Latest / The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast / Picking Up The Pieces

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Picking Up The Pieces · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

0:16
Speaker 1: Hey, it's me Jenny Garth, one of your hosts here
0:19
Speaker 1: at I Do Part two. We were talking with doctor
0:22
Speaker 1: Hillary and there was just so much more that I
0:25
Speaker 1: need to ask her, So let's jump back into that conversation.
0:30
Speaker 1: The hardest part for me was the kids of it
0:32
Speaker 1: all and just that enormous guilt that I was ruining
0:36
Speaker 1: their lives forever. And it was really really hard for me.
0:42
Speaker 1: And I can remember the only thing, the only tool
0:44
Speaker 1: that I heard from somebody along the way was I
0:49
Speaker 1: would say to them in those moments when they were
0:51
Speaker 1: showing me how hurt and upset they were, I wish
0:54
Speaker 1: I had a magic wand and I could wave it
0:58
Speaker 1: and everything would be okay. But I don't.
1:02
Speaker 2: But I love that you said this them, So you
1:04
Speaker 2: did have tools that That's a version of what I'm
1:08
Speaker 2: really saying here. And this is the hard thing as
1:12
Speaker 2: a parent that is part of the decision to divorce,
1:15
Speaker 2: or at least had to agree to the divorce is
1:19
Speaker 2: saying to our kids some version of I can't fix it.
1:23
Speaker 2: It's the last thing we want to say to our kids.
1:25
Speaker 2: But the best thing to say to our kids their
1:28
Speaker 2: reality is that it's not okay, and They don't want
1:31
Speaker 2: to hear all the ways that it's okay. They want
1:33
Speaker 2: to hear that you get it, that it hurts, and
1:36
Speaker 2: that it doesn't feel better yet. Will it feel better? Yes, absolutely,
1:41
Speaker 2: it will feel better. It will feel better tomorrow in
1:43
Speaker 2: a certain way, in a year, in a certain way,
1:46
Speaker 2: in ten years, in a certain way. It will feel
1:48
Speaker 2: better along the trajectory, along the journey. We all know
1:52
Speaker 2: adults who are children of divorce and they're okay, they
1:57
Speaker 2: find their way right. But Parado kids have divorced find
2:01
Speaker 2: their way much more easily if their trauma and their
2:05
Speaker 2: ongoing pain is honored and acknowledged and validated and discussed
2:09
Speaker 2: and not tried to make okay right, because that's their reality.
2:15
Speaker 2: It's never going to be okay for a kid that
2:16
Speaker 2: their mom and dad are together. I mean, there are
2:18
Speaker 2: may be exceptions where something crazy toxic was going on, obviously,
2:21
Speaker 2: but in general, yeah, I love that you put that
2:25
Speaker 2: to them. So you you offer them something critical, which
2:28
Speaker 2: is I see you, I know, and I can't fix it,
2:32
Speaker 2: and I'm right here with you until it feels just
2:35
Speaker 2: a little bit better. You know.
2:39
Speaker 1: What do you think about bringing the new significant other
2:45
Speaker 1: to a holiday gathering to meet your family for the
2:47
Speaker 1: first time. Is that appropriate or is that too much
2:51
Speaker 1: for the new person to handle, too much for the
2:54
Speaker 1: kids the family to handle.
2:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if you come to know me in general,
2:59
Speaker 2: I'm a clinician that likes to hold both sides and
3:02
Speaker 2: talk about both sides. I am not going to do
3:05
Speaker 2: that here. That is a hard no.
3:07
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I failed. I met my new significant
3:13
Speaker 1: other in the beginning of December and he was at
3:15
Speaker 1: our house for Christmas. Oh man, Well.
3:22
Speaker 2: Look, having said that, are there stories where in theory
3:29
Speaker 2: and in concept where I would say no and they
3:32
Speaker 2: work out beautifully? Absolutely? I mean I have clients who
3:38
Speaker 2: meet someone to introduce them to their kids, like the
3:40
Speaker 2: next week, have them move in two weeks later, and
3:45
Speaker 2: and how the beautiful mats became loving. So but let
3:51
Speaker 2: me tell you why I'm saying now, and that is
3:54
Speaker 2: the introduction. It's really about the kids. If there's no
3:57
Speaker 2: kids involved, yeah, I mean, if there's no kids involve,
4:01
Speaker 2: whatever feels right to the adults involved, I think it's
4:03
Speaker 2: just fine. I may have like an opinion one way
4:05
Speaker 2: or the other, but I think it's just fine when
4:07
Speaker 2: there's kids involved, because it bumps up against what I
4:11
Speaker 2: was just talking about, which is like something much deeper
4:14
Speaker 2: in our minds. Were like whatever, it's like two hours
4:18
Speaker 2: over like a turkey and a couple of like eggnogs.
4:20
Speaker 2: It's all good. Other cousins will be there, It'll be
4:23
Speaker 2: like so fun, right. But because it bumps up against
4:26
Speaker 2: this like deeper, this isn't my dad, my mom is
4:30
Speaker 2: moving on it, it sort of kicks up that, like,
4:34
Speaker 2: my mom and dad aren't together. Having your kids meet
4:39
Speaker 2: your significant other in a very small dose, in a
4:43
Speaker 2: super chill environment is what I recommend as a first set.
4:48
Speaker 2: So like it's in neutral territory, you know, over a
4:52
Speaker 2: coffee or a quick ice cream, depending out of age,
4:54
Speaker 2: and it's like an hour and it's like the discussion
4:59
Speaker 2: beforehand is version of what I was just talking about. Like,
5:02
Speaker 2: so you've known about Joe for a long time, but
5:06
Speaker 2: this is different. I'm telling you he's so important to
5:09
Speaker 2: me that I want you, who was the most important
5:12
Speaker 2: person to be in the world, to meet him, and
5:14
Speaker 2: that that's a big message. Well bring up a lot
5:17
Speaker 2: of feelings, you know, really, and it's adjusted for the
5:21
Speaker 2: kids sixteen versus six, But you get what I'm saying.
5:25
Speaker 2: So wow, that's a that's a that's that's a that's
5:28
Speaker 2: a moment. You know, how do you feel about it?
5:31
Speaker 2: Here's my idea. We're going to meet Joe at the
5:34
Speaker 2: yogurt shop tomorrow after school for an hour. We're just
5:38
Speaker 2: gonna have an ice cream and you'll get to stay
5:39
Speaker 2: hi and you can show him your favorite doll and
5:44
Speaker 2: then like that's it. Then maybe we'll see him again
5:46
Speaker 2: another time after right, And so that it's it's it's
5:49
Speaker 2: really low pressure. It has a finite aspect to it
5:54
Speaker 2: and feels kid centered, which I think matters that. It's like,
6:00
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not going to say what I'm going
6:02
Speaker 2: to say right now, but some version of like your
6:05
Speaker 2: comfort matters to me, your feeling state matters to me.
6:08
Speaker 2: So this is slow, this is intentional, This is no pressure,
6:13
Speaker 2: and the meeting itself is really more about Joe meeting
6:18
Speaker 2: the kids versus the kids just witnessing Mom with Joe
6:23
Speaker 2: in their new relationship. It's a way to like bring
6:26
Speaker 2: them in as a part of it as opposed to
6:29
Speaker 2: just like a witness of it.
6:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they are a part of it.
6:34
Speaker 2: Absolutely, That's that's the intention. And so slow rolling it
6:38
Speaker 2: in the way that I was just describing, I think
6:41
Speaker 2: sets up the entire system for the most success, but
6:46
Speaker 2: particularly that relationship between the kids and Joe, because it
6:51
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like too much at once and like a here,
6:56
Speaker 2: he's here, and accept him. Right. It's it's the initial
7:02
Speaker 2: meeting is not about the kid witnessing your connection with Joe,
7:05
Speaker 2: or rather about Joe and the kids just get to
7:09
Speaker 2: know each other, to know each other, and then the
7:11
Speaker 2: next time it's two hours you go bowling, and then
7:14
Speaker 2: the next time it's a movie and dinner, and then
7:17
Speaker 2: from there you're starting to expand. Again, this is super prescriptive.
7:22
Speaker 2: It can work in an absence of all of this,
7:25
Speaker 2: but from a clinical standpoint, now that we have the
7:27
Speaker 2: information we've been talking about, I imagine what I'm saying
7:31
Speaker 2: makes sense and that ideally, and if you're looking for
7:34
Speaker 2: like a little bit of a map, that's the one
7:36
Speaker 2: I would pick.
7:37
Speaker 1: That's a good map. Oh I was flying mapless. Okay,
7:42
Speaker 1: what do you think about people who have a checklist
7:44
Speaker 1: of must haves in a partner? I know I in
7:49
Speaker 1: my work. After my divorce, I had to sit down
7:52
Speaker 1: and think about what was important to me looking forward
7:56
Speaker 1: into another relationship, and my therapist at that time called
8:00
Speaker 1: at my non negotiables, where that there were certain things
8:04
Speaker 1: that were very very important to me to build that relationship.
8:08
Speaker 2: On exactly the phrase I was going to introduce as well,
8:13
Speaker 2: non negotiables and just to think more about it for
8:16
Speaker 2: the folks listening, these are things that like they're just
8:19
Speaker 2: deal breakers that have now decided post divorce with great
8:25
Speaker 2: intention and analysis, you cannot live without, you cannot endure.
8:30
Speaker 2: And I mean those might be things anything from he
8:34
Speaker 2: lives a certain number of miles away, to he does
8:37
Speaker 2: have kids he doesn't have kids, to he cares about communication,
8:40
Speaker 2: to his adventures, lifestyle, whatever the things are, and that
8:45
Speaker 2: is personal and concrete. So concretize those non negotiables, those
8:53
Speaker 2: deal breakers for yourself. And it sounds like you did
8:55
Speaker 2: in a way that is externalized. Don't let it be
8:59
Speaker 2: vague and more like, really decide what are those things
9:03
Speaker 2: and if you sit down with your piece of paper
9:04
Speaker 2: or you're fried or your therapist, I don't know. Oh,
9:08
Speaker 2: I think it's one thing yesterday and one thing tomorrow.
9:11
Speaker 2: That's okay. I'm not surprised you just got out of divorce.
9:14
Speaker 2: It's static and you're trying to find your feet on
9:17
Speaker 2: the ground. So don't despair if you don't know or
9:20
Speaker 2: it keeps changing, but don't give up on it. Right,
9:23
Speaker 2: It's a process. And like we were talking about at
9:26
Speaker 2: the beginning, if you think your non negotiables are you know,
9:29
Speaker 2: these top three things, and then you meet someone and
9:31
Speaker 2: he has kids and you were sure you didn't want
9:34
Speaker 2: to be with someone who has kids. But like all
9:36
Speaker 2: the other things are so important, let it be fluid.
9:40
Speaker 2: Don't make it all encompassing and all powerful in a
9:45
Speaker 2: way that disallows you to be uh, a version of
9:50
Speaker 2: like contrived spontanet at spontaneous. Right, all those things to
9:55
Speaker 2: shift because you will be growing and shifting post divorce.
9:59
Speaker 2: So start the process, but allow it to flow and
10:03
Speaker 2: shift and change, and don't shame or criticize yourself if
10:07
Speaker 2: it does, in fact, expect it to.
10:09
Speaker 1: Yes, should you tell the person about your non negotiables
10:14
Speaker 1: or should you keep them to yourself?
10:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean I might not
10:18
Speaker 2: just like present it.
10:20
Speaker 1: It's like a list. Here, read this and then just
10:25
Speaker 1: sign at the bottom that you actually read it.
10:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me just text you this bullet contract. So
10:33
Speaker 2: if you are sure that you want to be with
10:40
Speaker 2: someone who is open to having children. That seems like
10:46
Speaker 2: a non negotiable that is worthy of sharing. You know,
10:50
Speaker 2: I'm not sure you want to use that as like
10:51
Speaker 2: your date opener. But again, I would embody that truth
10:57
Speaker 2: even in that first meeting, certainly by the second meeting,
11:00
Speaker 2: and it's and I would love for people to When
11:03
Speaker 2: I use the word embody, it's very deliberate. I don't
11:05
Speaker 2: want anyone shrinking and like, well, I just kind of
11:08
Speaker 2: want to be with some of them as kids. I
11:09
Speaker 2: want you to sit in your truth and try it on,
11:14
Speaker 2: even if it changes six months from now. I just
11:17
Speaker 2: know in this season of my life, I'm really clear
11:19
Speaker 2: I want to be with someone who wants to kids
11:21
Speaker 2: as much as I do. It's just it's just something
11:23
Speaker 2: I'm so clear on, which feels kind of great. Right.
11:27
Speaker 2: There's no apology, there's no further explanation. This is my truth,
11:32
Speaker 2: and if the person can't promise or is turned off
11:37
Speaker 2: by that, we can thank them for giving us this
11:40
Speaker 2: feedback quickly so we don't have to carry on any longer.
11:43
Speaker 2: And that might be complex and disappointing and feel rejecting
11:46
Speaker 2: in all those things. But if our goal is to
11:49
Speaker 2: be embodied right, is to figure out what resonates for
11:53
Speaker 2: us and live a life that finally feels like it's
11:57
Speaker 2: uplifting and safe and grounded, we must put these things
12:01
Speaker 2: out there in this embodied way. This is my truth
12:04
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to apologize for it, and I
12:06
Speaker 2: would attach that same mindset to really any non negotiable that, like,
12:12
Speaker 2: don't apologize for it. You know, I want to be
12:15
Speaker 2: with someone that wants to travel three times a year
12:18
Speaker 2: I do. Might seem simple, might seem small, might seem nuanced,
12:21
Speaker 2: but that's my truth for now. How do you feel
12:25
Speaker 2: about travel right that you're just embodying who you are
12:30
Speaker 2: at this season and trying on how it feels to
12:34
Speaker 2: show up that way.
12:45
Speaker 1: I had something so it felt so insignificant, but to
12:48
Speaker 1: me it felt it was important. I didn't want to
12:52
Speaker 1: be with a smoker.
12:53
Speaker 2: Yep.
12:54
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be with somebody who smoked and
12:56
Speaker 1: then for the rest of our lives was sick from it.
13:00
Speaker 1: Always had that smell like it was really important to
13:02
Speaker 1: me and I and when I met Dave, he smoked,
13:08
Speaker 1: and so I immediately thought, oh, well, he's not the
13:11
Speaker 1: one for me because he smokes silly as that is.
13:16
Speaker 1: And I remember asking, is quitting smoking something that you
13:23
Speaker 1: might ever be interested or open to? Do you want
13:25
Speaker 1: to smoke forever? What what is it with you and smoking?
13:30
Speaker 1: Like I had to instead of just shutting it off
13:33
Speaker 1: for myself, I had to do what you said, get
13:36
Speaker 1: curious and embody what I wanted, but at the same
13:40
Speaker 1: time be curious about what he wanted so that I
13:42
Speaker 1: could get that solid information.
13:44
Speaker 2: Right, I know that's exactly what I'm talking about. You
13:49
Speaker 2: have to show up for yourself and it's not easy.
13:52
Speaker 2: That kind of self advocacy.
13:53
Speaker 1: Is very scary.
13:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, scary, and that feeling I want your listeners to
13:59
Speaker 2: understand is ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with you if that
14:02
Speaker 2: feels scary, It is scary to stand in your own
14:05
Speaker 2: truth and declare them with risk. Right, he could have
14:08
Speaker 2: turned around and said, I'm going to keep doing this.
14:12
Speaker 2: If that's a deal breaker for you, then I guess
14:14
Speaker 2: this is where we part ways and that might have
14:16
Speaker 2: been devastating, right, But to pursue something that is like
14:21
Speaker 2: deeply resonating to our soul, which I think is the
14:24
Speaker 2: pursuit post divorce. Right, If we're going to get divorced
14:27
Speaker 2: and we're going to go through that trauma. We better
14:29
Speaker 2: be pursuing something that is like soul worthy, right, you
14:33
Speaker 2: better be. We're going to go through all of that,
14:35
Speaker 2: And so having a conversation like that's, yes, scary, nothing
14:39
Speaker 2: wrong with you. If it's anxiety provoking, all you got
14:41
Speaker 2: to do is eke it out I do. You don't
14:43
Speaker 2: have to feel confident about it, you don't have to
14:46
Speaker 2: not feel scared about it. You just got to get
14:48
Speaker 2: the words out right, conceice it until it starts to
14:52
Speaker 2: feel a little less scary. But I just love that
14:56
Speaker 2: word embodied. It's like just reflecting your truth and allowing
15:01
Speaker 2: for that to shift and change and be influenced by
15:03
Speaker 2: safe others in our own you know, sort of growth.
15:07
Speaker 2: But that's the exact example, a version of the example
15:10
Speaker 2: I had in mind.
15:11
Speaker 1: A dating coach said that you should only go on
15:14
Speaker 1: a date with someone once a week when you're getting
15:16
Speaker 1: to know them. Do you think that's a good rule.
15:21
Speaker 2: In spite of what I've just said about I've said
15:25
Speaker 2: a number of things that are prescriptive in this case. No,
15:32
Speaker 2: I don't like over prescribing dating posts. Divorce what it
15:37
Speaker 2: should or shouldn't look like. I think it induces a
15:40
Speaker 2: lot of confusion and shame and self criticism. Look in
15:45
Speaker 2: its extreme, if you're going out four to five nights
15:48
Speaker 2: a week and not getting a lot of sleep and
15:52
Speaker 2: drinking and in and around lots of different guys, and
15:56
Speaker 2: that dynamic starts to feel like a little messy and
15:59
Speaker 2: overwhelmed and the opposite of grounding. I think that's something
16:02
Speaker 2: to look at. That pattern probably is an ideal in general,
16:07
Speaker 2: and certainly not right in the aftermath of divorce. But
16:10
Speaker 2: I think having like a once a week is the limit,
16:14
Speaker 2: and if more, that's bad. If it less, that's bad.
16:20
Speaker 2: It is overly prescriptive and not useful and ends up
16:24
Speaker 2: making people feel bad. I'm not really interested in.
16:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, the rules of it all are not Yeah, yeah.
16:32
Speaker 2: That's right. So again intuition, you know, back to like, Yeah,
16:37
Speaker 2: so lately I've been going out two three times a week?
16:39
Speaker 2: How does that feel to me? Is it starting to
16:42
Speaker 2: feel like I don't have as much time for self
16:44
Speaker 2: care or sleep or my kids? No shame, no criticism, Yeah,
16:49
Speaker 2: maybe a little. I wonder if I should try twice
16:52
Speaker 2: a week. I wonder what that'll feel like right, you know,
16:55
Speaker 2: and just being curious as opposed to the rules, which
17:00
Speaker 2: I think end up feeling confusing and shaming. I mean,
17:04
Speaker 2: once a week get you decide that and that feels
17:06
Speaker 2: right to you, that's great. But if you decide to
17:09
Speaker 2: do more when you're getting to know someone, I think
17:11
Speaker 2: that's fine. Look, there's the cliche trajectory which plays out
17:18
Speaker 2: often enough that post divorce, you meet someone and filling
17:23
Speaker 2: in space with that person makes you feel less hard
17:27
Speaker 2: things and you aren't thinking about your loneliness and your
17:31
Speaker 2: confusion and your anger and your trauma. We want to
17:35
Speaker 2: watch out for that. If we are unable to sort
17:38
Speaker 2: of reserve time for self reflection to feel all the
17:43
Speaker 2: messy feelings, and the main culprit is dating and the
17:48
Speaker 2: time spent there, that's something to consider. Getting through divorce
17:52
Speaker 2: in a way that is healing and stabilizing requires time
18:00
Speaker 2: to reflect and heal and feel all those tricky emotions.
18:04
Speaker 2: I don't want to equate it to like, so if
18:05
Speaker 2: you're going out more than once a week, that means
18:08
Speaker 2: you can't do that. I just want to be conscious
18:10
Speaker 2: about it. Am I giving myself time and space and
18:13
Speaker 2: mobilizing resources to help myself heal. And if the answer
18:17
Speaker 2: is no or like a diminishing yes, we should look
18:21
Speaker 2: at that and eliminate the things that are or at
18:24
Speaker 2: least modify the things that are getting in the way.
18:26
Speaker 1: Right, speaking of rules, what do you think about books
18:39
Speaker 1: like the rules or men are from Mars and women
18:41
Speaker 1: are for wherever other planet? I can't remember Venus Venus?
18:45
Speaker 2: Yes?
18:46
Speaker 1: Today? Do those kinds of books help?
18:48
Speaker 2: Look? I mean I think some of those concepts were
18:51
Speaker 2: created because of patterns that repeat over time. I mean,
18:56
Speaker 2: none of us are strangers for the idea that like
18:58
Speaker 2: men and women oftentimes think differently and are or less
19:03
Speaker 2: emotional about certain things, et cetera. So I think having
19:05
Speaker 2: like a language to talk about it is it can
19:08
Speaker 2: be useful, like with ourselves between friends with a partner.
19:13
Speaker 2: So they have utility because they make those things concretized
19:18
Speaker 2: in a way that like we can wrap our brain
19:20
Speaker 2: around as opposed to just like the feeling of all
19:22
Speaker 2: those experiences. Having said that, I think dialogue and conversation
19:30
Speaker 2: and nuance and like the self check in pattern that
19:33
Speaker 2: we're talking about is your best tool, not a like
19:39
Speaker 2: chapter three pages.
19:42
Speaker 1: You know, let me just hold on.
19:45
Speaker 2: This is what must be happening. Instead, look in yourself,
19:49
Speaker 2: what is happening? What do I understand about it? How
19:52
Speaker 2: does it feel in my body? If it's confusing, can
19:55
Speaker 2: I say more about it? And what's ever going on
19:58
Speaker 2: with the person in front of us being able? I
20:01
Speaker 2: mean it depends on the situation. Show I'm over generalizing,
20:03
Speaker 2: but to do a version of what you said you
20:05
Speaker 2: did in your circumstance, like huh, I'm feeling this thing
20:08
Speaker 2: or I'm thinking about this thing, like I just want
20:11
Speaker 2: to say it out loud. What do you think? You
20:14
Speaker 2: know that we if we get our head to into
20:17
Speaker 2: books or like Instagram quotes or it can feel very
20:23
Speaker 2: confusing and overwhelming when the answers eventually come within ourselves
20:28
Speaker 2: and in dialogue with our potential partners, and if our
20:31
Speaker 2: potential partners are unable to sustain a dialogue that is
20:36
Speaker 2: delivered in a respectful, digestible way, we need to think
20:40
Speaker 2: about that.
20:42
Speaker 1: If you've broken up, if you're going through a divorce
20:47
Speaker 1: and you're having trouble, you're having a hard time getting
20:50
Speaker 1: over your ex spouse, what should we do? I mean,
20:53
Speaker 1: what questions should we be asking ourselves so that we
20:57
Speaker 1: don't stay stuck. That's the worst when you just can't
21:01
Speaker 1: get over it.
21:03
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it is the worst. It's deeply painful
21:08
Speaker 2: to go through all the things that we're talking about
21:11
Speaker 2: and still of the.
21:12
Speaker 1: Person, especially if that person is already dating someone else
21:18
Speaker 1: moved on.
21:20
Speaker 2: It's devastating. And I'll start there, and it's not a
21:26
Speaker 2: pleasant concept to consider, but it's like a death that
21:32
Speaker 2: induces an incredible amount of grief and all of the
21:36
Speaker 2: stages that go with grief, all the anger, all the denial,
21:39
Speaker 2: all the bargaining, you know, all that stuff that is
21:42
Speaker 2: a little bit cliche, but like, oh so true, you know.
21:45
Speaker 2: And there's no avoiding that. There's no amount of like
21:49
Speaker 2: dating or bashing him, or a therapy or whatever other
21:56
Speaker 2: tools you might mobilize that can be a shortcut of that.
21:59
Speaker 2: You're gonna mon it, you're going to agrieve it, and
22:01
Speaker 2: you're going to feel the things. And that season of
22:04
Speaker 2: life is a little bit of a dark night of
22:06
Speaker 2: the soul, right, it is really, really, really had to
22:10
Speaker 2: get through so paradoxically, leaning in here it is here,
22:15
Speaker 2: it is, I'm leaning in and I'm taking care of
22:18
Speaker 2: myself in every way I can think of, and not
22:21
Speaker 2: expecting it to feel like better or okay in the
22:25
Speaker 2: short run. And I'm like allowing myself to sit in
22:29
Speaker 2: it so that as it begins to pass through, which
22:33
Speaker 2: it always does. I remind clients all the time. Name
22:37
Speaker 2: a feeling state you've had that hasn't changed eventually, No
22:42
Speaker 2: such thing. It does change. It does change, and more eventually,
22:46
Speaker 2: maybe not tomorrow or even like six months from now
22:48
Speaker 2: or twelve months now, shipped and change eventually. And so
22:53
Speaker 2: it's about sitting in it, allowing it to come up
22:55
Speaker 2: and out from your body in a safe way, and
22:58
Speaker 2: just like I said, curate, cultivating as many resources as
23:01
Speaker 2: possible as you get through it, being really kind and
23:04
Speaker 2: graceful to yourself. And when you have time, I shouldn't
23:08
Speaker 2: say time, when you have space to start gently thinking
23:12
Speaker 2: about why this person is not a safe choice for
23:17
Speaker 2: you any longer. Right, And if the only thing on
23:21
Speaker 2: the list is because they don't choose me, that's enough.
23:25
Speaker 2: That's not a safe choice for you anymore, even if
23:28
Speaker 2: everything else about them is amazing, which is usually not
23:30
Speaker 2: the case. But even if it is, that renders it
23:34
Speaker 2: an unsafe choice for you. And that doesn't mean it's
23:38
Speaker 2: easily accepted, but it's something to start orienting yourself around.
23:42
Speaker 2: I can't choose, it doesn't choose me. I can't invest
23:45
Speaker 2: in something that isn't reciprocated, and gently starting to understand
23:50
Speaker 2: the part of you that's willing to do that for two.
23:53
Speaker 1: Oover reminds me just like this hard this hard truth
23:56
Speaker 1: that I had when I was going through it was
23:58
Speaker 1: the therapist saying, Jenny, why would you love someone who
24:02
Speaker 1: doesn't love you back? And that resonated for me in
24:06
Speaker 1: my times of missing and wanting and attaching to things.
24:12
Speaker 1: I would say that to myself and I would be like,
24:14
Speaker 1: I would hate hearing it. Then it started to become like, Okay,
24:17
Speaker 1: this is a feeling. It's going to pass. This is temporary.
24:20
Speaker 1: I know this only lasts for like three minutes, this
24:23
Speaker 1: intense feeling of hurt and pain, And then I would
24:26
Speaker 1: replace that with he is not an option for you anymore.
24:30
Speaker 1: In my mind, that is not an option, So look
24:33
Speaker 1: somewhere else.
24:34
Speaker 2: Yes, it is a deeply painful process to not be chosen,
24:39
Speaker 2: and there's no way around that. But recognizing that truth
24:44
Speaker 2: and building a relationship with it is critical because we
24:49
Speaker 2: can't let ourselves orient our heart, mind, body, sould is
24:54
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't choose us. It's the ultimate self betrayal. Yeah.
24:58
Speaker 2: So it is with great care that we continue to
25:02
Speaker 2: like gently pick ourselves up and place ourselves on another path,
25:06
Speaker 2: because that path we don't get to be chosen, we
25:09
Speaker 2: don't get the love that we deserve. And it's like
25:12
Speaker 2: with great sadness and despair to remove ourselves there. But
25:15
Speaker 2: we must, we.
25:16
Speaker 1: Must, we must survive. Yeah. I love our conversation. Thank
25:21
Speaker 1: you so much.
25:22
Speaker 2: Oh, have such a pleasure, such an important conversation you
25:25
Speaker 2: have I live.
25:25
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for being with us. Yes, of course
25:29
Speaker 1: that conversation with doctor Hillary was so incredibly helpful for
25:33
Speaker 1: even me. I've been divorced for ten plus years and
25:37
Speaker 1: I got so much out of it. And I really
25:39
Speaker 1: hope that everybody listening who is in the position of
25:44
Speaker 1: thinking about a divorce, in a divorce, just had a divorce.
25:49
Speaker 1: I hope that you got some really good info from
25:52
Speaker 1: this pod. And I just I know you can do this,
25:58
Speaker 1: you will get past this, and we are here to
26:01
Speaker 1: help you. So please please, if you want to call
26:04
Speaker 1: us for advice one eight four four four I do pod.
26:08
Speaker 1: That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three,
26:12
Speaker 1: or you can email us at idopod at iHeartRadio dot com,
26:18
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram and TikTok at ID Part two pod,
26:22
Speaker 1: and be sure to check out all the information in
26:25
Speaker 1: our show notes. Make sure to rate us and review us.
26:27
Speaker 1: I Do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in
26:31
Speaker 1: love is the main objective.