Latest / Pharmacy Podcast Network / Rewriting the Script: Pharmacogenomics in Pharmacy’s Future with Dr. Vanessa Lesneski | Precision Medicine Pharmacist Podcast

Transcript

Rewriting the Script: Pharmacogenomics in Pharmacy’s Future with Dr. Vanessa Lesneski | Precision Medicine Pharmacist Podcast · Pharmacy Podcast Network

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to another episode of the Precision Medicine Pharmacist on
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: the Pharmacist Podcast Network. I'm your host, doctor Melissa Smith,
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  Speaker 3: and today we are diving into a critical and exciting
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: conversation about the evolution of pharmacogenomics and what it means
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  Speaker 3: for the future.
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: Of our profession.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Our guest is a true leader in the space, doctor
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  Speaker 3: Vanessa Lesnewski. She is a pharm d and a dedicated
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  Speaker 3: educator at the Lee Coom School of Pharmacy and a
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  Speaker 3: pioneer in the implementation and innovation of PGX and clinical practice. Together,
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  Speaker 3: we'll explore how pharmacy education is adapting and what new
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: career paths are opening up, and why now more than ever,
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: pharmacists must take control of their role and guiding in
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: the interpretation and application of this genetic data. Vanessa, you
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  Speaker 3: are a dear friend to me, but also is an
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: honor to have you on this episode today.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: So first of all, welcome.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: Oh yes, I'm happy to have you here.
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  Speaker 3: Give a brief overview and just introduce yourself to the
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: audience because I'm sure that they are wanting to hear
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: a little bit more.
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  Speaker 2: All right, So I am doctor Vanessa Lesnaski.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I started my pharmacy journey at the University of Florida,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: got my doctators there Gators, and from there I did
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: a little small stint in retail, but that wasn't quite
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: for me, which honestly was surprising because I had waited
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: tables a lot before that, so I thought that that
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: was going to be a good fit.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: But you know, love when you learn.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So from there, I had the awesome opportunity need to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: work for a pharmacy benefits manager. I mean, I did
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of their escalated cases as a clinical pharmacist
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: for them, so that was super fun and that really
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  Speaker 1: just kind of ignited my passion for like diving in
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: deeper for patients. From there, I had a very exciting
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: opportunity to work for a startup in pharmacogenomics. And what
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: had happened was my mom's friend's sister was sitting next
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: to somebody on an airplane.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: So sometimes it is not what you know who you know.
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  Speaker 1: I think you need to have the way really, So
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  Speaker 1: I entered the world of pharmacogenomics kind of like on
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the spot. I really just did a lot of digging
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and learning on my own and jumped in as a
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: subject matter expert for.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: A startup company. And we had a lovely run.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: But we were a startup company and you know, things
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: shifted as far as the payment reimbursement goes, and unfortunately
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: that company kind of collapsed. Eventually it morphed and then morphed,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and but you know, the vision is still alive. And
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: as from there, I went to and worked for compounding pharmacy,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: which was super fun for all your pharmacists out there, Like,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: if you were trying to find something that as you're calling,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: definitely take a look at compounding. That was super fun.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. It was like being a cook
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in the kitchen.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: You know, and your technicians are your lifeline there. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: didn't really know their stuff, so that was that was
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: really fun.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: But I got to set up a nutrition program for them,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: so I had a really fun little wormhole there.
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  Speaker 2: So now I've got two wormholes. I've got pharmacogonomics and
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: a nutrition wormhole that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I have gone down and a friend of mine suggested
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that I come work with her at Lake Erie College
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: of Osteopathic Medicine in their School of Pharmacy in Bradenton, Florida.
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  Speaker 1: So I was like, well, that sounds interesting and different.
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  Speaker 2: So I kind of jumped.
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  Speaker 1: In and I started there and I've been there for
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: eight years and I have done a couple of fun,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: interesting things. I started an elective that's super unique. It
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: was the first one of its kind and in the
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: United States.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And functional medicine, but that's not what we're here to
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: talk about, no.
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  Speaker 4: But it is applickable, it's appliable there ye, So, like this.
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  Speaker 1: Concept of personalized medicine is really out there, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: that's part of what functional medicine is. And so for
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the people that are listening, functional medicine, the quick and
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: dirty definition is it is looking at the root cause
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: of disease. So why is your patient, you know, why
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: are they having the issues that they're having, What is
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: actually causing that? And how do we reverse it? Support it?
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  Speaker 1: You know, change and.
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  Speaker 3: The DNA is a very foundational cause, right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So strangely enough, my two little niches.
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  Speaker 1: Fit together really nicely because at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 1: everybody's an individual, right, Like you and I could go
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: out to a restaurant and we're going to order something
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: different off the menu because we're different people. So we're
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: at the same restaurant, we're having the same experience, but
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: we're eating different foods, so we're all different. So that
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: kind of like both of those things marry very nicely.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: So anyways, so yeah, So then circling back forward, I
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: had that wonderful experience working with the genetics company, so
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I brought that experience with me to teaching, which the
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: students really enjoy hearing about that. So at that company,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: to kind of go backwards, that company was really trying
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: to give doctors an actionable report because you know, a
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: genetic report is kind of.
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  Speaker 2: Rough to read.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, So so that's kind of like where I am.
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  Speaker 1: So I've spent the last years in education, which is
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  Speaker 1: I think phenomenal. It's a perfect fit for a lot
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of pharmacists because we are constantly educating patients on what
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: it is that they need to take from their medication
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and what they need to do with their medications. So
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: we are natural educators. So I've really enjoyed it being
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: an educator. So yeah, that's my story is gone along.
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  Speaker 4: It's a great story.
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  Speaker 3: It gives perspective that you don't always you know, land
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: where you think you're going to when you initially start
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: your career. You've got to be able to be adaptive
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: and pivot and explore other options to make yourself that
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: much more rounded and capable as a pharmacist as well.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: So that's so cool. I'm glad you shared that. But
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  Speaker 3: you also within teaching you provide pharmacogenomics within the curriculum
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  Speaker 3: and that's correct, yes, correct, So.
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  Speaker 1: The there is you know, for the accreditation process, one
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: of the requirements is to include some pharmacogenomics. Now, the
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: accreditation process, the body that governs that, they're not very
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: very specific about exactly what needs to be in the
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: curriculum as far as pharmacogenomics, but it does need to be. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: So you know a lot of schools undergone curriculum changes
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: we did in twenty twenty one, I believe, and you.
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  Speaker 2: Know we've gone to this module program.
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  Speaker 1: Our previous curriculum had a scandalone to credit course in pharmacogenomics.
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  Speaker 2: Now we have the pharmacogenomics.
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  Speaker 1: Built into each module for the different disease states. But
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: then we also have like a little bit of introduction to.
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  Speaker 2: Genetics in our early first year.
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  Speaker 1: Classes, and then it is also built into some lectures too,
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  Speaker 1: so we still include it. It's just not a scandalone course,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I would like to see that beefed up a little bit,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So that's probably my responsibility at least. Also, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: governing and we need to kind of I think pharmacists
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  Speaker 1: do need to take a moment and come together and
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  Speaker 1: stay with that.
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  Speaker 3: Looks for there's quite a few around the country, especially
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: getting into the PGUI two rotations for pharmacists as well,
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  Speaker 3: offering more of.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Those as well.
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  Speaker 3: So it's it's definitely becoming more of a concentrated focus
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  Speaker 3: and a specify and I see it becoming a specialty
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  Speaker 3: under pharmacy here in the near future.
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  Speaker 4: There's a lot of different things.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a double edged short.
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  Speaker 1: That's funny that you bring that up, because that was
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  Speaker 1: one of the things on the list of questions that
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  Speaker 1: you had about the training. So you know, we have
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  Speaker 1: a lot of board certifications already, so I could actually
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  Speaker 1: argue this both ways. So I do like the idea
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  Speaker 1: of pharmacists specializing in pharmacogenomics.
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  Speaker 2: I think that we need more knowledge and education out there. However,
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  Speaker 2: I worry that, you know, with with the cost of everything.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Increasing, pharmacy salaries are pretty much staying stagnant, which is.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's a good salary, but you know, you have
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: to be careful.
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  Speaker 1: And then when you start to get these different certifications.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: You have to pay for the update, the yearly update
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  Speaker 2: of those sort of Oh.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, different licensers require different different types of fees
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: and all types of continuing education around it too, yep.
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  Speaker 1: Right, so that that's just more money at somebody's pocket.
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  Speaker 1: And I just worry sometimes of all these certifications are
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit not to be negative, but a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of a business. Yeah, So I think we should
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  Speaker 1: be careful.
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  Speaker 3: It's in our intuitive nature as a pharmacist as well
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  Speaker 3: to already be incorporating this type of thought process in
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  Speaker 3: our verification. Right, So, thinking about the pharmacokinetics, we see
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  Speaker 3: it all the time. You see it when you're verifying,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: even at the retail level with omeprazol and cliputogrel. Big
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: interaction there for it not activating clip putogrel from the
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: twocent nineteen inhibition. So we're already got that concept. It's
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  Speaker 3: just remembering that concept as the genetics come into play.
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  Speaker 3: It's it's the same concept, it's just the genetic role
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: as opposed to the drudgia drug interaction role. But yeah,
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  Speaker 3: and this kind of leads me into exactly kind of
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  Speaker 3: your point there with like the cost of thing like
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: the cost of tuition, different things. We've seen a significant
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: decline in pharmacy school enrollment really and applications drop from
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: over yours a statistic around one hundred thousand and twenty
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: eleven to just around forty thousand by twenty twenty one,
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  Speaker 3: and the number of new graduates in twenty twenty two
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  Speaker 3: fell to a forty year look.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: So that's interesting.
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  Speaker 3: So what do you think aside from yes, cost is
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: a big one, anything driving this downturn? And how do
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: you see PGX potentially reigniting the interest in pharmacy as
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: a forward looking, tech savvy.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: Profession for pharmacists. It's a big question, right, yeah, cop it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, So let's first the part about you know, the
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: downturn in but that's that's really being driven by jobs.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, great, so I have sat on omissions for more
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: years than not at leak hom I adore.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you have a good perspective on this.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: It's my favorite committee. But it is a hard committee.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Is the time consuming, but it's it's really exciting committee
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: because I like to look at the applicants and you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the current students, and.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You get really excited about it. But and also I
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: also like recruit like recruitment too, like to do the activities.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: But so one of the one of the reasons, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: we've been seeing this trend for for longer.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Than the statistics have shown because those of us that work.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: In you see it.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Ye it.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So in twenty fourteen, when I work for the pharmacy
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: benefits manager, that entity, the local pharmacy that was was
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: here folded and we dumped three hundred pharmacists out into the.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Job market Campa Bay, yep market.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: So it almost flooded it. Too much availability and not
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: enough job availability, all.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Right, So what we're seeing is a result of automation.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So it started much earlier and then the trends are
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: catching up. So we you know, the the idea of
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: a pharmacist standing you know, in a pharmacy at the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: extra corner and the lick stick and poor, which many
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: pharmacists went and know what it means.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: But you know they used to lick the labels to
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: stick them on there.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, the on there right, and they would do them
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: with talk writers, right like I work with people who
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: who have you know recently, well not recently, but when
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I first started working, there a people that were talking
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: about that. It wasn't that long ago, so you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: there was so pharmacy feeling of prescription was very manual.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Now we have more and more automation to do.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That, right.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And then you know, when I was starting pharmacy, you
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: know the ninety days supply was only available through insurance companies.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Now we have those.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Available through any any pharmacy. So so the trends in
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the are changing.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Uh. There's just a lot of automation.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So you know, the manual labor aspect of it is
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: kind of going away. We've also changed the pharmacist of
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: tech ratios, yes, because there is is better ways of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: checking the prescription even if you're not the one filling it.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: So the aspects of that have been monitored have been.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Automated. Uh.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And so you know a lot of automation, a lot
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: of changing of the pharmacist's responsibilities.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: And honestly, pharmacists.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Now are being educated on the level of a clinician,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: but when we get out into the job market, we're
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: not being treated like a commission.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a four year doctorate program. I don't
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: have to tell you.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: But when that originally came about, the idea was for
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: pharmacists to be providers. So the fact that we didn't there,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: we didn't have like.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: The the the education level isn't translating into the jobs available, right.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Correct, So you know, so we.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I feel like this is where the PGAX element is
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: an opportunity for job growth, for pharmacists to be.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: Utilized as more of a clinician. I see where you're going, yes, And.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: I feel like I have a lot of people reach
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: out to me just in general about what I do
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: to be active in the PGX space and how I
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: am contributing and still able to apply the knowledge right
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: And I.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Tell them A lot of these jobs are on the
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: back end.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: A lot of them are with the report generation companies
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: and also with the laboratories themselves, helping to support the
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: providers who are ordering the patients who are receiving the
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: information as well and providing clinical counseling, applying it in
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: my own private practice as well as how I utilize
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: it the most. But I think in more and upcoming years,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: we're going to see a shift in that dynamic in
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: the pharmacist supporting a provider with the interpretation of these results.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: And we all know the reason for that is because
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: many of them are not trained and it's not their
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: fault to not understand this information. But we need to
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: align the stars when it comes to reimbursement at a
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: level like that for pharmacists to be paid for their
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: time to do this service as well.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: So that's where I.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: See the gap, and I'm sure you can appreciate that
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: whole level of conversation.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So total nail on the head, right.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So we have these pharmacists that are being educated on
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the level of the clinician, they're getting out of school,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and then they're fulfilling these roles that are are being
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: taken away by automation, and rightfully so, I mean they
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: are trying to.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Hire maybe filling the pills, you know what I mean.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: The pharmacist is a little bit I mean, but you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of clinical tools that they need
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: even a dispensing pharmacies needs I'm.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: Going to ask another end point where they need it.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: They're not fl filling their clinical roles.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: But there are those of us who want to practice
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: at the top of our licenses. As you can see
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: from my credentials, I do have a consultant pharmacist license
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: on top of my registered pharmacist license. In order to
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: be able to be at the top of my license,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I am on on file with the board or a
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: collaborative practice agreement. I don't currently have one in place,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: but you know, to be able to practice at the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: top of our licenses and give that give patients the
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: clinical expertise that we have, and the clinical expertise that
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: we have is that we understand the nuances of the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: different medications. So for example, you know your patient needs
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: a beta blocker, Well, which one? Which one you pick?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: You don't necessarily it may not be the right drug.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: It's not protocolo picking it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're picking the one where the where the salesperson
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: was just in the office like that may or may
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: not be the right It might be the right drug
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: for that page. Yeah, you know, but it might to say,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: and I do think that pharmacists should have that role
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: where we are either vetting or picking the therapy for
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the papient, you know, because we have the expertise to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: say that.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: And then when you pull in pharmacogenomics, so maybe pharmacogenomics
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: becomes our lifeline to say, hey, you really need us
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: on staff picking the fantasies because you know, in order
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: to apply pharmacogenomics. And I don't I mean, I don't
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: know what your viewership consists of, but if they.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: It's a it's a pharmacists and practitioners wanting to just learn,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: get more knowledge based, and just be up to snuff
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: with the information out there about it.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the pharmacogenomics that we have at our fingertips
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: right now is regarding metabolism. So you know, really at
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, you're looking at pharmacokinetics.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I do not anticipate a doctor to be able to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: have all the things that they've learned about diagnostic tools
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: and diagnosing a patient and evaluating a patient and hold
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: all that from a CoKinetic information and I can do that.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I'll over here on the pharma coconic side, right like,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: so you know, having that pharmacist at least way in
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, you know, this will work best for
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the patient based on the other medications they're taking, based
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: on their kidney clearance, based on their nutrition status, based
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: on their activity level, gender, even and potentially pharmacogenomics. So
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I do think that, you know, in order for us
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: to be thoughtful and individualized therapy, we do need to
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: make sure that pharmacists are getting paid for their time.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: There's no other way to make that.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's where I see the future going with it.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: And honestly, it has to be built internally within the
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: structure of the payment systems with the insurance companies, right,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: So it's.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not going to get any traction until we
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: start get paid for our time. However, if you noticed
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: insurance rates are significantly going up for a lot of
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: patients in the coming.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Year, didn't notice, I'm glad you brought it up.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I also am wondering if patients are going
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: to start to get and it's going to be patient driven.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: So patients start to get fed up with the cost
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of copays insurance premiums where.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: They might just go to private pay.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Forget to go to private pay, just pay for them themselves,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: in which case a patient may be willing.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: To pay us, you know, to do this for them,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: because it will.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I mean every study they've ever done when you insert
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: a pharmacist in the middle of her as far as
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: fulfilling a clinical role brings, brings down cost, increases better outcomes,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and decreases adverse effect events.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, definitely, we.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Have the data to back ourselves up for sure.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: And yes, I can't agree with you more on that.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And you know when'ts are hungry to learn these new things, right.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Well, yes, that's you brought me right into my topic.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I mean I just say the word pharmacogenomics and like
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: half the class's.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Eyes light up.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: Tell me more.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, it's exciting and it's it's it's it's it's
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: a nuance to pharmacy. So it makes us stand out,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, you know, doctors and nurses, they know
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: what a beta blocker is, and they know what a
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: beta blocker does.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: You know, we're the ones that know how beta blocker's metabolized, right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: So it makes us you know, it's it's unique to us,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and it just excites students and it's it's cutting edge.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: So I mean, but the same with functional medicine too.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I thought that students would think I was off my
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: rocker when I first started introducing little nuggets of functional
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: medicine in my lectures.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: And they love it. They just ask for more.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I had one course where I was supposed to be
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: doing an applex review. We did do our an applex review,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: but I've been talking about some of the other practical
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: applications of functional medicine, and it was flipids, yes, lolowl
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: iming fruit.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: And so the students were like, no, no, we want more.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: We'll just sit here. We don't care that we're over
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: on time. Yeah.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I can't tell you how many
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: students have reached out to me just to have just
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: a conversation with me about what I'm doing. How I
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: got into the space and just wanting more, wanting more
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: knowledge about how they can become more educated, even outside
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: of school necessarily. And that's kind of my next topic
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I wanted to segue into is there's there's just a
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: growing list of different pg X certification programs, right, so
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: we have ones from a s HP, a c CP,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: the ORX Genomics has courses, UF has the Mayo Clinic,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: and with the boards. We were talking test to Learn,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: Test to Learn yees.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Another one that's out There's there's quite a few.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: These are just a few that I was just naming.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: But we were talking about the Board of Pharmacy Specialty
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Practices as well.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: And and and it's being in the foresight.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: I think it's I honestly think it is something that's
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: coming into the near and to our reality very quickly.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: Here as far as becoming.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: A potential, it's been put in front of that board
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: a few times for it to become a specialty. And
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's this year that that that may
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: even be on the docket for that as well. And
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: so I want to think about what pathway would you
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: recommend for pharmacists or students who want to be, you know,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: become deeper in their knowledge and expertise of expertise of PGX,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: especially if they're new or transitioning from other clinical areas,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: so practicing pharmacists already out or student level base right,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: any any insight for them?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I will give the University of Florida College
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: of Firmacy Therapeutic Exams to answer, you're ready, Yes, it
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: depends yes.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: So it truly does depend.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: It depends on what the pharmacist goal is and what
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: they're wanting to get from the education and what they're
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: wanting to do with the education, right, are.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: They just curious and interested? You know so? And then
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: also timing do they want a live.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Experience in the learning? They want a pre recorded do
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: they want a webinar? So these are the things that
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that they have to ask themselves when they're evaluating these
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: different programs. I think all the programs you listed are
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: very good, right, I'm not familiar with the our ex
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Genomics one, I'll be honest.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, our ex Genomics has a one hour free CE,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I will say for anybody to take practitioner or pharmacists
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: to like. And they also have an eight hour certification
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: just a general overview of pharmacogenomics as well, so they
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: it has a higher level of teaching on it, but
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: also a free CE.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: So check that out if anybody.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: It would also be careful, like, you know, so when
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I first started as a pharmacist and you're doing ces
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and you're getting this and you're getting that. So some
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of these certifications, it's just that entity calling it a certification.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: So it depends on what they're after and what they
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: want to do with it.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: To be careful with the certifications because it's just that
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: entity calling it a certificate. If you want a true
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: board certification, that's that's through the Board of Pharmacy Specialties, right,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: which is what we were talking about there. Yeah, So
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: so be careful with that that, you know. A.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I think we're just getting foundational knowledge more than they're
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: getting in school is what people are hungry for.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: So I will these are multiple options.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I will put up there the University of Florida's Pharmacogenomics
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: UH certificate programs. They're really great if you are a
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: pharmacist in the state of Florida. The nice thing is
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: is those can count as consultant hours, so sometimes if
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: you have a consultant license, those are hard to find.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: They do have little mini courses, but they also have
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: a big, long like certificate course. They are not they
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: are my alma mater, but they are also one of
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: the ogs in from a COO genomics space.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I remember the first pharmacogenomics.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Type book that ever came out was full of University
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of Florida people, so that was pretty exciting for me
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: as an alone. But absolutely I would it.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Has the first pheno conversion calculator for two D six
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, so I like that one.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I would plug that one if you're asking me to
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: recommend one. But also, you know, look at what fits.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Your needs and your learning style.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: You know, That's one thing we talk about a lot
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: as advisors with our students at lee com is learning style,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: like when you're studying, what works best for you, And
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: that applies to see E's too, because see E's you're
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: spending money and you want to get the biggest bang
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: for your buck and retain that knowledge.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Personally, if I am you know, have something.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: That's recorded and I'm not like engaged with live people,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: sometimes I zone out and.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I have to back it up and it takes me
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: longer because I've zoned out. So knowing her learning style too, I.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Think that a lot of people are hungry even just
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: for context around people who are actually practicing in the space.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I attended Alive Forum Earl earlier this year with a
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: lot of the a lot of pharmacogenomic farms. This throughout
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: the United States and even internationally through Australia as well.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: We're participating in it, and it was just more of
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: presenting information in a forum that allowed people the context
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: of how you can apply pharmacogenomics in every different facet
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: of practice. So when we think about those different areas,
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I mean we can think about inbulatory care, hospitals, long
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: term care labs, and remote clinical or consulting jobs.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: So from your advantage point, where do.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: You see the most exciting opportunities right now in which
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: settings are truly embraced are really embracing pharmacogenomics in a
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: day to day clinical decision? I mean where I've seen it,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: you know, hospital space, yes, clinics, things of that nature.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Josiah Allen is.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: One within his hospital setting that implements that and also
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: provides that pgua I too residency program for pharmacists as well.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Let me look that up right.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Now because I'm going to give a shout out to
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: him because that's a big one for people to look at.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: But I want to hear from you too.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: So well, you know, I recently was able to talk
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: with some other universities recently and they they're not as
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: far as long as I expected.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: So I think it.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Depends on the institution, It depends on the setting. But
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I do think that you know, like I was talking
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: about how patients. You know, we have seen this uptick
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: of patients being dissatisfied with the current healthcare that they're offered.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: So I do see like some of these you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: one on one private pharmacists working with patients. I actually
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: think the community setting would be a really fun way
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: to do that. It's just how do you free up
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: some time for the pharmacist without overstressing them, because there
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: are are you overstressed? So that that's one area I think.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I have had a practice site a doctor's office for
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the last five years, and I really think embedding a
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: pharmacist into every doctor's office is the true exciting answer
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: to a lot of healthcare related issues. I think that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: they could incorporate pharmacogenomics. They could also incorporate monitoring tie
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: trading of drugs to optimal outcomes, catching adverse effects become
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: before they come serious become serious.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So I think.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Ambulatory care pharmacy is not something that really exists outside
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: of academia on a regular basis. I mean there are some,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: but I think that is the key to improving health care,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: improving outcomes, improving patient satisfaction, and also improving pharmacist satisfaction
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: with their day to day duties.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just a kind of full circle moment from one
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: of us talking about before too.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: Josiah Allen, he was out.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: He's out of Saint Elizabeth Healthcare in Cincinnati, Ohio. So
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: that's where the PGY two Clinical Pharmacogenomics Pharmacy Residency program
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: is located and he's.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: The director of that.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: So keep keep your students in mind for that. That's
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: another extension of them being able to pursue it outside
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: of school. Also, perfecting peds. Have you ever heard of
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: doctor Jenna Quinn with perfecting peds. She's a very she
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: specializes with utilizing pharmacogenomics that in that patient population. And
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: so that's a whole I mean, we think about our
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: young population, right and and implementing it there. And there's
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: different ways of incorporating the pharmacogenomics specifically with kids, right
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: because of just the nature.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: If you if you're a pharmacist out there and you're
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: interested in pharmacogenomics, like I mean, I literally taught myself pharmacogenomics.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I was teaching myself pharmacogenomics when farm GKV was this.
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: Like yes, you always tell me that it was like
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: hard to find get context about that.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: You were you started back with your with the company
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: that you worked the genetics company you worked with back
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: in what what year was that?
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: I want context around this.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: It was twenty four I think it was twenty fourteen.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: I probably twenty fourteen between that time frame it was.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was kind of around there. Maybe it was
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so early was back, is it right?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Back then? H what was that?
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: I said, early stages.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, there there was you know, there
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: was some pharmacogonal mixed education in pharmacy school back then,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: at least at the University of Florida Pioneer. But you know,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: it really wasn't anything that was talked.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: About too much.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I worked for a really great company prior to working
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: for the startup company, and they were doing some research
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: with two D six and too moxifen.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Way back then, there were because they had so much data.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, we we we did like we we.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Adjudicated about eighty percent of the prescriptions, you know states,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: So that was pretty.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess perspective on what's being covered as far
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: as the cost of testing, right right.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: So so yeah, so back then when I got the
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: connection to work for this startup company. I was like,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I need I have to learn more, and so I
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: just sat there and you know, absorbed everything I could.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Farm GKB, which is its own website now, was like
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: a website within a website, and that's where I got.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: A lot of information.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: They have a YouTube channel, which is kind of cool.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: They have lots of resources. If you are a teacher
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: like me and you need good graphics, they have beautiful
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: graphics for pathways. So I do recommend that website a lot.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Cpig is your other big website for fharmacogenomics. They do
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: put out guidelines, but the FDA does have a list
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: of medications that they recommend genetic considerations for a lot
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: of this stuff. There's not there's not a lot of
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: drugs that require genetic testing, but it is recommended for
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: more drugs than you would actually think. It's making it
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: into the package in sort. That is something that is
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: being pushed by the FDA to have that data. Be honest,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: drug companies don't want to do that data because it
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: pigeonholes them. If you do exactly on a drug and
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: you find that it doesn't work great in a population.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Plavix is your best example of this, then then they
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: can't service a portion of pack population, and they don't
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: like that exactly.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: However, it's more it's safe, better safety for a file
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: for selection for the patient.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: God forbid.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: They do have to do that now. So so that's
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: kind of you.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Know, so there are there are you know, entities out
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: there that are are housing this information and you can
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: you can learn a lot on your own without.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Even spending money on these certific certification programs.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and quite honestly, when I went through my process
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: of becoming more familiarized with PGX, that was kind of
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: a similar journey. I did do a certification course, but
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: my practical knowledge came from the practical use of it.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: It was actually applying it, counseling on it, and presenting
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: it in different forums to people so.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: They would understand how important it is.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: So back in twenty twelve, twenty fourteen, whenever I think
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: it was twenty twelve, thank you're right, twenty twelve, when
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I was working for the startup company, what our product was.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Was totally different than anything else in the market.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: It kind of arguably still is, and what it was
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: doing is it was marrying the pharmacogenomics with the medications
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: of the patient was actually taking. The doctor got a
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: real life, actionable report that was for that patient. Yes,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's not just your
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: pharma code, not just your genetics that are determining how
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: you handle drugs.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: It's also the other drugs.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: It's also you know, kidney liver function, nutrition status, gender
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: for some drugs. So you know, it was marrying all
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: that together and putting it in a piece of paper
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: for the position to know what that was very time consuming.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: We did those reports in Excel, so that was that.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Was the Now automation and AI have come into the
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: picture with all that, so it has definitely that there
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: you go with the more less burden but more clinical.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: We can look at the information as opposed to creating
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: the wheel.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Right if pharmacist, if pharmacists had gotten.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Reimbursed for our time in creating those reports like directly
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: like we like, we probably still would be doing that,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: And I think that's better, Like, yes, we can automate this,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: but for cost savings. But you know, sometimes you have
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: to ask us that the right thing to do and
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: and so sometimes I wonder is that the right thing
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: to do?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And I do think I do think it's helpful. But
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: I do think having this special sauce of a pharmacist.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: Oh yes, the oversight has to be there.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And even talking to a physician or talking to
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: a patient.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: Oh no, I think yes, they don't want to just
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: have something regurgitated to them from some automated PDF and
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of times when they're even reading it, they
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: don't even know interpreting it and understanding it is just
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: not translating. So when they can, and patients would rather
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: be speaking to a pharmacist in general, and physicians are
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: now becoming a lot more welcoming of that because now
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: that it's being asked of them to be ordering from
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: their patients more often and they're getting in these I
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: find more often than not it's a patient being having
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: the barrier of the provider not feeling comfortable with ordering
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: and then having to find it through different types of
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: labs that will provide it to them.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: And yes, it's a big barrier for them, for sure.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: It's a lot.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: There's a lot to bite off here, Definitely.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I just think I still think though that that pharmacists,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: you know, however you slice that, I do think in
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: order for us to take the next step in providing
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: patients better healthcare. I do think pharmacists just need to
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: be paid for their time and their clinical expertise.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: I can't agree with you more. I can't agree with
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: you more.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: That is something that I've been working towards for many years,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: now you more than me, but definitely many years in
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: the working.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: It'll it's coming.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: I see it on the horizon for us, coming on
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: sooner than later in my opinion.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: But I want to first of all thank you for
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: being on this episode with me today.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: You've brought such great insight into the space of academia
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: where pharmacogenomics is how you're providing that to your students
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: that currently go to LEECOM. We've talked about many different
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: facets of how it can be incorporated and next steps
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: for anybody.
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: Who may be interested in pursuing it as well.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: So I want to just conclude with that's bringing us
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: to the end of today's episode. I want to thank
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Vanessa for being on the episode today. You have been
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: a huge asset and bringing forth knowledge about where how
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: PGX is being implemented into the academic space for pharmacy students,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: and I just wanted to thank you for being here.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It was lovely
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: to get a chance to talk about this. I'm passionate
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: about pharmacogenomics. I'm passionate about.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Taking pharmacy to the next level. So thanks for having me.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, You're so welcome. I'm so glad you were able
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: to be here and to our listeners. If you're inspired
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: by today's discussions, check out are my shows notes actually
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: for links for these PGX training programs and certification opportunities.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: I wanted to leave those there for anybody interested in
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: furthering their education and pharmacogenomics and being able to start
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: implementing with your own patient populations. So until next time,
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I'm doctor Melissa Smith. Thanks for tuning in to the
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: Precision Medicine Pharmacist on the Pharmacist Podcast Network. Stay curious,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: stay innovative, and always be precise. Wh