Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / The Invisible Team: An Embryologist on What Patients Never Get to See talking with Alice Lee

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The Invisible Team: An Embryologist on What Patients Never Get to See talking with Alice Lee · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Home of Fertility, a space for real conversations and expert insights about fertility, healing and creating family.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Liz Walton.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Helen Z.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about it all.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fertility treatments, holistic support, relationships, mindset, and the emotional highs and lows.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body, or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be in this world.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: And welcome to the Home of Fertility Podcast with Liz Walton.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And today I speak to another amazing woman.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: She has created a book along with her business partner.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: And her name is Alice Lee, and she's an embryologist.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing, Alice?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good, thank you, Liz.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, good.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for taking your time out of your day to speak to me and share your amazing work.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I know today we're going to be talking about your book.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've been on my socials on the uh Instagram uh socials of the Australian Fertility Summit, you'll see I'll be talking about a book called Egg Plus Sperm Equals Babies.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, with a bit of a question mark because yes, it does, but not always.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited to share this.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And well done, you, for writing this book, my lovely.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start off with finding out who is this amazing woman.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me enlighten you with this information.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Alice Lee is an embryologist.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: She has over two decades of experience, and that is across Malaysia, New Zealand, and Australia, and a CERT, which is S-I-R-T, which is a scientist in reproduction member.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: She began her career in 2004 as a trainee embryologist in Malaysia before completing a master's in clinical embryology at Monash University.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: And she has worked as a clinic manager, head of operations for one of Malaysia's largest fertility centers, and senior embryologist.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, you're amazing.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And she now works in Brisbane, where she is based with her family and two wonderful children.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Alice is the co-author and creator of this book, Egg Plus Sperm Equals Babies, with a question mark on it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: An illustrated guide that opens the doors of the IVF laboratory laboratory to patients, families, and fellow embryologists, written and illustrated alongside embryologist and illustrator Diana Tain.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um it's uh I love this book, and I've already given it to a few of my clients where it's just been perfect to give to them.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just think it's wonderful.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for doing this book.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: We are very happy that it's appreciated and that it is helpful to people who have read it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it will be, and it's it's a it's a beautiful thing to have.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I love how you've done a book with all of this, um, everything being on, I suppose, computers and in tech and social media.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start off with um diving deep into our conversation today.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, what would be the one thing that you wish um every patient understood before starting IVF?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so um we wish every patient before they start the IVF cycle, it's basically the title of the book, egg plus sperm equals baby.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Not always the case.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: I wish everyone will have that in mind, even though it sounds a little bit negative.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: But um it is we wish that patients have a basic um understanding on how reproduction actually works.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Not knowing the textbook biology, but just enough to know the difference between egg and embryo and what every developmental stage is, because once you get started, once you're in the middle of injections, hormonal shifts, emotional highs and low, it's uh not a good time to um learn unfamiliar neoterminology for the first time.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, we hope that patients will have all that basic understanding before starting the treatment.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and it really gives you, you do it with such beautiful um like drawings.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: It it's really, really well done.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I love how you've done it to make it so understanding.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And my daughter, who's 11, it she found that made it much more easier to understand what, you know, because she always asked me, What's IVF?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: What work are you doing?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, this um I found this was really good.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So with that, what inspired you and Diana, you know, as you turn your years of knowledge um and clinic side um work into the sketches that published this book?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um all credit to Diana.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So Diana was um an embryologist I've met years ago working um in a fertility clinic in Malaysia.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And she is an incredibly talented illustrator.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And one day she asked if I wanted to create a book together.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: So we I said yes immediately because I've always wanted to help people understand what embryologists actually do in the lab.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Not only, not just patients, but our family members and friends too, because sometimes they don't understand why we have to work weekends, why we have to go in on the public holidays or even over the Christmas period.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: And in the clinic, we found that working um when we talk to patients, we're constantly finding a piece of paper, sketching on paper with um dig drawings and explaining, trying to explain what is happening, how the embryo looks like.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, people we work with often have great questions, but there's no way to visualize what happens behind the doors and under the microscope.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's when we realize there is a real gap, um, which made us um, yeah, create this book.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, well done.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious, so with everything being online and whatnot, so what made you choose to create the book as opposed to making it more online with um I suppose uh so it was just on socials or maybe a download?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um, yeah, I don't see it as a book versus online, but I think they solve different problems.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Social content is brilliant for quick awareness.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all of us are online on Instagram, on TikTok, and it can make embryology feel less mysterious in a few seconds or 30 seconds.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're actually going through IVF, um, trying to process all the information, maybe the night before your embryo transfer, scrolling a feed isn't really where you go to to understand something.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: You need to have the information in your head, sit with it and maybe reread the page twice, or maybe show your partner or your family the same picture you're working, um you're looking at and to have the same understanding.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: So that's how the book actually started.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think well done for having the book because it's it's a great way to get this into people's hands and to be, you know, passed on to everybody.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, awesome.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now what would you like this the impact of this book to be for patients and um for people on that journey?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I um hope that the book will help um everyone, patients especially feel calmer, clearer, and have be better prepared for what lies ahead.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: It is already an emotional journey, but when they understand more um the basic biology before they start, they're not blindsided by terminology or the realities of possible outcomes.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because we believe that a well-informed patient is more confident, is a more confident patient, and that confidence can make a real difference in how they experience the treatment.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I also hope it helps people see the IVF lab in a new light.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Embryologists are often the invisible part of the fertility journey, not because um patients don't appreciate us, but because they rarely interact with us directly.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: So if this book can open the door even a little, it helps patients and families understand what we do, why we do it, and how deeply we care.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, then it's something meaningful, not just for patients, but also for the profession as a whole.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: It makes it more understanding.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And when you are on the journey, yeah, you don't always think about, you know, the embryology team behind it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I love how, you know, like two ways to fertilize your eggs so that you have an understanding.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: You talk about um the importance of semen and the fact that it needs to be good, collecting your eggs, you know, all these things.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love how you've made it easy and understandable and breaking it down.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, even you know, warming your frozen blastocysts, you know, how that happens.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, and it is, it's creating an understanding of, you know, your team, the profession as an embryologist.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because um, yes, we do communicate communicate with patients along the cycle.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: We call them on day z day one, day three, day five, and day six to give updates.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: But those phone calls usually a few minutes at the most, and we we deliver um information and we use words that patients might have only heard the first time.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: So if they have a book in front of them, they know exactly where we're up to, what we're talking about, and how it looks, they can visualize it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they really can.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's really good.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um what, you know, if someone was really overwhelmed on this journey, because with all the medical terminology with IVF, um, what would you say to someone who has that feeling of over being overwhelmed?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'd say have a look at the book.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um just sit with it, spend it, spend a bit of time, you know, flip through the pages, go through and your embryologies, most yeah, contact them, um, work with them in the any clinic that you're with, could try to contact them, ask them questions, sit with them to understand before you start the journey.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And what else would you like to share about the book?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, your passion with creating it and sharing it, and you know, it's like birthing a baby, isn't it?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, having creating a book, you know, as we get it into the hands, you know, grow and getting it into the hands of of everybody.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh yeah, it took us two years to get to this stage.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: I really, really hope that um patients will at least have a chance to look through, to have um a chance to understand, not understand, um, just to go through the whole cycle before they sign.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Often before they start a fertility journey, they have to sign their consent forms, they have to learn how to use their injections, the drugs, but they really should um be given an overview of what happens in the lab and what are the possible outcomes.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about good outcomes.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone comes in with an intention to want to live with a baby, but sometimes it's not always the case.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: What could possibly go wrong?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: And if that happens, what can we do?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: If we are equipped with all of this information, then I think it will make the whole experience um better for everyone.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's learning to understand.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's um, you know, it's a big medical journey, but there's so much of the emotional part that can affect our body.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when we understand, we can support ourselves, can't we?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um as we bring our conversation to a close, what would be your top tip?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's difficult to choose one or a few top tips that you would like our listeners to leave with.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I think it would be to ask questions.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: Do not be afraid or do not be be worried about asking.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I can just you can reach out to the clinic in different ways.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Keep asking at every stage when your embryologist calls you with update.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: If you think of any questions, ask and don't assume because we can easily um sometimes when we don't understand, we put the phone down and start Googling, and we get even more confused with the information, with the a lot of information we get online.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's sometimes easier and um clearer if we just write down our questions and ask um when you receive that phone call from your embryologist.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Write down questions and ask.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Don't assume.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very powerful because we can be in all sorts of states of emotional upheaval and stress.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's good to be reminded.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're really good reminders for us.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and um another, sorry, if I could may I add another tip, it's not not everyone's journey is the same.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever we read online, whatever we see online, it's very personal, and every not two patients, no two patients are exactly the same.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, with that in mind, I think it um yeah, hopefully that will help make things easier.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: It does, yes.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: All journeys are different, without a shadow of a doubt.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're all amazing, very different human beings.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Alice, thank you so much.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I will just double check is there anything else that you would like to share about your book and your work?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, no, so yeah, the book is available on Amazon.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, and worldwide.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so if you're interested, feel free to grab a copy.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I hope it is helpful.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think it is very helpful.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: So for people that would like to buy the book, do you go to Amazon?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Where else can they go to purchase the book?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so it is uh for Southeast Asia, it is available through a local distributor.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: All the information are on our website, www.zygotinc.com.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but um outside of Southeast Asia, the book is available on Amazon.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Zygotinc.com.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And just spell out how do you spell zygotinc?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, z-y-g-o-teink.com.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, right.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where you can get it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, awesome.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if people wanted to find you, how do they find you, my lovely?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so all the information is also on the website.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: There is a contact us button.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, feel free to have a chat with us if you have any questions or if you would like to collaborate.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm always up for a good collaboration.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, if you're out there and you'd like to collaborate and look deeper into these books and sharing those books, I know Alice would love to hear from you.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's a pleasure.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Alice, thank you for your time today.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing this book that you have created and for making the IVF Laboratory sort of open up so people understand what's going on and creating that um that part of bringing the sperm and the egg together to create a baby, understanded and knowledgeable and knowing.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for that.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Lise.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for your time.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, it's an absolute pleasure.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, my lovely, I will say goodbye to everybody.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, you know, do ask questions, don't assume.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Write down those questions and ask, because all of your journeys are different, and it's really good to advocate for yourself as much as you can.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, you take care.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Alice.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And wishing everybody a lovely rest of your day.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: All right, lots of love and bye.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us at the Homer Fertility.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort, and connection.
• 18:16
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• 18:19
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• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook at Australian Fertility Summit.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Remember the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom, or something new just made for you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.