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ITB: Going Inside Howie Roseman Changes To Become One Of The NFL's Best Draft GMs? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Inside the Birds is back. What's going on? Everybody? It's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Jeff Mosher Adam Kaplan.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Hard to believe, but we are one week away from
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: the NFL Draft first round, always, always, Adam, a big
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: event for the NFL, and for the purposes of this podcast,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: a huge, huge night in the last few years for
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the Eagles because for the most part, and I've thought
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: about this because and I even went back through I
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: started covering the team in oh five, you know, middle
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: of the Andy Reid era. Well, starting to get to
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the end of it. But I would say the Eagle
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: we are in an era of the Eagles doing the
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: best job they've ever done since I've covered the team
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: in the draft. As far as first round, Day two,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: they could improve on Day three, we talk about that,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: but day one and for Day two, I think it
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: was Howie who said at the end of the season
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: that he talked about fourteen, teen to fifteen guys they've
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: picked in the first three rounds are starters. The only one,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Sydney Brown, is not even with the team anymore. That's
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a really good track record, and we're going to talk
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: about that in this podcast.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna get through.
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: We're actually going to talk about how he's turned around
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: what we believe and from people we've spoken to, well,
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: I believe wouldn't have a pretty good idea of what's
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: happened here.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: And it's not just one factor. It's actually several agreed.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: And it's funny.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: I forget who said it in our our Patreon live
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: stream on Wednesday, and it's one of the factors I
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: wrote down is what someone brought up that he actually
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: and I don't know why, for like a decade they
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: ignored not just the SEC, but Georgia.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: And Alabama, so bizarre.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you know, people tease Howie about being
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: over correcting sometimes mistakes, but then they went absolutely crazy
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: with Georgia. It's just I don't know why. You can't
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: really explain it right, but you can't say the wrong.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: They've actually done phenomenally well in the SEC. Again, I
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: don't know that. I'm sure there were sometimes they wanted
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: to drafted those players in SEC but it didn't work out.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: But it's just ridiculous. But it's not just one factor.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: As we gonna we're gonna explain folks that there's some
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: stuff we've uncovered over the years. It's just you're not
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: gonna it's not on coaching tape, like you're not gonna
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: know this. It's stuff that's behind the scenes, which we're
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: going to talk about today.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I want to frame it this way, and
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: this is just my professional reporting experience because I really
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: tried to figure out what change when change?
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: You know, we're talking.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: It's one thing to talk to people and know, but
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: also to like put it in a bigger perspective. And
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I think some of Howie's early issues in the draft
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: were actually predating him even becoming the shot caller, because
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: to go back to when I started covering the team,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: this was two thousand and five, two thousand and six,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: and the Eagles were actually struggling. Andy's first drafts were
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: really good. But once he started to get the power
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: to become the shot caller and had Heckert as his GM,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: and they were really listen, these guys were great at
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: what they do, but they started to fall victim to
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: what we're going to talk about, the the reaching or
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: the going after certain traits that aren't tape evident, but
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you think are going to manifest because of certain athletic measurables.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: And we also know that Joe, Banners and the and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: the influence of analytics had a big part as soon
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: as they be you know, Jeffrey and Joe and Andy.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Analytics was a big part.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: But if to illustrate my point, Adam, you know, there
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: was a period there from like six seven eight where
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: your top three round like you're getting Buckley, Winston, Justice,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Chris Gokong trade out in two thousand and seven, then
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: you draft Kevin Cobb, Victor Abymuri, Tony Hunt, Stuart Bradley
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: third rounders. You know, Stuart obviously got hurt, but Tony
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Hunt was never really what they wanted. ABYAMII was never
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: really what they wanted. The next year, Trevor Laws Shun,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Jackson Hit, but Brian's Smith, that small school fastball around
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: the edge guy, Quintin Demps, Mike McGlenn. We've already gone
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: through all the corners and safeties that they struck out
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: on for years. So Howie was kind of coming up
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: at the time through this process. He became GM in
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: twenty ten, but he still didn't have the ultimate final say,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: but the organization was already starting to lose. I think
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: it's way in what they really the tape part of
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: it and starting to get too enamored with the Brian Smith.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: So these under lightweight fastball Chris Gocongs, we'll make them into.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit of an arrogance, I thought,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: and looking back on it, that they're scouting, their culture
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: was going to make guys better than what they were.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: So they were drafting for scheme. Yes, Jim Johnson like
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: smaller players, and the Brian Smith won and also the
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: school McNee State. Yeah, it's just second round. Wow. I know.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Bill Pauline told me more than once over the years
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: when we talked to him about not grading the Jersey
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: grade the tape, which is fine, you got to get
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: it right. But there's some guys sometimes they just can't
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: overcome the small school, the way they're coached. And he
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: was a very small he was a smaller guy. It's
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: just yeah, there was a pattern, which is what you're
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: talking about.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: There was. There was a bad pattern.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: And then Joe came on our show one year I
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: think I remember he talked about the third day or
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: the last day that was the draft would change.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: They they wouldn't do it all in one day, they would
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: split up between three days over a series of years,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: but the dartboard throws. He called him dartboard.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: He said, that's what the last the last day was, Yeah,
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: well you can't look you take this uff seriously. That
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: should never happen, right, And then I think what happened
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: was because well, I'm gonna this is interesting. So someone
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: he used to work for, how he told me that
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: the one thing he would struggle with and not as
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: much now because that's part of why we're talking about
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: this today. But some guys that you know, if you
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: didn't play the game right, you don't have that intrinsic
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: feel of the locker room of understanding what will work
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: and what will not work. And it's not about tape.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: It's about okay, having a feel for football. Character, Guys
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: who get it, guys are mentally tough leaders, show up
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: every time, never take a playoff like the Kobe Dean
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: is the all time terrific player, but locker room guy
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: super smart did.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: One of the all time.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Overcomings of the worst injury history you could talk about.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: Yet Prosper got a big time contract with the Raiders
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: That doesn't happen if you don't get character right.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: And to me, if we rank them.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: In the first time in his career. He got full
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: personnel control without sharing anything. We shared some with Chip.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Kelly was twenty sixteen, right, so he's had ten years,
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: ten drafts. If you look at yes, twenty twenty was
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: abominable other than hers, and we know hurts with this backup,
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: just look at the football character. Look at you don't
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: get to three Super Bowls one two of them unless
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: you're you figure out what the hell were you doing
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: wrong right, and make changes.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: And that's what this show's about today.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, nobody's perfect.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: But like how he said, you know, if you're looking
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: at day one and day two as the crux of
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: your draft, and listen, day three is important.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Most of the league is day three.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: They've had some guys on Day three as well, but
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: you really got to hit on day one and day two.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I even found a draft in two thousand and nine.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I forgot about this. They draft maclin and McCoy Leshoe McCoy,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: two great picks in the great but guess what they
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: did not pick again until the fifth round. Now you
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: gotta think about it. Two thousand and eight, they went
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: to the NFC Championship game with some old aging veteran players,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: including McNab.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Right, so you need this as how he does really well.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Now you got to like maneuver in the draft to
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: get yourself more swings.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: You can't go a third and a fourth round.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Well taking that guy, you know, and you know when
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: you're trying to rebuild it also stay competitive. So I
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: think that's I think how he the one of the
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: bigger differences is he's even more aggressive now in the
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: draft than he was in the first. He's always aggressive,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: but he will go up and down to get the
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: player or the value that he wants unabashedly. And now
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: at this point, it's it's almost a running joke where
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: you say it doesn't matter where the Eagles are picking
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: because they're not going to actually wind up picking in
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: any of these slots.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would add this, like, and this goes by
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: what Joe Banner was telling us, so the years of
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: I hate to bring this stuff up because it's it's
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: so it's depressing when you look at how great their
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: linebackers are. Nothing against Jamar Cheney and Moses Foku, but
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: this is when they were it was like, okay, we
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: will not invest in linebacker, right, this is their philosophy.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: We're not doing it, we're not addressing it. We're hoping
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: for dark But Brian rolls way undersized. Reg loud Drew,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: You're like, that's a terrible way to address a position.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: You got to take this stuff seriously. That would always
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: bother me. I know it bothered fans, and we know
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: this we've heard from forever. But for somemer and I
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: don't have an answer for this and how he's never
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: answered this question directly, But why the turnaround at linebacker? Like, Okay,
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: they got lucky with Zach Bond because he wasn't brought
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: in here to play linebacker.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but that okay, they got but they got
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: it right.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: But Nikobe Dean, We'll see about Campbell, others trot juniors
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: have pretty quality backup. Uh again, we'll see about Campbell.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: But others that they've they've added over the years. This
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: has now gone from one of the worst linebacker rooms
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: that you'll see around the league now it's one of
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: the best. Hard to believe it true?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Why yeah, you know, I do remember having a conversation
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: with someone a while back. This is way before last
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: year's draft or before that, probably closer to when Sirianni
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: got hired, right, and this person was telling me that
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: how he's really getting a better understanding of scheme and
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: players for scheme.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Now you don't again, you don't draft the player just
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: for a scheme.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: But if you are going to run Fangio, for example,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: and he's gonna or his type of acolytes are going
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to want a true zero, a guy who lines up
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: over the center, which is something Andy Reid never never
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: had a true zero technique like Jordan Davis. Right, how
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: he was starting to get a better feel for that,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and when how he drafted Jordan Davis Adam that was
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: we mentioned just like with Jahad Campbell, he is a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: guy that still wants you is going to have to
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: fit that mold of being somewhat of a pass rusher,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: somewhat of an interior burst. But it was the first
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: time he had taken a quote unquote knows tackle because
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: that's what his defense called for. And I thought last
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: year was a good example of again how he understanding
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: what he's running, what his defense, what they need to
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: be successful for what they're doing, and getting a player
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: who fit it, who also deserved to be draft there.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: It was not an overreach because we need an inside
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: linebacker who has some pass rushed edge rushing ability. So
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: that's one of the probably the bigger changes that we're seeing.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Now. Does that mean how he's going to start drafting
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a safety in the first round. I don't know. I
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: doubt it.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I think positional value is still you know, they still
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: want to build inside out. But hey, they finally hit
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: on a cornerback with Quinna Mitchell and Cooper de.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: Jen So let's take up two decades.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's marrying his adaptation to what they're doing now,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: the way the league is being played now with a
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: better and more harmonious scouting department that seems to be
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: on the same page.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: He's not to bring it what you said, further, he's
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: no longer ignoring so called not so valuable positions linebacker.
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: If Gil Brandt told me that the late great personnal
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: Man for the Cowboys.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Who was called the.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: Grandfather of modern day scouting, so to speak your computers
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: in the sixties.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I could listen to him talk for hours.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Man, he was he from my highlights of my career.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Sitting in a hotel room.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: Just I asked, I remember asking how the hell, did
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: you know how to graft for value? Goes, let me
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: tell you something, and he went over his list. I
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: remember it in early two thousands with.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: That Texas what's that with that? Like southern drawl.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: He's actually from Ohio. He was borne. But linebacker.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: If you look at Gills value board, I'm looking at
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: it now, it's not what I wrote down. It's not
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: that high. But as Greg Cosel would tell us, linebacker
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: is still a very valuable position some schemes. It's Greg's
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: talk about Steve Spagnolo, who's Greg.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Greg worked. Greg brought bags in was out of football
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: for season.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: He was coming in NFL films to watch and SPACs
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: would tell him, Look, I can't win if I don't
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: have this. Right, if I don't have this, I don't
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: have to have three of them, but I have to
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: at least have one of them. That's kind of where
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: how he's taken it. And one thing we didn't mention.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: It's not like they ignored it in twenty seventeen. Michael Kendricks, right,
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: second round pick who was taken in twenty twelve. Okay,
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: but he started in the Super Bowl. You're in seventeen.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Jordan Hicks. Now, I know how he didn't draft him.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: That was at Manwitz and Chip Kelly. Jordan Hicks a
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: fantastic player without the injuries. So they actually won with
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: two high draft picks relatively right. So there are different
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: ways to do it. And that's another thing that how
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: he's done. But the big thing is he's finally thrown
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: caution to the wind. He spent resources at corner. As
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: you said. I know, Degene's not technically a corner, as
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Vic Venji would clearly say, He's not a corner.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: He's a nickel let's he plays a.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: Corner on base downs, but he didn't ignore the secondary.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: And you look at it few You were kind of
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: talking about this with the Transform twenty ten on or
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: even before that. But fewer and fewer and fewer players
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: from smaller, smaller, smaller schools, right, very rarely. Now I'm
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: looking at the last ten years, right. And by the way,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: moult Williams Louisiana Tech small school home run pick.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And I do remember the team, Howie, And you know
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: when they had the post draft press conference that year
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: saying that when they take a small school player, they
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: have to be sure that that player dominated every game
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: they play. You can't have a couple of bad games
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: as a small school player against like a guy who's
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: not going to play in the NFL.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: You have to dominate.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And they said Milton Williams dominated the guy across from
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: just like the way he's doing it now at the
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: NFL level. So that is That's one thing that I've
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: heard routinely from scouts and personnel folks around the country
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is if you're going to take a small school player,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: there can't be one or two bad game.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: They just can't. He has to dominate every single game.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, now on your point, it just made I know.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: There's a scout who had.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: The Southwest and and he said, Jaylex Hunting always dominate.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: But what you had to understand was he was kind
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: of surprised at how while he's done with the Eagles.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all about projection, because he was like a
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: ball of clay. You need so much work, and he's
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: well ahead of probably where people thought he would be.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: I'm sure the Eagles would tell you that no one
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: thought he'd be this good in the second year, But
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: that one was a projection. Delite measurables right, A lot
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: to like, but you would have to take a leap
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: of faith Houston Christian. I mean, come on, that's are
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: they Division three or two? I don't have no idea.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: No, I think they're they're they're FBS, No idea World Championship.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry, Yes, yeah, okay, that's whatever.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Still not it's not it's not a higher level of football. Yeah,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: but I had not been an that trust for long.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: But on your point, there was sudden they liked he
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: had the measurables. Yes, there's a lot of good tape,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: okay from a Christian, but he wasn't like, Holy smokes,
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: this kid. It's one of the rare stories. He's got
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: to go in the first round. He wasn't because there
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: was Steve still a long way to go. But if
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: you look at the last ten years, I mean because
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: walk in Southern miss.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: They're not.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: They didn't really draft a lot of guys from small schools.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: I mean Coastal Carolina, Tron Jacks. Okay, six round pick
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: didn't really make it, would return I'm going through really
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: since how he got control very little of it. But
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: the big thing, okay, the big thing in terms of
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: school selection was going to the SEC, going to Georgia
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: and Alabama. It's just remarkable. Only he could tell you
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: what the hell happened? Why, well, why wouldn't you?
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, why didn't you ask the question?
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Well, look, you could draft any player from these schools
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: and you could still miss.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: But their hit rate is fantastic right now.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Of course it's where the best football is played, that
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: in the Big Ten. So in a second, we'll just
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: go through some of the misses and just explain what
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: happened in that pattern, and then why it's changed and
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: then But I do want to remind everybody that you
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: know the Greg co cell breakdowns on the Intel with
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Greg co sell up and fantastic.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: We're almost done with them.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: So we have previewed nearly at to this point, nearly
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: every single position and all the top prospects at the position.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: They're all up on the YouTube and the platform, the
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: podcast platforms he's also doing. If you're listening to this
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: on Thursday, he's got one another ask Greg Cosel for
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: our Tier three Patreon members so you can still sign
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: up and get a chance.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And this is what great people are loving.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: We've gotten a ton of sign ups lately because people
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: love to just get in the chat room and ask
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Greg their question himself. And Greg is really good. He
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: explains everything thoroughly. It's a really awesome give and take.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: It's I've always said Adam that and ask an Eagle
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: is one of the I think the best and most
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: unique things that we do that nobody else is doing
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: is putting fans, listeners, readers, viewers right in touch with
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: the people who we interviewed.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: They get a chance to do it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: That Bobby Taylor, of all the ones we've done, that
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: was great. He like was so into it.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Did he not?
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: I think he kind of hinted he wanted to go along,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: and we're like, Bob, we want to keep it any long.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: We don't want to do half an hour. He was
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: so into it. We got it.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: We got to get him back and we're working on
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: uh work. We're working on two big ones. And oh,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: by the way, you love one.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: By the way, the Vinnie Curry wat.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: So happy and he was doing it from his sons
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: like football practice.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: It was so nice of him.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: It was really cool. It was really cool. We've they've
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: been unblow. John d filipp of course has been with
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: us a ton of times.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Uh coach flip. But anyway, and plus you get us
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: on Wednesday night. If Tier twos and Tier threes get
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: commercial free shows, yeah, we know that was a big
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: thing for people. You also get if you're in two
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: tier two, two three shows earlier than the public.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: And we're doing good. We'll announced this now.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: We're doing I'm gonna do it special Draft Night show
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: for Tier threes only. Haven't we've never done this before
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: Draft Night, doing a livestream.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do it.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: I haven't figured out whether it's gonna be an hour
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: before right after the pick and then I know you
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: and I will probably go live. But get the reaction
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: from the fans, you know from mare Tier three people.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: We did one. I did one on a Sunday night.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: I just I don't know why I did it. I
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: was shocked at the turn. I mean I couldn't get
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: to I mean I got to all the questions so
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: we always answer them, but it was so crowded.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I was like, what.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I was just, I think it was Sunday night, whatever,
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: it was a time I didn't think anything would show up.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: It was kind of a tight study. I'm like, oh
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: my god, this is insane.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: It was great. I was wonderful. I was laughing the
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: whole time, like, man, this is great. You know, so
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Patrion dot Com, slush inside the birth become a member.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: Folks who'll be the smartest people out there.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: We were talking about Howie right and basically I know
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: his his career goes twenty ten, but he didn't have
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: final say in ten.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Andy Reid still did, and then there was the Chip
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Kelly episode. So we're basically gonna.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Look at twenty sixteen when he got power restored and
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: then became the guy to present. And in that time,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: like I mentioned, not only have they been you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: their best drafting as a franchise, but they've also because
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: of that, been to three Super Bowls. They've won two,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: and you mentioned a lot of the things that they
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: have now focused on that to their betterment. Right, Football
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: character really huge, getting talented players from big schools that
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: play in the biggest games every weekend. I would, you know,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I think how He's also done a good job. We
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: should mention of bringing in a lot of guys who
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: were GA whether it was Joe Douglas or Dave Calwell
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: or Matt Russell, who was a real high executive with
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: with the Broncos.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: He's who was the guy who was with the Steelers.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: That was Tom Donahoe, right.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I mean he has always been open to bringing it
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of I don't know how many guys would
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: do that, you know, for ego reasons, Adam, where they
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: would bring in someone who's been a former GM looking.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Over their shoulder. That's how you know he has good
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: job security.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, getting jo d back again.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Ye.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: One thing I would add within this which we touched
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: on briefly, but yes, they take analytical data heavily and
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: it's heavily involved ries score, which is the relative athletics score.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: They don't always get it right.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: But it is amazing if you if you go through
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: and I've done this before, I went through like seven
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: or eight years of how he's draft since he got
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: full control. I mean, it's very rare that a guy
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: doesn't have a pretty solid, if not spectacular, relative athletics score.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: M hm. I mean, look, Ringos was what it was.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: It was really good.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: But he's just done a very good defensive players, an
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: elite special teams player, where he's just not they missed
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: on the traits like they missed on that.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: That was a you missed the tape study.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: You got the other stuff right, but the tape study
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: on the stiffness, as we said, as soon as he
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: was drafted, here's what we're told.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: It's next time possible to get rid of lower body stiffness.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Just can't.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: And that's it is what it is. But if you
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: look at what you were talking about, if you go
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: through these drafts, yes it's the third day, but the
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: football character part, that to me is by far other
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: than going to the sec C schools and get a
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: better players. If the football character part committed to the
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: team concept. If you look at why the Cowboys fail,
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: they draft a lot of talented players, but they don't
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: play within the team's concept. A lot of them not
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: just off the field stuff, it's on the field. While
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: they're so bad against the run. You can't continue to
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: fail against the run drafting talented players. If guys don't
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: do what they're supposed to do, okay, and they have
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: to overcorrect. Jerry Jones has to overcorrect. How it's got
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: a much better field. It's funny Jerry played it at
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Oklahoma State.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I think with Jimmy Johnson, how it's got a much
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: better field for football than Jerry Jones. Dad, it's not
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: even close.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought Jerry played at Arkansas. Was it Oklahoma State? Yeah?
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Jimmy I think Jimmy coacher? Yeah, thank you.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: They both played at Arkansas together. Yep.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But oh yeah, that's a great point. That was a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: great point, Howie.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: Howie, and only he can answer this is some hit where,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: somehow it's part of what you were talking about.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Tom Donahoe.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: I know they were only together like a year and
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: a half, Tom Gamble, Howry's son.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: That's terrific. Don hoo. Yes, that's a big one.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Matt Russell, who played the league for the Lions, was
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: with with heckred here in Philly. Then he left to
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: Denver with John Elway and he came back. Yes, Dave,
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: Dave Carwell, Sure, who's another GM at the University of Florida.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: And how he's credited like Heck It was obviously banner.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Joe built him up from team building philosophy, offensive defensive lines, Howie,
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: and excuse me, Andy and Joe.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Had that shared philosophy.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: Yes, Howie struggled with it for the early portion of
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: his career, but Jeffrey standing by him.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Jeffrey knew about this stuff, by the way. Yep, that's
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: another secret. Also, this thing.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: We could give Howie all the credit, and he deserves
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: a lot of it. But Jeffrey, think about this one.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: I'll give you another one. I'd just thought about this
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: as we're talking. So how he gets reassigned in twenty
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: fifteen would have surprised anyone. If Howie did not return
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: with Eagles at twenty sixteen. Then he said, you know what,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: We've tried this, Howie. This is a mistake, right, I
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: reassigned it. It was a most ridiculous thing. Yeah, you remember
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: the press release on the middle of a radio show
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: and Eagles put this out. They didn't leak it, they
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: just put the release out and I'm like, what, he's
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: in charge of facilities.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: No.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: The best part was the medical equipment.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I know. It was something like that. Your
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: medical equipment. It was just absurd.
• 24:40
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• 24:44
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• 25:58
  Speaker 4: But he stood by what he gats have to yep,
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: and he's Jeffery's the top three owner, maybe the NFL's best.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: And he deserves a lot of this because he didn't
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: have to stand by Howie. Howie is he might be great,
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: but to stick by him when he had a lot
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: of faults just.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: You got it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: We don't talk with really no, it's a great point.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: It is a great point.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Almost everybody else would have after the disaster of trip
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Kelly would have just cleaned house.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: You're absolutely right.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Like ninety nine point nine percent of time, you just
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: clean house and start afresh.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: And he he made an.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Unpop that was not a popular move. It's not like
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Howie was very popular at that point either. You know,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: he had lost out on his power for you to chip,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and before that, it's not like the Eagles were winning
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Super Bowls. So Howie was as much
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: the poster child for the team not getting over that
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: hump and having some bad drafts as anybody else. And
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: then so when he got I remember when he got
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: his power restored, it was same old Jeffrey Lurie doing
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: this thing with his friend like you did with Joe Banner.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: You know, like you can't go outside his own Shelle
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and you know what, he didn't care.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: He took the took the criticism and it worked out.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: You're you're one hundred percent right that that is sort
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of an un sort of forgotten element of all this.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I love Sirianni saying I think he said
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: he got off his own and you can't be great
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: without the greatness of others. Yeah, it's fine to give
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: Howie a lot of the credit because he's he has
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: controls that control for ten years. But you outline some
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: of the Pipley's work with and Joe Banner is very
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: instrumental in how he's development. You got to give Jill credit.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: I understand like there was a falling out at the end,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: but it's Joe's brilliants in terms of team building. And
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey and Joe commissioned the study by MIT and then
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: learn it. You study the success of others mm hm,
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: and how he's got it right. And I'll say this again,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: it seems so simplistic. Why don't teams build from front
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: to back? I don't understand it. Very few do, but
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: nobody does it Like the Eagles. Sometimes they overdo, but
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: you can't argue with their success.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: You cannot all right.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: So that was a good look inside the changing dynamics
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: of the Eagles and their front office, their draft process,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and Howie Roseman.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Being at the heart of it. The next week will
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: be the draft. They'll have a first round pick, we assume,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: we'll see where they wind up picking.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: We'll have more coverage of that, but just wanted to
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: walk everybody through what the last few years have been
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: like compared to what they were prior and give everyone
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: a better explanation of the changes at Howie and his
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: staff have made to be better at what they do
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: and now you could say among the best at what.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: They do when it comes to the NFL Draft.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: That's gonna do it for this episode of Inside the Birds,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the Leading Podcast and the Eagles Intel. As always, we
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: thank you for flying with us Inside the Birds.