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School boy commits suicide after school bullies aren't stopped · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. They would come right over
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Speaker 1: to his lunch table and mess with him and telling
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Speaker 1: that he was worthless and that he should kill himself
0:21
Speaker 1: and everything else, and nobody saw it. I don't get it.
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Speaker 1: We asked students, and we asked the teachers and stuff.
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Speaker 1: Well did you ever hear Aaron yelling back at these
0:39
Speaker 1: kids or trying to defend himself? And everybody told us no.
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Speaker 1: Aaron would just sit there quietly, and he would get upset,
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Speaker 1: and then he would storm out of the lunch room.
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Speaker 1: Every night. When I go to go upstairs, his room
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Speaker 1: as right across from ours. I walk upstairs and I
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Speaker 1: look in there. I still can't believe it, and I
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Speaker 1: say good night to me and I tell him that
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Speaker 1: I love him. I don't get it either. I do
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Speaker 1: not get it. Why this little boy in Ohio, sixth
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Speaker 1: grader was bullied and bullied and bullied, people making fun
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Speaker 1: of his clothes, people making fun of him, about every
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Speaker 1: single thing I've read so much about Aaron Fuller. How
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Speaker 1: finally at the end he would just go and sit
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Speaker 1: all by himself in the lunch room and not even
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Speaker 1: fight back against his bullies. And now Aaron is gone
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Speaker 1: and left trying to put the pieces back together. His
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Speaker 1: mom and dad, Tammy and Steve Fuller, who are joining
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Speaker 1: me right now. If you have a child, if you
1:58
Speaker 1: have a grandchild, if you have a child that you
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Speaker 1: love more than anything in the world like I do,
2:05
Speaker 1: please listen, I Meancy Grace, this is crime stories. Thank
2:09
Speaker 1: you for being with us. They told him to do it.
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Speaker 1: Quote they told him to do it and Ohio sixth grader.
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Speaker 1: Sixth grader commits suicide after bullies mocked him, torture him,
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Speaker 1: belittle him, be rate him, encouraging him to take his
2:30
Speaker 1: own life straight out. First to Dad, Steve Fuller, Steven Tammy,
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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Did you
2:43
Speaker 1: have any idea Steve, what was going on at school? Um?
2:50
Speaker 1: Not at first, and then like he said it back
2:54
Speaker 1: in in September one, he tried to drink him. So
2:59
Speaker 1: today he said he was just trained to forget everything
3:04
Speaker 1: that was going on, and UM, we started to find
3:08
Speaker 1: out what was going on. So we contacted the school
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Speaker 1: and told them. They said they were going to um
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Speaker 1: try and get it to stop because they have a
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Speaker 1: no bully policy, and it just it just didn't stop. Well,
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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know what that means to Tammy Fuller,
3:34
Speaker 1: this is Aaron's step mom. What is a no bully policy?
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Speaker 1: Because I'm pretty sure my children they were eleven, that
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Speaker 1: their school has a no bully policy, But every day
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Speaker 1: I hear about bullying at school, even though there's a
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Speaker 1: no bully policy. What is a no bully policy, Nancy?
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Speaker 1: It's not seen. It's just a way for the schools
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Speaker 1: to try to protect themselves. And I mean, when it's not,
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Speaker 1: what do you think it is? What do they claim
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Speaker 1: it is? They said that they do whatever they can
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Speaker 1: when they know what's happening, but they don't. Well, they
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Speaker 1: had to know this was happening. You brought it to
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Speaker 1: their attention, but it didn't stop it. They told us
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Speaker 1: the last time we were up there that it was
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Speaker 1: no bullying really involved. The first few times this happened,
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Speaker 1: like back in September, they said that that wasn't the
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Speaker 1: kid being a bully, it was just being being a punk. Well,
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Speaker 1: I don't know what the difference between that is, Steve.
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Speaker 1: What what the difference is when you have a bully
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Speaker 1: at school and you warned the bully and the bully
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Speaker 1: does it one more time the bully needs to go.
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Speaker 1: Can I just tell you something that happened For about
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Speaker 1: I would say two years, my son John David, and
5:01
Speaker 1: he is a gentle giant. He's already taller than me,
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Speaker 1: and his sister, however, is much smaller. For two years,
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Speaker 1: Steve and Tammy, he would come home and either he
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Speaker 1: would tell me or a sister would tell me there
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Speaker 1: was a guy who had been held back, maybe one
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Speaker 1: or two years, I don't know, but he was huge,
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Speaker 1: even bigger than John David. And John David would get
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Speaker 1: tripped or accidentally pushed down, and John David would always say, well,
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Speaker 1: you know what, it might have been an accident. My
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Speaker 1: please don't say anything. He'll just make it so much worse.
5:37
Speaker 1: And they started saying that both of them snitches get stitches,
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Speaker 1: all right. So he convinced me that he thought there
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Speaker 1: was a chance it was an accident. But it was
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Speaker 1: always the same kid, all right. Finally, the third year
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Speaker 1: on the playground, he punched John David in the stomach
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Speaker 1: and then spit on him. Can I tell you how
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Speaker 1: crazy I went by? I held it in. I held
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Speaker 1: it in until three o'clock and then I waited outside
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Speaker 1: the principles, and I talked and talked and talked and talked.
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Speaker 1: And the next day, believe it or not, as I'm
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Speaker 1: sitting there in mind in my own business, actually on
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Speaker 1: the conference call, another mom came up to my window
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Speaker 1: and was knocking on my window. I got off the call,
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Speaker 1: let it down, and I'm like hey, And she said
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Speaker 1: the same thing had happened to her son, and that
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Speaker 1: there were a lot of other parents, And when I
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Speaker 1: come to a meeting, I'm like, yea'll come to a meeting.
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Speaker 1: I got in the meeting Steve and Tammy, and there
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Speaker 1: were twenty two other parents. They were parents of eleven children,
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Speaker 1: and there were apparently a lot of other parents that
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Speaker 1: could not fit in the conference room that were not there.
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Speaker 1: All of them had been punched, kicked, their pants pulled
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Speaker 1: down and then punched in the stomach, all sorts of
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Speaker 1: stuff with this one kid, and none of the other
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Speaker 1: parents knew about the other one looked at I could
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Speaker 1: not believe it, Steve. So it's hard for me to
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Speaker 1: believe that the school didn't know Aaron was being bullied.
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Speaker 1: And we know that they did, and they know that
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Speaker 1: they did too. It's just you're talking about schools that
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Speaker 1: you're going to try to go after to try to
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Speaker 1: get some kind of answer, and they're only allowed to
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Speaker 1: say so much or else they get in trouble. My
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Speaker 1: oldest son, a friend of his head some bracelets made
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Speaker 1: up with in memory of Aaron on it, and he's
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Speaker 1: not even allowed to pass him out at the school.
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Speaker 1: I'm happy to say that finally, after all these parents
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Speaker 1: came forward, and one of them even threatening to sue,
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Speaker 1: they did get rid of the kid all right, and
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Speaker 1: from what I understand, he's already been suspended or thrown
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Speaker 1: out at the next school. What I don't understand is why,
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Speaker 1: when you know you have a bully, why keeps going
8:00
Speaker 1: on and on and on. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
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Speaker 1: joining me. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer who's very
8:23
Speaker 1: well versed in this area of law. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: renowned psychoanalics from LA. You can find her at doctor
8:29
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Nancy Willard, author Attorney, Be Positively
8:35
Speaker 1: Powerful and Empowerment Plan for teens who are bullied or harassed.
8:39
Speaker 1: What a book. You can find it on Amazon. John
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Speaker 1: Limley Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. But the reality
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Speaker 1: of bullying can end like this, Tammy. Do you remember
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Speaker 1: when you learned that your other son had found Aaron
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Speaker 1: and he had taken his own life. Yeah, I never
9:02
Speaker 1: ran upstairs so fast. Ever, that night, I think you
9:07
Speaker 1: guys had gone out for pizza to bring it home.
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Speaker 1: You weren't gone for long. What happened when you got home?
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Speaker 1: We called for Aaron. He didn't answer. I thought he
9:18
Speaker 1: was asleep, so we sent Joe upstairs to get him,
9:23
Speaker 1: and that's when he started yelling, and Steve and I
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Speaker 1: got up the stairs and immediately just started CPR on
9:31
Speaker 1: him and called nine one one. We did CPR for
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Speaker 1: half an hour before the EMS got here and started
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Speaker 1: and took over. But he was gone before we even started.
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Speaker 1: Just thinking, looking at a picture of Aaron right now,
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Speaker 1: he just is the most precious boy, just absolutely precious.
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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking how things could have been so different
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Speaker 1: and why it had to be this way with me?
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Speaker 1: Is Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer. We are talking
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Speaker 1: about the completely avoidable death of a handsome, handsome little boy,
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Speaker 1: an Ohio sixth grader who commits suicide after bullies at school.
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Speaker 1: Mock him, his clothes, everything about him. At first he
10:28
Speaker 1: would fight back, and then he just sat there and
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Speaker 1: just took it. Kathleen Murphy, you have seen this over
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Speaker 1: and over in your work. Why what would takes so
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Speaker 1: long for the school to act, Nancy, I don't only
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Speaker 1: see it in my job, but I have that experience
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Speaker 1: among my son and his friends, and they just had
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Speaker 1: the conversation. You cannot say anything to your teachers because
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Speaker 1: it only makes it worse. You can't say anything to
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Speaker 1: the guidance counselor because they'll only make it worse. You
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Speaker 1: can't say any think to your parents because it only
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Speaker 1: makes it worse. So, not only are these children in
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Speaker 1: a situation where they're being bullied, they don't know how
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Speaker 1: to turn to the school or how to turn to
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Speaker 1: their parents to resolve the problem because it is such
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Speaker 1: a prespervasive issue in the schools, And personally, I think
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Speaker 1: schools are too big, and I think it's too much
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Speaker 1: on some of the teachers and staff to have this
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Speaker 1: on their plate. It is a lot to deal with.
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Speaker 1: It involves mental health, and it involves social status, and
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Speaker 1: it involves just so many components. Well, I have a question.
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Speaker 1: We need a shrink before I go to the expert.
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Speaker 1: Nancy Willard be positively powerful. The author of that on
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Speaker 1: Amazon doctor Bethany Marshall, I need a shrink number one.
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Speaker 1: What is going on in the head of the bully
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Speaker 1: and what about all the children the teams that stand
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Speaker 1: on the side and do nothing well in terms of
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Speaker 1: the mind of the bully, the bully becomes used to
12:09
Speaker 1: a power imbalance. You know when your kids were little
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Speaker 1: and you saw them play, One child would wrestle and
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Speaker 1: be on top of the other, and then they would
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Speaker 1: flip positions with the person who was on top being underneath,
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Speaker 1: so there would be top bottom, top bottom. We see
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Speaker 1: this in every aspect of the animal kingdom. Cats do it,
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Speaker 1: dogs do it, squirrels do it. Children do it. Where
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Speaker 1: they share power in play, okay, that is an important
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Speaker 1: precursor to good mental health and good development and growing
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Speaker 1: into adults. Where adults can share power positions with each other,
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Speaker 1: one person can be one up and one down. For instance,
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Speaker 1: little kids will say I'm the king of the castle,
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Speaker 1: you're the dirty rascal, or I'm the cop and you're
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Speaker 1: the robber, and they'll play that way for a while,
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Speaker 1: but then they will switch positions where the cop turns
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Speaker 1: into the robber and the robber turns into the cop.
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Speaker 1: Bullies get stuck in the power position. They are always
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Speaker 1: the king of the castle. They are always the cop.
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Speaker 1: They always take that one up position. And I think
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Speaker 1: sometimes it's because of what's going on in their family.
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Speaker 1: It could be a powerful group psychology in the school.
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Speaker 1: It could be that they're just really disturbed little kids, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: Not all kids were disturbed. Are disturbed because they come
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Speaker 1: from bad family. Sometimes they are born that way. And
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Speaker 1: the best thing that the child can do who is
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Speaker 1: being bullied is talk to some other person who is there,
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Speaker 1: like a teacher, their parent. Stay in a safe space,
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Speaker 1: don't be isolated, good posture, stand up straight, look the
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Speaker 1: other person in the eye. There are things we can
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Speaker 1: do to help our kids to stop being bullied. But
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Speaker 1: bullies are bullies. They're bullies forever. They will stay that
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Speaker 1: way throughout the lifespan. Well, I want to go to
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Speaker 1: Tammy and stay fuller. Who are joining us? This is
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Speaker 1: Aaron's stepmom and dad. I know Aaron would tell you
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Speaker 1: at some point point, I would tell you he was
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Speaker 1: getting bullied at school. Did you feel helpless? Did you
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Speaker 1: feel like there was something you could do about it.
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Speaker 1: What did you do with What was your advice to him? Well,
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Speaker 1: I told him to talk to his teachers and stuff,
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Speaker 1: and that I would go up and talk to him
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Speaker 1: and try to figure something out. But we try to
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Speaker 1: get Aaron to understand that, you know, you have to
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Speaker 1: talk to somebody about it, because if he don't, it
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Speaker 1: just bottles up and they cause us more problems than necessary.
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Speaker 1: And so we would tell him to talk to his
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Speaker 1: teachers and stuff, try to get moved from one spot
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Speaker 1: to another so he'd stay away from him, which we
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Speaker 1: were told by the teachers that they would make sure
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Speaker 1: he was sitting in a different area in the lunch
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Speaker 1: room and stuff, and they would keep an eye on
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Speaker 1: him because they didn't tolerate the bullying and stuff. And
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Speaker 1: it just didn't work. I feel sometimes, Timmy Fuller, this
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Speaker 1: is Aaron's step mom, almost helpless because your child can
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Speaker 1: beg you not to intervene because they think it would
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Speaker 1: make it worse. And then you stand by when I say, Philly,
15:24
Speaker 1: help us. You want to do something, but you don't
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Speaker 1: know what to do. Timmy, what did you tell him
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Speaker 1: that he could come to us? He could talk to
15:33
Speaker 1: us about anything and tell us what was going on,
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Speaker 1: and we would try to do what we could do. Guys,
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Speaker 1: we were talking to the parents of Aaron Fuller. They
15:41
Speaker 1: found Aaron dead in the home. They had only been
15:45
Speaker 1: out a short while to bring home at pizza. Joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, attorney and author Nancy Willard. Nancy's book
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Speaker 1: Be Positively Powerful and Empowerment Plan for Teams who are
15:56
Speaker 1: bullied or harassed. Nancy, I think we need help. I
16:01
Speaker 1: don't know if I mishandled John David and Lucy has
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Speaker 1: girl bullies. Her girl bullies started in pre K for
16:09
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, and I managed to help Lucy. But with
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Speaker 1: John David it was too late. We were already in
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Speaker 1: it that year. I couldn't get him in another class.
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Speaker 1: I couldn't rearrange everything. It just leaves you feeling so helpless, Nancy. Indeed,
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Speaker 1: what educators were being told about bullying behavior was in
16:38
Speaker 1: part accurate. Um. Now, Bethany got it nailed right. She's
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Speaker 1: talking about this. This suck in a mode of seeking dominance,
16:51
Speaker 1: and this is dominance behavior related to that that relates
16:56
Speaker 1: to animal behavior. Sometimes the students who engage in bullying
17:01
Speaker 1: are the ones who are have also been bullied, have
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Speaker 1: experienced trauma, and they're trying to fight their way kind
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Speaker 1: of back up. But a lot of the young people
17:12
Speaker 1: who engage in bullying are the popular leadership students whose
17:17
Speaker 1: stamp think are just great. And what they are doing,
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Speaker 1: especially as they approach puberty, is they are engaging in
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Speaker 1: its favor to achieve seek to achieve higher social status
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Speaker 1: and dominance. And the other thing that I saw is
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Speaker 1: that the approach that educators have been directed and this
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Speaker 1: is they've been directed by state statute in every state
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Speaker 1: to respond to this is to make rules a policy.
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Speaker 1: This is against the policy. We have a no bullying zone,
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Speaker 1: which is absolutely ridiculous. And so they create the policy
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Speaker 1: and he tell stums to report and then and reporting
18:04
Speaker 1: has profound risks. Nick snitches get stitches, um, So most
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Speaker 1: young people don't report crime stories. With Nancy Grace joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley, John,
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Speaker 1: we've got it beast backwards this morning. And that's my fault.
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Speaker 1: I didn't start with the facts. Tell me what happened, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: The story begins just one Friday night, after a week
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Speaker 1: of work, for Stephen Tammy school for the boys. Aaron
18:57
Speaker 1: and Joseph at home home while their parents went out
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Speaker 1: to get some dinners some pizza for a Friday night
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Speaker 1: to sort of celebrate. There's another another week gone. We
19:09
Speaker 1: can say goodbye to that one. When Steve and Tammy
19:13
Speaker 1: returned home just about forty five minutes later, they walk
19:17
Speaker 1: in the door and call out to the boys that
19:20
Speaker 1: you know, suppers here, come on down. And Joseph comes down,
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Speaker 1: but no Aaron. And so they send Tammy and Steve
19:31
Speaker 1: send Joseph upstairs to go get and go get his brother.
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Speaker 1: And that's when they hear him yell out, and then
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Speaker 1: Steve and Tammy go rushing up and that that's when
19:44
Speaker 1: they see this, this horrible sight that their their son
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Speaker 1: has hung himself with a belt. You know, when I'm
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Speaker 1: hearing you tell the story, John Linley, is so overwhelming. Guys,
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Speaker 1: for those of you that need help, please call National
20:01
Speaker 1: Suicide Prevention Lifeline eight hundred two seven three eight two
20:06
Speaker 1: five five or text TA l K talk to seven
20:10
Speaker 1: four one seven four one. Listen. Family friends and their
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Speaker 1: lawyer calling for change within the district. Brian Claypool is
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Speaker 1: the obolo's lawyer. He says the school district knew she
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Speaker 1: was being bullied for months and didn't do anything to
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Speaker 1: protect her. He says Rosalie left a final note before
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Speaker 1: taking her own life. In the note, she asked her
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Speaker 1: parents not to show her picture at her own funeral.
20:32
Speaker 1: The fact that this little girl would be so verbally
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Speaker 1: abused at a school to a point where she writes
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Speaker 1: a suicide note to her parents saying she doesn't even
20:44
Speaker 1: feel like she's worthy of a picture at her funeral,
20:48
Speaker 1: speaks volumes. The Yucaipa Calamasa School District says their teachers
20:52
Speaker 1: and students are also mourning the loss of Rosalie. They
20:55
Speaker 1: release a statement that says, in part, we strive every
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Speaker 1: day to be a safe support of an engaging learning environment.
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Speaker 1: We will continue to raise awareness and work with students
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Speaker 1: in the community to support our children. Joining me Tammy
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Speaker 1: Fuller and Steve Fuller. They are the parents of sixth
21:11
Speaker 1: grader Aaron Fuller, who killed himself after being bullied and
21:15
Speaker 1: cyber bullied by people at school. Now you were just
21:18
Speaker 1: hearing our friend at CBS News talking about another little
21:23
Speaker 1: girl about the same age as Aaron, Rosalia a Villa,
21:26
Speaker 1: who hung herself after bullying. I mean it's growing. There
21:31
Speaker 1: are more and more and more students this very age
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Speaker 1: and even younger that are taking their own lives because
21:40
Speaker 1: they don't know what else to do. I want to
21:43
Speaker 1: go to Steve Fuller, this is Aaron's dad. When you
21:48
Speaker 1: look back on it, do you think, oh, I should,
21:51
Speaker 1: I could, I would have. I mean, what else could
21:56
Speaker 1: you possibly have done. We talked all the time about
22:01
Speaker 1: stuff to me and Joseph and Tammy and just everybody
22:09
Speaker 1: would try to talk to him and tell him, you know,
22:15
Speaker 1: don't worry about what they say because he was in
22:21
Speaker 1: the band and stuff. He was he was really talented
22:27
Speaker 1: playing the bass guitar, and we just tried to reassure
22:31
Speaker 1: him that he was doing a good job with that.
22:35
Speaker 1: And we just we tried to do everything we could
22:39
Speaker 1: to show him that his life wasn't as bad as
22:44
Speaker 1: they were trying to make it sound. I mean, when
22:46
Speaker 1: you went to the school, Tammy, what did the school
22:49
Speaker 1: tell you? I mean, did you alert I'm sure you
22:52
Speaker 1: did alerted the school he was being bullied. I was
22:55
Speaker 1: at that school every time, in front of the principles,
22:59
Speaker 1: and they promised to me that they would take care
23:01
Speaker 1: of it. But the final Estrallas when Jim went the
23:05
Speaker 1: superintendent said to me, it's just kids being boles, it's
23:11
Speaker 1: not bullying. And I said to him, I send my
23:15
Speaker 1: children to the school thinking they're safe, and they're not.
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Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina Family Warrior, that just sends a
23:22
Speaker 1: chill down my spine. It's just kids being a holes.
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Speaker 1: That's what a bully is. Well, this is the same
23:29
Speaker 1: talk that parents would hear in the nineteen fifties. It's
23:34
Speaker 1: just kids being kids, and then in the seventies and
23:37
Speaker 1: then in the eighties. We got to do a better job.
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Speaker 1: We have to find that solution. And the solution involves
23:45
Speaker 1: us all. It involves our children being raised to be stronger.
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Speaker 1: It involves the parents being in tune with those children
23:57
Speaker 1: like your guests are today. They were in tune with
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Speaker 1: their son. It involves the teachers knowing their kids. It
24:04
Speaker 1: involves a smaller community of teachers and children in the classroom,
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Speaker 1: and it involves a public service that you're doing right
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Speaker 1: now today. I know, Kathleen, I'm sorry. I usually always
24:17
Speaker 1: agree with you, but I'm just hearing words words, words,
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Speaker 1: blah blah blah because they did all that. They did
24:24
Speaker 1: all that, and it didn't work, and nothing happened, and
24:28
Speaker 1: now he's gone. I mean, it just escalated. Oh I
24:34
Speaker 1: took my child out of school for a while because
24:38
Speaker 1: I don't he wasn't necessarily subjected to intense bullying, but
24:42
Speaker 1: he felt very awkward at the school and he felt
24:47
Speaker 1: a bit overwhelmed, and I brought him home for a while. Well,
24:51
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what we did. We decided to take
24:55
Speaker 1: the children out of that particular school, which had and
24:59
Speaker 1: has an excellent reputation, because it just seemed to me
25:02
Speaker 1: like nothing was getting better. And then I found out
25:07
Speaker 1: it wasn't just my son, who I've always taught because
25:12
Speaker 1: he's so big, you're you can't rough house too much,
25:17
Speaker 1: you can't hurt anybody, and we've instilled that into him.
25:21
Speaker 1: And then I felt, did I do the wrong thing?
25:23
Speaker 1: Should he punched this kid back? What? What should we do?
25:26
Speaker 1: Finally I decided to just yank him out. And then
25:29
Speaker 1: at the very last minute, literally as we were signing
25:33
Speaker 1: into another school and had toured it, and the whole shebang,
25:38
Speaker 1: they kicked the problem out. And now there has been
25:42
Speaker 1: no discussion of boy bullying. Now the girl bullying as
25:46
Speaker 1: a whole other can of worms. Dr Bethany Marshall. It's
25:51
Speaker 1: like the plastics the mean Girls times a hundred, and this,
25:56
Speaker 1: you know, all started in pre k. I managed after
25:59
Speaker 1: prey when Lucy would cry the whole way home because
26:02
Speaker 1: she's a really quiet, very shy little girl. She would
26:06
Speaker 1: cry the whole way home every day after SCO. I
26:09
Speaker 1: can't take this anymore, it's just killing me. So from
26:12
Speaker 1: then on I just simply had Lucy and John David
26:17
Speaker 1: in a different class than the bullies, and the bullies
26:20
Speaker 1: stayed in their class together. She had no more problems.
26:23
Speaker 1: I felt so bad for the other girls in the
26:25
Speaker 1: other class. I had the bully, Doctor Bethany Crime Stories
26:42
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace girl bullying as a whole other can
26:48
Speaker 1: of worms, Doctor Bethany Marshall. It's like the plastics the
26:54
Speaker 1: mean girls times a hundred, and this, you know, all
26:57
Speaker 1: started in pre k Man after pre k, when Lucy
27:01
Speaker 1: would cry the whole way home. She's a really quiet,
27:05
Speaker 1: very shy little girl. She would cry the whole way
27:08
Speaker 1: home every day after SCO. I can't take this anymore,
27:11
Speaker 1: it's just killing me. So from then on, I just
27:14
Speaker 1: simply had Lucy and John David in a different class
27:19
Speaker 1: than the bullies, and the bullies stayed in their class together.
27:22
Speaker 1: She had no more problems. I felt so bad for
27:25
Speaker 1: the other girls in the other class that had the
27:27
Speaker 1: bully doctor Bethany. Really, but it's not like the administration
27:33
Speaker 1: doesn't know. They know. So what is what is the
27:36
Speaker 1: thinking of these the administration that really just does nothing?
27:40
Speaker 1: Why are they so afraid to throw out the bullies? Okay, Nancy?
27:42
Speaker 1: First of all, the thinking is the same as people
27:45
Speaker 1: who witness spousal abuse, child abuse. Somebody's being perpetrated on
27:50
Speaker 1: in their neighborhood, and they don't call adult protective services,
27:54
Speaker 1: they don't call child abuse hotlines. They always imagine, they
27:59
Speaker 1: think they're a imagining it and they do not want
28:01
Speaker 1: to get somebody in trouble. But I can tell you
28:04
Speaker 1: if you see a child bullying another child, you are
28:07
Speaker 1: not imagining it. And remember I talked about Bethany. I
28:11
Speaker 1: gotta tell you a story that happened to me. Okay.
28:13
Speaker 1: I was at a book signing and it was my
28:16
Speaker 1: first nonfiction so it's a long time ago. Objection, and
28:21
Speaker 1: a woman came up to me and I thought I
28:23
Speaker 1: recognized her, but I wasn't sure. And she said, I
28:26
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember me, but when we were
28:30
Speaker 1: in there, I think she said eighth grade or tenth grade,
28:33
Speaker 1: she said, I was getting bullied and you came in
28:38
Speaker 1: between me and the bullies and yelled at them and
28:40
Speaker 1: told them to leave me alone. Was she said that
28:42
Speaker 1: it triggered a memory. And this was a girl who
28:46
Speaker 1: was just the cutest thing ever. And she lived with
28:49
Speaker 1: her grandma. I never knew where her parents were. I mean,
28:52
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you don't think about, wow, what happened?
28:54
Speaker 1: Where are your parents? But the grandma would make her outfits. Okay,
29:00
Speaker 1: so she would always wear a matching ensemble. Okay, now
29:04
Speaker 1: for an adult that may be great, But when you're
29:06
Speaker 1: wearing a plaid pear of pants, a plaid jacket, a
29:09
Speaker 1: plaid shirt, and a plaid hat to school, and then
29:13
Speaker 1: the next day you wear a velvet green jacket, a
29:16
Speaker 1: velvet green peara pants, you know, and a velvet green
29:20
Speaker 1: hat to school, I mean, I mean for kids, that's
29:26
Speaker 1: not the way they dressed. That's the way your grandma dresses.
29:29
Speaker 1: And they were beautiful clothes, but everybody would make fun
29:33
Speaker 1: of her every day. And I remember this when she
29:37
Speaker 1: came up and said that I sub I hadn't thought
29:39
Speaker 1: of it since then. There were like three other girls,
29:44
Speaker 1: or maybe four, and they had a kind of like
29:46
Speaker 1: back in the corner. We didn't have lockers, we had
29:48
Speaker 1: cubby holes, and she was against the cubbies, and they
29:51
Speaker 1: were all like her, wranguing her about her clothes. And
29:54
Speaker 1: I hardly even remembered it. And all it took was
29:57
Speaker 1: leave her alone. You're you're just Maane. Go bother, go
30:03
Speaker 1: go go away, go bother somebody else and they all
30:06
Speaker 1: just disperse like roaches. And it was just one sentence.
30:09
Speaker 1: Believe me, I was not a hero. It was just
30:11
Speaker 1: that and they all went away. And sometimes I think
30:15
Speaker 1: that's all it takes, just somebody. I'm surprised I didn't
30:19
Speaker 1: punch me in the nose looking back on it. But
30:23
Speaker 1: sometimes it just takes one sentence or somebody just call
30:27
Speaker 1: him out one time. Well, Nancy, there are positive uses
30:32
Speaker 1: of power and negative uses of power. The bully abuses power.
30:37
Speaker 1: What you did for your friend who, bless her heart,
30:39
Speaker 1: she was a moving target and her all ploid outfit
30:42
Speaker 1: is that you engaged in a positive use of power.
30:45
Speaker 1: And that for any parent who's listening, that is a
30:48
Speaker 1: very important thing to teach your child to do. Teach
30:52
Speaker 1: them to do things as simple as to stand up straight,
30:55
Speaker 1: not lean over. Teach them to look the bully in
30:58
Speaker 1: the eyes. Maybe they focused on the color of the
31:01
Speaker 1: other person's eyes. It will give them the bully the
31:04
Speaker 1: perception that that person is on the same level. Teach
31:08
Speaker 1: them not to turn their back to the bully. Teach
31:11
Speaker 1: them to stay in public places, like sitting right behind
31:14
Speaker 1: the school bus driver or staying near the teacher's desk
31:19
Speaker 1: so they can't be bullied, Nancy. The most startling thing
31:22
Speaker 1: I ever saw in terms of helping bullies to stop
31:25
Speaker 1: bullying was a tape by Virginia Seteer, who was one
31:30
Speaker 1: of the founders of family therapy. And in it what
31:33
Speaker 1: she did there was a girl who was being aggressed
31:36
Speaker 1: against by her brother, and she got the family on
31:39
Speaker 1: a stage and she made the brother get on his knees,
31:43
Speaker 1: hands and knees or knees and beg the sister for forgiveness.
31:47
Speaker 1: And she made him do it again and again and
31:50
Speaker 1: again that he had to learn to ask for forgiveness.
31:53
Speaker 1: And now I know now that what she was doing.
31:55
Speaker 1: Was she was putting the little sister in the one
31:58
Speaker 1: up power position, sitting higher in a chair. The brother, Well,
32:02
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and I'm glad it worn't for them.
32:04
Speaker 1: But with Tammy and Steve, they kept going to the
32:07
Speaker 1: school and trying to change that dynamic you're telling me about,
32:12
Speaker 1: and according to them, the school district told them there
32:15
Speaker 1: was nothing that could be done because Aaron had quote
32:18
Speaker 1: participated in an online exchange. And I guess what they
32:21
Speaker 1: mean by that. Steve is he responded to the cyber
32:26
Speaker 1: bullies online when they were antagonizing him and Jackie here
32:30
Speaker 1: in the studios. Steve just brought something up that bullies
32:33
Speaker 1: have been around forever, but it seems like cyber bullying.
32:37
Speaker 1: But you didn't used to hear about kids suicides, But
32:41
Speaker 1: with cyber bullying now, the kid's suicide rate has soared.
32:46
Speaker 1: Tell me about Aaron's cyber bullying online. Well, he come
32:51
Speaker 1: downstairs one day obsessed, and I asked him what was
32:54
Speaker 1: going on, and he told me that the kids that
32:57
Speaker 1: were born him were on Snapchat or whatever it is,
33:04
Speaker 1: they were online, and I had him bring his phone
33:08
Speaker 1: down and it was showing me all the stuff that
33:13
Speaker 1: they were saying. But what he didn't tell me is
33:16
Speaker 1: he was erasing the stuff that he was saying back
33:18
Speaker 1: to him. So we had got hold of the school,
33:22
Speaker 1: and then the school got hold of the other boys
33:26
Speaker 1: and talked to them and they said, well, he was
33:30
Speaker 1: saying stuff back to us. So they asked to see
33:34
Speaker 1: their phones, and then they told us that the stuff
33:38
Speaker 1: that Aaron was saying back to him, and Aaron's friends
33:43
Speaker 1: were also chaming in behind what's what Aaron was saying?
33:48
Speaker 1: And if they didn't, they were going to have to
33:52
Speaker 1: deal with all of Aaron's friends. You know, I'm hearing you, Steve,
33:56
Speaker 1: and I'm hearing you. I just want to say one
33:59
Speaker 1: thing I've discovered, Steve, and I discovered it when I
34:03
Speaker 1: was writing a book and I'm working on it right
34:05
Speaker 1: now called Don't Be a Victim. And there's a whole
34:08
Speaker 1: section there about school school safety, and a large degree
34:13
Speaker 1: is about bullying. I learned with the cyber bullying, it
34:22
Speaker 1: gets so intense, and it's so easy to just fire
34:26
Speaker 1: off a text or a snapchat or an email and
34:30
Speaker 1: you don't even think twice. Ta's fifteen seconds. But then
34:33
Speaker 1: it's there forever I find out about this thing called
34:37
Speaker 1: bark baark, and I'm plugged into the children's phones for
34:44
Speaker 1: all of your parents listening. Whenever there's anything there's profanity,
34:49
Speaker 1: there's violence, there's bullying, there's sex, there's all these things.
34:55
Speaker 1: Whenever anything remotely like the words slap or hit. It
35:00
Speaker 1: may be completely out of context, but I get an
35:03
Speaker 1: alert on my phone. I get an email immediately going
35:07
Speaker 1: there is a problem on Lucy's phone, and I immediately
35:10
Speaker 1: look up to see what the problem is. A lot
35:12
Speaker 1: of times she's downloaded a video where the word is
35:15
Speaker 1: in there and it's not an actual exchange, but it's
35:20
Speaker 1: so scary. Things pop up all the time. Tammy. I
35:27
Speaker 1: think Jackie may be right here in the studio with me,
35:31
Speaker 1: because bullying has been around forever, but we did not
35:34
Speaker 1: see a wave of children committing suicide. It seems like
35:39
Speaker 1: the change has been the cyber bullying. Tammy. I agree.
35:43
Speaker 1: In fact, two weeks after Aaron died, there was another
35:47
Speaker 1: boy from the same school that hung himself because of
35:50
Speaker 1: the same reason. You're kidding, No, no, I'm not, Oh
35:54
Speaker 1: my Starry. He died on the twenty sixth of January,
35:57
Speaker 1: where Aaron died on the what is the school saying
36:01
Speaker 1: nothing at all, Danny, believe it or not, I'm actually speechless.
36:08
Speaker 1: John Limley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, You didn't
36:12
Speaker 1: tell me that. You didn't tell me that. In one school,
36:15
Speaker 1: in a space of weeks, two young children committed suicide
36:23
Speaker 1: because of bullying. What school district is this? John Limley?
36:27
Speaker 1: Who is this? It is unfathomable. What is going on
36:32
Speaker 1: in schools these days? We were talking earlier about Rosalie,
36:39
Speaker 1: the first sound we heard of Vila, Rosalie a Vila,
36:44
Speaker 1: and she experienced NonStop verbal abuse. But to make matters worse,
36:52
Speaker 1: classmates were circulating a video portraying what an ugly girl
36:57
Speaker 1: looked like and what a pretty girl looked like, and
37:00
Speaker 1: used a picture of Rosalie to portray the ugly girl.
37:04
Speaker 1: And forgive me for interjecting my own opinion, but she
37:08
Speaker 1: was anything but ugly, a beautiful child. The video was
37:12
Speaker 1: circulated throughout the school and online. It went viral and
37:16
Speaker 1: it's so sad. In her suicide note, Rosalie apologized to
37:20
Speaker 1: her parents for being ugly and asked that in her
37:25
Speaker 1: obituary they not post her picture so people wouldn't make
37:29
Speaker 1: fun of her Nancy Willard, attorney and author to Be
37:32
Speaker 1: Positively Powerful, an empowerment plan for teens who are buoyed
37:36
Speaker 1: or harassed. I mean, what do you make I'll talk
37:41
Speaker 1: like that. What is happening in schools? If you look
37:45
Speaker 1: at the data, and by the way, if you're writing
37:47
Speaker 1: a chapter on bullying, I'd love to share data with you.
37:52
Speaker 1: What schools are doing flat is not working. We have
37:56
Speaker 1: data from the Center for Disease Control asking students about
38:00
Speaker 1: being bullied. They really started asking a question in two
38:03
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. There has been no decline what happens
38:07
Speaker 1: when these incidents are reported because they've got this very
38:10
Speaker 1: strict definition of bullying in the statutes, the principle that
38:18
Speaker 1: tends to rationalize. They rationalize in four ways. They say,
38:23
Speaker 1: it was kids being kids, locker room talk, it's not bullying,
38:28
Speaker 1: So there's nothing I can do. Your child is overreacting,
38:33
Speaker 1: and if your child would just stop blank, then this
38:36
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen to your child. And part of the problem
38:41
Speaker 1: is our schools are educators. School leaders are so overwhelmed
38:47
Speaker 1: by the lack of funding and by this myopic focus
38:51
Speaker 1: on test scores, they don't have time to deal with
38:54
Speaker 1: this but we've had this rational school shooting. It's the
38:58
Speaker 1: same such. I mean, the data show that the young
39:02
Speaker 1: people who engaged in school shooting also have been bullied.
39:07
Speaker 1: And what we hold on just a moment, wait a minute,
39:10
Speaker 1: I want to back it up to that issue about
39:13
Speaker 1: the bullies to Steve and Tammy Fuller, Tammy, did you
39:18
Speaker 1: know who the bullies were? Yep, all four names, but
39:23
Speaker 1: the parents didn't know. Why weren't they ever kicked out?
39:26
Speaker 1: That's a good question. You should ask the Lake Local
39:28
Speaker 1: School fat could? They won't tell me? Steve, do you
39:33
Speaker 1: have any idea? I mean they were they ever placed
39:36
Speaker 1: on suspension or kicked out or anything? No? And from
39:41
Speaker 1: what I was told by a few different people that
39:46
Speaker 1: the mother didn't even know, and the mom was not
39:50
Speaker 1: notified at first, and then we found out at Aaron's
39:57
Speaker 1: funeral that the boy and his mom came to Aaron's
40:03
Speaker 1: funeral and he signed Aaron's tasting. Let me ask you this, Steve.
40:08
Speaker 1: You say that at night you still say good night.
40:14
Speaker 1: You know, I still talk to my dad like he's
40:16
Speaker 1: right here with me, and I think it's just because
40:19
Speaker 1: I can't think that he's gone. Do you ever feel
40:25
Speaker 1: like Aaron is trying to give you a message or
40:29
Speaker 1: reach you. Steve, absolutely. Yesterday there were songs that come
40:36
Speaker 1: out in the radio and I just broke down and
40:39
Speaker 1: started crying. My wife asked me what was wrong, and
40:43
Speaker 1: then she heard the song and she knew immediately that
40:48
Speaker 1: I was thinking of Aaron. And it breaks my heart
40:53
Speaker 1: because I also found out that there's a little boy
40:58
Speaker 1: that has autism at at school and he was being
41:02
Speaker 1: picked on and Haron would try to help him out,
41:06
Speaker 1: and they were really close friends, and he was he
41:12
Speaker 1: was being picked on on the bus just a few
41:16
Speaker 1: few weeks ago, and his mom went and talked to
41:23
Speaker 1: the principle and that me at the school, and they
41:30
Speaker 1: sent him home with a pair of headphones so he
41:34
Speaker 1: didn't have to listen to the bullies on the bus.
41:36
Speaker 1: Why is everybody so worried about the bully? It may
41:42
Speaker 1: not be effective. Hey, I have an idea, Site Fuller
41:45
Speaker 1: and Tammy Fuller. Throwing the bully out of school may
41:49
Speaker 1: not be effective and rehabilitating the bully, but I guarantee
41:52
Speaker 1: it'll be effective for saving the victim. Why not just
41:56
Speaker 1: kick the bullies off? I don't get it. I mean,
42:00
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy. What am I missing? Why not kick off
42:04
Speaker 1: the bully or kick out the bully? Why do you
42:07
Speaker 1: put the bully ahead of the other children. There are
42:11
Speaker 1: plenty of alternative schools that can have the bully if
42:15
Speaker 1: they haven't no bully policy. Why isn't it's set up
42:22
Speaker 1: to where the first time the kid gets suspended, the
42:26
Speaker 1: parents get notified. The second time that happens, he gets expelled,
42:33
Speaker 1: or the third time somebody's going to commit suicide and
42:37
Speaker 1: the parents are going to suffer. To Tammy Fuller, Aaron's
42:41
Speaker 1: step mom. You're so close to Aaron. Do you feel
42:46
Speaker 1: that he is trying to give you messages? Is he
42:49
Speaker 1: trying to communicate with you in any way? Every day? Yeah?
42:55
Speaker 1: Little things. I'll hear something fall and I'll say here,
43:01
Speaker 1: I know he's here. I know he's with us. He
43:05
Speaker 1: comes to me in dreams, I know he's there. John Loomley,
43:09
Speaker 1: I don't understand why, why it's still happening. How many
43:13
Speaker 1: children have to commit suicide and endure suffering at this
43:17
Speaker 1: school and other schools and nothing is done. Probably the
43:22
Speaker 1: same administration is still in place, nothing has changed. And
43:28
Speaker 1: it's amazing, Nancy. Kids are amazing, period but what they
43:32
Speaker 1: can find to make fun of everything. With Aaron, it
43:38
Speaker 1: was if he forgot to pack his lunch and didn't
43:41
Speaker 1: have money, telling him that his parents must not love enough,
43:46
Speaker 1: love him enough to feed him. They made fun of
43:48
Speaker 1: the way he dressed. In fact, at Christmas, he didn't
43:52
Speaker 1: ask for a lot, but what he did ask for
43:56
Speaker 1: or clothing shoes from brand names, because he'd be made
44:02
Speaker 1: fun of if they were not. He would trade out
44:07
Speaker 1: a pair of new shoes from Walmart for an old
44:10
Speaker 1: pair of Nikes, so old the shoe, the souls were
44:13
Speaker 1: falling off, but the name brand was better to ward
44:17
Speaker 1: off the taunts. And school districts just don't seem to
44:22
Speaker 1: be able to keep track of all this when I
44:25
Speaker 1: guess there are so many other issues at hand. Well wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa,
44:30
Speaker 1: whoa whoa, Wait a minute, John Linley, you just heard
44:34
Speaker 1: Tammy and Steve say they told the administration they did
44:38
Speaker 1: know about it. It's not a matter of keeping trap
44:40
Speaker 1: because they're overwhelmed. That's their job. Their job is to
44:44
Speaker 1: keep track of it. To Steve and Tammy, to you, Steve,
44:47
Speaker 1: you guys spent so much time with Aaron, and you
44:53
Speaker 1: did everything right So what is your message, Steve, What
45:00
Speaker 1: is your message to parents listening now, parents that are worried,
45:03
Speaker 1: Parents like me, I'm worried. I'm worried. What can you
45:08
Speaker 1: tell me? Well, you said that we spend a lot
45:13
Speaker 1: of time with him, We've done everything right. But no
45:18
Speaker 1: matter how much time you spend with your children or
45:22
Speaker 1: you ask questions and stuff, you can't always do everything right.
45:30
Speaker 1: And you have to teach your kids that, no matter
45:34
Speaker 1: what their choices are, everything's not going to be right,
45:41
Speaker 1: but you do the best you can. My message would be,
45:45
Speaker 1: talk to your kids every day, ask them how school was,
45:50
Speaker 1: sit down at a family dinner every day, and find
45:54
Speaker 1: out what's going on in your kids' life. Because if
45:56
Speaker 1: you don't, and you don't try to protect them some way,
46:01
Speaker 1: then it eats with you. Guys with me. Tammy and
46:04
Speaker 1: Steve Fuller, the parents of Aaron Fuller, a sixth grade
46:08
Speaker 1: boy that thought there was no other way to end
46:12
Speaker 1: his bullying other than to commit suicide. God rest his soul.
46:18
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace's crime story signing off Goodbye Friend,