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Young Guns: When The Newspaper Writes The Legend · Have You Seen?! The Movie Podcast

• 0:19
  Dylan: Welcome to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast, where every movie is a premiere.
• 0:24
  Joe: Our month of Westerns continues, and this week we're trading blazing saddles for young guns.
• 0:29
  Joe: We've got Billy the Kid, a ridiculously stacked young cast.
• 0:33
  Joe: If you're enjoying the show, make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app and leave us a five-star rating.
• 0:38
  Joe: It really helps us grow.
• 0:40
  Joe: And we want to hear from you.
• 0:41
  Dylan: Text us your name and a movie suggestion using the link in the description.
• 0:45
  Joe: Young Guns is rated R for Western violence, language, and some mature content.
• 0:50
  Joe: If that's not suitable for little ears, we hope you'll tune in next week.
• 0:55
  Dylan: It's rated R.
• 0:57
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 0:57
  Dylan: I mean, I could see this one being rated R more than Tombstone was.
• 1:02
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:03
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:05
  Dylan: So before we jump into the movie, let's talk about how we watched it.
• 1:10
  Joe: Uh we watched it on 4K on the 35th anniversary edition.
• 1:16
  Joe: Um as we were talking about doing this episode, I got it last minute and uh found it on the Lionsgate website.
• 1:23
  Joe: So it came out in 2023, and I managed to find a copy.
• 1:28
  Joe: So that's pretty cool.
• 1:29
  Joe: There it's pretty high priced on on eBay right now.
• 1:33
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:34
  Dylan: So and you got you ended up getting the steel book of it.
• 1:40
  Joe: Uh-huh.
• 1:40
  Joe: So it comes with playing cards.
• 1:42
  Joe: I'll probably post that when this episode comes out.
• 1:46
  Joe: Uh playing cards of each character and uh just some cool stuff in it.
• 1:51
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:51
  Dylan: And you were saying with this one, it was what do they call it?
• 1:57
  Dylan: The warehouse finds?
• 1:58
  Joe: Oh, yeah, it's called warehouse finds.
• 2:01
  Joe: Um, and they just have like they find random uh merch in in their shops and resell them.
• 2:10
  Joe: Interesting.
• 2:12
  Joe: Um so then the picture quality is 16 by 9, a 1891 aspect ratio.
• 2:19
  Joe: Uh audio was Dolby Atmos, which we could tell right off the bat.
• 2:24
  Joe: Oh yeah.
• 2:27
  Joe: Um this transfer, you know, blew me away.
• 2:32
  Joe: Uh the earlier Blu-ray release was not the greatest.
• 2:36
  Joe: Yeah.
• 2:36
  Joe: Um, it was okay, but you know, anything's a step up from VHS, but but this was like the way it was meant to be seen.
• 2:47
  Joe: Uh, and then the special features uh that were included.
• 2:52
  Joe: Uh the previous disc didn't have very many, if at all.
• 2:56
  Joe: Like there was no commentary, there's only a documentary about Billy the kid.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:01
  Joe: And so this one had a full-on um, you know, behind the scenes of the making of the movie.
• 3:07
  Joe: There's uh audio commentary from different actors.
• 3:11
  Joe: So it was it was yeah, way better.
• 3:16
  Dylan: Yeah, the first movie that I had watched like that that had the commentary with it, or the at least that I listened to the commentary with it, yeah, was for Project Hail Mary.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:28
  Dylan: And uh yeah, I definitely get why like something like that is so important when kind of doing your research for it and for behind the scenes stuff, because it's really fun to hear them chime in on stuff.
• 3:43
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 3:45
  Dylan: So all right, Joe, let's talk about young guns.
• 3:49
  Dylan: All right.
• 3:51
  Dylan: So when did it come out?
• 3:53
  Dylan: 1988.
• 3:55
  Joe: Okay.
• 3:56
  Joe: It was directed by Christopher Cain.
• 3:59
  Joe: Uh he had previously done uh a movie called That Was Then, This Is Now with Emilo Estevez, which was an S.E.
• 4:08
  Joe: Hinton uh book that was turned into a more modernized uh version.
• 4:14
  Joe: Okay.
• 4:15
  Joe: So like all her books were all kind of like you know, the S.E.
• 4:20
  Joe: Hinton verse before uh Marvel.
• 4:23
  Joe: Yeah.
• 4:24
  Joe: And so like there was a lot of crossover, but there's you there's crossover characters, but it gets a little confusing if you know the characters from the previous like outsiders and all that other stuff, because it's like okay, these aren't the same people, and they're like the only thing they have in common is the name, yeah, yeah.
• 4:41
  Joe: And it's like instead of greasers, it's punk rockers and stuff, so it's it doesn't really translate anyway.
• 4:48
  Joe: Um he was also the producer and screenwriter.
• 4:54
  Joe: Um, so he had previously done Crossroads, uh, which the best way I can explain it was uh so it's with Ralph Macchio.
• 5:04
  Joe: So it was like karate kid but with guitars.
• 5:09
  Joe: Okay.
• 5:10
  Joe: So he wanted to do a Billy the Kid story uh that pierces the myth of what people think of him.
• 5:19
  Joe: Oh okay, and so he would, you know, he's seen old pictures of him, and he was like, you know, the way he's depicted in movies is a lot older.
• 5:28
  Joe: Yeah, he was only in his twenties.
• 5:30
  Joe: Like we should show like like the cowboys that were of this time at their age, um, and what they would actually, you know, a 20-something uh, you know, cowboy, you know, it's gonna be different than an older, like the tombstone guys, yeah.
• 5:49
  Joe: Right.
• 5:50
  Joe: So less weathered, yeah, less weathered.
• 5:56
  Joe: So it's based around the Lincoln County War of 1878.
• 6:01
  Joe: So Billy the kid and several other characters in this movie are based on historical figures.
• 6:07
  Joe: Um, I think there's one or two that weren't as young, but still in that age, like in the range, but just they made them younger to kind of fit in with the rest of the you know.
• 6:20
  Joe: Um the real Chavez did not look like Lou Diamond Pillows.
• 6:27
  Joe: Um he looked he looked more like the guy who plays Machete.
• 6:32
  Joe: I don't know if you've ever heard Danny Trejo.
• 6:35
  Joe: Uh anyway, um yeah, it it was part of the 80s, 90s Western revival.
• 6:43
  Joe: So this kind of started the catalyst for unforgiven, and you know, so okay.
• 6:50
  Dylan: Yeah, the it's so funny, like thinking of like the you know, like you said, the 80s and 90s Western revival, because it's like now, like it's all I feel like a lot of like thought behind kind of westerns are like, you know, oh granddad used to, you know, watch them in black and white back in the day.
• 7:16
  Dylan: Yeah, you know, just real old timey stuff.
• 7:20
  Dylan: Right.
• 7:20
  Joe: Yeah, the rifleman and all that kind of you know, right, uh bonanza, you know, the old shoot 'em ups.
• 7:31
  Joe: Um yeah, it it it definitely modernized things and it gave a different perspective and wasn't as like overdramatic, I guess, in some ways.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Joe: So going into this, what was your idea of Billy the kid?
• 7:50
  Dylan: I feel like most of what I remember about him was just kind of like the the myth around him and how like just this, you know, crazy quick draw, good shot, you know, everything like that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:12
  Dylan: You know, all of the folklore?
• 8:17
  Dylan: Yes.
• 8:18
  Dylan: Thank you.
• 8:20
  Dylan: Yeah, just all of like the folklore stories.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: The ballad of Billy the Kid, right, all that kind of stuff.
• 8:28
  Dylan: So yeah, it was definitely an interesting like eye-opener, if you will, of kind of how like stories were getting like misconstrued and blown up into big proportions.
• 8:45
  Joe: Yeah, you know, it's funny, there was a guy who was shopping at a thrift store and bought a frame and there was an old picture in it, and it turned out to be it was a scene of people playing um was in golf.
• 8:59
  Joe: What is the little where they kind of knock the uh croquet?
• 9:03
  Joe: Croquet, yeah.
• 9:04
  Joe: So it was a scene of people playing proc croquet, and uh so he examined the picture more, and it happened to be Billy the Kid and other people who were part of his thing playing croquet, and there were some you know, women and and it would look like a kind of typical family party kind of thing, yeah.
• 9:24
  Joe: But he zoomed in and it was Billy the Kid.
• 9:27
  Joe: Wow, it was like I forget how many millions of dollars it was worth.
• 9:31
  Joe: Oh gosh.
• 9:32
  Joe: It's the only other known picture of him.
• 9:35
  Joe: So yeah.
• 9:37
  Joe: So even in that light, you would never think of Billy the Kid playing croquet.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:45
  Dylan: If you haven't seen it in a while, here's the quick setup.
• 9:48
  Dylan: In 1870s New Mexico, rancher John Tunstall takes in a group of young outsiders and gives them work, education, and a place to belong.
• 9:58
  Dylan: When Tunstall is murdered as part of a violent local power struggle, his young ranch hands are deputized to bring those responsible to justice.
• 10:07
  Dylan: But with the unpredictable William H.
• 10:10
  Dylan: Bonnie, better known as Billy the Kid, among them, their pursuit of justice quickly turns into something much more dangerous, transforming the young men from regulators of the law into some of the West's most notorious fugitives.
• 10:25
  Dylan: Yeah, so like watching how like the scenes would play out and then how they would be written about like in the newspaper was so funny about how like it just got blown way out of proportion, and yeah, yeah.
• 10:47
  Dylan: It was always, you know, one man rides alone and takes out 20 men.
• 10:53
  Joe: Yeah, and it was like uh like Dick Brewer ended up being like blamed for all the Billy the Kid stuff.
• 11:00
  Joe: Right.
• 11:02
  Dylan: Yeah, the stories in there were just what Right, just so blown out of proportion.
• 11:08
  Dylan: And especially like going through our Western month and really um like kind of holding it to what a s you know, quote unquote standard Western is, like it definitely doesn't necessarily match up, you know, shot for shot, if you will, but it definitely holds up on its own, you know, in its own right.
• 11:33
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Dylan: So yeah, I was surprised that it came out in 88.
• 11:39
  Dylan: It definitely definitely was able to hold up on its own kind of it still had a lot of that modern feeling to it.
• 11:50
  Joe: Yeah, it um they definitely try to make it authentic as authentic as they could, yeah, but also updated.
• 11:59
  Dylan: Right.
• 12:00
  Dylan: Um with how well like Billy the kid was able to like you know integrate into that group and you know get along with the other other boys.
• 12:14
  Dylan: Um I kind of wondered if it was like another um standby me.
• 12:23
  Joe: Oh, okay.
• 12:24
  Dylan: Where he would like pretty much keep all the boys together, uh-huh, you know?
• 12:28
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:29
  Dylan: I was like, I could see that happening just with how they communicated with each other.
• 12:34
  Joe: And uh I was just gonna mention the fact that with all those newspaper clippings, how I think he Doc kind of says something like, This this world needs a hero or something like that, you know.
• 12:47
  Joe: It's like because they're just making these you know crazy stories that sound so heroic and you know.
• 12:56
  Dylan: So what was your first time watching Young Guns like?
• 13:01
  Dylan: Because this is definitely up there on the list for you, right?
• 13:04
  Joe: It is, it is, and I realize like not spoilers for uh ratings later, yeah.
• 13:10
  Joe: I think this movie was in the time where my aunt wasn't watching me as much, so I didn't go to the movies as much.
• 13:18
  Joe: Okay.
• 13:18
  Joe: Um, but yeah, I definitely remember in high school re-watching it with friends because a friend of mine, uh we were all in drumline together, and he we used to call him Charlie Sheen.
• 13:33
  Joe: And uh, so he was he to us, he was more like the the Dick Brewer guy, uh act uh character uh of Charlie Sheen in this.
• 13:44
  Joe: So we would just you know, we would call him Charlie.
• 13:49
  Joe: So I remember watching that with the guys and just like quoting it, you know.
• 13:54
  Joe: Yeah.
• 13:57
  Dylan: All right, so let's talk about the regulators.
• 14:00
  Dylan: So starting off, of course, we have Billy the Kid, played by Emilio Esteves.
• 14:08
  Dylan: Yes, he was so funny, like his charisma is just oh yeah, it's just up there.
• 14:17
  Dylan: Yeah, and just the being able to be like so charming about the way he says stuff and just so innocent, you know, like when he asks for the other guy's gun, like, oh, this is the gun you're going to, you know, kill Billy the kid with.
• 14:35
  Dylan: Wow, can I hold it?
• 14:37
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, son, but uh so alpha male, right?
• 14:44
  Joe: He's just playing it up for the lady there, yeah.
• 14:49
  Joe: Yeah, totally.
• 14:51
  Joe: Um, and do you remember what movies he was in that we've covered?
• 14:56
  Dylan: We talked about this like right after we watched it, yeah.
• 15:00
  Dylan: And I was like, we should have been recording that.
• 15:02
  Dylan: Exactly.
• 15:03
  Dylan: Because he was in um It'll come to me.
• 15:11
  Dylan: So we watched Breakfast Club and there was something else that we watched.
• 15:20
  Dylan: The outsiders that had him in it.
• 15:22
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:24
  Dylan: And then was there something else, or was was were we only talking about that?
• 15:29
  Joe: We might have been talking about something else.
• 15:31
  Joe: Okay.
• 15:31
  Joe: Um yeah, and I I think I mentioned in those episodes that once we get to this movie, like you'll see like Emilio's brilliance.
• 15:41
  Joe: Because it's just that like the way he acts in the outsiders is is almost close to how Billy the Kid is.
• 15:51
  Joe: And it's just it's just that charisma that you know.
• 15:55
  Dylan: Right.
• 15:58
  Dylan: Yeah, because we talked about how you know he was sort of sat there in the outsiders and just started eating the cake and watching what was it, Sesame Street or uh it was uh Mickey Mouse?
• 16:08
  Joe: Yeah, it was Mickey Mouse, as yeah, because he wore the Mickey Mouse shirt and he was a Mickey fan.
• 16:13
  Joe: There you go.
• 16:15
  Joe: Yeah, and he do he does those things where he you know he he does things in character and and he tries to you know challenge himself with his acting and everything.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Joe: Um yeah, crazy thing was that uh Sean Penn was originally supposed to play Billy the Kid, and uh, but he was in jail.
• 16:37
  Joe: Oops.
• 16:38
  Joe: And he he told the the uh director, he's like, you know, this part is great, but it's humorous and funny, and my life is not humorous and funny right now.
• 16:49
  Joe: Oh wow.
• 16:51
  Joe: Yes, so then Emilio was cast and he wanted to be likable but able to blow people away at the same time, which totally worked.
• 17:04
  Joe: Yeah.
• 17:07
  Joe: So then uh next is Doc Skerlock, which is played by Keefer Sutherland.
• 17:14
  Joe: And do you remember Bob Quiz?
• 17:19
  Dylan: Um because was he the goon?
• 17:27
  Dylan: The goon?
• 17:30
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Dylan: Was that one of the other ones?
• 17:33
  Dylan: That was the go one of the the goons in Back to the Future.
• 17:36
  Dylan: Yeah, that was one of the other ones.
• 17:38
  Dylan: Okay.
• 17:40
  Joe: Um Stand By Me?
• 17:44
  Dylan: Yeah, okay.
• 17:45
  Joe: Yeah, he was the gang leader in Stand By Me.
• 17:50
  Dylan: We need to write these down or something.
• 17:52
  Dylan: Yeah, I don't.
• 17:55
  Joe: Um the the director uh wanted Kiefer Sutherland originally for Billy and Emilio for Doc.
• 18:04
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, which would have brought a different a very different feel to it.
• 18:09
  Joe: Because I feel like if you look at Kiefer Sutherland in previous movies, like uh we haven't watched, we haven't done Lost Boys, but that movie and even in Stand By Me Man, he could be more of a like, you know, kind of maniacal, evil, like you know, really dark Billy, the kid.
• 18:31
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:32
  Joe: But he also like you know, swing to the other side, and like he's in this role, he's like sensitive and thoughtful.
• 18:41
  Dylan: Yeah, he's definitely the the uh the romantic type.
• 18:46
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah, with that whole you know plot line in there, yeah.
• 18:51
  Joe: And Emilio lobbied for the part and he said he would audition or do whatever he needed to do.
• 18:57
  Joe: So he was like, I'll you know, put me in the auditions, put me in the regular cat, you know, like cattle call or whatever, and I'll I'll do whatever it takes.
• 19:06
  Joe: And yeah, they you know, they had him do some stuff and jump through whatever hoops you need, yeah.
• 19:12
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:12
  Joe: So he had just shot Lost Boys, so that was that was just out as they were filming.
• 19:18
  Joe: Yeah, so he was on top, like that movie blew up when when it came out.
• 19:23
  Joe: Nice.
• 19:23
  Joe: So um they said that his character was sort of like Michael Corleone, where he initially didn't want to be involved with all the stuff, yeah, but then embraced it as as he went on, you know.
• 19:35
  Joe: And you can see that kind of where at first when they're all together, they're trying to be they're trying to be reformed, they're trying to, you know, right like with John what John Tunstall is teaching them and everything, and so he's the more educated and more and and trying to be that person, but then as the the gun starts slinging, he starts going at it too, and just that like that shot of him like sitting alone, reading a book and then like checking his gun out, like it's like okay, dude.
• 20:05
  Joe: Right.
• 20:07
  Dylan: Yeah, I really liked his character, you know, being the counterbalance to Billy, yeah, because Billy was you know definitely reckless about a bunch of things, yeah.
• 20:18
  Dylan: And you know, doc definitely tried to bring the level-headedness to it, yeah, and was not successful, but they're sitting in that hot spring and he's like, I'm really starting to not like this guy.
• 20:33
  Joe: Oh, great lines.
• 20:35
  Joe: Um, so then Jose Chavez e Chavez, played by Lou Diamond Phillips.
• 20:43
  Dylan: What else have we watched that he's been in?
• 20:49
  Dylan: The humming.
• 20:50
  Dylan: The humming, yes, yes.
• 20:54
  Dylan: La Bamba.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, Ricky Allen and his flying guitar, return.
• 21:02
  Joe: Yeah, he got the script just after La Bamba came out.
• 21:05
  Joe: So really boom, there you go.
• 21:08
  Joe: Um, and then his second movie, Stand and Deliver, was kind of wrapped up and they were still working on it.
• 21:14
  Joe: So this is like you know, his third movie in, but like it was like things were coming at him.
• 21:21
  Dylan: Um I wish that he had more screen time in this though.
• 21:25
  Joe: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 21:26
  Joe: I think there there were some scenes that were cut, but I I you know if there was a if there's a director's cut out there with deleted scenes, I'd love to see it.
• 21:35
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:37
  Joe: Um so he ran into Kiefer Sutherland at the Beverly Center, and they talked about working together at some point, and then Kiefer would get cast a week later.
• 21:51
  Joe: Oh.
• 21:53
  Joe: So, like Kiefer, Charlie Sheen, and uh Emilio Estevez, and Lou Diamond Phillips were all established.
• 22:00
  Joe: Leading men by then.
• 22:01
  Joe: So that really pushed the movie, you know, like to a different level than I think they were even expecting.
• 22:10
  Joe: Yeah.
• 22:11
  Joe: Um when he initially got the script, he worked really hard to prepare that main speech about, you know, when Billy says, Oh, you don't even care or whatever, and then he talks about the reservation and how all that stuff.
• 22:27
  Joe: So he really put that together.
• 22:30
  Joe: And so he went into the meeting with everybody and he said they were very nice and cordial.
• 22:35
  Joe: And he was like, you know, this is my first, you know, like this, this is one of my first screen tests or whatever.
• 22:43
  Joe: Because like even La Bamba, he did a video, you know, initially.
• 22:47
  Joe: And so um, so he was like, Well, I didn't I didn't think they were this nice to you know actors who were trying out or whatever, and so there was a lull in the conversation, and he finally said, Well, I prepared the scene for you guys, and I'd like to try this other one if you guys are okay with it.
• 23:04
  Joe: And the director smiled and looked at everyone else and said, Lou, the part is yours if you want it.
• 23:13
  Joe: So he was like, Oh, I didn't know that.
• 23:17
  Joe: So you didn't have to audition or anything, he was that was it.
• 23:21
  Joe: That's so funny.
• 23:22
  Dylan: Hey, he did the right thing though, right?
• 23:25
  Dylan: You know, he was ready, he was prepared.
• 23:27
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:28
  Joe: Yeah, he was awesome.
• 23:31
  Joe: Uh so then uh next is Charlie Sheen, Dick Brewer.
• 23:36
  Joe: And there was only one movie that we've covered so far that he's been in.
• 23:42
  Dylan: We need to be in your movie room.
• 23:44
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:47
  Dylan: What would that be?
• 23:49
  Joe: It was um Ferris Bueller's day off, and he was the thug that meets with the sister and gives him advice, gives her advice.
• 23:59
  Joe: It's like, there's one man you need to talk to.
• 24:01
  Joe: If you say Ferris Bueller, I'll kill you.
• 24:05
  Joe: Oh, you know him.
• 24:09
  Joe: Yeah, he uh originally uh Patrick Swayze was gonna play him, which he was in Outsiders.
• 24:16
  Joe: Yeah.
• 24:17
  Joe: Um, and I could see that I could see Patrick Swayze, you know, wanting to do that.
• 24:21
  Joe: But I guess Lou Diamond Phillips trying to convince him, and and he was just like, I've done these ensemble casts, you know, I've been the leader, I've you know done all this stuff, and I just don't want to do it.
• 24:32
  Joe: Yeah, so he passed on it.
• 24:35
  Joe: And Charlie was suggested after Patrick Swayze passed on it, and Charlie actually called the director and asked if he can be in it because he just wanted it.
• 24:45
  Joe: He's like, All my friends are in this movie, can I be in it?
• 24:48
  Joe: Yeah, I want to be involved too.
• 24:52
  Dylan: Yeah, I want to play.
• 24:57
  Joe: Yeah, but he was awesome.
• 24:58
  Joe: I felt like he really he was a great leader.
• 25:01
  Joe: Um I was always pretty sad when when he got killed, you know.
• 25:06
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, buckshot Roberts.
• 25:08
  Joe: Yeah.
• 25:11
  Dylan: I liked the derision, if that's the word for it, between him, uh, you know, between Dick and Billy.
• 25:23
  Dylan: How like Dick was just, you know, kind of I'm the oldest, I'm in charge.
• 25:30
  Dylan: Yeah, you know, right, versus Billy was like, Oh, I've got an idea, let's go do this.
• 25:35
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:36
  Joe: And yeah, and for the most part, he could convince people, but there was also like this manipulative factor about him.
• 25:45
  Joe: Yeah, you know, like I really caught that when they were talking about you know which way they were gonna go, and then they just they all decide to go to Mexico without him, and he's like, Oh, Mexico, well, well, that's that's the test of all tests, you know.
• 25:59
  Joe: Like he didn't want to admit that he was like outvoted, but at the same time, he was like, Oh, yeah, that was my idea too.
• 26:05
  Joe: Right, right.
• 26:08
  Joe: How can I play this to yeah, yeah, but also too, like the how you know Billy saw through the the guy who was from the other gang, and yeah, you know, and he was like, Yeah, and and Dick Brewer didn't see it.
• 26:26
  Joe: He's like, Hey, he's one of us, he's a regulator.
• 26:29
  Dylan: Like, so yeah, yeah, and for that, like totally like right over my head, yeah, with you know, because I just didn't quite follow where Billy was kind of coming from uh enough for him to just blow him away, you know.
• 26:50
  Joe: Yeah, I mean everybody was like like Doc got hit by it, you know, and it's like oh yeah, the splatter.
• 26:57
  Joe: Yeah, and I I think even that that moment was when Doc realized like, oh, I'm in this, you know, I'm in this deep.
• 27:05
  Dylan: This guy's mentally unstable, yeah.
• 27:07
  Dylan: Exactly.
• 27:08
  Joe: Yeah, totally.
• 27:12
  Joe: Um, so then uh Steve Stevens, Dirty Steve, Dirty Steve, was played by Dermot Munt Mulroney.
• 27:22
  Joe: Um, and one thing about him is that he he decided to actually do chew, so it took him a long time to get off of it after yeah, and he did a lot of a lot, a lot of things that's what I kept pointing out to you.
• 27:38
  Joe: I'm like, oh my gosh, and his logic was like normally they have you chew um uh Tootsie Rolls because it's brown and you know you're chewing it all the time, but he's like, that ruins your teeth.
• 27:52
  Joe: Yeah, so little did they know, yeah.
• 27:55
  Joe: So he he really had to like you know wean himself off of everything because it was just yeah, he had like a nicotine addiction for a while.
• 28:04
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:06
  Joe: Every like however long it took to shoot that movie, and then you know, every scene just over and over.
• 28:13
  Joe: Yeah, that would make me sick, like with anything, you know.
• 28:18
  Dylan: Yeah, in so many of those scenes, he was like kept packing in more.
• 28:23
  Dylan: I'm like, man, my cheek would hurt having that much stuff in it and trying to like talk.
• 28:28
  Joe: Yeah, and talk and do dialogue, and you know it's all part of his character.
• 28:36
  Joe: So then uh one of my favorites is Charlie Baudry.
• 28:39
  Joe: Okay, and he's played by so I've butchered his name and I'm gonna try to correct it.
• 28:44
  Joe: Casey Shimoshko.
• 28:46
  Joe: That's how you say it.
• 28:47
  Joe: Casey Shamoshko.
• 28:49
  Joe: And uh he actually said he when the trailer first came out, he made sure like he called the people who are making the trailer and made sure like that they didn't butcher his name because it's oh yeah, yeah, because like me.
• 29:04
  Joe: Um so do you remember what movies you were you said?
• 29:08
  Dylan: One he was one of the goons from Back to the Future.
• 29:13
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 29:14
  Dylan: That's the one.
• 29:14
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:16
  Dylan: Had to pull out the playing cards to see his face.
• 29:19
  Joe: Bonus for if you could name the the next one that we covered that he was in.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about this.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:27
  Dylan: Um, for the bonus point.
• 29:32
  Dylan: It was drum roll.
• 29:35
  Dylan: It was another like goon character.
• 29:42
  Dylan: Is it a movie that I've named?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:45
  Dylan: It is.
• 29:46
  Dylan: Okay, that doesn't narrow it down.
• 29:50
  Dylan: Um, it was Stand By Me.
• 29:52
  Dylan: Yes.
• 29:53
  Dylan: Yeah, it is dinner tonight?
• 29:57
  Joe: You do, you do.
• 29:59
  Joe: Um, I should say dessert.
• 30:00
  Joe: Yeah.
• 30:02
  Joe: Hey, let's get both.
• 30:04
  Joe: Right.
• 30:04
  Joe: But why stop there?
• 30:06
  Joe: But wait, there's more.
• 30:08
  Joe: Um, yeah, he was he was a the the uh goon to Kiefer Sutherland's bully and standby meaning.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, yeah.
• 30:21
  Joe: Which I'm curious to know if if he came through Kiefer or it was just, you know.
• 30:28
  Dylan: Yeah, that's what that's what I just thought.
• 30:31
  Dylan: I was like, if if it kind of came as like a oh well, why don't we add this one?
• 30:35
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:36
  Dylan: Already because you know, act it together.
• 30:39
  Joe: By 88, he had already done Back to Future One and Stand By Me.
• 30:43
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:46
  Joe: There's another movie cult classic that he's in called Three O'Clock High.
• 30:50
  Joe: Oh.
• 30:50
  Joe: Oh, it's so great.
• 30:52
  Joe: He was the lead in that, and that's what I mostly know him, knew him for from.
• 30:56
  Joe: Oh, okay.
• 30:57
  Joe: But uh yeah, we gotta cover that sometime.
• 31:01
  Dylan: So you also have John Tunstall played by Terrence Stamp.
• 31:09
  Dylan: I was so upset when he got killed in this.
• 31:14
  Dylan: Right?
• 31:15
  Dylan: And the way he got killed.
• 31:17
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 31:17
  Dylan: It's like, oh I would have gone on the warpath too.
• 31:21
  Joe: Yeah, again, this is why Billy did it.
• 31:24
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:26
  Joe: Because he was this peaceful mentor guy.
• 31:30
  Joe: Yeah.
• 31:31
  Joe: Yeah.
• 31:31
  Joe: And you know, the interesting thing was that in reality, he was 20-something as well.
• 31:37
  Joe: He just had a lot of money, and he was more of a businessman than anything, but he was hiring these guys to to be, you know, to do essentially the same thing, right?
• 31:48
  Joe: But to be the hired hands, yeah, but uh, and you know, protectors and all that.
• 31:53
  Joe: And uh, but he was a lot younger, which is crazy.
• 31:57
  Joe: Like, I don't know how he came into so much money.
• 31:59
  Dylan: Interesting.
• 32:00
  Dylan: Yeah, because in the movie they portrayed him as a old fart.
• 32:05
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah.
• 32:07
  Joe: At least an older fart.
• 32:09
  Joe: Yeah.
• 32:10
  Joe: Yeah, he might have been 47.
• 32:15
  Joe: Uh, and then uh LG Murphy was played by Jack Pallance.
• 32:20
  Joe: So the Murphy Murphy gang.
• 32:23
  Joe: It was interesting to see for me to see him in this movie because I knew him from a show called uh Ripley's Believe It or Not, and that's all I knew him from.
• 32:33
  Joe: Really?
• 32:33
  Joe: I don't believe that.
• 32:35
  Joe: Believe it or not.
• 32:36
  Joe: Um, and he was the host, and you know, they would show all these random, crazy things on the show, and he scared me a little.
• 32:44
  Joe: So it was like it was perfect for he was perfect for that part for it.
• 32:51
  Joe: Um yeah, and then he would go on to be in uh the Tim Burton Batman movie.
• 32:57
  Joe: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 32:58
  Joe: And I was like, oh, this guy's getting out.
• 33:05
  Dylan: So if you had to ride with one of the regulators, uh which one are you picking?
• 33:11
  Joe: If I was gonna ride with one regulator, it might be Jose Chavez y Chavez.
• 33:19
  Joe: Um because he's pretty hardcore.
• 33:23
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 33:25
  Dylan: As long as it was played by Lou Diamond Phillips, yeah, that's who I would pick.
• 33:32
  Joe: So if you would if you could say that you identify with the character the most, who would you say it is?
• 33:38
  Joe: Ooh.
• 33:40
  Dylan: I don't even know.
• 33:42
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 33:43
  Dylan: I mean do you have one that sticks out?
• 33:48
  Joe: For you?
• 33:49
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 33:50
  Joe: Hmm.
• 33:52
  Joe: You have some Billy in you.
• 33:55
  Joe: But you also have some doc.
• 33:58
  Joe: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Dylan: It's kind of uh yeah, yeah, that's so funny that you say that because those are the two that I immediately like popped into my head.
• 34:06
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 34:07
  Dylan: But I feel like they're also kind of more of the two main characters, and so I was like, well, maybe that's just you know, popped into my head because that's you know, the main characters and you know who you kind of follow around the most.
• 34:20
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 34:23
  Joe: Uh I'd have to say, like, you know, Jose Chavez y Chavez or uh um Charlie Baudry.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:36
  Joe: He has his own sensitivity in a different way, and you know, he's a boxer, right?
• 34:41
  Joe: You know, like it's you and I.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, that's pretty good.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:53
  Dylan: All right, Joe, let's talk about the music.
• 34:56
  Joe: So yeah, the um biggest thing, Anthony Marinelli was the composer, and he was starting to do scores with synthesizers.
• 35:08
  Joe: Um, he was the composer on Stand by Me.
• 35:12
  Joe: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Joe: And he helped uh on Top Gun.
• 35:17
  Dylan: And there are synthesizers in Top Gun.
• 35:20
  Joe: Yeah, I know, I know multiple synthesizers.
• 35:28
  unknown: Right.
• 35:29
  Joe: It's an orchestra of synthesizers.
• 35:32
  Dylan: The only instrument is a synthesizer.
• 35:34
  Joe: Yeah, there's like you know, one guy and 50 people with keyboards in front of a main conductor.
• 35:43
  Joe: It's before Pear Tools.
• 35:44
  Joe: You just try to do it all in one shot.
• 35:48
  Joe: Um, James Horner had actually uh already scored Young Guns, but it didn't fit with what they were going for.
• 35:56
  Joe: Oh yeah.
• 35:56
  Joe: And in the uh like he felt the director felt that it killed the humor in it.
• 36:02
  Dylan: Did he try to do it like a more traditional Western?
• 36:05
  Joe: Yeah, more traditional, more serious.
• 36:08
  Joe: Interesting.
• 36:08
  Joe: There was a lot of like um not as serious as the first song of Blazing Saddles, but no, nothing's as serious as that.
• 36:18
  Joe: Uh Camp Down Ladies, sing this song.
• 36:23
  Joe: Uh so uh yeah, it killed the humor, and it was more like Irish stuff and things like that.
• 36:31
  Joe: Interesting, yeah.
• 36:34
  Joe: Yeah, and I I I don't know exactly why, but he flew to Ireland to record everything.
• 36:40
  Dylan: And well, we can write it off as a business expense, right?
• 36:43
  Dylan: Exactly.
• 36:46
  Joe: So they're like, thank you, but no.
• 36:48
  Joe: So they called uh Marinali, who was working with George Marauder on Top Gun at the time, and uh and so yeah, he started to score young guns and they wrote it in three days.
• 37:03
  Joe: Wow.
• 37:07
  Joe: And the funny thing is, I I played this for you after the movie was over, but my wife said that she immediately found that the main theme sounded like an up like an 80s version of Amazing Grace.
• 37:20
  Joe: Yeah.
• 37:22
  Joe: Yeah.
• 37:23
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 37:25
  Dylan: And how like just how different this score is to like a movie like Tombstone just it's like opposite ends of the spectrum.
• 37:39
  Dylan: Oh yeah, it totally, yeah.
• 37:42
  Dylan: I mean, they both hold up in their own right, but the the more synth of this one though, yeah, like definitely kind of made it feel less western.
• 37:55
  Dylan: Because I feel like a western just has that very it has that very feel to it.
• 38:01
  Joe: So orchestral or right, yeah.
• 38:05
  Dylan: So it was definitely you know, definitely a turn from the usual, but it was so good.
• 38:13
  Joe: It felt modern.
• 38:16
  Dylan: Um so let's talk about this version of the old west.
• 38:23
  Dylan: Because uh you know, as you described the movie to me, you were you know talking about it being one of your brat pack movies.
• 38:34
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 38:36
  Dylan: I'm surprised you don't have your collection sorted into brat packs, right?
• 38:41
  Dylan: Yeah, that would get confusing.
• 38:44
  Dylan: It's crazy to me just how like stacked with the actors this movie is, yeah, you know, of either you know, they are already famous or you know, about to be.
• 38:58
  Joe: Yeah, and I think like I really wanted to do this film at this point because we've covered so many of those actors, yeah.
• 39:07
  Joe: And we've seen them in other roles, and you know, like I said before, Emilio is such a standout in this, you know, and um you know Lou Diamond Phillips just gives it this like you know, this mission seriousness about it, you know.
• 39:27
  Dylan: Would you say that he was on a mission from God?
• 39:31
  Joe: I don't know.
• 39:32
  Dylan: They were definitely in a spirit world, yeah.
• 39:36
  Dylan: That was an interesting scene.
• 39:39
  Joe: Yeah.
• 39:41
  Dylan: When they took when they took the herb.
• 39:43
  Dylan: Yeah, yes, the POD.
• 39:47
  Dylan: We're in the spirit world.
• 39:49
  Dylan: Oh, and when Emilio Estevez was like riding the horse backwards.
• 39:53
  Dylan: Oh, yeah.
• 39:53
  Dylan: I just like it's just going along with it.
• 39:56
  Joe: Or isn't that scene where they're just like all doing their own thing?
• 39:59
  Joe: And like, is it I think it's dirty Steve who like pulls out a shotgun and just blows up.
• 40:05
  Joe: Yeah.
• 40:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 40:08
  Dylan: And how many of those shots you know were close by the others?
• 40:13
  Dylan: Yeah, you're like, oh, but put that down, put that down.
• 40:16
  Joe: Yeah.
• 40:16
  Joe: And then Charlie's like stretching out, and then he just hurls.
• 40:22
  Joe: It's like, oh, that was beautiful.
• 40:25
  Joe: Was it?
• 40:28
  Joe: Oh.
• 40:30
  Joe: And then, like, you know, Chavez is like totally doing his ritual thing, and like man, that was a sidetrack.
• 40:41
  Joe: Yeah, squirrel.
• 40:44
  Joe: So yeah, Bratt Pat Western.
• 40:46
  Joe: Uh yeah, so the um, you know, cast it, it's loaded with young actors from the time.
• 40:54
  Joe: Um at the time, a lot of people said the Western was dead.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:01
  Joe: And they went to multiple studios and were like, hey, we we got this script, it's amazing.
• 41:08
  Joe: Like, we want to cast it with young guys, and um, and they were people just like no, no, no.
• 41:15
  Joe: And they were just like, Westerns don't make any money, it's you know, box office poison.
• 41:20
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:22
  Joe: So they finally found uh Morgan Creek to distribute it, and uh, I think they did some stuff at Universal, but um, yeah, for the most part, it was yeah, just kind of all them trying to put it together.
• 41:38
  Joe: Um it was common at the time for these characters in particular in other movies to be cast at an older age.
• 41:49
  Joe: Uh so Billy the Kid could be 30 or 40, right, you know, in in other movies, and so he really wanted to depict them at their age and the way they they were.
• 42:01
  Joe: Um and uh he never envisioned it to be, you know, uh the brat pack.
• 42:09
  Joe: Um the director said he wanted it to be a biker gang on on horseback, and the writer was like, Yes, you know, like let's do that right there, yeah.
• 42:22
  Joe: And he never thought of that, um, and it was more of like a story of disenfranchised youth who went out for vengeance to you know uh to avenge the death of of uh Tunstall and uh so it kind of had this gang mentality.
• 42:42
  Joe: So I mean in uh like in another way I could I could see it being like an outsiders, you know, on horseback more than Brat Pack.
• 42:51
  Joe: Yeah, you know, and uh there's so many, yeah, there's so many Brat Pack characters, but I feel like it's closer to outsiders than it would be to Breakfast Club, right?
• 43:04
  Dylan: You know, for sure, yeah.
• 43:06
  Dylan: Because yeah, when you talk Brat Pack, that's exactly what I thought of was something like Breakfast Club.
• 43:12
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 43:13
  Dylan: And yeah, I was like a little less Breakfast Club.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:20
  Joe: They uh when it first came out, uh, one of the reviewers called it Young Buns.
• 43:27
  Joe: Young Buns because it was like a you know a a stud-studded cast, you know, of stars, and uh it was just like you know, all these hunky dudes on horses, and they're like, Oh, what is this movie gonna be?
• 43:42
  Joe: And and all this stuff.
• 43:44
  Joe: But I I really feel like it's it's a good one.
• 43:47
  Joe: Um stud studded, yeah.
• 43:49
  Joe: And part of the commodity of of it was that there was some John Hughes people and the that whole era was still going on, yeah.
• 43:58
  Joe: And so you know.
• 44:00
  Joe: They could capitalize it if they envisioned it as that.
• 44:05
  Joe: Um, you know, sit around talking about their upbringing and crying together.
• 44:13
  Dylan: I know that's a lot more your type of movie, but definitely would have changed this one.
• 44:17
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:19
  Joe: Everybody's like doc in there.
• 44:23
  Joe: Reading poetry to each other.
• 44:27
  Joe: Um yeah, they wanted to be a real ensemble, so like they were all in the same hotel, so they'd do dinner and all that together and you know, try to get everything kind of, you know, so that they knew each other and what they would do and and all that on screen.
• 44:49
  Joe: And as they were, you know, part of the brat pack, they actually did brat pack stuff and went out and party together as well.
• 44:57
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 45:01
  Dylan: So I was right then.
• 45:02
  Dylan: They did they did hang out.
• 45:04
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Dylan: Uh so what would you say would be some of your favorite scenes out of this movie?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have any.
• 45:16
  Dylan: No?
• 45:16
  Dylan: No.
• 45:17
  Dylan: Okay, well, I guess we might as well move right along.
• 45:22
  Joe: Spirit world.
• 45:23
  Joe: Yeah.
• 45:24
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:25
  Joe: That whole sequence.
• 45:26
  Joe: Riding backwards.
• 45:29
  Joe: Yeah, I don't think they could see us.
• 45:30
  Joe: We're in the spirit world, man.
• 45:33
  Joe: Um, yeah, that that's one that always sticks out, like quoting and everything.
• 45:40
  Joe: Yeah.
• 45:40
  Joe: And then uh even the first, like, you know, I would say murder when they're going to get the guys, and they they get deputized and they go and get, and he follows the guy into the bathroom and and uh just takes him out, and then you know, violence ensues.
• 45:59
  Dylan: Yeah, one of mine is like the final siege, you know, at the end or the final escape, however you want to look at it.
• 46:08
  Dylan: Oh, yeah.
• 46:09
  Dylan: And it's just all of the the you know, gunfire, and you know, with your surround sound system, it was just fantastic.
• 46:19
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 46:22
  Joe: Yeah, that was epic.
• 46:23
  Joe: I like how you pointed out like when uh Alex McSween comes out at the end and he's he's telling the boys, you know, ride on guys, or whatever, and they just like they just use that machine gun against them, and yeah, and you're like, that's a bit excessive.
• 46:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:42
  Joe: Which did you recognize him?
• 46:45
  Joe: No.
• 46:46
  Joe: Terry O'Quinn was also in Tombstone.
• 46:49
  Joe: Oh, okay.
• 46:50
  Joe: He was like the other mayor or whatever, or the mayor, yeah.
• 46:54
  Joe: Into the Easton.
• 46:55
  Joe: Yes, yes.
• 46:57
  Joe: Yeah, no, did not at all.
• 47:00
  Joe: And then, you know, the same kind of situation and scene and everything is they um they were you know friends with celebrities, and celebrities would come and visit, and yeah, they decided to uh one the Emilio dressed up as one of the soldiers, and he's in there somewhere.
• 47:19
  Joe: I couldn't I couldn't find him, but he's dressed up as one of the soldiers.
• 47:24
  Joe: Yeah.
• 47:25
  Joe: So like you know, he's almost shooting back at himself at some point.
• 47:29
  Joe: Yeah, it's funny.
• 47:30
  Joe: And then uh the magic of movie movie.
• 47:33
  Joe: And then Tom Cruise showed up, uh, and so they decided to dress him up as one of the the guys as well, and uh and then um they end up shooting him and killing him on camera.
• 47:47
  Joe: Yeah.
• 47:49
  Dylan: Yeah, when we finish that the the movie, and you know, you rewinded it because you're like, do you recognize this person?
• 47:57
  Dylan: You know, you had it paused on the screen.
• 47:59
  Dylan: Yeah, like do you recognize him?
• 48:00
  Dylan: And I was like, No.
• 48:03
  Dylan: A soldier?
• 48:03
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:06
  Joe: I love the fact that he dies in Tom Cruise fashion, like just very over the top.
• 48:13
  Joe: He just goes, he just goes all in on everything, right?
• 48:17
  Joe: You know, like just the random flips that he does in the outsiders, you know, like like just commits.
• 48:24
  Joe: So like he's dying and he's just just wailing almost as much as when Charlie Sheen died, you know, when they're uh fighting against Bugshot Roberts, like you know, he has this little like head movement thing and just goes down.
• 48:43
  Joe: I love how like Charlie reacts to stuff where like the uh one of my favorite quotes that me and my wife will quote is that whole it's you and I thing, you know.
• 48:55
  Joe: Yeah.
• 48:57
  Joe: Cause he's so short, but he's so scrappy.
• 49:01
  Joe: Yeah.
• 49:04
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 49:05
  Dylan: Another scene that just really stuck out to me is the scene where like after the first shootout of you know of the regulators and um you know they pretty much tell the the more like the you know the story of or the legend of Billy the Kid.
• 49:30
  Dylan: Yeah, and then it has you know Dick's face, yeah, yeah, or his likeness.
• 49:35
  Dylan: Right, right.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, what?
• 49:39
  Dylan: Just like you know, starting this whole story of you know, the the myth of Billy the Kid and you know, it's not true, and you know everything like that.
• 49:51
  Dylan: He's like, they use my face, yeah.
• 49:54
  Joe: And like you mentioned earlier, when he goes up to that guy, he's like, Oh, is that the gun that's gonna kill Billy the kid?
• 50:00
  Joe: Right, you know, it taunts him, and and that dude's just like, Okay, kid, you know, give me the gun back.
• 50:06
  Joe: He's like, Oh, you know, it turns the gun upside down and kind of reminded me of Tombstone when uh yeah, when they're in the salon and they're just showing off.
• 50:15
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:17
  Joe: Um, yeah, so that that whole scene, I mean it just the Emilio stuff was is just hilarious.
• 50:24
  Joe: Like he just has a great time with the role, like yeah, he's just uh great.
• 50:30
  Joe: I hope he's like that in real life.
• 50:33
  Joe: Yeah not that I'm gonna meet him anytime soon, but well, you've got me.
• 50:39
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah, settle for me.
• 50:44
  Dylan: So, all right, Joe, let's get into some behind the scenes nuggets.
• 50:49
  Joe: Yeah.
• 50:50
  Joe: So one of the big ones, I was gonna put this in the music section, but I thought I'd separate it.
• 50:56
  Joe: Um so in the 90s, 94, there was a song called Regulate by Warren G.
• 51:04
  Joe: Okay.
• 51:05
  Joe: And uh Casey Shimashko, uh, his dialogue is at the beginning of the song.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 51:14
  Joe: Yeah, the whole re we regulate any stealing of his property, we're dang good at it, too.
• 51:19
  Joe: But you can't be any geek off the street, you gotta be handy with a steal if you know what I mean.
• 51:25
  Joe: Earn your keep, you know.
• 51:26
  Joe: It's right at the beginning.
• 51:28
  Joe: And as I was watching the commentaries, he had no idea.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 51:33
  Joe: I never heard that song.
• 51:35
  Joe: Because they were like, hey, yeah, you know, like uh, do you listen to that song a lot?
• 51:39
  Joe: And he's like, What song?
• 51:40
  Joe: He's like, Yeah, there was a song called Regulate, you know, about regulators, and wow, yeah, and he had no idea.
• 51:48
  Dylan: Sounds like he needs to get some royalties, yeah.
• 51:51
  Joe: Oh yeah.
• 51:54
  Joe: So um, yeah, most of the cast had to get horseback riding lessons.
• 52:02
  Joe: Like there was a couple of them who had, you know, grown up riding horses or had you know kind of dabbled in it, but uh they had a lot of them had to get lessons, and Charlie Sheen hated it the most.
• 52:17
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:18
  Joe: There's one scene where they take off together and start shooting, and like I would love to see this outtake, but the his horse just took off and he had to hold on for dear life because he didn't know how to control the horse or anything.
• 52:32
  Joe: Oh man, cussing up a storm on his way out, and the horse finally stopped like a mile or two out.
• 52:39
  Dylan: Really?
• 52:40
  Joe: Yeah.
• 52:42
  Dylan: All right, I'd be done for the day.
• 52:44
  Dylan: That'd be enough.
• 52:45
  Dylan: Yeah, right.
• 52:46
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 52:47
  Dylan: He said I mean, because there were a few times.
• 52:49
  Dylan: Sorry, not to cut you off.
• 52:51
  Dylan: There were definitely a few times, like in the movie that it looked like the horses were less than under control.
• 52:58
  Joe: Yes, oh yeah, yeah.
• 53:00
  Joe: You could definitely tell that.
• 53:03
  Joe: Um he said, I think I've done enough writing for for my entire life.
• 53:08
  Joe: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Joe: So some of them got so comfortable with uh writing, uh, they so the way they set it up is in order to get those big shots of the planes and all that stuff, they had to have base camp a mile or two out so that you wouldn't see any of the trucks or lighting or whatever.
• 53:30
  Joe: And so they would go from base camp to the set and they would race each other.
• 53:37
  Joe: They got that comfortable that they would race to the set, and uh the director finally had to stop them from doing that because of insurance, and oh yeah, they didn't want them to get heard and prolong the shooting.
• 53:49
  Joe: Right.
• 53:50
  Joe: Um, so and then cool thing is that they were so confident in the movie that the first day of shooting is the intro to the movie when they're showing each person, but that was also the trailer for the movie.
• 54:06
  Joe: It was a teaser trailer for the movie, and like while they were filming, so they went and filmed that first day, made a trailer of it, kept filming the movie, put that trailer out while the movie was still being filmed.
• 54:20
  Joe: Oh, yeah, yeah, and they said that was the first time that's that it ever happened, huh?
• 54:25
  Joe: But they were just like, we need to get people we on board with this, yeah, and and really see this movie.
• 54:32
  Joe: So uh it it's it's funny because it's back in the day when they would be like, you know, in a world, you know, but it's like the announcers just you know, he names a you know, Lou Diamond Phillips, Emilio Estevis, and yeah, it's like young guns, and the font looks like Top Gun.
• 54:54
  Joe: And a lot of people would say, like, this movie was Top Gun Western, you know.
• 55:00
  Dylan: I can definitely see that.
• 55:01
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:03
  Joe: It's like, you know, they show them get together and all become one, and then they have a mission to go to, right?
• 55:09
  Joe: And then the final battle, and Tom Cruise is in it.
• 55:12
  Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:14
  Joe: Is he credited in that at all?
• 55:16
  Joe: He's not fucked up.
• 55:18
  Joe: That's that's the big yeah, yeah.
• 55:22
  Joe: He it probably would have cost too much to put.
• 55:26
  Joe: Yeah.
• 55:28
  Joe: So yeah, I think the other thing, like, just like with Top Gun, MTV really influenced the making of this movie.
• 55:35
  Joe: And so like the shots and and different things were very kind of that oriented with with the music videos and and okay.
• 55:45
  Dylan: So I was gonna give you a hard time and just be like, what's MTV?
• 55:50
  Joe: Yeah.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, go listen to our podcast.
• 55:55
  Joe: Um, and then in the spirit world scene, Kiefer Sutherland, he's wearing or Doc is wearing a like a cover because Kiefer Sutherland had to last minute go and and be with his new newborn kid.
• 56:10
  Joe: Oh, yeah.
• 56:11
  Joe: And so they were like, how do we do this?
• 56:13
  Joe: So they put a cover over the the stunt writer and he goes through the spirit world scene.
• 56:19
  Joe: Oh funny.
• 56:22
  Joe: And then the weird kind of seems random.
• 56:27
  Joe: Um, and I don't even know why they included it, but when Charlie goes to the you know brothel and hugs that woman, the whole point of that, or the whole plot of that was that he he thought he was gonna die, and he tracked down his mom and wanted to see her for the last time, and that was his mom.
• 56:52
  Joe: Yeah.
• 56:54
  Joe: That would have brought so much more to it, you know.
• 56:56
  Joe: Yeah, like because it was just a random, like, just you know, like, what is this?
• 57:01
  Dylan: Right, because I thought it was like kind of the whole joke is like they all gave him money to be with this woman.
• 57:10
  Dylan: Yeah, you know, and then they're like, All right, we're gonna go through here for a little bit.
• 57:14
  Dylan: Right.
• 57:15
  Dylan: And then, you know, the whole joke was that all he did was just hug her.
• 57:21
  Joe: Yeah, you know, yeah, and they was gonna continue, like it was gonna show him kind of tracking her down and everything, and then going and seeing her, and the guys would joke, oh, you know, how did it go?
• 57:33
  Joe: Blah blah blah, and then he would tell them, like, that was my mom.
• 57:37
  Joe: So yeah, huh?
• 57:39
  Joe: I think that would have been kind of a different layer for the character, too, like just the impending doom, you know, like he always had that too, where it was like, um, you know, he mentioned several times, like, you know, they uh you know, when they hang you, you you know kind of right, you know, you soil yourself, you soil yourself, and you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 58:07
  Joe: So he was so afraid of death.
• 58:08
  Joe: Yeah.
• 58:09
  Dylan: And um, yeah, so it was uh that's so interesting.
• 58:15
  Dylan: I mean, they definitely did a good job, like building that into the character, yeah.
• 58:22
  Dylan: Because it was totally believable, you know, that he was you know, afraid to die.
• 58:27
  Joe: Yeah.
• 58:28
  Joe: And then Dirty Steve had uh had another kind of plot where he had mentioned how he thought he was gonna die or something, and he he mentions something about like uh soldiers and John Kinney and all that.
• 58:44
  Joe: Oh yeah, and then so when that happens and they those soldiers come and he's like afraid, it it's it's supposed to you know emphasize that where he had this like kind of premonition, like yeah, so that would have been an interesting plot point.
• 59:02
  Joe: Um uh Pat Garrett is played by uh Patrick Wayne, which is John Wayne's son.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Ha!
• 59:11
  Joe: Yeah.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there you go.
• 59:15
  Joe: Um so uh kind of anecdote.
• 59:21
  Joe: Uh they were doing press and stuff together, and they all got to go on this private plane.
• 59:28
  Joe: Yeah.
• 59:29
  Joe: And apparently, uh, I don't know if you've heard, but Keeper Sutherland likes to have a drink or two every once in a while.
• 59:35
  Joe: But uh apparently he was he was a little uh drunk at the time, and they were hitting turbulence, and they said uh, you know, they fell like a couple thousand feet because of you know, however.
• 59:50
  Joe: And uh and so as Lou Diamond Phillips was holding on for Dear Life and Kiefer Sutherland, it didn't affect him at all.
• 59:59
  Joe: He goes over to him and sings la la la la la bomba.
• 1:00:04
  Dylan: Time in place, time in place, time in place.
• 1:00:09
  Dylan: Oh man that's wild.
• 1:00:13
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:00:16
  Dylan: So we watched a few very different westerns now, uh, and so we had Tombstone, which was our kind of dramatic modern western, and we watched Blazing Saddles, which is our Western parody for sure.
• 1:00:35
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:36
  Dylan: And then now we kind of have the young guns, you know, the the youthful kind of 80s outlaw western.
• 1:00:45
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:00:46
  Dylan: So like, you know, between all these movies, like what would you say, you know, something that we kind of learned about what actually makes something feel like a Western?
• 1:01:00
  Joe: Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Joe: Um, I think the biggest elements is that you're in the old west, you know.
• 1:01:07
  Joe: Um, probably not having Cadillacs or any sort of automobiles.
• 1:01:14
  Joe: Um I think the music influences it.
• 1:01:18
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Dylan: That's that's what I was gonna say is I feel like the music just influences it in such a huge way.
• 1:01:29
  Dylan: And like we didn't, you know, get to watch what was it that we ended up not watching?
• 1:01:38
  Dylan: Good, bad, and the ugly.
• 1:01:40
  Dylan: Yes.
• 1:01:41
  Dylan: So we you know, we didn't get to watch good, bad, and the ugly this time around.
• 1:01:46
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:01:47
  Dylan: And like uh, you know, how that has you were saying kind of the Italian Western flair to the music of it.
• 1:01:58
  Joe: Yeah.
• 1:01:59
  Dylan: So it's just super interesting.
• 1:02:01
  Joe: And that was modern for its time too, but somehow it keeps it like genuineness of the genre.
• 1:02:11
  Joe: Yeah, you know, yeah.
• 1:02:14
  Joe: I think for me, the music in Young Guns didn't take me out of it.
• 1:02:19
  Joe: Maybe because I grew up watching it, yeah, and then that didn't really like affect me.
• 1:02:26
  Dylan: It definitely was something that I did pick up on.
• 1:02:31
  Dylan: And you know, maybe that was just with starting with Tombstone.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:35
  Dylan: You know, I picked up on it, but I wouldn't say that I like hated it.
• 1:02:40
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was just different.
• 1:02:44
  Dylan: So where would you say that young guns kind of fit into the Western history?
• 1:02:53
  Joe: Uh 1878.
• 1:02:55
  Joe: No, yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Joe: Um yeah, I think it takes its own spin and liberties on it.
• 1:03:03
  Joe: Yeah.
• 1:03:03
  Joe: Um I feel like the the intention to depict um the cowboys at the age that they were was was like a good, you know, good thing to do for what everything else is out there.
• 1:03:22
  Joe: Yeah.
• 1:03:22
  Joe: And to really go, okay, you know, and I don't know how they actually like they auditioned multiple actors for all these things, but if they they didn't they didn't put together like, oh, all these famous actors are hot right now, let's put them in one movie.
• 1:03:39
  Joe: Right, you know.
• 1:03:40
  Joe: But uh what it stands on really is the acting, you know.
• 1:03:46
  Joe: Um Lou Diamond Phillips kills it, like they all kill it, you know, and um they just they just take those parts and run and become the characters, and I don't see Richie Ballins or you know, I don't see like you know, Two Bit or what you know, like I don't see those other characters.
• 1:04:06
  Joe: I see and I don't even see like Emilio Estevis.
• 1:04:09
  Joe: I see what Billy the Kid could have been like, yeah, yeah, right.
• 1:04:15
  Joe: So yeah, I you know a lot of people will say that this is one of the best westerns out there, and uh there's quite a cult following to it, and you know, people watching it all over the place, and um their the success from this movie, you know, brought about Young Guns too.
• 1:04:38
  Joe: Yeah, and and that we'll have to rewatch that together because when I think about it, and it might be the amount of promotion that they did for it, but I feel like it's almost better than this one.
• 1:04:54
  Joe: Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:55
  Joe: But yeah, they both stand on their own like pretty well.
• 1:04:58
  Joe: Okay, at the beginning, I asked what you thought of um when you heard Billy the Kid after watching Young Guns.
• 1:05:05
  Joe: Has that changed?
• 1:05:07
  Dylan: It definitely kind of opens your eyes a lot more to the person behind the folklore.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 1:05:14
  Dylan: And so, like, in that sense, definitely.
• 1:05:19
  Dylan: Um that was definitely like a running thing throughout the movies, and something that I enjoyed from it was just the difference between, you know, the actions versus the storytelling.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:34
  Dylan: Because like, yeah, the newspapers, you know, spinning that story is definitely more of a storytelling than yeah, you know, factual.
• 1:05:43
  Dylan: Right.
• 1:05:43
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  Joe: Yeah, they definitely get out there with the facts and you know, but when you have the like the stories that they talk about in the newspapers, like that's the way they wrote back then.
• 1:05:56
  Joe: So when you look back at history and you're looking at what actually Happened, you're running across stuff like that.
• 1:06:02
  Joe: So you can't help but put that in there, you know.
• 1:06:07
  Joe: You know, it's like, how many people did Billy the Kid actually kill?
• 1:06:11
  Dylan: And you know, like we don't know because yeah, because it's like, you know, even from day one, it was you know already getting blown out of proportion.
• 1:06:24
  Joe: Yeah, and I like the way they, you know, like you always hear about Billy the Kid being like this perfect shot and everything.
• 1:06:31
  Joe: And you know, he's not the most perfect shooter in this movie, right?
• 1:06:38
  Joe: But that last shot when he he's at the horse and he points back, you know, now it's over, boom, you know, like that was pretty clean.
• 1:06:48
  Joe: Yeah.
• 1:06:50
  Dylan: So I think for a rating, I definitely enjoyed all of the you know, the cast in it, and you know, seeing them in other movies definitely was fun to see, you know, a new side of them because of how different of a movie it was.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  Dylan: I felt like the the music was a little bit of a takeaway, just with it being very top gun.
• 1:07:19
  Dylan: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:21
  Dylan: Um, I think it kind of did it a disservice.
• 1:07:25
  Dylan: I definitely could not picture this movie like with more of a like dramatic, you know, sound, yeah, or you know, music.
• 1:07:37
  Dylan: Yeah, but I definitely don't feel like the synthesizers did it any favors.
• 1:07:42
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:43
  Dylan: So I think I would probably give this movie a seven.
• 1:07:47
  Joe: Okay, okay.
• 1:07:48
  Dylan: I would rate it higher if it wasn't for that.
• 1:07:50
  Joe: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:52
  Joe: Wow, that's good.
• 1:07:54
  Joe: I was thinking like 7.5.
• 1:07:56
  Joe: Yeah, okay.
• 1:07:57
  Joe: Yeah, and yes, it's point five.
• 1:08:01
  Joe: But I I love this movie.
• 1:08:03
  Joe: I do.
• 1:08:04
  Joe: Watching it again was just like and dipping back into the or seeing the extras and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:08:09
  Joe: I was like, oh man, I this this has got to be on my regular watch list.
• 1:08:15
  Joe: So do you think uh you would watch Young Guns too?
• 1:08:22
  Dylan: I don't know.
• 1:08:23
  Dylan: We might uh we might have to have that for like a Patreon episode.
• 1:08:27
  Dylan: Yeah.
• 1:08:29
  Joe: Very special episode of Have You Seen the Movie Podcast.
• 1:08:33
  Joe: Right.
• 1:08:36
  Joe: Well, thanks for listening to Have You Seen the Movie Podcast.
• 1:08:40
  Dylan: Make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast app.
• 1:08:43
  Dylan: And if you're enjoying it, leave us a five-star rating.
• 1:08:45
  Dylan: It really helps the show grow.
• 1:08:47
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• 1:08:48
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• 1:08:53
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• 1:08:56
  Dylan: Everything you need is right there.
• 1:08:58
  Joe: We'll be back next week with another movie premiere.
• 1:09:14
  Dylan: This is a roll credit studio production.
• 1:09:17
  Dylan: Hey Joe.
• 1:09:18
  Dylan: Does this make us regulators now?
• 1:09:20
  Dylan: It does.
• 1:09:21
  Joe: All right.
• 1:09:22
  Joe: Regulators, let's ride.