Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / From Level 4 To Chartered Financial Planner - Is It Worth It? | Lewis Prosser

Transcript

From Level 4 To Chartered Financial Planner - Is It Worth It? | Lewis Prosser · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: And today on the Financial Planning Life podcast, I'm joined again by David Tate from Red Mill Advance, our superstar sponsor of training and development for the financial planning profession.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he's joined today by Lewis Prosser, who helps people go through their chartered qualifications in St.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: James's place.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we dive deep into what the chartered qualification is.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: We go beyond that and we look at MBAs, we look at fellows, we look at is chartered worth it?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: How does that help you build professional relationships and can it increase what you earn?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, David, welcome back to the Financial Plan Life Podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very well, thank you, Sam.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be back again.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: You keep coming to me with with guests.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who do we have today?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, I will let Lewis, it's Lewis Prosser, but I will let Lewis introduce himself.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm Lewis Prosser, uh, I work at St.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place as an exam and professional development consultant.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, been working with David for the last five years uh in relation to training support for the academy, but also uh progressing on to chartered.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've been with SJP for 17 years.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, been there.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't actually a career I was meant to do.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was always going to be a police officer.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: This was a stopgap, pretty long stopgap so far.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, really enjoy it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, good man.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you've seen the do the academy then go from strength to strength.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: So seeing that grow since sort of 2012.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've just hit gonna hit 2,000 um graduates in this sort of this year, so it's fantastic.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: But also, my main focus is helping people go from level four to level six.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've worked quite closely with professional bodies over the years with the CII, LIBF, and CISI about their propositions and how they can improve it to ultimately develop the next generation of advisors.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you've worked with David for quite some time.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you worked with David?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the relationship's been about five years, but me and you have worked quite closely the last three years.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's just gone from strength to strength, sort of from the level four proposition, now going up into level six.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we have some pretty honest conversation, but it's actually gets some great outcomes for our learners.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We do, yeah.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the last year, right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's been about three years, hasn't it?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously we've run the St.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place or supported rather the St.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place Academy for five years.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: This might be pushing into year six, I'm not 100% sure.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and seeing some great results actually, Sam.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm delighted to say it's a phenomenal academy.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think um across that level four piece, I don't want to get this wrong, but I think the most recent stats were 92% first-time pass rates.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: 92.5 is incredible.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: 92.5 will take that extra half percent uh first-time pass rate.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been an amazing um five years for us, but it's been an absolute pleasure working with Lewis over the last three years and building that close partnership.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think also just being able to see the fruits of your labour, the academy's been going for over 10 years, yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably longer, isn't it?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think the Academy starts around 2012, that was the initial one, uh, and it's been building from strength to strength.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we're sort of growing again, but as yeah, nearly 2,000 people graduating through it and contributing to the whole growth of the profession.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, listen, we've got a great partnership with the St.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place uh Academy, and um, we've taken uh people on to the podcast at various stages of their career, and you know, people who've started in any academy, they've gone on to be absolutely phenomenal in setting up these partner practices and building great businesses, and they're taking them from all different walks of life, you know, these second careerists that are coming in, and it's just brilliant to know that there are academies that can take people from start to finish to get them up and running.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the most important qualification, first of all, is level four, is the foundation of financial advice.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that so important and what is St.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: James's place doing in respect of that?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's key, really, because we're looking at the sort of the generation of next advisors.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, RDR come in, where it actually had a huge number of advisors, around 250,000, and went down to 30,000 in 2012.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: So growing that population is key, and that's been part of the SJP sort of philosophy is that increasing the number of advisors so clients get more access to advice.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but part of that journey is also upskilling those individuals, giving the opportunity to develop further for chartered.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the thing with the level four qualification, it's great for technical knowledge.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: But academies like SJP is actually developing those skills, actually, they're listening, those softer sort of skills that you don't get from a textbook, and that's the key element of what an academy does.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we've been fine-tuning that over the last sort of 10-15 years.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, your point in this at the moment is taking people from that academy level four qualification, they've been qualified, and then you're helping them get charters.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant, we're gonna learn a little bit more of that in a minute.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really interesting point, though.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I hadn't actually connected the dots there, Lewis.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: But the Academy 2012, of course, was um RDR and minimum level four QCA level four qualification um at that point.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: The Academy's born.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't actually connected those dots before.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was the launch time.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, level four qualification, obviously being your ticket to the game these days, Sam, to be able to deliver financial advice.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And getting those foundations right, why is that so important?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, the uh level four qualification is the the technical learning piece.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably important to say that the academy um goes far beyond that because we are responsible as a training provider for you know getting people um through those exams uh first time, ideally, 92.5% of the time.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not bad.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, getting them through uh those exams first time.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's really important because obviously it's giving you a technical level of knowledge um in terms of how to best advise your clients.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: But the academy actually moves through of um term two, term three, term four, and it actually embeds some of those softer skills, the behaviours, you know, the stuff that's really important to outside of the technical qualifications.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, certainly, when we talk about the foundations of financial planning, it is in part, big part, around those qualifications.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that is, as I say, that's your ticket to the game.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like getting your drive-in license.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've said this before, it doesn't make you a fantastic driver from day one.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you learn some of those skills through the other um parts of the um St.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place Academy, and um it's a fantastic academy.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: For those that don't know, you know, what is chartered?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, where you already talked about the level four being the minimum standard, um, chartered is getting someone to an advanced diploma, level six, so taking them to sort of degree standard.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's mainly going from like level four is about advice, is getting the technical knowledge about giving sort of service to individuals.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Charter level six is actually going above and beyond, it's looking at how you apply that knowledge in more technical, sort of um complex cases.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and if we look at the recent sort of simplified advice consultation paper, the FCA refer to level six is actually that what advisors should be striving for.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, level four is a benchmark, but actually level six is what people should be potentially considering, and actually it's looking at more complex cases.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I always see level four as advice, whereas level six goes into that planning.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and planning is going to be so important going to 2027 with the new changes around pensions and IHT.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's gonna be some great opportunities to be speaking to clients, but also utilizing their technical knowledge.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So your role at SJP, just give us a bit of an overview on that and then how you are actually involved in supporting those advisors get to level six.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um for me it's all things professional development, qualifications, but also compliance.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So for previously, I used to be working on actually creating advanced level units with the CII and actually creating more opportunities for individuals to complete charter qualifications.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, primarily my role is supporting individuals going from level four to level six.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so something that we've done here with in-house is actually create something called a charter mezzanine service.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So even advisors, they're busy, but they need advice so they can come and have a 30-minute conversation with me.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: We'll look at the different options of a charter to how they can develop themselves, the great train support in place, how to utilize it, and what their career and development path looks like.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me it's quite a positive role, and I I get to support people, achieve their goals, and go from level four to level six, if it's the right thing for them and getting the right balance, because again, it it's a great thing to do, developing yourself, but you've got to be making sure that you're getting that balance in life and also work.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: What changes between level four and level six?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's just go into that so people fully understand what actually changes, what are you what are you doing differently, what are you learning differently, what what makes it so different from level four, level six?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, from my perspective, level Lewis mentioned that level four is the technical learning for what will be the practical application in your level six exams.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um he also mentioned mentioned the level, you know, you you set a level four um framework, it's difficult, you know, you really have to apply yourself, but it's it's at QCA level four, whereas the level six journey, so through the advanced financial papers, the AFs is the as they're known, um, that journey really is undergraduate degree level.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: There is a significant step up.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what really changes is I guess if you think about um the level four qualifications, you could argue that it's a little bit of a kind of technical shootout when you're setting those qualifications.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is they're multiple choice.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um you've got you know four potential answers if a single response and one of them's correct.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's fairly common when you look at those exams that you might be able to discount one or with a bit of luck two, and you might be in a 50-50 shootout at the end.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, you're picking an answer to four potential, um, four potential answers.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: The the level six just isn't like that.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're having to absorb information and you're having to apply that.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a significant step up in terms of the qualification framework.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing for me is that um when you you know commit to becoming chartered, chartered is a designation, and part of it is the uh level six qualifications, but it's more than that, you need to evidence experience and how you're practically applying what you've learned.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the journey itself, you're committing to probably a two to three year journey to chartered.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and actually Lewis mentioned something in terms of what he was just talking uh about earlier, which he was saying um it's about finding balance.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, with the level six exams, when you're committing, or sorry, the journey to chartered rather, I should say, when you're committing that two to three year, which I think is fairly typical, isn't it, Lewis?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe two to four, depending, but two to three years, you actually have to appreciate, Sam, that it's going to be a really difficult journey.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the step up isn't just in terms of from level four to level six learning.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: The step up for me on that journey to charter is accepting that you're committing to a two to three year program that's going to involve you sacrificing things in your life, you know, because we're all busy human beings.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've got families and kids and you know, hobbies and interests and work.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you combine all of that, where do you fit in time over a two to three year period to think about that journey to chartered?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So what's inevitable is something has to suffer.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Might be time with your kids at the weekend, it might be, you know, your golfing buddies on a Saturday that you normally uh go out and play around with, but something's going to break.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um your question around, you know, what's the kind of step up, what's the difference between four and six, um, it is yes, that level of qualification, but the charter journey is a journey and it's you have to really commit to it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in practical terms, being chartered, how does that benefit the advisor?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Part of the journey is actually developing your knowledge.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So part of the level four is your learning the core tech knowledge and a bit of a myth buster as well when it comes to level six.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: The underpinning knowledge is the level four, and it's how you apply it, it's being able to take that technical information and apply it to a client.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when it comes to the level six, is actually being able to take a step back and look at the whole picture rather than an individual element.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: So people who are developing their knowledge, we actually see people who are chartered becoming more successful, and it's not sort of a the silver bullet, it's actually happens over time where they develop their knowledge looking at potential ways they can help their clients over the short term and longer term.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's also giving that confidence, that trust, it's that recognized standard across the UK that chartered is the highest level qualification, um, which then actually helps them speak with other professional connections, the likes of solicitors, accountants, um, to raise that bar and going beyond the benchmark.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can we go a little bit deeper into what actually is covered in Chartered?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if it's going to improve their technical knowledge, their um soft skills, their relationship building, what things though are they covering over that two to three year period?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, um I'll start maybe later.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'll give you some hacks as well in there, Sam, actually, in terms of anybody that's on that journey that might actually support them in terms of uh the journey.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from a qualifications perspective, um when you become diploma qualified, you have in CII terms, you have 100 credits.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: When you're aiming to charter, you need to get 290.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: 120 of those have to be at advanced level, and the rest across um other qualifications, so um within the CII framework.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um the typical route um is through your AFs.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So AF1, AF4, AF5, and AF8 are fairly typical.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's a couple of things here that I would mention as part of that journey.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um the first thing is that when you start on your journey to chartered, it might feel intuitive to look at it in that order, AF1, AF4, A5, AF8, but that's not necessarily the best way.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of hack number one I would give is that if you have committed and decided that you are going to progress to chartered and you're coming out the back of your diploma level qualifications, the last one you'll have done there is R06.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would actually suggest that you may want to start with AF5 and because they are there's a lot of similarity, you know, from the case study analysis to the fact-finder analysis.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do that, it's going to feel fresh.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little hack, as I say there, that you might want to consider going straight into AF5 as part of that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um then what I would say is um, in terms of the other AFs, when you're looking at those, so AF1, for example, which is um tax and trusts, you may want to at the same time pair it with JO2 trusts.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um JO2, because if you do that, um you're building more credits towards those 290.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing about, you know, again, that little hack number two there, which is pair it with other relevant level four qualifications, is you're already, you know, you're in that headspace, you're in tax and trusts, you're learning it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So why not pair it with that?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly, with the F4, um, which is investments, you may want to pair with J10.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: J10, yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool, got that right.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can even bolt on the likes of J12 as well to get a that's what I did, sadly.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: I did quite a few when it comes to investments to uh build up the credits.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's superb, but there you go, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there's uh so hack number two uh three and four, and which is don't just bolt J10 on to F4, bolt on J12 as well and get yourself some more credits.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about you know that journey, you say go a little bit deeper.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So typically to get those uh the additional credits, the 120 at advanced level is those AFs, as I say, but try and pair them with level relevant, level four um papers.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then the only other thing I would say around that is that depending on you know what your choices are, if you're a later life advisor, for example, um, you know, think about things like um equity release, ER1, um, think about long-term care, which is CF8.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and these other types of papers are CF6 mortgages because it's going to make sense to you.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, typically, Sam, it's the AFs to get you to chartered in between some level four papers, but you're looking at um the difference between 100 credits to 290 credits, and that takes you to chartered.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: But remember, that's just the qualifications, the chartered designation.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: You also have to evidence that practical application as well.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you do that?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, do you know it in fact, Luce?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to take that one?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's with the the CII, you've got to have five years of experience in the profession, and that can be across the board.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I always get this sort of misbith busting that you've got to have five years' advice.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been an advisor, but I'm charter myself.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's just being able to evidence that you've been in the profession, you've got that experience, and then also CPD, you've got to have three years worth of CPD recorded.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's just a real commitment to showing that you are going to develop yourself and ongoing.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's with the CII.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: With the other professional bodies, it's generally three years, uh, similar with the CPD evidence and having that experience.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's just to make sure that there is people in this profession joining it that have done the level four in three weeks.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Where in this crazy world it's fantastic that people can do these qualifications over a short space of time.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just having that qualification, it's evidencing your competency over a sustained period, also.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's it's a really great point.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really interesting point because we as a training provider have seen um some disappointed individuals that are um, you know, moving as fast as they can to set those advanced papers and then realizing at the end of it, because in their mind they're thinking qualifications, that actually they're going to have to wait two years or three years in terms of being able to um, you know, get that charter designation.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it comes down to ultimately your why when you're starting that journey, really, Sam, which is you know, you think about well, what's the reason for this?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is it because I'm an academic and I purely just want the qualifications?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay, because some people are, you know, that's how some people are wired and and they want that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or actually, is this about you know having that charter designation because it means something to me, it means something to my clients.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what's my why?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one thing that our trainers do when they are um training level six content, is they and particularly within um, you know, academy type settings or um route to chartered settings, clients, when we're training clients, um, people, is that they ask the question, which is, you know, you know, why?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you here?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And often if the answer can be one of two things, which is it might start with, well, it's because I want, or sometimes it's because my this is about my client.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for those that are thinking, well, actually obtaining this knowledge and is going to make me a better advisor ultimately for my clients, I think that that's a really nice why.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, sorry for interrupting this episode, but I just wanted to let you know that it's sponsored by Red Mill Advanced.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're the UK's leading provider of interactive e-learning courses, specifically for the financial advice sector.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Their best-in-class e-learning, CPD courses span technical knowledge, leadership and management skills, business skills and compliance knowledge, while their exam support courses help your people pass their CII, CISI, and LIBF exams first time.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's all delivered on a powerful learning platform that makes reporting CPD to the FCA seamless and gives leadership teams full knowledge and skills visibility across their entire organisation.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's why companies like St.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, Quilter, PLC, Hascott Lloyd, Foster Lenovo, and DeVere trust Redmill to keep their advisors and wider teams competent, compliant, and at the top of their game.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So to book a free demo, get yourself to redmilladvance.com and they'll do the rest.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go into the actual level six um advanced academy.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's call it that.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what it's called at St.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: James?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not called that?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's um sort of because we've got the the level four academy uh that we've been running.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so this is more of our sort of level six charter program because we cover it across the CII um supported by Red Mill, but also support individuals via the LIBF level six and also the CISI um level seven certified financial planner.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's just giving people the opportunity and and training support to achieve their goals, but also make that commitment.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh sort of David alluded to it.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Going from that level four is mandatory, um, where people have to work towards to get that minimum standard where level six is optional.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: People want to strive to progress and achieve that higher standard.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: But because it's that optional element, people have got to go into it, their eyes wide open, go commit to it, fully embrace it and respect it because some of those units actually require 150 hours worth of study.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's a pretty big commitment, and getting that balance um with work, home life, um, things can easily be pushed aside.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And generally, their own development is that thing.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's making sure that people set an achievable plan.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sort of I've seen people try and do it in 12 months uh and doubling up on exams, and it just generally ends up that they're overstretched, having to push back exams and then being disheartened and then sort of falling off the journey.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think part of it is being.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Realistic in people saying two to three years, absolutely starting off and building what's going to help them initially in their business, um, also playing to their strengths.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I was always investment, so I did so many investment exams, um, and it built on my confidence again.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Points on the board.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, used to love playing rugby, and my coach always said as a kicker, points on the board, get it on to keep the board taking over.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so doing something where some people go, actually, AF1 tax and trust, that's what I really want to do.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's not something that you are confident in or something you are generally sort of lending yourself to, build up to that because that exam with the CII AF1 Tax and Trust average success rate 45%.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: So go into it, look at the data, and make sure you're planning it as best you can because you don't want to set yourself up to fail.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and embracing training support because we utilize the best trainers uh across the board, um, which is brilliant.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: It complements the units, but it's still that individual's got to plan it out, they've got to put time aside because it's about applying the knowledge uh and doing that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and some of the units are coursework, which actually you do get to apply your knowledge in a slightly different way.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's a little bit of innovation in the profession as well, with the LIBF recently coming out over the last couple of years, having open book exams, which is incredible because actually that's more real life.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd like to see more uh innovation from the professional bodies because that's more of the skills, that's what you'd be doing in front of a client.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whereas the exams, the coursework, there's a little bit of application, a little bit of skills in how you research, but we're still not diving deep enough into the softer skills, the things that there's a complete all-round financial advisor.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is it worth it though?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you're level four qualified, you are qualified to give financial advice.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I wonder if people are going to sit there and think, is it actually worth me doing charters?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's your take on that?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so that's something a conversation I've been having with individuals for the last 10 years, because that's been my journey of helping people go from level six, level four to level six.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's dependent on the individual.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I I've sat across the room from individuals who are hugely successful, um, and becoming chartered, they're already very technical.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and would it be that beneficial?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Potentially not.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also people who are starting off or developing um that want to improve their knowledge.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, what we've seen over the many years is actually becoming chartered is actually increased business.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen that uh on average be around 50% in increase.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's I said it's not silver bullet of once you achieve charter, you're going to be more successful.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's that journey of developing your knowledge across the board, um, and having that high accolade uh that's recognised by professionals is huge.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what's a direct correlation to 50% more business from being charters?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's 50% um more productive than a than a level four individual.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's what our statistics have showed a lot of.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: What way do you think that is?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: I can probably add some colour to that from a market perspective, um, which might help around that, actually, Sam.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I looked at the 2025 um, it was the BWD kind of market survey, and what it showed was that chartered financial planners um earn uh 31% more income than level four advisors.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, to put that in real money terms, um it quoted it as uh around£30,000 per annum.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's actually one reason um that you know, if you're being if you're you know, if you're really black and white and you're being a little bit brutal and you say to yourself, well, is the journey to chartered um worth it?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's certainly a data point that would indicate, well, I don't know too many people that ought to earn an extra 30,000 pounds, Sam.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a great way to put it.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's it's it's it's one one metric.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Lewis is bang on, it's not a silver bullet.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, the data and that and that is fairly.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think it is though about being chartered that actually increases that level of earnings?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to be something about doing the chartered exam.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's sitting there and umming an Ring, 30 grand a year extra is uh is a is a big incentive on average.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: But but what specifically is it?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: If they if they enter into it, what is it that's going to get them earning that extra money?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a great it's a great question.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think there is probably a couple of things in there, um, and then I'm happy to pass over to you too, Lewis.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's probably a couple of things.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first thing is if you're chartered, it's going to help you um in terms of business developing into professional connections.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think about that, Sam, um you've got uh accountants, chartered accountants, it's just typical, fairly typical, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Chartered accountants, um great introducer source because accountants you tend to have clients there that are running their own business, potential introduction of high net worth clients.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and chartered accountancy practices, not exclusively, but you know, may have an interest in working with chartered financial planners at the very least, in terms of your own marketability to those professional connections, being able to say to them, you're chartered, I'm chartered, I've invested this level of time in qualification and practical application, I'm a safe bet for you to introduce your clients to.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing that, you know, the journey from a qualifications perspective is you are um you're taking a deeper dive into the technical learning you do at level four.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you're learning about complex things, you know, um complex planning, investments, IHT, etc.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you could argue that that could potentially open up a higher net worth client base to you as a charter planner.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, those are two things that, if that was the case, would directly correlate to potentially you having higher income levels, so that 30,000 pounds that we mentioned.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a number of other things as well, but um, I don't know if you want to add anything to that, Lewis.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, that was great.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just following on from that, like the the recent, well, recent survey from sort of 2022, they the CI did a survey in that um consumers and sort of professional connections were 75% more likely to choose a chartered firm.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, those individuals, the higher net worth individuals and businesses, actually recognize charter and that's what who they want to work with, and that can ultimately build up their business by dealing with those higher net worth individuals.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it is a great thing of actually developing yourself.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's no, I said, we've looked at causality internally of what where when was it that someone started to actually become more successful?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's really difficult to hit the nail on the head, but there's so many different layers of it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the things is actually being proud of being charted, having yeah, absolutely have that trusted marker, but also that ability in the world that we live in now, being able to market yourself is that it's really, really powerful on like sort of social media or on your website.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, if you can utilize it, do it.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and hopefully they can start building traction.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we've seen some really sort of popular individuals on sort of um LinkedIn, YouTube, and and building their brand and charters has helped amplify it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you do you teach advisors in the academy to be able to market their charter status to clients?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you sort of help them understand how to do it so they stand out with professional instructors and clients alike?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so part of what we do, there is sort of a when someone achieves market um sorry, when someone achieves chartered, there's a section uh on our internal site actually around how to market yourself and the individual sort of um content for CII, L IBF, and CISI, looking at emails that used to be sort of um even in the sort of um papers to do a press release.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but ultimately it's about how they can position it on on LinkedIn and getting that promotion.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we always just sort of say if you achieve charters, shout about it because people aren't going to know about it if you tell people.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's one of the big things is like when I've spoken to people of should I do chartered?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: None of my clients ever asked, Am I charter, what qualifications do I hold?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, if you are chartered, tell them, be really, really proud of it.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Show that you've got that sort of uh um chartered qualification, that sort of sign of excellence.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Does the chartered qualification change between CII, LIBF, and the CISI?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is one better than the other?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh happy to sort of answer that because I've been working with them for the last few years.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and no, there are three great opportunities for individuals.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and sort of five years ago, SJP was primarily only working sort of um on the CII level six diploma because it was the one that was sort of um had loads of training support in place.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we had a great framework, but actually, when we're looking at individuals, the LIBF and CISA offer something different.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we've got sort of good populations of both.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: The LIBF, again, similar to the CI, looks at specialist units or training in relation to investments, taxation, retirement planning, uh, even pension transfer.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it breaks down into those sort of specialist elements, where the CISI is technically the highest level qualification out there.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's level seven.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about level six, um, and that's a more of a being a broad, holistic financial planner.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to be a good all-rounder, um, and it's doing the basics exceptionally well.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's what part of my job is, and that sort of kept me going over the last few years, is actually having conversations with individuals of what's their learning style, what's their preference to identify, well, actually, the CISI might suit your sort of route.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, the younger generation, what I've actually found over the last few years are are leaning towards the CISI qualification because it's two units, it's quite coursework uh focused.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the last unit, the level seven financial plan, um, is between 15,000 to 25,000 words.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: So a big chunky piece of work.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, some people who have come from sort of um recently come out of college or sort of uni doing that type of work isn't overwhelming.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's something, well, I prefer to do that.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: I could do that over 12 to 16 months um rather than doing sort of two to three years and doing multiple exams by the CII and L IBF.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: But it's that personal element, that's that journey of what's right for the individual.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: If I if I was to start my let's say I did my level four qualifications with the CII, but I fell at the end of it, that was really hard, that was tough.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can I then just go and do the L IBF chartered or the CISI chartered?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Am I able to do that?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Can I can I mix and match?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: So the good thing about the the L IBF and CISI, if you have a level four diploma, you are eligible to start their level six.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's no additional requirements, you've just got to evidence your certificate that is RDR compliant, and you can start that sort of um ball rolling.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Similar with the CI, you can move across, but as David alluded to earlier, it's it's a credits game, so it might result in you doing quite a few extra exams.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: But ultimately, because the CIA have so many exams, you can sort of do a bolt-on uh approach.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: So doing the likes of AF4, J10, J12, you can build those credits by focusing on one sort of market area and maximizing that study.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yes, you can move across, which is great because again, people will go through a uh a journey, people come into the sort of SJP Academy, do the CIA, but also actually, my learning style, I want to do more coursework.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So ultimately they go to the L IBF or go to the CISI, or vice versa.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great that people have choice.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Previously, it was very much that the training support was geared to one professional body, and now there's a great choice to support everybody in whichever way they want to go.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there really is now, isn't there?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's why we're agnostic, really, across you know the professional body, and we'll work with all three um to support anybody that's moving through that journey.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing you can do, Lewis, that's you know, in terms of being able to um head in any direction once you've got your base level qualifications.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can even change.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you set out in your journey and uh decide that the CII is the right journey for you at level four and do R01, the LIBF will recognise that and you can transfer across to complete your level four.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it as Lewis said, it's about there's options out there and actually the professional bodies as a whole, um, I think have, you know, there's some strong propositions out there now.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: With the um you mentioned about you know the BWD research that was put into place, it was£30,000 a pound a year more than somebody that's level four.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Was that across self-employed and employed, or was it just employed you know?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know the answer to that, Sam.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if that research included both, so I'd have to revisit it.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would assume it does, but maybe that's a little bit dangerous.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, back in my recruitment days, I always knew I could all you did tend to find that somebody that was level six did command a higher level of salary.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it it was something that was that was happening.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people do tend to look quite fondly, and often they look at people with level six and think, oh god, we want them in the business because we want to be a chartered firm.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it becomes very desirable and with the less amount of people.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know much about the dis the difference between women and g and women and men when it comes to level six?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's quite a high proportion of women that are that are chartered, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, I don't have that data, unfortunately.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure I saw something like that where it's like it's a high percentage of women that are chartered.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and women tend to go towards chartered because they feel also they and this is what I'm being told by women, I'm not speaking on behalf of women, this is what I've been told by women, that they feel they have to do it to prove themselves.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: This interests them, isn't it?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: The recent stuff that I've got sort of internally, because um I'm looking at charter, then fellow, so that that post-charted or what people can do.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we actually found that on average, 50% of our charter population are actually fellow.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, if we look dive down a little bit deeper, 55% of our females who are chartered have gone on to fellow.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, there's a higher percentage of women continuing their development, um, which is which is brilliant because actually people who are driven, and I think part of this with chartered and going from level four to six is that drive to continue.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to want to do it ultimately.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we are seeing that sort of across the board.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, going from charter to fellow, that's another option that people can do um to keep their mind fresh and not stopping really, and hoping to look at new opportunities, new ways to increase their knowledge, um, which is incredible.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, life beyond chartered, then you you know you mentioned fellow.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's gonna be a lot of people that you know that's very aspirational to become a fellow.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about that.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is life after chartered?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's next?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, fellowship across the three professional bodies, um, they all look different.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, personally, um, I I've gone and done charter uh chartered and fellow.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think fellow um was easier to achieve than chartered, which I feel should be the other way around.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's a little bit of work to be done by the professional bodies of actually let's make it something that you demonstrate your sort of your skills, your knowledge, um, rather than sort of one of them is sort of around CPD, demonstrating you've done appropriate CPD, and the other one is around getting credits, additional exams, it can be at any level.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then the likes of the L IBF is actually demonstrating your knowledge that they I think they're they're the closest one to it of how you give back.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what fellow should be is actually what you're you're doing to develop yourself, what you're giving back to the profession.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'd love to see actually maybe a collaboration across the three would be incredible.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: If this is a standard for fellow, we've got a huge population.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: We want people to strive to charter, but let's make fellow something that people really want to get to.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, rather than just sort of stumbling over it, which at the moment people can do.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just doing additional multiple exam uh multiple choice exams or doing CPD.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me, I I did that, but one of the things that I did, I was very sort of privileged to be able to do was also go and do a master's.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: So about four years ago, we actually helped SJP, helped the University of Gloucester set up a master's programme.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's for individuals who are chartered, can do a one year master's course.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for me who's not academic, come out of school, it's sort of um 16, 18, knew that I was going to be a police officer, didn't do anything further.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to actually have the opportunity to do a master's and actually complete it um was an incredible achievement for me.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that was really good.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: That my uh master I did was a master's in finance.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you can choose whatever you did, but it was a one-year course because I was chartered, I I had two years worth of prior learning.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: So one year doing a 15,000-word dissertation, and some of the terminology was just absolutely mind-blowing to start with.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, I got more out of that, I think, and and retained a lot more knowledge um doing that qualification because it required so many different types of skills, um, and it's helped me shape what I want to do in the future as well, around helping people join the profession, because I think it's an incredible profession to join, but also about getting that new generation in because we are have an aging population, we need to get new individuals in.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: There was a decline around 75% of individuals who 18 to 25 leave the profession.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, why is that?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: What can we do to help people?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what my master's about was actually bridging the advice gap.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: How can we get more people to join the profession and what can we do to support them and retain them?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, that one that you've worked with the university to do, is that open to everybody then?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: So any sort of chart individual in the UK can do this one year's sort of master's course via the University of Gloucestershire.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's now got the MBA in financial planning, um, and it the enrolment period starts in May each year, so we just missed the cutoff this year.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but individuals who are looking to consider it, they're more than welcome to reach out to me because I said from it was a great achievement for self.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: I got so much out of it.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and actually by the end of it, I actually enjoyed it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it was something to go to a formal graduation with all the other university individuals was incredible.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that people who are looking to who are chartered, looking to develop themselves and want to explore something because with these MBAs and masters, you can do anything that's relates to financial services.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So is it something you're passionate about, or is it something you want to actually explore more?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: You can do your research and actually do your proposal and your dissertation around it.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not something that's already there.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: You could look at is there a potential problem?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find it more consultative then?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um having a tutor, because it was all remote as well, which was sort of great without having to go to university.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: The first, when you start it, you've got to do three years on uh sort of three years, three days on campus.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh, so learning the terminology, but you had a tutor um and actually working um other individuals just to bounce off ahead, like a little bit of a peer group, WhatsApp group, but you go so much deeper into something, really trying to understand the problem, um, but also trying not to problem solve.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm a natural problem solver, so I had to take that hat off in the I see something, this is a solution, and it's not building that until the end.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, actually looking at the data, um, because you can do it different ways.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I love data, looking at getting a spreadsheet, uh, where other people like to do interviews, who can do it whichever way suits you.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, actually, for you, you'd probably be great at interviewing individuals, going off and doing that, uh, to build your your research and uh that consulting consulting element.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's it's fantastic, it really is a great achievement.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, when you do an NBA, you may have said this already, but um sorry if my question you've already answered.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: But do you do you can do you have to be chartered then before you do an MBA?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um for this one, yes, because it's a a one-year um course, they give you that it's generally a master's is a three-year course.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: So by this having chartered, you get those two years essentially of prior learning, and you do this one at one year.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's actually one of the cheapest masters in the UK because you're only doing the the final year.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as I said, it's it's all remote pretty much, so you've got that opportunity to do it from home and speak to your tutor on a monthly basis.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's fantastic.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to ask what's next after this, then the MBA.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we do have a couple of people who are actually doing a doctorate.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: So with the University of Glost, you can carry on, and there are other universities, so it's incredible.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: We look at where we were in 2012, going from certificate to level four, and it's an industry, we're changing doing these sort of professional qualifications and these academic qualifications, we really are turning it into a profession, um, which I think is absolutely incredible.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and one thing that I'm sort of keen on is that getting people to have the option rather than having to go to university and they can do university degrees, is also doing apprenticeships.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: But someone starting today doing an apprenticeship could do a level four apprenticeship, go to charter and do a master's over a six year period while learning on the job.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's incredible.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's great that as a profession, we want people to develop, we're giving the opportunities to do it, and being able to go and do a PhD, which is generally a four to five year sort of course afterwards, is brilliant.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: But again, you can have different opportunities.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: That suits you.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, that's not on the cards for me at the moment.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: I've just uh did my master's, and it's a pretty incredible sort of journey.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's about how I can use that because um uh a person I used to work with was he did a master's many, many years ago, uh, and he always used to say, Well, I did a master's, but it's on the shelf.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: What am I gonna do with it?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's figuring out what I can do on my masters, how I can help the profession, um, SJP, but also sort of professional bodies, and how we can help to that next generation of users.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I think Dr.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Prosser has a good rank together.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I'm all of a sudden feeling vastly underqualified, Sam.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: So well, um Daniel said as well, didn't he?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Dan's Dan's appetiting that as well, isn't he?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's doing it well, he's going to do his PhD.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: There was um an interview we did, he's one of our trainers, but he's around it's around neurodiversity, he does a lot of our neurodiversity training, but he fancies being called a doctor as well.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I could definitely see Dr.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Crosser, definitely.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned that you weren't naturally academic, but like the evidence suggests that you are, or is it well you how how you know what how does that happen?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm not naturally academic, and I look at that and I think, you know, I would love to have a if I'm honest, it'd be kind of cool to have Chartered Fellow after my name or whatever.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do you yeah, how do you embark on that academic journey when you didn't have confidence in yourself that you were naturally academic?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because lots of people are gonna listen to this now and think exactly that.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely, and that's it, confidence.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it I was never academic at at school.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I achieved GCSEs and actually it was not something I wanted to progress and do.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and going through the level four when I in the role I was in SJP, I had to do a level four, and it took me completely out of my sort of comfort zone.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I had to have people around me to support me, but it was a training support, realistically, and understanding how I learn.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because for me, having a study text, I switch off after a couple of pages, so it's actually having that audio and video learning to really just sync everything in, and part of it is about momentum because quite a lot of the exams all blend into each other.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, where some people say I'm gonna do a five, six-year journey to charter, it's just like that that does work, but you have knowledge fade in between.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I was on a on a plan, I had some great mentors ultimately to support me, but it was a realistic plan over a two-year-free, two to three year period, and they always just overlapped and it worked really, really well.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, it was challenging for me.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: I had to make sacrifices, I was sort of a very keen rugby player, so but I knew that for me to be successful, I had to put the work in.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was very fortunate to work within SJP and have access to some incredible training support, um, and it really made the difference of sort of going from sort of a narrow fail to a sort of a pass.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was having that commitment, and as each exam went, my confidence grew.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's a key part because it is challenging.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: It we I can't say that they're easy exams, you've got to put the work in, you've got to respect them.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that is it.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think once you've got that momentum, don't let it slip.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be my key part.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love what you're saying then as well.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Respect the exams, respect the journey.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a really great way to put it because you do have to respect that journey to charter it, absolutely.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one thing that we do as a learning and development provider, Sam, is we try and um you know map out that journey.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in our world, that's level four or or level six in terms of that, those qualifications.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we map it out.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: We say, look, here is the plan over this period, this is the um the way that you should, or that we will take you through these qualifications in this order.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're going to have your tutors at these points every week or two weeks or whatever it may be.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to have this time in your in the classroom.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the journey is mapped out to a certain extent, and that support is always there.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then something else you said, Lewis, which again just reinforces, I think, that people learn in a variety of ways.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: But having access to more than just reading material, a big chunky book, it just doesn't suit everybody.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: People just don't learn like that.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, when you have videos, when you have e-learning to interact with, when you have continual reinforcement through testing, and yes, you have that reading material, that variety of learning um, I think really helps with that journey.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I love what you said.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's about respecting the journey, about respecting the qualification, because you spoke about um, you know, big rugby having to give up your time.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: We said it at the start of this podcast, Sam, that um ultimately, you know, you are committing to uh a journey for you that uh the master's was a year, the route to charter does two to three years.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to accept that if you respect the journey, you're gonna have to give up stuff in your life to get there.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really important.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, from a training and development perspective, that was beautiful to hear because actually everything you're talking about is what we do, right?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's um variety of learning videos, uh, testing, reading, e-learning, um, you know, structured over a specific period, taking you through that journey.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was wonderful to hear, Luz.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: How important is the relationship with Red Mill and David Tape?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's huge.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the Academy Uncharted is part of our sort of backbone, the SJP, because we want to develop people.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we've got to be able to evolve that proposition.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: We've worked with some great training providers over the years, um, and the relationship with Redmo over the last five years has been incredible.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think the key differential that we've seen is actually that blended learning approach that sort of Dave alluded to, having access to training, actual physical days, sort of virtual training, webinars, sort of streamlined content, practice exams is really, really important.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, having that trusted sort of partnership with Red Mills is brilliant.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's just about actually having that business that can scale up with us because we have quite a lot, a large number of individuals working towards chartered, um, on average between 250 and 300 people a year.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's being able to work with someone that knows us as a business and we have that relationship to support, and ultimately we have that same objective of helping people.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we can provide him incredible training support, but part of it is as well is educating individuals that they've got to put that commitment in.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not just turn up to these workshops, read this, and you'll be done.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually educating individuals that this is great, this is the backbone of what you do.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: But the good thing about Red Mill is well, they know our individuals, they also say you've got to be doing a little bit more.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: They have that sort of that confidence and they're that trusted provider.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so they're so well respected with an SJP um because of what they've done within the academy.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: So having them doing our level six for the CIO is just a natural fit.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think one of the key things that sort of um is really helped and sort of built even more confidence in the world that we're in.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: So this AI world a couple of years ago, um, David actually came down and did sort of a presentation for us around what they were doing.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's the first time I actually saw some AI training videos uh utilizing uh program called Symphysia.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: That is incredible, uh, and actually made so much sense.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it also was sort of that moment where you see that's future-proofing their business, that they can create some content, update it, um, and they're constantly evolving.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, having a partnership where they're trying to evolve, uh developing their proposition continuously is brilliant because it also keeps me on my toes of making sure that what we're doing um internally will match them.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, but also the relationship from a personal point of view, like me and David, sort of speak very frequently.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: We have that same goal of actually support people the best we can.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: How can we do it?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is key to it rather than it just being sort of a supplier.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think collaboration is is is massive, feedback is massive.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I really do hear is that Red Mill do get stuck in, they get involved, they provide feedback, there is data on their platforms that you can lean into as well.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I I do pick up on is that there's a journey that somebody goes on through their learning and through their career.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if they can continue that journey with the same people, isn't that going to feel more familiar?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't that worry, well, who's now gonna train me?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I passed with those guys, and then and I love their system, I love how they do it, I love how they you know they they deliver this training.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: The very fact that you can take somebody from you know no qualifications through the level four up to level six, yeah, and they want to go on to the MBA, etc.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hell of a platform, and I think it's a hell of a relationship, and I think that's not to be overlooked as well, because people like familiarity.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can I just comment on that as well, just for a moment, because it's important for me and that a partnership is built um through trust over years, and actually the way that for me um that works is um when two parties are being really honest and speaking to each other, and that's the one thing that SJP um does extremely well.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have regular Lewis and I do talk a lot, you know, we'll talk often about how we're gonna um get the best out of our, you know, the way that we structure things and best for the delegates, but we have um real structured meetings, so we do them on a you know a regular basis where we get multiple stakeholders and we all talk about not just what's going well, so we don't go into those meetings and go, hey, you know, 92% pass rates.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: We sit down and we say, what's not going so well?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what is absolutely incredible for me and the foundations of our real partnership that listen to each other, um the when SJP are talking about, well, look, this isn't going very well, they actually look internally as well.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just a finger pointing, it's not going well.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're the training provider, so you're responsible.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: What are you going to do to fix that?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, actually, let's look at that together and understand if there's anything we can do as a business that's going to help and support make this particular part stronger or better.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it the partnership in that regard is phenomenal.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: I turn up to every meeting knowing that I'm going to get honest feedback, but we're going to work together to try and fix whatever, if there are problems there, we're going to work to fix them together.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then interestingly, you spoke about um, I remember that actually, the when we presented the kind of AI tutor piece and evolving.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's something that that is really important to us.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, and then the relationship with SJP that we are constantly evolving, Sam.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we haven't really touched much on AI.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the reality that, you know, the adoption curve in terms of um AI over the last 12 months has been exponential.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at any of the data, you know, three, four years ago, people were um, you know, playing with AI in business.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now everybody is using AI in business, and there is a much bigger awareness.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, it has evolved significantly in terms of what these models can do.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, as a learning provider, we are acutely aware of that.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um what are you doing to future proof your business around AI?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned synesthesia, and and I understand that.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: For those that don't understand it, what is that and what are you doing really in the training and development of future-proof it and also build those deeper up deeper support relationships with the likes of St.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: James's place that are always looking for new innovative ways to train, right?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: That that is a great and unexpected question.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um you started AI.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm happy I'm happy to share some of it without giving away too much, actually, because um there is quite a lot going on in the background.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so around Synthesia, synthesia is an AI program that allows you, it's basically avatars, AI avatars, and it allows you to be react very quickly to market change.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you can input the knowledge of 20 years worth of chartered fellow inside an AI model, and that AI will basically train that.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've you've given it that information.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it allows you, as I say, to react very quickly.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: If something changes in the market, um, syllabus updates, budget change, whatever it may be, rather than having to get a tutor back in in front of the camera, edit, you know, and all that kind of stuff.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: We update a program and and we render it and we get it in you know 10 minutes.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we adopted that.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would say we were probably ahead of the market curve on that.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we adopted that um it was around three or four years ago, maybe something like that.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that you can do with synthesia that we've done is we have um we have digitized our trainers.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we uh you know a lot of our training, particularly around the exam academy stuff, is actually our chartered fellows.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that helps with continuity.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're a delegate and you are seeing uh um an AI training you, um and that same AI, so one of our trainers, John, we call him Digital John, digital John transitioned to real John at the end of the week.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite a seamless transition.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, you're Digijon.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are you Digi Don?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are you real John?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's real John.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we've done that, and again, that just helps around making it feel very familiar.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's a great question, as I say, a little unexpected in terms of what we're doing to Future Proof.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so without saying too much on this, I mean, look, we're undertaking, we have a project team internally at the moment.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um now that project team includes a CTO, um a product individual.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's headed up by one of our one of our directors.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's a again a team around them.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we are currently and actually have an MVP, but it won't be ready to come to market for probably nine to twelve months, I think.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we really want to test it.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um that is heavily um investing in AI technology.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, there's a lot of IP that we're building here, so I don't want to say too much.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is it is going to ensure that from a training needs analysis perspective, from a real-world feedback, not necessarily an AI that's just an AI avatar that's just spitting out um uh content that's been fed into it, but is maybe working from a large language model um and actually tutoring in real time individuals that are interacting.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we are um there's a lot going on in the background and we are looking at probably one of the biggest technology shake-ups in our business that we've looked at since we've launched, but there's a lot of sensitivity around it, Sam.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and obviously you don't even know that, Louis.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um but that's exciting to know.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the provider the provider you're actually working with is actually investing and feature-proof in the business, and obviously you're gonna you're only only ever gonna benefit from that, is the way I look at that sort of thing.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank you so much for coming in.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for bringing another guest along.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he keeps bringing these people in who just singing his praises about what a fantastic training company they are.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's no wonder we got on as a sponsor.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, next time we see you, it's hopefully gonna be a doctor.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, need to see one instead.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations for your success in your career.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming on the financial plan of life and David.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks as always, Jason.