Latest / Radically Genuine / 167. Telepathy, Near-Death Experiences & Past Lives: The Suppression of Post-Materialist Science
Transcript
- Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (00:01.73) Welcome to the Radically Genuine Podcast. I am Dr. Roger McFillin. In our last episode, Dr. Diane Hennessey-Powell shared something extraordinary. I was extremely moved by the episode, by her work. And if you have not listened to the telepathy tapes yet, I highly recommend that you explore that podcast and listen to the evidence. that non-speaking autistic individuals can communicate telepathically in ways our materialist science says is impossible. I felt an obligation today to speak more on the subject, maybe go a little bit deeper, explore not only her findings, but when it's combined with other groundbreaking research, it completely shatters our understanding of consciousness. mental health, and human potential. There's so much that's unexplored and there's so much that's kept out of mainstream science, mainstream media, which means that there's a lot of people who are listening to this podcast today who have never heard what I'm about to talk about as far as alternative ways of understanding. what it means to live in this reality, as well as hard science on aspects of near-death experiences, past lives. and other psychic phenomenon that really is unexplainable to those who hold the materialistic paradigm of scientific investigation. So I want to start with this. Imagine a two-year-old child in India begins having night terrors about drowning. He has an inexplicable phobia of water. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (02:06.134) And during Dr. Ian Stevens' investigation, this leads his parents to another village and identifies his previous family. He describes in detail how he drowned in a specific well, a death verified by autopsy reports. This isn't just a story, it's one of over 3,000 documented cases from the chairman of psychiatry at the University of Virginia. showing consciousness carries memories between lives. And at the same institution, Dr. Bruce Grayson, another pioneering researcher and professor of psychiatry, has documented thousands of near-death experiences that challenge everything we think we know about consciousness. One extraordinary case, a woman, is clinically dead on the operating table. no brain activity, no vital signs. Yet she later describes in perfect detail conversations that happened three floors up during her surgery. Grayson's rigorous research shows that these aren't hallucinations. These are experiences of consciousness continuing when the brain is inactive. Even more remarkably, Dr. Raymond Moody, A respected psychiatrist and philosopher who coined the term near-death experience discovered something that challenges our entire understanding of consciousness. He documented hundreds of cases where completely healthy people share the same near-death experience and also others who share the death experience of their loved ones leaving their bodies, accompanying the dying person and bringing back matching details of their journey. Not just grieving people, having wishful thoughts. These are trained observers, including medical professionals, who report consistent, verifiable details. For those who did pass, they tend to discuss very similar steps that occurred through that process of near death, which includes being able to observe their loved ones. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (04:25.216) and being able to understand conversations that are happening not only in that immediate space, but just similar to the previous research or Dr. Grayson's work, potentially conversations that were on another floor or with loved ones who were driving to a hospital. There's the similar details about like entering into like a tunnel and walking towards the experience of light, is experienced by the person as as loving, unworldly, like unearthly, like unable to describe it in any any language, any earthly language to describe the power of that light. And what is remarkable is that people who've undergone these near death experiences also describe what's called a life review, where they experience their entire life over again, in an instant. where there's no time or space, so the experiences are articulated in different ways, but the entire life is, again, reprocessed and experienced by the individual, but here's where it stands out, the life review is also experienced by everyone who experienced you, like this rapid downloading of information and learning. So let me put these findings into context with what Dr. Hennessy Powell has discovered. She's documenting that autistic individuals are accessing this shared experience of consciousness on what they call the hill, communicating telepathically with verified accuracy. And what that means that there is an autistic kid in Atlanta verifying this experience of the hill and talking to other autistics from around the globe, for example, in Italy. Also under controlled conditions, these children demonstrate abilities that our current scientific framework would say are impossible. Yet just like this research of Grayson, Moody, Stevenson, mainstream science chooses to look away rather than question its fundamental assumptions. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (06:50.722) which in my opinion is anti-scientific. It is the search for truth. And I want today's podcast to be asking questions. What is the harm in asking questions? Everyone has their beliefs, their assumptions, but if science is the search for truth, then when we have evidence that in any way disregards our previous knowledge, we have a professional responsibility and ethical responsibility to investigate what that may mean. This convergence of evidence forces us to confront some profound questions about consciousness and in my field, mental health. If consciousness can exist beyond the brain, if it can carry information between lives, operate when the brain is inactive, and be shared between multiple observers, why do we assume all unusual mental states represent brain dysfunction? So throughout human history, experiences we now rush to label as mental illness were once recognized as profound spiritual encounters. Moses receives divine communication through a burning bush. The Buddha teaches that our normal reality is actually a limited state of consciousness. Jesus speaks of a kingdom within that transcends ordinary perception. More recently, the psychologist Carl Jung, bridging ancient wisdom and modern psychology viewed psychological disturbances as opportunities for transformation rather than purely pathological processes. And if you follow my work, that is something that I argue for, is to see the range of experiences that which will occur in our lifetimes to see them as opportunities, even the painful ones, to see profound emotional challenges, be opportunities for transformation and to see our experiences, including those of painful emotions like loss, grief, depression, anxiety, to see them as vital signals. Yet today we automatically pathologize these experiences and I want to be clear how new that is. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (09:20.856) That is a modern invention. One that was not necessarily identified even 50 years ago. Someone who reports hearing voices or having visions, our immediate response is to label it as psychosis, a break from reality. But I think the imperative question is, well, who's reality? The same medical establishment that once dismissed near-death experiences still does, as hallucinations has been proven wrong. I mean, what else might we be missing? I have met with countless individuals who have reported having perceptual disturbances, maybe hearing voices, having a vision, certain powerful dreams that altered their understanding of reality, who would be afraid to mention these to a medical professional trained under the current model because they would quickly be labeled as mentally ill. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (10:34.882) Let me share something deeply disturbing about our current approach. We're taking chemicals created in laboratories, never before encountered in human evolution, and using them to forcibly alter brain chemistry. We call this medicine, but it is a profound experiment on the human brain and thus consciousness. Consider anti-psychotic drugs. They certainly don't correct any imbalance. They actually induce one. They forcibly block dopamine receptors with chemical compounds made in a factory. And this in itself dampens consciousness. Now I'm not saying that there may not be a place in emergency medicine for the short-term use of these drugs, but let's call them what they are. They're somewhere on a continuum. of trying to chemically induce a different state of consciousness. Now, if somebody is extremely frightened or detached to a point where they risk a danger to themselves or someone else, there is a place for emergency medicine. I've never argued against that, but that's not how they're marketed. That's not how they're discussed in popular culture. That's not certainly not how they're prescribed. They're prescribed to conditions and people who aren't even experiencing. breaks in reality. The arrogance around this is staggering. mean, we're talking about the most complex system known to science, the human brain, and believing we can improve it by crudely manipulating neurotransmitters with synthetic chemicals. It's like trying to fix a quantum computer with a hammer. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (12:26.274) We all have to be asking the challenging and difficult questions instead of just blindly following whatever the dogma is at our time and of our lives. Let's look back at history. Medical science often is wrong. In fact, that's the evolution of science in its search for truth. We have to be willing to ask difficult questions and set up experimentation. and think outside of the limitations of our minds. Now let me share one of Dr. Powell's most revolutionary insights, one that forces us to question everything we think we know about human development and consciousness. I asked her in the podcast about the dramatic rise in autism rates. What I've what she suggested the way that she answered it I think is profound. We've created an environment that human consciousness was never potentially designed to handle. I think her exact words were, children today are born into an unnatural world. And think what a developing brain faces today, developing child. From the moment of conception, they're bombarded by tens and thousands of synthetic chemicals. Dr. Powell shared in our interview that when we test umbilical cord blood, for example, we find chemicals that never existed in human history. Our children's brains are developing in a soup of artificial electromagnetic fields, processed foods that destroy crucial gut bacteria, pesticides that cross the blood brain barrier, microplastics that have invaded every level of our food chain, pharmaceuticals. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (14:23.85) and mother and child are receiving medical interventions, vaccinations that have never been part of human evolution. with the consequences of such being unknown. What we do know is dramatic rises in neurocognitive disorders, chronic health conditions were deteriorating. We've been poisoned as a culture and then there is an impact. But here's where her insights become truly revolutionary. And these are important questions. What if in some cases, autism doesn't necessarily represent a disorder at all, but rather adaptation? What if some brains are rewiring themselves to function differently in response to this radically altered environment? Let me share a specific case from Dr. Powell's research. She documented a non-speaking autistic child who could accurately report conversations happening in other rooms, access information they had no physical way of knowing, and communicate telepathically with other autistic individuals in like this shared field. And these weren't vague claims. These abilities were demonstrated under controlled conditions with multiple witnesses. Again. the telepathy tapes, you can follow this research. This forces us to ask, are we pathologizing evolutionary adaptation? When we see an autistic child who appears disconnected from our world, could they actually be tuned into frequencies of reality that we have yet to measure or understand? When we rush to treat these differences with powerful psychiatric drugs? Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:17.612) Are we potentially interfering with the evolution of human consciousness itself? Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:25.282) The tragedy is that instead of investigating these possibilities, our medical system rushes to suppress anything different from our limited definition of normal. We're potentially interrupting natural adaptations we don't understand, forcing developing brains to conform to an outdated model of consciousness in an increasingly unnatural world. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:55.348) I in particular have been outspoken against the pseudo-scientific label of ADHD. I think that's a great example of we take somebody who is not adapting to one specific context, one which I would say is outdated, for the most part it's the traditional public schooling or the way we approach academics in the United States. And when children struggle in the confines of that environment, We want to label them as abnormal. Yet these same kids can walk outside a classroom and skateboard and hit a baseball and display a range of other talents. But if they can't focus their attention on specific domains that other people believe are critical, how quickly we are to label and drug them. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (17:55.15) personally believe that they in all likelihood they do exhibit advanced skills in other areas that we should be nurturing, that we should be understanding. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (18:11.544) We're forcing brains to conform to an outdated model potentially. I mean, this connects directly with what we're seeing with the rise in various neurological and psychological conditions. We're quick to label these as disorders. But what if they represent clear attempts to adapt to an increasingly toxic world? Nobody would debate that to be the fact. The evolution of consciousness, under this environmental pressure, and there are new perceptual abilities that are developed. And this shifts in how human awareness interfaces with reality. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (18:55.288) Now this is my problem with modern psychiatry. I mean, what is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. I mean, how often are we gonna continue to go down the same road in how we think about mental illness and how it's treated? I want to share a story about my work with people who have had perceptual disturbances, visions, voices, hallucinations. Yes, they often occur in response to stressors, but I don't see them as disordered or illness. So my response to my client who is experiencing that is probably vastly different than the typical psychologist or therapist or definitely a psychiatrist. Because I have a belief, and I think it's supported by sound science, that a person's relationship to that experience is what matters. So if there is fear cultivated around it, if somebody believes they are losing their mind, I think they can become very, very dysregulated. It can impair their ability to sleep, to connect to the now. what we would call reality to kind of diffuse from that experience and understand it from a different perspective. And I think they're more likely to become really impaired by that. And potentially that could turn into a chronic condition. My belief is you enter into psychiatry, we are turning episodic conditions into chronic ones. But what if we took another approach? Like what if we taught the ability to observe those experience and understand that they're potentially meaningful? What if they're useful in adaptation to stress? And do we completely ignore the possibility that people have these gifts and this ability to connect to higher states? Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (21:02.56) in higher vibrational states. I mean, we have to be able to face and accept the reality that in other cultures, the same events would be looked at differently. potentially even nurtured. The hubris of believing that we can improve consciousness by artificially manipulating the brain with synthetic chemicals. Think about what we're actually doing. We're taking these compounds, creating them in the laboratories never before encountered in human evolution and using them to fundamentally alter brain chemistry. We're calling this medicine. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (21:47.502) Let's look at SSRIs or the marketing term antidepressants, the chemical imbalance theory. They're based on obviously debunked, yet we've convinced millions of people their natural human emotions represent a brain disorder requiring these drugs. We're suppressing the brain's natural regulatory mechanisms. We're creating mass dependency. We're making it impossible for people to navigate their emotions without these drugs. we're assuming this natural process, ones that we label as clinical depression, I will say it's a natural process, is somehow an impairment in a normal process of living instead of seeing it as an adaptation, a potential for transformation. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (22:39.15) You know, I'm concerned what we're doing to developing brains too. Like when you prescribe these powerful drugs, sometimes in combination with each other, to developing children and adolescents, we're altering how their brains are forming. I do believe we are interfering with natural processes. We have no idea how this interferes with natural development or the emergence of consciousness. We have to be very, very careful about what people label as progress and how haphazardly these chemical modifications are handed out to some people in very vulnerable states. The pharmaceutical industry has convinced us that natural human experiences, the range of emotions, which I see as energy, altered states of consciousness represent something broken within the brain. This is not science, it is marketing. And it's leading to a massive experiment on human consciousness with consequences I think we're only now beginning to fully understand. And so think about this in terms of Dr. Powell's research. consciousness might be fundamental rather than emergent from brain activity. If true, and I think the evidence is undeniable, these drugs aren't treating any disorder. They're actually interfering with how consciousness interfaces with physical reality. We could be chemically suppressing natural processes of psychological and spiritual development because they don't fit our limited materialist framework. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (24:31.48) So these are the hard questions that would need to be evaluated and that you'd have to ask any mental health professional or physician who is throwing this label at you or a family member and prescribing these drugs. What are the real long-term effects of chemically altering consciousness? Are we creating more harm than good with our rush? quote unquote, medicate the human experience. And how many natural healing and growth processes are we interrupting? I want to ask the question of why we are so afraid of it. Why is our culture so afraid of the struggle, the pain, the episodes, the difficulties in life? When I asked Dr. Hennessy Powell, do you believe that there is a spiritual battle that is going on, a spiritual war? definitively said yes. Now what does that mean? I think people are going to see it in their own religious framework or their own spiritual or cultural framework, but from a non-materialist perspective, we recognize that there is an existence outside of the physical body, the five senses. Now what is that battle that could exist with good and evil? I can't help but try to understand intent. When we are mass poisoning the human race, when we are forcing medical interventions without safety, without efficacy, and we are experiencing unprecedented rise in chronic health conditions, which certainly appear to be directly correlated with industry's desire for greed, control. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (26:35.97) I think it represents what a lot of people feel, a profound emptiness that we could be lied to, to the extent we're lied to, or the way that our own consciousness, our understanding of reality can be influenced by media. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (26:54.594) When you understand that people are purposely harmed, listen, we all understand we face a planet where there's war and prejudice, assault, all types of trauma. It's painful. How do we understand these experiences in our lives? And when they happen to others, how do we make sense of this? And if there is a perpetual kind of journey in which the light and the dark aspects of the human experience are in conflict, and when we move closer to love and create in love, that we solve the problems of humanity, and we understand that evil occurs, and there's a perpetual battle that is biblical, that has been discussed in traditional texts. across cultures, across religions, from spiritual masters. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (28:01.196) And if we can create in consciousness, that means we have powers that we have been unable to fully incorporate in our lives. We know they exist, we know psychics, mediums, documented. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (28:17.122) When we examine the research Dr. Hennessy Powell has done with savants and autistics, it's very clear of the abilities that we are evolving into. And I've, on this podcast, discussed spiritual experiences and the awakenings in my own life and with clients. And I honestly do believe that we have an ability to influence each other energetically. How is that done? Prayer, cultivating compassion, sending blessings. When I've altered my experience by entering into that state of being, I see shifts in my clients. Have I done that experimentally? Have I created controlled conditions? No, I haven't. I do believe that we have powerful abilities to shape our own reality. And we talked about in the last podcast, we do have to detach from kind of the matrix, everything that is sent to us in popular culture and media and education and from our parents to be able to slow that mind down and to create, to connect to a greater field or connect to God. I similar words are different words to describe similar processes. So, I'm speaking today like outside of my Christian faith, knowing that there are people from all different types of perspectives who are probably listening to this. So, people understand God in different ways based on cultural context and their own teaching and their own experience. Sometimes, you know, God is nature, God is everything, God is universe, God is source. Brothers, God is a man in the sky with a beard, right? Understanding it just through our own kind of knowledge of what a human being looks like or what a human being is experienced, because we are limited by our experience. And so, as we conclude today's exploration, let me add another crucial layer to... Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (30:37.512) Schopenhauer's insight, I said this on the beginning of the last podcast, this great quote by Arthur Schopenhauer, all truth passes through three stages. First, it's ridiculed. Second, it's violently opposed. And then third, it's accepted as self-evident. So, where are we in this process? There's violent opposition to some of the things I talk about on this podcast. And we live in a media-driven culture that shapes and constrains our understanding of reality itself. The materialist paradigm isn't just defended by science, it's reinforced daily through our screens, our education system, the entire cultural narrative. And think about how we've been conditioned ourselves. The media presents a purely materialist view of reality, where only what can be measured and quantified is real. We're in a secular society. Consciousness has become reduced to brain chemistry and spiritual experiences are explained away as delusions. The metaphysical, the energetic dimensions of existence are dismissed as, if they are primitive superstitions. We're surrounded by a culture that stripped life of its mystery and deeper meaning. And success is defined by material acquisition. which ultimately leads to a chronic sense of emptiness in my opinion, which we label then as a brain disease. Happiness is something to be achieved through consumption and death is the final end. I think this narrative serves power structures and profit margins, but it leaves us profoundly disconnected from the deeper truths about consciousness, that mystic spiritual teachers, Jesus and now researchers like Dr. Powell are revealing and discussing. As Schopenhauer noted, all truth passes through these three stages. It's first ridiculed, finally opposed, and then it's accepted. But today, I think there's another mechanism at work. The deliberate shaping of reality through media and culture prevents us from even considering alternatives. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (33:02.284) So let's kind of reflect back on the evidence that we discussed today and how it's treated in mainstream media. How much information are you getting about near-death experiences? Probably none. Are you even aware? Like all of those people out there who've ever spoken to a therapist, any therapist, psychologist, physician, mental health professional, how much information do you really get on what happens to people who are clinically dead and their soul returns to their body? How about the telepathic abilities? discussed in the work of Dr. Hennessy Powell. Amongst others, there's a wealth of scientific information about telepathy. How about past life memories? Are they just treated as childhood fantasy? Are they easily dismissed? Spiritual experiences pathologize as mental illness. Consciousness beyond the brain, ridiculed as unscientific. This isn't just about scientific opposition, it's about controlling the narrative of what's possible, what's real, what constitutes valid human experience. When we limit consciousness to brain activity, we limit human potential. When we dismiss the spiritual and energetic dimensions of existence, we're trapping ourselves. in a view of life that can never explain the profound mysteries of consciousness that researchers like Powell, Stevenson, and Grayson are documenting. But perhaps we are reaching a tipping point. Despite the materialist narrative promoted by media and culture, people are having experiences that can't be explained by the conventional paradigm. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (34:56.664) They're encountering aspects of consciousness that transcend physical reality. They're discovering capabilities that shouldn't exist. The truth about consciousness is that it's emerging, not just through research, but through direct human experience. And no amount of media conditioning can forever suppress what people know through their own awareness. And the question is, will we have the courage to challenge these ideas? and the narratives that keep us sick and dependent. I think it's time to reclaim our understanding of reality. So all of those who feel connected to God, Jesus, something greater than you, the passion that exists within your soul, those of you who see life as a necessary journey of learning and growth, that brings you closer to the divine. and sees your challenges not as evidence that there's something broken within you, but instead as evidence that everything is right within you. That's why I love the research on post-traumatic growth. We tend to talk about these psychiatric diagnoses as if they're medical conditions, when in fact, there's so much evidence. that supports what happens when someone gets through the challenge. The aftermath of that trauma, the aftermath of loss, facing a fear. It does really shift your understanding of your own life. But if you avoid that process, or you try to drug it, or you adapt into a new reality that has been shaped to you by the mainstream, medical establishment or even a therapist, then you're adopting a limiting view of your potential. I think it's really important to support the work of the what's called post-materialists. I want to know about the person who has skills in mediumship. I want to know about the people who experience their emotions really, really intensely and possibly. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (37:13.122) that reflects an energy that they're able to experience with those around them. Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's a lot that exists that we don't see, including the electromagnetic fields that are presented through us through technology and our devices. We don't see radio waves. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (37:39.788) And then when you go back to past life experiences, scientifically validated, who's to say what we experienced in this life isn't experienced from another one? How many people go into therapy for these problems in relationships, these neurotic experiences, these phobias and so forth, and it's just automatically assumed it had to be learned in this life? How sure are you? Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (38:06.262) If past lives exist, then isn't it possible that all those lives where our consciousness is just shifting forms and in this process of evolution that can be brought into the next life? Can you so quickly dismiss that? I know the things we don't understand, we tend to not want to think about or just, you know, flat out deny. And I can't answer the question. I'm just like you listening. I'm asking the question though. I think the questions are important. Because if we challenge everything we know, well then we're dangerous to the power structure in the way that it is. The way that exists. Remember, the manner in which it exists, there are a lot of people who benefit from the system. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (38:59.82) The entire mental health industrial complex works off of a model that you go through life, you struggle, and you rely on either the medical professional or the therapist to course correct, to receive treatment in the same way you'd receive treatment if you had another medical condition. I think that's a faulty model. I think it's a harmful one because let's face it. The person that you're going to see, the therapist, the psychiatrist, are they without challenges? Are they without struggles? Can you absolutely confirm and trust that that person knows the way? What about our culture? What about the direction and the path that we are on as Americans, for example, or in Western cultures in any way suggests that we are improving our ability to respond to the challenges of living? Where is there data that suggests We are improving the spiritual, mental, emotional health of people in our culture. And where is there evidence to say this power structures that have developed serve humanity? They don't, it's the opposite. So don't we have a responsibility to question them and to consider what we can do to improve humanity? If there is a collective consciousness that exists. We are tapping into a greater field. We are all connected in some ways. And I think the, you know, the people on this planet in these lives who we feel like care about us are moving us closer towards ways of easing suffering and growing and love and compassion. Like all of us have a responsibility. That's part of the spiritual warfare that exists. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:01.954) And when we see evil or we see power structures that do harm and we don't call them out, we don't challenge them, we don't try to create something new, well then we become part of that same power structure. We are complicit. Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:28.174) So following up on last week's podcast, and please listen to that podcast if you haven't, if it doesn't make you think, then you might be afraid to think otherwise. We are all controlled through our exposure to culture, media, education, and our family. That's another way to look at consciousness is that everyone's living a different reality because their exposure is unique. But our collective exposures in our own cultures are similar. So we speak similar languages, use words, understand what is going on day to day. We're living similar lives in that respect. But just think about how it's transformed radically human evolution. The difference between the year 2025 and 1925 is vast, dramatic. The lives of the person in 1925 don't even resemble the lives in 2025. That is evolution. That is an adaptation. What you think in 1925 is only what is available to you in consciousness. But once you get exposed to a different reality, there's an expansion of the mind and possibility. So where might we be in another 100 years? And it takes humility to accept that. But I think what we do know, and this is kind of my final point on this podcast episode, is I really do believe in a intelligently designed natural order of things. And we have been... Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (43:27.658) impulsively, recklessly interfering with that natural order to very detrimental consequences. And so we have to certainly question what is represented as progress, what is represented as medical progress, what is accepted as safe or effective. Not because we've investigated ourselves. not because we know the details, but just because it's been repeated over and over again. I think that's the value of where we are right now, is that we are questioning paradigms that have existed but created harm. So I want to thank everybody for joining me today on this exploration. Until next time, please. Make sure that you have radically genuine conversations with family, friends, coworkers, and professionals that you work with. Because it is only through those radically genuine conversations and asking critical questions will we advance our understanding of how to serve humanity, each other, and be able to deal with the inevitable pain that exists in this life. Happy New Year.