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Massachusetts Mom Searches "Ways to Kill," Strangles Her 3 Tots Dead With Exercise Bands · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: A gorgeous young mom strangles all three children dead with
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Speaker 2: exercise bands. Three children ages five, three, and just seven months.
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Speaker 2: How why I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 2: you for being with us here at Crime Stories and
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Speaker 2: series six and one eleven. I want answers, I want
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Speaker 2: the right thing, So let's start at the beginning. Listen.
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Speaker 3: The defendant took her five year old daughter Core to
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Speaker 3: the pediatricians for an appointment. She interacted with a receptionist, staff,
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Speaker 3: and a doctor.
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Speaker 4: There were apparently no.
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Speaker 3: Issues with the defendant's demeanor or behavior, as she completed
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Speaker 3: the appointment and was allowed to leave with Korr without
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Speaker 3: any issues or concerns. When she returned home, she went
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Speaker 3: outside with Corr and her three year old son, Dawson
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Speaker 3: to play in the snow.
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Speaker 4: They built a snowman.
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Speaker 3: The defendants sent photos to her mother and to the
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Speaker 3: defendant straight back to her husband.
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Speaker 4: She texted with them.
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Speaker 3: Nothing in the text was out of the ordinary or
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Speaker 3: any sign of any distress or trouble.
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Speaker 2: Okay, she went to the doctor the pediatrician. The doctor
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Speaker 2: noticed nothing unusual. She left with the baby, Coral five.
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Speaker 2: She goes home builds a snowman with the sun. Everything's fine,
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Speaker 2: and then why hours later this.
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Speaker 4: Listen seven four tone.
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Speaker 5: Of Summer's Street with fellow the police, sale party across
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Speaker 5: the top floor of the house, twipers as well, and
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Speaker 5: secondaries and arrests and that collaborations. She is conscious at
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Speaker 5: this time, We're gonna check with my plate who's over
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Speaker 5: twenty foot fall.
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Speaker 6: It's unknown where the knife is or whatever he used
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Speaker 6: to slight her. He's in the looks like they're hanging
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Speaker 6: are on the fact.
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Speaker 2: Well U.
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Speaker 7: She did?
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Speaker 5: He was a knife at first?
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Speaker 7: Unknown where that is?
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Speaker 2: At this time, all we're hearing about is her. Where
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Speaker 2: are the children? Listen, I lotus, I'm on the way.
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Speaker 4: Where was the county cot arrest? And as the two
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Speaker 4: pediatrics arrest, we're gonna betilate on the way mutually.
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Speaker 2: At this time all three children were dad, That's what
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Speaker 2: that means. Why is she at the doctor seemingly normal,
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Speaker 2: building a snowman and then the next thing we know,
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Speaker 2: all three children are dead. How did police end up
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Speaker 2: at the scene? Joining me in all star panel to
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Speaker 2: make sense of what we know? Right now we're talking
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Speaker 2: about mom Lindsey Clancy, who strangles all three children dead
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Speaker 2: with exercise bands joining me again All star panel, but
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Speaker 2: first two. Flint mcgoldkin, Boston haild reporter. You can find
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Speaker 2: him at Boston Herald dot com. Flint tell me about
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Speaker 2: police arriving on the scene and what they saw when
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Speaker 2: they first get there.
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Speaker 8: So when police arrived, they've been called by Patrick Clancy,
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Speaker 8: Lindsay's husband, and they find Lindsay in the backyard underneath
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Speaker 8: the master bedroom window about twenty two down. And while
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Speaker 8: Patrick said that she was probably not currently bleeding at
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Speaker 8: the time, she was covered in blood. She was clearly injured,
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Speaker 8: but she was conscious and she was alive, but there
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Speaker 8: was clearly she would later it would be determined that
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Speaker 8: she had spinal injuries, that she had some severe injuries
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Speaker 8: and had tried to kill herself. So there was blood
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Speaker 8: in front of the mirror in the bedroom.
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Speaker 2: But she did live, yes, yeah, And what about the children?
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Speaker 8: The children?
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Speaker 9: So Patrick said that he asked Lindsey where are the children,
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Speaker 9: because he came home to a quiet home, and she
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Speaker 9: said in the basement, And he went down there, and
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Speaker 9: as can be heard in some emergency communications, he starts
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Speaker 9: screaming because he goes down to the basement, which is
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Speaker 9: a finished basement.
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Speaker 8: It's where he does his work. He works from home
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Speaker 8: in the basement and he sees his children all you know,
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Speaker 8: purple and blue with exercise bands around their necks. So
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Speaker 8: the two older children would be pronounced dead that night
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Speaker 8: and little Callan who would turn eight months with it
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Speaker 8: before dying a few days later.
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Speaker 2: I want you to hear more of what we now
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Speaker 2: know leads up to a triple homicide of little children. Listen.
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Speaker 3: The defendant searched on her phone kids MiraLax. She then
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Speaker 3: searched a takeout three V via her cell phone at
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Speaker 3: four thirteen pm. Immediately after doing that, she used Apple
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Speaker 3: Maps on her phone to determine how long it would
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Speaker 3: take someone to drive from her home in Duxbury to
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Speaker 3: three V restaurant in Plymouth, so she would know how
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Speaker 3: long someone would be gone if they ran that errand
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Speaker 3: She next went on the CBS website at four forty
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Speaker 3: seven pm and then call CVS on Summer Street in Kingston.
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Speaker 4: She spoke to the manager of CVS and asked if
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Speaker 4: they had the kids Marrilax.
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Speaker 3: The manager told her no, but they had other similar medications.
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Speaker 3: According to the manager of CVS. Her voice did not
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Speaker 3: sound slurred or impaired in any way, She had no
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Speaker 3: trouble understanding the defendant, and it was a perfectly normal conversation.
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Speaker 2: Okay, let's analyze what we're hearing right now. Joining me
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Speaker 2: Flint mcgoulkin, Boston Harold reporter along with an all star panel,
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Speaker 2: doctor Angela Arnold, a renowned psychiatrist, joining us, and Daryl Cohen,
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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer, former prosecutor. You can find him at
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Speaker 2: Darryl B. Cohen on Facebook. Daryl, thank you for being
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Speaker 2: with us. I'm sure you just heard, as I did,
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Speaker 2: a tiny bit of the information of what led up
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Speaker 2: to the martyrs of three children. Darryl, you have children,
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Speaker 2: as do I. Five year old Cora strangled Dan, three
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Speaker 2: year old Dawson strangled dead, seven month old Callen strangled
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Speaker 2: dead with mommy's exercise bands. But leading up to the murders,
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Speaker 2: where the children were brought systematically down to the basement,
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Speaker 2: reminded me a great deal of Andrea Yates, who systematically,
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Speaker 2: one by one brought her children to the bathtub and
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Speaker 2: round them, starting with the most powerful child, and then
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Speaker 2: going down because she didn't want to be stopped by
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Speaker 2: the powerful child that the little boy, including a month's
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Speaker 2: old baby. As I recall, her name was Mary, and
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Speaker 2: even Mary was covered in bruises as she struggled against
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Speaker 2: her mother who was holding her under the water. Andrea
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Speaker 2: Yates also made sure her husband was gone before she
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Speaker 2: committed multiple murders, waiting for him to go to go
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Speaker 2: to work, watching him leave, locking all the or so
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Speaker 2: she could not be disturbed, then murdering them and lying
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Speaker 2: them all out on the bed to be found soaking,
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Speaker 2: wet and dead. Did you hear Daryl Cohen that she
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Speaker 2: did a search on her phone for kids me relax,
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Speaker 2: She called the pharmacy asking about it. Then she even
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Speaker 2: planned take out at upscale three V restaurant, perfectly saying, Darryl.
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Speaker 7: And Nancy, what appears to be perfectly seen obviously was
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Speaker 7: not this woman. Whatever happened, whether it was planned in
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Speaker 7: her mind, days, weeks, hours, minutes before, committed one of
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Speaker 7: the most tenous acts I have ever heard, and I've
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Speaker 7: heard a lot.
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Speaker 2: Okay, can I just quickly remind you of what you
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Speaker 2: learned in your first year of law school and which
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Speaker 2: you argued to many many juries before you became a
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Speaker 2: defense lawyer. All right, and then suddenly you've forgotten the law.
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Speaker 2: Because the law says you must not know right from
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Speaker 2: wrong at the time of the incident to be insane.
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Speaker 2: This woman researched ways to kill.
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Speaker 7: She knew, she knew right from wrong. If she didn't
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Speaker 7: know right from wrong, she wouldn't have been as meticulously
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Speaker 7: planning it as she apparently was.
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Speaker 2: And I know this sounds harsh. I know this sounds harsh.
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Speaker 2: I understand that. I understand she jumped from a second
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Speaker 2: floor bedroom. Yeah, I get it, as she may immediately
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Speaker 2: regret the deed. But the law is the law. And
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Speaker 2: if she knew right from wrong at the time she
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Speaker 2: murdered three children, then she is responsible. Did she have
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Speaker 2: postpartum psychosis? She may have, but does that make her insane.
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Speaker 2: You can all hate me as much as you want,
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Speaker 2: but someone has to do the right thing for these
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Speaker 2: three children.
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Speaker 7: Nancy, I don't hate you. I agree with you, and
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Speaker 7: it's hard for me to agree with you sometimes, but
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Speaker 7: I'll be honest with you. She knew right from wrong.
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Speaker 7: There is no insanity here. There may have been moments
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Speaker 7: of lucidity, problems, there may have been moments of insanity,
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Speaker 7: but this was an overall planned, evil attack on three
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Speaker 7: innocent young basically babies. They had no chance to live.
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Speaker 7: And this woman was not insane. This woman needs to
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Speaker 7: be punished under every possible way the law can do it.
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Speaker 2: Time Stories with Nancy Grace, Brian gil Is joining me
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Speaker 2: for more thirty year and police detective. This happened in Duxbury, Massachusetts,
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Speaker 2: near Boston. Owner of b TG Investigations and you can
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Speaker 2: find at BTG investigations dot com. Brian, how many thousands
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Speaker 2: of times in your career did you realize there's no
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Speaker 2: good answer, There's no answer that you like. I mean,
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Speaker 2: I really learned it in my first violent felony prosecution,
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Speaker 2: not my first prosecution because that was an attempt to shoplifting,
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Speaker 2: but my first violent felony because yeah, the jury handed
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Speaker 2: down a guilty verdict, but nobody was happy. The victim's
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Speaker 2: family was devastated, the victim murdered. The defendant, of course,
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Speaker 2: was miserable because he's going away for life. There is
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Speaker 2: no good answer. There is no good answer for Mom
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Speaker 2: Lindsey Clancy. Do I feel heartbroken for her? Her children
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Speaker 2: are dead as she did it. That's pure hell right there.
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Speaker 2: But I have to look at this through the eyes
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Speaker 2: of a lawyer, and we have to do our duty,
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Speaker 2: which is sometimes very hard to do.
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Speaker 10: I agree, Nancy one hundrederstand with what you're saying. It is,
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Speaker 10: it's unimaginable, it's there. I don't think there's anything that
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Speaker 10: we could do that would really make it worse on
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Speaker 10: Lindsey what she's going to have to live with. I
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Speaker 10: agree with what people have been saying so far today too.
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Speaker 10: I look at it, and you know all the planning
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Speaker 10: that went in, and we see the searches how to
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Speaker 10: kill and sending the husband on the ride. But then
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Speaker 10: I think one of the things that really jumps out
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Speaker 10: of me is when she's in the hospital and it's
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Speaker 10: prior to the arrayment and on her white bullet she writes,
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Speaker 10: do I need an attorney?
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Speaker 2: Okay? Well why why? Why? Brian gil I researched this heavily.
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Speaker 2: I didn't know that. Could you slow it down? And
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Speaker 2: could you tell me that one more time? What?
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Speaker 7: Yes?
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Speaker 10: If you watch the arraignment, that's one of the things
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Speaker 10: the district attorney says is that on the whiteboard in
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Speaker 10: her hospital room, a nurse alerts the police and says
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Speaker 10: that she wrote on the whiteboard, do I need an attorney?
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Speaker 10: So that to me shows the knowledge of what happened.
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Speaker 10: This is you know, this is naturally after the fact
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Speaker 10: a few days later when she's being arraigned. But still
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Speaker 10: to write that down is a clear indication that you
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Speaker 10: know what you've done. So we just discussed right and wrong.
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Speaker 10: Do I need an attorney? You don't ask that question
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Speaker 10: unless you know that you've done something wrong.
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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Brian gil Okay, Number one,
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Speaker 2: you've seen it all. I always think I've seen it
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Speaker 2: all all the years I prosecuted in covered cases from
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Speaker 2: all around the world. Darryl has seen it all as
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Speaker 2: a prosecutor and a very well known prosecutor. I might
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Speaker 2: add I got to the District Attorney's office on the
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Speaker 2: tail end of his tenure there and highly highly respected
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Speaker 2: doctor Angie Arnold. Renowned psychiatrist doctor Michelle Dupree is joining us.
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Speaker 2: He shocked to fag during the dare I say his
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Speaker 2: name Alexan Murdog case as a leading pathologist in our country.
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Speaker 2: Julie Lewis is joining us. We need her to talk
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Speaker 2: about digital evidence. She's the president CEO Digital Mountain, Inc.
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Speaker 2: Of course, Flint mcgoldkin joining us with all the facts
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Speaker 2: and Brian gil But Brian, that is a fact I
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Speaker 2: cannot ignore. I cannot ignore it when you are faced
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Speaker 2: with the life and death of your children. I've actually,
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Speaker 2: believe it or not, got jumped in front of them
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Speaker 2: when a car veered off the curb, a big truck
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Speaker 2: actually speeding near our church where we were out playing
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Speaker 2: when they were little. You don't think about you, You
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Speaker 2: think about them. I mean, and there's so many examples
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Speaker 2: of moms that have lifted cars, that have taken a bullet,
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Speaker 2: that have fought off a pit bull to save their child.
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Speaker 2: And this woman is in the hospital riding do I
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Speaker 2: need an attorney? While her children is two days after
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Speaker 2: the murders, they're dead, and she's thinking about herself. As
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Speaker 2: a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut
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Speaker 2: one you're hearing Jennifer Sprague on Friday.
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Speaker 3: January twenty seventh, twenty twenty three, using a raceful whiteboard
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Speaker 3: because she was still temporarily intubated. One of the first
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Speaker 3: questions that Lindsey Clancy asked was do I need Ernie?
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Speaker 3: She knew that she had murdered her children, and she
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Speaker 3: had the clarity, focus and mental acumen to focus on
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Speaker 3: protecting her own rights and interests.
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Speaker 2: Okay, everybody, buckle up. Doctor Angela Arnold's psychiatrist in the
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Speaker 2: Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Angela Arnold MD
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Speaker 2: dot com. And she not only is a professor of psychiatry,
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Speaker 2: her specialty is dealing with one of her specialties dealing
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Speaker 2: with postpartum now. Also, she was just named as my
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Speaker 2: Butckhead's best psychiatric Practice of twenty twenty three. And I
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Speaker 2: gotta tell you, Butckhead, Georgia, where all the rich people live,
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Speaker 2: it is dripping with psychiatrists. Those rich people got a
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Speaker 2: lot of problems. So she has been voted the best
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Speaker 2: psycho psychiatric practice of all of those shrinks. So, doctor
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Speaker 2: Angie Arnold, I don't know what that really means, but
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Speaker 2: I guess that makes you the queen of the shrinks.
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Speaker 11: But that said, you're just like you're the queen of crime.
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Speaker 2: Honey, Yes, right, I don't know about that, but doctor Angie,
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Speaker 2: I think I know what you're about to say. I'm
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Speaker 2: pretty sure I'm not gonna like it, but go ahead,
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Speaker 2: hit me, go ahead, Nancy.
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Speaker 11: Every time we hear one of these stories.
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Speaker 2: It's not a story number one, it's not a story case.
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Speaker 2: Cora five is real, Dawson three is real, Callen seven
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Speaker 2: months is real. They're in caskets, they're under the ground,
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Speaker 2: snow on them.
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Speaker 11: And every time one of these things happens, everyone gets
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Speaker 11: his enraged as you are. And I see that what
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Speaker 11: we're talking about today is the only thing we've talked
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Speaker 11: about is the incident forward. The incident forward. Okay, I
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Speaker 11: want to look at what led up to.
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Speaker 2: The God just told you what led up to this.
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Speaker 2: She heard Sprague tell you know what. I'm glad you
18:21
Speaker 2: said that. I'm so happy you said that. Listen to
18:24
Speaker 2: this our cut four.
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Speaker 3: The defendant texted her husband, who was working in his
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Speaker 3: home office in their basement. She texted, any chance you
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Speaker 3: want to do takeout from three V.
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Speaker 4: I didn't cook anything, it's been a long day.
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Speaker 3: This was an unusual request, as when the family ordered
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Speaker 3: to take out, they usually go somewhere closer to home,
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Speaker 3: but it was a place that they had been in
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Speaker 3: the past. Patrick Clincy texted back yes, and then the
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Speaker 3: defendant asked him to check the menu. At five h
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Speaker 3: six pm, the husband texted the defendant asking what she
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Speaker 3: was going to get. She responded, a Mediterranean powerable. She
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Speaker 3: spelled it correctly, and it was something that was on
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Speaker 3: the menu. He then told her that he wanted to
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Speaker 3: scallop in pork belly risotto. At ten PM, the defendant
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Speaker 3: called three V Restaurant to place the order. She got
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Speaker 3: the order correct, she gave the correct name for pickup. Patrick,
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Speaker 3: the hostess who took the call said there was nothing
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Speaker 3: out of the ordinary about this call. She was able
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Speaker 3: to understand the defendant that her voice was not.
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Speaker 4: Slurred or impaired in any way.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she even knew enough to order one of her
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Speaker 2: favorite meals from this tony upscale restaurant, a Mediterranean power bowl.
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Speaker 2: And you know, if I asked my husband, let's do
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Speaker 2: a takeout, there's no way. And this he graduated from
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Speaker 2: Morton with an NBA please that he cannot do a
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Speaker 2: drive through there, Like, what did you just say much
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Speaker 2: less order? I mean off a menu? No, I have
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Speaker 2: to do that. Long story short, She got this order
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Speaker 2: scot scollop and port belly risotto Mediterranean powerble. She got
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Speaker 2: it all right, it spelled it correctly. What about that doctor, Angie?
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Speaker 2: She was just getting him out of the house. He
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Speaker 2: was there working in his at home office, plays leaves.
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Speaker 2: So I can murder the children, that's right, And he
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Speaker 2: did had to go all the way across town for her,
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Speaker 2: so she can murder the children. Thoughts, Nancy.
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Speaker 11: When people come to when they have decided that they're
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Speaker 11: going to do a plan like that, they're very calm.
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Speaker 11: They know what they're going to do. But I still
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Speaker 11: want to talk about what came before this. I want
20:44
Speaker 11: to discuss how many times she went to the doctor
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Speaker 11: because of how she was feeling, the medication she was on.
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Speaker 2: Okay, what led up to us.
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Speaker 11: I'm not asking anyone to say she was insane, but
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Speaker 11: this woman was sick.
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Speaker 2: She may be sick, but that doesn't mean she's not guilty.
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Speaker 2: I'm looking for my oh my goodness, I just found it,
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Speaker 2: her list of medications joining me. I'm want to follow
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Speaker 2: up on what you're talking about because I cannot ignore
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Speaker 2: those facts. Doctor Angie, you're right, and if it goes
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Speaker 2: toward proving to me that she was insane, then she
21:19
Speaker 2: should be treated in a mental facility and not go
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Speaker 2: to jail. It's just that simple. I don't want an
21:24
Speaker 2: insane person in jail. I don't want that, but I
21:27
Speaker 2: want a sane person that killed three children behind bars.
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Speaker 2: Flint mcgulkin is joining US veteran Boston Herald reporter, Flint.
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Speaker 2: These are the meds I've got. I've got their clinical names,
21:39
Speaker 2: but here are their street names. Ambien, klonipin, valium, prozac,
21:46
Speaker 2: lammic till. What's that at? A van remern don't know
21:51
Speaker 2: what that is, Sarah Quill, don't know what that is.
21:54
Speaker 2: Traza done heard of it? Don't know what that is?
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Speaker 2: Are there any more that you know of? Flint mcgulkin.
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Speaker 8: I've got the list right in front of me. I've
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Speaker 8: got a very similar list, it was in a different order,
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Speaker 8: so I hope I didn't miss anything.
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Speaker 2: Just give me your list real quick, then we'll ask
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Speaker 2: doctor Michelle dupre about what they are.
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Speaker 11: Nancy, just f y. I I can tell you what
22:12
Speaker 11: each one of those medicines is for.
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Speaker 2: And why is your name doctor Michelle Duprey? No, but
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Speaker 2: this is my It's doctor any Arnold. Okay, Okay, well
22:21
Speaker 2: you just go on and I'll let you and doctor
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Speaker 2: dupre fight out who's more of a special doctor. But Flint,
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Speaker 2: do you have any other meds. Just give me your
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Speaker 2: list real quick.
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Speaker 8: Certainly the one from my coverage that I've taken out here,
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Speaker 8: I've got it includes, according to Patrick Clancy, Zola, dallium, trazodone,
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Speaker 8: out Evan, klonipin, Prozac, and Sarah Couill. And then I
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Speaker 8: think others that I didn't. Yeah, that's my list.
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Speaker 2: Yeah I didn't have zoloft. Doctor Michelle Duprey joining US
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Speaker 2: forensics Pathologists, medical examiner, detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder,
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Speaker 2: the Murdoch Saga the rest of the story. And it
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Speaker 2: ain't over yet, doctor Michelle. You may have to do
23:02
Speaker 2: an addendum. I will, but also writing the book Homicide
23:10
Speaker 2: Investigation Field Guide and a second book investigating Child Abuse
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Speaker 2: Fueled Guide, Doctor Dupree. Since doctor Angie specialty is psychiatry,
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Speaker 2: let me ask you about your specialty. How did the children,
23:26
Speaker 2: the three little children die with these exercise bands? Why
23:32
Speaker 2: clinically are they blue when Daddy finds.
23:35
Speaker 12: Them, Nancy, they were strangled, basically, that's the term. And
23:40
Speaker 12: the oxygen was cut off to their brains because they
23:43
Speaker 12: were strangled with the exercise bands around the neck.
23:45
Speaker 2: But when you are when you have any lack of
23:50
Speaker 2: oxygen doesn't don't your lips or your fingertips, parts of
23:55
Speaker 2: your body begin to turn blue?
23:57
Speaker 12: And why yes, they can absolutely do that. And again
24:00
Speaker 12: and it's because that when that blood supply is cut off,
24:03
Speaker 12: your blood carries oxygen to parts of your body, and
24:06
Speaker 12: so because the oxygen is cut off, then you begin
24:09
Speaker 12: to turn blue in those places.
24:11
Speaker 2: What would the children have experienced, Nanthy.
24:13
Speaker 12: It would have been frightening. Not only would it have
24:16
Speaker 12: been frightening because they were being strangled and couldn't breathe,
24:19
Speaker 12: but because they would see their mother doing this. That's
24:23
Speaker 12: the part that just frightens me. The last thing they
24:26
Speaker 12: saw was their mother. Someone who was supposed to take
24:29
Speaker 12: care of the children, to protect them, is now.
24:31
Speaker 2: Killing them one by one. I guarantee you we're going
24:36
Speaker 2: to learn she brought them down their single, single file,
24:39
Speaker 2: so one could not stop her from killing the other. Okay,
24:43
Speaker 2: doctor Angie, you asked for it, you got it. You
24:47
Speaker 2: tell me about the drugs, because that sounds I don't
24:49
Speaker 2: even know what some of those drugs are. They sound terrible.
24:51
Speaker 11: So Nancy, when I looked at when I looked at
24:54
Speaker 11: the drugs, and she had been to she had been
24:56
Speaker 11: to a couple of different psychiatrists and it looked like
24:58
Speaker 11: at one point she had either and checked yourself into
25:02
Speaker 11: a hospital. When you see when you see that many
25:06
Speaker 11: drugs that are trying to treat anxiety and depression, and
25:09
Speaker 11: a couple of the drugs. The sarah quill is an antipsychotic,
25:13
Speaker 11: that is, that is usually what we use for anxiety.
25:17
Speaker 11: And also if someone is a little bit out of
25:21
Speaker 11: touch with reality and and they're not thinking clearly, will
25:25
Speaker 11: use sarah quill in a post part of mother. And
25:27
Speaker 11: Lamictel is a mood stabilizer.
25:30
Speaker 2: You know what. I'm sorry, doctor Angie, I all write
25:32
Speaker 2: this down. It's just too much. I'm just a JD.
25:34
Speaker 11: What sarah quill sarah quill is an antipsychotic.
25:37
Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead, place.
25:39
Speaker 11: And lamictal Lamictal is a mood stabilizer, okay.
25:43
Speaker 2: What's adavan?
25:44
Speaker 11: Adavan is a benzodiazepine which is used for anxiety and.
25:49
Speaker 2: Sleep, okay. And what's rimaran?
25:52
Speaker 11: Rimaran is another drug that is used for sleep.
25:55
Speaker 2: And Prozac.
25:56
Speaker 11: Prozac is an antidepressant. Vali and zola off as an antidepressant.
26:01
Speaker 11: Valuume is a stronger medicine that she used for sleep
26:04
Speaker 11: and anxiety.
26:05
Speaker 2: Right, was clonopin.
26:06
Speaker 11: Clonapin is a long acting benzodiazepain.
26:09
Speaker 2: Please don't talk that way to May. What does that mean?
26:11
Speaker 11: It means that it lasts longer than at a van
26:13
Speaker 11: at a van will.
26:14
Speaker 2: What is it?
26:15
Speaker 11: It's for anxiety, It's for anxiety, nancy and ambition. Ambient
26:20
Speaker 11: is simply for sleep.
26:22
Speaker 2: And trasidine sleep. Ambien you said, is anxiety or sleep?
26:27
Speaker 4: Sleep?
26:27
Speaker 2: And trasidone sleep. Was she taking all of this? Flint mcgawkin.
26:33
Speaker 8: So these were drugs that she had been prescribed at
26:36
Speaker 8: various times. I think she was a prescribed only four
26:40
Speaker 8: of them at the time of the murders, And in fact,
26:44
Speaker 8: blood work showed that several medications were in her system
26:51
Speaker 8: that spu spread argued that they were in Most of
26:55
Speaker 8: them were in safe therapeutic doses, but that the sera quo,
26:58
Speaker 8: the anti narcotic in a higher dose, all.
27:01
Speaker 2: Those other drugs she had babbled in over an eight
27:05
Speaker 2: month period. Can we also talk about her digital trail?
27:11
Speaker 2: Sheilaugh tracks a mile wide. Take a listen again to
27:15
Speaker 2: Ada Jennifer Sprague.
27:18
Speaker 3: Patrick Clancy headed out the door to run these errands
27:21
Speaker 3: at the defendant's request. As he left, she texted in PDLX.
27:25
Speaker 4: Liquid stool softener.
27:27
Speaker 3: Surveillance footage shows mister Clancy at CBS on Summer Street
27:31
Speaker 3: in Kingston at five thirty two pm. He goes to
27:34
Speaker 3: the medication aisle, the children's medication aisle. Phone records showed
27:39
Speaker 3: that he called the defendant at five thirty three pm
27:41
Speaker 3: and she did not answer the phone. She then calls
27:45
Speaker 3: him back at five thirty four pm and the call
27:47
Speaker 3: lasted fourteen seconds. He's there at the store, I'm sure
27:50
Speaker 3: of which medication to get, and she tells him exactly
27:53
Speaker 3: what she wants. He had no issues communicating with her.
27:56
Speaker 3: It was a completely normal call, although he did mention
28:00
Speaker 3: that she seemed like she was in the middle of something.
28:02
Speaker 3: He is on surveillance vootage during this time exiting that
28:04
Speaker 3: aisle and appeared to be using his phone. He then
28:06
Speaker 3: heads to the register and makes his purchase and leaves
28:09
Speaker 3: the store at five thirty seven pm.
28:11
Speaker 2: Yes, she was busy, she was getting those exercise bands
28:14
Speaker 2: and it leads to this listen.
28:16
Speaker 3: When he arrives home, the first thing he noticed was
28:20
Speaker 3: the silence. He did not see or hear the defendant
28:24
Speaker 3: or the children. He actually called her cell phone at
28:27
Speaker 3: six o'he nine pm looking for them, and she did
28:30
Speaker 3: not answer. He went to their bedroom when the second
28:33
Speaker 3: floor and the door was locked. He was able to
28:36
Speaker 3: open it, and when he looked inside, he saw blood
28:38
Speaker 3: on the floor in front of a full length mirror
28:41
Speaker 3: in the window open, he immediately runs downstairs and into
28:45
Speaker 3: the backyard, where he finds the defendant laying on the ground.
28:49
Speaker 3: She appeared to have cuts on her wrists and neck,
28:52
Speaker 3: but he stated to nine one one that those wounds
28:54
Speaker 3: were no longer bleeding.
28:56
Speaker 4: She was conscious.
28:57
Speaker 3: He called nine one one during this time he asked
29:00
Speaker 3: the defendant, what did you do? She responded to him,
29:04
Speaker 3: I tried to kill myself and jump out the window.
29:08
Speaker 3: During the nine one one call that Patrick can be
29:11
Speaker 3: heard asking the defendant where are the kids. He later
29:14
Speaker 3: told police that she replied in the basement. So immediately
29:18
Speaker 3: after this happened, she knew what she had done, and she.
29:20
Speaker 2: Knew where the kids were and more.
29:23
Speaker 3: When ems arrived, he asked them to stay with her
29:26
Speaker 3: so he could go find his kids. The nine one
29:29
Speaker 3: one call kept going. Patrick can be heard on.
29:32
Speaker 4: The nine one one.
29:33
Speaker 3: Call, entering the home and heading to the basement. At
29:36
Speaker 3: one point he calls out guys. He can then be
29:39
Speaker 3: heard screaming in agony in shock as he found his children.
29:44
Speaker 3: His screams seemed to get louder and more agonized as
29:47
Speaker 3: the time passes.
29:49
Speaker 4: Cora and Callen were on.
29:51
Speaker 3: The floor in the den area of the finished basement,
29:53
Speaker 3: which is to the left when you walk down the stairs,
29:56
Speaker 3: while Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's
29:59
Speaker 3: home office, which.
30:00
Speaker 4: Is to the right when you go down the stairs.
30:04
Speaker 3: Each child still had the exercise band that was used
30:07
Speaker 3: to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found.
30:10
Speaker 1: Them Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
30:26
Speaker 3: When ems arrived, he asked them to stay with her
30:29
Speaker 3: so he could go find his kids.
30:32
Speaker 4: The nine one one call kept going. Patrick can be heard.
30:35
Speaker 3: On the nine one one call entering the home and.
30:37
Speaker 4: Heading to the basement. At one point he calls out guys.
30:42
Speaker 3: He can then be heard screaming in agony in shock
30:45
Speaker 3: as he found his children. His screams seemed to get
30:49
Speaker 3: louder and more agonized as the time passes.
30:52
Speaker 4: Cora and Callen were on.
30:54
Speaker 3: The floor in the den area of the finished basement,
30:56
Speaker 3: which is to the left when you walk down the stairs.
31:00
Speaker 3: Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office,
31:03
Speaker 3: which is.
31:04
Speaker 4: To the right when you go down the stairs.
31:07
Speaker 3: Each child still had the exercise band that was used
31:10
Speaker 3: to strangle them tied around their necks when their father.
31:13
Speaker 2: Found them to flip. Mcgulgan describe the scene. Dawson and
31:18
Speaker 2: Callen face down on the floor, Cora on her side,
31:21
Speaker 2: her torso turned toward the floor, and Dad had to
31:25
Speaker 2: remove the exercise bands. Is that correct?
31:28
Speaker 8: Yes, it is, And there were a lot of the police,
31:33
Speaker 8: the first responders there also had to take time off
31:36
Speaker 8: some work because of how horrific the time was, including
31:41
Speaker 8: a children's resource officer that usually worked in schools who
31:44
Speaker 8: was taking on a ship that night. But yes, so
31:46
Speaker 8: it was down in the basement there were the children
31:51
Speaker 8: were on the floor, black, purple and blue, and the
31:56
Speaker 8: older ones would die that night.
31:57
Speaker 2: Julie Lewis who's joining me, President CEO of Digital Mountain, Inc.
32:02
Speaker 2: You can find her at Digital Mountain dot com. Julie,
32:06
Speaker 2: if you were investigating this case, what would you be
32:10
Speaker 2: looking at regarding a digital trail?
32:12
Speaker 12: Yeah, when looking at.
32:13
Speaker 13: This case and reading the case background. This went sometime
32:19
Speaker 13: back to September twenty twenty two, and so there would
32:22
Speaker 13: be things that we would look at, for example, the
32:25
Speaker 13: Apple maps when she went to CBS and she went
32:27
Speaker 13: and picked up dinner. We'd be looking at the computers
32:31
Speaker 13: in the browsers for keyword searches that she was running
32:34
Speaker 13: across the devices. My understanding there were three devices, and
32:39
Speaker 13: we would be analyzing for example, she was looking at
32:42
Speaker 13: how to murder her children, and also to look at
32:46
Speaker 13: a pattern wass using social media with a text communication
32:50
Speaker 13: communicating her state of mind. Social media could be a
32:55
Speaker 13: really important part of this in her communications on Instagram
33:00
Speaker 13: or Facebook or whatever social media platform she was using.
33:04
Speaker 13: I know she used hard copy journals, but there may
33:06
Speaker 13: be some notes in there about our state of mind
33:10
Speaker 13: in particular different circumstances as well. In a digital footprint
33:14
Speaker 13: of that, we'd be looking at the CTTV and video
33:19
Speaker 13: footage not only at CBS the restaurant. There may be
33:23
Speaker 13: video footage on ring that may be relevant for this.
33:27
Speaker 13: But you know, in today's digital world, you know, most
33:30
Speaker 13: of us are communicating all our activity and there could
33:34
Speaker 13: be a lot of information about how she was feeling
33:37
Speaker 13: when not only that, you know, the psychiatrist office, there
33:43
Speaker 13: might you know, as attorney's you could see peen of
33:45
Speaker 13: that information to find out what was known? When could
33:49
Speaker 13: this be prevented in some way? She was returning to work,
33:55
Speaker 13: so that that was happening in September twenty two, which
33:58
Speaker 13: may have triggered a lot of anxiety, you know, raising
34:01
Speaker 13: three kids. I don't know, I'm a mother. That's a
34:04
Speaker 13: lot to multitastive, you know, excuse for what she did,
34:07
Speaker 13: but getting ahead of it to prevent the incident in
34:12
Speaker 13: the first place, but lots of digital evidence to figure
34:16
Speaker 13: out the story of what happened when.
34:19
Speaker 2: I'm very curious speaking of the digital trail Flint joining
34:22
Speaker 2: us in Boston, Harold, what were her searches that are
34:27
Speaker 2: concerning to prosecutors.
34:29
Speaker 8: She had done searches regarding like mental states, about how
34:33
Speaker 8: she was feeling, about how she felt about her children
34:37
Speaker 8: and the depression she was feeling, and something about how
34:43
Speaker 8: to deal with if you were I'm trying to think
34:49
Speaker 8: of which word she used. It was like how to
34:53
Speaker 8: deal with being like she was questioning whether she was
34:57
Speaker 8: becoming a sociopath, But it had to do with I
35:00
Speaker 8: think she was feeling She believed that she was feeling
35:03
Speaker 8: postpartum depression, and a lot of the searches had to
35:06
Speaker 8: do with that. But she was clearly doing searches based
35:10
Speaker 8: on strange feelings. She was having a better children.
35:13
Speaker 2: Back to doctor Angie Arnold, the Massachusetts mom accused of
35:17
Speaker 2: killing her three children checked her Apple Maps app to
35:21
Speaker 2: make sure her husband, whom she sent to pick up
35:23
Speaker 2: dinner and meds, but be away long enough for her
35:26
Speaker 2: to strangle her children before he returned. Other details regarding
35:33
Speaker 2: her searches are very, very disturbing. What do you make
35:38
Speaker 2: of that she says she quote kill the kids because
35:41
Speaker 2: she heard a voice and had a quote moment of psychosis, Nancy.
35:47
Speaker 11: What I make of that is that this was a
35:52
Speaker 11: very sick woman and her postpartum depression was not being
35:57
Speaker 11: treated appropriately. I am not blaming anyone for that, but
36:01
Speaker 11: she was ill, and I don't know what she was
36:05
Speaker 11: on at the time, If she were on a two,
36:08
Speaker 11: I just want everyone to know that if she were
36:10
Speaker 11: on too high of a dose of sarah quill, sarahquole
36:14
Speaker 11: makes people very, very sleepy, and it slows them down.
36:20
Speaker 11: I don't believe that that could be blamed for her actions. Okay,
36:25
Speaker 11: but Nancy, she was sick, and I know, Nancy, I
36:29
Speaker 11: feel like I have to be the advocate for these
36:32
Speaker 11: women that I take care of that suffer so horribly
36:34
Speaker 11: from postpartum depression. And believe me, Nancy, it scares me
36:39
Speaker 11: every time one of them comes into my office because
36:43
Speaker 11: they're scared to tell me how they really feel, what's
36:45
Speaker 11: really going through their mind, because they're afraid I'm going
36:48
Speaker 11: to throw them in the hospital. But more than that,
36:50
Speaker 11: they're scared of the thoughts that they're having.
36:53
Speaker 12: And it takes.
36:55
Speaker 11: Months of intensive psychotherapy and the right types of medication
37:00
Speaker 11: to get them better. Okay, someone was trying to get
37:05
Speaker 11: her better, but it sounds like she was going to
37:07
Speaker 11: different places to make that happen, and that's typically not
37:11
Speaker 11: a good thing.
37:12
Speaker 2: So she was doctor shopping and getting more meds.
37:15
Speaker 11: Maybe she was feeling so bad that she would go
37:17
Speaker 11: to somebody else.
37:18
Speaker 2: You know what, doctor Angie. I appreciate everything you just said,
37:21
Speaker 2: but yes, no, doctor Michelle Duprey. Doesn't it take about
37:26
Speaker 2: four minutes to strangle each child?
37:29
Speaker 12: Yes, Nancy, that's about right. And the thing is, you know,
37:31
Speaker 12: once you're strangling them like this is. It's with an
37:34
Speaker 12: object of ligature. They'll pass out. If you keep strangling them,
37:39
Speaker 12: that's when they'll die.
37:40
Speaker 2: Four minutes per child. So, doctor Angie, you said you
37:45
Speaker 2: feel it's your duty to represent the moms suffering from postpartum.
37:52
Speaker 2: I feel it's my duty to speak out for the
37:55
Speaker 2: children that were murdered, specifically Cora Dawson in count As
38:01
Speaker 2: Brian gil and I were discussing. There is no good answer,
38:08
Speaker 2: but we have to find the right answer. We wait
38:13
Speaker 2: as just as unfolds.
38:14
Speaker 4: Goodbye friend,