Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the fittest geek of all (James H) about his choice of Arc of Infinity (1/4)

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Talks to the fittest geek of all (James H) about his choice of Arc of Infinity (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blump pen knife for doing quicker, quicker.
0:39
Welcome back to Hamster with a Blump Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
0:43
Commentary podcast. Now it is a fact that this
0:48
podcast has been going on for two years now and a lot of
0:53
people that have come on have cherry picked the very best of
0:56
Doctor Who. To talk about it's also a fact
1:01
that some guests have only just materialized on a House of a
1:05
blunt pen life when the dregs are left.
1:09
Hello James. It's very difficult to be
1:11
members of Masochists Anonymous when you're doing a podcast
1:14
about arguing minutes. And the wheel in space and the
1:18
wheel in space we did, yes. Now, we are also going to do the
1:22
ARC, aren't we? No, the ARC.
1:25
No the arc I'm very positive about.
1:27
Me too. There are a few kind of dodgy
1:31
bits which we'll we'll need to address.
1:34
Not quite the literal elephant in the room for that one, but
1:36
there are. Kind of other bits, yes.
1:40
Today we are venturing into Season 20, our color confessions
1:45
made to you. This is probably my least
1:49
favorite season of Classic Who. I think it suffers from some
1:54
interesting publicity choices because of course you've got J&T
2:01
who said, oh, it's season 20, every story must have some link
2:05
to the past. Even if it was just last week,
2:08
you know, or last last season, Yeah, so of course.
2:13
I mean, that's why you got the Brig, you've got the the black
2:16
and white Guardians, you got the Master at the end of it.
2:23
Some of it works, yeah. Oh yes.
2:25
I mean, some of it works because, I mean, at that stage,
2:28
because the Master wasn't in every single story, you know,
2:32
you weren't quite so tired of him.
2:36
Some of it is is not so great. It's quite impressive though
2:44
that they managed to release Enlightenment as a special
2:47
edition DVD and actually make it worse.
2:50
Well, did you think it was worse?
2:51
I know some people that think that that is the superior
2:54
version and other people that think it is.
2:56
You know, an abomination can't stand the new CGI ships.
3:01
The model ships in the original are sublime.
3:06
It's not the only time that's happened, you know.
3:07
You go and watch Invisible Enemy with the new CGI effects.
3:11
It's not a patch on the model work.
3:14
No, I mean it's it's kind of it's bizarre that everyone these
3:18
days is obsessed with CGI. But actually, you know the
3:21
reason that things like Next Generation looks so good is
3:25
because when you got the shots of the ships flying through
3:28
space, it's CGI enhancing a physical model.
3:34
And that's what gives it the. The thing is I saw someone the
3:37
other day comment that the reason that the opening of the
3:43
original series of Red Dwarf still looks hasn't aged, it's
3:49
because it is a model shot. As long as it's 668 foot long
3:53
shot, you know, and it's you know that shot of of Lister's
3:57
kind of painting. The side of it is someone
4:00
painting the side of a wall which they then pull back on and
4:03
merges you together. But yeah, actual physical models
4:06
are. Doesn't Arc of Infinity have new
4:09
CGI effects? On the DVD it does.
4:12
I can't remember one of them. You know I'm well.
4:16
Especially like lasers and things like that, isn't it?
4:18
I'm torn between which ones, which one I'm going to do.
4:21
I've I've decided that I'm going to alternate them.
4:23
So one and three I'm doing as original, but two and four I'm
4:30
going with the special with the new effects because I do
4:33
remember that the end of episode 2 has got definite new effects.
4:39
I think episode 4 has with the kind of the Omega stuff.
4:44
But I'm, I'm one of these weird people that I I haven't watched
4:48
season 20 in a while because I've been trying to kind of is
4:52
all these rumors that's coming out on Blu-ray and it's like
4:54
well, I don't want to watch it because if it's coming out on
4:55
Blu-ray I don't want to just watched it is.
4:59
This is this the last hamster for Oh no, I haven't done I
5:04
haven't done the kings demons yet that's probably my least
5:07
paper. Well, we're very strong our
5:10
life, you know. I I was told with Season 20 that
5:15
it, like essentially every single story, has got a good
5:19
dramatic science fiction idea at its heart.
5:22
At its heart. And it's the execution, both in
5:27
terms of the direction and sort of how fun the script is as to
5:32
whether it works or not. And I think Snake Dance,
5:36
Mordren, Undead and Enlightenment work very well.
5:40
And the five doctors, if you're going to include that in this
5:42
season, a lot of don't. It'll be interesting to see what
5:45
they do about that for the Blu-ray.
5:47
But Arkham, Infinity and Terminus and the King's Demons?
5:54
I mean the fun just got sucked out of those shows somewhere.
5:57
It's not quite the Star Trek movie rule of even numbers good,
6:01
odd numbers bad. But it's, yeah.
6:04
It ain't far off though, and like I feel.
6:10
Like season 18, J&T came in and he wanted to impress, certainly
6:15
visually with the show. And suddenly it feels vaster.
6:19
The better designed, better directed, more experimentally
6:24
schooled. And then he sort of kicked into
6:26
19 and it does continue there. Some great location work, you
6:31
know, Beauty Productions. And now I just feel like the
6:34
fatigue is saying and bearing in mind he wanted to resign like 3
6:40
different times or something. Was the first time after The
6:43
Five Doctors. I can't remember, but I know, I
6:45
mean there's that infamous comment in the making of Silver
6:48
Nemesis documentary where he says, you know whoever's taking
6:52
it over the next year or and if it's me, you'll know that the
6:55
BBC have strong armed me into it or something.
7:00
Am I still making this old shit? I wanted to be on El Dorado.
7:05
He would have been Graymont salvaged El Dorado.
7:08
You know, he would have just made it even camper.
7:10
He would have. Is that possible?
7:15
God, I didn't really watch El Dorado because I only fancied
7:18
one of the people in it It. Wasn't Jesse Birdsall, was it?
7:22
No. Weirdly, I liked him more in
7:23
Bugs though. Oh yeah, I've been watching bugs
7:26
this week. Still a highlight of the 90s for
7:29
me. Oh definitely.
7:30
It's got that. I mean it's it's from the
7:31
Clemens stable, so of course it's got The Avengers funness to
7:34
it. I love bugs.
7:37
It's just a shame the stunt they pulled at the end of season
7:40
three didn't work from again at the end of season 4.
7:43
And they recast 8IN season four and hope that nobody would
7:48
notice, even though he's suddenly English and about 3
7:52
stone less muscle. And yeah, oh.
7:57
My God, you'll be Well, we're totally doing the Bugs podcast
8:00
in the future. I count me in, definitely.
8:03
I will do every episode of that. I I I have a letter from the
8:06
Bugs production team somewhere in my house.
8:08
He's a fact, you know that I am doing this Hamster extra, where
8:11
I'm asking Hamster contributors to come on, do an overview
8:15
episode of a show, and then to choose five episodes that I'd
8:18
love to do commentaries on. Maybe we maybe we should talk.
8:22
Yeah. No, no, absolutely.
8:23
Because I I Bugs has got a very, very special place in my heart.
8:27
But you do realize we're doing anything here, not talking about
8:31
Okay, right? So coming in, you get us
8:34
started, we won't go in just yet.
8:36
You get us started on when you first saw this and what your
8:41
reaction was to it. We're we're in 1983, so I would
8:47
have been years old. Years old?
8:51
Yes, Basically Born in 1900 and misprint.
8:56
I was really lucky I so I'd grown up in a household that
9:02
liked Doctor Who. My grandparents were both BBC
9:07
and were both actually coming Here they were, they were
9:10
genuine Doctor Who fans, I'm told in my grandmother's
9:15
Diaries. Doctor Who has mentioned quite a
9:16
bit. She visited the set of the film
9:19
of Dalek, Invasion of Earth, in her role as a journalist.
9:23
So kind of it was, you know, it was part of my, you know,
9:26
existence already. I'd started with Tom, so I
9:33
hadn't really mourned the loss of Tom.
9:35
I was absolutely devastated by the loss of Adric.
9:41
But then again, yeah, I'm, I am a maths and science nerd, so
9:45
kind of, you know, the set up in in season 19 with kind of Nissa
9:49
and Adric in the TARDIS was basically like, yeah, science
9:53
geeks. You'd be surprised how many
9:55
people have said that to me. You know about how Adric's death
9:58
genuinely knocked them. So yeah, it was, you know, this
10:03
was really the first new season that I was actively kind of
10:10
anticipating. I was buying, who was talking
10:16
monthly, of course, at the time. So I kind of, I'd read a few of
10:19
the previews and I knew that kind of there were new
10:23
companions in the season. It's like, yeah, this is going
10:26
to be really good. And and actually, I remember
10:32
enjoying it. I remember, you know, because,
10:34
you know, one of the things that I think you gotta remember is
10:39
that a back in the the 80s, you know, OK, some of the effects
10:46
didn't work. But actually on the whole, this
10:49
was the level of BBC drama that we were used to seeing.
10:52
So, you know, it didn't look shoddy, it didn't look
10:55
horrendous because that's what the rest of it kind of looked
10:58
like, unless it was one of the prestigious things or
11:00
Shakespeare. I'd even say it was a cut above
11:03
most things at the time and you know, like and they were always
11:06
pushing the boundaries, weren't they, with what they could do.
11:09
And actually, I mean, I genuinely remember being upset
11:12
by the end of Episode 2. Oh, when the Doctor dies, yeah,
11:17
because it's it's not a kind of, you don't know, I know we're
11:21
skipping ahead, but normally you kind of you're used to the
11:24
cliffhanger being just before the Doctor dies and then, you
11:28
know, and then of course, the opening in his being him being
11:31
rescued. But no, it's like no, the
11:34
cliffhanger was. The Doctor has been evaporated,
11:36
you know? But I think it's what I'm I'm
11:39
not going to talk for you, but I think for like for kids, Yeah,
11:43
all of this sort of law going back to Gallifrey Omega, you
11:47
know, and all this stuff, it's this is like really exciting if
11:51
you're a nipper. Yeah.
11:52
And they're exploring the back story of the Doctor.
11:55
And also, I mean, you know, with reading the Doctor Who months, I
11:59
mean, you, they made a big thing, You know, they were
12:00
always talking about Gallifrey and all these kind of time laws
12:03
and everything. So yeah, it was a big deal.
12:07
You know what it does. It breaks my heart, though.
12:10
If you enjoyed this as a child and you know subsequent
12:13
viewings, this has lost its luster.
12:16
That's kind of sad, isn't it? It's very difficult to find
12:21
anything you watched as a child that hasn't lost its luster.
12:26
We were just talking about bugs. You know, it wasn't a child
12:29
then. I I I was.
12:31
I was old enough to appreciate Craig McLaughlin.
12:34
Oh man, when he was naked in a towel with neighbors.
12:38
Do you remember when he was back in the Garden episode two of
12:42
Bugs when he's only wearing a Speedo?
12:45
Yeah, I. Remember that as well.
12:48
God, I bought the VHS out anyway.
12:51
But you as a child, watchers. Unfortunately, I was sort of
12:53
like a a late. Teen, when I first saw this.
12:57
So I was at a point where, you know, I was looking for all the
13:00
faults and everything and nothing I watched could satisfy
13:04
me. And so I watched and I was just
13:06
like, oh, this is so boring. Like I say, I mean, I think
13:10
again, we we lose sight of the fact that, you know, Doctor Who
13:14
was aimed at families, you know, it wasn't a kids show.
13:18
It wasn't an adult show. It was this kind of
13:19
allencompassing thing. So yeah.
13:23
And also it's not like Big Finish where oh, if they need to
13:27
do a short episode, they can get away with 17 minutes.
13:30
If they need to do a 35 minute episode, then they extend it to
13:34
45, You know, they've got, they've got the 25 minute slot.
13:40
You know, J&T had to really petition to get the 30 minute
13:44
slot for trial 14. So I mean, you know, a lot of
13:47
what we see now and again, we don't really appreciate this
13:50
because we're streaming again and look at the episodes of Star
13:54
Trek Strange, New worlds. I mean the episodes like
13:56
variance between about 50 minutes and one hour 10 so far.
13:59
They they they tell the story they want to tell.
14:01
That doesn't matter about the length, Yeah.
14:03
Whereas, you know, it's you've got 24 minutes and 30 seconds
14:07
because we've got this much for continuity and then we have to
14:10
get on to the next program. Yeah.
14:12
And so kind of yeah, inevitably there is going to be some
14:19
stories where actually for whatever reason it under ran.
14:23
So they have to put padding in. They have to put other bits in.
14:26
At the other end of the scale you got stories where they wrote
14:28
way too much for the 25 minutes and they had to savagely cut it.
14:33
I've. Pretty much every single
14:34
Sylvester McCoy story, I've got so much respect for the
14:38
production team for of the 80s and the 70s and the 60s because
14:42
they've, you know, they haven't got huge amounts of resources.
14:46
They haven't got the mill to provide them kind of armies of
14:50
CGI monsters. They've got sticky back plastic,
14:54
you know. They're still doing it sort of
14:56
multi camera whilst America's you know everything's been shot
14:59
on film at this point really you know a comparison that a lot of
15:03
people make who don't necessarily know what the BBC
15:08
was like as well because of course the BBC is what is and
15:13
was an incredibly a thing dominated by internal politics.
15:20
I mean you you you hear all these stories about Doctor Who
15:22
kind of well the children's department didn't want to make
15:25
it because they didn't think it was a children's drama.
15:28
The the the adult drama department didn't want to make
15:30
it because it was you know because they didn't see it as an
15:32
adult drama. You know, they the budget is
15:37
allocated to it, and it's almost like the same budget as an
15:39
episode of EastEnders. Only Doctor Who is going to do
15:42
aliens, explosions, special effects, and yeah, have special
15:46
music composed for every episode.
15:49
Yeah, In fact, it was as good as it was.
15:51
Isn't miracle they even got it made, you know?
15:56
But you know, I think at this point, you know, you sort of say
15:58
about, you know, nobody wants to admit that they're making it and
16:01
all of this. I think the show was actually in
16:03
the zeitgeist at this point. Because Davidson had come in,
16:07
the ratings shot up because of it.
16:09
And because, like, you had the death of Adrick, and so there
16:11
was suddenly a massive interest in the storytelling as well.
16:15
And you've got the the red herring of Tegan, you know?
16:18
I actually feel like maybe some of the downfall of 80s who is
16:23
this season? And just how dreary some of it
16:26
is because the rates do start taking off and they don't really
16:29
recover well. I mean also as well, I mean it's
16:34
lost its Saturday slot. It's now twice weekly.
16:38
So I suppose it's kind of like there's the possibility of
16:43
fatigue setting in because you're seeing, you're getting
16:45
through it twice as quick, you're seeing twice as much each
16:47
week. You know, sun cliffhangers
16:50
resolved after one day. Sun cliffhangers resolved after
16:53
six days. It's a difficult way.
16:56
It's a difficult way to run a show.
16:59
And again, the production team must have known what the
17:06
reaction was gonna be to all the changes.
17:09
And I think John Nathan Turner is far savvier than people
17:12
giving credit for, definitely. But I also think he still made
17:16
some very unusual choices. And I think sometimes how he
17:21
allocated his directors and the directors he chose was a little
17:26
baffling. And I think after time fly, I
17:29
wouldn't have given Ron Jones the opener of season 20 to
17:34
direct. I certainly wouldn't have given
17:36
Pennant Robbers the opener to Season 21 to direct.
17:40
I mean, it's again, you don't know what the politics are.
17:44
You don't know the real stories. I mean, even when these come out
17:49
on Blu-ray, I expect when we go through the production
17:51
paperwork, we'll get hints as to kind of what was actually going
17:56
on behind the scenes. But also it's who was available.
18:01
That's true, yeah. And I'm sure some people weren't
18:03
exactly clamoring to be on the show.
18:05
I just, I just think I really savvy producer would have looked
18:09
at time plan and said, all right, maybe we won't use him
18:12
again like that. That didn't turn out so well,
18:15
yeah. But I suppose the argument can
18:18
be made for time flight, You know, if I'm being positive
18:22
because it's very positive. Podcasts, if it had been made
18:26
mid season when it had a budget, when they hadn't blown it all on
18:32
kind of the previous stories, a lot of times flight's problems
18:36
are it didn't have the budget for what it wanted to do.
18:42
And I mean. It did have a lot of dreary
18:44
techno Babble in it as well, yeah, but if you had the budget
18:47
to make the prehistoric landscape look good rather than
18:51
six square foot in the corner of the studio.
18:54
I mean, I actually think Time Fly is more enjoyable than
18:57
Infinity Cuz I really like the secondary characters and I think
19:00
they bring a bit of energy to us, which is what's kind of
19:03
lacking here. Some of the secondary characters
19:07
bring, how can we put this delicately, a different kind of
19:12
energy that maybe shows the direction that Rtd's brain was
19:17
going in when he was. We don't want to go to the
19:21
planet Zog, where they all talk, you know, a boring telebabble
19:25
James, a pulse loop. The very thing I'm I'm thinking
19:30
more of a certain scene in the crypt in episode one, which has
19:35
dialogue and overtones of a certain type of movie that you
19:39
couldn't legally in 1980s Britain.
19:43
Also need to give a quick public warning, All right, because I'm
19:46
not going to be very kind on Fiona Cummings, nephew, who I
19:50
think is not only the worst actor we've ever seen in Doctor
19:53
Who, but also possibly the ugliest person we've ever seen
19:56
in Doctor Who as well. That's quite a feat, you know,
19:58
to do both of those too. I I think the worst actor is a
20:02
very hotly contested 1. What, in this?
20:05
No, no. In the whole of Doctor Who, I
20:07
mean. Because there's some prestige
20:10
casting in this. Yeah, ugliest.
20:15
That's down to individual tastes.
20:16
Like, that is completely down to individual tastes.
20:19
There are some people out there who, you know, who who fancy all
20:25
kinds of people. I mean, I'm sure that there were
20:27
people who fancied William Hartnell.
20:29
Have you seen William Hartnell in Brighton Rock?
20:31
He's bloody gorgeous, a lot of them when they were younger.
20:35
The the the matinee idol looks, yes.
20:37
And have you seen a young Patrick Tran as well?
20:40
No wonder we had about 15 families.
20:42
I know. And you know, after we saw him,
20:45
you know, seducing Gemma Corwin in the Wheeling space, Yeah, the
20:49
charm for it as well. James, we've done it again.
20:52
We're so off pace and and I think kind of what we what I
20:55
think just to kind of before we we must get into.
20:57
But I think kind of it's interesting that once again the
21:00
timing for this is great. So there are all kinds of
21:03
scurrilous allegations about this story, but given that the
21:06
BBC is currently under kind of a lot of scorulous allegations at
21:10
the moment as well. Hang on, there's no allegations
21:13
of that nature, is there? Aimed at arc of Infinity, not of
21:18
that nature, but of similar nature about kind of.
21:24
Let's just say that I'm I'm looking forward to having Peter,
21:31
Janet and Sarah on the sofa. For behind the sofa on the
21:34
Blu-ray. There have always been rumors
21:37
about what went on in Amsterdam. Oh, of course, yeah.
21:42
Well, yeah. Didn't she flash her tits at
21:45
somebody? Look, I know they were short on
21:48
budget, but. Anyway, I mean, she's wearing
21:52
that boob, too. She's not hiding much.
21:54
I know she hated it. Yeah.
21:57
OK All right. Well, we'll see what we will.
21:59
We will go into episode one. I just want to before we go in,
22:04
I just want to say one thing because I know avid listener and
22:09
contributor. So Hansfield Blood Pen knife.
22:11
Lucy McCall, right. Pete Davidson is her doctor.
22:14
She calls him her doctor and she loves him to pieces.
22:17
And I just want to say from the off he gives a heroic
22:21
performance in this actually and in time fly as well.
22:24
I think he is without fault. Yeah, well, you can have that
22:28
one for the kind of the three good things at the end then.
22:31
OK, God, that's going to be a struggle.
22:35
All right, well, should we go into episode one?
22:37
Yes. Are you feeling bold enough to
22:39
tackle both Amsterdam and Gallifrey?
22:42
I'm very bold. I have heard this rumor.
22:47
All count is in there. Go on 321.
22:54
Go, go, go. Did you say how old you were
22:56
when you were first watching this?
22:58
I was born in 1900 and misprints and that was how far.
23:01
That's right. You refused to say because
23:03
people ascertain how young you are now.
23:06
Yeah, I will say. I mean, this is my opening as
23:10
well. Sorry listeners, you didn't see
23:15
that. I timed that just as it took a
23:16
mouthful of water. You've got to remember what
23:18
bloody podcast you're on as well.
23:20
OK, this is your title sequence, is it?
23:24
Yes, my title sequence. Johnny Byrne.
23:27
Oh, an interesting character and an interesting track record,
23:33
right? I'm.
23:35
I'm going to start off by actually countering some of the
23:38
fan criticism of this story because it's one of these ones
23:44
where kind of you know, we've got this mystery character, kind
23:48
of we've got two mystery characters, one of course
23:52
publicized in advance as Omega because you know, season 20.
23:57
But the the, the figure in the dark that we can't see and
24:03
there's this great long running criticism of like, oh, they put
24:06
him in the dark. They don't disguise his voice.
24:09
So we know who it is, you know? We don't know.
24:13
Stuart Hyde has never played Omega before.
24:16
No, it was in. It was in all the prepublicity.
24:18
I'm talking about the Time Lord. Oh, I see Michael Goff you're
24:22
talking about they they don't go out of their way to hide the
24:26
actor's voice, but it's like, why would they?
24:28
Because he's sitting in a room on his own, talking to his, you
24:34
know, Coconspirator. Why would he go to the trouble
24:37
of disguising his voice? Actually think those scenes are
24:40
some of the best in episode one. You know one they've turned the
24:43
bloody lights down and I think Omega looks fabulous in that
24:47
sort of negative effect. Yeah.
24:50
And then yes, we go from Omega looking fabulous to a Bank of
24:56
seemingly. These Gallifrey sets, what were
24:59
they thinking? Well, I'm I'm going to save some
25:03
of that comment for later on, but because the other bit I
25:07
really winds me up about 80s Doctor Who.
25:10
In general, it's removing random roundels to expose circuitry.
25:18
Taken to its nadir in Dimensions in Time?
25:21
Yeah, because you know a none of the roundels are labeled, and
25:27
clearly the TARDIS reorganizes its corridors every bloody 5
25:30
minutes. So how are you going to find
25:32
them? It's so boring as well.
25:34
Circuits always look very dreary, don't they?
25:37
In the three doctors, when they take out the force field
25:40
generator, it looks like a weird piece of equipment.
25:45
And then suddenly in the 80s, it's circuit boards and wires.
25:49
Well, they could have done like, you know, fiber optic lamps.
25:52
They could have done a weird light and things moving and
25:54
things like that. They've done something, you
25:57
know? I have to decide.
26:00
I'm going to wave my pencil at you whilst I talk quite a lot.
26:03
Okay, by the way. It's a pen.
26:05
I know it is. I think that's supposed to be
26:07
like a time law pencil, though, is waving about for dramatic
26:11
effect. I think it's because both of
26:13
them, one's in the shadows and one's not moving, so we know
26:17
he's talking. It's very odd.
26:20
So remind me, which of these is the the relative?
26:24
It's the one on the left with the very strong Australian
26:27
accent who goes. I'm not too keen on the
26:29
neighbors. Is it that one that you think
26:32
he's? No, I think he's quite dishy.
26:35
I think it's the one on the right Cummings nephew.
26:39
He's terrible. He's acting some of his line
26:42
deliveries. At one point he goes, OK, very
26:44
funny, just terrible. What do you think about this
26:48
then? The Doctor and Nissa, I like the
26:52
fact that Big Finnish actually took the advantage to put
26:56
literally years worth of adventures in.
27:01
I mean they they managed to have kind of like, you know one
27:04
episode of Circular Time which lasted a year and.
27:11
Yet she hasn't really changed much since Timefly, and all of a
27:15
sudden she's back in the brown patchwork.
27:18
Well, the Snouja, you know, she's she's been tortured and
27:21
creatures from beauty. She's seen the genesis of the
27:24
cyber man in the spare parts. She's done a lot, you know.
27:27
And there's more. I've got, I've got a few
27:31
comments about cyber men coming up as well.
27:34
Right back to the negative. Yeah, it's.
27:36
Glorious. It's fantastic.
27:41
But the other day's the time now Is it actually a pencil?
27:45
Because I mean, it's got a light up thing on the end.
27:47
I'm not sure it's a bit camp though, the way he's waving it
27:50
about. And of course we're getting
27:53
towards the end of this console's life.
27:58
Blu-ray, I suspect is going to highlight why we're getting
28:00
towards the end of the console's life.
28:03
Have you noticed? Right since Tegan's chipped out
28:06
the show, suddenly this is the one that's having a go at him
28:09
all the time. She won't do it that much in
28:10
season 19, but I think Ericsson Ward feels the need to have this
28:14
sort of conflict. I suspect she would have had
28:16
much more of a go at the Doctor had Tegan not got in first, you
28:20
know, I think. That's maybe very true, A very
28:23
domineering character. Yeah.
28:26
I I really like in this how we get to see her away from the
28:31
Doctor Who universe for a little while.
28:33
That's really refreshing. And when she does arrive, old
28:37
boy, am I going to kind of ask awkward questions.
28:40
So got these two fellas now going behind the fountain, yeah.
28:44
I mean, I have done this a couple of times.
28:46
You know what? In Amsterdam.
28:49
I went to a fabulous sauna in Amsterdam, you know, Honestly, I
28:52
didn't need to go behind the fountain.
28:53
They're all very they're very open about it these days.
28:56
I still have nightmares occasionally about my second
28:59
visit to Amsterdam, but again, that's an episode.
29:02
That's for episode 4 of this story.
29:04
Okay. But yeah, I mean in the 80s it's
29:08
very strange. I'm actually very kind of not
29:15
well versed, but I've done a lot of research about body types and
29:19
body image and body looks and stuff because I have a mental
29:23
disorder called body dysmorphia. I think I might be on the scale
29:28
as well. Yeah.
29:29
I mean it's, I mean I've had therapy for all kinds of things.
29:32
But it's very interesting that in the early 80s, you know,
29:37
because you talk about them being ugly, getting it.
29:39
If you see what passes for kind of like early 80s, European and
29:45
English porn, this is very much the body type that is actually
29:50
in there. So kind of, you know, we really
29:52
are looking at the standard opening of an 80s European kind
29:56
of Twinkie porn thing. It's only later in the 80s that
30:00
suddenly people develop muscles and everything in English porn
30:02
because it's coming from the States.
30:05
So actually kind of, you know, when you talk about being the
30:08
ugliest one in, you know, Doctor, you know, in 80s terms
30:13
he's actually not that bad. You know, he's he's kind of.
30:17
I'm not going to talk about the standard of the 80s.
30:19
And you know what? I shouldn't be?
30:20
I should be the last person to be shaming somebody's looks.
30:24
You know, that was just me trying to get a cheat gag.
30:27
Who shamed this guy's hairline? 1 Tip if If you've got a If
30:34
you've got a hairline that's receding quicker than your
30:36
career, don't lean forward into the camera.
30:39
This is great, that massive Time Lord call a shadow on the wall.
30:43
It's like. They're doing suspense, but in
30:46
the most like insanely melodramatic way.
30:51
And again, I mean, it's the music, as you say is a bit kind
30:55
of. The gun looks cardboard.
30:57
Doesn't look cheap. It feels like the money's run
31:02
out already, even though we're on location in Amsterdam.
31:05
Well, that's why the money's run out.
31:09
But you know, like he does say to him as well in a minute down
31:11
in the crypt. Like how aren't you going to
31:14
take your clothes off and things like that?
31:16
I'm going to leave my shoes on, you know.
31:18
And, you know, it's no secret that John Nathan Turner was a
31:20
gay man who liked younger men. And I I'm wondering, you know,
31:26
as he whispered in Johnny Burns, can you put a bit of this into
31:29
the show, please? You know, maybe just to be a
31:32
little, not maybe risque, maybe just on the edge of what was
31:36
acceptable. It's an attempt to bring kind of
31:40
different looks of different types of people in.
31:43
I mean, again, when was the last time in who you heard like a
31:47
wide range of accents in one story?
31:51
And then? Yeah, we're suddenly bringing in
31:55
kind of different cultures, you know?
31:58
I like the woman later with the Dutch accent.
32:00
They actually find a Dutch actress to play that role, which
32:03
is really nice. That means the fact that Omega
32:06
is speaking with Received Pronunciation and has got that
32:09
terribly melodramatic voice. Unbelievable.
32:12
You know, that's what is it? God bless the good ship, women's
32:16
live and all the sailing. Yeah, And when he comes back for
32:20
Big Finish as well, he's brilliant in that Omega Audio
32:25
again, that's again, that's kind of right mirror long I.
32:28
Think Yes mirror long. Is this the last use of mirror
32:32
long? A sad day, James.
32:35
I'm trying to think. Sort of like we we we we we
32:49
music going on. I can't think of, oh, sorry,
32:39
kind of 80s traditional entrance of something evil glowing ball
32:44
of light, you know, But this is that.
32:50
But that that kind of fountainy Whirlpool upright column thing
32:55
moving is genuinely quite a good effect.
32:58
And I like the slow motion running as well.
33:04
Yeah, so it's something weird happening in the TARDIS.
33:06
So this is all kind of good, I think.
33:08
Yeah, I mean, it is actually a very strong TARDIS opening.
33:13
You know the TARDIS gradually is being eroded from being the safe
33:18
space, and you'll notice across the J&T era, it no longer is
33:25
refuge. It's no longer safe.
33:27
You've got the malice that invades it, the Cyberman attack
33:29
it. Omega gets inside it.
33:32
I was about to say Omega penetrates because I thought
33:34
that might push it. Do you?
33:35
Remember being like physically recoiling in that scene in Earth
33:39
Shock where the Cyberman's firing his gun and the console
33:42
was like, exploding and going, no, this is the this is the same
33:46
place, you know. Do you know I can't watch those
33:51
Eight people videos? You know, I did try, but the
33:54
music is terrible, isn't it? It's even worse than the music
34:01
in Arc of Infinity, something that is, that baffles me.
34:05
And again, it's not Arc Infinity.
34:06
It's a whole Doctor Who thing. When we heard the TARDIS, a
34:12
TARDIS noise just now, of course we had the flashing light.
34:14
It's like, why do they sudden, you know, why do Tardises have
34:18
to have some kind of flashing light?
34:20
I mean in the Gopolis when the doctors demonstrating the
34:23
Comedian circuit to Adric and he brings up that kind of line
34:28
drawing of a pyramid, you know if the pyramid material, what
34:31
would there be a beacon on top the?
34:33
Kind of like the Exelons. And then suddenly you think,
34:39
well, actually the exceptions, this is the Master's TARDIS.
34:42
Because when it's the column that never flashes.
34:45
So why did this one suddenly kind of It's a doorway for fuck
34:48
start, for crying out loud, you know?
34:51
Oh my God, right? You're gone.
34:55
It's bathed in light. It's more or less a silhouette,
34:59
you know. They should have just kept it
35:01
like that. And yeah, so first first comment
35:06
is, well actually, yeah, in silhouette it doesn't look too
35:09
bad. Brief glimpse of it.
35:12
You've also got to remember as well that back in the 80s you
35:15
didn't have huge, high quality televisions.
35:19
You know the picture, This is DVD remastered and everything.
35:23
Yeah, if you didn't know what it looked like then actually it's
35:27
like what? What?
35:28
You know, so actually those first scenes are going to have
35:31
been quite good. I don't know if it came before
35:33
or after. I think Johnny Burns scripted
35:35
that Dragons domain episode of Space 1999 with that terrifying
35:41
monster. So I think maybe he's been given
35:44
a unrealistic illusion of what they can achieve on a budget.
35:49
You know, I mean, so many writers come in with great ideas
35:53
for scripts, which the production department go, yes,
35:57
yeah, we can do that. Well, you gotta remember JNC is
36:02
the producer that saw the Merka creature and when it's
36:05
magnificent like, right. He's used to Panto.
36:11
Remember that it's, you know he's not the best actor, but I
36:14
mean to be honest what you if you think about it he's what
36:19
he's supposed to be a gorky gangly 19 year old or night old
36:26
late teen, something backpacking round.
36:31
You know that kind of person in the 80s would have been kind of
36:38
probably slightly affluent upper middle class type thing.
36:41
So he won't have a common accent.
36:43
You know he will speak reasonably well and that this he
36:51
has the decency to run. That's true.
36:53
Oh, he's killed a Weeping Angel. No, I want to say 2
36:56
complimentary things. They're all coming out of me
36:59
now. I think this set is really
37:02
great, and it's draped in cobwebs and it's a nice creepy
37:06
set and it's dark. Yeah, so it's almost You're
37:08
right, it's almost making that absurd costume work.
37:12
What's annoying is that we cut to Gallifrey, where everything
37:15
looks very in the studio and bling and very artificial.
37:19
And also we've got this really bizarre kind of pretrial of a
37:23
time all set up where you've got one person sitting to the side,
37:27
sitting at 90 degrees to a Bank of people, you know, and he has
37:31
to turn his head to look and yeah.
37:34
And you know what's so funny about how this is all positioned
37:37
is that they're all in a row, right?
37:39
But none of them could turn their heads because of the
37:41
collars. But they're all talking to each
37:43
other, so they also have to talk forwards to the camera but to
37:46
each other. The comment I would make is, is
37:50
this an arc of Infinity problem or is this still kind of like?
37:54
Because of course, this is the era where a certain person, Ian
37:59
Levine, is exerting his influence a little bit more and
38:03
more over John Lathan Turner. You've got to get the colors
38:07
right. So the colors probably weren't
38:11
kind of necessarily, you know, a a conscious what they probably
38:17
got Force isn't. I can't remember.
38:19
I can't remember if they were in stock or not.
38:21
I didn't check touch. Would you remember when you get
38:24
to try the time law, they're not going to have Linda Bellingham
38:26
in one of those massive collars where she can't move right
38:28
around for 13 episodes, So they just slightly redesign it.
38:32
It's a bit more relaxed. Oh, Name drop, right?
38:38
What did I miss? No, no.
38:39
And this is saying this is the make the region that the the
38:42
ancients gave this over space, the arc of Infinity.
38:46
So now we know why it's called that.
38:48
And I I wanted to spare another criticism of this story.
38:52
And that is, well, why I said it in Amsterdam, you know?
38:55
And I think my only complaint is the fact that they even bother
38:59
to give a reason as to why, because I think it's a perfectly
39:03
valid place to set a Doctor Who story.
39:05
And isn't it refreshing to not being, you know, brilliant, I
39:07
mean. 2 miles of London for a change.
39:09
It's just yeah, as you say kind of the fact they felt the need
39:13
to justify. It's like, no, just like, no,
39:15
it's in Amsterdam. Well, we'll go to Amsterdam
39:17
then, you know, it's kind of, yeah.
39:20
But you know, in dramatic terms, yeah, The Doctor, Tal is being
39:25
invaded, The Doctor going home to Gallifrey.
39:28
Sort of mysterious things going on behind the scenes.
39:32
Oh my God, is Colin Baker the hat so big it doesn't fit
39:35
through doors. I love how affectionately he
39:39
talks about Arkham Infinity on in every interview.
39:43
And goes I I have tremendous sympathy for that hat.
39:48
I did a many, many years ago. I was in the school production
39:52
of Alice in Wonderland, and I played the Caterpillar and they
39:57
built me a giant mushroom. They built me this huge
39:59
Caterpillar costume. They forgot to measure the door
40:03
that I had to be wheeled in through and I basically had to
40:05
like lean back on this. So yeah, it's like.
40:10
Is there photographic evidence of this?
40:12
Yeah, they used to be videos. I don't know if there is, you
40:14
know, I'll see if I've got photos.
40:17
Put it below in the tweet, Fred. Alright.
40:21
Very interesting comment or interesting to my mind.
40:25
The TARDIS looks like it's got lots of physical controls that
40:31
do things. The problem we've got, and again
40:33
it's not an arc of Infinity thing, it is a general, in fact
40:37
a general science fiction to be honest.
40:39
You can tell which the controls are that are going to move
40:42
because they look like physical buttons.
40:44
Everything else looks like vacuum form plastic.
40:47
Yeah, and you're right, that's that's just general design of
40:54
the time, isn't it? I mean, this is also another
40:58
this is the year, of course, of the the technical manual.
41:01
So, you know, we're suddenly finding out on written paper
41:05
what all these bits of the TARDIS console do, which is
41:07
probably why they blew it up so they could.
41:10
Not have to stick to what were they written in the book, That
41:13
five Doctors one. That's one of my favorite.
41:15
I love that one so much. And all of that is physical
41:18
buttons, isn't it? That's what I like about that.
41:20
And say what I do like about this console and the five
41:24
doctors one compared to, I'm sorry, I'm going to say this why
41:29
I think it's superior designed to the Heartland Trouten type
41:32
ones and the Tom Baker ones is because it's got the monitors
41:36
where it's actually giving you readouts.
41:39
So you actually get feedback from the console about what's
41:42
going on, whereas in the kind of the other consoles, they're just
41:47
random flashing lights and dials and the Doctor sort of
41:50
translates it all for us. Oh dear, look, how studio about
41:55
that? I mean that looks like a BBC
41:57
studio there that told us Materializer.
42:00
It's the interior of a building. It's actually it is.
42:04
The interior of Gallifrey HQ as it were.
42:07
So why should it look any different?
42:09
Cuz I just want Gallifrey to be this vast incredible space and
42:13
not like news at ten's about to be recorded in it.
42:16
Yeah, I mean it's an interesting to us, but this is, I've got to
42:21
you know let's ask the really difficult question who designed
42:28
it? I don't mean.
42:30
The set designer. I don't mean kind of, you know,
42:32
the actual kind of real BBC designer.
42:35
Do you mean the Gallifreyan designer?
42:37
Is there a Lawrence Newell and Boeing on Gallifrey?
42:41
Yes. And it's just like, yeah,
42:44
because you just know that they have spent 50 to 100 years
42:49
deciding on the shade of grey. And you know, that's to me, you
42:55
know, a kind of, you know, a fun background bit and also.
43:00
That are in a prison, that in a cell.
43:02
It's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be kind of,
43:05
you know, colorful. It's not going to be big and
43:07
expansive. It's a big old prison cell.
43:10
Your argument holds white until we end up in that dreary cafe in
43:15
the corridor. Look, I'm doing my best, as we
43:18
know about. Well, The thing is, it's just
43:22
such a stark contrast to the sex in Amsterdam, which just feel
43:25
very sort of realistic and authentic.
43:27
And look at, yeah, look at the effort they're going to do.
43:29
They've got the posters, they've got all kinds of leaflets,
43:31
they've got so much prop detail. I think the designer is far so
43:37
more comfortable doing realistic locations rather than Space City
43:42
on Gallifrey. But again, I have got, you know,
43:47
a justification, which I will. Next time we have a Gallifrey
43:49
scene, I will kind of. I will be nice.
43:52
I'm going to praise it. Why don't they?
43:56
Why don't they ever do like an exterior shot of Gallifrey?
44:01
Because they will do that. They did it in the Leisure Hive.
44:04
They do it in Other Stories. So why do they never show us
44:07
sort of the scale of the building from the outside?
44:10
Look at the scale model of car falling time lash.
44:13
Oh I know, but it would at least it would.
44:16
It would sort of open it out I. Think the problem is people's
44:19
expectations would be very high. And again, it's kind of almost
44:26
like the kind of the showing the workings of the TARDIS.
44:29
Do we need to know what it looks like?
44:31
Cuz you know, we were told certain things in Deadly
44:35
Assassin about how many flaws there were and everything like
44:38
that. And it's like, you know, really,
44:42
you know, Gallifrey is supposed to be this mysterious place.
44:47
It's supposed to be this weird kind of place and.
44:52
My thing, so here we've got a a functional control room.
44:59
You know again this is actually kind of you know the room where
45:02
they are working in. It's you know basically it's
45:05
like the equivalent of that room with all those plastic cylinder
45:10
things in deadliest asset. So of course there's going to be
45:13
banks of controls. But you know what?
45:15
I think this is supposed to be quite plush for the 80s.
45:20
Yeah, And this is have you seen 80s decor?
45:24
I was quite young. I was born in 1980.
45:27
I can't remember too much of it. It's trust me, you know, you
45:31
know, this is kind of sadly this is 80s decor.
45:35
They spent, you know, at least a millennia deciding which of
45:38
those globe lands they were going to have in the cafe.
45:41
Yeah. And the other question again is
45:45
not just who designed it, but. You know, so to start off, I
45:47
mean, this is clearly not the same part of Gallifrey as deadly
45:52
assassin invasions time, because that was their big formal kind
45:55
of reception, banqueting kind of error.
45:58
This is the more functional kind of council offices, everything
46:02
like that. The Conference Center, part of
46:04
Gallifrey. And again, it looks like a
46:07
Conference Center, which is what it is.
46:10
I'm your successor, like you remember when we, when we're
46:14
wandering around that ship in mortar and undead, that sort of
46:16
Art Deco ship, you know, and it had a bit of visual interest.
46:20
This is very dreary to look at. I'm thinking about the few times
46:27
that I've had to work in buildings that weren't
46:31
educational buildings, you know? And I'm sorry.
46:34
They all look dreary as hell. There was one time I did work in
46:41
school which had just been built.
46:44
It was a new build. They were really proud of it.
46:47
It looked shit. It looked like Gray, drab,
46:51
featureless corridors with literally so you could work out
46:54
which area you're in. There was one line of color
46:57
going along the middle of the wall.
46:59
That kind of like that dado rail hike kind of thing, you know, we
47:02
look like Alifrey then. It looked like I commented on
47:06
this, I mean it went over the my colleagues heads but.
47:09
Yeah, I think sometimes again, we have this really bizarre
47:14
expectation of alien worlds, Gallifrey especially, and we
47:20
forget that these are supposed to be entire societies.
47:25
You know, you look around England, you look at the huge
47:29
range of architecture we got in England, you look at the huge
47:32
range of interior and exterior looks that we've got.
47:36
You know, everything is different.
47:38
You have got some buildings which are magnificent, some
47:41
buildings which are concrete monstrosities.
47:44
Sorry if you're a fan of that brutalist architecture hard.
47:50
So we we kind of have this expectation that you know, every
47:55
single bit of Gallifrey is going to look exactly like it did in
47:58
Deadly Assassin. I think my issue is they were
48:04
introduced as sort of God like beings in the war games and
48:08
there was an attempt to suggest scale and sort of splendor in
48:14
The Deadly Assassin. It was an entirely successful,
48:17
but they did attempt to suggest. It But remember as well, the
48:19
deadly assassin is set around essentially a coronation.
48:27
That's true. You know, and then we're spoiled
48:30
in the new series because obviously now they've got their
48:31
money to give it the scale, but you know.
48:35
This is a society. I mean, Gala Freyans, they have
48:38
to live. They have to eat.
48:40
I mean there's whole kinds of questions that this raises about
48:43
kind of like, yeah, are there Gala Freyan builders, You know,
48:47
was this done using block transfer computation or did you
48:50
have kind of this is the best they could?
48:53
Do last time, Yeah. They'll come back on Thursday,
48:56
but they'll not say which millennia that Thursday is in.
48:59
You know, it's, yeah, but in the terms of the biggest problem is,
49:03
is you've got very boring characters talking, very boring
49:08
dialogue in very boring sets, and that does not make
49:11
particularly engaging. Viewers, it's kind of, you know,
49:14
the sets you can justify because they are in functional parts of
49:20
Gallifrey. The the Time Lord characters, I
49:25
suppose you can justify by saying they're 5000 years old
49:28
each. They kind of, you know, they got
49:29
past their, their teenage exuberance and believe me, the
49:34
number of meetings that I have sat through, which makes these
49:37
guys look lively. But in an entertainment program,
49:40
shouldn't we expect to be entertained?
49:43
Now, yeah, rather than watching the dreariest politics, the gala
49:47
breaking offer. Where my defense does fall flat,
49:50
I I really admit, you know, one of one of the issues of course
49:56
is that yes, we're trying to be entertained.
49:59
It's trying to be dramatic. But the problem is, you know,
50:06
they've decided for whatever reason to tell a story which has
50:11
got a legal aspect to it. You know, the doctors kind of
50:15
decision. They are a bit like lawyers,
50:17
aren't they? Yeah.
50:18
And so again, what we're looking at is kind of like science
50:21
fiction legals. You know what people don't
50:25
realize is that this is 50% science fiction and 50% CSI
50:31
Gallifrey. Gallifrey Law, Yeah.
50:34
It's, yeah. And it's trying to appeal to two
50:38
different categories of fans. I mean, you look at the, you
50:42
know, the new adventures, the Virgin new adventures.
50:47
The the kind of the books, they tend to kind of separate things
50:52
out. You know, you either have real
50:56
high octane adventure type thing or you have more sedate ones.
51:01
You don't ever really mix and match.
51:03
The only one that mixes and matches, which I'm going to
51:07
bitch about in the next episode, is Times Crucible.
51:13
How interesting. Yeah, the time is Crucible.
51:16
Yeah, I did. I did a talking book of it which
51:20
I must do which Mark soon, and I have got a real bone to pick
51:24
with Mr. Platt. I found the whole thing
51:27
indecipherable. I mean, it was full of big
51:29
ideas, but. Strange enough, when I did it,
51:32
doing it as a talking book and actually reading it out loud,
51:35
and because some of the bits are really bloody difficult to read
51:38
out loud, having to do some of them five or six dozen times,
51:42
you know? I actually now understand the
51:44
plot. I understand the story, I
51:45
understand what's going on. It's as you say, it's got a lot
51:49
of really big ideas in, but they got the gala for bits up broad,
51:54
too deep and too boring for the small screen.
51:57
And it's very you know it's very much this kind of model that you
52:01
got 50% of it set in the world of the process which is
52:05
interesting which is and then you got the gala.
52:10
But but at least in Arc of Infinity, right, you've got and
52:14
the saving grace of the Gallifrey sequences is Colin
52:18
Baker and Paul Jericho as Maxell and the Casterland and their
52:22
bitchy relationship and Colin Baker camping it up in like he
52:26
says he considered it the Maxwell Show and he's only walks
52:29
around as if he owns the place. Yeah, I will comment on.
52:36
Mark Platt during episode 2, because again, there's actually
52:41
kind of a few bits that again, questions that we never found
52:46
the answer to that are raised by this and other Gallifrey
52:48
stories. And just before we out the
52:52
cliffhanger, like I said to you earlier, the dramatic points of
52:56
this episode are sound. The TARDIS invaded into the
52:59
Doctor's body, print taken and then the Doctor being shot.
53:03
I have one real issue with the first.
53:05
The first Cliff is OK. He's a very traditional doctor
53:09
shot. You know, he's only been
53:10
stunned, but you know that's not the point.
53:12
It's applied. He's been shot by Colin Baker.
53:14
Yeah, but more importantly, if you actually watch it and watch
53:17
it carefully in the recap, he's shot in the shoulder.
53:20
And this Gallifrey anatomy is very, very strange.
53:24
You don't have anything particularly damageable in your
53:27
shoulder. We've never seen an X-ray, you
53:29
know. Oh no, we have.
53:30
We saw an X-ray over time. It was in the spirit of the
53:32
space and the TV. Movie Sansazani, you know.
53:37
Yeah, I did a play many years ago.
53:42
What the Butler saw, yeah. And there are pictures.
53:47
No, they are not going in the Twitter thread because I
53:49
absolutely despise them because I was very ill when we were
53:53
doing it. I put on weight, which I didn't
53:55
want to, but basically my character was running around in
53:58
the pair of underwear, pair of really tacky wire fronts and had
54:02
just been shot. And seriously, we spent a huge
54:09
amount of time in one of the what became known as the Undress
54:13
Rehearsals. Because if you've ever seen what
54:15
the Butler saw, you'll know that very few of the characters keep
54:18
their clothes on for very long. You gotta see.
54:21
It's fantastic. Yeah, it sounds like a play I'd
54:23
like. Joe Orton Joe Orton.
54:26
It's much missed anyway, but we spent a huge amount of time
54:29
debating where and how big to make the bullet wound.
54:35
So that it was obviously one that would have caused me pain.
54:38
I'd be shot, of course. It could be fucking pain, Jenny.
54:40
Yeah, but where it would go so the kind of it wouldn't impede
54:44
my actions for the rest of the play.
54:47
And was it your shoulder? Yeah, it basically kind of.
54:51
We worked out that basically it was just about about four or
54:56
five inches above the nipple, so just beneath the shoulder joint,
54:59
so I could still move my arm so I hadn't shattered the ball and
55:02
socket joint. It hadn't penetrated the heart
55:05
or anything like that. It was like, I've got a feeling,
55:06
you know, you were putting more thought into that than perhaps
55:09
they were when Peter Davidson was shot in Arc of Infinity, of
55:12
course, because he just has a little lie down in Episode 2 and
55:14
then he's fine. Mind you, that is not as much
55:17
thought as they put into one very key prop.
55:20
For what the Butler saw. Go on.
55:24
It's a bit of a spoiler, so if we'll make this how old is the
55:29
play? Oh, it's the 1960s, But it's so.
55:33
Basically kind of a a mold of Winston Churchill's genitalia is
55:40
required for the final scene. Definitely Joelson.
55:45
One of the props ladies went to Soho to look at the possible
55:51
ranges of shapes and sizes of dildos that were available that
55:54
she might base it on. Wow, where is that now?
56:01
This was many years ago. I suspect if she's still alive,
56:04
if it's still in her collection, if she's not still alive.
56:07
I miss her terribly, by the way. She should have been working on
56:10
Doctor Who, you know, So the dreary props we had in this.
56:13
If if she's no longer with us, then oh, that would be a
56:18
something in in the will that would have caused dildo the
56:24
shape of Winston Churchill, yeah.
56:27
Should we end Episode one, I'll cut it there.
56:33
That's a great place to win.