Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 403 - Highway To Hellsinki

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 403 - Highway To Hellsinki · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: What what what repent of any sage juice?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Tear up the true down a rat from the Junie
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Mo David bar room being mister food is in the
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: pure whennessy, it's rain night, chill the lights, the reconsults
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: has never been.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Rid of the basting you and the boy for your backs.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: And here we go.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Well, no transition. What's up? Everybody?
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Welcome into the show. This is the Lone Guman Podcast,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: episode number four hundred and three. I'm here with Joe
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: as per the usual, and tonight we have a special
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: guest who has not yet been on this iteration of
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: the Lone gum And Podcast, but he's been on before.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: He's a friend of ours from across the pond. He
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: is an author, he is a webmaster. He is a
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: totter of bags. He is mister Bart Camp. Welcome Bart,
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: How are you.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Saving basing everybody? Good afternoon for you guys. Yeah, great
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: to see you back on the show.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Finally, so what have you been up to? I know
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: the Daly Plaza UK just recently wrapped up their summer
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: soiree over there, didn't he We did.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: We had our second event at the Ashton Hill. This
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: is like an estate not far away from Yeah, somewhere
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: roughly between Oxford and Birmingham, and it's just in the
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: middle of nowhere, and the weather was great in the nineties.
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: And then we sit inside in our little room with
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: about thirty five forty people and we had an excellent time.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: We had about i'd say altogether about a dozen to
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: fifteen people speaking and presenting. I presented as well. I
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: had an easy gig this time, only one subject. And yeah,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: it was our second time there. Before that we used
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: to go to Canterbury. But the problem with Canterbury was that, yeah,
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: it's too far in the corner. If you look at
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: it the English geography, the map itself, it's in the
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: bottom right corner and from anyone coming from above London,
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: so say Scotland, it's an absolute nightmare to get to.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: So we went more up and to the left and
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: then so it was a fairer for everybody from the north.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: But location wise it's just perfect. You're in the middle,
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: in out in the field on the state that is
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: just solely dedicated to what you do. In this case,
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: it's our subject which is AFK. So you know, it's
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: absolutely beautiful out there. And yeah, it goes great to
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: day with nothing gus, but that.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. I really want to get out there one
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: day for one of those events across the pond, but
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I first want to sing your praises for a minute,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: if you don't mind. First of all, this is the
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: first time we are talking live, and you know I've
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: been looking forward to it for a long time. I'm
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: sorry I missed you. I think it was in February, Rob,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I was taking a little break in Italy, and by
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: little I mean like six weeks. It happens sometimes, But
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: of course I've respected your work and research for a
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: long time. Your Brooke Curvevan is right here. It's great work,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and you know I want to and personally thank you
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: for the work you do digitizing a lot of Malcolm
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Blunt's archives. You know, I use this online archives frequently,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: have a bookmark in my browser. And if you don't
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: have it bookmarked in your browser, ladies and gentlemen, what
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: are you doing?
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: But not sure if you know what you're not find
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: on any of Bart's scan documents. Joe, what its fucking fingers?
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: That's what.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Son?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Funny funny story really quickly. I don't know if you
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: know this part. I went to the Archives in May
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: with I know some friends of yours, Andrew Eyler, Paul
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Paul Blow. Well yeah that's kidding. I love Andrew, Paul
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Blow and his brother and Mark Damchuk and we stormed
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: the archives, not in like a John six way, but
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: with five scanners. And let's just say they were not
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: pleased with us. They stoned walled us. And that made
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: me think, how did Malcolm do that?
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Malcolm? Over all easier gig, You were allowed to have
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: more boxes, more cards, longer period of time. They have
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: made things more difficult for their individual who visits the archives. Malcolm.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: Malcolm's last time was there, I was twenty eighteen, so
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: it's been a while. It's been eight years since he's been,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: and he's known about the differences now these days compared
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: to what it was like back then, and back then
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: it all. You know, he's been somebody who's been there
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: in nineties. He's seen the overall things happening at that time.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we were stone walled, and you know, I felt
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: like I lost years off my life. And I spent
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: two and a half days there just scanning and per
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: to Rob's joke, some of my scans because the scanner
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: that we ordered through Amazon was connected to the laptop
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: up and sometimes pages were stable together or stuck together,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and you see my thumb prints a bunch of the scans.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: But uh, it was very eye opening, was very interesting,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and yeah, I just don't know how he did it,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and it gave me a lot more respect to what
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: he did and in turn, what you do digitizing them.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: I did the first few years just with my iPhone
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: and I just used my phone and the scanning app
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: and I just started to scan all these documents in
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: at first, and then after somebody gave me, James Kay
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: gave me a fee to scanner, and that was just
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: like such a revelation and like speed and and and
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: and processing and OCR and this object character character recognition
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: applying to it and all that. That was just a massive,
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: massive change. But I've got to tell you now that
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: this is for every listener, anyone who's interested in documentations.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: You'd go to JFK Records dot org. Yeah, that's Eli's
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: a little little toy who's been basically setting up a
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: database or databases and connect them all together. If you
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: search something that you're actually going through almost a dozen
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: collections like the hold Weisberg Archive, you go through Nara,
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: you go through Malcolm blond Archive, if you go to
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: you know, all these all these places that are online
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: that have records online and help you find things. And
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: it's been a very very very good source for me
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: to have a dabble with this year. It was Andrew
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: Eiler actually who brought me. Brought me that to my attention.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: I'm saying that there was this website that helps you
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: search stuff and also it does Mary Ferrol. I find
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: Mary Ferrell personally not very user friendly site to go through.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: It helps, but I'd rather have something that's just as
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: basic as Google and doesn't give me any distractions and
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: just sticks to it, just gives me the documents, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: that's that site is pretty good for that. And especially
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: now that I've been working on this subject, Helsinki that
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: I didn't have much affiliation with. I mean, when I
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: was scanning Malcolm's stuff in there were piles that I
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: kept separate. I just went, you know what, this is
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: something that I could look into at a later date.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: And I never thought I was going to do it
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: because after the prayer Man Book, which came out three
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: years ago, I was absolutely fed up with research and
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: I was absolutely domb with it. I was sick of it.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: And it wasn't so much the research, but it was
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: more the having to read your own book six times
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: and do the editing and all that, Like I don't
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: wish that even on my worst enemy. So I was
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: absolutely sick to death of it. And I spoke to
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: William mats in Law about this as well as I
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: know e'zackly know you're feeling Bodie so and it was like,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: that's so sick of it. And then all the podcasting
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: and interviews. I did that for about four or five months,
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: and then I got a job offer that changed everything.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: I said to myself, if I get this job, that's
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: going to be like ninety eight percent towards the job,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: and I will be too tired. I'll be able to
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: do two percent of my normal workings on this, because
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: this type of stuff is practically a daytime job. And
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: that's what happened. I worked for just over two years
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: solely on that job, and I did the old podcast
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: here and there, but other than that, research wise, I
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: did nothing. And then and feb March I started to
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: dabble with the eye and just started to see like, okay,
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: how does how how does this do? How does this happen?
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: It's and instead of just following commands, I just learned
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: the hard way and learned the things in between slowly,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: and then start switching in between systems because there isn't
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: one system that will do it shop just perfectly. If
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: you're like there, it is perfect and only. And because
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: I had everything on Google Drive, so I used Geminie
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: because it's a Google thing, so I started using that
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: and I just started playing with that and with Malcolm.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: Malcolm and I chat when he's in the country, and
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: so this time, he's been in the country since April
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: up till about August, and I hope to meet him
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: one or two more times. So we sit down, so
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: we all we did was normally is like we just
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: sit down and we talk about his archive and what
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: I've done or what he's done. And he's supposed to
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: be retired semi retired, and you know, he won't finish
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: his pieces on Richard Schneider and he won't finish his
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: piece on Antonio Vessian either. It keeps on going on
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: and on and on, and all of a sudden I
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: spoke to him and I said, well, what else is
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: there to be done? And he said, oh, maybe i'll
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: do something in Helsinki. And I was like, well, that's
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: funny that you mentioned that, but I've I've just been
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: dabbling with that. That's how we just started to talk
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: about it about a chapter, small chapter that hasn't had
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: a lot of light on itself. And before I knew it,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, why don't I have a look
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: at this, because I've done things with artificial intelligence in
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: comparison with the things in Dallas, like I did. I
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: did the second flour launching en calendar all over again.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: I've fed it through the machine all in there and
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: it came something. That's what I've learned. When you are
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: doing AI, throw it all in there, everything everything. In
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: the beginning, it sounds like a complete and up a twit,
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: like a conspiracy theorist or or some idio or some
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: idiot working for the Sex Law sixth Law Museum. It's
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: the like total total garbage talk, and you just go
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: shut up and you just what you do is just
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: start throwing it all in there. And that's what I
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: did the whole over the second flour launchtream encounter. I
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: think I did about one hundred pages of documents throwing
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: in there to see how it would stack up with
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: all the evidence, and it did a really good job
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: because it pointed something out that I hadn't seen yet,
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: and I was like, perfect, that's brilliant. It's given me
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: something that I never thought it was. And what that
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: is is actually it got to a point where either
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: Truly is lying or Shelley is lying. There is no
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: in between, and it's about whether he seen Oswald and
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: Truly said he hadn't to Shelley, where Truly said, yeah,
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: he had seen Oswald, so I was Truly is lying
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: or Shelley is lying. And Shelley had a contemporary statement,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: handwritten statement where he basically said I didn't see him,
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: that Truly had said that he had not seen Oswalt afterwards,
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: and that's why they differ, and that's something you can't reconcile.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: And that was like, isn't that a gift? And there
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: was a beautiful gold neck in the basket right there.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: And then the other thing I did was using photographmetry
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: and to see whether Baker was actually running towards the
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: front steps and he isn't. He's running parallel to the building.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: And the funny thing was that I tried to do
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: it by showing him the video or the machine the video,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: and he says, no, give me still photos instead, So
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: I gave him six different still photos from the same
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: sequence and he went, oh, yeah, it's running power. I
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: was start going to the stairs at all, and I
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: was like, oh really, and then it just started this
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: leveling all these bigs up and it's just pointing in
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: all out.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I know since the last time we talked,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: the sixth Floor uploaded what was the the version of
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: the of the Darnell film. Yeah, that everybody's all hyped about.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: You know, it's supposed to be a little clearer than
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: we've we've ever seen before when it comes to the
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: prayer Man image.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on that? I used out that
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: film to shopping more and I got more the images
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: more shopping, and then that's why the film isn't coming out.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: It's as simple as that. You know, all they're doing
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: the all the oohhah and blah blah, like oh we're
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: going to get the films and blah blah blah. Yeah,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: we are YACKI the yak and the yak. You're not
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: getting the films. The films are not gonna come out,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: simple as that. Why would they give away the evidence
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: that shows that Oswald is standing on those steps over there?
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Why would they volunteer that the entire the entire system,
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: the whole entire deck of car down everything.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: NBC.
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, well they're never going to give that film out,
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: the whole thing with Luna and we're going to do
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: this and we're going to do that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, give me a right, all right, Well, let's let's
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: get to Helsinki. So just to set everything up, this
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: is when Oswald has been given an early discharge out
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: of the Marine Corps in nineteen fifty nine.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: I've got to tell you. I've got to tell you something.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: I've been really strict when I say Helsinki, I do Helsinki.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: I don't talk about landing in Southampton and going to
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: London Airport and all that. I don't do that. The
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: only thing that in relation, like people say, oh, he
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: traveled from the States to France, from France to England
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: and this that, and he had this that. Yeah, I
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: said to myself, I want to talk about Helsinki. I'm
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: only talking about Helsinki. I'm not talking about what happened
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: to offa the border crossing. I don't talk about before
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: the border across here, because I just thought this will
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: be a quick one. That's so I thought this will
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: be a quick one. Just do that five days.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: How we get to Helsinki. So Oswald comes back for
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: a couple of days because his mother supposedly got hit
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: in the face with a piece of cardboard or something,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: and then he hops on the SS Marion Likes Allegedly.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: This is all allegedly, but the official stories. He hops
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: on a shipping boat and makes his way eventually to Southampton, England,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: and from there, whether it's be through France or on
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: a train or whatever, parachutes into Helsinki. This is the
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: last stop before Oswald actually enters into Russia. So what
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: is it bart about hell Sinki that we should be
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: paying attention to. I mean, I know, everybody's always sad
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: over the years, and he was kind of odd that
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: he got this Russian tourist visa really quick once he
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: got to Helsinki, right, and there's some fuck are you
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: going on with the hotels and this and that but
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: I'm sure we'll get into that. But go ahead, bart,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: let us know, all right, Oswald is stepping off the
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: train in Helsinki.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Well, he gets off the plane. Actually a lot of
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: people are doubting things, but the evidence is pretty clear
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: that Oswald took the plane from London to a plane
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: from London on the train, on the plane it was
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: one plane. The left there at twenty three thirty three
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: in the evening. And there's a lot of who about
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: how he got there in the first place, and also
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: how quickly he got at the hotel. This is all
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: kicked tough by the Agency and the State Department while
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: it is being investigated for the Warrant Commission. Jaylee Rankin
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: is actually inquiring about this, and the Agency is going
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: through the documentation trying to find out how Oswald could
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: have gotten there, because there's talk also that he might
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: have been gone to Stockholm. So the beauty of the
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: thing of Helsinki is that I've now looked into this
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: over three months, and I can say certain things are
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: there that I can say, you know, that's pretty evident.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: But Oswald himself is pretty much an enigma. If I look,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: if you look overall, if you look at Oswald's period
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: that he was in Russia where he kept a diary
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: where he took pictures of him and and it's friends
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: and family, and there's all that and the other. There's
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: nothing about that. In Helsinki. We know about Oswald that
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: he landed at that airport. He got his stamps in
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: his passport at Getty, so that's the photo photo place
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: where you can look for pictures. There's a very good
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: Oswald passport scan. It's very clear. It's much better than
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: that's at u n T or at History Matters because
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: these are black and white photo copies. This one is
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: a proper flat bat scan of the actual passport page.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry part what airport did he land.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: In and what country?
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: In Malmi Airport in in Finland, in Helsinki, Finland, here's
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: a departure stamp. There's a departure stamp for the London airport,
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: and there's an arrival stamp for Finland as well. If
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: you go to Getty and you just type it in
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: Oswald passport or in Google Oswald Passport, you'll see that page.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: It's crystal clear. It's absolutely beautiful. Wow, thank you, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: the beauty of that is just that's that clears for
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: me already one thing because Oswald's passport has a finished
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: stamp in there and there's not a Swedish stamp to
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: be seen anywhere. Because at the same time, just after
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: the assassination, there is a news from Swedish newspapers that
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Oswald went from Helsinki to Stockholm to get his visa
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: for Russia and basically went from Helsinki to Stockholm and
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: then back to Helsinki and then got on the train
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: from Helsinki to go towards Russia. But that's not true
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: and why that's basically been concocted and released, I have
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: absolutely no idea. But the beauty of this story is
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: actually the spy element behind it because we don't get
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: we don't get to know much about Oswald being in
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: Helsinki over that five day period. We know that he
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: stays in the Tawny hotel for two days and that
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: he then moves to the klaus koudi Ki hotel after that,
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: which he is there for about two and a half
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: three days. And what a lot of people are speculating
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: about it's like, why did he leave so quick? Well,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: first of all, everybody was that was speculating about this said, oh,
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: he's only been there for one day in the Tawny
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Hotel and the tourney at that time, the tor Ni
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Hotel was the number one hotel at that point. And
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: then they said, and then he went to the Klaus
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: Clerky Hotel. The Klaus Clerky Hotel is about two blocks
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: away from the Tawney Hotel. And Oswald left ere are
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: after two days, and then people started to speculate that
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: let's to shake off any any people that've been following him.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: And I'm thinking that argument makes no sense a for
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: the fact that he's been there for two days already.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: And secondly is that the other hotel is I'm not
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: getting four hundred yards away from the other one as
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: two blocks walk just to a way. So if it
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: were to shake lose your people that you think have
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: been following you, that's about the dumbest exercise I've ever seen.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: So the thing what we can tell you about those
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: hotels were there were hip you know, there were people
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: there like you know, the in crowds, ambassador ambassador, embassy
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: people were there and from all types uh and rich people, stylish,
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: trendy people. They were there. It was the place, yeah,
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: the elites. It was the place for the establishment, the
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: local establishment to go to. And Oswald was in there,
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: right in the middle of it for two days in
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: that hotel and then the other hotel of the class
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: clerky hotel for three days is the same thing. So
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: that that's that's a peculiar thing for someone who's known
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: to be an incredibly frugal person. Oswald wasn't somebody who
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: splashed money out wherever he went. I think only when
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: he wanted to buy that washing machine from Marina that
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: was basically him just splashing money out, you know. But
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: other than that, it was somebody who was really it's
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: like what we say over heres, keep the cash and
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: the dash type of person. So and that's that's how
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: that's weird for Oswald to be in the top the
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: two best hotels of that of that city at that point.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: To be there, you know, he didn't say in some
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Y M C A or something else, you know, And
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: I believe.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: He was what I don't think he even turned twenty
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: at that point.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: It was turning twenty on the eighteenth, if I'm not mistake.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he left on the fifteenth. He got there on
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: the tenth of October, and he left on the fifteenth
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: of October. Overall, on Oswald, there's very little to know,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: like what's happening. I mean, we find out that he's
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: traveling with somebody else on the train towards the Russian border,
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: guy by the name William Trousdal, who's a cultural anthropologist
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: who worked for the Smithsonian. And you know what, the
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: second I heard this, and I know this is really bad,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: but I'm going you know, I've watched too many Cold
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: War spook films because a cultural anthropologist is like the
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: perfect cover for somebody to travel, crossing borders and seeing
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: things and relaying seeing what you have seen and so forth.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: I don't want to sound like Johnny the conspiracy theories there,
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: but I thought this, it's just a perfect cover as
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: a companion to go down there.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: So it sounds like the Albert Osbourne of the Mexico
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: City Trip.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: Oh there you go right there on the money, Thank
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: you very much typically that. So, I mean, I'm saying
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: like it sounds like it. I don't know if it
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: is like it, but yeah, I it was just like, Oh,
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: isn't it just what a coincidence that he's got an
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: American fellow traveler traveling with him, you know, and also
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: somebody who really vague about it all.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: If somebody had been watching Oswald, you know, at this
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: point and trying to see what he's doing here, do
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: you think that he had any intention at all eventually
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: going to this Albert Schweizer college in Switzerland or was
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: the Helsinki maneuver a very deliberate one to get into Russia.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Option too? I think the the Schwidzer thing albut Schwidser
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: thing was just an excuse for him to travel, because
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: he even used it while traveling towards Russia when he
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: was talking to William Trausse, he said he was going
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: to go to the Schwizer college, but first through Russia
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: for five days or a week, that he was going
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: to do that first. That was his thing.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: So how do you think that that this that this guy,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: given his background and what he just got. He just
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: got out of the Marines, He's.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: Got about seven hundred bucks when he arrives in England,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: which is about seven thousand dollars in today's money. When
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: he's in Russia, he's got one hundred dollars left. So
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: he blew six on thered bucks, okay, but there was
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: also talk that there were a thousand finished marks ready
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: for him because a there's a Danish journal during list
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: who's been investigating it and I haven't found out about
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: it yet, but who said that he found out that
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: in Helsinki there's a thousand marks finished marks ready for Oswalt,
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: so he could buy in tourist vouchers there. And then
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: how Oswald got in so quick is also an interesting factor.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Everybody thinks it's going to take much much longer. But
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: the the console over there by the name of Gregory Gallup.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: He.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: The KGB console.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Well they call him that. Yeah, they call him that.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: They're another one hundred percent sure, but they suspect him
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: of being KGB and they Gollub is boasting that he
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: can get visas within one or two days if he
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: likes the person who can get turned it around in
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: twenty four to forty eight hours. He's boasting and letting
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: people know.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I think it was if you book via a local
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: tourist agency, you think, right.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Well, that's one thing, the in tourist vouches, that's one thing.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: But on the other hand, also, and this is where
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: the interesting bit comes for to refer to in the
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: beginning and where the spy stuff is just coming in.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: And that's the fact that the Central Intelligence Agency and
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: mister Gregory Gallup are having almost monthly lunch meetings in
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: the hippos places Bleaton Costile, right, Yes, that's him, that's
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: his code name, and Costile is having meetings with Gregory
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Gallup almost every month where they discuss anything the most
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: personal bits about goll Up leaving his wife back in
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Moscow but he needs to find him a finished honey
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: for him, and et cetera. And they just write reports.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: And this is the beauty of this thing, of this
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: whole Helsinki thing, and that's that there are operational reports,
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: not all of them, but some of them have been released.
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: And I said to Malcolm back then already, like yo, man,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: operational reports. Have you ever dealt with that? And he
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: goes no, And I'm going there. I have a dozen
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: of them where basically where they write down in really
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: good detail, because that's what they do. They have these
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: meetings and then come back wherever they are and sit
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: down and write everything down what they discussed. You know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: that's relaying it straight back into paper, and that's is
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: that special. Yeah, because it's from the agency, that's quite special.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: And they write about their meetings with Golub and what
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Gollub has said during these luncheons, and they meet in
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: the most beautiful places, you know, and you just start
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: and I start looking at black and white photographs of
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: these places and the you know, Adlon restaurant and the
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: Klauds Courki Hotel, answer forth. These are absolutely stunning places
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: in the fifties, and the glamor element of it all
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: is just absolutely stunning. So that's what I did as well.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: I started to create images like the one they did
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: behind me, based on all the information, so when when
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: the work's going to come out, it will have images
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: for practically every setting or person in this story.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: So there's question bart go on, then okay, that's what
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: I do best, folks. Why Finland?
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Okay? I mean the look at the map. Look at
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: the map. Look how easy it is get on the
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: train to get the Moscow.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Right Google it. Asking were any other European countries doing
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: visas to Russia at the time or just certain ones?
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: Vienna? Vienna was another thing that was another place. So
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: you can go and Berlin. Have you forgotten about Bill
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: Harvey's Little tunnel and all that. So all these places
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: that are close to the Iron Curtain, Yeah, we're all special.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: People can use them to get into Russia for a visa.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what, it was relatively easy to get
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: a Russia visa to go into Russia for a week,
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: to get on the train, go to Moscow, look around
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: Da Da and just travel back to Finland. Again, it
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: was it was relatively easy. The whole thing is what
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: everybody is just really doubles down on, is is the
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: fact that oh, he got this, he got this, He's
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: got visa in forty eight outs. Now that's strange, and
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: technically speaking, that is strange if you understand that. Well,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: is that visa application going all the way to Moscow?
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Does it have to be approved? Well apparently it doesn't
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: have to be anymore. It used to be, but now
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: it doesn't. So that takes out that whole legwork of
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: sending that visa application all the way to Russia and
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: wait for it to come back. Yeah. And then.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Well maybe Oswald paid a little extra, you know, since
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: he said he went through a lot of money, right, Uh,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: maybe he paid a little extra for expeditious visa, you know, like, hey,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: here's an extra hundred buddy.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Here. No, no, I don't think so it's not that
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: type of Pabeles just throwing dollar bills out that he's
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: not that kind of guy. But you know what, what
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: is the most surprising thing I found was that when
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: you look at the documentation is that the day before
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: Usbald the wives, they have this which is called an
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: O f h A report, And these reports are based
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: on the meetings that the luncheons that they've had and
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: they discuss things, and that the week before Oswalt is
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: there arriving, they already sent two Americans, two American tourists
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: to the consulate to get their visas really quickly. So
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: there's something really into play already the week before Oswald
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: jumps in and goes over there.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I think you pointed this out before.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: One of the really interesting things, and like the little
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: known hints is who these documents were sent to, and
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: it was c is SIG Counterintelligence counter Intelligence Special Investigations Group.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Right, yes, and Soviet Russia Division as well. It's that's
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: a different chapter. If you go into that bit, you
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: go into bits like Angleton and when Oswald actually was
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: part of a list and actually put on on the list,
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: and that took almost another year before he was actually
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: put on something. I don't think anyone was seeing anything
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: about Oswald until he made that attempt to defect, right,
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: his two of one fire wasn't even open yet, correct.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. And yeah, and to think that like
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: a nineteen year old kid could and listen, you can't.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: We can't pull up Gemini right and ask what's the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: best way to get into Russia. Oswal couldn't do that.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: We could do that.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Oswa could not do that. So how the hell does
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: he figure that out?
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's the question. Yeah, because it's just all
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: happening just before he waltz in and gets this visa.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: How the hell did he hear about Albert Schweizer College.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's another thing. But the thing is, like,
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: if you really just stay focused on the whole Helsinki thing,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: you have to understand that we have all these reports
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: from nineteen fifty nine explaining every month what Gollop the
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: council is talking about and where they can basically where
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: they know that to get a tourist visa through him.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: He'll sort it out, because Costile himself went in there
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: as well in Russia and had it sorted out really quick.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: Reallysia went to Russia. Yeah. And then also there are
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: two other characters called Ae Pawnee number three and Ae
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: Pawnee number five. These are students who talk to Gollob
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: and who are taken out of the equation at some
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: point because it's too risky because they might get turned
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: by him. And this is really this is the whole
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: interesting part, the whole the ofha reports and all the
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: interactions with Golub and between goull Up and Costile, and
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: then also Costile and Ae Pawnee three and five. That
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: is a really interesting story because it's all happening with
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: Oswald somewhere in the middle, who just happens to make
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: use of something that is already in play. Yeah. So
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: what I thought was just going to be an Oswald
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: thing all of a sudden turns into a hell sinky
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: thing and it's become a very fascinating thing for me.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: Can I just have one minute break? Please? I'm really
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: sorry about.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: This, No problem, no problem, We'll go over some comments.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's see what the people have to say. If
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: you have any questions for Bark, get him in the
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: chat now.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, and thank you to the Double B for his
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: twenty dollars super chat earlier. We appreciate that he said
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I'll bring the beers run out of beers and that's
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: an inside jogleurs. But uh, how did Lho get info
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: CIA AVI?
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's obvious he was being maneuvered by
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: some some won er thing, right. Obviously the CIA is
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: the likely conclusion to that, and especially as Bart was
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: talking about with the timing of these documents. And I
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: guess I was a little wrong when I thought the
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: console was KGB. He might have been suspected of being KGB.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe he was more of a delegate. But the guy
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Castile who was definitely CIA was procuring Finnish women for
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: him to try to get his cooperation and.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Some pan some punani as we call it.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Well, not much changes when you think about Epstein, Right,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: it's the oldest.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Game in the book, Yes, the old honeypot.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, So let me see if there's anymore that's really interesting.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: On part two, Robert, we have to find that the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: passport stamp of the alleged flight from England to Finland.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: I tried googling it, but it wouldn't give me the
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: giddy image of anything. It was just the old portal
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: of the Texas history crap.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: So maybe I better luck than eye. I don't know.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I'm sure Barb will send it to us.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: It would be nice to put it up like now,
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: or as we're talking about.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: You could ask him when he gets back.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I would be surprised too, you. You would think he
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: would be take the most frugal route. And of course
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: you have the allegations that he uh he or the
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: official story says he what took a boat to l'havre.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: L A b v e.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that wrong, but forget as usual France. Yes
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: to France.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: You know what l'havre means in French.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: The harbor. Yeah, it is a big harbor, a big
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: like shipping portal.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, sorry about that. I'm sorry, bar you just
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: missed my French lesson. I was trying to tell you.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: And I share things on distinct Yes you can, oh yeah,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: che chef's green. Okay, hold one second, I will show
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: you the picture of the posts tam the harbor hold
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: on a ship its green.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Oh uh, you let me know when you've got it
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: up on your end, and then I can put it
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: up on the screen here for you, okay, and then
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: we can going.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, there we are tenth of October. Hell Sinky on
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: the right is the embarked one for the immigration from
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: the immigration of your London airport. That other one does
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: hell sinky. The one on the left, the pink one. Yeah, yeah, singing.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: It kind of looks like a beat, but obviously it's.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: That is pretty damn clear.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, wow wow.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And then his visa part question real quick, is this
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: in War Commission exhibits at all?
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: Not this quality?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Not this quality.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: This quality comes from Getty. That's where you have to
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: look at it.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: But a rough image of this is in buried in
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the War Commission.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: There is a if you go to History Matters, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: there's also a copy at u n T, And the
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: U n T copy is really bad quality. That's when
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: you can that's why only with this particular scan, the
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Getty scan, you can actually see what's what's actually stammed
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: in that passport that once before that are of inferior quality.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: Now These are flat bat scans of the actual passport works.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: Everything else are photo copies.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: H this is blowing my mind.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: Man, that's good quality. And there's let me just have
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: a look if there's anything else that can share that's important.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: The viny cola stamp and Aschwaltz let me just call
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: that up.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Uh you ever see his uh Oswalt's Albert Schweizer college
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: application that he filled out and no, I got this
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: for you. Hang on, well you look for that, I'll
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: look for this.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: Okay, hold on.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: It's really good, Charlotte. It's pretty crazy, but yeah, I
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: think you'll get a kick out of it.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Live research on the air.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: This is a let stamp on the left here and
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: then underneath is it's visa and on the v and
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: on the right his arrival in Russia Russia crossing. That's awesot.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: That's from U N T. I didn't see that at
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: the Gatti. So that's the way how you see the
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: difference in quality. Yes, this is basic. Yeah, huh.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: That's a Russian trance. Is that a Russian passport?
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: No, that's his possible, but it's on top of it
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: the visas are stuck in. There is it in Russian. Oh,
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: they don't do it in English.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: If you got his passport here, it should be in English.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Right, No, if you get it stamped and get it
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: to get the visa, it gets in Russian. Hold on minute,
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: put that picture back up. Bart.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: All the fucking writing on there was in Russian.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, question, yeah, October fifteenth. No, mm hmm, like.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Like even the printing in the passport is in Russian.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, in an American passport. It's just it's it's stuck
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: in there. Hmm. I don't know about this. Okay, you're
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: the conspiracy professor, all right. So and other than that,
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: let me just I'll show you something else. So okay,
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: now this is also was a bit of a like
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: questionable thing is soon as I find it. Oh yeah,
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: here are his cards, so I'll just go slowly through this.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: Let me just hit share. So back then you had
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: to have a registration card. You know, these days it's
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: all like internet and pre register and scan your passport
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: in this, that and the other. Back in those days,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: you went over there and the hotel can't scier door
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: guy would fill it in and fill the dates. Now,
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: what's funny about this is that because Oswald's playing land
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: A twenty five to twelve, and here he's in this.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: He's in this in this hotel twenty five minutes later
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: because it sits twenty four hundred, and also it is
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: on the tenth, and he arrived on the tenth. If
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: he waltz in there at midnight, which would be nothing
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: short of a miracle to get there twenty five minutes later,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: that would not be the tenth, it would be the eleventh.
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: So that's what people start questioning. But do you know
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: what the booking system procedure is over there in a
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: hotel in Finland in the late fifties. I don't, because
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: he basically he had to basically put it, well, the
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: booking was made for the tenth. He actually arrives on
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: the eleventh, but I've got to make it look like
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: he arrived on the tenth, because otherwise that will mess
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: the booking system up. Something simplex day too. Yeah, exactly,
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: it could be as simple as that. So that's why
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: that was helped. Let me scroll down and then you
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: have here. Also if you look at the second one,
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: you've got Lee Harvey without the E in there. Oswalt. Yeah,
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: and these are people there's also again a student as
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: he says he's a student and from Fort Worth for
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: his registration car. Back then, the way it worked is
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: that like the Nordic Union had come together and just
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: put together a sort of a free European Union thing
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: back in those days. So if you were landing somewhere
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: inside those four countries Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Finland, you were
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: basically noted as such like the person that were landed
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: over there. But you could switch between countries. You could
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: travel between Finland and Sweden or Finland and Denmark if
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: you wanted to without having to pull out your passport
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: because you were already registered as a RIV in that
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: particular country already, be that Denmark or be that Finland
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: as such. Now, so there's this these bits where we
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: just know that the spelling that it could be like
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: a tired hotel clerk or just somebody just not paying
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: attention to just writing it down. And this is also
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: the way you just start to see today.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I stop you.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Thing, Joe, I think we're gonna say the same thing.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: I think go back up a little bit.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: To that original image when you first showed us. There,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: you go that one, this one, no, no, that one
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: with spelled Harvey with a Y.
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, Now at the on the top image that looks
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: to me like Lee Harvey Oswald's printing, okay is it?
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: I think I think he printed this out at least
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: his name on this one, and possibly the date, the
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: American student and all that. I don't know what ra need,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: what the exclamation means, but maybe thanks Jesus, I'm finally here.
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: M h and Rob, Just to give Bart some some context,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: we did a whole episode on on Lee Harvey's Oswalt's signature.
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: And if a signature evaluators Bart allegedly and if you
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: look at the O and Oswalt and you look at
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: the Lee and the L, that is very consistent with
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: all the signatures we have analyzed.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: Am I wrong? World?
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Well, the last name is not.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: But the oh I'm talking about that that loops in
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: mm hmm.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: You mean the first O here or that that oh
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: that oh, that that that Oswald's spelling to me does
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: not look like Oswald's writing, at least to my professional eyeball.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: So, and that's probably because the clock has done it exactly.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that he he printed all this ship
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: on there, right. Yeah, that to me that Lee, the
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: the O and the Oswald. That looks to me and
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Harvey spelled correctly. That looks like Oswald's printing to me, yes,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: but not not this cursive ship at the bottom.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: No interesting.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: Oh and you can speculate that about that till the
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: cows come home. Gentlemen, I know you know that that
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: you can take that ship to the bank, bark.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you. We are professional analysts of signatures, every
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: one of them in this case.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: By now. So then we've got another one here. This
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: is a proper one. This isn't is for the authorities.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: This is I mean, we have an Oswald's signature on
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: the bottom one.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah huh. And here we got another Oswalt's signature. What
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: do you think about this, Joe, Yeah, Joe, you're the expert.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, I think these signatures.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: The top one doesn't look right to me, but the
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: bottom one does.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They looked Yeah,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I know, Well, this is what we do.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: The lead show.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: The Lee Harvey definitely looks the same like when he
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: writes in his non cursive writing.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, printing style looks the same, but that cursive when
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: the top of lead, you know, his signature does not
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: look great unless he's adapting to the amount of space
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: that he has there.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe right, Notice that he he says he's a student.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: Right, of course he's of course he's a student. Right,
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: question that he's a student.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: And this is October tenth, right, So this is crazy.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: Why did you just say I'm a traveler anthropologist, I'm
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: a fingerpri you that so there you go, It's all there, right,
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: what else have we got? Let me just quickly look, yeah,
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: oh there's another one. So this is on the fifteenth.
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: This is at the Klaus Quirky Hotel. His registration and
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: his room number six oh seven.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: Do you think Oswald knew to tip all these motherfuckers
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: at the hotels that were helping him alone?
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: And this If you look here, you see the turk
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: course mark here. Yes, and there's a turk course mark here. Wow,
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: this is the Tawny Hotel.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: This is where he first right, this is.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: Just a difference. Oh, the airport is just to the
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: west of this. But I just did a close up
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: and went it's this close. Well, once people start to
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: speculate and say, wow that you know what, he left
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: the tourney because he wanted to shake off anyone that
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: basically might have clung onto him. And I'm going, first
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: of all, he's been there for two days, not one day.
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: And secondly, the other hotel is less than four hundred
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: yards away, three hundred and fifty meters exactly one thousand feet.
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: It's a joke, it's not very close. And also, but
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: if if the tourney wasn't the number one hotel, the
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: party at the class Quirky was, there were the number
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: two hotels. So basically where things were happening.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: Aka more whores.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: At the k yes, or he just wanted to save
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: a few bucks.
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: In the in the next what it's possible that he did.
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: It's possible that he tried to do that. So I
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: talk about the steam barge. You call the steam barge
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: that matter. Let me just talk about that for a bit,
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: real quick, bart before we get into there.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: I want you to get all up on your screen
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: here and take a close look at this shit real quick.
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: Right, So this is the steambarger thing. Steamager comes out
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: during the HCA and says, I sat on a military
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: flight on a Matt's flight going to Germany next to
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: a guy who was wearing a name tackled Lee Oswald
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: and Scott Reid did an article about this. It's on
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: Kennedy's and King and it's an interesting article. I don't
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: believe it because the real Oswald had his stamps in
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: his passport. There's nothing about this in anywhere in Oswald's passport.
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: On top of that, Oswald's wearing this uniform after he
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: has left the Marines. How do you do that? And
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: by the way, how do you get on a military
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: flight if you have to show your ID. I know
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: out of my own personal experience that if you are
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: in the military, you get out of the military, the
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: first thing you do is hand over your passport or
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: your i D. I think gets avoided or they get
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: stamped right there. And then so for him to get
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: where is uniform and then get on there on that
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: plane with a with a with a voided ID, that's
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: really I mean.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: It makes him I want to hitch a ride because
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: he's a tight wide but it doesn't it doesn't make
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: sense that he would actually be able to do.
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: It that and also he's got if you believe in
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: the stamps in his passport are real, the Vini Kala
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: stamp which is done on the fifteenth, which is to
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: finish border crossing to Russia, and the October tenth stamp.
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: Then if you if you believe in that those stamps
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: are real, the steam Barger story is more difficult to believe.
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: On top of that, what's funny about the steam Barger
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: the thing is just the fact that if you there's
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: no documentation about any of it, you know, all of
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: a sudden, this this just this just shows up from
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: the agency, an interviewer. But somebody who says, hey, I
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: saw Oswalt, you.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: Know, added to the pile of people who said they
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: saw Lee Harvey Oswald's somewhere you shouldn't have been.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know that she's she isn't the first one,
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: and she's definitely not the last one, and the whole
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: Harriet and Lilian's story keeps keeps on giving, But I
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: just don't buy it. Most of the time. It's just like, yeah,
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: you know, one person, you know, I believe in a legend.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: I believe in the fact that people have said, like, oh, yeah,
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: my name is Oswalt. I just pretended to be I
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: have No, I have no problem not believing that there
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: are steambar.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Is with high and tight crew cuts back in the day.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, clean shaven. You know that looked like Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: I mean yeah, yeah, they got two haircuts those days.
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: So two men's haircut. That was it. He said. The
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: departure cause for steam Barges. I couldn't find Oswaltz. You know, yeah,
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: the steam Barger's departure CAUs right there. You know. Yeah,
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know why she is h why this is happening,
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: and why this is being set and all that, but
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: you know, I make mention of it, but I'm just
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: saying I'm not buying it. No, not either. Yeah, well
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: and uh yeah no. Overall it's just gonna be. Uh,
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: it's an interesting story. There's more to it, like I said,
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: the whole spy element to it. That's what I'm working
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: on now. And yeah, I'm just working on the visuals.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: And just to add some more work to you bart
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: like I always like to do. Since you're looking ahead
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: the trip into Russia, uh, maybe next you could look
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: at the trip out of Russia.
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: Now, No, I've already got I've already got my next thing.
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: My next thing already lyned up corroborate me, and I
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: am doing No Orlean snitch time. So New Orleans is happening,
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: and I'm gonna go into orestus Penya and Warren de Bruce.
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: That's another That's another thing where you just go, oh,
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: we couldn't use a little bit more of that, And
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: that's what I'm doing.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Rob will definitely respect that. Let me ask you one question, Bart,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: who was William Gibson because I heard you mentioned him
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: before in relation to this Helsinki thing.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know William hearing ship Joe? You're hearing ship Joe.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: It was on your episode with with Al, but maybe
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I misheard. How about you mentioned a couple pseudonyms Ae, Yeah,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: who is Ae Ocean three?
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: No? You want AE Pawny three and AE Pawny five.
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: He's a young he's a young students. Let me just
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: show you the pick pictures of these young students. To
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: this day, we don't have their identity of yet. I
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: don't know is it worthwhile to do so? Uh? Was
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: this in Finland or Russia? Finland? Okay? So what this
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: is is like like this image, this is a pony three? Yeah,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: real picture and not at all, No, no, not at all,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: not at all A three and she was a red
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: skin full bridge guy. And this is a pony five
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: And Pony five was deeper in this than three and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: five knew each other. There was both students, full bright students,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: and five was pulled out in in in in having
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: further contact with with Gollop. And that's Peter thought that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: was playing tricks on her. Given her if all that
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: made her feel.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Like, right, did do you know anything about the Finnish
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: girl that was allegedly procured to him gulubuh by allegedly
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: uh costile some type of asset.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there is no there's talk of them that they
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: say this is a perfect opportunity to do this, but
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: there's no report saying like, oh yeah, we got him
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: the honey and we got him, We've got him compromises such.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: You know what, when you read the reports, you see
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: that they're dancing on thin ice together and they're just
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: waiting till one or the other is actually given away
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: a tell or a move, or given away something extraordinary
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: that would compromise or jeopardize something. And that's what they
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: lean on and try to find out and there are
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: little nuggets in there, but you know, like, oh, they
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: mentioned this, but you don't get to read what it
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: actually means. But you know that it's significant enough for
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: them to mention it in the in those reports. And
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: that's that by itself, the whole spy element of it,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: and the fact that they are meeting in very nice places. Yeah,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: And then you think, oh, yeah, nineteen fifty nine. And
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: then you start looking at these photographs of what these
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: what these places all look like, the Towny Hotel, the
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: Class Quirky Hotel, and the restaurants, the Adlon restaurants and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: the Class Kuwirky restaurant. And you see, though, grandios, these
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: places were glamorous. And you go where everybody dressed up,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: you know, suit and tie everything, and you just go, yeah,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: everybody is just you know, not walking around in sweatpants
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: and jock bottoms and all that anymore. Just press up,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: you lazy bustards. And and so I thought, oh, this
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: will be great for visuals, and I did, and I
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: got some really cool visuals out of it, and started
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: just toying with that and that. Then I showed it
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: to a few other people and they said, you should
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: do a photo story with the with the whole story
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: that you're writing about. So that's what's going to happen
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: right now. I've got a bob between i'd say forty
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: to fifty images to uh to have something already to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: put the story together.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: Or to do Believe me, I know, I know the
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: struggle to get everything right.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: And.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: Every image takes anything between three and ten trives. It
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: just depends, you know. But it's some empty sport.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: I got you his Albert Schweitzer College application. Take a
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: look at this, Yeah, yeah, I herewith apply to attend
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: the study course from April twelve, nineteen sixty the June
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: twenty seventh, nineteen sixty. And you see here he's printed
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: his name oz Wald and then Lee Harvey.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: Right, can I stop you? So this is way before
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I know you love when I do this. This is
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: before his discharge.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: Correct? Well, the dates was March.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the dates down here in the bottom March nineteen
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: fifty nine. So yes, this is before Lee Harvey Oswald's
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: epic discharge.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, and also he says he wants to go back
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: one year later. He wants to join the Schweitzer College.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: But the thing is he lands in Selsinki in October. Right,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: that's six months to advance.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's really simple. It's bollocks, That's what I make
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: of it. So I don't have to investigate any further.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: It's bollocks. Right, we'll drop done, all right, perfect, then
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: holy onto the next sixteen So but you know, but
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: I've just thought, like Oswald, that whole thing with the
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: Albert Sweitzer, I knew it was a lie, and now
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: he was bringing it up. I find the fact that
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: there's very little on Oswald in Helsinki himself. He wrote
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: about it in his diary, maybe one or two sentences
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: in his Soviet diary that he starts writing when he
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: has crossed the border, and no pictures of anything. The
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: fact that he stays in two expensive hotels for five days.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: I can't explain that. The fact that he comes in
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: straight after two other tourists have gotten really quickly their
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: visas within two days, you know, So he gets there,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: what on a Friday on the tenth, walks in there
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: on a Monday, you know, he hangs out there for
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: the weekend first of all and chilling, and then just
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: goes there on a Monday to get this visa so
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: he can pick that up on the Wednesday and on
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: Thursday for us. Yeah. So yes, sorry, one thing I've
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: got to mention, interrupt please. So we got all this
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: stuff from fifty nine, all these old FAK reports. Now
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: there wasn't a centralized computer and all that, there was
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: no Internet, but there were carbon copies and what was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: happening in Helstinki. People from Soviet and Russia and people
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: from like Angleton counterintelligence and all that. I knew what
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: was going on as simple as that. They knew what
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: was going on. They knew that in fifty nine it
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: was a piece of pitch to get a visa within
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: forty eight dollars going through US. They knew that. Then
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: we're talking to four but the Warrant Commission is doing
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: their investigation. That's when the CIA comes in again and
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: how can it be? And then the State Department have
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: Abram Chase and the people working for Angleton, Raymond Rocca
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: and Lee Wigran. They're going to this whole spiel of
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: going like, hey, oh how long does it take? How
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: long does it take to get here? How long does
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: it take to get there? Blah blah blah, blah, and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: you're thinking, hold on a minute. Four and a half
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: years ago, you had all this in operational reports right
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: on your front desk telling you what's what so the spiel.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: But then they say, at some point, and especially at
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: the age of c A, because that's when it all
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: cops starts to come out, is the fact that they
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: don't want to give up their play with Gollup. They're
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: monthly luncheons and all that while Gollup is there, while
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: they sit down and having lovely meetings. Yeah, the first
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: time they see a pace, then the Russians pay. They
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: all take turns. It's all kushti, everybody having lovely places.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: Other people get invited to the table as well, important people.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: It's really people finish intel people, as war and they
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: all have nice little lunches. You know what. The thing
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: you only think about that's happening in Hollywood films is
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: actually happening right in front of everybody right there. And
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: they say, we don't want to give that up, like
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: that information, We don't want to hand that to anyone,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: We don't want to hand that to the Warrant Commission.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: But only during the AGCA. It slowly comes out and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: it comes out with a handwritten report by one of
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: the HCA investigators. It starts writing, all these old FHA reports,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: these OLFHA reports haven't been released since twenty two, that's
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: when they were released. Only in the last four years
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: have they come out, and not all of them have
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: come out. We now under that most of it, yes,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: and some of these reports haven't come out all over,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: but we know that they exist because from the numbers
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: that they have been talking about and sports et cetera,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: et cetera. We know there's X amount of reports, but
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: there are about two or three that are missing. They
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: haven't released yet. But that makes it all really really
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: interesting because what's being said and the players involved in
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: this whole thing. And that's when I said to myself,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: you know what. It was an article for dilely Plaza
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: UK and it probably will be, but it's going to
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: become a book because of the information that I've got
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: on top of it. Because the Oswald story itself is
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: a very interesting fifty page story, but if I do
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: the whole thing around it, with the images, then I've
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: got one hundred and fifty to two on the page book,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: nice thin book about a really interesting element of the
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: Cold War in nineteen fifty nine between Russia, America and Finland,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: right in the middle of it. And I thought, yeah,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: that's what I'm going to work on. So that's for
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: me for the next few months, colored and working on that,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: and also so on the visuals and just make it
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: more and more and more.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: So when you're ready to do part two with the
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: book trip Back, you just holler me and Joe Man
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: we can help you out, telling you, uh, yeah, this.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Whole thing is is absolutely nuts, the whole sticky thing.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: I had a question.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: I just forgot it, but.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we can put James Herbert Martin and his family
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: on the return trip on the on the madsdam.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: Can you do? How do you do that?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: They're on the manifest manifest and there's pictures of them
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: on the fucking deck of the boat.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: On the manifest. I thought nobody could get that damn manifest.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: I got it, brother, Rob a second, I'm telling you
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: we got to.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: Do James Herbert Martin was on the mouth.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: There's a James H.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Martin, we believe a wife and three kids, which.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: Matches up with the amount of kids they had at
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: the time. And then we found of course the die
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Circuit document which deals with right his wife Wanda Martin
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: and the JFK files and.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: Being in what was it, rob It was doing wire
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: intercept work, wire intercept work in Mexico.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: Welcome to conspiracy. You were right there with us, sir, Yes, yeah,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: ten years ago I was. And I'm still a mate.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: How Barcelone Nutter, Okay, everybody.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: I don't believe in alone another region, but I don't
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: believe in this conspiracy thoughts either.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there's a lot you can back up our
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: conspiracy hardness.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: Yes we do.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: We do with documents.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: That's what the That's the thing. If you if you have,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: if you have the juice to sell, then I say
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: bring it on anytime. So then but you know when
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: people do.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: I believes the things, buddy, I trust me, and you'll
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: be like God, damn it, Roberson. And three more years
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: of fucking worked in my life.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember what I was going to say. I
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: was going to say, well, it took you only a
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: couple of years to go from I'm done. I'm never
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: writing another book to writing another book.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: That's that's the fin The funny thing was that I
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: was swearing and cussing for about two hours, and then
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, I went, wait a minute, I've
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: done this book now, so oh, I can do book
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: two and three. But I did think about book two
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: and three, and then all of a sudden, this whole
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: Helsinki thing came up, and I was like, should I
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: put this as a short story thing? And I was like, no,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: this is a story by itself, but it's more than
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: just Oswald. It's a spy story. And I just thought,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: this will be a really good story if I just
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: write this out nicely with the pictures added to it,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: and you know, it will be an interesting chapter overall.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: And I thought, and also, look, I only started what
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: three and a half months ago with this whole thing,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: and I've been using Gemini and chat GPT, and also
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: also i've been using Claude as well. And now I've
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: got one hundred documents, all in alphabetical and chronological order,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: so the thing pretty much writes itself of all the
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: documentations that I've been starting to put in there. And
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: that's what I'm gonna work on now over the next
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: month or two, so then I'll have the whole complete
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: story with all the players involved. Yeah, that's the thing
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: that I had to learn. The people that are all
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: new names for me. It was also different for me
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: to stay to step out of Dallas because you know,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: as you know with prayer Man, everything is Texas Coolal
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: Depository or Dallas. Please, you know, the only thing that's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: from outside is this Warren commissioned stuff or secret Service stuff,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: and that is in relation to Dallas or what happened
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: inside Dallas. So, uh, it's a lot, I know, But
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: I always I was always interested in in uh in
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: Orspenia and uh Warren de Brace that whole thing about
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: also being informed and all that. That's another thing. And uh,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: you know, Malcolm did a lot of investigating on that,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: and a few others, John Armstrong and and and another,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: and so that I'm just I'm slowly digging into that.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: And then now the photography of related stuff starts to
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: come out as well. I'm working on the Minox, I'm
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: working on uh yeah, certain films. I'm not sure I'm
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: gonna touch the Cruder because or two that too, But
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: it's just what I'm what I'm talking about is is
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: that big black mark, the paint block on the back
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: of his head that's that's the only thing that I'm
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: interested about, and I can only can explain that it's
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: a total for gezy backyard photo. Maybe I'm going to
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: dig into it. All depends on, uh, you know, how
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: many chapters I'm going to stick together and what's relevance.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't want to rehash anything. I want
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: to talk about some bits where you go, all right,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm really right about this much. You know. That's
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: and that was Helsinki. That was for me the reason
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: to say, yeah, I'll dig into Helsinki. This is interesting,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, Helsinki has always been a part of this
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: puzzle that has intrigued me and confused me. So is
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: your working theory that he was being maneuvered by someone in.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: Some way because there's no information about it, Because there
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: happens to be the fact that Oswalt just jumps into
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: something that's just about been in play, the quick turnover
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: of Visa, and I don't I don't believe in coincidences,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: and the Central Intelligence Agency certainly doesn't believe in coincidences either. So,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: and the fact that Oswald's five days in the air
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: in the richest hotels of Helsinki for five days. I
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: don't know, man, what.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Has this ever been used before by any previous false defectors.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: Or no, not that I know of. That's another thing.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: I haven't done that yet. But I looked into Webster
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: Webster be indifferent. I think if I'm not mistaken, and
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: you know what it's it's just one of those things
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: that they managed to for Oswald to jump into and
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: do this.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have heard him about it when he was
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: in Japan or whatever.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: You know, you know what. There are elements of it
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: where I just go, there's no agency involvement, and then
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: there's elements where you just go, well, there has to
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: be there has to be something. And but the fact
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: that because you don't know. But the fact also is
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: just that there's nothing really innocent about hell Sinking. I
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: mean just going there and just hanging out five days
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 4: in the most expensive hotels, and yeah, you're basically among
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: the end crowd. And that Oswald. Oswald is not that
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 4: person out. That's why somebody stands in the corner and
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: the eyes people up and looks things down, only speaks
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 4: when spoken to.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: He's not going to the hotel bar and connecting with
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: random you delegates and.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: Ye, yeah, it's exactly. And this is where you just go.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 4: This is completely against his nature of doing things like that.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: It's completely against it, you know. I also to somebody
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 4: who speaks only when spoken to, doesn't volunteer anything, doesn't
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 4: say hey, I heard about Susian song. Oh have you
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: heard about that program? Blah blah blah. No, we'll speak
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: back to you only when spoken to.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: Unless you engage him in a topic that he's interested in,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: he's not going to talk to you. And you know,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: it's funny because I mentioned I was in Italy for
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: six weeks. I can't speak the language. This is anti
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: tourist season. I to literally speak into an app and
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: then show either the you know person I'm talking to
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: what it said. There's no app back then, So how
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: the hell are you going to communicate with these people
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: unless they legit speak English, which is an assumption as well.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 4: I lived in Milan for two and a half years really,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: and that was thirty five years ago, and I didn't
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: speak any Italian and it was as a nightmare in
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: the beginning, and there was there was no apps, there's
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 4: no internet. There's a little booklet and go yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, danced,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 4: lots of hands, lots of pointing and directions, this, that
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: and the other. That's how it worked back then.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they speak too fast.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah oh yeah, yeah mean you're ask him to speak
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: a little piano piano because they just rallied out.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, stupedo americanos.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, they go yeah, oh yeah. That's that's
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: a fact, mate, that's a fact. There's one more thing.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: I pointed this out. This is completely not related to Helsinki.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: But before I posted on Helsinki, I put it on
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: my prayer Man's site. I found a document that's really important.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: This document was found by Chad Nagel. What Chad Nagel
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: did was go to the archives and find the Dallas
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: FBI field reports and he found I think seven hundred
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: and eighty five of them. And these are reports from
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: this November twenty two to the twenty sixth, and all
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 4: the FBI reports from the dallasfield officer are in there,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: well at least seven eighty five of them. And this
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: is why you come across certain reports that are really
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 4: really important, like the Carolyn Arnold's reports from the twenty
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 4: sixth and all all kinds of bits. But if you're
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: real into the rifle, you want to look at that
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: whole stack of reports, because there are something between fifty
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: and one hundred reports on the rifle. It's absolutely beautiful.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: If you want to do a really good chronology on
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: the evidence on how they actually get the rifle evidence,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: then basically take it into evidence and all described it
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: and so forth. That stack of documents is your thing.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: But I found the documents that for me sealed it.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: So when I released my book, I had to do
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: a extra chapter because I thought, well, I'm doing the interrogations.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: So during the interrogations Oswald's fingerprints and palm prints were taken.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: We noticed that because we have the evidence. Around nine
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 4: o'clock in the evening on November twenty second, you have
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: these guys, Captain Doherty and two others walk through the
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: core and showing the palm prints and showed these film
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: fingerprint cards and so forth. That whole thing opened up
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: the whole can of worms where I found out that
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: the actual fingerprints that they show to the press are
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: basically confiscated by the FBI. After Oswald's press conference, they
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: take all the fingerprint and palm print cards with them.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: So Oswald has to be fingerprinted again and palm printed again.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: What we also know is that Lieutenant call Day with
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: the famous footage and the rifle in his above, his
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: souldiers in his hands, and he's wondering about through the hallway.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: That's nine o'clock. That is just before Oswald's fingerprints and
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: pump prints are taken. Now there's been a lot about
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: the palm print because the fingerprints are taken from Oswalt
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: because they know there are fingerprint traces around the trigger gods,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: but they're not good enough. This is when the story
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: of the palm print makes us entry and where Carl
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 4: Day says, I told Vincent drain of the FBI, who
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: then picked up the document, that we that we had
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 4: a palm print on the bump start underneath the barrel,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: but that we didn't cover this off because it was
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: already covered. And we told him that. Vincent Drayne said,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: Carl Day never told me this. And then comes this document.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: And in this document from that date on the twenty second,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: they make a precise inventory of everything that's handed over
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: with the rifle. Fritz's fingerprints are included, Elma Boy's fingerprints
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: are included. The people that take the fingerprints. Their fingerprints
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: are the fingerprints on the rifle are included, But that
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: fucking pomp print. There's absolutely zero mention of it. What's however,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: not even the chatter about the so called prince is
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: about the fingerprints. It's not about the pomp print. So
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: you even have it in black and white that there
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: is no pomp print on that barrel at that point.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: So hey, we've got oswaldt incarcerated, no lawyer, Yeah, that
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: evening fingerprints taken, palm print's taken, No palm print present
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 4: on the barrel. As per evidence, the high del id
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: is not present on November the twenty second, because James
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: Hosty takes record of everything, Nor is that one mention
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: of the high del ide during any of Oswalt's interrogations
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: on November twenty second doesn't get mentioned until the morning
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: of the twenty third, between ten thirty and eleven thirty.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: In the morning Oswald had beautiously till ten, then got
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 4: interrogated at ten and just before eleven thirty they ask
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 4: about the hidelity. Why because the FBI found it at
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: seven point thirty at clients on the twenty third. So
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: the idel idea doesn't even exist. On the Friday, Yeah,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 4: the pomb print doesn't exist. The fingerprints are shit. Yeah,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: you've got nothing. And then they're ragining for the murder
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: of the president because what happens, Oswald gets shot. After
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: the arraignment of the murder, he gets shot. And then
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: you have that scene in the Oliver Stone film where
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 4: dead Oswaltz palm print is taken because they take that
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: barrel and you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, emotionally that's true.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 4: Now I'll tell you what it's not emotionally true. It's
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 4: pretty much spot on what happened, what they did because
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 4: the coronov Us, the guy who was doing the Oswalt's
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: body had to basically clean his hands off the ink
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: because he was covered. That whole story, if you add
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 4: all these elements together, it's just right there in front
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 4: of them. How they basically arraigned an innocent man and
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: basically rail through them under a bus with a palm
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: print that didn't exist but started to exist after his
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: death and the week after following. And I've got it
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: now all on paper, step by step, and then people
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: still start to argue against that lone not of scum.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: I've got a message for him. Yeah, they yeah, who
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: gots you?
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: Well, Bart, this has been an awesome show as usual.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Prare Dashman dot com correct. Yeah,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: for everything Bart you've ever wanted. You can go check
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: out Daily Plaza UK dot com to find all the
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: Maccolma Blunt archives and great his archives, Harrison Livingston archives.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 4: And there's one other guy there right, Mary Keane has
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: got his archive. I've got the archive of what's his name,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: the medical guy, Skip Ryberg. Ye, he's got these drawings
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 4: on there as well. And we're gonna have more stuff coming.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: We're gonna have Johnny kNs on soon, Scott Reid as well.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: We're gonna have to get a page for him as well.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, translators on there for us for those guys I
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: can't understand the words.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: Well, well part thank you. I have two final quick
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: questions next. There is some talk of some people go
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: into the archives in the fall. Is it worth it
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: to request some Helsinki boxes, file numbers, group numbers, all that?
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 4: No, what I would do is, uh, get Antonio Antonio's
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 4: AGCA interview, get that, Just hammer them for that and
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: ask for Striker Hart Committee documentation. That's what I would
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 4: go for. You know, here's the thing. The thing is
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: is that you just have to go for the documents
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 4: that are missing or haven't been scanned in. That's the thing.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's why I pointed those chat Nagel documents out.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 4: And although there was about a quarter of it that
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: was already done beforehand, but the other three quarter was
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: stuff that hadn't been scanned in, and it was just
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 4: a gold mine of of bits of information and you
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: just go like, yeah, this this will fit in there,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 4: and this will fit in there. You know, my my
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: second edition for the prayer Men book, I was gonna
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: I thought i was gonna start on it this year,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: but I'm gonna leave it for another year. Let the
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 4: fin it's just hell sinky thing off, and then I'll
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: start going back into it because I want more time.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: But I've got about one hundred to one hundred and
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: fifty new bits to add on. You know, I've got
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: Kenneth Edeker gave me twenty hours of KRLD footage, which
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 4: is just absolutely amazing. Just imagine a big ass camera
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: in the hallway and just all the traffic going in
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: and out of Fritz's office, just see people walking coming in,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: going on, all uncut, just like CDTV footage, So all
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: these little cliffs that you've seen, and I've got twenty
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: hours of it roughly and just looking at it, and
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: I'm just like, ah, this is a massive job. But
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: I already found helsty and I found level with two
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 4: Secret Service agents and things like that. So because I've
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 4: done this already with my book by putting everything in
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 4: the time chronology, I'm now trying to find out, oh, yeah,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 4: that's that afternoon around that time, and then when I
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 4: see here, I can place him there and I can
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: add that information into the book and say, oh, yeah,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: visually confirmed he's working. Oh but he's walking with two
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: secret agents and that's not secret Service agents. That's not
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 4: mentioned in his reports. Just just tightened the lid even
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: more shut than before, just tightened way shut. And that's
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 4: that will happen in a year or two till I
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: finally get the inclination to go through everything again. And
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: I also see what all this lunar thing is going
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 4: to accomplish. It's not going to accomplish anything, mark my words. Well,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 4: certain people go like, yeah, they'll be tried very hard. Yeah,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 4: we did nothing.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: Last question, this.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: Second, one second before he start all after is one
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: thing the Lunar Committee is have one list of all
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 4: the documentation. That's me everything else, all the conspiracies and
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 4: all the other lardi forget about that. Just put the
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: really boring list together and say there's that many boxes
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: of this and that many boxes of that, and we
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: don't have this, and we don't have that. We want
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 4: the records of customs. Yeah on alsoal the New Orleans
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 4: we want the agency as for us, we want the
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 4: Church Committee files. We want the hart Schweiger Committee files. Yeah,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: all that stuff they have, Church Committee, massive stuff, all missing.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 4: It's all missing. It's just not being scared. Yeah, why
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 4: not have a guess because it all gives the game
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: away everything, all your dirty tricks. All that's come out
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 4: so far is all dirty tricks. I mean, people say, well,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: there was not conspiracy, because it's a conspiracy to cover
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 4: all this crap up, because it's just a massive cost
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: of fuck because every department, every department. Yeah, yeah, right,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 4: last question Joe go for.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well I would just because you said about I
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: in s we had a really banger of an episode
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: based on some of the I n S testimony on
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: from some of the agents of Oswalds pre yeah, pre
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: Walker shooting movements and did he actually go back to
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: New Orleans before the Walker shooting. And then of course
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: you have the manifest with High Dell on it from
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: David Ferry, and.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: There's talk of a First Street fracas at Paineous Bar
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: as a matter of fact, the weekend before the Walker
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: shooting in New Orleans whereas Well supposedly gets arrested and
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: he pretends like he's Russian or something and they send
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: the I n S down there and they're like and
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: he's like, I'm just kidding, and they're like, get this
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: fucker out of here. You know that they don't even
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: book him. But it's interesting to think about.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all found on the Malcolm Blunt archives. By the way,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: this is funds and this is a layup for you
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: bart England or Norway.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 4: Always gonna win this simple as that. I mean, if
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 4: England wins, I'll eat my script. But uh no, I'm Holland.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: Yea the forward, Yeah amazing.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: I called him. I called him the Viking because he
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: the Viking.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: He looks like is more is Dutch before English?
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: Damn it. Yeah, and we did terrible. Are going for
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: we did terrible.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: Let's get out of the record. Let's get you on
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: the record. Who are you rooting for?
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 4: I think, you know what it's gonna be. Argentina France.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: They're gonna win the World Cup, I think so, you
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 4: know this, Argentina France. They both those teams have basically
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: made the most steady impression as a tournament team. You know,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 4: every game solid. Argentina, you know, colucky, but they did it.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: But France as well, just solid. You know, Spain is
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: doing good. But we'll just have to see how he goes.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: You know what. The last four is always a bit
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: of a what's it going to be?
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a toss up. I
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 4: didn't expect Holland to get destroyed that easy, so I
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 4: didn't expect that to happen. I have not.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: Watched a single game good.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, although I thought over all the football is pretty good,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 4: the quality of it, it is very good, but it's
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 4: destroyed by marketing exact the Americans.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: Hey, Riggins is getting his number retired finally, who John Riggins.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 4: That it's before your time?
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: Never Okay, I'm young, Sorry.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: American football. But it's not only the greatest Redskins to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: ever play the game. But I think anyway, bark too
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: much for showing up and doing this.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 4: Buddy. There's good fun as always, so hell yeah, it's
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 4: always a good time.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: Uh when Bart is on the show, and the first
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: time for Joe, you see why I love Bart so much? Now, right, Joe,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: I've seen it for a while. I've loved I've loved
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: Bart from afar and uh, Non you know what.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: Way no home.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: You say? Over here and again. Check out the book
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: prayer Man. You can buy it on Amazon or through
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 3: the website prayer dash Man dot com and be on
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: the lookout for the hell Sinky cordor movie slash movie.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's going to be an article at first, and
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 4: then it will probably be turned into a book.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: It's a multimedia extravaganza. Comes out. Put that bourb on
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: the back of that book. It's a multimedia extravaganza. Yeah,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: it says Rob Clark of the Longcoming podcast. Yeah, Bart, thanks,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: thank you very much, guys. One second, and let me
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: say goodbye to the people. At times, we have over
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 3: fifty or sixty people in here, Bart watching watching the show,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: so it's crazy as well. Folks in the chat, thank
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 3: you for hanging out with us here live book. Yes,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 3: go by the fucking book, please please, thank you. It's
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: a great book. And we'll see you here for part
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: two of our little hell sinky thing where we'll go
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: behind the scenes of We'll go deeper than Bart went tonight.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: We'll go a little deeper.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: Legis down, yes, right down here, Yes, all right, folks,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: we'll see you Bart.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: Thank you as usual, buddy, Yes here around everybody.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: Well, stay for the stay for the closing song as
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: Ruby will.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: Well, we can't do that tonight, Joe, I don't have
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 3: Bart set up in the closing song. Okay, this is
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: going to be a cold close. Everybody waved by to Ruby,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: Bye Ruby, by Ruby who might.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Be or not be named after Jack Ruby. But we'll
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: see all.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 4: Right, folks. That's it for us.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: Peace, See you next time.