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You Made Karen Your Entire HR Department · The Healthy Church Staff Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, if I asked who handles the HR your church, would you name a role or just give me someone's first name?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Karen takes care of that.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Karen might be your office manager, your church administrator, maybe your operations coordinator.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: She handles the calendar, she keeps the office running, and somehow knows where every single thing is.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: She handles new entire paperwork, any kind of benefits questions, background checks, onboarding, offboarding, whatever happens when somebody says, we probably need to talk to somebody about this.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Karen is your person.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Karen has become the answer to a much bigger question than anyone ever remembers asking.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're going to talk about what happens when a capable administrator gradually becomes the church's entire HR department.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hi there, my name is Todd Rhodes, one of the co-founders of chemistry staffing.com.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll check us out over at Chemistry.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you're listening to the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: This can happen with anybody on your team.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: For this episode, we'll just use the name Karen as a hypothetical example.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now don't read too much into that.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just picked the name Karen, not a Karen like on social media.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just her name's Karen, okay?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go with that, okay?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Karen starts by helping with hiring paperwork, and that makes sense.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's organized, she's careful with details.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then somebody asks her to explain a benefits issue.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And next she's updating the handbook.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's answering questions about PTO and time off and preparing documents for a difficult staff conversation.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And each of these requests sounds manageable.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Karen can use to take care of this, but together those requests become a substantial responsibility.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody ever pauses to ask Karen whether or not that responsibility is something that she feels comfortable with, if she knows how to handle it, or has room for it alongside of her original job, what she actually hired Karen to do.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: The work simply follows the person who reliably gets things done.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with having an administrator handling HR responsibilities.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: In a smaller church, those kind of combined roles are not just maybe practical, but necessary.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the question here is whether you've intentionally built that role and supported the person doing it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, are you just keeping piling on and asking Karen to do things that maybe Karen isn't comfortable with, or maybe Karen's never done before, or she doesn't know how to do it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are three things that I think are really worth looking at here.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna go over them real quick.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So get out of your pencil and paper.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you're driving.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it if you're driving.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: That would not be good.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Three things.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, first, separate administrative work from leadership decisions and specialized advice.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Scheduling interviews is different from deciding who gets hired.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So keeping records is different from interpreting a sensitive employment situation.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Preparing paperwork for a termination is different from taking responsibility for that decision and that conversation.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So those tasks may be connected, but they require different authority and different experience.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So watch what you're doing there.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your administrator needs to know which decisions they can make.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Karen, you can make this decision, which she shouldn't make.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Karen, don't make that decision that belongs to me.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And Karen needs to know when to bring in qualified outside help when she gets stuck or needs some outside help.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So use your best judgment, is something that we often say, that can be appropriate within a clear role, and it becomes a heavy burden when it means, hey, go figure out whatever the rest of us don't understand.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a lot of times what we do too.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And leaders need to stay present for the difficult parts.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can delegate preparation and coordination, but you still need to own those decisions that are yours to make.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't try and make Karen make those kind of decisions.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Those are your decisions as a leader.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's number one.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, match the role with the resources.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: If HR is now a meaningful part of someone's job, have that conversation directly.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do they want to develop more in that area?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something they enjoy?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: What training would help?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: What responsibilities should maybe move off their plate so they can do more with HR?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And does their compensation reflect the scope of the work that you're giving them?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: A noodle title may clarify the role, it may help, but it won't create capacity or any expertise, okay, by itself.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And buying software won't answer this every question either.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Software can help organize a process, but somebody still needs to understand how the process works and know when a situation requires more help.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: That support might come from an experienced HR professional who works with a few churches a few hours a month, or maybe another qualified outside resource, according to your situation.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: You don't necessarily need a full-time HR person.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I'm saying, especially if you're a smaller church.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it you don't even have HR in the title, but you do need to have a realistic plan for getting the work done well and not overwhelming anyway, anyone, okay?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's number two.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Number three, give staff a clear place to go when the usual route isn't appropriate.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine Karen reports to the executive pastor, and a staff member has a serious concern involving the executive pastor.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: What is she supposed to do with that?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: That shouldn't become a process that she has to invent in the moment.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Staff need to know where concerns go, who's going to respond to those concerns, and what happens if the concern involves their supervisor.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Karen needs those answers too if you're asking her to do some of those HR things.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Clarity protects Karen from becoming the unofficial counselor, investigator, and messenger for every difficult situation in the building.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what she signed up for.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a practical step this week, though.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sit down with the person who handles all that administrative stuff.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe her name isn't even Karen.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: But ask them to walk you through every staff-related responsibility that they carry.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And don't start by defending how things have ended up here.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Find out what the actual job that she is doing involves, and then identify who owns each responsibility, what support it requires, and what needs to change if anything needs to change.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Put dates beside those changes and schedule a follow-up.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So your administrator's competence is a tremendous asset.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Give that competence clear role, the appropriate support that she needs, and leadership that shares the responsibility.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that way the next time you say, hey, Karen handles that, Karen will be sure she knows that it's coming her way and that she actually knows how to handle it well.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: This could be a touchy subject in some churches.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of churches aren't big enough to have a dedicated HR person.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Either the staff person, maybe the executive pastor or the senior pastor handles all of those hiring details, and you need to have some administrative help.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's your Karen, but you need to scope that out so that Karen doesn't get surprised and get in over her head, and that you're just not dumping things on her as the situations arise.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, if there's any way I can help you talk through this, or maybe you've got a situation you're like, Todd, I'm stuck here.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what to do here.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to me, podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to have a conversation with you, see if there's any way that we can help.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Visit me over at chemistry staffing.com.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Also blog.chemistrystaffing.com, tons and tons of resources for you and your staff team, and hiring and firing and all kinds of staff-related health issues there at blog.chemistrystaffing.com.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's it for today.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's Friday if you're listening to this on the day it's released.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that you'll have a great weekend and join us right back here on Monday on the Healthy Church Death Podcast.