Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 408: The Patronized Self-Distribution (PSD) Model with Zach Lona and Anthony Gibson

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BPS 408: The Patronized Self-Distribution (PSD) Model with Zach Lona and Anthony Gibson · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifagpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four zero eight.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: First Think, Second Dream, Third, Believe, and finally dare.
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  Speaker 1: when we really should be working on that next draft.
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  Speaker 1: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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  Speaker 1: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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  Speaker 1: screenplay bulletproof.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now.
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  Speaker 2: Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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  Speaker 2: on the kind of project you are in the goal
• 1:00
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  Speaker 2: by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Well, guys,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: today we are going to be tackling NFTs. Now. We
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: have been talking about NFTs on the show recently, and
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: we've been talking about blockchain and all the new technologies
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: that are going to be hopefully helping independent filmmakers generate
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: revenue for their film. But I was reached out to
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: by a couple of filmmakers, Anthony Gibson and Zach Loona
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: and their new distribution model using NFTs called Patron Self
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Distribution or the PSD model, and it was really interesting
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  Speaker 2: and I wanted to have them on the show so
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: we could dig into how they're doing it, how they've
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: generated money with it already, and how they're continuing to
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  Speaker 2: not only generate money with it for this film, but
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: they're already planning for their next one as well. So,
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  Speaker 2: without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Anthony
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and Zach. I like to welcome to the show, Anthony
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Gibson and Zach Lona. How you guys doing do.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: An excellent Thanks for having us, Alex oh.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Man, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: You guys reached out to me, and I get reached
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: out to on a daily basis to be on the show,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and I get pitches constantly. But when I saw what
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: you guys were doing, I was like, this is interesting.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: And of course you hit a very sweet spot right now,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: which is blockchain NFT's new alternative distribution models using technology
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: to empower the filmmaker, because there's been a slight history
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: of filmmakers being taken advantage of by distribution. I'm not
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: saying many, but to say the just a couple. I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: mean it's it's not the norm or anything, but but yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I want to bring you guys on a show to
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: talk about your amazing new way of distributing through the
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: blockchain through NFTs. But before we even get to that,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: how did both of them get into the business.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: So we actually met each other in Chicago. We were
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: both based in Chicago at the time, and Anthony since
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: moved to La. So we met through our cinematographer Zach
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Green on a feature length project which was my directorial debut,
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: is called He Who Lives in Hidden Lakes, which is
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: the subject of this project here and then Anthony and
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: I have since worked on that very closely with his
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: production skills.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Cool. And that's how you guys got together and what
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: made you get into the business, Anthony.
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean made me get into it. I
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: just love movies.
• 4:06
  Speaker 6: My grandpa used to chase me around his house wearing
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: wolf mask and.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: Brought me into the world via horror movies.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Grandpa, that's an amazing pot.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, he was big in horror, big in westerns. It's
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: one of my first memories. We're like in his kitchen
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: and he's chasing you around in that mask, and it's
• 4:23
  Speaker 6: interesting to have a first memory of feeling like you're
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: about to be eaten by a monster. And I feel
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: like that's informed the rest of my life, basically maybe
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: into his Zax movie here.
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  Speaker 2: So I think this is uh, this is where the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: therapy begins, Anthony. So, so you guys came up with
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: this new idea called the patronized self distribution model using
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: NFTs essentially, can you explain to the audience. And we've
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: had other episodes about this, but I just want to
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: kind of carry the baseline. What is an NFT in
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  Speaker 2: the simplest, simplest terminology.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is always a tough one, right because it's
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: so new, and it's like I'll give Anthony, I'll give
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: my definition, and then I've thought a lot about about
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: how to position this and essentially how I think of
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: it is, it's a immutable function on a blockchain that
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: represents a asset like a work of art, a film,
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: a house alone, something like this where it's universally verifiable.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: So anyone, no matter who you are, where you are,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: you can come into the blockchain code and you can
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: verify that this token, this NFT represents this whatever it is.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: So basically that's more confusing than it was before. So
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: now I'm actually more confused about what an NFT is
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and I know what an NF is. No, I'm joking,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: so you you don't quit your day job. No, Basically,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: to my understanding, you guys can explain to this. An
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: NFT essentially is a digital baseball card, a digital comic book,
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  Speaker 2: a digital painting. As a one off or multiple versions
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: or a limited edition print of something. So there's a
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: fifty fifty limited to fifty of this, or only one
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: of this, and it's just a digital version of Spider
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Man number one, but there's only maybe one of them,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: or they could be one hundred of them, or could
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: be a thousand of them, depending on how many you
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: release out there. Is that a fair explanations?
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I think, like for me, the term
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  Speaker 6: in my mind is like digital physical or physical digital.
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  Speaker 6: It's like a thing that exists like as itself that
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  Speaker 6: you can sell as a singular item the same way
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: that you would have any other merchandise.
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  Speaker 5: You can do that now with an NFT. It's a
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  Speaker 5: way to buy and sell means basically.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a way to facilitate digital ownership of something.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And then when you were saying blockchain, I mean, I
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: know what blockchain is, so you know the basics of blockchain.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: If you want to know about the basis of blockchain
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: and what NFTs are based on, I have multiple episodes
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and I'll link that in the show notes on blockchain
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  Speaker 2: explain nations of it and what it all means in
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: our world. Because that's a long conversation, and I think
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: we have already had that conversation, so I just really
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: want to focus on what you guys are doing, but
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: I'll put that in the show notes, guys. So tell
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: me then, what is a patronized self distribution model or
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: a PSD model?
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so patronized self distribution is a way to not
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: necessarily actually release your film, but it's a way to
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  Speaker 4: verifiably own the film as a.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Work of art.
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  Speaker 4: So a lot of projects that have been experimenting with
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: n fts in the film space have been sort of
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: in an addition or in a like you could, like
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: you were saying earlier, you could buy multiple versions of
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: it like you have like a limited DVD release.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Or something like this.
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  Speaker 4: What patronized self distribution does is that it it mints
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: a scarce token of your film. So you're not thinking
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  Speaker 4: of your film as a fungible asset anymore where everyone
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: can go to Netflix or Amazon Prime and see it.
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  Speaker 4: Now you're thinking of it as almost like a piece
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  Speaker 4: of fine art, like a unique one of one painting.
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  Speaker 4: So then that is then mapped to the token, and
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  Speaker 4: then on top of that, you can sell that token
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  Speaker 4: as a sort of non fungible piece of art, and
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  Speaker 4: then the economic aspect of it that we've designed that
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  Speaker 4: comes into it grants the owner of that n FT,
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  Speaker 4: which is representing your film in all of its singular
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  Speaker 4: artistic glory and all the blood and sweat tears you
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: put into it.
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  Speaker 3: It also gives utility to the owner.
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  Speaker 4: So usually that's going to be mean like an economic
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: benefit like a perk. You can also have like crowdfunding
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  Speaker 4: type benefits with it with you know, maybe you can
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: have dinner with the director and producer. But really what's
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: what's what's going to make it the most powerful, both
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  Speaker 4: for both you as a filmmaker and your patron, is
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  Speaker 4: the sort of economic benefit to owning this token.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So when you're saying so basically, someone let's say
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  Speaker 2: I buy your movie for five grand your NFT. According
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  Speaker 2: to what I read in your on your on your website,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you whoever buys that token would also get fifty percent
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: of all streaming revenue from here on to eternity, essentially
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: im perpetunity. Oh yeah, okay, so then they would come
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: in so now I own it. I bought it for
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: five thousand dollars, and now after I've purchased it it
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: releases the film because the film would had not been
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: released at that point yet, right.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, So there are many ways.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Really the sky is the limit with what you can
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  Speaker 4: do with NFTs, which is really like the power of
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  Speaker 4: it is like this is completely untapped potential and there's
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: use cases for this stuff that no one has even
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: thought of yet.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: So this is a new one that we thought we
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: would experiment with where we're saying, okay, we're going to
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: mint our feature film as a one of one token,
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: which hasn't been done before to our knowledge, and then
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: we're also going to give an economic benefit to owning
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: the token, and that just exists in perpetuity. So the
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: potential that that unlocks is you can trade the token.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: Again.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: It's again we're thinking of the film as like a
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: painting or a piece of fine art. Now where you
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: can now there's now a secondary market for that for
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: that film, and along with the economic benefit that which
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: transfers on the resale of the token, the new owner
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: of the film token will then receive that fifty percent cut.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: So we can get into a little bit more, but
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: it's powerful.
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it's really like an exploration of incentive
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: and figuring out like what we can do within this
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: new technology to explore new models for small business. I mean,
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: I think of myself as like a small business filmmaker,
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: and this is like, like this new modality is allowing
• 11:18
  Speaker 6: people to enter a space and be new and to
• 11:21
  Speaker 6: define it and to set up new norms, which is
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: really exciting. And so I think like in this case,
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: it's like, well, we had this feature film that we
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: had produced and we wanted to see what we.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: Could do to distribute it ourselves.
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: And that was like along came this conversation about NFTs,
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: and we just kind of racked our brains around like, well,
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: what does the incentive look like and what could scenario
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: be that would put something in the hands of the
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: person who bought it, but also give us an opportunity
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: to have an entirely new platform. And that's it's awesome
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: about these aggregators. It's like you can self distribute your movie,
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: you know. And the terms that just happened to be
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: attached to our NFT was we're not going to touch
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: the aggregator until it's purchased and that was the term.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Right, And and the thing is too that well, I'm
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: assuming that the budget of the film was at a
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: point where a five thousand dollars nf T made cents,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: because if you spent a quarter of a million, half
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: a million dollars on a movie, that doesn't make financial
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: sense to give half of your streaming revenue away. So
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: it's kind of like, you know, it depends. But let's say,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: for example, that I have a movie that has a
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: star in it, even a not a not Brad Pitter,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you know, or Leonardo DiCaprio, but just a basic you know,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: a star power that has a fan base. Uh, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: then we put it up for auction as opposed to
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: locking it in. Did you you guys locked it in
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: a five thousand right?
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah. We put it to auction.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: So we actually got a couple of bids in and
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: our starting auction was one ether, which I think at
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: the time was Yeah. So we we got a couple
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: of bids in there and it went up to two
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: point two five ether, which was the strike price.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: So that was really cool to see the bids come
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: in for this thing.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: That means that there's definitely like an inkling of a
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: market forming around this stuff.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so all right, So then so if we
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: put the bid out and let's say that bid gets
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: up to seventy five hundred thousand dollars, that's a very
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: feasible thing, especially if you're guaranteed fifty percent of streaming
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: revenue coming in, and that's a massive It could be
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: massive depending on the kind of revenue you're creating. Where
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you're being put on. Is that you know, transactional? Is
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: that AVOD? Is that SVOD? Is that p VOD? What
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: what you know? You can define all that in your
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: NFT is that is that?
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Right? Yeah, that's correct, so with ours And I'm sure
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: everyone is listening to thinking like what are these guys
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: doing giving a fifty percent, Like we haven't gotten into
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: like why we think that's a good deal, right, But yes,
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: you can define any of that within the economics if
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: you're token. It just so happens that we're including like
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: you know, AVOD, t VOD, every anywhere. It's the owner
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: of the ift gets a fifty percent cut of our production.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: Companies grow so not like the entire growth, so just
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: what we take home.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So the so then the question is why the hell
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: did you do this and how does this make make
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: any sort of financial sense whatsoever.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's it's an expense, like Anthony said, you know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: it's an experiment in incentives and maybe do you want
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: to take this one?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: But I'm assuming it's an experience because I experimented to
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: my first film was five grand, at the second film
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: was three grand. I experimented because my budgets were extremely low.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't experiment with fifty or one hundred grand because
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not rolling that deep just yet. So I'm assuming
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: that the budget justifies this kind of of risk or
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: this kind of experiment. Does that make sense totally?
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: I mean, and Zach can probably share more about where
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: like the budget's coming from and all that stuff. But
• 14:50
  Speaker 6: for us, yeah, we were very much in a place where,
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: you know, like a one ether deal at a certain point,
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: for the one to one NFT was more interesting to
• 15:00
  Speaker 6: us than maybe recouping any money like all of the
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: funding back within the actual purchase of the NFT, but
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: also to give away fifty percent of the streaming rights.
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: I think for us, what's most interesting about it is
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: the experimentation and saying, look like we're trying something new.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: We happen to have something.
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: That we're willing to take a risk with, and it's like, hey,
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: like if this means that more people would watch it,
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: Like the idea of like giving up more money was
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: okay because it's actually just about the piece of work
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: itself and also what this could mean for the future,
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: because everything, every project you get at alex is like
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: a case study in like business and economics and all
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: these kinds of things, and it's every project is going
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: to have a new audience. And it's like someone who's
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: buying soap and someone who's buying toothpaste, but they buy
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: different kinds of things. You have to find another way
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: to sell to that person. And it's like, well, the
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: only way we're going to get to that knowledge is
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: if we take the thing that we already have and
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: put forth and say we're putting all we're going all
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: in on our chips here because.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: Something on the other side of this is going to
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: tell us what to do next.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and to be specific about you know why we're
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: actually saying this is the utility that we're gonna grant
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: with this NFT is the trying to capitalize on the
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: incentive of either someone buying it out of the gate
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: or on the secondary market of someone who it's It's
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: almost like a like a high renaissance artist patron relationship
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: where the kind of person who has the money to
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: allocate to this kind of you know, merchandise or artwork,
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: they might have an influence in the greater world where
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: we call it in the crypto space, pumping their bags,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: you know. So you're like, Okay, I just bought this NFT.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: I want to show it to everyone. So the more
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: the meme gets out there that this is a movie
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: and you should watch it, the more valuable that the
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: original NFT becomes. So the idea is the person who
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: buys this either one has an incentive to sell it
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: to someone with a large audience essentially or some influence,
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: or the person who acquires it outright can acquire it
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: for a cheaper price, like say five thousand dollars, which
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: if we're talking about artwork, isn't really that much.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: But then they can say, Okay, I have.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: An audience of you know, maybe a million people, and
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: maybe I'm like a.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: Big YouTube streamer. I could drop five thousand dollars on
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: this film.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: You know shaw it to my audience, and then within
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: a couple of months, I've made my initial investment back.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: And also now that all of my audience has seen
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: this film.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: More people love it. More people love it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: The more cultural gravitas that the film has, the more
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: cultural gravitas that the film has, the more value that
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: the original film AFT you can capture on the secondary market.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: So it's almost like an incentive engine to keep things
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: going and pump the bag.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Essentially.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: That's it's I know a lot of people listening to this,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: so like, what are these two guys, What are these
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: three guys talking about? These guys are insane. But look
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: we're and I told you guys this before we started.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I've said this a million times on the show before.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Is that we're in the Internet nineteen ninety six. We're
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: still trying to figure out what HTML is. We're still
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out what JPEG is. We're still trying
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: to get faster than dial up modems to log onto
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the Internet without stealing an AOL disc from a magazine
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: in a Barnes and Noble. That's how old I am.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: So you know, that's where we are with NFTs, with blockchain,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: with all this, we're at a very very basic beginning level.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: And it's been around for I don't know, since two
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: thousand and eight, when bitcoin showed up and the concept
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: of blockchain showed up, we were around. It's been around
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: that long, and it's taken that long to get to
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: where we are now, and people are starting to figure
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: things out. And again, I've talked about NFTs at nauseum
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: some of these episodes, so you can go deeper into that,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: but I'm curious, Okay, So obviously the budget made sense,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: The benefits make sense for the investor who buys this. Now,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: something that people might not understand is that if I
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: buy your NFT, I resell it for twenty grand, you
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: get ten percent of that for perpetuity. If that sells
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: for twenty grand and then a year or two later
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: it sells for forty grand, you just made another four
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: thousand bucks. And it keeps going and going and going
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: and going, and hopefully your next movie is you know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Taxi Driver, you know, circa twenty twenty one, and then
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: you blow up as a filmmaker. Well, the value of
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that NFT astronomically goes up. And I think you use
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: the example of George Lucas. If George Lucas had a
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: theorem and NFT, what would the Star Wars NFTV? And
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I've said, what is this? What would Taxi Driver be?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: What would be Ambulance? You know Spielberg's first short film
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: as an NFT What would that be worth today if
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: it would have been treated as such and the technology
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: existed when that came out? So is that right? We'll
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: be right back after a word from our sponsor and
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: now back to the show.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, we're so.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: I come from more of a fine art background myself.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: I didn't start in film. I just sort of arrived
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: at film as a consequence of feeling like that that
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: was the best medium for my creative.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Ideas to live.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: So I'm coming at it from I'm trying to kind
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: of combine these two worlds where now we have an opportunity,
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: because of this NFT technology to assign cultural value that
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: translates to economic value, to like these priceless film cultural artifacts.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, film is such a big part of you know,
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: our culture, and you know, you can argue that it's
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: sort of got a lot of competition these days, which
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: it does, but that's an opportunity for independent filmmaking at
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: this level to sort of ascend socially and in terms
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: of its social status. So I see feature films going
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: more the way of like the opera or or the theater,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: where it's kind of more of a niche interest, but
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: it's got a very high it's got a higher class
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: social implication to it. Which if we're then if then
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: we're assigning fine art value to the films, and that
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: can be traded.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the the the value of these.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Tokens could you know, seriously be worth a lot in
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: the future. And also because of the technology, we get
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: a creator royalty on each of those secondary transactions. So
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: if you know, one day this sells for a million
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: dollars on the secondary market, we just pocket one hundred
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars, you you know, just automatically.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. And I mean imagine Wizard of Oz or
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Citizen Kane or you know, if you want to talk
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: about fine art, I mean that's the equivalent you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: or you know, of the earlier Chaplain's first Films or
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: something like that, as NFTs treating film as fine art,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: which no one's really ever had that opportunity to because
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: film is a film has always been something that you
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: needed to sell a lot of tickets in order to
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: make it financially viable, and that's the entire business model.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: This allows that to continue. But this is just another
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: revenue stream for Like I was telling people, I'm like,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: wait till Marvel or Disney jumps in on this, Like
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: what what is what is the Avengers? What is was
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the Avenger's NFT worth?
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting, Like the idea
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: of like the concept of reproducibility is dramatically changing right now,
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: Like there's a seismic shift that is happening and understanding
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: what like memes even are and like essentially what we're
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: talking about is like a meme engine, like a cultural
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: like cultural currency being added to financial value of like
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: singular Internet objects. And it's like the film has a
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: one to one identity. Now the film is Films have
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: always up until now, had this concept of reproducibility. Films
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: are not plays, you know, right, They're not find art piece.
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: This is that convergence of it's both. Now it's simultaneously
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: both at the same time if you're approaching it with
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: this model.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's it's the same exact concept as you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: the the nancat NFT selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think that, like, I don't understand that in
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: the least, But.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: Well, if that's the cultural gravitas of these memes that
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: are being sold, because it's coming from the people who
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: are actually you know, who created the meme off the bat.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: So not only is it like uh, it's it's the
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: official sort of meme version. And then the more that
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: people share the memes, the more valuable that original NFT becomes.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: So it's the exact same concept.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know you guys are a bit young
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: for this, but Garbage Pail Kids. Yeah, if you don't know,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: if you knew what garbage pail Kids were. But I
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: was a young guy when Garbage Pail Kids came out,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and I remember the first series of Garbage It's a
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: sticker man, It's a sticker on a piece of cardboard
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: that was not Mickey Mantle, which was not Spider Man.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: It was a garbage and they were selling for hundreds
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars. Pokemon cards, baseball cards, comic books,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: these things have values to the audience that they're to
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: the to the tribe that is invested in that. To
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: my wife a number one first appearance amazing fantasy number fifteen.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: First appearance of Spider Man is a bunch of paper.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: To me, it's like, oh my god, that's the first
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: appearance of Spider Man. And there's a complete disconnect. Like
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: she was like, how much is that going to cost?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, probably a million dollars, but
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you know, but to me, that's valuable and so art
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: is whatever value you put on it, period, regardless if
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: you agree with it or not.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's funny to think too, like like that the
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: interest economy of how like that's localized, Like you have
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: a like it's like a imagine a local economy where
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: like value is interspersed amongst itself and has its own
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: definition outside of something that exists over here, and it's
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: like things that exist on the blockchain with NFTs, Like
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: we have this dollar value that we can apply to it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: But it's like it's funny to think, yeah, like you
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: can have one thing over in this corner and that
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: can be worth so much to one person and then
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: you come over here and it's worthless.
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: But it's validating those interests.
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: It's saying within those communities, these things matter, and they
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: get to matter even more now.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, all you gotta do is go to comic
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: con and you can figure that out real quick. I mean,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I took my wife to my first
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: comic con a decade ago, and she was just in
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: like her mouth was on the floor. She's like, I
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: see these price tags on these on these little books.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: What is what's going on? She's completely no idea. She's like,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: people are dressed up like these are these are grown adults,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: and she would stop them, like what do you do
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: for a living? It's like, I'm an attorney what like.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: But that's but that is the world, and that's the
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: value that that world puts on on those pieces of art.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Where you could walk into a fine art museum or
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: a gallery and I would I would look at something
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, that doesn't doesn't float my boat.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: But the person right next to me like, I'll give
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: you one hundred thousand dollars for that because he knows
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: or she knows what that's valued in their community. So
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: this is just another the beginning, just barely starting ANIBA
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: level of this this market for films, and I think
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: independent filmmakers have the ability to really cash in and
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: create not only revenue streams for themselves, but to provide
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: some cultural cultural art for the society at large, and
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: like like Sundance, like Sundance Winners, south By Southwest Winters,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: con Winners, you know, these these things that have these
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: kind of labels like what would what would an NFT
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: from the winner of Best Picture at Sundance be worth today?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Because that that director could be worth hundreds of millions
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: of dollars later on because of oh I got there
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: for Imagine if you had sex lizes and videotape the
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: very first nineteen eighty nine, basically the beginning of Sundance,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: This is when Sundance blew up at the moment that
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Steven Soderbergh sold their movie at Sundance for a million
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: dollars or whatever it was back then. Imagine if there
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: was a if you had that NFT, what would that
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: be worth in or Slacker or El Mariachi or or
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: or or Clerks. Imagine if you had what would those
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: be worth? And they would only be worth something to
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: like my generation, your generation people whill understand what that is.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: The older generation would be like, I don't know what
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: it is that it depends well.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: The fact that we're talking about these films in this
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: context and we're realizing like, wow, how much would that
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: be worth? I mean it speaks to I think the
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: viability of of this this model that that we've come
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: up with here too, because you know, we're talking about
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: you know, why why are these you know, pieces of
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: paper worth so much?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Not only is it from the meme and.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: The the cultural aspect of it, it's also the scarcity
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: of it too. Write so like there's only so many
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: you know, holographic charge aards, if there's only so many
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: Spider Man first appearances, like the filmmakers will do very
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: well to understand these principles around economics, incentive, and scarcity.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: So the decision to mint a single n f T
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: was also driven by the scarcity question.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: So there's only ever gonna be We're not gonna mint
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: In addition, after this of you know, maybe other he
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: lives in Hidden Lakes NFTs, the film is only ever
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: going to be minted as a one of one n
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: f T, So that means that that's just automatic.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Built in scarcity. There's only ever gonna be one.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: So that's that the dynamic of that makes it much
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: much different than if we said, Okay, we're gonna mint
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: you know, fifty of these or one hundred or a thousand.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: So what that does is, you know, there's much good
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: work to be done in designing incentives around those types
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: of additions. But what happens then is that you have
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: to manage each one potentially being worthless and also in
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: demand as well. So it's it's you gotta you gotta
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: look at your trade offs with with this kind.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Of stuff too.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't I don't know if you guys
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: knew this, but I jumped into the NFT market when
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I did my first in my first interview, and I
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: put out I happen to be the first film tutorials
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: ever on YouTube, which makes me old as dirt, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I happened to be. I looked, and I looked, and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I looked. I'm like, I think I'm the first guy
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: ever to put and I'm I might be the first
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: movie trailer. I can't. I can't say that for sure,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: but I beat like Sony Classics, which was like four
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: or five months after I released my movie trailer for
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: my first short film in two thousand and four, so
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I don't and I can't find any movie trailers prior
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: to that. But I don't want to say that because
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that would be insane if I actually released
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the first movie trailer on YouTube. But I don't know.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I can't say I don't have an NFT for it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: We'll be back after a word from our sponsor. And
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: now back to the show. But I did put NFTs
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: out for the six videos that I put out on
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: that day, tutorials, and I put the first three out
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: just to see what would happen. They sold out within
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: two days. Yeah, because I only sel them for one
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: hundred bucks, but still it was just it was an experiment.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: They're like, hey, let's see what's going on here. So
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I put the rest of them out and there's been
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: slowly selling and it's just like, wow, that's cause that's
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: kind of cool, Like you have the first filmmaking tutorial. Now,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: who is that important to filmmakers or fans of mine?
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: You know, like something along those lines. You know, again,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: it's based on the perception of what that is valuable,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: what's valuable. There's YouTubers like you know whatever, qudie Pi
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: who's got whatever one hundred and fifty millions follow or
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: something like that to his followers. He puts out a
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: scribble on a piece of paper. There's value attached to that,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: which you and I would pretty much be like, let
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: me put my drink on that. But it's all about
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: perception and value and what people think the value is.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: It is a very it is n f T S
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and your model of n f T S as as
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: ludicrous or genius as a piece of cardboard with a
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: picture of a baseball player. Yeah, and someone attaching value
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to that. It's just a piece of cardboard with a
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: picture on it.
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: But because ultimately the goal is to turn Zach into
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: a human Pokemon card.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Nice, Nice, I will accept no less than ten million.
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: We're working on the holographic shirts right now.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: That's genius. So what are some tips that you can
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: put give the audience when they're creating using the PSD model.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: What are certain things that should be in place for
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: a good successful PSD model.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: NFT Yeah, I would say, I would say again scarcity
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: and looking very closely at the kind of utility that
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: you're including with UH, with the NFT because you want
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: to make sure that you're not giving.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Away more than you're willing to lose.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Right, It's like you know that that old rule of
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: investing is, you know, don't don't invest more than than.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: You can afford to lose.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: So we we went about it and we said, okay,
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: fifty percent of our streaming revenue is an acceptable uh
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: trade off for getting this you know upfront feet whatever
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: it may be. Because we tried to listen for forty
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: three ether and then we uh put the starting bit
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: at twelve ETHER. Now, I happen to think that it's
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: still worth that much, like we were just talking about,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: but because it's such a new thing, the market isn't
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: willing to dip its toes that far into it yet.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: So I would say, uh, make sure that you're that
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: you're the utility is not only beneficial mutually for you
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: and your patron, but also that your patron isn't uh
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: they don't have they try to minimize the work that
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: they have to do in order to capitalize on it.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: And also like I was, like I said at the.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: Beginning, you know U dinner and you know, uh tickets
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: to exclusive premieres and stuff. Oh, that's cool, you can
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: include that, but keep in mind that if you know
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: you resell it, do you want to offer that to
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: the new owners of that?
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: How often do you want to you know, keep that going.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: Uh, it's stuff like that is is less quantifiably valuable
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: to an investor or our collector. And I also want
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: to note that when I say investor in this context,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: much different from your investor that's going.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: To give you your budget to do the film.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: So it's an art investor, it's an art investor. It's different.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's much different.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: So you don't you don't owe them any money unless
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: you want to. Like we're we're owing our investor our
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: patron money. That's why I call it a patron and
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: not not an investor. But there's also uh, the next
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: project we're going to be doing is kind of exploring
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: how we can incorporate this model and do like a
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: hybrid ps.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: D crowdfunding model.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Because we we came into this already having the movie done,
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: so it had never been released before. We had just
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: finit it in uh you know, the the tail end
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: months of twenty twenty, so we had already had the
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: budget and we you know did it and you know
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: that's all done. So we were in a position where
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: we could say, okay, we don't have to pay anyone
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: back now because we were self financed. But now, how
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: do we use this stuff to viably crowdfund?
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: Well, what does it look like to explore the nooks
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: and crannies of incentive in development and how you know,
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: you know, Alex you were talking earlier, like you know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: if you have a star attached, you know, that's that's
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: often how distribution deals are made. You know, it said,
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: oh I was able to attach x y Z actor,
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: which you know, these kinds of audiences like this actor.
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: Here's here's the way of suring up your investment because
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: you know, you've you've done the calculus and you're like,
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: this will you know the likelihood of this exporting value
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: is higher because of this thing, And it's like, well,
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: what does that look like in today's a with so
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: many different corners of value in the Internet, Because what
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: does it look like when someone who does you know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: video tutorial podcasts and also someone who does fashion and
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: makeup videos, someone else who does video game streaming, and
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: you say, hey, I'm going to put you all in
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: the same movie, and what does that look like now
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: when now you're tapping value from all of these different
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: areas to say that yes, And also we're incorporating the
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: NFT universe and instead of incentivizing with you know, like
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: various crowdfunding perks and saying you get a T shirt
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: and those kinds of things, no, you have an NF.
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: Like what if there was a way to create an
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: NFT that could have value on the secondary market. And
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: so it's all about finding all of those different areas
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: of incentive. And for anyone that's looking to make projects
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: considering this as a model, you know it's there.
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: There are so many ways.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: It's ultimately so creative right now. You can do so
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: many different things, and right now we're just getting nitty
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: gritty for our next project about what that could look like.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Right And you can, i mean, in a crowdfunding say
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you can use, for example, someone you can crowdfund an
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: NFT and then just give them a percentage of based
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: on what they give a percentage of the final growth
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: or the final this or the final that's some sort
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: of incentive in that way. So it's almost like more
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: of an investment than a gift of a crowdfunding, So
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: it's now you're you're actually sourcing it out, and it's
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: all could be done on the on the blockchain, which
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: would be ideal. And I hope one day we get
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: to the place where all of distribution is done on
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: the blockchain and all payments are done on the blockchain,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: and everything's done with smart contracts, and and we don't
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: have to deal with this BS anymore. That you know,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: distributors do this, or distributors do that, or excuse me,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: let me rephrase predatory distributors do this, distributors do that,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: because not all distributors are bad by by any stretch.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of great ones out there, but
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we focused on the predators.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: Well, let's let's talk a little bit about how distribution
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: actually like functionally comes into this, right, So like for
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: anyone who's still kind of like skeptical a little bit
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: about it about this model we've done, I mean, we
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: sold it. So we we made you know, five thousand
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: dollars off of this, which is comparable to a minimum
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: guarantee might get it from a distributor if.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: You're lucky, If you're lucky, if you're.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: Lucky exactly if you're lucky, and well, now you get
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: the secondary you know, revenue stream from secondary sales too.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: But you know, think of it like that.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like, we can't because the other thing
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: that's happening with this is that we're retaining all the
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: rights to our film.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: We're not giving away any rights whatsoever.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: With this because the revenue stream and the NFT itself
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: are reason enough obviously for someone to collect it. So
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: now we could say, Okay, now we're going to go
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: to a distributor and collect a minimum guarantee from them.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: So that's an you know, another.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Possible avenue for so yeah, especially like you were saying earlier, Alex,
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: this is like another revenue stream for the film that
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: will also work to hopefully automate some of the marketing
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: lift that you have to do by virtue of it
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: being this transferable meme capture units so to speak.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Right, and if you had a let's say you did
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: one thousand units. Let's say I'm just throwing that out there,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: a thousand units, and that those thousand units are worth
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: ten to fifteen percent of your revenue. Jumping in, I'm
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: just going off the top here, so you put away
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: fifteen percent of all revenue, it's going to go to
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: this one hundred units that you're going to sell on
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: crowd sourcing, a crowdfunding excuse me. And then all of
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: a sudden, all those people who buy those hundred people
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: they're going to be incentivized to market that live in
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: hell out of this and get this out in the world.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: And if you did that with a thousand and broke
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: up that fifteen percent accordingly that way, then you even
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: have more. So it all depends on what you're doing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: And then you could also put a price tag on
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: all of that just to get in the game. There's
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: so many different routes you can go on. This is
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: it is essentially the wild wild West right now.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: It's the Internet circa ninety six. Man, it is like
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: the wild wild West.
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: You can take a look and see just like what's
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: happening on the internet. How are people communicating on the internet?
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: How are people pointing a camera at themselves? How are
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: people quote unquote influencing? And then like how can and
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: taking a look at that and being like, hmm, there
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: is some serious untapped potential through this communication mechanism for
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: getting new ideas, getting new films out into the world
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: and seen by people. And it's just about connecting the dots.
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: It's just saying you come over here, you come over here,
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: let's do this thing. It's you know, in some ways
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: uses the same philosophy as like if you're a YouTuber.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:09
  Speaker 6: And you want to like go on someone else's show
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: to get to get some other audience to come see
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: your thing, and you cross pollinate.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: I mean that's essentially it's taking that and it's scaling
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: it up and using the blockchain in order to do that.
• 40:20
  Speaker 6: And it's all like Zach and I love to just like,
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: you know, one of our favorite things about this whole
• 40:24
  Speaker 6: thing is that it's just it's all memes.
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: Memes.
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: Me everything is a meme, and like that is like
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: pretty like you know, core to our philosophy in all
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: of this. It's like, what can we do with memes?
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: What can we do to make people think about memes?
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: And that's a cornerstone of the mythos that we're trying
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: to create with a bigger world that we're actually working on.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Now you guys also created a physical version of the
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: NFT to send to the person who purchased it, which
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I think is awesome. How do you How did you
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: create it? Because it looked awesome from the pictures I
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: saw what was the cost? If you don't mind me asking,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: look at that. That's a customized situation. So what was
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: that situation done? I was done.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: So that was a nightmare to put together.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: But I'll just be front up front and get this
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: so our our collector wishes to remain anonymous for now,
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: but they told me, like, hang on to it. I'll
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: redeem it when I feel like it. So I still
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: have it, like it hasn't left my house yet, which
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: I'm fine with because you know, I appreciate that, like
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: it's it's it's gorgeous and we're pretty proud of it.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: No, it looks stunning. I was like, that's gorgeous. Like
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: that looks like a special, special, special freaking criterion, you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: to the degree kind of one. On one hand, drum,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's beautiful.
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: Okay, you're making us blush.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: It's nice. Appreciate that, Yeah, very proud of it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: But in terms of the logistics, yeah, it was so
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: not many you know, packaging manufacturers take one off orders,
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: and the ones that do are are pretty pretty pricey.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: And see, here's the thing too, is that we didn't
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: have to do that. Obviously our patron doesn't even really
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: want it right now, which is some thing. It's a
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: phenomenon that's happening in the crypto art collectible space with NFTs,
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: where it's like, you know, there are artists who offer,
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: you know, the physical painting with the NFT, and collectors
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: will say, I don't want any physicals, I just want
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: the I just want the JPEG and my wall and
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: that's totally cool. So we went into a kind of
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: half expecting that. But for me, you know, like you
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: know I mentioned earlier, I come from a fine arts background.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: I like having like a physical artifact for the film
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: that I've created.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: But you know, obviously I'll put it this way.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: It was a lot of money, probably more than I
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: would recommend for someone else who's trying to do this,
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: But it is a very cool thing. And when it's
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: in the museum, you know, in twenty thirty forty years,
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: that's a nice little museum, you know, I'm just kidding.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: And when everyone understands my genius by then. I mean,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: you know, hopefully I won't be Van Go when I'm
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: dead and they'll go, oh, Zach, no, I get it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I guess yeah, no, No, I'm sorry. I just saw
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: I saw a clip from I don't even watch Doctor Who,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: but I saw a clip where they brought back Van
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Go and they brought him into the museum.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Oh I've seen that.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so like you just start tearing
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: up like an artist, just like, oh my god, it
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: was so beautif anyway, sorry geeked out for a second. Guy, Sorry,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I apologize that. So so did you, but I am I wrong.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Did you not create any other NFT things for like,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: you know, stills of the movie or other things, or did.
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: You you know you're getting into sort of the next
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: chapter for us, and you know we're working on a
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: big part of I mean, I can let Zach take
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: over sort of talking about like the content of the
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: movie itself, because I think it's specific to like, it's
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: kind of amazing what work ended up working at, what
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: we ended up having in our lap at a time
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: when Crypto was around, it's kind of came to the
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: mainstream and our film is about a cryptid, like a
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: like a Bigfoot esque Sasquatchean figure Cryptid. Cryptid meets Crypto,
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: and it was just like this perfect marriage of like
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: what can we do with that?
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: And I feel like I let Zach kind of take
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: over from there.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's so many places to go from that.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: You know. It's like so one of the ideas we
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: have is you know, uh build, So.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: Essentially what we're trying to get at now the phase
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: that the project is in is we are taking this
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: feature film that we have and we're trying to use
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: these community incentives to build an audience around the IP itself.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: So you know, we we can get into like the
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: specifics of the plan, but we're we're going to be
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: minting more NFTs around the the fiction and the lore
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: of this of this you know, essentially a monster movie
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: mocumentary IP, so you know, like minting specific clips from
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: you know, the film, like, oh, here's a found footage.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: So Crypti is called the Hidden Man. It's a proprietary
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: monster that we came up with. You know, here's a
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: a an eight millimeter still or a film clip that
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: we that we used.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we actually used an eight milimeter.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: Camera for some of it, you know, a nice little
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: badge of honor there. But yeah, like minting stuff like
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: that and then using that to sort of do you know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: add more value into the IP through those specific items
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: of merchandise where it's like at a lower level, you know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: you're never get you you're only one person can ever
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: have the actual film NFT.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: But you can own pieces of the film.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: You can own merchandise of the film that also give
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: you like community benefit within the community that we're trying
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: to build.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna pitch you guys something for an NFT.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Please bear with me. This is a real thing. This
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: is a real thing. This is not making this up.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: But there is such a thing called bigfoot erotica. Now
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: wait for it, wait for it, wait for it. My
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: friend told me about this, and I'm like, oh my god,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: this is genius. Anyone listening right now, when you're done,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: listen to this episode, type at google bigfoot erotica and
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: just just lose your mind at what you'll you'll find out.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: There's no, it's not just like pictures. It's like stories,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: like books, novels, ebooks about It's is amazing. I can't
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: believe you guys haven't known about this. But the best,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: but the best part was I had a friend of
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: mine who's like, man, my brother's really giving me a
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: hard time. I'm like, this is what you do. Go
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: to his house and he's married. He goes go to
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: his house and go on his computer and just start
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of Google search for Bigfoot erotica and
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: leave it on this leave it on his on his stack,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: and let his wife find it. It's exactly what he
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: exactly what happened. And he left. He left, and then
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: his wife, like my brother calls him, like, dude, did
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: you were you were you searching Bigfoot of ronica on
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: my computer? My wife thinks I'm doing I'm like, I
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: have no idea what you're talking about. You're sick and disgusting.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: And he hangs up.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So that's savage. That is savage. But that's that's their relationship.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I don't get involved.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: But he is a tool to ruin a marriage.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, but just or or just or
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: just uh, you know, hidden man erotica. I'm just throwing
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: it out there, just throwing it out.
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: I can add that to the Technically, the proprietary world
• 47:30
  Speaker 6: of the IP why not, Well, Zach is speechlessly.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: If anyone listening, everyone's listening. I see Snack's face. It's
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: just like, it's all right now. He can't even speak.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Like, yes, obviously, obviously this is the thing that should happen. Oh,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: it's funny.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: Actually, in the early days of the film, when I
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: was exploring ideas, I was.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: Like, what if we had a romantic encounter there?
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: This is a whole whole market that you guys are
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: not serving, sir, There's a whole market you could be
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: just selling this stuff too.
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: I'm just we're not saying there isn't a romantic encounter.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: There might be. There might be, there might be.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: Let's get into me and Anthony, have you know, we
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: want to We've got a very specific idea on how
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: we can take this even further. So a new concept,
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: a new blockchain concept that people maybe are not as
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: familiar with, is is a dow a d A.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Have you heard of this?
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't.
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: Decentralized autonomous organization.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Oh I've heard of decentralized for banks, but not for organization. Okay,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: so talk to me about that.
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: So there's been DeFi, which is decentralized finance yep, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: that's very cool. The next step after DeFi, after NFTs
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: is downs, so decentralized autonomous organizations. And these are essentially
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: corporate structures or business structures where it's not really run
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: by anyone, there's not really a corporate hierarchy, and the
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: governance of the organization is equally spread out among all
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: of its members. So essentially anyone can come in by
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: the governance token, the you know, the currency that's native
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: to the Dow organization and start working on projects and
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: getting paid for it.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: So we're still doing a lot of research on how
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: It's imagine a decentralized production company where every all the
• 49:31
  Speaker 6: fans get to vote on what the next project is.
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: That's what we're working on.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: And they're paying and they and they pay for and
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: they'll pay for it by paying into they can help
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: finance it.
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: It creates a liquidity pool essentially, yeah.
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and they get rewarded for financing the production. And
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: also what's going to happen is we're going we're creating
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: uh now, this is this is very early stages here,
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: but we're really excited about it. The core component of
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: how this dow is going to work is essentially it's
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: going to manage the Hidden Lakes IP.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: So, uh, you know, the the the our film is
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: just the first installment of this IP. We're gonna be
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: making sequels and stuff. And part of how we're going
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: to get that done is that we're gonna fractionalize and
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: decentralize uh licensing.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: To the IP itself.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: So we're gonna say, Okay, we're gonna mint a set
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: of ten thousand tokens. You buy a token, you can
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: send it back to the Ethereum contract and uh so
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: it's you know, not in our control, it's in you know,
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: the contract itself. And for as long as that's in
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: the contract, as long as you're you know, in this bank, uh,
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: you get in return a license to use the IP
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: however you want. Thanks Steff for man pornography.
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the thing.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: The thing is like erotic assert erotic U. There is
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: a difference. Let's clarify that right now between bigfoot porn
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: and big you can't make porn correct, there's a difference
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: there's a difference, sir.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: It's it's it's.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: We're kind of people are gonna think like that. I've like,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: look enjoint big. I'm the one that started this, all right.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I know right now, I know somebody right now listening
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: to this is like curving off the road laughing at
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: like the big Oh Jesus, no, this all sounds great. Look,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: this is the thing where we're so early on in
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: this whole this whole experiment of NFTs and blockchain everything.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I've said this before on the show. I'll say it again.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Blockchains is as or more important than the Internet is
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: to human civilization and people, people who don't understand that statement,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: you will just the same way as people in nine
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: ninety six said the Internet's going to change everything. Just
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: like that guy who shot that rocket up into space
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: the other day that looked like something that I won't
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: say on it looked like Bigfoot of Rotica. His rocket
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: looked like Bigfoot of Rotica. That guy said, Hey, I'm
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: going to sell books on the Internet, and now he
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: sells everything that That's the same thing that blockchain is
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: going to do. We're just not there yet, and we
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: will get there. And it's getting there. It's growing fast
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: and there's issues. And I think you said it in
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: your article as well, Zach about you know, theorum will
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: become cheaper, it will become a greener. It's just a
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: lot of electricity that runs through to get all this stuff.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: So it's gonna get It's it's just like dial up
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: man in ninety six, ninety five, ninety four. It's like
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: dial up. It's like, how can anyone can even think
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: or conceive that I could buy something on the internet?
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Remember that, how old are you? Guys are younger that
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: much younger than me. So I remember the time was
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: like people were like, I'm not putting my credit card online.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Like that was people were like, I'm not putting my
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: credit card online that they're going to steal my identity.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: That was the mentality back then. That's where we are
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: right now with blockchain. I think in five or ten years,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: blockchain will be at a completely different place. Crypto I
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: think will be probably at a completely different place. And
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: what you guys are talking about and defy and and
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: now and all this these kind of concepts I think
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: are really going to help not only the world, but
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: in our little microcosm of independent film. It's giving a
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: lot of power back to us.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, is that
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: like this, like the paradigm shift that's happening that mirrors
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: the Internet revolution.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: That's the main people who are.
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: Going to benefit from our independent creators. So what this
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: technology does is it cut outs the middleman. It cut
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: outs the big centralized institutions that tell you yes or no.
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: It's really going to power the empower the individual creators
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: who want to you know, contribute things to their favorite
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: stuff and make money in the process.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: And you and you, so you give away fifty percent
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: of all streaming rights. But of right now, you still
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: have to do the accounting. In other words, the money
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: has to come into an account and then you've got
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: to convert that into ethereum or whatever, you know, whatever
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: stable coin or whatever you're going to use to pay
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: that person exactly.
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: So that that goes to show how early we are
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: where you know, in five years that will all be
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: able to be able to get done on chain. Right now,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: there's not really a solution for that, so we you know,
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: for however long that would take, and we'll just say, okay,
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: we're just going to do the accounting ourselves.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: You know that. Being said, you know that it may
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: be that.
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: Not only is the smart contract upbradable and that we
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: can automate that, you know, from the token on chain,
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: or we could we could find a crypto powered streaming
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: platform which is also a new territory where the film
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: will be online and you can watch it for free
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: and also maybe even get paid for watching it. And
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: it also probably give us a better rate streaming wise
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: than you know, Amazon Prime for Vimeo on demands.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: You mean a penny for an hour? Is that not fair?
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: I think that's more than fair. I don't understand. I mean,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: didn't you hear that that? Jeff Bezos thanks us all
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: for having him go up into space.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, built on the backs of independent filmmakers.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, don't even get me started. Happen we made it
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: was all us. We started off at fifteen cents. Now
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: he's down in one sense. What happened with those fourteen cents?
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Boom into Space? Big Foot e rotica. Anyway, So another
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: big player jumped on the scene in the NFT world,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: which is Kenn Smith, and he came on with his
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: film kil Roy was here, but he did the opposite
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: of what you guys did He's literally selling or giving
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: his distribution rights away to this film. What do you
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: think of that? And how do you think that model
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: is gonna work? Did he even sell it yet? I
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: don't even know if he sold it yet.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's online.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: So we've been we That was actually his announcement of
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: That was actually the reason why we press the launch
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: button on this project, because we've been building it since
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: like March. We're like, oh no, we gotta we gotta
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: beat up to the punch. But uh yeah, I don't
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: think it's online. But again it's like it's it's very
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: similar to what we're doing, but there's also some key
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: differences that kind of make it. I I prefer to
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: not take that approach simply because, like I was saying earlier,
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: you don't want to make your patron work too much
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: to exercise their their utility that you give them. So
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: with Kevin Smith's n FT, which also is being minted
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: on the Phantasma chain, which is different from Ethereum, and
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: we can maybe get into you know what chain you
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: should actually mint on, but regardless of that.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: That's very technical knowledge.
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: Essentially, the the the best person who's gonna want to
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: buy the Kevin Smith n FT is a distributor, So like,
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: if you come come at it from our perspective where
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: we're our target market for this, n FT is a
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: private individual collector.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: They're not gonna know how to how the.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: Hell to distribute this thing, right, So, uh, if you're
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: giving them the entirety of your distribution rights, that's cool.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: Just know that your market is much more different and
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: you're probably it's it's it's like, if you're selling to
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: a distributor and you're looking to give the distributor your
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: rights with the n FT, you probably don't even need
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: an n FT. Like that's pretty much just the exact
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: same thing as a deal you would strike.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: And I think he's just I think he's just trying
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: to get some hype over it, and that's all it was,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: because he's actually selling, like you know, James Simon, Bob
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: NFTs and he's making a mint with them. Uh, you
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: know all those like cool little mean stuff like that.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: He's it's not stupid that sense. He's definitely. I mean,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: he was one of the first podcasters. He was he
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: jumped on the podwagon years ago before it was cool uh,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: and and everybody had a podcast. Uh. And people tell me,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you jumped in early. My dude, I
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: jumped in six years ago, like Kevin Smith jumped in
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: like a decade or more ago. Like it's it was insane.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Respect Joe Rogan frick Man, he's jumped like oh nine,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: you like couldn't get that damn thing to stream. I
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: saw the first in the first podcast, it was just
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: like trying to make it work, and it was like
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: like three twenty by you know, by two forty videos,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Like it was horrible. Uh, but you just made a
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: hundred million bucks and that's not bad. Did Okay, it's good,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: good ROI.
• 58:21
  Speaker 6: So I think, like you know, anyone that's doing anything
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: in the NFT space is just like adding to the
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: value of everyone else that's trying to work on it apps.
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: Like we're all just trying to like I said, like
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: for us, it's an experiment, Like we're curious about other
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: people's case studies.
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: We want to see what they're doing.
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: We want to see like what models of incentive they're
• 58:39
  Speaker 6: developing and kind of like you know, works some magic.
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: I mean, we're all really excited about the new technology.
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: We need people to know about it. This is still
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: super inaccessible to like an audience, Like they don't most
• 58:50
  Speaker 6: people don't understand.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: This stuff, and so it's just like we need more
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: people to be interested.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I mean I had to I had to educate. I
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: took it took me like half a day to figure
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: out how to mint something. Like the technology so clunky.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: It's just so clunky to get stuff done. Now, I'm like,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: my god, isn't someone figured this out to make this
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: a little easier, Like it doesn't seem that difficult. But
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: it was like, and I use Mintable because it was
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: the easiest. Open Sea was like too expensive. They want
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: to gas freeze up front, Mintable to gas freeze on
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: the on the end. Now we're like talking in languages
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: that nobody else understands. But but yeah, but it was
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: it just and even then Mintable was still like a
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: pain in the butt to figure out. It's just it's
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: still so early, man, We're still so so early. Now.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: One thing I want to ask you is we're talking
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: about all these NFTs and independent film and all that stuff.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Not every project is going to be a good candidate
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: for an NFT. So what make how do you how
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: does a filmmaker know if their project makes sense for
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: this world?
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: You know, this is an awesome question, and I think
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: Zach and I probably talk about this every day, and
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: I think what makes particularly like understand like internet communities.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: Like if and who you're from a development perspective, who
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: are the people who are going to be investing in
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: your project to actually like make it happen so you
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: can go into production and those kinds of things. Who
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 6: is your like financing audience essentially, and like our film
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: specifically is targeted towards like village voice myth making and
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 6: where does that happen.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: Happens on the Internet.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 6: We're doing that every single day, and so thematically our
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 6: project is designed to be talked about on the Internet,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: and it's like self conscious of that, and we think
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 6: that that in itself is interesting to people who are
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 6: on the Internet creating and sharing memes and using that
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: as a form of communication.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: And so specifically for this world that we're building out,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: which is.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 6: Like like like a modern mythos, basically that's using the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: Internet as like as like a community standpoint, people who
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 6: are moving money on the Internet, people who are in
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 6: crypto communities and want to see content that is more
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 6: directly related to them and their user experience. Those are
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: the people that we think right now, because it's the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: initial audience in this world that are going to be
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: interested in funding projects and seeing things that reflect back
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 6: like interesting elements to them.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say, if you're trying to build a
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: community like that and you're trying to build an audience
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: into the IP and it's like the shared experience, this
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: is definitely NFTs are definitely the route for you, and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: I think you know, to for on a more logistical point,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: this is definitely geared to, like like the PSD model itself.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: It's assuming that you already have you know, you already
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: have a completed film first of all, and that film
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: is probably going to be low budget, like we were
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: talking about earlier, it's probably going to be the director driven.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: To you know, take the fine art sort of box
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: and you.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Know, like we were talking about before, you know, maybe
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: if you have like a decent name talent, maybe you
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: don't need.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: You know, the boost that this as D model would
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: attempt to give you.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, maybe that's an incentive to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: grab an even more a higher price at the auction. Right,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: So like, oh, Brad Pitt is in this one of
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: one NFT movie. I'm an art collector. I have a
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: Jackson Pollock and Mark Rothko in my collection. I can
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: throw a million dollars at the new Brad Pitt movie NFT.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: That'll be fifty million dollars in fifty years.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: So what would what would a Kubrick be worth? What
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: would be what would what would Kurosawa would be worth?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: And now we have Nolan, Fincher, Spielberg, Scorsese, you know what,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: what's the Godfather worth?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: It's just I think once mainstream Hollywood and some of
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: these directors start figuring these things out, they're gonna go,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: oh wait a minute, and we can make not only
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: can we make some money with this, but we can
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: actually insert ourselves into the conversation culturally just and and uh,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: who was who was the filmmaker?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: God?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: I forgot, I lost my train of thought. But but yeah,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's worth that. And I think once filmmakers
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: are able to these higher end filmmakers start doing things
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: like that, you know what would a Fincher n f
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: TV worth man, Yeah, what did a Nolan fin What
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: would a Nolan you know, what would tenant be worth?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that line of thinking again is very different
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: from saying, Okay, we're gonna you know, we're gonna have
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: n FT tickets where you know, that might still be
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: worth something that's more like a like a collectible, you know,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: Pokemon card or like a Beatles seeket from like you know,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty nine or something like that. So it's it's
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: like almost like two different asset classes. You have the
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: scarce sort of fine art NFTs, and you also have
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: the fungible quote unquote like merchandise.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: At FT, collectible collectibles exact.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Yep. So there are two different asset classes.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: And when we're thinking about what is a David Fincher
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: worth or was it Chris owerworth?
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Like that to me, is the.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: Fine art at least like chars are for sure?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and obviously bigfoot erotica.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: So Pokemon cards a game, guys.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna ask a few questions to ask on
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: my guest guys, what advice would you get filmmakers trying
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: to break into the business today?
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: You take that one the advice I would give you
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 6: is focus on what's in front of you and figure
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 6: out how to like build a team around the things
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 6: that you're stoked about, and like don't be afraid to
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 6: just like.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 5: Not sorry, I'm blanking on this. Actually I terribly giving advice.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 6: What I'll say about this is that when I was
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 6: in college, there were classes that were offered to me,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 6: and I felt like that wasn't meeting the needs of
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: what I wanted to get out of my education. So
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 6: I figured out that I actually had the agency to
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 6: create my own class and get credit for it and
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 6: bring people on and make the movies that I wanted
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 6: to make. And I didn't have to wait for anyone
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: to tell to give me a curriculum to do that.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 6: So get creative. There's tons of opportunities out there. You
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 6: don't have to just follow what's given to you.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: What is the.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: No go ahead that Anthony anthlete perfect answer for that.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: What is the lesson that took you, guys the longest
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: to learn, whether in the film industry or in life.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: Tax credit financing, touche, sir, touche, touche.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: That's a that's a very fine, fine, fine lesson to
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: learn tax credit financing. Everyone, tax credit financing. First time
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: in almost five hundred episodes, someone said, tax credit financing is.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 6: Something about how valuable it is, and uh, it's actually
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: big on that amazing tax credit.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: And three of your favorite films of all time?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Oh uh, mine are weird.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: I like two thousand and one, I like Napoleon Dynamite.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: And the third one is a toss up between mystery
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: Men and bad Lands.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Oh that's a hell of a combination of films there. There,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: that's I'm trying to put connecting dots. I'm like, I
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: connected to and I took connected to mystery Men. Wow,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: mystery Men, first time on the show mystery Men. That's
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: I love. I love mystery Men. What a cast, What
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: an insane cast.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: They had the production design like the writing smash mouth,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: smash mouth, smash mouth man man.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's that's mine.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: How about how about you, Anthony?
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: I'll say Princess Mononoke, yes, little Miss Sunshine, classic Indie,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 6: and I will just say Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 6: Stone probably if honest?
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Sure, Hey yeah, nice.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: Is the magic of childhood?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it's and it's a nice Christmas movie. It's
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: like every time it's I always watched it during Christmas,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: That's when they came out. So I always associate Harry
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Potter movies with Christmas as well. So and where can
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: people find out about your NFTs, about your films, about
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: your projects and so on.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you can learn about the film and the
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: n f T at who is.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: The Hiddenman dot com.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: Uh, that's where all of our links are, and also
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: follow Hidden Ones Dow DAO on Twitter.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: You can join our discord too to get the drop
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: on that cool dow project that we're doing, which is
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: the next step of this.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: Oh and also the film is live on.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: Vimeo on demand too, so you can search for He
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: Who Lives in Hitt Lakes on Vimeo and demand and
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: it'll be on Prime video as well soon.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: And you're and you're using film hub as well, right.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we are using film help discover them through indie
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: film hustles, So thank you to that.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there are some good they're doing some good
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: work over there. Trying trying, everyone's trying. Anyone's trying to
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: cut every Like I said, everyone's trying to break you know,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: you know, break that nut. No, one can crack it.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: No one's cracked the nut yet on on on the
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Perfect Model, I think it's always shifting and moving and
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: and but this is awesome, man. I thank you guys
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: so much for coming on the show. I'm excited anytime
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: I hear in new ways the filmmakers make money with
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: their films, especially when it comes to the blockchain, I'm
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: all about it. So thank you guys so much for
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: coming on the show.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, thanks for having us. Alex, Yeah, thank you
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Anthony and Zach for coming on
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: the show and dropping their NFT knowledge bombs on the
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: drive today. Thank you so much.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: If you want to get links to anything we spoke
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: about in this episode, head over to the show notes.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: I had Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv forward slash for zero eight.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening, guys, as always, keep
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.