Latest / The Scrambling Dads Podcast / Episode 037: Swing Science: Hacking Your Motor Learning for Lower Scores
Transcript
- Speaker 2: We are back with IGP. We've been saying we're going to do this for a month now, I think. ⁓ And we've had to reschedule because of Senor Benhamin over there. How's Kiddo doing? Speaker 1: He's big, fat, chunky. Came out at eight pounds, he's at 12 pounds. Speaker 2: Perfect. All the good things. Speaker 3: That's a big boy. Speaker 2: It is Eve. Speaker 1: We joke, actually I don't joke, my wife jokes that he's just addicted to the titty bar. What? Like yeah, seriously. I mean yeah, I know, I get it. But he's milk drunk frequently. And uh, he is powering through life. Speaker 2: I mean, what guy is it? Speaker 3: He's learning quick. Speaker 2: Sleeping a lot though. Speaker 3: Nice. So far. Speaker 1: awesome and little well big bro he says I'm medium bro until I'm four and he'll be four in two weeks I don't get it he's in his own world but he's been really good he'll squeeze his face it looks aggressive but I think he's like messing with us I'm gonna make like I'm squeezing him but I'm gonna be gentle and you know we're like yeah we love him but don't like suffocate him but he does a good job Speaker 2: Hello I always like to ask this of especially new parents, right? It's always what were you told was going to be hard? That's easy. What were you told was going to be easy? That's hard. I'm going flip that a little bit. What about child number two so far has been harder or easier than child number one? Speaker 1: Wow, I mean it is insanely different. Yeah, so Mama is just like, she's got to support her as much as possible. And I think we, I take that for granted because she's just holding things down. She's great at what she does, but at the same time it's like she's with that baby 24 hours a Like there's not really more than a few minutes that goes by per day where she is responsible and aware of this being. And so it's like, cool, you're holding it down, but then like for me I'm like, ⁓ okay, I need to not just take care of the toddler, but also like give her some time and space because it's hard for her to even go like change clothes. Because little baby there like... He's hungry, he's thirsty and fortunately he can't move yet but he's very demanding. He wants his mama. So I think just being aware of more, there's another variable. You add one and then you've got a four year old who is a menace. so tracking him down, supporting her, taking care of baby and then. I guess for me trying to take care of the other baby, which is this baby, yeah, juggling a few things. I like to juggle, but not like five. I can juggle three balls. I haven't mastered like tricks in juggling or four or certainly five. So. Speaker 3: Just a Speaker 2: to you. So it's safe to say you're at that point that you feel like you're doing the bare minimum while simultaneously failing at everything. Speaker 1: It's literally one step at a time. That's it. It's one foot in front of another. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 3: Alright, what's something that you've changed going through? Alright, baby number one, first child, and then now you got second child. Have you taken a little bit different approach to... Speaker 1: I think baby number two is way more chilled probably because second go around it's like all right more relaxed I think mama's more relaxed I think it's you know in that sense more experience obviously so you're less concerned about when he is going through regressions or growing pains like cool this is just part of something Speaker 3: You're more relaxed. Speaker 2: Were you ready to get out of the hospital? Speaker 1: Dude, we did it at home. Earth at home. I caught Mateo. I caught Davey. Blue 32. Same delivery position, same pass. ⁓ This time I was more ready. That was cool. We kind of the midwife. Speaker 2: ⁓ okay. Do you say hot Hot pot, yes. That's awesome. Speaker 1: predicted everything. It's like, okay, it's not her first rodeo. So we put him down and as soon as Dovey was down, her water broke. So she came upstairs, water broke, we had everything prepared. We were debating whether we should go to the midwife house or just stay there. And things were progressing quickly so we're like yeah let's just do it here and labor in the bedroom doula midwife sister all coming into the house davi sleeps through the whole thing i guess this is pretty common wow for in-home births like i don't know i think the mother's brain just kind of knows okay he's down Speaker 2: kids are down I can relax and do my thing Speaker 1: Because technically we're in labor for several hours. Speaker 2: Yeah, no medication. Wow. That's impressive. Speaker 3: No pain killers. Speaker 1: which I guess that's how they did it in the older mid-life. And evidently, this was all new to me. I learned a lot with the mid-life, but you know, guess the body just releases the hormones in the right time to kind of get them through the birth. So these natural drugs do kick in. Pretty intense first go around, second go around way too Speaker 3: Yeah Speaker 2: You kind of knew what was going on. Speaker 1: Also the body was just ready to you know, I've done this once This bird goes like the midwife halfway through she's like, I don't know you guys might need to go to the hospital and my wife is like And we're like, yeah, you're barely moving the needle and you are in pain. And then like, I don't know, she hit another level and then we ended up giving birth at the midwife home. then again, this time around they're like, yeah, this will probably happen this way. And just like that. Yeah. And then the doula was amazing. The midwife was amazing. Speaker 3: Her body remembered it was easy Speaker 1: You know, at the end, the midwife was like, hey, do you want to see the placenta? And she was just so excited about it. was like, yeah. And so she lays it out in the bathroom and she's like, this is the sack. These are all the vessels. And it's beautiful. She lays this thing out. It's like half the size of this table. Wow. And she's like, look, it's a tree. It's the tree of life. That's why my logo is a tree. And the placenta literally just looks like this beautiful, bountiful tree. And it was cool seeing her admire the placenta so much. I like that is super cool. I mean that's literally his vessel and so you know they do whatever they do but send some people to save the stem cells and all that. I'm like FOMO, I'm like should I save them? I'm not getting any younger. They're like that shit's expensive. Man, maybe I can just like blend them up, put them in my smoothie. Speaker 3: Yeah. Alright. Speaker 1: I got some discs that are degenerating a little bit. I should... placenta looks nice. It's a good placenta. Yeah, cut the umbilical cord and then, you know, do skin to skin and then they're out. And it's like, okay, cool, baby at home. The next morning, Davi's like, hey, potato. Yeah, right on. This is cool. Let me squeeze you. Speaker 3: The same, I should have done that. Speaker 2: Awesome. Speaker 3: Squeeze your mouth. Speaker 1: ⁓ Pro tip, my wife did a bunch of research and she ⁓ had gifts from Matteo to Davee. He had a little baby Charlie Brown and so we were like, Davee, Matteo brought you a gift. and it was like a baby Charlie Brown and Debbie was like, ha, that's cool, like it's my baby. And he like pretended it was in his belly. And we also gave him a puzzle, because Debbie likes puzzles. And so he was like, cool, thanks, Mattel. Like, you know, you're my homie. And then a few weeks later, he's like, Mattel brought me, why are you bringing me a Charlie Brown? I was like, don't worry about it, But you know, I think it's common for older sibling to be a little. jealous, of course, I think that's very common. So with the gift, was like, you know, got him on his good side. And plus he's like, dude, Mateo screams a lot. He's loud. He's very loud. But when Homeboy's giving you gifts and he's your number one fan, you can give him a little longer leash. Speaker 2: One of my sons asked if we could take Bella back to the hospital. So we did. Bam! Speaker 3: Thanks. Speaker 2: here for good. Speaker 3: ⁓ my god, that's funny. Speaker 2: Okay, well, great way to start the show. Speaker 3: That is good updates. ⁓ yeah, you're Speaker 1: Excuse me for a sec. Speaker 2: with a bunch of baby conversation as he gets called. Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but, baby stuff. Speaker 2: Seriously. Speaker 3: It all depends. Speaker 2: He can yell at them while he's down there where he starts walking back. Sounds great. off the coast. Still went back down. Speaker 3: This one is more subtle. they would probably clean it up fine. Just that more was so blended in with our audio that it was just bad. It's just so bad. You heard it. And then even at some points it was going like a little hyper. This is like, what happened to us? I was like, did I hit a fast forward pull button as it was going? I don't even know what was on the agenda. What was on the agenda? Speaker 2: today. We're gonna talk about my lesson, mainly because he's played with me and coached me and he's played with me. So it's we can all talk through on the constraints level. Speaker 3: the mental strength. Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm gonna have an agenda today, since no one reads my texts or responds to them. Speaker 1: about it. Speaker 3: I was busy today. Speaker 2: So one of the dads on the baseball team was really big into... baseball cards or a card that John sports from his school. So we're going to create the baseball cards for the kids. Speaker 3: What do? Why not? Well you sent me the baseball card template and just printed it cardstock. Speaker 2: Yeah, so I told him I would handle the design. He does, he's our statistician, so he has all the stats. Speaker 3: not sure if I'll the step pedals, that's on back. Speaker 2: I'll do the design, you send me all the information and then I will send you the PDFs and you can go handle the print and the packaging. Speaker 3: We need to make an Alex Castamero PGA Tour baseball card and then put your season stats on the back. That's me. Speaker 2: reason right 10 % fairways in regulation. Speaker 3: Average 31.6 putts around. Speaker 2: R5 score of a 6.5. Speaker 3: Average distance to pin on first approach shot 33.7 feet. Up and downs, zero percent. ⁓ What's another one? The bounce back. Speaker 2: It's my right now with my driving because even like my track man, I set my auto one to four feet. So I said really tight. And even with that, my track man has a plus one point. It's like I'm hitting grains. It is getting off the tee. That is my biggest. You don't say. ⁓ I know. I know. I'm not saying anything that no one doesn't know with this table. Not doing what you're doing. Have I tried not sucking at a driver? Yeah. Multiple times. Speaker 3: See I'm trying to think, actually on the scramble, don't know if we used your tee. I don't think we used many of your tee shots when we scrambled. Speaker 2: All That's not true. We use a lot of them. Speaker 3: I think we use more of KDs. Speaker 2: We did use a of his, but that's because he was hitting 30 yards less than me with dead straight. Speaker 3: Yeah, or he had a nice draw on him. Speaker 2: No, we used mine quite a bit. was just, I was also going last on a lot of them. And it was just a hauling. I hit my mini driver once. I was hitting my driver. Speaker 3: except the one time you pulled the wrong one I remember you walked like dang I pulled the wrong one Speaker 2: I get to the tee, and this point we have been waiting. I grabbed my mini driver and set it on my driver, and I had it teed up for a driver. Speaker 3: He just went smiling and ⁓ then you skied it right. Speaker 2: And I said, fuck it, we're going. And I have the basin right. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: Welcome back. Speaker 1: Thanks. Speaker 2: So we are going to talk through since, this isn't guess me being conceited or selfish, but since all of you have tied to my game, wanna talk to my lesson. And kind of some things that clicked in that because we had a good conversation about constraints, which is exactly what Colin and I talked about earlier before the podcast. And then Jason has had the luxury of seeing, because we played a scramble together last Thursday, which was after my lesson, and maybe seeing some differences in the game. we talked through how all of that plays and how it leads into periodization, because we know some of the stuff I've been looking at we could do in the summer. Speaker 1: I'd love to hear that. Outside perspective. Speaker 3: Wasn't that horrible actually. Speaker 2: Yes. Love your feedback because we've been together for four months working now and we started seeing you in December. Jurassic swing changes I think. Speaker 1: trying to get way more width and give you a little more rhythm and sequence. Speaker 2: So in four months, would you rate my progression towards where we know I want to go? Speaker 1: Well, I think the diagnosis was the same, what we did this most recent session was a different approach, which was more focused on you self organizing within the task at hand. And that was a focus of, let's put some constraints in there. Obviously, you know what you want to accomplish. You're like, yeah, I get really risty and fast and you know, I'm cool with it. I can play golf because I don't have to think about it. If I'm thinking about my wrists. chaos, right? Nobody wants to think about their wrists or their arms. Like I remember when I first tried to kind of like just mess around with getting it across the line and picking my arms up and moving things over here to just try a different pattern. I was like, that is outrageous. I feel like I'm playing golf left-handed. So it's like, all right, well, rather than doing that, let's focus on moving this heavier implement. This is the direction we want to move it. This is some of the ref, these are the reference points for you when it comes to getting the energy through this heavier tool and then getting to a better finish position. So way more focused on what am I doing over here past the golf ball? And as a result, your body was like, cool, I'm not going to do anything over here. That's going to compromise my intention over here. I'm going to make it as simple as I can to get to that end position. And you didn't have to think about that. You didn't have to try to control that. It just happens through repetitions. Also through some of the initial drills, like, okay, those weren't great, but if I shut up and let you just go through them again, every rep gets a little better. And that's really cool. That's when it's hard for me because I'm like excited and like, yeah, go. I'm just like, all right, just let him do his thing. Sit back and let him go through that process. And then at the right time, hey, take a break. All right. What are you feeling? What are you doing? What was different? What was your intention through that exercise and how are you accomplishing it? Or what got better from that first set to the second set? And that's really, really key because then it's like you're teaching yourself. Speaker 2: think that's really important because you're not going to be there every time they go to practice. Speaker 1: so far. Speaker 2: In developing that type of process, we're like, okay, I have to self-organize. Like for one, it gives them like agency, gives them autonomy, gives them responsibility. Because I think a lot of people that take lessons have a perception of like, I'm gonna go take a golf lesson, and I'm immediately gonna get better. Right, like obviously repetition and practice is not to be understated, but the work doesn't occur during the lesson, right? The information and the knowledge and the feels and the tools and the drills occur during the lesson. Understanding the education. But if you don't have a framework for that, to go out and apply that on your own, you don't have a coach right there becomes incrementally more difficult. think. Well, and I think one thing that I really like that you specifically do bet, I don't know obviously if you do, because I have it all listed with you and God knows how long. Three years. Three years. Plus minus 12. Bet makes me do the recap. Speaker 3: 32 days Speaker 2: He'll ask me, what did do today? recap? I actually like that because exactly what you said gives me agency over I don't just come to a lesson and do what I'm told. I'm trying to internalize it and put it in my own words. I can then remember. here at four o'clock in the morning hitting balls and practicing. So I've really enjoyed that part of it because it does help me drive it in. Speaker 3: Yeah, you're I mean, you're right. Like everything you guys said, because it's like even talking to some of those players, even just taking some of tips that you've given me and just watching them looking for different nuances. They like when I say like easy, their grip is like way underneath, like, no, let's bring that back. They think it's going to be a fix all right there. And then I see him three days later when we're back on the range. Like, what are you doing? Like I like your why you. Did you practice? Like, no. Like, again, they want that immediate fix. And when you fix it or adjust it, then they hit it bad or they're trying to learn to adjust to it. And then all of sudden it's like, they go back to their old ways. Again, they need to understand that process to put the work in outside of the coaching and the tips, whatever it is, the drills, and then hammer it, hammer it after. Speaker 2: They're home. Speaker 3: and that's what they don't do. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough. So I want to I want to get into the constraints legs. want to ask constant questions. But prior to because I think it's always good to realize that it's kind of like when you start losing weight, they say you're the last person to really know to sit. But it's the people that don't see you for a lot. Don't know if it's first. So you and I have not played together in a while since I think the ugly sweater. Gosh, I know we did one round, but I wasn't really playing because we did. was your scratch on the back. Speaker 3: Yes, you were really playing, but the true round was the ugly sweater round. Speaker 2: So this is the first time, so I guess what is your input on watching whether it my pre-shot routine or some of the how I was swinging that's different from the past? Speaker 3: Well, I know when you were doing this ugly sweater, your mindset was all about the pre-shot routine. And then the scramble, I didn't hear you talk about the pre-shot routine. I don't know what you, you may have just internalized it more and so it became more habit. But one of the things I know that definitely was different is like your finishes, like your striking, your lines were better with your irons, your wedges, because I kind of like what you were talking about. It's like, what happened at over here, not happened over here where the started, but what was your finish over here. And it definitely had a much cleaner end and cleaner finish when it obviously hit the green or even just your follow through just like bounce. Like everything just looked on that side of it. So, I mean, there's definitely a different process that was coming through. I know we joke about it, but I mean, obviously a lot of your shots were still much more controlled. Speaker 2: short. Speaker 3: than the last time I saw you. And that's, again, it's all progress and things just building into it. Speaker 2: So what I did then was my pre-shot routine. No, we said do those three kind of Shuffler shuffle with the high. My pre-shot routine, do three of those controlling that low point high finish, right. Speaker 1: some rehearsals Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, even when you're finished even when you're alone you were you were up here. Yeah Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot more controlled. did one we placed should have placed third place. Speaker 3: You know, we should have been more serious because we actually probably could have walked away with something. Speaker 2: We were tied for third and we lost on a scorecard. And no mulligans in this one. So like this is actually probably the truest scramble you'll get. Like there's no purchase mulligans. The winner was 11 under. ⁓ And we were at six. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 3: Seven. We finished at seven. Bridges. Speaker 1: What course? French Bag. Speaker 2: So it did pretty good, but my highlight was I got close to the 10. To I think five and a half feet on a hundred and thirty yards, hundred forty yards. Down pitching wedge. So swing and it didn't leave the line like it it was a dead straight ball that just hit and landed and stayed there. Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it was... Yeah. Speaker 1: So you had your good Scotty Scheffler rehearsals slash practice swings. Then you got into your visualization from there and then you stepped in and you sent it. And it felt good, it felt like you were able to transfer those feels into the execution of the track. Speaker 2: Bulls, but yes, I, um, I've been, the first couple irons, I've been them a little bit, but then once I kinda got composure, my irons were the best part of my game. was pretty green. Speaker 3: Yeah, your irons were definitely on point. They got us all on, I think, all the gurrs that we had the possibility to get. Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the driver that was a little wonky still. Started off great, and then I started hitting 30, 40, 50 yard fades. So it became a little uncontrollable at one point, so I switched my mid-driver. We got some stuff to work on. Speaker 1: Go back. Yeah Speaker 3: There's a few links there. Speaker 1: Yes, more work to be done. Speaker 2: More work to be done. But I want to get into the constraints. Because Colin and were talking before this podcast, before Jason got here. He said that he felt like his coaching is leveled up. And a lot of it was because of the constraints. So I would love to get your input as to why it was because the constraints maybe talked about what the constraints is. But kind of just talk through your progression as a golf coach and how that's helped you. That could be pretty long-winded, so I'll make it little bit more concise and on the point. for it. Helping people first and foremost learn how to move better. How do you move your body better? The way I like to frame it to a lot of my students, especially because it's great if you're using heavier tools and heavier implements to teach your body how to move better. But you put a golf ball in front of somebody and you put the golf club back in their hands and it goes close to default pattern. because their intention becomes to hit the golf ball, right? Not to move officially. So if you can create a feel or you can create some awareness, like, okay, how do I move officially? Your job as a golfer is to move the tool. That's what's within your control. You're moving the club. Club contacts the ball, you're not hitting the ball from the head. So if you can own the process and the feels and know how your body should be moving in most efficient way possible, the ball just gets in the way. All right, now it's time to go. simplified way to like kind of look at it but like at the end of the day that's really what's happening. So with the heavier implements in general, the way that I kind of like to frame it for a lot of people is like if I give you like a two pound dumbbell until you just like lift it above your head you can do that in a lot of different ways. Right? I can go this way, I can go above, I can go behind, it's two pounds, it's not a lot. Right? If I give you a 50 pound, how are you going get 50 pounds up there? You're going to find the most efficient way possible. because otherwise you can't get it up there. So it's the same thing when you use heavier tools. How do you manage the force? How do you manage momentum of a golf club when you're swinging 70, 80, 90 plus miles an hour? If we do that with a heavier tool that maybe isn't moving as fast but still has the same amount of force because it is heavier, it your body how to move a little bit better. Now it's not like you can just give you this and say swing this and you'll get better because there's ways that you can do it incorrectly and that's where the constraints kind of come in. So how do y'all as coaches then assess who's going to learn better with, I'm going say, the analytical video angles, who's going to do better with the constraints? Everybody's going to do better with the constraints. It's a kinesthetic move that you go to, then. You always start kind of with the constraints and see what clicks. Context and education and specificity and details matter. It's not the same for everybody, right? understanding like okay like this is why we're doing this this is what you currently do this is what we expect to see in your current ball fight if we do this and this and this with some constraints in place this would be the expectation short-term long-term right but it's a physical movement right so like at the end of day you can be as analytical as you want to be but if you don't work out a move better Speaker 1: So it's interesting, like everybody motor learns similarly. And so even if they are more analytical, it's great. Like I love the folks who really want to know and understand because there's some ownership over the concepts. And, you know, I think there's some law in golf, which I wish I knew back in the day, but it's like there's some basic physics and basic geometry that's just built in. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So like Hogan's famous book, the five modern fundamentals of golf, you've got the pane of glass going through his shoulders, right? Which is just built on the swing plane. So that shafts built at whatever 55 to 60 degrees. So that pane of glass goes up and then it goes down and out and it goes back up and then you can think of the roof of the house. the motor system prefers directional outcomes, not so much controlled movements. So if I know like, hey, Bryson, right, he's swinging on the circle, he's swinging on the swing plane, right, he's just tracing that arc and their symmetry on both sides. you know, the prettiest golf swings for most folks is like Adam Scott. Like, wow, that's just like, there's perfect symmetry in every sense of the word. It's like that can't break down. Speaker 3: ⁓ yeah. Speaker 1: Sure it can. You can have a pretty swing and not play good golf. That's a whole nother topic. But for the majority of our golfers, it's like, yeah, you want me to look a little more like Adam Scott? Sign me up. Right? And it's not anything too crazy. Like if you can throw a med ball decently, like you can move a golf club in a similar fashion. But it's so easy to just go down the YouTube route or have a million different golf lessons or just a few that don't provide you with the right direction. And you're thinking about stuff that's taking away from our actual capacity to learn and evolve. So it's like, it all comes back to motor learning. How do we learn best? Well, I need to learn through these movements, through these constraints, through these patterns. I need the video as proof, not so much analysis and critiquing, but more so, ⁓ wow, when I'm moving, when I'm swinging two clubs instead of one, my swing starts to organize itself. That's encouraging. And then you've always heard folks who are like, ⁓ yeah, I make great practice swings and I step up over the ball and it's terrible. Well, it's not like they're that far away, but they're aren't bridging the gap. So that's the next piece. Like your practice swings being good and fluid and continuous, that's, that's positive. Now let's transfer that to one step closer to hitting a golf ball. Speaker 2: anything helps transfer that gap. This is kind of what getting at earlier, where it's like, okay, if your intention is like, okay, I have to get the club here and here, I have to keep my arms attached, whatever it might be, with a heavier tool, and you give them their club and you put a golf ball in front of them, I feel like a lot of times, often subconsciously, it becomes like golf ball. Speaker 1: ⁓ big time. Big time. Speaker 2: Alright, so I think learning how to reframe that in process of like, this is why think finishing tension is important. He frames it this way frequently, it's it's GPS for your golf swing. Right, because if I want to get over here, there's only one way to get there efficiently. Right, and then a lot of times it'll organize stuff in the backswing too, because if I have center mass of the club going in a certain direction here, I can't get there. So as long as you know what your checkpoints are at the finish, and it's specific and it's intentional. I have a couple of students, like one in particular who's on our members side. Almost every lesson, she'll hit one that, what did do there? How was your finish? It was shit. Okay. Can you make it not shit? Yeah. Next one? Good. Almost on a 90 % basis. I mean, that's exactly what Ben and I worked on was because for the past few lessons we've been focusing on getting that width in the backswing and not being so hinged in my right arm, right? I would come here and I think it was with you one time we came and I was just shanking balls left and right. So I get all these tears. But then we came and Speaker 3: Yeah dude, yeah, remember that, You're worried about this. Speaker 2: Did all this, okay. Forget all this. If you look at John Daly back here, whatever, right? Let's focus over here and see what happens. Everything back here will kind of sort itself out, so it kind of goes to exactly what it's supposed to I wouldn't say that it completely absolves itself, because he and I were talking about my swing the other day, working on similar stuff, very different flavor. and I do this, this goes too far around behind me, right, which makes it really hard to get here. does. Right, so if I don't have some, some of an intention to change my loading pattern, it's hard to make the unloading pattern completely flat. Right, now I don't think that needs to be like the emphasis. If I had to pick one or the other, I'd rather focus out here than back here. Correct, I think that's where we are right now is. Let's focus on this side of it and we'll see where this falls and if anything needs to change from there. Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny you made a good point about like we just got done with our district tournaments and to watch some of these guys, it's just eight, nine, 10 practice swings. Looked good. Set the ball. Not a good outcome. Couple holes later, watch him want to just because he feels like he's being rushed. Looks good. It's perfect because it's like, yeah, you're not thinking about it. You're just go with the flow and that gap, whatever the bridging. There's something with not going fast, but. If you sit there and take being efficient, taking 10 practice wings, you're feeling for that perfect swing. And then it doesn't come out. The outcome doesn't happen. So it's interesting you mentioned that because I've watched it for two days develop. And it's so true on every spectrum, the top guys to the bottom guys. Speaker 2: That's the hard part is, you with other sports, you're in a position where you don't have time to like think and react. You just have to react. Every other sport is much more fast paced. With golf, you have a static object just like sitting there waiting for you. So like, how do you put your brain in a position where it's like, I'm going to react to this object. Currently, if I'm wrong, I'm sure it was like Hogan that remember that like 50s golf video that I sent you like probably a year ago at this point. was talking about the swing starting well before. you get into your dress position. It starts before you get into your setup. Right? Because there's a whole rhythm and flow and like... Reaction element, right? That's way I think about it, but I mean even the one that I say he was from like the 50s or 60s. This is where like the waggles were, you know, the that you should do. And it still probably is a thing. I see a lot of students there, and I used to do this myself, I'm sure you remember this when I to Scottsdale the first time. Speaker 1: Yeah, think box, play box. Speaker 3: thing. Speaker 2: Right, because both you and Sam said the same thing to like why do you look like a robot that's set up? Because I was just like stacked. I was just like still. There's no athleticism in that. Right, there's no dynamicism in I want to touch on that, but I'm ask question first because when I touch on it, I'm going lead you to what I'm asking. You mentioned Adam Scott. Everyone says, oh he's got a great swing. If we take away anyone over the age of 35, would say glory at the old end of this question at 36. Who would you say has the most textbook swing on tour now? Speaker 1: Well, mean, the category in textbook is like how well do they strike it? You know, like how consistent is low point? Speaker 2: aesthetically test textbook that people say I want to come in and I want his swimming. Speaker 1: I mean, a model, if you will, just a neutral model. I think that's how I would frame it. What's the most neutral model? You know, it's funny, it's just endless with nuance and style and pattern. You can pattern just about anything if you own that pattern. Phil Mickelson, for example, you they used to joke like he's got big cojones because he doesn't care. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 1: And there's something to be said about that. Going back to the Olympics most recently, all these studies come out. like, what separates the gold medalist versus everybody else? Because they're all freaks. They're all dedicated. They're all periodized and performing at their highest level at that stage. It's the ability to control your attention and get into this automaticity, where I just own what I do. I just trust it. go and I let it go. under the most tense moments. Easy to do after like two fireballs and a hot dog maybe. And then you lose it, you know, it lasts for like two holes. Same to your guys like, oh, they're taking eight practice swings and then they suck and then I took two practice swings and they're good. Well, how sustainable is it? To me, that's just inconsistent, right? Like if they're making several rehearsals beforehand, like Spieth is like a rehearsal king. He's like, he brushes low point like 20 times sometimes and he's back and he's into it and he's going and he's like hitting an amazing shot because he's in his creative state. Nice, you know, Jack would sometimes waggle over the ball for a long time, but it was Jack. So what are you going to say? And then you got Scott Fossett talking about Tiger 14 seconds. He was a machine. He was a robot. He was a robot in the sense of as soon as he started walking in and he set the club and he went through his process and he had a look at the target and he went, was 14 seconds. Speaker 2: So would you say that both of those are like, obviously they're both viable, right? But I think a lot of that, ⁓ like there's golf personality type. Speaker 1: Well, there are shots too, right? There are certain shots that I stand over. like, wow, there's a lot going on here. The wind, the water, you know, the carry distance, the lie, the situation versus a shot where it's like, cool, it's the first hole at St. Andrews and you've got a 300 yard fairway and it's downwind. Speaker 2: Looking at the eight traits of champion golfers, you're going to have strengths and weaknesses in each. Some people might feel, if you look at it from a Scott Kauck standpoint, are you a ball striker or you a shot maker? Some people, I think, probably benefit from being a little bit more free-flowing rather than structured. In Tiger's instance, look at his upbringing. He was trained from the get-go to be a machine. Speaker 1: I agree. And to each their own, right? That's why I don't use a line when I'm putting. I'm in my corridor. My shift, right? I may play it higher or lower. You know, as I work my way into the ball, I'm not saying I have to hit it on that spot and that's it. There's your aim point 101. Well, you know, I think if you use aim point as a tool, you know the best putters still have this artistry and this sort of jazz and this free flow if you will. All that as a tangent from best looking golf swing. ⁓ I don't know man. I mean everybody loves Fleetwood's move. It's phenomenal. Speaker 2: that was not necessarily what I had in mind. Speaker 1: A lot of people like Ludwig's movies. Speaker 3: He's got a smooth very smooth more collar Speaker 1: Angel Ayora I think is DP World Tour Spanish guy that has this textbook looking golf swing, it's really nice. That's your Fred Couples, if you're into that. Speaker 2: Jake Knapp from Winton. Yeah, well you said who I was leaning towards because it bleeds back to the waggle part and just like the quickness. When I think about textbook swing, it's Ludwig's and he's quick, he pulls that trigger fast. He stands over the ball, he raises the glove and he goes. I try my best to be like that because I've tried the waggles and I've tried... Well, otherwise I just in front of the ball. I really find it right? Because like, you're trying to do that, you might put yourself in a position where you're like unintentionally and maybe unconsciously rushing yourself. Because you're trying to be like efficient and quick, right? that- Yeah, you could- it could not be- it could not be congruent. Like everybody's got a different- Speaker 1: Patrick Cantlay and you Speaker 2: You know a lot against that Oh Speaker 1: ⁓ yeah, sure, but what a beast. I'll take him on my Ryder Cup team any day. Speaker 2: He's an amazing player and I will never take away but I can't stand to watch the guy. Speaker 1: He's our Ian Poulter. Speaker 2: It takes way too long. It's him or Brian Harmon. against them as... I have nothing against their golf game and their... I cannot watch them because it like... I sit there and I'm like, I'm getting anxious and I'm not the one in the... Speaker 1: Okay Speaker 3: What Kevin, no. Speaker 1: That's so interesting. So that part of like how we close the loop, it's so interesting. It's like, okay, I've got all these pieces and the majority of our success stories on the front end are getting people to move better, getting people to not do things that are compromising their normal range of motion and putting them into positions that are inefficient when it comes to hitting a golf ball and more importantly inefficient in how you move your body. And so I think one of the fun things that we've had so much success with and, know, kind of, you know, building off of Colin's like emergence as I'm the best coach now that I've ever been, which, you know, we should be our best version today, but it's like, you have these big jumps or levels that you kind of clear and getting people to sequence properly and sort of getting that almost for free. is such a game changer and sequence being the kinematic sequence will describe it as you if you've got all these chain links if I'm throwing a ball and I'm delivering a punch I'm swinging a bat or a club or whatever I'm walking I'm going to lead with the foot the foot's going to lead the way so I'm transferring that pressure and energy into the foot downhill forward into the lead side we're front wheel drive and golf So my foot pulls my ankle, my ankle pulls my knee, my knee pulls my pelvis. Each chain link has no slack. My pelvis pulls my torso, which pulls my arms, hands, club. So if there's no slack in the system and the first chain link pulls all the others, my hands come in with a free ride. So now I can be soft and I can have, you know, I can hit flop shots. I can have finesse. I can be really soft with the hands. or I can pour on some speed and throw a fastball. So I can do whatever I want when I'm in sequence. I have timing, have rhythm, I have an efficient movement pattern that allows me to most efficiently transfer this energy. And when I'm throwing a ball, I'm not thinking about my loading phase. I'm bounding forward and I'm looking at my target and I'm sending it. I'm not thinking about how I crank my arm. attract it and externally rotate it and get this thing to lay back, extend the wrist and pronate that shit. Probably not thinking about all that if I'm Bo Jackson trying to throw somebody out at home or each row. Speaker 2: I think that's where, you know, two different points on that. For one, tiger hitting 7-9 is a 50 yard target. Right? If you can do this slow, you can sequence slowly, you can... you're in a better position to sequence at higher speeds. And then if we're using the chain link analogy, right, I think it's also understanding that things have to accelerate and decelerate at a certain time. I often use like the towel pop analogy. I'm gonna pop somebody with a towel, if my hand keeps moving towards you, there's no transfer of force or energy out to the end of the towel, right? You're not gonna get popped. So at a certain point, my hand has to stop so that I can let this go forward. It's like an oversimplified version because you're using what, three joints when you do that if you're to pop somebody with a towel? You have way more to account for in the golf swing, which is what makes golf challenging, but if you can just feel how to do that with heavier objects and constraints in place, then it starts to get easier and you don't have to think about it so Speaker 1: Well you got step drills, got Gary Player walking it through. ⁓ Every player on tour can walk it through. They can hit a hard shot off of the downhill line, chase it through. They're good at that. ⁓ So getting that almost, I wouldn't say for free, but really really quickly. And it's funny because you know get somebody to throw a ball it's way easier than swing a club. But when they can feel that rhythm and that harmony with a golf club it's like ⁓ okay cool like that resonates like that clicks I can do that. That's something I'm actually good at other things. I just don't do it in golf because that ball's not moving and oftentimes we'll put it back in our stance. because we want to lean the handle and hit down on it. And then I have to sway to get behind it. And then I'm at a sequence. then I get this feedback from a lot of players like, yeah, I feel like my hands have to take over. My hands get quicker. My hands rush. Well, whenever that's happening, it's because they weren't in sequence. And so it's like, OK, let's find the core issue. I was at a rhythm. I didn't get into my lead side. And therefore, I wasn't in sequence. And therefore, like all these other issues manifested but you know it was a mental error because I got quick and I all position was off and whatever or for a lot of folks like they just freeze over the golf ball and they start thinking about how to move their wrists and how to you know control their movements and if I'm controlling my movements and I'm holding the club with my hands my hands generally want to take over because the club is really light And so I'll use the cue often times, like treat the club like that rope, treat the club like it's two or three or four clubs, or treat it like it's a 50 pound Indian club or kettlebell. If that club is heavy to you, you'll move it differently. It's why junior golfers pick the club up and they open up their body and they lay it down and they flip it because they're not strong enough to move a heavy club. But then you have, you know, a 40 year old adult. He's like this guy and I was bench pressing a bunch. He probably doesn't do a lot of thoracic extension mobility exercise and he's never picked up a golf club. He's like, really good. I can kick a ball, can throw a ball, can swing it back, but you give me a club. You can't hit it. And I'm laying the saw and I'm slicing it and it goes nowhere. I'm swinging really hard, but it's you know, spinning at 8K and coming back at me. Meanwhile, this little kid has better form just because he's not strong enough. So he treats the club like that heavier dumbbell. Speaker 2: playing a tooth picker. Speaker 1: And you know, at the end of the day, it's like if we can just help each individual understand this is how you motor learn best. So, you know, we start with priming the nervous system. It's like, whoa, in golf, you don't hear this, but in Olympic lifting, it's like normal. I need to prime the nervous system before I step in, I move heavy weight. I need to protect the joints, protect the body. I need to make sure that I've got these big muscles ready to rock so I can move this heavy object. So they prime the nervous system we should too, right? And lot of tour players do, but amateurs don't. It's so easy to do. Speaker 2: different than warming up, right? Because warming up is blood flow to your muscles. Priming your nervous system is in conjunction but a little different, Speaker 1: So you can use, if you've got a Farragun, right, it's not a massage gun, it's really actually an activation tool. And so you can go over every muscle group and, you know, out on a scale of three, you one to 10, you're pressing at a two or a three or a four. And, you know, you are kind of waking these muscle origin points up. You're waking up the nervous system and then you can do some really simple activations. using a wall, using the golf cart, a curb, a tire, right? can push really hard into an object. Marines use this all the time. I can push hard into a wall and stabilize and activate and kind of prime the system to say, okay, cool. I need these muscle groups when I'm swinging a golf club. Min-Woo Lee talks about I swing with my core. So if I'm activating my core through I've got two or three clubs and I'm moving it back and forth relatively quickly. I'm stabilizing through the feet. I'm not twisting around. I'm moving these two or three clubs in a pretty smooth circle with the arms staying pretty passive and connected to my torso. All of a sudden we're sequencing, we're activating, we're improving our movement patterns, we're improving the way we move this club in space. and we're priming the system and so we can activate, we can then go through some basic drills, glide and rise. Was your deal is kind of the, you know, walking forward with the rope, you got the Scheffler, then you did it with two clubs, then you did it with one club. You're like, wow, now my legs know exactly what to do. Your ground force experts would be thrilled. Yeah, dude, you create more sheer and more verticals at the right time. Awesome, I love that, right? that wasn't the conversation it was more direct the energy this way and move it as efficiently as you can hey the ground reaction force is kicked in awesome but more importantly for us it's like the joints moved better yeah and they all contributed and the reaction forces were more of a secondary element Speaker 3: be going with this. Speaker 2: gonna say what was the first thing I did on the range both of us Speaker 3: Both of us and I can attest to this even a few times I got out and just played the practice on in my tournament like literally I I probably hit 30 balls total Most time I was was literally taking like two or three wedges Just getting the tickets in the same thing both of us at the scramble. We did like maybe ten balls and My swing felt fine. Like I'm less worried about yeah, like the kids today like go in the range and hitting 40 balls It's like no I'm more about getting the muscles getting that rhythm getting that beat Speaker 1: Find home base. Exactly. You need a home base. Speaker 2: I did that for about 10 minutes. Swinging three clubs, kind doing the glide. Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so good. Good, I love that. Speaker 3: I can almost get too far on the rim. Speaker 2: ⁓ On average, many balls do you guys hit free play? Speaker 3: Now, shoot, like less than 20. Speaker 2: I'm in a recreation. Speaker 3: I'm right now like less about less than 20 as far as actually swinging chipping and putting Speaker 2: So Jason and I go out and play, I'm hitting no more than 10. If you and I play and we got a little money on it, somewhere between 50 to 30. Tournament, I'm probably hitting closer to 50, 60. Between putts, chips, and range. Yeah, putts, chips, outstanding. I'm gonna say around 45-ish in a tournament, 45 to 50, because I work my way up between wedges all the way to driver. Speaker 1: don't have any solid data for you. Speaker 2: If we were to go play golf right now, we'd show up 35 minutes before T-Sign. I'm probably somewhere around like 20 to 30. Speaker 1: really don't have an answer for you. Honestly, like in the perfect world scenario, I'm getting to the core 75 minutes ahead of time. I might start out with 10 minutes of putting calibration, a general sense of speed, see the ball go in the hole. I would go chip, pitch, a couple of bunker shots for 10, 15, 20 minutes. And then I'd go to the range and I might spend 20 minutes or so just kind of working through the bag, climbing the ladder, going through my routine every few swings. The first 15, I mean, if I have the opportunity to go chip and pitch first, that segues into the range session pretty nicely. And then, you know, I would go through that routine 10, 15 times, hopefully on the range. And then I would go back and hit a few putts. Another 10 minutes of putting. would go to the first tee and then I'd send it. ⁓ that's ideal. Realistically, I'm getting out there and it's like, okay, let's try to calibrate, you know, I'll pistol grip. I'll try to get some stuff activated. I will attempt to climb the ladder, do some, you know, basically, you know, half swings. Speaker 2: Okay, shark slamming. Speaker 3: 11 shoes are barely Speaker 1: and then three to nine swings, find a rhythm, get things lined up, square the face up, get things lined up and hopefully squared up. And then, like if I can pour on a little speed towards the end of the session, that's awesome for me right now realistically as a 40 year old dad to kids. Speaker 2: So I think doing the putting and chipping first, this is actually something that I remember talking to Alice about probably three years ago. was like her warm-up routine. And that was something I don't know if you told her that or I learned her, like she learned that elsewhere and I learned that from her, but doing that first. Because a lot of people want to go to the range and then they go spend 10, 20, 30 minutes chipping and putting. And then you have to go make a more aggressive movement on the first heat. Like why would you not like, it's similar, it's priming your nervous system, right? Why would I not take like one of the more recent things that I do, swinging close to full speed and not full, and take that to the first tee, right? And to your point too, blending the movements, if you can make knee to knee, waist to waist, rib cage to rib cage, when you're doing chipping and pitching, you take that as your warmup swings into the range. If you can strike a hole from there, or a little speed, maybe swing a little longer. It generally promotes better contact, better control from the shaders. I do like that you went there because I was thinking a similar theme when we were talking about how everyone kind of learns different or plays different or warms up different even from that perspective. I'll never say golf is the hardest sport because I think it's controversial. Speaker 1: Yeah. you Speaker 2: But I think golf is the most fascinating and nuanced sport out there because most other sports, know, hockey, they have different shaft flexes and their sticks, but for the most part, all have the same curve, right? No. Similar? No. Speaker 3: That you're way off. Speaker 2: Take that one off. They're playing on the same ring size. But nobody talks the same size. Even like baseball, you have a few bat shapes. You have different lengths, different ounces, but a few bat shapes. mean, most boards are pretty uniform in what you do. Golf, you have hundreds of shafts, you hundreds of lofts and lines of thousands. of ways to fit someone, even their grip size. It is so nuanced. And then when you get into how do you warm up? I personally fall into the same thing that you were just talking about. I actually like to chip first because I can work on the tempo, getting really wide, taking big swings, almost that flop-shop feel. And that helps me go to the range and hit a little bit better tempo, a little bit wider feel. Whereas some people... might want to put first. Some people want to start hitting a driver first because they feel like if I can hit a driver first, everything else is in control. This is something that I've been doing for about six months and it's held under the same like guidance of tighter hitting seven irons to 50 yards. Right? It's the longest club you have. Right? It's going to be the longest your body is willing to move. It's going to be the longest hand path. So I'll hit five drivers before I start hitting anything else. And like, I just want to feel a sequence and a rhythm. I want to feel like my body lengthen a little bit on both sides of the swing. And generally it's pretty lazy and unintentional. I just want to feel long and fluid and try to sequence it correctly and make good contact. And then I'll go to the ledge. If I go do that, my whole round is terrible. Interesting. I don't have the same body control that you have. body awareness over a driver so you put a driver on my hands and I say oh I want to this at 50 miles an hour I think that's probably doing a lot wrong. There are you have for you doing maybe practice. Oh for practice yes Ben and I talked about that doing half sleeve drivers. Hit a driver to a 100 yard target with 1.5 smash. Yeah sure we've talked about I agree to practice but for warm up if you tell me to go do that in a warm up my round is gone. Speaker 1: police. Speaker 2: But that's my point is golf is so nuanced that it is a fascinating sport for anyone to get into and master because there are so many ways to get to the end result. Like we talk about, a blue biggie goes the complete opposite end of the spectrum and talk about it. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: maybe wasn't built from longevity on tour, but he played really well for a handful of years there. I think that, you know, reinforces the importance of like from a coaching standpoint, like genuinely getting to know your player. I'm going to say genuinely, like there's, might ask them questions that they give you an answer on the front end that, you know, sometimes it's just the answer they think you want to hear. And then you dig a little deeper and you keep digging and you keep digging and all of sudden you get to this like, uh, is called like a stress fracture in terms of like how they're thinking about things. You're like, oh shit, that's been your perception of this the whole time. Okay, let's like recalibrate here. Understanding how they think and how they operate and how they practice, like generally, like one of the more difficult things I think about coaching is you have to reframe and... Perhaps you can use different verbiage and how you talk to them even to help them understand and internalize the concepts that you're trying to talk about. Because everybody's different. There's certain things like bit of a sample from moral learning standpoint. A lot of people, most everybody has a similar process from a moral learning standpoint. It's not going to be always the exact same and there's going to be lots of details involved as part of that. how they receive and interpret the information in the context and the education around what you're doing from a constraints perspective is going to be a little bit different for everybody. I can have two players with like similar patterns and we go through the same constraints-led approach and I cue it the same way and I'm not going to get the same result. Well, different body types, right? Different ranges of motion, different ways that they're thinking about things. So how do I modify that in a way that they're going to be able to? Speaker 3: Hmm? Speaker 2: or clock right around an hour, so if you want to get into the periodization side. And because I know Colin always says it depends on what we make it theoretical, so we're put this in a real-world application. We know we're going to talk about what I want to do this summer, right? And Ben and I talked about this in my lesson of the three things that I've targeted for the Texas AM, the Texas Mid-AM, and the US Mid-AM qualifier. Speaker 3: It depends. Speaker 2: They're decently far apart in qualifiers, so let's talk about periodization, because Colin and I talked a little bit about this prior to the podcast as well, so I know he has an opinion. So we put in a real world application of, we know Alex is getting, we know where Alex is right now as far as swing. How would you, or how would you suggest periodizing me for these tournaments? Is there one that maybe just doesn't? need to happen because it doesn't make sense and doesn't fit in the sequence. How would you go about it? Let's talk about a little bit that we didn't really get. Speaker 1: So, been toying around with, like, how do we condense a lot of this stuff? Because there's so many pillars, there's so many topics to cover when it comes to overall golf performance. ⁓ Starting with moving better, and then, you know, acquiring skill, transferring that to performance under pressure. There's the mental game, there's how to practice, there's the equipment optimization side of things, knowing how far your club's go, and then adjusting to course strategy based on the conditions and the course you're playing. So you got all these different segments, and then you can break those down within subsets. So there's a lot. Golf's hard. You don't just take a couple lessons and get immediately better or reach your goals. Maybe you can move the needle, but it's never ending. There's always better. That's what fascinates us, I think, with the game. It's like, I'm trying to figure out my best process and ever learning no matter what. Every miss is an opportunity to just learn and get better. So move better first, which we're doing. Train the brain and then play the game. So train the brain means, okay, I need to manage my emotions. I need to manage my pre-shot, my post-shot, my feedback loop, my setup process, my expectations, my mental game. ⁓ you know, how to set yourself up for success. So if you talk about moving better, motor learning, neural mapping, getting our body to just maintain these intentions consistently, that's a good start. You hear inconsistency as one of the big complaints of a lot of people, probably 90 plus percent. That was my chief complaint when I was 16. I was like, I'm inconsistent. And I was, I could score low and then I'd be like, why did I just shoot 12 shots higher the next day? And so, I mean, when it comes to training the brain, it's like, I have to have this think box, play box scenario going. I need a strategy to make sure I'm not just over analyzing all the variables. I also need to make sure coach, that I'm paying attention to the wind and the pin position front and back and side to side, you know, where the trouble is and where the trouble isn't. I do need to also assess variables. Like that's a skill in and of itself. Um, and I need to take that into committing to a shot, rehearsing, feeling, going through this blueprint of mind's eye on the target, quiet eye on the ball, trust it, send it, no expectations. I'm either performing or learning. So if I perform great, if I didn't, it's an opportunity to learn. I have to go through a feedback loop. I need to learn from those misses. It's very important, especially during the round. And then I can identify it, correct the error, validate what was good, correct what went wrong. And then I'm excited when I put the club away, I've got another opportunity. My next shot or on the next hold, you know, execute. and perform. And if I don't perform on the next shot, it's another opportunity to learn and get a little better. Necessary building blocks. So I think instilling that today, no matter what, is crucial and that's going to help your periodization process because those are things you can start to apply right Speaker 2: That took me a long time to learn. He knows more than anybody else. Speaker 1: ⁓ yeah, I I think that's not something you just learn in it. It sticks either. It's like I've got to continue to be disciplined and practice that. Speaker 2: hard part is where you get these like rounds or these like ball striking fits where like, is like so like, okay yeah I might miss a few and then you get to like a little, you know, stretch of rounds where you're just like, and you're not hitting clean at all and like yeah you hit the pin when you're like, what the hell is happening? And when it's like, sometimes you don't even have enough awareness to do that. You just default to, Speaker 1: That's a or flight. Yeah, do I change course? Watch a quick YouTube video or do I lean into- Speaker 2: your default, right? Which is just like being frustrated like, okay, like, ⁓ I'm gonna fix this. I'm gonna fix this now instead of like, ⁓ I got messed that one up where you start talking poorly about yourself and you have negative self talk and you start cursing yourself and stuff like this. And then you're like, you're not moving in the right direction. Speaker 1: I used to think I needed to do that to play well. I gotta get to that next level of intensity. And then that's just not sustainable. It might work for a few holes, but it's not really sustainable. Speaker 2: Yeah. both played with each other when I think we were both in one of those fits of, can't figure this out. And it's like, as a friend, you're trying to like, they need some space and you're not gonna say anything. They're to say something and it doesn't really work. Cause they're gonna hear it. Cause like Ben said, it's fight or flight at that point. Like you get in this little tunnel, like I think of it as like, don't know, Carlos brought it to me as golf, but he was saying it at one point. Speaker 1: Bye. Speaker 2: where you feel like yourself sinking a little bit and then you start trying to fight yourself out. What's going to happen? Speaker 1: Well, that's our job, right? Yes. To provide that systematic process to go through so that I can identify what was the error because and that's hard to do. It's really hard. That's why playing lessons are very important. Going on course and just helping them learn in the moment of ball position was too far back because you were on a downhill slope in a bunker to a short sighted pen. You hit a decent shot, but it was a little heavy and it went 30 feet past. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: it forward, open the face more, lean the handle back more, and everything else was great. And it's like, all of a sudden they're like, wow, so close versus like hot man like. Speaker 2: measure this. Speaker 1: I should have hit softer. No, actually you should have opened it up and created more speed. Speaker 2: So I mean this goes to like, I think it's a nice segue into like post shot routine when she talked about visualization. Like if you hit a bad one, go through your routine again, practice swings after you your shot, put it back in your bag, you pull it out again, and that's the last shot for you. Speaker 1: Yeah, correct there. Visualize a better outcome. Speaker 2: A framework for that is important. Like in the way that I kind of like put it for a lot of people is like, if we look at the Vision 54 stuff, right, how's my balance, how's my tempo, how's my tension, right? If you can answer all of those in an affirmative, cool, how's my visualization, how's my commitment to the target? If you can answer both of those in an affirmative, honestly, which I think a lot of people have a hard time being honest with themselves, I did actually visualize that. Maybe they don't know what it means, maybe they haven't found. that particular element of their game yet, that just comes to Ben's point, like, leaving it with repetition and sticking with the process. Okay, third stage, how was my setup, right? Did I have a ball in the correct position? I make a correct target, right? Was my process from a set of perspective going to be correct? A lot of the time, I feel like, through those, like, six questions, one of those is gonna be like a mostly, right, if it's a mostly, then you should probably, like, pause at that point, like, I a little bit about what you did, I learned from what you're Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: I don't know if you've said this already, but a lot of times these mechanical errors start to render themselves when you don't have a process that's fundamentally sound. Because if you change something from one swing to the next, how are you supposed to problem solve? You have way more variables than you have to account for at that point. I changed my grip on this one. I opened the face a little bit or the dress, so I could follow the further back. If you do that from one swing to the next, and you're getting different results, what's your base? Speaker 3: I can speak to that. Like I played my first tournament in a while and I had a strategy, game plan, positioning. First, you know, it's like great first tee shot, second wedge in, left the face open or something. But throughout the whole day, I still, I kept myself grounded. I didn't shoot well, but I definitely kept myself grounded where So if I was like, make sure my grip is always going to be the same that we've talked about, make sure I'm just transferring, getting that shoulder dip. So I've always kept that the same so I can, like you just said, minimize where I'm losing possibly that strokes. Like my setup was fine as far as grip and posture, but then it's like, ball position did get Healy on my face. Like I can, remember late playing back, ⁓ man, I was set up. Ball was like right next to my heel. I'm like, I don't know why I did that, but, and then. kept grinding through grinding through and didn't steer away from it and just you know trickling harsh pars, bogey pars but finished all the way to the end just fighting out to keep that consistency. Speaker 2: Thanks. That's the really, really hard part, right? It's like, how much do I stick to the process and keep doing the same thing versus how do I self-correct and self-organize? This is what I would qualify as self-organization, understanding what your tendencies are, which feedback is helpful for. Even in an indoor environment here, you might have tendencies in an indoor environment that render themselves differently outdoors. I've seen people, even like myself, I can make my swing look really, really good in here. When I'm in the heat at the moment and I have somebody take a swing video outside and looking at it, I'm like, that looks like shit. That's not what I was trying to do. But being able to bridge that gap is a skill. And people are just going to operate differently outside too, right? It's 70 degrees in here, you have a good light every time. What happens when you have a downhill motor shot? I say that is one thing I told Jason prior to us playing in the scramble I said I have not played an outdoor swing since early January I have no clue how I'm gonna handle an uphill, side hill, downhill, wind into my face shot. I just had done that. It's a totally different ball game. can, to your point, you can hit great in perfect conditions. But I don't wear a glove in here. And that was the first time in two months that I've put a glove on. I hit a ball and that's also why I don't worry about going because I didn't worry about going in here and I got used to it. Speaker 1: So what can you transfer from this environment? Scott Fossett talks a lot about block practice, but just setting up, going through routines, visualization, setting up the same way every time. Getting really good at that set up routine is literally block practice that you can be doing now, even at the house, even if you're not hitting a ball, just practicing setting up is a big deal. You know, right now if you're in the periodization model and you're like, alright, I've got two months until my next big event. And then you've got a month after that and then a month after that, for example. So if we go like 52 weeks and look at it and say, alright, you know, these weeks are the most important on the calendar. So everything over here leading up to it in this big chunk of... what I've got 90 days I'm developing. I'm balancing my work life, fatherhood, experience, trying to get practice in when I can and improving things that I can without necessarily being in a facility or hitting golf balls outside. So there are ways to train and improve outside of these environments, right? And so, you know, now you're in this developmental phase of moving better. training these patterns, neurologically repeating these things, right? So your nervous system's getting used to the same exercises, the same drills, the same intent, the same energy, the same constraints. You can do that in the backyard, right? You can go grab three of your clubs and just move them in a half circle and actually improve your timing, your sequence, your arm structure, your ability to move. this object in space repeatedly Ludwig Oberg-like. Speaker 2: You frame it like a periodization of a learning context. A of the people that we coach, I wouldn't, maybe not a decent chunk are folks that have at a minimum nine to five, so working 10 plus hours a day. They have a spouse, have family, they have kids that they have to attend to. Going to the range twice a week for 45 minutes to an hour and half is not a reasonable expectation. They're like, oh, I don't have time to practice. And I'm like, that, I don't believe you. You can afford 10 minutes a day. The frequency of touch points, the repetition from a motor learning standpoint, this is something that Dr. Gray talks about that we're in top side. Optimize movement of both. If you can do it in a more frequent fashion, with specific intention, certain constraints that you're aware and intentional about, 10 minutes a day, you do that six days a week, that's 60 minutes. practice a week and you don't even necessarily have to do a golf ball right now is there something to set White Bees head for still going in golf balls yes you need to understand the turf interaction you need to see the ball fly through the air but you do but reps are perhaps to some extent even like when my son plays baseball more practice there's obviously he's a catcher there's a catcher behind him right like when I'm coaching the catchers One of them, if you're in the back, you're going to the motions too. You're in your stands as well. If the ball gets past the first catcher on when we're doing some drills, you're trying to block that. There's something to be said about mental reps that are just as important as actual reps. So think what you're saying is 100 % correct. Shadowboxing. Yeah, I think there's still a place for... all of the reps. Nothing will replace the real reps, even on course versus in here. You need both. need all three. You need everything. everybody's availability. Yeah, right. It's tougher. Yeah. Everybody's a little bit different. Some reps are better than no reps if you're trying to get better. So if your availability is doing some shadow swings without a club while you're stirring. I had one student tell me he was doing rehearsals in the shower. I've never heard that one before. I would rather you do it there than- I've done that one before. Speaker 3: wet conditions. Speaker 2: space shower to really like if you turn sideways right Speaker 1: I'm doing my activations. Speaker 2: Are you addicted to the activation? Sure. Do you really? Yeah. ⁓ cool. So, right now you're kind of getting some steam room action in the shower and doing activation. Speaker 1: mean yeah, if I'm Justin Rose and I've got a performance van, yeah, we're doing Norwegian sauna, I'm doing some red light therapy and you know, I'm taking ⁓ my vitamin C and my electrolytes and getting my hyperbaric chamber time in. Speaker 3: But I whole reps thing like like you know you my grip like getting it over getting into a better neutral position I mean I could be sitting on the couch and just getting that point of just practicing getting it to there so it becomes less to think about it just be very natural Speaker 1: change Speaker 2: When he messed with my swing, was the Colin pointing like listeners can see. When Colin messed with my grip, two years ago I did exactly that. I put a club right next to me on the couch and every five minutes I would grab it. Speaker 3: This guy Right, just reach. Speaker 2: Because like what I've seen a lot of people do is like they won't think about the grip adjustments until they look at their coach now when they're at the range the next time and they'll do the grip the way they're supposed to be doing it. They'll have like four or five golf balls and they'll know don't like shit. You're like well this isn't working I'm just gonna go with what works. You should do those kind of things when you don't have a golf ball in front Speaker 3: right. I think we talked about it a lot of the training stuff we've done you know the lessons I don't think I hit a ball for you Speaker 2: I think I have a total of like, last lesson. Speaker 3: striking it better. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun when you know we get people moving the heaviest row. It's that immediate feedback and you know what's most gratifying for me as a coach is when they just start doing it on their own and they get addicted to the movement pattern and then they grab a club or two or and they start you know it's like hey these are the big training wheels let's minimize the training wheels until there are none. And that's positive motor learning. Those are good constraints because now the affordances are being developed with success. I'm actually stacking wins. Every good rope swing is another win. And then I can pull those training wheels off a little bit and then test it and see if I can do it in another setting. Similar pattern, same pattern, same intent, same energy, same kinematic sequence. Now can I do it with a different tool? Okay, cool. Can we take all of that away? and do it in this environment. Well, if I go through my rehearsals, neural mapping, I'm feeling, I'm rehearsing, I've got freedom. Cool, I like the feels. I'm repeating the feels and the intent and where the energy's going. Then I can go in parallel to the ball and make three-ish continuous practice swings, brushing the turf in the right spot. That's very important. Because... That same process is what you have to do on the golf course. I'm in the thick rough and that ball's sitting halfway down. I need to establish low point control. So I need to go next to the ball and make some practice swings where I'm recreating the feels of the better movement and take that into low point control and immediate feedback. Where am I brushing the turf relative to this particular lie? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: I'm giving the rough a haircut, but not too thick of a haircut because the ball's sitting halfway down. Or in a scenario when the ball's below my feet or above my feet. Well, now I've got to make those adjustments to this variable Y. Well, the way I do that is to establish those three rehearsals or those three practice swings or brushing the turf in the right spot. And that's where you have to be honest with yourself. Where am I brushing the turf? If I'm typically brushing the turf behind the ball and I see that club landing and interacting with the grass at the ball, that's not far enough forward. I need to get my low point more forward in these practice swings. So how do I do that? Well, I start moving further into my left side. I start sequencing better. Then I've got to keep my arms straight and rise. All these feels of the better movements of the drills, of the repetitions kick back in. You're like, ⁓ this is familiar. So despite having to adjust to this lie, that's three degrees above my feet, I'm able to adjust the club and my setup and still recreate those same movements. Speaker 2: And a lot of times that's somewhat intuitive in athletic. Exactly. like, in system meaning like within the context of this conversation, constraints and intention. Speaker 1: If there's a system in place it... And then the pre-shot routine and the rehearsals and the practice swing and then the setup routine and then the ability to go quiet-eye-mind-eye and execute. That's your system and then feedback closure. Speaker 2: So I guess constraints would be just a part of that from a rehearsal. Yes. Because that's the seed, right? That's kind of like what helps foster at least the mechanical pieces. You still need the process. I guess you can call upon this analytical piece in terms of like, OK, I need to assess my lie. need to assess what I need to adjust here in order to get the ball to move the way that I want it to, the club to move the way that I want Speaker 1: The training element. to solve that problem. Speaker 2: But I mean, I'll do two-way speed exercises with people. We'll do the three continuous practice swings. I'll be like, OK, cool. When you do three in a row where you land it after the golf ball, get to your finish. And they'll do two sets of eight swings where they may be brushed a turf once or twice. keep missing the turf. Okay, figure it out. I won't help them. Like if we get to that point and not like type of golf plus on them, just like, okay, go figure it out. Keep going. Take a little breather, think about it, go through the same drill. Large majority of the time, it gets better when I frame it that way. Because now they have responsibility. And this is something I was talking about earlier. People think you take the golf plus and I'm just being... immediately better, it's like you have to own some of your journey yourself. This is something that I struggled with early from a coaching standpoint. I felt wholly responsible for making sure that they got better. And I am at the end of the day, but I also have to make sure that they feel empowered and confident and self-aware enough to own part of that journey themselves. It's not all on me. I'm gonna treat it as such because it's my job, it's my vocation, and I care if they get better at all. But if you're not doing what you need to be doing, if you're not thinking a little bit, I can't just hold your hand the whole time. So I'm going to give you the information, I'm going give you the cues and the drills and the instruction and the template and the framework to do what you need to do to get better. But you have to own it and you have to apply yourself. You have to have some agency over yourself at the same time. Thank you. Speaker 3: Yeah, ⁓ for sure. Speaker 1: So not to drag this on but the periodization. Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if we ever answered that question. Speaker 1: Well, we're trying to. I'm going to try to just finish that answer for you. So you got to move better first. You have to establish your systems, which you're doing. You rinse and repeat that. And you need to establish this sort of maintenance or your daily vitamins, if you will. What are your calibrations? How do I calibrate? What are my Scotty Scheffler shuffles? All right, what's my, I symmetrically activate, I go through these initial drills. I've got home base, three to nine. can rinse and repeat that. And then as you get closer to that tournament date, let's say you're two to three weeks out, at that stage, you should be introducing more variability in your practice. So that means maybe I'm playing performance center on track man and I've got it set up from 30 to 220 and I've got random shots to random pins. So every single shot is different. So I have to just solve a new problem over and over and over again, which means I'm to go through my rehearsals, a couple of practice swings. I've got to go through a full pre-shot routine. I've got to strategize in terms of where the pin is and what my numbers are and what club I'm selecting. So practicing that super, super crucial as a bridging of the gap from what you're doing in terms of your daily maintenance and your block practice. Block practice important because I just want to rinse and repeat these patterns. I want to be consistent. Then I need to add variability. Then I need to add consequence with performance center. You do have consequences scoring the performance of that shot and strokes game. So that consequence is important. think then playing as much golf as you can. Speaker 2: immediately Speaker 1: Yeah. On the course or something meaningful. So you go from moving better, training the brain and then playing the game in here and then going outside and playing where every shot counts. And you can add constraints to these playing around. So maybe you only have nine holes. Okay. So the first three holes count, count as double. So if I've got nine holes to play. There is a direct correlation on tour with first nine hole performance versus overall outcome. Guys who get off to a good start on the front nine generally have a good outcome after 72 holes and vice versa. There is a direct correlation to that. So if I need to get off to a good start, those first three holes, let's double the score. So go play with Jason and this is great. If I go birdie, birdie, birdie, I'm six under. Speaker 3: you. ⁓ Speaker 1: If I go bogey, bogey, bogey, I'm six over. So double your score for the first three holes and then double your score on the ninth hole. Speaker 2: I like that. Speaker 1: That is a constraint that puts your kids into a different mindset. That first hole freaking matters. I need to make a par. I'm not aggressively attacking pins here because if I short side myself and I make bogey, that's actually a double. ⁓ So just play smart. That's one constraint that you can include in your... transition from block to variability to consequence to playing for meaning and playing with more pressure and stress testing your game before that actual tournament. So how specific can we be? Play for money, play in front of people, play on video, double your score the first three holes in the ninth, play worst ball, right? Or play ⁓ reverse mulligans. So you guys are playing against each other and he's got three reverse mulligans on you. You drop a 25 foot putt and he says do it again. Speaker 2: Colin and I joked about taking our better halves and doing a tee to green as the guys girls putt which would put an obvious constraint on proximity. It put an obvious constraint on making sure you get to the green. We did. We did. And it went as you would expect. Horrible. So we've talked about doing it as well. My team wins that like 10 times out of 10. We'll see. Speaker 3: It does. Well, then we also joked about we play, but the girls caddy and we have to play the club they give us. There's a fucking strain. Speaker 2: Yeah. Doing like three club, five club, stuff like that. It's just good ways to practice and it's skill development if nothing else. Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm already looking forward to next year and throwing a lot more constraints on the guys just to make them think and practice and train differently. Speaker 1: The movement stuff can really improve pretty quickly with some of the Mach 3 tools. Those drills that you can execute that are just universal. a lot of cues that you can use that are also universal. Just building pretty neutral swing planes and things like that. Efficient sequencing and some strength. Speaker 3: Yes, you know, yeah, we definitely need to touch base. I'm sorry. Yeah. Speaker 1: and conditioning, right? What I love about the ropes too are these heavier objects do your heart rate gets up. It's an absolute workout. Speaker 3: It is a workout, but you know it's funny you mentioned it's like I think the guys and we obviously we didn't do great as a team got one guy out but it's I think they're finally understanding what I've watched him play my guys why are you pin seeking you've got to stop pin seeking yeah I go just give me middle of the green and then we'll then you know take Speaker 1: Hey Pin Zone Speaker 3: That was one of our next practice strategies. going to practice pins are pulled. All right, get to the green and finish. Speaker 1: Like yeah. Par streak challenge. So par streak challenge depends on your handicap. This would be great for your kids. Depending on the handicap, they have to make X amount of pars in a row and finish with a birdie to complete the challenge. So for you Alex, what's your rough handicap right now? Speaker 3: ⁓ Speaker 1: whatever you just over So you need to make... So your par streak challenge would be seven holes where you have to be bogey free. can be seven or even. It just has to be bogey free. Okay, so you need to go seven consecutive holes without a bogey or double or triple, right? And then you have to finish with a birdie. So once you get through those seven holes, you've unlocked the opportunity to win the game. But if you get to the eighth hole, you don't make birdie, you make par, your par streak's alive, you're still alive. make bogey start over. So you have to make seven consecutive pars, finish with a birdie to win the game. You got sun up till sundown. Now if you're a 14 handicap, then you know it's like two holes. You make two holes, two pars in a row and finish with a birdie. It's not an easy game, but what you learn It's amazing. So I got this from Andreas in Denmark and his kids are just crushing it. So he said it's amazing how many kids play their best golf in that game. Like they literally shoot their personal best scores during that challenge. And that's because they're playing smart golf. They're hitting to the middle of the green and they'll stumble upon birdies. on par fives. If I aim strategically properly and I accidentally hit it to the left side of my pattern and the pins on the left side of the green, I accidentally hit it to 10 feet. I make the putt. There's your birdie. It's not that easy, but... It's a really good game. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 3: stuff Speaker 2: Good games to take, so we'll figure it out. Let's go from there. Any last thoughts? Gotta get Ben back to his baby before, you know, mama gets... Speaker 1: I was definitely in trouble earlier. ⁓ Speaker 2: Hahaha Speaker 1: It happens every once in while, you know why? Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sitting mellow, but I got a sick kid to take care Speaker 2: BAYLING MORNING Speaker 1: 98 % of the time, but today was one of those tough, it was tough. Speaker 2: It's being apparent we're all there, Any last thoughts, Colin? No. Put the work in. Speaker 3: put the work in. Speaker 1: We're performing or we're learning progress over perfection. Speaker 2: Yep, we're definitely learning in progress right now, but we'll figure it out. All right, well, we appreciate it guys. We'll hopefully be back a little sooner than the last time. Hopefully schedules become a little more consistent here. But as always, like, listen, subscribe, YouTube, Instagram. all the fun stuff. Anything we talk about will be linked in the show notes including IGP and how you can reach out to IGP to get your own lessons and your journey in golf started. So we appreciate the time and until next time. Speaker 3: Until next time, thank you guys. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 2: I take these notes.