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KILLER DAD CHRIS WATTS: "GENDER REVEAL PARTY MADE ME A KILLER” · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Does a gender revealed party push killer dad Chris Watts
0:05
Speaker 1: to murder his pregnant wife, Shenan and his two little girls,
0:09
Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste. Is that what set him off? That's
0:13
Speaker 1: no defense. I was going to have a gender reveal party,
0:15
Speaker 1: so my only choice was to annihilate my entire family.
0:19
Speaker 1: Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories. I
0:22
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us, A herd of.
0:34
Speaker 2: Mine to trust me.
0:36
Speaker 3: I did nothing to them, and to my beautiful wife,
0:38
Speaker 3: I did nothing to her. Wont the of blow I
0:45
Speaker 3: have for my family is actually going to.
0:48
Speaker 4: It's never going to die.
0:50
Speaker 5: My daddy is that here.
0:53
Speaker 3: I had nothing to do with the disappearance.
0:57
Speaker 5: My daddy, is that you? He well, he helped.
1:01
Speaker 6: Me grow up, He helped me up good.
1:09
Speaker 5: He reads me books times Greg Daddy.
1:21
Speaker 1: Daddy, and Bella and Celeste dead, their body shoved into
1:28
Speaker 1: these thin cylindrical oil containers out in the middle of
1:32
Speaker 1: Anadarko oil fields where Chris Watts kill her dad. Work tonight,
1:37
Speaker 1: we are learning more about what pushed kill her dad,
1:41
Speaker 1: Chris Watts over the edge a gender reveal party. This
1:46
Speaker 1: is we also learned that Shenan struggled to get pregnant.
1:51
Speaker 1: She had a rare disease that seemingly precluded her from
1:55
Speaker 1: ever getting pregnant again, and then after a long struggle,
2:00
Speaker 1: she conceives. Then, just after the gender reveal party invites
2:06
Speaker 1: go out, suddenly we find we uncover texts from Shenane
2:13
Speaker 1: Watts to her friend. Let's see the text where she
2:18
Speaker 1: describes how her husband, so called killer Dad Chris Watts,
2:22
Speaker 1: no longer wants the baby. I haven't slept most of
2:25
Speaker 1: the week. My eyes burn from crying so much. I
2:30
Speaker 1: cancel the gender reveal. Nicky's going to tell me today
2:35
Speaker 1: the gender of the baby. I need happy news right now.
2:40
Speaker 1: I said to him, how is this a few months
2:43
Speaker 1: we were so intimate and what I thought in love
2:47
Speaker 1: when I left. He said he had a lot of
2:49
Speaker 1: time to think. This baby and my belly deserves his
2:54
Speaker 1: full love either way. He came in the room and said,
3:00
Speaker 1: you think it would be a great thing to have
3:03
Speaker 1: another baby. We talked it out a lot beforehand, and
3:07
Speaker 1: we agreed to do this. You were so excited and happy,
3:11
Speaker 1: the friend says, I think he'll come to his senses
3:14
Speaker 1: and feel like an ass in a few months. Shanan
3:18
Speaker 1: I grabbed his hand during the ultrasound and he didn't
3:20
Speaker 1: grab back. The friend sends a crying emoji. Chanan I cringed.
3:27
Speaker 1: He rejected sex the night we arrived here. Only thing
3:32
Speaker 1: I can think of, even though I don't think he
3:34
Speaker 1: has it in him. As another girl, Chris told me
3:39
Speaker 1: last night he's scared to death about this third baby,
3:42
Speaker 1: and he's happy with just Bella and Celesti and doesn't
3:46
Speaker 1: want another baby. He only says just he loves the kids.
3:51
Speaker 1: Did he say he loves you?
3:53
Speaker 4: No?
3:54
Speaker 1: He asked me if the kids could go see his parents.
3:56
Speaker 1: I said no, I'm standing my ground. They haven't made
3:58
Speaker 1: contact in four weeks. No show to her birthday party.
4:03
Speaker 1: These texts are heart breaking. We have also managed to
4:09
Speaker 1: dig up her little party that she had planned and
4:13
Speaker 1: to Cheryl and Catle joining me, author of a brand
4:16
Speaker 1: new book, Christopher Watts A Failed Life. She interviewed Watts
4:23
Speaker 1: ad nauseum. I don't know how you did that. You
4:25
Speaker 1: must have held your nose still in contact with him.
4:29
Speaker 1: Her other book, The Murders of Christopher Watts and the
4:33
Speaker 1: Many Faces of Christopher Watts. You know, Cheryl, thank you
4:38
Speaker 1: so much for being with us tonight. I am looking
4:42
Speaker 1: over her receipts and it's breaking my heart. She had
4:47
Speaker 1: the whole party arranged. She went to Whole Foods. She
4:52
Speaker 1: had edible arrangements. You know what those are. That's when
4:55
Speaker 1: they put like fruit on a stick in little shapes.
5:00
Speaker 1: She had already bought the flower arrangements at Longmont Florest.
5:04
Speaker 1: I'm looking at her receipts right now. She went to
5:07
Speaker 1: Party City and bought all the decorations. She bought fruit
5:12
Speaker 1: and cheese and all sorts of food at Costco. It
5:17
Speaker 1: just I don't know, It just hurts to see how
5:23
Speaker 1: excited she was, Sherilyn, and in her excitement, her excitement
5:28
Speaker 1: about the gender revealed party, and she'd already bought everything
5:32
Speaker 1: for it. And then he says he doesn't want the baby.
5:36
Speaker 7: What happened, well, partially what happened is his girlfriend. He
5:43
Speaker 7: felt like you wanted another life. He was happy when
5:47
Speaker 7: Shenan left, and that's about the time he started talking
5:51
Speaker 7: with his girlfriend Niki, and by the time they had
5:57
Speaker 7: six weeks to spend together, he didn't want his family anymore.
6:02
Speaker 7: It was.
6:04
Speaker 1: Just let me understand this, you said, when Shananne left,
6:06
Speaker 1: where did Shanan gave sheryln Catle.
6:09
Speaker 7: She went to North Carolina to visit her family and
6:13
Speaker 7: his family, just to spend some summer time with them.
6:18
Speaker 7: Take the girls for a few weeks and spend time
6:21
Speaker 7: with your grandparents.
6:24
Speaker 1: It was very okay, let me understand this too. Doctor
6:27
Speaker 1: jeryln Utter joining US clinical psychologist specializing in psychological evaluations
6:34
Speaker 1: within the justice system. Author of Mainlining Philly, author of Aftershock,
6:39
Speaker 1: How past Events shake up your life Today, and producer
6:42
Speaker 1: of Utter Nonsense and documentary. Doctor jerln thanks for being
6:45
Speaker 1: with us. So she takes the children, Shenanne takes the
6:50
Speaker 1: children for a vacation. She's back in a few weeks,
6:54
Speaker 1: and in a few weeks time, he's completely forgotten about
6:58
Speaker 1: the family and wants to be with his lover and
7:01
Speaker 1: wants to get rid of the baby.
7:05
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I know it sounds outrageous. You would
7:08
Speaker 8: think most people would just opt for something called divorce
7:11
Speaker 8: or separation. But it's clear that there was what we
7:14
Speaker 8: call like a psychological detachment. So he had been over
7:19
Speaker 8: that six week period fantasizing about this new life with
7:22
Speaker 8: this new woman, and what happens a lot of times
7:26
Speaker 8: or in this particular case is he started to look
7:29
Speaker 8: at his family more or less as an obstacle and
7:32
Speaker 8: not as something that he wanted to be a part
7:35
Speaker 8: of anymore. He was completely entrenched in this fantasy life,
7:38
Speaker 8: and as time progressed, he became more resentful of the
7:42
Speaker 8: fact that he had a family, and he started to compartmentalize.
7:45
Speaker 8: So you start to separate the two worlds, and the
7:49
Speaker 8: one world was his previous family, and now this new
7:52
Speaker 8: world is this woman and this relationship, and that's what
7:55
Speaker 8: he wanted. So you know, as you read the text,
7:58
Speaker 8: messages her to hold her hand, him refusing to give
8:01
Speaker 8: her a hug, it's very clear that he started to
8:05
Speaker 8: literally emotionally and psychologically detached from the relationship because he
8:10
Speaker 8: was focused on being with this other woman compartmentalize.
8:15
Speaker 1: I don't know, doctor jerlend Utter. You make it sound
8:18
Speaker 1: so normal. He compartmentalized. It seems to me like he
8:22
Speaker 1: cheated on his wife and wanted her to get rid
8:25
Speaker 1: of the baby, baby Nico, their first baby boy.
8:29
Speaker 8: Absolutely he did. And but when I say this, I'm
8:32
Speaker 8: not saying it. I'm not saying it casually, and I
8:34
Speaker 8: don't want to come off as thinking that, you know,
8:36
Speaker 8: psychology explains this. I mean, Chris Watts is clearly a
8:40
Speaker 8: very disturbed individual. I don't want to take away from that.
8:43
Speaker 8: What he did is not the norm. But when you
8:46
Speaker 8: analyze his behavior, and I'm sure you know Cheryl knows
8:49
Speaker 8: this more than more than anyone, that's exactly what he
8:52
Speaker 8: did in his mind and his pslachy. He separated, He
8:55
Speaker 8: separated his one life that he had that he didn't
8:57
Speaker 8: want anymore, and went in this direct shit and completely
9:02
Speaker 8: emotionally detached from the family, which provided him the opportunity
9:07
Speaker 8: to engage in such a violent act. Again, Chris Watts,
9:10
Speaker 8: as far as I know and I've studied, was not
9:12
Speaker 8: an outwardly violent individual. This was something that was clearly
9:16
Speaker 8: premeditated because they were an obstacle. They were no longer
9:20
Speaker 8: a family. He wanted to get rid of them, and
9:23
Speaker 8: that's exactly what he started to do emotionally in order
9:27
Speaker 8: to be able to, you know, complete such a heinous act.
9:44
Speaker 8: I like that share really really, that's awesome.
9:53
Speaker 3: So pink means that's just as.
9:57
Speaker 9: The pink is going to be girls.
10:00
Speaker 10: That's awesome.
10:07
Speaker 1: That sure sounded half hearted and that's awesome. Okay, straight
10:11
Speaker 1: out to Dave Mac. Dave Mac joining me Crime Stories
10:15
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. We are now learning about claims that a
10:20
Speaker 1: gender reveal party pushed killer dad Chris Watts over the edge. Like,
10:26
Speaker 1: is that some type of a defense. I didn't want
10:28
Speaker 1: the gender reveal party. I couldn't take the stress, so
10:31
Speaker 1: my only alternative was to kill my wife and children.
10:35
Speaker 11: Yeah, and Nancy, at this point, everything that comes out
10:38
Speaker 11: of that man's mouth is just ridiculous. But yeah, that
10:41
Speaker 11: is what is being suggested now, is that? Think about it?
10:45
Speaker 6: Nancy?
10:45
Speaker 11: On August seventh, August Shenanni is so excited about the
10:49
Speaker 11: gender reveal party of finding out the gender of the
10:52
Speaker 11: baby that she spends eight hundred and sixty dollars on
10:56
Speaker 11: party supplies, the cake, cookies, all of this. That's a
10:59
Speaker 11: lot of money for a gender reveal party. But Nancy,
11:03
Speaker 11: that's August seventh. The very next day she cancels the party.
11:09
Speaker 11: They had fifty people that were already invited. She disinvited
11:13
Speaker 11: them on the very next day, not even twenty four
11:16
Speaker 11: hours after buying all of this stuff, she cancels the
11:19
Speaker 11: gender reveal party. So what took place on August the
11:23
Speaker 11: seventh into August the eighth. Well, apparently that's where Chris
11:28
Speaker 11: Watts decided I don't want another baby. I'm good with
11:32
Speaker 11: Celestin Bella. The shocking truth, Nancy, is that we know
11:36
Speaker 11: what took place after the fact, But all I'm picturing
11:39
Speaker 11: in my head every time we do this is Labella
11:43
Speaker 11: singing the hero song and what he does to his
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Speaker 11: wife and his girls in real time. August seventh and
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Speaker 11: eighth to the thirteenth.
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Speaker 5: My daddy is a here.
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Speaker 6: He helps me through shock, help me, oh God kill
12:05
Speaker 6: he reads me. But time less.
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Speaker 8: My daddy, Daddy.
12:19
Speaker 1: Love I mean Sheryl and Catle. The embarrassment that Sheanane
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Speaker 1: must have suffered when she has to call all our
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Speaker 1: friends and call off the gender reveal.
12:30
Speaker 7: I was sure she was embarrassed, but honestly, I think
12:32
Speaker 7: Sheanane was just totally blindsided that something had really changed
12:38
Speaker 7: in her husband. I mean, when she was away at
12:40
Speaker 7: her parents towards the end of that time, she would
12:43
Speaker 7: try to call Christopher and she couldn't get a hold
12:46
Speaker 7: of him. She felt something was wrong. By this time,
12:50
Speaker 7: she was four months pregnant and had gotten through a
12:54
Speaker 7: lot of morning sickness, was starting to feel better, was happy,
12:57
Speaker 7: to come home and spend time with him, and all
13:01
Speaker 7: that while he was literally planning in his head what
13:04
Speaker 7: he could do to get rid of them. And I
13:06
Speaker 7: wanted to say one thing, not to blame his girlfriend.
13:10
Speaker 7: This is not what I mean. But about a week
13:14
Speaker 7: before Sinan came home, he had his girlfriend to his
13:18
Speaker 7: house and they were talking about having a family someday,
13:24
Speaker 7: and she told him I want to have your first son.
13:28
Speaker 7: And I think that had a lot to do with
13:31
Speaker 7: in his head why he all of a sudden didn't
13:34
Speaker 7: want the son he had coming. If it had been
13:37
Speaker 7: another girl, he might have been different. He also had
13:39
Speaker 7: been told by his family that he didn't need it.
13:45
Speaker 7: On the one it was too much that he didn't
13:49
Speaker 7: really want.
13:50
Speaker 1: What do you mean he didn't need another one? It's
13:53
Speaker 1: too much. If he was thinking of having a baby
13:57
Speaker 1: with his mistress, well did that's a third baby, So
14:00
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. Hold on just a moment, you said,
14:05
Speaker 1: I don't want to blame the girlfriend. Let me understand something.
14:08
Speaker 1: Sherlyn Cadel. Didn't the other girlfriend know he was married
14:11
Speaker 1: with two children?
14:13
Speaker 7: She did, absolutely, but she was also.
14:16
Speaker 1: Then is the problem with blaming her?
14:20
Speaker 7: Well, according to her, which I think that she's pretty
14:24
Speaker 7: naive to not realize that that's probably what every man
14:28
Speaker 7: tells a woman when he's having an affair with her.
14:30
Speaker 7: But according to Christopher, he had told her that they
14:35
Speaker 7: were getting separated and probably divorced. So he also told
14:41
Speaker 7: his girlfriend that he was living in the basement, that
14:43
Speaker 7: when he was home, he would take care of the children,
14:46
Speaker 7: then he would go down the stairs to sleep, And
14:50
Speaker 7: that did happen a couple of times, I think, but
14:52
Speaker 7: that's not how things really were. So it's definitely to
14:57
Speaker 7: me it's a mix of her pulling him to she
15:00
Speaker 7: was she was pulling him to her, And I don't
15:03
Speaker 7: believe she meant for him to kill his family, But
15:05
Speaker 7: I think she said get rid of Shnan, get rid
15:07
Speaker 7: of the family, and come with me. I don't think
15:11
Speaker 7: she meant kill them. I think she probably meant leave them.
15:15
Speaker 7: But he's very simple minded when it comes to things
15:18
Speaker 7: like this. He's been used to doing whatever the women
15:22
Speaker 7: in his life tell him to do. It's like he
15:25
Speaker 7: couldn't think of his own And I know that sounds
15:28
Speaker 7: like excuse.
15:29
Speaker 1: That's trying to sound like it's the women in his
15:31
Speaker 1: life's fault, and it's not it's his fault. You spoke.
15:35
Speaker 1: You've spoken so many hours with so called killer dad,
15:39
Speaker 1: Chris Watts, and it's my understanding. He explained to you
15:43
Speaker 1: about a big argument they had right before she went
15:47
Speaker 1: on the trip.
15:50
Speaker 7: Yes, they had. What was right when she came home
15:54
Speaker 7: from the trip, I think I have to look back
15:56
Speaker 7: at my letters. But she had suspects that something was
16:00
Speaker 7: going on, and he walked up to the bedroom. They
16:04
Speaker 7: got into an argument, and she said, I hope whoever
16:06
Speaker 7: this is, they're worth it. You've got beautiful children. We
16:11
Speaker 7: have another one on the way, and now this you
16:14
Speaker 7: know what's going on. I hope that they're worth it.
16:17
Speaker 7: And she took a pillow and shoved it. Dad emans
16:20
Speaker 7: and get out of the room. And so he went
16:22
Speaker 7: downstairs and got on the phone with his girlfriend. So
16:28
Speaker 7: it just he had no intentions of staying with Shanan.
16:33
Speaker 7: Why he didn't choose the separation or divorce, I don't know.
16:38
Speaker 7: I don't know why it is. He blames it on
16:40
Speaker 7: a lot of different things.
16:41
Speaker 1: When you talk, I want to get back to the
16:44
Speaker 1: new theories. If somehow again is all Sheannan Bella and
16:49
Speaker 1: Celeste fault that he murdered them to Dave Mack. The
16:55
Speaker 1: preparations for the gender reveal party. Now emerging that that
17:02
Speaker 1: pushed him over the edge. That is not a motive
17:05
Speaker 1: for murder. Tell me about the receipts that you have reviewed.
17:10
Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, the receipts for this gender reveal party show
17:14
Speaker 11: that Shanean Watts was really planning a big day.
17:18
Speaker 9: Again.
17:18
Speaker 11: Remember we got fifty people coming. A custom cake has
17:22
Speaker 11: been ordered, cookie arrangements made in specific arrangements of cookies
17:27
Speaker 11: so that it'd be just that much more exciting. You've
17:30
Speaker 11: got the flowers. She ordered very specific flowers to be
17:33
Speaker 11: spaded throughout this party. Area, decorations, supplies, She purchases food
17:39
Speaker 11: for all of the guests. The party was planned for
17:42
Speaker 11: August nineteen at the Watts family home there in Frederick, Colorado.
17:48
Speaker 11: But Nancy, again, remember the dates here, August seventh. Shane
17:53
Speaker 11: Ann is spending eight hundred and sixty dollars on all
17:56
Speaker 11: of this stuff for this reveal party. She's man, this
18:00
Speaker 11: is their third child. She doesn't know that this baby
18:04
Speaker 11: is going to be a boy. They don't know that.
18:07
Speaker 11: That's what the gender reveal party is all about. It's
18:10
Speaker 11: on August the seventh, when after she's gone through all
18:13
Speaker 11: of this that Chris Watch says, I don't want another baby,
18:17
Speaker 11: and that's when she starts putting everything together, and within
18:20
Speaker 11: a twenty four hour period, he goes from I'm having
18:22
Speaker 11: a gender reveal party. Were no party, no nothing, This
18:26
Speaker 11: is over. That's a huge, huge turnaround.
18:29
Speaker 2: I'm calling because I'm concerned about a friend of mine.
18:33
Speaker 2: I dropped her off at her house at two in
18:35
Speaker 2: the morning last night because we were out of town
18:37
Speaker 2: together and if we were on the way back to
18:38
Speaker 2: the airport and India, and she's pregnant, and I haven't
18:44
Speaker 2: been able to get ahold of her this morning. And
18:46
Speaker 2: I've gotten to her house and her.
18:47
Speaker 1: Car is there.
18:48
Speaker 2: And stuff like that, but she won't answer the door,
18:51
Speaker 2: she won't answer the phone call, she won't answer text messages.
18:54
Speaker 2: And I'm just really really concerned. And said a doctor's
18:57
Speaker 2: appointments this morning and she didn't go to it, and
18:59
Speaker 2: I'm just I don't know what to do. I called
19:01
Speaker 2: him and talked to him, and he said that she
19:04
Speaker 2: went on a pre date with her other two daughters.
19:06
Speaker 2: But like if she went on a play date, they
19:08
Speaker 2: both in carts, why would you knock in her car.
19:16
Speaker 4: I'm sure she heard them and going out her her
19:33
Speaker 4: Did they leave after that for a long time?
19:39
Speaker 6: So she she started her beginins.
19:43
Speaker 4: Favorite.
19:45
Speaker 1: Okay, so Dave mac there he is blaming Shenan for
19:51
Speaker 1: the murders, the disappearances of Bella and Celeste. Did you
19:55
Speaker 1: hear that she hurt them? Then I freaked out on her?
19:58
Speaker 1: And then the detective says, okay, well then where are
20:02
Speaker 1: your girls? Did they leave? I mean they're was two
20:05
Speaker 1: and three years old? Did they leave after that? And
20:09
Speaker 1: then Watts just shrugs. He, even after murdering her, is
20:15
Speaker 1: blaming her first, it's the gender revealed party's fault. Now
20:20
Speaker 1: she's the one that hurt the children.
20:25
Speaker 11: It is the most ridiculous blame game. But Chris Watts
20:28
Speaker 11: has never taken any kind of responsibility for anything he's done. Nancy,
20:32
Speaker 11: it's always blame the girls, Blame Shannan. He even goes
20:37
Speaker 11: so far as later on blaming the girlfriend. So yeah,
20:40
Speaker 11: he's blaming this murder that took place. He's blaming by
20:45
Speaker 11: claiming that Shane claiming that the wife he murdered caring
20:49
Speaker 11: a fifteen week old baby in her belly, is that
20:52
Speaker 11: she was abusive towards the girls. And that's why he
20:56
Speaker 11: had to take her out. It was all her fault,
21:00
Speaker 11: the mind that he could even say that out loud.
21:03
Speaker 1: So let me just follow through Chris Watts's claims that
21:08
Speaker 1: Sheanan is really the guilty party again. So is he
21:13
Speaker 1: claiming that sNaN tried to hurt the girls so he
21:17
Speaker 1: attacked Shanan? Then how did two little girls, Bella and Celeste,
21:22
Speaker 1: ages two and three, end up stuffed down oil cylinders
21:30
Speaker 1: in the oil fields of Anna Darko where he Chris
21:35
Speaker 1: Watts worked.
21:39
Speaker 3: Are they in the tanks?
21:42
Speaker 4: Can somebody who doesn't know what they're doing to open those?
21:45
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a mystery of oil.
21:49
Speaker 4: And lurb.
21:56
Speaker 1: Tell me that she found down here?
21:59
Speaker 4: Where is that from? That was what Schnell was repped in.
22:04
Speaker 4: What about the crones?
22:05
Speaker 7: W are they repped in.
22:08
Speaker 4: Justient repportunitis?
22:11
Speaker 1: Now?
22:11
Speaker 4: Don't their blankets or anything? Where did their blankets, toys
22:16
Speaker 4: and truckfill? Probably a little bear lend or something like that.
22:22
Speaker 1: Straight out to a veteran and renowned chief medical examiner
22:28
Speaker 1: joining us tonight, doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns is
22:33
Speaker 1: the as I said, chief medical examiner in Terran County.
22:37
Speaker 1: He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
22:40
Speaker 1: Medicine at TCU. He is the star of a hit
22:43
Speaker 1: new podcast, Mayhem and the Morgue. Doctor Kendall crowns all
22:48
Speaker 1: of this because of a gender reveal party that pushed
22:52
Speaker 1: him over the edge to a triple murder of his wife,
22:56
Speaker 1: his two little children, and the unborn baby boy. Nico
23:01
Speaker 1: describe what happened to the little girls.
23:06
Speaker 9: So each little girl, the older one is Bella, the
23:11
Speaker 9: younger one is Celested. They appear to have been smothered. Bella,
23:16
Speaker 9: the younger one, I think was smothered second. She actually
23:20
Speaker 9: has more injuries to her inside of her mouth. She
23:23
Speaker 9: bites her tongue, she bites the sides of her cheek.
23:26
Speaker 9: I think it's because she saw her sister be smothered
23:30
Speaker 9: by her father first, and she knew what was coming,
23:32
Speaker 9: so she struggled more. Usually with smothering cases, when you
23:35
Speaker 9: have an adult and the child, they'll pinch the nose
23:38
Speaker 9: and cover the mouth, or just cover the mouth and
23:40
Speaker 9: nose all at once and then hold the pressure there
23:43
Speaker 9: and the child will suffocate from lack of oxygen. Within
23:46
Speaker 9: a couple of minutes, and then once they were dead,
23:49
Speaker 9: he then shoved them into the oil tanker. And each
23:52
Speaker 9: child has abrasions on their body from actually being shoved
23:56
Speaker 9: through this small opening and the oil taker and it
23:59
Speaker 9: kind of or rubbing the skin as he's pushing them down.
24:02
Speaker 9: So it probably wasn't easy for him to shove them
24:05
Speaker 9: into the oil tanker as well, and he caused damage
24:08
Speaker 9: to their bodies after he had killed them.
24:10
Speaker 1: What do you mean he caused damage to their bodies
24:13
Speaker 1: after he killed them.
24:15
Speaker 9: Well, when he's pushing them through that small hole, their
24:18
Speaker 9: bodies probably weren't fitting really well. And then as they
24:21
Speaker 9: were pushing through the middle of that opening, it caused
24:24
Speaker 9: scraping and abrasions of the skin. But it happened after death,
24:28
Speaker 9: so they get this kind of tan yellow appearance on them,
24:32
Speaker 9: and that's from the body being dead. Hearts no longer beating,
24:35
Speaker 9: and it's pushing up against something as it's being shoved
24:38
Speaker 9: through that hole.
24:40
Speaker 1: I find this photo, while accurate, to be a little misleading,
24:44
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendl Crowns. If you look at it, it looks
24:47
Speaker 1: much bigger than it is because it was not wide
24:52
Speaker 1: enough to put the girls in there, even vertically. And
24:57
Speaker 1: it tore the skin off of their arms as he
25:04
Speaker 1: shoved them down into it. I agree with you.
25:08
Speaker 9: Even in this picture, it looks like it's got an
25:10
Speaker 9: eight inch diameter, so that even the larger child, the
25:14
Speaker 9: older child, was probably harder to fit through. He probably
25:17
Speaker 9: had to manipulate the arms in some way and then
25:20
Speaker 9: push or even stick his foot on top of the
25:22
Speaker 9: child's head as he's pushing the child through that hole.
25:26
Speaker 9: It wasn't going to be an easy process to shove
25:29
Speaker 9: them in there.
25:30
Speaker 1: What happened to Shanan doctor Kendall Crowns.
25:34
Speaker 9: So the children were smothered, which is basically hands over
25:37
Speaker 9: the nose and mouth until they died. Instead, she was strangled.
25:40
Speaker 9: He there's bruising on her neck. There's bruising on the
25:43
Speaker 9: muscles of the neck as well, So he placed pressure
25:46
Speaker 9: on her neck, collapsing the jugular and jugular veins, crowded arteries,
25:51
Speaker 9: and then causing her not to get oxygen to her brain.
25:54
Speaker 9: But he manually strangled her with her hands until she died,
25:58
Speaker 9: wrapped her in a sheet, and then buried her in
26:00
Speaker 9: a shallow grave where she laid there for several days decomposing.
26:04
Speaker 1: We are showing you the shallow grave where Shannan Watts
26:08
Speaker 1: was buried, and the same oil feels near her two
26:11
Speaker 1: little girls. Doctor Kimmel Crown's what is coffin birth?
26:16
Speaker 9: So coffin birth is what happens when the body is decomposing,
26:20
Speaker 9: gases form, and these gases form in the abdominant abdominal
26:24
Speaker 9: region in the soft tissues, and they cause swelling of
26:28
Speaker 9: the skin well in the abdomen. The gases are forming
26:31
Speaker 9: and creating this pressure in the abdomen with the intestines
26:35
Speaker 9: and the stomach. It all starts pushing down on the
26:37
Speaker 9: uterus and that forces the baby in the uterus out
26:41
Speaker 9: through the vaginal canal and basically makes them give birth
26:45
Speaker 9: after death. And it's just based the pressures from the
26:48
Speaker 9: decomposition gases causing the fetus to be expelled out of
26:53
Speaker 9: the uterus.
26:55
Speaker 1: I just don't get it. I don't get how now,
27:00
Speaker 1: even in death, Chris Watts is somehow blaming Shenan Watts
27:06
Speaker 1: and a gender reveal party joining us now a veteran
27:12
Speaker 1: defense attorney who shot to fame in his coverage of
27:16
Speaker 1: the Alex Murdog double murder trial. It's Mark Pepper joining
27:21
Speaker 1: us out of South Carolina. He is the founder of
27:23
Speaker 1: the Pepper Law firm. Mark, I don't think this would
27:28
Speaker 1: ever work in a court of law. I frankly don't
27:31
Speaker 1: understand why Chris Watts did not get the death penalty
27:34
Speaker 1: because it's triple murder. Plus if you count the unborn baby,
27:40
Speaker 1: which in a lot of jurisdictions you do, that's four
27:42
Speaker 1: dead people. What were they just not valuable enough to
27:45
Speaker 1: seek the death penalty? But that said, the gender reveal
27:50
Speaker 1: party made me do it, Mark Pepper, I mean even you,
27:54
Speaker 1: even you might have a hard time selling that to
27:57
Speaker 1: a jury with a straight face.
28:00
Speaker 10: I tend to agree that would be a tough one
28:02
Speaker 10: when we're talking about motive in these types of instances.
28:05
Speaker 10: You know, the prosecution is looking for the why, and
28:09
Speaker 10: everything that we've read, you know, is pointing towards and
28:12
Speaker 10: really what he wrote in his own book, right is
28:14
Speaker 10: pointing towards this gender reveal party. Now, if true, well,
28:19
Speaker 10: that would be more akin to some type of manslaughter
28:22
Speaker 10: charge where in the heat of passion, you got upset
28:25
Speaker 10: that there was going to be this party you didn't
28:27
Speaker 10: you didn't want to host, didn't want to have, and
28:29
Speaker 10: so you kind of snapped well, they didn't go down
28:33
Speaker 10: that manslaughter route.
28:34
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, somebody correct me if I just misheard.
28:37
Speaker 1: Maybe my earpiece isn't working, because I'm pretty sure I
28:40
Speaker 1: heard Mark Pepper, who was a veteran defense lawyer, say, well,
28:46
Speaker 1: there's his defense, voluntary manslaughter. He didn't want to have
28:50
Speaker 1: the party. He didn't want to have a party.
28:56
Speaker 10: That shouldn't have been this defense.
28:57
Speaker 1: That is not a defense, Pepper. You've won a lot
29:02
Speaker 1: of cases, and I'm pretty sure than your jurisdiction in
29:05
Speaker 1: South Carolina. Snap is not a defense. I snapped. I
29:09
Speaker 1: snapped fifty times a day, but I don't kill anybody. Snap.
29:12
Speaker 1: That's the name of a show on Oxygen.
29:15
Speaker 7: I snapped.
29:16
Speaker 1: Snap is not a defense, Pepper.
29:20
Speaker 10: Well, but Nancy, snap is an element of manslaughter. In
29:24
Speaker 10: the heat of passion, you didn't want to go to
29:26
Speaker 10: this party, you snapped, and so you went out and
29:29
Speaker 10: committed these heinous crimes.
29:31
Speaker 1: Go sit in the effing car, go for a drive,
29:37
Speaker 1: go to Wild Wings and watch TV and have some
29:40
Speaker 1: wings whatever you want, But do you have to kill
29:44
Speaker 1: your wife, your two little girls, ages two and three,
29:47
Speaker 1: and the unborn baby boy. Now he's talking to his
29:51
Speaker 1: mistress about she wants to have his first boy. You
29:54
Speaker 1: know where she can stick that, and it's where the
29:56
Speaker 1: sun don't shine. I want to have your first baby boy,
29:59
Speaker 1: knowing he's still Mary. But she's not my problem. He's
30:02
Speaker 1: my problem, Mark Pepper. Now listen, you know you have
30:06
Speaker 1: to get renewed every year, right by the South Carolina bar. Now,
30:11
Speaker 1: what are they going to say when they hear you
30:13
Speaker 1: claim I didn't want to go to a party? Is
30:16
Speaker 1: the defense in triple murder? I didn't want to go
30:19
Speaker 1: to the party, so I had to kill anybody throwing it.
30:24
Speaker 10: That is what we we Well, that's manslaughter, Nancy. If
30:29
Speaker 10: I was recommending anything to my client, I would say,
30:31
Speaker 10: we're not pleading guilty to murder. That this is a
30:34
Speaker 10: quintessential manslaughter case where there could be a number of
30:39
Speaker 10: different instances where obviously this party caused some type of
30:43
Speaker 10: heat of passion to come over him and he absolutely snapped.
30:46
Speaker 10: That is the definition of manslaughter. If I was representing
30:49
Speaker 10: him in Colorado, that would have been our defense. We
30:51
Speaker 10: would have pled guilty to manslaughter all day long. But
30:54
Speaker 10: I never would have advised him to plead guilty to
30:56
Speaker 10: murder because what motive was there? What what motive could
31:00
Speaker 10: there possibly have been to do this to your own children.
31:02
Speaker 10: It's a it's a kin to a lot of the
31:04
Speaker 10: cases we see around here where it's not the job
31:06
Speaker 10: of the defense to explain away their actions. It the
31:09
Speaker 10: burdens on the state. And if you have a valid
31:12
Speaker 10: reason where you just lose it, that is the quintessential
31:16
Speaker 10: defense of manslaughter, and that should have been should have
31:20
Speaker 10: been the deal.
31:21
Speaker 1: What did you just say, a valid reason to quote
31:27
Speaker 1: lose it? Which is also not another thing? Mark Pepper,
31:32
Speaker 1: could you please stop saying the word snap because it's
31:35
Speaker 1: making my ears bleed. They're bleeding because you know, and
31:39
Speaker 1: I know I snapped is not a defense you just
31:44
Speaker 1: also said. And they always use this example in law school,
31:48
Speaker 1: and I wish they would quit, And now I'm perpetuating
31:50
Speaker 1: it by using it myself. Voluntary manslaughter comes with heat
31:54
Speaker 1: of passion anger that's uncontrollable, such as here's the example.
31:59
Speaker 1: A man comes home from American finds his wife with
32:01
Speaker 1: another man in bed. They always use that the wife's
32:03
Speaker 1: always the bad person. That said, so he shoots them
32:06
Speaker 1: both dead, and a jury is supposed to believe, well,
32:09
Speaker 1: she had it coming. He was so angry he couldn't
32:12
Speaker 1: control himself. You're equating your wife planning a gender reveal
32:18
Speaker 1: party and going to Costco and buying cheese trays and
32:21
Speaker 1: fruit snacks. That's that is the legitimate grounded reason that
32:29
Speaker 1: he quote lost it because his wife went to Costco. Seriously,
32:35
Speaker 1: are you really saying.
32:36
Speaker 10: That you're to side that you know, Nancy, the reason
32:40
Speaker 10: for the heat of passion, the reason for losing all control,
32:46
Speaker 10: it doesn't have to be a legitimate one. That is
32:48
Speaker 10: up for the jury to decide. My point is that
32:51
Speaker 10: be it you come home and the law school example,
32:53
Speaker 10: and your wife's cheating on you, and in the heat
32:55
Speaker 10: of passion you take an act that that's just the
33:00
Speaker 10: aim under the eyes of the law, as someone planning
33:02
Speaker 10: a party that you do not want to attend that
33:04
Speaker 10: you did not approve. If he if in his mind
33:07
Speaker 10: at that time that was the issue, then that's a
33:10
Speaker 10: legitimate defense for him to at least pursue the manslaughter
33:15
Speaker 10: lesser included offense, which is what I would have recommended.
33:17
Speaker 10: Now that being said, when you're looking at three four,
33:20
Speaker 10: I guess it was four death penalties. All right, Well,
33:24
Speaker 10: then maybe you start changing courses and you try to
33:26
Speaker 10: remove that by pleading guilty to murder. But at the
33:28
Speaker 10: end of the day, the valid defense, the legitimate reason,
33:32
Speaker 10: could have been a manslaughter charge under the Lester included offense.
33:36
Speaker 10: You go to trial and the murders. The jury is
33:38
Speaker 10: given the murder to consider, but they're also given the
33:41
Speaker 10: Lester included offense of manslaughter, an act in the heat
33:44
Speaker 10: of passion that essentially drove you to commit these crimes
33:47
Speaker 10: that should have been and Verry could easily could have
33:50
Speaker 10: been his defense.
33:52
Speaker 1: Okay, he's actually saying this, apparently with a straight face,
33:57
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like if Mark Pepper says it
34:00
Speaker 1: over and over and over enough that we're going to
34:04
Speaker 1: believe it. Okay, because I'm looking around here in the
34:07
Speaker 1: studio and everybody's starting to actually nod their heads. Yes,
34:09
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to you people, but that said,
34:13
Speaker 1: let me throw another wrench at you, Mark. As in
34:18
Speaker 1: the Sean Puffy Combs case where the FEDS said, basically
34:23
Speaker 1: to the States, you failed and they take over the
34:27
Speaker 1: case of Sean Puffy comes, we also see that happening
34:32
Speaker 1: happening in the Luigi Mangioni case, where the FEDS are
34:36
Speaker 1: conducting a dual prosecution at the same time as the
34:40
Speaker 1: state in this case. Is there any way the FEDS
34:47
Speaker 1: can intervene and seek the death penalty on Chris Watts
34:51
Speaker 1: because Colorado we're talking about the death penalty. Colorado doesn't
34:55
Speaker 1: have the death penalty. You can basically kill as many
34:59
Speaker 1: people as you want to there and you're never going
35:01
Speaker 1: to get the death penalty unless the Fed's intervened. What
35:04
Speaker 1: does it take for the FEDS to intervene? Oh, I
35:07
Speaker 1: thought of another one. They also intervened on Jared, Remember
35:12
Speaker 1: Jared the subway pitch guy. They intervened on that as
35:18
Speaker 1: well because he crossed state lines with the purpose of
35:23
Speaker 1: illegal sex with minors. So that's just three off the
35:27
Speaker 1: top of my head. There are many, many more. Why
35:29
Speaker 1: can't they intervene in this?
35:31
Speaker 10: Mark Pepper, Yeah, they can, Nancy in Another one is
35:35
Speaker 10: the Michael Slager case involving Walter Scott. The FEDS came
35:37
Speaker 10: and took that charge over here in South Carolina. So
35:39
Speaker 10: there's You're right, there's many more examples. The answer is,
35:42
Speaker 10: with a stroke of a pen they could come and
35:45
Speaker 10: take it over. There's nothing preventing them from doing it
35:47
Speaker 10: and seeking the death penalty at the federal level. But
35:50
Speaker 10: the reality of it is that it's there's a lot
35:53
Speaker 10: more politics involved than simply the stroke of a pen
35:57
Speaker 10: especially in a midterm year such as this. It is
36:00
Speaker 10: as possible that the federal government that dog could come
36:03
Speaker 10: in and say, Jeyes', what.
36:05
Speaker 1: Do you mean the FEDS won't intervene because you said
36:09
Speaker 1: it's at midterm? Are you throwing this into the political
36:13
Speaker 1: pot the cesspool of pologies?
36:15
Speaker 9: Absolutely?
36:16
Speaker 10: Absolutely, we see it all the time. We see all
36:18
Speaker 10: the time where objective decisions are overridden by political vendettas,
36:24
Speaker 10: certain things such as who's in charge at the DOJ,
36:29
Speaker 10: the under the current presidency, such as who's running the
36:32
Speaker 10: AG's office or the United States Attorney's office in Colorado.
36:35
Speaker 10: Politics play a part in these things. They shouldn't, but
36:38
Speaker 10: the reality is they do. It could that the dj
36:42
Speaker 10: could come in and say, stop what you're doing. Double
36:44
Speaker 10: jeopardy doesn't apply here because under the petit waiver, we're
36:48
Speaker 10: going to go to the DJA. We're going to make
36:50
Speaker 10: sure that this guy gets what he deserves, and the
36:52
Speaker 10: Feds at the DJ we believe he deserves. Definitely, there's
36:55
Speaker 10: nothing preventing them from doing it. I'm just simply making
36:57
Speaker 10: the point that sometimes it's not as easy as the
37:01
Speaker 10: objective decision to take pen to paper and seek it.
37:04
Speaker 10: There are lots of other reasons, mostly political reasons, that
37:10
Speaker 10: we don't see that done as often as probably should be.
37:14
Speaker 1: You know, another thing, Mark Pepper, is that this was
37:17
Speaker 1: no big surprise to Chris Watts because his wife was
37:21
Speaker 1: fighting lupus and very very difficult for her to conceive.
37:27
Speaker 1: Hold on Mark Pepper from the Pepper Law Firm in
37:30
Speaker 1: South Carolina. Doctor Kendall Crown's a joining US Chief Medical
37:34
Speaker 1: Examiner Terran County. Doctor Kendall crowns, what is it about
37:39
Speaker 1: lupus that makes it so difficult for women to conceive?
37:44
Speaker 9: So, lupas is an autoimmune disorder in which your immune
37:48
Speaker 9: system attacks your own body tissues, your muscles, your joints,
37:52
Speaker 9: and even your uterine lining. So when it is attacking
37:55
Speaker 9: the uterine lining, it makes it a hustle environment for
37:58
Speaker 9: the implanttion of the fertilized eggs. So women with lupus
38:03
Speaker 9: often struggle with fertility issues because their immune system is
38:07
Speaker 9: basically preventing them from getting pregnant.
38:10
Speaker 3: sNaN Bella Celeste if you're out there, just just come back, like,
38:15
Speaker 3: if somebody has her, please bring her back. I need
38:19
Speaker 3: to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This
38:22
Speaker 3: house is not complete without anybody here. Please bring it back.
38:28
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if you got it back right now, at
38:31
Speaker 1: that point, you'd have to dig them up out of
38:34
Speaker 1: the shallow grave where Shanan had coffin birth to your
38:38
Speaker 1: son Nico after you put her there, and you'd have
38:41
Speaker 1: to get the two little girls those cylindrical oil containers
38:44
Speaker 1: where you cram them down, rubbing the skin off of
38:47
Speaker 1: their arms. Can I see that one more time? From
38:50
Speaker 1: our friends at Denver seven.
38:52
Speaker 3: Sanan Bella, Celeste. If you're out there, just just come back, like,
38:58
Speaker 3: if somebody has her, please bring her back. I need
39:01
Speaker 3: to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This
39:04
Speaker 3: house is not complete without anybody here. Let's bring it back.
39:12
Speaker 1: Sherilyn Catle is with us tonight. He was spent hours
39:17
Speaker 1: and hours interviewing Chris Wats. When I look at him,
39:22
Speaker 1: he literally makes me sick. Did you hear that? If
39:25
Speaker 1: you're out there, If you're out there, just come back, like,
39:28
Speaker 1: if somebody has her, just please bring her back. I
39:31
Speaker 1: need to see everybody.
39:35
Speaker 7: Very sick of me.
39:36
Speaker 1: Is this man?
39:37
Speaker 7: Yes, I want to say something if I could. This
39:42
Speaker 7: was not a moment of passion that he killed, Shenan.
39:46
Speaker 7: I have letters. I would like for you sometime to
39:49
Speaker 7: see my letters, Nancy from him. I have letters where
39:53
Speaker 7: he tells me what he did, and he says when
39:56
Speaker 7: he put the girls to bed that night, he knew
39:59
Speaker 7: that was the last time he would be kissing his
40:01
Speaker 7: babies good night, because he was going to kill them.
40:04
Speaker 7: He had been planning for two weeks how to do this.
40:07
Speaker 7: He told me that he took them to a birthday
40:10
Speaker 7: party the day before, and he laid at the pool
40:14
Speaker 7: while the girls were playing in this little pool. He
40:17
Speaker 7: laid there daydreaming in his head what he was going
40:21
Speaker 7: to do to his wife and children. This was not
40:24
Speaker 7: a moment of passion at all. He knew what he
40:28
Speaker 7: was doing. He planned what he was doing. I have
40:30
Speaker 7: it in his own handwriting. This was not a man slaughter.
40:36
Speaker 7: This was a cold blooded murder.
40:40
Speaker 1: SHERYLN. Catle hold On just a moment, I've got to
40:42
Speaker 1: go to Mark pepper on that out of South Carolina. Mark,
40:45
Speaker 1: did you hear that I would bring on shild SHERYLN. Catle,
40:49
Speaker 1: state's witness may maybe number three because this gender revealed
40:55
Speaker 1: party pushed me over the edge is total b s
40:59
Speaker 1: technical legal term, because he writes in his own handwriting
41:04
Speaker 1: that he planned it lying by the pool getting a ten.
41:09
Speaker 10: Well, and I appreciate that with all due respect to
41:11
Speaker 10: your guest. You know, that's evidence that may or may
41:15
Speaker 10: not have been entered into the trial of this case.
41:18
Speaker 10: That's what the rules of evidence allowed.
41:19
Speaker 7: Now.
41:19
Speaker 10: I understand statements against interest typically are allowed in a
41:23
Speaker 10: case against the defendant, but again, the foundation would have
41:26
Speaker 10: been laid. We simply don't know whether that evidence would
41:28
Speaker 10: have been admissible in a murder trial, can it?
41:30
Speaker 1: Dear Lord in Heaven, are you going to try to
41:33
Speaker 1: say something Mark Pepper like? That's not his handwriting, right, SHERYLN.
41:37
Speaker 1: Catl just such a liar, isn't she. She's gone to
41:40
Speaker 1: that jail and listen to this guy wine for hundreds
41:45
Speaker 1: of hours. I don't know how she stood it. You know,
41:47
Speaker 1: I think I did know how she stood it. Mark Pepper,
41:50
Speaker 1: have you ever hung out the laundry before you had
41:53
Speaker 1: a dry or we did hunging out in the backyard
41:55
Speaker 1: with those clips? You know? The clotheslinuage just right here.
41:59
Speaker 1: She'd have to hold her nose to listen to this guy.
42:02
Speaker 1: You know what I'll ask her, Charylyn, did you hear
42:04
Speaker 1: that Mark Pepper thinks your letters from Chris Watts should
42:08
Speaker 1: be attacked on authenticity, like what you hid under the
42:13
Speaker 1: blanket on your bed with a flashlight wrote the letters
42:15
Speaker 1: that nobody would find out.
42:17
Speaker 7: Well, actually they have been validated as being real. I
42:25
Speaker 7: have the envelopes that they came in, the dates they
42:27
Speaker 7: were mailed. The dates correspond with the letters, and his
42:30
Speaker 7: handwriting is very recognized school because he writes. Every girl
42:35
Speaker 7: and female all over the country who's got little love
42:38
Speaker 7: letters from him, said that they're not real. It's just
42:42
Speaker 7: so far from there's no way they would hold him
42:45
Speaker 7: in court. My letters are definitely.
42:49
Speaker 1: He just gave me a whole nuther wave of nausea.
42:52
Speaker 1: Sherlyn Catle Uh, Doctor jeryln Utter, did you hear what
42:56
Speaker 1: she said? Love letters from women all over the country.
43:00
Speaker 8: Yeah, this isn't a new concept. We've seen this with
43:02
Speaker 8: serial killers like Ted Bundy in the past, where even
43:06
Speaker 8: Luigi Mangioni like people become kind of enamored and Wade
43:09
Speaker 8: Wilson's another one. Women become enamored with, you know, the
43:13
Speaker 8: bad boy type or whatever you want to classify it
43:15
Speaker 8: or call it. And and that's strictly fantasy world. Clearly
43:19
Speaker 8: these women don't understand. We're probah wait wait wait.
43:22
Speaker 1: Could just hold on, doctor Jerlyn, I'd like to ask
43:25
Speaker 1: the control room in New York to play search their conscience.
43:29
Speaker 1: Why are you showing what you obviously think it's a
43:31
Speaker 1: hotty shot. Take that down right now. He is not hot,
43:36
Speaker 1: he is not sexy. He's a killer. He killed his
43:39
Speaker 1: wife and his children and his unborn baby. Okay, doctor Jerlyn,
43:45
Speaker 1: plays go ahead.
43:47
Speaker 8: So what I was basically just trying to say, Nancy,
43:49
Speaker 8: is that it's it's a commonality. We see this with
43:52
Speaker 8: other serial killers. You have Ted Bundy, you have Wade Wilson,
43:56
Speaker 8: you have this gentleman Chris Watts. People become enamored with
44:00
Speaker 8: quote unquote the band boy. These folks or these women
44:03
Speaker 8: do not realize that they're actually talking to somebody with
44:07
Speaker 8: it with who's a psychopath more or less. And you know,
44:11
Speaker 8: they're exchanging, they're entertaining. It's a form of entertainment. They
44:14
Speaker 8: haven't been afforded the opportunity to see who these people
44:17
Speaker 8: really are. Another thing that I just wanted to mention Nancy,
44:21
Speaker 8: as I'm listening to all this and a crime of
44:23
Speaker 8: passion and all this was very clearly premeditated and planned.
44:28
Speaker 8: Let's not kind of, you know, dismiss that in any
44:31
Speaker 8: type of way he planned on doing this, and then
44:34
Speaker 8: Sheryl and you know obviously confirm that. But what I
44:37
Speaker 8: want to call out is it's not like he snapped
44:40
Speaker 8: all of a sudden and then decided to do this.
44:42
Speaker 8: This is a personality type of presentation that's been with
44:46
Speaker 8: him for for a very long time, since he was
44:48
Speaker 8: you know, a younger person or whatever. Meaning he doesn't
44:51
Speaker 8: have the capability to truly love, and he doesn't have
44:55
Speaker 8: the capability to be remorseful. And when you have a
44:59
Speaker 8: personality organization that way, when you can't empathize, when you
45:02
Speaker 8: can't you know, be sympathized, and when you can't truly love,
45:07
Speaker 8: it makes it very easy to do what he did.
45:10
Speaker 8: And that's the part that we really need to pay
45:12
Speaker 8: attention to. This is someone who way before these murders,
45:16
Speaker 8: and you know, he was never violent before, but that
45:19
Speaker 8: doesn't descredit the fact that This is somebody who was
45:21
Speaker 8: incapable of true emotional connection to another human being, anyone
45:26
Speaker 8: his daughters and his wife. So that's something I think
45:29
Speaker 8: we really have to pay attention to. Is Yes, it
45:31
Speaker 8: happened probably when he was in his thirties, but this
45:33
Speaker 8: is who he has been throughout his life.
45:37
Speaker 1: The Gender Revealed Party made me do it. And what's
45:41
Speaker 1: so crazy is to hear Mark Pepper talk that's perfectly believable. Well,
45:49
Speaker 1: it's not believable to me, and tonight I beg the
45:53
Speaker 1: FEDS to intervene in this case on behalf of Shenan Watts, Bella, Celeste,
46:00
Speaker 1: and Nico. Tonight we remember an American hero Officer, Dylan Owen, Citronelle, PD, Alabama,
46:08
Speaker 1: just twenty six, killed in the line of duty after
46:11
Speaker 1: two years on the force, leaving behind grieving parents Christy
46:16
Speaker 1: and Kenny. American hero Officer Dylan Owen. Thank you to
46:21
Speaker 1: our guest, but especially to you for being with us
46:24
Speaker 1: tonight and joining us and our search for justice for Shanan, Bella,
46:30
Speaker 1: Celeste and Nico. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but
46:33
Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend,