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Casey Mize Complicates Detroit Tigers Pitching Rotation · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:08
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tiger's podcast.
0:11
Speaker 2: I'm Kien Sectly with.
0:12
Speaker 1: Me as always as a man who isn't a hack,
0:15
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't mind taking a few once he's on
0:17
Speaker 1: the ballfield.
0:18
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhague, and how you.
0:20
Speaker 3: Doing doing all right? Kier? And I'm gonna stick to
0:23
Speaker 3: softball swings these days and want to embarrass myself too much.
0:27
Speaker 3: We did have a fun discussion is it ever acceptable
0:29
Speaker 3: to swing and miss in softball? I think it's a
0:32
Speaker 3: hard no. IM not saying it can't happen, but I'm
0:35
Speaker 3: saying it's never acceptable.
0:37
Speaker 1: All right, So for real quick context on that, I
0:40
Speaker 1: did have a strikeout and slow pitch softball recently, but
0:43
Speaker 1: it's a one pitch league and the ball was over
0:46
Speaker 1: my head and I just didn't want to walk. So
0:50
Speaker 1: you guys could tell us if that's acceptable or not.
0:53
Speaker 1: You're gonna get at Cody Stavenhge. I here, unders course, Declee,
0:56
Speaker 1: is that an acceptable way? Because I agree with your
0:58
Speaker 1: general premise. I just think specific circumstances make it make
1:03
Speaker 1: an exception. But we'll see it is certainly acceptable to
1:06
Speaker 1: swing and miss when you are going up against one
1:10
Speaker 1: Jackson Job. Actually, I would love to step in the
1:12
Speaker 1: box against any of these guys with the real electric stuff,
1:15
Speaker 1: just because, like I wouldn't even try to so I
1:16
Speaker 1: would endy a buying as it. I just want to
1:18
Speaker 1: see what that's like to like have the ball move
1:21
Speaker 1: like that, you know, coming at you. I've obviously never
1:24
Speaker 1: experienced anything like that. I think it'd be a lot
1:25
Speaker 1: of fun. George plump and style. So Jackson Joe was
1:29
Speaker 1: kind of the talk of camp today, Cody, because we
1:31
Speaker 1: got our first like kind of gamish action with him.
1:36
Speaker 1: And the term that we have here on the graphic
1:39
Speaker 1: is electric. So you were there, you saw, you watched
1:43
Speaker 1: it's on your first Jackson Job experience. What was the
1:46
Speaker 1: electricity of Jackson Job today?
1:50
Speaker 3: It was a reminder that this guy should be on
1:53
Speaker 3: the team. And it's really not a very hard decision.
1:56
Speaker 3: I mean, his stuff is just different, I would argue,
2:02
Speaker 3: maybe even different than like Trek Scoogles, But no one
2:05
Speaker 3: else on the Tiger staff comes close in terms of
2:07
Speaker 3: just sheer potency of the pitch mix. The fastball velocity
2:12
Speaker 3: is nasty. We know he has good breaking stuff. The
2:15
Speaker 3: change ups become his best pitch. But one thing Jackson
2:19
Speaker 3: Job did not do as well is he wanted to
2:21
Speaker 3: last year was miss bats induced swing and miss. He
2:25
Speaker 3: can do this with the best of him, and he
2:27
Speaker 3: did an okay level in the minors, but not really
2:29
Speaker 3: an elite level. So what do you do? Went back
2:33
Speaker 3: to the drawing board, altered his pitch mix. He's thrown
2:36
Speaker 3: this nasty, huge sweeper that we've raved about for years.
2:40
Speaker 3: Started realizing it was hard to get hits to chase.
2:43
Speaker 3: It's not really a pitchy could land in the zone
2:46
Speaker 3: very well. If he did, they wouldn't miss it. So
2:49
Speaker 3: he adopts a curveball, truer curveball, a little bit more
2:53
Speaker 3: north south. Those are our first time seeing this live.
2:56
Speaker 3: Maybe I think there's some video of Job facing a
2:59
Speaker 3: hitter at his facility in Oklahoma, but this is probably
3:02
Speaker 3: his first time facing like real live hitters thrown in
3:05
Speaker 3: the game stadium. This curveball was sick, dude, I'm telling
3:10
Speaker 3: you it was. It was nasty. It didn't appear to
3:12
Speaker 3: really pop out of his hand. It looked like a
3:14
Speaker 3: game ready pitch. He faced Ryan Kreidler, Jace Young. I
3:19
Speaker 3: want to say when sel Perez was the third batter,
3:21
Speaker 3: not positive on that one. They all were fooled at
3:24
Speaker 3: times by the curveball. Job was really pleased with it,
3:28
Speaker 3: Robin Lund was pleased with it. Jake Rogers was raving
3:32
Speaker 3: about it afterward. And the other stuff happened to look
3:35
Speaker 3: really good too. Like, for reference, Reese Olsen had thrown
3:39
Speaker 3: right before Job, and I thought Reese looked really good.
3:41
Speaker 3: His stuff was moving, you know, east west all over
3:43
Speaker 3: the place, and I was like, okay, Reese, and then
3:46
Speaker 3: Jackson showed up, and it's like, for like, the difference
3:49
Speaker 3: between like a high school pitcher and a D one pitcher,
3:53
Speaker 3: Like it was just I mean, it was just a
3:55
Speaker 3: different level. We've talked about not wanting to overreact to
3:59
Speaker 3: bullpins and I've vps, but even just watching this guy,
4:04
Speaker 3: it's a reminder of just how good he is, how
4:06
Speaker 3: good he can be. Of course, he will have to
4:08
Speaker 3: execute some of his pitches better. I'll have to continue
4:11
Speaker 3: to locate and get ahead with the fastball. We'll see
4:16
Speaker 3: if this curveball holds up on a you know, every
4:19
Speaker 3: fifth day or whatever. But if I'm Scott Harris and
4:23
Speaker 3: I'm watching that. I don't know man that, like you
4:27
Speaker 3: said last last episode, those aren't really bullets. I want
4:30
Speaker 3: to be wasting in Triple A.
4:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's an element to Joe right now that
4:41
Speaker 1: I can't kind of get out of my head, and
4:43
Speaker 1: it actually somewhat has nothing to do with him. I
4:45
Speaker 1: go back to our terror schoobl conversation, which you can
4:49
Speaker 1: go listen to that episode watch it on YouTube. Is
4:51
Speaker 1: very fascinating and there's even some hardcore pitchure stuff in
4:55
Speaker 1: there for you Hardy's out there. He talked about the
5:01
Speaker 1: like fastball got me here, fastball gonna get people out
5:05
Speaker 1: at the major league level, and he found out the
5:07
Speaker 1: hard way that's not always the case.
5:10
Speaker 2: Uh.
5:12
Speaker 1: This is non indictment of previous administrations or coaches who
5:16
Speaker 1: I'm sure were all capable and had an idea of
5:19
Speaker 1: how to do their job.
5:20
Speaker 3: So I don't want to that way some of them did.
5:24
Speaker 1: However, However, that's not my main point here. However, you
5:29
Speaker 1: have to think that with aj with Fetter, with lun
5:34
Speaker 1: with the entire infrastructure, with everybody behind the scenes, that
5:38
Speaker 1: although we can expect a learning curve for Jackson, Joe
5:43
Speaker 1: just like anybody else.
5:45
Speaker 2: You would wager.
5:47
Speaker 1: That that's going to be an easier one to steer
5:51
Speaker 1: than what schoobl went through, what Mas went through, what
5:55
Speaker 1: probably the majority of other guys around the league are
5:58
Speaker 1: gonna have to go through. If you belie leave in
6:00
Speaker 1: the in the infrastructure the Tigers have built all the same.
6:04
Speaker 2: So is that as solid.
6:07
Speaker 1: We haven't talked about that being a reason to keep
6:12
Speaker 1: or to have Joe break not break north with the team,
6:15
Speaker 1: but break west with the team.
6:17
Speaker 2: Is that you have everything in place to curve.
6:22
Speaker 1: What would what will be rookie struggles, but it's not
6:24
Speaker 1: gonna be, in theory be as pronounced because you have
6:27
Speaker 1: talent and then you have coaching infrastructure to get the
6:30
Speaker 1: most out of him sooner.
6:32
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, Yeah, I.
6:35
Speaker 3: Don't know for sure. I mean, obviously the Tigers know
6:39
Speaker 3: what they're doing with pitching, and we say that all
6:40
Speaker 3: the time. You would think they would know what to
6:43
Speaker 3: do with a top notch pitching prospect like Jackson Job. Yeah,
6:50
Speaker 3: have more time around Chris Vetter, Robin Lund in theory,
6:53
Speaker 3: that could not hurt him, you know, aj Hinch didn't
6:58
Speaker 3: want to set expectations. Yeah, the good quote that was like,
7:02
Speaker 3: all that does is set limitations, and I don't want
7:04
Speaker 3: to do that. I would say, I don't want to
7:07
Speaker 3: set expectations. Kind of in another SiZ is like you
7:10
Speaker 3: just never know. I don't know that job is going
7:12
Speaker 3: to come out and be Paul Skeens. I don't know
7:14
Speaker 3: that he's going to have a sub three er. I
7:17
Speaker 3: do think he can be very good. As you said,
7:20
Speaker 3: there would be some growing pains. I think some of
7:23
Speaker 3: the struggles I mean struggles but like inconsistencies he's had
7:28
Speaker 3: with execution do remind me of a young Schooble. But
7:32
Speaker 3: I think he's more advanced than even Schooble was at
7:35
Speaker 3: that stage in his career. And certainly the stuff just
7:39
Speaker 3: plays on a different level than Mize and manning. The
7:42
Speaker 3: arsenal is more varied, So there's going to be some
7:46
Speaker 3: learn on the fly, I think, regardless of where he's
7:49
Speaker 3: at or what level or who's coaching him. But in theory,
7:52
Speaker 3: there's a good system in place to get the best
7:54
Speaker 3: out of this guy.
7:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he.
7:56
Speaker 1: Certainly validated all the I would say pitcher over position
8:05
Speaker 1: player debates to this point. To this point, still a
8:08
Speaker 1: lot to be written at the time of his drafting's.
8:11
Speaker 3: Still have a nice shortstop.
8:14
Speaker 1: To his extent, he has validated him to his extent,
8:20
Speaker 1: he has validated them. And to that end, you compared
8:24
Speaker 1: him to a young schoolbl I mean Schooll was obviously
8:28
Speaker 1: a college pitcher. He was older, like school, had a
8:31
Speaker 1: lot more pitching years, and therefore, in theory, pitching nohow
8:37
Speaker 1: under his belt than Jackson Joe, who essentially since he's
8:41
Speaker 1: been a pro has been learning on the fly because
8:44
Speaker 1: he has never dedicated his life to pitching up until
8:47
Speaker 1: he was drafted. Even then it's really a year later
8:50
Speaker 1: because they didn't have him do anything after he was drafted.
8:52
Speaker 2: So like, in addition to.
8:54
Speaker 1: Being a young guy, he is really a young pitcher,
8:56
Speaker 1: and I think that would be that's something that key
9:00
Speaker 1: in mind both ways. That's something to keep in mind
9:02
Speaker 1: in terms of how you judge him with the intricacies
9:06
Speaker 1: of and feels for pitching in a major league game,
9:11
Speaker 1: but also like the way to be excited for what
9:14
Speaker 1: he could be, if that makes sense. And as we
9:16
Speaker 1: talked about last week, Scott Harris, he is a he's
9:20
Speaker 1: a draft pick guy. He loves him some draft picks.
9:24
Speaker 1: You're probably not going to have as good a chance
9:29
Speaker 1: at picking up one of those picks for the prospect
9:32
Speaker 1: as you would a Jackson job this season. So like,
9:36
Speaker 1: you know, never say never on that, but when this opportunity,
9:39
Speaker 1: that's why they put that in the CBA. When this
9:41
Speaker 1: opportunity comes along, it's kind of hard to like turn
9:44
Speaker 1: it down. So I like how you started that looked
9:47
Speaker 1: like it's not even particularly close that he should be
9:50
Speaker 1: in the Major?
9:52
Speaker 3: Is that another reaction, Mike, Mike doing what I hate
9:55
Speaker 3: overreacting to like one little thing in spring training? Maybe
9:57
Speaker 3: I am, Well, it's just like any stout can watch
10:01
Speaker 3: that and be like that's.
10:02
Speaker 2: Special, validating what you already thought.
10:05
Speaker 1: So it's not like you've watched it and then you
10:07
Speaker 1: were like, man, he's got electric stuff.
10:09
Speaker 2: We knew he had electric stuff.
10:10
Speaker 3: So this whole curveball thing, like, I do want to
10:14
Speaker 3: see it again. You know, it was great today, Will
10:18
Speaker 3: it be as good next time out? That's something to
10:20
Speaker 3: watch for in his first spring training outing and really
10:23
Speaker 3: for the rest of spring.
10:27
Speaker 2: Well.
10:27
Speaker 1: Another thing though, to watch out for Cody is one
10:32
Speaker 1: Casey Mice. We we've talked a little bit about Casey Mice.
10:35
Speaker 2: We we both have holdouts is a good way to
10:43
Speaker 2: put it.
10:43
Speaker 1: Like I've talked for years about like it just you
10:46
Speaker 1: watch you watch a full Casey Mice outing and you're
10:49
Speaker 1: kind of getting there, getting there, getting there, and then
10:53
Speaker 1: he gives up the three runs. You see what I'm saying,
10:56
Speaker 1: And the location is you can tell the location is
10:58
Speaker 1: not where it's supposed to be, and like all these
11:00
Speaker 1: kind of things, and he's injured. All this stuff you
11:02
Speaker 1: wrote about him, and you talked with him, and he's
11:06
Speaker 1: a guy that then we'll talk about a couple here later.
11:09
Speaker 1: He's a guy that, to paraphrase and Ernie Harwell, could
11:14
Speaker 1: be like the house on the side of the road
11:16
Speaker 1: as the team goes by, because like as of now,
11:19
Speaker 1: he's not slotted in there as of now, but you
11:25
Speaker 1: read his words, you read your story and all these numbers,
11:28
Speaker 1: and it's like you kind.
11:30
Speaker 2: Of want him still to be there.
11:32
Speaker 1: Cody, like the graphic we have right here, can't quit
11:35
Speaker 1: Casey Miies. I'm I can tell you this much.
11:37
Speaker 2: I'm not quitting. I'm not quitting.
11:39
Speaker 3: No, I certainly would not give up on this guy.
11:42
Speaker 3: I don't know when it's all going to click, but
11:44
Speaker 3: he very much falls in that bucket of it's not
11:47
Speaker 3: really a guy you want to see go into another
11:49
Speaker 3: organization because he's always been kind of this one click
11:53
Speaker 3: away from putting it all together, and it hasn't happened,
11:56
Speaker 3: and it's been frustrating. And I've been critical of miz
12:01
Speaker 3: as a pitcher at times, just like the ability to
12:04
Speaker 3: generate bats, Like you got to call it what it is,
12:06
Speaker 3: what it is. But Casey's so thoughtful, he's so smart.
12:10
Speaker 3: He puts in the work, and he checked off a
12:13
Speaker 3: couple of spring training cliches. He went to drive line,
12:17
Speaker 3: which not many notable Tigers pitchers have done in the
12:19
Speaker 3: past few years. But he said you wanted different eyes
12:22
Speaker 3: on him, different opinions on him. Kind of an interesting comment.
12:26
Speaker 3: And he's toying with some new pitches. He's now got
12:28
Speaker 3: three variations of the slider, the one he threw last year,
12:32
Speaker 3: a bigger one that's more of a sweeper, and I
12:35
Speaker 3: guess another one that's kind of it's a little more
12:37
Speaker 3: north south, a little more depth to it. And that's
12:40
Speaker 3: all in effort to mispatch, generate swing and miss. But
12:45
Speaker 3: maybe the most interesting thing he said he wants to
12:47
Speaker 3: get back to using the splitter. More. I kind of
12:51
Speaker 3: almost had a theory that, like, maybe we gotta stop
12:54
Speaker 3: labeling myes, like, oh, he's the splitter guy, because that's
12:57
Speaker 3: what he was out of the drafts, what he was
12:59
Speaker 3: why he's the number one pick. But as he's evolved,
13:01
Speaker 3: that's not really his game. The splitter has not been
13:05
Speaker 3: very good for him in the major leagues as a
13:07
Speaker 3: negative run value, but Mice said he wants to get
13:11
Speaker 3: back to it. He does still view it as his
13:13
Speaker 3: calling card. He hopes in an effort to do that,
13:17
Speaker 3: he can throw the four seam, still throw it up
13:19
Speaker 3: in the zone, but also begin using it down in
13:22
Speaker 3: the zone a little bit to kind of create a
13:24
Speaker 3: different look for the hitter so that when a hitter
13:26
Speaker 3: sees something down they don't automatically assume splitter and take,
13:30
Speaker 3: if that makes any sense. So these are some of
13:32
Speaker 3: the things Casey is working on a lot of tinkering,
13:36
Speaker 3: a lot of tweaks. Mies has always kind of done this.
13:39
Speaker 3: I watched his bullpen the other day. It was I
13:43
Speaker 3: don't know, it was fine. I feel like the command
13:45
Speaker 3: wasn't a thousand percent sharp. He threw a few nice sliders,
13:49
Speaker 3: kind of got some awkward swings. I didn't have the
13:52
Speaker 3: best angle, but I didn't think he threw many splitters.
13:56
Speaker 3: If he did, definitely not any that totally fooled the
13:59
Speaker 3: hitter or what. So I'll be interested to watch him.
14:02
Speaker 3: He's gonna throw, I believe, Sunday against the Yankees in Tampa.
14:06
Speaker 3: It is hard to see where he slots in. Assuming
14:09
Speaker 3: we're putting Jackson job in this rotation. Kin Tomita is
14:12
Speaker 3: gonna be on this roster somehow. Mice would have to
14:15
Speaker 3: pitch really well, and probably maid I would have to
14:17
Speaker 3: pitch poorly enough to get moved to the pin. But
14:21
Speaker 3: if Casey Mice can do a couple of the right things,
14:23
Speaker 3: he could certainly be an option for the Tigers this year.
14:27
Speaker 3: Stow waiting on a couple of things to click. But
14:29
Speaker 3: the ingredients are there. And I noted this is my
14:31
Speaker 3: story last year frustrating as it was at times highest
14:34
Speaker 3: ground ball rate of his career, highest first pitch strike
14:36
Speaker 3: percentage of his career. So improve the stuff a little bit.
14:40
Speaker 3: You got a good recipe, so he should be noted.
14:44
Speaker 2: He is.
14:46
Speaker 1: He's gonna turn twenty eight this season, so like and
14:50
Speaker 1: you look at like his profile, it's like you know,
14:52
Speaker 1: he doesn't have that much time left before you start
14:55
Speaker 1: getting into you know, major free agency stuff, you know, so, uh,
14:59
Speaker 1: it's not quite there, but it's it's kind of shocking
15:02
Speaker 1: when you look at it for the first time. And
15:04
Speaker 1: also there's a quote in there Cody that I really liked,
15:08
Speaker 1: and it's such a a my self reflection that it's like,
15:12
Speaker 1: of course he's looking at it this way. And also
15:14
Speaker 1: I don't know if we if we get this understanding
15:20
Speaker 1: under another regime, but he's like, as my body changed
15:23
Speaker 1: the way I move around the mound, the pitch is
15:26
Speaker 1: changed coming out of my hand, talking about the splitter,
15:28
Speaker 1: and I just love that he like, you know, Tommy
15:32
Speaker 1: John back injury just general, like you write your stories
15:36
Speaker 1: like even more muscular, just general, like the body is
15:39
Speaker 1: still changing in the twenties, you know, so like in
15:43
Speaker 1: such an elastic motion that is pitching, like that would
15:47
Speaker 1: make sense that that's an adjustment too, And if he
15:50
Speaker 1: is able to kind of better know his body, maybe
15:55
Speaker 1: better know it than he has his entire professional career,
15:58
Speaker 1: at least major league career, like that's something that could
16:01
Speaker 1: net like a positive impact on and maybe get something
16:06
Speaker 1: closer to what he was drafted to be I just
16:08
Speaker 1: thought that was, like.
16:08
Speaker 3: Really, it is an interesting quote and one I wish
16:11
Speaker 3: I could have dove into a little bit deeper, but
16:13
Speaker 3: that would have been probably a whole, like twenty minute
16:16
Speaker 3: sidetrack conversation with Casey, and I think he was about
16:19
Speaker 3: ready to get out of the clubhouse, so we didn't
16:21
Speaker 3: fully go into that. I am curious, like how the
16:24
Speaker 3: body affects the way his splitter moved. Last year, he
16:26
Speaker 3: just thought having a healthy back would help the splitter
16:29
Speaker 3: if he was able to quote unquote like apply the
16:32
Speaker 3: brakes coming down the slope, that could help get the
16:35
Speaker 3: right action on a splitter. Didn't really work out that way.
16:38
Speaker 3: So not entirely sure the full explanation of that quote,
16:42
Speaker 3: but it is interesting and it does kind of confirm
16:46
Speaker 3: the theory that it is a little bit of a
16:47
Speaker 3: different pitch than it was the day he was drafted. Yeah, and.
16:53
Speaker 2: Somewhat of a victim of the team's success.
16:56
Speaker 1: He's not the only one, but a victim of the
16:58
Speaker 1: team's success because there's enough here that you would like
17:00
Speaker 1: to give still some runway, but when the stakes are raised,
17:04
Speaker 1: sometimes you can't always afford to do that. At the
17:07
Speaker 1: same level, real quick, Cody, let's let's go to like
17:14
Speaker 1: a listener submitted question. This comes from Christian AJ Hinch's
17:21
Speaker 1: gone of getting at the top of top managers and
17:25
Speaker 1: baseball lists, and obviously these things are arbitrary.
17:29
Speaker 2: But then I was like, well.
17:31
Speaker 1: That's why, maybe the last arbitrary thing and left in
17:36
Speaker 1: baseball with all the stats and analytics and everything being
17:41
Speaker 1: like scrutinized frame by frame, like how you judge a
17:45
Speaker 1: manager might be like the like I said, the last
17:48
Speaker 1: arbitrary thing, now you have a Manager of the Year votes.
17:50
Speaker 1: I thought it'd be a fun couple of minute discussion
17:52
Speaker 1: here before games get going in the twenty twenty five season,
17:57
Speaker 1: and I'll say my spield and then I'll kind of
17:59
Speaker 1: throw it to you. You're in a clubhouse with twenty
18:04
Speaker 1: six go the number when you start out, you know,
18:07
Speaker 1: in spring training, and those obviously interchanging, so you're having
18:11
Speaker 1: like forty fifty guys. I'm just making up numbers that
18:14
Speaker 1: you're gonna you share buses, planes, locker rooms with and
18:20
Speaker 1: you have to command all of them and you have
18:21
Speaker 1: to have a sense for all of them for one
18:24
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two games, hopefully more I look at
18:29
Speaker 1: how players talk about managers and the way that they
18:34
Speaker 1: are revered and trusted. You don't have to be feared,
18:38
Speaker 1: but like revered and trusted, And AJ has quotes like
18:41
Speaker 1: that in spades. We've heard this on this heard that
18:45
Speaker 1: on this podcast. You hear that from other players. The
18:48
Speaker 1: fact that you know, the Carl's Korea thing that we've
18:50
Speaker 1: joked about, Like that's a real thing, that's a real
18:53
Speaker 1: relationship thing to drop off gifts for a former player
18:56
Speaker 1: that you know is about to have a baby. Hey,
19:01
Speaker 1: Austin Jackson on this podcast has talked about some of
19:04
Speaker 1: those things with Jim Leland and why like that worked,
19:07
Speaker 1: And that's obviously Leland and Hine come from different eras
19:11
Speaker 1: of the game. So I kind of look at the
19:13
Speaker 1: way people talk about you and how much of a
19:15
Speaker 1: leader you are, because those things I think are I
19:22
Speaker 1: don't want to say more important, but anyone can probably
19:26
Speaker 1: figure out look at the stats and be like, yeah,
19:27
Speaker 1: it's probably better put a lefty here against this lefty hitter.
19:31
Speaker 1: Not everybody has a feel for people, if that makes sense.
19:34
Speaker 1: Not to dismiss all the other stuff that AJ does,
19:36
Speaker 1: but I feel like he has a good feel for people.
19:37
Speaker 1: I think he has a good feel for you guys
19:39
Speaker 1: in the media, you know, so, like, I just think
19:42
Speaker 1: those are the kind of the qualities that I judge
19:44
Speaker 1: managers based on.
19:45
Speaker 2: And obviously it's a win last league, you know, you
19:47
Speaker 2: gotta win games.
19:48
Speaker 1: But that's kind of my spiel, Cody, what about you?
19:53
Speaker 3: Wait, what's the question here?
19:55
Speaker 2: Well, how do you judge a manager? How do I mean?
19:57
Speaker 3: I think we got a question about manager war or like,
20:00
Speaker 3: is there a manager war? There's not like an official one.
20:03
Speaker 3: You can do some deep dives on the internet and
20:07
Speaker 3: find a couple of attempts to quantify managers or create
20:10
Speaker 3: some sort of manager war. None of them are fully
20:14
Speaker 3: satisfying to me. A common one you'll see is basically
20:19
Speaker 3: based on like Pythagorean records, so runs allowed, run scored,
20:24
Speaker 3: you can project a record based on that, and then
20:27
Speaker 3: did the team exceed those expectations. That's kind of like
20:31
Speaker 3: a I don't know, like that, I don't think that
20:34
Speaker 3: really accounts for the nuance of what goes into winning
20:37
Speaker 3: a game or not winning a game. I don't know, like,
20:40
Speaker 3: it doesn't really explain how those overachieving or underachieving happened.
20:48
Speaker 3: So that's why it's hard. That's why I talk about
20:51
Speaker 3: Manager of the Year being a very difficult vote. I
20:54
Speaker 3: do think it's funny now AJ's number one on all
20:57
Speaker 3: these lists. I think I've seen at least two, but
21:00
Speaker 3: the only one who voted for him for Manager of
21:01
Speaker 3: the Year I was on an island. Then where were
21:04
Speaker 3: you guys? But it's so hard, and they're good tactical
21:10
Speaker 3: managers who maybe don't have great clubhouse skills. And they
21:13
Speaker 3: are great clubhouse managers who maybe aren't as good as
21:17
Speaker 3: tactical managers. I don't know that there's a great way
21:21
Speaker 3: to quantify it, even if you even with all the
21:23
Speaker 3: metrics we have, there's a reason no one's come up
21:26
Speaker 3: with a great way to quantify a manager. You just
21:29
Speaker 3: can't quite do it. And it's not like football where
21:32
Speaker 3: you can base everything on scheme, and like, how innovative
21:35
Speaker 3: is this? I don't have a great answer to this question.
21:38
Speaker 3: I've thought about it a lot. I think the best
21:41
Speaker 3: thing to do is watch a game and think did
21:44
Speaker 3: the manager manage this game well or did he manage
21:46
Speaker 3: this game poorly? That's subjective, but I've watched a lot
21:50
Speaker 3: of games and about ninety five percent of them, I've
21:55
Speaker 3: walked away saying, and aj Hinch managed that game very well.
22:00
Speaker 1: You also spent some time with the new White Sox manager,
22:03
Speaker 1: Well Venerable, and that's going to be one of his challenges.
22:06
Speaker 1: He's again one of those younger guy former player types.
22:09
Speaker 1: Will see how he does.
22:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, real quick, while we're on that, Yeah, So, I
22:13
Speaker 3: wrote a profile of Will Vinable and the athletic Why
22:16
Speaker 3: did this highly sought after managerial candidate sign up to
22:19
Speaker 3: manage the White Sox? He had declined other interviews before.
22:23
Speaker 3: So hope you guys will go check out that story
22:25
Speaker 3: give some insight into a division rival as well. One
22:29
Speaker 3: of the interesting things Chris gets in that story said,
22:32
Speaker 3: you know, I think the manager job is bigger than
22:34
Speaker 3: it used to be, and that's worth noting too. Like
22:37
Speaker 3: some managers, you know, I don't think Bruce Bochie. Maybe
22:41
Speaker 3: I'm speaking out turn. I don't think Bruce Bochi's paying
22:43
Speaker 3: that much attention to prospects. You know, some managers have
22:48
Speaker 3: more power than others, more say than others. One thing,
22:50
Speaker 3: one reason Vinable went to the White Sox. He was
22:53
Speaker 3: going to be given a hand and building the systems,
22:57
Speaker 3: whatever that means. But how they do things. I'm sure
23:00
Speaker 3: he will be involved in player development and free agent
23:03
Speaker 3: acquisitions and a lot of the things that that are
23:07
Speaker 3: a little bit in the mold of an aj Hinch
23:09
Speaker 3: in terms of just having more of a hand on
23:11
Speaker 3: the whole organization. Not every manager is like that, but
23:15
Speaker 3: some managers are great at that. Some managers have no involvement.
23:18
Speaker 3: That's something you can't quantify. Yeah, there you go.
23:22
Speaker 1: And now also great insight, because I a few things
23:26
Speaker 1: get me going, like why did person X take X job?
23:30
Speaker 1: It's like, man, there's a lot of these jobs and
23:33
Speaker 1: you get an opportunity to do something like that, like,
23:35
Speaker 1: it's it's hard.
23:35
Speaker 2: It's hard to turn down.
23:36
Speaker 3: I don't know if I would have signed up for
23:38
Speaker 3: the White Sox job. Man, that's tough. Vinable is super smart.
23:42
Speaker 3: I like Chris gets a lot too. These guys could
23:45
Speaker 3: do great work and still just be fired in four
23:47
Speaker 3: or five years. That's just how it goes. It's tough.
23:52
Speaker 1: There's no arbitration and contracts are guaranteed, so it's it's
23:55
Speaker 1: it's it's it's.
23:56
Speaker 2: Not all that bad.
23:57
Speaker 1: Uh, all right, speaking of not guaranteed, I I had
24:06
Speaker 1: a thought, Cody, I was. I was going through the
24:08
Speaker 1: thought exercises, and I was like.
24:10
Speaker 2: Hmm.
24:12
Speaker 1: Hmmm, how certain are we about Trey Sweeney making this
24:16
Speaker 1: team because it was like an assumption, I would say,
24:26
Speaker 1: kind of before we got an idea of Javier Bias's health.
24:29
Speaker 1: Javier Bias is on the track. I forget what the
24:33
Speaker 1: term they use in the in the in the injury
24:36
Speaker 1: report that they put out, but it's like, you know,
24:38
Speaker 1: baseball activities and and you know, return the play program
24:42
Speaker 1: or whatever they're saying.
24:43
Speaker 2: But he's doing a lot.
24:44
Speaker 1: It seems like he's doing a lot. He's going through
24:46
Speaker 1: the tests, and he's got three years. He's gonna be
24:50
Speaker 1: playing baseball for to Troy Tigers unless somebody just really
24:54
Speaker 1: needs somebody with the initials JB on their roster and
24:58
Speaker 1: they decided to.
24:58
Speaker 3: Trade for him.
25:00
Speaker 1: Unlikely, but I guess highly unlikely, I would say, so.
25:08
Speaker 2: The Sweeney part of it.
25:10
Speaker 1: We talked about McKinstry, and you know, maybe there's a
25:14
Speaker 1: big brain element there from the front office, but Sweeney
25:18
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like if you think mckinstrey's guaranteed
25:22
Speaker 1: and obviously Hobby ain't going anywhere, and you do the
25:26
Speaker 1: roster thing, like we did earlier, this last week, things
25:30
Speaker 1: are getting crunched, and I'm like, could are we not
25:34
Speaker 1: giving enough weight to the possibility of Trey Sweeney not
25:37
Speaker 1: starting the year in Detroit. Keep in mind, as crucial
25:41
Speaker 1: and as memorable as he was, it's not unlike he
25:45
Speaker 1: had a lot of playing time, like like he was
25:47
Speaker 1: a starter every day. But he logs one hundred and
25:50
Speaker 1: ten at bats, is what I'm saying. Like, it's like,
25:51
Speaker 1: it's not like he's an established major leaguer. So as
25:55
Speaker 1: fun as it was watching him, So what do you think?
25:59
Speaker 1: What do you think of about Tray sweeney is roster
26:02
Speaker 1: standing as of now?
26:03
Speaker 3: Well, I think we are giving it weight. That's why
26:05
Speaker 3: we're talking about it right now, because the closer you look,
26:08
Speaker 3: the easier it is to see a world in which
26:10
Speaker 3: Tray Sweeney begins the year in Toledo. And that's highly
26:13
Speaker 3: surprising in some ways. We did a roster projection a
26:16
Speaker 3: couple episodes ago. I had Sweeney on and I had
26:18
Speaker 3: Zach mckinsrey off. I'm not sure it's a coincidence that
26:22
Speaker 3: the next day aj Hinch was asked about McKinstry and
26:26
Speaker 3: gave what I think was his most glowing quote review
26:31
Speaker 3: of a player all spring. I don't have the whole
26:33
Speaker 3: thing transcribed, but part of it was we've had a
26:35
Speaker 3: lot of talks behind the scenes about how valuable his
26:38
Speaker 3: role is and where he fits. Aj said several more
26:43
Speaker 3: sentences or paragraphs about mckinstrey, and after that, I was like,
26:47
Speaker 3: he's going to be on the team, isn't he? But
26:50
Speaker 3: if you again, if you don't get what I'm saying,
26:53
Speaker 3: I'm telling you just attempt to dry out a lineup
26:55
Speaker 3: against left handed pitching. And I have a very hard
26:59
Speaker 3: time seeing Tray Sweeney, Jace Young, and Zach McKinstry all
27:04
Speaker 3: being on this team. Maybe I'm wrong, but we know
27:08
Speaker 3: how much the Tigers care about matchups and platoons, and
27:10
Speaker 3: so it's like, which one of those guys are you
27:12
Speaker 3: going to choose? Mckinstrey we talked about, you know, the
27:16
Speaker 3: Tigers could easily DFA him and get him back, but
27:19
Speaker 3: he is out of options. Sweeney and Young have options.
27:23
Speaker 3: Jase is your only left handed third baseman. Sweeney and
27:28
Speaker 3: mckinsree are both left handed shortstops, kind of a duplicate role,
27:32
Speaker 3: but mckinstrey also plays outfield. Mckinsrey has more experience. After
27:38
Speaker 3: listening to a J. Hinch this week, I think if
27:40
Speaker 3: I were redo that roster projection, I would put Trey
27:43
Speaker 3: Sweeney in Toledo. I'm not sure that's necessarily what I
27:45
Speaker 3: would do if I were running the Tigers, but I
27:49
Speaker 3: think there's a you know, very real, very real chance
27:53
Speaker 3: that can happen, which kind of surprising, wasn't that long
27:55
Speaker 3: ago Scott Harris said, you know, we think we got
27:58
Speaker 3: an every day shortstop in Tray Sween, and they may
28:01
Speaker 3: still feel that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that
28:03
Speaker 3: that that's how that's not usually going to break camp.
28:07
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, were one injury away from none of
28:09
Speaker 3: these tops.
28:10
Speaker 1: At Also, yeah, and look, he, like I said, he
28:13
Speaker 1: only had one hundred and ten at bats. That's one
28:16
Speaker 1: hundred and nineteen plate appearances to eighteen average four home runs.
28:22
Speaker 1: He doesn't register enough to get on the percent tiles
28:25
Speaker 1: on a lot of this stuff, but he it's very
28:27
Speaker 1: clear if you look at his profile on Baseball Savants
28:32
Speaker 1: that the dude can swing the stick with the best
28:35
Speaker 1: of them. In terms of bat speed. He has a really, really,
28:40
Speaker 1: really good hard hit percentage, and he is capable of
28:43
Speaker 1: launching that ball off his bat at a high velocity.
28:47
Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of hole I would say a lot,
28:49
Speaker 1: but there are obvious holes to what And look, he
28:52
Speaker 1: hit two eighteen, so it's not like I'm breaking news here,
28:55
Speaker 1: but like there are holes to his offensive game, but
28:59
Speaker 1: there is a enough there that it's like, man, if
29:01
Speaker 1: you could really hone in on that, you kind of
29:04
Speaker 1: have something. And I like to get to for trace
29:09
Speaker 1: Weenie to be something, it's still a good thing. I
29:10
Speaker 1: don't want to make it seem like I'm you know,
29:12
Speaker 1: downgrading his like status on the team, but like if
29:16
Speaker 1: he were like a pitcher, fetter and hitchin company would
29:19
Speaker 1: be able to put him in the most opportune spots
29:22
Speaker 1: to use is like two or three like best attributes. Unfortunately,
29:27
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily work like that as a as a hitter.
29:31
Speaker 1: Just for people that are curious for fielding, he ranks
29:35
Speaker 1: in the seventy nine percent tile for range, twenty seven
29:38
Speaker 1: percent tile for arm strength, and he's also in the
29:41
Speaker 1: seventy three percent tile for speed, So take that for
29:44
Speaker 1: whatever it's worth. I think there's there's still a lot
29:49
Speaker 1: to unpack here with Tray Sweeney I just don't know. Again,
29:54
Speaker 1: if you just like, if you just have if you
29:57
Speaker 1: have the ability to give him all the reps needed
30:01
Speaker 1: to unpack that. So maybe Toledo wouldn't be the worst
30:03
Speaker 1: thing in the world, as he said, an injury away
30:06
Speaker 1: and none of this matters. Uh, all right, let's let
30:11
Speaker 1: let's let's end on this, Cody. There was a special
30:15
Speaker 1: guest today. Obviously it's not a guess, that's a joke.
30:18
Speaker 1: There was a new there was a new face, new
30:20
Speaker 1: old familiar face on the field in Lakeland today, and
30:23
Speaker 1: that was one mister Chris Illich. Now the last, the
30:28
Speaker 1: last time that I saw him on my screen as
30:33
Speaker 1: consistently it was when he was getting dowsed in various
30:38
Speaker 1: uh beer brands in the clubhouse at Comerica Park. That
30:42
Speaker 1: was probably his last most public appearance. And you know,
30:47
Speaker 1: kudos to him for turning up. That looks like a
30:49
Speaker 1: lot of fun.
30:50
Speaker 2: Uh.
30:52
Speaker 1: He does look like he's still a pretty good He
30:54
Speaker 1: looked a good shape then, Cody, he still looks.
30:56
Speaker 2: A pretty good shape right now. Maybe he should get
30:57
Speaker 2: in the batter's box against Jackson.
30:59
Speaker 3: Joe. I did seem to do like a weird batting
31:02
Speaker 3: stance at one point maybe they were talking about like
31:05
Speaker 3: how to game the abs. But regardless, we're out on
31:08
Speaker 3: We're out on Chrysolich being in the box. We are
31:10
Speaker 3: in on Chrisolich being the clear cut winner of the
31:13
Speaker 3: Best Shape of his Life award. This dude coming off
31:17
Speaker 3: divorce has gotten jacked. He looks great. So I did
31:22
Speaker 3: have the thought like, if you're Chrisilage and you're trying
31:24
Speaker 3: to get in shape, what's what's your move? You probably
31:27
Speaker 3: just hire somebody to be like, hey, could you turn
31:30
Speaker 3: my eighth bedroom into a world class gym real quick?
31:33
Speaker 3: But I was like, is there a chance Chrysillich just
31:36
Speaker 3: like rolls into an LA Fitness or something, or like
31:39
Speaker 3: Gus Detroit Athletic Club. Maybe he is an option, But
31:41
Speaker 3: does he does he mingle with the people there? I
31:45
Speaker 3: don't know the answers to these things, but uh, he's
31:48
Speaker 3: our He's our clear crowd winner. There's just no doubt
31:50
Speaker 3: about it.
31:51
Speaker 1: Hey, look, man, I think if if if I was
31:56
Speaker 1: the owner of a professional team, there's a lot of
31:59
Speaker 1: motivation to stay in shape because it's like I'm around
32:01
Speaker 1: the people that are like the cream of the crop
32:04
Speaker 1: when it comes to uh, when it comes to physiques
32:07
Speaker 1: and all that stuff.
32:08
Speaker 2: I don't want to.
32:08
Speaker 1: I don't want to look out of place here. You
32:10
Speaker 1: know that that that's great motivation. That's great motivation. And
32:13
Speaker 1: you know, perhaps the divorce is also among among the
32:16
Speaker 1: top motivations there. I wonder if he also has a
32:18
Speaker 1: trans am All right, enough, midlife prices stuff.
32:20
Speaker 3: Keep going with these jokes, but we're not going to No.
32:23
Speaker 1: No, we we're gonna We're gonna stop right there. Uh,
32:27
Speaker 1: because I think we I think we exhausted it. But
32:29
Speaker 1: you know, I always support people for you know, taking
32:34
Speaker 1: care of their help. So kudos to Chris Zilch for
32:38
Speaker 1: for for being in tremendous shape. I don't I'm not
32:41
Speaker 1: all those people that hates guys that go people that
32:43
Speaker 1: go to the gym in January of every year.
32:45
Speaker 2: All right, that was fun. That was fun, Cody.
32:47
Speaker 1: Next time that we talk, there will be games to
32:51
Speaker 1: talk about that we can say, we're not gonna overreact
32:54
Speaker 1: and then kind of analyze, you know, every small little
32:57
Speaker 1: thing and look forward to doing that for the first
32:58
Speaker 1: time in twenty twenty five. Please follow us on x
33:01
Speaker 1: form known on Twitter at Cody Stapenhagen. I'm at Kean
33:03
Speaker 1: on a score Stectley pod page at Tiger Territory, Underscore, YouTube, Instagram,
33:08
Speaker 1: Subscribe to us as we continue to grow the show
33:11
Speaker 1: and we could not do it without you. So for
33:12
Speaker 1: Cody Stapenhagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great weekend.