Latest / Conspiracy! The Show / The Storming of Brazilian Congress Pt. 2

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The Storming of Brazilian Congress Pt. 2 · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: dairy podcast, with your hosts, Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I'm Adam Todd Brown and I'm Olivia Hidar.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: And that I believe makes us your hosts.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I think that's right. Olivia. How's it going?
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: You know it's going okay? I think you know.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: It's actually been sunny today in La, which actually has
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: been weirdly rare the last few weeks.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I bought a like to start commuting to the office
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: in like late December early January. Right, I have literally
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: been able to ride it like four or five times.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: It's been weird, like since I moved back to LA. Basically,
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: I would say eighty percent of the time it's been raining.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you've gotten pretty much all rain.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Which I usually like rain in La. I think it's fun, yeah,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: but not like this. Oh And people get annoyed when
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: people in LA complain about rain because it's so sunny
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: all the time. But here's the thing. We're built in
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: the goddamn desert. The city is not built for a
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: constant rainfall.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: No, no, this is a natural disaster. What has happened
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: in California over the past few months.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: It's a nightmare. Driving anywhere is a nightmare.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: And speaking of disasters, a fun quirk of having recently
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: had my face surgery. Whenever it rains now my teeth hurt.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Oh that's fun.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. Yeah, it was happening a little bit
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: before the surgery, and I kind of thought I was
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: either making it up or it was just a side
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: effect of having a needle embedded in my face. Yeah,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: but no, since I've had the surgery, it's gotten so
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: much worse. And it's I looked it up. It's a thing.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It has to do with barometric pressure.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: It's great, absolutely, no. Yeah, Like I fucked up my
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: knee a few years ago toward my PCL, and it
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: hurts way more when I mean it always hurts, but like,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: it hurts way more when it rains.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: It sucks. Yeah, you know what else sucks? This is
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: gonna be such a smooth segue. The political situation in Brazil.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost as bad as La being rainy.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Almost. Yeah, not quite as disruptive to my life, which
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: makes it less important.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: It's true, that's true, of course.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's things going on. This will be our
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: third episode about the attacks on the Brazilian Congress and
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: just the whole political landscape in Brazil. My god, it's
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: just the United States down there.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unfortunate, and I feel bad for them because
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: of that. I'm sorry. It's our fault. I'm sure somehow.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubt about that. I'm sure we were
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: instrumental in making a lot of this happen. But it's
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: just eerie how perfectly this mirrors what has happened in
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the United States with Donald Trump especially. And we should
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit about the two episodes we've already
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: done in case people didn't hear them, want to go
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: back and revisit them. Hit the show notes. I'll link
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: to both of them. One was a bonus episode about
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a documentary called The Edge of Democracy, which is a
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: documentary I like a whole lot.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It is a fascinating snapshot of people yearning for the
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: return of a millilitary dictatorship.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: That's the thing that I think kind of gives the
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Brazilian you know, news, some some of spice. Oh yeah,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: because that's the thing that's missing from American politics is
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: the fact that there's a moderate portion of the population
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: that grew up under a literal military dictatorship and liked
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: it and want to return to that, which is such
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: a weird thing. I mean, it is and it isn't
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: do you know.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I didn't live under that military
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: dictator Yeah, and how do I know?
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: Neither do I? And I'm sure because it's how it
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: happens in every system, like flawed system that there were
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: people where it was way better like conditions. Yeah, because
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: these systems have to benefit somebody.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: The problem is when you look into that part of
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: stuff like this, Yeah, it ends up that those systems
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: were probably benefiting rich people, right of course, exactly, And
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: that when the United States tends to get involved, because
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: where there are rich people in Central and South America,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: there are US business interests teaming up with those rich
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: people to make sure the poor people in that country
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: don't eat, and once they start eating, we get mad
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: and we get involved. I don't know if that's what's
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: happening here or not, honestly, but the edge of democracy
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: covers the arrest of Luis Nacio Lula da Silva, who
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: people mercifully just call Lula on the world stage. It
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: covers his arrest and the impeachment of his successor, dil Marussev,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: and sort of touches on the rise of Bolscenaro. Yeah.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like a Star Wars prequelly kind of. Yeah,
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Palpatines in the background making little moves.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he like shows up in an end credit scene.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like Banos dark mall take care of this myself.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And we did an episode about that, which was a
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: bonus episode. But on the bright side, if you're a subscriber,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: just go watch The Edge of Democracy. Yeah you'll get
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: now'll get the gist of the episode. If you don't
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: have the money to subscribe, we understand you have to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: pay Netflix and they need the money way worse than us.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: So after that, we did a free episode about the
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: storming of the Brazilian Congress, but we didn't quite get
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to that part. We just talked about the lead up
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: to it.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the thing, like, we're talking about a
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: country that I think most of our listeners probably aren't
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: super familiar with their normal electoral politics, and so I
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: think it was important to get a little bit of
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: ketch up in order to have some context to what
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: as actually going on.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Right, and that episode did highlight what I think one
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: of the big differences is between what happened at the
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: US Capitol on January sixth and what ends up happening
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: in Brazil on January eighth of twenty twenty three, so
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: two years later, which is the run up to the attack.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: In Brazil, At least to me, it seems like it
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: was a little more intense sure, whereas in the United
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: States on January sixth, there were calls for a rally
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and there were like hints that something was going to happen.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: If you were tuned into that, and I'm sorry, if
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: you were that right wing cess pit of a social circle,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: then you would have heard about like bubblings.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And that was, you know, a few days before January sixth,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and there was that rally and they were like, come
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: out to the rally, it's going to be nuts. In Brazil,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: people just went and camped out at military bases for
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: like weeks on end, waiting for the military. I would argue,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: expecting the military to step in and do what they
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: wanted done. They wanted the military to storm Congress in
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: the Presidential Palace, and when it didn't happen, then they
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: just went and did it themselves. And you didn't really
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: see that with January sixth. It felt a little more spontaneous.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, yes, there was obviously police participation and
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: stuff in that, but it was not of the same tenor. Again,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: this is what comes from what I was talking about
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: earlier history of having a military dictatorship. People are gonna
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: have different impulses for these things.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, different expectations in the military also.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly, And like it would have been interesting to
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: see people like camping out in front of like police
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: stations or whatever.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: And they're on to something by trying to coerce the
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: military into joining their side, because a coup doesn't work otherwise, Right,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: January sixth would have worked if someone called the National
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Guard and they were like, we're here to fight for Trump. Sure,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: that would have really changed the tenor.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Event would have been a very different event.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And same thing here the military, just like with Trump
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: in the United States. In Brazil, the military and the
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: police love Bolsnaro. Yeah, and so I get why protesters
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: were like, are they gonna do it? If we pushed
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: them hard enough, will they just like go overthrow Lula
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: on our behalf And they did not completely, No, like
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: not all the way. No.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: But that's the thing is I think probably what the military,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: or you know, even if there was anybody in the
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: military even thinking about wanting a coup or whatever, I
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: imagine they're like, well, they're going to be able to
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: get Bullscenaro in a different way. Whos are really hard guys.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like he's got a good shot at
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: winning the next election in Brazil if nothing else exactly, So, yeah,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: a little patience might be advised. They could just end
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: it that way.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: I think this storming the Congress in Brazil was a
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: bad idea. They shouldn't have done it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a bold stance, but I think I
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: would side with you. It probably wasn't the best course
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: of action, but neither was storm in the Capitol on
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: January sixth. I agree, And it's a thing I'm gonna
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: say so many times, but there are just so many
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: weird similarities between those two events, including the part where
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: in both cases it seemed like they didn't have a
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: plan after they got inside, Like the plan from there
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: was to get on Instagram and record video saying we
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: just overthrew the government. Yeah, it's like you didn't come close.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: You are being a public nuisance right now. You are
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: not overthrowing the government.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just thinking about people like charging into Nancy Pelosi's
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: office or whatever. These are not serious people.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Right and like sitting at her desk and putting their
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: feet up. It's like, quit showing off, right idiots. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: so that all brings us to the events of January eighth,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, when a mob of angry Boson supporters
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: stormed Brazil's Congress, Supreme Court, and the presidential offices, which,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: let's not give them too much credit. Those buildings are
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: all very close together.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're all very close together. And that weird nether
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: realm who were the Brazilian Congress were like the European
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: calmists like erected this.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I mean in the case of the presidential palace,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: it seems like the police were just like holding the
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: door open, yeah, with a sign that said Lula. So
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: getting in that one probably wasn't that hard either. Also,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: why not do it on January sixth, show some solidarity?
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is interesting. I mean I don't know who
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: knows if that's even on their rate. Does anybody outside
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: of the US like know that date offhand?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I don't listen to podcasts usually, And this is a
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: reason why my wife does listen to podcasts, and when
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I'm in the car with her, like, I'm not that asshole,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: who's what podcast? Yeah, she can listen to whatever she wants.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And this host interviewing voters who had voted in twenty
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: twenty two in the midterm elections, and these were young voters. Yeah.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: One of his questions was how did the events of
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: January sixth inform your voting decisions? And her answer was,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: can you refresh my memory what happened on January sixth? Good?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: It's like God, good for her?
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Damn good?
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah, Like, on the one hand, that's like
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: someone being like green Day, I've never heard of green
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. That's interesting, yes, but like but also no,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: but is that unusual?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I mean I don't know, Like I'm too online to
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: know whether it's normal to know that date off the
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: top of my head.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's it's like a baby nine to
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: eleven a little bit in terms of important dates.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Like the people didn't die. I don't care.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I know people didn't die, but it was a shocking scene. Yes,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: it's not how protests normally go in this country. And honestly,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: the fact that more people didn't die, yeah, is one
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: of the most shocking things.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, I agree with that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it feels like a date that will live
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: in infamy, you know, Yes, to quote is at FDR.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: David shall live in infamy? Is FDR?
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, man, I just don't know if
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: anybody outside of the US really has that in their brain.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's possible that they don't.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: It's hard for me to know that, I guess.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, that is kind of the only difference. Though.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: There's more buildings involved, and it happened on a different
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: day in January. But beyond that, all the hallmarks are there.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: These idiots burst in these buildings angry at COVID measures
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: probably still so not wearing masks, I mean, especially this
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Actually there might have been more masks in this case
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: because COVID was less of a thing by this point,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: as opposed to January twenty twenty one, where those rioters
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: were like not wearing masks, like pointedly as another form
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: of protest, and it's like you really needed to pick
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: one protest or the other in that moment.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many funny things about that fucking.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: That's I think that's arguably the funniest. Still so anti
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: mask that you don't wear one when you storm the
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: most heavily surveilled building in all the fucking land. That
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: is nuts.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Well, it does show their implicit trust of authority.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose. Ough. So not only is this angry
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: right wingers attacking over an election that they've decided is stolen,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: but there were also a whole lot of claims and
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: suggestions that some of the people responsible for protecting those
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: buildings were either in on the attacks or at the
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: very least did not do anything to try to stop them.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Right like the Capitol.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Were any of those cops fired or were they just
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: suspend I.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Never fucking count on cops getting fired for doing something immoral.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whenever I hear like, oh, this CoP's been suspended
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: for two weeks for flying Nazi flags in his Facebook postline,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, shouldn't we do a little more?
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: No, that'll solve it. He won't be a Nazi anymore.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: After his week vacation exactly.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So this is a quote. These people were motivated by
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theories. They believe the leftists are seizing power. Their
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: argument was that this communist agenda would install LGBTQ rights,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: unisex bathrooms, and abortion. It's not logical, it's just against
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: what they see as a conservative way of thinking. And
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: they wrap it all together and call it communism, even
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: though that's not what communism is and nothing close to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: communism is happening in Brazil. That is tie n Alan,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: executive director of fact checking organization Aos Fatos, basically describing
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: January sixth.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Also, yeah, this is one reason why right wing groups,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: and I've mentioned this before, are so they have so
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: much more popular consensus within the group than leftists do
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: because right wingers are the same everywhere. Yeah, they all
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: hate the same things and that unites them, true and
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: leftists unfortunately don't have that.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And in this case, the right wingers also echoed
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: a claim that right wingers in the United States made
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: about the Capitol riots. Here's a quote from Carlos Jordi,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: pro Bolsonaro lawmaker via Twitter. Will these infiltrated leftists who
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: promoted chaos and vandalism yesterday be held accountable. So what
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: they're saying is, no, this wasn't Bolscenaro supporters. This is
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: just outside agitators who want to make them look bad.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: And is that claim ever not bullshit? Like no matter
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: who's making it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: I mean on this scale, probably not. But like there
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: are agitators who try to, you know, make protests look bad.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: It's just usually happening to left wing protests.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Like oh, you mean like the cop that burned down
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the AutoZone.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly the person I was thinking of, in addition
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: to others. And like, that's a different thing than saying
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: all of those people who like they started it, that's
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: just probably not what happened. There's way too many fucking
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: people there.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing with January sixth. They couldn't all be FBI.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Come on, oh, just like well, I mean some of
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: them like a fourth or something like an eighth FBI
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: something like.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: That, and then like another fourth police.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: An essay, Capitol police, things like that. Yeah. So another
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: characteristic of these attacks that were very similar to here
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: in the United States, it seems like, at least to
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: some extent, the government knew this was coming. Lula's administration
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: has just straight up said, yeah, we knew this was
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: gonna happen, and we thought we could contain it. Lula
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: has been like, he's still like, oh man, I'm surprised.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I'd be surprised too if the government
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: let this happen to its incident. So at least five
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: days before it happened, Bolsnaro supporters were calling for attacks
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: via telegram and WhatsApp. This is in all caps, if
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you can believe it. Attention patriots from all over Brazil.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: On January eighth, we will bring Brazilia to a halt.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: That actually does not sound like we will storm Congress.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, it sounds more like a general strike. But
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: they're right wing, so it's not that right.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: But it does. I feel like if you were the
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: one who posted that, you could at least hide behind
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: the idea that well, I was just telling people to
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: show up.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Maybe it sounds different in Portuguese.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that also. I don't know if it was in
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Portuguese or oh yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: I mean probably would have been right.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there's a decent
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: contingent of English speakers in sure brazil They fucking.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I mean no, they're definitely yeah, for sure, but I
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: There was even a hashtag, oh, hashtag Brazilian spring. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: First of all, it's January.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Among other issues.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: A little early, the LULID.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Administration was aware of the threats, but officials had received
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: assurances from ibanicze Rocca, the pro Bolsonaro governor of Brazilia's
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: federal district, that they could contain what was about to happen.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: If you're the LULID administration in that case, I have
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: to imagine there was at least some temptation to be like, no, actually,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: we got it, we'll take care of like ordering the security, or.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: At least be like me, like double check your work,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: yeah on this white bord here, just show your work.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, show us how you go.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: We'll have some we'll have some people go through your
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: facility and make sure things are okay.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing, they might not have been lying
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: about that. Sure, they probably could have contained what was
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: about to happen, but one like we've already touched on
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: a little bit. There were sympathizers all throughout the police
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and military presence in this case. I know we saw
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: it at the Capitol riot too, but it seems like
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: it was a little more prominent. Sure, here there were
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: like pictures of cops like buying coconut water and just
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: like letting shit happen. Lula himself said, the police opened
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: the door to the presidential palace because it wasn't broken. Wow,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So how did they get in? They certainly he didn't
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: go unlock it for him. So do we know that,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: maybe prove it wasn't you, Lula. And beyond that, it
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: seems like what happened is the governor of this area
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: was like, all right, I'm gonna provide a military force
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: of this size, and then on the day of the riots,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: that military force was like half, if even that. It
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: was apparently significantly smaller than what he said it would be.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And he has provided no explanation as to why that
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: was the case.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, we could make all the guesses
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: we want, but I think I might have some ideas.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: This is a quote from Justice Minister Flavio Dino. The
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: fundamental element of our plan with the Governor of Brasilia
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: was not fulfilled. I could see from the window of
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the Ministry of Justice that the contingent of military police
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: was not what was agreed between us and the governor.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: End quote. I feel like if you're in the Ministry
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: of Justice, you should at least be like firing some
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: shots from your window, like you should be sending a
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: team of superheroes out of the Ministry of Justice. Yeah.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: You think Flavio is armed.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: He's in Brazil. Yeah, Yeah, of course he's armed. That's
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: one of the things Bolsonaro did while he was in office.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: He made gun ownership super duper popular among his supporters,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: which God, that would have to be uncomfortable to watch unfold. Yeah,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: you're in the opposing party.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine what it would be like to see
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: people promote gun culture.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I know. Yeah, and I was gonna say, but in
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: this case, it's just on one side. Yay, same thing
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: here name essentially oh Man So Roca denied colluding with
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: the rioters and fired his security minister to prove it,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: but people remain unconvinced.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: A senior advisor to Lula, speaking to The Washington Post said,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I cannot say what the governor did to increase security,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: but he was complicit. That was part of this attempted coup. Also,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: just like the US coup attempt, it seems like there wasn't,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: like I said, much of a plan in place. Yeah,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: once the rioters got inside the building.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, what's the plan going to be without
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: a major armed force to actually install a new government?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And I am surprised there weren't more guns because we
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: talked about that on the previous episode. There was the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: guy who was arrested for trying to plant a bomb
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: at I think it was South Poloport in Brazil, and
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: one of his whole things was, look, I spent my
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: life savings buying guns because Bolsonaro said, buy guns, and
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: we're gonna need them soon. And why didn't they bring
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: those guns to this riot? Yeah?
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, my only guess would be
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: that they kind of were putting all their chips on
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: the military providing that part of it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We have a quote here in the notes from
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Anna Julia Bunzanini Bernardi, a professor in sal Polo. Many
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: of these people were camped out at military headquarters for
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: weeks and thought that by entering these buildings they would
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: force some kind of response. I think a lot of
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: them really thought the military was going to take over.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which is not an irrational thought.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: No, not in this case. And so I also feel
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: like the response from the Brazilian government has been a
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: little more heavy handed than what has happened here, and
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: that's understandable to some extent. But we'll get into it
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: more at the end of the episode. But in the
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: days after the riot, the Lula administration arrested like around
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: fifteen hundred people. But one of the most shocking moves
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: in response wasn't an arrest, but the firing of the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: head of the Brazilian military, General Julio Caesar de Aruda.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: He had had that job since late December, So I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: think that's one of the things that makes it a
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: little less shocking, Like if this had been a long
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: time head of the Brazilian military. Yeah, and then he
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: got fied. I could see the military in that case
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: being like, all right, maybe we will overthrow you then, right,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, this guy had had the job since December,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and it seems like it all stemmed from Lula ordering
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: him to fire someone else and the guy was like, no,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, And he was like
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: all right, you're both fired, which, yeah, that's almost like
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: drug dealer rules. You can't let people see you be
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: that week, in that moment. Like there's no way he
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: couldn't admire that guy for ignoring that order.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, if it's anything like the US, and I
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: don't know if it is, because I'm still a novice,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: you know, to this culture. But like the president's the
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: commander of the armed forces, so you've got to like
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: and you know, I don't like the military, but I
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: know that you gotta fucking have discipline in that shit.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Like that's the whole thing.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: And Aruda is also alleged to have stopped police from
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: detaining suspected rioters, took refuge at an encampment outside Brazil
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: his army headquarters on the night of the attack, and like, yeah,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: that'll do it too, Yeah, like if yeah, you're in charge.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: That also sounds like America, though it sure does.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: And that move is alleged to have allowed for the
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: escape of scores of rioters. No you don't say that's awesome.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad that this guy had the job of
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: head of the fucking military for three weeks or whatever
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: the fuck.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like even that short amount of time he had.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: It is terrifying, and this is a quote from Lula himself.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Many people were complicit in this. Many people in the military,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: police were complicit. There were many people in the armed
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: forces here inside who were complicit. Yeah, that's got to
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: be mildly terrifying. Yeah, because then you just got to
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: hope you get them all.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like Lula. He knows what his
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: standing is with these people. He's not an idiot.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And in addition to the head of the military,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: at least eighty other military officials have been arrested. Brazilian
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: authorities also issued arrest warrants for two other government security officials,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: one of them being Anderson Torres, the man who was
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: effectively in charge of security for the capitol. He has
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: taken a whole lot of blame in the wake of
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the riots. He was Bolsonaro's justice minister before becoming the
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: security chief of the federal district where the attacks happened. Yeah,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: this part classic. Upon taking the job, he immediately fired
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: a bunch of key figures in the department and then
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: left for Florida for vacation, which is where he was
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: when this all happened. And it's like, oh, yeah, you
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: didn't have anything to do with this.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Right, absolutely. I like that he fucked off the fucking Florida.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I think Bolsonaro's still there.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: It's just like for the American politicians I do.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: It's where American politicians go to hide. It's where a
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: lot of the business types who were in control of
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Venezuela before Chavez took over, a lot of them ended
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: up in Florida and especially Miami. That's why areas like
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: that are always a little more conservative than you expect
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: him to do. Yeah, I am Retirees fucking vote absolutely,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and they vote based on how the president feels about
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: the leader of the country. They fled. That happens more
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: than you fucking think, and they don't always get it right,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: like people who support Trump because of his stance on China.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: It's backwards, like Obama and Biden have been way fucking
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: stronger in China. Yeah, but that's a whole other episode. So,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: as we mentioned earlier, it's also alleged that the security
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: detail he promised the Lula administration was far more robust
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: than what he actually provided on that day. And yeah,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: they haven't explained that, which that requires an explanation.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's fair, and everybody was.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Sick along those same lines. If you look into to
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: say the United States and Malcolm X as an example,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: dig into that story and look at the police presence
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: on the day he was killed, Because you're talking about
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: a Nation of Islam meeting that happened in a major
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: city with a huge police presence. Normally there'd be a
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: ton of cops there and this time there were two
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: along with like ten undercover FBI agents in the room
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: who were not there to protect and serve. No, no,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: if you can believe it, they didn't do much to
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Bureau of Investigation, Yeah, they didn't do much to stop
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the killing of that civil rights leader. Wow, despite what
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: they had on the sign their.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Longtime interest in the rights.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh shocking.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Never going to forget that.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So not only his torre has not given an explanation
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: for why he provided the security for us he did.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: His ties to Bolsonar are just a little too cozy.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, Justice minister.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He famously appeared alongside Bolsnaro for the entirety of
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: a two hour live stream where the two of them
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: demonstrated how voting machines could be hacked. It was all debunked,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and people who could actually hack voting machines replied and
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: were like, no, this isn't accurate, but it's one of
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the things that got this whole ball rolling, and so
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: in A rest warrant was also issued for the aforementioned
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: governor of Brazilia, Ebanie Rocca, who had already been suspended
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: from his job. There was also a request to freeze
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Bolsonaro's assets, but it wasn't immediately clear if that's going
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: to work. That's a very long process.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have to imagine that there is a lot
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: that goes into something like that.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they aren't sure why they're saying to freeze
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Bolsnaro's assets because they're there isn't a ton of evidence
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: that he like inspired these riots.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: But I mean it could also just be punitive, you know,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: just like man, fuck you. Yeah, like honestly, and you
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: know what, that's fair. I think Bullsadaro deserves a healthy fuck.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean fuck him for sure. I think
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the part about who's financing this is interesting but also
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: completely predictable. Sure, if this was a movie, you would
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: want it to be like a fucking evil spirit in
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: the woods or something. And then now it's just fucking
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: angry rich people.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Oh no, if you.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Can believe it. Yeah, Like I said earlier, this wasn't
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a thing that just happened. It wasn't a spur of
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the moment thing. People camped out for weeks. They got
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: on buses to travel there. And these are presumably people
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: with jobs and bills and things, some of them who
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: you know, probably can't immediately afford something like that, Yeah,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: And if they can, they can't necessarily afford to take
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: the time off work. So it's pretty clear there was
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of money behind this. Yeah, And the question
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: after who did this became who financed it? Right? And
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: so the first action that the government took in that
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: regard happened just a few days after the riots, when
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: authorities asked a federal court to block one point three
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: million in assets belonging to fifty two people and seven
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: companies alleged to have helped fund the buses that carried
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: the rioters to their eventual destination. I guess that's fair.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, wouldn't you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Have to be able to prove that they knew they
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: were sending them there for the purpose of carrying out
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: a riot.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Probably, but there's no way that's that difficult.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah I suppose.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, like, especially if they're as online as other conservatives.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Well that's the thing. That's the thing that you are
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: seeing here too, where a lot of these prosecutions and
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: things are based on social media posts.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: I'm just trying to imagine the hell that is being
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: on one of those buses.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it would be the worst.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: There are very few environments that I can think of
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: that would be more hostile.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that would be bad times, no fun,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: no fun at all. God, probably worse for you than
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: it would be fun. Sure. Yeah.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking about that. I was just thinking
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: of like, oh god, do you imagine, like they're all
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: singing like their terrible right, yeah, song parodies.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Or whatever, waving the Brazilian flag around.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: Like in that documentary you saw their like memes and
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: like in jokes, and it's all the same corny shit
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: that we get here.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Remember the Lady Gaga thing. Yeah, they thought Lady Gaga
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: was an employee of the Criminal Court at the Hague,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: which that was weird. Oh that was fun. So the
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: companies who had their assets frozen or that they asked
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: the court to block. They're mostly transportation firms and small
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: businesses based in the southern and southeastern regions of the country,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: along with a small agra business union and a small
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: timber company, both from the South. Agribusiness that is the
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: sector that people are really focusing on here as being
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: like the people who did it. Sure, and if you're
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: listening here in the greatest country on Earth, being blessed
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: by God, with the greatest podcast on Earth, you might
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: hear America.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, oh.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was talking about the United States.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know about that.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you might hear oh the agrabusiness sector like a
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: bunch of farmers.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Come on. Yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: But also sometimes farmers are fucking rich.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think about farmers who feed the fucking world basically.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Yes. One of the examples I'm gonna link to an
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: article called Brazilian agra business became a vector for putschism,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: which that's not a good term, I promise you, even
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: if you don't know what it means. It's written by
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Amanda Audi writing for an outlet called The Brazilian Report.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: All the facts and stats that I'm going to cite
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: here come from that article, and unless you want to
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: subscribe to the Brazilian Report, you're just going to have
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: to take my word for it because you cannot read
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: this article for free. But also it costs like a
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: dollar for the first month, so give it a read.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: It's actually very interesting because that was my question, like
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: why does the agra business sector love Bolsonaro so much?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: And it comes down to regulations, Yeah, which same reason
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: businesses love Trump exactly, because when Bolsonaro took office, he
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: enacted fifty seven different legislative measures to roll back different
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: conservation efforts, environmental protections.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: And again we're talking about Brazil, which is.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: It's got some important stuff to protect.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Home to most of the Amazon rainforest, it's one of
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: the most important and diverse habitats on the planet. Yes,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and Bolscenaro was lucky enough to have been born there
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: and wants to raise it to the fucking ground.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wants to burn that fucking thing.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: It's sickening to the ground. He wants to got such
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: a hard on for missiles.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I could see that. And so deforestation under
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Bolsnaro increased by nearly sixty percent when he was in office,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: and you know that's exactly what it sounds like. It's
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: cutting down the Amazon rain. Yes, basically, so people can
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: either sell the timber or develop the land or boat.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: So fucked up, and Lula promised to put those protections
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: back in place if he retook office. And that's pretty
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: much how it started. From that point on. The agribusiness sector, specifically,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: the people who were making money off of deforestation got
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: really invested in Bolsonaro. And from there it becomes like
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: a chicken or the egg kind of thing, like were
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: they Nazis going in or did they go into the
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Bolsonaro camp on this one issue and then come out
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the other end. Oh, also we hate all gay people Jesus,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: just because you want to cut down the jungle.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: It all kind of goes together.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. It just snowballs from there.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's predictable and sad. Yeah, and it's really disheartening
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: that these people even exist.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: Literally the villains from the Avatar.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Movies and their team up has been pretty successful. They
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: are heavily invested in Bolsonaro financially.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Most of his campaign donations came from the agribusiness sector,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: including the largest individual donor being a man who again,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: if you're at home thinking, oh, a bunch of fucking farmers.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: His largest donor was a man who owns farmland that,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: if combined, would be equivalent to the area of Austin, Texas.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: So that guy is raking in some fucking coin.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm sure all of his laborers are well paid.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all well paid laborers. And I'm sure none
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: of that farmland is like former Amazon forests like us.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: They were also the agribusiness sector was instrumental in that
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: effort to spread the idea of going to Brazil on
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: January eighth online the Brazil Green and Yellow Movement, which
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: if you just wrote that on a piece of paper
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: and slid it across the table to me, I'd be like, oh,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: what kind of good are they getting up to? They
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: sound like a good outfit, not realizing like green and
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: yellow are the colors of flags, right, getting a little
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: nationalists right exact. They are a coalition of more than
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: three hundred rural producers associations. They called on protesters to
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: quote take power in a social media post they later deleted.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: So it's gone.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: So there's no proof, no proof whatsoever.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's gone. Forever.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no one's ever seen it since. And also there's
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Telegram and WhatsApp groups that are dedicated
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: to like agriculture, agriculture.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Jobs sounds fun.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly the kind of thing you get on social
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: media for find out about hog futures and shit. And
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: those groups were really active also in pushing the idea
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: that people should go at least just go, just go
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: and see what happens on January eight.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: We're not saying what you should do.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: One recent report showed that farmers from the south of
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Para State, one of the Amazon regions where deforestation is
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: increasing the fastest, we're spending their own money and setting
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: up crowdfunding campaigns to pay for the buses that sent
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: rioters to Brazilia. Cool, And it's like, all because you
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: want to fucking burn down the rainforest and turn them
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: into parking lots or whatever the hell is going to happen.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Apparently gold miners are way into Bolsonaro, so probably for
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: the same reason.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: And again, what a great industry that's never produced any
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: of the most toxic workplaces on the planet.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Now, mining in general I think is usually pretty cool.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Ah, it really bums me the fuck out that these
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: people exist. It's one of those things where this can
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: really easily send me into a real exist digital despair. Yeah,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: because of how much these people fucking hate the planet. Yes,
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: and like I'm no fucking nature person or whatever, you know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: like I don't go hiking or whatever, but like I
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: like green things.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And it's nice that we have it.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's nice that it produces like sixty percent of
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: the world's oxygen or whatever the fuck the number is.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And I feel like in every case, it's just a
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: thing where the view has to be well, I'll be
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: dead before all the bad stuff starts, either that or
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: one thing. I feel like they should just leave this
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: out when they're talking about the dangers of global warming.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: But how many times have you heard, Oh, poor people
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: and really impoverished countries are gonna get it the worst. Yeah,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: And it's like, don't tell these rich fucks that, well.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: This is the thing, like you know, no, yeah, exactly,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: they know they're happy about it, but like, right, you
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: know there are actually people who might care about that
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: and think it's bad. Yeah, it's really depressing overall.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Another weird similarity here, I mean not weird, but if
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: you can believe it. These people do represent kind of
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: a minority or like a fringe group in Brazil, even
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: among the agriculture sector.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: Well, because it's not sustainable, and any smart business owner
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: would realize that regulations are trying to also make the
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: industry more sustainable.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Right. This is a quote from Environment Minister Marina Silva
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: at the World Economic Forum. The vast majority of agribusiness
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: supports stricter environmental policies. Mister Bolsonaro's more relaxed policy was
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: aimed more at an audience that operates illegally. The bulk
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: of agribusiness is concerned with improving the country's image abroad
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: in order to export more in the future. And today
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: the deforestation of the Amazon, which Jayre Bolsonaro facilitated, is
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the greatest damage to the country's reputation. Yeah, I would
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: agree with that. That's true.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: It's absolutely true, Like the.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: World needs that. Yes, don't fucking it down.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: We like it and we're sorry that we started burning
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: it down. We didn't mean to, well we did, but
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: we take it back right, Yeah, and stop now please.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: So there is an obvious debate here, sure, and I'll
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: link to an article about it. It all centers around
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: a guy named Alexander de Moreus, who I think might
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: have come up on some of the previous episodes. But
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: he is a Brazilian Supreme Court justice and he's the
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: guy who's been kind of tasked with dealing with this.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: He's he's I forgot the star of Munich. I forgot
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: what was his first name, Eric Bana. Yeah, he's the
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Eric Banner of this. Sure, he's been tasked with dealing
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: with the perpetrators of this, and he's not always being
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: cool about it, right, which is the debate that has
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: come up, And it's kind of been a debate here,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: but not as much.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: No.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: Well again, like Americans are coming from a very different
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: I think mindset, even though we're reaching a lot of
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: the same points. Yeah, there's not the same history, but yeah,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: it's an interesting problem.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So this guy, Alexander de Morris looks like a
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: movie villain. Yeah, but in this case he's the good
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: guy maybe.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like an anti hero.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, there's one half of the country and this
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: is exactly what you would see in the United States, Right,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: there's absolutely no difference. One half of the country that
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: definitely praises him as a hero for all he has
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: done to put down the right wing threat. But things
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: he's done includes stuff like jailing people without trial for
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: posting threats on social media. He helps sentence a sitting
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: congressman to nine years in prison for threatening the Supreme Court.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: He has kind of we talked about this on the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: last episode. He's kind of granted himself the power to
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: just delete, censor, block any social media accounts, any social
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: media posts that he sees fit. And that's with like
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: no real room for appeal, no real transparency and why
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: it happened. And that does set up an obvious argument,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: which is like, well, okay, you're doing that in response
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: to the right wingers, right, so you're gonna like turn
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: that switch off when you've put this threat down or
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: when you're done investigating rights. You're not gonna like turn
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: that on leftist later. And it's like, of course they will.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I mean they might or they might not. I mean
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: it's a question. But like it is a thing. I
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: think it's very difficult to wrestle with because pretty much
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: the only proven way to stop fascism is to completely
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: eradicate it on the cellular level. Basically, you silence and
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: shut down as far as you can this sort of
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: thing and stop people from organizing. And like some of
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: the better Guys Zilla movies, they center around like the
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: idea of in order to defeat a monster, you have
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: to become like you might end up throwing away your humanity.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: And I do think that that is the quandary that
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: you run into when you're trying to squash a right
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: wing movement, is there's really only one way to do it.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also a huge quandary in that we're talking
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: about a government that has been leaning a little more
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: and more right wing. I mean, they had Bolsonaro in
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: office for a few years, so that's about his right
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: wing as it gets. And politics in Brazil seem to
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: move so fast, like there's no guarantee Lula is even
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: going to see the end for sure his term. Any
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: number of things could happen, and especially in a place
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: like Brazil, I'd say to a less extent in the
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: United States, but especially in a place like Brazil. You
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: put something like this in place that government could flip
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: overnight out they have it in place, and now they're
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the ones who are like, no, absolutely, it's you fucking
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: communists who are trying to put your fucking drag shows
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: in our schools. Yeah, who are the real problem? And
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: now we're gonna fucking crack down on your posts. And
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: it's like, what do you fucking do? I mean, this
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: is you do?
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: That's the question. I truly don't have an answer to
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: this because I don't know that there is a right
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: answer in this situation.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Because the other thing is, yeah, you can ask, well,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: are you gonna like turn that ability off once you
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: don't need it anymore? And it's like these right wingers
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: aren't going anywhere for a long long time.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: No, And like with the way that these movements work
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: now again like the last not the last time, but
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm thinking about Italy and World War two
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: and Germany to along the same lines. Like these were
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: places where these ideologies had to be forcefully destroyed and
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: there were a lot of repressive tactics used, and I
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: don't know that the way that the information spreads now
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: if that would actually work even Yeah, Like I don't
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: know if you could be as repressive as you possibly
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: can be and stomp it out as much as you're
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: physically able, I don't know that that's ever gonna be
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: enough because even forties fascism is alive and well, yeah,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: it never really went away. So I have no idea, Like,
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: it's an impossible question.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: When you put stuff like this in place and don't
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: specifically say it's for right wingers or it's for fascism
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: or Nazis, let's say something like this. I mean, this
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: has happened in the United States to an extent, but
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: it's more like individual platforms banning people and then they
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: just move on. Twelve.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's happened on the government level as well.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: It's just been a very big deal every time, Like
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of like the uh Who Act and like
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: those sorts of efforts. So it's definitely happened, just not
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: quite to the same extent.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: And that would lead to my other concern with a
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: situation like this, because, yeah, let's say the American government
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: started going to this extent against right wingers in the
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: United States. I mean, it's never gonna happen, but let's
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: just say if they did, there would be a lot
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: of people Democrats, liberals who would support that obviously absolutely,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: And my concern and what I would say to people
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: who would like to vocally support that don't discount that
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: the American government could have more than one enemy at
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: a time, and they could be doing that to right wingers.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: But then let another really high profile police shooting happen,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and then that turns into protests, oh for sure, and
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: then the government starts doing it to them too. It's
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: going to be really hard to put your hands up
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and be like no, no.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: I mean again, this is why it's such a hard thing,
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: because what you really need to stop the problem of
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: right wing fascism is an extremely strong and capable left
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: wing government doing everything it can to alleviate the conditions
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: that push people into extremist views. And unfortunately that has
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: never happened, except like FDR is like the closest we've
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: ever gotten, and he was like a rich guy. So
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: we have never had that sort of thing where the
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: left wing has enough power to materially change the conditions
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: that people face that lead them to these groups that
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: will prey on them. Right, And that's the only way
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: that I could think of that would come close to stopping,
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: and even that would only blunt it as a populace
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: to it. You want to switch populism back to the left,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: is the thing you need to capture people in that way.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: But you know, just like after nine to eleven, like
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: it makes sense that people are they're scared and they
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: want to be punitive, but unfortunately that instinct, alike with
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: the Patriot Act, can really bite.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a complex situation, and like it's not like
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: having to talk doesn't mean you're siding with the Nazis.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Don't let anyone tell you that's the case. It's just
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: you gotta fucking Those are questions that are worth asking, absolutely,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: because an initiative like this could go sideways, yeah, really quick.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: It's the same thing with COVID surveillance, sure, where the
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: government was like, hey, you want us to watch your
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: phone and then watch all the phones around you and
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: we'll tell you if someone you.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: Know got COVIDA.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, are you gonna like stop doing
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: that later and they're like no, probably use it for
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: police shit after that. But still, you know, COVID is
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: a thing and you need protective and that's always a
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: thing we see is in response to a threat, people
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: will give a little bit more of their freedoms away.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: And sometimes that's the safe bet and sometimes it's not.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: But it's a gamble.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it depends on what you're talking Like, yeah,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: fucking if you're talking about wearing a helmet when you
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: write a fucking motorcycle, fuck you if you're mad about that.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: Same with like lockdown and all that stuff. Yeah, this
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: is different than Yeah, it's it's really messy. It's a
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: really complicated Like I really don't know if there's a
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: correct answer other than helping people, which is always the
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: right answer.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Depending on what side we'll help obviously.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: I mean help anybody. Everybody needs help.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: No, I mean there is one side that would say
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: that's not the answer.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: Well, sure, I mean yeah, that's absolutely no.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: No, you don't not help people because of the side
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: they're on. And I think the best example of that is.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Unless they're like doing actual harm. Like obviously there are exceptions.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: But well, like we did an episode about the East
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Palestine Ohio train derailment. Oh yeah, like that's a bunch
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: of fucking Trump supporters. But god damn, they are getting
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: fucked by the government. I mean, and it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Has way broader implications than just those people does.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: In what makes me so mad is the right wingers
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: aren't wrong. Those people are getting fucked over by the government,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: but not even remote in the way they're saying. I mean,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: and it's so much worse. This is what they're saying.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, this is what I'm saying about flipping
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: like populous.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I know we're on a tangent, but Republicans are absolutely
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: part of what's happening to the people in our East pallies.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: F they are the fucking diversion that's gonna keep people
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: from asking the real question, which listen to the pretty
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: scary episode about it. It involves dioxins. It's very bad.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Wow, should be a conspiracy episode maybe.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it probably still could be, Yeah, because the thing, that.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: Thing is gonna there's gonna be developments on that.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Well. One thing that's not getting reported on a ton
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: in the US media about it is one of the
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: concerns was that the fire the controlled burned was gonna
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: disperse dioxins, which caused cancer and all kinds of other
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: heinous diseases. It was gonna spread dioxin. And there's this
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: weird thing that happened in twenty ten where the EPA
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: wanted to lower the threshold at which dioxins in soil
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: are considered a thing that they act on, and Obama
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: shot them down, and so the threshold stayed where it
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: was Obama, and the disparity between that threshold is terrifying
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: because it's a thousand parts per trillion. The EPA wanted
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: it lowered to seventy two parts per trillion, and the
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: soil samples that the Guardian looked at seven hundred parts
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: per trillion. So according to the official government threshold, that
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: soil is safe, but according to what the EPA wanted
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: that threshold to be in twenty ten, it is ten
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: times worse. And there's states where it's a state level thing.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: California it's fifty parts per trillion, Michigan it's ninety. So
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: if that happened in either of those states, someone would
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: be acting and people would probably have to move. But
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: instead those people people are just gonna fucking live there
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: with cancer causing chemicals in their soil.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: And who knows what is getting put into the Ohio River, Like,
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, who fucking knows. It'll take a while for
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: us to fully understand.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: So this is still a developing store, even though we've
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: already invested two episodes worth of time into it. This
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: is still ongoing.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: One of the most recent updates is that JayR. Bolsonaro
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: has vowed to return to Brazil sometime this month March,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: to be quote the national leader of the Right.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: He's so high on himself it's disgusting.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And we'll link to an Economist article about this one.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: They point out there's a lot of pitfalls for him
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: if he decides to do that, most of them involving
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: the dozens of investigations into his various criminal activities. Sure,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: any of which that could potentially send him to jail
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: cost him a bunch of money.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: I'd probably just stay in Florida.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd stay in the United States.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: I'd stay on the Gulf side.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd go to like Hilton Head exactly.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Oh no, that's Atlantic though.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Oh oh no, No, I'd stay on the side he's on.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: You know, the golf is just nicer.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: I suppose it's a good beach anyway anyway.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Or like Beachinaro.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Wow, thank you got him.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: But the Economists also points out Bolsonaro is still shockingly popular. Yeah,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: and weirdly, in a huge departure from Trump, he is
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: the most popular with young people. Yeah, And that I
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: would argue is pretty scary for the future of Brazilian politics.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: In one recent poll, fifty seven percent of sixteen to
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: twenty four year olds said they would vote for Bolsonaro
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: if an election was happening that week. That is the
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: highest share of any age group in the poll. So
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: it's not just that young people like him. Young people
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: like him the most, which is shocking.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, I don't know, it's weird. Hopefully that's
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: a sample thing. Maybe that's just.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: That sample population.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. That sucks.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Well. There was another poll that showed nearly forty percent
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: of Brazilians think Lula did not win the election, and
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: that belief was shared most strongly among twenty five to
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: thirty four year olds.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: Dummies, what the hell?
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: And he's also just way better on social media than
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: sure Lula, Like it's almost like a Trump versus Biden thing. Yeah,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: very trumpy when it comes to social media. He's got
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: sixty five million followers. Yeah, Lula has thirty one million.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: I mean yeah, it's all very disheartening. Twenty five to
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: thirty year olds. What the fuck do you do? Thirty
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: four year olds? Come on, guys, be better.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: And he's still got all that support from the agribusiness
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: sector that he had before, and the economy has kind
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: of tanked under Lula, Yeah, which not necessarily his fault,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: but also it kind of like there was a boom
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: after COVID.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: Sure, even if it's not his fault, it is something
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: that people can.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Use, right, And so if it comes down to a
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: future election, and I think you're right, that's probably why
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: the military wouldn't get involved.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's not like.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Lula fucking mopped the floor with bolscenario.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: No, Like he's already gotten arrested once.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's no guarantee that margin he won by
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: is gonna hold. No, next time around, his best chance
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: of staying in power might be that Bolsnaro comes back
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and either goes to jail or is banned from holding office.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: It would be interesting. I mean again, the Trump parallels.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Would very interesting.
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Interesting. Surely if anything happened, even if anything doesn't happen
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: with that stuff, I think we should do an episode
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: on the whole Trump indictment thing. Oh yeah, because like
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: if it happens or if it doesn't happen, there's something
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: weird that's going on.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot to dig into. Yeah, we'll do
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: an episode about that. But if any of his crimes
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: are going to keep him from returning to office, Bolsonaro,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: that is. I hope it's something insane like the Saudi
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: jewelry scandal that we will end by talking about, because
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: it actually seems like the least alarming thing Sure, Jayre
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Bolsnaro has done. Yeah, and that's not taking into account
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: just fucking being friends with Saudi Arabia.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, yeah, that's not a great sign.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, So. In October twenty twenty one, Brazilian customs
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: agents found a diamond necklace, matching ear rings, a watch,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: and a ring in the backpack of a government aid
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: traveling with the country's then energy minister. Value of the
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: jewelry in question three point two million dollars. That is
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of jewelry, and.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: The jewels were reportedly a gift from the Saudi government
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: to Michelle Bolsonaro Sure, the wife of JayR Bolscenaro. Jewelry
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: has been held by customs ever since, and the government
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: is investigating whether the former president broke the law trying
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: to bring them into the country without declaring money. Could
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: be the thing that keeps Gyr Bolscenaro out of Brazil
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: because he was supposed to pay some hefty taxes to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: bring something like this into the country from out of
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: the country. This is essentially tax evasion. Sure, and how
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: we got al Capone, I mean, but like I don't know.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, for one thing, it is definitely how we
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: got al Capone and like this mighty damage. But it's
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: just like, I don't understand how if you're a rich
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: person and you're doing rich people's stuff, like getting three
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: million bucks worth of jewelry from somebody, you don't have
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: any way of getting that in without worrying about customs
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: and taxes and shit. You can't figure that shit out.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: You gotta just put it in your carry on or whatever.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, No, you give it to your lackey a
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: of the energy minister, right.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: But I'm just saying, like getting like put it in
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: your fucking offshore bank account or whatever.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: You can't put it in his asshole or something. Have
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: him smuggle it in like heroin.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: Sure, maybe he could just wear it and then you
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: be like, this is just mine, I wear it. Yeah,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: that's what I would do.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is fake prove it's not right.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: They probably would.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: They would literally just seize it and prove that it
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: was real, and they'll keep it. I don't know.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: It's just also like you're also a corrupt government official.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: You can't fucking make this work. Like who's your enemy
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: in the customs department.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like a little bit of a targeted thing. Yeah,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: but also I love this part. Bolsonaro claims he never
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: intended to keep the jewels. This is a quote I'm
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: getting crucified for a present I never received. I've never
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: abused my authority. But then in the same press conference,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: he did concede that there was a second case containing
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: a watch, a ring, cut links, a rosary, and a pen,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: and that was all valued at seventy five thousand dollars
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: and that did get past cust.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: That's fucking bullshit. That's jump change.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: And he kept all that. But he didn't intend to
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: keep this. He was gonna let the aid so the
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Energy minister keep it. Sure you were, That sounds about right,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: And yeah, the tax money he would owe on this
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: alone might be I don't know. It seems like he's
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: got to have more money than that though, right, I don't.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, probably or connections with money. I just imagine
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: in my mind all sufficiently fascist politicians just have access
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: to loads of money. Yeah, because you're a good mouthpiece.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd be surprised if he doesn't. Yeah, And yeah,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe Saudi Arabia set him up. Maybe maybe,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: He's just really bad at this.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: I could see Lula or the Supreme Court, which woof
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: this episode's already pretty long, so I didn't put it
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: in the notes. There's a Wall Street Journal editorial about
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: the Lula government. They take a very different approach to
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: talking about Brazilian politicans.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Wall Street Journal has a slightly different.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Are They are not fans of the Brazilian Supreme Court whatsoever.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: And they and they're not a big fan of left
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: wing politician Lula.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: No, if you can believe it. Yeah, but yeah, I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: don't know. It's a thing that is still worth keeping
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: tabs on.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. It's just it's one of those things where it's like,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: similarly with our own situation, it's hard to know what
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: to do and you know what's going to happen because
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: all of the tried and true things. You know, we've
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: tried nothing and everything nothing works so right, and we're
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: all out of ideas. What was it the Simpsons, But
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: we tried nothing. We're all out of ideas.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that pretty much describes it, you know, And we'll
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: see how things develop with Brazilian politics.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: This.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I always say we'll keep tabs on this story and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I never mean it, but I got that subscription to
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: the Brazilian Report now, so well there you got to
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: use it and be getting my doors beaten down with
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Lula and Bolsonaro news. Yeah, and yeah, even if Bolsonaro
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: never goes back to Brazil, that's not going to fix
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: the problem. No, like if Trump disappeared tomorrow, that's not
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: going to fix the problem. Like who is Brazil's Ron
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: DeSantis gonna be?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Like that that face, Yeah a little bit. It does
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: kind of seem like that. But uh yeah, we'll keep
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: you updated everybody. In the meantime. I think that's our episode, Olivia.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Do you have anything to plug before we get out
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: of here.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: Well, we just finished season one of Going Back our
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Lost Street Watch podcast. We did, so that should be
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: public soon, not yet, but eventually.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: You'll know when it is.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: I'm addressing the people of the future. Sure, people of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: the future. It's probably out and we'll be studying and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: other than that. I guess you can find me on Twitter,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: but I don't really do it, so.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown dot substack dot com. Now that my
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: face is getting closer to being healed, I'll be back
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: to writing soon. And uh, you know, I'm gonna try
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: and do more episodes of the Conspiracy Pod going forward,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: so be on the lookout for more bonus episodes and things.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: And uh, beyond that, I think that's it. Let's get
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: the fuck out of here, Olivia say goodbye, bye, goodbye everybody.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: We love you. People.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Have a