out there still has the original Martin film in their possession that
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  was associated with the HSCA. Now we'll let you use your imaginations here.
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  We're not going to point any fingers at who we might think it is.
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  But you're all smart people here. I think we can figure it out.
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  What I'm insinuating. Again, we have no proof, but it is what
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  it is. But that is the chronological So you understand there's not very many
• 32:22
  copies out there of this Martin film. Now, in talking to Gary Schoener,
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  he has a copy. He has not seen it in fifty years and
• 32:32
  does not know where it is, but he's pretty sure he has it somewhere
• 32:37
  and this date he has not found it yet. Yes, and we actually
• 32:43
  discover a correspondence from Schoener to Wisberg that he was looking for in nineteen ninety
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  three, so that was thirty years ago. So right, that was twenty
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  five years after you know they had done what they did down there or Minnesota.
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  So we tried, Yeah, and I reached out to the curator at
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  the Wisburg Archives because we knew Wiseburg had a copy at some point, and
• 33:13
  Clayton Oglevie who because I asked him. I said, look, I know
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  it's not digitized and it's not online, but is there a possibility that somewhere
• 33:22
  at Hood College on a dusty shelf somewhere sitting in a box is a reel
• 33:29
  of film entitled the Martin Film. Is that possible? And he says no,
• 33:35
  everything's been cataloged, everything has been digitized and online. There's absolutely no
• 33:43
  copy of the Martin film that Wiseburg had that they got so and we don't
• 33:52
  know what happened to the Garrison copy of the Martin film other than that it's
• 33:59
  been in very few places. I believe it was talking to Martin Shackelford.
• 34:02
  It was available on set or for a purchase, excuse me, from some
• 34:09
  obscure like Montreal Film Studio in the in the eighties or nineties. And we
• 34:15
  have no idea how they got their copy or anything like that. But so
• 34:21
  it's a very very rare film and to find the original would be great because
• 34:30
  then we could see if certain things have been edited and why this copy that
• 34:37
  is at the sixth floor right now seems darkened and cropped in places. Yes,
• 34:44
  and even some descript earlier descriptions of the Martin film say that it shows
• 34:49
  the wall in General Walker's house that the bullet went in above his head.
• 34:54
  Yeah. Right, here is the thing inside the house of General Walker,
• 34:59
  of the house wall damage from a bullet which is not in the Martin film
• 35:04
  that we watched at the beginning of the show, available at the six floor
• 35:07
  Museum. So why certain little things like that might have been edited out?
• 35:15
  You know, it is is worthy of some more investigation. Yes, and
• 35:22
  we are. We have tried every possible route to get the earliest version of
• 35:30
  the John Martin film and we have access to HCA copy around that time,
• 35:42
  and it would it costs a lot to digitalize. Yeah, and we don't
• 35:50
  even know, you know, everything that's on there, right I see comment.
• 35:55
  Hold on, I see a comment about Frontline, So I wanted to
• 35:58
  address that real quick. I don't think that Frontline they might use other reporters
• 36:12
  films right, Well, we have here from the Wisberg Archives. Frontline was
• 36:15
  in touch with me and I sent that guy copies of the Martin and Doyle
• 36:20
  records that I have records, not film. That is further coming Oswald profile
• 36:28
  for the thirtieth anniversary. They've got ignorant people and conspiracy nuts working for them,
• 36:32
  along with Tony Summers, of whom I do not have a high opinion,
• 36:36
  and Scott Malone, who has little or no knowledge of the fact.
• 36:39
  Neither has been in touch with me and both know what I have. Tony
• 36:44
  has used it extensively and is so cheap a dirt bag the description of him
• 36:50
  by another irishman. He did not even give me a copy of his book.
• 36:55
  He and his took many days of our time here. But if they
• 36:59
  were guard a picture of Walker's house as a significant fact we're spending all that
• 37:02
  time and money on. I take this as an advanced indication of the junk
• 37:07
  they will air. And we do not know where they got their Martin film,
• 37:13
  or whether or not it is. The name John Martin is probably more
• 37:17
  common than another name in the so called investigations. And he said the second
• 37:23
  reason was that I got a call from a guy working and this is Schooner
• 37:27
  now talking first was wisebird Shoner says, the second reason that I got a
• 37:31
  call from a guy working for Frontline who asked about the Martin film, which
• 37:36
  resurfaced when you did the WL radio appearances out here so many years ago.
• 37:43
  Apparently, on closer examination of the entire film was something I never did because
• 37:45
  it was supposedly family footage. It appears that John Martin shot footage in General
• 37:51
  Walker's living room after the Oswald shooting when the hole was in the wall.
• 37:57
  I recalled that Martin told us that he had left wing work when Walker's far
• 38:00
  right wing stance burned him into a pacifist who was discharged because he wouldn't pick
• 38:06
  up a weapon. This would obviously not square with a visit to Walker in
• 38:09
  Dallas in sixty three Jim Mars's book listed as a strange coincidence. Showner says,
• 38:15
  I'm still looking around for my copy of the film to screen it and
• 38:19
  see what they're talking about. If this is accurate, I would have trouble
• 38:22
  explaining number one, why Martin told us what he did. Number two,
• 38:25
  why Martin would have given us the film. Unfortunately, there are many John
• 38:30
  Martin's in the phone book here, and I have not had the time to
• 38:32
  try to locate him. I feel old just saying this, but it was
• 38:35
  twenty five years ago, so that's your front line. They did not get
• 38:40
  their copy from wives work or shown her yep, and think I had chants
• 38:47
  about it, but not the actual film. That is direct, Robin,
• 38:52
  thank you for reading that. But we got a five dollars supersticker. I
• 38:55
  believe it is from my thank you typing chimp, and they said good job,
• 39:00
  and we want to thank you for that, which is gracious. Yes,
• 39:07
  and and yeah, obviously the Walker slides, we think weren't the only
• 39:15
  slides that we're messed with in that film, and we can get into some
• 39:22
  of our working theories shortly. I took down the presentation for a second as
• 39:24
  we were talking. Would you like me to present the three slides we have
• 39:30
  on the difference of the quality of each Yes, let us proceed, shall
• 39:37
  we? Yes? Let me see if I cannot screw it up? All
• 39:45
  right, here we go, and here we go, as we say,
• 39:51
  here's favorite part of the song. It is a pretty good part. And
• 40:00
  by the way, we have a full three minute Martin song that we haven't
• 40:04
  released yet. Yeah, it's coming. We just have to figure it all
• 40:08
  out as we're figuring out this whole streaming thing. But I think this show
• 40:13
  is going much better than the other one did. So. Yeah, that
• 40:15
  five fall starts, which is three three, come on, let's not come
• 40:22
  on. There's a lot of takes there. Yeah. Well, it's okay.
• 40:27
  We are researchers, we're not entertainers, all right, So let everybody
• 40:30
  know what they're looking at here, okay, And the left is the Martin
• 40:32
  shackelfird slide that he was selling in the nineties giving out and on the right
• 40:42
  as the screenshot of the sixth four museum copy on the right, as you
• 40:49
  can see, it looks like another piece of leaf. Almost the bullet hole
• 40:52
  we're here on the left is much more clearer. And yeah, so why
• 40:58
  is the sixth floor museum copy so much darker? They darkened it by like
• 41:07
  extreme amount, like not even trying to hide it type of darkening. And
• 41:12
  you'll see this in the next one, which is the General General Walker mailbox,
• 41:16
  also on the right shock first slide. I probably should have had them
• 41:21
  switched around for consistency purposes, but as you could see, it's clearly cropped
• 41:25
  and darkened edited for at least the fourth time by this point February nineteen sixty
• 41:34
  three, when John T got back from military school probably and looked at it
• 41:39
  and it was able to send it out Patsy and Martin in sixty eight sixty
• 41:47
  Joe, we should probably explain to everybody what we mean by Patsy. Oh,
• 41:52
  we will all right explain it then. Okay, So there was a
• 41:57
  fellow who was going to the University of Minnesota, as well at the same
• 42:02
  time as John T. Martin, and he was in in film as well,
• 42:07
  and his name was Michael Patsy. Of all things, you know,
• 42:12
  let's not think of of let's think of that name, Michael. I'm just
• 42:16
  thank you John Naylor for the five dollars Super Channel as well. Yes,
• 42:22
  thank you John uh So. So Michael Patsy. Yes, last name is
• 42:29
  literally Patsy is Martin and Wiseberg gave the film to to splice or make copies
• 42:37
  of make copies of right, I was just gonna let you twist out there
• 42:49
  and the win for a hot minute. So that was the copy that Martin
• 42:59
  who was listening to this radio show. As we demonstrated earlier, he never
• 43:07
  went into the military, like we found no evidence he was ever in the
• 43:12
  military, so he would have been in Minnesota around nineteen sixty seven nineteen sixty
• 43:16
  eight, and he called into the radio show Marathon Shoner and Weisberg ended up
• 43:22
  doing like a ten hour was it k lol kww I don't know what it
• 43:32
  was. Yeah, one of those local university radio stations, and they did
• 43:37
  a call in show and Martin called in and offered them up the film.
• 43:44
  In nineteen sixty eight and a lot of other weird things happened that summer.
• 43:50
  Gary Schoener got unfortunately jumped and beaten very badly. In fact, he had
• 43:59
  a long recovery, and Penn Jones writes about that if you want to look
• 44:04
  into that, and then of course someone might have done something with it in
• 44:10
  the HCA in the seventies, and then of course we actually have this wrong.
• 44:19
  John Tve reached out and gave them the film we believe it was in
• 44:22
  two thousand and seven, right, yes, yes, so we're not perfect,
• 44:30
  but yeah, so the next slide is also side by side from the
• 44:37
  Shackleford and the Martin film of the New Orleans fracas. And I mean the
• 44:47
  quality here is just night and day. It's unbelievable. I mean they didn't
• 44:54
  even try to hide it. So I don't think we can deny that this
• 45:02
  film was messed with along with along with pretty much every other film we can
• 45:08
  think of in this in this assassination story. Unfortunately, and someone made a
• 45:15
  comment earlier, Yeah, I wonder if there's like an FBI based on it,
• 45:20
  like ten floors down below ground level that just has all these films as
• 45:25
  the rails aprew film all that good stuff might be wondering. But now,
• 45:36
  Joe, let's get through this timeline a little bit from nineteen sixty eight.
• 45:42
  So it was May fifteenth, and we established this date through school newspapers who
• 45:49
  actually wrote about Wiseburg coming to the University of Minnesota, Minnesota, Minnesota to
• 45:55
  do a radio show on wl Still unclear if Martin called into the radio show,
• 46:02
  was in person of the speech. There's differing stories for both, but
• 46:07
  it doesn't really matter. They had met up and on May twenty third,
• 46:14
  Martin agrees to let them use film to get prints and slides of both movie
• 46:21
  and Prince. May twenty eight, Shoner writes, becoming good friends with Martin,
• 46:28
  He's interested in wildlife and reptiles. Check with lou Ivan because by now
• 46:34
  so when when Wisburg left the University of Minnesota, he was only there for
• 46:37
  a couple of days, but he went straight down to New Orleans to the
• 46:40
  Garrison camp and he's and he said, check with lou Ivan to see if
• 46:46
  Garrison has Martin's film. He sent it to them. Martin is wondering if
• 46:52
  they kept it or not. And on May thirty first, Wiseburg writes back,
• 46:55
  Garrison does have Martin's film, although it's not there. There's no obvious
• 47:00
  splices at least two, possibly three non obvious splices. Not believable Martin took
• 47:14
  so little footage of the arrest. Wants them to measure the footage. Asked
• 47:19
  for a print of Oswald footage alone with a leader at both ends. Garrison
• 47:23
  said that he sees no significance in the Martin film, but Weiseberg and Boxley
• 47:30
  do. Boxley do the first mention of the Martin trying to get him to
• 47:35
  sign an affid David alleging the FBI altered his film. Prior to giving the
• 47:39
  film to the FBI, he had spliced out a certain blank film and nothing
• 47:44
  else. The copy returned to him had no such splices, and that footage
• 47:50
  relating to Oswald seems shorter and lacks panning from one shot to the other.
• 47:54
  Weisberg acknowledges having two copies of the Martin film, wants Patsy to try enhancement
• 48:00
  skills on one of them. On June sixteenth, he asked for more blow
• 48:05
  ups and prints, complains about Patsy's work. June eighteenth, He explains he
• 48:12
  took the film to the best color place in the state. Patsy did not
• 48:16
  do that, says slides are of good quality, something rotten with film.
• 48:21
  Upon seeing it a second time, going to ask Martin for another copy of
• 48:24
  the film, loses contact with Patsy, says Martin willing to go swear out.
• 48:31
  In affid David showner gets a death threat. An Army intelligence man named
• 48:37
  Jim Murray leaves for Alaska, and they sent five slides of the film to
• 48:42
  lou Ivan in New Orleans. June twentieth. They paid Martin for a dub
• 48:49
  of his entire reel, but he only wants the Oswald footage, says Martin
• 48:52
  can do. In nineteen sixty seven, Garrison's office contacted him and asked for
• 48:57
  a copy of the film, which he sent them. Mentioned two other Leaflting
• 49:01
  films and things. Both were edited by the FBI, and we'll get into
• 49:05
  those here in a minute. Give Schoners Patsy's contact info again. June twenty
• 49:12
  fourth, talks more about getting Martin, getting with Martin for a second copy
• 49:16
  of the film. In an affid David, Now, Jim Murray shows what
• 49:23
  do you call it? This research as system research assystem Yeah is found dead
• 49:29
  in Alaska by a gunshot wound. Was Schooner's name on a piece of paper
• 49:34
  in his pocket. Yeah. June twenty sixth they asked Nara for the Martin
• 49:43
  report. Nothing comes back. Barry Ernest couldn't find anything. July second,
• 49:49
  written proof of nothing on Martin before Affidavid. He wants to know if Garrison
• 49:52
  has his original film. They would have frame numbers in splicing from Martin himself.
• 49:58
  Send eight stills and black white copy to lou Ivan. Plans to keep
• 50:01
  Patsy busy enhancing other films. July eighth, Boxley agrees Martin film was edited.
• 50:10
  Film reveals no obvious amateur splices. Now on June July seventeenth, Gary
• 50:17
  Schooner is beaten very badly with it. When they say, what within an
• 50:23
  inch of your life? Pretty much it did some permanent damage to him for
• 50:30
  sure. I believe he was in the hospital for a good month. He
• 50:37
  says the FBI must have kept the original film and returned an edited copy to
• 50:40
  Martin and talks of a better film. That's the Doyle film that shows a
• 50:45
  better quality. Martin becoming hard to contact, apartment search, threatening phone calls
• 50:53
  to Shoner. Now on August twenty first, a month after he was beaten,
• 51:00
  he meets Barry Ernest in Philadelphia, where he had gone home to convalesce
• 51:05
  for a little while. And if you actually read Barry ernest book The Girl
• 51:08
  on the Stairs, he talks about meeting Shooner and describes him a month after
• 51:15
  his beating. I mean he's still has obvious bruises, scarring, limping,
• 51:21
  So he's still in a bad way. And I was wrong, it wasn't
• 51:25
  Penn Jones. Yes, no, yeah. August twenty ninth, he heads
• 51:31
  back to Minnesota and they go on about trying to get Martin to sign his
• 51:38
  Affidavid. October into October, they're still having trouble finding Martin, so we
• 51:47
  think maybe they scared Martin away with Shoner being beaten and his research assistant being
• 51:55
  murdered or killed, and this kind of spooked Martin from from uh, you
• 52:04
  know, talking with him anymore, because they never did get the AFFID David.
• 52:14
  Nope, and uh, Schooner never got Martin to sign it. Obviously,
• 52:19
  if you were Martin and you saw what happened to Schoner, I probably
• 52:22
  don't blame mister John Martin for not signing it either. But we we had
• 52:30
  some help with actually, uh with finding a lot of this info from one
• 52:38
  of our listeners who was very curious and curious, George, and I want
• 52:50
  to give a shout out to him, because he really gave us a uh
• 52:55
  he really helped us along with this segment and found us the directory and got
• 53:04
  us to the working theory, which we will talk about shortly on what happened
• 53:07
  with the Margin film, although even Rob and I have some disagreements of how
• 53:13
  Lamy have found down. So yeah, let me know where you want to
• 53:17
  go next. Uh, let's touch on the Doyle film a little bit,
• 53:22
  Joe, all right, and why it's important because it kind of shows the
• 53:25
  same scene where Oswald's getting arrested in New Orleans. Right, do you have
• 53:30
  it available, Joe. I'm working on it, yes, sir. Yeah,
• 53:35
  it's be nice just to refresh everybody's memory with the Sorry I just saw
• 53:42
  Rogers comment there, Rogers, they curious George might be the typing chimp.
• 53:57
  WHOA I have to investigate morel the well, we determined to use jet setting.
• 54:06
  Oh he's a playboy for sure. Yeah, he's crushing it all right.
• 54:10
  Well, Joe works on finding the Doyle film. Let me read something
• 54:16
  to you concerning the Doyle film. And this is from an FBI document dated
• 54:25
  eleven twenty seven sixty three. So the Doyles were a little bit more quick
• 54:30
  on the draw to let the FBI know, Hey, we got a film
• 54:35
  that shows Oswald in it and it's interesting. Three you know, well,
• 54:39
  I guess it was yeah, three, four days after the assassination, and
• 54:45
  I do have a ready, mister big all right, Well, let's go
• 54:47
  ahead and watch it real quick now, then we'll then we'll come back talk.
• 54:51
  So we don't do the same thing I did last time. I'm just
• 54:53
  going to play it all the way through. Just let it play. Let
• 54:57
  it play, baby, Yeah yeah, just let it bombs away, baby,
• 55:07
  let it play. Oh well, I could my top if I put
• 55:12
  in presentation one first, take three, take three, take four, say
• 55:19
  it takes six. All right, all right, shine, no, all
• 55:31
  right. And this is from the library, so it has a stamp on
• 55:35
  it because it will cost us like a few hundred dollars to get that little
• 55:38
  trademark thing off. Well, I have a better copy, but I wasn't
• 55:43
  able to get it to Joe in time. But okay, so now they're
• 55:46
  showing the more details of the street fracas and much color and much more color.
• 55:52
  Yeah, Oswald's pissed. He's showing. He's pointing to his stuff on
• 55:54
  the ground that they ripped up. And there he is right in the back
• 56:01
  there. Yeah, you saw him creeping. Now they're all walking away.
• 56:07
  No oncident Oswa wanted to get arrested. And there it is. That is
• 56:13
  it. It is very short and unlike John T, we actually believe that
• 56:19
  the Doyles might have been actually near the fracas when it occurred. Has occurred
• 56:27
  to John T. Which well, the Doyles just so happened to be walking
• 56:30
  down the street, okay, right, So it says, uh, at
• 56:36
  about four o'clock in the afternoon of Friday, August the ninth, nineteen sixty
• 56:39
  three, mister Doyle, mister Wilson, and the young son of each were
• 56:45
  walking on Canal Street in New Orleans, approximately a quarter of a block behind
• 56:50
  missus Doyle, Missus Wilson and their two daughters. So you have all the
• 56:54
  girls walking ahead of all the guys by like a quarter of a block.
• 57:00
  As they reached the point approximately the middle of the blocks on five blocks towards
• 57:05
  the Mississippi River from the Young Hotel, they observed two young men. Let
• 57:08
  me repeat that, two young men who were carrying signs which bore pro Cuban
• 57:16
  inscriptions. They had leafless in their hands. One of the men wore on
• 57:21
  his front a yellow or orange colored sign which bore as a part of his
• 57:25
  description, the words Viva la fadel. As mister Doyle, mister Wilson and
• 57:31
  their two sons reached the scene, a group of persons who appeared to be
• 57:35
  Cubans took issue with the two demonstrators, and almost immediately police officers arrived and
• 57:44
  prevented trouble. After a short discussion, the demonstrators were placed in a patrol
• 57:47
  car by the officers and taken from the scene. During the argument, the
• 57:52
  officers I'm sorry. During the argument, a placard carried by the demonstrator not
• 57:59
  wearing the sun was smashed and the leaflets were torn from the hands of the
• 58:04
  men men plural and scattered on the sidewalk. The pieces of the placard were
• 58:10
  placed in the patrol car when the men were taken away. Motion pictures of
• 58:15
  the incident were taken by Jim Doyle, fourteen year old son of mister Doyle.
• 58:21
  Following the assassination of President Kennedy. Mister Doyle and other members of his
• 58:24
  family viewed the film taken in New Orleans and agreed that the pictures of the
• 58:29
  young man who wore the yellow colored signs strongly resembled photographs they had seen of
• 58:32
  Lee Harvey Oswald. Yes, sir, we have another request to slow it
• 58:40
  again and pause at the Doyle film. Okay, do you want to do
• 58:47
  that? Yeah, you can go ahead, work on as like we're not
• 58:52
  gonna pause it. It's very I mean, I can try, but it
• 58:55
  tends to jump to the end of the presentation, so I will play one
• 59:01
  more time. Well, you can just keep it, just keep it running
• 59:04
  while I'm talking about that. Yeah, okay. I got another correspondence here
• 59:10
  to Tom Bethel from the Garrison team. From Wiseberg, says, dear mister
• 59:20
  Bethel, when I phoned you on about twenty five November sixty seven concerning the
• 59:24
  Oswald literature scuffle, you said you would like to obtain the movies taken by
• 59:29
  j. Pat Doyle's son, Jim Paul Hawk told me you mentioned it again
• 59:34
  to him, So I wrote mister Doyle and then phoned him on January twenty
• 59:37
  first, nineteen sixty eight. Doyle was very cooperative and promised to send the
• 59:43
  film to the address you gave him. I encouraged him to send you the
• 59:45
  original and retain a copy for himself, but he may send the copy.
• 59:51
  Mister Doyle stated that he gave the film to the FBI immediately after the assassination.
• 59:57
  About two months after it was returned to him and his FA family viewed
• 1:00:00
  the film and noticed that some of it was missing. Some of the pictures
• 1:00:06
  taken were close ups of the arresting officer which were clear enough to observe his
• 1:00:08
  badge number. These and certain other views are no longer part of the film.
• 1:00:15
  So we got a problem here, folks. Somebody was with Oswald that
• 1:00:24
  day handing out literature, marching down the street wearing placards. So who was
• 1:00:30
  the mystery man that was with Lee Harvey Oswald? That was seen by the
• 1:00:37
  Doyles, not only the men Doyles, but also the women Doyles. They
• 1:00:44
  said that there was two men present. Now, the Doyles assert that when
• 1:00:49
  they got their film back from the FBI, that it had been edited.
• 1:00:52
  John Martin said, when he got his film back from the FBI that they
• 1:00:57
  had been edited. Also, there was some footage from WDSU. Yes,
• 1:01:07
  if you want to, I saw I was replaying the Doyle film and I
• 1:01:10
  paused it as we were speaking, and uh, you know this film.
• 1:01:15
  Obviously, I guess that's not the one you should have sent me. But
• 1:01:20
  either way, this is Oswalt right here. He's arguing with the cops.
• 1:01:23
  This is that guy that heavyset guy in the hat. So John T.
• 1:01:28
  Martin is behind this guy right here filming this way right. I just want
• 1:01:34
  to point that out before I played the rest of it. Right, I'm
• 1:01:43
  gonna play the rest of it. Yeah, they have Lee Harvey Olswell.
• 1:01:49
  I think he's over here right now, he says. As I informed you
• 1:01:53
  earlier, J Pat Doyle and John Martin informed me that the film returned to
• 1:01:57
  them was not their original film and had and edited. I also informs you
• 1:02:01
  that the WDSU news director provided the same information. What is relevant to this,
• 1:02:07
  uh follows where I will call it to your attention. There's Oswald as
• 1:02:15
  he walks by the fracas is leaving its disbanding. Oswalt wants to get arrested
• 1:02:22
  and wants to talk to you. There we go with that was for you,
• 1:02:29
  mister great SOFTWROTEXT. So what's interesting their, folks, is everybody that
• 1:02:32
  has footage of this event thinks that their film was edited by the FBI before
• 1:02:37
  they got it back. And obviously if it showed if there was two people
• 1:02:42
  there, or there was somebody with Oswald, that person has been edited out
• 1:02:47
  for whatever reason. Well, I think it's interesting. I think it's I
• 1:02:52
  think the reason is is because having him with co uh you know, a
• 1:03:02
  teammate, someone with him on this would not help portray or convey the loan
• 1:03:09
  not narrative, So you obviously have to get rid of that that other person
• 1:03:15
  with or they were an FBI informant or something else or what I'm saying.
• 1:03:22
  No, we're not, Like I said, it's in the FBI's basement.
• 1:03:25
  So yeah, we can only speculate at this point about who may have been
• 1:03:30
  Oswald's partner. Was it carlos Kroga, uh, you know, was it
• 1:03:37
  Kerry Thornley? I mean, who the hell knows at this point. No,
• 1:03:40
  Yeah, very hard to tell, but very two very rare films,
• 1:03:49
  The Doyle and the John T. Martin film. Obviously, the John T.
• 1:03:52
  Martin film on the Sexuore website, we showed you is ist we started.
• 1:03:59
  But uh, the Doyle film is very interesting too and shows you a
• 1:04:03
  different kind of perspective of it. And uh and I want to uh,
• 1:04:12
  Rob, and I also not want to kind of debunk a common myth that
• 1:04:17
  John T. Martin was as close as Doyle and started filming and I'm yeah,
• 1:04:24
  hol on, hold on, Rob sets it up. Are you find
• 1:04:28
  where he wants away? Yeah? Here, it's been a common misconception and
• 1:04:34
  this comes from the mid nineties description of the Martin film attributed to Martin.
• 1:04:42
  Shackelford says, and I don't know where he gets his information from, but
• 1:04:48
  he's describing the film and what what we see in the film. But he
• 1:04:54
  says quite clearly, Uh, aroused by a commotion on Canals Street, Martin
• 1:05:00
  crossed to see what was happening and began filming. Okay, now, Joe's
• 1:05:10
  going to show you a very interesting, ah graphic that we made, map
• 1:05:16
  that we found and made. So in the in the Martin film, we
• 1:05:21
  see the picture, uh top right, Yeah, it's in Jackson Squares.
• 1:05:29
  That's what's actually what's that That's where the horses. Yeah, that's yeah.
• 1:05:35
  It was not Lafiette Square. It was actually in Jackson Square. And I
• 1:05:40
  don't know who the statue is of, whether it's I might be Andrew Jackson
• 1:05:45
  held, that might be what it's called Jackson Square. Yeah, but that's
• 1:05:50
  where it was. It was way down Canal Street, I'm sorry, way
• 1:05:54
  down Decatur, down by the waterfront. Okay, so this is the last
• 1:06:02
  image on the Martin film before we get to the street fracas. Now follow
• 1:06:08
  along with Joe's cursor and count off the blocks from where John T. Martin
• 1:06:15
  was to where we gotta go. So we're coming up Decatur Street. One,
• 1:06:25
  So John John T. Martin and his supersonic hearing. Here's a commotion,
• 1:06:34
  seven eight, nine blocks before okay, even reach the bar. Now
• 1:06:41
  wait, now, nine blocks away from the Havana Bar, which is a
• 1:06:45
  Respenya's bar, which we'll get to more in a second. Right right beside
• 1:06:50
  it almost is the Casa Rocco, which is Carlos Brignier's store. All right,
• 1:06:56
  then we're on the corner of Decatur and Canal Street right here. If
• 1:07:00
  you make a right on the Canal Street and go up another how many blocks?
• 1:07:04
  One, two, three and a half four three or four. Yeah,
• 1:07:12
  that's where the street frack has happened. So there's no way in hell
• 1:07:16
  John T. Martin heard a commotion some twelve to fifteen blocks away in New
• 1:07:24
  Orleans and went racing over there to see what happened. That just did not
• 1:07:29
  happen, folks. That is a common misconception. So when you lay it
• 1:07:32
  all out on a map, you can see quite clearly there's no way in
• 1:07:36
  hell that he would have ever seen or heard, I'm sorry, a commotion
• 1:07:43
  to go check out. Now, that would lead and the course to the
• 1:07:50
  obvious question is how did Martin know to go to that location on Canal Street
• 1:07:59
  to get this on videotape. Well, let's let's rewind for a second and
• 1:08:06
  go back to a letter that Lee Harvey Oswall wrote to VT Lee on August
• 1:08:15
  the f This is eight days before the film is made, before this arrest
• 1:08:21
  happened. He writes a letter to VT Lee, who is the head of
• 1:08:27
  the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York, in which he states,
• 1:08:35
  let's see he tells me rented in office, and something about oh you got
• 1:08:53
  robbed for everything he was worth, and how it was be up by Cuban
• 1:08:56
  exiles on and this letter letter was written on August first, which would indicate
• 1:09:02
  that the previous another fracas or well, we'll get to that, but the
• 1:09:09
  one, the one that he wrote to VT. Lee, he reports that
• 1:09:15
  he'd been attacked by some Cuban exiles and the incident robbed me what support I
• 1:09:17
  had, leaving me alone. And Oswald also wrote that he was officially cautioned
• 1:09:21
  by the police. And of course this was written a whole week prior to
• 1:09:28
  when Oswald was actually arrested in the street fracus, so unless he could see
• 1:09:31
  into the future, there's no way that Oswald would have known that this was
• 1:09:34
  going to happen. What we found in the course of our investigation was that
• 1:09:42
  there may have possibly been another street fracus that Oswald was referring to in this
• 1:09:47
  VT. Lee letter, and really the only place we found anything about it
• 1:09:53
  was in H. Henry Hurt's book, in the Profession of Robert Easterling,
• 1:10:00
  chapter he writes this, while he is not sure of the date, Easterling
• 1:10:10
  insists that he witnessed an incident involving Oswald and the Habana bar that is unrecorded
• 1:10:16
  in standard accounts of Oswald's New Orleans activities. Easterling claims he came upon a
• 1:10:23
  sidewalk fracas on Decatur Street, near the doorway to the Habana Bar. Several
• 1:10:29
  Cubans were kicking and stomping a young man Easterling came to know as Oswald.
• 1:10:34
  As Easterling stood watching, Rivera rushed out of the bar with a broken beer
• 1:10:40
  bottle and forced the men to stop beating Oswald. Police officers arrived about that
• 1:10:45
  time, and the scuffle ended. Easterling claims that Oswald got up and without
• 1:10:49
  any comment, walked away. Easterling did not learn what the altercation was about,
• 1:10:58
  so it could be and we're speculating here that this is the fight that
• 1:11:10
  he wrote to VT. Lee about. But the problem with this fight is
• 1:11:15
  that nobody recorded it, nobody got arrested. So maybe we're thinking that the
• 1:11:24
  August ninth version of this was take two yeah, and that it was yeah,
• 1:11:33
  and that it was purposefully set up for John Martin to possibly record,
• 1:11:44
  and of course Doyle just happened to be there as well. And but when
• 1:11:50
  we get to our conclusion, we'll let you more in our working theories about
• 1:11:55
  why we think that that might have possibly happened. We'll get there, I
• 1:11:59
  promise, yeah. And I agree with Rob. I actually believe that you
• 1:12:08
  know, these were you know, low level type of assets trying to you
• 1:12:15
  know, sheep dip Oswalt at least in this I mean, not that Brenier
• 1:12:19
  was a little love asset, but you know, they didn't do it properly,
• 1:12:24
  so they had to redo it. And Oswaldt mistakenly sent out this letter
• 1:12:29
  possibly early, and then we know what happens after with the media campaign that
• 1:12:34
  follows the August nine fractics him wanting to get arrested and calling the FBI and
• 1:12:41
  then going on the TV with Brignier and the guy from INCA. And then
• 1:12:47
  there was a radio thing as well, wasn't there Rob, I don't think
• 1:12:50
  we've ever gotten that. Well, it was a TV broadcast, TV show.
• 1:12:57
  I thought there was a radio one as well, was a TV interview,
• 1:13:00
  and then there was a TV debate with bring A. Right, but
• 1:13:04
  we see like ten seconds of that who that video that debate would bring A
• 1:13:12
  on TV and the INCA guy, Well, there's a longer version in ten
• 1:13:16
  seconds. Oh, I mean, but it's not the full thing, because
• 1:13:21
  that would I've seen the full thing. I don't know what you've seen.
• 1:13:25
  Oh, I haven't seen the full thing. You're missing out, son.
• 1:13:29
  Yeah, well you know it. When you listen to Osbalt during that interview,
• 1:13:32
  you realize he's actually very well educated and not the loan not as he
• 1:13:43
  is commonly portrayed. So I actually haven't seen that. So still so much
• 1:13:51
  to discover. Where are we going next, Joe? Where where we could
• 1:14:01
  Cretan? Yeah, so let's do that. We did all the rest,
• 1:14:13
  We showed both films. We confirmed we have the right Martin. So let's
• 1:14:18
  go. Yeah. Today, here's the deal part of tracking this guy down,
• 1:14:28
  John T. Martin. Here's the question. Is this guy still alive?
• 1:14:34
  He would have been seventeen and sixty three. That put him at seventy
• 1:14:39
  seven seventy eight, so it's quite possible he could definitely still be alive.
• 1:14:45
  And we know that he was still alive as late as twenty thirteen, which
• 1:14:49
  was the fiftieth class reunion of his Cretan High School class of nineteen sixty three.
• 1:14:58
  As we have here, he made a couple of donations and deferred gifts
• 1:15:02
  to his alma mater YEP. The graphic on the right is of the fiftieth
• 1:15:11
  anniversary donation, and then on the left is a deferred gift. We actually
• 1:15:15
  there was only a couple instances where you had two asterisks next little guy's name.
• 1:15:20
  We think we actually think that means he might have actually made two different
• 1:15:25
  donations deferred gifts, maybe tax right offs, whatever, and that was a
• 1:15:30
  different year other than sixty three. That might have been, I mean,
• 1:15:33
  other than twenty thirteen, might have been twenty fourteen, or possibly the year
• 1:15:39
  before. But it's close to ten years that he has that. We found
• 1:15:46
  he's still been donating, and we have tried to find him during the current
• 1:15:55
  Creten sixty three class reunions, and that is a whole nother story of trying
• 1:16:04
  to to get that. Let me see this, so for those out there
• 1:16:10
  familiar with their math, you can do the math. Okay, Since it
• 1:16:14
  was just the sixtieth anniversary of the death of JFK and that was in nineteen
• 1:16:17
  sixty three, then it's time for another class reunion for Cretan, which will
• 1:16:23
  be the sixtieth, right. Yeah, So we tried to establish with folks
• 1:16:30
  that I know who live in Minnesota to try and track this guy down.
• 1:16:38
  And I'm talking We tried everything to find phone numbers, addresses, emailing the
• 1:16:45
  email the class. Yeah, well I even emailed the class reunion guy who
• 1:16:55
  was in charge of that got nowhere there. And interestingly enough, we did
• 1:17:00
  find that the class of nineteen sixty three meets at a certain bar in Saint
• 1:17:08
  Paul at every was it every second Thursday of the month. We even thought
• 1:17:15
  about sending somebody in there. We tried, We did try. The bottom
• 1:17:24
  line is we did not actually make contact with John T. Martin. We
• 1:17:29
  believe he still is alive, yes, and you know, we don't want
• 1:17:33
  to bother the man, but we do have questions and just to see if
• 1:17:38
  he'd be you know, we know that he did not want to ever be
• 1:17:45
  contacted regarding this again, but it seems like every big turn he's willing more
• 1:17:49
  than willing to volunteer his film to the cause. So, you know,
• 1:17:57
  it's been all these years later, and you know, if we could just
• 1:18:00
  give an interview with this guy too, you know, dispel miss and get
• 1:18:05
  the truth, that's all we were trying to do. We don't want to
• 1:18:10
  bug the man, We don't want to disrupt his life, all right or
• 1:18:14
  anything like that, but we wanted, actually we wanted showner to do it.
• 1:18:19
  We wanted we try, since they know each other, finish the story.
• 1:18:24
  Be like, this is your story. Here's the fucking baseball lined up
• 1:18:29
  on a tee for you. All you got to do is hit a home
• 1:18:31
  run and go to the place we tell you to and make contact with him
• 1:18:35
  again. Or here's his contact information. And uh, but he is a
• 1:18:41
  ghost. I mean, don't get you wrong. And Rob and I have
• 1:18:44
  a joke that creating we don't call it that, we call it spook Academy
• 1:18:50
  because almost everyone into went into like aerospace defense or something like that. And
• 1:18:57
  we did a little, a little digging a couple of people, but not
• 1:19:00
  really. We did some digging, you know, and we had very capable
• 1:19:08
  private detectives do some digging. And this guy is a ghost, folks.
• 1:19:12
  I mean to the point where I even had people in Canada looking because we
• 1:19:16
  thought he might have died a draft in the late sixties and headed to Canada.
• 1:19:20
  But yeah, we looked through the Vietnam death lists. We RP.
• 1:19:27
  I actually had a theory that this guy doesn't exist, but we found no,
• 1:19:32
  it's true, Yeah, this guy doesn't exist. Guys and We're like,
• 1:19:38
  well, we know his parents' namecoring to the airbook, We're pretty sure
• 1:19:45
  he does, but we're still trying to figure it out. And yeah,
• 1:19:51
  Minnesotian's hollow of us. Yeah. And to answer no true flags question,
• 1:19:57
  there any relation to the other Martin film guy also from Minnesota. We looked
• 1:20:01
  into that possibility because we know that John T. Martin was on vacation.
• 1:20:08
  Okay, so he's on summer vacation, you know, before he starts University
• 1:20:12
  of Minnesota in August to visit family. Yeah, I mean, why else
• 1:20:16
  would you go to Dallas from Minnesota, I mean not to sight see.
• 1:20:20
  I mean, there's nothing there. So it's possible that he was related to
• 1:20:25
  that person, John Martin Junior, who worked at the postal anay actually took
• 1:20:30
  to or Daily Plaza film. It's quite possible that guy, I believe at
• 1:20:34
  the time, was fifty two years old at the time in nineteen sixty three,
• 1:20:40
  so who knows if it was an uncle. It's possibly partly not old
• 1:20:46
  enough that he was a grandfather or anything like that, but it's definitely possible
• 1:20:50
  that they could have been related. You know, Martin's from Minnesota. They
• 1:20:55
  were obviously there visit family, and they probably had a family in New Orleans
• 1:21:00
  as well. We we tried to connect them for a long time, a
• 1:21:08
  long time, and hold On, it was almost a certainty this was a
• 1:21:15
  family member of some sort they were going to visit, and we couldn't do
• 1:21:18
  it for the documents. Hold On, Swin Johnson, I gotta tell you,
• 1:21:27
  we never said Brand Affairlines had direct flights from Dallas to New Orleans.
• 1:21:30
  Okay, he took Brand aff Airlines from Minnesota to Dallas. We do not
• 1:21:35
  know what airline he took from Dallas to New Orleans. Okay, so nice,
• 1:21:42
  try to pooh pooh, but uh sorry, we've we've looked into that.
• 1:21:48
  We've already looked into all that. We know there was no direct flights
• 1:21:51
  from Dallas to New Orleans on Bran aff Airlines, but we don't know that
• 1:21:55
  he was on Brand Affairlines. We know he was on brandaff from Minnesota to
• 1:22:00
  Dallas, been not necessarily Dallas to New Orleans. So and that is why
• 1:22:05
  we are sharing our documents with with serious researchers. Yeah, and if you
• 1:22:12
  want to see all of our documentation again, folks, head over to the
• 1:22:15
  description in this video to our locals community. Join up. It's five dollars
• 1:22:20
  a month. You have access to all of our files on John T.
• 1:22:26
  Martin and believe me, we got a ton of them and you can see
• 1:22:30
  them all and other perks like our TSBD. Yes, so let's let's finish
• 1:22:48
  this off here. I think I brought it up once prematurely. Of course,
• 1:23:00
  I like to do just like you ejaculate. Yes, that's you and
• 1:23:05
  my girlfriend they complained about the same thing. I'm just kidding. But this
• 1:23:10
  was one of the guys that we were able to point out from the fiftieth
• 1:23:14
  anniversary that we thought might look a lot like John T did in nineteen sixty
• 1:23:20
  three. Of course this is a complete hell, Mary, but we know
• 1:23:27
  that he is among those pictures, and we have a University of Minnesota photo
• 1:23:33
  as well, but we did not show that to you because we couldn't one
• 1:23:38
  hundred percent verify that it was John Thomas as compared to the other two John
• 1:23:45
  Martin's that were at University of Minnesota. It's just as John Martin. It
• 1:23:50
  looks very similar to him, but were we didn't want to show it if
• 1:23:57
  we didn't want to be one hundred percent sure and four from one hundred percent
• 1:24:00
  sure about this, but we wanted to show the similarity of this and how
• 1:24:09
  this is our current possible suspect. And listen, Rob is right, he's
• 1:24:14
  given his film to everyone every possible time. It's sixty years at least fifty
• 1:24:20
  five since the University of Martin or University of Martin, you know, that's
• 1:24:27
  what we're studying at University of Minnesota drama in nineteen sixty eight. So it's
• 1:24:33
  time to give a statement and say what you know? And you know,
• 1:24:40
  are we saying a seventeen year old kid that took a video was involved in
• 1:24:44
  the assassination? I'm not saying that. Are you saying that? Rong?
• 1:24:48
  No? I nodded yes and that I immediately went no, we're just joking.
• 1:24:54
  No. Now, when we get into our working theories, I will
• 1:24:57
  I may as searched something. Okay, we'll get want we may as well
• 1:25:00
  do that now then okay, fine, So based on everything, when you
• 1:25:12
  take everything into consideration, and I mean everything, what makes logical sense to
• 1:25:20
  me, and this is me, big bad Bob talking, not for nobody
• 1:25:25
  else. What it seems to me is that a young seventeen year old John
• 1:25:33
  T. Martin was corresponding with General Edwin Walker, as both being part of
• 1:25:42
  the Miniment organization. General Walker had been in the news recently. He may
• 1:25:48
  have started corresponding with General Walker through the mail. He may have let General
• 1:25:56
  Walker know, Hey, my family is coming to down us on vacation.
• 1:26:01
  It'd be nice to stop by and see you and meet you in person and
• 1:26:04
  maybe have a chat. So they go to Dallas. He shows up at
• 1:26:13
  General Walker's house and he's got a whole movie camera. Oh yeah, video
• 1:26:17
  camera. Huh. Notice General Walker himself is not in the footage. You
• 1:26:24
  would think that you would want somebody to take your picture a selfie with yeah
• 1:26:30
  sixty three version of a selfie, you know where you would have got one
• 1:26:33
  of General Walker's houseboys to hold the camera while you know, you got your
• 1:26:40
  arm around General Walker and maybe one hand on his crych you know something,
• 1:26:45
  you know. But anyway, there's no General Walker in the footage. It's
• 1:26:48
  just his house, okay. But it's also shows the interior of his house,
• 1:26:54
  which tells me that General Walker had John T. Martin inside of his
• 1:27:01
  house, excuse me, And if he was inside of his house, they
• 1:27:08
  had a conversation and of course, it probably went a little something like this,
• 1:27:12
  how can I help sir. You know. They probably talked about extreme
• 1:27:17
  right wing things, the Minute Men type stuff, blah blah blah. He
• 1:27:23
  probably mentioned a Walker. Hey, you know, me and my family are
• 1:27:26
  headed over to New Orleans next and General Walker said, oh you are.
• 1:27:31
  Why don't you look up a fellow by the name of Guy Banister when you
• 1:27:33
  get there. He's a fellow of Minute Men. You know, maybe you
• 1:27:36
  can talk to him and see what's going on over there. So he does.
• 1:27:44
  He goes to New Orleans. He goes to the office of Guy Banister,
• 1:27:48
  looks him up, and Guy Banister looks at this young fellow and sees
• 1:27:53
  that he has a movie camera and says, hey, you know what,
• 1:27:54
  young boy, He said, how about how about four o'clock you head over
• 1:28:00
  to Canal Street and see if you can catch a fellow getting arrested on film
• 1:28:06
  for me? Okay, And maybe that spooked him. Maybe his family had
• 1:28:18
  to leave, or they had to go out to eat, or he never
• 1:28:20
  got back to talk to Banister about anything, or maybe they just left New
• 1:28:27
  Orleans. Maybe he was supposed to meet back up with Banister and give him
• 1:28:30
  the footage. I don't know, but anyway, to me, that seems
• 1:28:38
  like the only logical turn of events that explains the Martin film that we have
• 1:28:46
  today. And again this pure speculation minds you. On my part, I'm
• 1:28:51
  just taking you through the logical journey in my head as to what could possibly
• 1:28:56
  happen. But you know, Joe might think differently. So yes, this
• 1:29:01
  is one of the Actually I agree with Rob in most every aspect except we
• 1:29:08
  disagree on one very small aspect. And that's again, what we're trying to
• 1:29:13
  do here is we're trying to have logical, critical thinking debate and come up
• 1:29:19
  with the most plausible scenario. And again, this scenario of how he was
• 1:29:27
  directed or to film the practice was confirmed by the only person who've seen him
• 1:29:34
  alive, which was Gary Schener, who said that that makes a lot of
• 1:29:38
  sense. And I think if he was in Dallas on a family trip and
• 1:29:45
  he stopped by his hero's house, which is General Walker, he goes inside,
• 1:29:49
  he has a conversation with him, he goes, how can I help
• 1:29:57
  I. I find it more improbable for them to be going to Minnesota to
• 1:30:02
  Dallas to New Orleans. I think John t might have gone on his own
• 1:30:06
  to Dallas, and Rob and I have gone back and forth. And while
• 1:30:11
  he was only a seventeen year old kid, how would he get the plane
• 1:30:15
  flight? Would his parents e would let him? But as someone that graduated
• 1:30:17
  from military school, I had the utmost trust, probably more than I have
• 1:30:21
  not for my parents, and I could have probably pulled that off, especially
• 1:30:28
  if you're thinking in nineteen sixty three in the South, even though they are
• 1:30:31
  from the north. So I think he was possibly directed to go there at
• 1:30:35
  once. Walker saw that he had a video camera to contact someone like Gy
• 1:30:41
  Banister or someone on the far right involved with the sheet dipping off Oswalt.
• 1:30:46
  But how he got there is not extremely critical to this whole story. But
• 1:30:58
  the fact is he got there, and we believe he was instructed to film
• 1:31:03
  this August ninth fracas because either the previous fracas didn't get the attention it deserved,
• 1:31:11
  or because he wanted to help out and they general Walker took advantage of
• 1:31:23
  his eagerness and and you know it's it's not a far flight from Dallast to
• 1:31:32
  New Orleans, even in sixty three, and I think he could have probably
• 1:31:38
  convinced his parents to go by himself for a day or two. There's no
• 1:31:42
  pick obviously, pictures of his family, which you would think you would want
• 1:31:45
  to kind of document was known in Dallas either. Yes, so that is
• 1:31:51
  something we are disagree on in a little way. And how he got there,
• 1:31:57
  but he got there to get this on tape, and then the campaign
• 1:32:02
  began, right there's an undeniable campaign to sheep did Oswald after this event,
• 1:32:10
  right from the pleading guilty to that to the and then we showed you the
• 1:32:13
  VT lip let VT lead letter on August first. So there's a lot of
• 1:32:19
  interesting things of the story that John t could could clear up for us.
• 1:32:24
  It would be small pieces of the puzzle. But you know where we continue
• 1:32:30
  to try so and theorize and let's see what the chat is saying about it.
• 1:32:41
  Yeah, there's a couple of questions about when this occurred. And it
• 1:32:49
  wasn't days. So how many days after the shooting at Walker's. This was
• 1:32:55
  months. The shooting happened in April. This was in August. Yeah,
• 1:32:59
  you have to think that it was early August. If he's going to New
• 1:33:03
  Orleans by August ninth. To catch that on fractae AE minute man Martin needs
• 1:33:12
  to be found and asked for sure, did he say he actually met Walker
• 1:33:16
  in New in in Dallas, No ship, Yeah. They Weisberg and Schoener
• 1:33:25
  were only concerned about the Oswald portion of this film. They could have cared
• 1:33:30
  less about the Walker portion. They never did put two and two together and
• 1:33:34
  figure out, you know, how much importance that it was, or what
• 1:33:39
  the astronomical odds of General Walker's house being on the same role of film as
• 1:33:50
  the guy who supposedly shot at his house and murdered the president on the same
• 1:33:57
  reel of film back to back. The odds of that happening organically are just
• 1:34:01
  too astronomical to even think about. But to illustrate a little something about General
• 1:34:09
  Walker. Where was General Walker on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
• 1:34:15
  He was in Do you have an answer? No? Could you know the
• 1:34:18
  answer? He was in New Orleans, folks, Okay? And I got
• 1:34:26
  a document here from the Louisiana State Police who were surveilling General Edwin Walker from
• 1:34:33
  November the twentieth, when he got there in New Orleans until the morning of
• 1:34:40
  the twenty second when he left. And it says on November the twentieth,
• 1:34:45
  nineteen sixty three, at about eleven am, I informed mister Frank Manning of
• 1:34:48
  the Attorney General's Office of a mysterious meeting the above subject had in Judge Leander
• 1:34:55
  Perez's office in the National American Bank Building. Later, there was also a
• 1:34:59
  meeting at the National Bank of Commerce in the National Bank of Commerce Garage Building.
• 1:35:04
  While I was not in the meeting room proper, but noticed several of
• 1:35:10
  the people that were in a tennis there. I noted that especially one Joseph
• 1:35:15
  Newborough was there. Now they also go at the bottom They go on to
• 1:35:20
  say Joe Newborough is considered to be a very dangerous individual. His record is
• 1:35:27
  available from the FBI. Jack Martin has been missing from the city. However,
• 1:35:34
  I understand he was seen a couple of days ago and that he had
• 1:35:36
  grown a Van Dyke beard. He is also a dangerous psychopath. He has
• 1:35:42
  a long record in mental institutions. His record is also available by the FBI.
• 1:35:48
  Now this is coming from the Louisiana State Police. Folks. Joe Newborough
• 1:35:56
  worked with Jack Martin and a private detective office. He was also worked with
• 1:36:00
  Guy Banister at one point as well. So all of these people are interconnected.
• 1:36:09
  All of these people you think about in New Orleans, like Martin Banister
• 1:36:15
  Walker knows them, Walker knows him. Judge Leanda Perez is one of the
• 1:36:20
  biggest, richest bigots anti communists you ever want to meet. And he had
• 1:36:28
  deep, deep pockets and they say Thursday eleven, twenty one, sixty three,
• 1:36:39
  eight pm, General Walker had another meeting and had approximately ninety people there.
• 1:36:45
  I talked to General Walker for quite some time, asking his acquaintance,
• 1:36:48
  and did not leave the hotel until about one am, but I was unable
• 1:36:53
  to learn of anything of any importance. There was evidently no further activity on
• 1:36:57
  the General's part, and I was unable to learn what time the General left
• 1:37:00
  the city. I understand mister Newborough was recently convicted of a federal offense and
• 1:37:05
  involving use of the mails to defraud that mister Newborough was also in the Marines
• 1:37:12
  was an expert in jiu jitsuism. Mister Newborough was also very friendly with one
• 1:37:19
  Jack Martin. Mister Jack Martin is the man who filed a petition with the
• 1:37:24
  State Central Committee in an endeavor to disqualify mister Grimmelian as a candidate for Attorney
• 1:37:30
  General on the grounds he had been convicted on federal grounds, and so forth,
• 1:37:34
  and so forth. We know that this was done by mister Martin on
• 1:37:38
  the instructions of mister Leander Perez. Mister Martin's correct name is Edward Stuart Subbs.
• 1:37:44
  He was born in Arizona and he was about forty four years old.
• 1:37:46
  He appears to have a long criminal record and has wanted from murder somewhere around
• 1:37:49
  Dallas or San Antonio. I'm not yet aware of the full disposition of these
• 1:37:55
  murder charges, respectfully submitted to Special Age number four nine one. So you
• 1:38:04
  know they were watching Edwin Walker in New Orleans as he's associating with all of
• 1:38:13
  these people who we believe were involved in somehow in sheep dipping Oswald and possibly
• 1:38:21
  the assassination itself. So very interesting stuff. Yes, we got one question
• 1:38:30
  he was on a plane bragging about his alibi, and then another comment he
• 1:38:36
  got signatures exclamation part. Yes, he wanted to do to establish his alibi
• 1:38:46
  very very carefully. Is that true? Rot? What's that that he was
• 1:38:57
  on the plane during the time of the assassination. No, he didn't leave
• 1:39:01
  New Orleans until the morning on the twenty second, Right, well, he
• 1:39:04
  spent the night of New Orleans of November twenty second in Shreveport, Louisiana,
• 1:39:10
  which will actually come into play in our I'm sorry, our James Herbert Martin
• 1:39:16
  presentation. But Shreveport, Louisiana, if you go and look out a map,
• 1:39:21
  is almost the exact halfway point that one would travel going to Dallas and
• 1:39:30
  New Orleans. But he did spend the night in Shreveport, Louisiana. He
• 1:39:34
  did fly there, I believe. And then, of course, as we
• 1:39:43
  all know, or a lot of us know, he was on the phone
• 1:39:45
  with the German newspaper at seventy am the next morning, telling the newspaper how
• 1:39:50
  Oswalt shot at him as well, so allegedly allegedly ther funstruct oh, I
• 1:40:01
  can't pronounce the name of that newspaper, and we oh you did. You're
• 1:40:08
  better than me. Uh. I tried to find a hard copy of that,
• 1:40:12
  that uh newspaper. But there are documents about him talking to them.
• 1:40:21
  So, Joe, you got anything left in the in the pipeline, because
• 1:40:25
  I got one other thing we need to cover out of here. Fire away.
• 1:40:29
  We are past our we are past our hour, well past our hour.
• 1:40:35
  This is one other things to include here. We wanted to go into
• 1:40:40
  the context. We would be remiss if I didn't point this out, okay,
• 1:40:45
  because I came across some very interesting stuff when it comes to the University
• 1:40:50
  of Minnesota itself and being a hub for the intelligence agencies in the nineteen sixties,
• 1:41:05
  And I came across some very important documents that are all in the repository.
• 1:41:14
  I'm going to upload them here when we get done this show. It
• 1:41:19
  is the Report to President Malcolm Mouse on political Surveillance at the University of Minnesota
• 1:41:28
  from Eugene Idenberg, the Assistant Vice President of Administration, University of Minnesota.
• 1:41:34
  Now, I'm not going to read the entire forty page report to you here,
• 1:41:38
  but I will excuse me highlight some of the table of contents for you
• 1:41:45
  and go over a little bit of the introduction. But it goes over administrations
• 1:41:49
  or Admissions and records, University Police Department, Foreign Students, Surveillance, other
• 1:41:56
  university practices, interviews nineteen sixty eight, Policy on Student Records nineteen sixty six,
• 1:42:03
  Policy on Photo Surveillance of rallies and Demonstrations, Admissions and Records, Forms
• 1:42:10
  for applying to requests for information copies of weekly intelligence reports to the Governor of
• 1:42:15
  the State. Policy Memo from Director of Admissions and Records to Staff, nineteen
• 1:42:20
  seventy one, CLA Information Policy, So a little bit of this introduction.
• 1:42:30
  So this report has been prepared after careful research and analysis of information given to
• 1:42:35
  me by individuals who have been in a position to know about the relationship between
• 1:42:40
  federal intelligence agencies and the University of Minnesota. While I've talked with many people
• 1:42:46
  in conducting this inquiry, no one reading this report should assume that all persons
• 1:42:49
  with knowledge of this issue involved have been reached necessary limits of time and relevance
• 1:42:56
  of information have required that I make some judgments about the limits of the investment
• 1:43:00
  mistigation and about what would constitute necessary and sufficient information to answer fully the questions
• 1:43:04
  before the University. This report reaches you after more than twenty interviews with people
• 1:43:10
  who had information would be helpful to the inquiry. Relevant documents, photographs,
• 1:43:15
  memory, and the newspaper articles have been collected and analyzed, and I've conducted
• 1:43:18
  a thorough search of the University Police Department's files in the course of this investigation.
• 1:43:26
  So it goes on and on, blah blah, blah blah blah,
• 1:43:29
  right, and something popped off. On January the first, nineteen seventy one
• 1:43:41
  CBS Evening used evening newscarecter report from mister Richard Cason, former military intelligence agents
• 1:43:47
  assigned to the Special Investigation Branch of the one hundred and thirteenth Region V or
• 1:43:53
  Region five, that confirmed the earlier NBC program and further alleged that agents from
• 1:43:58
  the one hundred and thirteenth had ready and complete access to the files of the
• 1:44:01
  university's Admissions and Records department, and that foreign students have been subjected to lighted
• 1:44:06
  tective tests admitted administered by the officials of the one hundred and thirteenth unit.
• 1:44:13
  Two photos alleged to have come from the files of the University of Minnesota Police
• 1:44:16
  Department were displayed on the program as examples of the information sharing practices between the
• 1:44:21
  Police Department and military intelligence. It appears that investigating officers of federal agencies have
• 1:44:29
  had regular access to student records and files in the Office of Admissions. These
• 1:44:34
  include completed application forms, transcripts from high school memos, placing holds on registration
• 1:44:42
  memos, clearing holds residents applications, letters, from counselors or parents, petitions
• 1:44:48
  for exceptions to rules, evaluations of work taken at other colleges, achievements,
• 1:44:54
  aptitude test scores, university transcripts, letters of inquiry, copies of university.
• 1:45:00
  He corresponds with students, counseling reports, summaries, name changes, joint registration
• 1:45:05
  applications, notes based on discussions with the student, degree applications. The only
• 1:45:12
  thing that doesn't cover is medical records. Pretty much. Yeah, they were
• 1:45:17
  all over So this is just the tip of the Iceberg folks. And they
• 1:45:24
  had the CIA on campus, they had the FBI on campus, they had
• 1:45:28
  military intelligence on campus. And a very funny thing, just to relate this
• 1:45:33
  little quick story Joe, about when Harold Wiseberg and Gary Schoener were at the
• 1:45:41
  University of Minnesota doing during their speech, somebody pointed out to Harold Wiseberg that
• 1:45:47
  there was two guys in the audience recording his speech, and so he called
• 1:45:55
  him out in front of everybody, and they got up and left. That's
• 1:46:00
  so funny, But that actually makes me think of something I was thinking about
• 1:46:04
  this morning. So we've told the audience how long we've been working on these
• 1:46:10
  martins, and how many deep dives and a year we spent trying to figure
• 1:46:16
  out which was which, which was related to which was John T. Martin
• 1:46:19
  related visiting John Martin Junior at the you know in Dallas, things like that,
• 1:46:27
  and we we just completely were actually I completely forgot when I was going
• 1:46:42
  with that. Can you help me out here, hi, Caroline? Yes,
• 1:46:45
  she came up fashionably late again, so she rumor has it she was
• 1:46:50
  vacuumting the carpet this time. Oh so do you think they were comedy hunting
• 1:46:55
  on campus, because you know, obviously the North there would be more.
• 1:46:58
  I think it was a lot of spying in general, not just on comedies,
• 1:47:01
  but on what they call them foreign nationals, even even American students.
• 1:47:11
  I mean, and it all got exposed in like the early seventies and all
• 1:47:15
  this all this shit hit the fan because of it. But I'm sure it
• 1:47:18
  wasn't just going on on the University of Minnesota campus. I'm sure there's any
• 1:47:23
  big campus, you know, throughout the United States. Back then, you
• 1:47:27
  know, they had the the university police sharing information with military intelligence, FBI,
• 1:47:33
  CIA. They were keeping tight tabs on what everybody was doing back then,
• 1:47:39
  because this is high time for demonstrations and things like that. So yeah,
• 1:47:46
  I completely agree, and I remember where I was going with that.
• 1:47:51
  I was like, who do you think the person and the ic that's assigned
• 1:47:56
  to us, I think he's gotten nuts trying to keep up with some all
• 1:48:00
  these markings so far as a given up. It's just like this fuck.
• 1:48:04
  Literally right before, well about ten minutes before we went live, I'm trying
• 1:48:10
  to call Joe on the telephone. We connected. I mean, and this
• 1:48:15
  is just regular telephone. This is not like through Messenger or anything else.
• 1:48:19
  This is on a telephone. We literally connected, and we're disconnected five times
• 1:48:26
  in a row, six or seven maybe, yeah. I mean we'd be
• 1:48:30
  like, hey, what's up to click and it said server unavailable on my
• 1:48:34
  end. I don't know what it said on your end. Yeah, it
• 1:48:39
  just dropped and uh, and then you know, you have the It's funny
• 1:48:42
  because when we're recording, it was me with the internet issues. So how
• 1:48:45
  does a cell phone not be able to reach the server? Because I wasn't
• 1:48:49
  even on Wi Fi calling, it was neither took it on and off land
• 1:48:55
  based you know, cell tower calling. I think that's just there. Their
• 1:49:00
  only answer is to try to make it difficult because they can't keep up with
• 1:49:03
  the research. Who is this? They can try, they can they go
• 1:49:08
  back a year plus of messages and like ten minute voice like three times a
• 1:49:13
  day. They might be able to. But uh, let's let's try to
• 1:49:15
  wrap this up now, you know, we definitely do you wanna do you
• 1:49:21
  wanna start in terms of uh, final thoughts on John T. And I
• 1:49:26
  maybe ideas for kind of taking it forward. Yeah, yeah, So I'm
• 1:49:31
  glad we were able to dispel some of the common myths about the John T.
• 1:49:36
  Martin over the years, and and inform a lot of people about the
• 1:49:42
  movie itself and the various incarnations of it through the years, and just how
• 1:49:48
  rare that it is. I mean, we were even in contact with Robert
• 1:49:51
  Grodin to try to get his copy of the Martin film, and you know,
• 1:50:00
  he couldn't find it or it only contained the Oswald portion. Things like
• 1:50:06
  that so long, yeah, or it is a thousand feet long thirty five
• 1:50:12
  millimeter but then again it only contained the Oswald portion. So good thing we
• 1:50:16
  didn't pay to have that digitized. But the important thing is, you know,
• 1:50:24
  to keep in mind, is you know, to respectfully, you know,
• 1:50:28
  if anybody continues his research, and we're not done yet either to try
• 1:50:33
  to contact this guy and just see if he's willing to have a discussion.
• 1:50:38
  That's all because I think there's a lot of questions out there that still need
• 1:50:41
  to be answered about things regarding his film and his experiences. And you know,
• 1:50:50
  that's all I really wanted to say about that is just if you if
• 1:50:53
  you come across this guy, or you try to contact and be respectful,
• 1:50:58
  and you know, obviously he wants his privacy, but again for good reason.
• 1:51:04
  Yeah, you know, things change after ten years. He's its history,
• 1:51:12
  to be honest, he is its history to to say exactly what happened.
• 1:51:15
  And I don't think anyone in their rational mind thinks that this guy was
• 1:51:21
  part of anything. But why you would want to stay out of it,
• 1:51:25
  I totally get. But at this point, you know, six years after
• 1:51:32
  fifty five, from sixty eight, he's given it, his film to almost
• 1:51:38
  everyone. Why not give a statement with it? It makes no sense.
• 1:51:44
  And also the fact that he's pretty much disappeared doesn't help either and just fuels
• 1:51:51
  these things. And you know, we love to talk to him, We
• 1:51:59
  hope to and we hope to have a part two on the John T.
• 1:52:02
  Martin Show, hopefully, but we have many more to get to and we'll
• 1:52:08
  have all our John T files up at locals as well as maybe something in
• 1:52:17
  the secret TESPD And I don't know, do I think this was a very
• 1:52:24
  good episode. We're kind of closing on two hours, so we definitely didn't
• 1:52:30
  stick to our plan here of keeping short and suitet. But this was an
• 1:52:34
  important show and to deserve the context that we needed to give it, and
• 1:52:42
  that's you know. Our first show was kind of a summary. We went
• 1:52:45
  to the most known Martin but now we're getting into the weeds a little more.
• 1:52:49
  And if you think this was interesting, just wait and Rob I'll let
• 1:52:55
  you close it out with that. Thank you everyone for joining us. Yes,
• 1:53:00
  once again, this show needed to be this long to get all this
• 1:53:02
  information out, and we told you it was hard to condense this thing into
• 1:53:08
  a fifteen minute part of our Lancer presentation, but we did it. But
• 1:53:13
  here you get everything two hours worth. Like I said, if you want
• 1:53:17
  all the files, access to everything we got, head over to the locals
• 1:53:21
  link in the description and we'll have them up there here in a few minutes.
• 1:53:27
  And Jay much better turnout than I thought we were going to get today.
• 1:53:31
  I mean, we were consistently thirty or forty people in here all the
• 1:53:34
  time, so that's awesome. Much appreciated. Thank you for your support everyone,
• 1:53:40
  the love you showed us, the super Chat superstickers. We greatly appreciate
• 1:53:44
  it and we will see you next time. Folks. Take care, Yes,
• 1:53:50
  enjoyer or so we got peace, Pe